1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: Fellow ridiculous historians, Welcome to this week's classic episode NOL. 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: We were talking off air a little bit, and this 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: is one of my favorite ones. I went through an 4 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: obsessive phase with this. 5 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 2: With what the ass wang? It's ass wong? All right? 6 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 2: Is a nasty is way funny? 7 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, Miss Jackson, look at this one as a crossover 8 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 3: in a way. This is the kind of stuff we 9 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 3: talk about on our other podcast that we do with 10 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 3: our dear dear Palt Matt Frederick. Stuff they don't want 11 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 3: you to know. This is the story of how the 12 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 3: CIA used vampires, weaponized psychology strikes again as weapons of war. 13 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 3: Not like they had a stable of vampires that they 14 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 3: would like set free on their enemies, you know, who 15 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 3: would feast upon their blood, but just the idea of vampires, right. 16 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: The aswalm is a fascinating legendary creature monster and it's 17 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,639 Speaker 1: well established in the folklore of the Philippines. As we'll 18 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: see in this classic when the CIA needed to take 19 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: care of a group of communist rebels over in the Philippines, 20 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: they got super weird with it. They're really thinking outside 21 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 1: the box. 22 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 3: You are absolutely right, then, myth making at his finest, 23 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 3: you know, for the purposes of control fame as it ever. 24 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 2: Was, same as it ever was. 25 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the 26 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: show Ridiculous Historians. Thanks for tuning in. Do you remember 27 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: how earlier in in a previous episode, we had said 28 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: we would maybe do more ghost or monsters spooky stories 29 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: leading into Halloween. 30 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 2: Wow, yes, yes I do remember that. Then we're a 31 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 2: little early for Halloween. But you know what, we're so 32 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 2: chock full of monsters that were we just we just 33 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 2: got them spelling out of the sides. So we're gonna 34 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 2: start early with a story about something called the ass Wang. 35 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: Yes, excuse, you're right, You're right, I think either way, 36 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: you are correct. We were talking about a very specific 37 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: type of monster. And before we get to it, let's 38 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: introduce one of our favorite monsters, ladies and gentlemen, super 39 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: producer Casey Pegram Casey, are you okay that I referred 40 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: to you as a monsters that love it Casey on 41 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: the Case? So, growing up, were you into monsters? No? 42 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: I mean I'm clearly a monster of myself because I'm 43 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 2: meaning cheese. It's on their show, Unshoptable and Behavior borish. 44 00:02:55,880 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I hate myself now. Of course I love monsters. Yeah, yeah, 45 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 2: I was a little frightened of them. I thought they 46 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 2: lived under my bed and in my closet. Sure, do 47 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 2: you remember that movie The Willies Barely Well, that's a deep, 48 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 2: deep kuy. It has young Sean Aston in it, and 49 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 2: it's sort of an are You Afraid of the Dark 50 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 2: style campfire tale movie where a second anthology, and there 51 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 2: was one in particular where there was a really creepy, 52 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 2: uh gangly kind of pumpkinhead looking monster with long, skinny 53 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 2: fingers who menaced the children at a middle school, and 54 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 2: that stuck with me. 55 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: Man, Yeah, it's strange when you think of how profoundly 56 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: some of those things can impact us as children. I 57 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: was addicted to scary stories to tell in the dark. 58 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: Those covers alone are like nightmare fuel, pure nightmare fuel. 59 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: And the guy's a legit folklorest And one of the 60 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: things I loved about it was that it was different 61 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: from the usual fair of monstrosity that we see in 62 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: the US. I've also wondered, I don't know how much 63 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: the game's done in this, but I've also wondered and 64 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: marveled at the sheer variety of goblins ghouls, which is 65 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: monsters in other parts of the world, like just what 66 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: we would categorize as vampires. Just that category alone contains 67 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of creatures that many people have never 68 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: heard of, but in their countries of origin, these creatures 69 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 1: are taken very, very seriously. 70 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 2: And one of them is the asswhal. Yeah, the Asswong 71 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 2: is sort of a pantheon of monsters, right. It's sort 72 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 2: of like in Japanese culture, you've got the yokai, which 73 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 2: are just kind of a stand in for any kind 74 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 2: of goblin or magical creature or whatever. And here's the thing. 75 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 2: I wanted to pose this to you before we get 76 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: too much further. Sure, we're talking about our childhood obsession 77 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 2: and fear and you know PTSD associated with monsters, but 78 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: as a thirty five year old man and Ben, I'm 79 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 2: not gonna I'm not gonna spill your age. You're ageless, 80 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 2: but I don't think monsters are real anymore. That is 81 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 2: not something that keeps me up at night. It's just 82 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 2: normal baseline anxiety that keeps me up at night. Now, 83 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 2: that's my monster, yeah, but in other countries that's not 84 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 2: quite the case. 85 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: That's absolutely true. Hey, can I have some cheese its? 86 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: Do you have any thanks? Can you guys tell we're 87 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,559 Speaker 1: recorded on a Friday afternoon, thanks man. 88 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's absolutely true. 89 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: These are taken seriously, and the ass wong is just 90 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: one example. You'll hear other names for it too, like 91 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 1: the tick tick or the clean clean or the osawong. 92 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 2: But I think you're right. 93 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: Our fears tend to evolve with us, you know what 94 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: I mean, Our monsters grow up with us. That sounds 95 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: way more cryptic than I intended. And in the Philippines, 96 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: where the asswong originates, they have often been taken very 97 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: seriously as like a legitimate, credible physical threat to you 98 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: and your loved ones. 99 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those things where you probably if 100 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 2: you grew up in the Philippiness tasty innet but got 101 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 2: a good crunch, good trying to do it off the mic, goodbite. Yeah, 102 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 2: that's probably good etiquette. But yeah, I mean, you know, 103 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 2: if you grew up in the Philippines, or you know 104 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 2: somebody that grew up in the Philippines, chances are you've 105 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 2: met somebody that whether they themselves or someone they know, 106 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 2: or possibly their grandpa or something, or you know, a 107 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 2: loved one will have claimed with full belief to have 108 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 2: either encountered one of these creatures, possibly been attacked by 109 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 2: one of them, or even maybe know someone who met 110 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 2: their untimely end at the hands or claws or fangs 111 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 2: or you knowes dripping intestines. Yeah, can we go through 112 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 2: some of let's do this get yeah? Okay? 113 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: So, as we mentioned, a swong is kind of an 114 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: umbrella to her, and in different regions of the Philippines 115 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: you will hear different descriptions of what anaswog actually is. 116 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:51,679 Speaker 1: And despite its different variations, it is probably the most 117 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: frightening mythical creature in this type of folklore. So one 118 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: thing that's always kind of the common thread is that 119 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: their shapes shit, they can somehow change shape. The big 120 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: difference is arrive when we ask what shapes they change into. 121 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: So we mentioned that they can have long claws. Do 122 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: we mention the torso thing yet you. 123 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 2: Alluded to it, Ben, But give us give us the 124 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 2: quick and dirty. 125 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: So there's the appearance of a person. It's just a 126 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: torso arms in the head and they're flying, they levitate, 127 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: and they're intestines dripped down under them. 128 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 2: Just kind of dragging like a train, you know, and. 129 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: They eat unborn children and toddlers. Usually they want to 130 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: eat the livers and the hearts. 131 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's even one that I think has some 132 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: sort of specially adapted tongue that they can use to 133 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,559 Speaker 2: suck out the fetus from a pregnant woman. 134 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, like a like a very evil mosquito, exactly. Yes, 135 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: So they're sometimes described as very very thin, they're always 136 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: described as kind of fast, and some of them make 137 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: different noises, right, that's going to be importantly. 138 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. There's some that look like pigs who 139 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 2: make obviously pig type noises, snorting and you know, grinding 140 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 2: their teeth, and and they're also quite large. Then they're 141 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 2: also like werewolf type oswong that are you about like 142 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 2: you would think some of them look more like a 143 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 2: regular dog. Some of them look like maybe like a 144 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 2: hyena or a jackal of something like that, or just 145 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 2: some kind of any kind of like wild kind of 146 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 2: rabid beasts. But then you have the scariest of all 147 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 2: that there's a great connection between this and the way 148 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 2: we look at these kind of creatures vampires. You've got 149 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 2: the ones that look mainly like you. 150 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: Or I, but they are still out for blood, livers 151 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: and hearts, right, because they they can shift into a 152 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 1: human form and then shift I guess into their more 153 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: monstrous forms, as legend would have it. As legend would 154 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: have it, Yes, very important, very important. They also have 155 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: these weird, these techniques that are so fascinating since if 156 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: you read on mythology dot net just a quick overview 157 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:08,839 Speaker 1: of Aswog there, it's apparently common for Aswong to turn 158 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: plants into doppelgangers of their victims to hide evidence of 159 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: their hunting from locals. That's pretty cool, man, I mean, 160 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: that's a pretty I mean it's a dark power, but 161 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: it's pretty neat power, right. And so they do it 162 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: in two ways. They might make a doppelganger of a 163 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: corpse so it looks like the person died without an 164 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: Aswog attack. Or they might make a doppelganger of a 165 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: living person. When they make one of a living person 166 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 1: a living victim, then the doppelganger goes to that person's home, 167 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: they fall ill, and they die. Why are we telling 168 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 1: you all of this, Well, we're telling you this because 169 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: this story comes into play in a very strange and 170 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: ingenious way. Shortly after World War Two, the Philippine Army 171 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: is fighting an insurgency led by communist rebels known as 172 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: the hook balahp In. Pardon my pronunciation, I am not 173 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: a Tagolic speaker. 174 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 2: Well, you're not going to try the alternate pronunciation for 175 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 2: when they sort of shifted their purposes. That one's even harder. 176 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 2: It's got like an ng there said, he pronounced that 177 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 2: ng on its own. 178 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: So this, this army is having the age old series 179 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: of problems that organized armies have when they run into 180 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: gorilla forces. 181 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 2: Right there. 182 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 1: They're fighting an enemy that is often invisible, able to 183 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: blend in with the local non fighting population, you know 184 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: what I mean. And they're like, how do we how 185 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: do we combat this? We need a method of our own. 186 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: We need something we could do that will squash this rebellion, 187 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: and it may need to be an unconventional method because 188 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: this also just for the background here, these who are 189 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 1: also called hucks Huk, they're fighting against the status quo, 190 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: the wealthy Filipinos who had collaborated with Japanese invaders. 191 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 2: Right because originally they were part of the team. Right 192 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 2: during World War two, when the Philippines were leaked up 193 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 2: with the US fighting against the Japanese. This group was 194 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 2: fighting the good fight, right and then after the end 195 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 2: of the war they started they kind of became installed 196 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 2: as the de facto militia or military of the communist government. 197 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 1: Right right right, because it's you can see how they 198 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: feel very short changed in this at this position because 199 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: the collaborators with the Japanese have grabbed a ton of 200 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: land afterwards, and they own a bunch of resources, and 201 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: the inequality of the country, which was already very extreme, 202 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: is just going to continue as though nothing has changed. 203 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: So of course they want a rebellion. Of course they 204 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: want a different government. 205 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 2: And just to try my hand at butchering and pronunciation, 206 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 2: they did change the name after this switcheroo happened to 207 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 2: huckbo in Baion Lebon Sa Hopon that was also known 208 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 2: as the anti Japanese Army. 209 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: That was pretty good, man, I thought that was pretty good. 210 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 2: But not only were they against the Japanese army, they 211 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 2: ultimately ended up becoming against the Filipino government because they 212 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 2: believe that the President Manuel Roxis was a sympathizer with 213 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 2: or a collaborator I guess with what the Japanese I'm 214 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 2: confused about that. 215 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, that he was collaborating with them to enrich himself 216 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: and then also, you know, in his capitalism, So that's 217 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: obviously not gonna fly with these guys. But there's another 218 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: another player enters. 219 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 2: The game, Yeah, the big one, because let's we forget 220 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 2: the US is involved and has an interest here, and 221 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 2: they want to get those those huckbo's literally running for 222 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 2: the hills. So inter Air Force Brigadier General Edward G. 223 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 2: I read this originally, and I thought it said Landslide, 224 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 2: which would have been an awesome last name for in general, 225 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: but unfortunately it is Lansdale. And he is a huge 226 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 2: proponent of a little something called SIOPS. Ben bless us 227 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 2: with your military history acumen. What's siops? Think? 228 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: Everybody knows? Psychological operations also known as psychological warfare. This 229 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: includes everything from propaganda given to soldiers over the radio 230 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: to things like ghost armies that we've mentioned before. 231 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, like in Vietnam, the US military used the sounds 232 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 2: recorded sounds of like wailing damned ancestors of the Vietcong 233 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 2: and it works. So I would say SIOPS is sort 234 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 2: of the art of freaking out your enemy. 235 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I think that's a good way to describe. 236 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: It's intimidation. And Lansdale is very, very familiar with this. 237 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: There's a great book by an author named Max Boot 238 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: called The Road Not Taken Edward Lansdale in the American 239 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:04,319 Speaker 1: Track in Vietnam, which touches on some of Lansdale's activities. 240 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: Lensdale is no stranger to siops. He's he's a huge 241 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: fan of psychological warfare, and he has he has chops, 242 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: he has some uh, he has some things on his 243 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: resume that are unethical but impressive. He orchestrates a campaign 244 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: in Vietnam that makes nearly a million refugees flee the 245 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: country because he hired a soothsayer to predict good fortune 246 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: for South Vietnam and bad luck for the North. 247 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 2: Wow. 248 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: Okay, so not firing a shot, just getting into people's heads. 249 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know. It reminds me of there's anpisode 250 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 2: of Money Python where it's like the most dangerous joke 251 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 2: in the world and they use it against their enemies 252 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: and only every like major commander can only hold like 253 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 2: one word of the joke at a time, because if 254 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 2: they themselves read it in one go, they would be 255 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 2: stricken mad or whatever. So they hold it up for 256 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 2: the enemy to see, and you see, it takes some 257 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 2: kind of a minute have to recognize what it is, 258 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 2: and then they all just laugh themselves to death. Uh, 259 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 2: you know, obviously kind of a silly satirical version, but 260 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 2: sort of describing this phenomenon that we're talking about here 261 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 2: using people's thoughts and attitudes and preconceived ideas against them. 262 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: Yes, and we have a quote from Lansdale himself at 263 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: something called the Asswongproject dot com siwar in the Philippines, 264 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: Asswong and the CIA. So this is before his Vietnam stuff, 265 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: by the way. So Lansdale says, a combat sy war 266 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: squad was brought in to the Philippines. It planted stories 267 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: among town residents of an Asswong living on the hills 268 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: where the Hucks were based. So they spread these They 269 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: spread these rumors, and then two nights later, after giving 270 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: the stories time to sort of percolate up to the Hucks, 271 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: the ambushers silently snatched the last man of a patrol 272 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: and they killed him. They punctured his neck with two 273 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: holes as if a vampire bit him, and they hung 274 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: his body up by the heels to exsanguinate him, to 275 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: drain them of all blood. And then they took the 276 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: corpse and they dragged it back to the trail where 277 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: the guy would have disappeared, and he just plopped his 278 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: body out there. So what happened next, Well, they like 279 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: littered these corpses, you know, all around the area. And 280 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: it did not go over well with the with the 281 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: invading forces right or the you know, attempting to overthrow 282 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: forces right right, the communist rebel groups they returned, they 283 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: were trying to look for their comrade. And can you 284 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: imagine how frightening that is? Like, that's the thing. It 285 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: may sound silly for people to be frightened of a 286 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: mythological monster, right, but imagine you work with someone, like 287 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: think of all your coworkers. You work with someone, You 288 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: go out to a party with them, they disappear, You 289 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: come back the next day and you find them with 290 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: bipe marks and no blood. That's frightening. I might fall 291 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: for that. I don't know, what do you think, nol. 292 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,239 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, tensions are already running high in 293 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 2: this in this situation of this like guerrilla warfare. Yeah, 294 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 2: here's the here's the kicker though. This was syops on 295 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 2: the surface, but syops typically doesn't involve war crimes because 296 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 2: you're not supposed to. You know, they're capturing these people 297 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 2: and then they're basically torturing and murdering them. Yeah, you know, 298 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,479 Speaker 2: they're They're not like putting them in pow camps. They 299 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 2: are using them, using their flesh and blood as some 300 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 2: kind of crazy horror show to freak out their comrades. 301 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,959 Speaker 1: And that brings us to an interesting question here because 302 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: you know, it's this event is not something that happened 303 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: across the Philippines for you know, years and years. It 304 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 1: was this single operation. But they may not have been 305 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: actually scared of NEAs Swung at all. They may have 306 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: just been scared of getting kidnapped and used as you know, 307 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: psychological torture for their compatriots. And a HOK squadron at 308 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: this time was about one hundred to three hundred soldiers, 309 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: and we don't know whether they were actually scared of 310 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: of a fictional creature or whether they were scared of 311 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: the very real and very ruthless as you mentioned Cia, right, Yeah. 312 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 2: He had another trick that he liked to use. Lansdale 313 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 2: called the eye of God. And this is much similar 314 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 2: to the ghost tape kind of stuff we will hear 315 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 2: about in Vietnam, where they basically I don't know if 316 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 2: they used a spooky voice over the loudspeakers, but they 317 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 2: were like calling out the names of prominent huck you know, 318 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 2: the commanders and threatening them with certain death and yeah, 319 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 2: I mean, can't you picture it being kind of scooby 320 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 2: doode out like that. Oh, get to the best part though, 321 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, So adding insult to injury, they would 322 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 2: also creep into their camp and paint these spooky eyes 323 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,400 Speaker 2: on the tent or wherever the people were sleeping the house. 324 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 2: I guess they had little huts. This is like they 325 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 2: were in their villages, I guess. 326 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: For some reason, that seems even creepier to me, to 327 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: even creepier than hearing a weird noise, waking up and 328 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 1: finding this non consensual artwork, you know what I mean. 329 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 2: But this didn't like, you know, clear the Hucks out 330 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 2: overnight or anything. I mean it you know, took about 331 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,719 Speaker 2: four years before Lewis Tarouk, who had been the leader 332 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 2: of this organization for quite some time, actually surrendered and 333 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 2: accepted a prison sentence. So you know. I mean, it's 334 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 2: really interesting to read about this stuff, and it's certainly 335 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 2: a fascinating type of warfare. That author you mentioned earlier, 336 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 2: Max Boot the story says that this tactic was actually 337 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 2: considered a war crime because they were killing these Filipino 338 00:19:55,200 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 2: soldiers deliberately instead of you know, capturing them as enemy combatants. 339 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 2: And then of course they were mutilating their corpses too, 340 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 2: so not a good look, but I guess effective. 341 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: I don't know, what do you think, mat Yeah, I mean, 342 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: definitely not a good look, but certainly effective. And the CIA, 343 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: so we clarify here, the CIA is telling the Filipino 344 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: soldiers in the army to attack the communist rebels and 345 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: use these tactics, and they do work. I mean, by 346 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: the fifties, I think, as we mentioned, the Hucks are 347 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: in serious decline and Lansdale will go on to do 348 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: more of this sort of stuff, especially in Vietnam. As 349 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: we mentioned before, the type of techniques he applied were 350 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 1: also sometimes called black combat. He also did another psy op. 351 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 1: We should mention he would have different messages broadcast. Noel, 352 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: you had mentioned earlier, the messages warning rebel leaders and 353 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 1: so on, but they would also fly planes very low 354 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: overhead and broadcast messages to make the rebels believe spies 355 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: were in their midst and they couldn't trust one another. 356 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: So eventually, nineteen fifty four, the rebels surrender, and there's 357 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: no argument about it. These tactics were very useful to 358 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: Lansdale and to the army of the Philippines. The question 359 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: that we have to ask ourselves is at what price victory? 360 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 2: You know what I mean? 361 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: It's not right to desecrate corpses. 362 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 2: No, no, it's definitely not. And you know, I think 363 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 2: our boy Lansdale would go on to use slightly less 364 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 2: brutal techniques later in his career, but I guess this 365 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 2: was just kind of a different time. 366 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: He's also for anybody who wants a little bit of 367 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: a lost treasure story. He also shows up in the 368 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: old legend of Yamashita's Go, which is this horde of 369 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 1: treasure that was stolen by the Japanese forces during World 370 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: War Two and hidden somewhere in the Philippines, And according 371 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: to the story, it's still there and you can go 372 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: search for it yourself, as many other treasure hunters have 373 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 1: tried over the past few decades. We should mention the 374 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: existence of this treasure is largely not taken seriously by 375 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: a lot of experts, but of course, who doesn't want 376 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: to find it. You can read more about that by 377 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: checking out work of the author's sterling Seagrave, who claims 378 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 1: the gold was secretly seized by the US government after 379 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: the location was discovered by interrogating and torturing Yamashita's driver, 380 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: a major Kojima Kashi. And then here's where Lansdale comes in. 381 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: Apparently he supervised the torture fun allegedly. 382 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, he's a hardened mofo. Sure. I mean if 383 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 2: he's hanging up dudes by their toes and stabbing him 384 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 2: in the side of the neck and draining their blood 385 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 2: and for the purposes of spooking some enemy combatants, and 386 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 2: then this guy could probably do just about anything. How many. 387 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: I guess folkloric believes or mythological monsters do you think 388 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,439 Speaker 1: people honestly believe in in twenty eighteen, because I've heard 389 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: in Iceland that people still believe in uh, fairies or no, sure, 390 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: trolls maybe? Yeah, maybe trolls. Yeah, I don't know. 391 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 2: I don't know, man, Like I I want to believe. 392 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 2: You're very molder about that. Uh yeah, No, I'm just 393 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 2: moldy and sad and beaten down by life. Ben. But no, man, 394 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 2: I don't know who are we to say? 395 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: Who are we to say that's that's a good question. 396 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: And you know what that makes me think of? You know, 397 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: the people who are to say, oh, that was awkward. 398 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 1: Let's do some listener mail. 399 00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 2: Do it well? Dominic Allen has this to say, Hello, Jents, 400 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 2: just listen to your episode on the naming of California, 401 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 2: and you asked us to tell you if we ever 402 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 2: have seen a griffin, I have seen part of one. 403 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 2: Would rather own part of one. Maybe this ties in 404 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 2: beautifully with today's episode two. He's asked a question, what 405 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 2: mythological creatures do you believe in? Dominic says he owns one. 406 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 2: I shouldn't dilly dally and explain myself. In the thirteen hundreds, 407 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 2: there was a man called John manvel Or was there 408 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 2: who wrote a book called the Travels of Sir John 409 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 2: manvel Or did he? In this travel book, he visits 410 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 2: Asia and talks about the weird and wonderful people and 411 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 2: creatures that live there, one of them being a griffiin 412 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 2: this is also one of the more boring creatures he 413 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 2: talks about. He states that griffins are from a country 414 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 2: called Bakaria and had talons so long this is a quote, 415 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 2: so long and so large, on great upon his feet, 416 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 2: as though they were horns of great oxen, or of bugles, 417 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 2: or of kine, so that men make cups of them 418 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 2: to drink of. So what I meant was I have 419 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 2: a drinking horn which is made from the supposed claw 420 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 2: of a griffin. I interjected with that supposed at least 421 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 2: that's what I tell people. I'm part of a fourteenth 422 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 2: century living history group in England and it is a 423 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 2: great conversation piece, as drinking horns weren't as popular in 424 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 2: that time, but a griffin claw is a fascinating thing. 425 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 2: The travels of Sir John Manvil could be a good 426 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 2: podcast topic. I agree the people in the book are 427 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 2: pretty ridiculous. Thanks for the podcast, look forward to more 428 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 2: as they come. Always be ridiculous. Not going to be 429 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 2: a problem, Dominic, No, we literally are contractually obligated kid 430 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 2: doing this show, like we get in trouble if we don't. 431 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: But also that's so amazing. This really inspires me to 432 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: ask more questions on the show. Dominic. Thank you for 433 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: also bonus points. If you can send us a picture, man, 434 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we'd love that. And I assume that you're 435 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: not doing the fourteenth century living history thing all the time, 436 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 1: just because you did send us an email. This arrived 437 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: via email, not via pigeon or parchment or a pigeon 438 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: carrying parchment, But that's awesome. I would love to see 439 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 1: a picture of this drinking horn. And I'm completely on 440 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: board with the travels of Sir Manville. Our next listener 441 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: mail is one that uh, I think both of us 442 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: are really gonna dig. It is from Darren T and 443 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: it's titled hangus the Monkey. Hi, says Darren. I listened 444 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: from the start, but it's my first time writing. I've 445 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: just heard your recent podcast on the Heartlepool Monkey. I 446 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: live in Thornaby on Teas, ten miles up the road 447 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: from Hartlepool, Heartlepool. He notes his tea side, not Tyne side, 448 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 1: and he goes on to say I was taught about 449 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,199 Speaker 1: this as a lesson on propaganda and racism in primary school, 450 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: showing how people with nothing to go on but propaganda 451 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: about how all Frenchmen are short, wild and hairy can 452 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 1: lead to this stuff. Whether this is a true story 453 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: or not, it works as a great teaching tool, although 454 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: I personally don't believe it is true. I think it 455 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: was just an excuse for mocking nickname for people from 456 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: the area. 457 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 2: Here's the part. 458 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,959 Speaker 1: You're like nol like Mackhams, which are people from Sunderland, 459 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: and Smoggies, which are people from Middlesbrough. But it's a 460 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: bit of fun. Thanks for the hours of entertainment, Darren. Ps. 461 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: You pronounced all the time side towns and cities correctly. 462 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: Thank you, Casey. Can we get a Hallelujah clip? Perfect? 463 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 1: So I gotta say, Darren, thank you for writing. I 464 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: am loving these very specific derogatory nicknames. Mackhams, Smoggies. Does 465 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: every town in England have one of these? We don't 466 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: have anything like that for Atlanta. I guess people just 467 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 1: say redneck, right it's true. Well, maybe if you're listening 468 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: you can suggest a cool mocking nickname for people from Atlanta. 469 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 2: I will say this about that episode. I do think 470 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 2: we kind of glossed over the fact that this was 471 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 2: an interesting teachable moment about racism and othering and this 472 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 2: idea that this monkey supposedly was, you know, immediately identified 473 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 2: as being a Frenchman, and that was how Frenchmen were 474 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 2: depicted in these political cartoons of the time. So you know, 475 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 2: I think there's a something to be said about that. 476 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 2: And I don't know if we mentioned this in the 477 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 2: episode either, but there is actually a play about the 478 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 2: Harleypool Monkey. I thought we did. I think we did, 479 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,399 Speaker 2: but if we didn't describe it, it's so cool to 480 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 2: look at because it's this really amazing puppetry. I don't 481 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 2: know if you're familiar with the play Warhorse, that's got 482 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 2: this amazing, like multi layered puppetry sculpture kind of stuff, 483 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 2: and that's what the Harleypool Monkey play is about. And 484 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 2: it does kind of take a little liberty and talk 485 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 2: more about that, like the way we treat immigrants and 486 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 2: things like that. So it's a there's kind of a 487 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 2: twofold story there. 488 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: And thank you again to Dominic and Darren for writing in. 489 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: Thank you fellow ridiculous historians for giving us a list 490 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: in to day. While we're thanking people, let's go ahead 491 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: and thank our super producer, Casey Pegram. 492 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 2: Thanks also to our research associates Eves Jeff Cod who 493 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 2: helped us out with this one, and also Christopher Hasiotis 494 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 2: who continues to be a mensch and we love him dearly. 495 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,239 Speaker 2: I think we might actually have him on. We might 496 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 2: have him on for an episode. Yes, Yes, he's coming back. 497 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 2: It's two. We're over overdue. Thanks to Alex Williams who 498 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 2: composed our theme. 499 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: And thanks to thanks to Jonathan Strickland ak the Quizzor 500 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: for not showing up on this episode. 501 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 2: I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of him. 502 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: I hear that laugh in the distance and I don't 503 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: think it's Casey piping it through the headphones. 504 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 2: It haunts me at night man. 505 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: Yes, and speaking of haunting, we want to hear some 506 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: of your favorite ridiculous historical events involving the supernatural or 507 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: allegations thereof. You can tell us about these on Instagram, Facebook, 508 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: and Twitter, and we particularly like to give a shout 509 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: out to our Ridiculous Historians Facebook page. It's one of 510 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: the classies joints on the Internet. 511 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. And in one last little plug, Ben and I 512 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 2: recently appeared on a three part episode of Behind the Bastards, 513 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 2: which is a really, really amazing show out of our 514 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 2: La Wing hosted by Robert Evans, who is just a 515 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 2: cracker jack writer and researcher. And he was kind enough 516 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 2: slash sadistic enough to have you and I on for 517 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 2: a four hour podcast marathon about the infamous Alex Jones. 518 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a it's a great listen. Robert's a great guy. 519 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: It is not for children. Now, there is strong language. 520 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want to hear me and Ben Effan 521 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 2: and Jeffin, that's the place to do it. 522 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: And mature themes. But that was a good shot. Yeah, 523 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: and follow behind the bastards. If you like us, you're 524 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: gonna really dig that show. 525 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 2: It's true and all three parts of that trifecta are out. Now. 526 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: It's a lot. It's a real commitment. It's a road trip. 527 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: But yeah, that's that's it. 528 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 3: Man. 529 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: Let's uh, let's try to continue our habit of not 530 00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: desecrating corpses to win wars. 531 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, not digging up pope corpses to make points. I 532 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 2: don't know. All right, Well, happy Halloween, y'all. Yeah, not 533 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 2: even it's Halloween all year. Send us Jesus. For more 534 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcasts, or 535 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.