WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Washington's Eagle 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:04.920 Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by crushing global debt. Instead, 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:07.760 it's brought to you by the United States of Absurdity, 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:10.280 which is a new book that's just out from Penguin Books. 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:13.040 It's written by the guys who do The Dollar Podcast, 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:15.520 and it's about those strange, weird little episodes in American 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:18.880 history that you've never heard of, things like the Kentucky 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.960 meat Shower of eighteen seventy six or the straw hat 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:24.920 riots of the early nineteen hundreds. And this really happened. 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:27.520 There truly were people here in America who were not 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.400 okay with other people wearing straw hats and so well, 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.360 they were willing to fight about it. 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Gypsy wind up murdering 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:17.120 d d It's a it's a crazy story. Through this documentary, 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.320 you can get a firsthand look at this very strange 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:23.080 case and it looks at one of psychologies more odd conditions, 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:26.360 much Housen by proxy syndrome. So the documentary is called 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:29.319 Mommy Dead and Dearest. Premiers Monday, May fifteen at ten 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:31.280 pm on HBO. And I'm sure they're going to do 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:46.440 reruns to Thinking Sideways. I'll brought there what I don't know, 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:52.600 stories of things we simply don't know the answer too. Well. 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:56.280 Hey there, and welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. 0:01:56.320 --> 0:02:01.320 I am Steve as usual, joined by Joe. All right, 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:06.600 I thought Joe was going at their honey. Sorry. Well, 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:09.720 this week we have yet another mystery to talk about, 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:13.000 as we do every week, and this week we are 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:18.160 going to cover a ornithological mystery. It's a bird mystery, 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:24.839 a mystery most foul. Yeah, it's gonna happen. Happen, can't help. 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.000 They're gonna be good. Let's got the funds out of 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:29.639 the way. Now, I don't really have any What we're 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.560 gonna talk about is we're gonna talk about Washington's eagle. 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.880 But wait, Steve, what did anybody suggest this story? Why? Indeed, Joe, 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:43.000 they did. This is well scripted dialogue for having right now. Yep, 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:45.880 this was suggested. This was suggested by Nick quite a 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.560 while back. I've actually been looking into this one on 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.079 and off for the last gosh two years now. So 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:53.720 thanks to Nick for sending in the suggestion, and also 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:56.920 a couple of thanks. I want to thank both Alyssa 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:00.120 and Alec. They were experts that I consulted with for 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:03.760 this episode. And then, though she probably doesn't listen, phoebe 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.359 over at the Rare book room at the Multlama County 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:10.760 Library because she helped me out a bunch took. Thanks 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:14.640 and Alec. Yeah, so let's tell you what the mystery 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:16.799 is in the briefest, and then we'll start diving into 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:21.320 the details. The mystery itself is that in eighteen thirty 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:27.720 six John James Audubon, Yes, that Audubon recorded a large 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:33.280 sea eagle, which he named Falco Washingtony bird of Washington 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:36.360 is what that's is in his book The Birds of America. 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:40.560 The problem is that no one has seen that bird since, 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:46.040 and other than Audubon's paintings and a few other people's accounts, 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:50.640 there's no real physical evidence of this bird ever having existed. Yeah, 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:53.720 it's weird, and he only painted it once. Right on 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:58.760 painting of it. He has one painting from one specimen 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:03.640 that he had. He's cited it multiple times, but he 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:05.600 only did the one. But we're going to talk about 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:08.680 the Birds of America and he and there he typically 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:12.240 only did each bird one time, so it's not surprising 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:15.160 that there's only one agreed. Okay, So let's back up 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.000 the beginning where the order of events are gonna go 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.120 here tonight is we're gonna talk about Audubon. We'll talk 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.279 about his book The Birds of America, and finally eagles 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:25.240 in general, and then the Washington eagle. That way, it 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:28.080 kind of all makes sense. Okay. I know I'm weird 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:32.160 that way to start with Audubon. Excuse me. I've been 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:36.480 to the Audubon Society, and I consider myself an expert. Okay, 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:40.400 not really, what is that? Me? Go ahead. I was 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.560 just with autom On Society like two weeks ago. Yeah, 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:48.080 I have old Audubon books at my house. We're all experts. 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:52.599 Birds outside. Can we keep going? Okay, thank you. In 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:56.840 five Audubon was born, though at that time his name 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.520 was genre Beane, and he was born in the French 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:03.080 colony of I really hope I get this right. Let's Kas, 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:07.279 which is in modern day Haiti. The French were everywhere, 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:09.279 just like the English and the Spanish, and it was 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.800 one of their colonies. Of course, Audubon was one of 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:17.400 many children that his father, Jean Audubon, had sired. It 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:19.919 just happened to be that his mother was one of 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:24.359 John's mistresses, which technically makes him a bastard, which is 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.479 only important much later on in our story in terms 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:30.599 of something to prove. But the short version of his 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:34.719 life is that he moved from Haiti to France to 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:39.440 live with his father and his father's wife, and then 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:43.560 eventually he left France and he moved to the United 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:49.919 States in order to avoid serving in the Napoleonic Wars. 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:53.200 And when he got to the US, he changed his 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:58.960 name from genrebine to John James Audubon so that it 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.000 didn't sound so freend and shoot, because there was a 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:04.400 little bit of an anti French sentiment at the time. 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:09.119 There was. Yeah, So after moving here in eighteen oh three, 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:13.680 Audubon tries his hand at several different occupations and businesses, 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:17.880 as as many men of the era, semiwealthy young men 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:20.719 of the time. Did I believe we called that a 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.039 renaissance man. That might be one of the words that 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.279 you could want phrases. It kind of depends, you know, 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:29.160 I mean, if they're like you know, usually it's more 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:32.520 like just odd jobs. Well, yeah, a lot of different occupations. 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.040 He failed that. A lot of occupations is a great 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:37.760 way to say it, because that's what it was. Through 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:40.320 most of his life. Audubon was a lover of nature, 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:42.520 and he spent a great deal of time walking around 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:46.960 and studying what he saw and it and occasionally shooting 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.080 it um and he said his preference was for birds 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:53.760 above all. Else Where he had always drawn what he 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.080 saw in nature, and he continued to do that when 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.320 he got to the States, though at that time it 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:01.640 was a hobby. It wasn't as if it was an occupation. 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:03.840 For him though, you know, like some a lot of 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:06.800 people do with their hobbies, he traveled to see different 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.600 birds in different parts of the country, so it was, 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:13.480 you know, it was really involved hobby. He likes his birds, 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:18.240 he did. Audubon was a skilled artist. He initially did 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:22.040 a lot of his work with charcoals and pencils. He 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:26.600 did later learn to paint, which was how we get 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:28.760 a lot of the images that are in the Birds 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:32.680 of America. They were paintings originally, we should should we 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:36.800 specify that The Birds of America is a book paintings 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:41.440 of yes and a field guide that's further in. Okay, Sorry, 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:42.880 you've just referred to it a couple of times when 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:46.040 I realized, no, it's okay. The brief version is John 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:51.400 James Audubon. He makes a giant folio book which is 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.040 called The Birds of America, which is a catalog of 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:58.160 paintings of birds that he did in this country. It's 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.040 also got some other associal a text with it that 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:04.080 he did later on. The one that I saw that was, 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:06.880 I'm guessing at least a hundred years old, was a 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:12.200 five volume set of just writings and no images. A lot. 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:14.920 But if you have a copy of Birds of America 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:18.240 laying around. Uh, please send it to us. I'll give 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:19.920 you the post office box. At the end of the episode, 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.000 we'll take it off your hands. Yeah, it would totally 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.480 do that for you. We're givers like that. Yeah, because 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:29.480 those things are worth like what nothing. Yeah, that's that's 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:34.360 why they should send them to us. Okay, that's all right, No, 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:38.240 so um so he's he's doing his art. He also 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:43.240 eventually he learns taxidermy, which is really important for him 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:47.560 because it's the early eighteen hundreds and the only way 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:49.959 that you can get an animal that you can paint 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:54.640 or draw or study is by killing it, by shooting it. 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:57.360 It's not the conservation era like it is today. And 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:01.080 I know that that sounds very contrary to the Audubon 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:04.760 Society that most people know today, But again, this was 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.000 the early eighteen hundreds, completely different critter in the Audubon 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:12.200 society wasn't something that started until I think nineteen o five. Yeah, 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.800 but I don't think too many people don't know that 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.079 that Audubon was an avid bird shooter. He loved to 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:21.040 shoot birds, that's what he did. That's how he got 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:23.000 his specimens. Well, it wasn't just say, even if it 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:25.600 wasn't for specimens six, he really liked to shoot birds. 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:28.880 And if you look at at the birds and in 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:30.920 the Birds of America, you'll see that every one of 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:35.640 them has a bullet hole in it. Now you're just 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:44.160 making okay, number two being for Devon. Okay, So back 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:46.880 to Audubon. So he goes on. He goes about living 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:52.880 his life and painting birds, and then in eighteen twenty 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:56.800 he started doing the paintings for what he would eventually 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:00.200 call The Birds of America. It was you know, he 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:02.640 wasn't a rich guy, so he couldn't just fund this 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:04.920 project himself. So he had to get investors. But he 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:08.440 couldn't find any investors in the States. So what he 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:12.000 does instead is, after he exhausts the investors in the 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:15.160 States and they won't give him any cash, he goes 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:17.920 to Europe. He winds and dines a few people and 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:20.880 they agreed to invest in the book. The book is 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:24.960 published not as a single volume, but instead it is 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.480 done and under a subscription basis, and it is the 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.280 images and all of the stuff that's associated with it 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:37.240 comes out between eighteen twenty seven and eighteen thirty eight. Well, 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:39.679 it was a great way to fund it because you 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:43.280 know it's expensive. Because here's the thing about the Birds 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:46.760 of America. I am not exaggerated when I say it 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:51.400 is a huge book. It is gigantic. So here's the 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:56.080 dimensions on the images themselves. They're thirty nine by twenty 0:10:56.120 --> 0:11:01.240 six inches, which in metric is ninety nine by six centimeters. 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.840 That's a big page. And I mean you could literally 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:11.240 use it for a coffee table. You could. Um, God, 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:14.760 what is the term. It wasn't the it wasn't the elephant. 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.080 It was something like the double pack of Derm edition 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:18.959 or something like that is what they called it. Because 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:21.680 it was so big it was it was real. I 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:24.040 saw that. I was like, why oh, because it's such 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:28.280 a huge stinking book. Um. Now, the great thing about 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:32.720 doing something that size is it allowed Audubon to present 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.679 the birds that he was painting at true scale, it 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.800 life size scale, so little songbirds were at their normal size. 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:45.880 Something like the Washington's eagle was actually at scale or 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:49.240 dang near scale, because he had so much room for it. Actually, 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:51.560 even even that I looked that big, I think the 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:53.880 Washington's ego might have been just a hair tooo big. 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:58.600 I think I just realized. Actually Washington Eagle was a 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:01.520 bad example, but there are quite a few birds. Almost 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.079 all of them are at scale because he used a 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.360 grid system for his his paintings and then a grid 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:09.319 in front of what he was painting to keep everything 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:12.600 scale proportionately. So he was trying to do it as 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.960 accurately as possible, which is great. Yea. When the book 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:20.160 was done, it had it used four hundred and thirty 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.080 five plates, which for anybody who doesn't know how the 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:26.160 printing process works, to use a plate to press the 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:28.800 black ink into the page. And so there was four 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:32.040 hundred and thirty five individual images and once they were 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:35.200 printed in black and white, then they were hand water colored. 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.480 So that was how all of those were done, which 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:40.520 is part of the reason it took so long. Were 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:45.160 so damned expensive. Yeah, So that's that's what the Birds 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.360 of America, the book itself, that's a little bit of 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.000 the history on it and what Audubon was doing. He 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:54.680 said that his intention was to literally catalog every bird 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:58.199 in this nation if he could, and I mean it's 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:00.240 eleven years, that's a lot of time and trying elevel 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:06.520 in painting and hunting, literally hunting four specimens. Moving forward, 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:10.080 that then brings us to the time that he showed 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:14.760 the world Washington's eagle. Audubon said he observed the bird 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.640 total of five times in nature and took one specimen, 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:23.000 and he shot, He shot one, he shot, killed, and stuffed. 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.120 He said that he felt the bird was noble and 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:30.640 reflected the character of the first US president, so he 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:32.840 named the bird after him. That's why it's got the 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:37.360 name Washington. And here's what his writing say. It is 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:41.440 indisputably the noblest bird of its genus that has yet 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:46.160 been discovered in the United States. I shot it, that's 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:49.560 not in this text. Think I trust I shall be 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:52.760 allowed to honor with the name of one yet nobler, 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:55.319 who is the savior of his country, and whose name 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.679 will ever be dear to it. To those who may 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.640 be curious to know my reason, I can only say that, 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:03.440 as the new World gave me birth and liberty, the 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:07.600 great man who endured ensured its independence is next to 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:10.600 my heart. He had a nobility of mind and a 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:15.000 generosity of soul such as here seldom possessed. He was brave, 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:18.200 so was the eagle like it too. He was the 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.560 terror of his foes at his fame, extending from pole 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:25.080 to pole, resembles the majestic soarings of the mightiest of 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:28.280 the feathered tribe. If America has reason to be proud 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:30.960 of her Washington, so has she to be proud of 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:33.360 her great Eagle. It's a long way to say. He 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:40.200 really liked this bird. He like the president too, apparently yea, well, 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:45.160 Washington was dead, so no, he couldn't impress Washington. Washington 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.480 was long gone at this point. Could have been one 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:51.360 of those like, no, really, I love America. That's very true. 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:56.200 Could have been. Audubon says that he saw the eagle 0:14:56.520 --> 0:15:00.360 five times over a series of years. He saw first 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.280 on the Mississippi or first on the Mississippi and Ohio 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:12.520 rivers near Grand Tower, Illinois, then near Evansville, Indiana, Henderson, Kentucky, Clarksville, Indiana, 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:17.320 and then Mound City, Illinois. It was the bird that 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:20.520 he saw in Kentucky. That's the one that he shot. 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.600 He said that he saw somebody had slaughtered pigs, I 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.760 think earlier that day or the day before, something like that. Yeah, 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:28.880 and he was it was going after the scraps. Yeah, 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:32.680 as eagles will do. And so he happened to be 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:35.400 there with his gun and he got himself a sample. 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.600 Poor eagle, Poor eagle. I gotta say, if this thing 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.640 really truly did exist and it's he might have shot 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:51.000 one of the last existing specimens possibly could be. Yeah. Um, 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.440 so the sample, the or the snut sample, the specimen 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:59.600 the bird that Audubon shot and then dubbed the Washington eagle. 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:05.400 This particular bird was really big. The dimensions on this 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:09.440 animal are that it stood three ft seven inches tall, 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.600 that converts to a hundred and sixteen centimeters, and it 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:17.440 had a wingspan of ten ft two inches, which is 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:21.720 just about three meters. So to put that in that's big. 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:24.840 And to put that into contact with another big bird 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:29.080 that most people have seen, if not in person, you've 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:32.880 seen an imagery and on the television, is the ball leagle, 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:36.120 which is the national bird of the United States. The 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:41.680 ball leagle on average stands somewhere between two ft four 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.480 inches to three ft four inches, which is seventy two 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:49.720 hundred and two centimeters tall, and as a typical wingspan 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:53.320 between five ft ten inches to seven ft six inches, 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.880 which converts to one point eight or two point three meters. 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:00.600 Like that's a significant difference between those. The size of 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:03.400 these two creatures, it's still not as big as the 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.800 California condor, though you didn't bring another bird in. I'm 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:10.119 not saying it's the biggest bird ever. I'm just saying 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:15.800 their wingspans get the average nine point eight feet, which 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:23.320 is three meters. For those of you who are wondering, beat, 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.640 I think this is an average you're right, okay, fine, 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:30.359 about the same size as a condo. Yeah, it's about 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:35.400 the same size, which huge, Yeah, which are absolutely big birds. Now, 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:40.080 what's really interesting about the specimen that Audubon had is 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:44.200 he said that it was a male bird, and when 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.760 it comes to eagles, the males of the species are 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:52.040 the smaller of the two sexes, which means that the 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:57.320 females would have been even larger most most birds. Actually, yeah, yeah, 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.840 that typically is the way it is in uh them, Actually, 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.720 with like a lot of species, Well, yeah, it's it's 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.680 I'm not gonna say, well, I don't I can't think 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:09.240 of what the division is, but there is certain animal 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:12.600 kingdoms where it is the female is the larger of 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:15.119 the two, and there are others where it is the 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:18.080 male And I don't understand why that is. I'm sure 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:22.600 that that is a huge, long conversation and investigation that 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:26.800 I just don't have the brain powerful I don't. I 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.240 don't think it's that. I don't. Yeah, I'm I'm guessing 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:31.879 that's not it. Um Okay, So let's get back to 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:33.680 the Washington eagle, because there's a couple of more things 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:37.360 that he describes that are unusual. One is that he 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:42.200 describes the tarsus of the bird as having uniform scaling, 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:46.200 which tarsus is the bones and the feet. He's talking 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:49.760 about the skin on the bird's feet, because if you 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:53.280 look at like normal eagles, they've got some really big 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:55.640 scales up the front of each toe, and then they're 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:58.520 kind of their scales all over the foot, whereas if 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.639 you look like a songbird, it's got kind of pebbly 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.959 skin or like chickens. They they're the skin on their 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.560 feet almost looked like it has rings to it. So 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:11.080 it's a different skin type. And this uniform pattern that 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:14.480 he describes doesn't match up with any other eagle that 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:17.080 is known, doesn't match up with another type of bird. 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:22.320 I have not seen that description on any bird of prey. 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:24.720 Because if you think about it. A bird of prey 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:28.679 uses its feet to catch living animals that are likely 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:31.920 to thrash and fight back, so it needs some defenses there. 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:36.400 Ok that doesn't mean that there aren't big birds that 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:42.439 have uniformally um scaled feet, but I didn't see a 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:45.000 whole lot on that in the bird of prey, for 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:47.560 I mean, condors have Sorry, I'm just gonna keep going. 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:51.720 They have that like kind of scaly. I mean, they're 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:54.840 scavengers mostly, so they have that kind of scaly type 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:57.960 the big scales on the little scales more like pebbly 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:01.200 like the songbird birds. Can I mean, would you describe 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:03.640 that as that's pebbly, right, I would, Yeah, that's that's 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:08.360 kind of pebbly. Yeah, just saying yep, continuing to say, 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:13.440 and you're looking at the California California, which are super 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:15.560 rare and endangered. Just going to throw that out there. 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:19.520 Don't go playing Audubon and like shooting one. Really don't 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.960 do that. I really don't do that anyway. Sorry, Okay, Okay, 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:25.440 that's a good example of formulating a bird that would 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:28.159 have the kind of feet. But they are they're scavengers, 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:34.080 they're not really hunters. They're not they're not birds fish 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:39.119 as a primary source of their food. Yeah, Okay. Audubon 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:43.600 decides that the Washington eagle is what is known as 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:47.040 a sea eagle, which puts it in the genus God. 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:49.560 I hope I get this right as well, Hayley. A 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:52.679 TuS is how I have phonetically written, So we're going 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:56.159 to run with that. In that family are birds like 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:59.720 the bald eagle. There's the white bellied sea eagle in Australia, 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:04.200 Asian palace fish eagle, or the white tailed eagle in Eurasia. 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:10.119 There's eight species in this family, and the commonality is 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:13.840 that they tend to have white plumage on them, but 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:16.640 it's not always in the same place because they're literally 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:19.520 scattered all over the globe and they're generally the same 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:23.840 size these birds roughly. Yeah, they're all larger birds, large 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:28.440 birds of prey. It's definitely not play. They're not birds 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:31.359 of play. I mean they kind of are. They probably 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:35.160 play when they're not too busy killing things. I feel 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:37.960 like I've reached my slaughter quota for the day. Let's 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:43.159 play bird. Yes, I mean, you know, writing the what 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:45.280 are they? What they what are they called? Right right 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:52.920 in the Yeah, the plumes of hot air. Ye remember columns, 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:56.200 the thermals, the thermals. There you go writing the thermals 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:58.960 has to be a lot of fun. Yeah, that's cool. 0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:02.359 That's a really long Actually, they're probably they're they're just 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:04.280 like sitting there, like going up and up, and if 0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:10.320 they I'm really getting over, I'm not even flapping wild wings. 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:15.080 I'm sure that's what they think. Okay, So all sea 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:18.439 eagles basically the same size. They're they're roughly all the 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:22.800 same size within you know, within a spread. They all, 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:26.760 as I said, they all hunt for their food. Primarily 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:28.920 they get it out of the water. So they hunt 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:32.600 and feed on fish. Now, if we think about bald 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:39.920 eagles in particular, they they're semi scavengers, semi bullybirds. They 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:42.560 don't care if they find the fish already dead or 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:46.479 they're also pro known to chase other birds away. Like 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:49.960 osprey will catch a fish and the bald eagles will 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:52.880 harass them so much that they'll leave the fish behind 0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:56.159 to get away. Ye. I actually saw that happen right 0:22:56.160 --> 0:22:57.800 out here in Ross Island one time. I saw a 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:01.480 couple of bald eagles going after an osprey. Yeah, there 0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:07.080 are also really good at catching fish. Are much better 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:11.480 than bald eagles. Yea there. I mean they'll also the 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:13.640 other that they're like most birds of prey. They'll also 0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:17.080 eat mammals. So they are really opportunistic. If there is 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:19.440 a meal to be had and it is easy to get, 0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:22.399 they will get it. That is their plan, that is 0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:24.639 their method. That's that's what I hear. It's like, you know, 0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:27.200 like in place it's like Alaska where bald eagles are thick. 0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:29.280 You can't let your catty, your dog out because they 0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:32.360 will carry it away. I actually had friends who this 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:36.240 was twenty plus years ago, worked in a cannary and 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:40.159 said that the place was just lousy with bald eagles 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:43.040 around the canny. You couldn't get rid of them because 0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:46.000 they were just scavenging because we just made it way 0:23:46.040 --> 0:23:49.240 too each Yeah, oh yeah, it was easy. It was 0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:53.800 easy lunch, easy dinner. Why would you leave? So something 0:23:53.840 --> 0:23:57.399 that we should note about the description of the eagle 0:23:57.600 --> 0:24:00.159 from Audubon, then this will go because I know lot 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:02.480 of people. Now, Devon, You've got a bunch of people thinking, well, 0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:05.199 I wonder if it was the California condor he was 0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:11.280 looking at. Except there's the there's a region thing going 0:24:11.320 --> 0:24:14.320 on here, because there's California condor, which you're talking about. 0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:18.679