1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,796 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:27,316 --> 00:00:28,876 Speaker 2: You know, I went to a game with my dad 3 00:00:28,916 --> 00:00:31,476 Speaker 2: and my brother and it was miserable and awful, and 4 00:00:31,476 --> 00:00:33,116 Speaker 2: we're all frustrated and mad. 5 00:00:35,836 --> 00:00:40,876 Speaker 1: Eric Simon's high school math teacher in northern California. Typical 6 00:00:40,916 --> 00:00:43,436 Speaker 1: sports fan in some ways. He fell in love with 7 00:00:43,436 --> 00:00:46,436 Speaker 1: his favorite teams as a little kid after his dad 8 00:00:46,476 --> 00:00:49,236 Speaker 1: took him to some games. Now he's all grown up 9 00:00:49,476 --> 00:00:50,676 Speaker 1: but still going to games. 10 00:00:51,196 --> 00:00:53,916 Speaker 2: I'm riding home. I'm taking bart back across from Berkeley 11 00:00:54,076 --> 00:00:57,036 Speaker 2: into the city on a Saturday night, and I'm sitting 12 00:00:57,076 --> 00:00:59,356 Speaker 2: there and I have like a headache from wearing a 13 00:00:59,476 --> 00:01:02,076 Speaker 2: dumb hat that is like constricted my head for too long, 14 00:01:02,156 --> 00:01:04,356 Speaker 2: and I've been standing in the sun, and i had 15 00:01:04,396 --> 00:01:06,516 Speaker 2: like a miserable dinner, and there's all these people around 16 00:01:06,556 --> 00:01:10,196 Speaker 2: me riding bart in for like a nice night. They're 17 00:01:10,276 --> 00:01:13,356 Speaker 2: dressed up, they're going to bars, they're going to nice restaurants. 18 00:01:14,836 --> 00:01:17,556 Speaker 1: But in one way, Eric was not typical. He was 19 00:01:17,596 --> 00:01:20,276 Speaker 1: starting to ask questions that most sports fans never do. 20 00:01:20,996 --> 00:01:22,516 Speaker 2: And I'm just looking at myself and I'm crammed in 21 00:01:22,556 --> 00:01:24,716 Speaker 2: the corner, just feeling like shit, like what the fuck 22 00:01:24,796 --> 00:01:26,236 Speaker 2: is wrong with me? Sorry, I don't know if I 23 00:01:26,236 --> 00:01:28,876 Speaker 2: can swim as you get Oh, we do, yes, What 24 00:01:29,356 --> 00:01:32,316 Speaker 2: is wrong with me? Why am I sitting here in 25 00:01:32,396 --> 00:01:35,676 Speaker 2: the corner of a bart train, sweat stained and smelling. 26 00:01:36,276 --> 00:01:39,276 Speaker 2: I'm like eight thirty on a Saturday night, when everybody 27 00:01:39,276 --> 00:01:42,956 Speaker 2: else is leading such a pleasant, normal life around me, 28 00:01:44,036 --> 00:01:46,916 Speaker 2: And I think I just felt that, like, like, why 29 00:01:46,956 --> 00:01:49,076 Speaker 2: do all of us do this so much? Why do 30 00:01:49,116 --> 00:01:50,196 Speaker 2: we do this to ourselves? 31 00:01:50,996 --> 00:01:54,996 Speaker 1: He was on that train around twenty ten. Eric teaches math, 32 00:01:55,396 --> 00:01:59,236 Speaker 1: but Eric also writes the thought crossed his mind. Maybe 33 00:01:59,276 --> 00:02:02,276 Speaker 1: I should write about this. Maybe I should figure out 34 00:02:02,276 --> 00:02:04,516 Speaker 1: what's wrong with me, because someone needs to. 35 00:02:05,316 --> 00:02:06,836 Speaker 2: I was very naive at this point. I was a 36 00:02:06,836 --> 00:02:09,116 Speaker 2: science writer. I wrote mostly about scientists, and I thought, 37 00:02:09,476 --> 00:02:11,636 Speaker 2: you know, I'll go find a scientist, and a scientist 38 00:02:11,636 --> 00:02:14,236 Speaker 2: will answer it for me, because that's sort of what 39 00:02:14,276 --> 00:02:17,076 Speaker 2: I did. I'd have a question and I'd find an expert, 40 00:02:17,076 --> 00:02:19,556 Speaker 2: and the expert would say, oh, yeah, this. I honestly 41 00:02:19,636 --> 00:02:22,556 Speaker 2: sort of thought, you know, there's some guys studies sports 42 00:02:22,596 --> 00:02:25,116 Speaker 2: fans at Harvard and they'll say, yeah, there's this little 43 00:02:25,156 --> 00:02:27,636 Speaker 2: part of your brain there, and if you nuke that sucker, 44 00:02:27,796 --> 00:02:29,276 Speaker 2: you'd be healthy again. 45 00:02:30,476 --> 00:02:41,596 Speaker 1: If only it were that easy. I'm Michael Lewis, and 46 00:02:41,636 --> 00:02:45,396 Speaker 1: this is against the rules. Each season we've taken a 47 00:02:45,476 --> 00:02:47,876 Speaker 1: character in American life who also happens to be a 48 00:02:47,956 --> 00:02:53,556 Speaker 1: character in American sports. The referee, the coach, the expert. 49 00:02:54,476 --> 00:02:58,356 Speaker 1: These characters have changed, their roles, have evolved in ways 50 00:02:58,356 --> 00:03:00,596 Speaker 1: that tell us not just about sports, but about the 51 00:03:00,596 --> 00:03:04,036 Speaker 1: world we live in. This season, the character will be 52 00:03:04,116 --> 00:03:14,636 Speaker 1: exploring is the fan. Being a fan is less a 53 00:03:14,716 --> 00:03:17,996 Speaker 1: role than an emotional state. And that emotional state hasn't 54 00:03:18,036 --> 00:03:21,156 Speaker 1: changed much since the fifth century BC, when Greeks hollered 55 00:03:21,196 --> 00:03:24,716 Speaker 1: at other Greeks racing chariots. What's changing is how that 56 00:03:24,796 --> 00:03:28,836 Speaker 1: emotional state can be exploited. That's a huge deal because 57 00:03:28,836 --> 00:03:32,516 Speaker 1: it's shaping our society in all sorts of ways. This 58 00:03:32,676 --> 00:03:34,556 Speaker 1: fact has been staring me in the face for the 59 00:03:34,596 --> 00:03:37,356 Speaker 1: longest time. Now, I'm thinking right now, when I was 60 00:03:37,396 --> 00:03:40,796 Speaker 1: writing Moneyball, that book was about a baseball team with 61 00:03:40,916 --> 00:03:43,796 Speaker 1: no money, the Oakland A's figuring out that the other 62 00:03:43,876 --> 00:03:48,396 Speaker 1: baseball teams were behaving irrationally and exploiting that they sparked 63 00:03:48,396 --> 00:03:52,116 Speaker 1: a revolution not just in sports, but in business, in politics, 64 00:03:52,116 --> 00:03:55,356 Speaker 1: and all sorts of other things. Even now, you can't 65 00:03:55,356 --> 00:04:00,996 Speaker 1: help but wonder why Oakland. Why did this world changing 66 00:04:00,996 --> 00:04:04,396 Speaker 1: event occur inside this baseball team with not too many 67 00:04:04,436 --> 00:04:08,636 Speaker 1: fans and no money. So few fans and so little 68 00:04:08,636 --> 00:04:11,516 Speaker 1: money that the Oakland A's are as I speak, packing 69 00:04:11,596 --> 00:04:14,116 Speaker 1: up their bags and on their way to Las Vegas 70 00:04:14,596 --> 00:04:17,876 Speaker 1: in search of more fans and more money. Back when 71 00:04:17,876 --> 00:04:20,796 Speaker 1: the Oakland A's were inventing moneyball, their lack of resources 72 00:04:20,956 --> 00:04:24,316 Speaker 1: was obviously important. It forced the A's management to think 73 00:04:24,396 --> 00:04:27,796 Speaker 1: differently to compete with the teams with more money. But 74 00:04:27,956 --> 00:04:33,956 Speaker 1: another explanation was the Oakland fan or his absence. Back 75 00:04:33,956 --> 00:04:36,516 Speaker 1: when I was writing the book, the Oakland management said 76 00:04:36,516 --> 00:04:40,316 Speaker 1: this thing over and over. We are so lucky. We 77 00:04:40,356 --> 00:04:42,756 Speaker 1: don't have a big, noisy fan base paying much attention 78 00:04:42,796 --> 00:04:45,956 Speaker 1: to what we do. The Oakland's front office didn't have 79 00:04:46,036 --> 00:04:48,276 Speaker 1: this loud mob hollering at them to do the same 80 00:04:48,356 --> 00:04:52,036 Speaker 1: stupid stuff that the other baseball people were doing. They 81 00:04:52,036 --> 00:04:54,356 Speaker 1: weren't being egged on by their fans and by their 82 00:04:54,356 --> 00:04:56,956 Speaker 1: local media in the same way that say, the Yankees 83 00:04:57,036 --> 00:04:59,836 Speaker 1: or the Red Sox were a lot of people who 84 00:04:59,876 --> 00:05:02,996 Speaker 1: manage baseball teams were effectively playing craps to impress the 85 00:05:02,996 --> 00:05:06,916 Speaker 1: crowd around the table. The Oakland management was off quietly 86 00:05:06,956 --> 00:05:10,796 Speaker 1: counting cards at the blackjack table. They could ignore fan 87 00:05:10,876 --> 00:05:15,236 Speaker 1: emotion and rid themselves of fan biases, and that was 88 00:05:15,396 --> 00:05:20,396 Speaker 1: just a huge tactical advantage. A weird sort of combat 89 00:05:20,436 --> 00:05:24,556 Speaker 1: line runs through the modern economy. That's what this entire 90 00:05:24,676 --> 00:05:28,156 Speaker 1: season is really about, the gap between the people who 91 00:05:28,196 --> 00:05:30,556 Speaker 1: count cards and the people who don't even realize the 92 00:05:30,596 --> 00:05:33,436 Speaker 1: cards can be counted. Either you're one of these smart 93 00:05:33,436 --> 00:05:36,596 Speaker 1: people able to measure and analyze and calculate probabilities and 94 00:05:36,676 --> 00:05:40,156 Speaker 1: place your bets as rationally as possible, or you are 95 00:05:40,236 --> 00:05:40,876 Speaker 1: their prey. 96 00:05:41,796 --> 00:05:45,396 Speaker 2: A fan, so you know, just like Google, you know, 97 00:05:45,636 --> 00:05:47,276 Speaker 2: sports fan researchers. 98 00:05:47,476 --> 00:05:47,756 Speaker 1: Yep. 99 00:05:48,156 --> 00:05:51,716 Speaker 2: And to be honest, not that much comes up. And 100 00:05:51,756 --> 00:05:53,156 Speaker 2: it's like, well, why is that? 101 00:05:54,196 --> 00:05:56,236 Speaker 1: I definitely have a weak spot for writers who come 102 00:05:56,276 --> 00:05:59,436 Speaker 1: along and point out something important that's just been sitting 103 00:05:59,436 --> 00:06:04,876 Speaker 1: there forever unnoticed. Fifteen years ago, Eric Simons did just that. 104 00:06:05,636 --> 00:06:10,276 Speaker 1: He noticed how weirdly he behaved as a fan, his irrationality, 105 00:06:11,116 --> 00:06:14,916 Speaker 1: how unhappy it could make him. He asked, what's the 106 00:06:14,956 --> 00:06:15,556 Speaker 1: matter with me? 107 00:06:17,036 --> 00:06:19,276 Speaker 2: This is a thing that is you know, billions of 108 00:06:19,316 --> 00:06:23,236 Speaker 2: dollars and everyone does it, and it's true across culture 109 00:06:23,356 --> 00:06:26,556 Speaker 2: is like, why isn't there this, you know, the Institute 110 00:06:26,556 --> 00:06:30,116 Speaker 2: for the Study of Sports Fans at every university on 111 00:06:30,156 --> 00:06:33,716 Speaker 2: the planet, and so you know, I started started there. 112 00:06:32,996 --> 00:06:36,276 Speaker 1: They're all too busy going to the football games, right, 113 00:06:37,716 --> 00:06:39,316 Speaker 1: That's why there's a lot. 114 00:06:39,156 --> 00:06:39,916 Speaker 2: Of truth to that. 115 00:06:44,156 --> 00:06:47,476 Speaker 1: Eric Simon set out to find someone, anyone who could 116 00:06:47,476 --> 00:06:50,076 Speaker 1: help him to explain the weird things his mind was doing, 117 00:06:51,156 --> 00:06:53,956 Speaker 1: and back then, if you did that, you eventually ended 118 00:06:54,036 --> 00:06:57,716 Speaker 1: up meeting Dan Juan. I can't figure out, for dramatic purposes, 119 00:06:57,876 --> 00:07:00,276 Speaker 1: whether it's better to call you Professor Waller Dan. 120 00:07:00,716 --> 00:07:03,356 Speaker 3: Yeah, I I will leave that up to you. 121 00:07:03,716 --> 00:07:05,916 Speaker 4: The only thing I care about is what my grand 122 00:07:05,956 --> 00:07:08,836 Speaker 4: shaw calls me Dan Dan. Beyond that, I really don't 123 00:07:08,876 --> 00:07:09,436 Speaker 4: really there. 124 00:07:10,276 --> 00:07:13,396 Speaker 1: Danje is a psychology professor at Murray State University in 125 00:07:13,436 --> 00:07:16,876 Speaker 1: Western Kentucky. Professor one's kind of great because it's the 126 00:07:17,156 --> 00:07:19,636 Speaker 1: professor of something that nobody else is a professor of. 127 00:07:19,956 --> 00:07:24,236 Speaker 1: Sor Dan or his students have written some huge number 128 00:07:24,236 --> 00:07:28,476 Speaker 1: of serious academic articles with titles like is there really 129 00:07:28,476 --> 00:07:31,996 Speaker 1: no Crying in Baseball? Examining the acceptance of crying in sport? 130 00:07:32,636 --> 00:07:36,156 Speaker 1: And feeling suck and so does your team, exploring the 131 00:07:36,196 --> 00:07:40,956 Speaker 1: link between restrictive emotionality and dysfunctional fandom. But for a 132 00:07:41,036 --> 00:07:43,956 Speaker 1: long time, as far as Dan knew, he was the 133 00:07:43,996 --> 00:07:52,796 Speaker 1: world's only full time sports fan researcher. He invented the 134 00:07:52,796 --> 00:07:56,676 Speaker 1: field by accident. As a graduate student back in nineteen 135 00:07:56,756 --> 00:08:00,076 Speaker 1: eighty seven. On the first day of class, his professor 136 00:08:00,076 --> 00:08:04,156 Speaker 1: gave him a homework assignment find some testable hypothesis about 137 00:08:04,196 --> 00:08:08,596 Speaker 1: human behavior. He'd gone home and watched Sports Center instead. 138 00:08:09,156 --> 00:08:11,716 Speaker 1: There were only two students in Dan's class, and when 139 00:08:11,716 --> 00:08:14,956 Speaker 1: it was time to present, the professor called on Dan. First. 140 00:08:16,156 --> 00:08:20,836 Speaker 4: I had one hundred percent forgotten about the assignment. I 141 00:08:20,916 --> 00:08:23,916 Speaker 4: am now just making cramp up as I go along, 142 00:08:24,476 --> 00:08:27,116 Speaker 4: and I said, well, I think there had been this 143 00:08:27,236 --> 00:08:29,476 Speaker 4: story on the sports and about a soccer rise. Well, 144 00:08:29,516 --> 00:08:32,836 Speaker 4: I think that if an individual is really highly identified 145 00:08:33,036 --> 00:08:36,236 Speaker 4: psychologic connected to their sports team, they're probably more likely 146 00:08:36,476 --> 00:08:38,156 Speaker 4: to get violent when they're watching the team. 147 00:08:38,356 --> 00:08:39,396 Speaker 3: If things don't work. 148 00:08:39,236 --> 00:08:43,476 Speaker 1: Out on the spot, Dan cooks up his testable hypothesis. 149 00:08:44,076 --> 00:08:46,796 Speaker 1: He believes the sports fans most likely to start fights 150 00:08:46,796 --> 00:08:49,956 Speaker 1: after a loss are the sports fans most devoted to 151 00:08:49,996 --> 00:08:53,956 Speaker 1: that team. This hypothesis will be a breeze to test. 152 00:08:53,996 --> 00:08:57,236 Speaker 1: He thinks, surely someone in the world of psychology has 153 00:08:57,236 --> 00:08:58,196 Speaker 1: already looked into it. 154 00:08:58,996 --> 00:08:59,476 Speaker 2: When you go. 155 00:08:59,516 --> 00:09:03,716 Speaker 5: Back and you look back at people who've studied fans, 156 00:09:04,236 --> 00:09:08,036 Speaker 5: what do you find a random study or two on 157 00:09:08,556 --> 00:09:12,636 Speaker 5: fan viol And if you ever found anybody who wrote 158 00:09:12,676 --> 00:09:16,276 Speaker 5: like an opinion or an essay about sport fandom, they 159 00:09:16,316 --> 00:09:17,396 Speaker 5: all just slammed it. 160 00:09:17,476 --> 00:09:20,516 Speaker 4: Everybody loves sport except for the you know, the eggheads 161 00:09:20,516 --> 00:09:22,156 Speaker 4: are actually studying sport. 162 00:09:22,556 --> 00:09:26,316 Speaker 1: So Dan designs his own study. He discovers, to his surprise, 163 00:09:26,516 --> 00:09:29,676 Speaker 1: that there's little correlation between fans devotion to their teams 164 00:09:30,236 --> 00:09:33,236 Speaker 1: and their willingness to punch people. He starts to look 165 00:09:33,276 --> 00:09:35,476 Speaker 1: further into the lives of dedicated fans. 166 00:09:36,516 --> 00:09:39,436 Speaker 3: Sports fans are more politically active than non sports fans. 167 00:09:39,476 --> 00:09:41,916 Speaker 3: They're more likely to go museums and non sports fans. 168 00:09:41,956 --> 00:09:45,196 Speaker 4: They're more likely to play sports, they're more likely to 169 00:09:45,236 --> 00:09:47,356 Speaker 4: go to the theater, They're more likely to donate. 170 00:09:47,556 --> 00:09:50,236 Speaker 3: They're also more likely to have higher GPAs. 171 00:09:50,956 --> 00:09:51,756 Speaker 2: So they're not lazy. 172 00:09:51,876 --> 00:09:52,356 Speaker 3: No, they're not. 173 00:09:52,396 --> 00:09:55,756 Speaker 4: Now again, okay, some are right, I mean, they gotta 174 00:09:55,796 --> 00:09:57,996 Speaker 4: always admit right that they're out there. 175 00:09:57,996 --> 00:10:01,756 Speaker 3: But no, the vast majority are are quite involved. 176 00:10:02,476 --> 00:10:02,636 Speaker 2: Now. 177 00:10:02,716 --> 00:10:06,316 Speaker 1: Obviously all fans aren't the same. There are nuances here, 178 00:10:06,756 --> 00:10:09,996 Speaker 1: and Dan one began to explore them. What began with 179 00:10:10,076 --> 00:10:14,636 Speaker 1: a forgotten homework assignment became a stream of published papers, the. 180 00:10:14,756 --> 00:10:20,196 Speaker 4: Reviews, and the response I got from academics and journals, 181 00:10:20,236 --> 00:10:23,076 Speaker 4: and that the media was so positive that I just 182 00:10:23,556 --> 00:10:25,996 Speaker 4: basically scuttled everything else and decided to just study this. 183 00:10:25,956 --> 00:10:26,836 Speaker 3: For thirty five years. 184 00:10:27,716 --> 00:10:29,956 Speaker 1: It's kind of odd if you think about it. Basically 185 00:10:29,996 --> 00:10:33,076 Speaker 1: no one else wanted to study sports fans, but lots 186 00:10:33,076 --> 00:10:36,516 Speaker 1: of people, even people who ran serious academic journals, were 187 00:10:36,556 --> 00:10:37,516 Speaker 1: curious about them. 188 00:10:38,076 --> 00:10:41,836 Speaker 4: It's this social category where the editors and their reviewers 189 00:10:42,076 --> 00:10:44,876 Speaker 4: there's a decent chance, no guarantee, there's a decent chance 190 00:10:44,876 --> 00:10:48,036 Speaker 4: that they're sports fans, and they're like, yeah, why in 191 00:10:48,076 --> 00:10:49,396 Speaker 4: the world am I doing this. 192 00:10:50,436 --> 00:10:53,236 Speaker 1: It's that same question again, and no one's answering it. 193 00:10:53,996 --> 00:10:57,356 Speaker 4: People are so curious as to why it is such 194 00:10:57,396 --> 00:11:00,276 Speaker 4: a large chunk of the population will dedicate such time 195 00:11:00,356 --> 00:11:04,996 Speaker 4: and money and love and desire and emotion and sadness 196 00:11:05,036 --> 00:11:09,556 Speaker 4: and whatever you know to this voluntary activity. Right, no 197 00:11:09,596 --> 00:11:11,596 Speaker 4: one's like twisting their arm and making them go do 198 00:11:11,676 --> 00:11:16,196 Speaker 4: this and they have very very little, if any, controlled 199 00:11:16,196 --> 00:11:17,036 Speaker 4: over the outcome. 200 00:11:17,836 --> 00:11:20,876 Speaker 3: I mean, you can't find another place in society where 201 00:11:20,916 --> 00:11:22,076 Speaker 3: that's the case, right. 202 00:11:21,916 --> 00:11:24,516 Speaker 4: Where people care so much about something and they walk 203 00:11:24,596 --> 00:11:27,316 Speaker 4: in going, yeah, you know, there's about a fifty to 204 00:11:27,316 --> 00:11:30,556 Speaker 4: fifty chance that I'm gonna hate this at the end 205 00:11:30,596 --> 00:11:31,476 Speaker 4: of consuming it. 206 00:11:32,036 --> 00:11:34,716 Speaker 3: I can't control the outcome. Let's go. 207 00:11:44,516 --> 00:11:47,036 Speaker 1: Let's go back to nineteen eighty seven is a starting point, 208 00:11:47,516 --> 00:11:50,756 Speaker 1: the year danjan forgot his homework and stumbled into a career. 209 00:11:52,116 --> 00:11:55,436 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty seven, the highest rated TV program in 210 00:11:55,476 --> 00:11:59,236 Speaker 1: the United States, according to Nielsen research, was The Cosby Show, 211 00:12:00,156 --> 00:12:04,436 Speaker 1: followed by a Different World, Cheers and The Golden Girls. 212 00:12:05,116 --> 00:12:07,676 Speaker 1: Only one of the top thirty TV shows in nineteen 213 00:12:07,716 --> 00:12:11,476 Speaker 1: eighty seven had anything to do with sports. Monday Night 214 00:12:11,516 --> 00:12:15,916 Speaker 1: Football came in sixteenth. TV's changed a lot since nineteen 215 00:12:15,956 --> 00:12:20,996 Speaker 1: eighty seven. In twenty twenty three, ninety three of the 216 00:12:21,036 --> 00:12:24,356 Speaker 1: one hundred most watched broadcasts in the United States were 217 00:12:24,396 --> 00:12:29,036 Speaker 1: sporting events. Twenty NFL games drew bigger crowds than the 218 00:12:29,036 --> 00:12:32,956 Speaker 1: State of the Union address, fifty eight NFL games, and 219 00:12:33,036 --> 00:12:36,596 Speaker 1: one college football game had more viewers than the oscars. 220 00:12:37,636 --> 00:12:39,756 Speaker 1: Only when you get to the second hundred most watched 221 00:12:39,756 --> 00:12:43,796 Speaker 1: TV shows, does football start to get some competition from 222 00:12:43,836 --> 00:12:49,756 Speaker 1: basketball and baseball, pro golf and the Kentucky Derby. There's 223 00:12:49,796 --> 00:12:52,636 Speaker 1: no longer any question of whether sports and sports fans 224 00:12:52,676 --> 00:12:56,596 Speaker 1: are central to our culture. The question is does our 225 00:12:56,636 --> 00:13:03,396 Speaker 1: culture have a center without them? 226 00:13:03,636 --> 00:13:06,556 Speaker 6: What about the fans? What about the fan? 227 00:13:07,436 --> 00:13:09,636 Speaker 1: Andrew Brant runs the Center for Sport Sorts Law at 228 00:13:09,676 --> 00:13:13,516 Speaker 1: Villanova University, but before that he spent a decade running 229 00:13:13,516 --> 00:13:15,356 Speaker 1: the business end of the Green Bay Packers. 230 00:13:17,596 --> 00:13:21,836 Speaker 6: And I feel for the fan because listen, I cover business, 231 00:13:22,196 --> 00:13:26,996 Speaker 6: and in these business negotiations between leagues and players, associations, 232 00:13:27,476 --> 00:13:32,876 Speaker 6: media networks and leagues, municipalities and teams about stadiums and 233 00:13:32,996 --> 00:13:37,396 Speaker 6: taxpayer money, the fans are not party, right, There's no 234 00:13:37,556 --> 00:13:42,356 Speaker 6: negotiation where well, let's see what the fan thinks. 235 00:13:41,996 --> 00:13:42,156 Speaker 5: Right. 236 00:13:42,756 --> 00:13:46,316 Speaker 6: So I understand sports is fun and games, and I 237 00:13:46,356 --> 00:13:50,236 Speaker 6: tell my students all the time, but it's not at 238 00:13:50,236 --> 00:13:53,036 Speaker 6: this level. It's not. It's a business, and it's a 239 00:13:53,076 --> 00:13:56,916 Speaker 6: cold business. You see players shipped out left and right. 240 00:13:56,996 --> 00:14:00,916 Speaker 6: You see fans kind of a pawn in the process, 241 00:14:01,556 --> 00:14:05,596 Speaker 6: but they keep coming back, They keep coming back. 242 00:14:06,276 --> 00:14:09,756 Speaker 1: It's such an alluring product that the dollar doesn't have 243 00:14:09,796 --> 00:14:11,956 Speaker 1: to pay much attention to the interests of the buyer. 244 00:14:12,796 --> 00:14:17,476 Speaker 6: Well, they come back despite despite prices rising, despite cable 245 00:14:17,476 --> 00:14:21,516 Speaker 6: bills rising, despite all those things. If there was a 246 00:14:21,556 --> 00:14:26,516 Speaker 6: breaking point where fans say that I've had enough, maybe 247 00:14:27,036 --> 00:14:33,956 Speaker 6: prices would change, maybe availability would change. We just don't know, but. 248 00:14:33,876 --> 00:14:37,316 Speaker 1: We sort of do know. Booming ticket prices, teams jumping 249 00:14:37,316 --> 00:14:40,436 Speaker 1: around from city to city, players jumping around from team 250 00:14:40,476 --> 00:14:44,396 Speaker 1: to team, college sports becoming a raw money grab. People 251 00:14:44,476 --> 00:14:47,236 Speaker 1: used to say that greedy capitalism would kill fan interest, 252 00:14:47,316 --> 00:14:49,156 Speaker 1: but not a chance. No matter what you do to 253 00:14:49,196 --> 00:14:51,516 Speaker 1: the fan, or to his team or to his sport, 254 00:14:52,156 --> 00:14:54,916 Speaker 1: he's been willing to take it and come back for more. 255 00:14:55,916 --> 00:14:58,036 Speaker 1: The Green Bay Packers are the only pro sports teams 256 00:14:58,036 --> 00:15:00,876 Speaker 1: that's owned by their fans, and so they publish their 257 00:15:00,876 --> 00:15:05,156 Speaker 1: financial results. Andrew Brent knows this better than anyone. The Packers' 258 00:15:05,156 --> 00:15:09,036 Speaker 1: finances over time show you the dollar value of fan interest. 259 00:15:10,436 --> 00:15:13,876 Speaker 6: So think about gross revenues, right. Gross revenues when I 260 00:15:13,916 --> 00:15:17,916 Speaker 6: got there in nineteen ninety nine were about two hundred million. 261 00:15:18,436 --> 00:15:21,356 Speaker 6: By the time I left in two thousand and nine, 262 00:15:22,276 --> 00:15:25,436 Speaker 6: Packers had revenues of four hundred and fifty million dollars, 263 00:15:25,796 --> 00:15:28,276 Speaker 6: so more than double that amount in a decade. 264 00:15:29,476 --> 00:15:31,796 Speaker 1: Back in nineteen eighty seven, the Packers, if they could 265 00:15:31,876 --> 00:15:35,076 Speaker 1: legally be sold, could have been bought for roughly ninety 266 00:15:35,076 --> 00:15:39,116 Speaker 1: million dollars. Forbes now values the team at five point 267 00:15:39,236 --> 00:15:43,436 Speaker 1: six billion. The Packers didn't publish their players' salaries back 268 00:15:43,436 --> 00:15:45,996 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty seven. They weren't that interesting, but no 269 00:15:46,036 --> 00:15:49,356 Speaker 1: one made more than six figures. Last year, the team's 270 00:15:49,436 --> 00:15:54,476 Speaker 1: left tackle made twenty one point three million dollars. Who's 271 00:15:54,556 --> 00:15:57,916 Speaker 1: ultimately paying for all this the fans, of course, through 272 00:15:57,956 --> 00:16:01,956 Speaker 1: ticket sales, through cable bills, through less tangible ways like 273 00:16:02,116 --> 00:16:05,636 Speaker 1: taxes and viewership. There is a word for people who 274 00:16:05,676 --> 00:16:08,516 Speaker 1: pay more and more for the same product, and who 275 00:16:08,516 --> 00:16:11,316 Speaker 1: will continue to pay more and more no matter how 276 00:16:11,396 --> 00:16:14,156 Speaker 1: badly it makes them feel. Addict. 277 00:16:17,196 --> 00:16:20,756 Speaker 4: I have spent the better part of three and a 278 00:16:20,836 --> 00:16:24,276 Speaker 4: half decades studying how sports fans cope with losses. 279 00:16:24,996 --> 00:16:28,836 Speaker 1: Professor Dan Wan again, the world's first sports fan researcher. 280 00:16:29,636 --> 00:16:32,396 Speaker 5: All, it's like, give me a little toolbox, give me 281 00:16:32,436 --> 00:16:33,436 Speaker 5: the toolbox for coping. 282 00:16:33,636 --> 00:16:38,116 Speaker 4: Okay, So, first of all, sports fans are great at 283 00:16:38,156 --> 00:16:44,956 Speaker 4: seeing the past through incredibly rose colored glasses. Right, So 284 00:16:46,116 --> 00:16:49,716 Speaker 4: you ask people, okay, ten years ago, how many games 285 00:16:49,716 --> 00:16:50,716 Speaker 4: did your team win? 286 00:16:51,436 --> 00:16:53,716 Speaker 3: They actually will overestimate that. 287 00:16:54,476 --> 00:16:58,076 Speaker 1: Coping strategy Number one for the addict, you ignore the facts, 288 00:16:58,436 --> 00:17:02,476 Speaker 1: you rewrite history, so whatever actually happened becomes what you 289 00:17:02,556 --> 00:17:03,396 Speaker 1: wish had happened. 290 00:17:04,396 --> 00:17:07,556 Speaker 4: They also had a sendency to see the future as 291 00:17:07,596 --> 00:17:10,876 Speaker 4: being prettier than it's probably gonna be. So we like 292 00:17:11,436 --> 00:17:16,516 Speaker 4: construct our reality based on the fact our team's not 293 00:17:16,596 --> 00:17:18,996 Speaker 4: doing well now, but man, it was so great before, 294 00:17:19,036 --> 00:17:19,996 Speaker 4: and man it's gonna. 295 00:17:19,836 --> 00:17:20,836 Speaker 3: Be so great in the future. 296 00:17:21,036 --> 00:17:24,636 Speaker 4: Every crappy NFL team, well, all the fan bases to 297 00:17:24,636 --> 00:17:27,116 Speaker 4: talk about next year's draft. That's what they always talk about, 298 00:17:27,156 --> 00:17:28,356 Speaker 4: because we're gonna have a good pick. 299 00:17:28,876 --> 00:17:33,916 Speaker 1: Coping Strategy Number two and active Fantasy life. Whatever just happened, 300 00:17:34,116 --> 00:17:37,316 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter because it has no bearing on what 301 00:17:37,396 --> 00:17:37,956 Speaker 1: will happen. 302 00:17:38,676 --> 00:17:41,836 Speaker 4: Another thing that fans do is they will find a 303 00:17:41,876 --> 00:17:47,756 Speaker 4: way to move the cause off of the team and 304 00:17:47,876 --> 00:17:49,036 Speaker 4: onto some other entity. 305 00:17:49,476 --> 00:17:51,596 Speaker 3: It was the ref's fault. 306 00:17:52,036 --> 00:17:57,036 Speaker 1: Coping strategy Number three, my personal favorite. We were robbed, 307 00:17:57,796 --> 00:18:02,876 Speaker 1: the game was stolen, rigged. It's all rigged. The fans 308 00:18:02,916 --> 00:18:06,396 Speaker 1: need to believe is so powerful that it warps reality. 309 00:18:06,556 --> 00:18:10,956 Speaker 1: You never need to change your belief, which brings us 310 00:18:10,996 --> 00:18:14,556 Speaker 1: to the weird stuff. Dan loves the weird stuff. 311 00:18:15,556 --> 00:18:19,636 Speaker 3: One person said that his superstition was that when watching 312 00:18:19,676 --> 00:18:22,396 Speaker 3: his favorite team on TV, he had to go up 313 00:18:22,436 --> 00:18:25,076 Speaker 3: to the opposing team's free throw shooter and put his 314 00:18:25,236 --> 00:18:30,316 Speaker 3: hand over that person's eyes to distract him on the TV. 315 00:18:31,516 --> 00:18:32,276 Speaker 3: On the TV. 316 00:18:32,836 --> 00:18:35,356 Speaker 4: This is a person who is getting a master's degree 317 00:18:35,356 --> 00:18:38,036 Speaker 4: from our psychology program. 318 00:18:38,196 --> 00:18:38,676 Speaker 2: Here's the thing. 319 00:18:38,716 --> 00:18:41,196 Speaker 4: Not only I mean I have to rub I have 320 00:18:41,316 --> 00:18:44,756 Speaker 4: to rub my favorite pack of baseball cards on my cat. 321 00:18:44,836 --> 00:18:47,556 Speaker 4: I have to light incense to the Buddha out back. 322 00:18:47,756 --> 00:18:50,276 Speaker 4: We can't let mom in the room because she's bad luck. 323 00:18:50,316 --> 00:18:53,956 Speaker 4: But here's the thing, Michael, here's the thing. We asked 324 00:18:53,996 --> 00:18:57,436 Speaker 4: him on a one to eight scale, one not at 325 00:18:57,516 --> 00:19:02,636 Speaker 4: all eight hundred percent, how convinced are you that your 326 00:19:02,676 --> 00:19:05,836 Speaker 4: superstitions impact the outcome of the sporting event? 327 00:19:06,436 --> 00:19:08,436 Speaker 3: And the average score was about five. 328 00:19:09,156 --> 00:19:13,356 Speaker 4: Think about that. These are educated people, right, and were like, well, 329 00:19:14,156 --> 00:19:16,356 Speaker 4: are you gonna stop? Well, I know it's silly, but 330 00:19:16,436 --> 00:19:17,036 Speaker 4: I still. 331 00:19:16,836 --> 00:19:17,436 Speaker 3: Have to do it. 332 00:19:18,516 --> 00:19:21,916 Speaker 1: This isn't just people doing obviously dumb shit. It's people 333 00:19:22,036 --> 00:19:26,236 Speaker 1: capable of knowing they're doing dumb shit and somehow still 334 00:19:26,276 --> 00:19:27,636 Speaker 1: refusing to know it. 335 00:19:28,436 --> 00:19:31,556 Speaker 3: We had one person he actually did his own study 336 00:19:31,596 --> 00:19:35,076 Speaker 3: with this lucky Saint Louis Cardinals' hat, where he kept 337 00:19:35,116 --> 00:19:36,916 Speaker 3: track for a whole season of how many they won 338 00:19:36,996 --> 00:19:38,676 Speaker 3: when he wore the hat and how many they won 339 00:19:38,756 --> 00:19:39,316 Speaker 3: when he didn't. 340 00:19:39,436 --> 00:19:42,156 Speaker 4: And he showed us this is scientific. Now, this is scientific. 341 00:19:42,316 --> 00:19:44,476 Speaker 4: He showed us how they had a better winning percent. 342 00:19:44,556 --> 00:19:45,636 Speaker 4: So now he asked to wear the. 343 00:19:45,596 --> 00:19:53,836 Speaker 1: Hat, warping reality, blaming others, embracing superstitions, all to cope 344 00:19:53,876 --> 00:19:58,756 Speaker 1: with a very basic situation that you can't control all 345 00:19:58,796 --> 00:20:08,276 Speaker 1: symptoms of fandom. All right, let's get back to Eric 346 00:20:08,316 --> 00:20:10,996 Speaker 1: Simon's the math teacher and science writer who was on 347 00:20:11,076 --> 00:20:14,316 Speaker 1: the Bart train after his team lost, wondering what was 348 00:20:14,356 --> 00:20:17,596 Speaker 1: wrong with him. You established pretty quickly there was not 349 00:20:17,756 --> 00:20:20,956 Speaker 1: some part of your brain that was responsible for this, right, 350 00:20:21,436 --> 00:20:24,996 Speaker 1: It's all your brain. Eric eventually writes an entire book 351 00:20:25,036 --> 00:20:27,076 Speaker 1: about all of this, It's called The Secret Lives of 352 00:20:27,116 --> 00:20:29,716 Speaker 1: Sports Fans. Trying to figure out what's underneath all the 353 00:20:29,716 --> 00:20:34,156 Speaker 1: weird behavior, Eric winds up talking to neurologists and psychologists 354 00:20:34,236 --> 00:20:36,556 Speaker 1: people had learned all kinds of interesting stuff about the 355 00:20:36,636 --> 00:20:39,476 Speaker 1: human brain, but hadn't thought to apply it to the 356 00:20:39,476 --> 00:20:40,636 Speaker 1: brains of sports fans. 357 00:20:42,116 --> 00:20:45,596 Speaker 2: This is what our hormones do when we're working against 358 00:20:45,636 --> 00:20:50,676 Speaker 2: other people. This is what we do when we're in groups. 359 00:20:50,236 --> 00:20:53,756 Speaker 2: It's affecting your judgments. I think people talk about this 360 00:20:53,836 --> 00:20:56,756 Speaker 2: more in a societal context than a sports fan context. 361 00:20:56,756 --> 00:21:01,156 Speaker 2: But like a basic example, there's cameras everywhere, there's slow 362 00:21:01,196 --> 00:21:03,796 Speaker 2: mo instant replay everywhere. Why is it that with like 363 00:21:03,876 --> 00:21:08,196 Speaker 2: nineteen different instant replays people divide, They get more convinced 364 00:21:08,396 --> 00:21:10,796 Speaker 2: I'm right, the other guys are wrong. How can you 365 00:21:10,796 --> 00:21:14,316 Speaker 2: show two people video clips in super slow motion and 366 00:21:14,356 --> 00:21:18,116 Speaker 2: they still disagree about what happened? Is because, like this 367 00:21:18,196 --> 00:21:23,276 Speaker 2: whole enterprise is challenging your perception. It's changing what you see. 368 00:21:25,076 --> 00:21:28,276 Speaker 1: It's changing what you see. So we not only tolerate, 369 00:21:28,436 --> 00:21:32,316 Speaker 1: but actively pursue interests that lead us to warp reality. 370 00:21:32,476 --> 00:21:35,596 Speaker 1: But what purpose does that serve? One answer that Eric 371 00:21:35,636 --> 00:21:38,676 Speaker 1: found had been supplied long ago by a Polish social 372 00:21:38,756 --> 00:21:43,436 Speaker 1: psychologist named Henry Tagfel. Tagfell had his own curious journey 373 00:21:43,476 --> 00:21:44,156 Speaker 1: to the subject. 374 00:21:45,116 --> 00:21:49,076 Speaker 2: He is Jewish in the nineteen twenties. Nineteen thirties, then 375 00:21:49,116 --> 00:21:52,796 Speaker 2: moves to France just before the start of World War Two. 376 00:21:53,276 --> 00:21:56,636 Speaker 2: He volunteers for the French army he has captured. He 377 00:21:56,716 --> 00:21:58,996 Speaker 2: goes home to Poland after the war and finds out 378 00:21:59,036 --> 00:22:01,356 Speaker 2: that most of his friends and family have been killed, 379 00:22:01,996 --> 00:22:05,596 Speaker 2: and this sort of sets him on this course of 380 00:22:05,636 --> 00:22:10,516 Speaker 2: trying to understand why do people do this? Where do 381 00:22:10,876 --> 00:22:15,836 Speaker 2: these divisions in societies come from, Where does prejudice come from? 382 00:22:17,396 --> 00:22:20,556 Speaker 2: Why do people have this ability to turn against each 383 00:22:20,556 --> 00:22:24,436 Speaker 2: other in such a way to stop recognizing each other's humanity. 384 00:22:25,596 --> 00:22:28,676 Speaker 1: Cag Pellat survived the war only because he'd become identified 385 00:22:28,716 --> 00:22:32,156 Speaker 1: with a group to which he didn't really belong French soldiers, 386 00:22:32,716 --> 00:22:36,676 Speaker 1: rather than to the one he did Polish Jews. He 387 00:22:36,716 --> 00:22:39,396 Speaker 1: wanted to study the power of groups, and so he 388 00:22:39,436 --> 00:22:43,996 Speaker 1: started by taking his students and just dividing them in two. 389 00:22:43,156 --> 00:22:46,756 Speaker 2: And one of his principal findings, which is called minimal 390 00:22:46,796 --> 00:22:51,516 Speaker 2: group theory, is that doesn't have to matter the differences 391 00:22:51,556 --> 00:22:54,996 Speaker 2: between the groups, that you could be divided into groups 392 00:22:55,636 --> 00:23:01,076 Speaker 2: incredibly arbitrarily. He divided kids, mostly schoolboys in his studies 393 00:23:01,596 --> 00:23:05,436 Speaker 2: into groups on the basis of flipping a coin, and 394 00:23:05,476 --> 00:23:10,996 Speaker 2: what he found and what collaborators found is that just 395 00:23:11,076 --> 00:23:13,196 Speaker 2: that arbitrary division you guys are over here, you guys 396 00:23:13,196 --> 00:23:17,876 Speaker 2: are over here, is enough to then produce pretty significant 397 00:23:18,556 --> 00:23:20,916 Speaker 2: differences in how those groups behave toward each other. For 398 00:23:20,996 --> 00:23:22,956 Speaker 2: no other reason than we said, you're in that one 399 00:23:22,996 --> 00:23:23,716 Speaker 2: and you're in that one. 400 00:23:24,116 --> 00:23:26,836 Speaker 1: So much shallower than the difference between the Chiefs and 401 00:23:26,876 --> 00:23:27,476 Speaker 1: the Bengals. 402 00:23:27,676 --> 00:23:30,436 Speaker 2: Then yeah, I mean, these were all kids from the 403 00:23:30,436 --> 00:23:33,476 Speaker 2: same school, they're you know, all sort of the same age. 404 00:23:33,556 --> 00:23:37,116 Speaker 2: They are a pretty homogeneous group. You put someone in 405 00:23:37,156 --> 00:23:38,716 Speaker 2: a group and you tell them you're in this group, 406 00:23:38,756 --> 00:23:41,916 Speaker 2: and your identity becomes I'm part of this group. 407 00:23:43,596 --> 00:23:46,596 Speaker 1: This is my place. I belong here with these other 408 00:23:46,636 --> 00:23:50,276 Speaker 1: people like me. That feeling, once I have it is 409 00:23:50,316 --> 00:23:52,716 Speaker 1: so powerful it will cause me to organize all my 410 00:23:52,796 --> 00:23:57,436 Speaker 1: beliefs and perceptions around it. It'll dictate my reality. 411 00:23:58,876 --> 00:24:02,076 Speaker 2: If we all have these sort of biases, you know, 412 00:24:02,116 --> 00:24:06,596 Speaker 2: and you see them expressed so neatly in sports, then 413 00:24:06,636 --> 00:24:08,676 Speaker 2: maybe sports is a way to look at sort of 414 00:24:08,716 --> 00:24:11,396 Speaker 2: slowly unraveling them, which is where I started to look 415 00:24:11,436 --> 00:24:14,316 Speaker 2: at these questions about you know, like why doesn't instant 416 00:24:14,356 --> 00:24:17,476 Speaker 2: replay change anyone's mind? And you know what do you 417 00:24:17,596 --> 00:24:23,316 Speaker 2: need to to like make a friend from across the aisle. 418 00:24:26,836 --> 00:24:30,036 Speaker 2: You know, where where could you find that sort of 419 00:24:30,036 --> 00:24:31,316 Speaker 2: harmonious utopia? 420 00:24:32,436 --> 00:24:36,556 Speaker 1: Not in Philadelphia, But that's why it's. 421 00:24:36,356 --> 00:24:39,196 Speaker 2: So so interesting to look at where where has it 422 00:24:39,236 --> 00:24:42,716 Speaker 2: ever existed? So finding that line, which involves sort of 423 00:24:42,836 --> 00:24:46,956 Speaker 2: changing our own our own perception and changing the perception 424 00:24:46,996 --> 00:24:50,116 Speaker 2: of other people, that sort of that became the big question. 425 00:24:51,276 --> 00:24:54,756 Speaker 1: You'll notice that Eric changed his question. When he started 426 00:24:54,756 --> 00:24:57,716 Speaker 1: he was asking what the hell's wrong with me? By 427 00:24:57,716 --> 00:25:00,596 Speaker 1: the end, he's asking why can't human beings, once they 428 00:25:00,636 --> 00:25:03,156 Speaker 1: identify with some group, see the world as it is 429 00:25:03,316 --> 00:25:06,236 Speaker 1: rather than as they'd like it to be. Why are 430 00:25:06,276 --> 00:25:08,996 Speaker 1: they even less inclined than usual to respond to fact 431 00:25:09,396 --> 00:25:12,516 Speaker 1: and to stats and more inclined to be swayed by 432 00:25:12,516 --> 00:25:16,396 Speaker 1: some story in their heads? Why can't they see that 433 00:25:16,436 --> 00:25:20,956 Speaker 1: the odds are against them? This new question is obviously bigger, 434 00:25:20,996 --> 00:25:24,876 Speaker 1: maybe even better than Eric's original one, but it leaves 435 00:25:24,916 --> 00:25:26,996 Speaker 1: the original one just kind of hanging there. 436 00:25:28,276 --> 00:25:31,916 Speaker 2: I started because I felt like there was something wrong 437 00:25:31,956 --> 00:25:34,196 Speaker 2: with me, and I think I ended up feeling like, well, 438 00:25:34,436 --> 00:25:37,716 Speaker 2: maybe this is more normal than it feels. This is 439 00:25:37,836 --> 00:25:40,436 Speaker 2: just sort of part of being human. That is just 440 00:25:40,516 --> 00:25:43,236 Speaker 2: weird to be a person sometimes, and that sports fans 441 00:25:43,316 --> 00:25:46,276 Speaker 2: is one part of being weird as a person. But 442 00:25:46,356 --> 00:25:48,356 Speaker 2: it has its moments of sweetness, and it has its 443 00:25:48,396 --> 00:25:51,276 Speaker 2: moments of joy as well as it has its moments 444 00:25:51,276 --> 00:25:53,676 Speaker 2: of what the fuck, this is the dumbest thing? Why 445 00:25:53,676 --> 00:25:56,236 Speaker 2: do I do it? And that all that together, I mean, 446 00:25:56,476 --> 00:25:58,956 Speaker 2: that is the package of being alive. And you accept 447 00:25:58,996 --> 00:26:01,916 Speaker 2: it in this context the same way you accepted everywhere else. 448 00:26:02,876 --> 00:26:04,996 Speaker 1: Eric Simons sort of hoped that he might study his 449 00:26:05,076 --> 00:26:08,116 Speaker 1: way out of fandom. He wound up giving up on 450 00:26:08,196 --> 00:26:11,516 Speaker 1: that and just coming to terms with it. There was 451 00:26:11,556 --> 00:26:14,996 Speaker 1: no magic pill to take. There was just this powerful 452 00:26:15,036 --> 00:26:18,796 Speaker 1: force inside him, a force that shapes not just sports 453 00:26:18,836 --> 00:26:21,956 Speaker 1: but lots of other stuff, A force that steam rolls 454 00:26:21,996 --> 00:26:33,556 Speaker 1: over facts in search of feeling. But this powerful force 455 00:26:33,556 --> 00:26:35,836 Speaker 1: that's inside of us. What happens if it can be 456 00:26:35,876 --> 00:26:40,076 Speaker 1: exploited in new ways. What happens if like technology changes, 457 00:26:40,116 --> 00:26:43,836 Speaker 1: their laws change so that it could be monetized, almost 458 00:26:43,876 --> 00:26:47,436 Speaker 1: like a natural resource. What if you can frack the fan? 459 00:26:48,476 --> 00:26:50,636 Speaker 1: That's where we're going with this season against the rules, 460 00:26:50,636 --> 00:26:54,716 Speaker 1: because the fracking it's already happening right under our noses. 461 00:26:58,876 --> 00:27:02,516 Speaker 6: This isn't fantasy as usually, this is Draft Kicks. It 462 00:27:02,596 --> 00:27:04,516 Speaker 6: was one of these things like, wow, we never get 463 00:27:04,516 --> 00:27:06,756 Speaker 6: this lucky. I mean this changed everything. 464 00:27:06,916 --> 00:27:08,516 Speaker 2: Welcome to the big time. 465 00:27:09,196 --> 00:27:10,716 Speaker 1: Turn to him and say, do you know why you 466 00:27:10,716 --> 00:27:15,836 Speaker 1: can do this now? He knew? Regeemed your season on FanDuel, 467 00:27:16,036 --> 00:27:19,356 Speaker 1: play free until you win FanDuel More ways to win. 468 00:27:19,636 --> 00:27:23,036 Speaker 3: Hello, I'm a dinner again and I just placed the 469 00:27:23,116 --> 00:27:24,076 Speaker 3: dumbest bet of my life. 470 00:27:24,316 --> 00:27:35,756 Speaker 7: Get to DraftKings dot com. 471 00:27:35,796 --> 00:27:38,116 Speaker 1: Against the Rules is written and hosted by me Michael 472 00:27:38,196 --> 00:27:42,276 Speaker 1: Lewis and produced by Lydia Genekott, Catherine Gerardeau, and Ariela Markowitz. 473 00:27:42,796 --> 00:27:46,076 Speaker 1: Our editor is Julia Barton. Our engineer is Jake Krski. 474 00:27:46,556 --> 00:27:49,916 Speaker 1: Our music was composed by Matthias Bossi and John Evans 475 00:27:49,916 --> 00:27:53,676 Speaker 1: of stell Wagon Sinfinett. Our fact checker is Lauren Ves 476 00:27:53,676 --> 00:27:57,676 Speaker 1: Polly Against the Rules is a production of Pushkin Industries. 477 00:27:58,556 --> 00:28:02,276 Speaker 1: To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, 478 00:28:02,516 --> 00:28:06,556 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And if 479 00:28:06,596 --> 00:28:08,676 Speaker 1: you'd like to listen to ad free and learn about 480 00:28:08,676 --> 00:28:11,756 Speaker 1: other eclusive offerings, don't forget to sign up for a 481 00:28:11,796 --> 00:28:17,156 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus subscription at pushkin dot fm, slash plus, or 482 00:28:17,196 --> 00:28:20,356 Speaker 1: on our Apple Show page. 483 00:28:24,796 --> 00:28:28,356 Speaker 4: So I went away to cope. Yeah no, seriously, Now, okay, 484 00:28:29,196 --> 00:28:32,396 Speaker 4: I got a story. I got a story for all this. Okay, no, no. 485 00:28:32,196 --> 00:28:33,436 Speaker 3: No, no one. 486 00:28:33,516 --> 00:28:38,316 Speaker 4: Lady said that the night before her football team or 487 00:28:38,356 --> 00:28:41,996 Speaker 4: college football team's games, that for good luck, she makes 488 00:28:42,036 --> 00:28:45,916 Speaker 4: her husband make love to her wearing the team's jersey 489 00:28:46,316 --> 00:28:49,356 Speaker 4: and socks and the team's colors. And ever since I 490 00:28:49,396 --> 00:28:51,556 Speaker 4: read that, I thought, no one looks for the college 491 00:28:51,556 --> 00:28:53,716 Speaker 4: football sus a more than her husband. 492 00:28:53,956 --> 00:28:56,716 Speaker 6: Right, He's like, he's looking for the socks. 493 00:28:58,836 --> 00:28:59,756 Speaker 3: Where did I put those? 494 00:28:59,796 --> 00:29:01,396 Speaker 6: Oh? No, I lost the socks. 495 00:29:01,676 --> 00:29:02,676 Speaker 3: Oh the lucky socks. 496 00:29:02,796 --> 00:29:04,036 Speaker 6: Well one sock, dude. 497 00:29:04,316 --> 00:29:07,076 Speaker 3: No, listen, you wear the lucky socks and you get lucky.