1
00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,440
Speaker 1: Hey, welcome into this edition of All Ball. I'm Doug Gottlieb,

2
00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,040
Speaker 1: and uh listen, I could give you some my take

3
00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:13,840
Speaker 1: on Lebron James, which I'll give you a kind of

4
00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,480
Speaker 1: in short order here. I don't think it's I don't

5
00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,400
Speaker 1: think it's sinister what he did. I don't think it

6
00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,759
Speaker 1: makes him the devil. I don't think it makes him

7
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:24,520
Speaker 1: a bad parent. I also don't think it makes him

8
00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,800
Speaker 1: a good parent. Right Like, there's a different discussion for

9
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,080
Speaker 1: if a guy is a good parent, and if a

10
00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,680
Speaker 1: guy is acting kind of appropriately, I just think it's weird,

11
00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:36,200
Speaker 1: and I get him a little bit of a pass

12
00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,320
Speaker 1: because that's what happens with superstars. Have you ever been

13
00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,160
Speaker 1: around a rock star, a rap star, a movie star,

14
00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:48,440
Speaker 1: basketball player, football player. They're generally weird. They just they

15
00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,160
Speaker 1: reach it like an art artistic threshold to where they're

16
00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,320
Speaker 1: they get so right brain that they don't think like

17
00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:59,440
Speaker 1: you and I do. And one of my best guy player, yeah,

18
00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,360
Speaker 1: I mean I don't. For me, the best player I've

19
00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,000
Speaker 1: played with at Oaklahoma State was Adrian Peterson, but the

20
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,000
Speaker 1: best talent who became the best NBA player, who was

21
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,000
Speaker 1: an incredible athlete, hard workers, desn Mason, and like, I

22
00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,039
Speaker 1: think if I use the word weird with him, it

23
00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,840
Speaker 1: would be unfair. But like, he's an abstract artist, right,

24
00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,920
Speaker 1: and that kind of fits what stars do is they

25
00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,520
Speaker 1: look at the world differently and can see things differently

26
00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,200
Speaker 1: than the rest of us. But dude, I just I

27
00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:27,880
Speaker 1: don't you don't get up and dunk and your kids

28
00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,000
Speaker 1: lay of blinds and you don't come onto the it's

29
00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,200
Speaker 1: not the an one mixtape. It's not it's not all baby,

30
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,000
Speaker 1: all baby do. I think it makes him a horrible

31
00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:42,600
Speaker 1: human being, no, an attention hound tad. But I also think,

32
00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:47,720
Speaker 1: in all honesty, um, it's just it's just weird. It's

33
00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,480
Speaker 1: just weird. We got a great discussion for you. Mike.

34
00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,320
Speaker 1: Boyton is supposed to me by arch enemy, right, he

35
00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,440
Speaker 1: got the Oaklham State job, the one that I wanted,

36
00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,760
Speaker 1: And it turns out he's also actually a really good guy,

37
00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,440
Speaker 1: and it sucks that he's such a good guy, and

38
00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,600
Speaker 1: he's become a good friend of mine, and I thought

39
00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,040
Speaker 1: we'd kind of tell his story a little bit, or

40
00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,079
Speaker 1: let him tell his story a little bit. Obviously, two

41
00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,440
Speaker 1: years ago, they had an unbelievable run late in the

42
00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:14,800
Speaker 1: season they beat West Virginia to beat Kansas on the road.

43
00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,640
Speaker 1: They swept Kansas, and they were America's darling and didn't

44
00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,120
Speaker 1: get in the n c A Tournament this year not

45
00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:26,320
Speaker 1: so much, not so much, but his his story how

46
00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,640
Speaker 1: he got to hear is even more interesting than his

47
00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,160
Speaker 1: team he has now. And the team he has now

48
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:36,679
Speaker 1: I think will be really really good this year, really good. So,

49
00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,880
Speaker 1: without further ado, here's my talk with Oklahoma State head

50
00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,400
Speaker 1: coach Mike Boyden. Al Right, so instead of getting to

51
00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:48,679
Speaker 1: the job now and and you're playing career in South Carolina,

52
00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,680
Speaker 1: you're you're Brooklyn born. But like what there's all different

53
00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:58,120
Speaker 1: parts of Brooklyn. What part of Brooklyn sty a small

54
00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:02,040
Speaker 1: section of Uh. I guess it would be the central

55
00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,239
Speaker 1: part of Brooklyn. And that's why I was born and

56
00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:09,320
Speaker 1: raised bed Style is um that's uh, that's what was

57
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,160
Speaker 1: the What was the was the I read the book

58
00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:13,359
Speaker 1: Heaven as a Playground? Right? That was that was Betty?

59
00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,639
Speaker 1: Did you read that? Absolutely? Absolutely? There's a lot of

60
00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,120
Speaker 1: legend legend about best Scott Brooklyn, some of the best

61
00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:24,040
Speaker 1: players he's ever maybe never heard of actually or from

62
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,000
Speaker 1: bed Style. And then there's a famous rapper Touris b

63
00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:31,080
Speaker 1: Ig was also from bed Stuff. So like, so okay,

64
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,880
Speaker 1: so paint the picture of your childhood. Oh man, it

65
00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,600
Speaker 1: was probably unique and fildways for a kid from Brooklyn.

66
00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,840
Speaker 1: And the fact that unfortunately saying this, especially Metela Lebron talk.

67
00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,280
Speaker 1: I had both of my parents, I had four sisters,

68
00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:48,960
Speaker 1: and and that wasn't really the normal. I grew up

69
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,440
Speaker 1: with a lot of guys. I started playing basketball organized

70
00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,600
Speaker 1: when I was about eight years old and probably only

71
00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:58,800
Speaker 1: play with from the time I was eight to the

72
00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:00,800
Speaker 1: time I was in high school. Would probably play with

73
00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,920
Speaker 1: two other guys who actually had fathers that were active

74
00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,720
Speaker 1: in their lives. So I grew up in an area where,

75
00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,920
Speaker 1: you know, there was a lot of hustling. Basketball was

76
00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,680
Speaker 1: a way out for a lot of us. Um and

77
00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,000
Speaker 1: you know, my parents and my you know, the older

78
00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,320
Speaker 1: people in my neighborhood kind of protecting me from some

79
00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,000
Speaker 1: of the the pitfalls, whether it be you know, getting

80
00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,839
Speaker 1: at drug villain or you know, things of that nature.

81
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,640
Speaker 1: It was pretty um. I was a pretty good student

82
00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,120
Speaker 1: because my parents made it important on neither one of

83
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,599
Speaker 1: them went to college. Uh so it was important that

84
00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,599
Speaker 1: once I had an opportunity, especially to do it for free.

85
00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,480
Speaker 1: That they wanted me to do the things I needed

86
00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,520
Speaker 1: to do in a classroom to make that happen. So

87
00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:45,880
Speaker 1: academics were always really important. Uh and you know from there,

88
00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,000
Speaker 1: you know, back forward to high school basketball. We don't wait,

89
00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,839
Speaker 1: don't don't don't fast forward. You don't fast forward just yet. Okay,

90
00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,359
Speaker 1: So so what would your would your dad do? So

91
00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,800
Speaker 1: my dad was a stop uh work Basically he was

92
00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,279
Speaker 1: a runner for Charle Swap on the New York Stock

93
00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,159
Speaker 1: Exchange Wall Street. And in the middle of all that hustle,

94
00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:11,400
Speaker 1: my mom worked in um and us worked from a

95
00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,840
Speaker 1: merchant a sporting good story called models Pretty Pretty. So

96
00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:17,200
Speaker 1: you had all the good you had all the good year,

97
00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:21,400
Speaker 1: I'm hoping, man, you know they first of all, the

98
00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,520
Speaker 1: game was okay, right, It wasn't like like now we

99
00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,159
Speaker 1: get took two different color ways of one shoe. But

100
00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,719
Speaker 1: every now and then my mom was got good enough

101
00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,120
Speaker 1: grades would surprised me when something came out on the

102
00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,599
Speaker 1: Saturday morning. She'd keep a pair of side So I

103
00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,520
Speaker 1: remember vividly it was like nineties seven, or maybe it

104
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,919
Speaker 1: was being one of the first kids with their foam

105
00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:48,480
Speaker 1: posits that wore the gray ones, sure, terrible shoes to

106
00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:53,040
Speaker 1: play and very cool but terrible to play. And I

107
00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:58,680
Speaker 1: felt like phone posits are so heavy shot. Um okay,

108
00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,120
Speaker 1: so the play gun you grew up playing at was

109
00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,840
Speaker 1: what we played all over, man. We were proud of

110
00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:07,760
Speaker 1: young guys who went to every park. I played at

111
00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,120
Speaker 1: Brown's real recreational most of the time, but so also

112
00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,400
Speaker 1: with the Tillery Park you went too. On the whole

113
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,800
Speaker 1: was for both him Brooklyn and you play that probably

114
00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,320
Speaker 1: any number of parks between your home and your school.

115
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,280
Speaker 1: Uh where. I went to PS three or eight for

116
00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,240
Speaker 1: my first seven years of elementary and then I actually

117
00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,640
Speaker 1: was heard it for the first time as the seventh

118
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:33,159
Speaker 1: grader to another elementary school, um in Harlem as a

119
00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,080
Speaker 1: matter of fact, and went to a school called Mount

120
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:39,080
Speaker 1: Carmel for my eighth grade year, and we played on

121
00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,000
Speaker 1: the team with seven other guys who played Division one

122
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,200
Speaker 1: basketball as an eighth grader. Okay, wait, wait, wait, so

123
00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,360
Speaker 1: why did you go to Harlem? Like like for anybody

124
00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,520
Speaker 1: who understands the the just logistics of it, did you

125
00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,960
Speaker 1: get a subway every day to go to Harlem, walked

126
00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,760
Speaker 1: to the train, took two trains and a bus to school,

127
00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,440
Speaker 1: took a bus and two trains home every day for

128
00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,760
Speaker 1: my eighth grade year. School. But why I mean was

129
00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,000
Speaker 1: it was it because of who basketball? It was because

130
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,080
Speaker 1: of who's It was because of who's so, who looked,

131
00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,800
Speaker 1: who hooked you up? Like how did you who come

132
00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:13,520
Speaker 1: to see me? Kind of in the middle, like the

133
00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,240
Speaker 1: youth leagues when I was in fifth and sixth grade,

134
00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,240
Speaker 1: I actually got recruited to go there my seventh grade year.

135
00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,000
Speaker 1: I wasn't really sure. I wanted to leave Brooklyn and

136
00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,240
Speaker 1: some of the friends I had. But once I decided

137
00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,400
Speaker 1: that I knew with high school I wanted to go to,

138
00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:33,800
Speaker 1: which is Buschi Blackman, pretty predominant basketball program in Brooklyn,

139
00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,160
Speaker 1: I knew I wanted to start preparing myself to play

140
00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,800
Speaker 1: against great competition every day. So at twelve years old Man,

141
00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,440
Speaker 1: I started getting on the train and bust every day

142
00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,400
Speaker 1: to go to school. I had a great experience. A

143
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,679
Speaker 1: couple of names you may remember, Tremaine Singletary, uh Pieter

144
00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,400
Speaker 1: Mulligan who actually went on to have a really good career,

145
00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:59,040
Speaker 1: Andre Barrett, Seton hall Um cop cost who played at St. John's.

146
00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,760
Speaker 1: We were all on on a cree team together, you know,

147
00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,000
Speaker 1: we we did not lose the game that year, which

148
00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,560
Speaker 1: I'm still very proud of, and that kind of spread

149
00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,880
Speaker 1: me onto my high school career. Okay, what what are you? Program?

150
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,480
Speaker 1: Played for Riverside Church so really um, one of the

151
00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:21,760
Speaker 1: original you know true, I guess stacked AU teams. It was.

152
00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,239
Speaker 1: It was back in the day before there were fifteen

153
00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,600
Speaker 1: AU teams in every city. They were they were Riverside

154
00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,080
Speaker 1: Church Hawks, and there was a New York gut Shops

155
00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,160
Speaker 1: and you played for one or the other. So there's

156
00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:35,920
Speaker 1: many good players as was coming out of New York

157
00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,400
Speaker 1: City at the time. Both of us had had really

158
00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:42,280
Speaker 1: really good teams. Um. Okay, now we can fast forward

159
00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:47,360
Speaker 1: to high school. What what was your high school experience? Like? Oh, phenomenon.

160
00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,400
Speaker 1: So I went to Bishop Blackman, like I talked about, UM,

161
00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,920
Speaker 1: because I knew one of the assistant coaches for the

162
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,480
Speaker 1: varsity program there, who was my mentor, Kenny Putlow. I

163
00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:59,680
Speaker 1: was exposed to that program probably from the time I

164
00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,000
Speaker 1: was in at the sixth grade. I would go to

165
00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,160
Speaker 1: their practices, I would go to their games. Uh. Sometimes

166
00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,000
Speaker 1: I've even practiced with the guy. So I had a

167
00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,400
Speaker 1: lot of familiarity with the people at the school. But

168
00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,000
Speaker 1: when I got there, my experience was unbelievable. I played

169
00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,240
Speaker 1: JV basketball as a freshman in high school UM and

170
00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,360
Speaker 1: had a great experience. It wasn't good enough to play

171
00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:22,559
Speaker 1: on the varsity team. Then that team had had just

172
00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,319
Speaker 1: graduated Seldon Jefferson, who had a great career at West

173
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,599
Speaker 1: Virginia UM. My freshman years the doors on varsity with

174
00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,920
Speaker 1: Brian Brown and Will Dudley who both played at Ohio State.

175
00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:35,880
Speaker 1: Cut Strong, who's the all time and even rebound at

176
00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:37,520
Speaker 1: my high school, who actually went on to have a

177
00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,920
Speaker 1: really good career at Loyal in Maryland, UM. And so

178
00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,200
Speaker 1: as a freshman I played JV. I was able to

179
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,439
Speaker 1: be good enough, I guess as a sophomore to move

180
00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,800
Speaker 1: up to varsity played for a legendary coach named Bob Lucky,

181
00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,679
Speaker 1: who's still a pretty strong figure in youth basketball New

182
00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,360
Speaker 1: York City. Now, what was what was Can you mentioned

183
00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:00,440
Speaker 1: Kenny Petlos your your your mentor? Um? Yeah? What was

184
00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,000
Speaker 1: he like with you? Like? Because because again you know,

185
00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,240
Speaker 1: my my experience is and my dad was was the

186
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,360
Speaker 1: guy who took me around southern California. He coached my

187
00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,920
Speaker 1: AU teams and there were a couple other coaches along

188
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,160
Speaker 1: the way, but like, you know, like I experienced much

189
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:19,440
Speaker 1: of my high school life like in his buick, listened

190
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,840
Speaker 1: to his music, or with dudes from all over the

191
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:25,600
Speaker 1: country or all over southern California. Uh, what was your

192
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,640
Speaker 1: in Kenny's relationship? Like man? So I actually met Kenny

193
00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,200
Speaker 1: Prettlow when I was about seven years old. I went

194
00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:37,840
Speaker 1: with an older cousin of mine who after school basketball

195
00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,280
Speaker 1: experience or whatever it was. And I was just kind

196
00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,440
Speaker 1: of the little cousin sitting off to the side. But

197
00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,520
Speaker 1: I was pretty tall. I mean I was one of

198
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,599
Speaker 1: the taller you know, I don't know. I was in

199
00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,120
Speaker 1: maybe second or third grade at the time. And uh

200
00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,240
Speaker 1: remember Kenny Pretlow coming up to me asking me afterwards

201
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,200
Speaker 1: if I like basketball, and I said, yeah, the actually

202
00:10:58,200 --> 00:10:59,920
Speaker 1: five A played and I told him I only played

203
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,000
Speaker 1: when I go to the park of my dad. Uh

204
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,480
Speaker 1: he said, would your mom let you play on the team?

205
00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,800
Speaker 1: And I remember, like I don't know, he actually drove

206
00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:09,800
Speaker 1: me in my comping home that day to ask my

207
00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,559
Speaker 1: mom if she would be okay with me coming back

208
00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:14,640
Speaker 1: to go to the after school program to be a

209
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,320
Speaker 1: part of the team. So Kenny started pointing into my

210
00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,120
Speaker 1: life when I was really, really young, and we still

211
00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,520
Speaker 1: have a tremendous relationship to this day. But he if you,

212
00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,640
Speaker 1: if you talk about being discovered, he would be the

213
00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,240
Speaker 1: first coach that I really ever had that saw something

214
00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,880
Speaker 1: in me that thought I could maybe you know, at

215
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,160
Speaker 1: least beginning as a shouting an eight year old to

216
00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,320
Speaker 1: play on a you know, elementary school team, but from them, man,

217
00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,080
Speaker 1: I just developed a great relationship with him. So Kenny

218
00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,760
Speaker 1: worked in Riverside Church. Erney Launch was the founder of

219
00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,720
Speaker 1: that program, and he was the guy in Brooklyn because

220
00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,760
Speaker 1: Riverside churches in Harlem, so he was the guy for

221
00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,800
Speaker 1: contact for all the kids in Brooklyn and would make

222
00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,320
Speaker 1: sure we got the practices and games and things like that.

223
00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,160
Speaker 1: And I remember Kenny drove probably this was in uh

224
00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:04,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna gets this in late eighties, so maybe nineteen

225
00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:09,520
Speaker 1: ninety and Kenney Prelo drive a standard like Buick four

226
00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:13,200
Speaker 1: door car and he would pile seven their eight dings

227
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,120
Speaker 1: and just driving around to different places in the city

228
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,160
Speaker 1: to play. Uh. You know, we never thought anything else.

229
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,319
Speaker 1: You know, we just love who and we loved each other.

230
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,160
Speaker 1: Kenny was doing this all We didn't have to pay anything, um,

231
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:26,840
Speaker 1: and so we had a great time doing it. So

232
00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,480
Speaker 1: I'm very thankful for him kind of saying something to

233
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,160
Speaker 1: me that that kind of spared me on for the

234
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:35,440
Speaker 1: rest of my life. Your favorite basketball player growing up? With?

235
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:40,719
Speaker 1: Who my favorite player grown up? I had? I had

236
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,199
Speaker 1: several From a from a professional standpoint, I was in

237
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,959
Speaker 1: Knicks fan, uh, so I really admired John Starks and

238
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:52,080
Speaker 1: Anthony Mason and Charles Popley, but I still was an

239
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,400
Speaker 1: MJ fan. I mean, I loved the way he played,

240
00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:58,600
Speaker 1: the flair, the dominance, the competitiveness, but guys that I

241
00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,120
Speaker 1: didn't feel connected to those guys, you know, and I

242
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,080
Speaker 1: really didn't see myself as an NBA player this abid

243
00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,760
Speaker 1: at the highest level. But I did grow up in

244
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,000
Speaker 1: the era where Jamal Mashburn was a pretty big figure

245
00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,560
Speaker 1: in New York City, you know, in the early nineties,

246
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,960
Speaker 1: late eighties, So he was somebody I really really looked

247
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,199
Speaker 1: up to. In fact, uh and he was the reason

248
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,120
Speaker 1: I actually became a Kentucky fan as a young guy,

249
00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:23,960
Speaker 1: because I watched the mask Burn from the Bronx go

250
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,680
Speaker 1: to Kentucky have great successes, get drafted. Um. And then

251
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,080
Speaker 1: I also became a Potento fan because the New York

252
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,040
Speaker 1: guy he coached Kentucky, then he coached next So those

253
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,800
Speaker 1: will be the guys that I probably looked up to

254
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:37,840
Speaker 1: the most. But I meant I was around so many

255
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,760
Speaker 1: great players. I mean from Elton brand to run or

256
00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,079
Speaker 1: Test to Lamar oldam Um, two guys again that you

257
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,000
Speaker 1: may have never even heard of, in the act of

258
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,680
Speaker 1: Shelton Jefferson, who went to my high school with Brian Brown,

259
00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,199
Speaker 1: you know. And then I played against high level competition. Uh.

260
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,480
Speaker 1: In fact, in my senior year in high school in

261
00:13:55,559 --> 00:14:01,920
Speaker 1: New York City, Rice was loaded, right, Vice is loaded

262
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:06,839
Speaker 1: Anthony and then sat Rai's had st Raises Julius Hodge right,

263
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,520
Speaker 1: so st Ray said Julius Howes and Rice had like

264
00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,679
Speaker 1: four dudes. They have a jested map. I mean, there

265
00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,000
Speaker 1: was just talent all over New York City at the time,

266
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:17,719
Speaker 1: the guys that were going on and having a good

267
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,000
Speaker 1: career in college. And my senior year, which is two thousand,

268
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:26,000
Speaker 1: there were three McDonald all American point guards from New

269
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:30,400
Speaker 1: York City. So three guys in one city who played

270
00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,000
Speaker 1: the same position all became in gowns on Earth. That

271
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,760
Speaker 1: was my competition growing up, and it's probably the reason

272
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:37,840
Speaker 1: that I've always had to fight a little bit harder.

273
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,480
Speaker 1: Wasn't as talented as those dudes. It still thought that

274
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,360
Speaker 1: I could achieve at least close to the same levels

275
00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:48,600
Speaker 1: they could. The three guys were what Andre Barrett who

276
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:50,880
Speaker 1: went to Rice High School and then went on to

277
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:56,120
Speaker 1: have a really good career, Seting Hall, Click Brown who St. St.

278
00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:01,080
Speaker 1: John's Prep. Yeah. St. John's Prep. So John Spratt and

279
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,080
Speaker 1: Omar Cook who went to Christ the King. Um arguably

280
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,520
Speaker 1: one of the best. He's the best passion I've ever seen,

281
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,520
Speaker 1: no disrespect. Does then watch you play a ton um

282
00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,200
Speaker 1: but still playing I mean this is he left college,

283
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,200
Speaker 1: he left St. John's, got this especial year, which would

284
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,720
Speaker 1: have been in two thousand one. UM's still playing professional basketball.

285
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,760
Speaker 1: So those three guys that was you know, those are

286
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,440
Speaker 1: my That was my competition and if I wanted to

287
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,080
Speaker 1: do something with the game, I had to prove that

288
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,800
Speaker 1: I could at least compete with those dudes every day.

289
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,880
Speaker 1: But those are still, you know, really good friends of mine.

290
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,000
Speaker 1: You were and you were known as Steady Mic at

291
00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,320
Speaker 1: the time. Who who's that just I need you to be?

292
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,880
Speaker 1: Who gave you that nickname. So there's a big event

293
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,080
Speaker 1: named I s A. It's a it's a local tournament

294
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,920
Speaker 1: and Queen's literally at A had a middle school gym

295
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:54,720
Speaker 1: that maybe or the good days to two hundreds, and um,

296
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,520
Speaker 1: you know you're going there and you either can't play

297
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,080
Speaker 1: or you can't. There's no high you don't come in

298
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 1: ranked and people care. You get on the court and

299
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,960
Speaker 1: you can play or you can't and you get called

300
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,040
Speaker 1: out for it either way. So I was a guy

301
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:10,560
Speaker 1: who I didn't have a whole lot of flash, just

302
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,000
Speaker 1: efficient got the ball. Yeah, dr ballwain needs to go.

303
00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:15,760
Speaker 1: Made an open shot when I needed to defend it

304
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,920
Speaker 1: really hard, was unselfish and uh you know because of that,

305
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:21,520
Speaker 1: that's what you know. Pete kind of gave me the

306
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:25,200
Speaker 1: name study might exact a quick store. So the last

307
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:29,400
Speaker 1: time I played in I say, um omar the league

308
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:35,280
Speaker 1: and Andre all played together on a coolon against the

309
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,000
Speaker 1: team that I was playing with. Now I had some

310
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,720
Speaker 1: really good players, um, and we actually beat them in

311
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:42,480
Speaker 1: the championship game and I was the NVP. So that's

312
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,080
Speaker 1: my claiming thing. There were three McDonalds on me, but

313
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,080
Speaker 1: the one time they teamed up and played against me,

314
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,160
Speaker 1: I won, and I walked away with the hardwin. Oh no,

315
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:51,640
Speaker 1: no question, because you know they were all doing their

316
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,320
Speaker 1: the they're all doing their in one mixtape thing and

317
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,760
Speaker 1: uh okay. So now now here comes the big question,

318
00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,440
Speaker 1: how the hell did you get to South Carolina? Because now, look,

319
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,320
Speaker 1: I know the history Frank McGuire and bringing New York

320
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,080
Speaker 1: City guys down, but like that was a long that

321
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,120
Speaker 1: was about I mean, that was a long time ago.

322
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,199
Speaker 1: Um so how did how did you? How did how

323
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,080
Speaker 1: did become South Carolina? Like how did you get out

324
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,639
Speaker 1: of the Big East? And I'll be honest, I'm not

325
00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,119
Speaker 1: sure that had any really doesn't have anything to do

326
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,560
Speaker 1: with me, and it really wasn't even talk about in

327
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,800
Speaker 1: my recruitment as much. I learned about that more than

328
00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,520
Speaker 1: I was after I committed and started doing more research.

329
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,000
Speaker 1: And then obviously once you're there, I knew who coach

330
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,040
Speaker 1: from Quai was, but I didn't really know the history

331
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,120
Speaker 1: of all the great players in New York City who

332
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,960
Speaker 1: gone there. I was really recruited because in the late

333
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:46,720
Speaker 1: nineties they were playing three good guards together, Larry Davis,

334
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,280
Speaker 1: Melvin Watson, and b J. MACKI might have been your

335
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,960
Speaker 1: class or maybe the year before b J mckew is

336
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:53,680
Speaker 1: my class. Yeah, b J mckew was my class, but

337
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,240
Speaker 1: then remembers my class. And then I transferred out of

338
00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,360
Speaker 1: Notre Dame, so I sat out a year. So then

339
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:04,600
Speaker 1: I beat two. Yeah, so those guys um well kind

340
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,120
Speaker 1: of the three headed monster. And coach Foegler, who had

341
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,000
Speaker 1: been an assistant coach at North Carolina and then went

342
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,760
Speaker 1: to which I stayed many in South Carolina, was also

343
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,280
Speaker 1: from New York City and always desired to go back

344
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,080
Speaker 1: to the recruit you know, smart, tough, you know, point

345
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,800
Speaker 1: guards who kind of he he thought could play the

346
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,240
Speaker 1: Carolina way, you know North Carolina on the way he

347
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,560
Speaker 1: knew came in recruiting me. In fact, Rick Callahan was

348
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,280
Speaker 1: my primary primary recruiter and John Cooper did some some

349
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,640
Speaker 1: legwork on the dog as well, but dating on him

350
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:42,080
Speaker 1: and just I just had an unbelievable feel for his genuineness.

351
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,080
Speaker 1: Um and as you get older, you have more of

352
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,560
Speaker 1: appreciation for people who are really honest and coached. Folgo

353
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,040
Speaker 1: I felt was the most honest person that I connected

354
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,520
Speaker 1: with in my recruitment, not that anybody else is dishonest.

355
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,639
Speaker 1: I just felt the connection with him that he was

356
00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:01,520
Speaker 1: being truth truthful about what my experience would be there. Um.

357
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:06,000
Speaker 1: So you know I visited you Mask Hall Boston College

358
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,879
Speaker 1: in South Carolina and they all ultimately committed to go

359
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,560
Speaker 1: to South Carolina. That's that's a that's a that's there's

360
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:16,480
Speaker 1: an amazing uh juxtaposition in schools, right because if you've

361
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,520
Speaker 1: been like you now you Masses, you Messes a college town,

362
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,000
Speaker 1: it's up at Amherst, right, and if you visit the Fall,

363
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,680
Speaker 1: it's very pretty. Um, you know, Boston College is outside

364
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,280
Speaker 1: of Boston right in Chestnut Hills, really nice, small though

365
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 1: and private and Catholic, right and then Seen Hall is

366
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,120
Speaker 1: right there in an East Orange and probably felt more

367
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,400
Speaker 1: like something. And then South Carolina is state capital, southern

368
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:46,640
Speaker 1: college town, very very different. Um, you go. So I'd

369
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,399
Speaker 1: have to imagine like your first year had to be

370
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,200
Speaker 1: a trip like because for me my first year, I

371
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,120
Speaker 1: was a Notre Dame. It's in the Midwest, it's Catholic.

372
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 1: I was a public school guy. You know, like some

373
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:58,280
Speaker 1: of the parts. I like some of the parts I

374
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,840
Speaker 1: didn't like. What was it like at South Carolina? For

375
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 1: a kid? It was tough. I convinced myself that that

376
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,359
Speaker 1: I wanted to get away. I didn't really think about

377
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 1: the cultural differences because you only know what you know.

378
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,520
Speaker 1: And although I traveled a lot. I've been at Tires twice,

379
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,200
Speaker 1: and I played in basketball a lot of different places,

380
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,119
Speaker 1: I never stayed anywhere like permanent, you know, And so

381
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,280
Speaker 1: when you go to college, you're there. So I still remember,

382
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 1: like yesterday, when my parents first left campus on a

383
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,880
Speaker 1: Saturday night, my first couple of days, I was really uncomfortable.

384
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 1: I didn't really know anybody. My teammates were all comfortable.

385
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,720
Speaker 1: They had established frames. And I'm not necessarily a matraverted,

386
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,720
Speaker 1: probably more extroverted now than I was, you know, many

387
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 1: years ago. Um, but I still remember just feeling like, man,

388
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 1: this just doesn't steel good to be here. And first

389
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 1: of all, I go outside at you know, seven thirty

390
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 1: after dinner, and no one's outside, nobody's playing ball, no

391
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,280
Speaker 1: one shooting dies, no one talking, one joking on each other,

392
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 1: there's no rap bottles going on gonna you know, I mean,

393
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 1: just stuff that I was just accustomed to being around,

394
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,960
Speaker 1: you know, not necessarily I took part in all of it,

395
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 1: but just feeling like the city was lively and there

396
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,359
Speaker 1: was always things going on um. But so it took

397
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 1: me probably about three months, and I probably I would say,

398
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 1: I didn't really get comfortable again until the season started,

399
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 1: where I felt like things were normal again and I

400
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,120
Speaker 1: was just hooping and I was with my teammates every

401
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,360
Speaker 1: day and we're going to practice. But I remember, like yesterday,

402
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 1: getting in my car after a preseason workout on like

403
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 1: a Thursday and coaches gave us off the weekend and

404
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 1: getting in my car like six o'clock and driving through

405
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,400
Speaker 1: the night to go back to Brooklyn. I got need

406
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,199
Speaker 1: to get back to the city. And I pulled up

407
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 1: and too how parents, uh apartment or whatever you like,

408
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: you know, four in the morning and next day and

409
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 1: my mom looked at me like, if you ever do

410
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 1: this again, we're gonna have a serious conversation because she

411
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 1: did not want me, hey, driving home in the middle

412
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,119
Speaker 1: of night, but also see him want me back in

413
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,879
Speaker 1: the city. She was I should have been off the

414
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 1: school doing doing things that she sent me to do.

415
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 1: You mentioned how how honest Eddie Fogler was and how

416
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,199
Speaker 1: um earnest he felt he was. Did you know he

417
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,439
Speaker 1: was going to retire after your fresh freshman season? No,

418
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 1: And it's interesting because you know, I felt I felt

419
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 1: like so my freshman year didn't play ton up, I

420
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: wasn't good enough to play. I mean, I know that now,

421
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 1: probably didn't realize that as much then, but I felt

422
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,919
Speaker 1: good about him, and I felt good about my development

423
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 1: under his watch. Where I remember at the end of

424
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 1: the season. Um, it was actually right after that CEC tournament.

425
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: Coach Fogler casts a meeting on that Sunday night, and

426
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 1: I don't think we thought we were making the tournament,

427
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 1: but I think we thought we were making the n

428
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 1: i C. So I just thought we were meeting about

429
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 1: you know who we're gonna be playing next, and on

430
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,679
Speaker 1: the whole the head of the night before you know stuff,

431
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: because I was gonna match up with you can and

432
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:54,239
Speaker 1: because sing and great. Guess maybe some people who come

433
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 1: watch me and stories Connecticut from the Brooklyn But um,

434
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 1: it wasn't. Coach Foglo actually had announced his retirement or

435
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 1: told our a d that he was walking away. Um,

436
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: and that was a shock to all of us. Um.

437
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was somber because the way

438
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: coach delivered it, uh that it was felt it was

439
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: new schoo felt like it was just the right time.

440
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: He and his a d started made me button heads

441
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 1: a little bit too much. He didn't really want to start.

442
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 1: He saw kind of the change in the way things

443
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 1: were being done on a recruiting side, didn't want to

444
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 1: necessarily do some of those things anymore. And so, um,

445
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,880
Speaker 1: but as I thought about, you know, immediately he thought,

446
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 1: my man, I could have went somewhere else if I

447
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: knew coaches and leave, well you mask a fire brus

448
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: Flint who recruited mem Yeah. Um, Jay Wright who was

449
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: at Hospita left to go to build Nova, and Tommy

450
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: Everca went to Michigan. Um. Okay, So before we get

451
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 1: to to to play for Dave Odom, which ultimately ended

452
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 1: up in uh the n A tournament appearance your senior year,

453
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 1: what was it like to lose? You mentioned eighth grade.

454
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 1: Didn't lose a game, you wouldn't have been all city. Like,

455
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys want to see a champe,

456
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: but you would have been all City unless you guys won.

457
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 1: You know. So I'm like, this was this was what

458
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 1: I went through a Notre Dame. I've never been on

459
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 1: a bad team before. I'd never been on a bad team.

460
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 1: Point we were just not good enough. We were young,

461
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: and we were Notre Dame, and we were too slow

462
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,199
Speaker 1: and not and the Big East was loaded. And it

463
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: was as much as being across the country in a

464
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 1: different environment that I wasn't used to was hard. It

465
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: was also really really hard to lose. What was that like?

466
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 1: It was? It was incredibly frustrating because and this is

467
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 1: gonna sound like total fabrication, but my dad probably still

468
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: hasn't tased to prove it. From the time I started

469
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 1: playing basketball eight years old, I did not lose a

470
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: game until after I graduated from eighth grade. So I

471
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: went like four and a half years of playing basketball

472
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,360
Speaker 1: without ever experiencing what Moses was like. In fact, wait

473
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: wait wait, wait wait wait, you never lost like like

474
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: wait wait in six and seventh eighth grade, like you

475
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: never like you lost a game in school or in

476
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 1: like you know, the tournaments that we won every We

477
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: won every tournament. So we lose the tournament. We lose

478
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: for the first time the summer of I guess it's

479
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 1: nineties six. I'm going into my freshman in high school

480
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: the summer event, and I come home and tell my

481
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: dad I don't want to play basketball. Anymore. That was

482
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 1: my reaction, I swear, and He's like, Okay, first of all,

483
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: if you don't want to play, you're on this team

484
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 1: and you're gonna finish the season. And then if you

485
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 1: don't want to play, I'm not gonna make you. You're

486
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: gonna go tell your coach and your teammates that you're

487
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: not gonna play with the people. And I was like, oh, yeah,

488
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 1: I'm probably got under that. I'm probably not gonna tell

489
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: him I quick. So I kept playing. That's that's okay.

490
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 1: So so now you're now you're in South Carolina and

491
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: look almost yes, my sister year. You know, we're just okay.

492
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: And I'm not necessarily involved. I'm not the man by

493
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 1: any stretch. I'm barely a backup. Uh. And frustrating just

494
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: I don't understand why I'm not playing more, you know.

495
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 1: And so yeah, it was frustrating. It was hard to understand,

496
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: you know, to to move once the next thing. You

497
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: got to prepare the same way for the next game

498
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 1: as you do for the last. Uh. And it's incredibly

499
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: incredible highs and lows and college basketball. We got up

500
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 1: to a good start, you know, my freshman year, you know,

501
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: probably there wasn't on these preseason events, so I don't

502
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: think we were in one at all. So we we

503
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: probably started like nine in two or something like that,

504
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: and we win on my first ever SEC game, we

505
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: played Florida home a kid named Travis Kraft hits a

506
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: shot at the buzzer after not playing the whole game

507
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: to beat Florida in two dozen one, and I'm thinking like, man,

508
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: this is cool. It's like the best thing I could

509
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: ever imagine. And then we go on to maybe one

510
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: like six games and you like six and ten. So

511
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: it was hard, and then it becomes more complicated when

512
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 1: you think that, right, this is my chance to step up.

513
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: And I got a new coach coming in who didn't

514
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 1: recruit me, Mabe doesn't value the same things coach Polo

515
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: did um and so it was it was a challenge

516
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: and transition. So what was that like, you know, like,

517
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 1: did you your your first meeting with dav Oden? What

518
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: was the team setting? Did you call you in? Like

519
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: how did how did it work? Team setting? And you

520
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 1: know this before social media, so there was literally just talk.

521
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: There wasn't any this guy was you know room attack

522
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: been on his campus or these are the people. In fact,

523
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 1: people thought that um Tubby Smith, who was the coach

524
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: at Kentucky, I'm crazy to sound he was the coach

525
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: at Kentucky at the time, what's going to leave there

526
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: to come to coach in South Carolina because he was

527
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: an assistant there, you know, like a decade before. He's

528
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: from North Carolina and they thought they could get him there. Obviously,

529
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: we don't want up Tubby and Coach Oldam comes in

530
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: and Yo, the very first meeting, he's like, well, you

531
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: guys didn't pick me, but this is kind of the

532
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 1: way things is gonna go. Come here. We want to

533
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: be athletic, we want to be fast. I've coached in

534
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: the exec you know, I know what it takes to

535
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: have success. And some of us are looking around, like

536
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 1: what does that mean for me? You know what I mean,

537
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying, coach, but you didn't say

538
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: anything about me. Coach probly recruited me and said all

539
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: the things that he was going to do to help me.

540
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: Uh So it took a little while and on his

541
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: staff Frank Hayt had come in with him from Wake

542
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 1: and I started, I mean I may have met with

543
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: coach Hayes and the week he was there, more than

544
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: I even met with coach hot I may have talked

545
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: to coach Holden once. Uh. And then a week later

546
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: Frank Keith leaves and goes to be an assistant at Texas. Yeah,

547
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: and so it was, you know, you just kind of

548
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: you don't understand it nineteen years old, like there's a

549
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: business side of this thing. Um. But obviously I appreciate

550
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: all that stuff even more now. But I was just okay.

551
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: Coach brought us some other guys and we had more

552
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: success my sophomore year than we did my freshman year.

553
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: We still went to the n I T, but we

554
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: actually almost wanted We lost in the championship game to

555
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: Memphis h Cow's team with Dawan Wagner and two thousand two,

556
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: and uh, I felt like, you know, all right, now

557
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: it is the time to step up at two guys

558
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: who were senior point guards ahead of meet thought I

559
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: could kind of transition to being a starter. Um. And

560
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: it actually wanted to be in my worst year of

561
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: my career, my junior in college. It's interesting because you

562
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: were behind Aaron Lucas, who was not he wasn't just

563
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: a South Carolina kid. He was like a Columbia South

564
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: Carolina kid, which is I mean, that's that's hard, right,

565
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: Like you're like, yo, I'm steady Mike from Brooklyn. I'm

566
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: all city. They're like, we never heard of you or

567
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: in South Carolina. Like this is before like you said,

568
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: social media, no one even knew And um, I didn't

569
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: experience this as much ocums Like when I got there,

570
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: there was this the last year who transferred out in

571
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: Joe Atkins. But like you know, Oklahoma did Peton fans

572
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: knew Oklahoma kids, so they didn't care really what you

573
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: did beforehand, you know they did. It's a different one.

574
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: So why why was your junior year so frustrating? This

575
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: Because I think my my mindset changed. Those guys are

576
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: gone now it's my time, and uh, I put it

577
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: on myself. I probably didn't work as hard as I

578
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: could have that year to prove that I deserved to

579
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: play more. Uh. And you know, truthfully, we had poor

580
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: internal leadership. It's one of the things I stressed so

581
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: much now is uh. You know, we had a couple

582
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: of singers who were totally bought into just becoming pros

583
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: and what the year was going to be like for them. Um,

584
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: and so it was really really frustrated. We actually want

585
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: to finish the dead last. I think we were twelve

586
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: and sixteen that year. We had four singers, and you know,

587
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: it was just a really really poor experience, and I

588
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: didn't do anything to help myself. I actually stopped being

589
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: as focused and maybe than I could have been in

590
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: like Sky Report film sessions. And you know, I was

591
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: never disrespectful or anything, you know, outright wrong, but I

592
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: definitely didn't have the focus that I needed to to

593
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: be able to help our program. So what change your senior?

594
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: Because you're senior, you had a great year the average

595
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: Like in a game, you know, they brought in Tray Kelly,

596
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: but you know you didn't. You know, you guys played

597
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: together some he backed you up. Um, I know the

598
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: RONALDA balk but I think yeah. So I and Dave

599
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: Otam actually met with me after that season and say, hey, listen,

600
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: I think you're a good kid. You have some talent.

601
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: You're not gonna play next year. We gotta set. We've

602
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: got this kid Tide from d C who's terrific and

603
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: he's going to be our start point guard next year.

604
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: And I just kind of not in my head kind

605
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: of like you know what, no one's ever told me

606
00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: that you suck basically, you know, and you're not good

607
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: enough to play and soil you're not so just you know,

608
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: you could stay in scholarship and graduate and uh that

609
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: was after that was probably in marsh or April after

610
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: my junior year. So going into the off season for

611
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: my senior year, and I and be perfectly honest, I

612
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: just worked harder than I had ever worked in my life.

613
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: I met with our strength conditioning coach every single day.

614
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: I changed my body. I went from I think thirteen

615
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: percent body fat and went about probably one ninety six

616
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: one seven to like four and a half percent body

617
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 1: fat and laying like one eight nine. So it really

618
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: toned up, got the best shape of my life. And

619
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: was just determined that I was gonna Hey, proved that

620
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: I I was worthy of being recruited because to this

621
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: point I haven't done anything worth noting about. Right, um be,

622
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: if there's any chance you're gonna play basketball for a living,

623
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: you need to have a good year. And seeing your

624
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: coach just looked you and your eye told you that

625
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: yourself and and so I have a lot of I

626
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: have a tiple my show to going into that that

627
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: that year, and you know I was more than even

628
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: more determined to make sure our team has success and

629
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: that I could experience playing state tournament. Fascinating because that

630
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: experience for you, um has to be really interesting as

631
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: as a head coach because and I don't know, and

632
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: like you and I have talked coaching philosophy some, but

633
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting. A lot of coaches they get

634
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: down on kids and they can't ever see that the

635
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: kid has changed or that the kids evolved, like they

636
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: just man coaches that especially assistant coaches. I talked to you,

637
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: They're like, man, I just I can't talk my head

638
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: coach into liking this kid. Like he's just done with him.

639
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: He just wants and wants to run him off. Get

640
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: a scholarship spot open. When kids do change, right, they

641
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: do go home, they do become better shooters, they do right,

642
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: And it's so so do you? Is that is that

643
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: part of have you been able to maintain that part

644
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: of who you are as a head coach that like, look,

645
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: this is who this guy was, this kid was. But

646
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: I'm willing because I know there's like I know, you

647
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: have a kid on your team who had actually had

648
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:10,959
Speaker 1: a hell of a year. You and I talked about

649
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: him before. You're like, man, I don't know, but because

650
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: because he does one thing really really well, he ended

651
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: up he end up being a guy you had to

652
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: have on the floor. I just wonder how much of

653
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 1: that used from your own experience in your own team now, Yeah,

654
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: I mean I use it a little bit from my experience,

655
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 1: but I've also evolved as a person and I've coached

656
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: long enough to have seen it also. Um, And it

657
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 1: keeps coming up every year when you see a guy

658
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: whose friends who could go either way, And a lot

659
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: of it is I mean, coaches have a lot more

660
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 1: influence over kids mindset than they they give themselves credit for.

661
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: And kids know when you believe in them, they know

662
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: when you trying to help them be better, and they

663
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 1: know when you're committed to seeing that they have some success. Um.

664
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: And I remember working at South Carolina we had a

665
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: kid who who and it probably ended up, honestly at

666
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: the end of the day, really really durelling our opportunity

667
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 1: to stay there. Kid named Ramon Galloway on South Florida,

668
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 1: really really talented, came in like a fourth star. He

669
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: was being recruited by other schools at that level, and

670
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 1: he committed to us. You've got all this promise, but

671
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 1: he's button heads with our head coach all time. But

672
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 1: after his sophomore year, man he just can't He can't

673
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: get out of his own way, and we can't help

674
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: him and can't figure it out. I mean, I don't

675
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 1: know if you've ever heard his name before. The kid

676
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: Transford to this tournament. They state the first round, they

677
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: go to Street sixteen. Gar zd just's an extension we

678
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: get fired to later. Um, did you did you think

679
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 1: you'd be a coach? But I think I would be

680
00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: a coach. Yeah, when you're when you're playing, You're like,

681
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: when I could do that? I mean, what was the

682
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: obviously everybody has. Everybody thinks they're gonna play. I always

683
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 1: thought I could coach, uh, And I always thought that

684
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: maybe later on in my life I would try to

685
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 1: maybe coach. Maybe you thought, well, I can't think about

686
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: coaching college. Um, yeah, in New York, you just exposed

687
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: so much professional sports. You don't really think about college

688
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 1: athletics that much. But as I got into coach, as

689
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 1: I got into college, I started to think more about man,

690
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: I really kind of see the thing, see the game

691
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: differently than my teammates. I understand everything my coach says

692
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: the very first time he says it, I can go

693
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: do it either any of the five positions on the

694
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: floor that he's told. Maybe he can't do it as

695
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: well as a seven footer, but I can do that too.

696
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: I can guard, you know what I mean. Uh? So,

697
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,720
Speaker 1: I always felt like I thought the game likely coach,

698
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: and I really hoped that I would play, to be

699
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: perfectly honest, uh you know, for for a few years

700
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: and they then paying out. I had an opportunity maybe

701
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: to go to Belgium right out to my CEO. I

702
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: had some knee issues which kind of slowed me down.

703
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: But the truth is that this wasn't a pro basketball player, man.

704
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: And so you know, I've gotten a coaching on the

705
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: advice of Again, both of my college coaches called me

706
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: to kind of got over fill them back for myself

707
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,919
Speaker 1: that didn't have great professional planning opportunities. He said, hey, man,

708
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: we think you could do this. I'll talk to coach

709
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 1: Bobo and coach Otam, and they helped me get on

710
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: as a as a graduate assistant with Larry Davis UH

711
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 1: at Firman University Virus, most recently the associate head coaches Cincinnati.

712
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,280
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Larry, Larry's Larry's kind of crazy person, like

713
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 1: the more excited. He's got a lot of relationships. He

714
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,720
Speaker 1: makes guys better. But I learned so much from him

715
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: about the grind that is college basketball coaching. Uh. The

716
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: fact who threatened to aspire me in my interview. Um,

717
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: I'm not saying today I got the job during the

718
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: interview he threatened to fire me. So he set the

719
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: tone like this is how this is gonna be, and

720
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 1: you're needed gonna do it or you're not, and you're

721
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: gonna learn a lot if you do it the right way,

722
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: or you're not gonna be here. So um, yeah, I

723
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 1: learned that this this harshness. I worked for six different

724
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: guys that believe they all do it differently. They've all

725
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: had sea level of success. All right, So you're working

726
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: for Larry at at Furman UM and then you did

727
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: you gonna work for buzz at coach? Soals that what

728
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 1: happened with Peterson? Did I did? Yeah? Yeah's a Bus

729
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 1: had been at Tennessee and Bus was pretty successful at

730
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: at State and then actually took over for Bill selves

731
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: Tulsa team. When Bill last I think Bill might have

732
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: gone to the like the Sweet sixteen or at lead

733
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: eight at Tulsa and before he went to Illinois. The

734
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: bus takes over for Bill self. He has a good

735
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: deal with them. I think they go to the n

736
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: i T Championship game. And then he gets a ten

737
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 1: job and and uh, you know, he gets fired and

738
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 1: two guys and five at the same time, I'm finishing

739
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: my g A year at Furman and he gives me

740
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: my first assistant coaching on the road recruit the opportunity. Okay, So, um,

741
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: you mentioned firm. So Fermon is a small I've I've heard,

742
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: I've never been there. I've heard just incredibly beautiful small

743
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: school in North Carolina. What was that? Okay? So what

744
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: is one of the feutiful scritpal campuses you have a

745
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: you know visit. It's a high academic school, UM and

746
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: the in the South, in the Southern Conference. Did you

747
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: get your masters there? Would you do your during your

748
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: g A year? So I started, I actually started a

749
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: master's program Masters in Teaching UM, the two year program.

750
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: But after my after my first year Firman is when

751
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: Buzz got the the Coastal Carolina job and I went

752
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: with them, so it didn't finish and not finished my masters.

753
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 1: How did it come about? Because Buzz is a Carolina

754
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: guy right like even now he's working for Jordan's with

755
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: with the Bobcats. How did you get into the Carolina

756
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: I mean I guess the kind of like how did

757
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: you get into the Carolina FAMI? So again, Coach Focus

758
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: been mentor UH, big help for me all my career.

759
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: And he actually recruited Buzz and actually recruited Buzz in

760
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: the same class that he recruited Michael Jordan's and UM

761
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: and and helped because obviously Buzz wouldn't bring his whole

762
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: staff from Tennessee down to that level of and we're

763
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: kind of looking for more opportunities to stay a high

764
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 1: major program. So there was an opportunity there and Uh

765
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: I was ready to take it. Okay, So Coastal for

766
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,760
Speaker 1: people who don't know, Uh, Coastal Carolina is in what Conway,

767
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: South Carolina? So like you just can't get out of

768
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: the state of South South Carolina, right like you come down,

769
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: you're like man um, so you take you take this job?

770
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 1: What was it like when he what was the instructions

771
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: he gave you in your first Now you're on the

772
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: road actually recruiting. That's the first thing I had to

773
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: do is I went to the Southern Conference office and

774
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: took the recruiting test. It was in uh in Spartanburg,

775
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 1: South Carolina. So drove up there, took the test, and

776
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 1: I literally get the results and I go on the

777
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 1: role from the test and I'll go recruiting in North Carolina.

778
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: Uh some places that Buzz had known some people, and

779
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: you know, we're just trying to figure out how to

780
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: get this program going. They weren't very good a year before. UH,

781
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 1: So I had to the the ground running. Didn't know anything

782
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: about recruiting. I didn't think I knew how to identify

783
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,399
Speaker 1: talent um, but kind of learned on the ropes and

784
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 1: started freaking things out from there. You know, it's interesting

785
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 1: because um Self would has told me the story of

786
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: Billy Clyde and Bill Aillespie. That Billy was at Baylor

787
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: in n and that's when Self hired him to Tulsa.

788
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: And he literally said like he hired him, like on

789
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 1: the phone and he's like, hey man, send me some

790
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: hats and shirts, and he's like send him ahead to

791
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:51,359
Speaker 1: like the hotel wherever they were gonna be, wherever he's

792
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: gonna stay. And like literally the next day he just

793
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 1: had changed hats shirts and he started recruiting for Tulsa.

794
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 1: Like it was it was literally like that had so rumor.

795
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: So so what was it like? Like you're in your

796
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: you're you're born AD two, this is oh five, You're

797
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: twenty three years, three years old, You've been out of

798
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: school for not a cause of the year, and um,

799
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 1: you know, literally just trying to get my feet wet,

800
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: you know. And I really didn't understand at the time

801
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: levels of basketball. You know, from a collegiate standpoint, right,

802
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: who's realistic to recruit here? And so you just kind

803
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,879
Speaker 1: of start calling people, you know, and trying to get

804
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: the best guys possible. And uh so we stopped at

805
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: but we landed a couple of pretty good kids. We

806
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: actually got a kid out of Tennessee who was a

807
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: really good player. He named Josh Smack. But the first

808
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:47,720
Speaker 1: kid I ever personally sound was a kid named Everett Richardson. Um,

809
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 1: you know, obviously you go back to what you know,

810
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: and I knew some people in New York. Everge was

811
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: a non qualifier out of New York City, out of Brooklyn.

812
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: I knew his older brother. I knew it was a

813
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,399
Speaker 1: you guys, and so they said, hey, if you can

814
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: help us, we got a way to get this kid outsible.

815
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 1: You know, he'll telling the little beats. So he was

816
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: actually a Sullivan Community College in New York. I went

817
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: up to Sawham visiting with his mom and brother, and uh,

818
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 1: you know the rest of ships. The first kid I

819
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: ever signed, and he was playing basketball. Now, yeah he's

820
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: still playing, Like I just looked him up. Wh you

821
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: were talking like he must have got hurt his he

822
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: must have got hurt his second year because he was

823
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 1: averaging like fourteen a game but only played seventeen games.

824
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: But yeah he's still playing. You that me still hoping.

825
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: And I've got a family now. And you know, one

826
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: of my proud of stories is so when I first

827
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: started talking to this kid in his family, obviously you

828
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: do the background of tramp scripts and I mean it's

829
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: not not anything that you would take anywhere close to

830
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: Stanford or even Ferming for that matter, And uh, when

831
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: they're like, man, how are we going to get this

832
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: kid into a college I remember sitting in his living

833
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: room and telling the kid, hey, if you if you

834
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: take a chance and believe in me, in our staff

835
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: and what we can do here, then when you graduated

836
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: from college, I'll be there for your graduation. And the

837
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: kid came in how he motivated obviously he had a

838
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 1: lot of academic support um and he graduated. I made

839
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: sure I was there, even though I was no longer

840
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 1: working at Coastal Carolina by the time he actually did

841
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: finished just a great two years later. Yeah, he's playing.

842
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: He played in Iceland last year, average average thirty a

843
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:25,919
Speaker 1: game in Iceland. He's a bucket getter, always has been.

844
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: He's still getting buckets in Iceland. He's still and he's

845
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: only you're I don't know if you know this, Like

846
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: you're only like three and a half years older than him, right, Like,

847
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys know no, Listen, I knew his

848
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 1: older brothers, so I knew him because he was kind

849
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: of a little guy around when we were big, you know,

850
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: big gas playing, So I kind of had a it

851
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 1: was it was an easy ending way for me to

852
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: get started. So yeah, and I still talked to the

853
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: kids to this day. And you know, all those all

854
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: those good things. So then you're there for two years?

855
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: How did you come to work for Mike Young at Watford?

856
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 1: There's sort of business of basketball continues to get revealed

857
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: to me two years and Uh, we actually started hearing

858
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: some grumblings about midway through our second year there that

859
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: Buzz wasn't necessarily happy um coaching at that level anymore,

860
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 1: and that Buzz had act. Bus and Michael Jordan's have

861
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: always remained really close, right, even when they went in

862
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:26,240
Speaker 1: different ways from the professional standpoint. Uh, and Buzz Michael

863
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: Jordan would come down to Wilmington where he's from, which

864
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,399
Speaker 1: is about an hour from Conway Myrtle Beach area where

865
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: Copal is, and they were golf throughout the year. We

866
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: started hearing rumblings about Buzz maybe leaving again. I'm young,

867
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 1: I'm just excited to be working and long behold about maybe.

868
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 1: Like early April mid April, Bus calls us into a

869
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: meeting and says, Hey, this opportunity to come up, I

870
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: can't pass up. Michael wants to become joining the front

871
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: office staff. But at the time they would have Bobcat

872
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 1: to believe and U and the rest of history. I mean,

873
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: we're sitting there as a staff have trying to figure

874
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 1: out what's next. Because you know, when your college assistant

875
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 1: and you've got leaves for another college job, you think

876
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: there's an opportunity for you to go with him. And

877
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: when he goes to the NBA and he's not coaching,

878
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 1: it doesn't really necessarily work that you have a have

879
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: opportunity there. So he was talking to the NBA and

880
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 1: cut Ellis came in, who I never really met. I

881
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: played against his teams at Auburn when I was in college.

882
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: I didn't really know much about Hi mother than that. UH.

883
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 1: And then Mike Young had a change in his staff,

884
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: and I respected Mike and and had a conversation with

885
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: him about that. It took that opportunity to go work

886
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: for him. The major news in that story was coach

887
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 1: to Catline is a pretty well paying job for UH

888
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,240
Speaker 1: lower level school. So I was that I was probably

889
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: twenty five years old at the time, and I was

890
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:50,839
Speaker 1: thinking about sixty five thousand. They gave me a car

891
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: and a cell phone, and that was good because it

892
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: probably stayed there a Mortle Beach for a long time.

893
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,479
Speaker 1: Single UH and I went to Ratford. UH took about

894
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: a stip team thousand, I'll pay maybe a little bit more.

895
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 1: No car, no cell phone, but an opportunity to work

896
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: for us. Guy had a lot of respect for and

897
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: thought would have a chance to be with his successful

898
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: and Mike Young Moo remains really really close U to

899
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: me and my family. Yeah, and of course he just

900
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: he finally left after suchable Man, I'm shocked and took

901
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: this long because you can't imagine me the lack of

902
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: um the resources that he was able to have a

903
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: unbelievable amount of success with for twenty five summer years

904
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: at Watford. I mean literally when I worked for him,

905
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: I was his associate head coach and this is in

906
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 1: two thousand seven, and we had another assistant coach whose

907
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: full time and we had a third assistant entitle only

908
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 1: because he did not get paid by the university. He

909
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: actually had a job that he worked from eight to

910
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,800
Speaker 1: three and then he came to the office for practice.

911
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: It's crazy. It's crazy. Okay, let's let's let's go back

912
00:47:58,080 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: for a second. So now you now you're starting to

913
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: build up kind of working for different guys, and it's

914
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: not like you're in one basketball family right where like

915
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 1: the Carolina guys, I'll run the Carolina secondary into motion.

916
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 1: They run kind of the same stuff back then, you know,

917
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: um and and you know like uh, you know, and

918
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: before you became an Underwood guy. But like Underwood, like

919
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,399
Speaker 1: you guys gotta all run that same spread. You guys

920
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: all play defense. There's a similar style or whatever. But okay,

921
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 1: but but you played for two different coaches and now

922
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 1: you've worked for this is your third coach. Mike's your

923
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: third coach you've worked for. Al Right, so let's let's

924
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: go through it. For Like Fogler, his greatest strength as

925
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: a coach. You already talked about how honest the guy

926
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: he was. But what is his greatest strength as a coach.

927
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: This preparation. The most particulously prepared coach that I've ever

928
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 1: been around. I mean it's down to a science. Every

929
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: out of bounce play, every out of time out that

930
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 1: the other team would he would know it, and he

931
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 1: would have us prepared to ended and to attack them defensively.

932
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 1: If you were gonna be honest with him and tell

933
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 1: him here's something that he could have done better, what

934
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: would it be? He was extremely rigid. I mean, he

935
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: was an old school guy. This is how we do

936
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 1: things right. So from a player development standpoint, there wasn't

937
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 1: a whole lot of emphasis, There wasn't a whole lot

938
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: of emphasis, uh, in terms of that specifically as it

939
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: relates to strength and conditioning. So I think just some

940
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 1: of the the changes he wasn't very adaptable, um from

941
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 1: a coaching standpoint, And I think part of it is

942
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: he watched coach Smith dool for so long one way

943
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 1: and then also has success himself for so long doing

944
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: it that way. Remember, he was the coach of the

945
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: year at Wichita State when they were in the Valley.

946
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: He was the coach of the in the SEC when

947
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: he first came in at Vanderbilt and took them to

948
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: the tournament. There was a coach to the un SEC

949
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 1: with South Carolina playing the playing with the same style

950
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: with a different type of player at South Carolina. So

951
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 1: it's pretty set in his ways. It's It's one of

952
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: the things that I would say, it wasn't very deptul okay,

953
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 1: um n ask you about Buzz. What was Buzz's greatest

954
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: strength as a coach? Oh man, just the most easy

955
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 1: going guy that you could imagine, didn't sweat anything. Uh.

956
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: The house may be on fire. He'll tell you, man,

957
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 1: it's just getting warm in here. But that's just Buzz.

958
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: You know. He was very very relaxed, very confident, very comfortable,

959
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 1: um with the way things are going all right. And

960
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 1: then it was that his weakness too, is that there

961
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 1: was some some details something heard. You know, I heard

962
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 1: us in a lot of ways. Um. And and again

963
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to speak on how he was

964
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: before he coached at Coastal because he had had so

965
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: much success and did a really good job at if

966
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: we're being honest, they didn't make determine a time, but

967
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: he had built what Bruce Pearl took over and then elevated.

968
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 1: You know, it was based on the foundation at buzz

969
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: At built. But he had heard him in refiting. Uh. Again,

970
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,320
Speaker 1: it was time when he would take off of Michael

971
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,839
Speaker 1: Jordan and go play golf in the middle of the year.

972
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 1: And that's just not something that you sleep very often.

973
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: But that was Fuzz. Yeah. No. We we we played

974
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:03,439
Speaker 1: their app state team my senior year. They were really

975
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 1: we We kicked the hell out of him. We we

976
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 1: played really really well that game. But I remember watching

977
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 1: him and it's one of those like you play a

978
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: team and they're supposed to be good and then you

979
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: kicked the ship out of him and you're like, man,

980
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: they're not even good. Then you watched them, you're like, oh,

981
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 1: they just didn't play well and we actually played, we

982
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 1: actually played at a night when we played really really well.

983
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 1: Um okay, So so now you what about what? Okay?

984
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 1: You we talked about Mike Young? What how is he able?

985
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: What's what's the secret sauce there? So the super sauce

986
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: and Mike is that he is a basketball chunky. I

987
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: mean in terms of just selessly studying the game, being

988
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 1: on top of recruiting, but at a place where there

989
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 1: was not a whole lot of pressure. But you wouldn't

990
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 1: be able to tell that he worked every day like

991
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 1: you know, he was on the hot seat. And and

992
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 1: that's part of the reason he was so driven to

993
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:54,799
Speaker 1: have so much success, because even though he worked at

994
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 1: a place, I think it's just his competitive nature. You know,

995
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 1: he watched uh and wast after coach quest, but the

996
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,439
Speaker 1: Great College of Charleston teams Chattanooga had a good run

997
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 1: and then Davidson basically took over the league there in

998
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: the mid two thousands. So I think just his competitive

999
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:11,840
Speaker 1: job is what made him really really good because he

1000
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 1: was so determined to overcome some of those challenges. Uh. Okay,

1001
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 1: so you're there one year, right, just one year and

1002
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 1: now of a sudden, Uh, Dave Odham, who you had

1003
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: played for your last three years, he I don't know

1004
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 1: if he retired, he got fired. I think he retired.

1005
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 1: Every everybody who coaches, he retires, by the way, just right,

1006
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: that's it's true though, right, College of Charleston is the

1007
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: ultimate retired job. But like, right, so you have you

1008
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 1: have two that you played for both retired and then

1009
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: Buzz essentially retired too. So you know maybe yeah, so

1010
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 1: um so Darren Horne gets the job? How did what

1011
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 1: was what was the decision like to go back to

1012
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,839
Speaker 1: your alma mater? And it was only five Again, I'm

1013
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: twenty five years old maybe, and you know, my almamount

1014
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: opened and I'm ninety minutes up the road, and I've

1015
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: kind of established pit of a work, of a little

1016
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: bit of a reputation that somebody who can help get

1017
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: players and develop them and all that stuff. The thing

1018
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: I miscalculated was just how it was working for someone

1019
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 1: at the high major level that you don't know um.

1020
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 1: And so it was a bit of an adjustment. Then

1021
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 1: I did a great job in terms of bringing a

1022
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 1: winning attitude and trying to change the culture because it

1023
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 1: had gone spale a little bit at the end of

1024
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: Coach Oldam's time. Uh, high energy. If just come off things.

1025
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 1: The hot name is just come off a suit sixteen

1026
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 1: at Western Kentucky. Uh. The thing we miscalculated was just

1027
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 1: how much you know, how much the difference is in

1028
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: terms of recruiting and having talent to win and the

1029
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: sec versus the Sun Belt at the time in West

1030
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 1: Kentucky is the best job in that league. At the

1031
00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 1: time South Carolina is not the best job. And he

1032
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: has so the way you approach things and have success. UHM,

1033
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 1: really not that close? Why why? Why is like I'm

1034
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 1: I'm passing by South Carolina? Uh? Not just knowing you

1035
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 1: knowing Frank um. Um, not to not to name drop,

1036
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 1: but but um, Darius Rucker is a friend of mine.

1037
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: And um, I don't know if you remember Anton James

1038
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: and uh, what's his name? Harold Harold Jamison. So Harold Jamison.

1039
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 1: Before my senior year, he came out, stayed in my

1040
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 1: house all summer, played with us in Au and he

1041
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: went to Clemson, and he started talking about all the

1042
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: dudes in the state of South Carolina. And I didn't know,

1043
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 1: like that was before I had ever seen Kevin Garnette play.

1044
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: I don't know he's really from South Carolina. And I

1045
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: know Ray Allen was an army brat, but he he

1046
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 1: went to high school in South Carolina. Why South Carolina

1047
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: produces a lot of players Raymond Tultons from why can't?

1048
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 1: Why isn't? Why is it such a tough job in

1049
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: comparison to some other big state schools. So I've been

1050
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 1: part of it. Is uh and it's probably the sound

1051
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: like coach state. But turnover is not necessarily always good. Yeah,

1052
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 1: I think where you don't, you don't have consistency and

1053
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 1: the messaging for recruits and then so you have turnover

1054
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 1: every four or five years. It creates a lot of instability.

1055
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 1: You know, the players who are coming in don't have

1056
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: a connection to the players who played for the last coach,

1057
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 1: and those guys don't have a connection to the guys

1058
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 1: who played for the coach previously. And we've talked about this,

1059
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 1: you know, off the record, about where we are now.

1060
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 1: You know, there's been a lot of turnover and that

1061
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 1: that harms the development of a program in terms of

1062
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:41,359
Speaker 1: having a consistent success. The resources may be there, but again,

1063
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: if you're changing leadership, you're changing philosophies. And when you're

1064
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 1: changing the philosophies being dealing with totally different people in

1065
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 1: the way they do things in a short amount of time,

1066
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: that really really hurts you your growth. It's a great

1067
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 1: it's a great point um and and ultimately, what was

1068
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 1: that like to get fired by your ALBA monitor? It

1069
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 1: was amazing. I mean I thought I would go to

1070
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 1: MBDA for the rest of my career, to be honest,

1071
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,919
Speaker 1: and that maybe there would would have success. Uh maybe

1072
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:12,800
Speaker 1: you go back to his home school Kentucky or whatever,

1073
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 1: and then I may become a head coach there. And

1074
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,360
Speaker 1: this is again at twenty five years old, thinking, you know,

1075
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 1: I'm an SEC and I'm at the highest level is

1076
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:23,319
Speaker 1: you can be as an assistant coach, you know, at

1077
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 1: a powerful school where you got all the resources. And

1078
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 1: so I was excited to get to work and try

1079
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:30,839
Speaker 1: to build ourselves to be contenders in SEC. Favorite player

1080
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 1: you signed there? Uh, so we signed Stephen Vanilla, Ramon

1081
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: Galloway and John dre Jefferson our first year. A second year,

1082
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 1: we had a really good recruiting class. Bruce Sellington who

1083
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: now plays in the NFL, and Demontre Harris will probably

1084
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 1: the most highly cuted on recruits. But Eric Smith and R. J.

1085
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 1: Slawson to South Carolina kids were part of that class.

1086
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,319
Speaker 1: Brought in a transfer from Nevada, where as the lead

1087
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 1: with some Charlotte named Malick Cook was kind of a

1088
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 1: combo forward um. And then we signed uh Anthony Gil

1089
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:13,399
Speaker 1: and Damien Leonard who were both really really highly included kids.

1090
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 1: As the Guil was on Virginia's the lead eight team

1091
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 1: not too far ago. Uh and uh, you know, at

1092
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: the end of the day, we just didn't win enough.

1093
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 1: He didn't develop quick enough. And you know I didn't

1094
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 1: give ourselves enough. You know, rope To, we can have

1095
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: our our administration believe in what we're doing. No, No,

1096
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 1: favorite player you signed, you mean it doesn't have That

1097
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: doesn't mean the best favorite player I thought, he said

1098
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 1: named the players have signed. No, No, no, I don't

1099
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 1: give a about all those other players. Favorite player you

1100
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:47,439
Speaker 1: signed anywhere? No, at South Carolina is a favorite player

1101
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 1: we signed the South Lina probably was Bruce probably Bruce.

1102
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 1: Bruce was very interesting story. So he grew up as

1103
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 1: a two sport athlete. It was like one of the

1104
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: top football players in South Carolina. And we were kind

1105
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 1: of puzzled because he was really being recruited heavily by

1106
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 1: football programs but not by South Carolina football clubs in Florida,

1107
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 1: Florida State, Georgia and football. And so we see the

1108
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 1: kid one summer planning in uh and you were like, man,

1109
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 1: this kid's got a chance. I wondered if he would

1110
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 1: want to play both sports. And he does these spurs

1111
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 1: our football coach at the time, and we tell him, hey,

1112
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 1: this kid wants to do both, we could use your

1113
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 1: help here. And they don't really want to recruit him.

1114
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: So wait, so hold on, wait wait wait so but

1115
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 1: but this is this is interesting. I think to people,

1116
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 1: how did it work? Did Darren go directly to the top.

1117
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 1: Did you go to what would be the recruiting coordinator? Like,

1118
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 1: what's the conversation because every school is different. Some it's

1119
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: the football does the football thing, and everybody else does

1120
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 1: everything else, Like how did it actually? How was the conversation?

1121
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 1: Do you remember how the conversation went? Well, it was

1122
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 1: actually one of our assistants called one of the assistants

1123
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: and said, hey, this is kid. It's a Monk's Corner,

1124
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 1: which is not near Charleston, really really Townsend. I'm sure

1125
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 1: they knew about him, but maybe they didn't evaluate him,

1126
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: ye know the way some of the other football programs

1127
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 1: had um And so that was how it started. But

1128
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 1: you gotta remember at the time, South Carolina football is

1129
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 1: rolling and they have al Sean Jeffrey Marcus Lattimer. Um.

1130
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 1: I mean they got like it's like eight or nine

1131
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 1: dudes that are in the NFL making making a difference

1132
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 1: right now. They were in their program at the time.

1133
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 1: Uh so just never materialized very much. Um. He leaves

1134
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: his team to a state championship as a senior, but

1135
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 1: had signed to play basketball that November with with our

1136
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 1: with our program, a great story. Um, so we actually

1137
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 1: have him this freshman year. It's really good. He then

1138
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 1: decides at the end of his freshman year he's got

1139
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 1: the football. It's again, we think that the football stats

1140
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 1: now realized, Holy ship, this guy's really could and so

1141
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 1: he can't go on scholarship in football. But you didn't

1142
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 1: do it, understand. But you come to play two sports

1143
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 1: at the college you have to go. There's a hierarchy.

1144
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: You have to be on scholarship at the higher with

1145
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 1: you know, higher level of sport. So football is number

1146
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 1: one on that fool chain because you don't want to

1147
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 1: have football programs bringing in track athletes on scholarship and

1148
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, then having them be football players,

1149
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: stealing extra scholarship players that way. So long story short,

1150
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:29,880
Speaker 1: he can't play bass football the spring, and he goes

1151
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: out and plays the next year when he becomes an

1152
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 1: All SEC freshman basketball player as a true freshman in

1153
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 1: his first year, plans football in a SEC. He's an

1154
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 1: All freshman STUC football player as a wretcher freshman. It's crazy,

1155
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 1: phenomenal athlete. Were you were there? Were you were? Were

1156
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: your students South Carolina when they had the bad fight,

1157
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 1: Lou holds his last game. So that was actually I

1158
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 1: graduate and leave and oh four and so that football

1159
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 1: game was pin O four, but I was gone. I

1160
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 1: was actually a farman, which was closer the Clemson. What

1161
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 1: a fight actually happened in Colombia like the night before

1162
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: that fight at Clemson was the mousee of the palace

1163
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: between the paces and pissants. Here man, I was. I

1164
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: was so the mouse of the palace. I was actually

1165
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 1: watching the game with my wife. We had just oh three,

1166
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 1: I started ESPN, so it's like, oh four, I'm watching

1167
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 1: it and I was like, oh my god. And they

1168
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 1: had I was like on radio. I think I was

1169
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 1: on Sports Center whatever, just like on the phone, just

1170
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 1: giving kind of commentary on it. And then I remember

1171
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 1: sitting on like the exact same couch in the exact

1172
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 1: same living room, and I'm watching in South Carolina and

1173
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: Clemson and it was one of the craziest brawls I've

1174
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 1: ever seen, right, and that was that was the end

1175
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 1: of I think it was Lou Holtz the last game.

1176
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 1: That was his last game. And then they didn't they

1177
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 1: not they didn't play the next year or something, right,

1178
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 1: like it's punishment, like, hey, we're not gonna play, like

1179
01:01:56,960 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 1: it's crazy. So I yeah, okay, so um it. But

1180
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 1: this is where it gets hard to be fired by

1181
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:09,120
Speaker 1: your You guys were fired right at the end of

1182
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 1: uh oh yeah, four years. Four years, and you know,

1183
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: we kind of still here, you know what I mean,

1184
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 1: you look at your record. We didn't have a whole

1185
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 1: lot of momentum recruiting that's really kind of your biggest

1186
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 1: death nail because there's no hope to them, right, if

1187
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 1: you're not recruiting, well then why why should we believe?

1188
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 1: So yeah, we get fired four years later, and uh,

1189
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:37,000
Speaker 1: probably one of the more difficult moments, um, because you know,

1190
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 1: the d comes in and sells. Darren. Hey, I'm not

1191
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:43,920
Speaker 1: not honored. We'll honor the last few years, but you're

1192
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 1: not gonna have the job, and as an assistance, you

1193
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:48,520
Speaker 1: don't have multi years. This is kind of before that

1194
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 1: became a voke thing. So yeah, we'll let go. This

1195
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 1: is in two thousand twelve, I believe. Okay, so what

1196
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 1: do you what you at the were you married at

1197
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 1: the time, Now you weren't married, I'm kind no, Actually, yeah,

1198
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 1: I got married in May of two thousand and eleven,

1199
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 1: so I was less than a year married, and you know,

1200
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 1: we had just found out that my wife was pregnant

1201
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:17,200
Speaker 1: with our first child. And so here we are sitting

1202
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 1: there and uh, spring summer of two thousand and twelve,

1203
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 1: my wife's got a child going away, and I don't

1204
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 1: necessarily no kind of income I'm gonna be able to

1205
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: help provide for this. So uh, but but you didn't

1206
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 1: you do you stayed one year with Frank, didn't you?

1207
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:41,960
Speaker 1: Or did you go? Frank comes into replace Darren, and, uh,

1208
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:45,920
Speaker 1: you know I had some franking not cross pass before,

1209
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 1: not professionally, um, but when I was younger. He was

1210
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 1: actually counsel at Nikiell American Camp. Uh you know, kind

1211
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 1: of continued there, but it comes in and go. Brad

1212
01:03:57,200 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: is actually trying to get the head coaching job at

1213
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 1: Case State, like, and Frank says, hey, I don't know

1214
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 1: what's gonna happen if he gets the job. Maybe a

1215
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 1: guy too stays and she doesn't get the job, and

1216
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 1: bring all staff with me, and I'll try to help you,

1217
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:12,240
Speaker 1: but I don't. I won't have an assistant coaching job

1218
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 1: for you. I get it. Respect the Frank to being honest, uh,

1219
01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 1: telling me straight up what it was so I could

1220
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 1: kind of prepare. Uh, so well, his whole whole staff

1221
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:24,480
Speaker 1: does come and Brad comes with him, and Frank actually

1222
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 1: asked that I helped him kind of figure out the

1223
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 1: later land Over the first couple of months that he's there,

1224
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 1: my wife and I had decided that we would stay

1225
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 1: so that we could continue to see the doctors that

1226
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,440
Speaker 1: she had been seeing through the pregnancy, we could have

1227
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: the baby in a place that we do well a

1228
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 1: million people around. My parents lived in Atlanta, three hours away,

1229
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 1: so they could get there, UM, and so we stayed,

1230
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 1: and Frank actually helped us figure out a way to

1231
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 1: stay within the athletic department UM kind of working on

1232
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:57,280
Speaker 1: some transitional things to student athletes, but in the row

1233
01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:00,440
Speaker 1: that was more encompassing of the whole athlete partment as

1234
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 1: opposed to just basketball. What's that like to watch? And

1235
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:07,880
Speaker 1: it's like you're managing your wife, but you're you're like

1236
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 1: watching somebody else do a job you just had that

1237
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 1: had to be that had to be hard. Well, you know,

1238
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 1: the hardest part of this, if I'm honest, is when

1239
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 1: you're the guy who gets fired and it hasn't gone well.

1240
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 1: Then a lot of times what happens with the new

1241
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 1: staff comes in and they kill everything at the last

1242
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 1: staff's done, and the players stink, and you know, while

1243
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 1: we're recruiting these guys and while we're taking these recruiting

1244
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 1: services and what the heck we're doing with facilities and

1245
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 1: so just dealing with that. But I was I was

1246
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 1: also um self aware enough to know some of it

1247
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 1: was right. There was there was a reason that we

1248
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 1: didn't continue to have our job, and you know, so

1249
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 1: there were some things that I learned. It wasn't easy,

1250
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 1: and especially because I have relationships with those guys who

1251
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 1: then became you know, entrenched in that talk, and a

1252
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:05,480
Speaker 1: lot of them were then moved on pretty quickly after

1253
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:09,000
Speaker 1: Frank got there, so that was challenging. At the same time,

1254
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:11,840
Speaker 1: I looked at as an opportunity to learn. UM. Now

1255
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 1: I'm exposed to a whole different philosophy and I'm around

1256
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 1: Frank and listening to him coach and how he teaches

1257
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:20,720
Speaker 1: and talks to kids and how they do recruiting and

1258
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 1: stuff like that. So it was a learning opportunity. I

1259
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 1: actually was able to remove the emotion of having to

1260
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 1: live with wins and losses UM and just be an

1261
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:33,560
Speaker 1: objective of server basketball. So I took the time to

1262
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:36,479
Speaker 1: go around with some other people's practices that year also,

1263
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 1: UH and just really use it as a year of

1264
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:41,920
Speaker 1: growth myself. What was the what was the best practice

1265
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 1: you went? Sow best practice I went until I actually

1266
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:48,560
Speaker 1: was was Mike Young's. I went back to Watford that year,

1267
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:52,480
Speaker 1: UM and and just watched how he built it because

1268
01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:57,200
Speaker 1: it's it's different when you're involved. You don't observe the

1269
01:06:57,320 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 1: same way as when you're part of something. Um. And

1270
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 1: obviously I was rooting for him to have success, and

1271
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 1: they have had they did have unbelievable success moving forward.

1272
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 1: But just watching how good he was sharp, he communicated clearly,

1273
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 1: his guys understood exactly what they were supposed to do

1274
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 1: all the time. But I'll tell you what, Frank Martin

1275
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:21,840
Speaker 1: runs the hell of a practice, um man. I wouldn't

1276
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:27,520
Speaker 1: necessarily advise it for kids under age, right, but there's

1277
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 1: a there's a teaching going on. There's learning involved this

1278
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 1: growth and you can see that there's a plan. And

1279
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:36,920
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm just saying the language sometimes it's uncomfortable,

1280
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 1: But I'm not saying he's he's not. It's not personal.

1281
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 1: It's challenging. Uh. And it's in this environment of growth.

1282
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 1: Um But he is really really good on the basketball court.

1283
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 1: So then Brad gets to Steven f Job, you got

1284
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:54,560
Speaker 1: a baby, right, Yeah? So so it works out right.

1285
01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:57,480
Speaker 1: So I actually I'm around, I'm around the program kind

1286
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:00,360
Speaker 1: of observing them. They're able to bounce ideas off me

1287
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 1: and I go on to the Lamont's office, I go

1288
01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 1: on to Brad's office, I go on the FIG's office

1289
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:07,640
Speaker 1: and to talk to Frank and you know, just different things. Hey,

1290
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:09,560
Speaker 1: when we go to Electionton, what do you think we

1291
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 1: should stay? And helping them with that. They actually played

1292
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 1: at both the Barclays and at St. John's, a true

1293
01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:18,080
Speaker 1: road game with St. John's that year. So I traveled

1294
01:08:18,120 --> 01:08:20,120
Speaker 1: with him and helped him with some different things, and

1295
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 1: so I got to know Brad. I had never met

1296
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 1: him before. That was actually the way I got to

1297
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:26,720
Speaker 1: do Alman's just being around that program for the year.

1298
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:29,280
Speaker 1: So Brad gets the head coaching job at Stephen F.

1299
01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:32,840
Speaker 1: Auston that spring, and he doesn't have a staff and

1300
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:35,439
Speaker 1: even been been an assistant coach, and he knows people,

1301
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 1: but he doesn't know anybody they feel super comfortable with.

1302
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 1: So he offers me an opportunity, and um, you know,

1303
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 1: I didn't really know much about it, In fact, never

1304
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 1: really even heard of Stephen F. Auston um at the

1305
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 1: time that I heard Brad was getting the job. But

1306
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:53,240
Speaker 1: I knew I wanted to coach, and I knew I

1307
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 1: wanted an opportunity to get with somebody who I felt

1308
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:57,919
Speaker 1: comfortable I was gonna have a chance to have success,

1309
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 1: would have support. Um I knew Brad was wanted to

1310
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:03,720
Speaker 1: was gonna want to continue to recruit the Southeast, and

1311
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:07,120
Speaker 1: it would help me start to establish another reason and

1312
01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:10,080
Speaker 1: I could build relationships in But I do have a

1313
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:13,040
Speaker 1: wife and a new born child. So going home to

1314
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:15,799
Speaker 1: try to convince my wife that this is a good idea,

1315
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 1: it wasn't the easiest thing, especially when she asked me

1316
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 1: where the school was and I couldn't really tell her,

1317
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:28,760
Speaker 1: You're like naka nakada. No, it's worse, Doug. She I

1318
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:31,719
Speaker 1: told us, said, hey, Brad, you know, come home and say, Brad,

1319
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:34,360
Speaker 1: it's gonna take this job to Stephen F. Austin, and

1320
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 1: he liked me to join the staff. You know obviously

1321
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 1: want once you're blessing on your support and my wife,

1322
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 1: she's a soldier, let's do it. You think this is

1323
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:44,960
Speaker 1: good for us and our family. But we got this

1324
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:47,599
Speaker 1: new one baby. Where is it we'd like to look

1325
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:49,920
Speaker 1: at houses? Wife, right, I want to know where're gonna

1326
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:53,439
Speaker 1: live and real dot com or Zello that's what they

1327
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 1: go to. Immediately I told her it was in Austin, Texas,

1328
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:05,320
Speaker 1: with a straight face, because that's what I thought. Okay, okay,

1329
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 1: So we go on the computer to start looking up

1330
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 1: housing and we're type in Austin, Texas, and we find

1331
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 1: these houses, but we can't find the school because the

1332
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:19,640
Speaker 1: school is not anywhere near Austin. And so, you know,

1333
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:21,559
Speaker 1: you have that sensation where you know someone's looking at

1334
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:24,760
Speaker 1: you like angry. She's like over my shoulder, and I

1335
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 1: don't want to look at her because I know she

1336
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 1: was So you weren't in in all like you weren't.

1337
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:31,800
Speaker 1: You were just trying to tell her Austin to get

1338
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:33,599
Speaker 1: her off your back. You really thought it wasn't Austin.

1339
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:36,720
Speaker 1: I really did not know where the school, hug. This

1340
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:38,679
Speaker 1: is the day. I haven't even had time of research.

1341
01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:40,320
Speaker 1: I just know I want to coach. I want to

1342
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 1: do this. You know, guys, we get something we're not

1343
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 1: doing whatever. Yeah, all right, the guys, I think I

1344
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:49,519
Speaker 1: didn't be a good coach. That gives a chance to

1345
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 1: get back in. Let's do it. Let's do it. So,

1346
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 1: my wife, how long before you realize it? Why don't

1347
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:58,320
Speaker 1: we search this place by the school name. So we're

1348
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:01,040
Speaker 1: typing Stephen up Auston and the comp to screen like

1349
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:06,080
Speaker 1: moves to Louisiana. Yeah, well, I mean, listen, Stephen f Austin.

1350
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:08,600
Speaker 1: Thinking it was in Austin is not It's not that

1351
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 1: it's not like you thought it was in San Antio.

1352
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 1: Austin in the name would leave a lot of people

1353
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:14,400
Speaker 1: to think it was in Austin. That's not the worst thing,

1354
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:18,360
Speaker 1: except for if two years prior you had gotten married

1355
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 1: and your wife was pregnant a year later and you

1356
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:23,280
Speaker 1: got fired so you don't have a job, and now

1357
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:25,640
Speaker 1: you're gonna tell her and her new born baby to

1358
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 1: move to Texas where there's no family and you don't

1359
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:31,680
Speaker 1: even know where. It is probably not good, not a

1360
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:33,840
Speaker 1: good way to That's not a not a great way

1361
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:35,840
Speaker 1: to start. Okay, So you show up there, you guys,

1362
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:41,599
Speaker 1: show up in Nagadosis, Texas Now isn't like hill country. Yeah,

1363
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:44,880
Speaker 1: pine trees tall tall pine trees. Du What are you

1364
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:49,320
Speaker 1: the oldest town in Texas? Learned that? Right? But great

1365
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:52,760
Speaker 1: basketball edition, right, really really strong basketball program at that

1366
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:56,479
Speaker 1: level has been really successfulhen they leave for a long time. Uh,

1367
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:58,600
Speaker 1: and so the best thing that happens is we have

1368
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:02,479
Speaker 1: a lot of success. Him is basketball season wasn't until

1369
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 1: November We moved way before November, so trying to get

1370
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 1: used to life with a newborn in a new area

1371
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:13,760
Speaker 1: where we don't know anyone. I automatically have a group

1372
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:16,559
Speaker 1: of people to associate with because I'm with the team.

1373
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 1: My wife. Your wife doesn't. Yeah, that's hard. It's hard.

1374
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 1: And you're in acodosis Texas. And where is she from? Yeah,

1375
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:29,080
Speaker 1: so she's from Michigan. And and again I'm not banging

1376
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 1: on acadosis. We had a great time there. We love

1377
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:34,960
Speaker 1: the people, We loved our experience, the city you can

1378
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:39,200
Speaker 1: get to. It's two and a half hours away. They

1379
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:41,720
Speaker 1: got a Walmart there though, right like my my my

1380
01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 1: brothers in my brother's in Corvallis. They my sister in

1381
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:47,680
Speaker 1: law was like, there's a target an hour away. I

1382
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 1: was like, damn still still for two hours? Yeah, yeah,

1383
01:12:55,200 --> 01:13:01,920
Speaker 1: that's that's that's an interesting one. How did it? How long?

1384
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:08,160
Speaker 1: Did how long? Danny Casper was I remember when when

1385
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 1: Bob Knight came to ESPN, you know, like he didn't

1386
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 1: he hadn't watched everybody play. He I mean like he

1387
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:19,040
Speaker 1: was a They should have hired him like ten years previously.

1388
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 1: But he would but he would go on and on

1389
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 1: about Danny Casper and about his team. Danny Casper's and

1390
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:27,880
Speaker 1: his team, how long before you got They were like, damn,

1391
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:31,240
Speaker 1: we actually they actually left us a good team. No,

1392
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 1: we didn't know. We actually thought that our team was terrible.

1393
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:39,360
Speaker 1: They won twenty seven games the year before. They were

1394
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:41,760
Speaker 1: twenty seven and five the year before we got there,

1395
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:45,360
Speaker 1: and we're thinking Danny and left because he thinks that

1396
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:48,679
Speaker 1: this thing is about to go to crap. The leading

1397
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 1: scorer and player the Uni League graduates, The second leading

1398
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:56,679
Speaker 1: scorer and first team All League got graduates, the third

1399
01:13:56,800 --> 01:14:01,760
Speaker 1: leading scorer graduates. The best returning player was a kid

1400
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:11,320
Speaker 1: who averaged eight points a game. Mhm, like I was

1401
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:16,519
Speaker 1: coming back as the starting point guard. Didn't not play.

1402
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:20,679
Speaker 1: He played about ten minutes the game. He took seven

1403
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 1: shots not per game all year. So there was really

1404
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 1: no way to look on paper, look at what they

1405
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:34,240
Speaker 1: lost and what they were turned and think you're gonna

1406
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:37,280
Speaker 1: have any chance to be good. Except they had a culture.

1407
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:41,400
Speaker 1: They had a group of guys who already bought into

1408
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:44,920
Speaker 1: defense because that's what Danny preached. They won games forty nine.

1409
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:49,000
Speaker 1: In fact, they lost five games that year by a

1410
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:52,680
Speaker 1: combined total of like seven points. One of them was

1411
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:55,960
Speaker 1: to Stanford and the n I t by one. One

1412
01:14:56,040 --> 01:15:00,320
Speaker 1: of them was in their conference tournament championship game by one.

1413
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:02,479
Speaker 1: They lost three other games the whole year. They beat

1414
01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:07,120
Speaker 1: ou that year at enormous so they were really good,

1415
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:09,439
Speaker 1: had an established culture. We just didn't see that we

1416
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:15,320
Speaker 1: had any talent. How long before you knew. We didn't

1417
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:20,360
Speaker 1: really know until we go to Marshall's like the second

1418
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 1: week of the season, and you know, we played okay,

1419
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:26,479
Speaker 1: but we hadn't really played anybody. Marshall was really good.

1420
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:29,439
Speaker 1: They had the nation's leading score and at the time,

1421
01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:33,400
Speaker 1: and we wind up beating them in over time, and

1422
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:35,760
Speaker 1: we found out that we had enough talent, but we

1423
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:40,479
Speaker 1: had even more toughness and connectivity. Jacob Parker goes off,

1424
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:43,559
Speaker 1: He's a junior sophomore at the time. No, he said,

1425
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:49,639
Speaker 1: I looked this up because I was, uh, because I'm

1426
01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:54,320
Speaker 1: I'm interested. Didn't you play Danny Casper in like your

1427
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 1: first game? So we actually had They had contracted the

1428
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:02,799
Speaker 1: game Danny goes the Texas State and we played tennis.

1429
01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:04,880
Speaker 1: One of the funniest things I've ever seen in my life.

1430
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:08,960
Speaker 1: Were actually contracted to play um Texas State, like the

1431
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:14,679
Speaker 1: second game of the season, and his players really didn't.

1432
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:18,320
Speaker 1: They liked him as a person, they hated playing for him.

1433
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:21,639
Speaker 1: So they were jack to go play and they felt

1434
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:24,800
Speaker 1: liberated and free because Brad brought his offensive philosophy that

1435
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:27,439
Speaker 1: seemed pretty cool. Gave an opportunity to score, you know

1436
01:16:27,479 --> 01:16:31,200
Speaker 1: what I mean. Um, and we kept the defensive stuff

1437
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:33,840
Speaker 1: and granted that up some. But we go there and

1438
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:37,839
Speaker 1: after the game, Danny Castor is doing a press conference

1439
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:40,560
Speaker 1: and tells Brad to come see him and they have

1440
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:48,560
Speaker 1: one together. I've never seen that in my life. That

1441
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:50,640
Speaker 1: has to just be the weirdest thing ever. Like, it

1442
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:53,160
Speaker 1: wasn't like he left to go to Texas. He left

1443
01:16:53,160 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 1: to go to Texas State. I think Brad because we

1444
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:58,960
Speaker 1: won the game, right, he's in this first year. He's

1445
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:00,920
Speaker 1: trying to talk about all the things he wants to do.

1446
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 1: We're in our first year and Brad's you know, he

1447
01:17:04,479 --> 01:17:06,320
Speaker 1: wants to give him some credit. But also he's a

1448
01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:10,400
Speaker 1: competitor man, Like any want to talk about how he

1449
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:13,240
Speaker 1: wants to have all these guys that he chest left.

1450
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:19,640
Speaker 1: I mean, it was a weird dynamic. Um, yeah, so

1451
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:21,800
Speaker 1: you you beat them, crazy, you beat them you lose

1452
01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:25,120
Speaker 1: the Texas, you beat Marshall, lose the East Tennessee State,

1453
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 1: and then you don't lose again. Yeah, and that was

1454
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:31,639
Speaker 1: the turnaround. I mean when we lost at East Tennessee State,

1455
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:34,599
Speaker 1: that was on a like a quick turnaround. We played

1456
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:36,479
Speaker 1: two games back to back. We had one at Marshall,

1457
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:40,360
Speaker 1: got start feeling themselves and and the kid named Desmond Hayman,

1458
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:44,519
Speaker 1: well these things come full circle, um brings up. We

1459
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:46,559
Speaker 1: get back on the Sunday night and we were were

1460
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:53,280
Speaker 1: supposed to be off. Desmond Desmond Hayman has practice, the players,

1461
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:56,680
Speaker 1: senior players cost practice, runs it. He goes through it.

1462
01:17:57,200 --> 01:17:59,639
Speaker 1: We don't lose another game until the second round. Dn't

1463
01:17:59,640 --> 01:18:05,479
Speaker 1: say turned that's insane. What what was that like to

1464
01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:10,439
Speaker 1: be part of? Like I got it. I'm looking at November. November,

1465
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:15,040
Speaker 1: you lost sixty six to fifty eight, You beat Stanford, UNC,

1466
01:18:15,160 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 1: Wilmington's high point tousand, uh James Madison, North Texas, north Ridge, Lamar.

1467
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:25,560
Speaker 1: Then you run undefeated through league. Then you win, not

1468
01:18:25,640 --> 01:18:28,639
Speaker 1: only do you win your tournament. The Northwestern State game

1469
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:31,160
Speaker 1: I remember watching because you had a point guard the

1470
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:35,560
Speaker 1: shot less than me, that little dude. And then and

1471
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:38,040
Speaker 1: then you uh, you beat Sam Houston. You beat the

1472
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:41,920
Speaker 1: dog piss out of Sam Houston State. And I remember

1473
01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:43,720
Speaker 1: watching the game like, dude, I don't know, I have

1474
01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:46,160
Speaker 1: no idea who these guys are, but whoever draws them

1475
01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:48,400
Speaker 1: is going to lose. What was that like to be

1476
01:18:48,439 --> 01:18:51,439
Speaker 1: a part of You had a twenty eight game winning

1477
01:18:51,479 --> 01:18:56,320
Speaker 1: streak heading into the like coming from yeah, and I

1478
01:18:56,400 --> 01:19:02,120
Speaker 1: mean like yeah, like I forgot what losing was like,

1479
01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:09,400
Speaker 1: and like that the leadership and the teamship amongst that

1480
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:13,760
Speaker 1: that group was was fascinating just to watch like they

1481
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:17,080
Speaker 1: were determined they had lost in again, the core of

1482
01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:20,080
Speaker 1: that team, the seniors had lost in their conference tournament

1483
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:26,680
Speaker 1: championship game the year sport right by one point. This

1484
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:31,519
Speaker 1: year we get back. There's no way they're losing, and

1485
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:33,680
Speaker 1: so they just carried us man and I said that

1486
01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:37,240
Speaker 1: this Desmond Hayman things comes full circle. We played BCU

1487
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:39,240
Speaker 1: in the first round, we get this five twelve thing,

1488
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:41,519
Speaker 1: and this is at the point where it's five twelve

1489
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:44,360
Speaker 1: hot has kind of become a thing to talk about.

1490
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:48,920
Speaker 1: And so that's what the five season really like. Damn.

1491
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:52,800
Speaker 1: You know, like we're gonna play somebody really good and

1492
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:54,880
Speaker 1: we draw them, and we could kind of tell in

1493
01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:56,600
Speaker 1: the in the lab line, BC, you have been to

1494
01:19:56,640 --> 01:19:59,679
Speaker 1: the Final four a few years prior um. This seems

1495
01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:02,760
Speaker 1: to seemed to be a little air of arrogance in

1496
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:05,439
Speaker 1: the warmups, like, oh, we gotta sleeping at Boston. I'm

1497
01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:07,840
Speaker 1: sure their coaches weren't that way, but we've got the

1498
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:10,680
Speaker 1: sense of back from their players going through warmups and

1499
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:14,400
Speaker 1: then they mean that the pressing and just back and

1500
01:20:14,479 --> 01:20:15,920
Speaker 1: forth for a while, but they kind of get away

1501
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:18,680
Speaker 1: from us. You come back and we're down for like

1502
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:26,519
Speaker 1: eight seconds ago, we're down for this? Is that is

1503
01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:30,720
Speaker 1: in San Diego, wasn't it? Yes, Yes, we're down for

1504
01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:33,760
Speaker 1: BC was at the line for two shots with eight

1505
01:20:33,880 --> 01:20:37,439
Speaker 1: seconds to go. They missed both. Thomas walked up just

1506
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:40,320
Speaker 1: the rebounds drives the Lincoln of court. Our leader Desmond

1507
01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:45,599
Speaker 1: Hayman just opened on the wing. He kicks it, shoots it, kids,

1508
01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:50,840
Speaker 1: thous them four point play over time and the life.

1509
01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:54,920
Speaker 1: Life's never been the same. Yeah, So here's here's my

1510
01:20:55,000 --> 01:20:59,439
Speaker 1: story about that regional. Okay, so the whole year I

1511
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:01,960
Speaker 1: was a c yes of the time. The whole year

1512
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:04,800
Speaker 1: I said like, look, you know, my game schedules, my

1513
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:08,200
Speaker 1: game schedule. I was living out here and it's my

1514
01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:11,320
Speaker 1: second year living out here, and I literally had never

1515
01:21:12,200 --> 01:21:15,800
Speaker 1: my son was born March. It was the first day

1516
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:19,519
Speaker 1: of the tournament in two thousand nine, and I went

1517
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:21,840
Speaker 1: and worked that night, and like, March is just a

1518
01:21:21,960 --> 01:21:25,960
Speaker 1: terrible birthday, right because he's just never there, and um,

1519
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:28,360
Speaker 1: you know, in two thousand I was working at the

1520
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:31,439
Speaker 1: I'd always worked, you know, at ESPN on his birthday,

1521
01:21:31,920 --> 01:21:33,760
Speaker 1: and then when I was at CBS, I was like,

1522
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:36,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, gone for the whole month of March. Gone.

1523
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:40,519
Speaker 1: So uh, this is two thousand fourteen, rights his first

1524
01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:43,160
Speaker 1: fifth birthday, and I'm in Orange County and there's a

1525
01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:47,479
Speaker 1: San Diego Regional and I was like I'm there. I

1526
01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:50,599
Speaker 1: was like, look, I don't really care about anything else.

1527
01:21:50,720 --> 01:21:52,720
Speaker 1: Just you don't even have to book me a flight

1528
01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 1: because after the selection Sunday, I could just fly home

1529
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:57,200
Speaker 1: and I can drive down. I was like a Sandy State.

1530
01:21:57,240 --> 01:21:58,960
Speaker 1: My brother used to work there. Like, I don't need

1531
01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:02,040
Speaker 1: a hotel, not I'll save you money. I'll sleep at home.

1532
01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:04,599
Speaker 1: I'll be home for my son's birthday. Like I don't

1533
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:07,320
Speaker 1: give a ship about because I'm not calling the duke

1534
01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:10,479
Speaker 1: Carolina Games, the Kentucky Games. Right, there's a pecking order

1535
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:14,640
Speaker 1: in the way it works. So we're sitting there and

1536
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:17,519
Speaker 1: we we would get the bracket like fifteen minutes before

1537
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:20,280
Speaker 1: everybody else. And I'll never forget that. I see like

1538
01:22:20,360 --> 01:22:25,840
Speaker 1: Oklahoma State is in it, and I was like, huh,

1539
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:28,120
Speaker 1: I wonder if that's a big deal. One that's a

1540
01:22:28,160 --> 01:22:31,880
Speaker 1: big deal. And so, uh we do the show. I

1541
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:34,280
Speaker 1: get on the plane and I get a text message

1542
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:39,160
Speaker 1: and it says uh spoken And I was like, Spokehan

1543
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:45,000
Speaker 1: the fuck and they said and and I put a

1544
01:22:45,080 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 1: question mark, question mark, question mark, question mark, rush shark,

1545
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:50,360
Speaker 1: like why not San Diego, Like it's right down the street.

1546
01:22:51,120 --> 01:22:54,479
Speaker 1: And they're like, look at the bracket like I was

1547
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:57,880
Speaker 1: like Oklahoma State, Like yeah, we can't. It just would

1548
01:22:57,920 --> 01:22:59,760
Speaker 1: look bad. And I was like, wait a second. Steve

1549
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:03,080
Speaker 1: at the time, Steve Kerr, he had keep called Arizona Games.

1550
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:06,920
Speaker 1: You know, Kenny Smith works Carolina, He's Mr Carolina, Like really,

1551
01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:12,120
Speaker 1: So then I look in the Spokane bracket and Oklahoma's

1552
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:16,800
Speaker 1: in it, and I said and I told him, I said, listen,

1553
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:19,200
Speaker 1: if there's any one person who thinks I'm a homer

1554
01:23:19,240 --> 01:23:21,519
Speaker 1: for Oklahoma State, for Travis Ford, who I didn't play for.

1555
01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:24,160
Speaker 1: I'm friendly with, but like I'm not. We're like boys.

1556
01:23:24,280 --> 01:23:26,880
Speaker 1: Like the same people that will think that will think

1557
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:29,280
Speaker 1: that I hate Oklahoma, Like don't you guys are like, oh,

1558
01:23:29,360 --> 01:23:31,400
Speaker 1: we never, we never thought of that. And by the way,

1559
01:23:31,800 --> 01:23:33,880
Speaker 1: Oklahoma end up both of them end up getting beat

1560
01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:35,360
Speaker 1: in the first game. But that's one of the reasons

1561
01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:40,000
Speaker 1: I was watching your regional was because I would have

1562
01:23:40,040 --> 01:23:43,200
Speaker 1: been home for my son's birthday March nine, done all

1563
01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:45,519
Speaker 1: the interviews on the twenty and then senior game on

1564
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:47,320
Speaker 1: the twenty one, and I was mad about I was like, man,

1565
01:23:47,320 --> 01:23:49,160
Speaker 1: I gotta watch the San Diego thing while I was missing,

1566
01:23:49,320 --> 01:23:51,160
Speaker 1: I was like, are you kidding me? I watched the

1567
01:23:51,200 --> 01:23:57,880
Speaker 1: most incredible comeback I've ever seen. Unbelievable. Why, I mean,

1568
01:23:58,240 --> 01:24:01,000
Speaker 1: is it just margin for air? Why? Because it wasn't

1569
01:24:01,080 --> 01:24:02,800
Speaker 1: until two years later. The next year you went and

1570
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:05,200
Speaker 1: lost to Utah. But it wasn't until two years later

1571
01:24:05,680 --> 01:24:09,320
Speaker 1: that you guys were almost unbeatable. Could have been a

1572
01:24:09,479 --> 01:24:11,320
Speaker 1: very easily could have been a Final four team, lost

1573
01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:15,120
Speaker 1: in a ridiculously good game. What was the second he

1574
01:24:15,240 --> 01:24:17,439
Speaker 1: was just harder around the second year was the guys

1575
01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:20,880
Speaker 1: that you lost. What was it? Yea, it was probably

1576
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:23,800
Speaker 1: a combination. Um. It was a year is actually the

1577
01:24:23,840 --> 01:24:26,160
Speaker 1: only year we lost a conference game, so that you

1578
01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:27,479
Speaker 1: could tell there was a little bit more of a

1579
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:30,680
Speaker 1: chink in our armor. Um. And we actually had a

1580
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:33,280
Speaker 1: really bad draw, if we're being honest, in the tournament.

1581
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:35,840
Speaker 1: So we play a team. The thing that bothered us

1582
01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:41,439
Speaker 1: the most was functional size, and we didn't face that

1583
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:47,080
Speaker 1: with VCU that first year. They had some undersized dudes

1584
01:24:47,200 --> 01:24:54,120
Speaker 1: like us, right, and they got Yaka Purtle who was

1585
01:24:54,280 --> 01:24:57,880
Speaker 1: out scoring twenty dominates the game because he can really pass,

1586
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:01,400
Speaker 1: and they got the line right eight and so the

1587
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:03,679
Speaker 1: poor match up our best player playing in the league,

1588
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:06,200
Speaker 1: jac the Parks that goes oh for eight from the

1589
01:25:06,320 --> 01:25:08,680
Speaker 1: field that you know, we only lost by seven. It

1590
01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:11,000
Speaker 1: was a low scoring game. We just couldn't get going offensively.

1591
01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:15,519
Speaker 1: Is that what happened? The Notre Dame game was an

1592
01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:21,760
Speaker 1: unbelievable game. The next year the next year, you're six, um,

1593
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:26,120
Speaker 1: and people have now noticed walk up is making shots.

1594
01:25:27,200 --> 01:25:28,880
Speaker 1: You know, you beat you beat the crap out of

1595
01:25:28,920 --> 01:25:30,960
Speaker 1: a good West Virginia team, which I know was big

1596
01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:34,720
Speaker 1: for for for Brad because it's against Huggy and it's

1597
01:25:34,720 --> 01:25:39,080
Speaker 1: all the same family. It's a former coach. Yep. What's

1598
01:25:39,120 --> 01:25:42,080
Speaker 1: your memories of the Notre Dame game? Oh man, I

1599
01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:44,679
Speaker 1: remember feeling like we were gonna win until we didn't,

1600
01:25:45,280 --> 01:25:47,720
Speaker 1: like you know what I mean, like that like that

1601
01:25:47,960 --> 01:25:51,400
Speaker 1: That was the moment that I realized how cruel the

1602
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:55,840
Speaker 1: finality of the end of the season is. And there

1603
01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:58,360
Speaker 1: was no question in our players minds. We were a

1604
01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:02,880
Speaker 1: second weekend team. Walk Up was good enough to be

1605
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:05,080
Speaker 1: one of the top two or three players on the

1606
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:09,400
Speaker 1: court against anybody, and he had literally had become the

1607
01:26:09,479 --> 01:26:11,880
Speaker 1: face of college basketball for the weekend after he dominated

1608
01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:16,040
Speaker 1: West Virginia. And you know, we we actually played really

1609
01:26:16,120 --> 01:26:20,240
Speaker 1: well and we made shots, We guarded well, and you know,

1610
01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:23,839
Speaker 1: Fluke thing kind of like the way we want against

1611
01:26:23,920 --> 01:26:27,280
Speaker 1: b c U. We're up late. All we gotta do

1612
01:26:27,360 --> 01:26:28,920
Speaker 1: is get to stop. It's the best thing we do

1613
01:26:29,080 --> 01:26:32,720
Speaker 1: is defend. And we forced the shot literally off the

1614
01:26:33,000 --> 01:26:36,639
Speaker 1: side of the backboard. I mean the the side. I'm

1615
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:40,800
Speaker 1: not talking about the face side, the side side, the

1616
01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:43,679
Speaker 1: mistress shot side the backboard. So it takes a funky

1617
01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:47,000
Speaker 1: bounced one of the guys chips to the end and

1618
01:26:47,400 --> 01:26:49,439
Speaker 1: you know we loose. There were a couple of questionable

1619
01:26:49,520 --> 01:26:52,439
Speaker 1: calls in there late, and you know you got that

1620
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:54,720
Speaker 1: going and you always in the back of your mind,

1621
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:57,080
Speaker 1: but you don't give credit to those things. They made

1622
01:26:57,120 --> 01:26:59,120
Speaker 1: a play at the end and and our season was

1623
01:26:59,160 --> 01:27:04,160
Speaker 1: over and that runs over essentially. How long after that

1624
01:27:04,400 --> 01:27:08,280
Speaker 1: did you know Brad was going to Oklahoma State? Well,

1625
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:10,640
Speaker 1: this is a Sunday. If you know anything about the

1626
01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:13,760
Speaker 1: state tournament, you don't have travel plans. You just kind

1627
01:27:13,760 --> 01:27:16,040
Speaker 1: of listening to what they tell you. So we hold

1628
01:27:16,240 --> 01:27:18,360
Speaker 1: we should have tee up for probably two hours. We

1629
01:27:18,479 --> 01:27:20,519
Speaker 1: gotta fly to the street part, so you can't fly

1630
01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:23,280
Speaker 1: to Necrodots. So if we fly the street port, it's

1631
01:27:23,320 --> 01:27:25,320
Speaker 1: like an hour and a half. So we don't get

1632
01:27:25,400 --> 01:27:30,839
Speaker 1: home until I'm gonna guess midnight. Uh, it's a Sunday.

1633
01:27:32,320 --> 01:27:35,320
Speaker 1: Brad's name the Oklahoma State head coach. Monday after soon

1634
01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:39,920
Speaker 1: When did he tell you? Didn't tell me anything? I

1635
01:27:39,960 --> 01:27:44,559
Speaker 1: mean he didn't. So he goes to still Water, Still's

1636
01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:47,680
Speaker 1: done and he comes back and I met with him

1637
01:27:47,720 --> 01:27:49,920
Speaker 1: early because the people were trying to make a plan

1638
01:27:50,240 --> 01:27:52,400
Speaker 1: for me to go through the interview processes for the

1639
01:27:52,439 --> 01:27:55,599
Speaker 1: head coaching job. There Uh. And then we started making

1640
01:27:55,640 --> 01:27:58,880
Speaker 1: plans or you know, how to deal with players there

1641
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 1: and and administration and all that stuff, and and he

1642
01:28:02,360 --> 01:28:05,760
Speaker 1: was off. He was off the store. When did you

1643
01:28:05,840 --> 01:28:08,640
Speaker 1: know you were going with him? I didn't know. I

1644
01:28:09,240 --> 01:28:11,080
Speaker 1: honestly thought I was gonna become the head coach of

1645
01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:14,000
Speaker 1: the Stephen Boston. I really believe that with all my heart.

1646
01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:17,479
Speaker 1: Maybe a little naive, uh, and probably more naive now

1647
01:28:17,560 --> 01:28:19,400
Speaker 1: that I think back, and kind of had all went

1648
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:23,000
Speaker 1: and the rest of the pool candidates, uh, pool of Canada.

1649
01:28:23,080 --> 01:28:25,760
Speaker 1: So I didn't know until after I was told I

1650
01:28:25,840 --> 01:28:28,120
Speaker 1: wasn't you know, gonna be alright? Did I knew I

1651
01:28:28,200 --> 01:28:30,200
Speaker 1: had an opportunity to come if I didn't get a job,

1652
01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:33,280
Speaker 1: So there was some comfort going through the process. Yeah,

1653
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:35,680
Speaker 1: it's interesting because Kyle Keller got the job and he

1654
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:38,200
Speaker 1: was my assistant coach when I played in college, right,

1655
01:28:38,280 --> 01:28:41,639
Speaker 1: Like so it is it's amazing. So you you get

1656
01:28:41,720 --> 01:28:44,760
Speaker 1: to still Water and now you're back in back in

1657
01:28:44,840 --> 01:28:48,720
Speaker 1: high major basketball. What was your first impression of what

1658
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:53,360
Speaker 1: was left for you? Um? I thought it was pretty good. Um.

1659
01:28:53,720 --> 01:28:55,519
Speaker 1: You know, you kind of look at the roster again.

1660
01:28:55,560 --> 01:28:57,439
Speaker 1: So the first thing you look at what who's gonna

1661
01:28:57,439 --> 01:29:00,559
Speaker 1: help you win? You meet players the professionally in the league.

1662
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:05,960
Speaker 1: Do you want coming back? Juan Evans gonna come off

1663
01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:09,640
Speaker 1: his red shirt place fifty year? Uh So starting there

1664
01:29:09,680 --> 01:29:12,880
Speaker 1: with a pretty good back court, pretty good. It didn't

1665
01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:15,680
Speaker 1: have a whole lot of size, Mr Solomon, you mean

1666
01:29:15,760 --> 01:29:21,200
Speaker 1: you mean you mean to Mike, you mean Phil Forte?

1667
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:24,400
Speaker 1: You mean Phil Forte? Do you want Evans? Phil Forte? Was?

1668
01:29:24,680 --> 01:29:26,280
Speaker 1: He had the arm thing right, and so then he

1669
01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:29,920
Speaker 1: he missed it to show the deal. It was pushing

1670
01:29:29,960 --> 01:29:34,519
Speaker 1: the leading before and then Phil Forte, uh coming into

1671
01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:37,519
Speaker 1: his fifth year, you know pretty good. Didn't know if

1672
01:29:37,560 --> 01:29:39,320
Speaker 1: we could win in the league, but thought were gonna

1673
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:43,200
Speaker 1: have a chance to be a competitive team. What was

1674
01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:47,120
Speaker 1: it like because when you got to Stephen f there

1675
01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:50,600
Speaker 1: was already a culture, There was already a toughness and

1676
01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:56,280
Speaker 1: and that really wasn't the case with with with Travis

1677
01:29:56,360 --> 01:30:00,240
Speaker 1: at the end. It was it was. It was It

1678
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:06,080
Speaker 1: was almost a polar opposite terms of guys being brought

1679
01:30:06,160 --> 01:30:09,760
Speaker 1: into winning and you can about works and how to

1680
01:30:09,840 --> 01:30:15,120
Speaker 1: have success buying into it was really really challenging problem,

1681
01:30:15,360 --> 01:30:20,160
Speaker 1: how hardest transition that I've experienced, um in times of basketball.

1682
01:30:21,640 --> 01:30:24,599
Speaker 1: So how long did it take to before it worked?

1683
01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:30,560
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not sure, if I'm being honest, that

1684
01:30:30,680 --> 01:30:33,599
Speaker 1: it ever really flirted as much as we had enough

1685
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:38,560
Speaker 1: challenging to figure out how to win games, because what

1686
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:44,800
Speaker 1: we changed, we didn't change it. We changed. We changed

1687
01:30:45,160 --> 01:30:47,760
Speaker 1: a lot. We changed how we operated, we changed how

1688
01:30:47,880 --> 01:30:52,880
Speaker 1: we played, um And so I don't know if we really,

1689
01:30:55,080 --> 01:30:58,040
Speaker 1: you know, for a long term standpoint, did anything that

1690
01:30:58,200 --> 01:31:00,880
Speaker 1: year that really put some position to half success on time?

1691
01:31:02,360 --> 01:31:04,439
Speaker 1: Because you went from you went from pressuring, you went

1692
01:31:04,479 --> 01:31:08,920
Speaker 1: from pressuring everything. You went from pressuring everything to like

1693
01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:13,320
Speaker 1: pack lining everything, right, you change your offense and change everything. Yeah,

1694
01:31:14,680 --> 01:31:16,680
Speaker 1: and you went like ten out of eleven at at

1695
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:19,960
Speaker 1: at one stretch from stuck into the tournament and lost

1696
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:22,960
Speaker 1: an unbelievable game to to Michigan, just like a remarkable

1697
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:27,639
Speaker 1: game to Michigan. Okay, So then Brad leaves and goes

1698
01:31:27,800 --> 01:31:31,840
Speaker 1: to Illinois and stuns people. How did you find that

1699
01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:35,240
Speaker 1: one out? I was literally in my car with my

1700
01:31:35,320 --> 01:31:38,599
Speaker 1: wife to day after the season in Oklahoma City, UM,

1701
01:31:39,080 --> 01:31:41,400
Speaker 1: and I was starting to get these texts and calls

1702
01:31:41,439 --> 01:31:44,000
Speaker 1: from these national media guys, and you didn't know why.

1703
01:31:45,080 --> 01:31:47,080
Speaker 1: And then earlier in the day, I had gotten a

1704
01:31:47,240 --> 01:31:48,960
Speaker 1: text message that we were going to have a meeting,

1705
01:31:49,240 --> 01:31:51,360
Speaker 1: which was strange because the season had just ended the

1706
01:31:51,439 --> 01:31:54,200
Speaker 1: day before. We're on spring breaks and none of the

1707
01:31:54,280 --> 01:31:56,240
Speaker 1: players are here. I can see it. It's over. Was

1708
01:31:56,240 --> 01:31:59,240
Speaker 1: gonna meet when spring breaks done, We'll come back, you know.

1709
01:31:59,680 --> 01:32:03,320
Speaker 1: So a LOTOK, two strange things that happened, and you

1710
01:32:03,400 --> 01:32:05,479
Speaker 1: know I found out well, I went to Twitter not

1711
01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:09,320
Speaker 1: long after I started getting those calls from you know, jefficman,

1712
01:32:10,000 --> 01:32:12,080
Speaker 1: Matt Nolan is in the world, and I saw that

1713
01:32:12,280 --> 01:32:15,440
Speaker 1: the rumors were what the rumors were, and and ultimately

1714
01:32:15,800 --> 01:32:20,479
Speaker 1: that they were true. So you know, then then let's

1715
01:32:20,560 --> 01:32:23,400
Speaker 1: just like craziness, right, I mean obviously was a part

1716
01:32:23,439 --> 01:32:28,400
Speaker 1: of it. Yes, um, you had thought you were gonna

1717
01:32:28,400 --> 01:32:31,559
Speaker 1: get the Stephen f job. You didn't. Did you think

1718
01:32:31,600 --> 01:32:34,479
Speaker 1: you're gonna get get the oaklhom State job? No? I

1719
01:32:34,560 --> 01:32:37,000
Speaker 1: never thought about being the head coach at Olklhoma State.

1720
01:32:39,960 --> 01:32:42,800
Speaker 1: It never even crossed my mind. When when it was

1721
01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:46,519
Speaker 1: open um, the first thing I thought was I'm a

1722
01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:48,360
Speaker 1: elkinga say that I need to get back to Stillwater

1723
01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:52,240
Speaker 1: and figure out, you know, when Brad's leaving and if

1724
01:32:52,280 --> 01:32:53,600
Speaker 1: I need to get get ready to get on the

1725
01:32:53,640 --> 01:32:58,759
Speaker 1: plane with and move the champaign. Um. And then because

1726
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:00,720
Speaker 1: I wasn't there, I didn't have an oportunity to be

1727
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:03,719
Speaker 1: at the meeting where he told everyone and the athletic director.

1728
01:33:03,800 --> 01:33:05,360
Speaker 1: My colder was there and so I didn't have a

1729
01:33:05,439 --> 01:33:08,639
Speaker 1: chance to talk to him either. So I'm in the office.

1730
01:33:08,720 --> 01:33:11,080
Speaker 1: This is a Saturday that this all happens. The next day,

1731
01:33:11,720 --> 01:33:14,280
Speaker 1: I see my colder in the weight room and just

1732
01:33:14,760 --> 01:33:16,960
Speaker 1: he just says, Hey, when you're done, come up and talk.

1733
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:19,400
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, this goes back to me in my

1734
01:33:19,479 --> 01:33:21,760
Speaker 1: South Toronic days. He just wants his keys in his

1735
01:33:21,880 --> 01:33:26,800
Speaker 1: car back, you know. Um, and you know, any kind

1736
01:33:26,840 --> 01:33:28,960
Speaker 1: of goes on and actually stuff about how what I

1737
01:33:29,040 --> 01:33:33,000
Speaker 1: think about the program? Uh, and asked if I think

1738
01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:36,960
Speaker 1: I can do the job, and totally caught me off guard.

1739
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:39,519
Speaker 1: Not too much off guard that I didn't say yes,

1740
01:33:39,560 --> 01:33:41,560
Speaker 1: I think I could do the job, but caught me

1741
01:33:41,600 --> 01:33:45,360
Speaker 1: off guard that that was a question. Um. And you

1742
01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:49,519
Speaker 1: know I was a Tuesday or Monday, huh, whatever it was,

1743
01:33:49,720 --> 01:33:52,240
Speaker 1: and my Friday I was named the head coach. I

1744
01:33:52,360 --> 01:33:55,920
Speaker 1: can state. Yeah, so that Thursday was when they told

1745
01:33:55,960 --> 01:33:57,760
Speaker 1: you I think right, we had or maybe it was.

1746
01:33:57,840 --> 01:34:01,280
Speaker 1: Maybe it's Friday morning, so I had to interview Thursday.

1747
01:34:02,160 --> 01:34:05,240
Speaker 1: Think all the interviews with Thursday. I gotta call early

1748
01:34:05,400 --> 01:34:08,920
Speaker 1: Friday morning from coach Holder asking if I can meet

1749
01:34:09,000 --> 01:34:11,080
Speaker 1: him at the office, like six thirty in the morning.

1750
01:34:11,720 --> 01:34:15,360
Speaker 1: Kind of freaked me out. And I get there and

1751
01:34:15,640 --> 01:34:18,360
Speaker 1: you know, you would appreciate this in his own way,

1752
01:34:18,800 --> 01:34:21,040
Speaker 1: you know. Coach Holder comes and says, I just had

1753
01:34:21,040 --> 01:34:24,360
Speaker 1: a couple of follow up questions, and he literally asked

1754
01:34:24,520 --> 01:34:29,599
Speaker 1: me something about, uh, maybe i've met him, something about

1755
01:34:30,600 --> 01:34:33,760
Speaker 1: commit to the school or loyalty or something like that,

1756
01:34:33,960 --> 01:34:38,000
Speaker 1: and about staffing, and he asked me those two questions.

1757
01:34:38,080 --> 01:34:40,120
Speaker 1: It's like six because I just stow some stuff on

1758
01:34:40,160 --> 01:34:43,000
Speaker 1: and gonna meet him, Like you do whatever you gotta do, right,

1759
01:34:43,439 --> 01:34:45,800
Speaker 1: So it's six fifty in the morning. He asked me

1760
01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:48,040
Speaker 1: two questions and he gets up and leaves the room.

1761
01:34:49,400 --> 01:34:52,760
Speaker 1: I like, is that in? Because he never tame back.

1762
01:34:53,439 --> 01:34:56,240
Speaker 1: So so I go get my kids ready for school.

1763
01:34:56,680 --> 01:34:58,320
Speaker 1: I get a call again a few hours later that

1764
01:34:58,320 --> 01:35:00,840
Speaker 1: I need to go meet with the president. It wasn't

1765
01:35:00,880 --> 01:35:02,640
Speaker 1: any interviews the day before. I think he was out

1766
01:35:02,680 --> 01:35:04,680
Speaker 1: of town or something like that. That the first time

1767
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:07,640
Speaker 1: I thought, well, maybe maybe this as well, because it's

1768
01:35:07,680 --> 01:35:11,280
Speaker 1: still haven't some best myself. So I'm gonna get the job, right,

1769
01:35:12,560 --> 01:35:19,560
Speaker 1: still cautiously optimistic, but more cautious than optimistic. So then so,

1770
01:35:20,560 --> 01:35:23,080
Speaker 1: so you meet with the president. He tells you're getting

1771
01:35:23,080 --> 01:35:27,840
Speaker 1: the job. The president just doesn't tell me to meet

1772
01:35:27,840 --> 01:35:31,240
Speaker 1: with the president, um and hold her and he had.

1773
01:35:31,479 --> 01:35:33,760
Speaker 1: The President has some questions again because he wasn't in

1774
01:35:33,840 --> 01:35:36,519
Speaker 1: the interview. Uh. And then I leave and they say, hey,

1775
01:35:36,640 --> 01:35:39,519
Speaker 1: well we hope to have this wrapped up soon. Somebody

1776
01:35:39,560 --> 01:35:42,120
Speaker 1: will be in touch with you. Either way. Coach Holder

1777
01:35:42,240 --> 01:35:45,519
Speaker 1: called me probably about an hour or two later, I

1778
01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:53,480
Speaker 1: can remember his early afternoon. Who's the first phone call you, mad? Uh? Honestly,

1779
01:35:54,479 --> 01:35:57,280
Speaker 1: I don't know if I called anybody immediately. Just so

1780
01:35:57,439 --> 01:35:59,519
Speaker 1: much stuff that they wanted to do because this stuff

1781
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:02,040
Speaker 1: happens so fast, they wanted to get their messaging out.

1782
01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:05,040
Speaker 1: So I immediately get called to my S I d

1783
01:36:05,200 --> 01:36:07,920
Speaker 1: s office, and then I get told, hey, we've got

1784
01:36:08,000 --> 01:36:10,240
Speaker 1: some players here. We want you to talk to them

1785
01:36:10,280 --> 01:36:13,519
Speaker 1: before we put anything out, so come back. And I'm

1786
01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:16,040
Speaker 1: sitting back in Coach Holder's office talking to a couple

1787
01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:19,360
Speaker 1: of players about thirty minutes later, and I realized that

1788
01:36:19,439 --> 01:36:21,320
Speaker 1: I just gave you okay for for the s I

1789
01:36:21,400 --> 01:36:23,479
Speaker 1: b s to put it out. I haven't caught my

1790
01:36:23,520 --> 01:36:34,280
Speaker 1: wife yet, so I called my life. She's freaking out

1791
01:36:34,479 --> 01:36:38,800
Speaker 1: because she's hurt already, and so you know, I don't

1792
01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:40,560
Speaker 1: even necessarily get a chance to break the news or

1793
01:36:40,640 --> 01:36:43,680
Speaker 1: I'm still paying for that to this day. By the way, um,

1794
01:36:43,760 --> 01:36:45,800
Speaker 1: the first phone call and made outside of that was

1795
01:36:46,439 --> 01:36:49,080
Speaker 1: when I actually they want to take pictures and do

1796
01:36:49,200 --> 01:36:51,400
Speaker 1: the stuff at the faceball game that night. So I'm like,

1797
01:36:51,439 --> 01:36:55,040
Speaker 1: I gotta go change. I'm not stressed or a photo

1798
01:36:55,240 --> 01:36:56,720
Speaker 1: shoot or anything like this, and when we get a

1799
01:36:56,760 --> 01:36:59,080
Speaker 1: coaching tie and all that stuff. So on my way home,

1800
01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:02,280
Speaker 1: I called Dad and that's just literally how the conversation goes.

1801
01:37:02,880 --> 01:37:05,160
Speaker 1: My Dad answered the phone. I say, hey, I have

1802
01:37:05,479 --> 01:37:09,240
Speaker 1: five minutes, but I wanted to let you know. I

1803
01:37:09,320 --> 01:37:12,519
Speaker 1: know my dad. He's gonna he has been like he's

1804
01:37:12,560 --> 01:37:14,760
Speaker 1: like a bullhorn. Everyone else in the family is gonna know.

1805
01:37:14,840 --> 01:37:18,439
Speaker 1: Once he knows I just became just was named the

1806
01:37:18,479 --> 01:37:22,120
Speaker 1: head coach at Oklahoma State. He proceeds to like scream

1807
01:37:22,240 --> 01:37:25,880
Speaker 1: for about forty five seconds, and I say, you got

1808
01:37:25,960 --> 01:37:28,840
Speaker 1: that make sure, you let everybody know, Dad my five

1809
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:31,160
Speaker 1: minutes up, hang up, And I didn't talk to him

1810
01:37:31,160 --> 01:37:39,200
Speaker 1: again toil the next day. Um, so you've been an

1811
01:37:39,200 --> 01:37:42,759
Speaker 1: assistant forever, you've been an associate head coach. How different

1812
01:37:42,920 --> 01:37:46,080
Speaker 1: was it? How different was it to have It wasn't

1813
01:37:46,200 --> 01:37:50,920
Speaker 1: just to have your own program, um, but like like

1814
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:52,680
Speaker 1: now you get to do whatever you want to do now.

1815
01:37:52,760 --> 01:37:55,280
Speaker 1: It was a little bit different because you had a couple.

1816
01:37:55,479 --> 01:37:57,839
Speaker 1: You had Desagua, you had ever Read who you recruited

1817
01:37:57,920 --> 01:38:01,719
Speaker 1: it Stephen f. You had Lyndy and you had McGriff

1818
01:38:01,720 --> 01:38:03,840
Speaker 1: who you recruited at steven F. So you had some guys,

1819
01:38:04,479 --> 01:38:07,800
Speaker 1: but you didn't really have many freshman incoming. So there

1820
01:38:07,920 --> 01:38:10,640
Speaker 1: was still some Travis guys. There were some guys that

1821
01:38:10,760 --> 01:38:12,760
Speaker 1: you and Brad had brought in together. Like what was that?

1822
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:14,240
Speaker 1: What was it like to be a head coach of

1823
01:38:14,280 --> 01:38:17,840
Speaker 1: the team. Yeah, it was, it was. It was weird.

1824
01:38:18,160 --> 01:38:20,840
Speaker 1: But what I tried to do was, and this is

1825
01:38:20,920 --> 01:38:23,240
Speaker 1: probably a mistaker, to try to continue to operate as

1826
01:38:23,320 --> 01:38:27,960
Speaker 1: I had and just I was eighteen hour day guy.

1827
01:38:28,160 --> 01:38:30,280
Speaker 1: You know, he's just burn the candle at both ends.

1828
01:38:30,320 --> 01:38:32,400
Speaker 1: And he figured out as you go and try to

1829
01:38:32,439 --> 01:38:37,120
Speaker 1: continue to maintain those same relationships, but all of a sudden,

1830
01:38:37,560 --> 01:38:41,439
Speaker 1: there's many more people who want a piece at that time.

1831
01:38:41,920 --> 01:38:44,360
Speaker 1: All right, he's got media, you've got boosters, you've got

1832
01:38:44,680 --> 01:38:48,880
Speaker 1: former players, you've got administration. Uh, and so starting to

1833
01:38:48,960 --> 01:38:50,880
Speaker 1: try to figure out how to balance all that was

1834
01:38:50,920 --> 01:38:54,280
Speaker 1: a really real challenge early on, besides the fact that

1835
01:38:54,720 --> 01:38:56,800
Speaker 1: it's not like my hiring was met with a whole

1836
01:38:56,840 --> 01:39:00,160
Speaker 1: lot of praise, a right about of skepticism and and

1837
01:39:00,240 --> 01:39:03,400
Speaker 1: criticism even when I was initially highest. So just trying

1838
01:39:03,400 --> 01:39:05,960
Speaker 1: to introduce myself to people and let them know, hey,

1839
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:10,880
Speaker 1: they didn't hire like a statue, Like I'm a real person.

1840
01:39:11,080 --> 01:39:14,160
Speaker 1: I actually can articulate things, and I think I communicate

1841
01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:16,840
Speaker 1: well with people. I try to make our guys better.

1842
01:39:17,200 --> 01:39:23,280
Speaker 1: But had to start creating an image of myself, which

1843
01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:26,280
Speaker 1: for me was just being myself, but getting myself out

1844
01:39:26,360 --> 01:39:28,960
Speaker 1: there in the public for people to kind of get

1845
01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:33,200
Speaker 1: to know me. Your your first year was wild, obviously

1846
01:39:33,360 --> 01:39:37,080
Speaker 1: because they were the upsets, the upsets that people saw, right,

1847
01:39:37,120 --> 01:39:39,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you beat Kansas Kansas, and I know you

1848
01:39:39,040 --> 01:39:42,439
Speaker 1: know this, but any siding never won at Kansas ever ever.

1849
01:39:43,280 --> 01:39:45,080
Speaker 1: And your first year you go in there and they're

1850
01:39:45,200 --> 01:39:48,040
Speaker 1: really good and you beat them, and this is and

1851
01:39:48,120 --> 01:39:50,280
Speaker 1: this was after and you had lost like three in

1852
01:39:50,320 --> 01:39:53,600
Speaker 1: a row, and I would I would watch and like

1853
01:39:54,000 --> 01:39:57,640
Speaker 1: gotten jails kicked at home against Temcu, which was the

1854
01:39:57,800 --> 01:40:00,160
Speaker 1: third of a three game loser Street because he had

1855
01:40:00,240 --> 01:40:06,080
Speaker 1: lost at Texas and at Arkansas the week before. And

1856
01:40:06,240 --> 01:40:08,599
Speaker 1: we're playing without a start of tar shot and heard

1857
01:40:08,640 --> 01:40:11,600
Speaker 1: his back, so he's not even gonna play. How did

1858
01:40:11,600 --> 01:40:16,080
Speaker 1: you do it? And I think our guys are just

1859
01:40:16,200 --> 01:40:19,360
Speaker 1: to try about the opportunity. Um, you knew how good

1860
01:40:19,439 --> 01:40:22,320
Speaker 1: they were, you know, you always it's naturally get get

1861
01:40:22,479 --> 01:40:25,040
Speaker 1: more excited and more focused to play against the better teams.

1862
01:40:25,120 --> 01:40:27,479
Speaker 1: But we played with a great, great desire and will

1863
01:40:27,800 --> 01:40:31,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll be honest. The game we won, but

1864
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:35,280
Speaker 1: we we really dominated the game. I mean it got

1865
01:40:35,360 --> 01:40:37,479
Speaker 1: close late. You know, you get a whistles that go

1866
01:40:37,560 --> 01:40:40,360
Speaker 1: back against you. You're hoping that you can hold it off. Um,

1867
01:40:40,520 --> 01:40:43,559
Speaker 1: but we we we really dominated the game. And our

1868
01:40:43,600 --> 01:40:46,679
Speaker 1: kids are just locked in. Played well. Kendall Smith played

1869
01:40:46,720 --> 01:40:49,559
Speaker 1: exceptional there, Jeff Carol was good and cam m Griffin

1870
01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:53,240
Speaker 1: was phenomenal at their place. Yeah, and then I mean,

1871
01:40:53,439 --> 01:40:55,479
Speaker 1: and then you roll them again, at your place, I mean,

1872
01:40:55,840 --> 01:41:00,960
Speaker 1: Rolls beat him eighteen that they didn't have a comeback

1873
01:41:01,000 --> 01:41:03,519
Speaker 1: in him. In our place, Mr Silin was out of

1874
01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:06,599
Speaker 1: his mind, played probably the best game of his life. Um,

1875
01:41:07,200 --> 01:41:09,479
Speaker 1: you know, he's making threes, he's talking on folks, and

1876
01:41:09,960 --> 01:41:11,400
Speaker 1: you know, it was a senior day for our guys.

1877
01:41:11,479 --> 01:41:13,960
Speaker 1: We had some seniors who really meant a lot too too,

1878
01:41:14,520 --> 01:41:16,120
Speaker 1: you know. And and I'll be honest, we thought we

1879
01:41:16,200 --> 01:41:18,280
Speaker 1: were playing for a DNS a time of bid um.

1880
01:41:18,360 --> 01:41:21,519
Speaker 1: We thought if we had swept him and and uh

1881
01:41:22,120 --> 01:41:25,160
Speaker 1: and beat him the way we did, we thought, no,

1882
01:41:25,400 --> 01:41:27,240
Speaker 1: I told those guys, should be last time you played

1883
01:41:27,400 --> 01:41:29,600
Speaker 1: in front of this crowd. So we thought we were

1884
01:41:29,600 --> 01:41:30,920
Speaker 1: going to be an s a turn of the team.

1885
01:41:31,920 --> 01:41:34,240
Speaker 1: So to to go from, you know, and then a

1886
01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:36,320
Speaker 1: week later he lost to Kansas. The third time you

1887
01:41:36,360 --> 01:41:39,160
Speaker 1: played him, he kind of ran the gas. But to

1888
01:41:39,280 --> 01:41:43,880
Speaker 1: go from that moment where you got hired, when people

1889
01:41:43,920 --> 01:41:47,280
Speaker 1: are questioning you, I mean, should I'm pissed. You know,

1890
01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:51,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, man, what a two? Now? You were like

1891
01:41:51,439 --> 01:41:56,880
Speaker 1: America's sweetheart, Like I'm watching on selection Sunday, and you know,

1892
01:41:57,080 --> 01:41:59,800
Speaker 1: VI tells, oh, you gotta put him in. You gotta

1893
01:42:00,560 --> 01:42:04,920
Speaker 1: everybody is like, you have to and then obviously you

1894
01:42:05,000 --> 01:42:07,439
Speaker 1: didn't get in. But what what is what is that

1895
01:42:07,600 --> 01:42:10,880
Speaker 1: do you have? Is there is there a time during

1896
01:42:10,920 --> 01:42:16,599
Speaker 1: that period of time where you're able to uh get

1897
01:42:16,640 --> 01:42:19,680
Speaker 1: the juxtaposition of how it started at the start of

1898
01:42:19,720 --> 01:42:24,320
Speaker 1: the year too to that moment. No, I probably didn't

1899
01:42:24,360 --> 01:42:27,519
Speaker 1: get it honestly until about maybe a week and a

1900
01:42:27,560 --> 01:42:30,200
Speaker 1: half two weeks later, because I felt that from the

1901
01:42:30,240 --> 01:42:32,960
Speaker 1: people who probably would the most skeptical, what's for Oklahoma

1902
01:42:33,000 --> 01:42:34,680
Speaker 1: State fans? I think there were people outside of the

1903
01:42:34,760 --> 01:42:37,240
Speaker 1: program that was skeptical, but no one really cares, right

1904
01:42:37,640 --> 01:42:40,640
Speaker 1: Bokahoma State made it bad higher uh too bad for them.

1905
01:42:40,720 --> 01:42:42,800
Speaker 1: But the people that were invested in the program that

1906
01:42:42,960 --> 01:42:45,439
Speaker 1: really were worried about whether they were invested in the program,

1907
01:42:45,479 --> 01:42:47,920
Speaker 1: and that was about to go down in flames, you know,

1908
01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:49,880
Speaker 1: because they hired a bad person or a bad coach

1909
01:42:50,000 --> 01:42:53,720
Speaker 1: or whatever it was to see them. Then once we

1910
01:42:53,960 --> 01:42:57,280
Speaker 1: didn't get into the tournament, we had eleven thousand, five

1911
01:42:57,640 --> 01:43:00,960
Speaker 1: d people short in that t game on Spring on Wednesday.

1912
01:43:02,720 --> 01:43:04,479
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that was the moment where I

1913
01:43:04,560 --> 01:43:08,360
Speaker 1: felt like, Okay, they believe in me and what we're

1914
01:43:08,400 --> 01:43:11,000
Speaker 1: trying to do again, and we're gonna have a chance

1915
01:43:11,040 --> 01:43:14,800
Speaker 1: to have successful long time. I mean in all of this,

1916
01:43:15,000 --> 01:43:17,720
Speaker 1: of course, and you had then you have the the

1917
01:43:18,280 --> 01:43:20,880
Speaker 1: uh the FBI thing too, write. I mean that that

1918
01:43:21,040 --> 01:43:25,280
Speaker 1: part is crazy f ideal. In December, literally at the

1919
01:43:25,360 --> 01:43:28,920
Speaker 1: end of one semester, I smiss probably have two best athletes, uh,

1920
01:43:29,120 --> 01:43:33,479
Speaker 1: Davon Villa and Zack Dawson. Uh. And you know, Flo Maho.

1921
01:43:33,600 --> 01:43:35,720
Speaker 1: We go the next day and be a really good

1922
01:43:35,960 --> 01:43:39,519
Speaker 1: and top twenty ranked Florida state team and Ours Bowl.

1923
01:43:40,000 --> 01:43:41,400
Speaker 1: And that was a moment where I felt like we

1924
01:43:41,439 --> 01:43:43,479
Speaker 1: had the right kind of guys to give us a

1925
01:43:43,560 --> 01:43:47,320
Speaker 1: chance to have success. Okay, so then last year to

1926
01:43:47,439 --> 01:43:51,880
Speaker 1: walk in and now of a sudden, those older guys

1927
01:43:51,920 --> 01:43:55,560
Speaker 1: are gone. You take you take a grad transfer in

1928
01:43:55,800 --> 01:43:58,640
Speaker 1: Mike Cunningham. You had Michael Weathers sitting out, who was

1929
01:43:58,800 --> 01:44:01,479
Speaker 1: all freshman team kids you know who played for one

1930
01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:04,920
Speaker 1: of your assistants at minat Ohio, Curtis Jones, who's been

1931
01:44:04,920 --> 01:44:08,040
Speaker 1: sitting out as as a transfer like so you had

1932
01:44:08,600 --> 01:44:09,920
Speaker 1: you know, look, and this is the way you gotta

1933
01:44:09,920 --> 01:44:11,240
Speaker 1: do it now is you gotta take some transfers. You

1934
01:44:11,280 --> 01:44:13,240
Speaker 1: gotta take a fifth year you gotta get some good freshman.

1935
01:44:14,240 --> 01:44:16,479
Speaker 1: What did you think you had coming into last season.

1936
01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:21,719
Speaker 1: I wasn't really sure, but I thought we had more talent,

1937
01:44:22,360 --> 01:44:24,760
Speaker 1: I really did. I thought we had more talent. I

1938
01:44:24,880 --> 01:44:27,479
Speaker 1: thought we had more depth. Uh. And I thought we

1939
01:44:27,520 --> 01:44:30,240
Speaker 1: had a team back to the game compete uh with

1940
01:44:30,400 --> 01:44:32,479
Speaker 1: with anybody, you know, if we prepared the right way

1941
01:44:32,520 --> 01:44:35,439
Speaker 1: and continue to develop the guys. UH. The thing I

1942
01:44:35,560 --> 01:44:40,040
Speaker 1: didn't probably calculate enough since is you know, maturity is

1943
01:44:40,080 --> 01:44:43,679
Speaker 1: probably more important than age. Uh. I talked about age

1944
01:44:43,720 --> 01:44:46,000
Speaker 1: a lot, and it was actually maturity or lack of

1945
01:44:46,080 --> 01:44:48,600
Speaker 1: maturity that really hurt us obviously, you know, some of

1946
01:44:48,680 --> 01:44:51,479
Speaker 1: the things that are publicly known decision making from our

1947
01:44:51,520 --> 01:44:54,840
Speaker 1: players really really came to bite us. And it was

1948
01:44:54,920 --> 01:44:57,240
Speaker 1: something that really really helped me reflect on how I

1949
01:44:57,280 --> 01:45:01,160
Speaker 1: wanted to recalibrate things going into this year. You know,

1950
01:45:01,400 --> 01:45:06,160
Speaker 1: it's interesting because, like the cliche is, well, it teams

1951
01:45:06,200 --> 01:45:08,880
Speaker 1: the reflection of their coach. But I've never heard anyone

1952
01:45:09,040 --> 01:45:14,400
Speaker 1: say like, Okay, he's he curses, he's drunk, he's this.

1953
01:45:14,640 --> 01:45:19,719
Speaker 1: Like literally, I mean I can't find a personal work

1954
01:45:19,920 --> 01:45:22,280
Speaker 1: with with you, you know, from people who know you

1955
01:45:22,720 --> 01:45:25,720
Speaker 1: and around you all the time. And yet you have

1956
01:45:25,920 --> 01:45:27,800
Speaker 1: and that you have a team full of guys, and

1957
01:45:28,000 --> 01:45:30,280
Speaker 1: and again, most of them are not major. Things like

1958
01:45:30,280 --> 01:45:32,160
Speaker 1: a couple of guys with a bb gun shooting out

1959
01:45:32,200 --> 01:45:34,280
Speaker 1: a window is in the grand scheme of things in

1960
01:45:34,320 --> 01:45:37,200
Speaker 1: comparison to other things even happen to local the state.

1961
01:45:37,320 --> 01:45:40,479
Speaker 1: It's very very minor. But what what's that like to

1962
01:45:40,600 --> 01:45:43,200
Speaker 1: be a guy who, like you've never been accused of

1963
01:45:43,240 --> 01:45:47,559
Speaker 1: recruiting violation ever, to have that as a reflection when

1964
01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:49,960
Speaker 1: you know that that's not really a reflection of who

1965
01:45:50,040 --> 01:45:52,800
Speaker 1: you are and what you're about. It's hard to me

1966
01:45:53,800 --> 01:45:58,240
Speaker 1: because you know the kids, you spent time with their families,

1967
01:45:58,680 --> 01:46:03,840
Speaker 1: and it's actually, you know, more challenging when it feels

1968
01:46:03,880 --> 01:46:07,559
Speaker 1: like it's maybe people more now than it was twenty

1969
01:46:07,640 --> 01:46:12,320
Speaker 1: years ago, and it becomes like it's personal about you. Uh,

1970
01:46:12,760 --> 01:46:15,040
Speaker 1: But I get it. I'm a big boy. I'm involved

1971
01:46:15,080 --> 01:46:19,840
Speaker 1: in and you know, highly visible competitive athletics, and that's

1972
01:46:19,880 --> 01:46:21,600
Speaker 1: part of it. And what I try to do is

1973
01:46:21,640 --> 01:46:24,080
Speaker 1: focus on the things that you know, as a staff,

1974
01:46:24,240 --> 01:46:26,400
Speaker 1: as as a program we can do to get better

1975
01:46:26,880 --> 01:46:29,639
Speaker 1: and a voice the most pitfalls. And I truly believe

1976
01:46:29,760 --> 01:46:31,840
Speaker 1: that because of some of the things that I went

1977
01:46:31,960 --> 01:46:35,479
Speaker 1: through personally when our program went through UM over the

1978
01:46:35,600 --> 01:46:38,880
Speaker 1: last year really going to help us UM be able

1979
01:46:38,920 --> 01:46:43,639
Speaker 1: to be really really solid and more aware of moing forward. UM.

1980
01:46:43,880 --> 01:46:47,040
Speaker 1: You've changed your staff, and then you have you have

1981
01:46:47,200 --> 01:46:49,760
Speaker 1: like three things going on here right, Like you have

1982
01:46:50,400 --> 01:46:53,960
Speaker 1: the older group that's all back, those three seniors McGriff,

1983
01:46:54,439 --> 01:46:57,120
Speaker 1: Lynda Waters and Thomas Dosagua, who was the guy I

1984
01:46:57,200 --> 01:46:59,720
Speaker 1: was talking about earlier who went from like, man, how

1985
01:46:59,760 --> 01:47:01,559
Speaker 1: do we hide this guy and get him out there too?

1986
01:47:01,840 --> 01:47:05,160
Speaker 1: He's such a weapon because he's just I mean just,

1987
01:47:05,680 --> 01:47:07,960
Speaker 1: I mean like he can shoot. He's a dudeho will

1988
01:47:08,000 --> 01:47:09,880
Speaker 1: never get out of any time that they shoot for

1989
01:47:09,920 --> 01:47:12,040
Speaker 1: a pickup game. He will be in the pickup game

1990
01:47:12,320 --> 01:47:15,080
Speaker 1: because he's an unbelievable shooter, unbelieve worker. And then you

1991
01:47:15,200 --> 01:47:18,920
Speaker 1: got uh Isaac who had a terrific year and an

1992
01:47:18,960 --> 01:47:21,720
Speaker 1: even better summer. And then you're a name who, for

1993
01:47:21,840 --> 01:47:24,519
Speaker 1: my money, like that's what an NBA center looks like

1994
01:47:24,680 --> 01:47:27,840
Speaker 1: as a freshman potentially, because he's just he's got the

1995
01:47:27,960 --> 01:47:30,640
Speaker 1: natural gifts of understanding, rim, protection and movement. And if

1996
01:47:30,680 --> 01:47:33,920
Speaker 1: he continues to develop, and then you have this remarkable

1997
01:47:34,080 --> 01:47:37,320
Speaker 1: group of incoming freshman I mean you have to be

1998
01:47:38,280 --> 01:47:40,040
Speaker 1: You've got to be super excited. Like I know you're

1999
01:47:40,040 --> 01:47:43,599
Speaker 1: already practicing, but what's your level of excitement now as

2000
01:47:43,600 --> 01:47:47,000
Speaker 1: compared to what you thought you had last year? Oh? Man,

2001
01:47:47,560 --> 01:47:51,479
Speaker 1: I feel so much more comfortable that we're building it

2002
01:47:52,080 --> 01:47:56,320
Speaker 1: with guys who believe in what our program values. Um

2003
01:47:56,560 --> 01:47:58,760
Speaker 1: And I say that, And I don't mean anything bad

2004
01:47:58,800 --> 01:48:01,000
Speaker 1: about the kids I recruited him. I'll still care about them.

2005
01:48:01,439 --> 01:48:03,559
Speaker 1: Might have had time to evaluate these kids, We all

2006
01:48:03,600 --> 01:48:06,200
Speaker 1: the all in periods of time. I know their families well,

2007
01:48:06,520 --> 01:48:08,880
Speaker 1: I know their backgrounds, I know a cat what they're

2008
01:48:08,920 --> 01:48:11,160
Speaker 1: made up. I know they care about winning. Uh. And

2009
01:48:11,240 --> 01:48:13,400
Speaker 1: the messaging to those guys have been a part of

2010
01:48:13,600 --> 01:48:15,680
Speaker 1: what happened, and we're not going to continue to but

2011
01:48:15,760 --> 01:48:18,519
Speaker 1: have those type of bad decision makers in our program.

2012
01:48:18,640 --> 01:48:21,080
Speaker 1: So again, I think that's part of the reason why

2013
01:48:21,120 --> 01:48:24,360
Speaker 1: we feel good about last year helping us have successful

2014
01:48:24,479 --> 01:48:28,640
Speaker 1: forward because we learned how to better manage things internally.

2015
01:48:29,200 --> 01:48:31,479
Speaker 1: And so I'm excited about again. We've got a really

2016
01:48:31,560 --> 01:48:34,280
Speaker 1: strong group of freshmen who are really talented, but the

2017
01:48:34,360 --> 01:48:37,880
Speaker 1: expectations are not of control from a personal standpoint. They

2018
01:48:37,960 --> 01:48:39,800
Speaker 1: know they're coming in and they have to work. They

2019
01:48:40,000 --> 01:48:42,960
Speaker 1: understand that things aren't gonna be easy and that things

2020
01:48:43,080 --> 01:48:45,280
Speaker 1: may not go their way all the time. And then

2021
01:48:45,360 --> 01:48:48,679
Speaker 1: the leadership that I have amongst our three primary scene

2022
01:48:48,760 --> 01:48:51,560
Speaker 1: isn't got another one got transferring Jonathan la Rents, but

2023
01:48:51,640 --> 01:48:54,759
Speaker 1: between Thomas let me a cam. So those guys truly

2024
01:48:54,840 --> 01:48:58,000
Speaker 1: understand everything that takes to have success, and they have

2025
01:48:58,080 --> 01:49:01,360
Speaker 1: an awareness of the things that can be pitfalls because

2026
01:49:01,400 --> 01:49:04,760
Speaker 1: they've been around a lot of them. So in terms

2027
01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:07,479
Speaker 1: of managing that stuff better, how do you do so

2028
01:49:08,960 --> 01:49:12,120
Speaker 1: well this communication be very clear and what I expect

2029
01:49:12,200 --> 01:49:14,640
Speaker 1: chase it is and don't wait. I think part of

2030
01:49:14,680 --> 01:49:18,080
Speaker 1: the reason, you know, maybe we didn't um have more

2031
01:49:18,120 --> 01:49:21,000
Speaker 1: success putting out fires before because we let them. We

2032
01:49:21,120 --> 01:49:22,800
Speaker 1: let them blaze a little bit too long, you know,

2033
01:49:22,960 --> 01:49:26,080
Speaker 1: we didn't let things in the butt early. Whereas now

2034
01:49:26,240 --> 01:49:30,120
Speaker 1: we see things and we got more internal leadership. Our

2035
01:49:30,200 --> 01:49:32,680
Speaker 1: seniors are being more vocal about the things that are

2036
01:49:32,960 --> 01:49:36,599
Speaker 1: that are unacceptable with in our program, being on times

2037
01:49:36,600 --> 01:49:39,639
Speaker 1: and things, making sure you're respectful of people on campuses,

2038
01:49:39,880 --> 01:49:42,040
Speaker 1: you know, maybe going harder, don't skip reps in the

2039
01:49:42,080 --> 01:49:44,280
Speaker 1: weight room, little things that make a big difference for

2040
01:49:44,360 --> 01:49:47,840
Speaker 1: building the team. Um. The best thing about being a

2041
01:49:47,880 --> 01:49:52,280
Speaker 1: head coach is what UM, I would say part probably

2042
01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:56,680
Speaker 1: the the autonomy that you have from my decision making standpoint. UM.

2043
01:49:57,120 --> 01:50:00,080
Speaker 1: But at the same time, when you kind of but

2044
01:50:00,240 --> 01:50:02,880
Speaker 1: like I am, and nothing's ever been easy, you're always

2045
01:50:02,960 --> 01:50:07,519
Speaker 1: wary of getting too comfortable. UM. So just then making

2046
01:50:07,560 --> 01:50:10,360
Speaker 1: sure you surround yourself with the right people the worst

2047
01:50:10,400 --> 01:50:16,200
Speaker 1: thing make those choices work. Head coach, your life is

2048
01:50:16,240 --> 01:50:21,320
Speaker 1: not yours, I mean, and you know everything about how

2049
01:50:21,479 --> 01:50:24,439
Speaker 1: you're perceived a lot, not everything, but a lot of

2050
01:50:24,479 --> 01:50:27,320
Speaker 1: how you perceive this based off decisions of you know,

2051
01:50:27,760 --> 01:50:31,000
Speaker 1: young people who sometimes make the bad decisions. Uh So

2052
01:50:31,160 --> 01:50:33,560
Speaker 1: that sounds in again especially in Jeff family, and that

2053
01:50:33,720 --> 01:50:38,240
Speaker 1: they're affected by those things I do. In terms of

2054
01:50:38,320 --> 01:50:42,639
Speaker 1: the coolest things you've done coaching at Barclay's head coach

2055
01:50:42,760 --> 01:50:46,560
Speaker 1: of your own team in Brooklyn, is that is that

2056
01:50:46,680 --> 01:50:49,720
Speaker 1: the coolest thing or was because it's your team, isn't

2057
01:50:49,800 --> 01:50:52,560
Speaker 1: because it's something I never even could bathom. Like I

2058
01:50:52,680 --> 01:50:54,760
Speaker 1: jumped out of an airplane a year ago. That was

2059
01:50:54,800 --> 01:50:57,439
Speaker 1: pretty cool, but I always knew that you should do

2060
01:50:57,600 --> 01:51:01,839
Speaker 1: that when I grew up. Wasn't no arena in Brooklyn.

2061
01:51:02,240 --> 01:51:05,439
Speaker 1: There was no basketball team because the Knicks were the

2062
01:51:05,520 --> 01:51:08,080
Speaker 1: only team in the city, so you only thought about

2063
01:51:08,120 --> 01:51:10,320
Speaker 1: the next But to be able to coach in the

2064
01:51:10,479 --> 01:51:16,439
Speaker 1: arena that an NBA franchise house hosts games in as

2065
01:51:16,479 --> 01:51:21,720
Speaker 1: a college that coach was really really cool. The uh

2066
01:51:22,800 --> 01:51:25,200
Speaker 1: give me the one that got away, the player that

2067
01:51:25,439 --> 01:51:29,960
Speaker 1: you and during any of your your recruiting you thought

2068
01:51:30,040 --> 01:51:33,240
Speaker 1: you had, you knew you had, you didn't get and

2069
01:51:33,320 --> 01:51:38,240
Speaker 1: they went on to have a great career. Uh wow. Um,

2070
01:51:39,920 --> 01:51:44,640
Speaker 1: probably Montrez Harrold. We were at South Carolina and you

2071
01:51:44,720 --> 01:51:47,560
Speaker 1: know we were in on him early. Um, from a

2072
01:51:47,640 --> 01:51:51,080
Speaker 1: really really small town in North Carolina, and we had

2073
01:51:51,120 --> 01:51:54,559
Speaker 1: a kid committed to us already in the following class,

2074
01:51:54,640 --> 01:51:57,960
Speaker 1: Anthony Kill, So we didn't want to upset the alpha

2075
01:51:58,080 --> 01:52:01,400
Speaker 1: card he was. That kid was from North Carolina. Book,

2076
01:52:02,360 --> 01:52:04,320
Speaker 1: if I'm in that position again as that coach, I'm

2077
01:52:04,320 --> 01:52:07,559
Speaker 1: gonna take Montress and make sure Aigail understands we want

2078
01:52:07,640 --> 01:52:10,800
Speaker 1: him Tom. But if we had both of them, maybe

2079
01:52:10,840 --> 01:52:14,519
Speaker 1: are Maybe I was fortunate is a little bit different

2080
01:52:14,520 --> 01:52:15,920
Speaker 1: as he moved forward because he's turned out to be

2081
01:52:15,960 --> 01:52:17,920
Speaker 1: a hell of a player and still playing the NBA now,

2082
01:52:18,560 --> 01:52:23,120
Speaker 1: no no question. Um, that's interesting that because I was

2083
01:52:23,160 --> 01:52:25,880
Speaker 1: recrud by Jim, and I think because we decided not

2084
01:52:25,920 --> 01:52:27,080
Speaker 1: to take them. I think he was gonna go to

2085
01:52:27,120 --> 01:52:30,360
Speaker 1: the KINGI, tex and then um Seth got fired and

2086
01:52:30,520 --> 01:52:33,120
Speaker 1: so he wanted to Louisville. Yeah, that's exactly what That's

2087
01:52:33,160 --> 01:52:35,120
Speaker 1: exactly what happens. Funny because I was recrued by Jim

2088
01:52:35,160 --> 01:52:36,400
Speaker 1: herricka u c l A and he used to go

2089
01:52:36,800 --> 01:52:39,280
Speaker 1: Doug it Doug. Positions don't matter. We played the best

2090
01:52:39,320 --> 01:52:41,439
Speaker 1: five guys at u c l A. We played the

2091
01:52:41,520 --> 01:52:44,679
Speaker 1: best five. I was like, you have except coach. I'm

2092
01:52:45,560 --> 01:52:48,680
Speaker 1: six ft tall, I'm white and Jewish. I have only

2093
01:52:48,760 --> 01:52:51,439
Speaker 1: one position I can play. So if you take illusion me, man,

2094
01:52:51,560 --> 01:52:54,559
Speaker 1: it was the class behind me, Like where am I gonna?

2095
01:52:54,640 --> 01:52:56,240
Speaker 1: Where am I gonna play? And like he's just six

2096
01:52:56,280 --> 01:52:58,560
Speaker 1: with five win guard, Like that's not that's not that,

2097
01:52:58,720 --> 01:53:01,400
Speaker 1: that's not gonna happen. Um, if you could change one

2098
01:53:01,400 --> 01:53:05,320
Speaker 1: thing about college basketball, would it be? Um? This is

2099
01:53:05,400 --> 01:53:08,120
Speaker 1: really radical, man. I actually think basketball in general, I

2100
01:53:08,160 --> 01:53:12,720
Speaker 1: don't think the court's big enough anymore. I agree my

2101
01:53:12,880 --> 01:53:15,840
Speaker 1: my dad just think it is not wide enough. Yeah

2102
01:53:15,920 --> 01:53:19,040
Speaker 1: maybe that's maybe it's widen, but I think you know,

2103
01:53:19,520 --> 01:53:21,880
Speaker 1: the game has evolved so much. Players. We always talk

2104
01:53:21,880 --> 01:53:24,800
Speaker 1: about how much bigger, fast and athletic, stronger or whatever,

2105
01:53:25,240 --> 01:53:26,800
Speaker 1: and we still play in the top lines of the

2106
01:53:26,840 --> 01:53:31,479
Speaker 1: same space. That's a good one. I just the problem

2107
01:53:31,560 --> 01:53:35,080
Speaker 1: is the arenas are built. I guess you could. I'm

2108
01:53:35,400 --> 01:53:38,800
Speaker 1: really really radical like no that that honestly no. Listen,

2109
01:53:38,840 --> 01:53:40,880
Speaker 1: my lady, my late father, he grew up in the

2110
01:53:40,960 --> 01:53:43,160
Speaker 1: Bronx who go to Long Island. Like his whole thing

2111
01:53:43,320 --> 01:53:45,720
Speaker 1: was like, guys are too big, guys are too long,

2112
01:53:46,000 --> 01:53:49,360
Speaker 1: need more space. You gotta play and it's gotta be wider,

2113
01:53:49,479 --> 01:53:52,360
Speaker 1: he thought, wider, not longer, although longer would be incredible,

2114
01:53:52,400 --> 01:53:56,120
Speaker 1: too right, deeper three point lines. So we've extended the line.

2115
01:53:56,520 --> 01:53:59,360
Speaker 1: There'll be more goshed about a bound in the corners

2116
01:53:59,720 --> 01:54:05,200
Speaker 1: of you were in it now never before. Yes, of course,

2117
01:54:05,640 --> 01:54:08,600
Speaker 1: of course unless they do the Ray Alan Drew let's it.

2118
01:54:08,680 --> 01:54:11,240
Speaker 1: Unless they do, isn't it isn't amazing? Like how this

2119
01:54:11,360 --> 01:54:15,400
Speaker 1: thing has changed from like my my junior year, we

2120
01:54:15,520 --> 01:54:17,559
Speaker 1: had an incredible it would have been an incredible small

2121
01:54:17,600 --> 01:54:20,240
Speaker 1: ball team and we only did it once against Texas.

2122
01:54:20,280 --> 01:54:23,479
Speaker 1: We're down like twenty. Our big guys are terrible that game.

2123
01:54:23,680 --> 01:54:26,120
Speaker 1: So we went small. Dosn't Mason played the five and

2124
01:54:26,200 --> 01:54:28,040
Speaker 1: we cut it to like four, and he would never

2125
01:54:28,160 --> 01:54:30,439
Speaker 1: go back to it, like never, and we were we

2126
01:54:30,600 --> 01:54:33,160
Speaker 1: played small. Isn't amazing on how the game is has

2127
01:54:33,280 --> 01:54:39,880
Speaker 1: changed and evolved? Oh for sure? Sure. Hey man, listen,

2128
01:54:40,000 --> 01:54:42,320
Speaker 1: you've been more than gracious with your time. I really

2129
01:54:42,360 --> 01:54:48,200
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Let's catch all right, we'll talk soon. All right. Wow,

2130
01:54:48,240 --> 01:54:50,680
Speaker 1: that was unbelievable. My thanks to Mike Boyden for all

2131
01:54:50,760 --> 01:54:51,880
Speaker 1: his time. By the way, you can listen to The

2132
01:54:51,880 --> 01:54:54,360
Speaker 1: Doug Gotlic Show daily three to six Eastern Time, twelve

2133
01:54:54,400 --> 01:54:56,960
Speaker 1: to three Pacific on Fox Sports Trader, the I Heart

2134
01:54:57,040 --> 01:54:59,560
Speaker 1: Radio app, or whever you download this. You can download

2135
01:54:59,600 --> 01:55:02,720
Speaker 1: that show daily. It's called The Doug Gottlieb Show. In

2136
01:55:02,760 --> 01:55:06,440
Speaker 1: the meantime, tell a friend, tweet it, put it on Facebook,

2137
01:55:06,760 --> 01:55:09,920
Speaker 1: I g it. Whatever you want. Tell somebody it's it's

2138
01:55:10,040 --> 01:55:13,040
Speaker 1: good content. It's not necessarily me telling you it's good content.

2139
01:55:13,360 --> 01:55:16,480
Speaker 1: You listen to it, you probably liked it. I'm Doug Gottlieb.

2140
01:55:16,760 --> 01:55:17,520
Speaker 1: This is all ball