1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: Guess what, mango, what's that? Will? I was reading this 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: whole story about a bank robbery that happened in so 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: this guy walks into two banks, one after the other. 4 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: He has no mask and no face cover. I mean, 5 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: it didn't seem like he was trying to hide himself. 6 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: And he gets caught on camera pretty clearly, and so 7 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: obviously he's apprehended not long after that. But the weird 8 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: thing is when the cops come fromm he was totally baffled. Well, 9 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: he kept saying, I was wearing the juice. The juice, Well, 10 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: apparently he poured lemon juice all over his face because 11 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: he knew it could be used as this invisible ink 12 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: for writing. And the poor guy, he was really bewildered 13 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: because he said he tested it out, and the cops 14 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: pressed him for details, and he said the lemon juice 15 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: had gotten in his eyes the first time when he 16 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: poured it all over his face, and then he took 17 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: a selfie to see if it had worked. And the 18 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: combination of squinting and not being accustomed to taking his 19 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: own photo, I mean, this this was well, it made 20 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: him take a photograph that he wasn't in and he 21 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: just believed that he was invisible. I know you almost 22 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: feel bad for the guy, but you know, reading up 23 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: on his invisible face juice made me wonder what is 24 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: the science of invisibility and what are some of the 25 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: things going on that we can't see? And where is 26 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: my invisibility cloak? So let's dive in. Hey, their podcast listeners, 27 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson and as 28 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 1: always I'm joined by my good friend Man Guesh, I'll 29 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: Ticketer and over there on the other side of the 30 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: glass with the biggest smile that you can't see is 31 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: Tristan McNeil, our producer, And on today's show, we're taking 32 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: a WorldWind tour of our invisible world and trying to 33 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: get a better grasp of all things unseen. You know, 34 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: the idea of invisibility is fascinated mankind for thousands of years. 35 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: It's parts of our myths and our folklore and pop 36 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: culture and even our psychology. Of course, there are lots 37 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: of different kinds of invisibility, so this will be a 38 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: super fun Hodgepodge episode where we cover as much as possible. 39 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: We'll talk to a couple of insightful authors who have 40 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: devoted years of study to stuff we can't see. So 41 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: who do we have on the line today, Mango, Today 42 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: we're talking to Bob Berman, one of America's top astronomy 43 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: writers and author of a brand new book about the 44 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: curious history of invisible light. It's called Zapped, and it's 45 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 1: incredible and we'll have some wonderful quizzes along the way 46 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 1: as usual. All right, So, in honor of Bob's new book, 47 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: I want to dive straight into the science and talk 48 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: about light, and more specifically invisible light. You know, obviously 49 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: there are large portions of the electromagnetic spectrum that we 50 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 1: have no trouble observing, but there's also a huge part 51 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: that's totally invisible to us. That's the part that includes 52 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: things like ultra violet light and for red light, radio waves, microwaves, 53 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: X rays, gamma raves, you know, all that good stuff. Yeah. 54 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 1: I mean, I always knew there were parts of the 55 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: spectrum beyond our range of vision, just like you know 56 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: there's sounds outside the limits of human hearing. But reading 57 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 1: Bob's book put the vastness of light in a completely 58 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: new perspective for me, and it really blew me away. 59 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 1: So Burman rights, there's more light in the universe than 60 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,119 Speaker 1: anything else. So if you were to add up every 61 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: individual light photon in the cosmos, they would account for 62 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: nine point of everything there is. And those forms of 63 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: invisible light you listed off, that actually makes up the 64 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: vast majority of the light. I actually can't wrap my 65 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: head around that fact that it seems unbelievable, but you know, 66 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: our eyes are designed to recognize only the Sun's most 67 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: abundant energy, so we really can only see the colors 68 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: that the Sun emits most strongly. And even though the 69 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: whole universe is light, the bulk of it, it's completely 70 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: invisible to us. We've actually figured out all kinds of 71 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: ingenious ways to measure and observe forms of invisible light. 72 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: And one of the most interesting things I came across 73 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: while prepping for this episode was the way human observation 74 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: actually affects the behavior of light. All right, well, I 75 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: think this is pretty complicated, so why don't you break 76 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: it down a little. Well. When quantum theory became all 77 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: the rage in the twentieth century, scientists started noticing something 78 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: super weird. They found that when they use special equipment 79 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: to pinpoint the location of photons, these tiny bits of 80 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: matter always behaved as particles. For example, they could pass 81 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: through one tiny hole or another in a barrier, but 82 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: not through both holes at once. All right, so far, 83 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: so good, and particles do what particles do that. I 84 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: don't think there's anything weird about that, right, But the 85 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: scientists also discovered that when they didn't try to determine 86 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: the exact location of each photon, the photons behaved as 87 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: waves instead of particles. So the photons were then able 88 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: to pass through both tiny holes in a barrier at 89 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: the same time. And that's something that only waves can do, 90 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,559 Speaker 1: not particles. Okay, alright, I spoke through soon. That's really weird. 91 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: And so you're saying that light, photons and other sub 92 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: atomic matter act like particles, you know, when they know 93 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: we're watching, and then like waves when they know we 94 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: aren't looking. Yeah, it's something like that. So obviously the 95 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 1: photons themselves aren't aware of us watching them, but they 96 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: definitely seem to act differently based on how closely we 97 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: observe them. And the best explanation, at least according to 98 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: most physicists, is that when we look closely, our brains 99 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: halt the wave pattern so that we can see the 100 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: photon in a certain place as a particle. It just 101 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: makes us feel better that way. That's really insane, all right, 102 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: So where does that leave us? Does light exists as 103 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 1: a wave or as tiny bits of almost invisible matter? Yeah, 104 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: it's both. So Bob Berman sums up the paradox this way, 105 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: and I'm going to quote him here. He says, just 106 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: a century ago, the local realism mindset of science and 107 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: even common sense held that all objects, including atoms and photons, 108 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: have an existence independent of our observation of them. But 109 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: that's been replaced by a more modern view that our 110 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 1: observation itself is necessary for the very existence of a 111 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: photon or an electron. A spooky prospect, no kidding. Yeah, 112 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: So he continues, it possessed no real existence as an 113 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: actual photon or electron or whatever it was. Rather, it's 114 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: observed existence is it's only existence. The observation establishes reality, 115 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: nothing else is certain. That's pretty trippy. Yeah, the stuff 116 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: feels so philosophical, and especially when you go from a 117 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: micro perspective to a macro one, because just like with photons, 118 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 1: the color and brightness of light doesn't exist outside the 119 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: experience of the observer. We only see light as a 120 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: certain color because of how it stimulates the cones in 121 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 1: our eyes and how our brain interprets those signals. Well, 122 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: that's a good point, but it's also kind of a 123 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: terrifying mean. It means the external world is really just 124 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: as invisible as a UV ray, because outside of human observation, 125 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: there is no color or brightness. It's just this mix 126 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: of different invisible energy pulses. Actually, by the way, that 127 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: this is off topic, but did you read about the 128 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: women that supposedly have four cones in their eyes instead 129 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: of three, and as a result, they can see hundreds 130 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: of millions of color. That's a wild Yeah, they're called tetrachromats. 131 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 1: But baby, we're clinging too tightly to the human experience. 132 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 1: And you know, I actually did some digging to see 133 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: if there were any animals whose vision best ours in 134 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: terms of light perception, and it turns out there quite 135 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: a few that put the invisible spectrum to pretty good use. Awesome, 136 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: So give me the load down. Well, one case where 137 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: plenty of animals have a speed is the ability to 138 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: perceive ultra violet light. Invisible UV radiation is all around us. 139 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 1: And while it's useful for getting a golden tan, it's 140 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: also a menace because exposure to it can lead to 141 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: melanoma and other illnesses. But that hasn't stopped some animals 142 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: from making the most of UV light. There's some species 143 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: of birds that have plumage that you know, to our 144 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: eyes look the same between males and females. But if 145 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: your vision allows you to see the UV range like 146 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: those birds are able to see it, you know you'd 147 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: be able to make out the uvy markings that distinguish them. 148 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: So those markings make it easier for the birds to 149 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: find a meh definitely, but that's actually only part of it. 150 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: Some other birds determine which chicks to feed based on 151 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: how much UV light you know their heads reflect. For 152 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: whatever reason, the heartier birds tend to have a shinier 153 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: crest than their weaker siblings, so when the mama bird 154 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: has limited food to share, she'll go with whomever has 155 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: the most shine. There's also the fact that urine and 156 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: feces of mice and other small prey are visible in 157 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: the ultraviolet range, so birds that are sensitive to UV 158 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: light can use these traces to track their prey even 159 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: in a place where everything is uniform in color, you know, 160 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: like a green field or something like that. But you know, 161 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: birds aren't the only ones that can do this. You 162 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: have rodents and bats and even some marsupials that can 163 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: see UV light for similar reasons. So I actually think 164 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: I read something about butterflies also having great ev perception, 165 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: and I think they use it to identify which flowers 166 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: are currently producing nectar based on the color of the 167 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: petals or something. Well, yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that, 168 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: because butterflies with a high sensitivity light are often considered 169 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,599 Speaker 1: to have the widest visual range of any form of wildlife. 170 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: It's crazy the invisible world might be the most visible 171 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: to butterflies of all things. But before we move on, 172 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: there's one last animal I want to talk about, and 173 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: that's the reindeer. So I'm sure there's a Rudolph joke 174 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: in here somewhere, but not telling reindeer can see ev risk. Well, 175 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: it sounds strange at first, but reindeer of evolved to 176 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: take full advantage of the ultraviolet range. And they're not 177 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: the only ones. There are other Arctic mammals who make 178 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: their home at the Earth's polls, and they have to 179 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: deal with much higher levels of UV light. Yeah, the 180 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: thinning ozone layer doesn't block as many rays as it 181 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: used to, especially in those upper latitudes. Yeah, exactly. So 182 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: there was this study of the University College of London 183 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: and the University of Tromso in Norway, and they found 184 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,719 Speaker 1: evidence that not only a reindeer resistant eye damage from 185 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: intense UV rays, they're also able to see UV light 186 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: and this helps them find food and avoid predators. And 187 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: in the winter, reindeer primarily do two things. They eat 188 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: lichen and they try to avoid being eaten by wolves. 189 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: And wouldn't you know it, lichen and the fur of 190 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: wolves both absorb UV light. So because snowy landscape strongly 191 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: have reflect UV rays, you got reindeer that can spot 192 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: lichen and wolves with ease. Yeah. That's really cool, And well, 193 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,079 Speaker 1: I think you and I could nerd out on reindeer 194 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: facts for a while, Like how Norwegian scientists wanted to 195 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: get closer to reindeers so they could study them better, 196 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: So they wore polar bear costumes and did that work. No, 197 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: not at all, like it's scared off the reindeer. But 198 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: they also wrote a scientific paper on reindeers reactions to costumes, 199 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: and we're hoping to redo the study with better costumes, 200 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: like like a clown costume. I like how they just 201 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: went off track there, Like that didn't work, So let's 202 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: just do costumes. How about clowns? How about police officers? 203 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: Science is great, but what I was saying was I 204 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: think we should shift the topic a little. All right, well, 205 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 1: what do you what do you want to talk about? 206 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: Secret messages? So last year a group of scientists and 207 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: friends developed a special kind of paper that can carry 208 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: secret messages. It looks just like plain old paper, but 209 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: you can use different wavelengths of UV light to read, write, 210 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: or even erase the messages that can't be seen invisible light. 211 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: So how does that work? So apparently the paper has 212 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 1: this special kind of molecule bonded to its cellulose fibers 213 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: that reacts and turns fluorescent when exposed to UV light. 214 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: The idea is you can write messages on the paper 215 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: using a stencil to produce dark and bright areas that 216 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: react differently under the UV lamp. But the really cool 217 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: thing is that the process is completely reversible. You can 218 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: expose the used paper to a shorter wavelength of UV 219 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 1: light that erases the message completely, and that way of 220 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: paper can be used over and over. I mean, it 221 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: is kind of cool, but what's the advantage over you know, 222 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: the disappearing reappearing and visible length that our kids play 223 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: with and stuff like that. So why is this better 224 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: than that? So not only are the messages on this 225 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: paper undetectable under visible light, they also can't be dissolved 226 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: with other chemicals. So it's the super useful tool in 227 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: anti counterfeiting and tracking operations. A good job, France, you know. 228 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: I actually want to dive into some of the historical 229 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: obsession with invisibility and the ridiculous potions humans used to make. 230 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: But before we do that, how about we check in 231 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: with Bob Burman and see if he can tell us 232 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: a little about the cool properties of light and how 233 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: humans have managed to turn something invisible to our advantage. 234 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: So in this episode on All Things Invisible, we've been 235 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: talking a little bit about this great book, Zapped, and 236 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: we're really lucky to have one America's top astronomy writers 237 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: on with us and the author of this book. It's 238 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: Zapped From infrared to X rays, The Curious History of 239 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 1: invisible Light. Bob Berman, Welcome to part time genius. Thank 240 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: you great to be here. All right, well let's just 241 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: start with the basics. So can you explain to us 242 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: where light comes from. Well, all lights, except for gamma rays, 243 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:13,719 Speaker 1: comes from one source only, and that is atoms. If 244 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 1: the atomy gets excited in any way, electricity, collisions, anything 245 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: can may be excited, madam, so that the electrons are 246 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: In the case of hydraten, it's only got one electron 247 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: jumps to a higher orbit because it's excited. It really 248 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: doesn't like to be there. So in a fraction of 249 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: the second, it'll tumble down closer to its nucleus, and 250 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: that is what causes any kind of light. And the 251 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: distance that it tumbles down determines the color of the 252 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: light and therefore whether it's visible or invisible. So I 253 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: know you talk about this in your book, but what 254 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: did ancient people think about light? And were they aware 255 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: of invisible light? They felt about light as at first 256 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: something that comes from the eye, and then later on 257 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: as an interaction between a beam from the eye and 258 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: external objects. So they got it wrong for a long time. 259 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: They realized that it involves something very fast speed, but 260 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: nothing more than that, and nobody foresaw invisible light until 261 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: the time of the Renaissance of the Middle Ages. It 262 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: was one of those things that no wise person or 263 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: Greek philosopher, or scientists or religious order, nobody came up 264 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: with the idea that there might be kinds of light 265 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 1: out there that our eyes can't see well. In the Renaissance, 266 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, you know, with this idea of invisible 267 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: light being a possibility, how did this start to be discovered? Well, 268 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: it's really William Herschel who found the first kind. He 269 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: projected sunlight through a prism piece of cut glass onto 270 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,839 Speaker 1: a tabletop, so you had the whole rainbow of colors. 271 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: And then he put a thermometer in each color, and 272 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: he had other themometers on the side in the darkness 273 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: to act as controls. And so he noticed that when 274 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: the thermometer was in the blue or the green part 275 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: of the spectrum, the temperature went up very little. In 276 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: the yellow and went up more, and the red they 277 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: went up still more. But then he took a break, 278 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: and when he came back some minutes later, the sun 279 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: had moved across the sky, so the spectrum on the 280 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: table had shifted, and now his thermometer on the table 281 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: was no longer in the visible light instead of was 282 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: sitting in a spot of darkness outside of the spectrum, 283 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: just beyond the red end of the spectrum. And he 284 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: looked down on it, and now the thermometer was crazy. 285 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: Who had it was registering much more heat than any 286 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: color did. And so he repeated this and he realized 287 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: that the blank spot beyond the red part of the 288 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: spectrum was heat, was producing more heat. Well, he realized 289 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: it had to be an invisible kind of light that 290 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: was creating the heat. And he called these calorific rays. 291 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: Later on we came to call it infrared. So that 292 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: was the first kind of invisible light ever discovered. Wow. Wow. 293 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: And you also talked in the book about the discovery 294 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: of of X rays and I'm curious what the you know, 295 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: the public response was to this discovery. Well, X rays, Yeah, 296 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: that changed the world too. That was Renkin, and he 297 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: was boy. He had fame, and he would have had 298 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: fortune too if he had patented it, but he didn't. 299 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: Generously just allowed the world to use it, and almost 300 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: right away people realized the value in medicine that you 301 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: could use X rays and find a bullet wear a 302 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: bullet was my body for someone who had been shot 303 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: or were broken, bones were broken, And but nobody knew 304 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: at the time that X rays also had a dark side, 305 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: that it could produce harm as well as benefits. What 306 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: new opportunities for the use of invisible light are the 307 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: horizon and things like medicine or technology or culture, well 308 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: everywhere you know, we use that more than visible light 309 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: these days. Everybody knows about microwaves and used in for 310 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: not just our ovens, but for broadcasting on the GPS 311 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: signals that come down to us from the radio part 312 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: of the spectrum. Really the microwave part of the spectrum. 313 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: So whenever we use our GPS in our cars, or 314 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: when when we're on a camping trip, or use our 315 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: cell phones, those are all parts of the radio spectrum. 316 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: And then we know about the infrared. We use heat labs, 317 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: we use garage door openers, that are they're using infrared 318 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: and ultra violet. That's boy, that's the one with the 319 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: two edged sword. Ultra violet is both the most dangerous 320 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: form and the most valuable for our health. And what 321 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: makes UV rays so harmful to us, Well, they're the 322 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: beginning of the part of the spectrum that has the 323 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: power to ionize and others to strip electrons from adams 324 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: and therefore to change genes, to change chromosomes, to alter DNA, 325 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: and that could give rise to cancer, and it does 326 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: the eight thousand or so melanoma deaths per year. Skin 327 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: cancer are caused by generally too much UV, usually from 328 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: from from a bad sudden burn in our youth. And uh, 329 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: and that's why people nowadays know that they should be 330 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 1: putting on sunscreen and wearing hats and stuff like that. 331 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,199 Speaker 1: But bad thing has happened from that too, in that 332 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: we've now blocked so much of the UV. That's strange 333 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: things are happening to our bodies that that most even 334 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: doctors are not aware of, although many are like like, 335 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: like what you do have some examples of this? Yeah, yeah, 336 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 1: and this has started. If I could give just a 337 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: bit of background, There was a time, of course, when 338 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: we were an agricultural society and we were out of 339 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: doors a lot, and we got plenty of sunlight and 340 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 1: therefore plenty of ultravolet, which is a few percent of 341 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: the sunlight and stimulates our bodies to produce U V 342 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: a vitamin D very quickly. That UV induced vitamin D 343 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: is such a avalanchingly fast process that we get more 344 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: U V from twenty minutes in the strong sunlight then 345 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: you would from drinking two hundred glasses of milk. So 346 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 1: somehow our bodies want lots of vitamin D production from UV. 347 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: It's a natural thing. But as we moved indoors to 348 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 1: be a manufacturing society, and then starting in the fifties 349 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: and sixties had air conditioning so that we didn't have 350 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: to open windows, and glass blocks UV and so it 351 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: blocks the vitamin D production on our skin. And then 352 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: worst of all, this is something that they Vitamin D 353 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: Council talks about a lot because the doctors there, like 354 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: John Cannell like are really getting frustrated with the fact 355 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: that we've turned into kind of a race of of 356 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: of mold people where we're blocking the sun entirely and 357 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: not getting enough sunlight. They see it that it wasn't 358 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: that many decades ago. The kids after school. Of course, 359 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 1: during school they're not getting any UV and therefore not 360 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: producing any vitamin D. But after school kids used to 361 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: play outdoors and parents used to say, yeah, come back 362 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,439 Speaker 1: at dinner time, and between they'd be out doing whatever 363 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: in the playground or climbing trees, and then that changed, 364 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: so their UV levels in their and their blood has 365 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: dropped to really, really low levels. So what does this 366 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: do is turns out that u V is one of 367 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:57,959 Speaker 1: the strongest prevent ers of cancer. It stops cancers from growing, 368 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: so when they're tiny, pre detectable tumors, they don't get 369 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: any bigger. This year, for example, it was found that 370 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: pancreatic cancer is prevented by by adequate vitamin D triggered 371 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: by ultra violet light. So there are a lot of 372 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: health benefits also psychological benefits in terms of treatment for 373 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: depression and and things like that. If you get enough 374 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:33,959 Speaker 1: sunlight induced h vitamin D, it's hard to strike that 375 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: strike that perfect balance. Now you're so right. At the 376 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: same time, you don't want to burn. So the people 377 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: like Dr Canell in the Vitamin D Council, they say 378 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: that we should get as much sun as we can 379 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: without burning, because everybody is so different and how much 380 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: sun they can handle before they start to burn. You know, 381 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: blue eyed, blonde people tend to burn fast, and camp 382 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: shouldn't get as much. Well, there are a thousand other 383 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: questions we could ask. This such a fascinating book. I 384 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: hope all of our listeners will check out zapp. But Bob, 385 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us on Part Time Genius. 386 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure. Thanks so much. You're listening to 387 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: Part Time Genius and we're talking about the peculiar allure 388 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: of turning invisible, So mego. We mentioned at the top 389 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: of the show that humans have been obsessed with the 390 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: idea of invisibility from millennia, so I thought it might 391 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: be fun to take a look at some of the 392 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: weirdest attempts to go invisible that people have tried all 393 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: over the years. Yeah, so I'm definitely game. I spent 394 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: some time looking up medieval recipes and spells to turn 395 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: yourself invisible, and as you might guess, they're insane. So 396 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 1: one of my favorites is from the Ashmole, which is 397 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: this anonymous fifteenth century manuscript that collected over a hundred 398 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,479 Speaker 1: eighty magical and magical recipes in English and Latin. So 399 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: this is the invisibility spell. It goes, if you wish 400 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: to be invisible, take a dead dog and bury it, 401 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 1: and plant a bean plant over it, and place one 402 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: in your mouth, and without a doubt you'll be invisible. 403 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 1: That that's it. It's simple. It's like one of these 404 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: great invisibility life hacks. But but don't worry. If you're 405 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: fresh out of dead dogs or beans, there's another suggestion 406 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: for you. Um this is also from the Middle Ages. 407 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: Grind up an owl's eye with the ball of beetle 408 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: dung and some olive oil and rub it all over 409 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: your body. I like the addition of the olive oil, 410 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: like weird stuff, and you just put some olive oil 411 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: in there that I think I'd rather eat the dead 412 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: dog being So why do they all have to be 413 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 1: so gross? So most invisibility charms that ties to a 414 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,239 Speaker 1: cult practices so they tend to feature nasty ingredients like 415 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: the ivan a for a heart of a bat or whatever. 416 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 1: And one of them actually calls for the head of 417 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: someone who committed suicide, but stuffed with fava beans. God, 418 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: it's hard to imagine why any of these ingredients were 419 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: picked to be the ones that would turn you invisible, 420 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: But I don't know, and think about it. Might have 421 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 1: something to do with our desire for power, which seems 422 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,239 Speaker 1: to be at the root of man's continuing quest for invisibility. 423 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: I mean, we have stories going all the way back 424 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: to antiquity that point to the dark side of going invisible. Yeah, 425 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,199 Speaker 1: so there are all kinds of myths and folk legends 426 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: that warn about the corrupting power invisibility and how it 427 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 1: can lead even the most pure of heart heroes into 428 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: recklessness or voyeurism. And well, you know, these commonalities between 429 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: fables from different cultures. I find these fascinating. In this case. 430 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: They seem to suggest that we all know invisibility as 431 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: a power that we probably shouldn't have, and you know, 432 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: it doesn't stop us from wanting it though. And in fact, 433 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: the top two superpowers that people always cite is the 434 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: ones they'd most like to have, are the ability to 435 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: fly and the power to turn invisible. Yeah. So both 436 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,479 Speaker 1: of those provide the user a crazy amount of freedom, 437 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: and maybe that's why we find them appealing. You know, 438 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: that could definitely be the case. But in keeping with 439 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,159 Speaker 1: the shady side of invisibility we've been talking about that 440 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: there might be another explanation. And I couldn't find an 441 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: actual psychological study of this, but there is some speculation 442 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: about what the choice between flight and invisibility says about 443 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: a person. William Barry was this psychotherapist and professor at 444 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: Florida International University. He suggests that people who opt to 445 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: go invisible are embracing their dark side, you know, the 446 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 1: side of themselves that they typically don't like to acknowledge 447 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: as being part of them. So this is the side 448 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: of your psyche where all your most shameful thoughts and 449 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: desires dwell. According to Barry, quote many of those who 450 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: choose invisibility do so to hear what others say about 451 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: them when they aren't around, or to spy on others, 452 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 1: or to procure things that they don't have the money 453 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: to pay for. It's easy to see how this relates 454 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: to the dark side. Yeah, it really is, especially when 455 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,120 Speaker 1: you compare it to choosing flight, which is mostly appealing 456 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: as this form of fast travel or experiencing this different sensation, 457 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: but it doesn't seem to have any of the darker edge, 458 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 1: right And you know, Barry found that people who choose 459 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 1: power of flight generally see it as a way to 460 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: add excitement or fulfillment to their lives, whether that's from 461 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: you know, maybe rescuing people from burning buildings or just 462 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: zipping across the world to have dinner in Italy or 463 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: you know, something like that, which is interesting. You know, 464 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: there's another commonality between invisibility fables that we should probably 465 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: talk about, all right, and what's that invisibility cloaks. So 466 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: ancient Greek myths described caps and cloaks with magical properties 467 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: that made the were invisible to other mortal men, and 468 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: from their invisibility, cloaks have popped up in everything from 469 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: Welsh and Germanic folklore to modern day pop culture. Of course, 470 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: and I'm guessing being a big fan, you think of 471 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: Harry Potter definitely, so Harry Potter is never far from 472 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: my mind. But scientists have been hard at work on 473 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 1: cloaking devices for a while now, things that can mask 474 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: or completely hide an object or a person from sight. 475 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: And sometimes they're more successful than others, but all of 476 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: the most promising ones involved something called meta materials, and 477 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: it's just you know, some kind of super science cloth 478 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: or something more or less. So meta materials are basically 479 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: a kind of material that's engineered to have properties that 480 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 1: that don't occur in nature, and in this case, it's 481 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: a light bending property that manipulates the eye. So the 482 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: reason objects are visible to our eyes at all is 483 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: because objects distort light waves based on their shapes. But 484 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: when the light from an object reaches our eyes, we 485 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: see the object by recognizing those distortions. Alright, so meta 486 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: materials they somehow counteract this or so. The idea is 487 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: that the meta material forms a kind of shell around 488 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: the object, or a cloak, so the light rays bends 489 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: smoothly around the meta material and recombined on the other side. 490 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 1: And one helpful example I came across is that it's 491 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: kind of like water flowing around a rock and a stream. 492 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: I viewer on the far side wouldn't see anything unusual, 493 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 1: but both the meta materials shield and object in its 494 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: center would be completely invisible to him. It would look 495 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: like the lights bouncing off a smooth surface, which is 496 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: pretty cool. But I don't know. I have the say, 497 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: I've read so many headlines over the last few years 498 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: that claim we're this much closer to Harry Potter like 499 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: invisibility cloak. And you know, there are definitely some similarities 500 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: to what you're describing, but it's hardly a one to 501 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: one I mean, I mean, natural materials get their special 502 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 1: properties from the arrangement of atoms and there's no way 503 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 1: what's going on with these meta materials is the same thing. Yeah, 504 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: that's true, And these cloaking devices are more like chunky 505 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: rings and pyramids that fit over a stationary object right now, 506 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,959 Speaker 1: rather than any sort of sleek piece of fabric. But 507 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: the technology is advancing pretty quickly. Well, I'm glad to 508 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: know that we're on our way towards that. But why 509 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:28,479 Speaker 1: don't we break for a little quiz? Alright, So today's 510 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 1: show us about invisibility. We decided to bring on to 511 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: Seattle based artists who produced the delightful art series that 512 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: only shows up when it rains. Welcome to the show, 513 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: Peregon Church and Zach Fisher. Thank you great to be here. 514 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: I am so excited to have you on. And and 515 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,679 Speaker 1: for you listeners who aren't familiar with rain Works, you 516 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: should definitely check out the photo gallery at www dot 517 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: rain dot works because it's fantastic. So can you tell 518 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: us a little bit about how you came up with 519 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: this idea of making invisible artwork that only shows up 520 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: in the rain. I love thinking of ways to use 521 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: materials that already exist in ways that they shouldn't be used. 522 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: And I came across this stuff called super hydrophobic coatings. Basically, 523 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 1: when you put it on the surface, he keeps it 524 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: from getting wet. And I thought, wow, that's super cool. 525 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: You're watching all this water roll off these clothes and 526 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: shoes and whatever. What if you put it on something 527 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,719 Speaker 1: that changed color when it got wet, like concrete and 528 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: so you since it's a spray on the thing, you 529 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: could spray it through a stencil on the concrete and 530 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: as long as it was invisible and dry, you can 531 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: create art that was only visible when the surface is wet. 532 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 1: Would you tell our listeners a little bit about some 533 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: of the designs you do and how you make them interactive? Sure, 534 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: we like to do things that are positive, things that 535 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: don't make someone stay better. That's are really one of 536 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: the big motivations behind it. Because in Seattle and the 537 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: Pacific Northwestern general, people tend to suffer from sad seasonal 538 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: effect of disorder. The skies are gray and it's dreary 539 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: and wet all the time. So we figured we could 540 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: take that thing that causes the juriess the rain and 541 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: use it to make people smile. We did a lock 542 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: nest monster at a at a dock out in over 543 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: a lake here in Seattle Green Lake so that people 544 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: could stumble upon the monster while they were out on 545 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: rainy days. We do games. Sometimes you've done like it 546 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: Don't Touch the Lava game. Um, We've done like nostalgic 547 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,959 Speaker 1: references to like characters that we love as like when 548 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: we were kids. So like we've done like a Peter 549 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: Pan rainwork, and like the Calvin and Hobbs rain work. 550 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: Basically just whatever we think would like cheer someone up 551 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,239 Speaker 1: or make them smile or make them think when they 552 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: see it it's funny. I mean even hearing the examples 553 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: makes you smile. That's pretty great. And you've now turned 554 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: this into a business. So what are the best applications 555 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: of your rain works? And you know that you've seen 556 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: in the wild now, oh man, we've seen so many 557 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: from all over the world. Some people have done like 558 00:29:54,760 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: promposals or actual wedding proposals with them. We've seen people 559 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: use public sountains to make like dolphins that appear. Yeah, 560 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: there's one just like a day or two ago where 561 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: they coated a canvas with it and through water balloons 562 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: with like water based paint in them, through do a 563 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: gender reveal. Right back that was what that was. Yeah, Yeah, 564 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: that kind of works a little differently because our spray 565 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: doesn't repel paint, but it like reacted with it in 566 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: a certain way, so it does kind of make the 567 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: letters pop, but like not in the way you expect. 568 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: It's really interesting to see like a new application for it, 569 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: and that's really been the coolest thing is like just 570 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: since this started, it's really taken off just all around 571 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: the world, and we get like new one's popping up 572 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: in like Denmark and like Taiwan and like Armenia. Does 573 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: having worked on this project make you look forward to 574 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: rainy days? Like do you sit on benches waiting for 575 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: people to interact with the art? Oh? Absolutely. It has 576 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: completely changed our perspective on rainy days. And one of 577 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: our favorite things to hear when we tell people about 578 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: project is them the words coming out of their mouths, 579 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I can't wait till it rains now, 580 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: Like that means the world to us. We become so 581 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: hyper sensitive to it that every time it starts to 582 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: rain or like the forecast predicts range, like we're like 583 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: on the edge of our chieves, like we're preparing, we're 584 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:23,239 Speaker 1: making work, our our whole work as well, depends on 585 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: the weather. For sure. We'll tell us a little bit 586 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: about your connection with the Awesome Foundation. Sure. When I 587 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: had this idea, it was just an idea, like on 588 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: a note in my phone for a long time, but 589 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: it was one of one of my favorites, and I 590 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: started mentioning it to people and eventually mentioned it to 591 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: a friend in Seattle who was part of the Seattle 592 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: chapter of the Awesome Foundation. For anyone doesn't know, the 593 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: Awesome Foundation is an organization that every month it's one 594 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: dollars the person with a cool idea or an awesome idea, 595 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: as they put it, No, it's things attached. So I 596 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: submitted this rain activated our idea, but we're not called 597 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: rain works do the Austin Foundation, And they accepted it, 598 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: and that was what really gave it the first push. 599 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: All right, well, I thought we should play a little 600 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: game with these guys, and Mango, you came up with 601 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: one that's appropriate from what what game are we playing 602 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: with a Peregrine and Zach, it's called I'm Only have 603 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: you in it rains? All right, we love your rainy 604 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: Day project, and we figured we'd give you a quiz 605 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: where all the answers involved rain and you can work 606 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: together on this. So you guys, ready, ready, alright? He 607 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: got five questions for you, all right. Number one, Gene 608 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: Kelly had a one hundred and three degree fever when 609 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: he danced the big number in this rainy movie. What 610 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: classic film are we talking about? For one? Number two, 611 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: Prince's manager questioned the decision to put When Doves Cry 612 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: and this movie slash album because the song didn't have 613 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: a baseline and he didn't think it would be a hit. 614 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: What Prince movie are we talking about? Purple? Yes? Alright? 615 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: Number three? All these culture references and depending on yours action, 616 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: he's really pulling through alright. Number three. During the filming 617 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: of this award winning movie, both Tom Cruise and Dustin 618 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: Hoffman thought the flick would be a clunker. The whole time. 619 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: They referred to it as two schmucks in a car. 620 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: What movie are we talking about? Wait? I got this one, Ramon, 621 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: alright with the big answer, here we go. Number four. 622 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: Before this actor won the role of Dwight Shrut on 623 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: the office seth Rogan had auditioned for the role. Who 624 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,719 Speaker 1: are we talking about? Wilson? Yes, they both got that one, 625 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: all right. The last question see if you can get 626 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: the perfect score number five. This song, written by Paul 627 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: Shaffer and performed by the Weather Girls, was intended to 628 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: be a gay anthe much like Y M c A. 629 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: You know the name of the song, It's rain Man. Yes, alright. 630 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: How did they do a mango our ols when astounding 631 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: five for five, which means we'll be sending them our 632 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: top prize, a handwritten note to their mom or boss 633 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: singing their praises congratulations, m thanks so much. Yeah, that's awesome. Listeners, 634 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,800 Speaker 1: please check out rain dot works when you get a second, 635 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 1: and thank you guys so much for all the work 636 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 1: you do and for putting smiles on so many faces 637 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:39,919 Speaker 1: having us. Okay, well, so we talked about fictional invisibility 638 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 1: cloaks as well as the closest things we have two 639 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: real life ones. But there's one more thing I want 640 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 1: to talk about, and it's the psychological sort kind of 641 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: a psychological invisibility quote. I don't even know how that 642 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 1: would work. Is like a helmet that would block your 643 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 1: brain waves or something like that. Yeah that's a good guess, 644 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: but no, nothing like that. I'm actually talking about the 645 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: great study I came across about a nomena called it 646 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: invisibility cloak illusion, and that's the name researchers at Yale 647 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: University came up with for our mistaken belief that we 648 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: observe others way more than others observe us. All Right, 649 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: so this is kind of like us pretending that maybe 650 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: we're under invisibility cloaks when we're out in public, if 651 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: we're grocery shopping or walking our dogs or something like that, 652 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: exactly pretty much any time we're in public, really, So 653 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 1: the team describes it this way, and they're abstract. Quote, 654 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: whether at a coffee shop, in a waiting room, or 655 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,879 Speaker 1: riding the bus, people frequently observe the other people around them, 656 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,760 Speaker 1: Yet they failed to realize how much other people engage 657 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 1: in the same behavior, and that they therefore also are 658 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: being observed. Because it's logically impossible that people, on average 659 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: are the subjects of observation more than they are objects 660 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 1: of it. The belief that one watches others more than 661 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 1: one is watched is an illusion that's pretty wild. I mean, 662 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: we feel like we're invisible when the fact that we 663 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 1: observe others should tell us just the opposite. Of this, 664 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: And I really can't understand why we make this silly mistake, 665 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: because it's just that we're egoman acts, and you know, 666 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: we think we're the observant person and the only observant 667 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: person in the room. Yeah, that's definitely part of it. 668 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 1: But at least there's a good reason why we think 669 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: that way. And why is that? Well, the researchers that 670 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: Yale concluded that social norms compel our neighbors to pretend 671 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: to be busy with something else if it looks like 672 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: we might catch them watching us. All right, so we've 673 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: secretly scoped out the competition at a job interview, or 674 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 1: a glance around the waiting room and a doctor's office, 675 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,360 Speaker 1: and you know, just in case we need an alibi, 676 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,240 Speaker 1: we have a magazine or something like that. It's funny 677 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: that we all assume we're the only ones who do this, though, Right, 678 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 1: so when it's actually so widespread and phenomena that it 679 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 1: even has its own name, researchers call it civil and attention. 680 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: I kind of like that. Yeah, But my favorite part 681 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 1: of the study is this line from the conclusion, however 682 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: irresistible the sensation of being invisible, maybe it is not 683 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: to be trusted. That sounds exactly right, and it actually 684 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: makes it me think of this this other study I 685 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: read on the logic of the game Peekaboo. Apparently it's 686 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: this great display of the kind of nonsensical logic that 687 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 1: most kids share, namely the idea that you can make 688 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: yourself invisible by just covering your own eyes. So the 689 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: study was what like scientists rounded up a bunch of 690 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: toddlers and had this epic peekaboo session, Not exactly, but 691 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: but kind of. So the researchers at the University of 692 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: Cambridge had a group of three and four year olds 693 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: where I'm asked, and then they asked them whether they 694 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: could be seen by researchers or if they were invisible 695 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 1: to them. Then they asked the kids whether the researchers 696 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: would be able to see adults if those adults were 697 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: wearing eyemask like their's, and unsurprisingly, nearly all the kids 698 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: said they were hidden from view while their eyes were covered, 699 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 1: and most of them actually thought the imask would make 700 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: the adults invisible too, which is super cute. But did 701 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: the researchers have any ideas for why almost every child 702 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 1: subscribes to that weird logic. Well, actually, here's where things 703 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 1: get really interesting. And because when kids had their eyes covered, 704 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 1: they felt invisible, which fair enough, I mean, I think 705 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 1: we've all heard that before. But the researchers started to 706 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,239 Speaker 1: press them on what invisibility meant, and surprisingly, the kids 707 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 1: conceded that their bodies weren't actually hidden it all. In 708 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: the sixth so they admitted their bodies could still be 709 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: seen even when their eyes were covered. So what do 710 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 1: they mean by invisible? Well, that's the weirdest part and 711 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 1: where this gets a little deep here. So the implication 712 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: was that the kids felt it was their true self 713 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 1: that was being hidden from view. So basically, they were saying, 714 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: I know, you can still see my arms and my 715 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: legs and all that when my eyes are closed, but 716 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 1: you can't see me, which is which is pretty existential, 717 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 1: you know, I know. It's it's like the children share 718 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: some natural distinction between, you know, the physical body and 719 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 1: the metaphysical self. And I just find this stuff fascinating. 720 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: And you know, because most adults tend to think of 721 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,479 Speaker 1: their consciousness and their body being joined together in some way, 722 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,319 Speaker 1: and studies like this suggests that perception might be something 723 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: we only adopt or maybe decide on later in life. Yeah, 724 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 1: that's especially interesting when you think about how people always 725 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: say the eyes of the window to the soul, or 726 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: that eye contact Foster's understanding. I mean, in some ways, 727 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: covering your eyes really is like withdrawing yourself from the 728 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: world and making yourself from visible. Alright, well, Mango, you 729 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: need to keep those eyes open, because there's only one 730 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: thing you can't hide from, the PGG fact off exactly. 731 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,760 Speaker 1: All right, here's something I hadn't thought about. Any lightbeam 732 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 1: weapon you see in the movies, from photon torpedoes to 733 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: invisible rays, they're all things you won't see coming. So 734 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: anytime a sci fi hero is in a jet dodging 735 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,360 Speaker 1: those rays, none of that's possible. You know that some 736 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: of the things you see in movies you just ruined 737 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,319 Speaker 1: all movies did so I want to know a figure 738 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:41,359 Speaker 1: who's basically become invisible. Jeremiah Dummer. Most people know Yale 739 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,680 Speaker 1: University is named for Elihu Yale, but Dumber probably did 740 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,320 Speaker 1: more for the early university in terms of securing funds 741 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 1: and building its reputation. The problem is, Dumber College isn't 742 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,920 Speaker 1: a great name. While reindeer are good at spotting polar bears. 743 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,480 Speaker 1: Cameras aren't, so when scientists decided to use infrared cameras 744 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: to locate the bears, they were stunned. But polar bears 745 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,400 Speaker 1: are basically invisible to infrared cameras too. While cameras can 746 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,400 Speaker 1: pick up the heat off their nose and their breath, 747 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 1: their blubber basically does such a good job of trapping 748 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,879 Speaker 1: the heat within that their fur is essentially the same 749 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,759 Speaker 1: temperature as all the snow around it. So despite all 750 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,799 Speaker 1: the safety features and cars with backup cameras and beeping sensors, 751 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: people still back up into lampos. So researchers at Kyo 752 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: University in Japan have come up with back seats that 753 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 1: actually turned transparent when you back up. Basically, it's a 754 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 1: backup camera that projects on the seats, but it does 755 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,320 Speaker 1: the trick of seeming transparent and of course making the 756 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 1: children sitting in those seats disappear as another matter, definitely, 757 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:39,799 Speaker 1: all right, here's a fun one about not being seen. 758 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: A building supervisor in Spain skipped work for six years 759 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: and kept collecting his salary. You know the only reason 760 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: he got caught. People got suspicious when he won an 761 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:53,360 Speaker 1: award for twenty years of loyal service. In two thousand 762 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 1: and six, magician David Copperfield and his two assistants were 763 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,839 Speaker 1: walking down the street when Mugger's approached and demanded all 764 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: their money and wild assistants forked over plane tickets, cell phones, 765 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: and over five in cash. Copperfield used sleight of hand 766 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,840 Speaker 1: to show the gun wielding robbers that his pockets were empty. 767 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,759 Speaker 1: He reperformed the trick at the police station and wow 768 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 1: the officers, showing them he actually had a passport and 769 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 1: lots of cash on him the whole time. I know 770 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 1: he's such a performer, but he did help catch the 771 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,719 Speaker 1: bad guys and I kind of love it all right. Well, 772 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 1: in that case, I'm gonna have to give you today's 773 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,400 Speaker 1: championship belt. So that's it for today's episode. Thanks so 774 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:44,920 Speaker 1: much for listening, Thanks again for listening. Part Time Genius 775 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:46,880 Speaker 1: is a production of how stuff works and wouldn't be 776 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,799 Speaker 1: possible without several brilliant people who do the important things 777 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: we couldn't even begin to understand. Chris and McNeil does 778 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 1: the editing thing. Noel Brown made the theme song and 779 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,840 Speaker 1: does the MIXI mixy sound thing. Jerry Rowland does the 780 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,440 Speaker 1: exact producer thing. Gay Bluesier, our lead researcher, with support 781 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,279 Speaker 1: from the Research Army, including Austin Thompson, Nolan Brown and 782 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 1: Lucas Adams and Eve Jeff Cook gets the show to 783 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: your ears. Good job, Eves. If you like what you heard, 784 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,080 Speaker 1: we hope you'll subscribe, And if you really really like 785 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,000 Speaker 1: what you've heard, maybe you could leave a good review 786 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,720 Speaker 1: for us. Do we do? We forget Jason? Jason who