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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if you've had

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Speaker 1: an experience with manipulation or abusive power you'd like to share,

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Speaker 1: leave us a message on our hotline number at five

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Speaker 1: one three nine hundred two nine five five.

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Speaker 2: Or shoot us an email at trust Me pod at

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Speaker 2: gmail dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust me, trust Me. I'm like a swat person. I've

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Speaker 3: never lived. To you, if you think that.

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Speaker 4: One person has all the answers, don't. Welcome to trust Me.

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Speaker 1: The podcast about cult, Extreme you Believe and the abuse

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Speaker 1: of power from two definitely real psychics who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 5: I am Lola Blanc and I am Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 4: Was that my psychic boys? I don't know what that was.

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Speaker 5: It's something kind of sad. Welcome to trust me. The

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Speaker 5: psychic inside of you is like depressed, I think. Welcome.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I honestly all the things inside me are depressed. So

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Speaker 4: that's wrong.

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Speaker 5: Okay, cool.

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Speaker 4: Today our guest is Bob Nigard.

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Speaker 1: He's a private investigator who specializes in psychic fraud. In

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Speaker 1: part one, today we're going to discuss the connection between

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Speaker 1: these so called self proclaimed psychics and cult leaders. Bob's

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Speaker 1: history is starting out as a cop and learning about

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Speaker 1: what's called confidence crime and eventually becoming the psychic hunter.

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Speaker 1: But he'll tell us why he doesn't love that term.

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Speaker 2: We'll also talk about getting some of these fraudsters behind

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Speaker 2: bars and getting victims of their money back, how psychics

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Speaker 2: groom their victims, and the kinds of people who go

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Speaker 2: to psychics.

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Speaker 5: They're smarter than you think.

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Speaker 1: Like me, I was gonna say seventy percent of my

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Speaker 1: group of friends, so yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, they're very smart people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, listen, I love psychics casually for funzies.

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Speaker 5: Who doesn't exactly.

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Speaker 1: I want someone to tell me what my future is

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Speaker 1: that a man seems great. Hopefully they'll tell me that

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Speaker 1: my future is feeling better.

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Speaker 4: That would be nice.

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Speaker 5: What's going on? Are you? Are you kind of sick

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Speaker 5: or are you just sad?

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Speaker 6: No?

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Speaker 4: I was just crying. Hi, everyone, I was crying.

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Speaker 3: Why.

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Speaker 4: I've just been struggling with my OCD recovery.

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Speaker 2: Oh shit, maybe that can be our cultiest thing because

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Speaker 2: we're both in OCD recovery groups.

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Speaker 5: I just went to the same place you're going.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, how's it going for you?

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Speaker 2: I'm good, but we haven't we're not doing any of

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Speaker 2: the hard stuff.

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Speaker 5: Yet you're doing like, uh, the.

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Speaker 1: ERP exposure and response prevention. But it's only been a

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Speaker 1: couple weeks of it, and it's amazing because like I

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Speaker 1: started doing these little exposures for the deal realization, which

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Speaker 1: so I have like post it notes all over my

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Speaker 1: apartment that basically remind me of derealization, which is so

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Speaker 1: fucking funny. And then as soon as I started doing that,

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Speaker 1: my theme, as it's called like the content of the obsession,

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Speaker 1: like immediately just switched to something else. Ooh, So it's

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Speaker 1: it feels like a game. What do you call It's

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Speaker 1: like it feels like we have a black a mole, yeah,

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Speaker 1: where I'm like, well, I just you can't just give

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Speaker 1: me a new one just because I'm like doing better

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Speaker 1: with the other one, Like come on.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I talked about this one here,

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Speaker 2: but when I was flying home to Kansas, stop me

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Speaker 2: if I did.

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Speaker 5: Basically we started hitting turbulence.

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Speaker 2: I hate flying, and I was just like, okay, I'm

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Speaker 2: ana count to sixty thirteen times some stupid rule that

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Speaker 2: I make in my head. And then I was like, Megan,

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Speaker 2: I'm not doing that. I'm in this OCD therapy, it's

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Speaker 2: not going to keep you safe. I am not doing it.

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Speaker 2: And for like forty five seconds, I was free falling

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Speaker 2: an absolute misery and tear, and then all this creative

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Speaker 2: energy came up and I just started writing new material.

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Speaker 4: I love that.

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Speaker 5: It was so strange.

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Speaker 2: It was like all of it was waiting on the

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Speaker 2: other side of that compulsion.

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Speaker 1: I do feel like it helps so much to just

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Speaker 1: like express it in some way, which is why.

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Speaker 5: We got to do the show that we were talking about.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, but anyway, that wasn't going to be my

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Speaker 1: cultiest thing. That just like happened to be happening, right.

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Speaker 1: Would you like to know my actual cultiest thing?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 5: I would.

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Speaker 2: Can I use that one as my cultiest thing because

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Speaker 2: that's mine? Oh okay, just trying to get over it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: what's yours?

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Speaker 1: I just read a Newsweek interview with our pal Jatarth Jadeja,

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Speaker 1: who was on an earlier episode. He was the one

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Speaker 1: for anyone who didn't hear it, who was a former

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Speaker 1: QAnon believer, and he's so fucking funny and smart.

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Speaker 5: Truly is very funny.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So there was an FBI report released in June This

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Speaker 1: is all from the Newsweek article. It warn't if the

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Speaker 1: possibility that some QAnon adherents could commit acts of violence.

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Speaker 1: The report cautioned that some believers could quote begin to

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Speaker 1: believe they can no longer trust the plan referenced in

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Speaker 1: QAnon posts, and they have an obligation to change from

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Speaker 1: serving as digital soldiers toward engaging in real world violence.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 4: So that was the FBI report.

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Speaker 1: So then Jatarth commented on it and was like, I

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Speaker 1: disagree with people who say that QAnon is fading away.

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Speaker 1: I think its believers are growing as fast as the

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Speaker 1: fandom of Game of Thrones when it came out their

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Speaker 1: content might be banned from popular social media, but I

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Speaker 1: think they are still here, flourishing away from the eyes

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Speaker 1: of polite society. And he said, I think it's inevitable

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Speaker 1: that more real world violence will occur in the future.

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Speaker 1: And a perfect example of this is that I just

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Speaker 1: read about this q and on offshoot cult run by

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Speaker 1: this guy named Michael Brian Prattzman, known to his followers

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Speaker 1: as Negative forty five, Okay, created like a q andon

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Speaker 1: like offshoot cult, like a very stamp all in one place,

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Speaker 1: concentrated in one place, planning shit together kind of cult.

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Speaker 1: They camped out in Dallas for weeks in November awaiting

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Speaker 1: the return of JFK and JFK Junior, and then of

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Speaker 1: course they didn't come when they said they were going

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Speaker 1: to come. So it's just like such classic cult stuff.

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Speaker 1: But it's fascinating to me how we talk about QAnon

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Speaker 1: like it's just this online thing where people are sort

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Speaker 1: of individually becoming radicalized. But what's actually happening now is

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Speaker 1: it's turning into real world, real life, actual physical cults,

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Speaker 1: and it is very scary the possibility of that becoming

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Speaker 1: violent at some point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because the way it has become violent so far

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Speaker 2: is very scary, and usually against little kids. Wait, what

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Speaker 2: like the man who just murdered his children and another

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Speaker 2: man also murdered his children because of QAnon.

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Speaker 5: You've read about us? I did not.

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Speaker 4: I do not know what you're talking to.

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Speaker 2: You haven't read about the guy in San Diego who

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Speaker 2: put a spirit through both of his children.

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Speaker 5: No, yeah, oh my god, because.

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Speaker 2: He does doesn't want them to be like infected by

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Speaker 2: the aliens or whatever.

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Speaker 5: No, and his wife.

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Speaker 2: Said she had no idea, and then that he was

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Speaker 2: this radicalized and then another man also killed his children.

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Speaker 4: Whow Yeah, that is so fucking sad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think like because Trump isn't at the center

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Speaker 1: of our political discourse every day now, we aren't thinking

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Speaker 1: about it as much. But it is out there and

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Speaker 1: it's flourishing, and I wish I had some answer for

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Speaker 1: what to do about it, other than like provide people

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Speaker 1: some other kind of community or something to believe in

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Speaker 1: so that they don't have to turn to this. You know,

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Speaker 1: we start our own cult. It's the anti QAnon cult.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, just to.

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Speaker 2: Give people answers. We have like all we're like, this

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Speaker 2: is what happens when you die. It's just a diagram

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Speaker 2: that we've made up.

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Speaker 1: I would like it, Yeah, to save people from joining

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Speaker 1: the harmful ones. Like whatever, we won't abuse our power.

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Speaker 1: We'll just like give people something to believe it exactly.

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Speaker 4: I love it.

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Speaker 1: I love it, And you know what else, I love

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Speaker 1: Bob nygard Ah.

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Speaker 2: He's good. You guys have a special connection. He understands

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Speaker 2: your art completely. I also have a special connection with him,

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Speaker 2: just because he's the most adorable person I've ever seen.

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Speaker 2: And he kept hearing me say that because I would

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Speaker 2: think that we were disconnected from him, and I'd be

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Speaker 2: like human bunny and then he'd be like hello and

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Speaker 2: I was like, no, nothing, there's.

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Speaker 1: Happened multiple times. You guys should be like, I love him.

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Speaker 1: He's so adorable, and he'd be like, oh, thank you.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, Puck, we didn't know you're listening. Luckily, we

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Speaker 4: just we don't talk shit. We just like say wonderful things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, So he's great. I cannot wait for people

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Speaker 2: to hear this episode.

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Speaker 4: Same, let's get into it.

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Speaker 5: Okay, let's do it, Pep, Pep.

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Speaker 7: Welcome Bob Nigard to the show.

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Speaker 4: So excited to have you.

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Speaker 3: On who I'm so excited to be part of this.

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Speaker 6: I've been trying to talk about how cults are related

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Speaker 6: to psychics for a long time, and nobody else has

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Speaker 6: picked up on the connection. So it's really a thrill

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Speaker 6: for me to be able to speak with you guys.

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Speaker 3: About this topic.

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Speaker 4: It's a thrill to speak with you.

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Speaker 1: And I'm surprised that people aren't making that connection because

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Speaker 1: it seems so obvious.

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Speaker 3: I would think, yeah, I mean to me it is

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Speaker 3: and to you it is, but to the.

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Speaker 4: General public totally.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 2: I will just say I had a memory while I

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Speaker 2: was talking to you guys that I forgot that happened

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Speaker 2: to me as soon as I moved to Los Angeles.

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Speaker 2: I got off the plane from Kansas. A psychic immediately

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Speaker 2: grabbed me, as it seems want to do, and I

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Speaker 2: went into her office and had a reading, and she

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Speaker 2: was like, all right, you're just gonna need to buy

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Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars worth of special candles and then the

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Speaker 2: curse will be lifted. And I remember being like, well, shit,

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Speaker 2: I don't have ten thousand dollars for candles, Thank.

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Speaker 5: God, because otherwise I probably would have given it to her.

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Speaker 5: So thank you for triggering that memory for me.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that's typical. I mean, you know, to give you

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Speaker 6: a little rundown on how it starts. I mean, they

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Speaker 6: either come up to someone in a public place, or

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Speaker 6: they have a storefront like one of these what they

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Speaker 6: call an ofisa an office, and it's a storefront where

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Speaker 6: they have to sign up the neon sign and says

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Speaker 6: psychic on it, and you know, people get drawn in

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Speaker 6: or you know, or they go online and they bring

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Speaker 6: people in online. So that's the three ways that I

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Speaker 6: find that they kind of rope people in. And then

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Speaker 6: when someone comes in, they size the person up right away.

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Speaker 6: They look at this person, they wear, what kind of

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Speaker 6: car did they drive? You know, what kind of clothes

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Speaker 6: are they wearing? Or they you know, it looks like

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Speaker 6: there's a good mark what they call a mark, right

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Speaker 6: and then they want to see is the person here

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Speaker 6: just for entertainment. Is it like someone that just came

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Speaker 6: in on a Saturday night, that just walked in and

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Speaker 6: just wants to do it on a lark, or is

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Speaker 6: it someone that has a deep seated problem.

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Speaker 3: So they do what's called.

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Speaker 6: A cold reading, So cold reading me someone walked in

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Speaker 6: cold off the street. And then they start to basically

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Speaker 6: they're doing us with an alleged psychic reading, but what

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Speaker 6: they're really doing is interviewing the person. They're looking at

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Speaker 6: verbal clues, the non verbal clues, and they're picking up

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Speaker 6: on the things. And then that the person opens up

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Speaker 6: to them and they repeat things back to the person

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Speaker 6: in a way that makes the person think that they're

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Speaker 6: telling them something for the first time.

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Speaker 3: Well, they've already given it up.

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Speaker 6: They start talking about relationship issues, health issues, money issues.

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Speaker 6: Usually it's love, money, or health of the three big

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Speaker 6: things that they key in on.

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Speaker 1: So you are a private investigator specializing in the investigation

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Speaker 1: of confidence crimes and especially psychic fraud. In the second

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Speaker 1: I'll have you exclaim what confidence crimes means. But you've

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Speaker 1: been involved in the arrest and conviction of numerous self

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Speaker 1: proclaimed psychics, getting a financial restitution for their victims amounting

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Speaker 1: to millions of dollars, and you've consulted for ABC News

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty, you've been on Anderson Cooper. The Guardian described

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Speaker 1: you as America's psychic crime fighter, which is pretty cool.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd say so.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, How did you get involved in this line of

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Speaker 1: work in the first place?

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Speaker 4: How did this come to be your specialty?

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Speaker 6: Well, you know, back when I was a cop, I

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Speaker 6: had a case involving some transient criminals where they had

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Speaker 6: gone into an elderly neighbor's house of mine and they

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Speaker 6: were pretending to be from like the water company. And

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Speaker 6: there was three guys in a truck with a walking

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Speaker 6: talking and it was two guys that went into the

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Speaker 6: house and one moves in her seventies and they were

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Speaker 6: doing what they call a distraction burglary. They come in,

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Speaker 6: they say it from the water company. They tell us,

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Speaker 6: just go in a basement, bang on the pikes, and

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Speaker 6: then the other one goes through the house and then steals.

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Speaker 3: So when I made that arrest, it was a big arrest.

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Speaker 3: It had nothing to do with psychics.

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Speaker 6: But what happened was there was a guy in Baltimore,

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Speaker 6: a sergeant in the Baltimore Police Department by the name

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Speaker 6: of John grow and he he was retired, you know,

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Speaker 6: after that he retired and started an organization. But at

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Speaker 6: the time he was a sergeant and he called me

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Speaker 6: and said, Bob, this is such a great arrest. You know,

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Speaker 6: we have these transient criminal groups that are traveling around

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Speaker 6: the country and they're committing all these type of transient crimes.

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Speaker 6: And you know, you've stumbled onto something here that's you know,

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Speaker 6: major criminal enterprise. And he started this fight to me,

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Speaker 6: how some men do the men in these in these

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Speaker 6: organizations do home improvement scams, some of the women do

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Speaker 6: fortune telling, other women do sweetheart swindles of the elderly.

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Speaker 6: They'll meet an old man in a parking lot or

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Speaker 6: in a grocery store, come on to him, and the

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Speaker 6: next thing you know, she's changing his will, you know,

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Speaker 6: having him buy a.

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Speaker 3: Car for hers.

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Speaker 6: You know, was telling us she wants to marry him

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Speaker 6: and stuff like that. So you have insurance fraud, you

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Speaker 6: have driveway sealed coating repair scams, you have a fortune

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Speaker 6: telling fraud. So anyway, this guy, John grow he immersed

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Speaker 6: me into this whole world of confidence schemes based on

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Speaker 6: this one arrest that I had made. And so he

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Speaker 6: started sending me pictures of various fortune tellers and burglars

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Speaker 6: and stuff like that, and so I became immersed in

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Speaker 6: this whole world of confidence games through him. He became

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Speaker 6: a mentor to me, and that's how I learned all

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Speaker 6: about it. And then it wasn't until many years later

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Speaker 6: I retired and went to Florida. I was going to

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Speaker 6: sit on the beach do nothing, you know, just start

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Speaker 6: of teak pause at night and last I was forty

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Speaker 6: four years old. I'm retired, I'm good to go, and

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Speaker 6: I'm out at the Neighborhood Bar and Grill. One night,

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Speaker 6: that's the name of the place. It was a pickup

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Speaker 6: spot on Wednesday Night's happy hour. I get a doctor

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Speaker 6: and a nurse. I start chatting them up. They wanted

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Speaker 6: to hear war stories from when I was a cop,

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Speaker 6: interesting cases and stuff. I started talking about confidence schemes,

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Speaker 6: and with that, you know, that was the end of it.

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Speaker 6: We gave them my card, went on my way, and

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Speaker 6: then about fifteen minutes later, the doctor called me. He said, hey,

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Speaker 6: could you meet me down at the corner gas station.

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Speaker 6: I want to talk to you.

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Speaker 3: I said, okay.

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Speaker 6: You know, I didn't really know what she wanted at

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Speaker 6: that point, so I went down to the gas station,

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Speaker 6: and then she proceeded to tell me. Listen, Bob, I

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Speaker 6: didn't want to say nothing in front of the nurse

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Speaker 6: because I work with her and I've never been able

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Speaker 6: to tell anybody, but you were so passionate when you

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Speaker 6: were telling the stories about the things you've done that

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Speaker 6: I feel that I can open up to you and

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Speaker 6: tell you about something that happened to me.

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Speaker 3: And I'm wondering if maybe you could help me. So

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Speaker 3: I said, yeah, sure. You know what is it? She said,

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Speaker 3: I was ripped off by a psychic. She goes, Bob,

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Speaker 3: I'm on a mass I'm.

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Speaker 6: A medical doctor, and I was ripped off twelve thousand,

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Speaker 6: five hundred dollars by a psychic. And I have nobody

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Speaker 6: that I could tell, and I'm wondering as anything you

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Speaker 6: can do, so I took that case. I quickly found

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Speaker 6: five other women, and with that I built the case

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Speaker 6: on behalf of the five women. And then I ended

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Speaker 6: up helping get the psychic arrested. And then she ended

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Speaker 6: up paying back sixty five thousand dollars to the five

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Speaker 6: women made un Stine only made the paper. But nobody

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00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:15,840
Speaker 6: else has been making this type of an arrest, Like

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00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,240
Speaker 6: everybody had just been calling it a civil matter. But

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00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,000
Speaker 6: I knew from being a cop so many years, how

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Speaker 6: to utilize, you know, use the law and relate it

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Speaker 6: to the theft statutes and get her arrested.

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Speaker 3: So everybody looks and sees it in the paper.

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Speaker 6: Next thing you know, they start saying, pop and I

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00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,800
Speaker 6: got the psychic hunter, you know, the psychic crime fighter.

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Speaker 6: People started calling me out of the woodwork, and you know,

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Speaker 6: it's like you can look in the paper, you see,

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Speaker 6: you know, look up a lawyer. There's plenty of lawyers,

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Speaker 6: look at accountants. But how many psychic hunters are you

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Speaker 6: going to find? You know, like, I think I'm the

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Speaker 6: only guy in the world.

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Speaker 3: To track it down psychas you know, which is really unique.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's incredible for that first case and also

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Speaker 1: in general, what is the evidence that you're finding, Like,

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Speaker 1: how are you finding the other victims?

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Speaker 4: I just want to know what the case would look like.

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Speaker 3: First case Y had that first case.

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Speaker 6: What happened was I had the original victim who's the doctor,

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Speaker 6: And I said to her, listen, how did you come

357
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Speaker 6: across this psychic? And she said, oh, well, my maid

358
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Speaker 6: recommended her. And I said, okay, let's go back to

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Speaker 6: your house.

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Speaker 3: I need to interview your maid. So I went back

361
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Speaker 3: interviewed the maid and said, how do you know this psychic?

362
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Speaker 3: How did you recommend her?

363
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Speaker 6: And she says, oh, well, all the girls are down

364
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Speaker 6: at the nail salon, you know, see her. And I said, well,

365
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,160
Speaker 6: what nail salons? Well, it turned out it was a

366
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Speaker 6: woman who was doing it in.

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Speaker 3: Or out of her house.

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Speaker 6: She was giving facials and doing nails and stuff. And

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Speaker 6: there was four other women that were seeing this woman

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Speaker 6: who were also seeing the same psychic who went by

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Speaker 6: the name of Gever Remarks. And so I built the

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Speaker 6: case on behalf of all of them. And then what

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Speaker 6: I do is I look for the provable lies. Okay,

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Speaker 6: what was it that she was saying to them? One

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Speaker 6: of the big things is a lot of people don't

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Speaker 6: realize a lot of times when the psychic takes the

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Speaker 6: money from the person, they tell them that don't worry,

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Speaker 6: the money's not for me. I'm doing God's work, Okay,

379
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Speaker 6: I'm going to return the money upon the completion of

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00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,840
Speaker 6: the work. And so the people are not parting with

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00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,200
Speaker 6: their money because they think they're paying for a service.

382
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,120
Speaker 6: They're parting with their money because they believe it's coming back.

383
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Speaker 6: So there's a big difference there.

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Speaker 3: So you have a.

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Speaker 6: Theft because they were never paying the psychic money to

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Speaker 6: do something to remove.

387
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Speaker 3: People's spirits or curses.

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Speaker 6: They were just giving the psychic the money to temporarily

389
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,240
Speaker 6: bring to all direct the church and pray over it

390
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,440
Speaker 6: and cleanse the money, and then give it back. She

391
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,720
Speaker 6: said she needed to use the money as a tool

392
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Speaker 6: as part of the work in order to because the

393
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,200
Speaker 6: catch is, they say money is the root of all evil,

394
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Speaker 6: and what we need to do is draw it to

395
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,920
Speaker 6: blockages or the negativity or a negative energy.

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Speaker 3: We need to draw it away from you.

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Speaker 6: And what we need to use is money because money

398
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,040
Speaker 6: is the root of all evil, and the evil will

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Speaker 6: want to go to the money because evil loves money.

400
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Speaker 3: So you give me this money.

401
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,360
Speaker 6: And then of course it's like they start them off

402
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,720
Speaker 6: with a twenty dollars reading. Then I need eight hundred

403
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,720
Speaker 6: dollars for crystals and candles. Then all of a sudden,

404
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,800
Speaker 6: we go from eight hundred dollars for crystals and candles.

405
00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:07,760
Speaker 6: So you need to do some rituals. You need to

406
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,320
Speaker 6: put some stuff into bath. Then the next thing you know,

407
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,439
Speaker 6: they say you need to get an egg from the

408
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,000
Speaker 6: store and you need to put it under your mattress.

409
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,439
Speaker 6: And then you need to get one thousand dollars for

410
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,639
Speaker 6: each year that you've been alive. So if you're twenty

411
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,320
Speaker 6: six years old, you need to get twenty six thousand dollars.

412
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,040
Speaker 6: You need to take that twenty six thousand dollars, put

413
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,159
Speaker 6: it under your mattress at night when you go to sleep.

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00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:28,240
Speaker 3: I'm gonna call you.

415
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,639
Speaker 6: We're gonna say some prayers, and then what's going to

416
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,439
Speaker 6: happen is the evil's gonna leave you and go towards

417
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,520
Speaker 6: the money. But what we're gonna do is we need

418
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,359
Speaker 6: something to trap it in. We're gonna trap it in

419
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Speaker 6: the egg. The egg represents the soul, and so the

420
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,600
Speaker 6: person's thinking, okay, well I gave it an addictional money

421
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:45,600
Speaker 6: for the reading. I gave her some money for crystals

422
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,120
Speaker 6: and candles to see what the root.

423
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Speaker 3: Cause of the problem is. She told me the root

424
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Speaker 3: cause is some negativity of blockage or curse.

425
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Speaker 6: Now she's telling me I have to do these rituals.

426
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,480
Speaker 6: So the person does the rituals. The self proclaimed sechet

427
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Speaker 6: calls the person up and says.

428
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Speaker 3: Oh, we've go get this spair. The evil has gone

429
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:02,359
Speaker 3: to the money. You need to bring it to me

430
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Speaker 3: right away.

431
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,399
Speaker 1: So essentially, it's like in Ghostbusters how they trap the

432
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,760
Speaker 1: ghosts in the box and the money has all of

433
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,240
Speaker 1: the evil, right, Okay.

434
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, what's the evil? Right? Exactly?

435
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:14,080
Speaker 4: Wow.

436
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,199
Speaker 6: So now the person goes to see the psychic and

437
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,080
Speaker 6: they've got all the money and they got the egg,

438
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,240
Speaker 6: and the psychic says, okay, give it all to me

439
00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:25,320
Speaker 6: right now. You know then that they take the person

440
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,320
Speaker 6: and they have candles lit it's dark. They spend a

441
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,879
Speaker 6: person around, They take the egg, they put it in

442
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:31,359
Speaker 6: a bag and they hit.

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Speaker 3: It so it won't break. It won't break. I can't

444
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,119
Speaker 3: understand it, like, and they're very theatrical, and everybody knows

445
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:38,840
Speaker 3: an egg should break if you hit it, you know.

446
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,560
Speaker 6: So now the person is freaking out. The victim's freaking out.

447
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,119
Speaker 6: The psychic pulls the egg out of the bag, hits it,

448
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,640
Speaker 6: tells the victim, and blood comes out of the egg.

449
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,399
Speaker 6: What is a black object in the egg or a

450
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,320
Speaker 6: devil's head in the egg? Something black and ominous looking.

451
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:54,760
Speaker 6: Usually blood comes out.

452
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,720
Speaker 3: They doped the egg up with cayenne pepper or red lick.

453
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,639
Speaker 6: They shoot it and they would needle. They doctor it

454
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,800
Speaker 6: up and they have an egg already in the bag.

455
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,720
Speaker 6: They take the egg out through the switch and hit

456
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,280
Speaker 6: the object and then they say, oh no, look, that's

457
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:10,959
Speaker 6: the manifestation of the evil.

458
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:12,920
Speaker 3: You need to get out of here right away. I'm

459
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,840
Speaker 3: in danger. You're in danger. My whole family's in danger.

460
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:17,840
Speaker 3: You know. You need to get out of here. Don't worry.

461
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,920
Speaker 3: I'll take the egg, the remnants of the egg. I'll

462
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:20,600
Speaker 3: take the money.

463
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,000
Speaker 6: I'll take it to my church to the altar, and

464
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 6: then i'll cleanse the money and then i'll give it

465
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,480
Speaker 6: back to you once I'm done cleansing it. So this

466
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,080
Speaker 6: person is not paying, you know, twenty six thousand dollars

467
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,399
Speaker 6: for this psychic to just remove a curse.

468
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,560
Speaker 3: There's a whole elaborate scam that goes on.

469
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,040
Speaker 6: There's a grooming of a victim, there's a progression of fees,

470
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,040
Speaker 6: there's a cold reading, a progression of fees, and then

471
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,240
Speaker 6: there's the proving of the existence of the curse or

472
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,800
Speaker 6: tricking the person into believing the existence of the curse

473
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,760
Speaker 6: through a magic trick. Sometimes sometimes it's an egg, sometimes

474
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,880
Speaker 6: it's water that turns red.

475
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,320
Speaker 3: They'll tell the person, put a jar under your mattress.

476
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,239
Speaker 3: What I need you to do is spit in the jar.

477
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,720
Speaker 6: Fill a jar up with some water, and then have

478
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,320
Speaker 6: the money wrapped around the jaw with rubber bands, and

479
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,800
Speaker 6: bring me the jaw. Then they'll spin the person around

480
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 6: and then all of a sudden they'll say look, and

481
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,120
Speaker 6: then the water will turn red or black. They drop

482
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 6: some dye in there, and the water changes colors. So

483
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,640
Speaker 6: they proved the existence that it cursed through that. I mean,

484
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:17,639
Speaker 6: you know, I had one woman. She says, pop, she

485
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,200
Speaker 6: had the power, And I said, well, what do you

486
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:20,719
Speaker 6: mean she had the power? She goes, well, she told

487
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 6: me to put my finger in the saucer, and she

488
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:24,680
Speaker 6: had the power and I didn't. I said, what do

489
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:26,280
Speaker 6: you mean put your finger in the saucer. It was

490
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,679
Speaker 6: a new one on me, you know, it was in Colorado.

491
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,440
Speaker 6: So I said, well, what do you mean. She says, well,

492
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,879
Speaker 6: she took up saucer and she had some pepper, and

493
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,199
Speaker 6: she put pepper in the saucer, and she told me,

494
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 6: put your finger in a saucer and watch what happened.

495
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,199
Speaker 6: So the victim put her finger in the water, and

496
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 6: the pepper clung to her finger, and she says, see,

497
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 6: you don't have the power. And then what the psyche

498
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:47,960
Speaker 6: did was she says, watch what happens when I do it.

499
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,080
Speaker 6: And the psyche put her finger in there, and all

500
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,160
Speaker 6: the pepper repelled to the sides of the saucer. It's

501
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,159
Speaker 6: a simple magic trick that if you put soap on

502
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,360
Speaker 6: your finger, the pepper repels. So you have all these

503
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,680
Speaker 6: various you know, water energy are turning colors.

504
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 3: Egg trick. Egg is a very.

505
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,200
Speaker 6: Common one that's been used over for a thousand years,

506
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 6: you know. And so now once they get over that

507
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 6: hurdle and they got the person believing in the existence

508
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 6: of a curse, then they're home free, okay. And then

509
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 6: what happens is, instead of giving the money back, they

510
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,680
Speaker 6: tell the person, oh, you know something, I can't give

511
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,879
Speaker 6: it back because upon doing further research, this is a

512
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 6: lot worse case than I thought.

513
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 3: You know, this is really bad.

514
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 6: You can't tell anybody about what we're doing here.

515
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 3: You have to keep it a secret.

516
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 6: Now, this is one of the hallmarks of a scam,

517
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,160
Speaker 6: isolate the victim from friends and family. They know they're

518
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 6: dealing with a vulnerable person. So what they do is

519
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 6: they swear them to secrecy because they know if that

520
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,119
Speaker 6: person talks to a friend or a family member and says, hey,

521
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 6: I give twenty six thousand dollars to a psychic, that

522
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 6: person you know that's not vulnerable, will say, hey, what

523
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,399
Speaker 6: are you doing? You need to think twice about this.

524
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,399
Speaker 6: So they swear them to secrecy and tell them that

525
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 6: they can't tell anybody. And then they'll even sometimes make

526
00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 6: it worse to say, if you tell anybody, someone in

527
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,919
Speaker 6: your fan and we will die. So it's almost like

528
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 6: it's almost and I don't want to put it on

529
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 6: the same level as but say a sexual abuser is

530
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 6: abusing a child and tells the child don't tell anybody

531
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 6: because if you do, your mother or father will die

532
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 6: or something bad, you know, So this is the deviance

533
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 6: that runs through it. You know, this threat of you know,

534
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 6: you can't tell anybody, so they isolate the victim, and

535
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,400
Speaker 6: then you know, it just goes on and on because

536
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 6: then they tell the person that they can't give the

537
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 6: money back right now, but they are going to give

538
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 6: it back, but they need to put more money into

539
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 6: the work.

540
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 3: Yes, because it's worse than they thought.

541
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 6: And they can't stop now because if they stop now,

542
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 6: it'd be worse than if they had never started.

543
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 5: It's a nightmare.

544
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 3: I mean a nightmare.

545
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 1: You're describing so many things. There's just so many parallels

546
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 1: with cold situations and just abusive any kind of abusive situation.

547
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: The isolation from friends and family is is a huge one.

548
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 1: Mystical manipulation is the stuff with the egg, Like so

549
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 1: many cult leaders will perform a miracle or like.

550
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,199
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I remember the light shining in the eyes

551
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 2: of the Oh yeah, I don't even remember the specifics,

552
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 2: but yeah yeah.

553
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: In the documentary Holy Hell, they talked about that basically,

554
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 1: just like generating these like spiritual experiences that feels so

555
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: undeniable in the moment because you're like, look, there's there's

556
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 1: the proof this person has some special power.

557
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 4: I see it physically.

558
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,919
Speaker 1: Manifesting in this in this room right here, So I

559
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: have to listen to what they say. Wow, the the

560
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 1: the amount of tricks though, I mean, God.

561
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 2: They could be a doctor themselves if they just took

562
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 2: the time to put all that energy into something else, something.

563
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 3: Good, you know. The psychological manipulation and the cells.

564
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,120
Speaker 4: Legitimate right right right, my God, And.

565
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 6: They'd probably get rich that way, you know. But it's

566
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 6: just the devious nature of it that really, you know,

567
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 6: makes my blood boil, and that they're they're going after

568
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 6: vulnerable people, you know, and they're going after someone that

569
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 6: comes in there that you know has a deep citied problem.

570
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 6: You know, someone goes in there like one client, I

571
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 6: had a childhood autism and she didn't know what to do.

572
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 6: Was really bad autism. And the psychic told her, don't worry.

573
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 6: God never meant for your child to have autism.

574
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 3: I can help cure to the autism. No, And I mean,

575
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 3: you know, how do you pray upon a mother like that?

576
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 3: You know?

577
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 6: At one point during a scam, she told her she could.

578
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 6: That was Gina Markster. She told she could bless the banana,

579
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 6: and she gave her a banana. She said that she

580
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 6: blessed and some fluid and had the kid eat the

581
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 6: banana and drink the fluid, saying that the kid would

582
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 6: help cure the kid of the autism. And the kid

583
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 6: started throwing up some black stuff after drinking, and the

584
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,199
Speaker 6: grandmother said, well, we need to take the kid to

585
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 6: the hospital. And the victims said, oh no, Gina said,

586
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 6: this is what we were supposed to do. You know,

587
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 6: we're supposed to give the kid the banana, supposed to

588
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 6: give the kid, and it's going to cure the kid

589
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,719
Speaker 6: of the autism. You have a mother who's desperate to

590
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 6: have her child cured of a you know, of something,

591
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 6: and then you have this evil person who's just financially

592
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 6: exploiting them under the guise of offering them assistance, you know.

593
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 6: And you know, there was one really egregious case I

594
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 6: helped the FEDS with. It was a woman who was

595
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 6: a best selling author, but the name of Jude Devereux,

596
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 6: and she gave seventeen million dollars to a psychic over

597
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 6: the course of many years. And the psychic's name was

598
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 6: Rose Marx. And what happened was people saying to me, Bob,

599
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 6: you know how can one woman and give seventeen million dollars?

600
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 3: Come on? You know?

601
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 6: And I said, well, you know, you don't understand the

602
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 6: background in what someone goes through leading up to when

603
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,719
Speaker 6: they walk in that door of that psychic Paula. You know,

604
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 6: I hear that on the phone, like I hear directly

605
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 6: what's going on.

606
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 3: But in this case, I didn't hear directly from Jude.

607
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 6: But I was called in by the FEDS for the

608
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 6: strategy of the prosecution because they saw that I had

609
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 6: been successful with other cases and they were kind of

610
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,239
Speaker 6: floundering as to how to go about prosecuting it. They

611
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 6: were kind of looking at it from well, how do

612
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 6: we prove whether this person in psychic.

613
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 3: Or not in court?

614
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 6: And I'm like, whoa, whoa time out. You know you're

615
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 6: going off in the wrong direction. Pay no attention to

616
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 6: the man behind the curtain. This is not about proven

617
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 6: whether the person's psychic or not. This is about proving

618
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 6: whether they were provable lies in a person. One person

619
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 6: lied to another person in order to get their money.

620
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 3: Right.

621
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 6: So in this case, anyway, getting back to Jude, Jude Devereau,

622
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 6: she had a little she had eight miscarriages trying to

623
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 6: have a child, okay, I think it was eight. And

624
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 6: then after a series of miscarriages, she adopts a little boy, Sam,

625
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 6: and when Sam is eight years old, he dies in

626
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 6: a traffic tragic EPED accident.

627
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 3: Okay.

628
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 6: And so now you have a woman who had all

629
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 6: these miscarriacters, who adopt a little boy and now the

630
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 6: little boy dies.

631
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 3: She go in a panic.

632
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 6: She goes in to see Rosemarks on Central Park West

633
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 6: in New York, and Rose tells it as she sees

634
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 6: little Sam, and Sam's getting pulled into the basically getting

635
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 6: pulled into the flames of purgatory, and it's Sam. She

636
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 6: needs to help her, you know, get Sam, you know,

637
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 6: help Sam's soul and get him to where he needs

638
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 6: to be. And so you have a desperate mother whose

639
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 6: child just died, and you have this evil woman looking

640
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 6: at her and saying, oh, she's a best selling author.

641
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 6: She's loaded, you know, gonna end up you know, financially

642
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 6: exploiting her. Right. So we ended up getting Roles arrested

643
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 6: and then along with some family members that she got

644
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 6: sentenced to ten years. But there was a bunch of

645
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 6: victims and it was like twenty five million dollar case.

646
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 6: But you know, that was one of the biggest cases

647
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 6: as far as putting a psychic away that there was,

648
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 6: and I was glad that she got that kind of

649
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 6: sentence given you know, the way that she prayed upon

650
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 6: that poor woman child.

651
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 5: You know, horrible.

652
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 1: I mean, it is so common to be to have

653
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: a period of thinking magically. I mean there's literally Joan

654
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: Didion's book called My Year of Magical Thinking, after you've

655
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: experienced some kind.

656
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 4: Of loss or grief or like just We've talked.

657
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: About this a bunch, but like any kind of major

658
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 1: life transition, normally very you know, rational, skeptical minded people

659
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 1: like are going to always inevitably have a period of

660
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: desperation in their life or vulnerability, I should say, more

661
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 1: so than desperation where they just like they just want

662
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 1: someone to make it better.

663
00:27:58,200 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 4: We've all experienced that.

664
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 1: There's nothing I would love for you to speak to, like,

665
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: what are some of the things you have observed in

666
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: terms of the commonalities among the victims.

667
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, I just want.

668
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 6: To back up when something that you just said about

669
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 6: wanting to believe you know, I actually listened to some

670
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 6: of your songs, Okay, and you have a song in

671
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 6: which you say I don't know if it's real, but

672
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 6: I want it to be.

673
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, there's the magic. You have a lyrics.

674
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 1: I can't let me listen to that, thank you.

675
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 3: But the thing is, I listened to your songs, okay,

676
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 3: and in your songs I feel like a kindred spirit

677
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 3: because of the fact that a lot of the messages

678
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 3: that you have in your lyrics directly relate to what

679
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 3: I do. Okay, and that that lyric there, I.

680
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 4: Actually picked up on that, okay, So.

681
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 3: It really hit me. I don't know if it's real,

682
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 3: but I want it to be.

683
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 6: And the thing is, one day I was interviewing a husband,

684
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 6: not interviewing, but he called me. It was a husband

685
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 6: of a psychic, and I said to them, what is

686
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 6: it that you know makes these women, these psychics so successful?

687
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,959
Speaker 3: I mean, you'll life? Does it for a living? You know?

688
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 3: Is scamming people? What is it?

689
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 6: He says, Bob, don't you understand that these people want

690
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 6: to believe in the magic, they want to believe it's real,

691
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 6: they want to believe it's true, you know, So that

692
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 6: that is the main point, and that the victims, the

693
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 6: commonality is that they go in there and they're experiencing

694
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 6: something in their life. Their husband left them, their wife

695
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 6: left them, their boyfriend left them, their girlfriend left them,

696
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 6: they were just diagnosed with cancer, they just lost their job, okay, love, money,

697
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 6: health issues, meeting family, and then they go in and

698
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 6: then the circle claims like it does the cod reading

699
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 6: picks up on.

700
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 3: It, he's in on it, and then moves in.

701
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 6: And then financially exploits them, and they suspend their critical thinking. Okay,

702
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 6: And the reason they suspend their critical thinking is because

703
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 6: they want to believe that this person can do it.

704
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 6: And they're dealing with someone and just like in a cult,

705
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 6: this person is coming.

706
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 3: From a position of I have this supern natural ability.

707
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 3: I have this power that you don't have that nobody

708
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 3: else has. So they come, you're dealing with someone that's

709
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 3: purporting to have something you know that nobody else has.

710
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 3: And then what that person does is the self proclaims

711
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 3: that it creates a sense of dependency in the victim.

712
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 3: So they size the person up.

713
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 6: They find out what it is that's bothering them, and

714
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 6: then they create that sense of dependency and I'm the

715
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 6: one that can help you, and only I can help you.

716
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 6: They use that position of authority of purported authority, right,

717
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 6: and then they they're very personable. They start to and

718
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 6: one of the things they do is they take up

719
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 6: the person's time. They get them to start doing rituals.

720
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 6: If I when I go through to the case and

721
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,239
Speaker 6: I start building a case, I say, give me your

722
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 6: text messages, give me your your a phone records, give

723
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 6: me your financial statements, your bank records. I see that

724
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 6: once they start talking to the psychic, they're texting them

725
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 6: fifty sixty times a day.

726
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 3: You know.

727
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 6: They're asking them about everything. Should I buy this at

728
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 6: the store? Should I buy this? Should I eat this tonight?

729
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 3: Is it okay? If I eat steak? Is it okay?

730
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 3: If they eat meat?

731
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 6: You know, what happens is they become so entrenched in

732
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 6: the person's life, in the victim's life, that the victim

733
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 6: starts to depend on them for almost every decision that

734
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 6: they're making. I mean, should I call my boyfriend now?

735
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 6: Should I text him now? Is it okay if I

736
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 6: call him now?

737
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 3: You know?

738
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 6: And then what the psychic does is the psychic is

739
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 6: a whole thing. It's called undue influence, all right, And

740
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 6: so it's a whole thing of psychological manipulation, and it's

741
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 6: undue influence. So you have there's a woman by the

742
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 6: name of Margaret Singer who was a clinical psychologist out

743
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 6: in Berkeley at one time, and she now she's passed away,

744
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 6: but she was an expert in the field of undue influence,

745
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 6: and she wrote a book about cults. And I noticed

746
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 6: in her book that she talked about a lot of these,

747
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 6: you know, like a model, a cult model for things

748
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 6: that these cult leaders did, and I found that they

749
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 6: corresponded with what the psychics did. So once again, isolate

750
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 6: the victim.

751
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 3: From friends and family, create a sense of dependency, create

752
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 3: a siege mentality. Everybody else is out to get us.

753
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 6: You know, if somebody comes up to you, in other words,

754
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 6: they've got the person's worn to secrecy, so the person

755
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 6: isn't going to tell anybody about the work. But what

756
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 6: if somebody picks up that they're acting differently and confronts

757
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 6: them about it. So then they have to have something

758
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 6: to make sure that that doesn't thwart the scam. So

759
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 6: the person says, well, you know, my husband's saying that

760
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 6: something's not right. Oh, that's because the devil is working

761
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 6: through him to try to stop us. From finishing our work.

762
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 6: Everybody else out to be evil. So just like a

763
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 6: cult leader will say, everybody outside the cult is working against.

764
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 4: Us expressing people right, and you only.

765
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 6: Can trust us and only us. You know, it is

766
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 6: within the group, and don't let anybody else inter fear.

767
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 3: I mean umor Sorry.

768
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 6: One guy hired me and he's telling me that he's

769
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 6: doing the case. You know, I'm putting the case together,

770
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 6: and he says to me, Bob, you know, the psychic

771
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 6: said to me one time in the middle of the scam,

772
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 6: this guy happened to give nine hundred thousand to a

773
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 6: psychic one hundred and twenty six thousand. I ended up

774
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 6: getting the psychic arrested, help him get arrested, and he

775
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 6: got back nine hundred thousand, so it was good.

776
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 3: It was successful case.

777
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 6: But he said to me during the scam, the psychic

778
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 6: said to him, listen, if anybody comes up to you

779
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 6: and tries to talk to you out of what we're doing,

780
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 6: or says something to you, I want to know right away,

781
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 6: and especially if someone comes up to you by the name.

782
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 3: Of Bob, you need to come to me right away.

783
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 3: He says, Bob, she was telling me about you. Before

784
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 3: I haven't mentioned.

785
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 4: Oh oh my god.

786
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 3: They know me from post to post.

787
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 4: You know, that's amazing. I want them to know my name.

788
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 4: I know one people about Lola.

789
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 5: She's coming for you.

790
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 2: The cult leaders we talk about a lot of times,

791
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 2: narcissistic personality disorders. Of course, it's fascinating to me that

792
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,959
Speaker 2: psychics have the ability. I don't know exactly what it is,

793
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: but to be so confident. I've had psychics tell me like,

794
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 2: you are going to be asked to dinner by this

795
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 2: specific person tomorrow, and it's like, that's so bold.

796
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 5: Number one, I'm not And number two.

797
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 2: How do you just both like it's what is that

798
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 2: is that narcissists?

799
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 3: If you throw enough stuff at the wall, something's gonna

800
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 3: stay right.

801
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:16,760
Speaker 6: Yeah.

802
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 3: And then and when the person is looking, I don't

803
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 3: know if it's real, but I want it to be right.

804
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 6: We go back to that. If the person is desperate

805
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 6: for the answers, they're seeking answers, they'll disregard the things

806
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 6: that don't come true, and if one thing happens to

807
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 6: come true, they'll they'll jump all over that because they

808
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 6: want to believe in it's so.

809
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: Bad and yes, exactly, it's the confirmation bias. You're going

810
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: to filter out the stuff that didn't come true. This

811
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: is just I mean, I see this, you see this

812
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: with astrology. Like not to hate on people who are

813
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: into astrology.

814
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 3: I love.

815
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't I love all of it.

816
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I know many of our listeners are

817
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: probably into astrology. But for me personally, as an astrologery

818
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: astrology skeptic, I'm like, there are so many vague things

819
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: that you can pick out the thing that feels right

820
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: and just say nor all the rest of it and

821
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: see it as evidence that totally it is an accurate

822
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: horoscope for you, right, Like, we're constantly that's just how

823
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 1: our brains work. We filter to see what we want

824
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: to see depending on where we're at in that moment.

825
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 6: Well, one of the things, one of the things that's

826
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 6: very important to mention is that the victims are often

827
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 6: very intelligent people.

828
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 4: I find a victims person.

829
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean I've.

830
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 6: Got clients that lawyers, doctors, CEOs of companies are a

831
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 6: rocket scientist, college professor.

832
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 3: You know, I had a guy called me up one day.

833
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 6: He's like, Bob, you know, listen, you know, I'm out

834
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 6: three hundred and fifty thousand dollars and you know this

835
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 6: is what happened to me. And I said, okay, you know,

836
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 6: I'll help you build a case. It sounds like you

837
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 6: have a good case, Bob, because you know you're not

838
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 6: a very good listener, are you. And I said, well,

839
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 6: I don't know, you know, he said, of got like

840
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 6: mad at me. And I'm like, well, what are you

841
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 6: talking about? Like I listened to what you just said.

842
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 6: You have a good case. He goes, Bob, you really

843
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 6: are not a good listener. I said, well, well what

844
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 6: am I missing here? He goes, Bob, I'm a college professor.

845
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 6: Didn't you hear that? He goes, I'm not calling you

846
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 6: to bring a case against this psychic. He goes, I'm

847
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 6: calling you just to talk to you. He goes, I

848
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:00,919
Speaker 6: would never bring a case. Is if my name ever

849
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 6: came out, I would be the laughing stock of my university.

850
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 6: I could never go before that faculty again, sit in

851
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 6: the faculty lounge. I could never stand in front of

852
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 6: a group of students again if my name ever came out.

853
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 6: So one of the big things that these self proclaimed

854
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 6: psychics have working for them is that people are often

855
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 6: very embarrassed or ashamed at having fallen victim for it.

856
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 6: Once they hit rock bottom, okay, then they you know,

857
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 6: then they realize I've been scammed. And then they're like,

858
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 6: I'm this smart person and I got scammed by someone

859
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 6: who usually has maybe like less than a fifth grade education.

860
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 6: Like I can never tell anybody, right, So that's one

861
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 6: of the things. Yeah, and I have to try to

862
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 6: help them understand how this could happen to anybody. And

863
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 6: then it wasn't a matter of intelligence, I explained to them.

864
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 6: It's not like if your IQ is over one thirty five,

865
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 6: you're immune.

866
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 3: To a con artist. Okay, what it is. It's a

867
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 3: matter of vulnerability, and you're not a robot. I tell them,

868
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 3: you're not a robot, you know.

869
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 6: And it's not like you're going through your life and

870
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 6: everything is logical and rational. It's like things come up.

871
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 6: You know, you lose your job, that affects you. You

872
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 6: get diagnose, you walk out of the doctor's office he

873
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:06,720
Speaker 6: told you you have cancer.

874
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,280
Speaker 3: That affects you. You know, you find out your boyfriend

875
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 3: or governor's cheating on you. You know, it throws your

876
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 3: world into into into a you know, into a mess.

877
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 3: You know, So what happens is is that all of

878
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 3: us when things happen like that, it's very hard to

879
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 3: operate an optimal you know, critical thinking level. You know

880
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 3: the hold it stelf to that to.

881
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 6: Try to hold yourself like and say, well, I should

882
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 6: always be you know, rational and logical.

883
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 3: You're not missed the spot, you know what I'm saying.

884
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 6: Like, and you give up something too when you do that.

885
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 6: When you like, if you walked around and you didn't

886
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 6: trust anybody and you didn't it, you know, like and

887
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 6: you couldn't be like a good, healthy, loving person. You know,

888
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 6: I can to that one of the things as a cop.

889
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 6: When I was a cop in the academy, they teach

890
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,399
Speaker 6: you don't trust anybody. You know, it's us against them,

891
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 6: you know, keep your distance when you talk to people,

892
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 6: make sure not close enough to strike you. You know

893
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 6: a lot of cops go on to become alcoholics and

894
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,359
Speaker 6: have a high divorce rate and stuff like that. You're

895
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 6: giving up a certain part of yourself by walking around

896
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 6: distrusting everybody.

897
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:12,879
Speaker 1: I think that's that's a really great point we talk

898
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,439
Speaker 1: because we talk a lot about skepticism about other people

899
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 1: on the show, and like, don't you know don't trust

900
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,439
Speaker 1: anyone or whatever, but we have to trust each other.

901
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just not a way to live to just

902
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: be constantly being hyper vigilant about whether somebody you know, like,

903
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: you do what you can. You set boundaries for yourself,

904
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: you try to protect yourself as best you can. But ultimately,

905
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: like we have to live our lives and like be

906
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: human and connect with others. And I'll just go one

907
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: step further and say, at the same time, I mean,

908
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: we do live in this metaphysical universe of quantum physics

909
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: and shit, and sometimes magical stuff happens.

910
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 2: I'm sorry it does. So we don't know every we

911
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 2: don't exactly, we don't so you know, there are there

912
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 2: are little quantum quitting sometimes that it's like cool, I

913
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 2: don't know what that was. And when somebody prays upon that,

914
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 2: it's so cruel.

915
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,479
Speaker 6: It is because it takes away that innocence. It takes

916
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,439
Speaker 6: away more than just taken away someone's finances. It takes

917
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 6: away they're in you know, it makes them unable to

918
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 6: trust people moving forward. And that's when you take that

919
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 6: away from somebody, You've taken.

920
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 3: A lot away from them. And I tamity, Yeah.

921
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: I just want to speak to the shame. Also, like

922
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: we actually have had some people in our DMS telling

923
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 1: us how they were scammed by a psychic and they

924
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: were really ashamed about it and they didn't want to

925
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 1: tell anyone, And I just want to, like, I would

926
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: just love to be able to relieve everyone of that shame.

927
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: I feel like there's such a cultural thing in our

928
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,959
Speaker 1: society where we think that rationality is the only way

929
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: and if we've ever experienced any emotion, or if we've

930
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 1: ever been vulnerable in any way, that makes us flawed

931
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 1: in some way. That's just not No human being. I

932
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: don't care if sorry Jordan Peterson, sorry Sam Harris, no

933
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 1: human being is immune to emotion and there's nothing to

934
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: be ashamed of if you, if you like, happen to

935
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: have xp that at some point and someone took advantage

936
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: of that.

937
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:03,879
Speaker 3: That's and I say to people.

938
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 6: When people call me, I say to them, the first

939
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 6: thing I want you to do is be kind to yourself.

940
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 3: Give yourself a break.

941
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 6: Okay, before I even start this case, that's what I

942
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 6: need for you to do.

943
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 3: I need you to be kind to yourself and give

944
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 3: yourself a break.

945
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 6: Because you know another thing that I'm going to get

946
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 6: into here that the self proclaimed psychics do, which is

947
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 6: very cruel, is people open up to these people because

948
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 6: they think they're talking to this anonymous person who you

949
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 6: know is caring about them and as their whole you know,

950
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 6: self interest at heart, you know, loves them and wants

951
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 6: to take care of them, and they deal with God's work,

952
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 6: and you know, their whole purpose is to help this

953
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 6: person get through whatever they're getting through. So they're so

954
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 6: good at getting people to believe that. But then what

955
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 6: happens is the person opens up to the psychic and

956
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 6: starts telling the psychic things that they haven't told anybody else.

957
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 3: So I have people that I move forward.

958
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 6: With a case and the next thing, you know, the

959
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 6: person saying, Bob, if I bring this case against the psychic,

960
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,399
Speaker 6: you know I told her x.

961
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 5: Y was the scientology.

962
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 4: They've got your secret.

963
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 3: You think she could bring that up? And you know,

964
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 3: is that going to Now?

965
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 6: I say, listen, I can't say what you told the

966
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 6: psychic is not going to come up. But the thing

967
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 6: is that I've never seen it come up, be honest

968
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 6: with you. Once I've gotten them arrested, they just hire

969
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 6: a lawyer and they just want to get out from

970
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 6: under the charger. There's no purpose behind bringing something up personal,

971
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 6: you know that. But the people that call me, I mean,

972
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 6: there's a lot of things that people say. One of

973
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 6: them that I find a lot of the victims are

974
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,280
Speaker 6: struggling with their sexual identity. Maybe they haven't told anybody,

975
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 6: you know, and they're struggling with that, and they tell

976
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,399
Speaker 6: the psychic, and then the psychic holds that over their

977
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 6: head and uses that against them to exploit them. Yes,

978
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 6: and then when the exactly and then when the person

979
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 6: finally hits rock Bontham and says, wait, you know something.

980
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,760
Speaker 3: The whole time you were scamming me, And then.

981
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 6: The psychic says, remember you told me you were a

982
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 6: lesbian member, You told me you would gay. Well, guess what,

983
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 6: the whole world's going to find that out now because

984
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 6: you want to go and bring me to court. Well,

985
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 6: guess what Now all your secrets are coming out. And

986
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 6: to emotionally extort somebody under that, it's just terrible. It

987
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 6: is just so awful. But like I had one case

988
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 6: where this is just an in case. It was an

989
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 6: Asian woman and she hires me. I build a case.

990
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 6: I spent six months putting this thing together. And then

991
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 6: she says to me, one day before we're supposed to

992
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 6: go to a police she's like shaken. We're in a

993
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 6: Starbucks and I still remember her hands were shaken, and

994
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 6: I said, wait a second, what didn't you tell me?

995
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 6: You know, because you're way too nervous and well, one

996
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 6: day from going to police, what is it? Well, you know,

997
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 6: I had an affair on my husband and I never

998
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 6: told him, and I didn't tell you about it, but

999
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 6: I told the psychic that one I'm worried that the

1000
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 6: psychic will bring that up.

1001
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,439
Speaker 3: That is woman without fifty thousand dollars. I said, listen,

1002
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:49,919
Speaker 3: all right, it's fifty thousand dollars.

1003
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 6: If that's a secret you want to keep, and you'll

1004
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 6: worry the psychic, we'll bring it up. Who am I

1005
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 6: to say whether you should walk away? I don't think

1006
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 6: it'll ever come up. And but be honest, it has

1007
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 6: nothing to do with the case. So she says to me, well,

1008
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 6: you know, it kind of has something to do with

1009
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 6: the case, and I'm like, well, well, what does it

1010
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 6: have to do with the case. I mean, you know,

1011
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 6: you gave the money to a psychic. It's like you're

1012
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,879
Speaker 6: going to remove a curse. And the psych says, you're

1013
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 6: going to give your money back or whatever. So she says, well,

1014
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 6: the thing is, Bob, my firstborn child is actually my lover's.

1015
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 3: Not my husband's.

1016
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 6: Oh now I'm like, well that's a bigger secret than

1017
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 6: just I had an affair. Now your firstborn child is

1018
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 6: your lovers and not your husbands. Now you know what

1019
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 6: if it's me, I mean, I can't tell you what

1020
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 6: to do with for the fifty thousand, I'll probably walk

1021
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 6: away on the case, you know, I said, but I

1022
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:36,839
Speaker 6: have to in all honesty, I have to tell you

1023
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,760
Speaker 6: that it still has nothing to do with the actual case.

1024
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 6: And then she says, yeah, but it kind of does.

1025
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 6: And at that point I was like, all right, you know,

1026
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 6: just might as well hit me over the head with it.

1027
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 3: What what didn't you tell me? I mean, what's left here?

1028
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 3: You know? And she says, well, Bob, the thing is.

1029
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 3: You know I told you I was giving the psychic

1030
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 3: the money to remove the curse.

1031
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 6: And I said yeah, and she goes, well, that really

1032
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 6: wasn't why I was giving the psychic the money. And

1033
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,399
Speaker 6: I said, well, well then what will and she goes, well, Bob,

1034
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 6: the psychic told me she can make the baby coming

1035
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 6: out looking more elect my husband.

1036
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 3: Than my lover.

1037
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 5: Oh my god.

1038
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,240
Speaker 6: At that point, I'm like, we don't have a case

1039
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 6: because I can't lie. And ye, why you gave the money,

1040
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 6: you know, But this is what I'm talking about. You

1041
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 6: have people walking into these psychics and relying on someone

1042
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 6: that puts up a neon sign. You know, one of

1043
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 6: the things I would tell people that are listening is

1044
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 6: that don't put all your faith and trust and hope

1045
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,919
Speaker 6: in somebody that is self proclaimed.

1046
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:31,399
Speaker 3: Okay, somebody that.

1047
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 6: Just slaps up a neon sign and claims to have

1048
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 6: some ability. You know, you don't go to a doctor

1049
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,720
Speaker 6: without looking to see if he went to medical school.

1050
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 6: You don't go to see a lawyer and hire a

1051
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 6: lawyer unless you see that he's got a law degree.

1052
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 6: So why are you walking in? And I'm not coming

1053
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 6: down on people. I understand why. It's because it's an

1054
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 6: anonymous person who's easy to go to and who is

1055
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 6: a con artist and is a professional, is very good

1056
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 6: at what they.

1057
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, and they have a twenty dollars sign on the window.

1058
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 4: Or like it's just twenty dollars less.

1059
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I get it. I get it.

1060
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 6: Well, they think it's harmless, but they got to understand

1061
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 6: that once when you see that little quint shop with

1062
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 6: the neon sign, it often hides a sinister.

1063
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 1: Side, even if they're validated by your friends, though, because

1064
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: I feel like that is a common thing that happens

1065
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,879
Speaker 1: with coliars and psychics and all of them. Like your

1066
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:22,439
Speaker 1: friends may be able to maybe telling you that they're

1067
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 1: legit and that they predicted what, but that's also not

1068
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: necessarily good enough indicator.

1069
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 3: I have so many cases of young women that go

1070
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 3: in with a friend, yeah, both psychic, you know. Yeah.

1071
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 6: And I actually have a case right now with two

1072
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 6: women that went in and one realized she scammed and

1073
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 6: the others still seeing the psychic scammed.

1074
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 3: And I'm building a case.

1075
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 6: And the one client is not telling a friend that

1076
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 6: she's building the case because I told you can't tell

1077
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 6: it because she's still on the hook. Control's gonna She's

1078
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 6: gonna spill the beans.

1079
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,760
Speaker 5: Do these people like keep in contact with you forever

1080
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 5: after this? Are you like their news?

1081
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 3: You know?

1082
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 6: It's very rewarding. Yeah, you know, my clients become I

1083
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 6: flung friends. Now I found, you know, one woman just

1084
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 6: to give you how rewarding it is. One woman called

1085
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 6: me and I had a case and was out in California,

1086
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 6: and I helped to get back six hundred and fifty

1087
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 6: eight thousand dollars. And in that particular case, the woman

1088
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 6: was going through a divorce. She was an Indian woman

1089
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 6: and her husband was from Silicon Valley and was a

1090
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 6: very domineering type CEO type okay, and he was telling

1091
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 6: her that he was going to divorce her and take

1092
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 6: soul custody at a child.

1093
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 3: And she had a daughter, and it was just you know.

1094
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 6: She had one daughter and she was petrified that she

1095
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 6: was going to lose custody of the daughter to the husband.

1096
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 6: So the self proclaimed psychic, two days before she's supposed

1097
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 6: to go to a court hearing, to see what's going

1098
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 6: to go on, she calls up a psychic that she

1099
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 6: calls up seas online and then start us talking to

1100
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 6: a psychic, and the psychic is like, oh, well, you know,

1101
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 6: I'm going to make sure that you don't lose custody

1102
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:53,439
Speaker 6: at a child.

1103
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what I'm here for.

1104
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,439
Speaker 6: You know, no lawyer is going to tell someone they're

1105
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 6: gonna it's one hundred percent guarantee. But these claim psychics,

1106
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 6: they will tell you anything you want to hear to

1107
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 6: give you that.

1108
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 3: False hope, to get you on the hook, you know.

1109
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 6: So then the woman goes to the hearing and it

1110
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 6: like thing gets postponed or like she know she didn't

1111
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 6: lose custody right away. Of course, what does the psychic do.

1112
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 6: She takes advantage of that. That's because of the work

1113
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 6: that I did for you the last two days. That's

1114
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 6: why you didn't lose custody today.

1115
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 3: You know.

1116
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 6: So what the self for clain psychics will offer do

1117
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 6: They exacerbate the victims' existing fears, and then they sometimes

1118
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 6: introduce new fears. And they take credit for good things

1119
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 6: that happen in a person's life and then blame the

1120
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 6: evil on bad things. The person's in an autowaxent, Oh,

1121
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 6: that's because of the evil. See, it's looking to attack you.

1122
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 6: It has nothing to do. The person was in an autowax.

1123
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 6: But the boyfriend calls and texts you. You see, he

1124
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 6: texted you because that's the work I'm doing. That's why

1125
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 6: he called you a text you you know. But in

1126
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 6: any event, this woman I built the case for her,

1127
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 6: and what happened in this case, it was very egregious

1128
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 6: in that the psychic told her it went off for

1129
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 6: twelve years, like twelve years, and it was six hundred

1130
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 6: and fifty eight thousand dollars. And at one point, the

1131
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 6: psychic said, you are going to lose custody of the

1132
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 6: child if you don't continue working with me and giving

1133
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 6: me money to put into the work. And your husband

1134
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 6: is going to rape your daughter. So now you're telling

1135
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 6: this woman that she's going to lose custody of her

1136
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,839
Speaker 6: only daughter and that her husband is going to rape.

1137
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 3: The daughter was petrified. She was petrified.

1138
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 6: Anyway, I ended up putting the case together, getting the

1139
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 6: psychic arrested. Psychic ends up pleading guilty felony, pays back

1140
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 6: it's probation, but pays back the whole amount. One day,

1141
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 6: a few years later, you know, many years later, I

1142
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 6: get a call.

1143
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 3: I'm just sitting around.

1144
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 6: I get a call and it's this woman and she

1145
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 6: says to me, hey, Bob, you know, it's me and

1146
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 6: my daughter, and she says, I want to set you know,

1147
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,360
Speaker 6: we figured we want to give you a call. And

1148
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 6: I said, oh, that's nicees. You know, I'm glad you

1149
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 6: keep in touch and everything. She goes, Well, the reason

1150
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 6: that we're calling, she says, is because I don't know

1151
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 6: if you know what we're doing right now.

1152
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 3: I said, well, no, she says, Well, we're on a trip.

1153
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,439
Speaker 6: She goes, We're going to the Midwest and my daughter

1154
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 6: is going to be entering medical school.

1155
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 3: She says, and you know something, had you not helped

1156
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 3: us my daughter, we wouldn't be making a trip to that. Yeah.

1157
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:05,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's amazing.

1158
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 3: No.

1159
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 6: So when you affect people's lives like that, you know, finances,

1160
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 6: you know, comes into play a lot in people's lives.

1161
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 6: It sometimes changes the direction of what people can and

1162
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 6: can't do, you know, And with that in mind, you know,

1163
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 6: it's you know, I get a little emotional because it's

1164
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,919
Speaker 6: somewhat of a bird and sometimes I feel a big

1165
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,439
Speaker 6: responsibility to my clients and to the people that call

1166
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 6: me kind of a heavyweight sometimes because I realize the

1167
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 6: emotional abuse that they're under. A woman called me one

1168
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 6: day and she says it, Bob, I gave ninety thousand

1169
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 6: dollars to a psychic. You know, over the course of

1170
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 6: the last three months. I live in Queens, New York,

1171
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 6: and you know, I don't know what I'm going to do.

1172
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 6: And I said, ma'am, you know, I'll try to help you.

1173
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 6: She goes, Listen, my husband and I we don't come

1174
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 6: from much, and we worked hard. We slaved our whole

1175
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 6: lives to make this money to send our daughter to college,

1176
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 6: she says, And now our daughter's going to be under college.

1177
00:49:58,080 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 6: And now how am I going to tell my husband

1178
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 6: and daughter that I gave it all away in three

1179
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 6: months and we can't send her to college?

1180
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 2: You know?

1181
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 6: And so I said to her, man, you know, well,

1182
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 6: I've been very successful. You know, I helped people get

1183
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 6: back millions of dollars. You know, I can't promise you,

1184
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 6: but I you know, I think you have a good case,

1185
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 6: and I'll help you build your case here, you know.

1186
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 3: And she's like, Bob, you don't understand. And I said, well, no,

1187
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 3: I do.

1188
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 6: You know.

1189
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 3: I've been doing this for a long time. She you

1190
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 3: don't understand, Bob, You just don't understand it. She started, like,

1191
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:25,720
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, she got quiet.

1192
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 6: She started huffing and puffing, and I said, like, you know,

1193
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 6: like started crying. And I said, well, you know what,

1194
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 6: what don't I understand? She says, Bob, MoMA, my at

1195
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 6: lunch break right now, she says, And I'm standing on

1196
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 6: the eighth floor and I'm standing on the ledge, and

1197
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 6: I think I should just take that one step and.

1198
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 3: End it all.

1199
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:45,399
Speaker 6: She goes because I can't go home and face them.

1200
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 6: And I had to talk her off the ledge, you know.

1201
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 1: So you know, it's like, okay, I need I need

1202
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: to know how to end yeah.

1203
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, ended up, you know, Okay, she didn't end up

1204
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 3: hiring me and going forward the case. And I often

1205
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 3: wonder to this day what happened with her.

1206
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 6: And you know, that's someone that I fell out of

1207
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 6: touch with, but she didn't want to move forward, and

1208
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 6: I don't know why. But but I did talk her

1209
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 6: off the ledge, and I didn't meet with her after that,

1210
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 6: and uh, and I did set her down and explain

1211
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 6: to her not to be too hard on herself and

1212
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 6: you know, and that she needed to give ourselves a

1213
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 6: break and everything. And but it was just at that moment,

1214
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,800
Speaker 6: you know, being on the phone with somebody and realizing

1215
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 6: you have that life in your hands and it's all

1216
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 6: because of what this psychic did to them.

1217
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 3: It's just it's, uh, it's tough, you know.

1218
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,280
Speaker 2: It's such a good like movie or novel or something

1219
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 2: like these people are looking for something and then they're

1220
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 2: not getting it from the person who technically they think

1221
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 2: they should. It's this like cop ex cop who's there.

1222
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 2: They're like emotional savior. So it's so ubi.

1223
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 1: It has a lot of responsibility. Yeah, there are a

1224
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: lot of we talked. We've talked many times about how

1225
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: people can kind of cult hop and go from one

1226
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,800
Speaker 1: person like who you know, kind of destroyed their life

1227
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: to another person who they think it's going to fix it.

1228
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 1: And like what a delicate position to be in to

1229
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: be the person they're looking to to Like, it's.

1230
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:07,280
Speaker 3: A big responsibility.

1231
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:10,839
Speaker 6: Yeah, And and I I kind of once the person

1232
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 6: hits rock bottom, I replaced the psychic, like I like

1233
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 6: you're talking about, like now they start texting me a

1234
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 6: couple of times a day, you know, and now they're

1235
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 6: calling me all day and texting me all day, and

1236
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 6: like you know that I I kind of step in

1237
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 6: and fill that void, you know. And it is a

1238
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 6: it's a big responsibility, and I, you know, I take

1239
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 6: it as such, and I try to treat them. But

1240
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 6: you know, even as a cop, when I was a cop,

1241
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 6: I always treated people the way that I would treat

1242
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 6: a member of my own family.

1243
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 3: You know.

1244
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,720
Speaker 6: I was always told, you know, if someone walks into

1245
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 6: the station, you know, treat them. What if this was

1246
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,240
Speaker 6: my mother making this for What if there's my sister,

1247
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 6: what if there's my brother, my father? And unfortunately a

1248
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 6: lot of guys that I worked with, I didn't find

1249
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 6: that to be the case. That they were looking to

1250
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 6: do as the civil service mentality and looking to do

1251
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 6: the least as possible.

1252
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,280
Speaker 3: And I had a bed a very.

1253
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 6: Bad experience as a cop most of the people I

1254
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 6: worked with, because I didn't feel that they gave people a.

1255
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 3: Fair shape in that regard, and it really bothered me.

1256
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:10,359
Speaker 6: And what happened is is that when I got into

1257
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 6: this whole field of psychics, it really became to the forefront.

1258
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 6: It came to the forefront in that nobody wanted to

1259
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 6: help these victims because of the fact that everybody says they,

1260
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 6: you know, police, the prosecutors, well they willingly gave them money,

1261
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 6: you know, And they looked down the police and the prosecutors,

1262
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,879
Speaker 6: the law enforcement, the powers that be, they look down

1263
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:34,279
Speaker 6: on these victims and they judge them. And that is

1264
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,760
Speaker 6: so terrible. And I say, my clients say to me, Bob,

1265
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 6: you know when we came to you, whether we get

1266
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 6: our money back or not, I want to tell you

1267
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:43,919
Speaker 6: something about what you did more for me than anyone else.

1268
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 6: Is you didn't judge me. Okay, what I called you.

1269
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 6: You stayed on the phone with me, You talked to

1270
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 6: me for a couple of hours. You explained to me,

1271
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 6: helped me better understand how I got into this situation.

1272
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 6: So I don't feel so bad about as bad about myself,

1273
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 6: and you actually care about me. And unlike the psychic,

1274
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 6: well unlike the police or the prosecutor, is I walked in.

1275
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 3: How can you be so stupid? Like when I tried

1276
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 3: to file a report, I'm like, did you go file

1277
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 3: a report? Ye had? A cop laughed at me.

1278
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:11,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what happened to my mom.

1279
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: They were like, you willingly gave this person or like

1280
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: profit or whatever, you willingly gave him your money.

1281
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 4: Like, we don't do anything about that.

1282
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 1: It's no he related her and lied to her, and

1283
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 1: the money was given under a false pretense and the

1284
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 1: you know whatever.

1285
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, well yeah, and look.

1286
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 3: You have it down, you know, because you've lived it.

1287
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, all right, well stay tuned next week for

1288
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: part two. My friends, it's just as good as part one.

1289
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 1: I gotta say, really really endears me to someone when

1290
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 1: they like my music but also like have really specific

1291
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 1: things to say about it that actually understand what I

1292
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: was writing about.

1293
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 5: Oh my god, it's good.

1294
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 4: I love it, real good.

1295
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:53,359
Speaker 5: It's some good.

1296
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 1: I love when it comes from like a private detective.

1297
00:54:58,000 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 5: Yeah and unsuspect.

1298
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,800
Speaker 4: Sorry old mall, but like a grown ass man. You

1299
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 4: know that's cool.

1300
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 5: I like it.

1301
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 4: He has really good taste.

1302
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:06,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think so.

1303
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 1: Okay, Well come back next week, you guys. Next week

1304
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: will be Christmas week, so whatever. That's not what I

1305
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: meant to say. I was thinking this would be the

1306
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 1: one we would say Merry Christmas. But we're gonna say

1307
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 1: it next week. Fuck it, Yeah, we're gonna say it

1308
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:18,360
Speaker 1: next week.

1309
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 5: It's fine.

1310
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 2: Remember to have a great week, Remember to check back

1311
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 2: in with us, tell us any culty shit that's happening,

1312
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 2: and remember to follow your gut, watch over a.

1313
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 7: Flags, and never ever trust me.

1314
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 4: Oh bye,