Speaker 1: Whenever I'm dressed cool, my parents put up a fight.
Speaker 1: Ah if I'm hot, shut, mom will come my hair
Speaker 1: at night.
Speaker 2: The implications of that song that if Gaga was like
Speaker 2: acted out, her mom would come into her room at
Speaker 2: night and cut her hair off. She's sheen ami.
Speaker 1: No ma, not name yo yo yo, what is your
Speaker 1: childhood trauma?
Speaker 3: I am chok.
Speaker 2: Yo.
Speaker 1: Life's going down before.
Speaker 2: Round. Welcome to Lake a Virgin, the show where we
Speaker 2: give yesterday's pop culture Todays takes armas DomU and I'm
Speaker 2: friend Toronto, and today we're talking about hair.
Speaker 1: Not to be confus with body or face hair.
Speaker 2: Although although I do think we'll probably talk about both
Speaker 2: body and facial hair, right right right, yes, so.
Speaker 1: My hair, my body hair.
Speaker 2: Hars an. I think an underrated Gaga song.
Speaker 1: Oh we can say they're gonna be like hair, just
Speaker 1: as a thing is very underrated.
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, actually, well, attention to hair, but I
Speaker 2: think even that being true, it's still underrated.
Speaker 1: Right right right. Maybe it's maybe there's a zance.
Speaker 2: Happening with it. I mean, no one, I hate to
Speaker 2: be a girl who references flea Bag, but there's that
Speaker 2: part in flea Bag where She hates to be one
Speaker 2: of those you know what I mean? She says, hair
Speaker 2: is everything. Hair is like we pretend that it isn't,
Speaker 2: but it's everything, right.
Speaker 1: The girl that got the horrible haircut, the sister that
Speaker 1: gets French, French, it's French. Have you ever gotten a
Speaker 1: horrible haircut?
Speaker 2: The answer is yes, girl, girl? What do you think?
Speaker 1: You and I have both experienced the trans cultural phenomenon
Speaker 1: of leaving a hair salon, looking at yourself in a
Speaker 1: reflective surface once and thinking should I kill myself?
Speaker 2: Well? No, okay, So for me, that moment usually comes
Speaker 2: three to five business days after the haircut. Like when
Speaker 2: I leave the salon, I'm almost always like, I love it,
Speaker 2: you know, looks great. This is what I wanted because
Speaker 2: I think I've made this social contract with the stylist
Speaker 2: to have that experience.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay.
Speaker 2: And then it's once I like wake up the next
Speaker 2: day and see myself or wash my hair for the
Speaker 2: first time and don't have a blowout anymore, or see
Speaker 2: the color in different light that I'm like I need
Speaker 2: to go run into oncoming trap. Yes, yes, No.
Speaker 1: For me, it's completely immediate. It's the second I walk
Speaker 1: outside and like, literally, look at my reflection in the
Speaker 1: next door window, like it is and I actually, I
Speaker 1: mean I've obviously I had a lot of suicidal haircuts,
Speaker 1: but like the most recent one was actually I experienced
Speaker 1: it kind of with you we're in. I had I
Speaker 1: had a kind of more of a mullet shape for
Speaker 1: a very long time, and it was pretty long, and
Speaker 1: I was like, it's the end of the mullet. I
Speaker 1: don't want it anymore, but I still want to keep
Speaker 1: my hair long, So like, what do we do from here?
Speaker 1: And we did the social contract your hairstylists, you know,
Speaker 1: good take full rain, like a little creative control. And
Speaker 1: then I walked out of this haircut looking like motherfucking
Speaker 1: Lord far Quad and I was like, I am gonna yeah.
Speaker 1: I was just like I was. I was devastated. But
Speaker 1: the thing is, she was right. She was right the
Speaker 1: whole time, and it's something she does a lot of
Speaker 1: my friends. And what was she right about. She was
Speaker 1: right about the shape of my hair. She was right
Speaker 1: about what my hair needed to be, and that this
Speaker 1: cut was a necessary means to an end. It's the
Speaker 1: most recent haircut I've gotten. It was like months ago,
Speaker 1: and it's now created the hair that I have today,
Speaker 1: which is fabu.
Speaker 2: That is something that does need to be spoken about.
Speaker 2: Is like, some haircuts are not about an immediate result.
Speaker 2: Some haircuts are transitional.
Speaker 1: And what Dakota Dakota also goes to the same hairstylist
Speaker 1: and what she said to me was sometimes gives you
Speaker 1: the haircut that you need, not the haircut that you want.
Speaker 2: Okay, that would it work for me?
Speaker 1: You're like fundamentally against that.
Speaker 2: No, I'm as No, I'm very open to having a
Speaker 2: conversation with my stylist. I found like two sides, the
Speaker 2: two sides of the spectrum don't work for me. I
Speaker 2: don't like going to a hairstylist where I'm like, this
Speaker 2: is what I want and they give me exactly that,
Speaker 2: because I'm not the person who does hair so those
Speaker 2: decisions should not be left one hundred percent up to
Speaker 2: I also don't want to go to a hairstylist who
Speaker 2: tells me what I need and doesn't listen to me.
Speaker 1: With like a hand on the hip, like honey, we need.
Speaker 2: To meet somewhere in the middle. I need to come.
Speaker 2: Which is this is why I like watching I actually
Speaker 2: was just watching one before I came here a hair
Speaker 2: consultation video on TikTok where it's like, let me tell
Speaker 2: you about kind of the look I'm going for, let
Speaker 2: me tell you about my hair texture, let me tell
Speaker 2: you how willing I am to style my hair, and
Speaker 2: then let me give you some reference images and then
Speaker 2: we'll figure out together what to create. Because I think, really,
Speaker 2: if I can give anyone advice, like sure, we all
Speaker 2: look at pictures of like celebrities or influencers or whatever
Speaker 2: and are like, I want that copy pasted onto my head.
Speaker 2: But that which it never works.
Speaker 1: Doesn't work because the image that you're referencing is like
Speaker 1: the most like wayfish fashion, like unclockable girl, or like
Speaker 1: well it's like the one of the most their face
Speaker 1: shape where it's like it just doesn't Their face shape
Speaker 1: is not your face shape, their complexion is not your complexion,
Speaker 1: their texture is not your text.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then also it's like, if you're looking at
Speaker 2: pictures of celebrities, you're looking at pictures of the most
Speaker 2: beautiful people in the world in the best lighting possible,
Speaker 2: like literally teams of people creating their image just so
Speaker 2: even just their face and hair. So I think it's
Speaker 2: good to look at photos and like figure out what
Speaker 2: you like about them without being too literal, Like I
Speaker 2: like this tone in the way it compliments her skin.
Speaker 2: I like the width of or the length of her bangs.
Speaker 2: I like, you know, like they're the layers they have
Speaker 2: in their hair. But not you just can't copy paste
Speaker 2: anyone else's hair onto.
Speaker 1: Yourself, no, unless you were awake, right unless you are
Speaker 1: are And even then it's you know, well, okay, you
Speaker 1: and I are actually weighing some decisions on future hair decisions.
Speaker 1: But like, before we get to that, I kind of
Speaker 1: want to dip into the hair of past. Oh baby,
Speaker 1: worst hair, worst hair face pre transistion, go.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: Mine was the silver I have.
Speaker 2: Your silver era is very iconic to me, specifically.
Speaker 1: It looked really good when it was like when it
Speaker 1: was like short, manicured, like I was kind of giving,
Speaker 1: like I had the kind of like fied eye bro fade,
Speaker 1: Like if I was white, it would have been like
Speaker 1: the neo Nazi kind of fade, but I'm not, so
Speaker 1: it didn't give them.
Speaker 2: The pictures are incredible and virgins. I definitely recommend you
Speaker 2: go really far back.
Speaker 1: Yeah I've actually archived.
Speaker 2: Okay, well I will supply them.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, yeah, but I also so once the
Speaker 1: hair grew out, it looked like this mane of silver hair.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't like emo girl. It wasn't glam, it
Speaker 1: wasn't it was just mangy, or was it. It was
Speaker 1: like it was like grayish, bluish, purplish yellow.
Speaker 2: We all know, we all know the vibe. But it's
Speaker 2: giving gay person in a crisis.
Speaker 1: Just as a quick aside, men must stop getting neo
Speaker 1: Nazi haircuts, as someone who used to be a man,
Speaker 1: and as someone who used to get them, stop getting
Speaker 1: like the blind barber fade like the kind of like.
Speaker 2: It's so like but you know, a high and tight
Speaker 2: it works.
Speaker 1: No, it doesn't.
Speaker 2: It works on some people.
Speaker 1: It doesn't work on white people. It just doesn't. It's
Speaker 1: it's it's it looks, it's boring. It's just it doesn't
Speaker 1: say anything about the person.
Speaker 2: But some people don't need their haircut to say anything
Speaker 2: about them. I don't. I could not imagine a world
Speaker 2: in which that is true, but it is true for people.
Speaker 1: They don't care.
Speaker 2: It was a time where you thought your hair told
Speaker 2: told something about the well, well, I want to answer
Speaker 2: your question about my worst haircuts, That's what I was asking. So,
Speaker 2: I mean, let me so, I think more so than you,
Speaker 2: I have been on a hair journey my entire life,
Speaker 2: night life. I've not only nightlife, but like when I
Speaker 2: was a teenager, and I know I've talked about this
Speaker 2: on the podcast before, probably like ages ago when we
Speaker 2: did our hot topic episode. Dyeing my hair was one
Speaker 2: of the first things I did as like an adolescent
Speaker 2: where I was like, this is about my individuality, you know,
Speaker 2: like I've been dyeing my hair since I was twelve thirteen.
Speaker 2: So my hair has been every color, and I do
Speaker 2: mean every color, like every natural color and every unnatural.
Speaker 1: Color, blonde, blonde.
Speaker 2: Brown, black, green, green, yellow, red, orange, purple, blue, blue, wow,
Speaker 2: everything never a rainbow moment.
Speaker 1: Come on, eternal sunch out of the spot is.
Speaker 2: Mine, I would say. So, I would say, like one
Speaker 2: of my worst hair moments is something that also has
Speaker 2: been spoken about. This we've also spoken about before or
Speaker 2: with Honey Pluton. When I did get my hair chemically
Speaker 2: straightened in high school at thee at the Red Kid Lounge,
Speaker 2: not not at the Red Kid Loud, but at the
Speaker 2: salon that was at the mall. I don't know that
Speaker 2: that was the worst one, but it, uh, it was
Speaker 2: probably up there. It's probably it's probably up there. And
Speaker 2: then you know, I mean like boy life. I mean,
Speaker 2: maybe my worst haircut looking back on it now, is
Speaker 2: the year before I transitioned. I had sort of a mullet,
Speaker 2: and then I had done sort of that like monk
Speaker 2: thing where you shave back the hairline a little bit,
Speaker 2: but then you still have like a bang kind of
Speaker 2: Oh my god, yeah, it was, it was. It was weird.
Speaker 1: It's so hard to imagine. Yeah, I don't, I really,
Speaker 1: I never I don't know anything about you pre transition.
Speaker 2: I don't even do you want to look at Do
Speaker 2: you want to get some old phone? No?
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no please, no no.
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it'll be fun. No.
Speaker 1: I know they're fun for you, but they're not fun
Speaker 1: for me. But I don't even know your dead name.
Speaker 2: Girl, You don't really, it's surprising.
Speaker 1: I have a guess, but I actually don't know.
Speaker 2: I if I can find, let's guess each other's. I mean,
Speaker 2: I mean, I think my my hair was always like
Speaker 2: shaggy was kind of always the moment.
Speaker 1: And then Scooby really hit it.
Speaker 2: Let me show you. I'll show you a picture of
Speaker 2: me in college, and I.
Speaker 1: To see this. This is non consensual.
Speaker 2: You really don't.
Speaker 1: On the Patreon, I've already seen a photo of you
Speaker 1: as like a high school boy, and even that was
Speaker 1: but this is me as a college boy, and it's
Speaker 1: actually like okaute, Okay, okay, isn't that crazy? It's really jarring,
Speaker 1: isn't it weird? You look really cute?
Speaker 2: I know, right, yeah you do. I have had some
Speaker 2: moments I like, don't. I like, really don't have a
Speaker 2: problem with looking at pre transition photos.
Speaker 1: Don't. So that was my boundary cross.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I I like, I know that we're sort
Speaker 2: of straying off topic, but we do that on this show.
Speaker 1: Well, you have hair on your face, this photo.
Speaker 2: Said I. I don't mind looking at pro transition photos of
Speaker 2: myself because like it's actually like kind of nice for
Speaker 2: me to look back nown and be like I wasn't
Speaker 2: so bad. Yeah, like I was kind of I was
Speaker 2: kind of cute, Like I'd fuck me.
Speaker 1: That's not the experience I'm having. I obviously don't have
Speaker 1: a problem looking at pre transition photos because I've only
Speaker 1: come out a year and still for a year. I've
Speaker 1: only been out for a year, and I still kind
Speaker 1: of look the same. But I I I do cringe
Speaker 1: so fiercely at old photos on myself because because you're
Speaker 1: able to, like, I don't know, photos like that, Like
Speaker 1: if I looked at my college version of that photo,
Speaker 1: I would just be immediately transported to like how out
Speaker 1: of touch I was with like myself and my body
Speaker 1: and my personhood and like so it's like kind of wonky,
Speaker 1: but like, no, it's it is, I do. I we've
Speaker 1: both gotten so much hotter, Like we both have glowed
Speaker 1: up so hard.
Speaker 2: I thank you, thank you for saying that, both about
Speaker 2: yourself and about me. I don't always feel it like
Speaker 2: I felt. So I felt that so much more at
Speaker 2: the beginning of my transition because it was so like
Speaker 2: it was something I had to believe just to like
Speaker 2: survive every day. Because okay, so here's a hair thing.
Speaker 2: Right before so as I said, I had that crazy
Speaker 2: like shaved back hairline. And when I decided to like
Speaker 2: when I like, the whole year leading up to deciding
Speaker 2: to transition, like I had been really like playing with
Speaker 2: my gender and like trying all these different forms of
Speaker 2: expression and like I had kind of long hair, and
Speaker 2: then during a performance at and I also had, I
Speaker 2: had fish hair, and during a performance at a party
Speaker 2: that Reefe Royalty used to throw at TNT, I buzzed
Speaker 2: all my hair off. And so I started my transition
Speaker 2: with no hair.
Speaker 1: What did you wear? Wicks?
Speaker 2: I to parties sometimes, but like I had, but like
Speaker 2: I had because of that the first two years in
Speaker 2: my transition, which, like like I've said before, like I
Speaker 2: look back on the time, it's like some of the
Speaker 2: worst moments of my life because I was like, so
Speaker 2: I was like my my my mentality was like so
Speaker 2: at odds with my presentation, and that only made me
Speaker 2: like push harder. And I was like just not giving
Speaker 2: physically what I was giving mentally and instead of like
Speaker 2: being a and I don't know, that's like very complicated
Speaker 2: and and I look back on it now and I
Speaker 2: don't cringe because like I know that it was necessary
Speaker 2: for my survival and it was like doing that allowed
Speaker 2: me to get to the point where I didn't have
Speaker 2: to do that anymore. But I really kind of fucked
Speaker 2: myself over because if I had kept that mullet, I
Speaker 2: at least would have had a little hair to like
Speaker 2: toss around when I was like stomping down myrtle Broadway.
Speaker 1: Starting your transition bolt is actually kind of a serve.
Speaker 1: Were you like Nonminaria first? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And I also in that same fold I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: show it to you, but and that same folder I
Speaker 2: was I had that photos in. I have a folder
Speaker 2: in my phone in my phone albums of just it
Speaker 2: says old of photos, like pre transition photos, like not
Speaker 2: like some baby photos, but mostly like adulthood photos. And
Speaker 2: there's one that I took like right after not only
Speaker 2: I cut all my hair off, but like totally like
Speaker 2: shaved my face like raw for the first time. And
Speaker 2: like looking at that, like it does it like a
Speaker 2: hairless Yeah, like a no, like a hairless cat cat.
Speaker 2: And it doesn't. It doesn't hurt to look at it.
Speaker 2: But I I just look at it, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: why did you start like that girl? Because I was
Speaker 2: going crazy. Transitioning is crazy, It's fucking crazy. Every hair
Speaker 2: is such a big.
Speaker 1: Part of it. It's essential. It's an essential part of
Speaker 1: the movement.
Speaker 2: So like, Okay, I'm going to bring us to like
Speaker 2: a dark I know we're getting kind of head well,
Speaker 2: we're getting to the light place after, We'll get to after.
Speaker 2: So So when I was like a year after I
Speaker 2: had started transitioning, I was raped, and I like was real.
Speaker 2: I had like a really like dark, dark, like intense
Speaker 2: period of trauma afterwards, and I like came very close
Speaker 2: to a suicide attempt. And one of the things that
Speaker 2: I did to pull myself out of it was like
Speaker 2: list all of the reasons why I wanted to be alive,
Speaker 2: and one of the ones I listed was like, I
Speaker 2: want to live enough for my hair to grow past
Speaker 2: my shoulders. Oh my god, you make me cry. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I did.
Speaker 1: I'm literally, oh my gosh, shut up, but sorry. I
Speaker 1: was making so many suicide jokes earlier, I mean sue
Speaker 1: jokes like help you get through the cold reality.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I make suicide jokes all the time. And
Speaker 2: I'm I like also came close to a suicide attempt,
Speaker 2: like not that long ago.
Speaker 1: So and you know, I okay. The thing about hair
Speaker 1: is actually your here can completely reinvigorate your head space
Speaker 1: and life like a good.
Speaker 2: Hair lip or it's on the space on your head.
Speaker 1: Yes, and like even like beyond like walking int of
Speaker 1: a haircut. Sometimes it's just like after you've worn hair
Speaker 1: for a certain time and then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you look and you're like, oh my god, like this
Speaker 1: is my hair, Like my hair's finally arrived where it
Speaker 1: needs to be. Like I feel like I had that
Speaker 1: recently my hair. Yeah, I'm pretty sure if only, Like
Speaker 1: I mean so in high school I did get that
Speaker 1: kind of like Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire era,
Speaker 1: like skater boy shag, like I had that hair. Oh
Speaker 1: you did. Okay. That was a big hair decision. And
Speaker 1: then maybe my second most important, my second hair decision
Speaker 1: was to go silver, which was like a big movement
Speaker 1: for me. And then after I I was silver for
Speaker 1: like a year and a half, I was so sick
Speaker 1: of like shoveling money, time and energy into like maintaining
Speaker 1: it because like never ever ever die, Like dying your
Speaker 1: whole head is crazy. If you have black hair, it's
Speaker 1: just not worth the energy and pain. And also just
Speaker 1: like I'm sick, there's it's not there's not a ton.
Speaker 2: Of success so much and it damages your hair and
Speaker 2: it gets.
Speaker 1: So bad, so yellow. And anyways, after that, I shaved
Speaker 1: my bult and that was kind of the last hair
Speaker 1: decision I made before I figured out that I was
Speaker 1: trans and I like my kind of not as dark
Speaker 1: as your period, but like my darker period was like
Speaker 1: years and years and years and years of doing nothing
Speaker 1: with my hair and wearing the same outfit every day
Speaker 1: because I used to have I was in that phase
Speaker 1: of like pretty much wearing the same like you know,
Speaker 1: all black whatever outfit every day and having this mustache
Speaker 1: that I didn't even like, reminding me of my dad.
Speaker 1: I still don't even know.
Speaker 2: Why I had facial hour.
Speaker 1: Why did you have facial hair? I still because I
Speaker 1: wanted to be fuckable, Like I still to this day
Speaker 1: don't know why I had a mustache.
Speaker 2: It was about being fuckable and right, I mean the
Speaker 2: what I what I've always thought about, like specifically, the
Speaker 2: year and some chain before I transitioned, I had like
Speaker 2: the most facial hair I've ever had. Yeah, and I
Speaker 2: and I think it was because, like what I've reflected
Speaker 2: on now is I needed to lean as far as
Speaker 2: I could into masculine presentation basically to see if that
Speaker 2: was real, like if that was who I actually was,
Speaker 2: Like Okay, I don't like because I had been feeling
Speaker 2: like I had always played with gender, like as a
Speaker 2: club kid, like I like presented like like very fem
Speaker 2: sometimes in those kinds of spaces, and like did things
Speaker 2: that were like drag adjacent but like more performance already.
Speaker 2: But I also like you know, being like I was
Speaker 2: like like being a little hairy, like being fat, you know,
Speaker 2: like also like existed in that like cub and like
Speaker 2: that was me experimenting, like trying to figure out, like, okay,
Speaker 2: with what I've been given, let me take it as
Speaker 2: far as it will go and see if that's the
Speaker 2: gender thing that feels real to me, or if the
Speaker 2: other stuff it was is what feels real. So like
Speaker 2: that year I was like had long facial hair. I
Speaker 2: was like go into the eagle and like you know,
Speaker 2: wearing leather and like going to a fairy sanctuary and
Speaker 2: like getting pissed on at the outdoor shower. And like
Speaker 2: my my friend and I who used to throw parties,
Speaker 2: we started throwing a party called Daddy, and I was
Speaker 2: like doing all of this like gender performance, and it
Speaker 2: all felt incredibly hollow. Yes, it felt so retroactively, you're like,
Speaker 2: and I like had to swing that far in that direction, yes,
Speaker 2: to realize that that wasn't who I wanted to be,
Speaker 2: and like I also and so like then I tried
Speaker 2: swinging to the middle and being like, Okay, well maybe
Speaker 2: I'm somewhere in the middle, so let me get this
Speaker 2: weird like you know, haircut and like you know where
Speaker 2: bad eyeshadow, and and like you know use like you know,
Speaker 2: neutral pronouns and like that didn't really feel either, And
Speaker 2: so then I had to ask myself, like, are these
Speaker 2: things just like a costume that is insulating me from
Speaker 2: like the truth of who I am or who like
Speaker 2: I've always wanted to be. And that was the answer,
Speaker 2: And like once I answered it, I like couldn't look
Speaker 2: away from it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like how could I Like it's been there.
Speaker 1: It's almost like it's been there the whole time in
Speaker 1: a weird way.
Speaker 2: Of course, the conversation about hair with two trans people
Speaker 2: being a conversation about and because hair is trans, it's
Speaker 2: trans period hairs trans trans is hair, trans is hair.
Speaker 2: It's like trans is having hair, not having hair, removing hair,
Speaker 2: growing hair like.
Speaker 1: It is hitting hair transplanted.
Speaker 2: It's so hair is so incredibly integral to your identity.
Speaker 2: It's trans.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about any person. I want to
Speaker 1: talk about hair body mod but before we move away
Speaker 1: from this little dark this little dark moment, I want
Speaker 1: to also, like, just what you just said was so validating,
Speaker 1: Like hollow was the word I the years that I
Speaker 1: spent like wearing the same, like having the same haircut,
Speaker 1: like my lesbian barber giving me the exact same haircut
Speaker 1: for six seven years, wearing the same outfit and a
Speaker 1: mustache that I retrospect retroactively, I'm like, definitely was like
Speaker 1: I was thinking about maybe being fuckable, but honestly, I
Speaker 1: didn't even feel fuckable. I just felt like I was
Speaker 1: trying to hide my face because I didn't like looking
Speaker 1: at my face, and my mustache was something to distract
Speaker 1: me and others from the fact that I didn't like
Speaker 1: my face and didn't feel attractive. And and like I
Speaker 1: I think that maybe I also really liked the kind
Speaker 1: of vintage vintagey like castro clone, like porn stash like
Speaker 1: and I did do it before. That was cool, by
Speaker 1: the way, but no, like I now, I'm trying so
Speaker 1: desperately to remove all my hair and grow it all
Speaker 1: on top of my head and and maybe get like
Speaker 1: hair transplants in the corners of my forehead and I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I like they're like I'm able to look
Speaker 2: at like the photo I showed you, and like I
Speaker 2: know who that person was, and I do feel a
Speaker 2: connection with them when I look at the photos of
Speaker 2: like the year leading up to me deciding to transition
Speaker 2: and then the year like immediately following it. That's the
Speaker 2: person who I'm like, I don't know who you are
Speaker 2: because like I don't understand the either like the extreme
Speaker 2: in one direction or like the like chrysalis.
Speaker 1: Uh, like I hate the.
Speaker 2: Metaphor, but that is that is who I feel so
Speaker 2: far away from because it's like that person was so
Speaker 2: confused about who they were and was in so much pain,
Speaker 2: and like the hair was such a manifestation, was a
Speaker 2: tranifestation of that. You can see pain. Hair is pain.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, tell me, tell tell me that I
Speaker 1: still have not gone to electrolysis and I'm about to
Speaker 1: start that journey.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yeah, have you did you decide where
Speaker 2: you're gonna go?
Speaker 1: Yeah, my friend, I have a lot of friends that
Speaker 1: all recommended me to the same place, which I am
Speaker 1: going to gate keep for now.
Speaker 2: Well, you'll have to tell me how it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm I'm trying to get my health insurance to
Speaker 1: pay for it. This is an interesting but anyways, hair
Speaker 1: electrolysis versus laser, that is interesting to me.
Speaker 2: Like, well, electrolysis hurts so much more because laser is
Speaker 2: very quick. Yeah, an electrolysis like you pay by the
Speaker 2: time increment because they pay by the hair because they
Speaker 2: go in and zap each hair follicle individual and you
Speaker 2: and I.
Speaker 1: Know somebody who like clinically knocked herself out to experience
Speaker 1: electrolysis because the pain, which I would like to do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I want a doctor that will let me be unconscious
Speaker 1: during it.
Speaker 2: I want someone to come into my home while I'm sleeping.
Speaker 1: Knock me out. Yeah, yeah, knock me clean out.
Speaker 2: And well, no, I want to I want I want
Speaker 2: to take like three ambient and then wake up, not three. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then have you ever are you gonna do laser
Speaker 2: anywhere else on your body?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I it really depends on how well everything else goes.
Speaker 2: But if you know you can't do it anywhere you've
Speaker 2: been tattooed.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna that's the problem. What Yeah, that's really good
Speaker 1: to know. But that's fine because I really only want
Speaker 1: laser on my whole and maybe on my chest. But
Speaker 1: I I'm not really that's more like kind of like
Speaker 1: fun money like next step because I actually, I mean
Speaker 1: obviously I don't. I just like shave the hair on
Speaker 1: my whole and I don't mind. I like I when
Speaker 1: I trim the hair on my chest, I don't mind it.
Speaker 1: I don't mind what it does.
Speaker 2: I never shaved my whole. Oh really, and I had
Speaker 2: someone recently.
Speaker 1: But your hair, your probably whole hair, your hair hoole,
Speaker 1: your hair whole, your whole hair, your whole hair is
Speaker 1: probably so fine.
Speaker 2: And maybe maybe, but I did have someone. This has
Speaker 2: happened a couple of times. But I can recall one
Speaker 2: recent instance where someone was like, we were making plants
Speaker 2: to hook them, and they were like, are you gonna, like,
Speaker 2: you know, are you gonna be like smooth and hairless
Speaker 2: for me? And I was like, I would never groom
Speaker 2: myself based on someone else's requirement.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, never on principle. On principle, I would, however,
Speaker 1: so that guy should slide into my DMS, I do.
Speaker 1: There is something about like when if a guy's coming
Speaker 1: over and it's a guy who's into like a girl
Speaker 1: like me. I do want to kind of be like
Speaker 1: buffed and puffed and trimped and talked, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. I mean, I'm not talking, but I taught.
Speaker 2: I used to. I used to feel that way. I
Speaker 2: used to put so much effort into like when especially
Speaker 2: when I was hooking up with people and like being
Speaker 2: as cute and femb as possible, And now I like, hey,
Speaker 2: I don't hey, b I don't care. I mean a
Speaker 2: big part of it is like I'm actively not looking
Speaker 2: to have sex with like chasers with straight people. I'm
Speaker 2: like primarily trying to have sex with queer people. So
Speaker 2: I like would hope that queer people like don't care
Speaker 2: about that as much. And then also like I don't
Speaker 2: care about it, yeah, as much.
Speaker 1: You actually have helped you. You were one of the
Speaker 1: primary people to like continually reorient my thinking around that,
Speaker 1: being like you gotta stop prepping and buffing and puffing
Speaker 1: for guys that don't show up, because that happened to
Speaker 1: me so frequently in Los Angeles, Like fuck every man
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles who did that to me? But like
Speaker 1: nobody likes to like douche and go through the whole
Speaker 1: hour long ringer of like looking like a presentable, clean
Speaker 1: person for somebody that doesn't show up but now and
Speaker 1: so I don't do that anymore for other men. I
Speaker 1: do it for me if I'm doing it, yeah, and
Speaker 1: if I And the only reason I'm doing it is
Speaker 1: because I want to feel powerful. I don't care if
Speaker 1: that is what they desire. I don't care if that's
Speaker 1: a need that they want. It's like I'm using my
Speaker 1: kind of feminine beauty and glow to you know, woo them.
Speaker 1: And it's also like honestly on like the facial hair
Speaker 1: of it all, and just like how I present as
Speaker 1: a person, because sometimes they feel totally crazy just talking
Speaker 1: about being trans in general. It's like sometimes they feel
Speaker 1: like I have kind of reverse gender dysphoria where I
Speaker 1: think I'm like way more soft and cunt than I
Speaker 1: actually am, and like sometimes that works out for you.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like a Jedi mind trick. I mean
Speaker 1: a lot of being trands is like a Jedi mind
Speaker 1: trick that you have to do on yourself.
Speaker 2: Well you have to, and like I mean, the thing
Speaker 2: is like you did come out like last year, and
Speaker 2: you like I'm I'm telling you, like I think, especially
Speaker 2: coming out as an adult, because like now we live
Speaker 2: in a world where people are coming out younger and younger,
Speaker 2: and like, once you've like lived in the world like
Speaker 2: with your body looking a certain way, like you really
Speaker 2: have to kind of beat a little Delulu. Oh, you
Speaker 2: have a while until you like kind of catch up
Speaker 2: to where you want to be. And like, obviously neither
Speaker 2: of us are saying like there's only one right way
Speaker 2: to present as a transperson, as a trans woman, like whatever,
Speaker 2: But when you do want that, sometimes you gotta lie
Speaker 2: to your It's not that I'm saying that you're lying,
Speaker 2: but like sometimes you just have to like fucking believe
Speaker 2: it so much so that other people will too, or
Speaker 2: so that even if other people don't believe it, at
Speaker 2: least you do, and so like in your mind that
Speaker 2: makes them the stupid ones for not getting it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, Delulu is the end. D Lulu
Speaker 1: is my life and brand like that is like how
Speaker 1: I operate, Like you know that, like kind of one
Speaker 1: of my best and worst qualities is that I truly
Speaker 1: fiercely believe that things can happen when they truly will
Speaker 1: not happen. You know, but sometimes you have to like
Speaker 1: believe in it in order to get even like a
Speaker 1: fraction of close to what you want. And like in
Speaker 1: terms of like hair, like I mean you and I
Speaker 1: are very lucky to be in a Brooklyn trans bubble
Speaker 1: where like I can go to bars and be among
Speaker 1: friends and being among gay people who will actually see
Speaker 1: me and acknowledge my gender and use my pronouns, and
Speaker 1: I don't even have to ask, like and I didn't
Speaker 1: even have to inform them that was something that was
Speaker 1: disseminated to them, or maybe they got a clue based
Speaker 1: on how it is presenting. But I do fiercely believe that,
Speaker 1: among other things, my hair right now is like part
Speaker 1: of what really helps people see me. Not that gender
Speaker 1: should be so tied up in performance. And that's like
Speaker 1: a whole other conversation that we don't need to talk about.
Speaker 2: Like gender, it's a way that you telegraph to the world,
Speaker 2: Like it's how you clue them in. And I also
Speaker 2: think it's not necessarily just like a Brooklyn queer bubble.
Speaker 2: It's like we live in New York. Yes, like people
Speaker 2: here are used to the existence of trans people.
Speaker 1: Yes, like you will walk out the door and see
Speaker 1: them getting coffee, like going on a jog, like you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know what people do.
Speaker 2: I think like people here, when they see someone who's
Speaker 2: maybe like their initial perception of them, based on whatever reason,
Speaker 2: doesn't match up to what it seems they are trying
Speaker 2: to inform the world about them. They instead, I think
Speaker 2: here people in major metropolitan cities like New York, people
Speaker 2: are more likely to be like, Okay, I'll go with
Speaker 2: what this person is clearly trying to do, rather than
Speaker 2: like what I'm assuming.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, exactly.
Speaker 2: H And hair is such a huge part of it,
Speaker 2: Like I you know, I have there are days when
Speaker 2: I feel like really gross and like like bricky, and
Speaker 2: the fact that I have this like long hair is
Speaker 2: like a shield that I get to wear out into
Speaker 2: the world that I'm like, at the very least I
Speaker 2: have this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even I mean, my facial hair is like
Speaker 1: my biggest battle. It's like the thing that I hate
Speaker 1: the most about my face up from frequently and I had.
Speaker 2: And it's just never gonna be gone, Like that is
Speaker 2: just reality, Like shut up, no, I'm dealing with your
Speaker 2: hair is gone? Are you kidding? I can so much.
Speaker 1: Seeing I've never seen a single hair on your face.
Speaker 2: That's crazy to me because I see it.
Speaker 1: I'm sitting because like up next to your face, so
Speaker 1: now you see it. No, not right now, I'm saying,
Speaker 1: only when I am like literally like putting my eyes
Speaker 1: next to your face because you just told me that
Speaker 1: you just had laser and so you haven't shaved in
Speaker 1: four days. Is the only time where I have seen
Speaker 1: hair on your face.
Speaker 2: You will see this me right now? Is like I
Speaker 2: almost like I almost shaved this morning because this is
Speaker 2: like more it's it's gotten better recently because I had
Speaker 2: laser again, but and also because I've just kind of
Speaker 2: stopped caring as much about going out, like feeling like
Speaker 2: I have visible facial hair. But like this where I'm
Speaker 2: at now is kind of like the last day into
Speaker 2: a cycle that I would want to do that and
Speaker 2: something toxic is like I do like orient the way
Speaker 2: I schedule my life still around shaving. That's all around
Speaker 2: shaving and also around washing my hair. That's not toxic
Speaker 2: at all. That's totally normal. Like the way the way
Speaker 2: that I only I will only smoke a cigarette the
Speaker 2: day that I'm washing my hair. It's like also not
Speaker 2: toxic I like to think about the Like if I'm
Speaker 2: making plans with someone for dinner, I'm like, oh, like
Speaker 2: I should make plans like the day after. I know
Speaker 2: I'm going to shave the next time, you know, so
Speaker 2: like I don't get myself in like a bad cycle.
Speaker 2: You know, like I'm getting I'm getting my hair done
Speaker 2: on Thursday, and I'm like, okay, I'm I know I'm
Speaker 2: gonna want to like take photos, like make a TikTok,
Speaker 2: so I should make sure that like I'm like not
Speaker 2: clocky that day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely shaving for like any front
Speaker 1: facing camera video I'm doing generally, and then like figuring
Speaker 1: out how to like cover up like my beard shadow,
Speaker 1: which will go away one day, right.
Speaker 2: You will. You will be shocked one like the first
Speaker 2: time you have or like the next time you have
Speaker 2: like a successful laser electrolysis or whatever, like and that
Speaker 2: when you shave and like the shadow isn't immediately there,
Speaker 2: like it will be a very big moment. Okay, so
Speaker 2: oh future haion, Okay, future hair decisions. So I mean
Speaker 2: this episode will come out after this has happened. But
Speaker 2: I have a hair appointment on Thursday. I have I'm
Speaker 2: really happy with the person who does my hair now.
Speaker 2: I like kind of when I moved back to New York,
Speaker 2: I'd been seeing someone in LA who, like I kind
Speaker 2: of liked, but he was kind of the person I
Speaker 2: was talking about before who he was more like he
Speaker 2: gave me exactly what I asked for rather than giving
Speaker 2: his opinion and like having a conversation about it. This
Speaker 2: person who I work with now at the salon the
Speaker 2: Birdhouse in Bushwick, which is like literally the only reason
Speaker 2: I will go to Bushwick is to go to the
Speaker 2: salon because I have a really amazing hairstylist. Her name
Speaker 2: is Drenne, and she it's always like very collaborative and
Speaker 2: when we talk when we do my hair, and like
Speaker 2: we've gotten into a good cycle of like maintenance and
Speaker 2: also okay, so also I have broken my cycle with her,
Speaker 2: of the the cycle that I had gotten myself into,
Speaker 2: which was specifically about hair color. And you know that
Speaker 2: I used to do this, so it was always like
Speaker 2: basically even even pre transition, like I did this like
Speaker 2: when I was when I was presenting as a boy.
Speaker 2: It would be red in the sum, red in the fall,
Speaker 2: dark in the winter, blonde in the summer and then
Speaker 2: usually like late summer, when the blonde was growing out,
Speaker 2: I would do like a fun color.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't matter what year it is, Rose will
Speaker 1: still ask the internet if she should go blonde or
Speaker 1: go red but this or if you should have bangs.
Speaker 2: But this year, I really like firmly made the decision
Speaker 2: that my hair is meant to be or like I
Speaker 2: feel the most me when I have red hair or
Speaker 2: like reddish hair. And I even like I went blonder
Speaker 2: for the summer, and like a month into it, I
Speaker 2: was like, no, this isn't right, Like I have to
Speaker 2: I have to break the cycle. And so now it's
Speaker 2: like it's always going to be read, Like the tone
Speaker 2: might change, but it's always going.
Speaker 1: To be read, and then maybe the shape might change.
Speaker 2: The shape might change. I have been I have been
Speaker 2: pretty seriously considering bangs.
Speaker 1: And you can't see right now, but Rose has a
Speaker 1: knife to her throat and she is threatening.
Speaker 2: I know, like the bank thought like came from a
Speaker 2: dark place at first, because of the recent mental trauma
Speaker 2: I've been enduring.
Speaker 1: She's like, I swear to God, I'm gonna get bangs.
Speaker 2: But now I've been doing something. I've been looking. I've
Speaker 2: been spending a lot of my time recently looking at
Speaker 2: old photos of my and I, well, like from the
Speaker 2: past couple of years, and I specifically went and looked
Speaker 2: at all the photos of myself where I had bangs
Speaker 2: from the past couple of years, and I do really
Speaker 2: like how they look on me. At the same time,
Speaker 2: like I do like my hair the way it currently
Speaker 2: is kind of I think what I've realized is like
Speaker 2: the I like the way I look with bangs, They're
Speaker 2: not always the most functional for my hair texture and
Speaker 2: my lifestyle because I'm a forehead sweater, so my bangs
Speaker 2: get like when I have bangs, like they will get
Speaker 2: kind of damp, and like no one wants to walk
Speaker 2: around with like wet hair, Okay, but like what if
Speaker 2: you're just doing the little curler every morning so that
Speaker 2: the bangs are kind of like this, so they're not
Speaker 2: touching your forehead, you know, even then they'll still get,
Speaker 2: you know, like damp.
Speaker 1: But the reference is Florence, right, or maybe like or
Speaker 1: what do we what do we going? What are we?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean Florence.
Speaker 1: Do we want to straight across bang? Do we really
Speaker 1: want to do that?
Speaker 2: Or do I think here, I'll show you. I'll show
Speaker 2: you a reference.
Speaker 1: I'm not being subtle. I kind of want you to
Speaker 1: go in a more feathery vibe because.
Speaker 2: I think, well, I've done I've done a curtain bang before,
Speaker 2: and like that is probably.
Speaker 1: A curtain bang is the Florence bang.
Speaker 2: No, a curtain bang is like a longer, more feathery bang. Okay,
Speaker 2: and that doesn't work for you. This is kind of
Speaker 2: Oh I like this love. It's like it's like blunt
Speaker 2: but still a little feathery.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, it's it's a little it's like not asymmetrical,
Speaker 1: but it's a little choppy. Not it's not that's it.
Speaker 1: It's not trying to be.
Speaker 2: No, I'm not going to I'm not ever gonna do
Speaker 2: like a Zoe Dachanell bang.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's what I was worried.
Speaker 2: But Florence is more the vibe. And also, like my
Speaker 2: you know, I was just home visiting my family recently,
Speaker 2: and my my mom and my two sisters all three
Speaker 2: of them have bangs. We all have the same texture hair,
Speaker 2: like all of us, and it was like a nice moment.
Speaker 2: We were all sitting around talking about our hair and
Speaker 2: we like they were all talking about having bangs, and
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I kind of want that. And also,
Speaker 2: I my mom and I went out for breakfast one
Speaker 2: morning and I posted a picture of her on my
Speaker 2: Instagram story, and so many people either commented or told
Speaker 2: me the next time they saw me, oh my god,
Speaker 2: you and your mom look so much like you have
Speaker 2: the exact same hair, and that a couple of years ago,
Speaker 2: I realized my hair was red, and I realized I
Speaker 2: looked at a photo of my mom from when she
Speaker 2: was young, and I was like, oh my god, I
Speaker 2: look so much like my mom. And I immediately dyed
Speaker 2: my hair a different color because I didn't like that.
Speaker 2: And now you're like, and like, I love it. I
Speaker 2: want to look like that. And my mom and I
Speaker 2: when I was home the most recent, like last week,
Speaker 2: we literally had like our hair is the same color,
Speaker 2: the same texture, we do that we wear it the
Speaker 2: same way. She has bangs, so like I kind of
Speaker 2: wanted to just lean into it.
Speaker 1: You should, you absolutely should, so.
Speaker 2: I might be getting.
Speaker 1: I'm very pro bangs so long as they're bangs that
Speaker 1: like don't feel like they should feel like an extension
Speaker 1: of what you already have. And I think that like
Speaker 1: that reference image is perfect to me. You're gonna be
Speaker 1: so much more TikTok though it's gonna make you like
Speaker 1: it's just gonna be so cute.
Speaker 2: And I think maybe, like I'll have to decide if
Speaker 2: because every time I've gotten bangs, I haven't maintained them.
Speaker 2: I always immediately start growing them out, and so I
Speaker 2: think that's where I so if I just like commit
Speaker 2: to having them for a while, I won't feel as
Speaker 2: as much like that I regret them, but like I'll
Speaker 2: always regret a haircut or a hair color decision, as
Speaker 2: I said in three to five business days.
Speaker 1: Do you want to know the hair decision that I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about?
Speaker 2: Yes, tell me extensions again?
Speaker 1: No, oh my god. I mean I would love to
Speaker 1: have an extensions moment, but that would be more like
Speaker 1: event based, like a ponytail or something like that. I'm
Speaker 1: currently thinking a lot, and I can't really do it
Speaker 1: until I have like fun money, but like that probably
Speaker 1: could be like maybe as soon as the winter. I
Speaker 1: am thinking a lot about So I actually love the
Speaker 1: color like your color, like red brown, whatever, and I
Speaker 1: think it would go really well with my black hair.
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking about taking just my haircut as it
Speaker 1: is and dyeing all of the tips red. That's cute, yeah,
Speaker 1: because I think it would be like not, It's not
Speaker 1: like a huge change, and it's something that I can
Speaker 1: chop off if I get sick of it.
Speaker 2: It's a little emot.
Speaker 1: It's a little malgoth, but I can But the way
Speaker 1: I would wear it would be pretty fashion. I mean
Speaker 1: not in what I'm literally in a mal goth outfit
Speaker 1: right now, like kind of crazy, but like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I've been feeling the kind of emo. But I also
Speaker 1: just have been wanting more texture in my hair, like
Speaker 1: more something that just like brings out, like the shape
Speaker 1: and the feel of it. So I think that might
Speaker 1: be my next move because I haven't gotten a haircut
Speaker 1: in months, which is a great thing because my haircuts
Speaker 1: are so expensive. But yeah, no, I'm thinking about a
Speaker 1: red like yours, maybe a red that's like a little
Speaker 1: more electric and a little less auburn.
Speaker 2: That's very exciting. I mean, I'm when I do my
Speaker 2: hair this week, I'm doing cut and color, so I
Speaker 2: will be going a much deeper, darker copper red.
Speaker 1: I'm going would you describe this now?
Speaker 2: This is like auburn like a like a it was
Speaker 2: copper the last time I got it colored and it
Speaker 2: has faded to more of an auburn. But I also
Speaker 2: my hair is like very highlighted, so a lot of
Speaker 2: it so like it is light because of that work.
Speaker 2: But this is kind of the vibe.
Speaker 1: But oh that's really red. Wow, Sophie, I extremely read and.
Speaker 2: Also like getting older older Florence, because Florence now does
Speaker 2: like a more naturally ginger.
Speaker 1: Oh that's her, but that's not her natural hair color. No,
Speaker 1: no way, Wait, that air is amazing.
Speaker 2: The bangs are not, but I don't I don't mind
Speaker 2: the and also also Emma Stone and Corilla that's amazing.
Speaker 1: Wait, well the glasses I mean with god, Wait, that's
Speaker 1: a really good bang.
Speaker 2: And also Florence and the Shake It Out video that
Speaker 2: is kind of the ultimate reference. Yes, Florence shake it
Speaker 2: Out Ceremonials Era. Florence is like the hair and bang
Speaker 2: that I'm going for.
Speaker 1: I wish I could pull off that color red you
Speaker 1: really like with your with your postaline skin tone, It's
Speaker 1: really gonna look so fierce on you. I can't wait
Speaker 1: for that hair. Era.
Speaker 2: Who's hair? Who in the world? Like, do you think.
Speaker 1: Hair outside the opera. Okay, nice, but the tattoo I
Speaker 1: have on my thigh slash the hair that I am
Speaker 1: aspiring to Yeah, what about you.
Speaker 2: Uh, Nicole Kiinman In practical.
Speaker 3: Matter, yes, well, hair is maybe a generat Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: let's say some some hair, the most synthetic, the most
Speaker 3: hair extensions ever committed to film.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and now a clip from our Patreon become a
Speaker 2: patron at patreon dot com, slash like a virgin for
Speaker 2: weekly bonus episodes and more so. I know that we
Speaker 2: have discussed religion before in our in every episode, in
Speaker 2: every episode about France childhood trauma, and specifically in our
Speaker 2: Christmas episode from Holidays twenty twenty one. But today we're
Speaker 2: going to talk about spirituality, you know, not necessarily organized religion,
Speaker 2: more of like woo oo like esotic spirituality between us
Speaker 2: and our God or.
Speaker 1: God's mysticism, higher powers, vibes, vibes, manifestation, trannifestation, the power
Speaker 1: of magic. Thinking the secret.
Speaker 2: The secret I'm secreting the secret which I whenever I
Speaker 2: think about the Secret, I think about Samantha reading it
Speaker 2: on the beach and the Sex and the City movie.
Speaker 2: I'm secreting secreting.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I was going to say totally separate.
Speaker 1: We honestly should do an episode on the Bible that
Speaker 1: would actually be a really good separate episode. Stay tuned
Speaker 1: for that. But like, I really feel like in terms
Speaker 1: of like religion, spirituality, whatnot, we are in a very
Speaker 1: interesting time post Channy Nicholas, Post Channy Nicholas. We're in
Speaker 1: front of the podcast, friend of the podcast Channy Nicholas,
Speaker 1: We're in everybody. I mean, we actually almost over indexed
Speaker 1: on astrology culture and now Australiy's like astrology is a
Speaker 1: little bit on it Wait, sorry, Channing, I mean like
Speaker 1: not on its way out, but like we're talking about
Speaker 1: it less because we've kind of exhausted the amount we're
Speaker 1: talking about it. But I say this all to say
Speaker 1: is that the crystals and the woo woo and the
Speaker 1: kind of white woman mysticism that is kind of oozing
Speaker 1: its way through a lot of our culture and our
Speaker 1: daily conversations has a lot to do I think with
Speaker 1: the fact that like Christianity is becoming less and less.
Speaker 2: Popular, not if you watch the news.
Speaker 1: No, it really is, like statistically, like people that believe
Speaker 1: in God are becoming the minority, which is cool. They
Speaker 1: are not like in a population that is necessarily increasing.
Speaker 2: Do you do you believe in God? No, God, God God?
Speaker 2: Do you believe in some kind of higher power or
Speaker 2: I guess sort of like intelligent design to the universe.
Speaker 2: Do you believe in magic and sort of the power
Speaker 2: of positive thinking and like energy and that?
Speaker 1: I kind of. I don't believe in magic personally. I
Speaker 1: believe in a person's a bit to sell themselves on
Speaker 1: a story and for that story to have actual ramifications
Speaker 1: on their life. So with Christianity or with astrology, or
Speaker 1: with reading taro or like whatever it is that is
Speaker 1: your you're really telling yourself a motherfucking fairy tale. But
Speaker 1: those fits. But the thing is, stories are so powerful.
Speaker 2: So powerful.
Speaker 1: I'm holding Rose's hand right now, my God, stories are
Speaker 1: literally so powerful.
Speaker 2: I can't. We have not said that on the podcast
Speaker 2: for so long, and honestly for too long.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that'll be our hat, That'll be the next hat
Speaker 1: I do. It's it's crazy, though, I'm actually saying, being
Speaker 1: very earnest, like the power of storytelling is actually religion,
Speaker 1: like the Bible is actual mythology that has been sold
Speaker 1: to billions of people that has been passed down through
Speaker 1: eons and the world. Yes, and that's the story. Is
Speaker 1: that powerful?
Speaker 2: So stories are so powerful.
Speaker 1: But now we do versions of this with the kind
Speaker 1: of like white woman manifestation thing. Like I do actually
Speaker 1: think that, like, whatever it is that is your jug,
Speaker 1: believing in something higher is good for you and good
Speaker 1: for your brain. Like science science statistics have actually shown that, like,
Speaker 1: people that believe in God or some kind of higher
Speaker 1: power are statistically happier than the rest of the population. Like,
Speaker 1: and it makes sense because you because you're believing in
Speaker 1: a lie. But lies are great. Lies are powerful, and
Speaker 1: that's why I think I love a lot of them.
Speaker 1: I subscribe to a lot of wo Woo girls stuff
Speaker 1: because I think it's important to just in the same
Speaker 1: way we use therapy to reflect, to like, use the
Speaker 1: stories of the world to I don't know, live your life,
Speaker 1: to orient your life.
Speaker 2: Around what do you think is the most woo woo
Speaker 2: thing you do?
Speaker 1: Oh, that's a really good question. Do you have an
Speaker 1: answer to this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pretty superstitious, you know, I will. I used
Speaker 2: to be much more when I was a kid, Like
Speaker 2: step on a crack break your mother's back that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff. But like if I have if I have
Speaker 2: an eyelash, I'm making a wish on it. Okay, if
Speaker 2: it's eleven eleven, I'm making a wish. Okay. If I
Speaker 2: spill salt, I'm throwing it over my shoulder, although I
Speaker 2: always forget which shoulder it's supposed to be, Like I
Speaker 2: do kind of it's not that I believe that stuff,
Speaker 2: but I always have that moment of like, what if
Speaker 2: I don't do it in something something bad happens, or
Speaker 2: like things like my mom always used to tell me
Speaker 2: when you start a new job, make sure that on
Speaker 2: the first day you walk in on your right foot.
Speaker 2: Like little things like that like have like accumulated in
Speaker 2: my brain. And so I think that is the thing
Speaker 2: that I still have some lingering belief in that they're
Speaker 2: is a sort of pattern we can hack into through
Speaker 2: these little rituals that have like accumulated over millennia, and
Speaker 2: because of like the belief in them, they hold some
Speaker 2: kind of power. I don't necessarily think that power comes
Speaker 2: from like God or any or anything, but like even
Speaker 2: if it's just like the power of my own beliefs, Like, yes,
Speaker 2: I do believe in that so that is I think
Speaker 2: the woo wooiest thing about me, and there have been
Speaker 2: times in my life when I've been into much more
Speaker 2: woo woo things. Same, but that's kind of curzy.
Speaker 1: Jesus