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Speaker 1: Adam Kinchinger is the author of a book called Renegade.

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Speaker 1: It is his autobiography. Welcome Congressman, kid tigger.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, good to be with you, and good to

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Speaker 2: be with all these handsome faces I'm seeing around.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about the aircraft behind you. The picture on

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Speaker 1: your right, you're in the cockpit. There an open air cockpit.

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Speaker 1: And then I think that is a your balance aircraft

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Speaker 1: that you might have flown during your reserve duty. Tell

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Speaker 1: us about those planes.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, so actually the military plane. Let me see

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Speaker 2: if I have it here that I flew. It's basically

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Speaker 2: a big version of this. This is a Merlin three

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Speaker 2: hundred and that is actually I own that. Well, I

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Speaker 2: own this model, of course because I'm holding it, but

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Speaker 2: I own the actual real aircraft that this is based on.

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Speaker 2: It's a I just bought it about a year ago,

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Speaker 2: and it's fast. It's like a three hundred not airplane,

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Speaker 2: and it's awesome. You know, It's expensive to fly, so

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Speaker 2: I don't get to fly it as much as I did,

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Speaker 2: like when I had a small Mooney, but it's awesome

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Speaker 2: because if I need to get somewhere, I can get

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Speaker 2: there quickly and take the entire family. And then over

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Speaker 2: here this by the way, this picture is me and

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Speaker 2: Jamie Herrera Butler. We're high fiving each other on our

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Speaker 2: way to actually vote to impeach Trump. And there was

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Speaker 2: an AP reporter or one of those reporters that take

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Speaker 2: pictures all the time, that took a picture of us,

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Speaker 2: and we didn't know they were there. So that was

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Speaker 2: like an organic HI five. And so that's a great picture.

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Speaker 2: And then over here is me and it's Congressman Steve Graves.

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Speaker 2: He or not Steve Grave, Sam Graves. He always does

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Speaker 2: an air show. He basically lives on an airport, and

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Speaker 2: he's probably the only guy that loves flying more than

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Speaker 2: me and in Congress, and so I'd go to his

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Speaker 2: air show every year, and we went up and flew

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Speaker 2: and that's his T six. So that was like a

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Speaker 2: train and World War two. If you start flying like

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Speaker 2: World War two vintage aircraft, you basically have to get

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Speaker 2: a bunch of hours in that and become an expert

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Speaker 2: in in formation and everything to then go on to

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Speaker 2: maybe fly like the P fifty one or anything else.

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Speaker 2: So I haven't gotten into that yet. I hope someday

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Speaker 2: to do that. It's through the Commemorative Air Force. But

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Speaker 2: I got to get more time, and I gotta get

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Speaker 2: more tailwheel experience, even though I've got like, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: six thousand hours flying or something like that. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: the military version is just that plane, just a little

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Speaker 2: bit longer and bigger wings, and it's got a bunch

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Speaker 2: of cool equipment on it that spies on people, but

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Speaker 2: not Americans, just bad guys.

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Speaker 1: And you also flew refueling tankers, which are the planes

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Speaker 1: that service a fighter jet in air. It lowers the

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Speaker 1: boom the plane flies up, connects to it, and fills

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Speaker 1: up the gas tanks while in flight.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's uh. And by the way, high to some

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Speaker 2: of the Illinois folks, I'm seeing pop up. Yeah. So

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Speaker 2: I flew the KC one thirty five. I did that

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Speaker 2: for about including training, about two years, and that was

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Speaker 2: a fantastic plane. I actually I remember I was over

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Speaker 2: Iraq at one point, out of Qatar, and uh, and

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Speaker 2: I just looked down because you know, those refuelers you're

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Speaker 2: flying at like twenty five thousand feet, you're out of

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Speaker 2: weapons range of you know, if you're fighting against the

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Speaker 2: country that's not like Russia or China. And I just

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Speaker 2: remember looking down and being like, I want to do

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Speaker 2: something like more in the dirt. So I flew that

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Speaker 2: with you know, for a couple of years. It's great,

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Speaker 2: great aircraft, great mission. But I wanted a different mission.

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Speaker 2: So in O seven I actually became dual qualified, which

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Speaker 2: is very rare in the Air Force. So I got

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Speaker 2: the dual qualified in the RC twenty six, which is

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Speaker 2: what I finished out my career in, and then also

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Speaker 2: the Casey one thirty five, so I actually flew both

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Speaker 2: for a year and then I went full time on

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Speaker 2: the on the RC twenty six. With that, I went

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Speaker 2: to Iraq, Afghanistan. Hey, normal Illinois, I went to Iraq, Afghanistan,

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Speaker 2: all over the world. I mean in both those planes

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Speaker 2: it was great, and the RC twenty six as well.

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Speaker 2: We would do domestic missions, so I said, we don't

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Speaker 2: spy on you. We didn't unless you were a bad

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Speaker 2: guy running from the police or dealing drugs. We would

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Speaker 2: have an agent on board to make it. Since we

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Speaker 2: were National Guard, it complies with posse comittatis and we

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Speaker 2: would actually help local law enforcement track down drug dealers.

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Speaker 2: We worked the border a bunch, which is actually why

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty aggressive on the border. Because I saw it firsthand.

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Speaker 2: It's a mess, and so it's been great and I

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Speaker 2: miss it. I'm sad that I had to retire, you know,

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Speaker 2: I got twenty two years in or whatever. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was it goes by in a flash, as everybody knows,

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Speaker 2: twenty years goes by pretty quick.

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Speaker 1: You have been outspoken and critical of Donald Trump, and

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Speaker 1: I think share my view that it'd be a catastrophe

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Speaker 1: were he to return to the presidency. We were talking

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Speaker 1: about the military. You spent twenty two years in, you

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Speaker 1: flew the entire time. You retired with the rank of

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Speaker 1: lieutenant colonel. There is military news tonight. A captain in

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Speaker 1: the United States Navy who's the commander of a ballistic

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Speaker 1: missile submarine was relieved of duty. The Navy simply makes

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Speaker 1: the announcement, says that they didn't meet the standard. Comes

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Speaker 1: out that forty eight hours prior, he was arrested, charged

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Speaker 1: with a DWI offense and driving without insurance outside the gates.

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Speaker 1: Fifty three years old. This is one of the Navy's

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Speaker 1: most highly trained officers commander of a ballistic missile submarine.

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Speaker 1: He makes a character mistake and there is no second

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Speaker 1: chance at that level. He pays the full price. What

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Speaker 1: is it that has gone off the rails in American politics,

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Speaker 1: in your estimation where the character defects are celebrated while

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Speaker 1: punishment is imposed. It seems to me, more often than

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Speaker 1: not bottom up. And I'm not trying to victimize or

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Speaker 1: to allow a Navy captain who did that, who commanded

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Speaker 1: a ship like that, to claim victimization. But what has

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Speaker 1: gone wrong and off the rails in the society. You know,

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Speaker 1: one thing we share is we're both gen xers, and

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Speaker 1: I just find it constantly and perpetually bewildering.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's a great point, you know, it's

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Speaker 2: it's I mean, I remember, you know, in pilot training,

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Speaker 2: well my entire time is a pilot, not just pilot training,

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Speaker 2: but particularly then it gets hammered into us. Look, you know,

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Speaker 2: you get a DUI, you're gonna you're done flying. And

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Speaker 2: if you're lucky, you can stay in the military, if

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Speaker 2: you're a young officer and they've got a place for you,

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Speaker 2: but you'll you'll never make it past major you may

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Speaker 2: security forces or something like that. And uh, but you know,

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Speaker 2: and we accepted it. I mean, you know, I can

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Speaker 2: tell stories where people kind of got the shaft a

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Speaker 2: few times that they shouldn't have. But you know, we

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Speaker 2: accepted that. You know, when you when you take an oath,

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Speaker 2: particularly to protect America, and you know, not just fly

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Speaker 2: a weapon, but employee weapons against human beings, that you

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Speaker 2: have to put yourself at a different standard. I mean,

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Speaker 2: look at it. Even just airline pilots, right they they're

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Speaker 2: allowed to drink alcohol, but they have to stop at

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Speaker 2: a certain point, and if they show up to the

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Speaker 2: gate with I think it's above point five or something

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Speaker 2: like that in their system, they're going to lose their

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Speaker 2: job for United American or whatever else. There's there's a

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Speaker 2: standard we put on everybody, and I think the founding

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Speaker 2: fathers intended a standard on politicians. I think they assumed,

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Speaker 2: and they assumed rightly for two hundred and fifty years

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Speaker 2: that politicians, you know, what would shift out, what would

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Speaker 2: sift out the bad ones, the ones without character, is

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Speaker 2: the election system, right, I mean, if somebody has no

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Speaker 2: character and it's found out, typically they lose an election.

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Speaker 2: Typically they're they're shamed. Whatever. That was the system. So well,

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Speaker 2: if you're an elected official, you don't really have a boss.

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Speaker 2: The boss is the people and the people are the

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Speaker 2: ones that can execute that punishment. What's happened, Steve, And

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Speaker 2: I know you know this well. By the way, I've

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Speaker 2: got to say to you, just because I'm thinking of it,

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Speaker 2: and I don't forget you're the You're the purveyor of

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Speaker 2: Country First, the idea of it, and the message I

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Speaker 2: know with McCain and my organization is called a Country First.

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Speaker 2: So you own that and I want to thank you

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Speaker 2: for bringing that the word and message forward from the inception.

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Speaker 2: So I want to give you credit for that supportant

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Speaker 2: but on the on the on the the character side

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Speaker 2: with leader. So what Donald Trump has done well, Okay,

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Speaker 2: what he's done well is he's convinced people that he

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Speaker 2: is a big billy badass, right that he is. He's

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Speaker 2: standing in this gap for you. When he says crazy

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Speaker 2: things on Twitter, it's not because he's crazy, it's because

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Speaker 2: he's outraged for you. And that's what people think. That's

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Speaker 2: what people have been convinced. They've been convinced that he

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Speaker 2: is tough. The truth of the matter is he's the whiniest,

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Speaker 2: littlest self absorbist, self absorbed ist, whatever that word is.

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Speaker 2: He's the most biggest, like sissy whiner. It's exhausting and

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Speaker 2: it's annoying. But he has convinced people through his anger

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Speaker 2: and his whatever, that he's this tough guy. So they

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Speaker 2: will take his character flaws and say he's got that

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Speaker 2: flawed character. Yes, but what we love about him is

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Speaker 2: he's not gonna let the left bully him into shame.

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Speaker 2: I mean, his what is it? We always says great

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Speaker 2: superpower as shamelessness, and so that's what's happened. That's what

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Speaker 2: I've been saying lately, particularly, and I put this on

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Speaker 2: substack I think today, which is look, Joe Biden. One

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Speaker 2: of the things I think he can do to take

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Speaker 2: out Donald Trump is instead of saying I'm scared to

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Speaker 2: death of him, you know, or I'm worried about democracy,

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Speaker 2: which I think we have to say, I'm not saying,

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Speaker 2: don't say that because that matters to a certain segment

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Speaker 2: of people, I think we have to start belittling him

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Speaker 2: for the narcissistic again, just weak man he really is,

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Speaker 2: because that is his superpower in the base, and I

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Speaker 2: think we have to begin to expose that. So I

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Speaker 2: think the lack of character thing just came from, you know,

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Speaker 2: people like him, People like Santos just having no shame

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Speaker 2: and saying that they have no shame in essence on

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Speaker 2: behalf of people. I mean, what do you what do

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Speaker 2: you think on it? Because that's that's what I've been

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Speaker 2: like kind of playing around with. Is this idea that

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Speaker 2: when you play him up to be this threat, that's

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Speaker 2: actually working in his favor in a certain segment.

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Speaker 1: Well, fear is a concagion and it's something that I

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Speaker 1: write about. You can go back and really, I think

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Speaker 1: look at Pope John Paul the second as a guide

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Speaker 1: in a model on his inaugural visit to Poland, which

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Speaker 1: is a visit that geopolitically sets in motion events that

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Speaker 1: within a decade contribute mightily to the fall of the

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Speaker 1: Berlin Wall. And so what does John Paul say to

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Speaker 1: confront communism in Polish to his native Poles who have

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Speaker 1: been subjugated at that point since nineteen thirty nine. What

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Speaker 1: he says to them is being not afraid in the

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Speaker 1: tradition of fearlessness. Franklin Roosevelt talked about this freedom from fear,

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Speaker 1: freedom from want, the contagion of fear, its capacity to

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Speaker 1: spread panic. So when the country he is vice president

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Speaker 1: go on the view and deliver a message that says,

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Speaker 1: I'm scared as heck. It's worrying because the moment calls

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Speaker 1: for defiance against the real threat. And so there are

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Speaker 1: two things in my view that you just hit Bingo on.

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Speaker 1: And the first one is how you fight Trump, which

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Speaker 1: is through mockery and sarcasm and belittlement and everything that

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Speaker 1: you can think of that diminishes him. But I want

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Speaker 1: to put that aside for a minute and we'll come

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Speaker 1: back to the We'll come back to the politics. But

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Speaker 1: when you look at the country, and I think you

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Speaker 1: rightly diagnose right this character change. I mean, he has

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Speaker 1: more than any male that exists in the culture. He's

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Speaker 1: the antithesist of the iconic mail of the black and

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Speaker 1: white movies we grew up with, John Wayne, Charles Bronson,

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Speaker 1: Clint Eastwood right, silent, tough, Jimmy Stewart right. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he is an appalling figure, needy, whiny, complaining, soft, evasive, dishonest, right,

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Speaker 1: every conceivable character flaw. But what does it say about

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Speaker 1: the country that they're susceptible to it? Two? What does

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Speaker 1: it say about the Democratic Party that if the election

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Speaker 1: were tomorrow, even money is Joe Biden loses the election

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Speaker 1: in him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's it's a great question. I look,

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Speaker 2: so we have to be honest about how we got

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Speaker 2: to this place, which is and I can I can

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Speaker 2: say because there's there's moments when I and I think

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Speaker 2: every man out there has felt this at some point,

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Speaker 2: which is, you know, when we talk about the value

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Speaker 2: of feminine traits, the value of women, and we have

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Speaker 2: in the last number of years pushed aside men and

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Speaker 2: said masculinity is toxic. And I'm not saying like masculine

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not it's a whole messy debate. But

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Speaker 2: what happens is if you're a white male living in

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Speaker 2: the Midwest and you get hit with these constant messages

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Speaker 2: of toxic masculinity. I mean, what was it a one

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Speaker 2: of the shaving companies Gillette put out like some one

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Speaker 2: minute ad about you know, is this the best we are?

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Speaker 2: You know, that kind of stuff. Some of that makes

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Speaker 2: sense because there is there's such thing as toxic masculinity.

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Speaker 2: Let's be clear. You see this particularly in the MAGA movement,

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Speaker 2: but there's also healthy masculinity. And I think what's happened

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Speaker 2: is over time that's been kind of pushed aside. Men

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Speaker 2: particularly have been pushed aside in people in men's mind.

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Speaker 2: It's true or not, I don't know, but they've been

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Speaker 2: pushed aside. And then somebody came along and spoke to

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Speaker 2: that fear and reflected that fear back to them. So

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Speaker 2: this is the thing about fear. Like politicians harness fear,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes it's in good ways. You know, fear of communism,

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Speaker 2: fear of unemployment, fear of you know, uh, racial and

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Speaker 2: social inequity. Those are those are true fears, and I

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Speaker 2: think a politician has to harness that. And politicians in

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Speaker 2: the past, by and large also knew that there that

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Speaker 2: power that they were harnessing came with great As Spider

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Speaker 2: Man said, great power comes great responsibility, and so I

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Speaker 2: guess it was his uncle that said that. But anyway,

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Speaker 2: you know, they understood that they had a responsibility to

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Speaker 2: use fear but then bring back optimism. When Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: came along in his toxic MAGA base, and they simply

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Speaker 2: reflect the fear that you already have in your heart

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Speaker 2: back to you, or the anger you have and say

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Speaker 2: you should be angry. Like that's how you pull people in.

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Speaker 2: That's how cults work. That's how dictatorships get built. They

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Speaker 2: create that fear. If you think about fear, everybody has fear.

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Speaker 2: There's nobody on here that doesn't have fear. We all

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Speaker 2: have fear, okay, And what we do is we try

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Speaker 2: to confront that we also have darkness in our heart,

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Speaker 2: every one of us. And every day we have a

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Speaker 2: battle in our heart between the light and the dark.

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Speaker 2: And when a leader comes along like Trump, okay, president

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Speaker 2: of High States, for God's sakes for four years, when

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Speaker 2: he comes along and he speaks back to you the

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Speaker 2: darkness in your heart, and he says, you know, your

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Speaker 2: fear of immigrants, it's real, your fear of minorities, it's real,

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Speaker 2: your fear of being excluded, it's real. When somebody with

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Speaker 2: power speaks the dark parts of your heart, it gives

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Speaker 2: you permission to let that overtake you. And as we

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Speaker 2: all know, letting the darkness overtake you is much easier

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Speaker 2: than fighting. It kills you, but it's much easier in

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Speaker 2: the moment. So I is that am I getting deep

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Speaker 2: in the weeds? Yes? Does it make sense to some

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Speaker 2: of you? Maybe not? And I'm sorry about that, but

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Speaker 2: that's the best way I can describe is there's this

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Speaker 2: there's been this like harvesting of people's fears going on

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Speaker 2: and people's darkness going on, and there's been nothing to

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Speaker 2: then root that fear into positive action. You know, we

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Speaker 2: always said this was said early on by Arthur Brooks,

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Speaker 2: who I know, you know well and I do too,

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Speaker 2: great guy, he would always say, until it was disproven

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Speaker 2: by Trump. He's like leaders, leaders do well by fighting,

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Speaker 2: but fighting up and punching on behalf of people. Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump came along and he punches down and he punches

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Speaker 2: against people. He doesn't fight for Americans. He fights Americans,

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Speaker 2: and some people like that, unfortunately, and that's grown. And

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Speaker 2: there the other big problem, Steve, is that nobody in

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Speaker 2: the Republican Party with rare exception, stands up to him.

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Speaker 2: So when he gets invited and everybody says, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's a victim, of course, then everybody that trusts these

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Speaker 2: people are going to say he's a victim. And Nikki

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Speaker 2: Haley is saying he's a victim. He's a victim, right,

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Speaker 2: And because somebody like me, Liz Cheney or you goes

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Speaker 2: out on a limb and says the truth, you can

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Speaker 2: get ostracized because that's what cults do, and it's a cult.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I wanted to ask you, and

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Speaker 1: I think this is and I want to preface this

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Speaker 1: by bussing this question. There's no judgmentalism whatsoever on my

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Speaker 1: part about it. You voted for Trump in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: right when you looked at Trump in twenty twenty, were

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Speaker 1: you driven by a party loyalty, by a gravitational pull?

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Speaker 2: You just.

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Speaker 1: Can't do it on the d side. Do you look

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Speaker 1: at Biden and just say in that moment, like I

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Speaker 1: there's no difference between the two. One of the things

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Speaker 1: that I said in September of that year, I said,

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Speaker 1: I predicted what happened happened two months before the election,

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Speaker 1: and I said when I predicted it, that we're going

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Speaker 1: to find out who will cross the rubicon with him.

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Speaker 1: It's the place from which there's no return. The denial

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Speaker 1: of an election result will spark violence. And so we

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Speaker 1: all have a moment in time. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: think that when you talked about the confrontation of darkness

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Speaker 1: and light, the way that I've talked about it in

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Speaker 1: my political career is that you're at the highest levels

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Speaker 1: of politics. You find yourself in this constant contest between

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Speaker 1: kind of cynicism and idealism. Right, the these two forces

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Speaker 1: will meet, right, You'll grapple with them. And what you

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Speaker 1: may rationalize is idealistic in a in a moment or

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Speaker 1: or not not not so transactionally bad? Right you can

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Speaker 1: you can look back on with some perspective you know,

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Speaker 1: later on and say and say wow, because all of this,

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Speaker 1: as you're involved in it is very is very, very cloistering.

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Speaker 1: But take us inside the room where you're with your

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Speaker 1: colleagues after January sixth, and it's clear and you're a

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Speaker 1: person who is in good standing in the sense that

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Speaker 1: you stayed with the party. You were critical of him transactionally,

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Speaker 1: but you say this was a coup attempt.

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Speaker 2: Mm hm, Well.

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Speaker 1: What what what happens in when when when you when

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Speaker 1: you say that inside the room to your to your

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Speaker 1: to your colleagues, what is the response to that?

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Speaker 2: So it's interesting I'll answer that, and then I want

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Speaker 2: to get back to the twenty twenty vote because I

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Speaker 2: think it's important when I say it. When I say that, look,

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Speaker 2: at the time, I'll be honest, I didn't think there

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Speaker 2: was any chance that we wouldn't wake up from that

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Speaker 2: moment any I mean, like I you know, I started

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Speaker 2: country first right after that, my my country first, not yours,

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Speaker 2: but same thing, because I was like, okay, we have

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Speaker 2: to fight to restore the GOP and and I thought,

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Speaker 2: I mean, if I had to put my money on it,

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Speaker 2: it would be this will be a winning argument because

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Speaker 2: we just had an insurrection. Right there's dead cops. And

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Speaker 2: but in hindsight, I look at it and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: you know what I saw in those eyes when I

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Speaker 2: would say to people, I'd stand up at the conference,

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Speaker 2: which is when we're all together, and I'd say, this

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Speaker 2: is BS, this was a coup attempt, this was x

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Speaker 2: y Z. We've got to move on this. We have

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Speaker 2: to impeach him, we have to do the twenty fifth Amendment.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't see disagreement in people's eyes. In fact, you'd

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Speaker 2: kind of see agreement. But I saw fear, and it

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Speaker 2: was fear and silence. The silence was okay, Adam, I

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Speaker 2: may agree with you, but I want to see where

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Speaker 2: this is going because we've been down this path before

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Speaker 2: where we took on Trump and lost. And my job

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Speaker 2: that pays one hundred and seventy four thousand dollars a year,

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Speaker 2: and I still have to pay for my place to

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Speaker 2: live in DC. For some reason, is worth it to

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Speaker 2: these people. You know, you're on the road half your life,

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Speaker 2: don't get to see your family, But for some reason,

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Speaker 2: that title, that identity is so worth it to people.

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Speaker 2: So I saw fear, but I still thought we had

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Speaker 2: a chance until three weeks later when Kevin McCarthy went

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Speaker 2: to mar A Lago and that man, I'll tell you

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Speaker 2: what on a dime, that shifted everybody. They knew it.

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Speaker 2: It's like, yep, you're right, he's gonna win. And he

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Speaker 2: won because it was predetermined. They predetermined that he was

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Speaker 2: gonna win. So he won. So that's why he's in

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Speaker 2: charge of the party. So on the twenty On the

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty vote, it's the one thing. Well, there's a

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Speaker 2: couple of things, particularly in the book I talk about

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Speaker 2: that that you know, I wish I could go back

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Speaker 2: and take back. Of course my vote in twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: is one of them, but I think it's important to

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Speaker 2: talk about why So I didn't vote for him in

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. I'm the only guy in America that didn't

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Speaker 2: vote for him in sixteen and did in twenty. But

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Speaker 2: that sixteen not voting for him vote, I think is

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Speaker 2: why I did in twenty because the pressure that came

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Speaker 2: on me for four years from my party for not

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Speaker 2: voting for him and being public about it was tough

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Speaker 2: to bear. I mean, every time I would be in

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Speaker 2: a Republican circle in my constituents, it's like they'd remind

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Speaker 2: me you didn't vote for him, You're not faithful, you're

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Speaker 2: not loyal. And I convinced myself that since I lived

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Speaker 2: in Illinois and Biden was gonna win Illinois anyway, I

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Speaker 2: didn't want to lie about who I voted for. So

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I'll just vote for him. He's gonna lose Illinois,

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Speaker 2: and I can put away this like thing about I'm

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Speaker 2: not supportive enough. But that night is when everything changed.

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Speaker 2: When he I think his first thing was a tweet

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Speaker 2: that said, like stop counting the votes or it's being

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Speaker 2: stolen or whatever it was. And that's when I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I'm off And why did I say that? Because I

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Speaker 2: have been and you know, you know foreign policy as

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Speaker 2: well as I do. I've been to many places of

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Speaker 2: struggling democracies, and I know that once you break the

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Speaker 2: faith in the system. Okay, nobody has to agree on anything.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to agree on You don't have to

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Speaker 2: agree on I mean anything. Literally, that's what actually politics

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Speaker 2: is because of we don't agree on stuff. But you

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Speaker 2: do have to agree to play by the rules in

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Speaker 2: the election. The rules are, you can vote if you're eligible.

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Speaker 2: Personally gets the most vote wins, and they get have

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Speaker 2: a certain amount of power for a certain amount of time.

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Speaker 2: That's the rules. That's it. Donald Trump convinced half of

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Speaker 2: the country, almost half of the country, that that system

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Speaker 2: was broken. And when he did that, I don't see

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Speaker 2: democracy surviving if a considerable number of Americans truly believe

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Speaker 2: the system doesn't work, because all of a sudden, now

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Speaker 2: you're voiceless in your mind in the government, and voiceless

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Speaker 2: governments get have revolutions, they have civil wars. And I

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Speaker 2: knew that this was the moment where I would have

428
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 2: to look at myself in the mirror. I had a

429
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 2: kid coming. I knew soon and I you know, look,

430
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 2: I mean, we asked nineteen twenty year olds to die

431
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 2: for their country, right, and we have to have that.

432
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 2: It's a sad reality in a fallen world, but we

433
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 2: have to have that. How effing dare I but my

434
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 2: political career above the country. If I'm asking a young

435
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 2: person to die for their country, and the people that

436
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 2: do that daily should be ashamed of themselves. And they are,

437
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 2: in my mind, disqualified from serving in office. And they

438
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 2: will someday, I hope, on their deathbed, and I hope

439
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: before that realized what traitorous garbage they are to this

440
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 2: country when we ask eighteen year olds to die, and

441
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: they'll go to these funerals and salute the flag, get

442
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: their picture taken. The congressman came to the funeral. Great

443
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: and then we need you to vote this way because

444
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 2: Donald Trump is a clear and president danger of democracy.

445
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 2: I can't do that. I'll lose my primary. Screw you, now.

446
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: One of the things that you pointed out, I saw

447
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: it on CNN and I think you should get a

448
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: medal for this. You criticized the Democrat National Committee for

449
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: attacking Governor Asa Hutchinson, who meets the standards that we

450
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: think about when we reflect on John Kennedy and profiles

451
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: encourage knew he was not going to be the Republican

452
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: but a two term governor Deputy Homeland Secretary headed a

453
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: dea serious person, accomplished person, trudged it out for the

454
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: sake of telling the truth and putting it and putting

455
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: it into the record. And he's mocked, disparaged by what

456
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: should be the hub of a political opposition, right that

457
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,239
Speaker 1: nobody dispute should be anchored by the Democratic Party. We

458
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: live in a two party system. One of them is

459
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 1: gone but needs more people than its base in order

460
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: to defeat Trump. And so when you look at the

461
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: situation electorally, as someone who's politically homeless, do you feel

462
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 1: disdain from the from the from the left, A we

463
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: don't want you as part of the coalition. Does that

464
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: worry you? Does it worry you in terms of, you know,

465
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: how they talk about you know, other parts of the country,

466
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: people in it, you know. And one of the things

467
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: I was saying to someone, you know the other day

468
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,959
Speaker 1: about some of the issues you know, around the Democratic Party,

469
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,199
Speaker 1: and it's and it's in capacities to reach you know,

470
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: certain elements of the of the electorate.

471
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 2: You know.

472
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: I started getting a lecture on what other people's economic

473
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: interests were, and I just said to them, how many

474
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: welders and plumbers and pipe fitters. Do you think work

475
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: at the Democratic National Committee, right versus versus woke ivy

476
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: league millennials who may be a bit out of touch

477
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: with that working person in in Ohio.

478
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 2: Dare I say?

479
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: But when you look at the when you look at

480
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: the political field right now and you contemplate catastrophe, you know,

481
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: with ten months to go, what is it that you see?

482
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: And specifically, I want to ask, is there anybody off

483
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: camera at CNN that you talk to who's bullish on

484
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: binding Biden winning this election?

485
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 2: Great question? I mean, first off, there are those that

486
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: are bullish on Biden and they can make a good point,

487
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 2: which is, you know, once Trump's the nominee, people will

488
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 2: be reminded about how insane he is. Like maybe there's

489
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 2: something to it. I don't know. On your bigger question, look,

490
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 2: I'll say this, I have noticed the Democrats are far

491
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 2: better at controlling their crazies. And by the way, there

492
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 2: are crazies like all you have to look at it

493
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 2: is like Hamas sympathizers and that I mean that to

494
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 2: me is unbelievable. But the Republican Party has Russian sympathizers

495
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 2: right now. I mean, for God's sakes, And there's almost

496
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 2: Hamas sympathy.

497
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: There too, because they were running who are running the party?

498
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 2: Right? Right? Yes, And that's the difference.

499
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: How many and how many nuts do you think are

500
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: in how many people do you put into Democratic Party?

501
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 2: Not basket?

502
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: What's the count? Right?

503
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 2: Is it? Is it? Is it?

504
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 3: What is it?

505
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 2: Twelve people? Yeah, I'd say that's yeah. In the in Congress, yeah,

506
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 2: well it's say it's it's your it's your, Elano Omar's

507
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 2: and you know, Rashida to Leibs and you talk to

508
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 2: Democrats and they don't like them either, and uh, they

509
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 2: don't necessarily condemned them publicly. Right, let's be clear. They

510
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: kind of do the what the Republicans did with Trump.

511
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 2: Now here's my warning, since we're doing the warning here.

512
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: My warning is this, so like what the DNC put out,

513
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 2: it was a staff hit job. And it's leadership that

514
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: the chief of staff to Joe Biden called as to

515
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 2: apologize Trump would never do that. That's leadership. My concern

516
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 2: is that there's this tempt to say, Okay, the Republicans

517
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 2: and Donald Trump do this, we have to match that

518
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 2: with this over here in the Democratic version of it. Look,

519
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 2: and I understand it, because that's the temptation they're getting

520
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: away with this. Screw them, We're going to do this. Now,

521
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 2: let me give you fair warning. It's not how you

522
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 2: win a winning coalition. But it also we need to

523
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 2: have one party that's mature. We need to have one

524
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: party that still can fight tooth and nail, but can

525
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 2: stay above the fray on some of this garbage. Now

526
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean you don't attack Trump like he attacks you.

527
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 2: You do, but like a guy who got a half

528
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 2: a percent in the primary, you're gonna celebrate him exiting

529
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 2: by making fun of him. That's dumb. And again, to

530
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 2: Biden's credit, they reached out. So in terms of how

531
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 2: do I feel in the party, Look, I just did

532
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 2: a book tour and I'll tell you my biggest fans

533
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 2: are on the left, and I appreciate it. And I've

534
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 2: realized I'm probably closer now to the Democrats on foreign

535
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 2: policy because my party's so far gone. I've rethought a

536
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 2: number of issues because you can kind of come out

537
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 2: of that tribe. But it is going to be important

538
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 2: to understand that this year is going to have to

539
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:16,719
Speaker 2: be uneasy and a gross feeling coalition of people that

540
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 2: don't agree on policy. I'm talking big stuff like abortion

541
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: or whatever. You know, how many people have you heard

542
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 2: Steve that say, yeah, you know, if you're pro life,

543
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 2: you're as big of a threat to this country as

544
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 2: Donald Trump. Okay, I've heard people say that that's not true.

545
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 2: Significant part of the country is pro life. I get it.

546
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 2: We're all passionate about abortion issues. It's not an issue

547
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 2: that really tunes me up, but whatever. But Donald Trump

548
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 2: is an existential threat, and that's why we have to

549
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 2: have this coalition. So fight Trump tooth and nail, but

550
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 2: welcome people like politically homeless, disaffected Republicans because that's how

551
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 2: you're gonna win Otherwise. I'm going to tell you the

552
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 2: concern at the you know, behind in the room at

553
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 2: CNN about people that think Joe Biden's you know, in

554
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 2: trouble is he's just not showing the fight, the vigor.

555
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 2: And you know, a lot of these Republicans are still saying,

556
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 2: like Governor Sanunu just said, for God's sakes, like I'm

557
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 2: gonna vote for Trump if he's a nominee. O great,

558
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:23,239
Speaker 2: that's cool. Gritzger my governor said the other day, you know,

559
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 2: there's no difference between Trump, Nicky Haley, and Ron DeSantis.

560
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 2: It's just if you want, you know, lifts in your

561
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 2: boots or you want high heels. Ha ha, funny. He's

562
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 2: running for president in twenty eight he's playing to the base.

563
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 2: But I'm gonna tell you, a Nicky Haley Republican is

564
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,959
Speaker 2: not a threat to the country. A Trump Republican is.

565
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 2: And we need to get that straight.

566
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: And it is a threat to the country, no, no doubt,

567
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: no doubt about it. But one of the things that

568
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: people say, and I saw it be the last question

569
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: before turnover to Lisa bring the audience in, is that

570
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: there's this talk that if Trump went that democracy goes

571
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: away like the lights go off sometime right an instant

572
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 1: afternoon on January twentieth, twenty twenty five, and that that's

573
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: not what's going to happen. We have ninety four thousand

574
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: elected governments in the United States. They all have lawyers.

575
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: This is the most sophisticated society that has ever existed

576
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: in all of all of recorded history. I'm not sure

577
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: it's killable, but I but I also don't have a

578
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: lack of imagination about the danger. But my question is

579
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: if he invokes the Insurrection Act, does the military regard

580
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: that as a lawful order to send armor out of

581
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: gates at basis into American cities? And what happens? Because

582
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: I'll be there when there's five thousand Americans in front

583
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: of the gates where the tanks roll out.

584
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 2: Man, what you're asking is a serious question, and it's

585
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 2: a serious concern. Now, how would I see that playing out?

586
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 2: Trump invokes the Insurrection Act? Inevitably, he's not just going

587
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 2: to invoke it. To invoke it, He'll have some false

588
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,280
Speaker 2: flag or you know something, some riot and some city

589
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 2: that'll allow him to do it. He could do it

590
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 2: for any reason. Really, I mean, it's a it's a

591
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 2: unique power the president has. I don't think the military

592
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 2: would disobey that order because you know, there's a lot

593
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,280
Speaker 2: of talk about, you know, the military swears and allegiance

594
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 2: to the Constitution, not to the president, which is true,

595
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 2: and for two hundred some years that's actually been a

596
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 2: huge point of and I think it's a good thing,

597
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong. But the problem is commitment to

598
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 2: the Constitution is up for debate, Like what is that?

599
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 2: So imagine Trump gives an order and imagine you have

600
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 2: a commander that disobeys that order, and then what does

601
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 2: Trump do. He can relieve the commander and find somebody

602
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 2: that believes that they are following the constitution. And then

603
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 2: every you know, private or specialist will have to make

604
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 2: a decision. Do they want to go a wall and

605
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 2: they won't. Now would they fire on American citizens? I

606
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 2: don't think so, you know. I mean the Chinese military

607
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 2: struggled to fire at Teneman Square, So I don't think

608
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 2: you'll see that. But in terms of deployment, show a

609
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 2: force things like that. You know what happens if what's

610
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 2: this completely false scenario. But hopefully Let's say Donald Trump

611
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 2: loses the election and somehow then declares himself the winner.

612
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 2: Let's say he'd have done this in twenty twenty, because

613
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,439
Speaker 2: he would have had the power of the presidency. The

614
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 2: Supreme Court could shoot him down and say, no, you're

615
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,959
Speaker 2: not the president. He refuses to leave the White House,

616
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 2: say Donald Trump could go on the air and say

617
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 2: to every member of serving in the military, you know

618
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 2: you need to disobey your commanders if they're stopping you.

619
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 2: You made a commitment to the constitution. The Constitution declares

620
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 2: that I'm legally elected, you are on my side. Or conversely,

621
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 2: if Donald Trump is running and loses and claims it

622
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 2: was a false election, I could see him getting on

623
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: TV and telling the military the elections being stolen from me.

624
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: You need to disobey orders, you need to defect, you

625
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 2: need to come over to our side. Is it crazy?

626
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 2: Kind of is it realistic? It is, sadly, and that's

627
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 2: a concern I have. The military is only as good

628
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 2: as the people in it, and people are being convinced

629
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 2: that the Constitution is something that it's not or it's

630
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 2: not something that it is, and so yeah, take it seriously,

631
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 2: and you know, I worry about that.

632
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 1: Do you think do you think that JP Pritzker or

633
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: Gavin Newso have the spine and wherewithal to operate in

634
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: a situation like that, For example, the president federalized is

635
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: Illinois National Guard troops, the governor of the state says,

636
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: belay that to his adjucent in general, it's an illegal

637
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: and unconstitutional order. And in fact, if federal troops come

638
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 1: into Illinois, arrest them.

639
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you could see something like that happening

640
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 2: in that kind of a scenario, and in theory, you know,

641
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 2: in theory the National Guard once it's federalized, if they

642
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 2: disobey the order to be federalized, and now they're they're

643
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 2: technically in violation of the Constitution or the commander in

644
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 2: chief and you're now in an essence open rebellion at

645
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 2: that point. So I don't know how that goes, but

646
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 2: it's unique. I mean, keep in mind the entire name

647
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,240
Speaker 2: and I'm a National guardsman. The entire Guard is funded

648
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 2: by the federal government. So it's a militia, yes, but

649
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 2: it's a militia that was never built to disobey the

650
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: federal government. It was it was built to be under control,

651
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 2: and I think rightly. But I could also see the president,

652
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 2: for instance, federalizing blue or red states, depending on what

653
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 2: that president is about. I mean, you saw this in

654
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 2: the border when you know Gnome, Christy Nome, who's a

655
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 2: huge disappointment, you know, sent her guard to the border

656
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: because she's a red state and literally only red states

657
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 2: were going to the border, and to their discredit, blue states,

658
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 2: we're choosing not to go to the border, which is

659
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 2: also annoying. But yeah, you can start seeing the Guard

660
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 2: playing in the politics role. I just saw some tag

661
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 2: or some leader of the National Guard in Alabama resigned

662
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 2: because of the vaccine stuff. It's like, I really think

663
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 2: he probably got a job at United Airlines and wanted

664
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,720
Speaker 2: to go out this way because he'll still get his pension.

665
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 2: But that's the kind of crap we're going to start seeing.

666
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: And with that turn it over to you, Lisa.

667
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 3: Thank you. So first question for you, Congressman, how do

668
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 3: you convince people close to you who are still Trump

669
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 3: supporters about the dangers of him being re elected?

670
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 2: You know, it's a great question, and look, I'll say this,

671
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 2: you probably can't. I mean, ultimately, they're going to have

672
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 2: to convince themselves.

673
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:28,479
Speaker 1: I mean, look, they're they're stupid.

674
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 2: I just I mean I saw yesterday Jamie Diamond, CEO

675
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 2: of Visit JP Morgan or City Bank whatever, one of

676
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 2: the big bank guys, JP Morgan. He came out and said, basically,

677
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 2: Trump's right about NATO. Trump this Trump like praising Trump.

678
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 2: And I'm like sitting here shocked, and I'm realizing probably

679
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 2: he's trying to cover himself too, because he's It's it's

680
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 2: like a dictator when when the dictator takes control of

681
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:55,959
Speaker 2: everybody's trying to kiss his butt. So they don't get

682
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 2: you know, hit. But I think with famly in friends,

683
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: it's like, look, there is real benefit in just showing

684
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 2: love to people and trying to do it outside of

685
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 2: the politics thing. They're misled. They have to come to

686
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 2: that realization on their own. If you look up stuff

687
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,240
Speaker 2: about how to deprogram cult members, I think it's actually

688
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 2: very applicable here, and so that would be my advice

689
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 2: is just try to love them, try to stay away

690
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 2: from the politics. Stay out of it. By the way,

691
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 2: stay out of a toxic relationship. There's a lot of

692
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 2: toxicity in this. You don't need that, so you don't

693
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 2: have to make up with somebody like that. I had

694
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 2: half my family on my dad's side disown me, and

695
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 2: I have no desire to make up with them. I've

696
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 2: forgiven them for myself, but I have no desire to

697
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 2: make up with them. So I think that's it. Otherwise,

698
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 2: if you do get into an argument, try to be respectful,

699
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 2: listen to them, because when people feel heard, they'll listen

700
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 2: to you. That would be my suggestion.

701
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 3: And you know, recognizing that it's probably unrealistic to change

702
00:41:55,040 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 3: maga Republicans' views, what about those Republicans who are only

703
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 3: supporting him because he's a Republican, right.

704
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 2: And this is there's a lot of people like this.

705
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 2: Here's the interesting thing politics. You know, twenty years ago,

706
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 2: actually nobody really gave a crap what your politics was.

707
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 2: I mean, I had neighbors that were Democrats, and I

708
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 2: never even we'd make fun of each other jokingly because

709
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 2: they'd put out like a Clinton sign and we'd have

710
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 2: a Bush sign out or whatever, you know, but it

711
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 2: didn't lead to any broken relationships. It was just kind

712
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 2: of a fun rivalry. What's happened is we've made our

713
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 2: politics a tribal identity. It's an identity. It used to be.

714
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 2: Our identity used to be I'm an American. You know,

715
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 2: we're fighting the Russians, or we're fighting al Qaeda or whatever.

716
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 2: But we don't have that right now. And our identity

717
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: is I'm a Republican, or I'm a Democrat, or for

718
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 2: half of the country right now, including myself, I'm politically homeless,

719
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 2: I'm independent. And so Republicans have to feel free to

720
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 2: break from that identity. You know. It's I think part

721
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 2: of it is understanding that democrats or independence are not evil, right,

722
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 2: That's one thing I learned even on my trip. I

723
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 2: never thought Democrats were evil. I want to be clear

724
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 2: about that. But like when I was doing my book tour,

725
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 2: Democrats were so nice to me, and I realized they

726
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,240
Speaker 2: love the Constitution. I realized they do want a strong

727
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 2: American military, which I was always convinced that Democrats just

728
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 2: wanted to surrender everywhere, everywhere in the world. And that's

729
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 2: a big driving force for me as American stream. So

730
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 2: I think this is a good advice to fellow Democrats

731
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,720
Speaker 2: on here is if you have a Republican that fits

732
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 2: that category, welcome them, you know, let them know they'll

733
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 2: welcome into a different identity or try to get people

734
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 2: healthy and not you know, find their identity in politics.

735
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 2: For God's sakes, making a friend based on what they

736
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 2: believe politically is actually the stupidest way to make a friend.

737
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 2: I like drinking beer with people. I don't give a

738
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 2: rats backside of what your politics is unless you're a

739
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 2: hardcore Trumper, and then I really don't want to be

740
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 2: around you. But that's this person.

741
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 3: I'm going to ask both of you this question, but Steve,

742
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,839
Speaker 3: i'll get you to answer first. Do you think that

743
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 3: the former Republican Party can and will be resurrected once again.

744
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: I go back and forth on this question. Right at

745
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: some level, it's too big to fail. It's the third

746
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: oldest political party in the world. Democratic Party is the oldest.

747
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: I think that the party that is in more grave

748
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 1: danger of not surviving is the Democratic Party. I don't

749
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: think that there's enough conversation that contemplates what happens if

750
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: Donald Trump becomes the forty seventh president of the United States.

751
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: For sure, it will break up the two party system

752
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: because no one who claims to be an authority in

753
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party, there will be no authority. No one

754
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: will have any moral authority whatsoever, because they will have

755
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: all defended really the acclamation of an eighty two year

756
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: old candidate who goes on to lose the Trump despite

757
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: all the warnings. And what it will do is it

758
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: will create a third party movement. I mean, there will

759
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,800
Speaker 1: be a third party candidate on the ballot in twenty

760
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 1: twenty eight, like full on from the beginning. I'll be

761
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 1: part of that effort if it if it came to that,

762
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 1: you know. But the Republican Party right right now is

763
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: the home to a malevolence that has always existed in

764
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: American life. It has transited back and forth between the parties.

765
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: Manifested itself in something called the Confederacy, in something called

766
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:09,399
Speaker 1: the Booned, and something called the ku Klux Klan, and

767
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: something called white nationalism. And I think that force will

768
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 1: never be extinguished. Our great grandchildren will be dealing with it.

769
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 1: The big mistake of my career politically was a belief,

770
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: I think, born in the era that I came of

771
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: agent born in nineteen seventy thirty years old at the millennia,

772
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: and it was this notion that history was over, the

773
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: contest had ended, liberal democracies had prevailed, and we were

774
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: at the edge. We were at the edge of the

775
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: just society, really unlimited progress, a technological utopianism, an optimism

776
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 1: around technology, and it's all turned to dust. And so

777
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 1: I think that there is a constant battle that is

778
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:17,919
Speaker 1: always being fought, always has been fought, and always will

779
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: be fought. And we're in a cycle right now where

780
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: we're very very close to losing something fundamental and important

781
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 1: because of apathy and for a lot of different reasons.

782
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: And so I'm not sure either of these parties survive.

783
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: Maybe both survive, Maybe we're at the moment of breakage.

784
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 1: I just but but my instinct tells me that it

785
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: that it is all dependent on the outcome of this election.

786
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I agree with literally everything you said.

787
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 2: There's there and it's not just because we're the mutual

788
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 2: admiration society here. I just I truly believe everything you said.

789
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 2: And by the way, I'll also say, while you were talking,

790
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 2: I'm looking at some of the people on this and

791
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 2: just like it is heartening to me and I'm move

792
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 2: that almost emotionally, just to see so many of you

793
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 2: interested in this and sharing our concerns. Because I'll tell you,

794
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 2: and I'm sure Steve's felt this before, and I'm sure

795
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,280
Speaker 2: many of you have. Sometimes you feel isolated and alone,

796
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 2: and sometimes you wonder am I getting it wrong? Because

797
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 2: so many people are crazy, And just seeing many of

798
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 2: your faces has been encouraging because I'm sure you share

799
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 2: a lot of the same feelings. I just want to

800
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 2: thank you for that. But without repeating what you said,

801
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 2: I'll just add a couple of points. Number One, inherent structure,

802
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 2: so that the structure that's built into the election system

803
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 2: that advantages Republicans and Democrats in the two party system

804
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 2: is massive. To get on the ballot as a Republican

805
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 2: in Illinois, I needed eight hundred petition signatures if I

806
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 2: would have won, and I'd consider this. At one point,

807
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 2: I didn't really want to stay in Congress. I did

808
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 2: twelve years. I was done anyway, even without January sixth,

809
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,879
Speaker 2: But I was dealing with do I want to run

810
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 2: again just to prove it? And you know, you deal

811
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 2: with those issues, and one of the things I looked

812
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 2: at is do I want to run as an independent?

813
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll just I'll quit the Republican Party and run

814
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 2: as an independent. Eight hundred petition signatures to get on

815
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 2: the ballot as a Republican, something like ten thousand to

816
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:27,760
Speaker 2: get on as an independent. And by the way, everybody

817
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 2: that signed as the ten thousand, which is impossible, by

818
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 2: the way, but they could have none of them could

819
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 2: have ever voted in a Republican or Democratic primary. So

820
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 2: now you have to get lower propensity voters that have

821
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 2: never voted in a primary. You need ten thousand of them.

822
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 2: You actually need twenty thousand because they're going to challenge

823
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 2: your petition signatures. The point is the structure is so

824
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:49,879
Speaker 2: inherently unfair that I think the idea of a third

825
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 2: party movement is possible because there's going to be enough

826
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 2: people that feel politically unrepresented in twenty twenty eight that

827
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,320
Speaker 2: they will come together and break that kind of monopoly

828
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 2: that's going on. But that said, the only point, the

829
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 2: point of optimism I'm going to throw out there that

830
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 2: there's a possibility is that twenty twenty eight could be

831
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:12,720
Speaker 2: and I doubt I do think it depends on twenty

832
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 2: twenty four. To an extent, twenty twenty eight could be

833
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,839
Speaker 2: actually the beginning of a new American century because there's

834
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 2: going to be a lot of new energy. And if

835
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 2: there is energy in the GOP that is not Nazi,

836
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 2: and they can somehow win, and they can you know,

837
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 2: like political movements come in waves and you don't know

838
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 2: they happen until they're over. Like it's like why we

839
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 2: were all shocked the day after the election in twenty sixteen.

840
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 2: I think there's a real hunger in America for optimism,

841
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 2: let's say Ronald Reagan or in Obama in terms of

842
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 2: how they speak, and if somebody can come along and

843
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 2: grasp that, that may change the trajectory. But otherwise I

844
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,320
Speaker 2: agree with Steve it's going to be dangerous. I believe

845
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 2: that this. I now understand the what role the brown

846
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 2: Shirts played in the Nazi Party, for instance, which I

847
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 2: never understood until about eight years ago. I understand how

848
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 2: that worked now because it's happening in our system in

849
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 2: the GOP.

850
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 3: So I love the optimism around twenty eight. You both

851
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 3: referenced the possibility of third party in twenty eight. Let's

852
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 3: go talk about twenty four and no Labels. Do you believe, Congressman,

853
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:26,240
Speaker 3: that no Labels helps or hinders Trump?

854
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 2: We know. I struggle with this because, on the one hand,

855
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 2: I generally believe that everybody should have a candidate that

856
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 2: they want to vote for. But I also know, Look,

857
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 2: here's the reality. No Labels cannot become president because all

858
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 2: you have to know is how our system works. Let's

859
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 2: it's Joe Manchin. Let's say he wins ten states, which

860
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 2: is almost unthinkable. But let's say he wins ten states.

861
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,760
Speaker 2: What does that do? Only thing that does is deny

862
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 2: two hundred and seventy votes to anybody in the electoral College,

863
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 2: which then sends it to the House to vote on

864
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 2: who the president is. I don't see any way any

865
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 2: candidate gets two hundred and seventy vote electoral votes with

866
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 2: no labels right now, I actually think third party movements

867
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:12,359
Speaker 2: need to start in Congress. They actually need to start

868
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 2: on the elections that nobody pays attention to, which is

869
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 2: part of the reason that haven't ever really gotten taken off,

870
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 2: because you need to have members in Congress that can

871
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 2: cut deals then or actually effect an electoral college outcome

872
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 2: if you have a third party running. But again, I'm

873
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 2: sympathetic to the fact that everybody should have somebody they

874
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 2: want to vote for, and it feels like this year

875
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 2: is not going to be that, So I'm I would

876
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 2: I think it's going to hurt Biden more than it

877
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 2: hurts Trump. But I also have heard a good case

878
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 2: that it hurts Trump too, because you know, all these

879
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 2: Republicans that are kind of defaulting back to Trump because

880
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 2: they have nowhere else to go. Maybe this will pull them,

881
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 2: But I just don't know if that breaks that identity.

882
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 3: Longressman, last question for you, and then I'm going to

883
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 3: turn it over to Steve to wrap up. You talked

884
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:03,320
Speaker 3: about the fact that you had already decided before January

885
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 3: sixth not to run for reelection, So what do you

886
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:10,959
Speaker 3: see as your future. Would you ever consider re entering politics.

887
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 2: So if you'd have asked me a year ago, would

888
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 2: you ever get back into politics, I would have told

889
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 2: you no, because I mean, look at the last two

890
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 2: years of my time in Congress was really brutal. And

891
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 2: I mean imagine, imagine really like even your friends in

892
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 2: the house that are they don't want to be seen

893
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 2: talking to you on the floor because they're afraid that's

894
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 2: going to get out. Right. And I didn't realize the

895
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 2: toilet took until about summer of this year. I was

896
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 2: it really had hit me what damage it did, and

897
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 2: that I had to recover from that. I needed to

898
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 2: work through that, and I think I'm in a good

899
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:48,240
Speaker 2: spot now. But I you know, I live in Texas now,

900
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 2: and you know my brain Republican is not very good here,

901
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:56,720
Speaker 2: not very strong. But I would be open to running

902
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 2: again now. I mean that that energy's coming back, but

903
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 2: it's not an It's weird because it's it's for the

904
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 2: first time. It's not really an energy because I want

905
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 2: to be somebody. You know, when I ran for Congress,

906
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 2: like I did it for the right reason, but I

907
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 2: I might you know, ego is a huge part of

908
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 2: that I wanted to be a congressman. This is like,

909
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 2: it's more. The thing that excites me is this idea

910
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 2: of like being on if I ran for president in

911
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 2: twenty eight, for instance, like being on the stage and

912
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 2: just being free to say whatever I want and not

913
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 2: have to be nicky Hayley, trying to be all things

914
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 2: to all people, and just representing a section of people

915
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 2: that just feel like there's nobody speaking for them, and

916
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 2: a generation of people that feel like there is nobody

917
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:44,319
Speaker 2: that's coming up with new ideas. We talk about income inequality.

918
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 2: We've raised taxes, and we've cut taxes, we still have

919
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,839
Speaker 2: income and equality. Something else will work. I don't know

920
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 2: what it is, but somebody has the answer. We need

921
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,319
Speaker 2: all of that new energy to come forward, and I

922
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 2: think if we can get if if it takes me

923
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 2: to help harness that energy, I could see myself running

924
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 2: again in that case. But I don't have a grand plan.

925
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 2: I'm not sitting around plotting and planning. But I am

926
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:15,359
Speaker 2: really excited about like this idea, I just without being

927
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 2: able to explain due to the very like I just

928
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 2: feel like we need to break the entire political system

929
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 2: and remake it. I feel like we need to break,

930
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:26,800
Speaker 2: not remake it into something we need a democracy in

931
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 2: a republic, but break how we think about things like abortion,

932
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,399
Speaker 2: which I'm going to bring up. It's not pro life

933
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,760
Speaker 2: against pro choice. There's actually one hundred different viewpoints on abortion.

934
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:40,399
Speaker 2: It's actually one hundred different viewpoints on guns. We've been

935
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 2: programmed by the man, by the matrix to believe everything

936
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 2: has two sides. It doesn't like everything has one hundred sides.

937
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 2: How do we harness that and not just have to

938
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 2: belong to a party that we have to fit into

939
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 2: this box and anymore, we just be independent and we

940
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 2: do what we want to do, and we let politics

941
00:55:58,040 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 2: work how it should. That's my answer.

942
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 3: So I feel like there needs to be a second

943
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 3: edition of this conversation, yeah, about breaking the system and

944
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 3: how to rebuild. So Steve, I will turn things over

945
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 3: to you. Right.

946
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: Let me thank you Lisa, and thank you everybody for

947
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: getting on tonight and for participating, and thank you to Adam.

948
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: And let me just say in closing that it's just

949
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 1: not true that there are no exceptional public servants. There

950
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:37,840
Speaker 1: are a lot of them, and you've got to spend

951
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 1: an hour with one of them through his military service,

952
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:47,399
Speaker 1: his congressional service, and you know what will be more

953
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: chapters of public service ahead. What I would say to

954
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: everybody tonight about this moment and to remember, is that

955
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 1: we live in a very resilient country that has been

956
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 1: tested many, many times and has survived many hours of

957
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: doubt and faithlessness and dark knights, and the dawn has

958
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 1: always broken in the United States, And that courage and

959
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 1: honor and valor and all of the worthy virtues, though unreported,

960
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 1: are still very much present in our country and therefore

961
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: adjacent to our politics. So it's going to be a

962
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: wild ten months. I encourage everybody to go read Adam's autobiography, Renegade,

963
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 1: to follow Adam Kinzigger on substack, and you can catch

964
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 1: him on CNN where he is one of the ablest

965
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: political commentators out there on the circuit today. But until

966
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 1: next time, every buddy, thank you very much, Thank you guys,

967
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 1: Thank you