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Speaker 1: Oh, love, love, love, love to talk about food. Tonight's

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Speaker 1: classic episode is a little Heroid. You might not want

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Speaker 1: to eat while you're listening, depending on what you're eating.

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Speaker 2: Well, actually, you know, let's play a game. Go ahead

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Speaker 2: and just make yourself a meal, whatever it is, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter. Before you even press play after the reposit,

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Speaker 2: I guess, make a meal and then come back to

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Speaker 2: this and.

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Speaker 3: Thus both bogignon. Perhaps well, who knows.

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Speaker 2: Let's see what you're eating and if it's described inside here.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, a grab basket or perhaps, if you will,

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Speaker 1: a bread basket of several terrifying things you.

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Speaker 4: Just ate, from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies.

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Speaker 4: History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back

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Speaker 4: now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my

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Speaker 2: name is Nola.

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Speaker 1: They called me Ben. We are joined with our super producer.

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Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are here. You are you, and that

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Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Did

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Speaker 1: you guys happen to grab lunch today?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I grabbed it double fisted.

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Speaker 1: Well, not to pry, but what did you have for

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Speaker 1: lunch today?

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Speaker 2: Some delicious sausage.

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Speaker 1: Just that, just sausage, just like a pile of sausage.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I threw it on a fire and then I

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Speaker 2: just grabbed it with my bare hands off the fire

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Speaker 2: and just ate upon it.

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Speaker 3: You must have some real calloused hands, Yes, classic Matt.

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Speaker 2: And there asbestos.

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Speaker 3: What about you know? I had some lemon pepper chicken

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Speaker 3: breast that I prepared this morning, mixed with a nice

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Speaker 3: root vegetable medley that I had left over from a

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Speaker 3: few nights prior. It was delightful.

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Speaker 2: Blue Apron dot Com now promo coat.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay them myself?

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Speaker 2: Whoa with your skills? Talk to you by bl Apron.

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Speaker 1: And the Gordon Ramsey master Glass And as a Checkers

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Speaker 1: says in there as Checkers is a fast food chain

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Speaker 1: here for people outside of the United States, as Checkers

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Speaker 1: is wont to say you gotta eat?

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Speaker 3: Is that Checkers? But then they follow it up with

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Speaker 3: you gotta eat Checkers? Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: There's an implication not to be Dennis Reynolds about it,

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Speaker 1: but it remains true. And food is one of the

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Speaker 1: great unineteen factors of our species. We can't agree on much,

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Speaker 1: but we can't agree that we should all probably eat something.

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Speaker 1: And nowadays it seems like a few times a year

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Speaker 1: we'll hear about a food scandal. It's so not that

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Speaker 1: it's common, but it's frequent enough not to be astounding

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Speaker 1: every time it happens. There's like horse meat in some

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Speaker 1: pies in the UK or something.

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Speaker 2: You know, yeah, or the spinach has been contaminated with

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Speaker 2: this or the other in its preparation process.

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Speaker 3: And in as much as it is a thing across

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Speaker 3: our entire species, just the very word taste implies such

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Speaker 3: a specificity of preference to food, and we use that

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Speaker 3: word to talk about any kind of preference for all things. So,

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Speaker 3: you know, yes, food very universal but also very particular. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 3: And there are also cases of recalled yogurt, both in

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Speaker 3: both senses of the word cases. I recall the yogurt

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Speaker 3: I had none the different kind of you're talking about spoiled,

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Speaker 3: contaminated yogurt that gets forcibly removed from the market.

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Speaker 1: Right right, Yes, of course, And we'll also inevitably hear

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Speaker 1: pop science studies that come out right that have a

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Speaker 1: very alarmist, almost web md tone to them. You know,

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Speaker 1: recent studies show that coffee is tremendously good. Oh no, weight,

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Speaker 1: bad for you? Oh no weight, it's good again, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly like butter is another thing we hear about.

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Speaker 2: Or sugar, and they kind of intertwine, and one of

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Speaker 2: them is giving you cancer and the other one is

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Speaker 2: saving your life.

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Speaker 1: And when you add up all these complaints and these studies,

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Speaker 1: these contradictory opinions or perspectives, it becomes alarmingly and surprisingly

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Speaker 1: easy to think that the world is going to hell

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Speaker 1: in a hand basket, or should I say a bread basket?

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Speaker 3: Sh what is a bread basket? Like a cornucopia?

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Speaker 1: I've seen, you know, I always thinking of the same

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Speaker 1: thing with a bread box. They're literally just a whole bread.

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Speaker 3: Sort of an outdated thing too. I don't think people

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Speaker 3: keep their bread in boxes typically anymore more in plastic

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Speaker 3: in the cabinet.

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Speaker 2: My parents totally have a wooden bread box.

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Speaker 3: They don't keep bread in to do that.

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Speaker 2: Yes they do, they do, yep, and all kinds of

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say egg mcmuffins, but that's not a thing.

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Speaker 3: You have clearly gone that. I know, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: it's true.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it true that bread will tend to go stale

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Speaker 1: more quickly in a refrigerator. That's that's something I had heard. Also,

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Speaker 1: I would love it if we kept bread the way

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Speaker 1: that Bond super villains keep a cat, like it was

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Speaker 1: just on their armchair and they would pet it while

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Speaker 1: they talked to you.

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Speaker 3: Like a nice baghette that you had just like tucked

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Speaker 3: under your arm and you pet it like a creature.

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Speaker 3: Life hack. If you buy a baguette and you eat

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Speaker 3: half of it and you don't want it to go stale,

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Speaker 3: put it in the freezer, and in the next day

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Speaker 3: put it directly in the oven. It is fresh and

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Speaker 3: crispy as can be. Just putting that out there, life

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Speaker 3: has been hacked.

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Speaker 1: Life has indeed been hacked in begetts and more. And

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Speaker 1: regardless of what we hear about, you know, the dirty

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Speaker 1: yogurt industry or contaminated meat, the truth of the matter

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Speaker 1: is that at least here in the United States, things

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Speaker 1: in general are safer than they have been in the past.

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Speaker 1: You can go into a grocery store nowadays and you

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Speaker 1: can buy a can of what spam, a can of

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Speaker 1: you know, tuna. I'm thinking of things that seem weird

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Speaker 1: to be in cans, and you have a pretty high

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Speaker 1: likelihood of not dying immediately, which is amazing.

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Speaker 3: What about deviled ham? How do you guys feel about

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Speaker 3: deviled ham?

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Speaker 2: Honestly, I don't even really know what it is.

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Speaker 3: I think it's kind of like spam, but it's just

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Speaker 3: canned ham and it's got a little devil with a

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Speaker 3: pitchfork on it. To me, that says stay away.

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Speaker 1: I love the idea of deviled being a process. And

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Speaker 1: I think we talked before, I don't know it was

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Speaker 1: on air or off, about what is it to devil something?

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Speaker 3: To be devil it?

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Speaker 2: In my mind, when you devil something, you take out

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Speaker 2: a portion of it, you mix it up, you like,

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Speaker 2: grind it all up, and then you put it back

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Speaker 2: onto a part that has not been ground up, like

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Speaker 2: if you devil an egg.

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Speaker 3: Sure, there we go.

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Speaker 2: So maybe the ham is a portion of it has

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Speaker 2: been ground up to pieces and then put back with

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Speaker 2: the rest of the ham. And as I back out, yeah, babybird.

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Speaker 1: Style, I feel like we're onto something. And the good

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Speaker 1: news is that regardless of the way something is for here,

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Speaker 1: at least in the United States and in many other countries,

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Speaker 1: there is some sort of organization that supervises and regulates

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Speaker 1: the quality of these food products. This was not always

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Speaker 1: the case. In fact, the reason we have the FDA

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Speaker 1: today is thinks in large part to a imperfect fellow

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Speaker 1: named Harvey Wiley. It's true, And Ben, you and I

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Speaker 1: actually did an episode about mister Wiley, doctor Wiley. Dare

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Speaker 1: I say, I think he was an MD, so we'll

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Speaker 1: call him doctor Wiley. Yeah, for our other show, Ridiculous History,

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Speaker 1: And we talked about his poison squad, which was a

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Speaker 1: thing that he assembled, a study made up of some

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Speaker 1: very iron gutted fellows who volunteered to be poisoned on

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Speaker 1: purpose effectively. Yes, and Matt, you were talking with us

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Speaker 1: about this off.

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Speaker 2: Air, right, Yeah, there's a quotation about there were twelve

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Speaker 2: younger guys who would they would go to this kitchen

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Speaker 2: where foods would be prepared for them in with increasing

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Speaker 2: doses of food additives, stuff that later on we would

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Speaker 2: know you do not want to put in your foods.

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Speaker 2: But at the time, something like borax was added to

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Speaker 2: foods just because it was a food additive.

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Speaker 3: To increase the yield or something.

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Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. A lot of times they were for preservation,

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Speaker 2: to keep the foods fresh longer. But you know this, gentleman,

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Speaker 2: Harvey Harvey Wiley realized that perhaps some of these are very,

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Speaker 2: very dangerous, and they illustrated it perfectly by giving these

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Speaker 2: increased doses until the subjects would just get awfully sick.

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Speaker 2: And they realized that that's the threshold.

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Speaker 1: Oh there we are, yeah, after the fact, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Oh that's how much boor ax is too much? Bore

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Speaker 1: axe Well, Harvey Wiley. As you can learn in depth

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Speaker 1: in our episode on Ridiculous History, Harvey Wiley was a

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Speaker 1: man on a mission, and ultimately his work led to

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Speaker 1: a passage of law in nineteen oh six that eventually

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Speaker 1: led to the FDA.

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Speaker 3: Today.

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Speaker 1: They're tasked with determining safety standards for food manufactured in,

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Speaker 1: grown in, or imported to the US overall, as well

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Speaker 1: as some exportation since it would be grown or created here.

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Speaker 1: We live in a divisive political age, but one thing

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Speaker 1: that's beautiful about this idea, if not this organization, is

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Speaker 1: that everyone can agree it's it's a good thing to

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Speaker 1: try to keep fingers and meat packing factories attached to

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Speaker 1: the hands they came in with instead of in you know,

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Speaker 1: your next can of deviled ham.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's not to say that there aren't conspiracy

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Speaker 2: theories about the FDA and what they may or may

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Speaker 2: not be doing ad lee and programs, and that we've

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Speaker 2: covered before on the show, and if you're interested, you

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Speaker 2: can look up some of our stuff on GMOs. And

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Speaker 2: there's several other.

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Speaker 1: Topic brominated vegetable oil.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and whether or not the you know, the conspiracy

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Speaker 2: theories around whether or not the FDA is purposefully trying

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Speaker 2: to get some of these things into our diet. But

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Speaker 2: you know, that's for another.

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Speaker 3: Day, and we're gonna look at both sides of that

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Speaker 3: in a little bit. But before we do, why don't

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Speaker 3: we kind of give a little rundown of some of

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Speaker 3: the facts.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, So let's look at the scale of the FDA first,

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Speaker 1: the Food and Drug Administration. They are a huge deal.

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Speaker 1: Some estimates report that twenty cents out of every single

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Speaker 1: dollar American spend goes toward a product that has been

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Speaker 1: supervised or regulated by the FDA. And we're talking one

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Speaker 1: trillion dollars in goods.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: I got to the grocery store like five times a week.

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Speaker 3: I like to do little shops, so I definitely am

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Speaker 3: part of this trend.

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Speaker 1: And here's the hilarious thing about an entity with so

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Speaker 1: much power that has such an ubiquitous effect right on

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Speaker 1: consumers and on organizations. As Matt said, the FDA is

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Speaker 1: often roundly criticized, but it's criticized in such a strange way.

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Speaker 1: It's often accused of both over regulation and at the

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Speaker 1: same time under regulation, doing way too much and doing

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Speaker 1: not near enough. Constantly, it's constantly accused of these things.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and you imagine that there's one administration one,

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Speaker 2: I mean, a very large group of human beings that

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Speaker 2: are working at it, but they're they're covering, like you said,

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Speaker 2: a whole host of different products, from drugs to food.

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Speaker 2: That's a lot of things.

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Speaker 3: Man, I mean one trillion dollars in goods. That's a

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Speaker 3: lot of goods. I mean each one of those. You know,

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Speaker 3: some might be less than a dollar, like a like

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Speaker 3: a particular piece of produce, but you know, a lot

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Speaker 3: of packet stuff it's like five or six bucks. We're

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Speaker 3: talking about millions and millions and millions of individual items

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Speaker 3: of food that this one organization is responsible for ensuring

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Speaker 3: that we are not getting poisoned by.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love that you point that out too,

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Speaker 1: because we are counting things that are less than a dollar,

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Speaker 1: everything from a single grape, if you if you buy

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Speaker 1: a single grape, if you're at that point, a kiwi,

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Speaker 1: a kiwi. There's probably a better example to the you know,

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Speaker 1: to some very high end seafood or something. Sure, let's

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Speaker 1: look at the idea of overregulation. When people talk about

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Speaker 1: the FDA overregulating stuff, they're talking usually about what they

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Speaker 1: see as some sort of unfair censorship in.

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Speaker 3: Terms of the language used in advertising a product exactly.

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Speaker 1: So take dietary supplements. We've all seen the infomercials. You know,

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Speaker 1: my life was a dumpster fire, and still I started

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Speaker 1: taking fish oil eight times a day, or you.

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Speaker 3: Know, I'm making that example up.

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Speaker 1: Those products fall smack dab in the middle of the

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Speaker 1: Venn diagram between food and drugs.

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Speaker 2: Almost a drug, almost a food, but not quite either.

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Speaker 1: Which is the slogan for Matt's new herbal supplement company, Right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not quite food or a drug.

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Speaker 3: Medicaps.

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Speaker 1: Medicaps I like that, the fine makers of mat mints.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So the advocates of the supplement industry, people hoisting

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Speaker 2: all kinds of vitamins at you. They'll argue that the

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Speaker 2: FDA prevents manufacturers from making claims about the effectiveness of

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Speaker 2: a product even when research, they say, proves the benefits

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Speaker 2: are genuine. But you're you're talking about such a range

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Speaker 2: here of things that a supplement can supposedly do, because

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Speaker 2: you can still find things occasionally that will claim to

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Speaker 2: cure cancer, and it will be a supplement of an

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Speaker 2: extract of a certain fruit or a berry or something.

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Speaker 2: And you know, when you still can have things like that,

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Speaker 2: my opinion is that you need to have something regulating it. Say,

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Speaker 2: you know, you can't say that this will let you

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Speaker 2: be able to fly.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 2: That's probably a bad idea, right.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's also I mean, how is saying something with

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Speaker 1: cure cancer any different?

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Speaker 2: Correct?

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Speaker 1: People on the other side would argue, yeah, that's that's

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Speaker 1: a great point, because we have to ask why this

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Speaker 1: comes about. It's because, as far as the FDA is concerned, legally,

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Speaker 1: dietary supplements, whether they are purported cancer cures, it's spider man,

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Speaker 1: B twelve, fish oil, whatever you want, regardless, they're considered foods,

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Speaker 1: which means their makers can only create limited claims about

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Speaker 1: the structure or function. And specifically, to Matt's point, they

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Speaker 1: cannot claim that any supplement can prevent, cure, or mitigate

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Speaker 1: disease or condition, regardless of what kind of scientific literature

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Speaker 1: they find or pay for regarding those abilities.

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Speaker 3: And I mean, through our various shows that we do

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Speaker 3: here at how stuff works, we've encountered advertisers that have

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Speaker 3: very specific language in the copy that they give you,

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Speaker 3: where it says you cannot say this UK, you have

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Speaker 3: to say this. This is the part you.

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Speaker 2: Have to read.

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Speaker 3: And we know that from things like medications on television

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Speaker 3: that have those litany of side effects and things that

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Speaker 3: are clearly regulated by law, that they have to rattle

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Speaker 3: that off or else who would do it right, because

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Speaker 3: it's just totally derailed the experience of watching that delight

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Speaker 3: full scene of a young child and then her mother

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Speaker 3: frolicking through a field of green grass and being pushed

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Speaker 3: on a swing set or something.

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Speaker 1: What's that old trope and stock images and stock footage

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Speaker 1: lady eating a salad alone and laughing. Now you will

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Speaker 1: not be able to unsee that. But it's also I'm

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Speaker 1: really glad we brought this up because, believe it or not,

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Speaker 1: residents of the United States, those strange, very vague as

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Speaker 1: nul said, pharmaceutical ads that we see on television are

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Speaker 1: illegal in most other developed countries.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, even having billboards for any kind of drug is

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Speaker 2: illegal in a lot of places, but advertising of any kind.

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Speaker 1: And that lends credence to the idea that the pharmaceutical

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Speaker 1: industry in the United States has a massive amount of control.

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Speaker 1: This is something that even members of Congress take issue with.

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Speaker 1: So a critic who would say that the FDA is

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Speaker 1: sensorine dietary supplement manufacturers would be someone like Ron Paul.

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Speaker 1: He says that this stuff comes about because the FDA

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Speaker 1: is in bed with the pharmaceutical companies. They don't want

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Speaker 1: you to know that, you know, Saint John's wart can

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Speaker 1: cure your brain fever. I'm just gonna make up a

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Speaker 1: disease your your gutter hand. On November tenth, two thousand

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Speaker 1: and five, Ron Paul introduced something called the Health Freedom

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Speaker 1: Protection Act HR four two eighty two, which he argues

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Speaker 1: would prevent the FDA from censoring truthful claims about the curative, mitigative,

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Speaker 1: or preventative effects of dietary supplements. He said this would

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Speaker 1: also adopt the Federal Court's suggested use of disclaimers as

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Speaker 1: an alternative to straight up censorship. So in this case

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Speaker 1: of censorship or overregulation, people who believe it also believe

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Speaker 1: there's an active conspiracy afoot by big pharma to prevent

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Speaker 1: people from knowing that their food can be their medicine,

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Speaker 1: which is something you hear a lot if you're a

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Speaker 1: fan of dead Press and other alternative hip hop. But

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Speaker 1: what about the other side of the argument, What about

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Speaker 1: the people who say the FDA is not doing near enough?

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Speaker 1: For people who believe that the FDA underregulates food, the

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Speaker 1: agency is a wash in corruption, a lack of oversight,

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Speaker 1: and at times purposeful railroading a valuable medical research.

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Speaker 2: Oh so, what kind of stuff are we talking about here?

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Speaker 3: We'll hold your horses, buddy. We'll get right into that

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Speaker 3: after a quick ad break.

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Speaker 2: So, the United States, despite being a massive developed country,

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Speaker 2: permits multiple food additives that are generally acknowledged throughout the

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Speaker 2: rest of the world as either unhealthy or dangerous in

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Speaker 2: some way.

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Speaker 3: Remember earlier when we were talking about advertising of pharmaceuticals

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Speaker 3: and billboards and stuff. How that's illegal in a lot

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Speaker 3: of other countries. Very similar case here. Why is this?

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Speaker 1: That is the crux of the questions, so it might

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Speaker 1: be surprising for people who've traveled to the US from

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Speaker 1: another country to notice the change in food. If you're

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Speaker 1: a redditor, if you lurk on Reddit, then you'll read

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00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,399
Speaker 1: things that people from other countries visiting the US have

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Speaker 1: written about regarding what confused them or what surprised them

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Speaker 1: for the good or the bad, when they visited this country.

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Speaker 1: And one of the top things they always mention is

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Speaker 1: the food. They say, it's delicious, the portions are way

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Speaker 1: too big. Why is there such an abundance, a plethora,

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Speaker 1: an over abundance of food? And then later why is

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Speaker 1: so much of this stuff so bad for people like

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Speaker 1: for the in specifics, we have multiple specific examples of dangerous, scary,

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Speaker 1: or even terrifying things that you might have just eaten earlier,

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Speaker 1: this week or today, you might be eating now as

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Speaker 1: you listen to this podcast and pet your bag hat

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Speaker 1: on your arm on your armchair. One of the one

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Speaker 1: of the big examples that's familiar to a lot of

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Speaker 1: people would be food coloring. Right, food coloring you see

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Speaker 1: it in candy a lot.

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Speaker 2: And sodas and a lot of just manufactured foods.

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Speaker 1: And whereas some chemicals have their entire name printed out.

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Speaker 1: A lot of food coloring just has a description of

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Speaker 1: the color and a number, right, like yellow number five.

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Speaker 3: It's one better than yellow number four.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yellow number five is a very strange one. Do

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Speaker 2: you guys remember the rumors of yellow number five in

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00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,960
Speaker 2: Mountain dew right when you were growing up? Did you

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Speaker 2: tell you this? There was a rumor that was always

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Speaker 2: at my school, at least before the internets, that yellow

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Speaker 2: five food coloring would reduce your sperm count.

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Speaker 3: I was gonna say, shrink your peepy.

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Speaker 2: And mess with your downstair in various ways. The rumors

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Speaker 2: were different throughout.

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Speaker 3: And that's with your Australia huh.

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00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:11,119
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, the old downstairs. But it goes back to

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Speaker 2: some real things. In nineteen seventy five, this guy named

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Speaker 2: Ben Finegeld, who he was working at, I believe, the

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Speaker 2: medical the Kaiser Permanente Medical Center. He mentioned that this

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Speaker 2: and other food dies may cause hyperactivity in children, or

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Speaker 2: he proposed this idea at least, and there were studies

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Speaker 2: that rebuted this claim. There were some studies that showed

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Speaker 2: perhaps there was some truth to this claim. And it's

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Speaker 2: that same situation that I think we've been in for

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Speaker 2: a long time where depending on how you interpret data

378
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Speaker 2: from something or data from something less study like this,

379
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Speaker 2: you can make it lean one way or the other.

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Speaker 1: Really, I mean, that makes sense, and that's a dangerous

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Speaker 1: thing we always run into. That's why you always want

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Speaker 1: to be careful when you hear nutrition advice. You want

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Speaker 1: to see not only is this from a nutritionist? Wait

384
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Speaker 1: what school did this nutritionist go to?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 2: None?

387
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,200
Speaker 3: Only that, Like, people who write studies are all about

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00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 3: numbers and data, and when you package that up and

389
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 3: put it in a press release, you are editorializing said

390
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 3: data and you are giving it weight with language, and

391
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:16,920
Speaker 3: that it's not really how it was intended to be read.

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Speaker 3: Maybe there's an abstract that gives you, like a basic

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00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 3: rundown of the findings of the study. But it's like

394
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Speaker 3: when you start taking movie reviews out of context, you know,

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Speaker 3: I mean, it becomes a whole ball of.

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Speaker 2: Wax, except in this case it's your health rather than

397
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,199
Speaker 2: just if your eyes enjoyed something or.

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Speaker 1: Not true true. And this point is so incredibly important.

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Speaker 1: We would add to it too that another question is

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Speaker 1: who paid for the study? Because the scientists are typically

401
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:48,639
Speaker 1: not out there working entirely for free. In the case

402
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 1: of coloring agents, we should point out that they do

403
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 1: play an important role, especially if there's competition in a

404
00:21:56,040 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 1: grocery store, because most, not all, but a lot of

405
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: the food that we eat has an artificial color so

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00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,359
Speaker 1: that it adheres to our idea of what that food

407
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,160
Speaker 1: should look like, as as it was presented in a

408
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 1: Norman Rockwell painting or in a commercial. And this explains

409
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:21,360
Speaker 1: why artificial dyes have increased, like the use of artificial

410
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 1: dies has increased fivefold since the mid nineteen fifties. It's

411
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: like the idea of margarine being colored yellow. Margarine in

412
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 1: its untreated form is.

413
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 3: White, but people expect it to be yellow because it's

414
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 3: meant to be like a butter substitute. And there's a

415
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 3: whole other story there about how margarine was maligned by

416
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 3: the butter industry because it was seen as competition, unfair

417
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 3: competition because it was cheaper. But it just goes to

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00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,399
Speaker 3: show that we it matters to us as consumers what

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00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 3: color something is.

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Speaker 2: I still have an aversion to margarine just because of

421
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 2: growing up hearing stories about Oh, don't eat margarine.

422
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 3: What really? Yeah, well, you're from a red box community.

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00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, but my parents always only stock margarine at their house.

424
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 2: Really yeah, I mean in margarine house. Yeah, margarine house. Dude.

425
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,880
Speaker 2: My wife's Cuban family is like, what is margarine? Get

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00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 2: that out of here.

427
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 3: Why are you doing this to us, Matthew.

428
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 2: And I said, I love you and I will vie

429
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Speaker 2: with you forever, because real butter is the way to go.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so we see this, We see this fight

431
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 1: between additives between food impersonators, right, and today, most artificial

432
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: colors that you're going to find in use are actually

433
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,360
Speaker 1: made from coal tar. This is the same stuff that

434
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 1: seal coats products to protect the shine of industrial floors.

435
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: You can see it in headline shampoo as well because

436
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: it kills lice.

437
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

438
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, great thing called indigo teen I think is what

439
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 2: they call it. That's the blue number one or two

440
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 2: number two, I.

441
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 3: Believe, uh huh.

442
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 2: Just good stuff, really good stuff.

443
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 1: And there's there's another specific example which I know a

444
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,159
Speaker 1: lot of people are waiting for us to mention, and

445
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 1: it's the use of antibiotics in livestock. This regardless of

446
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: whether you're a vegetarian or you're a person who just

447
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: wants to eat a live cow, every day for the

448
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 1: rest of your life, which is a lot of beef.

449
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 1: We can say that there are compelling studies indicating the

450
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: dangers of using antibiotics in livestock. This is used in

451
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 1: the pork industry as well as the beef industry, and

452
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: one of the concerns there is that this could somehow

453
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 1: lead to the creation of a superbug. I think we

454
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: mentioned this later in Superbug episode, because doctors have been

455
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: historically over prescribing antibiotics to human patients and there's much

456
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 1: less regulation in the world of non human patience.

457
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 3: Dude, as you can probably tell, I have a cold

458
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 3: right now. If I went to my doctor today with

459
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 3: this cold, would give me a Z pack and send

460
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 3: me out the door. They do every time. I have

461
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 3: a medicine cabinet full of these because I never take them,

462
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 3: because they never actually fix the problem. And that is

463
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 3: like a systemic cultural thing. It's weird.

464
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 2: Well, then, when you talk about factory farming and just

465
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: the closeness of all the animals and everything, you're giving

466
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 2: antibiotics many times to animals as a preventative so they

467
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 2: don't get sick, which is a whole other just issue.

468
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: And now in the European Union, the use of antibiotics

469
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: has been drastically phased down or out country by country.

470
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 1: I think Sweden bannedit back in nineteen eighty six. You

471
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: can still see it in use in some other countries

472
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 1: after that, but they were making phase out plans, you know,

473
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: to take it down to like sixty percent of our

474
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: current antibiotic use. And yeah, the preventative thing mainly mainly

475
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: concerns people because it could essentially be like a tough

476
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: love camp for bacteria.

477
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's You're exactly right.

478
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: In sharp stark contrast, eighty percent of antibiotics sold in

479
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: the United States are used on livestock, not only Wow.

480
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 2: Wow, that's incredible, especially since it's becoming more and more

481
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 2: popular to buy non antibiotic meat, or at least it's

482
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 2: growing a little bit. I'm not saying it's ubiquitous.

483
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,959
Speaker 3: Growing as fast as those cows on the hormones, though,

484
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 3: are they.

485
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's the whole thing. We have so many

486
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 2: human beings in this country and throughout the world that

487
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 2: you've got to provide food for them. So how do

488
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 2: you do that. You have to make sure you have

489
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 2: enough healthy you know, in this case, cattle or chickens

490
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 2: or pigs or whatever, and you have to make sure

491
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: they're growing as fast as possible.

492
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 3: There's a really interesting film on Netflix called Okja. It's

493
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 3: about the breeding of these super pigs and how that

494
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 3: enters into this kind of like near future kind of

495
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 3: dystopian society where this is part of the food production cycle.

496
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 3: But you start to see they kind of pitch it

497
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,959
Speaker 3: as this like delightful thing where this little girl grows,

498
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 3: raises the best super pig that's the most friendly and

499
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 3: the largest or whatever. And then at the end of

500
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 3: the day you start to see the behind the curtain

501
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 3: stuff how this sol enters into this like factory farming,

502
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 3: meat market that's all incredibly dark. It's a really really

503
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 3: cool film. If you haven't seen it, have not, but

504
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 3: I will.

505
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah it should and he's right about it going dark.

506
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 3: Do be warned. Yeah.

507
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 1: So yeah, while we're while we're here in this hypothetical farm, right,

508
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: let's look at the hormones, the growth hormones that I

509
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: think we were mentioning here. These synthetic growth hormones like

510
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: rBGH rBST were approved for use in cows by the

511
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: FDA way back in nineteen ninety three. This did not

512
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: fly in other countries, and, at the risk of sounding dismissive,

513
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: us to ask, where's the beef? I know these are

514
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: all gonna be clunkers today.

515
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 2: Well, well, the issue here is that not only do

516
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 2: these cows, the ones that are injected with these hormones, suffer,

517
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 2: they suffer from significant health problems, some of which then

518
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 2: get treated by guess what, administering those antibiotics to the

519
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 2: cows that then get sick. There are also birth defects

520
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 2: that these cattle have to deal with due to the hormones.

521
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 2: And the products, the products for human consumption that include

522
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 2: r BGH and rBST, they do not need to be

523
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 2: labeled as being used. Now, a lot of companies will

524
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 2: say on their packaging, you know these are hormone free

525
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 2: or antibiotic free or something like that. If you'll find

526
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: milk or sometimes cheeses, all that kind of stuff, those products,

527
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 2: you'll find that. But if it doesn't say it, you

528
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 2: kind of just have to hope that it's not being used.

529
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: There's a bit of a I don't want to say

530
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: a rant, but I have a position on this.

531
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 3: Which is entirely my opinion.

532
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: We know, for a long time that people had been

533
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: worried about possible dangers from consuming things that had genetically

534
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: modified organisms in them or GMOs, right, And there are

535
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: similar concerns about consuming something that consuming meat from an

536
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: animal that was given these growth hormones. And on the

537
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: other side, there would be people who consider themselves skeptical

538
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: of any dangers there, and they would say stuff like, well,

539
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: quite a few of the agricultural products that we know

540
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: and love today are if you go back far enough,

541
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: genetically modified organisms. Corn didn't start as corn. People made

542
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: it into corn by breeding it. And then they would say,

543
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: you know, also, if there's no hard proof that a

544
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: growth hormone will injure you if you eat it, then

545
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: why do we need to label it? But I feel

546
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: like that's unnecessarily I don't know, I feel like that's

547
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: getting the wrong part of the argument, because if it's

548
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: not harmful, the opposite is true, then why have a

549
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: law against labeling it as such?

550
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 3: But don't you think that those foods that don't expressly

551
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 3: say these were not used almost definitely have these hormones

552
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 3: in them.

553
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: It feels like that would be the assumption now.

554
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 3: Right, because it's like a premium. You're paying a premium

555
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 3: for products that don't have these things because these are

556
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 3: things that up your yield and allow you to get

557
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 3: more bang for your bucks. So logic would dictate that

558
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 3: the ones that cost a little more can't yield quite

559
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 3: as much. They have to like charge a little bit

560
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 3: more because they're not using these things that up there yield.

561
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 3: So I would you know, I just think if if

562
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 3: it doesn't say it, then it probably hasn't.

563
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 2: We need to call kay Risdahl and get marketplace on this.

564
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: Kay, Yeah, maybe we should. Maybe we should call me.

565
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: He keeps a very different schedule from our own.

566
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 2: Very true.

567
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,479
Speaker 3: I forget about Kyle. Let's call Ira. Ira will get

568
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:05,239
Speaker 3: to the bottom of this.

569
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: Ooh oh, Actually he might just tell us to do

570
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: it for a segment that's true, which I am totally

571
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: fine with. If you are listening to the European Commission

572
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: banned hormones in livestock in nineteen eighty one due to

573
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: some of these concerns, and Noel, I think you raised.

574
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: I think that's a really good point. I think it's

575
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: a fair assumption to say that if it doesn't specifically

576
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: bill itself as organic hormone free, et cetera. Free, then

577
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: you should just assume that it does have something in there.

578
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 3: Right. Well, it's like if I buy a product and

579
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 3: it's made of plastic and it costs eight dollars, I'm

580
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 3: not going to be surprised if it breaks in two days.

581
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 3: So if I want to buy a really nice coffee machine,

582
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 3: say for example, and you get it and it's like

583
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 3: made of machine steel and it's going to cost a

584
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 3: couple hundred bucks, probably, but if I get one that's

585
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 3: like ten bucks, I shouldn't be surprised that it's a

586
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 3: piece of crap because I paid ten dollars for it.

587
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 3: It's the same with meat. If I'm like getting a

588
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,959
Speaker 3: steak that costs two dollars, it's probably a crap steak.

589
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: I mean, unless you know the guy.

590
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe it's a deal man.

591
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 3: Speaking of knowing the guy, though, when I used to

592
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 3: live in Athens, Georgia, there's farmers' markets all over the

593
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 3: place and you could go buy beef straight from local farmers. So,

594
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 3: I mean, I know that seems obvious, but if you

595
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 3: have access to that, that's the way to go. Because

596
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 3: it's not it's a little pricey, but it's not that

597
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 3: much more expensive and you know where it's coming from.

598
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: Well, it's also yeah, it is a question of affordability too.

599
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 3: Because.

600
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: When we hear about when we hear about the benefits

601
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: of healthy living, especially where diet is concerned, one thing

602
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: that we often run into will be the inarguable fact

603
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: that some people cannot afford to you know, they could

604
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: not afford the premium at a farmer's market or whatever.

605
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: And you know, vegetarians vegans in the auto. It will

606
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: make a very good point, which is that you can

607
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: live in it with a reasonable budget without consuit. You

608
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: can cut out meat, live in a reasonable budget and

609
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: eat fresh food all the time. It just takes preparation

610
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: and I think that's something that stops a lot of people.

611
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: The United States is not a very preparation oriented society

612
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: when it comes to food.

613
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 2: It also takes mental fortitude, just got to say to

614
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 2: make a big change like that.

615
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 3: And one last thing I do only get on a soapbox.

616
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 3: And in Georgia at least at a lot of farmers markets,

617
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 3: there's a program that will give you double your snap

618
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 3: Snap programbt EBT. It will give you double the value

619
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 3: for spending those tokens you convert them to tokens at

620
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 3: a kiosk, and you get double the value of those

621
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 3: that you would give the grocery store for going to

622
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 3: the farmers market.

623
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 2: So that whoa, that'ssible thing.

624
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: And check to see if your state or community has

625
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: something like that. If this is a concern to you.

626
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: While you're checking this out, also check the back of

627
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: labels for cereal bread products you buy because it might

628
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: contained something called ASO dicarbonamide or ada.

629
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 2: ASO di carbonamide. This is also known as the yoga

630
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,720
Speaker 2: mate chemical. Yeah, you're gonna find this in commercially based

631
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 2: bread and in yoga mats. Makes sense, right, But Matt,

632
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 2: yoga mats aren't a food. Well, they can be just

633
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 2: add butter, not margarine butter. Don't eat your yoga mats.

634
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 1: I want to point out that if you practiced yoga technically,

635
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: you would be a yoga mat. Oh wow, I am

636
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: really not thanks to really swinging and miss in on

637
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: this on these jokes today.

638
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 3: I thought that was over the fence, my friend.

639
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good.

640
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, thank you. Uh So what does this do, Matt.

641
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 2: Well, it's an additive that was a whitening agent. It

642
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 2: was also a dough conditioner, and it's something that the

643
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 2: FDA considers safe for food uses, including cereal flour and

644
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 2: bread dough. Now here's the deal. Does bread need this

645
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 2: chemical to taste good? Nope, not at all.

646
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: So this is more for a textual quality or for

647
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,240
Speaker 1: an appearance or cosmetic quality.

648
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a textural experience.

649
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 3: It would make your bread more bread like the Yeah.

650
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 2: The striations when it's when it's a what do they

651
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 2: call it, after it's sat for a while, proven, after

652
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 2: the dough has proved, proved, and then when you bake it,

653
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 2: then I'm assuming this chemical gives you that just the

654
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: striations that are nice.

655
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 3: Without actually having to do the work.

656
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is banned in Europe.

657
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: Right, Oh, yeah, totally banned in Europe. But it's found

658
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: in almost five hundred common American grocery store and chain

659
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 2: restaurant foods. And that's, of course, despite the World Health

660
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 2: Organization linking this chemical to potential you know, diseases. It's

661
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 2: a carcinogen they call it, and it could lead to

662
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 2: cancer to several other things.

663
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 3: But despite being legal, a lot of big fast food

664
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 3: chains have taken notice and action as well.

665
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: Right, right, right, Subway phased out the ingredient in twenty

666
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: fourteen because the public found out. It caught on and

667
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: the public was saying, what's all this ada and the

668
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 1: sandwich bread?

669
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 3: That was when I first heard about yoga Matt bread

670
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:18,760
Speaker 3: was because of the Subway kerfuffle.

671
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then Subway had a couple other kerfuffles right

672
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 2: after that.

673
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 3: We would have to talk about this.

674
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: That's a different topic, different episode.

675
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

676
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: And also chains like Wendy's and McDonald's took steps to

677
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: remove ada from their supply. And as we record today,

678
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 1: despite the controversy, is no pointed out. It remains legal

679
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 1: in the United States. So you may have eaten it today,

680
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 1: you may be eating it currently. But what's another example,

681
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: which I think i'd safely say is if not Matt

682
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: Knowles one of my favorite examples. We'll get to it

683
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsor.

684
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 2: Here.

685
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 3: It is.

686
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: This part of the show is going to be a

687
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: little bit juvenile. We're talking about potato chips or pootato chips,

688
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 1: hola one, my friend, yes, diarrhea.

689
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 2: Chips, very brown hole in one.

690
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: It's all thanks to something that was named one of

691
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: the fifty worst inventions by Time magazine and approved by

692
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: the FDA. It's a substance called olestra, a calorie free,

693
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: fat free, cholesterol free chemical that removes the need for

694
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:33,720
Speaker 1: cooking oil and all the fatty umami goodness it brings

695
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 1: with it, but still has a flavor similar to foods

696
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 1: like chips and fries.

697
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll find e lestra in diet versions of all

698
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 2: kinds of food products, including chips, frozen yogurts, and plenty others.

699
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,240
Speaker 2: And if it sounds too good to be true, that's

700
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 2: because it most definitely certainly. Oh my god, is they.

701
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 3: Had to call it irono lestra because it makes you

702
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 3: more hungry. It's supposed to like be a diet thing,

703
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:00,720
Speaker 3: but it actually makes you more hungry.

704
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I would say it is because it seems

705
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: deliberately contrary to what was expected.

706
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:07,919
Speaker 3: Right.

707
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 1: It's it's like uh, buying a seat belt that is

708
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: that you know, kills you.

709
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 3: It's like the o Henry of foods. There we go.

710
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: It's like the Shyamalan of snacks exactly.

711
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 2: It's like rain on your wedding day, you know what

712
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 2: I mean?

713
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 3: There we go?

714
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: We got there, don't I feel like we got to?

715
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 3: We got to reference.

716
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: Yes, olestra around olestra. Why what's the hubbub with this stuff?

717
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 3: Well, in addition to actually being a appetite increaser, it

718
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 3: has been linked to gastro intestinal disease in children and

719
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 3: terrible awful, horrible, no good, very bad bouts of diarrhea

720
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 3: and grown adults.

721
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you, if you feel the need to

722
00:38:54,760 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: personally investigate this, just uh go find some chip. I'm

723
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: sure you can find someone with that ingredient because it's

724
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: illegal in the United States, and give yourself a few

725
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: hours off.

726
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Yeah, go home first, it's

727
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 3: research research.

728
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 2: You'll probably see it listed as olean, which is like

729
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 2: the brand name. You might even see a Lestra somewhere.

730
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 2: Probably in American foods, you'll find Oleen.

731
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 1: You will not find it in Canada or Europe, however,

732
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: because that's where it is banned. What else you might

733
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: be thinking? What else at this time? What other terrifying

734
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 1: things did I have on my plate when I sat

735
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: down and said I'm going to listen to this podcast

736
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: while well, I have a nash One of them could

737
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 1: be arsenic.

738
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, straight up poison like old.

739
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: Lace arsenic and old lace like that.

740
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:48,720
Speaker 3: Stuff.

741
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 1: It's so famous and mystery novels of yesteryear. It's still

742
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: allowed in small levels in chicken feed here in the US,

743
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: not in the European Union.

744
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 3: It's actually such an effective poison in those days of

745
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 3: yestream because they didn't actually a test for it, and

746
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:05,439
Speaker 3: that didn't come until much later.

747
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and here's the thing. When you have arsenic and

748
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,800
Speaker 2: chicken feed, it gets in those chickens. A pesky, pesky

749
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 2: thing about chicken feed gets into the chickens, and then

750
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 2: the chickens somehow get into you and then elp, there's

751
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,439
Speaker 2: arsenic in you. That's not good.

752
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: And the FDA, for their for their part, stresses that

753
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 1: the amount of arsenic involved is too tiny to be

754
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: dangerous to people who eat chicken. A lot of this

755
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: has been exaggerated on the internet. It's not as if

756
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: someone just tried to kill a bunch of chickens, found

757
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: out they loved arsenic and said, hey, we've got a

758
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: good thing going.

759
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

760
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 1: It goes back to a It goes back to a

761
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: substance called rocks or stone, which is made by Pfizer.

762
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 1: And they announced that they would discontinue the sale of

763
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: the additive but at the at the time this was

764
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: still a This was still a very controversial thing. In

765
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: two thousand and eleven, the FDA announced that Pfizer, through

766
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: its subsidiary Alpharma, voluntarily suspended the sale of this stuff,

767
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: which was also called three nitro, because of an FDA

768
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: study that detected inorganic arsenic at higher level, specifically in

769
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: the livers of chickens.

770
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 3: Did you say three nitro? Three nitro? That sounds like

771
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 3: some sort of like fruity malt beverage, like four loco.

772
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 1: I feel like it sounds like a great nickname for someone.

773
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: I'm really into nicknames now that have specific numbers.

774
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 3: I really like three nitro.

775
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: Well, maybe that could be Maybe we should do you

776
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 1: think Paul would let us call it three nitro? Paul

777
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 1: three nitro decand yeah, super producer, Paul, three nitro, three

778
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: dog nitro.

779
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 2: Here we go, oh dig it.

780
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: And then the the list of these additives, it goes

781
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: on and on and on. There are going to be

782
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: several that we don't have time to mention today. One

783
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:12,439
Speaker 1: example would be that shiny coating on apples short name

784
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: is DPA that is also banned in other countries but

785
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 1: available here in the us.

786
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 2: And make sure you wash your apples.

787
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: Make sure you wash your apples.

788
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 3: You know, not naturally shiny like that like when the

789
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 3: teacher shines it up on their pant.

790
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:28,399
Speaker 1: That person was wearing DPA. Oh, God's naughty. It looked

791
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: like I know, it looked like fabric, but they were

792
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: dp ants that were.

793
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 4: Oh.

794
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: As we search for a DP answer to the U

795
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: to the controversies around the surrounding the FDA, what we

796
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: learn is that these are just some of the common

797
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: contaminants or additives if you prefer that you might have

798
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: eaten recently. And this leads people to larger concerns. Not

799
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: just folks we would describe as health nuts, but people

800
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: who are just you know, see themselves as reasonable.

801
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 2: Right.

802
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: They might splurge on a on a huge steak now

803
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: and then, but usually they're like three square meals day,

804
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 1: couple of snacks, right. Even people who don't consider themselves

805
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:15,839
Speaker 1: health nuts often believe that the FDA may be too

806
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 1: closely related to the industries it is meant to oversee.

807
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 2: No, say it ain't so you know, you can say

808
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 2: it as many times as you want to on a

809
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 2: podcast like this. There is a revolving door between private

810
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 2: industry and government regulators, and it just I don't know

811
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 2: how you close it, because it revolves. You can't close it,

812
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: and it's just going to exist.

813
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:42,760
Speaker 1: Before nineteen ninety two, the FDA was as you would expect,

814
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: fully regulated and mainly funded by the US government. However,

815
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety two, Congress passed the Prescription Drug User

816
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: Fee Acts or PADUFA. I knew you'd like that one,

817
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 1: making the pharmacy industry much less like a force or

818
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: a sphere of business to be overseen and much more

819
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,800
Speaker 1: like a client for whom the FDA was performing a service.

820
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 3: Anyone who's ever worked as a freelancer knows what you

821
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 3: do to a client. You work tirelessly to make them

822
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 3: happy so that they'll pay you.

823
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and critics of this situation, this post nineteen ninety

824
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: two situations, say that now the FDA is is screwing

825
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: up left and right, and their general their general just

826
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: to their argument is that the FDA should be considering

827
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 1: the public, the US public and the health of the

828
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: US public as its primary client, not the industries. And

829
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: to be completely clear, this enters the realm of the

830
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: drug industry and the FDA there's more money involved there.

831
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: We also know that the FDA has been pursuing special

832
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: relationships with media outlets. In twenty sixteen, there was an

833
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: article in Scientific American where an author named Charles C.

834
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: Pointed out that the FDA was doing this move where

835
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: they would offer to give some media outlets early scoops

836
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: on a story, with the condition being that the FDA

837
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: got to choose who these journalists talked to about it afterwards.

838
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: So like, if Matt is doing a story for what

839
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: news outlet do you work for?

840
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,240
Speaker 3: Matt? Pr Okay?

841
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 1: So PRI, Matt works for PRI, and he goes to

842
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 1: the FDA, who will be played by Noel done this

843
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: role here I am, and they in Noel being the

844
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: FDA gives Matt being PRI the scoop, and then Matt

845
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:59,720
Speaker 1: attempts to go to someone who disagrees with the FDA

846
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 1: That could be either Paul or me, depending on how

847
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: we want to do the casting, and then fundamentally violates

848
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 1: a legal precept. PRIs huge trouble. Matt might get fired,

849
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: and pr I would get blacklisted from these other reports

850
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 1: until they became public knowledge.

851
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 3: You guys, I'm having a kind of a kaiser. So

852
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 3: moment here FDA, pri I three letters are they the

853
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 3: same thing?

854
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: It's a food DePree, ABC, NBC, HSW. No one is safe,

855
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: no one, No one is safe. And wait, all of

856
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: our initials are three letters.

857
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 2: Kaiser, But what about std WYTK.

858
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 3: We're the loan outlier, the loan outlier.

859
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: The name sounded unwieldy, but finally, several years in, you

860
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 1: know why we.

861
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 3: Chose that approach.

862
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 1: So additionally, you know you can see reports where scientists

863
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: during the Barack Obama presidential administration we're begging the government

864
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 1: to prevent managers at the FDA and other industry insiders

865
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: from forcing the spin data or suppress results. So, in conclusion, yes,

866
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: there is a chance that you are eating things that

867
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 1: the rest of the world considers dangerous, unhealthy, and possibly

868
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 1: in some extreme cases, terrifying. It also seems that, whether

869
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: you ascribe to one particularly conspiracy or another, something fishy

870
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: seems to be happening at the FDA, and more and

871
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: more people are asking is the FDA looking out for

872
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: you or is it looking out for an industry.

873
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, the cynics, I would say, probably myself included, are

874
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 2: really starting to view the FDA and a lot of

875
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 2: other regulatory groups and administrations within the United States government

876
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 2: as just a part part of the game that you

877
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 2: have to play if you want to be a part

878
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 2: of an industry, whether it's food or drugs or arms

879
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 2: or you know, whatever, name your industry and your regulatory body.

880
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 2: They seem to be more of gatekeepers than anything else.

881
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 3: Agreed.

882
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 2: Oh and then last thing, it's just just knowing that Europe,

883
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 2: most of Europe, and a lot of other countries say

884
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 2: no to most of the things that we listed out today.

885
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,320
Speaker 2: It just it really does make you worry.

886
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 3: Well, when I went to Europe for the first time,

887
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,800
Speaker 3: the thing that surprised me was that they have breasts

888
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 3: and they're advertising here. That's where we draw the line.

889
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,240
Speaker 3: But yoga, matt chemicals and our bread Aoka, buddy.

890
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 1: That's a good point, it's true. But no nipples, No,

891
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: no nipples. There's still a hard no in the United States.

892
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: Poor choice of words.

893
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 3: That's good.

894
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: So we hope that you enjoyed this episode. We're oh

895
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: scratching the surface and pointing out the contrast between what

896
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,280
Speaker 1: one government considers fine and dandy and another government considers

897
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:12,760
Speaker 1: dangerous and troubling. However, this does not end our show.

898
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 1: It's time for a very special corner. Okay, guys, you

899
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: know how on shout out corner we usually do a

900
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: couple of emails, right, sure, Okay, Well I found I

901
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: found something that's a little different.

902
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 3: I hope you like it.

903
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: This is going to be a surprise for all four

904
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 1: of us, and I've been hiding it behind my back

905
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 1: the entire time we've been recording. We got a package. Whoa,

906
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 1: so this comes to us from Nathan su and you

907
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:48,399
Speaker 1: taped it up really well.

908
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 2: It's about the size of a CD container. Yeah, you

909
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,879
Speaker 2: want to describe it compact disc container, but it is. Oh,

910
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,839
Speaker 2: it's got that packing tape all over it. I am

911
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 2: seeing what appears to be a disc maybe or hold on.

912
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, dude, I think it's full of government secrets.

913
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 3: I don't know.

914
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 2: Let's let's pull one of these out.

915
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: Earlier, when I said there was a surprise, Noel, you

916
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:13,240
Speaker 1: had asked me if it was like a poisonous chemical additive.

917
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 3: I said, I don't know.

918
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 2: What is it matter gonna to pass this around? It is?

919
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 2: It appears to be a disc. I think it is.

920
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 2: I can't open it right now, but its titled Missouri

921
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 2: Loves Company presents let Concert Infernal EP.

922
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 3: It appears to be some sort of heavy metal record,

923
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 3: not the kinds of things that would poison your food,

924
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 3: but the rock variety. We've got a track list that's

925
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:40,280
Speaker 3: the Concert Infernel EP, Scandal in Weight, Misery, Loves Company,

926
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 3: Borderline Obsessives, Hounds and Shepherds and may Day. So we're

927
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 3: gonna you know, I don't I don't know if I

928
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,320
Speaker 3: have a way to play this. We have three copies,

929
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 3: though I'm streaming in vinyl only today these days, guys, I.

930
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 2: Can listen to this in my car on the way home.

931
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 2: That's what I'm gonna do.

932
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 3: All right, Well, you report back on the next episode.

933
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, So this was a surprise out of the

934
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: blue for us, and we're going to check it out.

935
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: I think I also am going to listen to this

936
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,280
Speaker 1: sine car. I need some good road music. I'm driving

937
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,720
Speaker 1: around doing some completely non shady things.

938
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 3: After this, I want to play on my PS four

939
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 3: right yeah, yeah.

940
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 2: Oh, hey, we have a note you guys.

941
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 1: Oh please, yes, read it. We're supposed to. I was

942
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: hoping for a.

943
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 2: Note, Nathan says Ben Matt Nol. Hey, guys, I just

944
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 2: wanted to say that I'm a big fan of the show.

945
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 2: It keeps my skeptic side nice and aware that things

946
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 2: aren't always as they appear. I've sent a few of

947
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 2: my band's EPs to say thanks. I know Nol is

948
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,720
Speaker 2: a musician and Ben and Matt have some good taste,

949
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 2: so I hope you dudes enjoy. By the way, I'm

950
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 2: a musician too.

951
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 3: That's a horrible taste.

952
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, whatever, you get.

953
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: It right, dude, Nathan says.

954
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 2: It's just a little di y c D. But it's

955
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 2: the least I could do for the hours of free

956
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 2: entertainment you guys have given me. We should have an

957
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 2: LP done this year, so if you like the tunes,

958
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 2: we can send that when it's all done too. Keep

959
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 2: up the good work and keep shining a light on

960
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 2: this stuff. They don't want you to know, Well.

961
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 3: Maybe we can.

962
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 2: You know what we should do.

963
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 3: We should rip one of these tracks and play it out,

964
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 3: play the episode out on a little sample of his music.

965
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 3: What do you think?

966
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: I think that's a fantastic idea. Thank you so much,

967
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: Nathan s This concludes our but not our show. We

968
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 1: will be back very soon with another episode of stuff.

969
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,359
Speaker 1: They Don't want you to know. We hope that you

970
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,720
Speaker 1: enjoyed this one, and we hope that you will drop

971
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 1: by your platform of choice toss us a review if

972
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,399
Speaker 1: you would like. You can also find us at other

973
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 1: places on the Internet.

974
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 3: And we do the social medis to take a page

975
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,840
Speaker 3: out of the Chuck Bryant book. We are Conspiracy Stuff

976
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:52,319
Speaker 3: at Facebook and Twitter and Instagram. We are Conspiracy Stuff Show.

977
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,240
Speaker 2: And we have a brand new Facebook group called Here's

978
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 2: Where It Gets Crazy. You can join us there if

979
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 2: you haven't already. You can join discussions about each episode.

980
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 2: You can send all kinds of cool messages that we'll

981
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 2: get to see and discuss things with your your friends

982
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:11,280
Speaker 2: and family basically like us who listened to the show atally.

983
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 2: And that's the end of this classic episode. If you

984
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 2: have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can

985
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,280
Speaker 2: get into contact with us in a number of different ways.

986
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 2: One of the best is to give us a call.

987
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 2: Our number is one eight three three STDWYTK. If you

988
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 2: don't want to do that, you can send us a

989
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 2: good old fashioned email.

990
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

991
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 2: Stuff They Don't Want You to Know is a production

992
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

993
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.