Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 1: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 1: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 1: Done done, Yay, that's messed up. An SVU podcast Coming
Speaker 1: at you live JK. I am Liza Traeger and.
Speaker 2: I'm Kara Klank and pre recorded to you, pre recorded,
Speaker 2: but I'm coming to you from New York. We're actually
Speaker 2: in the same place right now, not in the same room,
Speaker 2: but same city.
Speaker 1: No, people truly ask me all the time. They're like, oh,
Speaker 1: how did you record post the move? I'm like, did
Speaker 1: you not live through the same pandemic as us? Like,
Speaker 1: I know, I don't even know how this is even
Speaker 1: a shocking question to you. How we do it in
Speaker 1: separate places?
Speaker 2: And we also used to post like more little video
Speaker 2: clips where it's like we're clearly in different rooms, you know,
Speaker 2: like the clips that we used to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, for you know reason, not that ever,
Speaker 1: It's just like it seems like a silly question.
Speaker 2: So many people are like, wait, Lisa moved, how do
Speaker 2: you do the pod?
Speaker 1: I'm like, the same way we've always done it.
Speaker 2: When we lived three blocks away over Zoom zooming baby, tell.
Speaker 1: Us, Okay, you know in New York, the concrete jungle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm in the concrete Johnny. It's hot as fucking hell.
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, I've been back here a million times
Speaker 2: since I left. I loved living here everything. I haven't
Speaker 2: really been back here with my two kids, like living
Speaker 2: day to day.
Speaker 1: I've come back.
Speaker 2: You know, I did a little spring break with Rosy
Speaker 2: Ones for like four days, both kids all day every day.
Speaker 2: In this city, it's a little, it's a little. I
Speaker 2: have like a lot of respect for the NYC parents.
Speaker 2: Like I always knew it was gonna be harder than
Speaker 2: like La for sure. But like, I just took Oscar
Speaker 2: to a grocery store yesterday, smallest grocery store.
Speaker 1: Everybody's going, excuse me, excuse me.
Speaker 2: I'm like, because I've got him in a stroller, just
Speaker 2: because he was too lazy to walk the whole distance
Speaker 2: to the thing. And everyone's like, other people are in
Speaker 2: there with strollers. But everyone's like, excuse me, pardon me,
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh my god, I just kept getting
Speaker 2: so stressed. I couldn't look at any of the groceries
Speaker 2: because I was blocking someone everywhere I went. Yea, and
Speaker 2: then just like and just like, it's hot and they're
Speaker 2: not as used to walk, but they've gone on the
Speaker 2: subway already. They're loving it. We went to a public
Speaker 2: pool today in the one that Allison goes to in Brooklyn,
Speaker 2: and why maybe the new Central Park one. I want
Speaker 2: to when we're in Manhattan, I'll go, what is that?
Speaker 1: There's like a new one. Yeah, there's a new pool.
Speaker 1: It just opened on like June twenty seventh, like a
Speaker 1: giants supposed to be the biggest pool in New York.
Speaker 1: But it's in Central Park. It's a giant circle. I've
Speaker 1: only seen photos. I've only sit in photos. But I
Speaker 1: did fit angle my way to a pool on Sunday, exciting.
Speaker 1: Yes I did. Yeah, I used a person. I did,
Speaker 1: but I like them a lot, so it's fine. But
Speaker 1: I did, I did get, I did dunk, and I'm
Speaker 1: going back. I'm going in two days. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: always chasing a body of water. Yeah, yeah, I just like,
Speaker 1: how did you feel with the rules they watch you shower?
Speaker 1: You really got a lock up and nothing's a lot.
Speaker 1: Actually I did the lock up.
Speaker 2: They lent me a lock because I was on my
Speaker 2: way there and I didn't have a lock and I
Speaker 2: couldn't find a place, and so they lent me a lock,
Speaker 2: which was really nice.
Speaker 1: And then the water was really cool. Did you remember
Speaker 1: a new code? What do you mean? I wouldn't remember.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to remember a new lock. No,
Speaker 1: they lent me a lock with a key. Amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they let me a little lock with a key.
Speaker 2: It was really nice cause they were like, you can't
Speaker 2: come in without a lock. I thought it was like optional,
Speaker 2: like you could get robbed and you just like kind
Speaker 2: of take that on yourself.
Speaker 1: It's not optional. You have to lock.
Speaker 2: So I was like, all right, uh, what do I do?
Speaker 2: Is there a place near here? And they were like
Speaker 2: hold on, and they were nice and they give me one.
Speaker 2: And who says New Yorkers are not nice?
Speaker 1: They are. And then we got in the pool.
Speaker 2: I met a fucking kid that goes to school with
Speaker 2: the kid that I'm staying with whose apartment I'm staying in.
Speaker 2: They knew each other like they know each other. It
Speaker 2: was like crazy, so such a small world. And then
Speaker 2: this guy works in restaurants. I was like, tell me
Speaker 2: where to eat around here? It was great, but the
Speaker 2: water was so cool and I loved it. It's fucking
Speaker 2: hot as hell here, and my kids were being babies
Speaker 2: about how cold it was. Oscar got into it after
Speaker 2: a few minutes, but Rosie was really she's really a
Speaker 2: baby about like heated pools now that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how do they feel being in the city, Like
Speaker 1: what is Yeah? What are their thoughts? Because I think
Speaker 1: a lot of stereotypes do come true in the summer,
Speaker 1: and it does smell like piss more than it doesn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like Oscar a couple of times has been like,
Speaker 2: what's that smell?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, listen, New York's full of tons of smells.
Speaker 1: Keep walking, like you'll be it'll be a different it'll
Speaker 1: be a delicious smell in about one block, you know.
Speaker 2: Like, So they've been liking it though, like it's just uh,
Speaker 2: the walking. They love it at first, and then eventually
Speaker 2: they're like, h you know, but they're but they've they're
Speaker 2: they're doing great. I mean, they love this apartment that
Speaker 2: we're in because my friend has two kids their exact ages,
Speaker 2: so they're just playing with all new toys they've never
Speaker 2: seen before. So they're like pumped. But yeah, but it's
Speaker 2: been it's been good so far. I mean, getting here
Speaker 2: almost broke my body and spirit, but everything else was
Speaker 2: everything else in terms of packing, in terms of like
Speaker 2: I've never had to, I'm like, I rented my house
Speaker 2: out to somebody and getting my house like in order,
Speaker 2: like moving all of our crap out of the way
Speaker 2: and like putting it in the garage and like having
Speaker 2: it look really really good, and then getting the kids
Speaker 2: to a hotel and then to.
Speaker 1: The airport and then on the plane.
Speaker 2: And Rosie was feeling queasy on the plane and would
Speaker 2: stop whining. And then my mom picked us up and
Speaker 2: is like crazy driving in Brooklyn, Like it was just
Speaker 2: like a lot. I was like, I'm gonna die. And
Speaker 2: then I tried to go to sleep the first night.
Speaker 2: I was going to get some sleep for the first
Speaker 2: time in like forty eight hours, and Oscar woke up
Speaker 2: at eleven pm and was like it's morning, and I.
Speaker 1: Was like, I'm gonna kill somebody. So like it was
Speaker 1: just like a lot.
Speaker 2: But it's been a couple of days since we've been
Speaker 2: here and I'm feeling good.
Speaker 1: It's all good. Wait, what did you say it at
Speaker 1: a hotel by the airport.
Speaker 2: Yes, because I had my house deep cleaned on Friday,
Speaker 2: and of course I'm not gonna let my kids set
Speaker 2: foot back in that fucking house after they get out
Speaker 2: of their dirty hiking camp. So I booked us a
Speaker 2: hotel by Lax and was like, let's just state, we'll
Speaker 2: just go from We went to a friend's house after
Speaker 2: camp for like a little wine and pizza, wine for me, not.
Speaker 1: For the kids.
Speaker 2: And then and then we went to this Lax like
Speaker 2: highatt and then went straight to the air but from there,
Speaker 2: which was like great too, because you know it's a
Speaker 2: five minute drive to the Delta terminal.
Speaker 1: So yeah, damn yeah it was. It was a lot.
Speaker 1: It was a lot of moving pieces.
Speaker 2: And I have so many bags, like I have three
Speaker 2: massive suitcases and a little carry on with all these
Speaker 2: kids plus their little backpacks. My backpack, everything weighs twenty
Speaker 2: five thousand pounds. Like it's it's like I thought I
Speaker 2: was gonna like I was, like, my body.
Speaker 1: Can't handle anymore, like I'm dead. But I made it.
Speaker 1: I made it. You made it. I mean I love
Speaker 1: it here. And like the Empire State Building was gay
Speaker 1: for Pride, and it just looks so cute with the rainbow,
Speaker 1: like I love the rainbow nice. And then when I
Speaker 1: was go with my friend's pool who I used in
Speaker 1: Brooklyn Heights, it's like you're passing the bridge, you just
Speaker 1: see the boats and the jet skis and the views
Speaker 1: and then my glass little you know they have a
Speaker 1: second glass water tower. I don't know, it's just like
Speaker 1: too much to handle. I know my friend's here. I
Speaker 1: don't even when it's hot. I'm like, I'm in a
Speaker 1: Spike Lee movie. What are you gonna do? Like yeah,
Speaker 1: no matter, or like I'll get down to the train
Speaker 1: and then someone's just playing a tuba. I go, great,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love the city in the summer.
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people don't. I love it.
Speaker 2: Like I and my friend that I'm staying with here
Speaker 2: has a sick view of Manhattan from Brooklyn, Like it's
Speaker 2: really like overwhelming how awesome it is.
Speaker 1: And I'm like showing my kids and.
Speaker 2: Like Jared has this joke that he does where he's
Speaker 2: like you're lucky for there. He goes, You're welcome for
Speaker 2: the amazing life we're giving you, and like this is
Speaker 2: like I was just showing them the New York City
Speaker 2: skyline and was like, do not complain for one second.
Speaker 1: Look how great this is? You know, Like so it's
Speaker 1: been it's been cool though, but now and then I'm out.
Speaker 1: So I'm doing the reverse. But I'm just one person.
Speaker 1: But packing to do kill my spirits. Like once I
Speaker 1: go for three weeks, it's like it's just not a
Speaker 1: simple game. When I do a pop off weekend, even
Speaker 1: two weekends in a row, that's that's nothing. But when
Speaker 1: we're talking, I'm going to winter, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Oh that's right. You guys tell your trey is an
Speaker 2: Australian winter. How wintry is it?
Speaker 1: I mean, people are dramatic it'll be like thirty the
Speaker 1: coldest in Melbourne and Auckland, but like forty to thirty
Speaker 1: is the coldest it will get. So I don't think
Speaker 1: I'm bringing. Someone that I know from Australia said better
Speaker 1: to layer, So I don't think I'm gonna bring my big,
Speaker 1: big winter. But like I don't know if that leather
Speaker 1: I can layer this. Yeah, it's just that's what I Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what I'm going through at the moment. A lot,
Speaker 1: it's a lot of shit. Yeah, you want to show
Speaker 1: outfit you want chill outfits, you want a lounging outfit,
Speaker 1: and then I will be back in. It's just like, yeah, packings.
Speaker 1: And then I went the rich person's house I went
Speaker 1: to had a lot of plants, and I go, are
Speaker 1: you watering these plants? And he goes, I have an assistant,
Speaker 1: and I go, that's how you get things you need
Speaker 1: and this is yeah, it's like the chase to try
Speaker 1: to get an assistant. Yeah, yeah I didn't. If I
Speaker 1: didn't have to water the plants, I would have a
Speaker 1: jumbatio full of gorgeous plants. Here, I go, who's doing this?
Speaker 1: My friend's like, that's all my husband. It's like his thing.
Speaker 1: He likes the plants.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I I can't keep plants, but I'm watering
Speaker 2: their plants a little bit.
Speaker 1: Because sometimes you can't just water them where they are.
Speaker 1: They have like a hole in the bottom with the soil.
Speaker 1: You got to put him and it's like, what are you?
Speaker 1: What are we doing here? Suddenly I'm a botanist. No,
Speaker 1: I can't do all that. No. Well, speaking of New York,
Speaker 1: I saw Margaret Joseph's Who's a Jersey Housewife? But okay, wait,
Speaker 1: I saw this wait, I was set. So I was like,
Speaker 1: so we're at a hotel lobby and then me and
Speaker 1: my friend Shocks, we go downstairs to use the bathroom,
Speaker 1: and you know what I'm gonna this. Okay, So it's
Speaker 1: one of the it's a hip bathroom. It's the one hotel,
Speaker 1: so it's like, you know, gender neutral and like a
Speaker 1: bunch of stalls, and then the you share. You know,
Speaker 1: there's no urinouls or anything like that, but all these
Speaker 1: are Orthodox Jews, and I'm like, you can't even pray
Speaker 1: next to a woman, and you're here pissing next to me.
Speaker 1: Get the fuck out of here. You won't shake a
Speaker 1: woman's hand, but we're all pissing in here together. It
Speaker 1: bothered me, and they all they were all like trying
Speaker 1: to cut in line. When person's like are you in line,
Speaker 1: It's like no, we're in a row, just chilling in
Speaker 1: the toilet. Get behind us. But I just whatever. So
Speaker 1: we go to the bathroom and then what happened I
Speaker 1: think with Margaret and her friend Lexi is they went
Speaker 1: into an elevator that was coming down, thinking they were
Speaker 1: going up, so they didn't want to come down there.
Speaker 1: And I walked into the elevator, and I lost all
Speaker 1: tether to like reality and how to behave I really did.
Speaker 1: I went Margaret Joseph's like, I lost it fully And
Speaker 1: then but you were.
Speaker 2: In the same elevator with her, Yes, okay, I saw
Speaker 2: our Wait do you want to not talk about how
Speaker 2: your friend got married or do you want to talk
Speaker 2: about I don't care.
Speaker 1: But they were in the love That's what I said.
Speaker 1: People were in the lobby. I went to the bathroom
Speaker 1: and then so just me and my friend, the elevator
Speaker 1: doors open and Margaret's in there. No one else experienced that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did not know anybody saw her in full
Speaker 2: view because I saw somebody post a photo of her
Speaker 2: from a far and was like, oh, neat, that's a
Speaker 2: good omen. You're getting a Margaret on your wedding day.
Speaker 2: That's exciting. But then you were in an enclosed space.
Speaker 2: So what happened? How did she react?
Speaker 1: She was like, oh, yeah, you look incredible. But then
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that they had seen her through the lobby,
Speaker 1: you know, like this was my own experience, and so
Speaker 1: I try to get her out of the I go,
Speaker 1: my friend just got married, you gotta come out. I
Speaker 1: go you gotta say hi to my friend. And she
Speaker 1: was clearly like, well, congrats to your friend, like of
Speaker 1: course she's not gonna come out of the YELP things.
Speaker 1: I got it, what am I thinking? But I lost,
Speaker 1: like I also should have been like anything, but I said,
Speaker 1: she looked great, and then and then I just kept going,
Speaker 1: I can't believe you're here. What are you doing here?
Speaker 1: Are you going to the wedding? Because there was like
Speaker 1: another there was like eight weddings in that hotel, and
Speaker 1: so so she goes, oh, there's a GLAD event on
Speaker 1: the second floor, so that they got the photos through
Speaker 1: the window at the step and repeat of this Glad event.
Speaker 1: And then Harvey Gillian, who I worked with this last summer,
Speaker 1: he had a post with that I've had it podcast
Speaker 1: Women at a GLAD event and I DMed him and
Speaker 1: it was the same one and he saw Margaret there
Speaker 1: as well. But she looked fantastic. It was it was exciting.
Speaker 2: It was through ye, Margaret's had some good work done.
Speaker 2: I feel like she looks great. Yeah, but I wish
Speaker 2: I composed.
Speaker 1: I truly screamed, like chose like I couldn't.
Speaker 2: But was this like the end of the night. Was
Speaker 2: this towards the end of the night or no, Like
Speaker 2: where was this, Like there was a few drinks in
Speaker 2: and like having.
Speaker 1: A great time at my friend's wedding. I would definitely
Speaker 1: know there wasn't a wedding. My friends got married for
Speaker 1: health insurance, and then we went to the courthouse, but
Speaker 1: they got a hotel room. So we after dinner stopped
Speaker 1: at the hotel room. We were gonna have drinks on
Speaker 1: the roof, but it was closed for a wedding. Like
Speaker 1: there were just like a lot of events happening at
Speaker 1: the There was just like a lot. Oh. I did
Speaker 1: go to one bride party that was exciting. I danced,
Speaker 1: but it was so and then we just went to
Speaker 1: a bar, right, yeah that's great. Yeah we didn't know.
Speaker 1: The pictures all looked really fun. But it is the
Speaker 1: omen of me and my friend. Like anytime her and
Speaker 1: her dude, or we like book a hotel pool or
Speaker 1: any it's raining, it's cloudy, it's closed, Like there's always
Speaker 1: something running amuck.
Speaker 2: But I was gonna say, every time you and that
Speaker 2: friend book a hotel, you see bravo people, because.
Speaker 1: You do sometimes.
Speaker 2: I mean, there was like the time from the other
Speaker 2: hotel I saw.
Speaker 1: But we were also with someone where we're like, it's
Speaker 1: a good because someone else got married and there was
Speaker 1: a house. Oh Bennett who was with us, Julia's friend
Speaker 1: when he got married Ebony was on the same rooftop
Speaker 1: as them, oh New York. So it was like, it
Speaker 1: is an omen, it's a good one.
Speaker 2: Someone sent me a screenshot of something that I don't
Speaker 2: know if it's real or not that says we might
Speaker 2: get to see Morocco.
Speaker 1: That Morocco, oh might come out. Did you see this?
Speaker 1: I didn't, and I don't want you to get my hopeset.
Speaker 1: I really don't.
Speaker 2: Somebody said to me and was like, we might get
Speaker 2: and I was like, I was thinking the same thing,
Speaker 2: kind of.
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know. I'll believe it when
Speaker 1: I see it, you know. Yeah, did you see Andy
Speaker 1: Cohen moved, uh moved building after twenty two years. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I saw his beautiful homage to his like like staff
Speaker 1: at his building. It was so nice. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: So I went to dinner at a friend's house. They
Speaker 1: have one seven year old daughter, and she's like an
Speaker 1: Upper West Side girl, Like, what are you gonna say?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? She walks to school and
Speaker 1: she's very hip, and so I'm talking and she goes,
Speaker 1: you don't have a doorman. I go, no, she goes,
Speaker 1: so people could just walk into your apartment. I was like, no,
Speaker 1: there's two buzzers. But she's just it's so funny, Like
Speaker 1: I've told you my sister and all her friends, I'll
Speaker 1: have dorman.
Speaker 2: My sister when she taught fifth grade on the Upper
Speaker 2: East Side, Like they were like, you don't have a
Speaker 2: country house, Miss Caitlin. Like they couldn't believe she didn't
Speaker 2: have a country house. You're like, what do you like
Speaker 2: do on the weekend? Like they you know, it's like
Speaker 2: they don't. Oh, I don't know, but I had such
Speaker 2: a nice city.
Speaker 1: I forget. It's it is easy to cook. They like
Speaker 1: put some salmon in the air fryer, and I have
Speaker 1: like a delicious moist piece of fit. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I want an air fryer. I think you
Speaker 1: would love an air fryer.
Speaker 2: I need an air frier company to sponsor our pod
Speaker 2: and give me one.
Speaker 1: Come on, like one hundred and thirty.
Speaker 2: There's a specific one I want. There's a specific one
Speaker 2: I want. Yeah, there's one I've looked because I like
Speaker 2: that it's like a toaster, oven and an air fry.
Speaker 2: It does like a bunch of different things, and that's
Speaker 2: the one I want. It's like a Breville one. I
Speaker 2: don't know, it's it's it's a hoop dream for them
Speaker 2: to sponsor the pod.
Speaker 1: But well, I was about to say, what else are
Speaker 1: you going to do in New York? When am I
Speaker 1: going to see you? But we also huge announcement you're
Speaker 1: in New York or the Tri state area down to
Speaker 1: do a trip in August to New York. Who wouldn't
Speaker 1: want to do that? Who wouldn't want to be in
Speaker 1: New York in August? Every therapist and person with a
Speaker 1: country house, that's they leave. They and the art world
Speaker 1: they shut down too.
Speaker 2: But if you are in New York City on August fourteenth,
Speaker 2: that's a Thursday, We're gonna be doing a That's Messed
Speaker 2: Up live at the Bellhouse in Brooklyn, baby so and
Speaker 2: it's a lot of smaller venue than we've performed at
Speaker 2: before in one show.
Speaker 1: So I get I would get your tickets.
Speaker 2: Get tickets, get tickets, And I mean the nice thing
Speaker 2: about the Bellhouse is it's like it's a little different
Speaker 2: than some of the other venues we've done. There's no
Speaker 2: drink minimums or anything like that, so you could just
Speaker 2: come watch us sang out hard to drink.
Speaker 1: You know, it's more cash. They do want you, they
Speaker 1: want you. They'll yeah fond. You don't bring your knives
Speaker 1: or guns. Don't bring a knife for a gun to
Speaker 1: the SVU podcast.
Speaker 2: If it's like your cause playing as us, which people
Speaker 2: have done before, you know, you can bring fake cuffs
Speaker 2: or whatever.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that'll be okay with the wand people.
Speaker 2: But yeah, go to That's messed Up live dot com.
Speaker 2: We'll have the link up there to buy tickets, and yeah,
Speaker 2: come see us.
Speaker 1: We're gonna do We'll do an episode we've never done in.
Speaker 2: New York, so obviously you're gonna get something new and
Speaker 2: fun and yeah, I'm excited. We haven't done a live
Speaker 2: show since Febbs, so come and come hang down.
Speaker 1: It's so many the Melinda Warner Rollins who dress up
Speaker 1: in North Carolina for our Halloween shows. They came to
Speaker 1: my stand up show, but the shows before the one
Speaker 1: they came to, they go remember the girls who dressed up,
Speaker 1: they were like the talk of the town. Truly really,
Speaker 1: it really does stay with us forever. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well last when we did like a tiny tour last
Speaker 2: year too, we got a lot of Halloween. Were so
Speaker 2: close to Halloweens, we were getting a lot of Halloween
Speaker 2: and those people.
Speaker 1: Really turned it out. That was really fun. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is what I was talking about. Yeah, yeah, like Denver, Pa,
Speaker 1: you don't have to do it in August, but we.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, please please, you do not have to wear
Speaker 2: a leather and dresses rollins on in the mid August
Speaker 2: to New York City too much. And then if you're going,
Speaker 2: if you are in Australia, go to when You're at
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up Live. You could also go there. Scroll
Speaker 2: down to Liza's website that has all the tickets to
Speaker 2: her Australia and.
Speaker 1: New Zealand shows. I do feel like we're letting everyone down.
Speaker 1: I have not watched My mom is Jane. I know.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I want Jania. I'm going to. But I've
Speaker 1: been getting text and from people and they're loving it.
Speaker 1: Someone's like, I didn't really think about Marishka. Now I'm
Speaker 1: obsessed with her like that. It's so well done and emotional,
Speaker 1: so it gets.
Speaker 2: Wild to me because I oh, I wanted to mention
Speaker 2: this to you, like, you know, the other podcast I
Speaker 2: listened to is called who Weekly, right, yeah, and so
Speaker 2: who Weekly basically I love it. They divide celebrities into
Speaker 2: who's in thems and then there's actually nas, which are
Speaker 2: like that's like kind of insulting. It's like no one
Speaker 2: even know you're not even on the register if you're
Speaker 2: like a nah, But like who's are Like they might
Speaker 2: be famous on TikTok or they might be famous like
Speaker 2: in a one movie or something like that, but they're
Speaker 2: not necessarily them is like Tom Hanks, Julia Roberts, like
Speaker 2: Scarlett Johansson. So they were talking about whether Mariushka Hargita
Speaker 2: is a who or them on a recent episode.
Speaker 1: That's the dumbest thing ever. And I was like, definitely
Speaker 1: of them.
Speaker 2: And they were like they were arguing that Olivia Benson
Speaker 2: is a bigger them than Marishka Rteah.
Speaker 1: Sure, but there is no Olivia without Marishka. True. But
Speaker 1: they see the people at her premiere, I mean, share
Speaker 1: was there, Like, I know, the the A list people
Speaker 1: that were at the car that at the premiere was
Speaker 1: was insane, went really deep yes.
Speaker 2: I think though that if you don't listen to like
Speaker 2: our podcasts or you don't like super follow like, you
Speaker 2: might not know that she is like truly one of
Speaker 2: the most connected people I think in the business.
Speaker 1: I think she knows everybody, and I think even at
Speaker 1: the Knicks games like the other like Ben Skiller and
Speaker 1: all those people are like like like, she gets hugs
Speaker 1: from players that won't even hug their family, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: people are obsessed with her and everyone watches us to
Speaker 1: be It's just a show that's been on the air
Speaker 1: for twenty six years. It would be psychotic to say
Speaker 1: it's not them. Yeah, Jamie Lee Curtis was at this premiere.
Speaker 2: No, I obviously she's my biggest them in my life.
Speaker 1: Like obviously I think she's them. You know their vanes
Speaker 1: or shields. Well, we have friends fully star studded b
Speaker 1: but Liam Neeson's there. What they would even.
Speaker 2: Think of other examples of people where their character is
Speaker 2: like as famous as they are or more famous. Oh,
Speaker 2: that's a lot of thinking, Like yeah, I was like
Speaker 2: John Snow is probably one of them.
Speaker 1: You know what. A lot of clips from Game of
Speaker 1: Thrones are showing up in my YouTube shorts and this
Speaker 1: might be a little slow to the game, but looks good.
Speaker 1: I think I might want to watch somebody might be
Speaker 1: getting in. The only thing about Game of Thrones.
Speaker 2: Is like you have to actively watch so hardcore because
Speaker 2: there's so many fucking plot lines going on. That's why
Speaker 2: I kind of like House of the Dragon, how so
Speaker 2: the Dragons the new one, and it's really just like
Speaker 2: one or two plot lines going on at all times.
Speaker 2: It's like a light Game of Thrones because Game of
Speaker 2: Thrones have a fucking story raging.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've got it. I'm like sitting with my Olivia
Speaker 1: Lighter being like, how dare you call her a? Who? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean everyone from the Office I think, like even
Speaker 1: Steve Corral I don't think his oh'm I mean he's
Speaker 1: really famous and beloved, but I bet people call him
Speaker 1: Michael Scott all the time. Yeah, yeah, that's true, Michael Scott. Yeah,
Speaker 1: am I wrong? Yeah? But like Rain Wilson, it like
Speaker 1: drives him crazy and it's I don't know, every time
Speaker 1: I see him in an interview, I'm like, you're so unlikable,
Speaker 1: Like I can't believe it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look at Kevin from the Office, who
Speaker 2: was on an SVU that we covered recently, and I
Speaker 2: was like, I can't believe that that's this guy's real name.
Speaker 2: I did not know it, like I've always he's always
Speaker 2: Kevin from the office to me.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I watch yeah, but like the Rain, he
Speaker 1: was on last Meals and he was trying to be condescending, like, whoa,
Speaker 1: how do you know about Persian food? And he goes
Speaker 1: my co host is, I'm like a professor. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It was just it was uncomfortable to watch Rain Wilson. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's uncomfortable. Oh he's yeah, I didn't let Yeah he's
Speaker 1: in an SVU. Yeah he is. He's like a janitor.
Speaker 1: I forget about that one. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like for having a hard time remembering. Anyway,
Speaker 2: we are gonna watch My mom My Mom Jane.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to watch well. I also, I have
Speaker 1: a quick thing. I just want to say. I tried
Speaker 1: to horse readdish cream cheese, not good, would not recommend.
Speaker 1: Just want to look out for my friends that'll listen,
Speaker 1: that might be lured, don't do it, okay, And then
Speaker 1: I have terrible news for you. I did start watching
Speaker 1: season two of Queer Ultimatum so oh my.
Speaker 2: God, it's gonna be all I hear about all right,
Speaker 2: all right, so bad.
Speaker 1: It's like they take out everything, like everything fun from
Speaker 1: reality and they just they all want to be challenged.
Speaker 1: I'm like, why do you all want to be challenged
Speaker 1: so badly? It's like, yeah, I think she's gonna challenge me.
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, I don't. I don't understand why you
Speaker 1: get Also.
Speaker 2: Life could be easy, yeah.
Speaker 1: But also like the flip to then just pretend to
Speaker 1: be married with a stranger for three weeks to then
Speaker 1: flop back, but you have to sleep in the same bed,
Speaker 1: but then everyone's getting mad if they cuddle with anyone else.
Speaker 1: It's it's so psychotic. If anyone's watching DM ME, I
Speaker 1: just yeah, I would Also why is the host straight?
Speaker 1: Why is the host a straight woman? It makes no sense.
Speaker 1: It makes no sense. And she's like, just because I'm
Speaker 1: straight doesn't mean I don't understand about life. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you don't understand queer. Get out of here.
Speaker 2: They couldn't get Krishelle or somebody, like, come on, that's crazy.
Speaker 1: I think it's fair. But I would say better than
Speaker 1: all the other dating shows, Like everyone looks different and
Speaker 1: it's from different plates, like they all like it's really
Speaker 1: that's the only uh that's like a cool thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because Love Island is a little bit more homogeneous.
Speaker 2: I feel like everybody's talking to me about Love Island.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm never gonna watch Love Island, but people
Speaker 2: are talking to me about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's wild what you do fight off because you're
Speaker 1: usually ravenous about keeping up with the culture.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I can't. I can't, Like I don't really
Speaker 2: do fuck life. I don't, like I've talked about this before, right, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't really do fuck life.
Speaker 1: I just do Housewives. But and vander Pump.
Speaker 2: Was as close to fuck life as I got. And
Speaker 2: I'm not even really still in it anymore. But I
Speaker 2: do want to watch Next Gen. I do want to
Speaker 2: watch Next Gen. I'm watching that. But wait, one other
Speaker 2: thing I was gonnay is people are asking us to
Speaker 2: react to the Call Her Daddy interview.
Speaker 1: Obviously I haven't listened to it. I don't want to
Speaker 1: Spotify are serious now, Like, I don't watch it. The
Speaker 1: one clip I saw it's a little cringey. It's hard
Speaker 1: for me. I mean, we obviously love Marshika it's hard
Speaker 1: for me to watch her try to be funny and personable. Mm.
Speaker 1: It's like cringey to me. It makes me uncomfortable. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's so mad. Yeah, I'm like so cool
Speaker 1: and fun and I'm hysterical, and I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: think I could I do. I can't.
Speaker 2: This is a woman that uses like hashtags as full sentences,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like, this is a woman that.
Speaker 2: Like uses a hashtag like let me introduce you to
Speaker 2: my best friend Brooke. Like you know that's'll be like
Speaker 2: the hashtag. You're like, that's not how they work. But
Speaker 2: I love her, But I did like one clip I
Speaker 2: saw where she said like in her twenties she wasn't
Speaker 2: really getting a lot of work. And I was like,
Speaker 2: that's wild, because like you're a nepo and gorgeous and
Speaker 2: like she is like an example of somebody. She did
Speaker 2: not get this show until she was in her thirties,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she thought she was gonna do comedy, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So that's the clip I saw. There was just like psychic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's just this thing of like it just was hard
Speaker 1: to watch. I would say, yeah, just the one little thing.
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna after I watch the movie, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: listen to the mark Maren.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm I'm more interested to see how she
Speaker 2: was different on Maren versus on uh, on Alex Cooper
Speaker 2: or whatever. But all right, we've got a lot of
Speaker 2: Marishka catching up to do. We'll get on it as
Speaker 2: soon as possible. It's a busy summer. I've been traveling.
Speaker 1: Jesus about travel what So the Sharman Bear the commercials,
Speaker 1: the new Sharman Bear has a Tiffany's Heart necklace on it.
Speaker 1: She's like a red bear and she has like a
Speaker 1: Tiffany's necklace. I took photo, but I'll get in trouble
Speaker 1: if my phone is next door recorder. So but the
Speaker 1: Sharman Bear is wearing a Tiffany's necklace. So I send
Speaker 1: it to a friend who's a fellow Tiffany's Heart girl,
Speaker 1: and then I just send it to her being like lol,
Speaker 1: go on Instagram. She just posted maybe ten minutes earlier
Speaker 1: that her father had died, and I went, wow, I'm
Speaker 1: the timing, so sorry, back, Like, I'm sorry, I just
Speaker 1: went on Instagram. I apologize for the timing. She goes
Speaker 1: well it did make me laugh. I cook, Well, that's good,
Speaker 1: but like the timing could not have been sillier.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's like I yeah, I mean not the
Speaker 2: same level of severity. But I did keep texting my
Speaker 2: old babysitter asking when her boyfriend could do a bird
Speaker 2: show for my kids, and it was always right after
Speaker 2: they had just broken up.
Speaker 1: I did it twice. Yeah, I did it two times,
Speaker 1: and then I was like sorry, like I just it's
Speaker 1: so awkward. But now we can legit start, we can legit.
Speaker 2: I like when you're like, wait, I have to say
Speaker 2: one more thing. The Sharman bear wears a Tiffany's Like,
Speaker 2: it was like this must be I thought you were
Speaker 2: just going to talk about the Tiffany secause I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: this was we had to keep this in important information.
Speaker 2: Uh but yeah, we're going to start the episode. We've
Speaker 2: got a good one for you. But go to That's
Speaker 2: messed Up dot com for LESA tickets for tickets to
Speaker 2: our show in New York on August fourteenth, and uh yeah,
Speaker 2: let's kick it.
Speaker 1: With this awesome episode. Here we go, all right today
Speaker 1: for our two hundred and fortieth episode. If you scramble those.
Speaker 1: It's four twenty so pretty thrilling, huge milestone. Yeah, we're
Speaker 1: doing Liberties season ten, episode twenty one. Let's get into it.
Speaker 1: Another one I sort of forgot about. I remember it.
Speaker 1: It's just so convoluted and insane. It's an insane episode.
Speaker 2: And in insane episode, I'm glad you said it before
Speaker 2: I had to.
Speaker 1: It's like, all, like, what is it when you go
Speaker 1: to a play? What do you suspend your disbelief or whatnot?
Speaker 1: You really gotta separate my.
Speaker 2: Break belief is hanging from a piece of floss on
Speaker 2: the ceiling by a thread, Like it is like crazy, yeah.
Speaker 1: Thread floss situation, but you know it is it starts
Speaker 1: grounded and then whatever, We're gonna get into it. And
Speaker 1: if you are someone that you know knows this episode
Speaker 1: and isn't one of our non watching freaks, is that
Speaker 1: a good merch? I'm an I'm not matching freaks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm a that's messed up non watching freak listener. Is
Speaker 1: that a cool shirt? Is that a shirt people to wear?
Speaker 1: Chopped tank? Would you guys do that? How did I pack? I?
Speaker 1: You know, I have my new tank top that says
Speaker 1: I hope your abuser dies. Maybe I'll wear it tonight.
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, that's good. But then someone was like,
Speaker 1: I wonder who in They're like, I wonder what little
Speaker 1: kid in a sweatshop made that? And I'm like, touche
Speaker 1: cause it is definitely a fast passion. It's not like
Speaker 1: I'm buying it from like a charity that goes to abuse,
Speaker 1: you know, abuse victims. It's a seventy five dollars T shirt. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it's Cherrycale. Baby, it's twelve ninety nine. I don't think
Speaker 1: it's gonna survive a wash. But anyways, two thousand and nine.
Speaker 1: I so this came out May two thousand and nine,
Speaker 1: which means I was two months into stand up comedy
Speaker 1: around this time. Wow, well baby Lisa at open mics.
Speaker 1: I know, I was twenty one. That's kind of insane,
Speaker 1: so young. I didn't start till I was twenty seven. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, is everyone in a dark bar?
Speaker 1: I like this. I guess this will be my new hobby.
Speaker 1: This is my new thing. Yeah, really paid off by gamble.
Speaker 1: I know, it's really crazy to think about though the time.
Speaker 1: But anyways, now we're in the present time. I'm in
Speaker 1: alphabeta at Atlanta, Georgia Alpharetta Alfaretta. It's crazy, but we're starting.
Speaker 1: It sucks crimes. We're back, We're back. So uh oh.
Speaker 1: It's a woman breathing hard, she's getting dressed fast, she's crying.
Speaker 1: It's really shaking. Wild camera work, and she uses a
Speaker 1: cordless phone to call nine one one. She says a
Speaker 1: man broke into her apartment and raped her and they asked,
Speaker 1: you know, in an ambulance and she says no, but
Speaker 1: he does love that. That is a badass moment. And
Speaker 1: then the camera slowly pans to a bloody, unconscious man
Speaker 1: and Benson of course on the scene and she's snapping
Speaker 1: a latex glove on. Immediately there was a leaky skylight
Speaker 1: and she kept telling her landlord, it's not safe, it's
Speaker 1: not safe, and he did nothing about it. And so
Speaker 1: like a guy did climb in through there. But it's like,
Speaker 1: are you spider man, what are you talking about? You're
Speaker 1: climbing from roof to roof looking for a shaky little window.
Speaker 1: It does seem like a wild way to get into
Speaker 1: a home.
Speaker 2: And then like lowering your body into it and dropping
Speaker 2: to the ground.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very, very spidy. Yeah, so she says the
Speaker 1: self defense class at the Y was finally put to
Speaker 1: good use. So that's, you know, a shout out for
Speaker 1: the why. And the guy is alive and he's laying
Speaker 1: in a hospital bed and a classically suited Stabler is
Speaker 1: standing over him. He awakes, he's groaning. He goes, oh,
Speaker 1: it feels like somebody put my balls in a wood chipper.
Speaker 1: And he asked, what how, and it's like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: that woman you attacked wasn't as defenseless as you thought
Speaker 1: she would be. And it cuts back to Benson and
Speaker 1: the woman's like, yeah, I was terrified. I woke up.
Speaker 1: He was on top of me and I started screaming,
Speaker 1: and then we cut back to him and he's cuffed
Speaker 1: up and he doesn't get what's happening, and Stabler goes,
Speaker 1: you'll figure it out in five to ten. And Stablor's
Speaker 1: being extra cocky. He's having fun. It's kind of like
Speaker 1: an orca with a seal, you know, just bouncing it
Speaker 1: around until he takes a chomp. Stabler says, what you
Speaker 1: don't remember raping Pam Galliano And he says, I remember that, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's a can feel like what's going on. So then
Speaker 1: it goes back to the woman and you know, Pam
Speaker 1: continues he slapped her and then put his hand over
Speaker 1: her mouth and he said, don't be loud. You don't
Speaker 1: want someone to call the police. And then she remembers,
Speaker 1: you know, from her class ies, throat testicles are always close,
Speaker 1: and that's something to remember ies throat testicles. Eyed. Is
Speaker 1: that a shirt? I throat testicles? That is a shirt
Speaker 1: head shirt? Yeah? Eyes, Yeah, we have a merch in
Speaker 1: a while. We're really we're really reaching here throws. And
Speaker 1: now we're back with the dudes and Stabler. You know,
Speaker 1: this guy who's chained up is like, I want her
Speaker 1: arrested for assaulting meat, and that pisses Stabler off and
Speaker 1: he leers and goes, are you kidding me? You fucking rapist?
Speaker 1: And he goes, she wanted me to and then it
Speaker 1: does the classic where it keeps going back and forth.
Speaker 1: So then she's with Benson going I hit him with
Speaker 1: the lamp and he goes, oh, yeah, baby, fight me,
Speaker 1: but like, fight me, bitch, that's so hot, and then
Speaker 1: he like brought her to the ground and she saw
Speaker 1: a dumbbell under her bed, and so she pulled that
Speaker 1: and hit him in his head. And Stabler is with
Speaker 1: the dude and is like, bro, you broke in and
Speaker 1: forced her, and he screams, no, I met her on
Speaker 1: a fantasy rape site. She sent me detailed instructions on
Speaker 1: what to do, and he screams, she wanted me to
Speaker 1: rape her. Credits, but that makes ends with the skylight,
Speaker 1: like you probably knew it was shaky from whatever you
Speaker 1: know plan they did. Yeah, because I understand, like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna see what doors are locked or buzz into
Speaker 1: whatever building, but like to climb onto the ceiling. It's
Speaker 1: like so crazy, But we're in credits obviously this guy
Speaker 1: says she wanted it classic defense. So it's a mighty
Speaker 1: and I could say the end credits, it's like such
Speaker 1: a mighty group. Beady, Melinda, Stabler, Benson, Kragan, Munch and
Speaker 1: Finn and then gray Lick gray Lick, I forgot her name.
Speaker 1: I wrote, Is that an objection you're raising? I didn't
Speaker 1: even good moment, like that's what we should just call her.
Speaker 1: It's like her only good moment. I don't think that's
Speaker 1: an objection you're raising. With the boner guy, I don't
Speaker 1: even think we see her in this episode. No, no,
Speaker 1: but she's But anyways, it's a very powerful photo and
Speaker 1: I will bring up people sent it a bunch to us,
Speaker 1: But you saw that woman talking about how like she
Speaker 1: found like someone talking about the top five Sview characters. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: did you want that? And it was insane and she goes,
Speaker 1: oh bad, and she goes, okay, yeah, for sure, for sure,
Speaker 1: and then it's Melinda. She goes, of course, you get
Speaker 1: my Melinda in the top five. Benson's at three, and
Speaker 1: then it was Cabot and then Novak, who we love.
Speaker 1: But it's like, not even Stablers in the top five, Like,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? And I think Munch would
Speaker 1: be in my top five. Munch is definitely in my
Speaker 1: top five. He's actually because to me, if we're talking
Speaker 1: top you know tops, it's like Benson, it's kind of
Speaker 1: a given, Like you don't have to bring up Benson.
Speaker 1: It's like she's just the show. But Munch is definitely
Speaker 1: my Yeah, what are you talking about? But and I
Speaker 1: get to have Cabot or Novak, but for Novak to
Speaker 1: be the number one character of Sview history is just
Speaker 1: inappropriate even though we love her.
Speaker 2: Wait, that is crazy that gray Lick is in the credits.
Speaker 2: But this is a cabin episode. I think gray Lick's
Speaker 2: gone by now.
Speaker 1: Oh that's so funny. So they kicked her out but
Speaker 1: they kept her in the credit. Yeah, I think she
Speaker 1: was episode twenty one. I think she leaves earlier in
Speaker 1: the season. Oh my god, amazing, amazing. So we're back.
Speaker 1: I just that list. I don't even know who made
Speaker 1: that list, was just like a random person or a magazine,
Speaker 1: like I don't know, but that woman was very funny
Speaker 1: on the TikTok. So thanks everyone that sent it to us.
Speaker 1: And Pam said, okay, So then now we're talking to Pam.
Speaker 1: We're back from this like magical credits moment, and Pam
Speaker 1: is like, that is not my screen name. That's not me,
Speaker 1: and Benson goes, no, no, I believe you do not get it,
Speaker 1: twisted girl, But we got to figure this out. Benson goes,
Speaker 1: this dude had your address and she's like, I didn't
Speaker 1: even know there were rape fantasy sites. So they're gonna
Speaker 1: check all the computers and she's like, well, you won't
Speaker 1: find anything online. And then stablers with a tech with
Speaker 1: a sexy haircut in frames and her name is Linda
Speaker 1: part the actress. Her name on the show is Taru Tech.
Speaker 1: But she's in twenty six episodes of BOSH, so I
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember her, but she's working. She's
Speaker 1: out there. But she was only a Tararu Tech once
Speaker 1: and okay, no name, no name in this. So then
Speaker 1: Stabler's like anyone else able to use this computer? And
Speaker 1: she goes, no why and Stabler waves are over and
Speaker 1: it's a bunch of naked photos of her and she goes,
Speaker 1: this is fake. This is fake, and she leaps at
Speaker 1: the keyboard and the tech is like, back off, bitch,
Speaker 1: this is evidence. And there's just like all this porn
Speaker 1: child abuse images, all these naked photos of her and videos,
Speaker 1: and so it's like it's really wild, and both parties
Speaker 1: are sticking to their story and Finn is leading the
Speaker 1: all hands on deck meeting at the precinct. Munch thinks
Speaker 1: Owen is suspicious because he does troll rape fantasy websites often,
Speaker 1: and is this something to discuss? Is this what you're
Speaker 1: talking about in the true crime Like is this good? Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I am clearly a rapist, but.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna talk about it a bit, Yes, And also,
Speaker 2: Linda Park in Bosh plays Lance Reddick's second wife, so
Speaker 2: his first wife is Jeffrey's aka Michelle Hurd. She was
Speaker 2: recast with another wife as the same wife. They get
Speaker 2: divorced and he's with Linda Park. She's wonderful, she's a
Speaker 2: great actor. She's in a lot of stuff. Anyway, just
Speaker 2: a little side note. I didn't want to know what
Speaker 2: to think.
Speaker 1: I was dropping my BOSH responsibilities and this fucking podcast.
Speaker 1: I know Jesus christ is Bosh coming forgot. If you
Speaker 1: guys know him email, I got his personal email. If
Speaker 1: you know him, please let him know that we are
Speaker 1: not doing his episode without him, and he better fucking
Speaker 1: get to it. We have a lot of questions, but
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, they've done so many episodes now
Speaker 1: about sort of this, Like it's really hard because I
Speaker 1: don't think there's a name for it. Like what is
Speaker 1: it called when you like sort of catfish someone into
Speaker 1: a rape scenario, you know what I mean? Like there was.
Speaker 2: Something called like, oh god, I was looking it up
Speaker 2: last sear well intent yes, but that was like, yes,
Speaker 2: that was it, but that wasn't necessarily like a rape.
Speaker 1: It was like he didn't know like, that's the same thing.
Speaker 1: Nobody thought she wanted a rape fantasy and they.
Speaker 2: Were both getting double catfished, right, It wasn't like one
Speaker 2: person was totally out of it.
Speaker 1: Like I think they were. Yeah, it is similar. It
Speaker 1: intent is totally similar.
Speaker 2: And then it's basically what happened in that second episode
Speaker 2: that Amy Landecker did where actually actually her third episode
Speaker 2: where she just came back in the most recent season
Speaker 2: where her husband set her up to be attacked, but
Speaker 2: that was based.
Speaker 1: On the Frenchwoman and then this one.
Speaker 2: I'll get into it later, but it's like I because
Speaker 2: there's rape by proxy, where an attacker makes another person
Speaker 2: attack someone, but that's kind of like the episode that
Speaker 2: we did where somebody called and said, I'm from the FBI,
Speaker 2: take that girl's clothes off. Do this start like oh
Speaker 2: the Robin Williams. Yes, that's like authority. That's like make
Speaker 2: rape by proxies a little bit different. I cannot find
Speaker 2: a name of what it is when you like set
Speaker 2: someone up to be raped, to be raped like a
Speaker 2: in a catfishing type scenario.
Speaker 1: That's one sided. But yeah, I'm also fine with it
Speaker 1: being someone's fantasy of wanting to be attacked in like
Speaker 1: a controlled way. I don't like someone trolling to do
Speaker 1: fake rape, like I don't like that. Yes, well we'll
Speaker 1: get into this more. Also when I but, yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: I assumed you were going to get into it. But
Speaker 1: obviously I have so many questions discussion. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I have a lot of thoughts and but no thoughts
Speaker 1: at all. Truly, I'm uttering here. I have no thoughts.
Speaker 1: I'd like to be told what to think. Please tell
Speaker 1: me what's the thing. And while Finn is about to say,
Speaker 1: she denies it. But her computer has tons of all
Speaker 1: you know this stuff. So the tech runs in right
Speaker 1: as they're discussing, like the victim's computer, And so Linda
Speaker 1: Park runs in and she goes the computer lied. She
Speaker 1: found a trojan horse, which is a cyber back door,
Speaker 1: and she doesn't think it's Owen because he did not
Speaker 1: have any spyware on his computer. So what do we
Speaker 1: do now. Craigan's like, you know, rape is rape, so
Speaker 1: fuck Owen. Arrest him. And Munch's like, but it's a
Speaker 1: fantasy community. There's different lingo and rules. But also, if
Speaker 1: it's not this guy Owen, we need to find the
Speaker 1: mastermind who set her up to be raped. Benson and
Speaker 1: Stabler are with Pam at the park and I paused
Speaker 1: it to type and there's just like a yellow lab
Speaker 1: in a cage at the bottom right of the shot,
Speaker 1: and he looks pissed to be in there, but like
Speaker 1: so cute because it's the dog. And I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I guess there's a cage dog. And then the victim
Speaker 1: is in a classic, you know, trench and she says
Speaker 1: it must have been my crazy ex Tighl Brunson two
Speaker 1: years ago they broke up. And then now we see
Speaker 1: a lot of cages with dogs and it's an adoption
Speaker 1: event and she wants to adopt a dog for protection.
Speaker 1: And she's like, is this one ferocious enough? And it's
Speaker 1: truly a beagle. It's like it's like a chunky beagle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she goes, is this one gonna protect me? But Benson,
Speaker 1: I actually learned something here, Benson says, most people are
Speaker 1: scared just by the bark. You don't need like a
Speaker 1: dog bite. Yeah, yeah, but but it's just like the
Speaker 1: floppy eared little guy. She's like, well, this protect me.
Speaker 1: So after he like after she dumped him, this guy
Speaker 1: he would email her text her twenty four to seven,
Speaker 1: she changed her number. He would get the new one,
Speaker 1: he would show up at her house, at her job.
Speaker 1: And then after a year and a half of stocking,
Speaker 1: she decided to leave Rhode Island and she left her friends,
Speaker 1: a good job, family, like fucking everything. And she is
Speaker 1: really upset. She's like, he fucking trucked me down. I
Speaker 1: can't afford to move again. She's spinning out, you know,
Speaker 1: is he here? And Benson says, don't worry, we'll find him.
Speaker 1: So Benson's back with Stabler and you know, everyone at
Speaker 1: the precinct and she's like, you know, this guy's an
Speaker 1: S for you, trifecta, stalking child porn, orchestrating a rape?
Speaker 1: Is that a merch? I don't know, S for you trifecta.
Speaker 1: And then for orchestrating a rape, we can turn one
Speaker 1: of the letters into like an orchestra instrument, oh a little,
Speaker 1: just some fun. You can't even fake it. Maybe the
Speaker 1: A can be a triangle? Yeah, I don't know. So
Speaker 1: they have to figure out, like, is it the X?
Speaker 1: Is it? Tyler? And Munch goes ding ding ding. He
Speaker 1: is here and we see him on the screen and
Speaker 1: it's an id, and it says Tyler Brunson, Rhode Island,
Speaker 1: but that's only three hours away. And then Munch is like, listen,
Speaker 1: I checked in with conn Edison. This dude just got
Speaker 1: his electricity turned on and his new digs in New York.
Speaker 1: And if you looked at this man's face and went wait,
Speaker 1: was he also in a sex in the city, you
Speaker 1: were right. He goes on a date with Charlotte when
Speaker 1: she decides to double like a double book, so she
Speaker 1: has an early dinner and a late dinner. He brings
Speaker 1: her the soup. He goes, well, you got the night shift.
Speaker 1: I brought you a soup. So that's him. So we're
Speaker 1: gonna see more of him, obviously. So the apartment where
Speaker 1: the connet is turned on right across the street from her,
Speaker 1: right across the street from Pam. But they still need
Speaker 1: a warrant and Benson's like, yeah, Cabit's on it. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna give Pam a heads up though, and she's so stressed.
Speaker 1: Her savings is gone, and Benson goes, we are going
Speaker 1: to get him, and she goes, no, you don't understand.
Speaker 1: Just getting a restraining order on him was so fucking hard,
Speaker 1: and she's like, I wish she would fucking hit me,
Speaker 1: because Benson goes, did he he's ever been physically abusive?
Speaker 1: She goes, I fucking wish it'd be easier to like
Speaker 1: get the courts or anyone. I mean, And that's like
Speaker 1: a fucked up society in world where you would rather
Speaker 1: someone hit you so someone will help you. I like
Speaker 1: hate it, okay, So anyways, she goes, yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know what his problem is. He has daddy issues, control issues,
Speaker 1: abandonment issues, anger issues, it's everything. And every time he
Speaker 1: broke the order he was able to convince the judge
Speaker 1: it was a coincidence. And Benson keeps trying to make
Speaker 1: her feel optimistic, and she's like, shut up, he is
Speaker 1: never gonna leave me alone. And she did take the
Speaker 1: cute dog, so the cute dog is with her from
Speaker 1: the park adoption of ends, so that's really exciting. And
Speaker 1: Benson asks if the Rhode Island restraining order is still
Speaker 1: in effect, but she goes, I don't know, because I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to give them my address if I move, and
Speaker 1: I didn't do that. And that's what's crazy, because it's
Speaker 1: like your soccer needs to know where your new address.
Speaker 1: So then they don't come close to your address. What like,
Speaker 1: how is that? Okay, they've done that in other episodes.
Speaker 2: They're like, they have to know where you live so
Speaker 2: that they can stay away from it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm telling you Castration needs to be back in
Speaker 1: the in the vibe, back in Stalking Castration. I bet
Speaker 1: people would behave I mean, I don't know, maybe obviously
Speaker 1: not Like the death penalty doesn't stop people from committing
Speaker 1: cris not a deterrent. Not a deterreent. That's the way. Okay.
Speaker 1: So then Benson says, we'll get you another one here.
Speaker 1: So Cabot is knocking on like a judge's chambers, and
Speaker 1: then like the judge Coohler, this other judge comes coming
Speaker 1: down the marble steps of the courthouse and he's like,
Speaker 1: what's up, babe, And he goes, I have fifteen minute recess.
Speaker 1: I'm happy to help if you need something, and she
Speaker 1: and then he asks what are you doing on Saturday?
Speaker 1: I ran a civics class at a juvenile detention center
Speaker 1: and we need a guest speaker. And she goes, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I'll be there Saturday. Can you sign this warrant? And
Speaker 1: he goes no. He goes that's illegal, like we can't
Speaker 1: do quid pro quo like shit like that. So we
Speaker 1: tricked her into agreeing to speak and now refuses to
Speaker 1: sign the thing, and Cabot's pleading and talks about Pam's
Speaker 1: safety and well being, and we find out in this
Speaker 1: conversation that he has a son that was murdered thirty
Speaker 1: years ago. So that's sad. And what also, I think
Speaker 1: that Cabot was looking for a different judge. She was yeah, right, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: she was like at a door of some other guy
Speaker 1: and this guy just like walked down the stairs. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So then he can't require him to move, but he'll
Speaker 1: allow a temporary order of protection, which she has the
Speaker 1: right to appeal. And then he says see Saturday and
Speaker 1: walks off. So we get to this guy's house and
Speaker 1: Stable gives him the paper in his apartment and he
Speaker 1: acts stupid like no freaking idea, like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: Pam lives here, and Siburr goes, we know you're a freak,
Speaker 1: so please stop whatever you're doing. So and he's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what Pam is saying, but I dumped her,
Speaker 1: and Finn goes, okay, then why does she have a
Speaker 1: restraining order, and he says, well, she couldn't take the
Speaker 1: rejection and it's revenge, and I didn't move for her.
Speaker 1: I followed a big job. I have a contract at
Speaker 1: the DoD. I do computer training and that's you know,
Speaker 1: Department of Defense. And it's revenge. Though she arranged for
Speaker 1: her own attack and to go to the hospital and
Speaker 1: get a rape kit and buy a dog and it
Speaker 1: was all for revenge. Yeah, undred percent. This is what
Speaker 1: women do. They're crazy, like so many of our like
Speaker 1: the way we view things is through such a fucked
Speaker 1: up lens, but we accept it. It's like none of
Speaker 1: it makes sense. She's doing it for attention, and it's like,
Speaker 1: how did this become like an actual thing that is used?
Speaker 1: Like that's what's so shocking to me. There's you know,
Speaker 1: men like to claim that they're so logical, but it's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, none of these things are logical that
Speaker 1: you guys are claiming. Stabler is not buying any of this, obviously,
Speaker 1: but you know, stranger things have happened. Okay, So then
Speaker 1: they asked to see his computer. He goes for sure,
Speaker 1: but Finn notices his computer as a label that says
Speaker 1: unclassified and he has a classified one, so like, we're
Speaker 1: gonna need that one too, but he goes, no, I
Speaker 1: have top secret clearance and I know you guys, don't
Speaker 1: so stop, and Finn goes, yeah, we'll get it, don't
Speaker 1: you worry, and we'll see what's gonna happen. And then
Speaker 1: Tyler like walks over to the window and goes, wow,
Speaker 1: so she's on the third floor, freaky, you had to
Speaker 1: tell her the floor like, I don't understand why. Stabler
Speaker 1: gets in his face super close and says, I don't
Speaker 1: know what's going on here, but you need to get
Speaker 1: some help and move on and follow the order and
Speaker 1: don't bother her again. Munch is popping off on the
Speaker 1: phone back at home base, and he goes, fine, ah,
Speaker 1: I have my superiors call your superiors and bad news, guys,
Speaker 1: This DoD job is legit. And the computer doesn't leave
Speaker 1: the department and like we can't get into it. Benson
Speaker 1: answers her phone and we hear her ask what the
Speaker 1: name of the hospital is and its Tribeca Emergency Animal Hospital.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Benson and Stabler are on the scene.
Speaker 1: What happened Basically, she ran home on her lunch break
Speaker 1: to walk the dog. She ran right into him. He
Speaker 1: tried hugging her, and she tried walking away. He grabbed
Speaker 1: her throat and said, don't you dare ignore me. If
Speaker 1: you think rape is bad, you haven't seen anything. She
Speaker 1: tried to scream, but he was squeezing too tight, and
Speaker 1: then the dog did do what she wanted. Like the
Speaker 1: dog kept barking and barking, and then Tyler's pant leg
Speaker 1: and did not let go until he let go of Pam,
Speaker 1: and he broke three ribs of the dog, but he
Speaker 1: wouldn't let go no matter how hard. Tyler kicked this dog.
Speaker 1: So she picked the right dog, and but poor baby
Speaker 1: has some broken ribs. So we're obviously in cement room bars.
Speaker 1: Stabler's playing with his watch to assert dominance because both
Speaker 1: of his shirt sleeves are already folded up, but he
Speaker 1: has to like force casualness, and he goes, what didn't
Speaker 1: you understand? And Benson's sitting there as well, and he's
Speaker 1: like so mad about the bite marks, and like it's
Speaker 1: crazy that both him and Owen, like all these men
Speaker 1: need more attention for their physical injuries than the woman
Speaker 1: that is fully being attacked you know, yeah, and he
Speaker 1: cries about rabies and Benson goes, oh, I don't think
Speaker 1: you gave the dog Rabi's don't worry haha.
Speaker 2: It's also like hilarious that with all of Stabler's experience,
Speaker 2: he's like, if I just tell this guy to move
Speaker 2: on and leave this girl alone, he'll do it.
Speaker 1: Like that's not how psychomen are.
Speaker 2: They keep doing it until they kill her, Like that's
Speaker 2: how it is, Like, Oh, I just gave him a
Speaker 2: stern talking to you and told him it was time
Speaker 2: to move on from Pam.
Speaker 1: And it worked. It has happened never on this show.
Speaker 1: And then but then Tyler goes, I was defending myself
Speaker 1: from both of those bitches. And Stabler is like, oh,
Speaker 1: so she's a bitch because you ran into her on
Speaker 1: a sidewalk and lost it. And he says, I don't
Speaker 1: lose control, and he's like wagging his head around, he's
Speaker 1: putting his foot on the table. He's very animated, and
Speaker 1: he's acting a fool, and Benson goes, no, you have
Speaker 1: a lot of problems with control. Your former employer, Immersed Enterprises,
Speaker 1: wasn't going to renew your contract a few years back,
Speaker 1: so you had a slip and fall one like a
Speaker 1: big workers comp settlement, But like, I don't know why
Speaker 1: that like proves anything, like fuck corporations get money. I
Speaker 1: don't care, like if you were injured. I just think
Speaker 1: Benson lost us here for me at least. But she
Speaker 1: does have a good point, like you go nuts anytime
Speaker 1: someone rejects you, and that is her point. She goes,
Speaker 1: you need payback, and Stabler's like, you took that photo
Speaker 1: of Pam photoshopped it to be nude because we had
Speaker 1: it enhanced and Pam recognized your bedroom and we sent
Speaker 1: it to the Providence PD to verify. And he's starting
Speaker 1: to look nervous in the face and a little craze
Speaker 1: and then tense music plays and Cabot and Craigan are
Speaker 1: spying and she's like, hey, you didn't tell me we
Speaker 1: have something off the enhancement, and Craigan goes, we don't.
Speaker 1: Then he finally like kind of caves and says, she
Speaker 1: conned me into believing that she loved me. I was
Speaker 1: going to marry her. Well this time I'm done. I
Speaker 1: swear we're even now, and Cabin goes not by a
Speaker 1: long shot. Buddy and Craigan goes, I love the dumb ones.
Speaker 1: And so now we're back with the judge and it's
Speaker 1: Cabot and Hashi Horowitz and they're arguing and so like
Speaker 1: it's but police are allowed to lie. But he wants
Speaker 1: the confession thrown out. You know, it's all the stuff,
Speaker 1: the same stuff, and Cabot has under eyeliner and I
Speaker 1: love it, YadA YadA. They're fighting, throw it out, keep
Speaker 1: it in. And so now we're going to actually do
Speaker 1: the huntly hearing and it is granted, and it's to
Speaker 1: see if the questioning was legit and should be left
Speaker 1: in or not. So we're in court and Stabler's on
Speaker 1: the stand for this hearing and haw, she's like, my
Speaker 1: client asks for medical attention, yes, and Stanborg goes yeah
Speaker 1: for the scratch on his leg l ol, and haw,
Speaker 1: she's overdoing it about the wound and now they should
Speaker 1: have helped him, and Stabler goes, his pants were ripped.
Speaker 1: Should I have gotten him a tailor as well. The
Speaker 1: judge doesn't like it and he goes save the jokes
Speaker 1: for open Mic Night. Okay, relatable, uh cav It's like
Speaker 1: the defendant never got help for his wound ever, so
Speaker 1: why is this being brought up now? You know there's
Speaker 1: been like no treatment of this even after bail. So
Speaker 1: he's so injured the cops should have gotten him medical
Speaker 1: attention that he's never once since gotten help for he
Speaker 1: did not go to the doctor. The judge is addressing
Speaker 1: him and asks if he got medical care, and he's
Speaker 1: acting like a powdy child arms crossed adult bowl Cut
Speaker 1: and he says he has no intention in participating in
Speaker 1: this travesty, and the judge goes, well, that's a shame
Speaker 1: because in this country, well not anymore, but you had
Speaker 1: a presumption of innocence guaranteed, And the lawyer says, don't worry,
Speaker 1: I'm moving on anyways. So then Hash's talking to Stabler
Speaker 1: and goes, did you say that, like this guy's wasted
Speaker 1: enough of his life on PAM And he goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: I said that, but like that's not my fault that
Speaker 1: mister Bowlcut thought that that meant not all the charges
Speaker 1: would be dropped. It's like a crazy leap. I just
Speaker 1: Stabler breaks the law all the time and is crazy,
Speaker 1: But in this capacity, Tyler is the one that like misinterpreted.
Speaker 1: I thought what was going on? They just did classic lies,
Speaker 1: but saying you're wasted enough of your life, get over
Speaker 1: it does not mean we're not going to charge you
Speaker 1: for orchestrating a rape against your eggs and breaking a
Speaker 1: restraining order. Tyler stands up. He's obviously not well, and
Speaker 1: he starts grand standing right, and you know it, calls
Speaker 1: the court a joke. Benson sees him running away and
Speaker 1: down the stairs, and finally two uniform cops grab him,
Speaker 1: and we're back in court at the bench. So it's Cabot,
Speaker 1: Hashi and angry boy, and Cabot wants remand since Brunson
Speaker 1: obviously violated his bail agreement and fled the courtroom, and
Speaker 1: the defense is like, oh, come on, he's new to
Speaker 1: the criminal justice system. How is he to know you
Speaker 1: can't run out of court whenever you want mid trial.
Speaker 3: And with all the people screaming stop, stop now, and
Speaker 3: Cabot's like, he has restraining orders and orders of protection,
Speaker 3: like he has criminal activities, so like stop whatever, whatever
Speaker 3: you're trying to do is not working.
Speaker 1: The judge reprimands both lawyers for talking over each other,
Speaker 1: and they apologize, like scold the little children as well,
Speaker 1: and the judge talks and says, obviously, we can't trust
Speaker 1: this man to come back to court on his own volition,
Speaker 1: so I'm revoking the bail and he is gonna be
Speaker 1: held in remand Tyler starts flipping out, screaming I have rights.
Speaker 1: Cabot says, you can have a toothbrush. He screams at him,
Speaker 1: you're a corrupt piece of garbage. And the judge is like,
Speaker 1: go do some soul searching in jail and think about
Speaker 1: how you're gonna, you know, like, how your conduct is
Speaker 1: actually gonna affect the jury. And he responds, considering yours.
Speaker 1: While the bailiff tries to get him away, he says
Speaker 1: a tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny.
Speaker 1: I love that quote, and I feel like we're seeing
Speaker 1: it constantly all the time, and not even like tyrant.
Speaker 1: We're living it. But it's not even just the tyrant,
Speaker 1: like the tyrants. Fans are constantly finding pretext for this
Speaker 1: and none of it makes sense. Yeah, you know, it's
Speaker 1: just like such a relevant quote. I'm like very into
Speaker 1: it because it was well, they didn't come here legally,
Speaker 1: and now it's people in courts that are legal, and
Speaker 1: then it's like, oh, well, this and that they'll come
Speaker 1: up with whatever, whatever, they don't care yepugh, So that
Speaker 1: confuses the judge. She says, excuse me, and Tyler is
Speaker 1: yelling like, did Pam pay you to do this? To
Speaker 1: mek So this guy out of his mind. Yeah. Yeah, Pam,
Speaker 1: who doesn't have a savings anymore, paid the courts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what happened. He's deranged, he's getting dragged out and
Speaker 1: he's like, how was the cheap whore? Huh okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the judge's fucking Pam. So now at home base, Munch
Speaker 1: asks to leave early and get a jump on traffic
Speaker 1: because he's leaving with his girl for the weekend. I'm shook.
Speaker 1: I am sure.
Speaker 2: Where do we think Munch is going for the weekend?
Speaker 2: Do we think Hampton Poconos? Yep, He's going to the
Speaker 2: Pocono Poconos. But that's such a long drive, Like maybe
Speaker 2: he is just going to the Rockaways, Like where is
Speaker 2: he going to merit?
Speaker 1: Like what? Because he's leaving with his girl? And who
Speaker 1: is this girl? Not his wife, not one of his wife?
Speaker 1: Who is it? Who do you think he's dating? Where
Speaker 1: are they going? Beat? But I don't think he would beach, Like,
Speaker 1: I can't imagine Munch at the beach. Did he when
Speaker 1: is the Carol Caine episode?
Speaker 2: I feel like maybe he reconnected with like that Zebrus
Speaker 2: she got back off her meds sebs.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I'm like so interested. Maybe upstate, maybe one
Speaker 1: of those hippie towns like Beacon or something, or what's
Speaker 1: suck like to you know, she likes the vintage shop,
Speaker 1: and then we'll lead a you know, a farm to
Speaker 1: table born. I just can't imagine him on vacation or
Speaker 1: taking off his shades or his suit, Like, I really
Speaker 1: can't the liberty Zebrasus. The next episode, oh whoa?
Speaker 2: And the next episode he does like run into his
Speaker 2: old girlfriend Gwen.
Speaker 1: Wonder this girlfriends it's funny.
Speaker 2: I wonder if multiple episodes in a row that involved
Speaker 2: Bunch's love life.
Speaker 1: But I wonder if Munch's girlfriend's like, what the fuck
Speaker 1: are you doing with Carol Kane and he's like, it's
Speaker 1: for a case. I'm telling you, she's ill. She slapped
Speaker 1: me today, she's my eggs. I am assassination for him.
Speaker 1: That's actually what they're fucking doing. I bet they're going
Speaker 1: to the Holocaust Museum Info Festival. Or something. Yeah, they're
Speaker 1: gonna go look at military boats. It's like, yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: Craigan hates to stand in the way of young love. No,
Speaker 1: but but he said, we're shorthanded and need you and
Speaker 1: fucking bellser is annoyed. And do you think he already
Speaker 1: booked the hotel? Is he gonna get cashed back? Is
Speaker 1: his girl gonna take a friend? He's gonna work all weekend? Like,
Speaker 1: is he gonna call out to break up? He's about
Speaker 1: to lose the girl.
Speaker 2: I mean like he's like, she if you're not taking
Speaker 2: me to the Poconos, as you said, this is the
Speaker 2: last chance, monk.
Speaker 1: But Benson and Saylor need to be in court and
Speaker 1: so you know, rapes never stop, so we need you
Speaker 1: and Benson. Okay, So then Bunch really wants to go
Speaker 1: on this vacation. So he goes to Benson goes, any
Speaker 1: chance will be a last minute and minute like plead out,
Speaker 1: And Benson looks horrified and goes, well, I hope not, Munch.
Speaker 1: It's but I don't know if he pleads guilty, why not?
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, Let Munch fuck is that merch?
Speaker 1: Let munch fuck? Rest in peace, Staylor's on the phone
Speaker 1: while Benson and Munch banter, and he stands up while
Speaker 1: gripping the phone and says, I'll be right over, sir. No,
Speaker 1: not a problem at all. He hangs up, and he's like,
Speaker 1: what do I do now? Judge Kohler, not even his clerk,
Speaker 1: wants me to stop by. So Stabler goes to the
Speaker 1: judge and he's really scared he's in trouble. And the
Speaker 1: judge does confirm that, you know, like, hey, I looked
Speaker 1: at your file after court, and he's like, listen, my
Speaker 1: investigation was clean. And the judge goes, yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I know, but I've seen you've crossed the line in
Speaker 1: the past a lot. Silba goes, yeah, those are hard situations,
Speaker 1: and I had to make the decisions, and I made them.
Speaker 1: The judge closes the file. He gets up and says,
Speaker 1: when wiser men, I mean, this motherfucker has a quote
Speaker 1: for everything. So this judge goes, when wiser men than
Speaker 1: you or I set up our system of rights and protections.
Speaker 1: They gave them to all men, not just by on
Speaker 1: case by case basis. Okay, Silbia goes, are you trying
Speaker 1: to say a liability to the Brunson trial, Like what
Speaker 1: do you want and he goes, no, no, no, no. Stabler's
Speaker 1: so confused. The judge goes, I'm trying to hire you.
Speaker 1: And then when he hears that, like everyone takes a seat,
Speaker 1: like what is happening? He goes, thirty years ago, my
Speaker 1: wife and I took our three year old son, Marshall
Speaker 1: and a picnic while Shawna was helping me edit my
Speaker 1: law book. The kid went to play with other children
Speaker 1: and we've never seen him again, and he's really upset.
Speaker 1: And Stabler remembers when they caught the killer and judge goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: seven years later, when he was disposing of his twelfth victim.
Speaker 1: My son was his fourth. But like this was before DNA,
Speaker 1: nobody made a pattern, and this guy was a trucker
Speaker 1: and he was just like ready to pop. So once
Speaker 1: he got arrested, this this killer, this pedophile, kid snatching murder,
Speaker 1: he gave tons of details, gruesome details, every depraved act,
Speaker 1: except he never gave up their locations. But every few years,
Speaker 1: one lucky couple would be led to their child's remains
Speaker 1: in exchange for a few creature comforts, the judge says.
Speaker 1: But the judge is still waiting for his turn, and
Speaker 1: he's the last one. And this guy has twelve life
Speaker 1: sentences and so he really hates judges and Stabler size
Speaker 1: and Stabler goes, I'll get it out of him, and
Speaker 1: the judge goes, I'm not asking you to break the
Speaker 1: rule of law. But you know, Stabler's gone. Stabler's ready,
Speaker 1: and this killer is dying Fazima, and like the judge
Speaker 1: just cannot die without burying his son. Okay, so the
Speaker 1: killer's dying of him Phyzima, And then the judges thinking
Speaker 1: about his own mortality and is like, I have to
Speaker 1: bury my son before I die. But I love how
Speaker 1: the judge goes, you know, the Constitution was created for
Speaker 1: all men. Everybody has to act the same. But I
Speaker 1: love that you break the rules all the time, and
Speaker 1: I need you to do a little dirty work for me.
Speaker 2: And I'm a judge with extra extra privilege, so help
Speaker 2: me out. Like it's just hilarious, Like this guy's trying
Speaker 2: to be so moral, and then he's like, now I
Speaker 2: found the most loose cannon cop I could who's not
Speaker 2: gonna get too messy.
Speaker 1: You know, I also don't even think he knows. He
Speaker 1: just loves a quote. He I bet his instagram is
Speaker 1: all quotes, his pinterriss I.
Speaker 2: Also love a guy who's murdered, like twelve fucking kids
Speaker 2: disposed of their bodies, horrible thing.
Speaker 1: And he's like, I just hate judges.
Speaker 2: They're just giving me too long of a sentence from
Speaker 2: my twelve horrible crimes.
Speaker 1: Like, come on, it's not fair. I should be able
Speaker 1: to murder any kid I want. So we're back in
Speaker 1: court and the judge has coins on his desk and
Speaker 1: he's playing with these coins and talking more quotes. It's
Speaker 1: a very poetic judge. So he's organizing the coins and
Speaker 1: he's talking about Thomas Jefferson, who I think has not
Speaker 1: aged well his legacy. We don't love the guy. Okay, Soart,
Speaker 1: it's time to start this fucking trial though, But the
Speaker 1: defense wants a sidebar and Cabot, with a pop of
Speaker 1: green under her black suit, they approached the bench and
Speaker 1: he's like, mister Horois, really already a problem this soon,
Speaker 1: and he goes, listen, I'm concerned for my client's health.
Speaker 1: He's been on a hunger strike. And Cabot's like, okay,
Speaker 1: Gandhi get a grip and the judge says the law
Speaker 1: requires that he be fit to participate in his own defense,
Speaker 1: and he doesn't want him passing out in open court.
Speaker 1: He's like, listen, I'll talk to him on his lunch break.
Speaker 1: So step back, let's get started opening statements. But then
Speaker 1: instead he grabs his phone and then goes actually a
Speaker 1: fifteen minute break. Never mind, so he stops court to
Speaker 1: make a call. It's not like Stabler's even calling him.
Speaker 1: He stops opening statements for a fifteen minute recess, like
Speaker 1: this is where you've truly a text.
Speaker 2: But he doesn't have a text. They zoom in on
Speaker 2: his like very old ass phone and he doesn't have
Speaker 2: a text.
Speaker 1: And okay, so now we're with an old man with
Speaker 1: tubes in a cement room double window, you know, we're
Speaker 1: in prison. And the guy goes, ah, yeah, nice, try
Speaker 1: to Stabler, but stable like flips his phone shut on
Speaker 1: the judge. And the evil guy goes, that's Marshall's daddy,
Speaker 1: wasn't it, And you should let me talk to him.
Speaker 1: I would have told him I was sweet. This his
Speaker 1: boy was pudgy little thing like making love to a big, squishy,
Speaker 1: squeaky toy. I mean, this guy's gross and then he laughs,
Speaker 1: but then it turns into a gross m you can
Speaker 1: see like spit cough, like it's really gross, and he's like, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: you're tough. That usually gets a rise out of people.
Speaker 1: He goes, yeah, I've had my fair share of kitty
Speaker 1: diddlers like Stabler's unfazed and goes, you're a member of
Speaker 1: NAMBLA and the guy goes, I'm no homo. I like
Speaker 1: boys and girls. They're the same at that age. No
Speaker 1: grass on the field. So just you know, they're really
Speaker 1: painting the guy out to be a monster. Obviously. Steeler
Speaker 1: sits on the table and says, you're two feet in
Speaker 1: the grave. How about you make you know, make it
Speaker 1: right for everyone. And he says, Oh, what you don't
Speaker 1: understand is I'm not afraid of hell. I'm actually looking
Speaker 1: forward to it. And so then we jump back to
Speaker 1: court and Owen from like the rapists from the beginning
Speaker 1: of the episode, he's so annoying. He like hates it.
Speaker 1: He goes, I'm I'm as much of a victim as
Speaker 1: Pam is she dated the pig. I'm just an innocent
Speaker 1: third party. And the judges like broke. Miss Cabot has
Speaker 1: asked you numerous times to confine your answers to the question.
Speaker 1: You were not even on trial here, but the judges
Speaker 1: like distracted. He keeps staring at Tyler. He can't stop
Speaker 1: staring at Tyler. And Cabot and the rapists talk about
Speaker 1: photos and the chats and they talk for two weeks.
Speaker 1: He thought it was a woman. They read the transcript
Speaker 1: from the chat. You know, it's like full court is happening.
Speaker 1: It's describing what she wants. I want this tap and
Speaker 1: I want that to happen middle of the night. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna fight you off with all my might. You need
Speaker 1: to overpower me. And the judge keeps checking his phone.
Speaker 1: It's eleven nineteen. Now we're back at the prison and
Speaker 1: Sailor starts playing with the guy's oxygen tank like the tubes,
Speaker 1: so he's squeezing. He's squeezing the tubes clothes cutting off
Speaker 1: his oxygen. And I wrote, Lol, but I guess it's
Speaker 1: not a laughing matter. It is a new It is
Speaker 1: a new low for Stabler. Just full oxygen shortens. Oh
Speaker 1: did he not do that to Brian Dennehy No, I
Speaker 1: don't think so.
Speaker 2: Brian Denney just kept passing out from morphine or whatever.
Speaker 2: He just like he he'll choke you physically, but if
Speaker 2: you're on oxygen, you're making it easy for him because
Speaker 2: he's just gonna.
Speaker 1: Binge off that little tube. So the guy obviously has
Speaker 1: labored breathing and goes, let go, I can't tell you
Speaker 1: if I'm dead, moron, and Sala goes, yeah, that's why
Speaker 1: you should tell me now. I mean, Staylor's stone cold
Speaker 1: in this. He's gonna kill those dudes. And this guy
Speaker 1: starts struggling hard, grabbing for the tubes, and Silber goes,
Speaker 1: I thought you weren't scared to die. And then the
Speaker 1: guy says I can't breathe, and Sailor says I'm not
Speaker 1: and the guy goes, fine, I'll tell you, and he
Speaker 1: gasps and he gets he gets his breath back, and
Speaker 1: Sabler wants the location, but he says I need my
Speaker 1: breath back, give me a second, and Saylor says, I
Speaker 1: don't think so, and squeezes it again. Wait, and who
Speaker 1: is this guy? Because he gives me the vibe of
Speaker 1: the Bell guy from Breaking Bad, even though I know
Speaker 1: it's not the Bell guy. Yeah, yeah, but I'm imagining
Speaker 1: it is similar vibe.
Speaker 2: He was an actor named Victor Arnold, playing Royally Dotson,
Speaker 2: and he he passed away in twenty twelve.
Speaker 1: But he was a.
Speaker 2: Actor in a lot of stuff. I guess a bunch
Speaker 2: of movies. Yeah, I don't know, forty movies from fifty
Speaker 2: six to twenty eleven, The Edge of Night, the Best
Speaker 2: of Everything.
Speaker 1: He was in soap operas. Oh, it was in Serproco,
Speaker 1: the TV series I Go Wow Surproco. I just needed
Speaker 1: to confirm it wasn't the Bell guy, even though I
Speaker 1: knew in all my deep, darkest soul it's not. They're
Speaker 1: different faces, they are different men, you know. It's just
Speaker 1: like yes, So anyways, we're back. The judge will not
Speaker 1: stop looking at Tyler, like you can see Tyler is
Speaker 1: even like what the fuck? And then now we have
Speaker 1: Stabler rushing to his car on the phone with Live
Speaker 1: telling her to grab Warner and meet at the pool
Speaker 1: outside the Bedford Rec Center. So the judge gets a
Speaker 1: text from Stabler, and the Judge does apologize he's so distracted,
Speaker 1: and Cabot's noticing him be distracted and gives an objection
Speaker 1: and like he's not even paying attention. Cabot has to
Speaker 1: be like, excuse me, objection, and he just goes, oh uh, overruled,
Speaker 1: and then he goes, you know what, we have to
Speaker 1: stop core. It's adjourned till Monday. And then the judge
Speaker 1: runs to the pool and live is there, going I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry, judge, Roy lied. Marshall's not here, and the
Speaker 1: judge says, of course not. One should always be wary
Speaker 1: by information obtained by force. But Benson says, we did
Speaker 1: find something, and she tries to stop him, but he
Speaker 1: pushes through. So Warner's in there, and basically she says,
Speaker 1: you lost your boy in nineteen seventy nine, and I
Speaker 1: believe Roy left his remains here for a few months,
Speaker 1: but then moved them before the pool opened that summer.
Speaker 1: But post body fats break down into whatever a chemical
Speaker 1: and when that combines with acid based cleansers, it leaves
Speaker 1: a distinctive white stain and the judge is confused. But
Speaker 1: then we look down on the cement and there's like
Speaker 1: a white stain of a little child, and the judge goes,
Speaker 1: looks like an angel. Benson is at work flipping through
Speaker 1: files when Pam rushes in and says something is wrong.
Speaker 1: She says, I don't know. Cabot called and said, I'm
Speaker 1: being pushed from today and the trial is behind and
Speaker 1: I just can't do this anymore. Is it a trick
Speaker 1: by Tyler? What is happening? And Benson goes to court
Speaker 1: to meet up with Cabin and Cabbot goes, yeah, I
Speaker 1: know Cohler isn't here, and he's a stickler for punctuality,
Speaker 1: and nobody has seen him since Friday. Nobody's talked to him,
Speaker 1: not his clerk, nobody. Finn is on the case and
Speaker 1: he calls live and says that there's no log of
Speaker 1: him at Sing Sing to like visit Roy, but Stabler
Speaker 1: went there, which is strange because Tyler is not at
Speaker 1: Sing Sing, So what the fuck is like, you know,
Speaker 1: Stabler doing with this? So right now? And then Tyler
Speaker 1: right now is actually in holding waiting for the trial.
Speaker 1: So Cabot and Benson go to meet him and his
Speaker 1: lawyer and find out like, if the judge visited him,
Speaker 1: what's going on? Was he at Rikers? So Tyler does
Speaker 1: say that the judge visited him at Riker's Sunday morning,
Speaker 1: and Horowitz is like, this is the first time hearing
Speaker 1: of this. I had no idea this was happening, and
Speaker 1: so they did think that Tyler did something to the
Speaker 1: judge and horro Wist is like, no, no, they just
Speaker 1: talked about the case. If anybody did anything wrong, it's
Speaker 1: Kohler like the judge shouldn't have gone to chat with
Speaker 1: Tyler about the case, and Tyler says, no, the judge
Speaker 1: just wanted to hear my life story. Benson asks why,
Speaker 1: and Horowitz was like, well maybe it was, like you know,
Speaker 1: started as a hunger strike chat, Like I know they
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about the hunger strike. But Tyler's acting
Speaker 1: coy and annoying and like, I don't really, it's very
Speaker 1: confusing what is going on. So the judge did say
Speaker 1: that he refused to leave until he ate something, and
Speaker 1: Benson and Cabot are as confused as we are as viewers.
Speaker 1: It makes no sense. Why would this judge jeopardize the case,
Speaker 1: not show and then not show up. Benson's like, well,
Speaker 1: maybe he's losing it, and Kebbit goes, well, that makes sense.
Speaker 1: He's like taking calls in court. He's so distracted, and
Speaker 1: Benson is scared that maybe he harmed himself or something.
Speaker 1: So Finn goes to check at his residence. Finn and
Speaker 1: Munch breaks into the judge's home and he's covered in
Speaker 1: blood and they're like, is the attacker still here? And
Speaker 1: he goes, oh, I wasn't attacked, and they're like, okay,
Speaker 1: what happened to you? Are you okay? He goes, no,
Speaker 1: you need to get in here. And there's a man
Speaker 1: tied to a chair and he's bloody as fuck, but
Speaker 1: with a pulse. And then Munch asks who is he
Speaker 1: and he goes the Scourge of the Earth. Finn checks
Speaker 1: his idea and says his name is Gregory Brunson, so
Speaker 1: the same last name as Tyler who's on trial. So
Speaker 1: now we cut to Tyler who's like, oh, that's my father,
Speaker 1: but I haven't spoken to him since I left home
Speaker 1: at sixteen, and Benson goes, what did you tell the
Speaker 1: judge about him? And he really doesn't want to talk
Speaker 1: about it. He's stammering, but Benson pushes him and asks
Speaker 1: if his father sexually abused him and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what the judge kept asking me, And Ben like
Speaker 1: what did you tell him? And Tyler's like, well, he
Speaker 1: had my entire childhood. He doesn't know why Cohler got
Speaker 1: so emotional since he was the one that it was abused,
Speaker 1: not this judge. So now we cut to Cohler. Guess
Speaker 1: what the DNA at the pool is? Not Cohler sign
Speaker 1: Roy is like truly a little like a villain obviously,
Speaker 1: and it's someone but like, the DNA matched a different
Speaker 1: one of his victims and that body was found before
Speaker 1: and like the person is buried, but this was where
Speaker 1: the body was first stored, and so yeah, this sucks.
Speaker 1: And then Munch goes, wow, Roy played Elliott like a
Speaker 1: game boy. But Munch is in a bad mood. He
Speaker 1: didn't get to go on his fuckfest trip. So Werner
Speaker 1: told the judge this information on Saturday. So on Saturday,
Speaker 1: the judge finds out that the DNA is from a
Speaker 1: different victim that was buried somewhere else. And then Finn
Speaker 1: asks why she didn't tell them, and she says, besides
Speaker 1: a tour bus massacre that kept her busy, she also
Speaker 1: felt uncomfortable with what the judge was at asking her
Speaker 1: to do. The judge asked of Tyler Brunson's DNA was
Speaker 1: taken at the time of arrest, and then gave a
Speaker 1: lock of hair for her to test. So now we
Speaker 1: have Stabler with the bag of this hair and asked
Speaker 1: the judge why he asked Warner to run the DNA
Speaker 1: test on Tyler's hair, And he's skirting the issue and
Speaker 1: trying to light to Benson and Stabler and then drops
Speaker 1: a bomb and goes, that hair is from Marshall's baby book.
Speaker 1: Tyler is Marshall. Marshall is Tyler in it together? How why? Uh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy. It's one of the craziest twists of
Speaker 2: all time. Like he Cabot was looking for a different judge.
Speaker 2: This guy just happened to walk up and this is
Speaker 2: the judge that's presiding over his own child's case.
Speaker 1: Who's it's just too crazy and Tyler's the judge's son
Speaker 1: and asks to recuse himself obviously, like even though he's
Speaker 1: broken every rule and nothing's mattered, but like now yourself,
Speaker 1: like aren't you going to jail for assault? Like Stahla goes,
Speaker 1: but wow, and Roy never let any of his victims live,
Speaker 1: And the judge says this has nothing to do with Roy.
Speaker 1: He but he got decades of pleasure out of tormenting
Speaker 1: this judge. But Gregory Brunson is actually the one who
Speaker 1: took his son from the park, and so they could
Speaker 1: have been looking for Tyler this whole time if they
Speaker 1: hadn't like assumed it was Roy. Like I wonder how
Speaker 1: the evidence and investigation happened, and like that they focused
Speaker 1: so much on the wrong thing. It probably just matched them.
Speaker 2: The kids the same age as this guy who took
Speaker 2: all these kids and from the.
Speaker 1: Said he did it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it sucks that,
Speaker 1: like this judge's son was just being tormented by this
Speaker 1: man in the same city, you know, like they stayed
Speaker 1: in New York or no, Rhode Island, whatever. Okay, but
Speaker 1: it's like.
Speaker 2: Also, if everybody's looking for one looking at one massive crime,
Speaker 2: it is going to be other people take advantage of that.
Speaker 2: It's like what's happening in La right now with these
Speaker 2: guys just taking people off the street. You think that's
Speaker 2: not a good opportunity for somebody to just go buy
Speaker 2: a police badge at an army surplus store and grabs.
Speaker 1: Anyone they want. It could happen easily. You know, Tyler
Speaker 1: is not the man he would have been if him
Speaker 1: and Shanna raised him, and he knows they preach personal responsibility,
Speaker 1: but it's not Tyler's fault. He was tortured, and that
Speaker 1: like the judge feels bad because he should have kept
Speaker 1: looking for him and set him free and saved him.
Speaker 1: And Benson says, well, how could you have known? And
Speaker 1: he goes, well, he was so smart. He used to
Speaker 1: count the change in my pocket and he was only
Speaker 1: three years old. And that's like the coins he plays with.
Speaker 1: So he keeps the exact amount of coins the day
Speaker 1: his son went missing, and he keeps that many coins
Speaker 1: in his pocket at all times. Stabler asks when did
Speaker 1: he start to suspect that Tyler was his son? And
Speaker 1: he says at the bail, hearing a quote, a tyrant
Speaker 1: will always find a pretext for his tyranny, and it's
Speaker 1: from an Aesop fable. He used to read to him
Speaker 1: The Wolf and a Lamb, and he remembered. And but
Speaker 1: for three to remember that is like so wild, and
Speaker 1: it's like what you said. The judge can't even believe it,
Speaker 1: Like Habit wanted a different judge, but he walked by,
Speaker 1: And if he did walk by, he wouldn't have taken this.
Speaker 1: And you know, if Marshall didn't remember this one fable,
Speaker 1: like the trial would have happened normally, and that's that
Speaker 1: fate brought us back together. The judge said, well almost,
Speaker 1: and then Staber leans in and is like, well, maybe
Speaker 1: you can get temporary insanity or during nullification, and he goes, no,
Speaker 1: there won't be a trial. I went against everything I've
Speaker 1: ever stood for. I've admitted my guilt, and we'll take
Speaker 1: whatever punishment the judge sees fit, which hopefully he'll get
Speaker 1: a a deal. Yeah, that's his friends. Benson's like, no,
Speaker 1: you have dedicated your life to the law, like let
Speaker 1: it work for you. And here comes another quote, chase
Speaker 1: after the truth, like hell, you'll free yourself even though
Speaker 1: you never touch its coattails. Okay, well he found the
Speaker 1: truth and he feels free. He just says one request.
Speaker 1: So now we cut to Benson and Stabler and they're
Speaker 1: holding a t like Tyler in an orange jumpsuit, and
Speaker 1: he's pissed off, like what the fuck? What do you
Speaker 1: want from me? And we have the judge behind bars
Speaker 1: and Tyler is so confused by this. So they say
Speaker 1: hello to each other and then like Tyler's pissed because
Speaker 1: he goes, well, you went crazy, and now there's a mistrial.
Speaker 1: And I have to do this whole fucking trial all
Speaker 1: over again. And the judge goes, I'm sorry that what
Speaker 1: that man turns you into, it's not who you are,
Speaker 1: and Tyler goes me, what about you? Like? Why why
Speaker 1: did you attack my father? And the music gets stringy
Speaker 1: and then he goes the Tyranny quote and Tyler is
Speaker 1: a flash of recognition and like shock, and he goes,
Speaker 1: it's something I looked up recently from a fable I
Speaker 1: remembered as a kid my dad read to me. But like,
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like my dad at all. I can't
Speaker 1: remember him doing anything nice for me ever, And the
Speaker 1: judge goes, think, try to remember the voice, and still nothing,
Speaker 1: But then tears start welling up in the judge's eyes,
Speaker 1: and then Tyler keeps thinking and it finally hits him
Speaker 1: and they both look at each other, crying, and Tyler's
Speaker 1: in shock. He goes, it's not possible, and he's stammering,
Speaker 1: and he goes, it was you, and then the judge
Speaker 1: cries more, cradles Tyler's face. Taylor Tyler now cry. Tyler's crying.
Speaker 1: He leans his head into his hand. They're both crying
Speaker 1: now I've said crying like five hundred times. I can't
Speaker 1: say it again. They are tearing up, uh whatever, there's
Speaker 1: bars in between them, and he's just like holding his
Speaker 1: son's face as they cry, and we wish them both
Speaker 1: the best on their journeys, honestly, Like he is a
Speaker 1: bad guy, and I think they're both going to jail,
Speaker 1: but maybe they'll be in the same unit and they
Speaker 1: can work on the relationship. But that is dick Well
Speaker 1: baby crazy episode. It's crazy. It's such a crazy episode. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like and then it's followed up by Zebras.
Speaker 2: I feel like ten might be one of the most
Speaker 2: unhinged seasons, but they're really just like swinging for it,
Speaker 2: like doing crazy episodes. Okay, let's get in to the cases.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just everything.
Speaker 2: There's a bunch of stuff like on the wiki and
Speaker 2: online about cases. This might be based off of that
Speaker 2: I really don't agree with. It's just kind of about
Speaker 2: like child killers, like that Dotson could be based on. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's like a ton of child killers that I guess
Speaker 2: Dotson could be based on, but he's not the.
Speaker 1: Focus of the episode. So two parts.
Speaker 2: The first part of this episode is obviously this like catfishing,
Speaker 2: rape setup, which again I don't I don't have a
Speaker 2: name for it. Everywhere I looked, I could not find
Speaker 2: one that happened before this episode took place. But wildly
Speaker 2: I found one that happened six months after this episode aired,
Speaker 2: and it's extremely similar. Like in September of two thousand
Speaker 2: and eight, a woman named Sarah Kostovni of Casper, Wyoming,
Speaker 2: she met a marine named Jebediah James Stipe.
Speaker 1: Ye oh yeah, don't don't go on a date with
Speaker 1: a Jebediah. They grew up in a religious bad home.
Speaker 1: Like that's not a well kept person. If you know
Speaker 1: a normal Jebediah, let us know, I think our dms
Speaker 1: will be empty. Well, jebedi is twenty seven, he's from Carbon, Wyoming.
Speaker 1: He's like on leave from the Marines. She meets him,
Speaker 1: they spend a few days together. This is in September.
Speaker 1: Then she goes and visits him in California. He's stationed
Speaker 1: at twenty nine Palms, which is kind of near Palm Springs,
Speaker 1: and she goes to visit him for a few days
Speaker 1: over New Years.
Speaker 2: Spent a few days there. She was like, he was
Speaker 2: different in California. I knew I was probably never going
Speaker 2: to see him ever again. Okay, So I just want
Speaker 2: to recap that she spent a total of seven days
Speaker 2: with this man, with maybe some texting in between.
Speaker 1: It was two thousand and eight.
Speaker 2: I don't even know what kind of phones they had,
Speaker 2: but some texting in between. In July two thousand and nine,
Speaker 2: she meets a man and they become engaged, and she
Speaker 2: texts everybody in her address book on her phone, I
Speaker 2: guess and says I'm getting engaged. Stipe calls her Jebediah
Speaker 2: and asks for her address he can send her an
Speaker 2: engagement gift, and unfortunately, the stemless wine glasses never arrived
Speaker 2: because this guy was an absolute psychopath. On December fifth,
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, he posts on Craigslist.
Speaker 1: But this is so of the time, Like thank god
Speaker 1: we have websites now, Like I would never just like
Speaker 1: everyone in my phone book, I have people saved as
Speaker 1: like Jim the bar, Like what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: People pay saved us don't pick up? Yeah, Like you're
Speaker 1: just why blanking. I'm not blaming the victim here. It's
Speaker 1: just like the change of times, Like I just I
Speaker 1: can't imagine just being like I'm gonna let everyone because
Speaker 1: we would post on social media.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And she was just like, I'm engaged, and
Speaker 2: so he asked her for her address. Then in two
Speaker 2: thousand and nine, December two thousand and nine, he so again.
Speaker 2: This episode came out in May of two thousand and nine,
Speaker 2: and this is like happening exactly six months later in
Speaker 2: December of death.
Speaker 1: I don't like when this happens, though. I don't like
Speaker 1: when things are like immediately right after an episode, I'm like,
Speaker 1: what is going on.
Speaker 2: Because You're like, did they get it from that or
Speaker 2: is it parallel? Think like, is it just like a
Speaker 2: thing that a coincidence. It's just too I am sure
Speaker 2: this happened before two thousand and nine. I am sure,
Speaker 2: but this is the only case I can find.
Speaker 1: I'm literally looking up everything.
Speaker 2: I'm looking up rape fantasy website, like posting as the
Speaker 2: other person, like, I mean, I was googling everything, and
Speaker 2: this is the only case that pops up. It's also
Speaker 2: possible that this happened. I mean, this is kind of
Speaker 2: the golden age of posting and websites and personals and
Speaker 2: stuff like that that wasn't like as big before. I'm
Speaker 2: sure it has happened before and that that's where these
Speaker 2: writers got the idea, but I cannot find it so
Speaker 2: but this one is very close. He put her photo
Speaker 2: with the listing, and in the listing he posed as
Speaker 2: Sarah and said I'm looking for quote a real aggressive
Speaker 2: man with no concern for women.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a marine. He was stationed at twenty
Speaker 2: nine Palms and somehow the girl Sarah spotted the ad
Speaker 2: after it was up for two days and called the
Speaker 2: cops and it was removed, but not before one hundred
Speaker 2: and sixty people responded to the ad. One hundred and
Speaker 2: sixty people were like, I have no concern for women.
Speaker 2: I'll do it in two days on Craigslist. Among them
Speaker 2: was a twenty six year old named ty Oliver McDowell.
Speaker 2: He messaged the poster and exchanged ims with them.
Speaker 1: The person he.
Speaker 2: Thought was Sarah, and quote unquote, Sarah told him all
Speaker 2: her fantasies, including quote humiliation, physical abuse, sexual abuse, and
Speaker 2: then Stipe gave McDowell Sarah's address and on December eleventh,
Speaker 2: McDowell broke into her home, tied her up, bound and
Speaker 2: gagged her, held a knife on her, and raped her.
Speaker 2: And he later told detectives. He thought he was helping
Speaker 2: her live out this rape fantasy she had. He was arrested.
Speaker 1: It had to have been some sort of safe word,
Speaker 1: Like what do you mean you just bring out a
Speaker 1: knife and tie a woman to a chair?
Speaker 2: I mean, a safe word is such a thing that
Speaker 2: a woman would have to suggest, And there was no
Speaker 2: woman involved in this at all, you know, like these
Speaker 2: men are yeah, no, stupid, you know, And yeah, he
Speaker 2: was arrested. He was charged with first degree sexual assault,
Speaker 2: aggravated kidnapping, and aggravated burglary. And then Stipe was arrested
Speaker 2: and charged with They obviously did be boot bops and
Speaker 2: figured out that Stipe was the one that was messaging
Speaker 2: with this guy and charge he was charged with conspiracy
Speaker 2: to commit first degree sexual assaults. In twenty ten, after
Speaker 2: pleading guilty to sexual assault, aggravated kidnapping, and aggravated burglary,
Speaker 2: Stipe was sentenced to sixty years. Oh good years, which
Speaker 2: is really really good considering what you hear about some
Speaker 2: of these crimes. I mean, by then, it's the late,
Speaker 2: it's the it's the we're at the twenty tens now,
Speaker 2: so hopefully we're giving out the correct sentences and not
Speaker 2: like five years for a full rape, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, Like that that is actually going to be
Speaker 2: involved in the next crap I'm going to talk about.
Speaker 2: But he is serving that out in Wyoming Medium Correctional Institution. McDowell,
Speaker 2: the one who committed the act, admitted also to three
Speaker 2: counts of first degree sexual assault, although I I guess
Speaker 2: I sort of think his should be down to second
Speaker 2: degree or something since he didn't he should still go
Speaker 2: to jail. But it's like he didn't premeditate it because
Speaker 2: he thought she was in on it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but I think not having a safe for
Speaker 1: the night, like there's all these things that like just
Speaker 1: go into Yeah, stupid. It's just it is like it
Speaker 1: is wild to me. He also gets sixty years. He
Speaker 1: gets the same amount of time as the guy who
Speaker 1: perpetrated the whole thing. I wonder why he pled, if
Speaker 1: he didn't even get a deal, why he would plead
Speaker 1: guilty or maybe he felt really bad. Yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. You're right, it seems like you would
Speaker 1: try to say no, but maybe there was he thought
Speaker 1: there was. It was futile.
Speaker 2: McDowell admitted to the three counts of first degree sexual assault,
Speaker 2: one count of aggravated kidnapping, one count of aggrivatd burglary.
Speaker 2: He also got sixty sent serving that at Wyoming State Penitentiary,
Speaker 2: and both will not be up for parole until April
Speaker 2: thirtieth of twenty fifty, at which point I think.
Speaker 1: This like never happens on our podcast, where I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: cool sentence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they just got a lot of time. They'll be
Speaker 2: in their seventies, I think when they get out. I think, yeah,
Speaker 2: because it's forty years and they were like in their
Speaker 2: late twenties when it happened. Yeah, Craigslist faced no penalties
Speaker 2: as federal law protects Internet sites from liability for their
Speaker 2: user's actions, which is according to m Ryan Callo, who
Speaker 2: is a residential fellow at Stanford Law School's Center for
Speaker 2: Internet and Society. He told the La Times quote the
Speaker 2: idea was that these website platforms were truly communities assembled
Speaker 2: of random users with no editorial control over what users
Speaker 2: were doing. Craigslist is like a hotel with millions of rooms,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't have the ability to figure out what's
Speaker 2: happening in those rooms. And we've seen this a bunch
Speaker 2: of times like turn on the sun, Like, you know,
Speaker 2: things are happening in second life or whatever, different websites
Speaker 2: where people are committing crimes, and the websites like, we
Speaker 2: don't know what they're doing, We're just taking the money.
Speaker 2: So that's a wild one that happened six months later.
Speaker 2: I cannot find anything about something that happened before, but
Speaker 2: I know it's happened because also the show has talked
Speaker 2: about this kind of scenario multiple multiple times, but this
Speaker 2: one was close enough that I thought it would be
Speaker 2: interesting to talk about. The episode is truly based on
Speaker 2: the kidnapping of Stephen Stainer. Stephen Stainer was born in
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty five in Merced, California, which is a town
Speaker 2: between Fresno and Modesto. He was the third of five kids.
Speaker 2: His older brother was named Carrie, and then he had
Speaker 2: three sisters. Keep that in your keep that in your
Speaker 2: little memory bank for later, Okay. In December of nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy two, when Stephen was seven, he was walking home
Speaker 2: from school when he was approached by a man named
Speaker 2: Irvin Edward Murphy, who asked if hey, would your mom
Speaker 2: like to donate any items to church? Were gathering items
Speaker 2: for the church, and Stephen was like, yeah, but she would.
Speaker 2: But Murphy was just like a simpleton accomplice who had
Speaker 2: been enlisted for help from his coworker at Yosemite by
Speaker 2: a pedophile named Kenneth Parnell who helped him kidnap this boy.
Speaker 2: Murphy brought Stephen over to a car where forty year
Speaker 2: old Parnell, who was a drifter from Texas, was waiting
Speaker 2: for him. They're like, we're gonna give you a ride home.
Speaker 2: This is Reverend Parnell, he's a church leader, not trying.
Speaker 2: Is it a random kid or this guy like wanted
Speaker 2: this kid. I think it's a crime of opportunity because
Speaker 2: Murphy had tried to help him kidnap other kids and
Speaker 2: it had not worked out. So I think they were
Speaker 2: just probably cruising around seeing who's walking home from school,
Speaker 2: who's alone, who can.
Speaker 1: We get and this helper just like an idiot drifter
Speaker 1: who is down to do it, like didn't care.
Speaker 2: He literally has nothing to do with this stuff. Like
Speaker 2: after he gets the boy in the car, he's kind
Speaker 2: of like he's described as like a simpleton and like
Speaker 2: kind of low iq and you.
Speaker 1: Think he believe the church story. Did he know what
Speaker 1: was for the crime, like did.
Speaker 2: He the What I read was that Parnell told him
Speaker 2: he needed to help him get a boy for religious reasons,
Speaker 2: Like he told him.
Speaker 1: It's oh, it's like for religious reasons.
Speaker 2: I want to help turn this boy more Christian or
Speaker 2: so I have no idea, but like religious, you know,
Speaker 2: always under the blanket of religiosity. So he told this boy,
Speaker 2: we're going to give you a ride home. They're telling that,
Speaker 2: they're telling Stephen, Oh, this guy's Reverend Parnell, So he
Speaker 2: thinks he's a church leader.
Speaker 1: So for a couple of days, he keeps calling.
Speaker 2: He keeps going, oh, I'll just call your parents and
Speaker 2: see if you can stay another night, and going, oh,
Speaker 2: you can stay another night.
Speaker 1: So he's just staying and then the boy's like begging
Speaker 1: to go home.
Speaker 2: And then Parnell tells Stephen, oh, actually, your parents abandon
Speaker 2: you because they can't afford this many kids and they
Speaker 2: don't want you anymore. So I went to court and
Speaker 2: I got legal custody of you. So your mind, child now,
Speaker 2: and you're gonna call me dad. And he renamed him
Speaker 2: Dennis Gregory Parnell, which is the same middle name, but
Speaker 2: he changed his first and last name, and he spent
Speaker 2: the next seven years with this kid, moving the boy
Speaker 2: from to various remote cabins trailers in California, enrolling him
Speaker 2: in various schools under the name Dennis Parnell, and the
Speaker 2: whole time obviously psychologically and sexually abusing him.
Speaker 1: It's terrible. It's terrible.
Speaker 2: So from seven to fourteen, this kid, Stephen is with
Speaker 2: this kid, and as an adult, later Stephen goes, I
Speaker 2: probably could have fled because he gave me a lot
Speaker 2: of freedom. He let me drink, he let me smoke,
Speaker 2: he let me drive his car like around his property
Speaker 2: or whatever.
Speaker 1: And he's like, I could have fled. I just didn't
Speaker 1: know where to go.
Speaker 2: And I believed that adults don't lie, so I believe
Speaker 2: my parents had given me up, and like, where am
Speaker 2: I going to go?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: So as an I mean, it's like we hear this
Speaker 2: with tons of people, the people the girl who was
Speaker 2: taken and told that there was something called the Company
Speaker 2: that was going to kill her whole family if she
Speaker 2: tried to leave her. Colleen Stan like, your family's not
Speaker 2: looking you know people that they say, your family's not
Speaker 2: looking for you. So it's like, where would I even
Speaker 2: go so for a while. Parnell also had a girlfriend
Speaker 2: named Barbara Mattius or Matthias, who Steven said also sexually
Speaker 2: assaulted him for a period of time, and she later
Speaker 2: said she had no idea that quote unquote Dennis was kidnapped,
Speaker 2: like she just assumed it was her boyfriend's son. So,
Speaker 2: as we see so often depicted on SVU, as Stephen
Speaker 2: got older into his teens, Parnell doesn't want him as much,
Speaker 2: so he's like, you need to help me recruit a
Speaker 2: younger boy. So he used Steven as a lure to
Speaker 2: help get a couple of other boys. But it didn't
Speaker 2: work out, Like a lot of the attempts didn't work,
Speaker 2: and Parnell was like, all, this kid's a bad accomplice.
Speaker 2: But Stephen later revealed no, I was like fucking it
Speaker 2: up on purpose. I didn't want these kids to get kidnapped, right,
Speaker 2: So on Mebruary Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: On February fourteenth, nineteen eighty, Parnell asks one of Steven's friends,
Speaker 2: who's a teenager named Randall Porman, to help him kidnap
Speaker 2: a five year old named Timothy White. And you see
Speaker 2: the little boy in a little bit of this documentary
Speaker 2: that I'm going to talk about later. And he's like blonde,
Speaker 2: fluffy hair, like a little angel, like Timothy White. Like
Speaker 2: he sounds like what he looks like, what somebody named
Speaker 2: Timothy White would be named like the whitest little white boy,
Speaker 2: blonde poster child for the milk carton.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: He kidnaps him, and Steven sees how upset Timothy is,
Speaker 2: and he's like, I'm going to free this kid and
Speaker 2: I'm going to reunite him with his family. So two
Speaker 2: weeks after, he's kidnapped on March first of nineteen.
Speaker 1: Eighty, but he wasn't able to put it in his
Speaker 1: head that might have happened to him. Not yet, no,
Speaker 1: kay yeh.
Speaker 2: So two weeks later, March first, nineteen eighty, Parnell's at work, Stephen,
Speaker 2: who is fourteen, takes little Timothy and carries him on
Speaker 2: his back and they hitch hike forty miles to the
Speaker 2: little boy's hometown of Yukaya or Ukaya, California, but they
Speaker 2: can't find his house. So they go to a police
Speaker 2: station and blah blah blah, blah blah blah. Everyone's been
Speaker 2: looking for Timothy. He's been going for two weeks. The
Speaker 2: next morning, police pick up Parnell for kidnapping both boys.
Speaker 2: It's discovered that Parnell has a sodomy conviction from nineteen
Speaker 2: fifty one, which he was in jail for like four
Speaker 2: minutes for Stephen and Timothy are immediately reunited with their families.
Speaker 1: And he's like a hero, this kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the following year, Parnell gets tried and convicted
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty one of kidnapping the boys in two
Speaker 2: separate trials. Now, this is so fucked. He gets sentenced
Speaker 2: to seven years for kidnapping Timothy White. Okay, then he
Speaker 2: gets an additional seven years for kidnapping Steven, but because
Speaker 2: of some weird statute or.
Speaker 1: The way the law's written.
Speaker 2: I literally I watched the documentary like I could not
Speaker 2: figure out why this is happening. And it being his
Speaker 2: second defense, he only had to serve twenty months of that.
Speaker 2: So he gets like nine years total for this and
Speaker 2: don't worry, like, because the justice system rocks so hard
Speaker 2: in our country, he gets paroled after serving five years
Speaker 2: for good behavior. Like I just wrote in my notes,
Speaker 2: like what the fuck? Like I was going crazy. Stephen
Speaker 2: testified at the trial that he was regularly sexually abused,
Speaker 2: but he was not charged with any sexual assaults on
Speaker 2: Stephen or any of the other boys that he may
Speaker 2: have kidnapped because they occurred outside the jurisdiction of the
Speaker 2: Mercenne County prosecutor and were also outside the statute of limitations,
Speaker 2: which I think I read somewhere there was like three years.
Speaker 2: Mendocino County prosecutors also decided not to prosecute Parnell for
Speaker 2: the sexual assaults that took place there.
Speaker 1: I don't know why.
Speaker 2: The kids said on trial they found nude photos of
Speaker 2: Stephen M. Parnell's home when he was a child. I
Speaker 2: mean he was a child the whole time he was
Speaker 2: found at fourteen, but when he was younger as well,
Speaker 2: and his family did not want him to talk about
Speaker 2: the details of the molestation, like his that we get
Speaker 2: into it, like his father, like you know, they did
Speaker 2: not want him to talk about this. They're like, don't
Speaker 2: that's not your business, Like don't bring that stuff up
Speaker 2: in interviews or whatever. Some of the accomplices that worked
Speaker 2: with him, like the guy that first helped him take
Speaker 2: Stephen and this teen kid that helped him take Timothy.
Speaker 2: They got lesser charges and lower sentences, but his girlfriend,
Speaker 2: Barbara was never charged with anything and she cooperated with
Speaker 2: the police, even though according to Stephen, she was a
Speaker 2: perpetrator as well.
Speaker 1: So poor Stephen.
Speaker 2: Obviously, when he got home, his life was tough, like
Speaker 2: he had been allowed to smoke, to drink, to do
Speaker 2: whatever he wanted, and now his family expects their seven
Speaker 2: year old to come back to them. But he's like
Speaker 2: a fourteen year old and he's like kind of acting
Speaker 2: like a grown man because he's been treated like that.
Speaker 2: To some extent, his relationship with his father is very strained.
Speaker 2: He got some initial counseling and after that no additional
Speaker 2: treatment because his dad didn't believe in it, didn't say
Speaker 2: he didn't need it, didn't believe in therapy or psychologists.
Speaker 2: Very cool in this documentary. Even the mom who is
Speaker 2: freely talking in this documentary is like.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I believe he had some good times
Speaker 1: with that guy. I think he had some good times.
Speaker 1: I mean also bad times.
Speaker 2: We don't want hm to remember the bad times, but
Speaker 2: there were you know, he had some good It's like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck.
Speaker 1: They're just like not comprehending trauma.
Speaker 2: In any way these people, and you know, this poor
Speaker 2: fucking kid, he's adorable. He's such a little heart throb.
Speaker 2: He comes back fourteen, he's so cute. He's going on
Speaker 2: all these talk shows, like Bravely talking about this ordeal.
Speaker 1: He went on.
Speaker 2: Everybody's asking him all these questions. He did get married
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty five to a seventeen year old named
Speaker 2: Jody Edmondson. He sold his story for thirty thousand dollars,
Speaker 2: which eventually became the NBC mini series I Know my
Speaker 2: first name is Steven, which forty million people watched, which
Speaker 2: at the time, it's like we all had appointment. Tell
Speaker 2: everybody was watching stuff like this, like made for TV movies, miniseries,
Speaker 2: like we all watch the same stuff. So that's like
Speaker 2: Super Bowl numbers, like the number of people that watch
Speaker 2: this kid's story. So the story was quite huge. He
Speaker 2: was being interviewed everywhere. It got nominated for an Emmy.
Speaker 2: Stephen told this press outlet, the Santa Rosa Press Democrat, quote,
Speaker 2: my hope with the movie is that some kid sees
Speaker 2: it and gets up the nerve to tell someone and
Speaker 2: try to come home. And he didn't want his life
Speaker 2: depict it as a horror story. He says so ironically.
Speaker 2: The night before the Emmys in September of nineteen eighty nine,
Speaker 2: sadly Stephen, riding on his motorcycle coming home from a
Speaker 2: job as a pizza delivery driver to his wife and
Speaker 2: his two small kids, who were like three and two
Speaker 2: at the time, was killed in a hit and run accident.
Speaker 2: He was not wearing a helmet. He suffered head trauma,
Speaker 2: and at the age of twenty four, he passed. So
Speaker 2: super super horrible and sad, and Kenneth Parnell out of
Speaker 2: jail after five years. He got less time in jail
Speaker 2: than that kid got away from his family sexually abused constantly.
Speaker 2: I have in the in the documentary, people are screaming
Speaker 2: at the lawyers, going why is the sentence?
Speaker 1: Why? Why? Why is the sentence so little?
Speaker 2: And no one's answering, and no one answers it in
Speaker 2: the door like it's some kind of statutes or whatever
Speaker 2: like in the state that it makes no sense to me.
Speaker 2: But he just gets almost no time for seven years
Speaker 2: of forcible kidnapping. And I don't know why they didn't
Speaker 2: go after any sexual abuse charges. I thought maybe the
Speaker 2: kid wouldn't testify and then you kind of maybe can't
Speaker 2: do you can't have a without being able to confront
Speaker 2: your accuser or whatever. But they the kid said in trial,
Speaker 2: they asked him, were you sexual assaulted? And he like
Speaker 2: quietly like confirmed it, like through like being very upset
Speaker 2: and like embarrassed. He confirmed that he was sexually assaulted
Speaker 2: at trial under oath. So I don't fucking know. But
Speaker 2: the good news is Parnell was obviously back on his
Speaker 2: bullshit very quickly.
Speaker 1: Who knows.
Speaker 2: I mean, if he went to jail in eighty one,
Speaker 2: he served five years. From eighty six to two thousand
Speaker 2: and two, we hear nothing from him. That's a pretty
Speaker 2: fucking long time, almost, Like what is that that sixteen
Speaker 2: years where he's definitely out there fucking molesting kids, for sure,
Speaker 2: But in two thousand and two he's back on his bullshit.
Speaker 2: He tries to buy a child for five hundred dollars.
Speaker 1: He's seventy one.
Speaker 2: He's suffering from much like the killer in the episode Dotson,
Speaker 2: he's suffering from diabetes and emphysema. He'd had a stroke.
Speaker 2: He needed around the clock care. He solicited his caregiver's
Speaker 2: sister to help procure a child with quote a clean rectum,
Speaker 2: so obviously the intention for sexual abuse was clear. He
Speaker 2: had the cash ready to buy the birth certificate and
Speaker 2: pay for the child on him. So he was arrested
Speaker 2: and he was eventually convicted of kidnap, of attempting to
Speaker 2: purchase a child, and attempted child molestation. And even though
Speaker 2: no actual victim existed, the prosecution argued that he had
Speaker 2: criminal intentions.
Speaker 1: They one.
Speaker 2: He got twenty five to life under California's three strikes law.
Speaker 2: I don't know why his sodomy charge didn't count or
Speaker 2: whatever towards the three strikes, but he did barely got
Speaker 2: any time for what he did to Steven. But he
Speaker 2: eventually did die in prison at seventy six from natural causes,
Speaker 2: you know, five years later. So he spent a total
Speaker 2: of ten years in jail for probably ruining the lives
Speaker 2: of dozens of children. But we only know about a
Speaker 2: few victims. And if you thought this couldn't get more
Speaker 2: fucked up and sad, remember that older brother, Carrie that
Speaker 2: I mentioned at the beginning, the oldest of the five kids.
Speaker 2: He's a fucking serial killer. He became in the nineties.
Speaker 2: The Yosemite Park killer. He killed four victims in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety nine, two women and two teens. FBI agents tracked
Speaker 2: Carrie Stainer to the Laguna del Soul nudist resort. I
Speaker 2: just wanted to point out that he was apprehended at
Speaker 2: a newdist resort.
Speaker 1: They brought him in. He confessed. Authorities believed that he
Speaker 1: might have many more victims.
Speaker 2: There's like a few victims that they've listed that all
Speaker 2: disappeared at the time that he was killing people in
Speaker 2: the area, and he was sentenced to life. He's currently
Speaker 2: sixty three years old serving life at Pelican Base State Prison.
Speaker 2: But some people wanted to posture that he was jealous
Speaker 2: of all the attention his brother was getting, like because
Speaker 2: when he came back, he was like a celebrity.
Speaker 1: He was like, but he was also bullied, like kids
Speaker 1: were calling him the F word, slur, kids were making
Speaker 1: fun of him for things that happened to him when
Speaker 1: he was kidnapped. But his older brother was like, oh,
Speaker 1: but he's on TV. He's getting all this attention this
Speaker 1: and that.
Speaker 2: But then people also say that Carrie had these fucked
Speaker 2: up tendencies even as like a child.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm also questioning the parents the original parents like
Speaker 1: we're not gonna get therapy. Our kids are k like, oh,
Speaker 1: he probably had good times, Like they're probably twisted fucks too. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm gonna recommend the documentary for our what would
Speaker 2: Sister Peg Do? So I'll get to that. But that
Speaker 2: has a whole section about Carrie. So if people want
Speaker 2: to learn more about Carrie and like his crimes, that
Speaker 2: is in that doc as well.
Speaker 1: But I wanted to keep it.
Speaker 2: More to the crime focused in this episode, so I
Speaker 2: didn't get fully into all of Carrie's crimes.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's pretty leak.
Speaker 2: But the parents, the mom's interviewed all through the documentary
Speaker 2: and she's I would just.
Speaker 1: Say a little bit too Lucy goosey with like the.
Speaker 2: Way she's talking, like yeah, Steven had some good times
Speaker 2: there and like, yeah, my husband just didn't believe in therapy,
Speaker 2: so he didn't go to therapy.
Speaker 1: But you know, like she's just really I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the sisters are interviewed in the doc as well.
Speaker 2: The sisters are interviewed and one of the sisters goes,
Speaker 2: I feel bad.
Speaker 1: I was such a nosy little sister that I kept
Speaker 1: asking Steven about all the things that happened to him,
Speaker 1: that this guy Parnell commit these crimes that he committed
Speaker 1: against him. And he eventually told me, and I wish
Speaker 1: I never asked because they were like, why do you
Speaker 1: wish you didn't ask because now you know? Or because
Speaker 1: he had to tell you?
Speaker 2: And she's like both, I mean, like now I know,
Speaker 2: like the horrific stuff he went through, and but you know,
Speaker 2: it seemed like he was really trying to turn his
Speaker 2: life around. Like there's cute pictures of his kids like
Speaker 2: playing with him and stuff, Steven Stainer, and it's just
Speaker 2: so sad he got to this accident, and you know,
Speaker 2: but he had such a like fucking tough life. Kidnapped
Speaker 2: at seven, returned at twenty four, a moment of minor celebrity.
Speaker 2: Your parents don't let you get any therapy for your trauma,
Speaker 2: married with two kids that are went by twenty four,
Speaker 2: you know, and trying to support them with like little
Speaker 2: jobs and stuff, and seemed like he was trying to
Speaker 2: get is get.
Speaker 1: It all together.
Speaker 2: But I think he had substance abuse issues also, probably
Speaker 2: from his trauma. But being allowed to start drinking when
Speaker 2: you're fourteen, you know, it's fucked but in this episode,
Speaker 2: it's thirty years that he's gone, so.
Speaker 1: It's less in real life, but still not great. It's
Speaker 1: so fucked up. It's like you need contingency play. You
Speaker 1: have to like tell your kid, I would I would
Speaker 1: never give you up. Yeah, I would never sign you away. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But I wonder, like, yeah, I wonder. I mean, not
Speaker 2: that they're always the same writers, but like this is
Speaker 2: a this is a dawn to noon episode, and she
Speaker 2: writes apparently a lot of the dark ones. But I
Speaker 2: wonder where she got the idea for the catfish thing, because,
Speaker 2: like I said, I couldn't find anything from before that.
Speaker 2: But maybe there were like thwarted attempts that they read about.
Speaker 1: You know, they were like.
Speaker 2: People posting stuff like cause it's not like revenge. What
Speaker 2: do you call revenge child's what do you call revenge?
Speaker 1: Sex of use images? Is that what they're called? No?
Speaker 2: Iways, there was some kind of thing, but we looked
Speaker 2: it up, but like it doesn't feel like that because
Speaker 2: you're instigating an actual attack, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's cyber exploitation or non consensual porn.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, cyber exploitations. It's like it's it's like there's
Speaker 2: no name for it.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like a well, yeah, because.
Speaker 2: Catish, she seems a little bit too cute. Catfish she
Speaker 2: is like, oh, by the way, I told you I
Speaker 2: was like a hot twenty year old, but I'm actually
Speaker 2: a sixty year old woman living in Canada. Like you know, catfish,
Speaker 2: she seems a little bit too cute for like setting
Speaker 2: up a post to get someone attacked. So I don't
Speaker 2: know if there's a name for it, but we got
Speaker 2: to find out. But anyway, we have a we have
Speaker 2: an interview coming up, so God cleanse your palette, as
Speaker 2: we try to do from this horrible crime.
Speaker 1: But or image based sexual abuse, often laws use more
Speaker 1: precise language like intimate visual depiction whatever. We just shouldn't
Speaker 1: be calling it porn like fuck. Then it's easier to
Speaker 1: shame the person and be like, well, you shouldn't have
Speaker 1: even taken Why did you do that? Why'd you do that?
Speaker 1: And it's like yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, yeah, get
Speaker 1: us to the guest, Get us to the guest.
Speaker 2: Our guest today is a musician and actor who you
Speaker 2: may recognize from appearances on shows like Rubicon, Blue Bloods,
Speaker 2: and as the Double Booked Soup guy Eric from Sex
Speaker 2: and the City, but we know him best as the
Speaker 2: kidnapping victim turned malicious stalker ex boyfriend Tyler Brunson slash
Speaker 2: Marshall Kohler. Please enjoy our chat with the wonderful John
Speaker 2: Patrick Walker.
Speaker 1: We're very excited to have you a classic s VU.
Speaker 2: Yeah really truly, such an insane episode.
Speaker 4: Totally bonkers.
Speaker 1: I don't know a lot. You get to freak out
Speaker 1: in different rooms.
Speaker 4: I get to chew the scenery, man, I get to cry.
Speaker 4: I get to like run from the courtroom and get
Speaker 4: tackled by police.
Speaker 1: It's like when people ask me, like, if I can
Speaker 1: meet an s V you, what what I do? I say,
Speaker 1: I want to freak out in the courtroom.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's total.
Speaker 1: But you also get a dog bite, which I liked
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 4: Dog bite, there were injuries. I mean I watched it
Speaker 4: this morning. I haven't seen that long. Oh yeah, oh
Speaker 4: my god.
Speaker 2: I just like our listeners aren't going to see you,
Speaker 2: but I do just want to let them know that
Speaker 2: your bowl cut is not happening anymore. That is a
Speaker 2: that was the character choice, I guess. Was that how
Speaker 2: you were wearing your hair at the time.
Speaker 4: No, no, no, that was a character choice. You know,
Speaker 4: I had learned the hard way being a guest actor
Speaker 4: on some shows in my you know, my early in
Speaker 4: my career, that you you got to show up with
Speaker 4: an idea.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: I made the mistake early on of being like, well
Speaker 4: the director will tell me what to do, and like a,
Speaker 4: you know, they don't have time for that bullshit. They don't,
Speaker 4: they don't care. You got to come in with your character.
Speaker 4: And so with this particular gig, I knew. I was like,
Speaker 4: I'm and I put the hair down and I just
Speaker 4: was like, I'm going to make a choice, make a
Speaker 4: bold choice, and go for it. And you know, it
Speaker 4: was fun.
Speaker 1: What did you see for him? Like is he cutting
Speaker 1: his own hair? Is this some trauma? Is he going
Speaker 1: to the same barn?
Speaker 4: You know, it's probably cutting his own hair. He's not
Speaker 4: doing well, he's he's he's he's yeah, but but he.
Speaker 1: Does just a high job like clearance job at the
Speaker 1: Detarmament of Defense and living in Manhattan. It is like
Speaker 1: kind of crazy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I know he was. I mean, he was
Speaker 4: probably making some money, but yeah, he had issues. The
Speaker 4: guy had some serious issues.
Speaker 1: And you get kidnapped, you buy a molester, it's going
Speaker 1: to affect your love life, You're.
Speaker 2: Going to be a stalker. You know, these things all
Speaker 2: lead to each other.
Speaker 1: But what are your thoughts when you watch it? So
Speaker 1: you know, this was like twelve years ago, maybe more.
Speaker 4: Like what did you feel two thousand and nine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was literally almost sixteen years ago. And again,
Speaker 2: we always appreciate people coming on our podcast to talk
Speaker 2: about something they did sixteen years ago, so thank you.
Speaker 4: You know, what I remember interestingly is, you know, I
Speaker 4: had auditioned for SCU a lot, as all like young
Speaker 4: actors in New York at that time had done, and
Speaker 4: was frustrated with the fact that I hadn't booked, you know,
Speaker 4: a gig on the show yet. And when this came along,
Speaker 4: it was the first one that really felt like kind
Speaker 4: of a meaty role, and I really worked hard on
Speaker 4: the audition and I remember I went in and I
Speaker 4: felt great, you know, they seemed to really respond and
Speaker 4: I was like, oh my god, I think this might happen.
Speaker 4: And a couple days later made it was like they
Speaker 4: went another way. So I didn't get the job right,
Speaker 4: So I was like, damn it. I really thought this
Speaker 4: was going to happen. So I don't remember the exact timeline.
Speaker 4: I don't remember if they started shooting immediately, but within
Speaker 4: a short amount of time, maybe it was just a
Speaker 4: couple of days. I got a call and they said, well,
Speaker 4: there had been apparently internal argument about who to cast.
Speaker 4: Some people really want to do some people really wanted
Speaker 4: this other guy. They went with the other guy, and
Speaker 4: after a day of shooting, they realized they'd made a mistake.
Speaker 4: And so I don't know if this guy wasn't giving
Speaker 4: them what they wanted or if he broke his leg.
Speaker 4: I really don't know. But they called me back and
Speaker 4: they were like, would you come and do the job?
Speaker 4: So I got, like, you know, a second chance to.
Speaker 2: Like and like tomorrow right because they were already shooting.
Speaker 4: You had to be like they were already shooting. So
Speaker 4: I'm like, Okay, the hair is getting combed forward. I
Speaker 4: gotta I gotta walk in there with my character. I
Speaker 4: gotta be ready to kick ass. And yeah, so it
Speaker 4: was like it was a really funny and exciting way
Speaker 4: to kind of book the gig.
Speaker 1: You really had all night, huh. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So when you book the when you get like an audition,
Speaker 2: obviously you only get like a scene, maybe two scenes, right,
Speaker 2: So you didn't know like the whole premise of this script.
Speaker 2: When you got the full script, were you like, what
Speaker 2: an actual hell is going on here?
Speaker 1: Like, no, this is so bunkers get like aud twist.
Speaker 1: It's so nuts.
Speaker 4: It's like a Darth Vader moment at the end, like
Speaker 4: oh my god, you're my father. Wow.
Speaker 1: And he likes your hand through the jail bars you.
Speaker 4: Know, yeah, we like embraced through the jail bars. Yeah,
Speaker 4: in my orange jumpsuit. I mean I got to do everything.
Speaker 4: I really got.
Speaker 1: To show everything.
Speaker 2: It was really you had a lot of face to
Speaker 2: face with Stabler kept going you gotta move on, as
Speaker 2: if like there's not some kind of heavy mental illness
Speaker 2: that's happening when someone is stalking and attacking their ex.
Speaker 1: He's like, come on, she's not worth it. Move on.
Speaker 1: It's totally guy talk.
Speaker 2: But like how was working with the with with Maloney,
Speaker 2: with the cast.
Speaker 4: They were totally nice. You know, these people were just
Speaker 4: total pros. They'd already done a bajillion episodes and you know,
Speaker 4: who knew they were going to do a bajillion more.
Speaker 4: I mean you figured they it would probably run forever.
Speaker 4: It did, but they were total pros, totally nice. Mariska
Speaker 4: especially was like very friendly and very sweet.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: The other thing I learned technically when you're a guest
Speaker 4: on the show is that they always shoot your coverage first.
Speaker 4: So you're like the guy who's nervous and in the outsider,
Speaker 4: but they're shooting you first. Why so that it gives
Speaker 4: the stars of the show a chance to like do
Speaker 4: it a few times without having to be on camera
Speaker 4: because they're still like learning their lines. It's like episode
Speaker 4: one million, Okay, what am I doing in this scene?
Speaker 4: You know, not that they weren't professional and like what
Speaker 4: they were doing.
Speaker 1: I'm also wondering if it's because you the guest stars
Speaker 1: usually have the emotional hard ship to do.
Speaker 4: But really, if they were going to do a favor
Speaker 4: of the guests, they would shoot you last. In other words, yeah,
Speaker 4: because then it gives you a chance. You've done it
Speaker 4: now a few times where the camera's not on you,
Speaker 4: but you're like doing the scene, rehearsing, getting comfortable with it,
Speaker 4: and then they turned the camera around. Okay you but
Speaker 4: with guests, no, you're the bottom of the barrel. You
Speaker 4: gotta just you gotta be ready on the first I mean,
Speaker 4: they'll they'll do like a master with everybody, but then
Speaker 4: as far as the close ups, it's always like it's
Speaker 4: on you first. And that was another thing that I
Speaker 4: was prepared for this time, which I'd been not prepared
Speaker 4: for previously. So I kind of came in there like
Speaker 4: girded my loins and was like, all right, I'm going
Speaker 4: to be with all these sort of famous actors and
Speaker 4: iced tea and you know, everybody, and and it's kind
Speaker 4: of intense because you don't you know, you're nobody did that.
Speaker 4: You're just like some some guy. And they were all
Speaker 4: friendly and everything, but it was it was an experience,
Speaker 4: you know, having to bring all that kind of emotion
Speaker 4: and be the crazy guy.
Speaker 1: And it was fun. Yeah, freak, yeah, freak. But the quote,
Speaker 1: he has a quote that's so relevant today that a
Speaker 1: tyrant will always find a pretext for their tyranny. Like, dude,
Speaker 1: such a good quote.
Speaker 4: I got a little some goosebumps this morning when I
Speaker 4: was watching that. I was like, timely, no.
Speaker 1: That because I'm watching one about this guy who just
Speaker 1: did a rampage and is killing quote unquote anchor babies.
Speaker 1: And that was from season ten too.
Speaker 4: It's just like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: It's sad how much it hasn't changed or gotten worse.
Speaker 4: I don't know, right right, right, No, I know it's back.
Speaker 4: We're living in strange times for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now they are all right, well we mentioned it,
Speaker 1: we can move on. We've touched on it.
Speaker 2: We love to touch on fascism just we just yeah,
Speaker 2: touch sean of fascism of the fash. But well, like
Speaker 2: we we love a courtroom meltdown. But I'm struggling to
Speaker 2: think of another person who actually had to sprint out
Speaker 2: of the courtroom and be chased print that happened before, Lisa,
Speaker 2: that you could think of, Like, I can't think of
Speaker 2: something get tackled earlier, right, they get tackled quicker. You
Speaker 2: made it out, You're like in the hallway, Like did
Speaker 2: they they did all go on, Yeah, they did all
Speaker 2: the choreo with you for that, Like how much did
Speaker 2: you get to rehearse.
Speaker 4: That a little? You know? We had these guys dressed
Speaker 4: as cops and they had to wrestle me and they
Speaker 4: were like just really struggle against them and they won't
Speaker 4: hurt even just really you know, and I mean it
Speaker 4: was so much fun. It really was. It was like
Speaker 4: an actor's dream as far as like a guest role
Speaker 4: on SVU, because I ended up honestly, I don't remember
Speaker 4: if it happened before I did this episode or after,
Speaker 4: but I within a year or so on either side.
Speaker 4: I did a you know, I had three lines as
Speaker 4: a lawyer, like a young attorney, and it was just dry,
Speaker 4: you know, it was It wasn't an SVU. It was
Speaker 4: a It was a regular Law and Order episode where
Speaker 4: I just played like an attorney with a couple of
Speaker 4: lines like in an office, and so that would be
Speaker 4: you know, a more typical kind of like just not
Speaker 4: not a lot to sink your teeth into. But but honestly,
Speaker 4: with this, with with this role, it was just.
Speaker 1: Yeah and unusual because like the victim would have more
Speaker 1: of the freaking earth stuff after like you're you were
Speaker 1: the guy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was like the p and a victim in a.
Speaker 1: Sense, yes, which is something that the show does all
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 4: Right right, And we haven't mentioned that. I also got
Speaker 4: to go on hunger Strike.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you looked real rough then, and they.
Speaker 4: Put the circles under the eyes of you know.
Speaker 1: You looked rough. Yeah, that was good. That was good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got you were so dramatic strike like, but
Speaker 2: the hunger strike implies that you are innocent and you
Speaker 2: are not, like you know, like you're like I'm not
Speaker 2: eating until this tyranny fall, and it's like, but you
Speaker 2: did it, I know, I kind of yead No.
Speaker 4: I was just going to say, it's like, in a way,
Speaker 4: by the end of the show, we've forgotten a about
Speaker 4: the victim, the woman, I mean, she kind of it's
Speaker 4: not really about her for the last like, you know,
Speaker 4: a quarter of the show, it's about me and the dad.
Speaker 4: So it's very funny how it just feered away from
Speaker 4: the actual crime. I committed to this kind of emotional
Speaker 4: reunion with even.
Speaker 1: The guy who ended up physically assaulting her also is
Speaker 1: on the standing like I'm the victim here, like.
Speaker 4: I thought it was a rape fantasy whatever.
Speaker 1: But you're also trolling the sites. You're obviously a problem.
Speaker 2: So you like have done a bunch of TV stuff,
Speaker 2: But are you a theater person as well.
Speaker 4: I've had a very you know, strange and varied career.
Speaker 4: I've done a little bit of sort of everything. I'm
Speaker 4: currently working on the world premiere of The New Wrinkle
Speaker 4: in Time, musical which Inger's crossed. I don't want to,
Speaker 4: you know, jinx it, but I think there's a very
Speaker 4: good chance it'll be coming to New York. Okay, don't
Speaker 4: quote me on that, even though I just said it
Speaker 4: on your podcast. Nothing official at all. But we're currently
Speaker 4: at the Arena stage in Washington, d C. And we're
Speaker 4: in previews and the show is very, very exciting, and
Speaker 4: I love the show very much, So you know, we're
Speaker 4: doing that here and then we'll kind of see what
Speaker 4: the next what the next part of the journey is.
Speaker 4: But it's it's very good. It's very good.
Speaker 1: Oh that's awesome.
Speaker 2: Ringle and Time is like very Madeline Langele is the
Speaker 2: author of that. Yes, like that's like from my childhood.
Speaker 2: That's like a childhood. So I think like a lot
Speaker 2: of people that are into nostalgia are going to.
Speaker 4: Want to go. It's a beloved book. And the thing
Speaker 4: is young kids are still reading it and loving it.
Speaker 4: Like that's what's kind of it's a brilliant thing to
Speaker 4: adapt for the stage because you've got to You've got
Speaker 4: a built in fan base of young kids who love
Speaker 4: this book. And for good reason. It's a it's an
Speaker 4: amazing book.
Speaker 1: How are you enjoying? Are not your time in DC?
Speaker 1: But also finish what you're going to say.
Speaker 4: Well, I was just going to say, interestingly, my wife,
Speaker 4: the actor Hope.
Speaker 1: Davis familiar, We're going to talk to you about that.
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, she and this is obviously coincidence, but she
Speaker 4: did the fiftieth anniversary audiobook of A Wrinkling Time Crazy
Speaker 4: that came out, like I want to say, six seven,
Speaker 4: eight years ago, just coincidence. So it was funny because
Speaker 4: when I first got the workshop of this Wrinkling Time
Speaker 4: musical a year ago, we did we came down here
Speaker 4: to do a workshop for a couple of weeks. I
Speaker 4: had not had the chance to listen to her reading
Speaker 4: of the book. But I finally decided this was the
Speaker 4: perfect excuse to, you know, take the six hours or
Speaker 4: whatever it was and listen to my wife reading A
Speaker 4: Wrinkle in Time. So that was just a fun.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: Do you remember when your wife did her episode of
Speaker 2: Sview Born Psychopath where she plays the mother of a
Speaker 2: very very scary psychopath, scary path.
Speaker 4: It's scary. I know, I know she had a lot
Speaker 4: of fun doing that. I think that was more recently
Speaker 4: than mine if I recall that.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, hers was like season fifteen or something was
Speaker 2: season ten?
Speaker 1: Ten? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Ten? Yeah. So yeah, so she's.
Speaker 2: Are you like giving her tips? You're like, here's how
Speaker 2: you get in there and handle SVU.
Speaker 4: They're gonna do your coverage first, honey, So just be ready, ready,
Speaker 4: and comb the hair forward. I think that'll work. No, yeah,
Speaker 4: she's she's well versed with on screen acting, so she
Speaker 4: didn't really need to.
Speaker 1: Any You guys are a hip, cool couple.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we try, you know, we try to stay the.
Speaker 1: Red carpet photos are cool. You guys look you look great.
Speaker 1: Are you guys based in New York or LA?
Speaker 4: We're basically lived in LA for six years from twenty
Speaker 4: seventeen to twenty twenty three, but we've been before that
Speaker 4: and since then we've been back in New York.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we are.
Speaker 4: We are in Brooklyn. We have a house in Brooklyn.
Speaker 2: We talked to a lot of actors where their partner
Speaker 2: also acts, and we always ask.
Speaker 1: Like, oh, do you guys like run scenes together? Do
Speaker 1: you help each other with auditions or do you just
Speaker 1: like keep it separate with each other?
Speaker 4: Okay, no, we totally do. I mean you know, depending
Speaker 4: on what it is. I mean, my kids have helped
Speaker 4: me with auditions, yeah, because they're now like a college
Speaker 4: age and but my wife definitely has and vice versa.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: I like that the kids are involved.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Are they doing the following in the family business or
Speaker 1: what you know.
Speaker 4: My eldest daughter just graduated college literally.
Speaker 1: Last weekends, coct and.
Speaker 4: For years, thank you. For years as a kid talked
Speaker 4: about wanting to be an actor. In fact, it was
Speaker 4: funny because there were several Christmases around the time Georgie
Speaker 4: was like a tween where she would give her Christmas
Speaker 4: wish list to mom, you know, to my wife, and
Speaker 4: it would be like whatever, you know, toys and whatever.
Speaker 4: And then I'd get a separate list that would always
Speaker 4: have an agent written on. I want an agent. And
Speaker 4: she kind of knew not to ask, Hope, but somehow
Speaker 4: she thought because I was like the softy that like
Speaker 4: I would, Yeah, I'm gonna get you. I'm gonna get
Speaker 4: you an agent for Christmas. You just you open up
Speaker 4: a giant box and they'll be an agent and there'll be.
Speaker 1: A guy in there with like uh yeah an eyes.
Speaker 4: Yeah you know, okay, rolling.
Speaker 2: Wearing a head piece, wearing like exactly microphone exactly.
Speaker 4: But but in recent years has has kind of decided
Speaker 4: maybe maybe not to pursue the acting. So we're like
Speaker 4: relieved enough anyway, and is now thinking of going to
Speaker 4: nursing school. So we're oh, yeah, yeah, wants to help
Speaker 4: people and one.
Speaker 2: Of the professions that I don't think AI will be
Speaker 2: able to take over as well.
Speaker 1: A great idea.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: I have little kids, and I'm like, I don't know
Speaker 2: what they're going to do, Like by.
Speaker 1: The times, will there be jobs, maybe robot maintenance. I
Speaker 1: don't know what it's going to be.
Speaker 4: They'll be robot maintenance. So that's yeah, I don't know. Man, Yeah,
Speaker 4: maybe it'll just be universal basic income by then.
Speaker 1: We can dream, can't we. Yeah, well, I'll talk about
Speaker 1: another classic show. You were in Sex and the City. Hello,
Speaker 1: the guy who brings soup.
Speaker 4: They double booked us.
Speaker 1: It was all the double booking.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's another classic episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: That was also super fun, super fun.
Speaker 1: And that time period has a lot of overlap between
Speaker 1: SVU and Sex and the City Men. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of on the way. Yeah, there's just a lot.
Speaker 4: It's exciting totally. Yeah, that was like I think that
Speaker 4: was nineteen ninety nine that I shot that. That was
Speaker 4: episode season two of Sex and the City. It was
Speaker 4: still like a new show. It's so funny to think
Speaker 4: of it that way, but it was kind of like
Speaker 4: a new this new.
Speaker 2: Thing, Like I mean, besides the fact that you're doing
Speaker 2: this musical where I'm assuming you sing in the musical,
Speaker 2: you also are like doing music as a musician, Like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been, I've been, you know, making records and
Speaker 4: putting out music, uh actively for like almost like thirteen
Speaker 4: fourteen years. I was always obsessed with music as a kid,
Speaker 4: was like writing songs when I was a little kid,
Speaker 4: was in bands like in high school and college. But
Speaker 4: as my career in my twenties, you know, got going
Speaker 4: and I got busy, I sort of put it to
Speaker 4: the side. But it was that funny thing where like
Speaker 4: in my early forties, I kind of rediscovered this this
Speaker 4: love of songwriting. And the thing that I found empowering
Speaker 4: about making music is that I could I could just
Speaker 4: choose to do it, you know. As an actor, so
Speaker 4: often you're sort of like pick me for the role,
Speaker 4: and you know, you're sort of disempowered by that, by
Speaker 4: that fact, unless you're creating your own content and like
Speaker 4: writing and producing your own work as an actor, you're
Speaker 4: really at the mercy of others. And so with music,
Speaker 4: I found it was just super kind of soul satisfying
Speaker 4: to make records because it's something I love to do
Speaker 4: that gives me a lot of joy and that I
Speaker 4: don't have to wait around for permission to do it,
Speaker 4: you know. And so it's been a very fulfilling little
Speaker 4: side journey that I've been on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we talked to another actress like earlier that had
Speaker 2: similar thoughts that was doing music and was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just like the acting is so much rejection, and
Speaker 2: with the music, I can just make my music, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and now is so easy to put like to
Speaker 4: share it with the world now, you know. Obviously getting
Speaker 4: large amounts of people to listen is another challenge, but
Speaker 4: I don't really that's not really why I do it.
Speaker 4: I do it because I need to. I have this
Speaker 4: need and just there's nothing I love more than being
Speaker 4: in a recording studio with musicians, making you know, recordings
Speaker 4: of music that I've written. It just gives me extreme,
Speaker 4: you know pleasure.
Speaker 1: How would you describe your music.
Speaker 2: I'm looking at the I'm I was looking at your
Speaker 2: Instagram and I was like, it was I was wondering
Speaker 2: if it was like a folky Americana type thing.
Speaker 1: But I could be totally incorrect.
Speaker 4: Some some of it is, but I mean it's I've
Speaker 4: always had a fairly eclectic just taste in music. So
Speaker 4: there's there's real like rock and roll kind of stuff.
Speaker 4: There's kind of more indie rock kind of stuff. There's
Speaker 4: you know, country ish. I mean, I've made a couple
Speaker 4: of records down in Nashville. My most recent recordings I
Speaker 4: made in Philadelphia with an incredible musician friend of mine
Speaker 4: named Kirby Cybert. So it runs the gamut. There's even
Speaker 4: kind of jazzy, some jazzy ish, you know kind of
Speaker 4: music that I've made. So you know, yeah, it's it's eclectic.
Speaker 1: All right. We'll love people's that's what's your instabio. The
Speaker 1: order is singer, songwriter, actor, father, husband.
Speaker 4: You know that is really when I when I rediscovered
Speaker 4: music in my forties, I really suddenly felt like almost
Speaker 4: that acting was like my day job in a funny way.
Speaker 4: I mean, and it's not to say that I don't
Speaker 4: take great pleasure from acting. But anyway, there's just something
Speaker 4: about the singer songwriter stuff that that kind of fills
Speaker 4: me in a deeper in a deeper way than you know,
Speaker 4: because it's it's expressing my own ideas and thoughts and
Speaker 4: feelings and stuff like that. It was really around the
Speaker 4: death of my mother. Actually I wasn't going to necessarily
Speaker 4: talk about this, but my mom died when I was
Speaker 4: forty three, and she loved music and and right around
Speaker 4: the time of her death is when I had written
Speaker 4: a new song that I hadn't written a song in years,
Speaker 4: and I ended up going to Nashville just to record
Speaker 4: this one song because I had a friend down there
Speaker 4: who was like, down and do it, and and it
Speaker 4: was so much fun. And then my mom passed away
Speaker 4: like six weeks later, and I spent the next year
Speaker 4: making trips down to Nashville with old you know, I
Speaker 4: found songs in desk drawers that I'd forgotten about, and
Speaker 4: wrote some new stuff and ended up making a whole record.
Speaker 4: And it was really the most incredible way to sort of,
Speaker 4: you know, channel my grief into something creative as a way,
Speaker 4: as like a tribute to my mom. And her love
Speaker 4: of music, and so really since then it's just been
Speaker 4: like the floodgates sort of open.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so beautiful. Yeah, how did you? And how
Speaker 1: did I was gonna ask how did you and your
Speaker 1: wife meet? Did you guys meet? Being on like a
Speaker 1: show together, like a project?
Speaker 4: We were set up by a mutual friend, a theater director,
Speaker 4: a guy named Nicholas Martin, and and so she and
Speaker 4: I had worked with him, but never together, and he
Speaker 4: kind of felt like we would make a great couple,
Speaker 4: so he set us up. We met at his sixtieth
Speaker 4: birthday party at Cafe Undoutois, which is a you know,
Speaker 4: sort of storied, you know, theater restaurant right in Times
Speaker 4: Square that's been there forever. And so we met at
Speaker 4: his sixtieth and it was kind of a bus We
Speaker 4: were both feeling really shy, so we just sort of
Speaker 4: said hello and then like at the end of the night,
Speaker 4: we said goodbye, just to meet you. But then subsequently
Speaker 4: she very fortunately went to dinner with some other friends
Speaker 4: like a night or two later, and mentioned told the
Speaker 4: story of how this kind of thing had not really
Speaker 4: panned out, and they knew me, and they were like,
Speaker 4: you should you should call, You should call. Yeah, he's
Speaker 4: a good guy. So she called me, she said, do
Speaker 4: you want to get a coffee? And we've been together.
Speaker 4: We just celebrated actually twenty seven years since our first date. Whoa,
Speaker 4: which was the twenty first of June was our first
Speaker 4: day anniversary and we went to see Into Thin Air,
Speaker 4: the documentary about climbing Mount Everest, at the sixty eighth
Speaker 4: and Broadway Lincoln Square Cinema, and then we went to
Speaker 4: dinner after.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 2: You guys have been around as long or a little
Speaker 2: long for then SVU as a.
Speaker 1: Show, a ninety ninety nine premiere date for both things.
Speaker 1: It feels like around.
Speaker 4: We've been around since ninety eight, ninety eight. Yeah, yeah, wow,
Speaker 4: So it's it's been a very good marriage.
Speaker 2: Very that's amazing. That's so lovely to hear. Thank you
Speaker 2: so much for taking the time to talk to us.
Speaker 4: This was really such a such a pleasure you guys,
Speaker 4: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And this will come out in a couple of
Speaker 2: weeks and hopefully people will go see Wrinkle in time
Speaker 2: and I hope we see you in Wrinkling on Broadway soon.
Speaker 4: Fingers crossed, Fingers cross.
Speaker 1: You know, I've started now being addicted to bringing up
Speaker 1: every actor to Ted, and he loves this guy and
Speaker 1: he loves Hope. He loves them both. He's like, I
Speaker 1: haven't seen him in a while, like wonderful he's in DC.
Speaker 1: But yeah, Ted, I trust a lot, and we've according
Speaker 1: to his reviews of these people were killing it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you're acting coach needs to listen. He
Speaker 2: does like he does.
Speaker 1: Okay. He also said he made his acting class watch
Speaker 1: my special. I'm like, now that's an ally. Wow. Wow.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I hope that this Wrinkle and Time
Speaker 2: musical comes to New York and we can all see
Speaker 2: this guy on Broadway because he was delightful and he
Speaker 2: seems like he's in this wonderful power couple married to
Speaker 2: the mom from from real uh you know, born psychopaths.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he loves the craft. He loves the craft,
Speaker 1: he loves his children. It's fucking cute. Yeah, it's great,
Speaker 1: it's great crime.
Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, I loved him also talking
Speaker 2: about how he made a choice going into the audition,
Speaker 2: which I think was to have his hair look that
Speaker 2: awful and it probably got him the part in the end,
Speaker 2: And I just I don't know.
Speaker 1: This is one of those doing seriously, you shouldn't have
Speaker 1: to disc your address, like the burden of everything should
Speaker 1: not be on the person being stalked, and we I
Speaker 1: mean this is like a common thing. And talking about
Speaker 1: like violence against women, you know, it's like, yeah, they
Speaker 1: don't take it seriously. Most women are murdered when they
Speaker 1: try to leave. Restraining orders do not work, like there
Speaker 1: needs to be some sort of intervention. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: someone posted one of my clothes from one of our
Speaker 1: last episodes. I'm like, wait, is this something? What was it?
Speaker 1: That bear mace works on men and bears? I go,
Speaker 1: should I go with this? That's merch base we're reposting.
Speaker 2: Wait, I randomly in my feed speaking of like taking
Speaker 2: men's behavior seriously, and shit, this might be a reach
Speaker 2: because I'm not watching the valley, but like I have
Speaker 2: dipped into the valley. I saw this post about this
Speaker 2: woman saying that Jax is like a classic family annihilator.
Speaker 1: Yeah you saw that too, Oh yeah, no, I definitely.
Speaker 1: I think I think they that was for our feeds
Speaker 1: for sure. I think in terms of Instagram.
Speaker 2: Knowing what we were, like, you love family Annihilators because
Speaker 2: I am sort of weirdly obsessed with family annihilators. But
Speaker 2: I don't want Britney to get annihilated or her little baby.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, we don't want anyone annihilated. I hope
Speaker 1: that Bravo kicks him off, but that might anger him more.
Speaker 1: I mean, I hope she's protected and doing everything right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the thing. But the video, you don't want him
Speaker 1: on TV. But rock bottom no responsibility, blaming everyone. I
Speaker 1: mean to get out of rehab and go I'm I
Speaker 1: just got out of rehab. I want to go out,
Speaker 1: and a woman should not have a five bedroom house.
Speaker 1: It's like it's just psycho. Yeah, he's yeah, he doesn't
Speaker 1: care about his kid. He went and got both to
Speaker 1: like he's a dangerous, dangerous person. He has been Bravo
Speaker 1: and most reality tea in the world protects bad men. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I think Spencer Pratt was so abusive. Like everyone says,
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, it's this beautiful, loving relationship and they're
Speaker 1: meant for each other, and he's so doning and loves
Speaker 1: his wife. It's like, if you watch the Hills, he
Speaker 1: isolated her from everyone would show up at her jaw
Speaker 1: like he was very not it was not okay, and
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden you got ten surgeries in
Speaker 1: a day, like blast of ras. Like I was like,
Speaker 1: this is what I want. I love it. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's tough. It's tough. Yeah. I mean.
Speaker 2: The thing about like the way that this comes back to,
Speaker 2: like this as view episode two is like, sure it sucks.
Speaker 2: This guy was kidnapped at a young age and has
Speaker 2: probably had a horrible life. But the woman that was
Speaker 2: like fully sexually assaulted his ex girlfriend, like is also
Speaker 2: going to be experiencing.
Speaker 1: A lot of trauma going forward. But also that's on
Speaker 1: the cops, Like why didn't they investigate more? Like you
Speaker 1: just assumed this other guy took this little boy, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like they had a narrow view,
Speaker 1: Like that's the whole point about investigating, Like you can't
Speaker 1: have a specific point of well we see yeah, we
Speaker 1: see that all the time with the cops.
Speaker 2: They get an idea in their head and they're like
Speaker 2: this is what happened, and they don't even look at
Speaker 2: alternate theories.
Speaker 1: Oh you know, I'm always looking a little on YouTube shorts.
Speaker 1: But Denzel Washington was offered Brad Pitt's part in seven
Speaker 1: and he didn't want to. Yeah, he was like mad,
Speaker 1: too dark and weird, and he goes. When I saw it,
Speaker 1: I was like fuck. But then well yeah, and then
Speaker 1: I saw Brad Pitt say, when he started reading it,
Speaker 1: he called his agent. He's like, I'm not fucking doing this,
Speaker 1: like cop retirement bullshit, and they were like, keep reading,
Speaker 1: keep reading, Brad, And I thought those were like so funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because then Denzel was in The Bone Collector, which
Speaker 2: reminds me very much of seven, so but a very
Speaker 2: different Oh but you know that in Bone Collector and
Speaker 2: seven it is the same bad guy. I'm almost positive. No, no,
Speaker 2: it's not the same bad guy. The bad guy is
Speaker 2: the guy it's not Kevin Spacey. No, the bad guy
Speaker 2: in Bone Collector is the guy who has to wear
Speaker 2: the like knife dildo in seven, not but a guy
Speaker 2: who has to be a bad thing. Yeah yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: a poor, a poor, sad guy. But yeah, yeah, they're
Speaker 2: the same guy. And I was behind him one time
Speaker 2: at a comic book store and was like, I really
Speaker 2: wanted to be like, I love your work as a
Speaker 2: total creepy person every time I see you, but yeah,
Speaker 2: this the post mortem of this episode is like, I fuck,
Speaker 2: I don't know, Yeah, take fucking stocking seriously.
Speaker 1: And police, why don't you open up your scope of investigations?
Speaker 1: Like someone just snatched this boy like and you and
Speaker 1: you just assumed it was this other pedophile. I don't know. Sucks. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just also like the idea of someone just getting
Speaker 1: molested their whole life, like what the hell?
Speaker 2: And also, if you're some guy that's gonna like do
Speaker 2: a rape fantasy, I think that you should like check
Speaker 2: in or something in ahead of time. There needs to
Speaker 2: be like a like a wor there needs to be
Speaker 2: some kind of like check in, like, you know, so
Speaker 2: that you're not doing it to somebody that did not
Speaker 2: actually sign up for it. That guy being like I'm
Speaker 2: just so much a victim as she is. He was
Speaker 2: so mad for himself, but I'm like, you're stupid, That's
Speaker 2: what I mean. Check like check, do your due diligence.
Speaker 2: I don't know how, but you got to.
Speaker 1: All right? Should we move into our what would Sister
Speaker 1: Peg do? This week? For what What's the ster peg Do?
Speaker 2: Which is our weekly segment where we direct you towards
Speaker 2: sometimes a book, a documentary, a website, an organization to
Speaker 2: give you more info about what we talked about today's episode.
Speaker 2: We wanted to point you today to the docuseriies Captive
Speaker 2: Audience Colon, a real American horror story, which details the kidnapping, abuse,
Speaker 2: and heroic escape of Steven Stainer, who I talked about
Speaker 2: that this is based on.
Speaker 1: It also covers his serial murderer brother, Carrie.
Speaker 2: So if you wanted more information on the fact that
Speaker 2: this poor kid that was kidnapped ended up being related
Speaker 2: to a serial killer later you can check that all out.
Speaker 1: It's on Hulu.
Speaker 2: We will link to it in our show notes and
Speaker 2: in a story that comes out the day this episode
Speaker 2: comes out. Those are all saved on our Instagram page
Speaker 2: under our w WSPD highlights, and our instagram is That's
Speaker 2: Messed Up Pod. Follow us for posts about episodes coming
Speaker 2: up and general way to get in.
Speaker 1: Touch with us. Amazing and next week we'll be doing
Speaker 1: Anchor season eleven, episode ten. You can imagine not a
Speaker 1: positive one, but come see us live. We'll do something
Speaker 1: silly and obsessed with all of you. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: Fight Fascism definitely bye That's Messed Up as an exactly
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Speaker 1: see our show notes for sources and more information. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien and
Speaker 1: our associate produced Christina Chamberlain, and to our mixer John
Speaker 1: Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry
Speaker 1: Kaperski for our theme song, and Carly Geen Andrews for
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Speaker 1: Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 1: Dun Dun