Speaker 1: Welcome to Bill and Juliana the Podcast. Welcome to Bill
Speaker 1: and Juliana the Podcast. And today we are tackling a
Speaker 1: really important question. Why is parenting so hard? So hard?
Speaker 1: So hard?
Speaker 2: Yes, you know, I have to say, this is a
Speaker 2: big episode. And here's the bottom line. Guys and a
Speaker 2: lot of the parents out there feel this way. We're
Speaker 2: more connected than ever, We're more informed than ever. Yet
Speaker 2: most of us are completely exhausted and confused. So are
Speaker 2: we doing too much? Are our kids just struggling more
Speaker 2: than like our generation did? Does modern parenting just come
Speaker 2: with a whole new set of challenges? So to help
Speaker 2: us make sense of all of it, we are joined
Speaker 2: now by someone that we is, you know, we feel
Speaker 2: is a very trusted expert for us.
Speaker 1: He's been very helpful for us, for our family.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you how we met actually, but we are
Speaker 2: joined by Mike McLeod. He's an expert in ADHD executive
Speaker 2: functioning in child development. He has spent more than twenty
Speaker 2: years helping kids.
Speaker 1: Speak of the devil, that's our son calling, Oh my.
Speaker 2: God, do you see Mike? Okay, So he has spent
Speaker 2: more than twenty years helping kids and families thrive through
Speaker 2: his fabulous company called grow Now ADHD. And that's actually
Speaker 2: how I saw him on Instagram. I saw his Instagram.
Speaker 1: He's an all around great guy. Yes as well, So Mike,
Speaker 1: I'm really thrilled to have him here.
Speaker 2: Thanks for being here today.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. I'm so excited. I wish I
Speaker 3: was there in person.
Speaker 2: I know we wish you were here too. So Mike
Speaker 2: was supposed to be here with us in Chicago in
Speaker 2: our studio here, and unfortunately his flight got canceled from
Speaker 2: Philly last night. There was a storm, right, Mike.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was It seemed like it was a really
Speaker 4: bad storm, like a tornado watch and they I have
Speaker 4: the old delay delay, delay, and then finally canceled it.
Speaker 3: I waited as long as I could, but it just
Speaker 3: didn't happen.
Speaker 2: And you know what, you know, Mike is doing a
Speaker 2: great job when the parents love him and even the
Speaker 2: kid loves him. Because and let me tell you, Duke
Speaker 2: doesn't love you every day. I'm gonna be honest with you.
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes you push him too hard, he says,
Speaker 2: and you know it gets him out of his comfort zone.
Speaker 2: But that's where he grows. But I will say when
Speaker 2: he heard you were coming to Chicago and he was
Speaker 2: going to actually meet you in person, he was so excited,
Speaker 2: so excited. And then today when we told him that
Speaker 2: the flight got canceled, he was very sad.
Speaker 1: Mike, I wouldn't. I mean, it was bumped, bumped sad.
Speaker 1: Let's just go with the very sad, all right, We'll
Speaker 1: go with that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely a little hot and cold there.
Speaker 4: You can tell, uh, you know, if I'm going to
Speaker 4: keep pushing him, obviously he's gonna he's gonna get annoyed
Speaker 4: every now and then, and he.
Speaker 3: Needs he needs to hear how it is.
Speaker 4: Because that young man can do anything he sets his
Speaker 4: mind to, and he needs someone to remind him. And
Speaker 4: sometimes that can be a little frustrating.
Speaker 2: So I came across Mike's amazing work on Instagram, where
Speaker 2: I come across a lot of things. That's really why
Speaker 2: we started this show, right Phil, Because of Instagram and
Speaker 2: all the questions people have, and I saw Mike's videos
Speaker 2: started kind of they got in my algorithm. Mike, you
Speaker 2: got in my algorithm because I would always click on
Speaker 2: this stuff about parenting, especially with kids, because I was
Speaker 2: so confused, is my son you know, is executive functioning?
Speaker 2: What does that mean? It sounds like all these things
Speaker 2: people are saying about ADHD and executive functioning sounds a
Speaker 2: lot like my thirteen year old son. And so I
Speaker 2: started watching a lot of Mike's videos and then I
Speaker 2: think I DMed you initially, and then we chatted with you,
Speaker 2: and you've been amazing, you know, so many kids, as
Speaker 2: I'm sure you will confirm. You know, it seems like
Speaker 2: are just you know, our ADHD have have need work
Speaker 2: with executive functioning. So let's just hop in, well, let's
Speaker 2: start there.
Speaker 1: The numbers don't lie. And is it just that we're
Speaker 1: able to diagnose things better or has the world changed,
Speaker 1: And you know, are the numbers really growing or have
Speaker 1: they always been this bad? If you look at the
Speaker 1: rate of ADHD, the rate of autism, you know, all
Speaker 1: the things that are troubling our kids today, it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's ten x from where it was forty years ago.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's really a mix of both overall. You know,
Speaker 4: we definitely have underdiagnosed in the past, especially with females,
Speaker 4: young girls. We're sort of you know, weren't that stereotypical
Speaker 4: hyperactive type much more? Uh, inattentive and more internalizing things.
Speaker 4: So we definitely underdiagnosed in females and girls. And I
Speaker 4: think now with you know, mom said it best as
Speaker 4: as she usually does, we're very, uh extra informed now
Speaker 4: and maybe we're a little.
Speaker 3: Too informed where, you know.
Speaker 4: I think now, especially with all the screens and this
Speaker 4: attention economy we're in, Uh, it's hard to find someone
Speaker 4: that doesn't think they have ADHD these days. Everyone's always like, oh,
Speaker 4: I think I have it because it's one of those
Speaker 4: like quirky little things. Uh, And all of our attention
Speaker 4: has taken a real shot. So I think it's a
Speaker 4: nice mix of overdiagnosing and underdiagnosing.
Speaker 3: I think it's a little bit bit of both.
Speaker 2: So Mike, from when you've started to today, I mean,
Speaker 2: I imagine the demand is tenfold, right, Like I imagine you
Speaker 2: must get so many people reaching out to you saying,
Speaker 2: my son, I think my son has this, my daughter
Speaker 2: has this? What do I do? Right? And I'm so
Speaker 2: curious what are the questions you get the most? Like
Speaker 2: what are a lot of parents feeling right now when
Speaker 2: it comes to their kids, especially let's say, I mean
Speaker 2: really any age kids, preteen, teen, young.
Speaker 4: Kids, everything pretty much today with parenting revolves around I
Speaker 4: need my kid to be more independent, because that's pretty
Speaker 4: much what we're dealing with right here, is we're dealing
Speaker 4: with a youth mental health crisis, a parenting crisis, and
Speaker 4: a lot of this is due to the lack of
Speaker 4: executive functioning skills, and these skills that are so crucial
Speaker 4: to being able to take charge of your own life,
Speaker 4: to execute, to notice and do, to not be so
Speaker 4: prompt dependent on the adults in your life, the parents,
Speaker 4: to be the executive functioning system for you. So so
Speaker 4: many of these kids just need prompt after prompt after
Speaker 4: prompt to get up in the morning and get to
Speaker 4: school on time, to set play dates and start hanging
Speaker 4: out with their friends, to get to bed on time,
Speaker 4: to do their homework, to do basic chores. Parents are
Speaker 4: just doing too much, and the mental load for you know,
Speaker 4: most often is one of the parents, or sometimes both
Speaker 4: of the parents, the absolute exhaustions. How many parents today,
Speaker 4: how many parents listening to this podcast right now, are
Speaker 4: the executive functioning system for their entire family, and they don't.
Speaker 4: They never get a chance to take their parenting hat
Speaker 4: off and just be themselves and hang out with their
Speaker 4: friends and follow their interests. So what we're dealing with
Speaker 4: right now is just how do I get my son
Speaker 4: to be able to do more and for me to
Speaker 4: do less? And that's all executive functioning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it really does feel like every parent is
Speaker 2: talking about this. You know, it's funny we're sending Duke
Speaker 2: to camp for the first time.
Speaker 1: Her your advice, Mike, that's right, helped kind of push
Speaker 1: that along, So thank you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's kind of like, yeah, he does not
Speaker 2: want to go. He did not want to go. He's
Speaker 2: coming around more of it.
Speaker 1: Well, he started to realize it's not negotiable.
Speaker 2: Well, he started realizing things like, well, am I supposed
Speaker 2: to make my own bed? And I'm like yeah, and
Speaker 2: he's like uh and okay, and how will I eat?
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, and what will I How am
Speaker 2: I going to function in this world? And it's interesting
Speaker 2: because for the reasons we're sending him to camp, or
Speaker 2: the reasons we're seeing why he needs camp is because
Speaker 2: he literally cannot do anything without a prompt from us.
Speaker 2: And are you saying that that's what you're seeing? I
Speaker 2: like how you said that, Like kids have to be
Speaker 2: prompted more than ever. And is that why something like
Speaker 2: camp is good for kids right and giving them those experiences.
Speaker 4: And that's exactly it, because how many parents today are
Speaker 4: operating under the constant mindset every second of every day.
Speaker 4: They're thinking in their mind, nothing gets done unless I
Speaker 4: step in, where the second you wake up, you know
Speaker 4: your kid's not going to do anything unless you're there,
Speaker 4: unless you're the audience. And we know how ADHD kids
Speaker 4: are with an audience. That's where that's and all the
Speaker 4: behaviors happen as they're getting that attention. So the parents
Speaker 4: are just stuck in this anxiety trap where they know
Speaker 4: that everything's going to fall apart unless I step in,
Speaker 4: take charge and take control here, which then I refer
Speaker 4: to this as the ADHD paradox, where the child basically
Speaker 4: has these executive functioning challenges, is very prompt dependent and
Speaker 4: instead of sort of figuring things out on their own,
Speaker 4: having multipled adults in their lives hold them accountable like
Speaker 4: we all had when we were kids. Now kids are
Speaker 4: spending more time at home with their parents than ever before,
Speaker 4: so the kid's very prompt dependent and the parent starts
Speaker 4: to think nothing gets done unless I step in and
Speaker 4: they unintentionally become a helicopter parent. They end up over prompting,
Speaker 4: which then stimulates their negative attention stimulation. They get lots
Speaker 4: of dopamine from negative attention and condoned and it just
Speaker 4: feeds into this vicious cycle. So you know, that's really
Speaker 4: what's happening is parents are stuck knowing that if I
Speaker 4: don't help, everything's going to fall apart. But the overhelping
Speaker 4: is making everything fall apart.
Speaker 1: I want, I want to just take a step back.
Speaker 1: You know, you've been doing this twenty years now. How
Speaker 1: did you get into it? Like explain to people because
Speaker 1: you were kind of, I guess a visionary. I mean
Speaker 1: you saw the road, you know that we were going
Speaker 1: down as a society. But just tell everyone kind of
Speaker 1: how you got into this and how you've become such
Speaker 1: an expert.
Speaker 3: Oh sure, yeah.
Speaker 4: So I always wanted to be a teacher, Like even
Speaker 4: when I was a young kid. I used to do
Speaker 4: tons of babysitting when I was a kid, and you know,
Speaker 4: working with different camps and different groups.
Speaker 3: So I always wanted to be a teacher.
Speaker 4: My mom was a very very decorated teacher over in
Speaker 4: Long Island where I grew up. So she taught at
Speaker 4: the same high school where she went as a student
Speaker 4: and then was there for decades and decades and was
Speaker 4: the head of her department, and she would tutor kids
Speaker 4: after school. So in the house I grew up, and
Speaker 4: they were kids coming in and out constantly, and she
Speaker 4: was tutor them for their SATs and their math regents
Speaker 4: exams and all those different things. So I went in
Speaker 4: to the School of Education for my undergrad and I eventually,
Speaker 4: you know, down the road, ended up working at this
Speaker 4: residential treatment facility in New York where kids lived full
Speaker 4: time on campus because they had such complex needs, and
Speaker 4: they also went to schools. They were pretty much never
Speaker 4: with their parents. They were always in this residential facility
Speaker 4: and I was able to work. I was one to
Speaker 4: one with a student and he started to receive speech
Speaker 4: and language therapy, and I realized, hey, I can work
Speaker 4: with students one on one on skills that actually improve
Speaker 4: their quality of life. It helps them, you know, interact
Speaker 4: with better. It makes them feel better about themselves. Instead
Speaker 4: of teaching them like math facts and the periodic table
Speaker 4: and things they'll never use, I can actually teach them
Speaker 4: things that make them feel good about themselves and improve.
Speaker 3: Their quality of life.
Speaker 4: So I went back to get my second bachelor's degree
Speaker 4: in speech and language pathology.
Speaker 3: So I was at speech and language pathologist.
Speaker 4: I moved from New York to Philadelphia, and during my
Speaker 4: first year as a speech pathologist, I was working with
Speaker 4: this great organization that worked with boys and girls with
Speaker 4: these different chromosomal disorders, and my supervisor wasn't a proxy
Speaker 4: a specialist, and I found out that all the majority
Speaker 4: of these kids also had ADHD, and I realized very
Speaker 4: quickly that there's really nothing out there that's actually moving
Speaker 4: the needle for these kids. They're being sent to all
Speaker 4: these talk therapies and counseling and cognitive behavioral therapy DBT
Speaker 4: social skills group, and nothing is helping them make friends
Speaker 4: outside of the group. Nothing's helping them go to college,
Speaker 4: nothing's helping them.
Speaker 3: Achieve their goals.
Speaker 4: And the parents are spending all these hours and all
Speaker 4: their money on these therapies and counseling and nothing's helping.
Speaker 4: So that's when I took a very huge deep dive
Speaker 4: with all those doctors and neuropsychs down in DC and Annapolis, Maryland,
Speaker 4: and I took a deep dive into the work of
Speaker 4: doctor Russell Barkley, who's the worldwide leader on ADHD, who
Speaker 4: just recently retired, doctor George McCloskey, Sarah Ward, Kristen Jacobson,
Speaker 4: it's the great pioneers in this field. And I developed
Speaker 4: the grow Now Internal Skills model. We did a year
Speaker 4: long research study on it down here and everything's expanded
Speaker 4: from there amazing.
Speaker 2: So let's start at the beginning. Explain first and foremost
Speaker 2: what is ADHD, or maybe I should say people know
Speaker 2: what it means, but what are some of the symptoms
Speaker 2: of ADHD, like what are some of the ways it
Speaker 2: manifests itself? And then also executive functioning.
Speaker 4: Of course, and that is a fantastic question because both
Speaker 4: of those things are so incredibly misunderstood, because, first of all,
Speaker 4: ADHD is not in attention disorder. It's not about attention,
Speaker 4: it's not about hyperactivity, it's not about inattentiveness. ADHD, and
Speaker 4: doctor rosso Barkley describes this better than anyone. ADHD is
Speaker 4: a developmental disorder of executive functioning skills. So there's a
Speaker 4: big a lot of discussion now of let's change ADHD
Speaker 4: to EFDD executive functioning developmental disorder that's really what it's
Speaker 4: all about. So ADHD is all about executive functioning. You
Speaker 4: can have executive functioning challenges and not have ADHD. Sure
Speaker 4: you can be depressed or have other primary diagnoses, but
Speaker 4: if you have ADHD, you struggle with executive functions period
Speaker 4: and executive functions are the most crucial set of skills
Speaker 4: for all human beings to develop, the greatest predictor of
Speaker 4: success for all human beings, Far greater than your grades,
Speaker 4: your homework, your good looks like you two, all those
Speaker 4: different things. It's all about executive functions. So you have
Speaker 4: to have your executive functioning skills to be able to
Speaker 4: live on your own, live independently, get a job, keep
Speaker 4: a job, make friends, keep friends, all of that.
Speaker 2: So what are some executive functions?
Speaker 4: Yep, So most people hear the term executive functions and
Speaker 4: they think time management, organization, messy backpacks, messy folders, and
Speaker 4: that is an incredibly that is the smallest possible fraction
Speaker 4: of what executive functions are. So I break down executive
Speaker 4: functions into the four pillars of internal skills. The first
Speaker 4: executive skill is self awareness, which is the very first
Speaker 4: executive skill to develop. Do you guys, know what age
Speaker 4: that starts? What age that develops self awareness?
Speaker 2: Self awareness?
Speaker 3: Three? Even younger, little tiny babies, little.
Speaker 4: Babies start to realize, hey, wait a second, when I cry,
Speaker 4: what happens?
Speaker 1: Huh? I get what I want?
Speaker 3: There you go.
Speaker 4: Mom and dad come, They hold me, they sing to me.
Speaker 4: And you know when I smile in Mom's face, Mom
Speaker 4: smiles back. And they start to realize, hey, I have
Speaker 4: an effect over my world. I can actually do things
Speaker 4: that change the world around me. That's the beginning of
Speaker 4: self awareness, the first executive skill to develop, but over
Speaker 4: time becomes one of the most delayed. And that's the
Speaker 4: real heartbreak of ADHD, right around those middle school years
Speaker 4: when the lack of self awareness impacts them socially, so
Speaker 4: because that can really really impact them in a big way.
Speaker 4: And then the big one is self regulation, So the
Speaker 4: ability to regulate your emotions, your language, your body, your
Speaker 4: behavior in various environments towards various stimuli. So it's not hyperactivity,
Speaker 4: it's the inability to regulate your body. It's not in attentiveness,
Speaker 4: it's the inability to regulate your thoughts.
Speaker 3: But really, at its.
Speaker 4: Core, it is an emotional disregulation issue and doctor Russell
Speaker 4: Barkley talks about this all the time. As you look
Speaker 4: at the DSM, the Diagnostic Standards Manual of all the
Speaker 4: criteria to get diagnosed with ADHD, it doesn't talk about emotions,
Speaker 4: but ADHD is all about emotion management and emotion dysregulation.
Speaker 3: That's the core of it.
Speaker 4: And then of course self motivation towards non preferred tasks,
Speaker 4: non screen based tasks, new tasks like camp and things
Speaker 4: like that. Then self evaluation, the ability to learn from
Speaker 4: past experiences apply it to the present and not repeat
Speaker 4: mistakes over and over.
Speaker 3: So the lack of.
Speaker 4: Internal skills creates all those external symptoms we inappropriately focused
Speaker 4: on for far too long.
Speaker 2: So one thing that in working with Mike, I think
Speaker 2: Bill and I found very surprising, right about the whole
Speaker 2: kind of about executive functioning ADHD, is when you have
Speaker 2: a kid who needs to strengthen his executive functioning has
Speaker 2: some ADHD, you find that they have these big feelings
Speaker 2: and big emotions. You hear about this with kids, and
Speaker 2: they have these big feelings, big emotions, high highs, low lows,
Speaker 2: and as a parent, you can't help but come to
Speaker 2: the rescue of those big feelings and emotions, and Mike says,
Speaker 2: that's what you should not be doing. What parents do
Speaker 2: and what we think is our job is to like
Speaker 2: talk to them about these emotions, reason with them, and
Speaker 2: spend hours and you hear that. That's one of I think, Mike,
Speaker 2: one of the reasons a lot of these parents are
Speaker 2: so exhausted, and I probably learned this from you, is
Speaker 2: because we're just all it feels like all day, we're
Speaker 2: just like talking through this these like emotions, and a
Speaker 2: lot of them are repetitive, right, like they like like
Speaker 2: you think that you solved it two days ago, and
Speaker 2: then it comes up again. And so Bill and I
Speaker 2: thought like, oh my gosh, you know, are we failing
Speaker 2: as parents? Are we not good parents? Are we not
Speaker 2: listening enough? Are we not giving him the right solutions?
Speaker 2: All this stuff? And then we go to Mike and
Speaker 2: Mike goes, well, I'll let you talk Mike. But Mike
Speaker 2: basically was like, hey, guys, no, no, no, you need
Speaker 2: to back off. He knows exactly what he's doing. So
Speaker 2: our son falls within these guidelines of ADHD's. He's he
Speaker 2: uses a lot of these like big emotions in this
Speaker 2: whole self awareness. When about self awareness, our son is
Speaker 2: very self aware of what he can get are so, So, Mike,
Speaker 2: talk a little bit about kind of when you hear
Speaker 2: parents come to and they go, my gosh, you know,
Speaker 2: I do everything I can. I talk to my kid,
Speaker 2: I do everything I can. What is kind of your
Speaker 2: first reaction when.
Speaker 1: Your strategy, because you have a you gave us great
Speaker 1: advice and I'd love for you to share that with
Speaker 1: the people at home.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: First of all, one of my favorite things about working
Speaker 4: with Duke is talking to him first and then talking
Speaker 4: to the two of you. I feel like I'm in
Speaker 4: like a time portal of like talking to the younger version.
Speaker 3: And the older version. It's like it's the coolest thing
Speaker 3: ever seeing the similarities and like.
Speaker 4: It's just it's such a you guys have such a
Speaker 4: close knit, beautiful family. It's the coolest thing ever. But
Speaker 4: but just just overall, that's that's exactly what it is is.
Speaker 4: You know, we are treating kids, and Jonathan Hyde talks
Speaker 4: about this, the author of The The Anxious Generation, a
Speaker 4: super popular book. We're treating kids as if they are fragile,
Speaker 4: and that's exactly what social media is doing here is
Speaker 4: we have to realize a lot of these parenting gurus
Speaker 4: that are hitting your algorithm are parenting influencers, And what
Speaker 4: are the videos that are going and the reals that
Speaker 4: are going to get the most likes, shares and follows,
Speaker 4: the ones that speak to your parenting hearts and pull
Speaker 4: out your parenting heart strings. You know, the best advice
Speaker 4: we get in life and that helps us in our career,
Speaker 4: our relationships, parenting. The best advice isn't advice that's easy
Speaker 4: to hear, like do you want help or do you
Speaker 4: want to hug? Like do you want the real truth?
Speaker 4: Or are you looking to have your kid in therapy
Speaker 4: for years and years and years and years? Like therapy
Speaker 4: is a trillion dollar industry in this country, and counseling
Speaker 4: and all these different things. You know, we have to
Speaker 4: be brutally honest with parents about screen time and negative
Speaker 4: attention seeking and allowing our kids to experience life and
Speaker 4: experience consequences. You know, we talk about these huge emotions,
Speaker 4: but who's the one seeing, Like, who's the one seeing
Speaker 4: these big emotions? Is it the people at school or
Speaker 4: is it the parents?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: So with us, Mike, as you know, it's interesting, like
Speaker 2: I said that he's right. So Mike. One thing he
Speaker 2: always points out about. We'll tell him something like an interaction, right,
Speaker 2: a conversation we had with Duke where he had big
Speaker 2: emotions and it was exhausting for all of us. And
Speaker 2: then Michael say, but how was he at school that day?
Speaker 2: How was he at school the next day? And We're
Speaker 2: like perfect angel, and he goes okay. And so what
Speaker 2: Mike is basically saying is like, you have to start
Speaker 2: differentiating his behavior at home with the two of you
Speaker 2: who are constantly giving him what he wants based on
Speaker 2: his behavior. As opposed to the outside world. He acts
Speaker 2: very differently because he's like, it's not going to work
Speaker 2: out there. This isn't going to work out in the
Speaker 2: real world, but it works at home.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And sometimes I refer to it as like proximity
Speaker 4: based ADHD, and I've discussed it with both of you before.
Speaker 4: Is every step Duke takes away from you, guys, you
Speaker 4: can basically just add.
Speaker 3: A point to his maturity and his behavior. That's exactly it.
Speaker 4: And everyone associates ADHD with school and studying and grades,
Speaker 4: but it's the home. It's the parents that always get
Speaker 4: the worst of the behaviors. It's not a school based problem.
Speaker 4: It's a home based issue because that black and white,
Speaker 4: very rigid ADHD brain of this is good, this is bad,
Speaker 4: this is fun, this is stupid, has a very hard
Speaker 4: time comprehending this concept of unconditional love. The most you know,
Speaker 4: the most gray area thing there possibly is. So the
Speaker 4: only unconditional relationships they have is mom and dad. So
Speaker 4: in their mind, it's, you know, here is this person
Speaker 4: that I could say basically unspeakable things to. I can
Speaker 4: say no to every single thing they asked me to do,
Speaker 4: and they're still going to tuck me in at night
Speaker 4: and give me the Wi Fi password and do this
Speaker 4: and do that. They have a very hard time comprehending
Speaker 4: unconditional love in an unstructured environment.
Speaker 3: Then they go to school and it's structured.
Speaker 4: It's they know what to expect, but it's also filled
Speaker 4: with conditional relations and chips and they respond really well
Speaker 4: to that.
Speaker 3: And if they can do it at school, they can
Speaker 3: do it at home.
Speaker 1: You once said, you know, it's oftentimes a parenting problem,
Speaker 1: and not that they're neglecting their kids, but that the
Speaker 1: parents aren't coached. Right, So how much of your job
Speaker 1: is coaching the parents? Because it's you know, when parents
Speaker 1: react a certain way, they're putting fuel on the fire, right,
Speaker 1: and they're perpetuating these behaviors and everything that's happening with
Speaker 1: their children. So you know, is it more the parents
Speaker 1: or is it the kid? Like chicken or egg?
Speaker 4: The number one most evidence based treatment for kids and
Speaker 4: teens nineteen years in below the most science, the most
Speaker 4: research that shows the most progress for ADHD and executive
Speaker 4: dysfunction is parent training. There's nothing has more research to
Speaker 4: back it up. It is always parent behavior training, and
Speaker 4: that's where you see the majority of the progress because
Speaker 4: so many parents just get stuck of why won't my
Speaker 4: child just do the task? Why won't they just do
Speaker 4: what I asked them to do. Let's reframe that a
Speaker 4: little bit. Instead of saying why won't they do the task?
Speaker 4: What are they doing instead of the task? Are screens
Speaker 4: available to them? Every day I have a conversation, why
Speaker 4: won't my son do his chores? Why won't he go
Speaker 4: out with friends? Why won't he do his homework? What's
Speaker 4: he doing instead? Oh, he's on his phone. Well, there
Speaker 4: you go, he's going to do that? And then is
Speaker 4: conflict available to them? Are they able to get dopamine
Speaker 4: through conflict, What is the environment happening, what's how can
Speaker 4: how can we best you know, train these individuals. That's
Speaker 4: why I titled my book the Executive Functioning Playbook, because
Speaker 4: parents needed a true playbook on how to best deal
Speaker 4: and best parent these kids, because you can't really go
Speaker 4: off of your parenting instincts when there is this executive dysfunction.
Speaker 1: So if parents read that book, you feel that they'll
Speaker 1: be armed for warfare so to speak.
Speaker 3: Ready to go, Okay, good, So.
Speaker 1: We're going to we're going to read that. We're going
Speaker 1: Julianna going to vacation. Well, he's on a camp. We're
Speaker 1: going to read that then cover to cover, yes, and
Speaker 1: hopefully we're going to come back.
Speaker 2: But I did start reading it and then I agree,
Speaker 2: I think we have to read it together as a couple.
Speaker 2: And then also there's a workbook that goes with it
Speaker 2: as well. Might that you also get the workbook. I
Speaker 2: have the workbook I got on Amazon, and yeah, no,
Speaker 2: it's great because I agree your parents' parent training is
Speaker 2: so essential, which we discovered Mike.
Speaker 1: One of the things that we love to do on
Speaker 1: the on Bill and julian of the podcast is debunk
Speaker 1: a lot of the myths that are on Instagram reels
Speaker 1: and TikTok and all this. And I see so much
Speaker 1: about give your kid. What's that one thing we tried it?
Speaker 1: Oh the herb or whatever that you're.
Speaker 2: Giving saffron doing it too. I'm taking it too.
Speaker 1: Oh how important is diet and and all these supplements
Speaker 1: and detox this and heavy metals that and blah blah.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, I don't my head spins because everyone
Speaker 1: is an expert on the internet.
Speaker 4: You got you got that right, so die, It's important
Speaker 4: for everybody's Like you want to live your to your
Speaker 4: optimal stage of development in life. Diet is very very
Speaker 4: important process. Foods are going to negatively impact everyone. But
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, ADHD is brain based.
Speaker 4: ADHD is something is genetic. You are most often born
Speaker 4: with it. There's a lot of talk about the elimination
Speaker 4: diet and all these different things. There's very very little research,
Speaker 4: like real, true, peer reviewed research to back up any
Speaker 4: of these supplements or elimination or anything like that. At
Speaker 4: the end of the day, executive function is strengthened through
Speaker 4: varied experiences and interpersonal relationships. There is nothing arc ADHD
Speaker 4: kids and teens more than doing different things every single day,
Speaker 4: going outside and playing in nature, exercise and having real
Speaker 4: face to face experiences. It's not a coincidence that we're
Speaker 4: seeing all that we're seeing ADHD diagnoses skyrocketing. We're in
Speaker 4: the middle of this horrible youth mental health crisis. We
Speaker 4: just saw Meta and everyone on trial. We just saw
Speaker 4: all these different things, you know, in this era of screens,
Speaker 4: when you know the real issue with screens is they
Speaker 4: keep kids indoors. You know, back in the day, you
Speaker 4: used to come home from school, get on your bike
Speaker 4: and you know, be home by dinner time and make
Speaker 4: it there without a GPS and just you know, be
Speaker 4: home when the street lights come on and figure it out.
Speaker 4: No no air tag in your shoe, no life three sixty,
Speaker 4: none of those things is figure it out and come home.
Speaker 4: And we would just we were bored a lot. And
Speaker 4: what do you do when your board? We use our
Speaker 4: imagination what's a fancy term for your imagination? Executive functions,
Speaker 4: the ability to make mental movies and imagine things and
Speaker 4: work towards those images. So back in the day, kids played,
Speaker 4: they went outside, They had tons of social interactions every day,
Speaker 4: they did things they didn't want to do it.
Speaker 3: It's those are the things that are going to build.
Speaker 4: Grit and resilience and self regulation and self soothing. So like,
Speaker 4: people are always looking for that quick fix, and you
Speaker 4: can't blame them.
Speaker 3: We live in an instant gratification society now.
Speaker 1: So our son eating a bowl of cinnamon Toa's crunch
Speaker 1: every night before it goes to bed is okay, There's.
Speaker 3: There's other options. I would I would prefer their mama
Speaker 3: the pandy please.
Speaker 1: Yes, wow, I love your way to name that. Parents
Speaker 1: want to be their kid's best friend, right well, and
Speaker 1: I think that's a problem. Perfect They want to be
Speaker 1: the cool parents. Yes, they want to be the you know,
Speaker 1: like I'm I'm cool, right yeah.
Speaker 3: And that's what social media is doing.
Speaker 4: It's the the immense pressure on parents from all these
Speaker 4: parenting gurus. It's not normal to pick up your phone
Speaker 4: twenty times a day and every time you open Instagram
Speaker 4: it's another parenting person yelling at you about this concept of.
Speaker 3: The perfect parent.
Speaker 4: You know, parenting is always has always been that phenomenon
Speaker 4: of the more work you put in, it actually gets
Speaker 4: kind of kind of harder. It's always that thing like like,
Speaker 4: let's talk about this right now, both of you. You know,
Speaker 4: very successful, you uh many many goals reached. You've accomplished
Speaker 4: many goals and done many great things. Parenting's probably number
Speaker 4: one on the list in terms of hardest things you've
Speaker 4: ever done.
Speaker 1: Correct, not even a question there you go.
Speaker 4: So, of all the things you've done, all the different
Speaker 4: jars you've reached out to, parenting is the number one
Speaker 4: thing that has been the most difficult thing. And that's
Speaker 4: what it is. So it's not about you know who
Speaker 4: you are, whatever it is. Raising a human being is
Speaker 4: an imperfect science. And the more we push this concept
Speaker 4: of the perfect parent on parents, we're creating parenting burnout.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is parenting burnout.
Speaker 4: The number one tip doctor Russell Barkley talks about this
Speaker 4: everything is use ninety percent less language. Language makes dysregulation worse.
Speaker 4: The more you talk, expect bigger behaviors.
Speaker 3: Talking, talking, talking.
Speaker 4: We all watched a little too much Full House growing
Speaker 4: up with all those heart to hearts with Bob Saggett
Speaker 4: on the end of the bed and all the talking
Speaker 4: and the talking.
Speaker 3: That's not going to work with today's generation. The talking.
Speaker 3: The examples of this that all of that. I had
Speaker 3: a video I was.
Speaker 4: Very powerful a couple of months ago about hey, it's
Speaker 4: time we bring back because I said so like our
Speaker 4: parents said it, we accepted it, we moved on. Some
Speaker 4: things don't need an explanation, you know, Dad said it earlier.
Speaker 4: Everyone's trying to be their kid's best friend now, and
Speaker 4: that's because of all the parenting pressures. And you see
Speaker 4: videos of inside people's homes and all these different things.
Speaker 4: So and parents are being taught that all of these
Speaker 4: emotions are their responsibility. If my kids says I don't
Speaker 4: like you, or gets angry or gets upset or gets anxious,
Speaker 4: it's my responsibility to fix those emotions. And when you
Speaker 4: make it your responsibility to ease your kid's emotions, how
Speaker 4: are they ever going to learn to do that on
Speaker 4: their own? You know, the rule of all of parenting is,
Speaker 4: let's give this kid the skills because eventually I'm not
Speaker 4: going to be there to help them, and we forget.
Speaker 3: That sometimes that's the biggest thing.
Speaker 4: So, so we need to realize, you know, not everything
Speaker 4: needs an explanation. Not everything needs all these words words words.
Speaker 2: So less words. Mike really, Mike really taught Bill and
Speaker 2: I that that. I think that especially Bill, because Bill
Speaker 2: is such an amazing dad. He's like Duke is like,
Speaker 2: loves him so much. He's just the greatest dad to Duke.
Speaker 2: And so what Duke does is when Duke wants something,
Speaker 2: he goes to Bill. But it doesn't just like hey,
Speaker 2: It's not like hey, Dad, I would like this new
Speaker 2: Pokemon card. It's very like, Oh, I'm having the worst
Speaker 2: day I buy life. What's wrong, Duke? Oh my god, Dad,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm just down. Oh my god, Oh
Speaker 2: my god. How can I save you? Let me rescue
Speaker 2: Oh my god? What could I do?
Speaker 1: Duke?
Speaker 2: Let's talk about if I just had a Pokemon card,
Speaker 2: I'd feel so much better. Okay, Duke, That's all it
Speaker 2: takes is a Pokemon card. I'll give you the Pokemon card.
Speaker 2: It's like this continuous you know, but it comes from
Speaker 2: blas Like. It's not just Duke asking us.
Speaker 4: His self awareness. His self awareness is off the chart,
Speaker 4: off the charts.
Speaker 2: Meaning he has learned how to push push our buttons,
Speaker 2: how to create this huge dramatic thing to get it,
Speaker 2: and he tricks us so much of the time because
Speaker 2: at the end we go, oh my god, we just got.
Speaker 1: He just played us, We just got.
Speaker 2: He did all of that and made it like this
Speaker 2: whole emotional thing that and really at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, he was just trying to get from A
Speaker 2: to B. He was just trying to get us to
Speaker 2: agree to something that we had not agree to it.
Speaker 1: He's able to play chess. We're playing checkers. He's playing chess.
Speaker 2: Yes, And so it's kind of fascinating. So what Mike
Speaker 2: always tells us, you guys, and if your kids like
Speaker 2: this too, and this is resonating. He says, what we
Speaker 2: do and I do this better than Bill because we
Speaker 2: know we've talked about this right with Mike and and
Speaker 2: and I've tried to get even better at this. But
Speaker 2: it's like less words. Mike is so right, Like I
Speaker 2: am very much like a less words person in life, Like, oh,
Speaker 2: I know I talk.
Speaker 1: A lot on this pod, said no one ever this
Speaker 1: podcast literally so shy.
Speaker 2: I never speak. I'm very much like I'm like my parents,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm very much no Triana, no like just no,
Speaker 2: I'm like that with Duke, like Ducal come in, I'm like, no, Duke,
Speaker 2: not getting it. Sorry, And he gets and gets all
Speaker 2: mad with Bill. It's like, and I go, Bill, why
Speaker 2: are you? Why are you using all these words? Stop
Speaker 2: talking to him for an hour about this. He's just
Speaker 2: playing you and trying to get what he wants. No,
Speaker 2: but I think he's really upset, right, Mike, Like that's
Speaker 2: where parents their heart starts, like they're like, what if
Speaker 2: my kid is actually really upset and something's going on,
Speaker 2: and then you feel like you're being cold to them.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, right, that will save this for the next episode.
Speaker 2: I'm just asking.
Speaker 4: I want to know this young man is an absolute genius.
Speaker 4: That's exactly what it is he has. He has the
Speaker 4: gift of gab, the gift of charm. He has both.
Speaker 4: He has the good positive qualities of both of you
Speaker 4: in a thirteen year old's body.
Speaker 3: That's exactly what it is.
Speaker 4: Like he lights up a room, he knows exactly what
Speaker 4: it is, he knows exactly what he's doing, and everything
Speaker 4: is about attention and an audience. He knows to make
Speaker 4: it seem like he wants a material good or a
Speaker 4: thing or an event, but it's looking for the audience.
Speaker 4: It's looking for that attention. So whether it's sympathy seeking
Speaker 4: or negative attention seeking or whatever, it may be it's
Speaker 4: to just have an audience to have those things there,
Speaker 4: like that old saying of if a tree falls in
Speaker 4: the woods and no one's around to hear, it doesn't
Speaker 4: make a sound. If mom and dad aren't in the
Speaker 4: same room, is there a behavior? And that's exactly it.
Speaker 4: So like when you see this young man going to
Speaker 4: all these different places, and parents need to think about
Speaker 4: this too.
Speaker 3: Like so many.
Speaker 4: Parents will call the school and describe their kid at home,
Speaker 4: and the school's like, are we.
Speaker 3: Talking about the same kid here? Like he's an angel here?
Speaker 3: What are you talking about?
Speaker 4: And then the parents describe at home and it's like
Speaker 4: really really scary things because these kids know that if
Speaker 4: it stays a secret of the home and there's no coach, teacher,
Speaker 4: social worker, taekwondo master, whatever it may be to hold
Speaker 4: them accountable and talk them about it, then they're just
Speaker 4: going to keep getting away with it because it works.
Speaker 4: It's just to do what works, and if getting negative,
Speaker 4: negative attention works, they're going to do it. It's the
Speaker 4: same thing as opening a cupboard and seeing a treat
Speaker 4: and needing it.
Speaker 3: They do what works, and it works.
Speaker 1: Mike, thank you so much for your time. This is great.
Speaker 1: We're going to have you in person. If people want
Speaker 1: to get your book, where can they go get your book?
Speaker 3: So the book is available everywhere.
Speaker 4: You can find it on Amazon, the Executive Functioning Playbook,
Speaker 4: and the Executive Functioning Playbook and Action Barnes and Nobles, Amazon,
Speaker 4: wherever books are sold.
Speaker 2: Yeah, check it out. And then also follow him on
Speaker 2: Instagram brow now adhd. That's how I found him on
Speaker 2: Instagram and he's amazing and you post videos all the
Speaker 2: time better. Yeah, And then of course you can reach
Speaker 2: out to him, DM him or go on his website.
Speaker 2: And you can.
Speaker 1: Also if we want him busy but not too busy
Speaker 1: session book a.
Speaker 2: Session for yourself. I have recommended my friends to him.
Speaker 2: We do zoom.
Speaker 1: We don't forget about us, Mike when.
Speaker 2: You're we do zooms. We do zooms with him and
Speaker 2: it's very very effective. Sometimes we break down the zoom.
Speaker 2: It'll be like forty five minutes Duke will do and
Speaker 2: then fifteen minutes us at the end, or thirty minutes,
Speaker 2: thirty minutes.
Speaker 1: Which we're going to do more parent coaching.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, we need more parent coaching.
Speaker 4: We are Yeah, you guys need to do more and
Speaker 4: more of these parenting episodes, like the two of you
Speaker 4: are like obviously like parenting is a stressful thing, but
Speaker 4: the two of you are just such incredible parents. The
Speaker 4: more that you two talk about your parenting experiences, I
Speaker 4: think I think the two of you doing more parenting
Speaker 4: episodes is what's going to cure this parenting burnout.
Speaker 1: Christ It's a work in progress. Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2: We're honest about it. We're not acting like we know
Speaker 2: what we're doing. So Mike, you're the best. Thank you,
Speaker 2: appreciate it.
Speaker 1: We'll see in Chicago this fall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see you soon.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Wait, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you, thank you, Mike.
Speaker 2: Thanks Mike. Thanks everyone,