1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: Everybody. It's me Josh and for this week's s Y 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: s K Selex, I've chosen our episode on Operation Mincemeat 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: from February two thousand sixteen. It's a really great example 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: of English drollness pulling through for the rest of the 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: world is featuring Ian Fleming or Ian Fleming, depending on 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: your preference, and roll Dahl. It's just a Bonker's history 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: episode all around, so I hope you enjoy it. Welcome 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 1: to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, 9 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles 10 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: w Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry Rowland. This is Stuff you 11 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: Should Know. Chuck, Yo, I'm thirty nine years old and 12 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: I still can't say my own name correctly because in 13 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: my stupid thick tongue. Oh you're gonna be forty crazy. Yeah, 14 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: he used to make fun of me, and now you're old. Well, 15 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: you're still older than me. I know what I can 16 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: do about that. It's cool though. Yeah, you're aging very well. Yeah, no, 17 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: you're aging really well. What you mean the teeth falling out, 18 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: the weight gain and the gray beard. I still say 19 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: you're aging very well. I appreciate it. But let's get 20 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: your take off your hat. I still got good hair booms. 21 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: Look at that got hat head now beautiful? Okayle think 22 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: I'm bald? Some people do, like you're always wearing that hat. 23 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 1: Why do you why? I don't know suspicious people. Yeah, 24 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: like the drummer for the Chili Peppers, Anthony Keytis Flee, Nope, 25 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: the guy from Jane's Addiction, Nope, I don't know them, 26 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: Not John for Shaunty, Chad Smith, the guy that looks 27 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: like Will Ferrell. He's always Ferrell. He's always got that 28 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: hat on backwards and um he's bald. Yeah, totally like 29 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: Brett Um. Michael's bald. Remember he always wears a do rag. 30 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: Super bald. So I get why people are suspicious. If 31 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: you're a public figure that has a patented hat piece, 32 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: then it's probably because you're bald, but not in my case. 33 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: What a weird way to start the show, especially this show, 34 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: Operation mincemeat Yep, which is a ghoulish gallows humor awesomely 35 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: World War two British name for this this operation. Yeah, 36 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 1: this will live alongside our our Nazi spies and Invading 37 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: Florida podcast and the history Girls covered this this very 38 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: topic as well. Yeah, man, there's nothing I love more 39 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: than little known history. This is this is it. But 40 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: this is great little known history. And this shouldn't be 41 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: middle known because it was after the Trojan War, maybe 42 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: the largest and most successful military deception plan in history. Well, 43 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: there was also have you seen that documentary Ghost Army 44 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: about Operation Fortitude. No, they used a bunch of blow 45 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: up tanks and planes, like inflatable tanks and planes to 46 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: make it look like there's a whole Allied division over here, 47 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: so that we could invade Normandy More He's it's like 48 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: a Looney Tunes cartoon. Awesome. But yes, this ranks up 49 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: there with literally with the Trojan Horses. It's that ingenious 50 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: and that wonderful. But so let's set the stage right. 51 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: So in early nine UM, the war was very much undecided. 52 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: It could have been anybody's like your. Europe was under 53 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,839 Speaker 1: the control of Hitler, huge amounts of Europe. They called 54 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: it Fortress Europe because he the Nazis were just had 55 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: just overrun the place, right dug in and um, the 56 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: the Allies knew that they needed to get into Europe 57 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: to topple Hitler or else like they weren't going to 58 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: win the war, so um Churchill suggested attacking Europe's underbelly, 59 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: which is maybe Italy, Greece. He called it the underbelly, 60 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: not very flattering, but he called it Europe's underbelly. So everybody, 61 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: the Allies, the Greeks, the Nazis, the Japanese, um, the 62 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: people uh in Hawaii. Everybody knew, yeah, they weren't American 63 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: quite yet. Everybody knew that the Allies were gonna attack 64 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 1: somewhere in that area. Yeah, come up through the Mediterranean. 65 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: Even Hitler feared this the most, but was key right, 66 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: And and I mean everybody knew the Allies were coming, 67 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: and they were going to come there. But this, this 68 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: land mass, this area of land and see is large 69 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: enough that you can't just be like, oh, they're coming 70 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: down there. We got it covered, cover it all. You 71 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 1: need to know kind of specifically where they were covering. 72 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: And there were just a few places where they could 73 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: have come. One was Greece, that was where Hitler always suspected. 74 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: One was Sardinia, right, and then another was Sicily. And 75 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: in nine I think January, the Allied powers met in 76 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: French Morocco and held um a conference, the CASA Blanket Conference, 77 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: very sexy naming. Yeah, it really was. And um, they said, okay, 78 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: we're going to invade Sicily this July. We're gonna call 79 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: it Operation Husky. Now we have to do everything we 80 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: can to not let the Nazis know that that's where 81 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: we're going. And that actually hatched eventually what's called Operation Mincemeat. Yeah, 82 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: you know what. The studying this stuff and I'm not 83 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: a big war buff um, although I'm getting more so, 84 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: but reading up on this stuff, like the old wars 85 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:35,239 Speaker 1: are so much like the board game risk that it's startling. Yeah. 86 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: It's literally when you look at the stuff, it's like 87 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: moving troops to where you think people are going to 88 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: attack you and rolling the dice a bit and if 89 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: you're right, then great, If not, you're screwed very much though, 90 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: which is why it's such a huge shift that we're 91 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: seeing now in moving to unconventional warfare, because that's scary stuff. Yeah. 92 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: I think pretty much all war is scary. Yeah. Well, 93 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: of course I'm not saying like Normandy was a gig 94 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: walk or anything, because they knew what there was going on. Man, 95 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: I watched Saving Private Ryan again the other day. God, 96 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: it's crazy. That thing's almost a snuff film. It's not 97 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: as bad as We Were Soldiers, which is a snuff film, 98 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,239 Speaker 1: but it's I never saw that one gie, Yeah, dude, 99 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: it's it's the most graphically violent mainstream movie ever made. Yes, yeah, 100 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: Like there's a part where there's there they have a shot, 101 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: a camera shot over this guy's shoulder, right, so his 102 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: helmets in the in the near foreground, and that guy 103 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: takes a hit to the head and like blood spray 104 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: covers the camera lens for the next like a little 105 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 1: while his brains just cover the camera. It's disgusting. Did 106 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: you like Saving Private Ran again? Though? Yeah, it's a 107 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: great movie, but it is like really like violent. That's 108 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: another thing about getting older is that stuff affects you 109 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 1: more and more. The more you come to terms with 110 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: your own mortality, the more valuable life becomes. The more 111 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: valuable even a care after in a movie's life becomes 112 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? That stuff gets to agreed, 113 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: It's called growing up, my friend, I'm becoming human, isn't 114 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: it grows? Alright? So on September twenty nine, ninety nine, Uh, 115 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: there was a director of British Naval Intelligence name Admiral 116 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: John Godfrey, and he distributed something called the Trout Memo, 117 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: and um, it was written by his assistant Lieutenant Commander 118 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: Ian Fleming. Familiar name, Yeah, creator of James Bond. That's right, 119 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: the guy. And uh, I think most people know that 120 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: he served at this point. Yeah, but um, if you didn't, 121 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: that's a nice little factoid for you. So he he 122 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,239 Speaker 1: wrote the Trout Memo and they called it the Trout 123 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: memo memo because they pointed out in the intro that 124 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: this that the trout fisherman fishes very patiently, but he 125 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: changes venue frequently and he changes his bait very frequently too, 126 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: And so they wanted to they're charged with deception. They 127 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: wanted to come up with all these different ideas, all 128 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: this different bait and venue changes that they could come 129 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: up with. Yeah, and this was a time too. We 130 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: should point out that, UM, spying, spying is always vital, 131 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: but man, in World War Two, it was going on 132 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: all over the place in a huge, huge part of 133 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: the war. So, um, we need to do one on 134 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: the Enigma machine. By the way, at some point we do, 135 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: because that's one of the unsung heroes in this operation. Absolutely. Um, alright, 136 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: so with the trout memo, Ian Fleming wrote, uh well, 137 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: co authored fifty one different operations suggestions, and number twenty 138 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: eight was one called a suggestion parentheses not a very 139 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: nice one. The following suggestion is used in a book 140 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: by Basil Thompson. I'm so pleased that you said, Basil 141 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: in staid a Basil Uh In fact, that was seven novel, 142 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: The mill Milliner's Hat Mystery. And he was actually a 143 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: World War One spy. Oh really yeah? So he was 144 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: it a spy writer that Ian Fleming the reader of 145 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: James Bond Doug Crazy. So that's where this originate. So uh, 146 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: here's here, that's right. The following suggestion is used in 147 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: a book by Basil Thompson Colin a corpse dressed as 148 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: an airman with dispatches in his pockets could be dropped 149 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: on the coast, supposedly from a parachute that had failed. 150 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: I understand there is no difficulty in obtaining corpses at 151 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: the Naval hospital, but of course it would have to 152 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: be a fresh one. So the idea is, let's get 153 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: a dead person, let's dress him up like a soldier, 154 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: give him some sensitive documents that leak this invasion fraudulent, fraudulent, 155 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: very important, that leak the invasion of Greece, which is 156 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: not really happening, and they're gonna mount up troops there 157 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: and we'll actually go in secily. They're gonna find this body. 158 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: They're gonna think they've stumbled upon this great happy accident 159 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: and we're going to fool him. So yeah, that was 160 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: the That was the whole idea. That was the general 161 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: basis of it. And Churchill loved the idea because apparent 162 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: he liked what he called corkscrew thinkers, because he knew 163 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: Hitler thought in a straight line. Yes, and by corkscrew thinkers, 164 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: I think that would be our equivalent of outside the box. Yeah. Yeah. 165 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: Churchill was like, this is great. I love Churchill. Let's 166 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: drink some scotch and do it. Yeah, let's look like 167 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: a bulldog. So um, the the the well. The idea 168 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,319 Speaker 1: was roughly outlined by Ian Fleming and then the the 169 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: Churchill's corkscrew thinkers, the XX Committee, led by um you 170 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: and Montague and um Chumley. Yeah, which is his name 171 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: is not spelled chumbley? No, how's it spelled? Are you 172 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: ready for this? Charles C. H O l m O 173 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 1: n d e l e y pronounced Chumley. Yeah. And 174 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: apparently when he met people he would say, uh, Lieutenant 175 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: Charles Chumley c h O l m O n d 176 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 1: e l e y. He would spell it out, what 177 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: do you really? Yeah? Are you making fun of me? 178 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: Or is there for real? No? No, no. He was 179 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: a very quirky guy, and that's how he described himself 180 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: as toothpaste, as if it had been squeezed from the tube, 181 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: like he self described. He would go hunting with a 182 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: revolver like bird hunting. Is a weird guy. I actually 183 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: watched a quickie BuzzFeed video on this and they pronounced 184 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: it Charles Charlomondley. Did they really? Yeah, I'm glad we 185 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: did our research exactly, shout out with the BuzzFeed. So 186 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: you and Montague right, Yeah, the other guy. He is 187 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: noteworthy in a number of ways to apparently it's just 188 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: the greatest guy ever, most interesting man on the planet. 189 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: Um And he actually wrote the book, the first book 190 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: on Operation Mincemeat, because he was one of the people 191 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: who came up with this and implemented it. The man 192 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: who was never there, the man who never was got 193 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: right so became a movie too, Yeah, of the same name, 194 00:11:55,520 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: starring Montgomery Cliff, I believe, no starring Cliff with Cliff 195 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: Cliff web but not Montgomery Cliff. Those two are virtually 196 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: interchangeable there. So, um what you and Montague was already 197 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: notable because at school he and his brother had created 198 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:20,199 Speaker 1: the rules for um ping pong. No way, I did 199 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 1: not know that, among other things. And his brother equally interesting, 200 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: equally um rambunctious went on to become a spy for 201 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: the Soviets. Yes, so he turned yes against England, Yes 202 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: against everybody except for the Soviets. Well, Montague was uh, 203 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: he was formerly a barrister, an attorney, and um, this 204 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: is why he actually did not go serve on a ship. Um. 205 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: And the other guy, Chumley, never flew a plane. One 206 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,239 Speaker 1: was air Force, one was a navy. Uh. And apparently 207 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: Montague was as an attorney, was very good at just 208 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: seeing all the angles. So they say, you, sir, are 209 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: perfect for this job. Ask all right, Chuck. So we 210 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: have the rough outline that Ian Fleming came up with 211 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: the XX committee led by you and Montague and Charles Chumley. 212 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: The part of m I five, I believe. Okay, Um 213 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: said we're going to take this particular idea and really 214 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 1: run with it, Um, And like you said, they were 215 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: going to, Well, the first thing they did was start 216 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: setting about creating a backstory. Yeah. Well they had three months, 217 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: so that the clock is chicking at this point. Yeah, 218 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: because here's the thing. They set the invasion right in January, 219 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: and they set the invasion for July. Now, you needed 220 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: enough time to um plant this, this corpse, this fake 221 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: dead courier um in the Nazi hands and give the 222 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: with enough time so that the Nazis could digest it, 223 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: analyze it, decided it was truthful, and then react the 224 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: way you wanted them to, which meant that they had 225 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: no later than May or else this plan was out 226 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: the window. Yeah, you wanted them. The ultimate goal was 227 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: to have the Nazis put their troops in the wrong place, 228 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: and that takes time, right, So they looked around and 229 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: they decided that the best place to carry out this 230 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: operation was Spain, and Spain during World War Two was 231 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: allegedly ostensibly neutral, but they had a lot of access, sympathies, 232 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: a lot of connections to Nazi Germany, and there was 233 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: a particular Nazi agent, a spy working in a port 234 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: called Um Whoever, Whoever, La Whoever La right, Um, And 235 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: his name was Adolf Klass. And Adolph Klaus was known 236 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: to be very methodical, pretty brutal, brutal and ruthless, extremely gullible. Yeah, 237 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: he was a straight line thinker. He was hitler. He 238 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: wasn't one that could think outside the box and think, 239 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: maybe this is an elaborate hoax that that guy didn't 240 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: even own a real corkscrew, you know, like they targeted 241 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: this guy cut the top off of wine bottles. Yeah, 242 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: they specifically targeted, which is amazing. So they wanted this guy, 243 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: who was fairly gullible but also known as like a 244 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: very respected Nazi agent in Spain, um to be the 245 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: one who came up with this corpse and could ever 246 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: so before they ever had any corps or could have 247 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: or anything like that, Montague and Um and Chumbley start 248 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: setting about creating a backstory, and they created this guy 249 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: named Major Um Martin, William Martin, that's right. And they 250 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: created Major William Martin, and they created this whole persona. 251 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: And this wasn't the first time they've done it, that 252 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: they had actually they had um chops with this kind 253 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: of stuff. So they had created a fake spine network 254 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: that made Nazi Germany think that they had a whole 255 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: double double agent network in the UK. And all of 256 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: them were fictitious, not real people that you and Montague 257 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: and Charles Chumley had created these fake personas and it 258 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: fed the Nazis misinformation through these people that didn't really exist. 259 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: So they took that that understanding and that thinking of 260 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: what it takes to create a fake persona, and they 261 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: said about creating one for Major William Martin. Yeah, and um, 262 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: if you there's a great BBC documentary on this, and 263 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: they interview a lot of the players, um, including a 264 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: lot of the women who worked at m I five 265 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: in the office, and they were all just so delighted 266 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: that they all described this as like the most exciting 267 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: adventure they'd ever had. I'm sure it was like something 268 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: out of a spine novel and they were living it right, 269 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: And so they all had great fun creating these characters, 270 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: that these made up people. Um, they wanted to give 271 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: him a fiance because the idea is that they find 272 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 1: this body with what not only these documents in a briefcase, 273 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: the important documents. But to make it believable, he had 274 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: to have believable what they called pocket litter or wallet litter, 275 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: which is if you find any person on the street 276 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:18,479 Speaker 1: asked him to open their wallet, you're gonna be able 277 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: to tell a lot about them. So just stuff to 278 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 1: legitimize it. So they said, let's give him a fiance, 279 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: and all the women in the office wanted to be 280 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: the fiance, so they all submitted photographs. They picked this one, 281 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: lady Jean Leslie. Uh, secretary, Okay, that's the lady on 282 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: the beach. Yes, pickture of her in a bathing suit 283 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: on the beach. So this was going to be planted 284 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 1: on his body. Uh. They all wanted to write the 285 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: love letters back and forth, but they picked a woman 286 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: named Hester Leggert, the head secretary of m I five, 287 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: and she wrote even though she was a spinster, she 288 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 1: wrote all these like heartfelt love letters. The first couple 289 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: of drafts were really dirty, and they were like, you 290 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: gott to tone this down a little, like is that 291 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: what you think happens in a relationships? Like, no, not me, lady. 292 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: So everyone's really excited in the office. Um Chumley is 293 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: wearing what would eventually be the uniform of Martin every 294 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: Day to give it that worn in look. Monte Hue 295 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: actually ended up having an affair with the secretary who 296 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: gave him the photo as the fiance. They had a 297 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 1: real life affair as Bill and Pam. Pam is the 298 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: made up fiance. It got a little weird that it 299 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: is a little weird, like they wrote each other love letters, 300 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: had a real life affair calling each other Bill and Pam. 301 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: So there was some like strange role playing going on. 302 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: I'm sure he was married at the time. His family 303 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: had been shipped to America, so he was not doing 304 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: the right thing there he was he was allows in 305 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: that department. Well you know also um Roll Dahl, the 306 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: guy who wrote James and the Giant Peach and Charlie Factory. 307 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: He was a spy for the British. He was in 308 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: the British military and his whole job was to basically 309 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: bed um the wives of American officials here in Washington. 310 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: Really yeah, did he do so? Oh? Yeah? Oh wow? 311 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: Oh he made his way through Washington society apparently with 312 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: great zeal. Alright, so they're cooking up this backstory. Uh, 313 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: they get other great things for the wallet litter like uh, 314 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: theater ticket stubs and an overdraft letter from his bank 315 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 1: and just these things that make it seem like super realistic. 316 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: And what else they I think they gave him a 317 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: st Christopher Metal. Maybe they wanted to strongly imply that 318 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: he was Roman Catholic and that will come up, uh 319 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: very it will become very important in a minute, right, 320 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: very much. So they've got this backstory and apparently like this. 321 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: They were working feverishly on this stuff, having the weirdo affair, 322 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: wearing the uniform, all that stuff before they'd even gotten 323 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: final approval, just because they didn't want to stop work 324 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: and then have to pick it up feverishly. They wanted 325 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: this to to keep going. So they finally got final 326 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: approval from Admiral God for um to carry out this 327 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 1: thing for real. And when they got final approval, they said, okay, 328 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: we need a body and they figured no problem they 329 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: were looking at first they needed somebody who um, who 330 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: had relatives that didn't care what happened to the body 331 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: after death and could keep their mouth shut. Um. They 332 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: needed a body that was of military age, didn't have 333 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: any signs of visible trauma um right um, and that 334 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 1: that preferably they would have died of pneumonia. And the 335 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: reason that they wanted him to die of pneumonia is 336 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: because they were going to make it look like this 337 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: guy had been in a plane crash. Um, but it 338 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: survived the plane crash, but it drowned at sea. And 339 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: if he had pneumonia, then his fluids would be filled 340 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: with long so that when the Spanish conducted an autopsy 341 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: on them. Yeah, so that when the Spanish conducted their autopsy, 342 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: they'd be like, this is the most amazing thing I've 343 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,679 Speaker 1: ever seen. I've never seen fluid filled with lungs, but 344 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: that's how much fluid there is. The problem is is 345 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: they didn't get their hands on a guy with pneumonia, 346 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: and they didn't even know exactly where to get a 347 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: person at first. It wasn't until they turned the guy 348 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: who ran the more g at St. Pancras Hospital, which 349 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: is the worst hospital name of all time. Um, they 350 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: turned him and got him to assist them that they 351 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: finally got their hands on a body. Yeah. His name 352 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: was sir uh, Sir Bentley Purchase, which is a great name, 353 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: and uh it was. He was a corner of the 354 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: largest mortuary at St. Pancras terrible and he had apparently 355 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: a wicked sense of humor. It was pretty complicated to 356 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: give directions to his office. So when he gave Montyue 357 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: the directions, he said, or he could just get run 358 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: over by a bus. Nice man. The British during wartime 359 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: where they're having a sense of humor was wonderful. So 360 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: they got Bentley purchased and he said, I've got a dude. 361 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 1: Um his name is h Glenn Door Michael. Yeah, that 362 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: is not how that's spelled either. No, it is g 363 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: l y n d w r super Welsh. Yeah, he 364 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: was a Welshman born in nineteen o nine. He was 365 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: the son of a coal miner. His father killed himself 366 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: by stabbing himself in the throat. I hadn't read that 367 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 1: and it didn't say like slit your throat, said he 368 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: stabbed himself in the throat, which is weird and sad. 369 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: So his dad died when he was a teenager. Mother 370 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: died when he was thirty. Uh, alcoholic had a rough 371 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: go because of the depression and was basically basically killed 372 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: himself by ingesting rat poison. So that is not necessarily resolved. 373 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: What whether it was suicide yeah, so they they they 374 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: Bentley Purchased wrote down that he, um, he killed himself. Yeah, 375 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: it was ruled a suicide. Okay, But the way that 376 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: he ate the rat poison, it was on a crust 377 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: of bread, so he was hungry, they wondered, So he 378 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: he may have been so death. The touoth that he 379 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: ate a crust of bread that he found in an 380 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: abandoned warehouse, and it was smeared with rat poison, and 381 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: that's what he died of. But they found him in 382 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: this cold January night in nineteen forty three, Um, in 383 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: this abandoned warehouse in London, and um, he had just 384 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: eaten some rat poison. But he survived for two more days. 385 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: And so Bentley Purchased got his hands on him and said, 386 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: I think I found your guy. Dudes, Yeah, and they did. Um. 387 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: There were some issues, of one of which is they 388 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: needed a photo of the guy for an I d 389 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: He didn't have any photos. Oh, and every time they 390 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: took a picture of the dead guy's face, they were like, 391 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,239 Speaker 1: he looks like a dead guy. Yeah really, So they 392 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: scoured You can see your fingers holding his eyes up. 393 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: So they scoured London looking for a look alike and 394 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: eventually found a guy at a fellow intelligence officer who 395 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 1: looked just like him. They used his face. Aw, it's 396 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: all coming together, Yes it is. I'm sure they were like, Wow, 397 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: Providence is really smiling on this. And if you're feeling 398 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: bad for glennd Or just hang tight. Yeah, I still 399 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: think you can feel bad for Glenn do or talk 400 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: about a rough life man? Sheez? Do you remember that 401 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,199 Speaker 1: one Saturday Night Live where Robert Duval was like super 402 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 1: special guest. It wasn't even hosting or mentioned. He just 403 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: showed up on this game show called Who's More Grizzled? 404 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 1: And he talks about like it was him and Garth Brooks. 405 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: How do I miss that? And um he talks about 406 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: how when one Cold Winners, his wife died and he 407 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: had to keep her out in the barn until the 408 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 1: ground thaw so we can bury her out back. What. Yeah, 409 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: it was just weird like that. It wasn't even really funny. 410 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: It was more just like, wow, that really is hard. 411 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: But the whole game show was Who's more grizzled anyone? 412 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,199 Speaker 1: Of course, because it's Robert Duval. Yeah, he's more grizzled 413 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: than Garth Brooks. Even even Yeah, yeah, poor grubber Guard, 414 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: poor Garth Brooks, what are you talking about. I'm talking 415 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,199 Speaker 1: about the Chris Gaines thing. He chose to do it. 416 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 1: He's a wealthy man in Yeah, I don't feel too 417 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: bad for him, but I think that was evidence that 418 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: he was surrounded by yes men at the time. That 419 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: was a weird thing though. Yeah, he faked a soul 420 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: patch that wasn't even real. No, I mean, even if 421 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: it was real, it was part of his character. It's 422 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: like I thought you meant it was sharpie. Maybe, Okay, 423 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: the hair was definitely colored with sharpie. All right, So 424 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: where where are we here? We've got a body. We 425 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,399 Speaker 1: finally got the photograph of him, yeah, which is that's amazing. 426 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 1: I didn't know that part. And um, there's another thing 427 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: we found this awesome. A military analysis of it that 428 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: was kind of cool. Somebody wrote a military analysis of this. 429 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,360 Speaker 1: I don't remember who, so I can't come a shout out, 430 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: but we'll put it on our podcast page. But they 431 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: point out that one of the reasons this was so 432 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: successful this operation was one these guys at Excess commit 433 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: x X committee just had free run to break the law. 434 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 1: Um bend morality do all sorts of stuff. Um, they 435 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,439 Speaker 1: just were able to go do their thing. But the 436 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: other thing was is that they really kept this lid 437 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: on this stuff and it was all disseminated on a 438 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: need to know basis. So when they had this guy, 439 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: they had him, they had, they got glinder, kept him 440 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: on ice for three months as they finished his backstory. 441 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: They're running up against like go time, and then I 442 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 1: think in um, February or March April maybe I'm not 443 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 1: sure the date. Do you know that what happened when 444 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: they finally carried out Operation Minced Meat. Let's just say spring, 445 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: because I know that they kept him on ice for 446 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: a few months. Yeah. And they so they're up to 447 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: the point where the d comp is about to give 448 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: away that this guy didn't just recently die. Yeah, and 449 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: that was a big fear that the Spanish uh corners 450 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: would be able to tell to which will come up 451 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: in a minute, Okay, And um, they're also getting to 452 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: the point where they're reaching the end of the amount 453 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: of time that they need to give the Nazis to 454 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,919 Speaker 1: absorb this MINS information. So they finally they get the 455 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: guys persona in place. They have the body and now 456 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: it's time to actually carry out the operation. And like 457 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 1: I was saying, they kept a lid on all this, 458 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,479 Speaker 1: so it was a need to know basis. So they 459 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 1: got their hands on a sub commander who could keep 460 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: his mouth shut, and they gave him a metal cylinder 461 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: um with the corpse of glendor Michael now Major William Martin. Yeah, 462 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: when you say subcommander, you mean submarine. Yes, not a 463 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 1: commander below regular commander, that submarine commander. They gave him 464 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: the cylinder and they said, we're gonna tell you what's 465 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: in here. Do not tell anybody else. So apparently the 466 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: people uh staffing this sub um I thought this was 467 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: some sort of weather buoy. Yeah, it was marked optical instruments. Um. 468 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: But you're right. He was the only one on board 469 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: supposedly that knew there was a body inside. Yep, And 470 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: they put a life jacket on him, stuffed him in 471 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: the cylinder, put him on the sub and took him 472 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: over to Spain under a on a submarine. Well, let's 473 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 1: back up for one second, because we we forgot to 474 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: cover the main letter in the brief. This was the 475 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: all of operation mince Meat. It did not hinge on 476 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: theater ticket stubs or bank overdraft letters. That's merely pocket litter. 477 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:22,479 Speaker 1: It hinged on a letter h hinting strongly that the 478 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: invasion was going to come up through Greece Sardinia. Right. 479 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: And that was the other thing too. It wasn't like 480 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: official document invasion is going to come through Greece. It 481 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: was a letter from one general or admiral to another 482 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: high ranking guy, I think general nye Uh. They composed 483 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: a bunch of different letters themselves, and finally they said, 484 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: why don't you write it in your own words, in 485 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: your own language, in your own handwriting everything. So it 486 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: really was written by this this um high ranking US 487 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 1: military official or British military official, um who who who 488 00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: wrote this fake letter? And he made a joke of 489 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: out sardines, a terrible joke, which was the little hint 490 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: that was just clever enough to work, right, And so 491 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: in it it basically says, um, we're we're coming up 492 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: the you know, we're going to strike through Grease that's 493 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: where the invasion of Europe is going to be. Um. 494 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: But we're also going to tell everybody that Cecily is 495 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: the cover. Right. And this was a stroke of genius 496 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: because in this this false letter. Not only does it 497 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: show that they're coming through Greece, which they weren't, but 498 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: it says that Cecily is the cover, which would make 499 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: the Nazis think that if anyone ever did actually leak 500 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: the real invasion plan of Sicily, the Nazis would think 501 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: that that was misinformation. Dude, it was so ingenious. That's 502 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: crazy genus and I think about here now, Chuck, we 503 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: get to the point where we should talk about the 504 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: Enigma machine and the role it played, right, Yeah, Well, 505 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: basically we all know that the Enigma machine was the 506 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: codebreaking machine invented uh in the UK two decipher Uh. Well, 507 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: the Enigma machine wrote the code, I think, oh it 508 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: wrote the code. Yeah, and then the deciphered code that 509 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: they had gotten they deciphered it at Bletchley Park. But 510 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: I think the Enigma machine was the actual code writing 511 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: the encrypting machine. Okay, I could be wrong, but okay, well, 512 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: so we definitely need to do a podcast on there, right, 513 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: because we're mixed up already to get it straight. But 514 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: at any rate, the longest short of it is in 515 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: Beckley Park. Was at Beckley Park, I always say Bletcherly. 516 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: It was there an Ellen. There I draw the whole 517 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: ugly word out. Uh. They basically had they could. It 518 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: was like reading the Nazis email essentially on a daily basis, 519 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: on an hourly basis, hourly basis, they knew exactly what 520 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: was going on, so they would know if they were 521 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: buying this whole thing as it happened in real time. 522 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: But even before that they were able to craft this 523 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: this misinformation based on the Nazis assumption. So everybody wants 524 00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: to hear that there are assumptions that they're believes are correct. 525 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: People are more apt to buy that things that confirm 526 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: their suspicions of their beliefs already. Right, Yeah, Hitler was 527 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: worried about Sicily. He he was, so he he already 528 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: thought that Greece was going to be where we invaded. 529 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: And then secondly he was he we knew that he 530 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: had heard rumors that Mussolini was going to be toppled soon, 531 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: so he was reticent to commit troops to Italy Sicily. Right, So, this, 532 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: this revelation that came in the form of this letter, 533 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: this false letter, completely supported everything that Hitler and the 534 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: Third Reich believed as far as this European invasion was 535 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: going to go and we're able to do that thanks 536 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: to the smarties at at Bletchley Park, Right yeah, and uh, 537 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: this letter to it's Um here's another little tidbit. They 538 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: put a single eyelash in the fold of the letter 539 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: so they would know when they eventually got this letter back, 540 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: if there was no eyelash, they would know that the 541 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: Nazi said in fact opened it. Um. And because the 542 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: idea was they would open it and reseal it and 543 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: act like we never saw it. But there wasn't that 544 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: eyelashed and they'd know not so rudim entry. But it worked. 545 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so, um, should we take another break? Let's 546 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: take a break? Sk shouldn't? Okay? So Chuck, we are 547 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: at sea aboard a submarine that's right, Chili down here, 548 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: and dark it is, and you're not supposed to be 549 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: smoking cigars. No you're not, despite Gene Hackman doing it 550 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: and Crimson tied. Yeah, what a bad idea. Um. So 551 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: we're off the coast of Spain. We're off the coast 552 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: of whoever la not an easy word to say, but 553 00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: it's important Spain. And again this is where Nazi agent Adolph. Yeah, 554 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: they kind of want to float the body right up 555 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 1: to this guy's backyard basically, so they did. He was 556 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: released from this canister. I read somewhere else that, um, 557 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: the canister itself was fired on with submarine submachine guns 558 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: on a sub, so you could just call the machine 559 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: guns there. Um, And it was sunk and the body 560 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: drifted off towards Oh. I thought they just dumped the body. Yeah, 561 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: I'm not sure because I I found a book, um 562 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: on Google Books. It was like from two thousand seven, 563 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: and it was a history book and it made it 564 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: sound like the sub the people working on the sub 565 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: all knew what was going on. But that's in start 566 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: start contrast to everything else we've seen. So they may 567 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: or may not have sunk the weatherbooy, who knows, but 568 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: either way, Major Martin was released into the current that 569 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: took him right to whoeverla and he went. I think 570 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 1: he was found by a fisherman that same day. Uh. Yeah. 571 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: And at this point the Brits started sending telegrams about 572 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: a very important missing person frantic Yeah, like they wanted 573 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: these to get intercepted obviously. Uh, and that worked as well. 574 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: This is all really going exactly as a planned, so 575 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: they said, the British Council in Spain in Huevla, um 576 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: Or in Spain to Huevla and said, you need this 577 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: is really important. You need to get your hands on 578 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: the briefcase. Find out what happened to this guy and 579 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 1: get your hands on his briefcase. And class is going 580 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: briefcase right as monocle popped out, and Um the British 581 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 1: Council and Spain didn't even know what was going on. Yeah, 582 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: they thought like this, like they were they saw everything 583 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: from the same aspect of reality that the Nazis saw exactly. 584 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,320 Speaker 1: So the British Council are trying to get this briefcase 585 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 1: kind of frantically um, and the Spaniards were like, uh, 586 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 1: you know what we are just going to keep this 587 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: on lockdown for now is we investigate the whole thing. 588 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: But we got it covered. Remember where neutral, so your 589 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: briefcase is safe. The British Consulate said, well, okay, one 590 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: thing this is very important. Uh this guy was Roman Catholic. 591 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: You can check out the metal in his pocket. UM, 592 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,280 Speaker 1: so please don't dissect him. It's against Roman Catholic beliefs 593 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,760 Speaker 1: and traditions to um dissector autopsy body I hadn't heard before, 594 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: but apparently in the forties that was the case in 595 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: Spain was way down with that super Roman Catholic and 596 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: they said, oh, yes, of course we won't do that. 597 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,839 Speaker 1: So apparently that's how they got around the fact that 598 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: glend Her hadn't died of pneumonia. Yeah. And the other 599 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: way they got around it was they had a plant 600 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: in the office who talked to the corners and was like, guys, 601 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: it's hot and this body is going to start riting 602 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 1: real soon, so health thorough, do you really want to 603 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: make this? And they said, you're right. Let's go have 604 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 1: some some wine, some uh what they call it over there. No, 605 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 1: what's the pretty sangria. Yeah, let's go have some sangria 606 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,879 Speaker 1: and knock off early. And that's exactly what happened thanks 607 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: to the plant. Uh so this is going on. There 608 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,399 Speaker 1: was a small wrinkle at this point. The briefcase went 609 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: to Madrid. Spain wasn't gonna hand it over to anyone, um, 610 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: But the Brits were trying to get it in the 611 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 1: hands of the Nazis. And they're actually having trouble getting 612 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 1: it into the hands of the Nazis until a guy 613 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,399 Speaker 1: named Carlo Kolin Tall. He was Hitler's most trusted guy 614 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 1: in Spain. Uh. He got wind of it and kind 615 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,839 Speaker 1: of took over for Klaus. Was like, I'm gonna get 616 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: this briefcase, and he did nine days later after the 617 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: body washed Ashore. The letter ended up in the hands 618 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,760 Speaker 1: of the German. The German, uh, you know, it worked 619 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,399 Speaker 1: his way up the chain. Yeah, to Hitler himself. Yeah, 620 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: I went to Gebel's first, and Gebel's even in his 621 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: diary they found later had suspicions about it because he 622 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,280 Speaker 1: was a corkscrew thinker and he was like, wait a minute, 623 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,359 Speaker 1: this is pretty convenient. Yeah, this is really fishy here. 624 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: But he apparently never said anything to Hiller. He got distracted. 625 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 1: He wrote about in his diary, but the documentary said 626 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: his thinking was, well, if Hitler believes it, then that's 627 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: good enough for me. It seems like a bad idea. Yeah, 628 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: and um, homeboy Carlo Coolin Tall. There was always a 629 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 1: lot of speculation on why he just ran with it 630 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 1: and didn't ask more questions because that was his job. 631 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 1: And it turns out his grandmother was Jewish and he 632 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: was very paranoid about this being found out, so he 633 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,839 Speaker 1: thought this is it. I've come upon the greatest find 634 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 1: of the war and it's all mine, so no one 635 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 1: will ask any questions about me after this. Uh wow, 636 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,239 Speaker 1: that worked out really really well. Yeah, very convenient and 637 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: thanks to the Enigma machine where they knew, Um, the 638 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: Brits knew pretty quickly that this was working. And I 639 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: guess Montague and um chumbley uh sent and Admiral God 640 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 1: for you transmission that said Operation Mints me swallowed, rod 641 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: blind and sinker. Yeah that when when the it's so 642 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: cool seeing these old like apparently you're not supposed to 643 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: say elderly anymore, by the way, we got an email. 644 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,399 Speaker 1: I knew that or seniors. We're supposed to call them 645 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 1: older adults. Seniors. I didn't know that that was the thing. Yeah, 646 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: older adults. So they're interviewing these older adults, these British 647 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 1: ladies that are in their eighties now, and they were 648 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 1: just also still excited, they said when they because you know, 649 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,720 Speaker 1: with the Enigma machine, they were basically reading their emails 650 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 1: and they were like they're they knew they were buying it, 651 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: they're buying it, and everyone was just like flipped when 652 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: it came through the office. It was just like party 653 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: time basically. So the operation meants me really really worked 654 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,279 Speaker 1: really well, so much so that apparently Killer moved a 655 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: panzer division which totals about ninety troops from Sicily to 656 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: Greece and and all the artillery and armaments and everything, 657 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: not just soldiers. So long Scily, We're going to grease. 658 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: And then up came the Allies through Sicily. Hundred and 659 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: sixty thousand Allied troops storm Sicily, and only seven thousand 660 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,799 Speaker 1: lives were lost, which is still in a lot of 661 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 1: people who died, but apparently, as far as military historians 662 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,319 Speaker 1: are concerned, and I think the military at the time, 663 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,879 Speaker 1: that was a way fewer lives lost than they expected 664 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: had they had Hitler not swallowed Operation mince Me. Yeah, 665 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: they expected um ten thousand casualties in the first three 666 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 1: days and three hundred boats sunk in the first two days, 667 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,240 Speaker 1: and it ended up being fourteen hundred in that first 668 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:36,439 Speaker 1: week soldiers and about a dozen ships in that first week. 669 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: So that's not bad. Yeah, And not only that, but 670 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: it had another effect, big one the Soviets. Yeah. So 671 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: this is not something that they teach in American history 672 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 1: classes in US high schools that much the the Operation Husky. 673 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 1: Uh well, it was. It was that penetration of Europe's underbelly, right, 674 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:01,160 Speaker 1: And suddenly Hitler said, Um, I'm about to dorm Russia, 675 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:03,720 Speaker 1: but I really need these troops down here in Europe 676 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 1: because I got big problems. And that allowed basically Russia 677 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: to topple the Nazi regime and Mussolini get toppled by 678 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,279 Speaker 1: the Brits. Yeah. It completely changed the face of the war. 679 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 1: This one idea cooked up by me and flaming in 680 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: part that crazy. It's pretty awesome. You got other stuff. Um, 681 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 1: there's a book called Operation Mincemeat by guy named Brett McIntyre. Alright, 682 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,280 Speaker 1: it came out in two thousand ten. That's a very good, 683 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:36,319 Speaker 1: well cited book, um, that we inadvertently cited here there. Um. 684 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,360 Speaker 1: And then there's The Man Who Never Was, which was 685 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,880 Speaker 1: written by you and Montague, which is not just about 686 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,919 Speaker 1: Operation Mincemeat, but also about basically how to carry out 687 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,759 Speaker 1: deception plans. All right. Remember earlier when I said, don't 688 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,839 Speaker 1: feel too bad for uh, for glennd or Michael even 689 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,839 Speaker 1: you said, well, the dude died, possibly of suicide because 690 00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: he was penniless and going nowhere. Yeah, I feel bad 691 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 1: about that, but uh, fifty years after he was buried 692 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:10,880 Speaker 1: in the British government added they basically buried him with 693 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,320 Speaker 1: military honors. The Spanish did, Oh, yeah, he's buried in Spain, 694 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 1: but the British it came from the Brits, I think 695 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 1: to do so. His headstone um came from the Brits, 696 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,880 Speaker 1: but the Spanish buried him with like the twenty one 697 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 1: gun salute and everything. Yes, says Glendor. Michael served as 698 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,879 Speaker 1: Major William Martin, r M. Royal Marine. Pretty cool. Yeah, 699 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:36,360 Speaker 1: so this alcoholic drifter who never served in the military, 700 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,799 Speaker 1: ever served in the military, buried with full military honors. Yeah, 701 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,360 Speaker 1: and completely changed the face of the war thanks to 702 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 1: being a body that fit the fit the bill. And 703 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: if you like ghoulish photos, is a very famous photo 704 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 1: of him being propped up in his life checket and 705 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 1: uniform as they were basically loading him into the cylinder 706 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: um that you can see by searching. I'm sure Major 707 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 1: Charles Martin, that's right, Charles Martin. No, William Martin, William Martin, 708 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:05,520 Speaker 1: something like that. I still want to know what's going 709 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,959 Speaker 1: on with that weird role playing there with the dude. 710 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,759 Speaker 1: That's odd. Dylan Pam. Yeah, yeah, because they interviewed the 711 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 1: lady and she was just like, oh, it was all 712 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:19,280 Speaker 1: very exciting. Yeah, that's a great British lady accent. Older 713 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 1: person yeah yeah, older adulder adult, yeah, oldie. If you 714 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 1: want to get or no, if you want to know 715 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: more about Operation Mincemeat, just type that word into your 716 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: favorite search engine or go check out the stuff you 717 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,800 Speaker 1: missed in history class. Episode. And I said, Steve, you 718 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 1: missed in history class. It's time for listener mail. I'm 719 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,120 Speaker 1: gonna call this bread crust. We had that discussion about 720 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:48,480 Speaker 1: the crust and the in pieces, So this is from 721 00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 1: a dad. Uh. Dear Chuck and Josh, your discussion of 722 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 1: the in slice of bread and the body language episode 723 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,919 Speaker 1: brought ridiculous grin to my face as I walked around 724 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,959 Speaker 1: my neighborhood. Ah, don't worry, though, my neighbors have thought 725 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 1: me to be eccentric for years. Now. Look at that 726 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,359 Speaker 1: guy smiling. What a weirdo. We must be a pinko. 727 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,120 Speaker 1: When our daughters were still tiny, my wife and I 728 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,879 Speaker 1: realized we were doomed to eighteen ish years of eating 729 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 1: bread crusts pieces ourselves if we didn't figure something out 730 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:20,320 Speaker 1: in quickly um our solution. We started calling those pieces 731 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,840 Speaker 1: the lucky piece, and boy did we look our innocent, 732 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,080 Speaker 1: trusting toddlers. Turns out your supposition is correct, chuck, at 733 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:31,120 Speaker 1: least for children under eleven years old, even if their 734 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,279 Speaker 1: honor students is mine, where they will fight you for 735 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,879 Speaker 1: the right to eat that savory, ohso desirable piece of luck. 736 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: Nice idea younger adults. Rock on, guys, and please keep 737 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,560 Speaker 1: my goofy grands coming. That is from Ted c O 738 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,960 Speaker 1: I n e with a little uh. We call that 739 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 1: a coin a a I sent to do? No, I 740 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,840 Speaker 1: don't know. I didn't take French. What do you call that? 741 00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:01,480 Speaker 1: A lagoon? Accent? Lagoom? So thanks Ted, I'll just call 742 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:07,839 Speaker 1: you coin Yeah, thanks quin quin. Don't let's say coin there? 743 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, thanks a lot ted. Ted contacted us on 744 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 1: Twitter so he wanted to send us this email. So 745 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,680 Speaker 1: do you go, Ted? Wow? Um. If you want to 746 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:19,440 Speaker 1: get in touch with us, you can try all the 747 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,080 Speaker 1: ways like Ted did. You can contact us on Twitter 748 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,360 Speaker 1: at s Y s K podcast. You can send us 749 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,279 Speaker 1: an email to Stuff Podcast at how Stuff works dot com. 750 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,560 Speaker 1: You can join us on Facebook dot com slash stuff. 751 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:31,480 Speaker 1: You Should Know, and you can hang out at our 752 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:37,000 Speaker 1: luxurious home on the web. Stuff you Should Know dot Com. 753 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,360 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of I heart Radio. 754 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,399 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart 755 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,400 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 756 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:46,160 Speaker 1: favorite shows.