Speaker 1: Oh hey, there, it's me Jack. You've caught me unwinding,
Speaker 1: enjoying a large goblet of delicious eggnog, untangling my brain,
Speaker 1: gaining five to fifteen pounds of eggnog while we unwind.
Speaker 1: Here at Daily Zeitgeist, in addition to publishing our normal
Speaker 1: year end episodes and Santo's University, etc. We've decided to
Speaker 1: take the opportunity to count down the top ten episodes
Speaker 1: of the year published over the next ten days. The
Speaker 1: ten days that will be off Monday through Friday, two
Speaker 1: weeks in a row. How Jack, how did you guys
Speaker 1: determine the top ten episodes? They were all equally incredible. Well,
Speaker 1: we used a little something called democracy. Ever heard of it?
Speaker 1: Depending on when you listen to this episode, that might
Speaker 1: not be such a rhetorical question. But anyways, we let
Speaker 1: you vote on the most listened to episodes of the
Speaker 1: year to see what you liked best. And you're about
Speaker 1: to hear your answers. Just ten bangers right in a row.
Speaker 1: We've got a trending episode in the mix. We got
Speaker 1: a lot of good ones and at number one, well,
Speaker 1: let's just say you'll find out, especially if this is
Speaker 1: the number one episode we're putting this same bumper at
Speaker 1: the start of all ten, so we hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed listening to this year of TDZ
Speaker 1: as much as we enjoyed making it. And we will
Speaker 1: see you all in twenty twenty five. We hope you
Speaker 1: have a RESTful holiday. I couldnot fucking sleep all night,
Speaker 1: all night.
Speaker 2: I've been up like a fucking owl, like THEO Vaughn
Speaker 2: was telling Donald Trump interview. I should I'll have you
Speaker 2: like an owl, man, you'd be your own fucking not
Speaker 2: you being a street light light, just like and that's good.
Speaker 1: No, that's good, that's good. And that feeling you like
Speaker 1: that feeling.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I do not want to feel like
Speaker 2: a vampire with a heart condition. And yeah, for the record,
Speaker 2: it's not because I was doing cocaine. This had a
Speaker 2: been a low grade anxiety that kept me up all night.
Speaker 1: Is that what they're calling it? Yeah, okay, okay, all right,
Speaker 1: and I'm like an Now.
Speaker 2: We call that, we call that poor people's cocaine anxiety.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just a low great anxiety, the poor man's cocaine.
Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season three, fifty three,
Speaker 1: Episode five of dirt Ally's Like I Say, production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: This is a podcast where we take a deep dive
Speaker 1: into American share consciousness. And it is Friday, August thirtieth,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. Yeah, yes, last day.
Speaker 2: No, well thirty, they're thirty one days. They're thirty one
Speaker 2: days half August exactly. Also, Hey, guess guess who I
Speaker 2: get to shout out today? Shout up to my dad
Speaker 2: is his bay, seventy years old up in this place.
Speaker 1: Congrats to you. I was just at a friend of
Speaker 1: my youngests and they have an amazing work from your
Speaker 1: dad on their wall. Oh they do? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh well you know, yeah, you're very white. My
Speaker 2: dad is internationally known and locally respected as an artist.
Speaker 2: So I appreciate, appreciate the support from everybody. But also
Speaker 2: August thirtieth is National Beach Day, National Grief Awareness Day,
Speaker 2: National Toasted Marshmallow Day, and for all you college fans,
Speaker 2: it's National College Colors Day. I am not wearing mine,
Speaker 2: Sadly I should normally maybe kind of I need, I
Speaker 2: need some more gray, But I feel like I wear
Speaker 2: like my Alma matership because I'm like, well, I gave
Speaker 2: these people so much money, like I have to. I
Speaker 2: need to get something out of it. We're like, they
Speaker 2: should brand me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the amount of money I gave them. Thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. Yes, all right, Well, my name
Speaker 1: is Jack O'Brien aka my Doughnuts. Bring jd Vance to
Speaker 1: the yard and he's like, whatever makes sense, damn right,
Speaker 1: whatever makes sense? That one courtesy and Macaroni on the
Speaker 1: discord new jd Vance flub just dropped. I'm sure we
Speaker 1: talked about it yesterday's trending, but his uh.
Speaker 2: Did you did you see?
Speaker 1: Don't worry any every everybody. I'm not gonna take my
Speaker 1: shirt off. Okay, it's a banger.
Speaker 2: It's another was being booed by firefighters, so he just silence. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Anyways, I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my
Speaker 1: co host, mister Miles Gras.
Speaker 2: It's Miles Gray aka whale was beached.
Speaker 3: YEA be headed it with the chainsaw and it strapped
Speaker 3: it to the top.
Speaker 2: Of the car.
Speaker 3: Whale was beached ya because I'm a normal hunter and
Speaker 3: whales are cool.
Speaker 2: You know that they are? Oh wales? Okay, shout out
Speaker 2: to clearly Dot Universe for that creep.
Speaker 1: Tlc RFK hunter. Another creep.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a true, true creep. But yeah, that whale was
Speaker 2: beached and hey whale. As Michael Knowles on the Daily
Speaker 2: Wires and whales are.
Speaker 1: Cool and he's a hunter, so it's normal. Find a
Speaker 1: new angle exactly, chainsong of whales head does normal? Find
Speaker 1: a new angle? Mis whales juice? Thrill Whale juice is wonderful.
Speaker 1: We are thrilled to be joined in our third seat
Speaker 1: by a poet and a lawyer who is the co
Speaker 1: founder and executive director of Partners for Justice, which is
Speaker 1: designed to create a new model of collaborative public defense
Speaker 1: designed to empower You probably read her deep dive on
Speaker 1: Twitter into Project twenty twenty five. Please welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: Emily Galvin.
Speaker 4: O'monza very happy to be here, and I'm so sad
Speaker 4: that I don't have an Internet supplied jingle or joke
Speaker 4: to go along. I'm just sitting here like horrified at
Speaker 4: you guys having unearthed my deep poet history.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you do a little googling. Do the math is
Speaker 1: a public you are a published poet.
Speaker 4: I am math. Poetry is the most marketable genre of literature.
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's the top seller. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you were doing math poetry.
Speaker 4: Yes, poetry is math, right, like when you have a
Speaker 4: rhythm of word, you know, the same way music is math.
Speaker 4: Poetry is math. I just started with other math first
Speaker 4: and then tried to create poetic forms that adhere to
Speaker 4: that math again.
Speaker 2: Real bang Yeah wow, Okay, that's like some like tool
Speaker 2: type shit you like, I'm using sacred geometry to write down.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah. If only I could be in the same category
Speaker 4: as tool, I would be. I mean, that's that's the best.
Speaker 4: That's the that's the height of my poetic career. You
Speaker 4: just you just made it right there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right. I get it. I get it.
Speaker 1: I get it. So we we did reach out to
Speaker 1: you on this length of project, your project twenty twenty
Speaker 1: five Twitter thread, Deep Dive, and then we found out,
Speaker 1: like we have a bunch of mutual friends and we're
Speaker 1: a big fan of your work otherwise, but the project
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five thing, you were just like kind of
Speaker 1: reading it because you can read and comprehend lots of text,
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, this is worse than I imagined.
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, what makes the project twenty twenty five texts
Speaker 4: really really dangerous is that it's written to sound super normal,
Speaker 4: and it's also incredibly long. It's like nine hundred pages long.
Speaker 4: And so if you are a layperson who's just a
Speaker 4: little bit concerned about what the Heritage Foundation might be
Speaker 4: putting out there, because you recognize that they were heavily
Speaker 4: influential in Donald Trump's last administration, and you see that
Speaker 4: a lot of his administration cronies had contributed to this document,
Speaker 4: you want to peruse it. It might not seem as
Speaker 4: scary as it actually is because it's written again to
Speaker 4: sound very very normal and that sort of like policies.
Speaker 4: But having you know, gone to law school and been
Speaker 4: forced to read lots of stuff, I think it was
Speaker 4: a good use of time to try to kind of
Speaker 4: get in there and translate for people some of the
Speaker 4: scariest aspects of the policy plan. And then I got
Speaker 4: really far in there and wrote like a four hundred
Speaker 4: tweet thread about how bad it is and also how insane,
Speaker 4: like they're weird obsession with boyfriends and like how scared
Speaker 4: of boyfriends they are?
Speaker 1: Yeah, wait, what is their obsession with boyfriends? Oh?
Speaker 4: My yead, So they think that single moms are terrible, right,
Speaker 4: super popular parsil like, let's all hate on single moms.
Speaker 4: They had this fixation on fatherhood. They're of course very
Speaker 4: very interested in preserving the nuclear, heteronormative family. But from
Speaker 4: that flows this like weird paragraph where they actually talk
Speaker 4: about how dangerous like a single mom is bad, but
Speaker 4: like a single mom with a boyfriend it's the worst
Speaker 4: possible outcome for children and the like. This part is
Speaker 4: actually not done in like very elegant policies. They like
Speaker 4: actually hate on boyfriends for a while. It's just there
Speaker 4: are these twists deep within the document that are working.
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, they're probably named Craig, and like they
Speaker 2: eat your cereal and like and they don't even ask
Speaker 2: you when you're twelve or when maybe your kid is
Speaker 2: twelve whatever. Maybe my life is bleeding into what I'm writing.
Speaker 4: Here's the policy equivalent. If you're not my real dad,
Speaker 4: it's just right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is so weird, but yeah, but I mean
Speaker 2: so many conservative men have that energy of like you're
Speaker 2: not my real dad, and you're like, wow, dude, we
Speaker 2: weren't even talking about anything related to that, and you
Speaker 2: went with that.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, you just.
Speaker 4: Needed to take it down like six notches.
Speaker 1: Yes, right, yeah, yeah, absolutely, all right, Well, we will
Speaker 1: link off to the entire thread in the footnotes. We
Speaker 1: are going to get to know you a little bit
Speaker 1: better in a moment. First, a couple of things that
Speaker 1: we're talking about later on when we get to the news.
Speaker 1: The mainstream media, it has been pointed out recently, seem
Speaker 1: to actually be for all the talk of there being
Speaker 1: a anti Trump bias, they really seem to help him
Speaker 1: in a lot of So we just want to cover
Speaker 1: a couple small examples. The right has their new case
Speaker 1: closed winning strategy against Harris Waltz. This time it is
Speaker 1: taking down Harris's Donald's job story in the least convincing
Speaker 1: way possible.
Speaker 2: Oh, she's being mixed Swift voted to.
Speaker 1: Be mix Swift voted yep. And then we're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about a company called Axon. Now, I know you're hearing
Speaker 1: the name Axon and you're like, that company sounds like
Speaker 1: they do good in the world and probably not scary.
Speaker 1: Axon is actually a terrifying fucking company that is like
Speaker 1: the private arm of America's police, and they are experimenting
Speaker 1: with using AI to help police do more damage. So
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about that and just some of the
Speaker 1: other shit that they've done there. There is a photograph
Speaker 1: that our writer JM put in the doc that is
Speaker 1: their CEO addressing a crowd, and he is not him,
Speaker 1: Like the person addressing the crowd is in a all
Speaker 1: black suit and has a motorcycle helmet on and then
Speaker 1: an iPad strapped to the front with his face on it,
Speaker 1: but is like gesture as he delivers the speech from wherever,
Speaker 1: bun whatever, like volcanic layer he's at. The person is
Speaker 1: like gesturing with his words too, So it's like a
Speaker 1: weird avatar situation that is just it's all so very
Speaker 1: on the nose. Might also talk about this New York
Speaker 1: Times article about alternative policing and just where we're at
Speaker 1: with the mainstream media when it comes to, you know,
Speaker 1: things that aren't police, that aren't armed police, and how
Speaker 1: that's being talked about these days in the mainstream all
Speaker 1: that plenty more. But first, Emily, we do like to
Speaker 1: ask our guest, what is something from your search history
Speaker 1: that's revealing about who you are?
Speaker 4: Oh man, So it's actually really right that you guys
Speaker 4: asked me this because a few months ago Okay, so
Speaker 4: the story is gonna get weird. A deer impaled itself
Speaker 4: on my colleague's fence, oh no, and my colleague, of course,
Speaker 4: shared a photograph with our entire team to ask Jesus,
Speaker 4: what do I do now there's a dead deer on
Speaker 4: my fence. And it just so happened that I dipped
Speaker 4: into my own Google search history to demonstrate how ready
Speaker 4: for this topic I actually was, and I took a
Speaker 4: screen grap I'm actually going to show you guys to
Speaker 4: prove that it's really a screen grab of my search
Speaker 4: results from that day, which were as follows wordle how
Speaker 4: to gut a deer at home, Oh no, how to
Speaker 4: dress a deer at home? Inflation Reduction Act Rebates twenty
Speaker 4: twenty four Massachusetts driving directions to the Magical Bridge Playground.
Speaker 4: That's there.
Speaker 2: You go, wait, what's the Magical Bridge break? I'm like,
Speaker 2: more like, what's the Magical Bridge?
Speaker 4: You know, it's actually really cool. In this area where
Speaker 4: I was living in California at time, because I teach
Speaker 4: at Stanford during the winter, there is this playground that
Speaker 4: was actually designed to be really accessible for kids with disabilities.
Speaker 4: And it turned out that the playground that's accessible. Is
Speaker 4: actually the best playground ever made, and it's everybody's favorite playground.
Speaker 4: So that's the one I was taking my kid too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this place looks like a fucking theme park.
Speaker 4: It's amazing. There's like three, there's more than three of them.
Speaker 4: They're they're popping up everywhere. They're they're the next generation
Speaker 4: of playgrounds.
Speaker 2: Really wow wow wow wow.
Speaker 1: Okay. I like to see that.
Speaker 2: And you can tell it's got that like tartan on
Speaker 2: the ground, Like that makes it real soft and sunshine.
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, you hurt their little heads on like when
Speaker 4: they've grown up and it was just all concrete.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or i'd get like wood moults stuck under my
Speaker 2: toenails or something because like try to go barefoot down
Speaker 2: the slide.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the slide burns you, and then the wood impales
Speaker 4: at the bottom and that.
Speaker 2: Makes them stronger, and then you get that nice aroma
Speaker 2: of like smoky playground for sure.
Speaker 1: Read yeah, safe for my kids. The tartan. And also
Speaker 1: I feel like I jump higher on it, and so
Speaker 1: I like to show that off when I'm at the playground. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna dunk on these monkey bars. Oh it's five
Speaker 1: feet high.
Speaker 4: Cristiana Ronaldo of the of the Mugical Bridge Playground.
Speaker 1: Yeah, why was your partners or the person who texted you,
Speaker 1: Why was their fence so sharp? Is that a thing
Speaker 1: that is normal?
Speaker 4: Great question. I don't know. They live in the South.
Speaker 4: I can't speak to Southern fence practices. I don't I
Speaker 4: have a lot of fence experience. I've myself constructed a
Speaker 4: lot of four string barb wire fence grown up in
Speaker 4: ranch culture, but never something with an impalable top.
Speaker 2: I have real questions, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Like it is that by design? Is he like I'm
Speaker 1: gonna leave the deer there to tell the other deer
Speaker 1: what happens when you try to come on our property?
Speaker 1: Or is it just like an accident because it was
Speaker 1: so I'm.
Speaker 4: Gonna go with the former. I'm gonna decide that whoever
Speaker 4: install that fence wanted it to be a place where
Speaker 4: you could impale ahead just really.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, like what like in Game of Thrones
Speaker 2: when like Kalisi takes over that place and like the
Speaker 2: heads are like on pikes and stuff or body Yeah yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Guess, or in real life in human history.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that was like everywhere that was just interior
Speaker 1: or exterior decorating.
Speaker 4: Back in the day, need like a wisconce and then
Speaker 4: a head.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like we like to around Christmas, have
Speaker 1: points set as the rest of your heads, just heads
Speaker 1: decorating everything. What is? What's something you think is underrated?
Speaker 4: So I I thought about this question a lot. I
Speaker 4: think that tea time is underrated. And I'm gonna make
Speaker 4: a defensive of tea time because when I see say
Speaker 4: tea time, people usually think of sort of like stodgy, British,
Speaker 4: pinky raised, unpleasantly meticulous. Okay, tea time is supposed to
Speaker 4: be an incredible spread at like four o'clock in the afternoon,
Speaker 4: where if you are like me, you are most ravenous.
Speaker 4: There should be pastries and cakes and like say everythings.
Speaker 4: My husband is Bolivian. Bolivians really do tea time like
Speaker 4: they do They will fill your table at tea time
Speaker 4: and then dinner is like a light snack. I think
Speaker 4: this is a really underrated way of living one's life
Speaker 4: because that's when I actually want to just become a
Speaker 4: complete glutton and move my way across a full table
Speaker 4: at four o'clock in the afternoon, when I'm just when
Speaker 4: I've had it with the world. So I think tea time,
Speaker 4: we should bring tea time back.
Speaker 1: Wow, I didn't know.
Speaker 2: Like Bolivians are really I'm just reading about these they
Speaker 2: got salon reading about these Bolivia, these Olivions.
Speaker 1: They love the tea time.
Speaker 4: It comes on tea time.
Speaker 1: It's a whole.
Speaker 4: It's very elegant, it's very comforting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, four o'clock is snack time for me. Like I'm
Speaker 1: just wondering, Like I feel like I basically recreated this
Speaker 1: in my own life, but with a snack drawer because
Speaker 1: you know, being raised Catholic, I have shame and so
Speaker 1: like I just have all the snacks, but they're like
Speaker 1: in a drawer, and I just like eat over the
Speaker 1: drawer all the different snacksave it in there. It's my
Speaker 1: tea time shame drawer. Wait, what do you wait? What
Speaker 1: do you got in there?
Speaker 2: Like loose bread slices or just loose breads all scale,
Speaker 2: a couple of pieces of wonderbread.
Speaker 1: No, I got got chips, I got some some pretzels,
Speaker 1: I got cashews, maybe maybe some sorted nuts in there,
Speaker 1: and then you know, I'll bring out one bag of
Speaker 1: either chips or pretzels. At a time to accompany you know,
Speaker 1: some things from the cold cut drawer, Oh wow, or
Speaker 1: some you know or hummus, how dignified. Wait, what's this
Speaker 1: one at a time?
Speaker 2: What's the spread out of Bolivion tea time?
Speaker 1: Emily?
Speaker 4: Oh my god. So you're obviously gonna have different beverages,
Speaker 4: including tea, but you're also going to have both an
Speaker 4: array of savory and an array of sweet options. Okay,
Speaker 4: And I am going to state right here that asking
Speaker 4: an actual Bolivion would get you a better answer, being
Speaker 4: of course being there, you know, here without a Bolivion
Speaker 4: on the call, I'm gonna highlight like something which are
Speaker 4: a breakfast food as one of the best Bolivian foods
Speaker 4: you can get. You can get a ton in like
Speaker 4: the uh DC metro area, a ton of Bolivian's there.
Speaker 4: You can get them sort of all across Virginia and
Speaker 4: some in California. But Southanias is basically like a like
Speaker 4: a savory pastry full of delicious stew and you can
Speaker 4: kind of bite off the end and sip the stew
Speaker 4: and then eat the pastry.
Speaker 1: Oh it's souping.
Speaker 2: Because like when I see a picture, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: this looks like anada.
Speaker 4: But oh my god, you will never touch another.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 4: South is our next level. We have which are like
Speaker 4: a like a cheese pastry that are really fluffy and delicious.
Speaker 4: They're kind of like a powdered casual but better better,
Speaker 4: Oh way better, way better.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, go on, go on.
Speaker 4: Will I'm here to talk about Lyvian food and I
Speaker 4: will tell you some of the best in the world. No,
Speaker 4: they're gonna have all kinds of like real dishes, like meats,
Speaker 4: prepared meats, and and maybe a stew. And then you're
Speaker 4: also going to have a lot of like cakes and
Speaker 4: pastries and the sort of usual.
Speaker 1: Like just started sweating, like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I love pald occasual. Like when I first
Speaker 2: had that the first I'm like, my god, what the
Speaker 2: fuck are we doing up here? Like I love and
Speaker 2: now seeing the other one we say is the fact
Speaker 2: that it's sort of like a soup dumpling, but the
Speaker 2: Bolivian version was like first you got to take the
Speaker 2: bite and then get the soup out and then keep going.
Speaker 2: I'm also intrigued by the structural integrity of the pastry
Speaker 2: that can contain a stew within it.
Speaker 1: This comes down to scale.
Speaker 4: I mean the pastry is like really robust and like
Speaker 4: almost has a slight sweetness and thick chewiness to it.
Speaker 4: But it's also like you're gonna get judged on your
Speaker 4: skill level, Like some people are beginners and they need
Speaker 4: to use a utensil or they might get stew on
Speaker 4: them once they're real pro. You're just holding that saltania
Speaker 4: in one hand and like longboarding down the road, no
Speaker 4: stew anywhere on.
Speaker 1: Your person bottle. Yeah, what is something you think is overrated?
Speaker 4: I'm gonna stay with my food theme. I actually think
Speaker 4: we've gotten to the point where where brunches is overrated.
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, like everybody's doing brunch every weekend, and
Speaker 4: it's getting the point where it's just like flat, flabby
Speaker 4: breakfast food at a different time of day, and I'm
Speaker 4: no longer excited by it. I'm no longer inspired over it.
Speaker 2: I think brunch like loses its appeal the earlier I
Speaker 2: wake up. Like when I was like younger and like
Speaker 2: like you know, going out and shit like that, and
Speaker 2: I'd wake up lane, I'm like, yeah, brunch, but yeah,
Speaker 2: let's eat at one that's breakfast. But now I'm like,
Speaker 2: not already eight or it's depends on you know, if
Speaker 2: there's an occasion.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2: I guess is that is that maybe one of our
Speaker 2: latest food fads that's going away now it is a brunch.
Speaker 4: Oh, it'll never go away.
Speaker 1: Yeah maybe maybe.
Speaker 4: Actually the right answer to how to live one's life
Speaker 4: is to only have brunch and tea. I mean maybe breakfast,
Speaker 4: lunch and dinner.
Speaker 1: Or two meals. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, two meals. Give
Speaker 1: me a brunch, give me a tea, give me that tea.
Speaker 1: I mean, does the enthusiasm for tea just like make
Speaker 1: you less likely to have anything at dinner? I feel
Speaker 1: like dinner becomes an afterthought at that point. Well, snack
Speaker 1: dinner like spread for tea. Okay, I like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: brunch is not a natural time for me to be hungry.
Speaker 1: If I've eaten breakfast, then like brunch is not.
Speaker 2: Real, or you do the thing where you wake up
Speaker 2: you're like, fuck, dude, brunch is in four hours and
Speaker 2: you're like I don't want to like go and not
Speaker 2: eat anything. So then you're like walking this tightrope of
Speaker 2: not eating before or showing up. Hangary, You're like this,
Speaker 2: show up me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, all right, let's take a quick break and
Speaker 1: we'll be right back. And we're back. We're back. And yeah.
Speaker 1: So there's been some talk it's being called sane washing
Speaker 1: when it comes to the Trump campaign, like that how
Speaker 1: the mainstream media covers President Trump former President Trump's long
Speaker 1: ramble laying press conferences. Yeah and yeah, but it just
Speaker 1: it does feel like there's a different standard when it
Speaker 1: comes to him, possibly because of the glut of insanity
Speaker 1: that is like coming at us, or possibly just because
Speaker 1: I don't know that you want to make it a
Speaker 1: good a good game. Everyone wants to see a good game,
Speaker 1: so we gotta we gotta make sure it's close.
Speaker 2: No one likes to blow out, so we got to
Speaker 2: prop up the orange guy who's deteriorating before our eyes.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like you, like you said Aaron Rupar, like
Speaker 2: on a lot of his videos that he clips out
Speaker 2: and puts out on Twitter, like whenever he cut Like
Speaker 2: we've we've played a couple of those clips where trumb
Speaker 2: will be rambling on they'll cut back to someone in
Speaker 2: the student like what he means to say is actually
Speaker 2: this not that Hannibal elector was a real person and
Speaker 2: a good guy.
Speaker 1: What he means a late great Hannibal elector represents our democracy.
Speaker 1: He just wants to talk about all the ways.
Speaker 2: He's a poet actually. But like two recent events in
Speaker 2: the presidential race have kind of underscored how the mainstream
Speaker 2: met tries to normalize Trump and like his circus of
Speaker 2: political aids. So this week, obviously he made headlines for
Speaker 2: insisting on taking photos and filming a TikTok video for
Speaker 2: his campaign in a section of Arlington National Cemetery that
Speaker 2: prohibits that very thing. In fact, it's a violation of
Speaker 2: federal law to use a military cemetery for campaign purposes.
Speaker 2: So while this was happening happening, there was a press
Speaker 2: release that came out of the Trump campaign to sort
Speaker 2: of like paper things over, and journalist Brandon Friedman he
Speaker 2: pointed out on Twitter how the Trump campaign's press release
Speaker 2: had a very dumb typo in it.
Speaker 1: Quote.
Speaker 2: In the statement, campaign manager Chris Losovita incorrectly used the
Speaker 2: word hollowed instead of hallowed. On this hollowed hallowed out, Yeah,
Speaker 2: knock on a hollowed gesture, hallowed ground exactly right, precise
Speaker 2: precisely Fridian slip like so axios the Daily Beasts, they
Speaker 2: added the sort of parenthetical sick to sort of say,
Speaker 2: like if they misused the word, this is what they
Speaker 2: meant to say. But if few other organizations, as you
Speaker 2: pointed out, sort of caught the misuse but then corrected
Speaker 2: it on behalf of the Trump campaign, like CNN did,
Speaker 2: and just like they're like, they meant hallowed, dude, just
Speaker 2: change it so people don't make like, you know, point
Speaker 2: out they made a typo. The New York Times predictably
Speaker 2: ran the story with the typo unedited, and then but
Speaker 2: like so if you searched in Google, you'd be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: they wrote hollowed haha. But when you click it, they
Speaker 2: republished it and edit it, edited it to be hallowed
Speaker 2: without any sort of reference to the fact that there
Speaker 2: was a typo. And then they had, you know, dud
Speaker 2: you basically like, we're doing some copy intern stuff for
Speaker 2: the camp the Trump campaign. But this is like a
Speaker 2: subtle example, but like worth noting because these like small
Speaker 2: accommodations are at the very least bad journalism and at
Speaker 2: best being like, no, we're helping them because like we
Speaker 2: they we just need them to look a little.
Speaker 1: Bit more like together than they obviously are.
Speaker 2: So the other thing that has been like being pointed
Speaker 2: out across the media is from like the CNN shit,
Speaker 2: Like during the DNC, they would have these panels of
Speaker 2: like quote undecided voters to be like, well, so what
Speaker 2: did you think about that you're undecided? And right after
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris gave her acceptance speech, they spoke to a
Speaker 2: panel of supposedly undecided voters in Pennsylvania, and one man
Speaker 2: was clearly an outlier, Like after the speech, he's like, I.
Speaker 1: Don't know, that thing was like bad.
Speaker 2: Most people are like, yeah, that was that was pretty good.
Speaker 2: That that wasn't that wasn't fun? That yeah, that was fine.
Speaker 2: He's like, nah, there's nothing. There's a big nothing burger.
Speaker 2: And then when the panel, like the person who was
Speaker 2: hosting the panel said, has anyone decided yet after this
Speaker 2: speech who they're going to vote for? This guy immediately
Speaker 2: raised his hand. He's like, yeah, I'm voting for Trump.
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, okay. Midas Touch looked into this guy
Speaker 2: and his social media is like littered with MAGA crap,
Speaker 2: Like he's very much clearly like a Trump supporter.
Speaker 1: And when they pressed.
Speaker 2: CNN and him on it, they both kind of had
Speaker 2: conflicting stories. The man said, yeah, dude, I told CNN
Speaker 2: I was a Trump like, I'm a Trump guy, and
Speaker 2: they just asked if I could keep an open mind,
Speaker 2: and I said, yeah, I can't keep an open mind.
Speaker 2: So I went and they called me undecided. CNN was like, well, technically,
Speaker 2: when we spoke to him, he said he hadn't decided
Speaker 2: who he was gonna support, so we invited him to
Speaker 2: speak on the panel. And that's where you're just like,
Speaker 2: what the Like, I'm always confused when they do these
Speaker 2: like undecided sort of panels. I'm like, who, like, who
Speaker 2: really are these people? Like are they really that undecided?
Speaker 2: Because they seem pretty informed for being undecided. And then
Speaker 2: I'm like, what is it that you're waiting for on
Speaker 2: either side? For you'd be like, all right, Trump said
Speaker 2: the thing I needed to hear, all right, the Democrats
Speaker 2: said the thing I needed to hear. And this could
Speaker 2: be like a one off or like a you know,
Speaker 2: simple mistake, but like, you know, Parker macloy pointed out
Speaker 2: that CNN has like a pattern of this shit, Like
Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen, they had a roundtable with Trump supporters
Speaker 2: where like a woman went on like a viral tirade
Speaker 2: against Obama and the issue here. It's just that this
Speaker 2: wasn't like some fox brained normal person. This was like
Speaker 2: a sitting New Hampshire leg Just later Bertha who tried
Speaker 2: to keep Obama off the New Hampshire ballot, who's just
Speaker 2: presenting as just a citizen in New Hampshire. Then in
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, CNN also had a discussion with quote five
Speaker 2: conservative women from Florida to discuss the sexual assault allegations
Speaker 2: against Brett Kavanaugh, and the women's responses were, yeah, here,
Speaker 2: I'll I'll just play the supposed five conservative women from
Speaker 2: Florida talking about the allegations against Kavanaugh a.
Speaker 4: Show of hands. How many of you believe Judge Kavanaugh
Speaker 4: when he says this didn't happen?
Speaker 6: Abaleena Believa, believe Abalea. How can we believe the word
Speaker 6: of a woman or something that happened thirty six years ago?
Speaker 6: When this guy has an impeccable reputation. It wasn't nobody
Speaker 6: nobody that has spoken.
Speaker 1: Ill will about him.
Speaker 5: Everyone that speaks about him. This guy's an altar boy,
Speaker 5: you know, a scout.
Speaker 6: He's you know, because one woman made an allegation.
Speaker 5: Sorry I don't buy it, but in the grand scheme
Speaker 5: of things, my goodness you there was no intercourse.
Speaker 6: There was maybe a time. Can we really thirty six
Speaker 6: years later she still step on that had it happened.
Speaker 5: I mean, we're talking about a fifteen year old girl,
Speaker 5: which I respect, you know, I'm a woman. I respect.
Speaker 5: We're talking about a seventeen year old boy in high
Speaker 5: school with a stots ll running high Tell me what
Speaker 5: boy hasn't done this in high school.
Speaker 2: So the thing is a huge Journalists looked into these people,
Speaker 2: and at least three of them are political operatives, like
Speaker 2: like one woman like was hosting fundraisers for the GOP.
Speaker 2: Another was running for like was a candidate for office.
Speaker 2: So they had people that were like part of like
Speaker 2: the GOP, like machinery go in there to sort of
Speaker 2: provide intellectual cover for people to be like, yeah, whatever
Speaker 2: happened to our kabnall was not that bad. I mean,
Speaker 2: these five normal people just said that it's nothing, so
Speaker 2: maybe maybe it is. They just framed them as like
Speaker 2: some people with conservatives, Yeah, just as conservatives that were
Speaker 2: living in Florida and their take on it. So it's
Speaker 2: just a yeah, it's just an odd, odd practice, but
Speaker 2: may be quite intentional. But I guess it depends on
Speaker 2: how you look at things, Emily, how do you sort
Speaker 2: of see this kind of journalism with what's your take
Speaker 2: on that?
Speaker 4: Well, it's not happening in a vacuum. When I look
Speaker 4: at this, what I see, honestly is I'm a trial lawyer.
Speaker 4: I see the jury selection process, right, which is a
Speaker 4: similar space.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: It's this space where we're all pretending to be neutral,
Speaker 4: and we have no pre existing beliefs, and we're coming
Speaker 4: in here with a totally open mind. And yet everyone
Speaker 4: walked through the door totally looked at my client was like,
Speaker 4: I wonder what that person did? Right, So we also
Speaker 4: see real restrictions on who's invited to be part of
Speaker 4: that process. Like you got to look at how media
Speaker 4: put out the call for people to sign up for
Speaker 4: opportunities like this, the same way you got to look
Speaker 4: at how you know in the jury system, people with
Speaker 4: prior convictions are excluded, People who aren't on the voter
Speaker 4: rolls are excluded. People who may not have a driver's
Speaker 4: license can be excluded, people who don't have a mailing
Speaker 4: address are excluded, So you get these juries that are
Speaker 4: sort of made wealthier and wider and more conservative by
Speaker 4: the ways in which people are even invited to attend.
Speaker 4: And then that's sort of distilled into an even more
Speaker 4: sort of pro prosecution extract through the process of questioning people.
Speaker 4: And then if a person's like, I don't know if
Speaker 4: I can be fair, the judge is like, you can
Speaker 4: keep an open mind, right, same, it's the CNN question, right, right.
Speaker 4: You've told us who you are and what you believe in,
Speaker 4: but you can sett all that aside, can't you.
Speaker 2: Right, So I'm as huh, I can keep an open
Speaker 2: mind here? Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1: I think so.
Speaker 2: But that's not a problem for me brother in law technically.
Speaker 1: But yeah.
Speaker 4: So yeah, Like who's who's the producer, who's setting up
Speaker 4: the process through which these people appear, and who's the
Speaker 4: person not doing like a basic social media.
Speaker 2: Search, right, because like in that instance of the guy
Speaker 2: like in the undecided, like I mean whatever, that guy
Speaker 2: just there's like I get to be on TV or whatever,
Speaker 2: Like I mean that that that's clearly on the producers,
Speaker 2: like you're saying, of how they're selecting people and whether
Speaker 2: they they are doing it intentionally or just don't care
Speaker 2: because they're like, I don't know, they said they were, man,
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to get five people.
Speaker 1: In the room so they could talk.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I guess maybe it was a mistake for
Speaker 2: me to reach out to my friend who like runs
Speaker 2: the local Republican party to ask if they knew five
Speaker 2: people who wanted to be on camera for CNN.
Speaker 4: But yeah, it's also like what's the utility, Like, what
Speaker 4: are we really gaining? It's not a scientific process. This
Speaker 4: group of people doesn't necessarily represent or speak for the
Speaker 4: average undecided voter. Now we know that they're maybe not
Speaker 4: even undecided at all. Maybe they're just a political operative
Speaker 4: who has a good, you know, makeup face. Right, I
Speaker 4: don't understand what the average viewer is gaining from these events.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, it's always meant to I think I don't know,
Speaker 2: like half the time when I see those panels or
Speaker 2: people undecided, like like I said that, they seem to know.
Speaker 2: They don't seem like low information voters, you know, like,
Speaker 2: and so then I'm like, I that's where I'm like,
Speaker 2: these people sound like they're basically Democrats or Republicans who
Speaker 2: are being like I don't know, but probably this.
Speaker 4: Low information voters would be great. Like, honestly, you put
Speaker 4: people on there who first of all normalize being a
Speaker 4: low inform voter, make it okay to be like, hey,
Speaker 4: I actually don't know about this or this issue is
Speaker 4: confusing me, and I'd like a better explanation, and then
Speaker 4: present an opportunity for the mass media audience to also
Speaker 4: receive that explanation, so that people It's the same way
Speaker 4: as high school teacher might say, like, if you have
Speaker 4: a question, somebody else probably has the same question. Please
Speaker 4: ask your question. We could do that. I don't know
Speaker 4: why we're doing this instead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no stupid questions. The thing that every good professor
Speaker 2: will tell you or teacher who's like no, no ask, ask
Speaker 2: because you got to know, or else, yeah, you ask
Speaker 2: weird stuff or learn weird stuff because you don't ask.
Speaker 1: There's that sketch and everybody's in la the John Mulaney
Speaker 1: series where they're like doing a daily show style like
Speaker 1: interview with a guy who's like saying really stupid shit
Speaker 1: about like Trump and his support for Trump, and then
Speaker 1: they like follow him home and he's like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I'm stupid. On TV for a living that's like my thing.
Speaker 1: I actually got interviewed by Borat a couple of years
Speaker 1: ago that was a career highlight, and like he's just
Speaker 1: like I have this like room that I keep in
Speaker 1: my house that looks like shit and has like a
Speaker 1: Confederate flag up and then but like I keep that
Speaker 1: stuff separate, like I actually live with my family and
Speaker 1: the kids, like we have this nice house that Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, these are political operatives essentially, Like
Speaker 1: it's the real, the real version of that, except you know,
Speaker 1: obviously they are employed and like working within these massive
Speaker 1: parties too write convey what those parties need conveyed.
Speaker 2: But I think it's also yeah, it sort of shows
Speaker 2: too how we talk about how like a lot of
Speaker 2: media outlets just aren't able to reckon with real issues
Speaker 2: because of the fact that they're so entrenched in a
Speaker 2: lot of these systems themselves.
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, I think this is this is good enough.
Speaker 1: Can we actually speak objectively about that?
Speaker 2: I don't know, but you know, this is like I think, yeah,
Speaker 2: this is where a lot of the media is falling
Speaker 2: short at a time when people really need to have
Speaker 2: like the truth, which we don't get all the time.
Speaker 4: I also don't know what objective necessarily looks like, because
Speaker 4: you're right, when you're deeply entrenched in the system, it's very,
Speaker 4: very hard to see it's equilibrium from the outside. I'm
Speaker 4: a like devoted NPR listener. I go running in the
Speaker 4: morning and I pop on Morning Edition and I'm very
Speaker 4: happy to hear it. But like, even on NPR, there
Speaker 4: have been these few times where they're covering, you know,
Speaker 4: a democratic event, a Republican event, and they'll be like, well,
Speaker 4: they talked about the economy, which is a bad issue
Speaker 4: for Democrats, and I'm like, is it, Yeah, it is
Speaker 4: actually like listen to Bill Clinton, a person of whom
Speaker 4: I am not always a fan, but with Bill Clinton,
Speaker 4: who like spelled out how great the economy is built
Speaker 4: by Democrats over the last several decades have been, and
Speaker 4: it's weird to hear that coming from NPR. I think
Speaker 4: it's like their gesture towards equilibrium that doesn't actually speak
Speaker 4: to truth.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I think that's a problem with the mainstream
Speaker 1: media that we'll also get to on you know, policing,
Speaker 1: and you know, they there are these things that they
Speaker 1: just assume are bad for progressives that everyone disagrees with
Speaker 1: and they just do a very surface level pass over
Speaker 1: those things, just being like, yeah, well those things that
Speaker 1: everybody assumes about progressive ideas around this are true, and
Speaker 1: like we just have to take that into account as
Speaker 1: opposed to like digging into some ways that they can
Speaker 1: be proven not true. Right, Yeah, MPR drives me fucking crazy.
Speaker 1: All right, let's take a quick break and we're going
Speaker 1: to come back and talk about policing and Axon finally
Speaker 1: find out a little bit more about this cool company
Speaker 1: named Axon, and we're back. We're back, all right. So
Speaker 1: that you may have seen this story that AI police
Speaker 1: reports are here to save the police from doing police work. Basically,
Speaker 1: it's only a matter of time, you know, it was
Speaker 1: only a matter of time until the two of the
Speaker 1: shittier things on the planet, AI and policing joined forces.
Speaker 1: In this case, the AI helps them churn out recaps
Speaker 1: of incidents using bodycam footage, thus sparing the officers from
Speaker 1: having to pen lengthy reports. And the cops like in
Speaker 1: talking about it, the ones that they're like interviewing for
Speaker 1: these puff pieces on the technology are like, I can't
Speaker 1: write for shit, come basically an idiot and this thing
Speaker 1: made me like it. This is a quote from one
Speaker 1: of the stories. It was a better report than I
Speaker 1: could have ever written, and it was one hundred percent accurate.
Speaker 1: It flowed better, better than I could have ever written.
Speaker 1: That's first of all, it's supposed to be a rough draft, Like,
Speaker 1: it's not supposed to be replaced the reports that you're
Speaker 1: writing the post to give you a rough draft that
Speaker 1: you then like work backwards on. Nah, gotta cut corners.
Speaker 1: How it's called draft one, by the way, that's the
Speaker 1: name of the technology as draft one. And he's like,
Speaker 1: this is the goddamn best thing, best version of a
Speaker 1: report I've ever seen. EI.
Speaker 2: How important are these like police reports in terms of,
Speaker 2: you know, like what people intersect with the justice system,
Speaker 2: Like is it how vital are these and how much
Speaker 2: like how much room is there for you know, dubious
Speaker 2: shit to pop into these kinds of police reports.
Speaker 4: All Right, to be clear, they're already largely made of
Speaker 4: dubious shit. Like let's let's start from there.
Speaker 1: Okay, there we go, Thank you. Things.
Speaker 4: These things vary really really wildly from place to place.
Speaker 4: So when I started out as a public defender, I
Speaker 4: was in Santa Clara County, California, in which the police
Speaker 4: are trained to write reports. So when a thing happens
Speaker 4: and the police are there, they'll like write down what
Speaker 4: they saw, and then the second top there will write
Speaker 4: down what he saw. And then they talked to a
Speaker 4: witness and they write down with the witness set, and
Speaker 4: all in all you get this packet, which is really
Speaker 4: really helpful if we are going to believe that the
Speaker 4: legal system is in any way about finding truth, right, Like,
Speaker 4: you want to have detailed accounts from the people who
Speaker 4: are there about what they what they heard, and what
Speaker 4: they saw. I then went out to New York to
Speaker 4: work at Bronx Defenders, and that's when I learned that
Speaker 4: the NYPD is essentially like really really really good at
Speaker 4: not writing stuff down. When you get an NYPD discovery packet,
Speaker 4: it's like a whole bunch of pages, but all of
Speaker 4: the pages have the same one line copy pasted on them.
Speaker 4: It's like, at the time and place of occurrence the
Speaker 4: incident did occur.
Speaker 1: Anything, and that is when the suspected perpetrator did occur
Speaker 1: onto the occurrence and it happened that at that moment
Speaker 1: in the geographical location in question, heretofore it's just like
Speaker 1: it's ill.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we can have a whole conversation about like the
Speaker 4: police attraction to big words. They don't quite use it.
Speaker 4: You want to have a great time. They've got the
Speaker 4: defense attorney ask a cop on the stand what furtive means?
Speaker 4: They love saying every doing furtive movements, But like, what
Speaker 4: what is what is furtive to you?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 4: Indeed, this whole situation is furtive. So when you get
Speaker 4: to a place where essentially nothing is written down, you
Speaker 4: had you create a systemic problem, which is, in order
Speaker 4: for me to get any information to protect an accused
Speaker 4: person and protect their US constitutional rights, I'm going to
Speaker 4: need to create a legal process to find out more
Speaker 4: about what this CoP's claims actually are, which means I
Speaker 4: may have to demand hearings that I don't actually need,
Speaker 4: Like I might have to file suppression hearings that I
Speaker 4: don't actually need, just to get the cop on the
Speaker 4: witness stand just so I can cross examine them about
Speaker 4: what the heck they're saying they saw and did. So
Speaker 4: it's really really really inefficient, and it's bad for truth
Speaker 4: and it's bad for justice, Like it's very very bad
Speaker 4: for any semblance of accuracy in the system, and it
Speaker 4: causes massive delays. So all of this is to say
Speaker 4: bad discovery is a huge driver of our system being
Speaker 4: inept at creating any semblance of truth.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: It's also like you have to remember that police writing reports.
Speaker 4: There's kind of a double edged sword here because police
Speaker 4: get a ton of overtime out of writing reports if
Speaker 4: they make an arrest at the end of their shift
Speaker 4: and they get to sit at their desk for the
Speaker 4: next three hours like carefully inscribing documents with at the
Speaker 4: time and place of occurrence the event and again very
Speaker 4: I cursive. Yeah, they make a ton of overtime doing that.
Speaker 4: So I think I mean when I say a ton,
Speaker 4: I mean like millions and millions. Wherever you are in
Speaker 4: the country. You should google who the highest paid public
Speaker 4: employee in your jurisdiction was, and there's like a decent
Speaker 4: chance it was a cop who made a lot of
Speaker 4: overtime a few years ago. It was like a port
Speaker 4: authority cop in New York City.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, just like over a million bucks in overtime. And
Speaker 4: so when I think about what AI would do to
Speaker 4: this process, I think of a couple of things. One
Speaker 4: it's less accurate because it's not giving you the police
Speaker 4: officers impressions of what happened. It's giving you the AIS
Speaker 4: impressions of what happened. And this is even assuming the
Speaker 4: AI doesn't hallucinate, which, as we know, like AIS make
Speaker 4: stuff up all the time. So yeah, like, if you're
Speaker 4: going to totally hand over your faith to a robot
Speaker 4: to tell you what happened in a video and abandon
Speaker 4: the idea that human perception is necessary to interpret what
Speaker 4: happened in a video, you're also leaving by the side
Speaker 4: of the road things that I might need to know
Speaker 4: about the CoP's ability to perceive about what the cop
Speaker 4: was focused on. What like, For example, in a police report,
Speaker 4: let's say the whole report is written about I don't know,
Speaker 4: somebody's way of driving a car in a DUI case,
Speaker 4: and none of it's about the fact that when the
Speaker 4: person got totally furtively furtively across you know, when they
Speaker 4: get out of the car, maybe everything they did at
Speaker 4: that point was fine. Maybe they're talking, fine, walking fine,
Speaker 4: don't have any sort of symptoms of intoxication. If the
Speaker 4: entire report is about the driving, then I get to
Speaker 4: cross examine the cop On, Like why why didn't you
Speaker 4: talk about what happened after that? What's like, their omissions
Speaker 4: can be really really important to a jury to decide
Speaker 4: who's lying, who's telling the truth. You take the human
Speaker 4: perception out of that, and you take away this fundamental thing.
Speaker 4: Our system is designed to have twelve people tell you
Speaker 4: if another person is lying, right, twelve people can't tell
Speaker 4: you if an ai is lying or hallucinating. I mean,
Speaker 4: it's just it takes us even farther from the system
Speaker 4: having utility. And I get that in the system we
Speaker 4: are going to consistently prioritize the efficiency of punishment over
Speaker 4: the semblance of truth. But especially with the involvement of Axon,
Speaker 4: which has a grotesque history, I'd be more than happy
Speaker 4: to Yeah, this is like five alarm fire.
Speaker 2: Wait, you're saying a company that used to be called Taser.
Speaker 1: I like that they went from Taser obviously like trying
Speaker 1: to cover up the fact that they're the company that
Speaker 1: invented the taser that for some reason as a negative
Speaker 1: connotation with it to Axon is like so fucking aggressive.
Speaker 4: Well, it's also you know, that's a nerve. Axon is
Speaker 4: what the electrical current runs down that stimulates the next
Speaker 4: nerve cell. So it's still like we're gonna zapia. It's
Speaker 4: just we're gonna zapA for people who took ap bio.
Speaker 2: That's right exactly. It's like the version of using furtive.
Speaker 2: They're like, what if we just clashed it up?
Speaker 1: I would you throw in the additional thing? And this
Speaker 1: might be like not this might be a controversial statement,
Speaker 1: but I personally don't want to get like it. So
Speaker 1: the CEO of Axon, who is a company behind this
Speaker 1: AI technology, will talk about other stuff there behind brag
Speaker 1: that the AI spares cops from the tedious work of
Speaker 1: spending half their day doing data entry. I don't want
Speaker 1: police to be like out roaming the streets more with
Speaker 1: their guns, like ready to get like suspicious about whatever
Speaker 1: comes across their plate while they're sufficiently bored, Like I
Speaker 1: feel like this is a job that we want to
Speaker 1: have a healthy amount of like downtime where they're reflecting
Speaker 1: on what they've done and like having to think about
Speaker 1: that and account for it. And this technology seems to
Speaker 1: be designed to like what if the police were like
Speaker 1: even more gas and less breaks like built into it.
Speaker 1: What if it was just more they don't really even
Speaker 1: have to think about it. The machines there to like
Speaker 1: just document what they did. We want to beless now,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, you know exactly more frictionless policing aka
Speaker 1: just like out there fucking shit up more of the time.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: The other thing that's really interesting too is like to
Speaker 2: your point, Emily, you know, the overtime is where a
Speaker 2: lot of budgets go, and a lot of people they
Speaker 2: make their they make that money. We're like, how does
Speaker 2: that cop have that fucking car and like a boat
Speaker 2: and all this other stuff. It's like, yeah, dude, the
Speaker 2: overtime's wacky that they're never like this will actually help
Speaker 2: cut down on costs. They're more just like, dude, it's
Speaker 2: gonna help the cops, dude, so they don't have to
Speaker 2: be bored at work, you know, and like you think
Speaker 2: the way to sell it to people who might be
Speaker 2: more progressive, like guess what, man, this could actually save
Speaker 2: a lot of money because now they don't have the
Speaker 2: time to do, you know, claim as much overtime. But again,
Speaker 2: that's that's part of the appeal. So they'll just be like, no, man,
Speaker 2: it just makes their job easier so they can keep
Speaker 2: you the citizen safe, all right, next question, You're right.
Speaker 4: Though, it's also sort of exposing this terrible choice.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: We have set up policing policy so that the vast
Speaker 4: majority of police time is spent on things that most
Speaker 4: people don't actually care about. So when you ask the
Speaker 4: people what are they like scared out, it's like burglary, robbery,
Speaker 4: sexual assault, murder. And when you look at how police
Speaker 4: spend their time, the vast majority of it is on
Speaker 4: like noise complaints and unfounded calls and like somebody was
Speaker 4: peeing outside and trespassing, and sometimes on what I sort
Speaker 4: of think of as like police manufactured crime, which is
Speaker 4: like convincing someone with a substance use problem to score
Speaker 4: some drugs and also score for the undercover who will
Speaker 4: then arrest them for a felony.
Speaker 1: Right right.
Speaker 4: And the reason we don't want them on the street
Speaker 4: more is because they are out there on the street, armed, dangerous,
Speaker 4: and not investigating the things that people really care about.
Speaker 4: If you look at clearance rates, a lot of people
Speaker 4: don't know what clearance rates are, but it's the rate
Speaker 4: at which police are able to close cases. And in
Speaker 4: any jurisdiction, you can search for your local clearance rates.
Speaker 4: You'd be like, all right, how many rape cases are
Speaker 4: my local police even closing? Got most places thirteen to
Speaker 4: twenty percent. This is a whole other feminist sobeb.
Speaker 1: Ninety is totally across the entire country. There's like at
Speaker 1: least ninety that they've closed in the past decade.
Speaker 4: Seriously, and that's because it's a policy choice. It's a
Speaker 4: choice from police leadership about what they're going to dedicate
Speaker 4: resources to. And if, yeah, if the answer was, okay,
Speaker 4: they're not going to spend their time writing trespassing reports,
Speaker 4: but instead, we're going to dedicate real efforts to how
Speaker 4: about wage theft or large scale pollution of poisoning entire towns.
Speaker 4: We're going to set the cops on that. If they
Speaker 4: were going to investigate crimes of the powerful against the
Speaker 4: citizenry instead of writing reports, I might feel differently about it,
Speaker 4: But I don't think that's the plan.
Speaker 1: Yeah, never has been. Yeah, But I do just want
Speaker 1: to get a little bit more into the history of ACXON.
Speaker 1: So they were taser. They made their initial money with
Speaker 1: selling tasers and then body cams. When that became the
Speaker 1: solution to police brutality corruption, they went with body cams,
Speaker 1: and they basically have a monopoly for which they've been sued.
Speaker 1: They made four hundred and sixty one million dollars in
Speaker 1: the first quarter of twenty twenty four alone. They're also
Speaker 1: the same company that made headlines for endeavoring to solve
Speaker 1: school shootings with Taser equipped drones. That plan was paused
Speaker 1: when the majority of Axon's ethics board resigned in protests.
Speaker 1: But I think probably the most relevant and also, like
Speaker 1: I mentioned, their CEO gives speeches via remote iPad, I
Speaker 1: use an avatar man glued to the front of the
Speaker 1: motorcycle helmet.
Speaker 4: They also created excited delirium in parts that are due to.
Speaker 1: That, Yes, so I wanted to talk about that because
Speaker 1: I also think like that feels very relevant to this,
Speaker 1: because this is them getting involved in police narrative and
Speaker 1: how police justify what they're doing, and they were involved.
Speaker 1: You actually have a great video on this on your Twitter, Emily,
Speaker 1: where you talk about how about their role in the
Speaker 1: creation of and the proliferation of the term excited delirium,
Speaker 1: which is something we covered a while back, but I
Speaker 1: think it's always worth kind of refreshing people's memory of
Speaker 1: what is excited delirium.
Speaker 4: So excited delirium is a made up medical diagnosis that
Speaker 4: was originally invented in a sort of predictably racist way
Speaker 4: in Miami many decades ago, where a doctor claimed that
Speaker 4: people were dying of excited delirium, the sort of state
Speaker 4: of mania that caused them to behave really erradically and
Speaker 4: aggressively and dangerously and then they perish, They just expire.
Speaker 4: And it turned out that many of the women who
Speaker 4: are originally alleged to have excited delirium had actually been
Speaker 4: killed by a serial killer. But this idea that people
Speaker 4: could become so worked up that they are dangerous and
Speaker 4: then they die was seized upon by police because in
Speaker 4: police encounters where there is a need to justify use
Speaker 4: of force, it is very useful for them to claim
Speaker 4: that the person they used force against was dangerously worked
Speaker 4: up and had this medical thing where they became a
Speaker 4: risk to everybody's safety and they had to be taste
Speaker 4: and then oh, when they died from a heart attack,
Speaker 4: it wasn't because they got a massive vault of electricity.
Speaker 4: It was because they died of excited delirium. So excited delirium,
Speaker 4: which is not accepted by the way by doctors, like
Speaker 4: medical associations are like, that's totally not a thing. Psychiatrical
Speaker 4: associations the same deal, not a thing.
Speaker 1: But there was that one panel that you feel like,
Speaker 1: we're good here. No need to look into the panel
Speaker 1: or who funded that. I think we're good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, No need to look at how many doctors on
Speaker 4: the panel were put there by Axon to no need
Speaker 4: to connect this to no need to also think about
Speaker 4: how much this reduces Axon's liability right, because if deaths
Speaker 4: are caused by excited delirium and not caused by a taser,
Speaker 4: they're not going to have they're not going to be
Speaker 4: able to be successfully sued. But it's actually become a
Speaker 4: serious epidemic in this country of police use excited delirium
Speaker 4: to justify it, not only taser use of force, but
Speaker 4: the use of paramedics as a weapon, like we saw
Speaker 4: in the Elijah McClain case, where the police had paramedics
Speaker 4: inject Elijah McLain with a lethal dose of sedatives under
Speaker 4: this false diagnosis of excited delirium, so that that seed
Speaker 4: that Axon planted in eight in legitimizing this diagnosis has
Speaker 4: now caused many many deaths and is continuing to cause
Speaker 4: deaths around the country.
Speaker 2: Right because like they'll hit people like ketamine and stuff,
Speaker 2: and then like they like I was reading a statistic
Speaker 2: that a lot of those people end up having to
Speaker 2: be intubated because it's so severe, and they're like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, man, wait, the guy was excited. I mean
Speaker 2: then they also said the same thing about George Floyd too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was like very early on, like it's excited.
Speaker 2: I don't know what you want to say, man, let's
Speaker 2: let's just move on. So then like so axin for them,
Speaker 2: it's just more because they're sort of like, hey, we
Speaker 2: love what you guys do. Let's help out because this
Speaker 2: also helps justify the use of our products. Like is
Speaker 2: that sort of like their main motivation and like sort
Speaker 2: of pushing the excited delirium sort of craze along.
Speaker 4: I think it's also a legal shield. I mean, if
Speaker 4: I'm good to Let's say I lose a loved one
Speaker 4: who was taste and I want a sue Taser for
Speaker 4: marketing a product as non lethal that was in fact
Speaker 4: lethal to my loved one. And they say the medical
Speaker 4: examiner certificate doesn't say that your loved one died of
Speaker 4: an electric shock. The medical examiner certificate says excited delirium,
Speaker 4: So you can't actually get money from us in a
Speaker 4: civil suit or settlement. So it's it's covering them from
Speaker 4: being financially responsible for deaths they cause. And the same
Speaker 4: thing for police. I mean, if the police are getting
Speaker 4: the police could be sued in the same case, right,
Speaker 4: the pe taser for the device to the police for
Speaker 4: the action. But either way, if the EMMYS certificate says
Speaker 4: this person died of excited delirium, it's a liability.
Speaker 2: Shield, right, Yeah, and disproportionately applied to Black men.
Speaker 1: Yes a lot of the time. Yes, it's a way
Speaker 1: for the police to justify that why they're scared.
Speaker 4: It's really reliant on racist tropes right on the adultification
Speaker 4: of black children. First of all, this this child is
Speaker 4: a risk to me because I'm perceiving this child as
Speaker 4: older because of racial bias, but also the racist myth
Speaker 4: of dangerousness of black men in an excited state. I mean,
Speaker 4: this is totally playing on long term American racist tropes
Speaker 4: and sanitizing them with a fake medical diagnosis.
Speaker 2: Right yeah, Yeah, it sounds like something you'd get at
Speaker 2: like Willy Wonka's chocolate factory and excited delirium for you
Speaker 2: and you're like.
Speaker 1: Right, ooh yeah, and that's why, and that's why we
Speaker 1: had to drown him in the chocolate river. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1: Just a couple more details about is it Axin Axon.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call them Axon because that feels sufficiently violent
Speaker 1: and sinister. Their CEO is like founding story. I just
Speaker 1: like founding stories for companies and CEOs because they are
Speaker 1: like the most full of shit things in America and
Speaker 1: like most widely believed people. It was founded in the
Speaker 1: like everything was founded in a garage. No, it wasn't
Speaker 1: founded in like their rich dad's second home that was
Speaker 1: behind you his first mansion. But anyways, the CEO repeatedly
Speaker 1: told the story that he started the company because his
Speaker 1: two high school friends were shot and killed. He played
Speaker 1: high school football with them. It's just like two guys
Speaker 1: that he like knew about who were like four or
Speaker 1: five years older than him. Yeah, they weren't even he
Speaker 1: never went to high school with him. Yeah, but like
Speaker 1: it's just you know, for him, he's like and man like,
Speaker 1: that's the closest that I like kids who were at
Speaker 1: your high school before you, is like such a stretch
Speaker 1: to be like that's also they the workplace culture includes
Speaker 1: group tasings and tattooing sessions in which employees are inked
Speaker 1: with corporate insignia. And by the way, the drone thing.
Speaker 1: While they were like all right fine when their entire
Speaker 1: ethics board resigned, they did by a drone company recently.
Speaker 1: So there it seems like what well their mouth says,
Speaker 1: all right, fine, god, their their money is saying that
Speaker 1: they're full, full steam ahead on the taser drones front. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so just all sorts of wild shit there, like truly
Speaker 1: the most dystopian, like a bunch of tattoo branded like
Speaker 1: corporate people, guy with motorcycle helmet, iPad face.
Speaker 2: Like righting, like knowing murder victims. Yeah, it's all I mean,
Speaker 2: they're in a way, it all does feel very appropriate.
Speaker 2: That then it's like and now that's what I like
Speaker 2: to do is help other people lie about stuff and
Speaker 2: I just make money. And the institutional investment in this
Speaker 2: company is wild too. Oh yeah, it's like because they
Speaker 2: know they're like wait, how much they make in Q one?
Speaker 1: Okay? Yeah, yeah, but just generally I just want to
Speaker 1: like kind of get your take, Emily. There was recently
Speaker 1: this New York Times article about a The headline is
Speaker 1: what a group of posed to police blow the whistle
Speaker 1: on its founder, And it was like this AI app
Speaker 1: that was like, we're gonna re like create an alternative
Speaker 1: to the police by taking people's you know, complaints and
Speaker 1: routing them to like some of these other police alternatives.
Speaker 1: It turned out to be like the founder just like
Speaker 1: didn't have the ability to pull it off and was
Speaker 1: spending some of the money on like clothing and vacations
Speaker 1: that you know, like that I'm drifting. Sure you can
Speaker 1: find scams in any nonprofit like category, but the way
Speaker 1: the New York Times writes about it and like frames
Speaker 1: this article is that whole argument of like, oh, you
Speaker 1: think the police are bad at their jobs, Let's see
Speaker 1: what you say when you're being robbed, is like basically
Speaker 1: the whole thesis of the argument. And what it comes
Speaker 1: down to if you read the article is like one
Speaker 1: person and on the team is like I didn't want
Speaker 1: to turn him over to the police because I like,
Speaker 1: he's a black man, and I fear what would happen
Speaker 1: to him? And then another person is like, yeah, but
Speaker 1: I did turn him over to the attorney general because
Speaker 1: I know that, Like you don't usually call the police
Speaker 1: on white collar crime because they won't do shit. So anyways,
Speaker 1: like the attorney general is working on investigation. It might
Speaker 1: be civil, it might be criminal, but the way they
Speaker 1: framed it is so much like based on this bad
Speaker 1: faith reading of any criticism of the police. And it
Speaker 1: just feels generally like the tone of the mainstream media
Speaker 1: and the Democratic Party recently is like, boy, those protests
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty were you know, unpopular, let's never fight again,
Speaker 1: babe to the police, and it's like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's just so fucking frustrating, Like and meanwhile, police killings
Speaker 1: haven't have just like stayed the same or gone up,
Speaker 1: so like, where where are we with this? Like what
Speaker 1: you know, there were some programs that were funded that
Speaker 1: like worked really well, Like Denver had a controlled trial
Speaker 1: of a program that provides housing subsidies to people at
Speaker 1: risk of homelessness and found a forty percent reduction and arrests.
Speaker 1: Like there's all these cool examples they get like dashed
Speaker 1: off really quickly in a New York Times article that
Speaker 1: like has a counter point for everything that might suggest that,
Speaker 1: like there could be alternatives to our fucking terrible idea
Speaker 1: of a system that if you've been to any other
Speaker 1: country in the world, you're like, oh, wow, why do
Speaker 1: we do it the way we do it? But yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just curious to hear your thoughts on like where
Speaker 1: we're at in our conversation in the mainstream.
Speaker 4: So first of all, we're really lucky in this one way,
Speaker 4: which is that we are overrun with cool solutions. Like
Speaker 4: I'm writing a book right now, Like my book it's
Speaker 4: coming out in twenty twenty six. It's going to be
Speaker 4: a layperson's guy to the criminal legal system in all
Speaker 4: of its horribleness, and also solutions, Like I'm going to
Speaker 4: spend two thirds of the book on problems, and then
Speaker 4: I'm going to present a whole bunch of solutions. I
Speaker 4: had originally intended to write one chapter on solutions. I'm
Speaker 4: now at like page eighty eight of one hundred of
Speaker 4: all of these solutions because there are just so many
Speaker 4: fantastic things happening that have better data than the status quo,
Speaker 4: Like we don't have data strongly suggesting that police are
Speaker 4: a feasible preventative mechanism. Police can disappear problems. They can
Speaker 4: take people and put them in spaces where they are
Speaker 4: no longer visible to the general public and where they
Speaker 4: may be then violently harmed in ways that make them
Speaker 4: more likely to engage in crime in the future. So
Speaker 4: police may be sort of like temporarily making a problem
Speaker 4: disappear in a way that long term makes it worse.
Speaker 4: We have that data, have a ton of data on
Speaker 4: like the Star program in Denver, or cahoots in Oregon,
Speaker 4: or you know, other alternatives to police popping up around
Speaker 4: the country. Massive public support for this. Most voters would
Speaker 4: love to have mental health first responders, and actually most cops,
Speaker 4: if you ask them, are like, yes, I would like
Speaker 4: to also no longer be treated like I'm a trained
Speaker 4: social worker, because I'm not one, and I would like
Speaker 4: that to not be part of my job. What's really
Speaker 4: what bugs me about the perspective you just described, right,
Speaker 4: which is like, Oh, these people who don't want to
Speaker 4: use the police, what happens when they need the police? Well, okay,
Speaker 4: when we on election day hear from voters that they
Speaker 4: are scared to go to their local polling place because
Speaker 4: there are proud Boys outside the polling place, intimidating potential voters.
Speaker 4: No one is saying, well, it's your problem if you
Speaker 4: don't like the proud Boys, don't you just have a
Speaker 4: way to work out. No, we say, okay, this is
Speaker 4: a problem because people have a legitimate fear. It is
Speaker 4: a legitimate fear of an organized effort which is intimidating
Speaker 4: and threatening harm to the general public. And because the
Speaker 4: general public is afraid, we the government should probably take
Speaker 4: action to protect the general public. The blind spot with
Speaker 4: regard to when that organ harmful force is a governmental
Speaker 4: body is obscene. So by blaming people who are like, hey,
Speaker 4: I actually I'm nervous about calling the police on my
Speaker 4: black boss because black men get killed by police at
Speaker 4: ignordinate rates, and also not to mention that subject to
Speaker 4: illegitimate prosecutions and overcharging and charge stacking and longer sentences
Speaker 4: and the incredible damage even of a pretop process. And
Speaker 4: by the way, I'm saying this with great care because
Speaker 4: here's a person who's accused and has not been found
Speaker 4: guilty of anything. So really weighing, hey, do I want
Speaker 4: to subject this person to all of these risks, or
Speaker 4: is there a better way for me to seek accountability
Speaker 4: and truth without those risks of lethality, injustice, ruinousness. That's
Speaker 4: a fantastic thing for an ordinary citizen to be considering
Speaker 4: in any government that doesn't say, you know what, I'm
Speaker 4: going to consider that with you, and I'm going to
Speaker 4: acknowledge that your fears are real and the problems you
Speaker 4: highlight are real and work on these problems to come
Speaker 4: up with something better. Is abrogating its duty to the
Speaker 4: public in favor of the optics of being pro cop.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, the pro cop turn that's happened in
Speaker 2: like the Democratic Party. I mean it's not that they
Speaker 2: were anti but like, just I saw you retweet an
Speaker 2: article or a thread about how the platform changed, because
Speaker 2: I was like, I was definitely looking at a lot
Speaker 2: of the I was really interested in the foreign policy
Speaker 2: stuff that was in the platform, and I was like, oh, wow,
Speaker 2: like you just a ton of one eighties here compared
Speaker 2: to twenty twenty. And then reading sort of the excerpts
Speaker 2: on what was happening with policing was also very like, Oh,
Speaker 2: we're really embracing this thing about being like, let's not
Speaker 2: talk about the death penalty anymore. Let's I know we
Speaker 2: were talking about choke holds. Let's like really tamp that down.
Speaker 2: And it really is wild how much it's become because
Speaker 2: I think obviously this whole election is set up to
Speaker 2: be we have a prosecutor and a felon, and so
Speaker 2: because of that framing, we're going to really lean into
Speaker 2: a lot of this, like the like the the prosecutorial
Speaker 2: aspects of this and also be make it feel like yeah, man,
Speaker 2: like we're the cops again and that's okay. That was
Speaker 2: just kind of like, I mean, I was very cynical
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty when I saw this sort of like
Speaker 2: uptaking me, like, yeah, we really need to do something,
Speaker 2: and that's the most that will happen. I will say
Speaker 2: that we need to do something. But now to see
Speaker 2: like really forimally stripped out, you're like, oh, right, right, right,
Speaker 2: this was never a real concern. But I'm how do
Speaker 2: you sort of perceive that sort of like shift now
Speaker 2: or at least now that you know, even in their
Speaker 2: written platforms, it's just sort of like, yeah, those are
Speaker 2: those are those are problems, but you know we can
Speaker 2: address them at some point later.
Speaker 4: I mean, the death penalty thing, I really don't get
Speaker 4: because Harris has been against the death penalty for a
Speaker 4: lot of her career, was criticized as ag for upholding
Speaker 4: the law instead of acting on a moral objection. That
Speaker 4: she has to death penalty which is super expensive and
Speaker 4: has resulted in the death of a lot of innocent
Speaker 4: people because our system gets it wrong a lot, because
Speaker 4: of things like junk science and bad eyewin as ideas
Speaker 4: and insufficient funding of public defense. So let's just like Cavin,
Speaker 4: this is like, I don't I really don't get the
Speaker 4: Democratic Party stepping away from opposing the death penalty. I
Speaker 4: think polling on it has not changed dramatically, Like Americans
Speaker 4: are not like rabidly pro death penalty now. So I
Speaker 4: really don't get it. But here's what I'll say about
Speaker 4: the prosecutor versus pellent thing. It's being treated as a
Speaker 4: sort of vicious backing a violent force against crime, but
Speaker 4: it doesn't have to be. Prosecutors are unique among lawyers.
Speaker 4: Rarely will you hear me say nice things about prosecutors.
Speaker 4: I'm going to now say some nice things about prosecutors.
Speaker 4: They have an ethical duty to do justice. That is
Speaker 4: a unique ethical duty. No other kind of lawyer has
Speaker 4: that duty.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 4: I just got done teaching a course to some really
Speaker 4: talented law students, and in one of my exercises, I
Speaker 4: made half of them be defense lawyers and half of
Speaker 4: them be prosecutors. And I told the prosecutors in a
Speaker 4: bail argument, you have this unique ethical duty. You have
Speaker 4: to do justice, and not just justice for the peace
Speaker 4: people who were harmed in a crime or who you
Speaker 4: think of as part of the community. You have to
Speaker 4: do justice for everybody. That includes the accused person and
Speaker 4: their family and their kids and their loved ones. That
Speaker 4: includes everybody. When you talk for the people, you represent everybody.
Speaker 4: And when I told them that their assignment would be
Speaker 4: graded on how well they were able to consider everyone's
Speaker 4: needs safety and justice, they got up there on the
Speaker 4: record and did radically different things than I've ever seen
Speaker 4: a prosecutor do in real life. And largely we're thinking
Speaker 4: of restorative solutions and root causes and like how they
Speaker 4: could heal a community instead of just punishing and disappearing
Speaker 4: a person. If what prosecutor means is somebody who is
Speaker 4: enshrined with governmental authority to do justice for everyone in
Speaker 4: the community, including people who might be opposed to that
Speaker 4: very prosecutor. I think it could actually be a very
Speaker 4: powerful encapsulation of the best version of a leader, right
Speaker 4: person who's going to take this seriously and care for
Speaker 4: all of our well being and yes, stand up to
Speaker 4: abuses of people with less power, which is really what
Speaker 4: we would want prosecutors to stand up to the most.
Speaker 4: I think certainly it's not being done that way. I
Speaker 4: think the rhetoric sucks. I think half of Americans have
Speaker 4: had a loved one locked up. I just think that
Speaker 4: the rhetoric doesn't have to change. If it was made smarter.
Speaker 4: In order to be smarter, though, the policy would not
Speaker 4: have to shift towards tough on crime. It would have
Speaker 4: to shift towards evidence based, root cause thinking and solutions
Speaker 4: that shift us towards something better than our shitty status quo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and now it just feels like, now
Speaker 2: let's embrace the status quo and bring it closer and
Speaker 2: closer and closer. But yeah, that's a yeah, such a
Speaker 2: the whole time, I'm like, wow, it Like. The thing
Speaker 2: that really makes you think a lot too, is like,
Speaker 2: we have so many people who are prosecutors that ascended politics,
Speaker 2: and that's why when Kantazi Brown Jackson was like the
Speaker 2: first public defender who had sat on the Supreme Court.
Speaker 2: I was liked, is that true?
Speaker 4: Oh my god, Oh writ large the federal bench is
Speaker 4: largely prosecuted. I actually read. I wrote a really meant
Speaker 4: email today Guys like my local representative, who I love,
Speaker 4: is like moving to run for the state a different
Speaker 4: state office, and he endorsed. It's a two candidate race.
Speaker 4: I live in a place with major housing issues. There's
Speaker 4: just not enough housing for people, cost of housing or
Speaker 4: too high. And one of the candidates is a housing organizer,
Speaker 4: a local housing organizer, and the other candidate is a prosecutor.
Speaker 4: Guess who've got the entressment prosecutor? And I wrote them
Speaker 4: a note being like, like, come on, this housing is
Speaker 4: the issue of our region. If you are going to
Speaker 4: make prosecution once again a blind path to power, you
Speaker 4: at least have to justify why you are overlooking someone
Speaker 4: whose life work is in the zone we most need.
Speaker 4: And the thing that bugs me about it the most
Speaker 4: is that it tells young people. I mean, in my work,
Speaker 4: I work with public defenders all over the country, and
Speaker 4: I help them expand the practic their practice and expand
Speaker 4: what they can offer their clients, and I place a
Speaker 4: lot of new professionals, usually young people, into jobs in
Speaker 4: public defense, and as they start out their careers, I'm
Speaker 4: looking at how they think of their career trajectory. They're
Speaker 4: doing great things, like I'm going to learn all about
Speaker 4: how fucked up America's public systems are and I'm going
Speaker 4: to carry that knowledge into my own change making career.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: But to everybody else, the vast majority of young people,
Speaker 4: future lawyers, who are not like these dedicated, brilliant advocates,
Speaker 4: they think, Okay, I'll be a prosecutor for like two
Speaker 4: years and then I'll get my elected office. If I
Speaker 4: just incarcerate young black men and separate families and crush
Speaker 4: people's dreams and lives and maybe cause a few deaths,
Speaker 4: then I could be a state senter.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: I've been betted right, and I've done the work right,
Speaker 2: And it's we shouldn't.
Speaker 4: We shouldn't make change making power reliant on willingness to
Speaker 4: harm others.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, sounds like we have a lot of
Speaker 1: work to do. Emily Galvin Almansa, what a pleasure having
Speaker 1: you on the daily zeitgeist? Where can people find you?
Speaker 1: Follow you, support your work and all that good stuff.
Speaker 4: Well, if they want to support expanding and improving public
Speaker 4: defense around the country, really transforming what we mean by
Speaker 4: public defense and getting more help for poor people with
Speaker 4: housing and employment and benefits and transportation and all the
Speaker 4: things that people actually need, they can go to www.
Speaker 4: Dot Partners for Justice dot org where they can learn
Speaker 4: all about our work to support public defenders nationally. They
Speaker 4: can also catch us on Twitter at at PFJ Underscore
Speaker 4: USA or Instagram at Partners for Justice, or they can
Speaker 4: follow and I guess I should say, and they can
Speaker 4: follow my much spicy tweets at Galvin Almonza it's just
Speaker 4: my last name. Do a weekly video on things that
Speaker 4: are awful in our legal system. So if people want
Speaker 4: to get like that, like spike of outrage once a week,
Speaker 4: come on Twitter with me and I will I will
Speaker 4: give you a spike.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's not just blind outrage. You also have
Speaker 1: solutions and ideas for things to do, so I do
Speaker 1: I highly recommend. Is there work of media that you've
Speaker 1: been enjoying.
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm gonna be really nerdy, guys. There was a
Speaker 4: paper that came out a couple months ago from Vida B. Johnson,
Speaker 4: who is a lawyer, and she wrote a paper called
Speaker 4: Whom do Prosecutors Protect? And I know that mostly people
Speaker 4: are not like you know, what I'm waiting for is
Speaker 4: the next hot law paper to drop. And I'm going
Speaker 4: to just dive into that, bastard and roll it on.
Speaker 4: But it's really good and it's really accessible, and it
Speaker 4: details every single way in which the kind of problematic
Speaker 4: incentives we've been talking about prosecution as a past, the
Speaker 4: power and the inter reliance between prosecutors and police, are
Speaker 4: robbing ordinary Americans of their chance at justice. And it's
Speaker 4: a really good paper.
Speaker 1: Damn that sounds good. Amazing. Miles, Where can people find you?
Speaker 1: And what is the latest legal brief that you've been enjoyed?
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me give me a second about the legal brief.
Speaker 2: I just found this one, the Pelican Brief.
Speaker 1: Oh hell yeah too, dude.
Speaker 2: You can find me, you can find men?
Speaker 1: Is that? Oh yeah, that actually makes sense? Huh huh.
Speaker 2: Thanks for that little factoid. I'm gonna take that to
Speaker 2: the take that to the bar tonight. Umm. You can
Speaker 2: find me at Miles of Great on Twitter and Instagram.
Speaker 2: You can find Jack and I on the basketball podcast
Speaker 2: Miles and Jack got mad boosties. You could also find
Speaker 2: me talking about ninety day fiance on four to twenty
Speaker 2: day Fiance a tweet I like, oh man, so uh
Speaker 2: the you know libs of TikTok person Chiachik tweeted out
Speaker 2: a few days ago. It said, I'm looking for parents
Speaker 2: anywhere in Ohio who have kids in public schools to
Speaker 2: be eyes and ears on the ground. Your identity will
Speaker 2: remain anonymous and protected. Please DM me if you fit
Speaker 2: this criteria. Patton Oswalt quote tweeted this and said, Chaia,
Speaker 2: I am so glad you're doing this. There's a boy
Speaker 2: in our neighborhood, Elliott, a child of divorce who we
Speaker 2: think is hiding an alien in his closet with the
Speaker 2: help of his siblings Gertie and Michael.
Speaker 1: Me hitting her with that et.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that is one of my favorite tweets recent
Speaker 2: Leave Ohio public schools.
Speaker 1: Alone, y'all. That's I am. I am a product of
Speaker 1: Ohio public schools. They do. They do fine work every
Speaker 1: once in a while, all right, tweet I've been enjoying
Speaker 1: Katie at Skatie for twenty tweeted they should call that
Speaker 1: guy Edgar allan poem because of all those poems he
Speaker 1: did similarly smart yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah great. And
Speaker 1: then Brandy Jensen tweeted, I love when an it guy
Speaker 1: refers to my laptop as your machine is kind of
Speaker 1: cool here it makes it sound so cool. You can
Speaker 1: find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore Obrian. You can
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at Daily Zeigeist, where at the
Speaker 1: Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page.
Speaker 1: On website Dailyzeikeist dot com. We post our episodes and
Speaker 1: our footnotes no link off to the information that we
Speaker 1: talked about in today's episode, as well as the song
Speaker 1: that we think you might enjoy, Hey Miles with long
Speaker 1: do you think people might enjoy?
Speaker 2: I stumbled stumbled across a producer by the name of
Speaker 2: Harrison and just going through some of their tracks, and
Speaker 2: there's this one track that's really popular of his that's
Speaker 2: called Selfish High Heels and it's with him Young Bay
Speaker 2: and mac Ross eighty two ninety nine. But the sound
Speaker 2: of it is like eighties like Japanese city pop kind
Speaker 2: of stuff from the eighties, but like a little bit
Speaker 2: more like modern and futuristic. It's kind of trippy. So
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it. So this is Selfish high Heels
Speaker 2: by Young Bay and Harrison and.
Speaker 1: It also creates like the next pixeart movie about the
Speaker 1: answer Fromorphic Shoes. Yeah, and you got the you know,
Speaker 1: funky sneakers, the selfish high heels silly slippers. I don't know,
Speaker 1: you guys do the work. I waste any more of
Speaker 1: your time. The kind of high high tops like they
Speaker 1: smoke a little weed, you know.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: The DAILIESE Guy is the production of iHeartRadio. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you your favorite shows. That is
Speaker 1: going to do it for us this week. We are
Speaker 1: back on Tuesday after Labor Day to tell you what
Speaker 1: was trending over the long weekend and we will talk
Speaker 1: to you all then. Bye.
Speaker 4: By