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Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. This is the best of with Klay,

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Speaker 1: Travis and Buck Sexton.

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Speaker 2: We bring in now my friend Sage Steele, who has

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Speaker 2: recently left ESPN. We got a bunch to dive into

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Speaker 2: with her. But Sage, let's start there with the idea

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Speaker 2: that Trump. I'm sure you've probably seen that news that

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Speaker 2: Trump might skip the debate and instead do an interview

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Speaker 2: with Tucker Carlston at the same time.

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Speaker 3: How does that strike you? What do you think of that?

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's just exactly what we should have expected

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Speaker 4: the whole time, right, especially for it to air at

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Speaker 4: the exact same time. I mean, listen, I think for

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Speaker 4: those of us who follow politics, it would have been fascinating,

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Speaker 4: would have been great TV for him to join. But

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Speaker 4: I mean, strategically, it's probably really smart. And oh, by

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Speaker 4: the way, it's August of twenty three, he's got time

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Speaker 4: for that. It just made me smile when I heard

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Speaker 4: you sharing the news just there, because it's exactly what

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Speaker 4: we should have expected.

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Speaker 3: All right. Let's uh.

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Speaker 2: I bet a lot of our audience will know who

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Speaker 2: you are. Certainly we've been friends for a long time.

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Speaker 2: But I want for people because this is obviously a

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Speaker 2: different audience than just a traditional sports audience. Yeah, you

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Speaker 2: have been with ESPN for how long? What is your background?

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Speaker 2: How would you describe yourself to Let's be a little bit,

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Speaker 2: a little bit braggadocious here the biggest audience in all

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Speaker 2: of radio that might not all know you already, Sage,

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Speaker 2: Who are you and what's your background?

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Speaker 4: My favorite thing about you is your humility.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I started ed ESPN in February of two thousand

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Speaker 4: and seven. My kids were eleven months all at the time,

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Speaker 4: eleven months, two and four, and now there's seventeen, nineteen

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Speaker 4: and twenty one. And the older two just got back

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Speaker 4: to college at High Point University in North Carolina for

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Speaker 4: their sophomore and junior years. And my youngest is the

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Speaker 4: senior in high school and she's celebrating because set the

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Speaker 4: house to herself, no arguments about the with their siblings.

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Speaker 4: And you know what, my kids, my parents, my family,

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Speaker 4: That's what I'm all about. That is what has always

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Speaker 4: driven me, especially over the last couple of years when

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Speaker 4: things have kind of gone in directions that I never

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Speaker 4: could have dreamt of. But I mean the background background,

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Speaker 4: and I'll just be quick is yeah, I'm a proud

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Speaker 4: Army bratt. My dad is a retired Army colonel. He

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Speaker 4: just turns seventy seven years old. And the reason I

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Speaker 4: love sports and had this crazy dream of being a

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Speaker 4: sportscaster back in the eighties. I mean, I'm fifty, so

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Speaker 4: back in the eighties when women weren't doing this. It's

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Speaker 4: because my dad and his athleticism and his history. That's

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Speaker 4: what drove me out of a daddy's girl. Still am

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Speaker 4: and he I brag about my dad because he won't.

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Speaker 4: But he broke the color barrier at West Point, the

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Speaker 4: first black man to ever play varsity football there, and

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Speaker 4: he was an All American tight end way back then

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Speaker 4: at six six and a half up in the sixties.

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Speaker 4: He was massive, and he was principled, and he is

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Speaker 4: an incredible man and my hero, and he and the

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Speaker 4: principles that he instilled in me and my brothers, that's

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Speaker 4: what drives me, and that's what really keeps me strong,

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Speaker 4: even with things that I never thought I'd ever be

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Speaker 4: talking about or doing.

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Speaker 2: That is a fantastic story about your dad. I know

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Speaker 2: we have a lot of West Point grads and also

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Speaker 2: people who were certainly in the Armed forces today that

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Speaker 2: are listening to us, and that is a fabulous story. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so you started at ESPN in February of two thousand

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Speaker 2: and seven. It doesn't feel like that long ago. But

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Speaker 2: I'm curious what you saw in terms of the trajectory

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Speaker 2: of ESPN, which I think it's fair to say back

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Speaker 2: in February of two thousand and seven, I'll be honest,

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Speaker 2: I mean I would have said, Hey, that's just a

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Speaker 2: sports network. You go there to find out who won

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Speaker 2: a game. You go there to find out who got traded,

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Speaker 2: who's signing as a free agent. You put on Sports Center,

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Speaker 2: You kick back, and you have a beer, and you

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Speaker 2: and joy whatever the nightly news was associated with sports.

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Speaker 2: I bet that's probably what you found it to be.

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Speaker 2: Like in February of two thousand and seven, you just

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Speaker 2: left ESPN and announced you were leaving this week. How

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Speaker 2: did things change from February of two thousand and seven

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Speaker 2: to you deciding that you wanted to leave and what

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Speaker 2: you said was a dream job that you had at ESTE?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I play. Everyone who knows me knows

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Speaker 4: that this absolutely was my dream. And since I was

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Speaker 4: eleven years old and announced I wanted to be a sportscaster,

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Speaker 4: to the shock of my parents because I was like

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Speaker 4: this super shy, quiet little girl, and they're like, really,

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Speaker 4: when I do this, then you might have to talk

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Speaker 4: every once in a while and not hide between our legs.

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Speaker 4: So they listen. They watched me every single day that

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Speaker 4: they could over the last sixteen and a half years

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Speaker 4: at ESPN and kind of just in awe because of

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Speaker 4: how I really had to transform as a person to

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Speaker 4: live out this dream and get over that shyness. And

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Speaker 4: I still have it sometimes. I just know how to

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Speaker 4: flip that switch pretty well. Back then, in two thousand

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Speaker 4: and seven, it was just a different world. Social media

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Speaker 4: wasn't a thing. We were strongly encouraged EDDIESPN to get

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Speaker 4: onto Twitter. I think I thought the other day when

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Speaker 4: I was changing my bio at the top of my

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Speaker 4: Twitter page that April nine, I think is when I

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Speaker 4: joined and there wasn't a thing called Twitter and social media.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't I wasn't part of my Space

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Speaker 4: or any of that crap because I was too old

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Speaker 4: for that at the time. I think. I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I was old and married and busy. Social media has

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Speaker 4: changed everything, because I think back then it really was

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Speaker 4: must be TV. People really did need to come to

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Speaker 4: us for the news at breaking news, you know, and

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Speaker 4: it would we would promote it on the radio during

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Speaker 4: the sports and our updates during whatever radio show there

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Speaker 4: was probably Colin Coward show and it's like watch sports

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Speaker 4: and Art six pm or whatever it was. So times

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Speaker 4: have just changed. The talent group has changed. Stuart Scott

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Speaker 4: my late great, dear friend, you know, he was Stuart

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Speaker 4: than I man. We had came in, we had all

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Speaker 4: of the great Dan Patrick was leaving. I think right

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Speaker 4: as I was arriving. I remember seeing him in the

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Speaker 4: stairway once and like hyperventilating because I'm like, that's Dan Patrick.

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Speaker 4: It was a different time. It was a beautiful time there,

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Speaker 4: and I remember being scared of death to walk in there.

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Speaker 4: And it really is an incredible place with a campus

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Speaker 4: that truly is like a college campus with some awesome

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Speaker 4: people that I mean it when I say this, I

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Speaker 4: am sad because of so many great, great people and

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Speaker 4: great experiences that I had and I have zero regrets.

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Speaker 4: But it certainly has changed, as I think every network

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Speaker 4: has changed since two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so do you remember, and for people who don't

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Speaker 2: know you got suspended because you went on Jay Cutler's podcast.

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Speaker 2: Jay Cutler's a friend of mine. He lives here in Nashville,

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Speaker 2: former NFL quarterback, and basically you said, hey, I don't

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Speaker 2: think they should have mandated the COVID shot. You had

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Speaker 2: some other things to say, but I want to start

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Speaker 2: before we get to that. Do you remember a moment

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Speaker 2: in time where you thought, Hey, this doesn't just feel

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Speaker 2: like a sports network anymore. It feels very political too.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember a moment in time or an event

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Speaker 2: that occurred where you sort of thought, hey, looking back,

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Speaker 2: this is the line of demarcation, this is when things changed.

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Speaker 4: I do think it was kind of a gradual process.

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Speaker 4: I do. I think it kind of steels like it

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Speaker 4: snuck up on us. Listen through the years, we always

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Speaker 4: remember Andy Katz, who is so great one of our

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Speaker 4: layoffs that really hurt us back. I think he was

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Speaker 4: part of the twenty seventeen layoff. But college basketball reporter

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Speaker 4: and insider. He's an awesome human and really damn get

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Speaker 4: at his job. And every single year he came up

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Speaker 4: with the idea to go to the White House and

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Speaker 4: have Barack Obama do the bracketology and out the brackets

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Speaker 4: because Obama was such a basketball fan, and it felt okay.

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Speaker 4: Then remember saying, wait a minute, Trump liked sports too,

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Speaker 4: Why why aren't we Why aren't we going to the

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Speaker 4: White House? You know with college football stuff? I don't know,

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Speaker 4: he used to own a football team, right or the

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Speaker 4: XFL like I USFL. I really thought, well, why aren't

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Speaker 4: we doing it now? And I remember asking that question,

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Speaker 4: and you know, I didn't really get answers, so to

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Speaker 4: me it felt gradual. I think during the Trump term

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Speaker 4: things really changed. And again I know that we aren't

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Speaker 4: the only place. It changed everywhere, but it seemed like

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Speaker 4: that's when it became okay in our country to just

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Speaker 4: outwardly bash the administration. And I get it, and that's

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Speaker 4: what people's rights are, and that's something I will always

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Speaker 4: stand up for. It's just if you did bash or

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Speaker 4: say something critical during the Obama administration, it was completely unacceptable.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And it's interesting because and I want to go to

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Speaker 2: the COVID shot in particular, and I bet you would

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Speaker 2: agree if someone had come out and said, oh, Hun

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Speaker 2: Disney should mandate the COVID shot, they would have not

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Speaker 2: gotten criticized at all. Probably would have gotten praised. You

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Speaker 2: said the opposite, and what was the reaction when you

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Speaker 2: went on that podcast? And then you also said your

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Speaker 2: uh as you mentioned your dad was I think the

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Speaker 2: first black football player at West Point, your mom is white,

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Speaker 2: your mixed race like Barack Obama. You also talked about

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Speaker 2: that your experience is just as valid as his experience,

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Speaker 2: and ESPN just basically said, O Sage Steele, you can't

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Speaker 2: have the opinions that you shared, even though you shared

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Speaker 2: them out of work. I think it's such a fascinating

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Speaker 2: dynamic of what happened to you, and it is fascinating.

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Speaker 4: That's a word to use, for sure. That's one that

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Speaker 4: I have used others, but that one works. I you're right,

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Speaker 4: and that's what I said a million times that if

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Speaker 4: I had said, shame on all these anti vaxxers. You

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Speaker 4: apparently don't care about your neighbors and your coworkers and

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Speaker 4: your or you're gonna you know, horror mothers and kill others,

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Speaker 4: and how selfish you are, because that's what was being

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Speaker 4: told to people like me who just questioned it. I

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Speaker 4: was never against the vaccine. I was against the mandate

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Speaker 4: or being forced to take it or anything. I mean,

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Speaker 4: and it's kind of consist and I hadn't given my

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Speaker 4: kids a flu shot in probably a decade, not because

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Speaker 4: I had really researched flu shots frankly, more because I forgot.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I'm an imperfect mother in more ways than one.

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Speaker 4: They'll tell you that I've forgotten. And I was like, wow,

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Speaker 4: and I've gone for several years now and haven't ever

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Speaker 4: gotten six So just keep it going if I don't

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Speaker 4: have to put more shots. And so it really came organically,

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Speaker 4: but to me, I was very apprehensive just from the

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Speaker 4: basic research that I did because I didn't go too

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Speaker 4: deep on it, you didn't have to, but to see

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Speaker 4: how quickly it was being forced the vaccine and it

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Speaker 4: became political. That's when I was like, wait a minute,

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Speaker 4: this makes me uncomfortable and I just want to wait.

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Speaker 4: Can I just wait a little bit longer, give me

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Speaker 4: six months to make sure that we totally know the

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Speaker 4: effect of this vaccine, knowing that the FDA usually takes

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Speaker 4: what sixty to nine years on average to approve vaccines

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Speaker 4: and this is six months. So I had a problem

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Speaker 4: with it, and especially with my kids, who you know

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Speaker 4: that the goldpost kept moving with it right. First it

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Speaker 4: was kids under twenty, you know, don't worry about it.

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Speaker 4: You're fine, you're healthy, you don't have to worry about it.

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Speaker 4: And then the age kept lowering, and I just the

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Speaker 4: inconsistencies made me question it, and so I listened. I

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Speaker 4: waited to the very I waited till that day, the

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Speaker 4: very last day I could have gotten shot in order

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Speaker 4: to be to have followed the rules and to be

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Speaker 4: fully vaxed by the I think it was a September

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Speaker 4: thirtieth deadline, and I waited till the last second because

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Speaker 4: it's Clay. I didn't want to do it, and I

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Speaker 4: wasn't going to do it. I was going to take

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Speaker 4: a chance, and I guess maybe get fired. I didn't know.

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Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, I I have

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Speaker 4: three kids at the time, one was in college, and

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Speaker 4: you know, financially, I'm divorced, and financially it's all on

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Speaker 4: me one hundred percent. So I couldn't and I did

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Speaker 4: what I had to do, despite being disgusted with myself

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Speaker 4: or caving is the way I viewed myself at that point,

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Speaker 4: and giving in to what I believed, especially being forced

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Speaker 4: to do something to my body so on the I

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Speaker 4: did what I had to do at that time, and

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Speaker 4: I just prayed that if something came as a vaccine,

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Speaker 4: you know, fine, let it be me. Just don't let

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Speaker 4: it be my kids, which they're not vaccinated. But trust

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Speaker 4: me when I say I didn't take it lightly, and

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Speaker 4: I did. I ran literally from getting the damn shot,

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Speaker 4: ran home to do the podcast with Jay that I

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Speaker 4: almost missed because I was struggling so much with taking

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Speaker 4: the shot itself. And I came on and I had

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Speaker 4: the bandit on my shoulder and I wasn't thinking about it,

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Speaker 4: and just we started talking and he asked, and I

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Speaker 4: wouln't reready to answer the question. I complied, I did

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Speaker 4: what I needed to do, and that was the other thing.

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Speaker 4: It's like I complied among the rules, and I can

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Speaker 4: have an opinion, because, like you said, if I'd had

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Speaker 4: the other opinions, I probably wouldn't have heard from anybody.

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Speaker 2: Do you have ever believed when you started at ESPN

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Speaker 2: back in February of two thousand and seven that saying

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Speaker 2: men who identify as women shouldn't be image champions would

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Speaker 2: be considered a controversial, controversial opinion to have anywhere, but

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Speaker 2: much less at a sports network, and for you and

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Speaker 2: Sam Ponder in particular, to be called bigots by other

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Speaker 2: women who work at ESPN for having that opinion. What

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Speaker 2: does that say about the perspective of ESPN when you

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Speaker 2: get suspended for questioning the COVID shot and other co

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Speaker 2: workers can call you a bigot for not believing that

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Speaker 2: men who pretend to be women and should be women's

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Speaker 2: champions and nothing at all happens to them.

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Speaker 4: Well, there's a couple of different topics there. With the

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Speaker 4: transgender I wouldn't believed it two years ago, much less

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Speaker 4: than two thousand and seven. I still can't believe it,

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Speaker 4: And that's why I really won't even bother. I'm happy

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Speaker 4: to have discussions in conversations that's actually that to me

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Speaker 4: is what is missing in this country right now is

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Speaker 4: people are either afraid or unwilling to have conversations about

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Speaker 4: important topics. But this, to me is useless because it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 4: And for all those people who preach science, especially over

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Speaker 4: the last couple of years, they're conveniently ignoring science right now.

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Speaker 4: So this is just a ridiculous topic to me, And

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Speaker 4: I knew that when I tweeted about it. That it

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Speaker 4: would not be appreciated by some. But you get to

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Speaker 4: the point where you cannot stay. For me, I couldn't

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Speaker 4: stay silent anymore, especially about something that is so important.

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Speaker 4: I have been on record for years, not obviously just

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Speaker 4: as a woman in a man's world, but as a

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Speaker 4: woman fighting for other women and young women, especially a

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Speaker 4: mother with two daughters and a son who I want to,

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Speaker 4: you know, really raise as a man and to respect women.

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Speaker 4: And women are equal and we can do the same

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Speaker 4: things you can, as far as you know, what we

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Speaker 4: are worth, what we can do professionally, so many things,

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Speaker 4: and so to have this as a thing again. I

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Speaker 4: used to host the espnW Summit, which I was so

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Speaker 4: proud of for the first ten years eleven years of

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Speaker 4: its existence, and on that stage, all I would do

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Speaker 4: was help uplift women and let's have these conversations and

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Speaker 4: why are we making less here or there? Why are

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Speaker 4: we doing fewer women's highlights and certain parts of our network,

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Speaker 4: like let's be equal, And so for all of those

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Speaker 4: women to be silent right now, I'm like, where are you?

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Speaker 4: Where are you? Ladies? Which one is it? Either you

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Speaker 4: support women as a whole or you don't and you

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Speaker 4: can't pick or choose. I think the funniest part to me,

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Speaker 4: and it really made me laugh, is when Megan Rappino

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Speaker 4: called me out as well as Martina Nevertilova and Dave Chappelle,

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Speaker 4: and I was like, that's awesome company. I love Chappelle.

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Speaker 4: As far as our opinions on biological men, forget biological

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Speaker 4: men playing women's sports, and that by standing up for

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Speaker 4: women that I'm promoting violence against the transgender community, I

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Speaker 4: just can't. That's why I mean, I don't even bother

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Speaker 4: responding to some of that because it's not worth it.

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Speaker 4: So I'm sad where we are. I'm grateful that my

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Speaker 4: girls are no longer really playing competitive sports because I

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Speaker 4: would be. I would be a nuisance to these people.

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Speaker 3: Can you stick with us a little bit of time.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what you've got, but I got a

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Speaker 2: couple more questions for you, Clay.

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Speaker 4: You know what I'm doing. I'm sitting in a parking

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Speaker 4: lot of a coffee shop in Connecticut, because apparently this

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Speaker 4: is what unemployed people do, is you sit at a

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Speaker 4: coffee shop and send one hundred emails all day. I

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Speaker 4: haven't been an onployd in thirty five years, so I'm like,

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Speaker 4: I can sit as long as you want here.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back in Clay Travis Sexton Show. Appreciate Sage Steele

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Speaker 2: hanging with us. And I wanted to hit this because

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Speaker 2: I know you told Megan Kelly this, but I just

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Speaker 2: saw you share it, and I do think it's an

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Speaker 2: important message for a lot of people out there.

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Speaker 3: You as you talked about it with us earlier. Your

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Speaker 3: dad is black.

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Speaker 2: He was one of the first, if not the first,

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Speaker 2: football player at West Point for Army. You tweeted this.

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Speaker 2: For years, I've been called a sellout because I identify

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Speaker 2: as biracial, or that I'm quote not black enough for

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Speaker 2: all those biracial kids out there. I pray you don't

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Speaker 2: wait as long as I did to realize that you

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Speaker 2: don't have to accept that hypocritical BS. You are perfect

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Speaker 2: the way you are, and please don't let anyone tell

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Speaker 2: you otherwise. There are a lot of kids out there

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Speaker 2: of all different backgrounds. I just want to give you

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Speaker 2: an opportunity. That's incredibly well said, but it feels like

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Speaker 2: and you can tell me if I'm wrong or not

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Speaker 2: that inside of ESPN, and I think this is happening

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Speaker 2: all over the country in many different organizations. That identity

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Speaker 2: politics requires people to say, Oh, I'm on this team,

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Speaker 2: Oh I'm on that team. Did you feel like you

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Speaker 2: were being judged for not being quote black enough by

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Speaker 2: some employees who were black at ESPN?

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Speaker 4: I have felt that way for years, regardless of where

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Speaker 4: I've been or where I've worked. But it's pretty well

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Speaker 4: documented that I was treated differently because I'm literally quote

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Speaker 4: not black enough. There's a history about it. I know

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Speaker 4: you all have written about it at out kick in

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Speaker 4: the past. I will say one thing about that tweet.

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Speaker 4: I should I should have changed it. I should have

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Speaker 4: been more aware of my wording because someone on Twitter

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Speaker 4: pointed out to me that I shouldn't use the word

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Speaker 4: I identify as biracial because I am by racial period.

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Speaker 4: That's yeah, who I am. My mother's half white, as

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Speaker 4: give me to me. My mother's have Irish, had Italian

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Speaker 4: white skiery like the most beautiful woman you'll ever meet.

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Speaker 4: Get out of her way too, she will take you out.

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Speaker 4: And my dad is black and I am by racial,

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Speaker 4: So it's not even an identity right With all the

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Speaker 4: identity stuff we've been talking about in this country lately,

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Speaker 4: so I need to be more aware and more specific.

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Speaker 4: I could not be more proud of who I am.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it goes back to when I was a

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Speaker 4: little girl. The difference is, I told Megan, is that

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Speaker 4: in the military, it truly is the most diverse, beautiful

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Speaker 4: upbringing I think for a kid. And granted I lived

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Speaker 4: in all over the world. By the time I was eleven,

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Speaker 4: I lived in four countries. I didn't really have a home.

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Speaker 4: I still don't know where home is. It's certainly not

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Speaker 4: going to be at a kit forever. But I didn't

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Speaker 4: have that. But what I had as an incredible family unit,

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Speaker 4: no matter where we were in the world, that said

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Speaker 4: you are beautiful the way you are, and we are steels,

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Speaker 4: and we are good, and we are together. And it

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Speaker 4: also is very sheltered though, because the military is so diverse.

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Speaker 4: So I didn't experience this negativity and this hatred until

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Speaker 4: I left that, you know, and late high school early

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Speaker 4: college is when I really start to feel it and

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Speaker 4: really felt like I was different. So I was really sheltered,

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Speaker 4: I guess, and maybe I'm late to the party, but

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Speaker 4: I'm grateful for that upbringing. It was awesome as well

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Speaker 4: as just loving our country period, especially while living in

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Speaker 4: other countries. But I feel it amongst my peers at

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Speaker 4: ESPN a thousand percent. And I think that that's what

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Speaker 4: really breaks my heart because you know, it comes from

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Speaker 4: the same people who preach about diversity and tolerance and

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Speaker 4: acceptance and inclusion. But what they're doing to their own

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Speaker 4: quite often not all, just a very loud, vocal minority

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Speaker 4: is exactly what they're preaching against. And that is why

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Speaker 4: I had to stay a couple of years ago, like

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Speaker 4: enough is enough. You can't preach one thing and practice another.

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Speaker 4: The problem is is everybody's been allowed to because if

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Speaker 4: you call someone on it, then you are racist, and

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Speaker 4: including if that's me, and I've been told that as

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Speaker 4: I'm a racist, and the names on Twitter I told

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Speaker 4: Megan yesterday. I mean, it's amazing the hatred that has

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Speaker 4: common people threatening my life, my kids lives. You know.

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Speaker 4: One time, Clay, my mother, after one of these you

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Speaker 4: know instances, was on my Instagram and she called me

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Speaker 4: and she's crying and she's a hard ass. Me. My

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Speaker 4: mom doesn't cry, but she was crying and she's like,

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Speaker 4: they please go through, please go through and delete all

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Speaker 4: those I mean, there were thousands of hateful comments wishing

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Speaker 4: me harm, amongst other things. She says, just delete them,

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Speaker 4: and in that moment, I was going to go do it,

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Speaker 4: because I don't want my mom to hurt. As a mother,

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Speaker 4: I can't imagine what that would feel like. She's a

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Speaker 4: mama bear, just like I am. I would take people out.

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Speaker 4: And she tried, and I said, Mom, I can't delete

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Speaker 4: those comments as much as I would like to, because

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Speaker 4: everyone hits me hard. If I delete those, it would

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Speaker 4: be like it isn't happening, And this is real. This

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Speaker 4: is the reality for me and millions of other people

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Speaker 4: who are just trying to be proud of their heritage

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Speaker 4: no matter what it is, and mine happens to be

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Speaker 4: as a biracial woman. And so I chose at that

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Speaker 4: moment it was in twenty seventeen. Actually I'm like, I

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Speaker 4: will not delete any of this ever, because it's real

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Speaker 4: and it helps remind me of how far we have

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Speaker 4: to go, and that if I continued to live in

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Speaker 4: fear of talking about it, then I would actually be

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Speaker 4: part of the problem. So there's a real beauty and

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Speaker 4: no longer caring what other people think, and that's taken me. Okay,

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Speaker 4: I'm fifty. I'll be fifty one in November. It's taken

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Speaker 4: me about forty seven years. And so that's what I

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Speaker 4: think I'm most proud of myself, for which I wouldn't.

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Speaker 4: I don't usually talk about why I'm proud of myself,

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Speaker 4: but because I dropped that feeling of needing to be

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Speaker 4: liked by everybody, it was devastating, especially people that you

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Speaker 4: think are your friends or people that you think support

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Speaker 4: you at work, you know, within the organization, the bosses,

432
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,959
Speaker 4: et cetera. But once I let go of that and

433
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 4: realize that being being silent is being part of the problem,

434
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 4: it was really freeing. It's something I have to work

435
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,439
Speaker 4: on every day. And I think that that's what I'm

436
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 4: most proud of because I know now that by speaking out,

437
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,400
Speaker 4: I'm making a little bit of a difference here or there.

438
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 4: And I feel like now, like if I've ever questioned

439
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 4: why I chose this profession or why I'm still standing

440
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 4: after so many things that are held of a lot

441
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 4: more important than what's happened at with my career, like

442
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 4: with my family and with my father's cancers, I know

443
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 4: that this is the reason why. Because I'm no longer afraid,

444
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 4: and it's time that people start to stand up because

445
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 4: if you don't, you can't complain about the issues.

446
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 2: In my opinion, we're talking to Say Steele, formerly of ESPN.

447
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 2: Is it true that you weren't allowed to be involved

448
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 2: in a George Floyd special on ESPN because other ESPN's

449
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 2: employees said you weren't black enough.

450
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's that was a painful thing. And

451
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,719
Speaker 4: you know, I would say that if you look at

452
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 4: the statement that those people involved and that made after

453
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 4: the news broke, then I think that that says it all.

454
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 4: There was certainly not a denial, and it went in

455
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 4: a complete opposite direction the statement could. So you know what,

456
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 4: I'm glad it happened. It woke me up. It woke

457
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 4: me up, and I thought, oh my gosh, even when

458
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 4: you try to do things the right way, and I

459
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 4: am I'm imperfect. Ask my three kids, ask my parents,

460
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 4: asked my best friend. You know, that's my dog, for

461
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 4: God's sake, Like, I have a long way to go

462
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,080
Speaker 4: in every aspect of my life, but I know, oh

463
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 4: that I have always led with kindness and tried to

464
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 4: treat people as I want to be treated. That is

465
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 4: part of how I was raised and part of what

466
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 4: I think God wants us to do. So it was

467
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 4: a great lesson, like, wow, even when you're true to yourself,

468
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 4: which is what everybody preaches, I learned that it doesn't

469
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 4: necessarily matter if you don't go along with a certain narrative.

470
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,199
Speaker 4: And that was painful. But I wouldn't I'd swear to

471
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 4: you I wouldn't change it because it opened my eyes

472
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 4: and it kind of brought up a little bit of

473
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 4: a rage in me, like something I didn't know that

474
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 4: I had. And I'm like, this is inherently wrong and

475
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 4: like I said, hypocritical. If you're preaching one thing, you

476
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 4: got to practice it, and that in itself is racist.

477
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 4: What does it mean to not be black enough? What

478
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 4: the hell does that mean? I don't know too many

479
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 4: other cultures that do that to each other. Within the

480
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,479
Speaker 4: own community. I've been traded, according to Twitter, I've been

481
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 4: treated so many times back to the white camp from

482
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 4: the black camp. They let go of me a long

483
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 4: time ago, I've been told. So I hope they I

484
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,439
Speaker 4: hope they got a team's ransom in that trade. But

485
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 4: I don't know.

486
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 2: But isn't the goal stage that every single individual white, Black, Asian,

487
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 2: Hispanic or mixed race backgrounds of that group. Isn't the

488
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 2: goal that everybody should be able to stand on their

489
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 2: own individual belief. Shouldn't that be what we aspire to.

490
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 2: Isn't that what you want for your kids? It's certainly

491
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 2: what I want for my kids.

492
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 4: That's all I want. And to me, that's actually what

493
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 4: this is about. For me, what standing up was all

494
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,239
Speaker 4: about diversity. I remember speaking about this when I went

495
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 4: back to my alma mater to speak, probably in like

496
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 4: twenty ten. I went to Indiana. I'm a croud Hoosier

497
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 4: al and I remember something had happened, and I remember thinking, oh,

498
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 4: my gosh, diversity, But it does if it doesn't begin

499
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 4: with diversity of thought and this other diversity DEI stuff

500
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 4: doesn't even matter. De I wasn't even a thing back then.

501
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 4: That wasn't an acronym for anything. You know. Now it's

502
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 4: certainly is. I think they keep adding letters and plus

503
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 4: and minus signs to it. I don't know, but like

504
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 4: it begins and ends with diversity of thought, And if

505
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 4: we can't accept others for their opinions, then why is

506
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 4: anything else going to matter. It's funny because we really

507
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 4: do choose to focus on DEEI throughout corporate America and everywhere,

508
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 4: and that global corporate decisions are made based on that.

509
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 4: How about the diversity of thought was okay? Well, hey,

510
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 4: they want to identify as a woman today or a

511
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 4: man today versus yesterday, or versus certainly how they were born.

512
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 4: We're okay with that, but not with that diversity of

513
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 4: thought of how I want to celebrate what I am,

514
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 4: which is a biracial woman who had the best upbringing,

515
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 4: the two most loving parents. In October, they're marriage fifty

516
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 4: two years when nobody gave them a shot, including their family.

517
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 4: If my mom's parents disowned her because she was marrying

518
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 4: a black man. So that's why I have perspectives, play

519
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 4: like my staff has certainly tested me, and you know, okay,

520
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 4: made some headlines for a minute, it is nothing compared

521
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 4: to what my parents went through. And by the way,

522
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 4: they chose that in nineteen seventy, coming out the Civil

523
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 4: Rights era when there are a lot more serious issues.

524
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 4: I mean, you think about what was going on with

525
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 4: the Civil Rights era was Vietnam, and my parents are

526
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 4: so courageous. So sometimes I just just laugh because I'm like,

527
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 4: I have. I'm nothing. That's why I'm not afraid anymore,

528
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 4: because I know that there's bigger things than people in

529
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 4: my family. I have endured so much more so it

530
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 4: makes it easier now to stand up. It just took

531
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 4: me a long time. Better late than never, I guess.

532
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: I want to send you off with a nice story

533
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: for this weekend. I'm going to talk about any shark

534
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: attacks or any crazy stuff that's going on out there.

535
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: And this is reported on by the Daily Mail. So

536
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: this guy, Sean Warner, is a first time fantasy author.

537
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: He's written his debut fantasy novel. This guy was in Arlington,

538
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: Texas for this video. I'm trying to find the name

539
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: of the book here so I could say it. But

540
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: he was sitting there and waited, do we have it?

541
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: And we see Lee Howard and the Ghosts of Wait,

542
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: what is it called? Lee Howard and the Ghost of

543
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: Simmons Pierce Manner. Okay, that's this guy's debut fantasy novel.

544
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: I have not read it. I do not know if

545
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: it is any good, but this is a nice story,

546
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: I thought. So this guy is sitting there doing a

547
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: book signing at a little store in Arlington, Texas, and

548
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: a TikTok creator and YouTube creator, and some of these

549
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: TikTok and YouTube creators have millions and millions and millions

550
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: of fans. Took a video of this guy because he

551
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: was doing his book signing and it was empty. There

552
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: was no one there asking for his book to be

553
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: signed or buying his book. So he's sitting at a

554
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: table at a bookstore alone with his debut fantasy novel

555
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: that no one is coming by to sign or to see. Well,

556
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: apparently this TikTok star read shared this clip of Sean

557
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: Warner fifty eight years old, who seemed like a very

558
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: nice guy, very enthusiastic about his first, first ever fantasy

559
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: genre novel. Put it on and now it has been viewed.

560
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 4: What was it?

561
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: What did I see here? Fifteen million times? Something like that,

562
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,959
Speaker 1: And with that fifteen seventeen point four million times, actually,

563
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: with that seventeen point four million views. First time author

564
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: Sean Warner and his Lee Howard and the Ghost of

565
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: Simmons Pierce Manner now has a little bestseller on his

566
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: heads because so many people went and bought his book

567
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: because they felt for the guy. You know, he's at

568
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: first time author, he's almost sixty years old. He's put

569
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: his hard and his soul into this, and he's sitting

570
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: there alone and seemed like a nice guy, and so

571
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: they bought his books. I just thought that was a

572
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: very nice story.

573
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 3: I have to say.

574
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: I also think back to the days, man, I like

575
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: fantasy genre novels. Generally, I feel like I don't have

576
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: the time to read them because I'm reading so many

577
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: other things these days. I'm working on a book. You know,

578
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: Clay's got a book coming out next month. I'll have

579
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: a book that will be coming out next summer, and

580
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: I'm hard at work on that book all the time,

581
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: and a lot of it is reading abow twenty five

582
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five other books in research for the book

583
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: that I'm writing. I'm spending a lot of time writing

584
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: it too, So that means that I don't get to

585
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: dive into things. But man, I think if you can't,

586
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: I think fantasy is important. I think that fiction fantasy,

587
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: same basic thing. It's important for your mind. And I

588
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: think back to some of my favorite fiction slash fan

589
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: fantasy novel I mean, Dune is an amazing, I would

590
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: say amazing literary work, and the recent movie was actually

591
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: pretty good too. I know the second part of it's

592
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: coming out soon. Clearly, The Lord of the Rings is

593
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: one of the most important for a lot of us

594
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: in my and other generations too, literary works, I think

595
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: in terms of just getting you excited about reading as

596
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: a kid. But I really do think that making the time,

597
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: even for those of us who feel like there's never

598
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: enough time to read all the history and all the

599
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: nonfiction you want to because there's always so much more

600
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: to learn, I would just say it's worth it to

601
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: spend some time to get into reading some things that

602
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: are just meant to let your mind wander and be

603
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: a little free in terms of the creativity and the storyline.

604
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: So anyway, I wish I don't know what his book

605
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: is like, but I wish wish mister Sean Warner all

606
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: the best of luck with his first debut novel out there.

607
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 1: And it's a nonfiction. You have a better shot as

608
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: a first time author of selling some copies. No matter

609
00:32:58,120 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: who you are, whether you're in the media or just

610
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: if we call them a civilian, but you know a

611
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: person has a normal day job, you have better chance

612
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: of selling nonfiction. Selling fiction is is really hard, is

613
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: really hard. I started recently The Darkness that Comes Before

614
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: I Think it Is, which is kind of an older one,

615
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: and man, it is it is dark. So I started

616
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: that one. I'm trying to think of some of the

617
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: other fantasy genre I read a Oh, man, it's so good.

618
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: It's like a Viking fantasy genre.

619
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 4: No.

620
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: I read this one pretty recently. Oh, we have a

621
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: book recommendation page, So where people should go to Clayandbuck

622
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: dot com. Where do they go? Do they go to

623
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: clayanbuck dot com slash Books team? Where do they go

624
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: to get to the book recommendation every book that we're

625
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: telling you know, Carrie started reading Shadow Divers recently. She

626
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: loves it. So if I tell you that something's really good,

627
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: it means that I am shocked if anyone tries to

628
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: read it and does not recognize it, at least for

629
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: being really good. There's there's I'm trying to remember the name. Oh, yes,

630
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: Shadow of the Gods by John Gwynn. I think I

631
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 1: read this. I read it during the pandemic, actually, when

632
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: I was locked down in New York City. Man, that

633
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: was a uh. If you like that Viking stuff, and

634
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: now it's not historical fiction, it's fantasy Viking genre, which

635
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: is getting my sounding too much like a nerd here

636
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: is getting down into it. It was really well written, really

637
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: good stuff. Guys. He does Viking reenactments. I mean he's

638
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 1: really into it. You know, it's very talented. Clayandbuck dot

639
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: com and then go under recommendations Clayanbuck dot com and

640
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: go to Rex. That's the way to do it. We've

641
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: got some great stuff there. Highly highly recommend We're like

642
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: selling books for some people here apparently too. We're getting

643
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people that are signing up clayanbuck dot

644
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:52,399
Speaker 1: com slash recommendations.

645
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 3: There we go.

646
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: We should do slash reco make it easier for people.

647
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: So I'm throwing some out there to you. I don't

648
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: know if you want to buy the Sean Warner, but

649
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: go for it. I haven't read that. I can't recommend

650
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: that one specifically, but hey, put a smile on the

651
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: guy's face. First time author. He's selling thousands of books now.

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00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: But if you're into Viking fantasy genre, Shadow of the

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00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 1: Gods by John Gwynn, I think you'll really enjoy that one.

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00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 1: And if you haven't ran Doune, that's a good place

655
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 1: to start with anything Fantasy Jean