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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody, Happy Thursday.

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Speaker 2: We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 3: What do we have, Crystal?

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Speaker 1: Indeed, we do many interesting things happening this morning. So

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Speaker 1: there were a couple of big rallies yesterday for Harris Walls,

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Speaker 1: one in particular in Detroit, huge crowd, and a big

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Speaker 1: new poll that is going to breize a whole lot

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Speaker 1: of eyebrows.

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Speaker 4: We'll get into all of that.

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Speaker 1: We also have more behind the scenes reporting of how

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Speaker 1: she chose Tim Walls over Josh Shapiro, so we'll break.

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Speaker 4: All of that down for you.

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Speaker 1: Republicans have dropped a new line of attack alleging stolen

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Speaker 1: valor against him Wall, so I show you all of

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Speaker 1: those details and talk about whether or not we think

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Speaker 1: that one will land. There is a horrific new video

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Speaker 1: that we have of that rape of Palestinian prisoner by

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Speaker 1: IDF soldiers. Remember, this is the situation that led to

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Speaker 1: a riot in defense of these soldiers and their right

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Speaker 1: to rape Palestinians. There's also a debate apparently unfolding on

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Speaker 1: Israeli TV where you have commentators who are upset that

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Speaker 1: this rape is not systematized. Of course it may actually be,

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Speaker 1: so we'll get into all of that our own. Ryan

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Speaker 1: Grimm also asking any state department some important questions there.

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Speaker 1: I'm taking a look in a monologue today about why

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Speaker 1: I think Tim Walls could be such a consequential pick.

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Speaker 1: And Jeff Stein of the Washington Post has done an

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Speaker 1: extraordinary job reporting out the failure over years of our

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Speaker 1: sanctions regime. So we're going to talk to him about that.

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Speaker 1: Really a fantastic piece of reporting.

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Speaker 3: There, incredible peace.

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Speaker 2: Took him months and months to do, so really excited

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Speaker 2: to dive into with a lot of him and what else.

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Speaker 2: Let's see, we've got eighty nine days. We're just looking

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Speaker 2: at the countdown clock this morning till election day. Pretty stunning,

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Speaker 2: the vast majority election up until the last month or so.

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Speaker 3: It was actually quite boring.

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Speaker 2: You know, we're a bit stunned, and then all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden and it becomes perhaps not only one of

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Speaker 2: the closest, but most exciting presidential races in quite some times.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that real interesting, real fast.

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Speaker 2: I certainly did. I'm so excited for all of us

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Speaker 2: to be at the DNC. Thank you to all of

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Speaker 2: our premium subscribers for enabling that breakingpoints dot com where

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Speaker 2: you get all the benefits of our premiumubscriber and you

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Speaker 2: get to support our work here, So continue to do that.

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Speaker 3: Other than that, let's start with what Crystal said.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we've got these incredible rallies, and really what

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Speaker 2: it is is an injection of massive enthusiasm into the

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Speaker 2: Kamalist Harris campaign. Let's go ahead and play some of this.

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Speaker 2: This was at the arrival of one of her two

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Speaker 2: rallies yesterday, and what's stunning is that this was the

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Speaker 2: second one in Detroit. Obviously Michigan a critical battleground state.

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Speaker 2: But look at the zoom out that we have in

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Speaker 2: this airplane hangar. I mean, these crowd sizes are reminiscent

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Speaker 2: really of the Obama campaign and the Trump campaign. From

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen where the crowd size. Look, it's not everything.

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Speaker 2: You know, losing candidates very frequently can draw large crowds.

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Speaker 2: But this is not something that we had previously seen

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Speaker 2: from the Kamala Harris or even the Joe Biden campaign.

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Speaker 2: I remember these pathetic scenes Crystal of Joe Biden speaking

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Speaker 2: in a high school gymnasium.

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Speaker 3: This is not high school gymnasium.

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Speaker 2: And no matter what any honest analysts can tell you,

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Speaker 2: both from the data that we have and from the

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Speaker 2: visuals of multi hours in some cases, the line I

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Speaker 2: believe to get into her first rally in it was

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Speaker 2: Eau Claire in Wisconsin was some one point five miles long,

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Speaker 2: some three hours just to get into the space.

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Speaker 3: Yeah it was.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look like it is undeniable. Something is happening,

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Speaker 2: you know, on the ground here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, the level of exciting, I mean, compared this to

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden, it's just stunning. It's crazy total turnaround. And

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Speaker 1: it's not just the crowd size. As you point out,

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Speaker 1: you see it in the polling data, where previously Republicans

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Speaker 1: had a massive advantage in terms of enthusiasm. Now Democrats

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Speaker 1: at the very least have pulled even with Republicans in

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Speaker 1: terms of enthusiasm. Now, listen, were most of these people

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Speaker 1: going to vote the Democratic to it anyway, whether it

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Speaker 1: was Biden or Kamala, et cetera, of course, But these

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Speaker 1: are the people who are kicking in their ten dollars,

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Speaker 1: their twenty dollars. These are the people who are phone banking.

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Speaker 1: These are the people who are posting about you know,

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Speaker 1: Kamala's bratt and whatever online and generally creating a vibe

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Speaker 1: of excitement and momentum. So in that respect, it really

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter. It really is like astonishing to see the

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Speaker 1: way this thing turned on a dime. We were talking

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Speaker 1: before we started the segment today. It was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: we kept saying, for like a year now, we've been saying,

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Speaker 1: it just feels like something is going to happen.

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Speaker 4: And sure, right, sure, surely it did.

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Speaker 3: Didn't take a genius or you know, be particular depression.

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Speaker 2: It was more of a gamble that in general, politics

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Speaker 2: always can eventually end up interesting.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes at some point in this case.

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Speaker 3: It certainly did.

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Speaker 2: There was one moment though, that we're all taking a

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Speaker 2: look at, where some highlights from the Kamala Harris campaign

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Speaker 2: we put together here some of the snippets that prosecuting

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Speaker 2: the case quote unquote against Trump and how she is

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Speaker 2: conducting herself also a clash with some protesters.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 5: We fight for our future where every senior can retire

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Speaker 5: with dignity, a future where we build a broad based economy,

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Speaker 5: and one where every American has the opportunity to own

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Speaker 5: a home, to start a business, to build wealth and

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Speaker 5: understand in this fight, as Tim Walls likes to point out,

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Speaker 5: we are joyful warriors. Joyful warriors because we know that

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Speaker 5: while fighting for a brighter future may be hard work,

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Speaker 5: hard work is good work. Hard work is good work

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Speaker 5: focused on the future. The other focused on the past.

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Speaker 5: And with Wisconsin, we here we fight for the future.

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Speaker 5: We fight for a future where every worker has the

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Speaker 5: freedom to join a union.

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Speaker 3: I've been dealing with people like in my whole career, for.

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Speaker 5: Example, as Attorney General of California. We'll hold on the

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Speaker 5: you know what, the courts are going to handle that

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Speaker 5: part of it.

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Speaker 3: What we're gonna do is beat him.

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Speaker 5: In November, he intends to surrender our fight against the

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Speaker 5: climate crisis, and he intends to end the affordable care act.

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Speaker 5: You know what, if you want Donald Trump to win,

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Speaker 5: then say that otherwise.

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Speaker 3: I'm speaking so Crystal.

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Speaker 2: I think that is the duality of Kamala Harris, that

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Speaker 2: very generic democratic language against Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: I mean, who am I here to sit here and judge.

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Speaker 2: She's got a massive craft size, got a major enthusiasm.

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Speaker 2: But you also that took place that second part in Detroit, Michigan, Michigan,

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Speaker 2: the site of course of a lot of the un

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Speaker 2: committed voters. Allegedly there was some meeting between her and

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Speaker 2: some uncommitted donors or sorry, uncommitted voters prior to the rally,

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Speaker 2: but then obviously the disruption and the protest, she very

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Speaker 2: forcefully kind of shut them down and said, you know,

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Speaker 2: by interrupting me, you're helping Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: So I think that was a good duality to show.

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Speaker 4: Every that's one hundred for that.

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Speaker 1: I mean it is very Hillary Clinton as absolutely, and

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Speaker 1: I think I'm a Bigglin's that online like using your

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Speaker 1: like girl boss energy to shut down people who are

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Speaker 1: worried about a genocide. I mean, we're going to cover

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Speaker 1: some of the horrific things that are coming out of

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Speaker 1: Israel with regards to their conduct in this war right now,

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Speaker 1: So obviously, in my opinion, not a good look. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure there are those who will appreciate that or whatver.

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Speaker 1: But you know, she has really risen in part on

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Speaker 1: the strength of how much better she's doing with young

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Speaker 1: people then Joe Biden, and you don't want to risk that.

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Speaker 1: And she's you know, earned a lot of goodwill also

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Speaker 1: with the pick of Tim Walls, who was very respectful

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Speaker 1: of the uncommitted voter group. In the state of Minnesota,

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Speaker 1: there was also a significant uncommitted movement there. He said, basically,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're talking, they're saying something important, their voice

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Speaker 1: needs to be heard, so very respectful, very different tone

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Speaker 1: coming here. However, you do point out and I want to,

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Speaker 1: you know, make it clear and be fully transparent. She

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Speaker 1: did meet with the co founders of the Uncommitted National Movement.

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Speaker 1: This is part of the New York Times, and they

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Speaker 1: argued to her in favor of an arms embargo to

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Speaker 1: immediately stop the carnage in Gaza, and she said she

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Speaker 1: was open.

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Speaker 4: To that, and she gave them.

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Speaker 1: They introduced them to two leaders and they also asked

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Speaker 1: for a direct another direct meeting with her, So you know,

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Speaker 1: I do think that is different from what Biden. We

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Speaker 1: know Biden was not meeting with them, he was not

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Speaker 1: giving them the time of day. He was certainly not

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Speaker 1: expressing any sort of openness to an arms embargo. So

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Speaker 1: that's a good indication. The response in the rally is

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Speaker 1: a bad indication. That's basically where we are.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a very good summary, and that's

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Speaker 2: where I think the duality and kind of where playing

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Speaker 2: this out will continue. Don't forget, you know, we all

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Speaker 2: continue overnight to always be on guard as well as Israel.

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Speaker 2: They're like, hey, what is going to happen here? You know,

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Speaker 2: we've seen some indications about potentially a broader war. There

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Speaker 2: are discussions right now by the Israelis where they believe

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Speaker 2: Hezbola is literally going to target Masad headquarters in the middle.

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Speaker 3: Of Tel Aviv.

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Speaker 2: So it's like, well, now what madam you know, Madam

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Speaker 2: Vice President, So where are we standing on this? You know,

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Speaker 2: are we going to go fully go to war for

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Speaker 2: Israel under your administration? Are you going to support that?

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Speaker 2: I mean, those are big, big question marks and this

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Speaker 2: could be a signal in either direction, you know, continuing now,

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Speaker 2: let's say that doesn't happen, which is also you know,

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Speaker 2: I would say relatively likely, or it escalation goes down,

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Speaker 2: and then it's going to stay to the domestic front

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Speaker 2: where it is right now, and that is where she

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Speaker 2: has probably seen the most enthusiasm, especially coming on the

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Speaker 2: heels of picking Governor Tim Walls of Minnesota. He hit

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Speaker 2: the campaign trail yesterday at two of these rallies. He

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Speaker 2: was very joyfully received. That's his new line. Let's take

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Speaker 2: a listen.

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Speaker 6: He froze in the face of COVID and it cost

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Speaker 6: people's lives. He drove the economy into the ground. And

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Speaker 6: make no mistake about it, violent crime was up when

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Speaker 6: Donald Trump was president. Those of you who are a

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Speaker 6: little older know this. Older Republicans used to talk about freedom.

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Speaker 6: These guys today, it turns out that freedom to them

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Speaker 6: means government should be free to invade your exam room

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Speaker 6: with your doctor. Now, look, we're pretty neighborly with Wisconsin.

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Speaker 6: We get our friendly battles. But in Minnesota, just like

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Speaker 6: in Wisconsin, we respect our neighbors and the personal choices

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Speaker 6: they make, even if we wouldn't make the same choices

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Speaker 6: for ourselves. Because we know there's a golden rule. Mind

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Speaker 6: your own damn business. Mind your own damn business.

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Speaker 4: I don't need you telling me about our healthcare.

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Speaker 6: I don't need you telling us who we love, and

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Speaker 6: I sure the hell don't need you telling us what

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Speaker 6: books we're gonna read.

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Speaker 2: All right, So there's the line happy warrior, almost a

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Speaker 2: libertarian framing there. I would just say, maybe you should

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Speaker 2: expect to extend that to some other issues, but we

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Speaker 2: can talk about that and debate it later. I will

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Speaker 2: just look at the rhetoric itself in the way that

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Speaker 2: it is being received. I think the joyful line and

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Speaker 2: that energy he's bringing to the ticket is smart. And

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Speaker 2: the reason why is it gives them the change campaign

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Speaker 2: that they didn't previously have. It gives them a veneer

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Speaker 2: and an aesthetic previously, which obviously Democrats really were yearning for.

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Speaker 2: And I think it combines again to bring it to

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Speaker 2: the duality here kind of in the way that Kamala

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Speaker 2: Harris is being received is for the vast majority of Democrats,

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Speaker 2: especially boomers, they just hate Trump. They hate him, and

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Speaker 2: they always just wanted somebody who, in their eyes, could

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Speaker 2: beat him.

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Speaker 3: Part of the reason enthusiasm was so low is they

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Speaker 3: didn't like Joe Biden.

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Speaker 2: They thought he was too old and they wouldn't be

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Speaker 2: able to prosecute the case against Trump. Yeah, Kamala really

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Speaker 2: fulfills that. Then you got younger voters and a lot

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Speaker 2: of others who are desperate to change the conditions of

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Speaker 2: the Biden presidency. Kamala's real benefit here is that she's

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Speaker 2: basically been memory hold for the last three years, shoved

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Speaker 2: into a closet and not pat of any real public profile.

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Speaker 2: Then she comes here soon to fight for the ticket,

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Speaker 2: doesn't do an interview we'll get to that, doesn't do

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Speaker 2: any debates, nothing anointed, and then picks the number two.

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Speaker 2: This number two is trying to inject like happiness, almost

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Speaker 2: a Reaganesque happy warrior style language.

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Speaker 3: And that is exactly the reason why I think it's smart.

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Speaker 2: Is if we look at the nineteen to eighty campaign,

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Speaker 2: the happy Warrior campaign for Ronald Reagan, so much of

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Speaker 2: it was let's just get the hell away from all

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Speaker 2: this madness of the nineteen seventies, and so there is

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Speaker 2: a similar feeling right now, similar conditions, and it's the

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Speaker 2: exact type of rhetoric that I would embrace if I

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Speaker 2: were them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's it gives the sense of like we're

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Speaker 1: turning the page, you know, her thing, her mantra of

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Speaker 1: we're not going back, which she sort of stumbled upon,

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Speaker 1: I think fits with that whole vibe as well. And

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Speaker 1: you know, the way he frames the position there on

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Speaker 1: cultural issues of like listen, mind your business, I think

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Speaker 1: whichever party feels like the one that's, you know, monitoring

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Speaker 1: what you're doing in your bedroom and your.

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Speaker 4: Life, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: I think there is a sort of American just natural

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Speaker 1: revulsion to that, which Democrats have at times definitely come

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Speaker 1: across as being the party of that. And I think

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Speaker 1: right now Republicans have gotten lost in that trap of

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Speaker 1: feeling like they're the ones, you know, as he puts it,

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Speaker 1: telling you what books your kids can read, you know,

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Speaker 1: what you can do in terms of healthcare, and generally

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Speaker 1: much more interested in the private decisions in your.

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Speaker 2: Lives than well, okay, since he brought it up, it's like, okay,

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Speaker 2: we're going to say it's like a fine.

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Speaker 3: It's like, oh, we shouldn't be policing books.

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Speaker 2: It's like, so are we defending like pornographic material in

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Speaker 2: like children's libraries.

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Speaker 3: I think that's sick and grotesque.

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Speaker 2: But again, like I also know and a friend of mine,

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Speaker 2: I don't actually know his real name. He's an anonymous

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Speaker 2: Twitter account, highly recommended. His name is Ruben Rodriguez, and

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Speaker 2: he highlights the very trap that I'm kind of falling

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Speaker 2: into right now. If you start bringing up porn in

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Speaker 2: kids libraries, you sound to borrow the governor's term weird.

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Speaker 2: Although I think it's real and I think it's gross. Now,

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Speaker 2: how you message and talk about that is very difficult. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: JD's had some struggles. I think Trump is probably the

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Speaker 2: best at it. He's like, it's gross, we're gonna get

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Speaker 2: rid of it, but we're all going to move on.

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Speaker 2: He just doesn't really talk about it, but he doesn't

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Speaker 2: acknowledges it a little bit.

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Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, but yeah, I mean the.

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Speaker 1: Trump has better instincts than like, you know, this is

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Speaker 1: the vague Ron de Santis. JD definitely seem obsessed with

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Speaker 1: these culture war issues, and so previously when it was

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Speaker 1: Democrats who you know, I think in twenty sixteen there

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Speaker 1: were all these debates about you know, trans bathroom bills

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Speaker 1: at SATURD, I really felt like Democrats, you know, on

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Speaker 1: that were more obsessed with what happened in the bathroom.

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Speaker 1: Democrats were the ones out policing language. You can say this,

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Speaker 1: you can't say that, et cetera, et cetera. You know,

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Speaker 1: now you've got Trump running a campaign that's like obsessed

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Speaker 1: with Kamala's race and gender. You've got a lot of

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Speaker 1: tampon tam attacks, et cetera. And so I do think

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Speaker 1: that it very much comes across that they're obsessed with

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Speaker 1: these niche cultural issues and missing the broader point. And

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Speaker 1: so whether you agree with that assessment or not, I

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Speaker 1: think the language lands, and I think it's a very good.

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Speaker 2: Political I would not. Yeah, look, I agree like the

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Speaker 2: tampon thing. Yeah, it's weird. Why are we putting tampon's

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Speaker 2: in boys bathrooms? It's fucking weird, all right, But guess what.

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Speaker 2: I also, I'm not stupid. I know that that's going

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Speaker 2: to sound weird to the vast majority of people, and

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Speaker 2: for most of them, they're like, hey, you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: sure whatever, Let's talk about something bigger.

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Speaker 3: So that would be my advice.

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Speaker 2: Let's not stick to this main thing I see all

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Speaker 2: over my freaking timeline. I'm like, guys, like, this is

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Speaker 2: not hitting obviously, because people think that a it's niche. Now,

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Speaker 2: even if you agree or disagree or whatever on the substance, like,

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Speaker 2: you got to think about smart politically. So even though

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Speaker 2: I think he's totally wrong, I do think that it

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Speaker 2: is smart framing. In general, whichever party is generally more

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Speaker 2: libertarian on the issues, at least presenting wise, usually has

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Speaker 2: a better shot.

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Speaker 3: Part of the reason why pro choice is so.

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Speaker 2: Much more popular than pro life you have people who

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Speaker 2: are even personally pro life or like, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 2: I know, somebody whatever, I.

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Speaker 3: Want to be in this decision. I don't generally like

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Speaker 3: telling people yeah, to do well.

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Speaker 1: I'll leave it there, And that's a good place to end,

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Speaker 1: because I think we both agree that yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: the most salient and powerful cultural issue right now is abortion.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And that's the problem is that if you have

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Speaker 2: trans like, look, I agree, I think trans is very upsetting.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a very important fight.

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Speaker 2: But I'm not dumb and don't know that abortion is

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Speaker 2: affecting way more people, and people are way more enthused

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Speaker 2: about it because it is so much more urgent in

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Speaker 2: a sense where you have the Republican position so far

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Speaker 2: out of step, not only from the media and voter,

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Speaker 2: but especially the median voter in the battleground state, and

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Speaker 2: then the people who are affected by it are so

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Speaker 2: much more enthusied.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's just empirically true.

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Speaker 2: Republican voters do not show up to vote based on

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Speaker 2: transgender or CRT or any of this other stuff. We

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Speaker 2: played the play we had the playbook in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 2: It just straight up didn't work. Democrats care a lot

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Speaker 2: more about enthusiasm, and they'll crawl over broken glass to

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Speaker 2: get them and you know, five of their cousins to

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Speaker 2: come out and vote for it, so that you know,

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Speaker 2: as a sheer political strategy, it is a smart play

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Speaker 2: for them to embrace for Right.

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Speaker 1: Now, yes, I think we have Trump out there posting

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Speaker 1: about Brian Kemp to show those sort of things that

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Speaker 1: he's focused on. Right now, I can put this up

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Speaker 1: on the screen. We discussed this a little bit, just

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Speaker 1: to show you that he's.

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Speaker 4: Apparently not moving on.

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Speaker 1: He's the Attorney General of Georgia, must get moving on this,

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Speaker 1: so must Governor Kemp and the Secretary of State Fulton.

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Speaker 4: County blah blah blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, so apparently he's still obsessing with Brian Kemp, who is,

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Speaker 1: of course the extremely popular Republican governor of the important

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Speaker 1: swing state of Georgia. So this is what he's spending

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Speaker 1: his time. I mean, it really does feel like he

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Speaker 1: in a certain sense. I understand they thought they had

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden. They were looking at a massive electoral landslide.

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Speaker 1: They were like, we're putting New Jersey into play, right in.

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Speaker 1: New Jersey is a new swing state, and now and

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Speaker 1: we can actually go ahead and put the next poles

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Speaker 1: up on the screen. Now, it's obviously a very different story.

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Speaker 1: At best, it's a true, true toss up. This is

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Speaker 1: a new Wisconsin poll from Marquette. It has Kamala Harris

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Speaker 1: up by one in the state of Wisconsin. So you know,

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Speaker 1: this is what most of the battlegrounds look like. It

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Speaker 1: is as tight as it could possibly be. Very different

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Speaker 1: picture from when it was Joe Biden at the top

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Speaker 1: of the ticket. The next one it's an outlier. Let's

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Speaker 1: put it up there, guys.

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Speaker 3: This is a.

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Speaker 4: Marquette national poll.

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Speaker 1: And when you put in when you have the three

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Speaker 1: way race here with RFK in the mix, you've got

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris at fifty percent and Trump at forty two percent,

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Speaker 1: an eight percentage point lead that is among likely voters.

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Speaker 1: Among registered voters, Harris is up forty seven forty one.

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Speaker 4: Previously in this same poll.

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Speaker 1: The last time they did it, when it was Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden in the race, Trump led forty four forty one.

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Speaker 1: So again it's an outlier. We should, you know, treat

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Speaker 1: it as such, and you know, especially when you pair

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Speaker 1: it with this very same polster getting a one point

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Speaker 1: lead for Kamala in Wisconsin, which is probably more reflective

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Speaker 1: of where the race actually is. But this is the

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Speaker 1: first time we've seen this kind of lead for her,

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Speaker 1: and we should also be clear Soccer, these are the

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Speaker 1: types of polls that Joe Biden was getting regularly in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty last time around. So you know, are the

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Speaker 1: polls understating Trump support as they did last time, are

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Speaker 1: they overstating Republican support as they did in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 4: We genuinely don't know.

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Speaker 1: But it's important to keep in mind that when Biden

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Speaker 1: Biden did win, of course in twenty twenty, but it

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Speaker 1: was so much closer than polls indicated, and he was

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Speaker 1: seeing a lot of national polls and battleground ste polls

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Speaker 1: that had massive leads.

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Speaker 3: Like, yeah, that's a very important point.

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Speaker 2: But another important point that we're learning is that if

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Speaker 2: it is fifty to what was it forty nine in Wisconsin,

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Speaker 2: that doesn't include RFK Junior on the ballot.

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Speaker 3: That's just the head to head.

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Speaker 2: If RFK Junior is on the ballot, it's very clear

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Speaker 2: in that national poll by Marquette that RFK is significantly

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Speaker 2: bringing down a lot of Trump's support. And so in

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Speaker 2: this particular scenario, we have to factor in that RFK

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Speaker 2: is going to be on the ballot definitely in the

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Speaker 2: state of Michigan and multiple other of the battleground states.

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Speaker 2: Hasn't had any indication that he's going to drop out.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't want to. He wants to run against Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: And it is extremely like you right now that if

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump does lose, it will be largely because of

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Speaker 2: RFK Junior on top of Democratic consolidation and enthusiasm in

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Speaker 2: the Democratic ticket. So I really don't want to look

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Speaker 2: past that. And you put it all together, I think

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Speaker 2: I'm truly back to like a fifty to fifty if

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Speaker 2: try not to overcorrect or anything, but I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think we're at a full on toss up, and

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Speaker 2: that's where Cook Political Report I think he's sent us

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Speaker 2: this morning has moved Arizona, Nevada, and Georgia all back

437
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 2: into the toss up category. And in a toss up,

438
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:07,880
Speaker 2: you know the problem is is that we only have

439
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 2: eighty nine days until the election. You need to try

440
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,719
Speaker 2: and get some momentum. Donald Trump will be doing a

441
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 2: press conference sometime later today. I think at the very

442
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,159
Speaker 2: least he should be doing something. But he has been

443
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 2: absent from the campaign drail from not four or five days.

444
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 3: It's not shocking. What are you doing?

445
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 2: He's a conservative activist. Put he's like JD. Vans is

446
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 2: doing three campaign events today.

447
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 3: Where are you?

448
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 2: Why are you at mar A Lagos just sitting and steing.

449
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,359
Speaker 2: In a sense, I think we can, I guess empathize

450
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 2: to a certain extent where you're like, wow, yeah, you

451
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,159
Speaker 2: thought you were in the bag, you thought this was

452
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 2: a done deal. Now you were in a full on

453
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,679
Speaker 2: toss up. I'm not sure he mentally was prepared for that.

454
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 2: I mean, if you think psychologically, eighteen straight months of

455
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 2: running against Joe Biden and then in the very last

456
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 2: stretch this candidate gets switched out all this massive amount

457
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 2: of money enthusiasm. So many of your polls are noisy

458
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 2: right now because in a certain you know, think about it,

459
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 2: when you inject a new person, especially like Tim Walls,

460
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,719
Speaker 2: people don't even know if Tim Walls is. People are

461
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 2: walking around, They're like who. And so when you have

462
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,439
Speaker 2: to make up your mind and put in new people,

463
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,200
Speaker 2: and then that really can scramble the way that people

464
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,199
Speaker 2: who have previously been very hardened in the way that

465
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 2: they vote, which is very common you know in a

466
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 2: incumbent versus semi incumbent. In this race, it was well

467
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,399
Speaker 2: of the quote unquote the race that everybody was dreading

468
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 2: and significantly has changed all of that up. So I

469
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 2: don't even know if I'm taking the polls all that

470
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 2: seriously except as a signal of democratic consolidation.

471
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 3: Yea real head to heads. Maybe, you know, a couple

472
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 3: of weeks.

473
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 2: Out, I'll be like, Okay, I think we've had enough

474
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 2: time now people can make up there.

475
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 1: I mean, one thing you can say for sure about

476
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 1: this Marquette poll, because it's the very same polster. I mean,

477
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 1: the movement towards the Democrats has been massive in the

478
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 1: switch out, there's no doubt about that. And the other

479
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: thing that's been really interesting is Biden's approval rating has

480
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: jumped up too.

481
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, because he doesn't exist an me well.

482
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 1: Because I mean, like people are the happiest they've been

483
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: with anything he's done as an administration is being like,

484
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:58,880
Speaker 1: I promise I won't be president again.

485
00:22:58,960 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 4: You're like, yay.

486
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 3: It's like a wax statue.

487
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 1: In Kamala's approval rating has skyrocketed, you know, in many

488
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,639
Speaker 1: polls at this point, she's above water in terms of

489
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 1: approval rating, and that should be you know, a low.

490
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,400
Speaker 4: Bar, but in modern politics it's not. So.

491
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: The way that she has her polling has moved has

492
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 1: been I'm sure astonishing to it's astonishing men. I'm sure

493
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: it's astonishing to the Trump people as well. But the

494
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 1: Biden thing is interesting in particular because one of the

495
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: questions about his low approval rating, low poll numbers, et cetera,

496
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: is how much of it is just about him being

497
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: too frickin' old, and how much of it is about

498
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: everything else that you may be upset with with regard

499
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 1: to the Biden administration.

500
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 4: And it looks like the old thing was a really

501
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 4: big deal.

502
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: Just given the fact that now that he said guys, okay, fine,

503
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 1: I'm out, I'm leaving. Don't worry about it, his approval

504
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: rating has also skyrocketing.

505
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 3: I've always believed that.

506
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 2: I've always believed that his age has dragged down everything.

507
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 2: I remember several months ago, looking at Wall Street Journal,

508
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 2: they did polls state by state, so they would ask

509
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 2: people in Georgia, how do you feel about your economy

510
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 2: your state economy, oh, plus sixty five percent? How do

511
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 2: you feel about the national economy? Minus twenty five? And

512
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 2: a lot of Liberals who are very much like unskew

513
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 2: the economic sentiment, were like, what's.

514
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 4: Going on here?

515
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 3: I don't understand people who are lying.

516
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, man, you don't understand how I feel

517
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 2: about the national economy is a proxy for I hate

518
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 2: Joe Biden, and so now, like I said, that scrambles

519
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 2: everything keeping Biden out of the race. I'm not saying

520
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,880
Speaker 2: the economy is good or anything, but minus twenty five.

521
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 2: Let's say it goes to minus two. Well, that's actually

522
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 2: a massive advantage for Kamala Harris. I think it's been

523
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 2: baked a bone marrow at the very center of the

524
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 2: entire campaign, just seeing this like aging, dementia ridden figure

525
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 2: at the top of the country is extremely demoralizing. Yeah,

526
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 2: for everyone on the top of Democrats. It feeds into

527
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 2: the way that you think about the optimism of a literal,

528
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,199
Speaker 2: like functioning human being who can do a couple of

529
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 2: campaign stops and that's enough, you know, to shift things around.

530
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 2: So that's really the state of the race could not

531
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 2: have been more changed than the last couple of weeks.

532
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 2: I think it is genuinely a true toss up right now,

533
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 2: and she has quite a bit of momentum. She's got

534
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 2: the to remember this too, I was thinking about it.

535
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 2: The Republicans picked their guy at the RNC or coordinated

536
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 2: the guy at the RNC right before the Biden decision,

537
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 2: so they're not going to get the RNC media bump,

538
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 2: which you usually get.

539
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 3: Now, usually those.

540
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 2: Things don't matter because you've been running for eighteen months.

541
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 2: Who is this lady? Who is Tim Walltz. We're gonna

542
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 2: have four straight days of dedicated coverage the entire national media.

543
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 2: So the DNC media advantage here is immense because it's

544
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 2: literally a brand new race and a brand new candidate.

545
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 2: So there's so many inherent strengths she's gotten what is

546
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 2: it eighteen days now, has done an interview. We're about

547
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 2: to get to that. Maybe I'll go thirty days, you know,

548
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 2: if I'm hurt, maybe I'll go two months. I'm not

549
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 2: going to do an interview up until the very last time.

550
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 2: So I think that's a very the structural advantage here

551
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 2: on the media side, on the Democratic side, on the

552
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 2: money side too. I mean what they raised what ten

553
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 2: million dollars in an hour after Tim Walls was selected.

554
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 2: So there's a lot that is happening and the Trump

555
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 2: people should be afraid. Let's get to the next part.

556
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 2: This is clearly I think the Trump campaign on the

557
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 2: back foot, and they're trying to force a conversation here

558
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: about Hey, why has Kamala Harris not done any interviews?

559
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 2: Jad Vance yesterday his plane was on the same tarmac

560
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 2: as Air Force two and decided to walk over to

561
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: the press corps of the Kamala Harris campaign and ask

562
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 2: them why they haven't been pressing Kamala to do more questions.

563
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

564
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 7: I figured i'd come by and Warren is taking a

565
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 7: good blue on the.

566
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 3: Plane because hopefully it's going to be my plane in

567
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 3: a few months.

568
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 8: But I also thought you guys might get only because

569
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 8: the vice president doesn't answer questions from reporters and hasn't

570
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 8: their seventeen days. I think give you guys an explanation

571
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,959
Speaker 8: for why she won't take questions to reporters.

572
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 2: I know.

573
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 9: Nobody, Okay, great.

574
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 8: Well, I hope that you changed your mind, because.

575
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:55,919
Speaker 9: It'd be good for the American people, and I think

576
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 9: it'd be good for you all.

577
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 8: She actually ran a real campaign instead of one from

578
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 8: a basement with the tellapropter. So have goodle guys to see, um,

579
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 8: what would you like to hear from her answer that questions.

580
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 8: I'd love her to just answer what she wants to

581
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 8: do and also explain why every single position she has

582
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 8: has changed.

583
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 2: So he's trying to get the conversation going. Actually, some

584
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 2: in the national media have picked it up. Let's put

585
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 2: this up there on the screen from Dave Weigel. He says, yeah,

586
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 2: it makes sense that Harris wasn't doing media during the

587
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 2: veep selection, when a bunch of questions would have been irrelevant.

588
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 2: But now there's a ticket, there's a press corps. Why

589
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 2: don't you just shoot them some news of the day

590
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 2: questions on the plane. You know, JD actually has I

591
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 2: think he did. I think he's done like sixteen interviews

592
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: just in the last couple of days. Now, look, that's

593
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 2: not an excuse. You know, it should be Trump who's

594
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 2: doing a lot of these interviews. Yeah, why he's Look,

595
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: I think the Aiden Ross streaming thing, it's fine, okay,

596
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 2: Like it's fun. I'm sure it's probably very enjoyable to

597
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 2: do an extremely friendly interview in a.

598
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 4: Stream Alex or something like that game.

599
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 2: Which people are wondering if that's an FEC violation. That's

600
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 2: all this interesting one. I've never seen somebody get to

601
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 2: interviewee something. It's usually the interviewers. We're trying to curry favor,

602
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 2: you know, with the inter with the person who's interviewing them.

603
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 2: So anyway, so my thing with Trump is he's doing

604
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 2: this Aiden Ross thing. Yeah, he's got an interview with

605
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 2: Elon on Monday, which you can ask Ron DeSantis about that.

606
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 2: And by the way, this is all fine if you're

607
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 2: just you know, want to gin up enthusiasm amongst people

608
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 2: who alread agree with you. Yeah, bro, we you're in

609
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 2: the fight of your life right now. Like he's doing

610
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,719
Speaker 2: a press conference today. I think that's great. I think

611
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 2: Kamala should do one too, and hopefully they're going to

612
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 2: try and change the conversation around that. But what do

613
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 2: you think christ like in terms of the strategy, because

614
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: I mean, Waltce hasn't done an interview yet, hopefully he

615
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 2: does some.

616
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 3: I'd actually like to see that.

617
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Kamala, I mean, seventeen days now, no major

618
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 2: sit down. Joe Biden has done a CBS News sit down.

619
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 2: So the freaking dead vice president is doing more.

620
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 3: Interviews than you.

621
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: I think he's done two interviews since he dropped out

622
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 2: of the race. Yeah, what's happening here?

623
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 6: Yeah?

624
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: No, I mean, listen, from a democracy, it's terrible. It's terrible.

625
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: Like you got put in this position. There was no

626
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: open process. You know, they canceled the primary, so that

627
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: wasn't really then.

628
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 4: They just picked you and you you know here we

629
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 4: are okay.

630
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: But and then you shouldn't even answer any questions. You

631
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: a brass conference whatever. This is a little lot of

632
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: census the modern media landscape, and so do I think

633
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: she's going to.

634
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 4: Pay a price for it?

635
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: Like I wish that you I wish you know, Trump

636
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: would pay a price for Also mostly overwhelmingly sitting with

637
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: friendly people like Fox News or Aiden Ross. He's got

638
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: that twelve to fifteen year old boy demo locked up there.

639
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: But I don't think that they do pay a price

640
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: for it. I just I just think that's like people

641
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: have gotten used to this media landscape where all they

642
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: do is friendly interviews, softball questions, go out and give

643
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: a teleprompter speech, et cetera. And so you know, we've

644
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: actually got this this the Shark Tank guy what's his name, Kevin,

645
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: Kevin O'Leary saying basically like, yeah, no, they're they're in

646
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: U fourg moo. No, they're not going to answer any questions.

647
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: And he's like, that's probably smart strategy. And I can't

648
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: really disagree because in terms of strategy, because we know

649
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: Kama her weakness is when she is caught off guard.

650
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,719
Speaker 1: That's when she has had her worst moments, lest her

651
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: whole interview in the debates, when she would be caught

652
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: off guard, when Tulsi Gabbard was challenging her, etc.

653
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 4: That's when she's most vulnerable.

654
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: She's always been a very cautious politician in terms of

655
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: who she would allow access to her, So it doesn't

656
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: surprise me that they're pursuing this strategy, and unfortunately, I

657
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: think it's probably the right one.

658
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to what he had to say.

659
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 3: It's intentional.

660
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 10: She has no intention of putting any policy out there

661
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 10: until this convention's over. I'm very fortunate guy, because I'm

662
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 10: an investor and for decades I've been syndicating debt, primarily

663
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 10: for real estate. Some of her closest advisor are people

664
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 10: I work with in finance and we're friends. So I

665
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 10: call them up to say, hey, listen, do you want

666
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 10: to talk about policy here? And they said, listen, everything's

667
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 10: working right now. We're going to strong arm the press

668
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 10: on policy.

669
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 3: We don't need to do anything.

670
00:30:58,760 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 4: What's everything's working.

671
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 10: The momentum's crazy. The press she's getting right now. She's

672
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 10: sucking her campaign.

673
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 3: The campaign.

674
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 10: The campaign is working, and there's no reason to sit

675
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 10: down with any journalist and talk policy right now because

676
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 10: we're in the euphoric stage. They think they can raise

677
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 10: up to three hundred million dollars before this campaign, before

678
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 10: this whole thing's going to happen over.

679
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 3: The weekend is over.

680
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 10: So that's extraordinary amount of money. Then it's time to

681
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 10: talk policy. Then it's time to go to the center.

682
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 10: Then it's time to talk about border.

683
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 4: All right, So are they telling you where she stands.

684
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 10: No, they're just saying, listen, we don't worry about this

685
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 10: right now.

686
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 3: We don't have a problem.

687
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 10: No problem here, Houston. We're just Raisin dough and you

688
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 10: got to head it to her. They're now talking within

689
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 10: that campaign about a path to winning that they didn't

690
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 10: even see eight days ago.

691
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: And here's the other thing too, Sagar is like Kamala

692
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: has already signaled that she's running away from every progressive

693
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: position she took in twenty twenty, and so of course

694
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: any reporter worth her salt is going to ask her

695
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 1: about those things.

696
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 4: And I think she very much prefers to live.

697
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: In this ambiguous state of like widow Relana, what she

698
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: stands for, what you want, and allowing people to project,

699
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: as they did onto Obama, whatever they want to see

700
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: in her. And I think they're going to keep that

701
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: going as long as they can. That's not an endorsement

702
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: of the strategy. I think she should be taking questions.

703
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,719
Speaker 1: I think it's really important to know what the agenda

704
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: would be, what the priorities would be, etc.

705
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 4: I think she should be challenged on those things.

706
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: But I don't doubt that that's the way that they're

707
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: thinking about.

708
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 3: I mean to borrow.

709
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 2: Everybody has basically said this, it's a ViBe's election, and

710
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 2: vibes are good whenever you don't have to take any positions.

711
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 2: With Trump, one of the things that's thinking him with

712
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 2: gen Pop is that he's got January sixth, stop the steal,

713
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 2: which is, look, you can you hate it and all that.

714
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 2: It's not only a bad vibe, but on a policy level,

715
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 2: it's explicitly like I did not agree with the votes

716
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 2: last time around in twenty twenty.

717
00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 3: Now, same with abortion, where it's a concrete thing.

718
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 2: You appointed the justices and they overturned Row versus weight

719
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 2: with Kamala, What are you going to do at all?

720
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 3: Are you?

721
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 2: What are you going to do with Israel? What do

722
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: you think about NATO and Ukraine? What are you going

723
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 2: to do with the Tax cuts and Jobs Act? You know,

724
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 2: this is literally the most urgent and pressing economic matter

725
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 2: in decades in Washington. The extension fight probably what since

726
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 2: the Bush tax cuts in two thousand.

727
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 3: I forget the last time that they were extended.

728
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 4: My Democrats caved on.

729
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 2: The Democrats caved on right, So are you going to

730
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 2: do that again? You said previously I would repeal TCJA

731
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 2: on day one. Now that's not gonna happen because it's

732
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 2: an Act of Congress. Do you agree with that?

733
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 10: Like?

734
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 2: Which parts of it would you extend? Would you strike?

735
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 2: What would your strategy be? Remember, Joe Biden got so

736
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 2: many questions on the campaign trail last time around about

737
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 2: how he was going to work with Mitch McConnell. I

738
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 2: know his answers were mostly stupid, but he got a

739
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 2: lot of questions about that. That's a great thing for

740
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris. You literally served in the Senate. What do

741
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 2: you believe? What would you sign? Would you see cetc?

742
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 2: To what extent?

743
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 3: How high? What is your tax policy? Are you borrowing

744
00:33:59,000 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 3: from Joe Biden?

745
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 2: You've disavowed every previous position you've ever had on the border,

746
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 2: on everything. But because the enthusiasm is still so high,

747
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 2: Ryan said this, and I really think it's so true.

748
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 2: She wants to get as close to that number on

749
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 2: the ticket that previously used to pull a generic Democrat.

750
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 3: That's all you want.

751
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 2: You don't want to take positions, don't want to piss

752
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 2: the people off. And I agree though it's very unfortunate

753
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 2: because many people are frankly totally fine with this, both

754
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 2: in terms of partisan media.

755
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 3: I mean, I see it all the time with Trump.

756
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 11: They're like, oh, it was such.

757
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 3: A genius move. I'm like, yeah, it was it a

758
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 3: genius move. It's like Trump.

759
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 2: I actually think Trump functions at his best and is

760
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 2: able to capture the most media in hostile environments. I mean, look,

761
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: you can hate that black journalist veentor whatever if you want.

762
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 2: It took over the world for a brief moment the

763
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 2: CNN town hall that he did.

764
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 3: Same thing. I mean, everybody covered it.

765
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 2: I think he actually functions both at a media capture

766
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 2: level and probably at a better level in terms of

767
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 2: showing his contrast or whatever in those Now does he

768
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 2: also hang himself?

769
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:58,760
Speaker 3: Certainly, that's Donald Trump.

770
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 2: But with Kamala and with her previous wish washing, as

771
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 2: you're saying, even a lesser hole even, I frankly think

772
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 2: even the most friendly interviewer of Rachel Mattow or somebody,

773
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 2: you gotta ask something, because then you just completely sacrifice

774
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 2: your sacrifice, any of your integrity, whatever scrap is left,

775
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 2: and when you combine those two. They're still giving her

776
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 2: a pass though, you know, you only have a few.

777
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 2: Like Dave Wigel, I saw Maggie Haveman as well retweet that.

778
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 2: But yeah, you know, if the national reporters start to

779
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 2: press her, it's possible she could cave, but it might

780
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 2: be too late. I mean, they might wait a whole month.

781
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 2: I think that's you can't wait a month. I think

782
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 2: that's out rageous.

783
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

784
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 1: I mean the other thing in terms of the Trump

785
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: side prosecuting this case, we keep using that, but anyway,

786
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: trying to make this case against Kamala Harris. The other

787
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: weakness they have is like Trump has kind of gotten

788
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: squishy about whether he's going to agree to a debate,

789
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: So you don't exactly look like you're out front and

790
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: wanting to demonstrate to the American people and get into

791
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: a back and.

792
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:52,280
Speaker 4: Forth with her either.

793
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's I mean, like you said, it's it's

794
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 1: sad that this is the environment that we live in.

795
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: It's sad that it probably you know, people don't really

796
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: care that much. It feels like a kind of a

797
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: process question. All of that is the case. You know,

798
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: it's sad that the press doesn't press her more on

799
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: these things and doesn't press Trump more on his tendency

800
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 1: to only sit with friendly audiences.

801
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 4: But you're absolutely right about Trump. I don't think that

802
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:16,760
Speaker 4: with Kamala.

803
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: I think the strategy, whether I like it or not,

804
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: I think it makes sense. With Trump, it doesn't make

805
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: sense because he needs to reclaim this narrative.

806
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 3: He needs to take over the airwaves. He needs sixteen.

807
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: He his greatest gift is being able to drive the

808
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: conversation and force people into the debate on his terms. Now,

809
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: I personally think the way he did that at the

810
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: NABJ conference was very destructive to him. I don't think

811
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 1: it was helpful whatsoever. But it demonstrated his ability to

812
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: seize the moment and force people to talk about whatever

813
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: he wants them to be talking about. He's very good

814
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,280
Speaker 1: at that, and so, you know, for him to avoid

815
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,439
Speaker 1: any sort of hostile questioning and for him to have

816
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: ghettoized himself on true social where no one really gives

817
00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,240
Speaker 1: a shit what he's saying over there either.

818
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 4: I think these and when.

819
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: We do pay attention, it's like, oh, you're attacking Brian Kemp.

820
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 1: Good job, great work with that, you know. I think

821
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: these are some serious errors that he is making in

822
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: this campaign, and I do think that he is you know,

823
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: we forget he's an older man. Also, he's not as

824
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: feeble as Joe Biden was, et cetera. But older people

825
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: they get they get kind of stuck in a rut.

826
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 1: And I think he's having trouble grappling with the switch

827
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: in the top of the ticket. I think he really

828
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: is struggling to adjust to that because even though maybe

829
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: somewhere in his mind he thought it was a possibility,

830
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 1: he clearly didn't really believe that that was going to happen,

831
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 1: and clearly didn't really plan for the eventuality of that

832
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,720
Speaker 1: of that happening. And so now he's out there still

833
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,720
Speaker 1: talking about Joe Biden, constructing in his minds, I'm elaborate

834
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: conspiracy theory that maybe we're going to bring Joe Biden

835
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 1: back onto the ticket and can't really move on and

836
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: prosecute in effective case against the ticket that he actually

837
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: is running up again.

838
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 2: We have been so gaslight by aging politicians. Is that

839
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 2: I am so struck by just a return to normal,

840
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 2: Like JD's got two interviews out this morning, he did

841
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,240
Speaker 2: four campaign events yesterday.

842
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 3: That's actually normal that's how it's supposed to be.

843
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 4: Kamala, they're supposed to care working a lot.

844
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 2: The only thing for you that happened with Kamala that

845
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 2: should have happened didn't happen yesterday, is she was supposed

846
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 2: to take questions on the plane in between stops. Okay,

847
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 2: and we just did a whole segment about that, But

848
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 2: she did two campaign stops. I mean, that's what you're

849
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 2: supposed to do. Trump has been sitting in mar A

850
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 2: Lago for five freaking days tweeting about Brian or truth

851
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 2: started truthing about Brian Kemp.

852
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 3: That's not what we're supposed to do.

853
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,240
Speaker 2: And that's where I'm struck, just by literally the age

854
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 2: difference of having younger people on the ticket and how

855
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 2: much more beneficial it is. So I've probably never been

856
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 2: more agist whenever it comes to politics. It is right

857
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 2: now because I'm like.

858
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, this is how it was supposed to be.

859
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, old McCain worked harder than both

860
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 2: of these guys did, Joe Biden and Trump did whenever

861
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 2: he was on the campaign trail in two thousand and eight,

862
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 2: and there was a whole national conversation, how old is

863
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 2: he sixty or something sixty two about.

864
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 4: Whether he was too Yeah, that's right, that's right.

865
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,399
Speaker 1: Anyway, So let's move on to We've got a bunch

866
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: of new reporting about how the Tim Walls versus Josh

867
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,280
Speaker 1: Shapiro decision went down, and some of this is very interesting.

868
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: So let's put CNN up on the screen here. They

869
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: had one of the sort of most in depth deep

870
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: dives into the interview and vetting process. Their headline is

871
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: the Blue Walls How a low key Midwestern governor shot

872
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: to the top to be Harris's VP pick. And a

873
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: couple things that are of note here. Number one, apparently

874
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: just the vibes with Shapiro were off and the vibes

875
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 1: with Walls were apparently very good. Walls came in, she

876
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 1: was like, okay, well, what do you see as the

877
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: role of vice president? And he was like, whatever you

878
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: want it to be. And she asked him, okay, well

879
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: do you want to be the last person in the

880
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: room when decisions are being made?

881
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 4: And he's like, if you want.

882
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: Me there, So it was very you know, put me in, coach,

883
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: I'm ready to go. I'll do whatever you want me

884
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 1: to do. I'll be the quote unquote happy warrior. So

885
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 1: that was the vibe with Walls. With Shapiro, it sort

886
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: of echoed the concerns that Fetterman had put out publicly

887
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: that this man is very ambitious, that he may overshadow you.

888
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: He had a bunch of questions for her about like, oh, well,

889
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 1: what would my role be, and trying to carve out

890
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: specifically the parameters of what that would look like. One

891
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,760
Speaker 1: source familiar with the meetings said it was a striking

892
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: contrast between the two individuals.

893
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 4: But another thing I noted in.

894
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: This piece was the quiet organized support campaign for Walls

895
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: that was unfolding behind the scenes that involved apparently Nancy

896
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: Pelosi and Barack Obama.

897
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 4: So here's what they say.

898
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: They don't have a lot of details, but this is

899
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 1: the lines from us CNN. They say Walls was propelled

900
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: by support from across the Democratic Party, progressive and moderate

901
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 1: factions alike. We saw, for example, publicly Joe Manchin coming

902
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: out and praising him in a sophisticated campaign guided by

903
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: some of the party's most seasoned operatives. He had former

904
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on his side, old allies from

905
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: his twelve years in Congress representing a rural Minnesota district,

906
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: as well as glowing words from former President Obama, who

907
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: said in a statement Tuesday of walls, he has the

908
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: values and the integrity to make us proud. They go

909
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: on to say Obama also served as a sounding board

910
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: for Vice President Harris to talk through how she was

911
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: thinking about it. I'm sure he was just the sounding

912
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: boards are just listening, not offering any sort of shaping

913
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: words or guidance on that. So I found that very

914
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: noere That's the only place I saw that reporting about

915
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 1: Obama's involvement here. They did mention that, you know, Shapiro

916
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: came with some drama because of the comments that he

917
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: had made with regard to you know, protesters being Palaestin

918
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: and Propalstigne testers being a kin to the KKK. One

919
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: of the Democrats involved said, no one wanted to rip

920
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 1: that scab back Goban. So I think there were also

921
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 1: concerns that because of how stridently he had come out

922
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: in support of Israel's prosecution the war on Gazan against

923
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: specifically against the protesters, that that was just a can

924
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: of worms that they didn't really want to open. And

925
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 1: so I thought that was all very interesting that, you know,

926
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 1: the fit was different. The way they handled the interview

927
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: was very, very different. And we also saw some reporting

928
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: saga that you know, there was this like Josh Shapiro

929
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,760
Speaker 1: hype video that had come out that the Philadelphia Mayer

930
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 1: had put out. I think because he made such a

931
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 1: sort of aggressive and the people around him made such

932
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:31,399
Speaker 1: an aggressive play, including this highly produced video, including trying

933
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: to create this narrative of his inevitability. I mean, I

934
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: know if it was me, I'd be like that, like

935
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 1: you think this is a done deal, that you've just

936
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:42,720
Speaker 1: got this in the bag. I know that I would

937
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 1: find that to be very off putting if I was

938
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: making that show well.

939
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 2: And I also didn't take I think there was a

940
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 2: Jon Favreau who used to write Obama's speeches. One of

941
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 2: the pod Save Bros. Even he was making fun of

942
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 2: Josh Shapiro's Obama mannerisms. That has the great people like Obama.

943
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 4: If you're literally Obama.

944
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, maybe Obama. What do we really know about Obama?

945
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, he's in it for himself.

946
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 2: He's probably one of the great arch narcissists in American history.

947
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,240
Speaker 2: He's very good at getting himself elected and getting himself

948
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 2: a lot of media and so in this case it

949
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 2: probably pissed him off. You know that Josh Shapiro was

950
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 2: copying him more and more that we see and learn

951
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 2: from behind the scenes. I do think that that was

952
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 2: probably the biggest you called it, you know, credit to you,

953
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 2: which is that he is just so extraordinarily ambitious. He

954
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 2: doesn't know how to be a number two man. Tim

955
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 2: Watts allegedly told Kamala Harris he has no desire to

956
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 2: be president, and that's one of the reasons why he

957
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 2: was picked as the vice president, reminiscent of that Dick

958
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 2: Cheney pick by George W.

959
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 3: Bush.

960
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 2: W was a very insecure man, very much like Kamla,

961
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 2: and he didn't want anybody to overshadow him. He didn't

962
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 2: know what to do. He had been they've been burned

963
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 2: by Dan Quayle because he was literally an idiot. Under

964
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,399
Speaker 2: hw He's like, so who do I pick? And they're like, oh,

965
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,479
Speaker 2: you should pick somebody like Cheney. Because the thing about

966
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 2: Cheney is he always loved being the number two man,

967
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 2: and so he as the NBA president.

968
00:43:58,640 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 3: It really lit him up.

969
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,879
Speaker 2: This idea that you have a non ambitious person who

970
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 2: will help you run stuff for you, and I've worked

971
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 2: out badly for the country, but he did run stuff

972
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 2: for w That actually was the ideal position. He didn't

973
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 2: really work that hard.

974
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 3: He wasn't you know. He didn't like to think all

975
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 3: that much.

976
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 2: So I think that Walls kind of pitched himself in

977
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 2: a similar way of I'm not going to try and

978
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 2: upstate you. I'm just your number two man. I'm here

979
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 2: to help you to the best of my ability. I

980
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 2: also don't think we can discount now in retrospect how

981
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 2: much is Washington connections really worked out for him. Helped

982
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: Nancy Post to become Speaker of the House, Posted going

983
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 2: to bat for him. A lot of his house colleagues

984
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,479
Speaker 2: loved him in terms of the people. I think Amy

985
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 2: Klobahar was going to bat for him in the Senate, So,

986
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 2: you know, having people in Washington who have a good

987
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 2: relationship with you, especially when Josh Shapiro is way more

988
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 2: of an unknown he's never been here in d C.

989
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:50,879
Speaker 2: I think that probably helped him, you know, much more.

990
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's right, because she knew Shapiro a

991
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: little better than she knew Walls going into this process.

992
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: But I don't think they were like close either. The

993
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: person she was probably closest tors Roy Cooper, who had

994
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: taken himself out of consideration. But this was a very

995
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: condensed timeline. So if this is someone who you're going

996
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: to have to potentially govern with, yeah, where can you

997
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,800
Speaker 1: get that comfort that this is going to be someone

998
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: that you're going to be able to get along with?

999
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: And so the fact that Walls had so many people

1000
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: from across the entire ideological spectrum being like, yeah, it's

1001
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: just a great guy. And Joe Biden said something he

1002
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 1: just likes like people just like this guy. And to me,

1003
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: it's an incredible testament to how I guess how well

1004
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,479
Speaker 1: he's able to pull these things off. That he said

1005
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to be president, and it was credible

1006
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: enough that she believed in, you know, because.

1007
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 3: Cause it's like, bro, come, I mean, yeah, all.

1008
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 4: These people are ambitious. You know.

1009
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: Josh Shapiro may wear it Mara heavily, but this is

1010
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: a governor of an important state. He's obviously excited to

1011
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: be in the vice presidential pick. Like, he obviously has

1012
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 1: some ambitions of his own. So the fact that he

1013
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 1: was able to pull off that line that Nana. Of course,

1014
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:55,839
Speaker 1: I don't really want to be president. I think it's

1015
00:45:55,840 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 1: the testament to the political abilities that he comes off

1016
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,760
Speaker 1: as like a genuine nice guy.

1017
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 2: Even though he's been a professional politicians is two thousand

1018
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 2: and five for like twenty years.

1019
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 4: He still comes off is.

1020
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: That like, you know, high school teacher and the nice

1021
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 1: guy coach whatever, and so he's able to pull that off.

1022
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: That's one thing that has been insane to me, Sager,

1023
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 1: is the number of people online who think that Joshapiro

1024
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,879
Speaker 1: is a better politician than Tim Walls, just like on

1025
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: the you know, oratory whatever. I just it's crazy to

1026
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: me because when I see Josh Peau, all I can

1027
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 1: see is the cheap Obama knockoff, and so you know,

1028
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 1: Walls has he's he's got his own thing going and

1029
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 1: it feels genuine, whether you like him or not, and

1030
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 1: whether you grow with his positions or not. So just

1031
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: on the pure political talent, I find that assessment to

1032
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 1: be totally crazy.

1033
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 2: I'll make the Shapiro pitch, I guess which is don't

1034
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 2: forget that or the Obama knockoff? Either one or almost

1035
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 2: won the state of Iowa for the Democratic primary in

1036
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, which was Pete Budajet.

1037
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 3: The Obama knockoff works quite.

1038
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 4: The Democratic property.

1039
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 2: I have a very lowion of Democratic boomers. No offense,

1040
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 2: but you guys love yourselves some like you know, Obama

1041
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 2: esque ty figure.

1042
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 3: Bato Rourke is another one who people liked.

1043
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 4: These people didn't do all that well sary, Yeah.

1044
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 3: But the Democratic elite loved them.

1045
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 2: So in that sense, I'm saying, like that that's who

1046
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 2: the audience and all that plays to. And when you

1047
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 2: combine that to both them, I mean, look, there's undeniable.

1048
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 2: At that Philadelphia rally, he got a massive pop.

1049
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 3: People loved him.

1050
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 2: Even the reporters on the ground were like the people

1051
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 2: who are here, they are obsessed with Joshapiro. A lot

1052
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 2: of that is also just general Democratic enthusiasm. He's got

1053
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 2: the high favorability in the state of Pennsylvania. Ultimately, what

1054
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 2: the Harris campaign found, and I'm really fascinated because I

1055
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 2: don't know to what extent this is true. They didn't

1056
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 2: believe that he could translate his personal popularity to the

1057
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 2: state of the ticket and ultimately help them win the

1058
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 2: state of Pennsylvania. Yeah, I find that hard to believe.

1059
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 2: But I mean, I just don't know how the decision

1060
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: was made and how much data was there. I haven't

1061
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 2: even seen you since Tim Walts was picked. Yeah, kind

1062
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 2: of my theory was, and this kind of bears us

1063
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 2: out too. In the today's toss ups, I really believe

1064
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 2: that they no longer view the Midwest as the tipping

1065
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 2: point because if you look at a two seventy win

1066
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,839
Speaker 2: map and you play with it, you can have Kamala

1067
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 2: lose the state of Pennsylvania but win Georgia as long

1068
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 2: as she wins Nevada. That's two hundred and seventy three

1069
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 2: electoral votes. And so with the Sun Belt, with younger people,

1070
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 2: black voters who are a lot more animated, and you

1071
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 2: got Trump literally attacking Brian Camp in the state of Georgia.

1072
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 3: I think Georgia is a lot more in play than

1073
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 3: it was previously.

1074
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 2: Wet and if you've got a chance in Nevada and

1075
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,439
Speaker 2: in Georgia, you don't have to win Pennsylvania as much.

1076
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 2: And Michigan and Wisconsin have always been razor thin PA.

1077
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 2: Even though it is the most likely tipping point state,

1078
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 2: you don't necessarily need it in a world where the

1079
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:50,240
Speaker 2: Sun Belt is way more in play, and Tim Walls

1080
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 2: is the most beloved figure by these white suburban liberals.

1081
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 3: They love him.

1082
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 2: And so if you have those people who are coming

1083
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 2: out to vote in Maricopa County and in Fulton County

1084
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 2: in Atlanta, maybe you don't need to go after the

1085
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 2: Midwest as much.

1086
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 4: I mean, let's not forget though, Tim Walls.

1087
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: He when he was in the House, the district that

1088
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: he ran it, He's actually the only Democrat who has

1089
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 1: won that district in decades. He outperformed Hillary in twenty

1090
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: sixteen by some eighteen points. Trump won that district handily

1091
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, and Tim Walls also won it by

1092
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: I think Trump won it by thirteen and Tim Walls

1093
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: still won it by three.

1094
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 4: So you know, he does have.

1095
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 1: Demonstrated ability in Midwestern sort of swingy areas. I believe

1096
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: his district was sort of like half suburban, half rural,

1097
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: and so you know, listen, yeah, our Democrat's going to

1098
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 1: win back rural America with Tim Walls. No, but all

1099
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: he needs to do is hold on to the percent

1100
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: of the like white rural vote that Joe Biden.

1101
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 4: Did and they win.

1102
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: Like that's all they have to do because all the

1103
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: other coalitions are kind of coming back together, So I

1104
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: think they feel like he is an effective messenger in

1105
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 1: terms of that, and I just feel like they there

1106
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:09,919
Speaker 1: was a lot of reporting that they did do some

1107
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: significant poll testing, and I think if it was clear that, like, oh,

1108
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 1: if you've got jos Shapiro, Pennsylvania is in the bag,

1109
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: I think that would have been very difficult to resist,

1110
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 1: very difficult. But the reporting suggests that they didn't really

1111
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: see that jos Shapiro helped them in Pennsylvania at all,

1112
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 1: that there wasn't a big electoral impact whether you put

1113
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 1: Tim Walls or Jos Shapiro on the ticket, and so

1114
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: that freed her up to go with the person that

1115
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 1: she had the more personal fit with, and also who

1116
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 1: you know, he really leaned into in the state of Minnesota,

1117
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,280
Speaker 1: They really leaned into the post Roe v. Wade environment,

1118
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: So they feel like he's a very effective messenger there.

1119
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: And then you got Pelosi and Obama saying, hey, this

1120
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 1: is your guy. I think that made it all a

1121
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: very compelling thing.

1122
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 11: I think's totally right.

1123
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 2: I recommend people watched the Counterpoints segment for me yesterday

1124
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 2: about the Steve Kornacki segment because the quibble I have,

1125
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 2: and I think you know, given the data it's fair,

1126
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 2: is that he wanted a very different environment when you've

1127
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 2: got as politics continues to buy for Kate on the

1128
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 2: rural and suburban divide, it's very clear like he activated

1129
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 2: more or white liberals and he didn't win back the

1130
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 2: same people that he ran when he was Congress. Now

1131
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that he doesn't know how to talk

1132
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 2: to those people, yeah, but he definitely didn't win them

1133
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,240
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two whenever he was up on the ballot.

1134
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 3: Now, can he help bring some of those people over? Maybe?

1135
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:22,280
Speaker 3: I mean, this is kind of the this is the case.

1136
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 2: That a lot of the the pundits were making against JD.

1137
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 2: They like, when you look at the swings that he

1138
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:29,400
Speaker 2: had in some of these working class districts, he actually

1139
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 2: drove up the vote in more in some Republican areas,

1140
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 2: but he didn't win by the margin that he was

1141
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 2: supposed to win in the rural working class voters.

1142
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 4: So I mean, he underperformed Trump in terms of performed Trump.

1143
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 3: In white working class It's complicated.

1144
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 2: Because Tim Ryan was on the ballot, But yeah, regardless,

1145
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 2: I would not say it was perfect showing for Dad.

1146
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 2: Let's all be honest, right, he only went by six.

1147
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 2: I think Trump won by eight with Tim Walls. What

1148
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 2: Steve Kornaki was saying is like, if you look at

1149
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 2: those rural districts that he was supposed to activate, it

1150
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 2: just didn't materialize last time around. That doesn't mean that

1151
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 2: rhetorically he can't try and hold on like you said,

1152
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 2: But you know, any fantasy if he's gonna like he's

1153
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 2: gonna flip votes, I don't think that's gonna happen.

1154
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, So if you've got.

1155
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 1: Like I said, he doesn't have to do better, he

1156
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 1: doesn't have to do better than the Joe Biden totals

1157
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 1: in those areas, and I think that's probably what they're

1158
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: aiming for. Go to be four guys, because this was interesting.

1159
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 1: There was a Maris poll that showed that Jos Shapiro

1160
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: had elevated negatives and was underwater in favorability with gen

1161
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 1: Z voters in particular. So if you're looking at pulling,

1162
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 1: if you're the Kamala Harris team that says Shapiro doesn't

1163
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: really help you in Pennsylvania and he brings this negative

1164
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,319
Speaker 1: to the ticket with regard to gen Z, voters, and

1165
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: I think this has to be largely because of how

1166
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 1: aggressively he talked about the pro Palestine protesters and his

1167
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:56,359
Speaker 1: positioning on Israel in general. Then you're saying, okay, well,

1168
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 1: why do I want to bring a negative onto the

1169
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 1: ticket when Walls has this cross ideological support across the

1170
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:06,280
Speaker 1: entire democratic spectrum, from Joe Mansion to Bernie Sanders literally,

1171
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,720
Speaker 1: And you know, I think it also is a statement

1172
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 1: on how the rejuvenated union movement through.

1173
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:15,919
Speaker 4: Their weight around in this process too.

1174
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: You know, we forget to talk about them, but Sean

1175
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: Fan made it very clear the you know, new leader

1176
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 1: of the the UAW who has been very strong and

1177
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 1: actually was at that rally in Detroit yesterday, he said, listen,

1178
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 1: I want Andy Basheer or Tim Walls, and he said

1179
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 1: he even said, listen, I'm with them no matter what.

1180
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 1: But those are the two that we really trust. And

1181
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 1: I do think that the fact that labor unions didn't

1182
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:39,320
Speaker 1: like Mark Kelly, labor unions did not like jos Shapiro

1183
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: because of his charter school stands as another very Obama

1184
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:43,240
Speaker 1: as position.

1185
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:45,399
Speaker 4: By the way, I think that.

1186
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 1: Also hindered them because again you're talking about Okay, a

1187
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 1: fracturing within the Democratic coalition, and you're talking about enthusiasm.

1188
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 1: You're talking about reopening wounds that you don't really want

1189
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: to have to reopen. And so you know, when you

1190
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: look at that picture and then you also think about, oh,

1191
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 1: she just liked Tim Walls better when she met with him,

1192
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: the choice makes a lot of sense and does not

1193
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 1: have to be about anti Semitism as being insisted by

1194
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 1: many across O.

1195
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's definitely a fun one. Although that discourse

1196
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 3: has mostly been killed at this point, so let's just

1197
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 3: put it.

1198
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 1: Into the Yeah, that's why I only brought it up

1199
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 1: here briefly at the end, so we can all move forward.

1200
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:20,399
Speaker 3: With our thank you.

1201
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 4: I appreciate that.

1202
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 3: I a lways go on to the attacks.

1203
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 2: After the selection of Tim Wallas's vice president, Republicans tried

1204
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 2: a variety I think of different attacks. The one though,

1205
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 2: that is beginning to stick, is claims of quote unquote

1206
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 2: stolen valor. So we are going to go through everything

1207
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 2: that we know today. It was kicked off by the

1208
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 2: vice presidential candidate for the Republican Senator JD.

1209
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 3: Vance. Here's what he had to say.

1210
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 8: What really bothers me about Tim Waltz as a Marine

1211
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 8: who served this country in uniform when the United States

1212
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 8: Marine Corps, when the United States of America asked me

1213
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 8: to go to Iraq to serve my country, I did it.

1214
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 8: I did what they asked me to do it, and

1215
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 8: I did it honorably, and I'm very proud of that service.

1216
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 8: When Tim Waltz was asked by his country to go

1217
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 8: to Iraq, you know what he did.

1218
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:02,319
Speaker 3: He dropped out of the.

1219
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 8: Army and allowed his unit to go without him, a

1220
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:08,279
Speaker 8: fact that he's been criticized for aggressively by a lot

1221
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 8: of the people that he served with. I think it's

1222
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 8: shameful to prepare your unit to go to Iraq, to

1223
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 8: make a promise that you're going to follow through, and

1224
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:16,919
Speaker 8: then to drop out.

1225
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 2: Okay, so let's go all the way back in time

1226
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 2: to two thousand and five.

1227
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 3: Crystal. You can weigh in here if he would like.

1228
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:24,280
Speaker 3: So the timeline is such.

1229
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 2: Tim Waltz is a twenty four year veteran of the

1230
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 2: Minnesota National Guard. He rises to the level of master

1231
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 2: sergeant and then is I believe I don't exactly understand

1232
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 2: how the term works, but he was then quasi promoted

1233
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:42,919
Speaker 2: to command sergeant Majors, one of the highest enlisted ranks

1234
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 2: in the United States Military, in two thousand and five.

1235
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 2: That is the tail end of his career at that

1236
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:51,319
Speaker 2: exact moment. Whenever he files to run for Congress, some

1237
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 2: four months before the deployment order comes down, there is

1238
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 2: a decision that he has to make on whether he

1239
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:00,840
Speaker 2: is going to go to Iraq with the Minnesota National

1240
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,240
Speaker 2: Guard unit that he is attached to as a senior

1241
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 2: enlisted officer for the artillery unit or not. He decides

1242
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:10,280
Speaker 2: not to go and to retire. Now there's questions here

1243
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:13,239
Speaker 2: around the retirement date. So if we look at there's

1244
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 2: two separate factors. The defense of Tim Walls is that

1245
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 2: Walls did not know that his unit was going to

1246
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 2: go to Iraq, so the retirement came two months.

1247
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 3: Before the official order.

1248
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:28,279
Speaker 2: The detractors say that the senior enlisted personnel and some

1249
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 2: people served in that unit said that they knew for

1250
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 2: months before the official order came down. I spoke some

1251
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 2: people in the military. They said, yeah, it's actually quite

1252
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 2: common before an official order comes down or not. So

1253
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 2: I would say it's somewhat believable. That is, I would

1254
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 2: say the first with these quote unquote attacks, they didn't

1255
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 2: go to Iraq whenever he helped prepare the unit for

1256
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 2: do you want to weigh in before I get to

1257
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 2: any of the others.

1258
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 1: I mean, he so the specific details Minnesota National Guard.

1259
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 1: So the unit got the alert for mobilization in July.

1260
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: He had retired two months earlier in Maye and been

1261
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:58,399
Speaker 1: playing a congressional run.

1262
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 3: So there you go, right, So that's the time.

1263
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 2: The second one cubs back to this clip where he

1264
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 2: had claimed that he had carried weapons in war while

1265
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 2: discussing gun control. So this was a quote from a

1266
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 2: video that was posted actually by the Kamala Harris campaign.

1267
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 2: This was the quote then that people are seizing on.

1268
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 2: Let's take a listen, op cool.

1269
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 6: Cup, like many of you did five weeks ago, and

1270
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:22,439
Speaker 6: dead said, Dad, you're the only person I know who's

1271
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 6: an elected office. You need to stop what's happening with this.

1272
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 6: I'll take my kick in the butt for the NRA.

1273
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 6: I spent twenty five years in the army, and I

1274
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 6: hunt and I gave the money back, and I'll tell

1275
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 6: you what I have been doing. I've been voting for

1276
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 6: common sense legislation that protects a second amendment. But we

1277
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 6: can do background checks, we can do CDC research, we

1278
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 6: can make sure we don't have reciprocal carry amongst states,

1279
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 6: and we can make sure that those weapons of war

1280
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 6: that I carried in war is the only place where

1281
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 6: those weapons.

1282
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 2: Were all right, So that last part is becoming what's

1283
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 2: significant here for the attack. Let's put this up there

1284
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 2: on the screen. The reason why is he claimed he

1285
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 2: quote carried weapons in war. Let's put NBC News up

1286
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 2: on the screen here. Asked about the video, a Harris

1287
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 2: campaign spokesperson did not deny Walts had embellished when he

1288
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 2: spoke of carrying weapons in war. They said, in his

1289
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 2: twenty four years of service, the governor carried, fired, and

1290
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 2: trained others to use weapons of war innumerable times. Governor

1291
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 2: Walsh would never insult or undermine any American service to

1292
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 2: his country. In fact, he thanks Senator Advance for putting

1293
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 2: his life on the line. It's the American way. So

1294
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 2: this has now become one of the I guess the

1295
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 2: attacks here and it kind of stems not necessarily from

1296
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 2: this one quote, but whether there's been a pattern here

1297
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 2: of claiming service that was not they did not actually

1298
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 2: happen so for example, let's put this place up on

1299
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 2: the screen. This is from a two thousand and four

1300
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 2: interview or sorry, two thousand and six interview that Wals

1301
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 2: did with Bloomberg News. So basically there is a question

1302
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 2: here of whether he claimed to Bloomberg News.

1303
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 3: Is Joshua Green, so may know him.

1304
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 2: He wrote a book about Joe Steve Bannon in twenty

1305
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 2: sixteen on whether he deployed to Iraq. So he wrote

1306
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 2: Joshua Green at that time a twenty four year veteran

1307
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 2: of the Army National Guard recently returned from serving in

1308
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 2: Iraq as part of Operation Enduring Freedom. Now this is

1309
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 2: Jeffery Ingersoll, actually my former boss over the Daily Caller.

1310
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 2: As he points out, Operation during Freedom was actually about Afghanistan.

1311
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 2: But the claim here as to whether he claimed he

1312
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 2: served in Iraq or not, Bloomberg actually came out and

1313
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 2: stealth edited it saying Italy. In this Joshua Green has

1314
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 2: not clarified whether he was told, whether he was told

1315
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 2: by Tim Walls that it had happened or not. If

1316
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 2: we go to the next part, this is the next

1317
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 2: part of the controversy, which is that the National Guard

1318
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 2: has had to come out and I mean they say

1319
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 2: dispute here, I would just say clarify. So Wals ran

1320
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 2: as a retired command sergeant major. Now apparently he actually

1321
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 2: fully retired as a master sergeant because according to the

1322
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 2: National Guard, he did not officially reach the rank. This

1323
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 2: is what I was talking about previously of command sergeant major,

1324
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 2: although he did use it in campaign materials and yeah, sorry,

1325
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 2: go ahead.

1326
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 1: He reached the rank, he didn't complete additional course work.

1327
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 4: That's right too, so you didn't check the additional course.

1328
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 3: I know this all sounds tedious.

1329
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 2: I'm going through everything just so everybody has it because

1330
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 2: the amount of misinformation and not information that is out there.

1331
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:19,240
Speaker 3: I want everybody to know the truth.

1332
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 2: Army people please fact check me if I get anything wrong.

1333
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 2: The ranks and all this are very tedious. I apologize

1334
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 2: now as I understand the retire you know, claiming thing.

1335
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 2: That's a little bit of a problem because whatever it's

1336
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 2: your d D two fourteen, whatever your paperwork that you

1337
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 2: receive upon discharge. He was discharge officially, I believe, retired

1338
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 2: as a master sergeant despite running later.

1339
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:42,080
Speaker 3: Now, why does any of this matter?

1340
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 2: Because politically, this is probably the attack that I have

1341
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 2: seen more embraced by Republicans and operatives, and it is

1342
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 2: one very familiar to the head of the Trump campaign.

1343
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 3: Let's put this up here on the screen.

1344
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 2: Chris las Svida, who was actually one of the people

1345
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 2: who helped orchestrate the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth campaign

1346
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 2: back in two thousand and four, is literally the campaign

1347
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 2: manager for Donald Trump. And so that obviously was an

1348
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 2: effort to try and to bring up questions about John

1349
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 2: Kerry's service in Vietnam from people who had served with

1350
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 2: him in the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth media campaign.

1351
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 3: That really was a big deal in two thousand and four.

1352
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 2: And the real reason too is this is part I

1353
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 2: actually I want to talk about with you, is how

1354
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:26,160
Speaker 2: effective this is going to be to say this is

1355
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 2: another swift voat.

1356
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 11: I don't think it's true.

1357
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:30,080
Speaker 2: I do think it definitely embellished military service and the

1358
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 2: weapons of war thing is straight up bullshit. The issue

1359
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 2: I think for the Trump campaign, oh four, was the

1360
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 2: security election. That was the Iraq election. That was the

1361
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 2: military elect where we're going to surge, We're not going

1362
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:42,880
Speaker 2: to surge, who's going to handle So that's why it

1363
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 2: was extremely relevant here. The issue I find only here

1364
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:50,320
Speaker 2: is that I think it helps the idea for Republicans

1365
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:53,959
Speaker 2: to run phony. Phony was the term that we saw

1366
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 2: stuck incompetent in others, doesn't believe in anything in our

1367
01:01:57,160 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 2: word clouds against Kamala Harris. If they could try and

1368
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 2: attach that label for Tim Watson, for Kamala, it will

1369
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 2: be a net benefit or not. And so it's not

1370
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 2: going to be as helpful as swift Boat was, I

1371
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 2: think in two thousand and four for the George W.

1372
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 2: Bush campaign. That's kind of where I fall on it.

1373
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 2: Although I do think, I mean, listen, should do an interview,

1374
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 2: I should tell the truth about what happened here.

1375
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 4: I think it's a better attack than tampon Tim.

1376
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 1: I think we're I think we're reaching closer to something

1377
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 1: that I mean, listen, I can tell you go through

1378
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: each of these and tell you, like, I think this

1379
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 1: is pretty flimsy. The Iraq thing doesn't really hold up

1380
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:33,240
Speaker 1: in terms of the timeline, the operation and during Freedom thing.

1381
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 4: All right, he serves in support of Operation Enduring Freedom.

1382
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 4: They have one prosper where.

1383
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 1: He says something about that and him holding up a

1384
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 1: sign at a at an anti warproce.

1385
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 3: We got that next, we want to put that up there. No,

1386
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 3: but Christy leg the one, Yeah.

1387
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 4: No, it's not.

1388
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 2: You can't clean you're a veteran if he didn't fight

1389
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 2: in the war. He literally said he was a veteran

1390
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 2: of Operation during Freedom.

1391
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 1: When I've seen inspect one of the clips that's circulating us, like, oh,

1392
01:02:57,640 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 1: we got him.

1393
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 4: He said Operation Enduring Freedom. He goes on to explain,

1394
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 4: I served in Italy in support of Operation Enduring Freedom

1395
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 4: and here's what that means. So listen. But putting all

1396
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 4: of that aside, ask yourself this question.

1397
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 1: Is anyone gonna not vote for Donald Trump because of

1398
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 1: the whole bone spurs situation?

1399
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 4: No? Why?

1400
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 1: Because number one, like you said, it's not a secure election.

1401
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 1: Number two, most importantly, he's just the type of politician

1402
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 1: who can get away with stuff like this. And I

1403
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,640
Speaker 1: think Tim Walls in contrast to John Kerrey, who was

1404
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 1: a terrible politician and also who really leaned very heavily

1405
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:36,360
Speaker 1: on his whole war hero thing in a way that

1406
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 1: Tim Walls, you know, he talks about his service, but

1407
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 1: his he identifies himself more. And Kamin was calling him,

1408
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 1: you know, coach Walls, like that's the persona he's leaning

1409
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 1: more into but we also know because these attacks against

1410
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:52,120
Speaker 1: him were came out during his gubernatorial campaign as well,

1411
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 1: he's the type of politician who can get through something

1412
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:57,480
Speaker 1: like this because we've seen him do it in the past.

1413
01:03:57,560 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 1: So that would be the biggest thing I would say

1414
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 1: is just like you know, some politicians, they really struggle

1415
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 1: when they're faced with any sort of attack or question

1416
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:08,120
Speaker 1: about et cetera, et cetera. I don't think that this

1417
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 1: will end up landing or significantly harming the appearance of walls.

1418
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 1: I think because he does come off as just like

1419
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:16,880
Speaker 1: you know, the guy that he is, I think it's

1420
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 1: hard to put that label of phony onto him. So

1421
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 1: that would be sort of my you know, political assessment

1422
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 1: putting the merits of the claims.

1423
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:25,640
Speaker 2: Well, we'll put the last one up there. Could I

1424
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 2: actually find that the worst one? Put that up there

1425
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 2: please on the screen. Well, so we should have put

1426
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 2: the article. But basically, he held up a sign where

1427
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 2: he said he was a veteran and he ran as

1428
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 2: a veteran of operation during Freedom.

1429
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 3: I wasn't even the military even I know it's bullshit.

1430
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 3: So that's actually what I would say.

1431
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 2: I find the most egregious now can he apologize and

1432
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 2: can he get his way out of it?

1433
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:46,200
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1434
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 2: I think so, And generally, I mean, this is kind

1435
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 2: of what I used say about the JD stuff as well,

1436
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 2: whenever I was worried about it. Bottom of the ticket

1437
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 2: attacks will work only to a certain extent. The top

1438
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 2: of the ticket is ultimately what matters. And yeah, Trump

1439
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 2: has himself no faith whenever he's basically got himself out

1440
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 2: of Vietnam.

1441
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:05,320
Speaker 3: Now, in terms.

1442
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:08,240
Speaker 2: Of politically, like what the overall effect of this has been,

1443
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 2: it is the only time I've seen the media begin

1444
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 2: to pick up on some of it now. Partially it's

1445
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 2: because he has the most teeth in terms of the attack.

1446
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 2: But I believe the way that the Trump campaign and

1447
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:22,240
Speaker 2: others appear to be looking at it is they feel

1448
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 2: like this is a way that they could try to

1449
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:27,320
Speaker 2: change the conversation, not necessarily about the Tim Walls thing

1450
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 2: in general, but to try and get the media to

1451
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 2: quote ask questions of Waltz. But what they want is

1452
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:35,680
Speaker 2: for them to ask questions to Kamala about this, And

1453
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 2: they want Kamala to have to be compelled to come

1454
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 2: out and ask questions not just about this, but to

1455
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:42,520
Speaker 2: be asked questions in general.

1456
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 3: So like, that's kind of how they are thinking about it.

1457
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 1: We see, I mean this is chrys losavida. This is

1458
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 1: what he gets successfully with John Carries.

1459
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:51,120
Speaker 4: He turned a strength into a weakness.

1460
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 1: Yes, and that's you know, they want to recapture that

1461
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 1: two thousand and fourths with boat Magic. And something that

1462
01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:59,439
Speaker 1: is a strength for Tim Walls is that he has

1463
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 1: this career You're based on service, whether serving in the

1464
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 1: military or being a high school teacher, which trust me,

1465
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 1: as a form of service. I I'm from a family

1466
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:09,760
Speaker 1: of teachers, or you know, being the winning football coach.

1467
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:13,000
Speaker 1: Like service, service, service, And they want to turn that

1468
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 1: into a negative. And so that's why they're really you know,

1469
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 1: honing in on this and doing everything they can possibly.

1470
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 2: Exactly the final part. It's so funny. This is just

1471
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 2: so classic Trump. One of the emerging attacks on Walls

1472
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:28,760
Speaker 2: was handling of BLM. Well, it turns out though Tim

1473
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 2: Walls has been sitting on this audio for what four years,

1474
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 2: and leaked video or leaked audio of Trump actually praising

1475
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 2: Tim Walls for his handling of the BLM protests.

1476
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:41,520
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

1477
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 9: Vern Wolves is on the phone and we spoke and

1478
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:48,640
Speaker 9: I totally agree with the way he handled it the

1479
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 9: last couple of days. I asked him to do that,

1480
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 9: and the whole world was laughing. Two days three days later,

1481
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 9: I spoke to the governor the governors, I think on

1482
01:06:57,000 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 9: the quality an excellent guy, big National Guard up there

1483
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 9: and is ready to come in a fight like Hill.

1484
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 9: I tell you, the best they did in Minneapolis was incredible.

1485
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:13,600
Speaker 9: They did win it and dominating and it happened immediately

1486
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 9: and is on the phone now, Jim Walls. Again, I

1487
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:19,360
Speaker 9: was very happy with the last couple of days. Tim,

1488
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 9: you called up big numbers and the big numbers knocked

1489
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 9: them out so fast it was like bowlings.

1490
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 3: And yeah, so uh, that's gonna be tough. That's gonna

1491
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 3: be tough for the Trump people. Yeah, it's funny.

1492
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:33,160
Speaker 2: I actually saw a lot of Rohn DeSantis boosters who

1493
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:35,160
Speaker 2: were like, yeah, this is the issue with Trump. They're like,

1494
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 2: anytime he's on the phone with and he could be

1495
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 2: on the phone with like his arch nemesis and'd be like,

1496
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 2: you're tremendous, You're an amazing person and we love her,

1497
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 2: but and then you would continue later so yeah, that's

1498
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 2: that is as Trump as it gets can't attack him

1499
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 2: if Trump is a literal opponent said that he was

1500
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:53,200
Speaker 2: doing a good job on the phone at the time.

1501
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, that makes it difficult.

1502
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 1: I mean to be honest with you, I don't know

1503
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 1: if you agree with this or not, but I don't

1504
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:00,919
Speaker 1: think that anything that happen and in the COVID era

1505
01:08:01,160 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 1: is going like whether people didn't like the decisions in COVID,

1506
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:05,960
Speaker 1: didn't like you know, what happened during BLM, what.

1507
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:09,400
Speaker 4: I just think people are moving forward totally.

1508
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 1: And this was the problem with the Desanta's campaign was

1509
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 1: that was the COVID stuff was really central to his

1510
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 1: political status within the Republican Party, and you know he

1511
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 1: wanted to lean into that and actually moved away from

1512
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:22,320
Speaker 1: it pretty quickly because people just were like, all right,

1513
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:23,760
Speaker 1: that's in the past. I don't really want to think

1514
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:25,920
Speaker 1: about it or talk about it anymore. So even if

1515
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 1: you didn't have Trump on the phone literally being like this,

1516
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 1: You've done an incredible job, was amazing, and you came in.

1517
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 4: So fast and so whatever he said, even.

1518
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:35,679
Speaker 1: If you didn't have that, I don't know that that

1519
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:40,040
Speaker 1: really sticks to walls. I think, listen, I think it's

1520
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 1: it will be difficult I think to.

1521
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:45,520
Speaker 4: Label Walls as.

1522
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:48,760
Speaker 1: Far left just because of his identity and the way

1523
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:51,840
Speaker 1: you know, white older white dudes just code is sort

1524
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 1: of moderate in America, I think.

1525
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:54,800
Speaker 4: That'll be difficult.

1526
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 1: I think, you know, the foot flop charge that you

1527
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 1: can definitely level at Kamala Harris, that is going to

1528
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:02,680
Speaker 1: be difficult. So if I were them, I would just

1529
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:04,760
Speaker 1: train their fire on Kamala Harris. I think she's more

1530
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 1: easily dinged up on your phone.

1531
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 4: You're incompetent.

1532
01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:11,720
Speaker 1: That was the big word that jumped down of our

1533
01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:14,519
Speaker 1: word clouds, like that's probably where the best juice is,

1534
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:18,200
Speaker 1: even more so than the like far left, liberal, et cetera,

1535
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:18,759
Speaker 1: et cetera.

1536
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 4: I think the.

1537
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:22,839
Speaker 1: More accurate thing, which is usually the one that lands

1538
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:24,760
Speaker 1: and has the most teeth, is you just don't know.

1539
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, you just does.

1540
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 4: This woman doesn't know where she is.

1541
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:28,400
Speaker 1: You don't know where she is, You don't know what

1542
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:30,320
Speaker 1: she's going to be one day to the next. I

1543
01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:33,200
Speaker 1: think that's probably the most effective political attack.

1544
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:33,479
Speaker 4: That they could go with.

1545
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:35,760
Speaker 2: I totally agree with you, and competent is the best

1546
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 2: I was going to say. This is another thing I

1547
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:41,200
Speaker 2: find is anyone I find still complaining about something from

1548
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. And I do this for a living, and

1549
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:47,680
Speaker 2: I probably complain and remember much better than both, even

1550
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 2: though I'm like, ah, that just doesn't hit. And I'll

1551
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:51,720
Speaker 2: tell you, I think the reason why this country has

1552
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:56,080
Speaker 2: a tremendous, you know, a tremendous capacity for amnesia. Joe

1553
01:09:56,080 --> 01:10:00,040
Speaker 2: Biden was our presidential candidate and is our president a

1554
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:02,960
Speaker 2: month ago, one month ago, Ask anybody in your life.

1555
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 3: I don't even think about Joe Biden now, an they don't,

1556
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 3: They don't think about him.

1557
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 2: Donald Trump was almost MESSI he came millimeters away from

1558
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 2: getting his head split open on national television. Both he

1559
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 2: and everybody else has completely moved on from that. That

1560
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:19,760
Speaker 2: was again, not even a month ago. And so so

1561
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:21,840
Speaker 2: you're talking to me about four years ago. I'm like,

1562
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of analysis has actually been done.

1563
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:28,760
Speaker 2: If you look at people's political attitudes after pandemics, just

1564
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 2: because it happened a one hundred years ago, by two

1565
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:34,080
Speaker 2: years after the nineteen eighteen people are like, what, who flew?

1566
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:36,040
Speaker 2: What what are you talking about? They don't even think

1567
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:38,680
Speaker 2: about it, and way more people died percentage ways at

1568
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 2: that time. There's an incredible capacity for amnesia. Within humanity

1569
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 2: and especially in our modern media environment, anybody's relitigating some

1570
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:49,960
Speaker 2: from four years ago. I mean even somebody who tells

1571
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:52,040
Speaker 2: me but remember when this, If they're trying to run

1572
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:54,719
Speaker 2: on something Kamma said in twenty sixteen, I'm like, guys

1573
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:56,679
Speaker 2: like this just so long ago. I mean, the only

1574
01:10:56,720 --> 01:10:59,879
Speaker 2: reason the Kama flip flop is relevant today is because

1575
01:11:00,160 --> 01:11:03,680
Speaker 2: she basically had no policy position and it was the

1576
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:06,880
Speaker 2: default up until now, and now she's changing what she did.

1577
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:09,360
Speaker 2: So I think that's relevant and that's you know, correct today.

1578
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 2: But if you're trying to say something that she said

1579
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 2: twenty twelve or whatever, I'm like, that's rough, man. I

1580
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:17,880
Speaker 2: just don't think it sticks both in the media environment today,

1581
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 2: and it doesn't hit home for what Americans want. Americans

1582
01:11:21,439 --> 01:11:24,559
Speaker 2: want change, they want something new, and they want to

1583
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 2: move forward, and we're doing that. That in general just

1584
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:31,000
Speaker 2: captures some of the most successful campaigns that we've ever

1585
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:34,080
Speaker 2: seen Obama Change. I mean, just the word change became

1586
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:37,320
Speaker 2: synonymous with this campaigns, probably the most brilliant political moves

1587
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 2: ever because it doesn't mean anything, but it also means everything.

1588
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:40,320
Speaker 3: And that's what you want.

1589
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:42,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly and that's what the Harris people are

1590
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:44,400
Speaker 1: clearly trying to seize on.

1591
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:45,840
Speaker 4: And you know the fact that she.

1592
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 1: Looks, feel sounds different gives her a real leg up

1593
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:52,720
Speaker 1: in that competition. And so, I mean you can see

1594
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:56,160
Speaker 1: Republicans are struggling to figure out where they want to be,

1595
01:11:56,240 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 1: how they want to approach this, coming up with a

1596
01:11:58,160 --> 01:12:01,000
Speaker 1: consistent messaging message. And you know, for people who are

1597
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:03,439
Speaker 1: hopeful about the Harris Walls ticket, like, they are going

1598
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:05,479
Speaker 1: to find some things that are going to work right there.

1599
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:08,280
Speaker 1: They are going to have some ads up and come

1600
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:10,320
Speaker 1: up with some lines of attack that are going to

1601
01:12:10,360 --> 01:12:12,599
Speaker 1: have some teeth that are going to be more effective

1602
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:15,120
Speaker 1: than let's say, tamp on Tim. But I think they're

1603
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:18,200
Speaker 1: still going through that, going through that process of workshopping

1604
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:20,719
Speaker 1: things on the fly and seeing what might actually stick.

1605
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:21,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll see.

1606
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:24,120
Speaker 1: All right, let's go ahead and get to some horrific

1607
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:27,160
Speaker 1: updates coming out of Israel. And I just want to

1608
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:30,400
Speaker 1: warn everyone trigger warning here before I show this video.

1609
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 1: I find it deeply disturbing and you probably will too.

1610
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:36,400
Speaker 1: We've been discussing for a while on this show the

1611
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:41,599
Speaker 1: horrific abuse and torture and rape of Palestinine prisoners at

1612
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 1: this Israeli prison camp. You had a number of soldiers

1613
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 1: who were initially arrested, although I believe now they've all

1614
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:51,839
Speaker 1: been released, were arrested by these Raelies because of raping

1615
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:55,040
Speaker 1: a Palestinin prisoner, specifically sodomizing him.

1616
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:56,559
Speaker 4: And there were.

1617
01:12:56,520 --> 01:13:01,760
Speaker 1: Riots that broke out in including government in defense of

1618
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:04,599
Speaker 1: those soldiers who u and let's go ahead and put

1619
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:07,960
Speaker 1: the video up on the screen while I'm talking, who

1620
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 1: were on camera while they were committing this rape.

1621
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:15,880
Speaker 4: So I'm going to play this out.

1622
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:18,880
Speaker 1: You can see them getting the prisoner up, they're going

1623
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:23,360
Speaker 1: to walk him over, They're going to shield themselves because

1624
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 1: apparently they know.

1625
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:25,759
Speaker 4: That they're being recorded.

1626
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:29,120
Speaker 1: I believe this is like being live streamed into IDF headquarters,

1627
01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 1: and so they shield what's going on with literal shields.

1628
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 1: But you know, this is where the horrific sexual assaults occurs.

1629
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 1: And you know the fact that there's video evidence and

1630
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:47,720
Speaker 1: the fact that we have multiple mainstream media reports that

1631
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:53,639
Speaker 1: say this was not an isolated incident that particular person

1632
01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:55,679
Speaker 1: and we can take this down now. That particular prisoner

1633
01:13:56,040 --> 01:14:00,240
Speaker 1: sustained horrific injuries, and that's part of why they felt

1634
01:14:00,280 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 1: that they had to at least initially arrest these soldiers.

1635
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:06,200
Speaker 1: They're also playing a bit of a political game here

1636
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:09,080
Speaker 1: with regard to the ICJ, the ICC and also some

1637
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 1: countries that are putting pressure on them of trying to

1638
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:13,599
Speaker 1: show through you know, a case or two.

1639
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:15,360
Speaker 4: Oh, of course we hold our people.

1640
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:17,519
Speaker 1: Accountable, but again, when you look at the body of evidence,

1641
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:21,400
Speaker 1: this was part of systematic torture and abuse of these

1642
01:14:21,439 --> 01:14:26,240
Speaker 1: prisoners that occurred regularly. So to show you the way

1643
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 1: that this is all being received within the state of Israel,

1644
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:32,120
Speaker 1: I mean, this is I don't even know what to

1645
01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:36,040
Speaker 1: say about this. They were debating on one of the

1646
01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:39,080
Speaker 1: Israeli news channels, and this is a quote unquote journalist

1647
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:44,479
Speaker 1: for an Israeli daily newspaper who's arguing in favor of

1648
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:49,559
Speaker 1: raping Palestinian prisoners and actually complains that the only problem

1649
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:54,400
Speaker 1: he sees is that this isn't systematized, which actually there's

1650
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:56,799
Speaker 1: a question about whether or not it is. The UN report,

1651
01:14:56,880 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 1: the Pramila patent report suggested that it was probably systematized.

1652
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:02,800
Speaker 4: Put this up on the scramma to do my best

1653
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:03,559
Speaker 4: to read the subtitles.

1654
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:05,840
Speaker 1: He says, I don't give a rats ask what they

1655
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:07,760
Speaker 1: did to that Hamasman. I always remember, first of all,

1656
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:09,679
Speaker 1: the only thing that is a problem for me here

1657
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:12,240
Speaker 1: is that it's not a regulated policy of the state

1658
01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:16,000
Speaker 1: to abuse the detainees. He goes on, first of all,

1659
01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:18,679
Speaker 1: they deserve it, and it's great revenge that we need

1660
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:22,120
Speaker 1: to give them, and secondly, maybe it will also serve

1661
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:25,679
Speaker 1: as a little bore as a deterrent. And he goes

1662
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:33,680
Speaker 1: on from there, so unbelievable, unbelievable. And you know, I

1663
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:36,240
Speaker 1: have been certainly a critic of our country and very

1664
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:38,439
Speaker 1: much a critic of our country in terms of our

1665
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:43,320
Speaker 1: support of what is happening here and our inability to

1666
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:46,640
Speaker 1: criticize even these sort of horrific abuses.

1667
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:48,240
Speaker 4: But I have never.

1668
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:52,360
Speaker 1: Seen anything approaching this sort of argument being made in

1669
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:55,519
Speaker 1: public in the US on any sort of cable news channel, etc.

1670
01:15:55,920 --> 01:15:57,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I was saying about that interview we

1671
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:00,000
Speaker 2: did with that liberal Zionist. I mean, they're out of control,

1672
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:04,240
Speaker 2: like their society and their civil society is being posted to.

1673
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:07,439
Speaker 3: The literal brink. Where what are the hell are they going.

1674
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:10,040
Speaker 2: To look like after this, Like a couple of years

1675
01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:13,280
Speaker 2: from now, when you open the Overton window to this

1676
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:16,479
Speaker 2: type of activity and then the you know, basically theak

1677
01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:19,559
Speaker 2: the breakdown of literal rule of law and a basic

1678
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:22,080
Speaker 2: military justice. That irony too is like you know, you

1679
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:24,920
Speaker 2: can hate the IDF all you want for the generals

1680
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:27,320
Speaker 2: are the ones who want to prosecute these guys, but

1681
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:31,200
Speaker 2: then they are beholden to these far right wing protesters

1682
01:16:31,200 --> 01:16:35,360
Speaker 2: and like paramilitary style groups who are trying to break

1683
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:38,760
Speaker 2: them out. So the secular religious divide and then the

1684
01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:41,840
Speaker 2: nationalist divide and all that has now reached a point

1685
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:45,679
Speaker 2: where they have a literal hostage of the government of

1686
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:48,600
Speaker 2: this very powerful state Yea, with a monopoly on the

1687
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 2: use of force in the entire region and with nuclear weapons.

1688
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:55,679
Speaker 1: I would add, yes, that's right, and this.

1689
01:16:55,680 --> 01:16:58,160
Speaker 4: Sentiment has become quite mainstream.

1690
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:00,760
Speaker 1: I don't know what the numbers are, but you can

1691
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:03,719
Speaker 1: see by the fact that you have Lakut party ministers

1692
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:06,920
Speaker 1: which kud is the governing party BB not in Nahuis party,

1693
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:10,600
Speaker 1: who are making arguments such as this and protesting in

1694
01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:15,080
Speaker 1: support of these soldiers who raped on camera a Palaestinian prisoner.

1695
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:18,600
Speaker 1: Also really worth remembering, which we've also learned from the

1696
01:17:18,720 --> 01:17:21,200
Speaker 1: reporting on the ground that yes, I'm sure some of

1697
01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:24,360
Speaker 1: the prisoners who are being held are in fact Hamas

1698
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 1: or Palastinian. As long as you had militants, many of

1699
01:17:27,479 --> 01:17:31,080
Speaker 1: them are just Palestinian men who got swept up because

1700
01:17:31,160 --> 01:17:34,879
Speaker 1: if you are a Palestinian man, you are automatically suspect,

1701
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:38,559
Speaker 1: you are automatically assumed to be quote unquote Hamas. Not

1702
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:42,240
Speaker 1: that even if this is a Hamas individual, obviously that

1703
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:46,080
Speaker 1: doesn't excuse anything whatsoever, because if you are a civilized

1704
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:49,879
Speaker 1: people and country, this is not how you treat anyone.

1705
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:51,600
Speaker 4: So horrifying.

1706
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 1: There, our own Ryan Grimm did a fantastic job, of course,

1707
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:59,400
Speaker 1: pressing State Department spokesperson slash School Matthew Miller on Hey,

1708
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:03,479
Speaker 1: now they're running this open torture camp. It's very clear,

1709
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:06,840
Speaker 1: we have multiple documented instances, and now we have this

1710
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:10,160
Speaker 1: rape on camera. What do you think, US government? How

1711
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:12,080
Speaker 1: do you feel about this? And of course you get

1712
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:15,400
Speaker 1: nothing but denial, dodging, obfuscation as usual.

1713
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:16,560
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen.

1714
01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:19,360
Speaker 12: Finally on this, like this rape and torture center, that

1715
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:21,960
Speaker 12: seems to be pretty clear. All sides seem to agree

1716
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:24,720
Speaker 12: that horrible things are taking place here. How is it

1717
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:26,800
Speaker 12: still open? Does the US believe that it needs to

1718
01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:28,160
Speaker 12: be closed at this point, and.

1719
01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:32,200
Speaker 7: Just so, we believe that all of the investigation, all

1720
01:18:32,280 --> 01:18:35,719
Speaker 7: of the allegations need to be fully investigated, and anyone

1721
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:37,960
Speaker 7: responsible needs to be held accountable. I think that's the

1722
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:41,200
Speaker 7: appropriate first step before moving to anything else. We have

1723
01:18:41,240 --> 01:18:46,800
Speaker 7: seen the video and reports of sexual abuse of detainees

1724
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:51,160
Speaker 7: are horrific. They ought to be investigated fully by the

1725
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:54,000
Speaker 7: government of Israel, by the idef ought.

1726
01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:56,760
Speaker 1: To be investigated fully by Israel. I'm sure, I'm sure

1727
01:18:56,800 --> 01:18:57,360
Speaker 1: they're going to.

1728
01:18:57,320 --> 01:19:01,400
Speaker 2: Be and that look by actually considering that we were

1729
01:19:01,439 --> 01:19:06,040
Speaker 2: all basically gaslt about fake rape claims on October seventh,

1730
01:19:06,360 --> 01:19:08,760
Speaker 2: and it was held up by our president, by their

1731
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:11,879
Speaker 2: government and by our media, and this one is on camera.

1732
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:15,000
Speaker 2: That's look, what really drives me crazy is the hypocrisy. Like,

1733
01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:17,760
Speaker 2: that's actually where I just come down. I'm like, what

1734
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:21,360
Speaker 2: are we doing? Why are we Why are we subverting

1735
01:19:21,400 --> 01:19:24,400
Speaker 2: ourselves to this client state that it's supposed to be

1736
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:28,960
Speaker 2: a reverse relationship, but they just can't help themselves. And

1737
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:32,000
Speaker 2: look again, for the Israelis, I think domestically what's been

1738
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:35,120
Speaker 2: happening over there, especially recently, is crazy and is going

1739
01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:37,679
Speaker 2: to be so detrimental to them in the long run,

1740
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:40,439
Speaker 2: not only in terms of international legitimacy, but their own

1741
01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:43,160
Speaker 2: domestic populace. I mean, when you straight up can't prevent

1742
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:46,080
Speaker 2: prisoners in a jail from being set free and having

1743
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:49,360
Speaker 2: right wing or like protesters be hostage, you don't have

1744
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:51,240
Speaker 2: rule of law as a country anymore. You straight up

1745
01:19:51,280 --> 01:19:53,120
Speaker 2: it's over. And this is a tiny ass country. This

1746
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:55,280
Speaker 2: is not the United States of America. You can't even

1747
01:19:55,360 --> 01:19:57,800
Speaker 2: argue federalism or local or any of that. I mean,

1748
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:01,120
Speaker 2: this is a small population, small place, and when they

1749
01:20:01,160 --> 01:20:03,920
Speaker 2: have control over nukes and all this, who knows what's

1750
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:05,719
Speaker 2: going to happen there in the next ten years.

1751
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:06,800
Speaker 3: It's a big problem.

1752
01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:07,559
Speaker 4: About in the next ten days.

1753
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:11,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you know, we're really on the brink here,

1754
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:13,120
Speaker 1: and you know, I think we're all surprised that we

1755
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:15,479
Speaker 1: haven't seen the Iranian response yet. But no, that has

1756
01:20:15,479 --> 01:20:17,679
Speaker 1: a blow response yet. But that doesn't mean that it's

1757
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:19,920
Speaker 1: not coming. In fact, in some ways, the length of

1758
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:23,760
Speaker 1: time that has gone by between the provocation and the

1759
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:27,320
Speaker 1: expected attack is deeply worrying. So yeah, I mean, you

1760
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:29,559
Speaker 1: have a society is completely hinge, And I don't throw

1761
01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:32,320
Speaker 1: the Nazi word around freely. But there is no other

1762
01:20:32,360 --> 01:20:34,840
Speaker 1: way to describe the rhetoric and the ideology that was

1763
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:38,120
Speaker 1: being expressed on that television program, and the fact that

1764
01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:42,560
Speaker 1: that has become a mainstream enough view that the military

1765
01:20:42,640 --> 01:20:45,760
Speaker 1: is afraid to act to, you know, adjudicate our whole

1766
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:51,000
Speaker 1: accountable even the most egregious and obviously well founded abuses,

1767
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:54,920
Speaker 1: is a terrifying state of affairs from our great friends,

1768
01:20:54,960 --> 01:20:56,360
Speaker 1: the Israeli governments.

1769
01:20:56,640 --> 01:21:00,800
Speaker 3: Really crazy, Chris, what are you taking all well?

1770
01:21:00,960 --> 01:21:04,679
Speaker 1: When LBJ was considering joining JFK's ticket, he was famously

1771
01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:07,519
Speaker 1: counseled by former Vice President John Nance Garner that there

1772
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:10,120
Speaker 1: wasn't much to be gained from the VP slot. As

1773
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:13,120
Speaker 1: Garner colorfully put it, the vice presidency was quote not

1774
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 1: worth a bucket of warm piss.

1775
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:16,200
Speaker 4: Now Trump and JD.

1776
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:18,679
Speaker 1: Vance both been desperately trying to convince themselves that's actually

1777
01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:21,280
Speaker 1: the case. After Trump's own pick rapidly descended into heavy

1778
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:24,200
Speaker 1: negative ratings. When asked if Vance was ready to serve

1779
01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:27,360
Speaker 1: on day one, Trump dumard before insisting that electorally the

1780
01:21:27,439 --> 01:21:30,280
Speaker 1: vice presidential pick, it really doesn't matter. Vance has, in

1781
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:32,840
Speaker 1: humiliating fashion, picked up the talking point of insisting that

1782
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:36,280
Speaker 1: his existence is really utterly inconsequential. This is, of course

1783
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:39,479
Speaker 1: extreme cope, even if we're just talking electorally. Biden mattered

1784
01:21:39,479 --> 01:21:42,320
Speaker 1: for Obama's election, Palin matter for McCain's loss, and Pence

1785
01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:44,080
Speaker 1: mattered for Trump's twenty sixteen victory.

1786
01:21:44,520 --> 01:21:46,880
Speaker 4: As for LBJ, he took the job, of course.

1787
01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:49,400
Speaker 1: Because he understood that's become vice president is to be

1788
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:52,960
Speaker 1: placed on a likely path to power. Think George hw

1789
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:55,519
Speaker 1: Bush running and winning after being VP for Reagan al

1790
01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:58,360
Speaker 1: Gore winning the Democratic nomination, of course, losing to Bush

1791
01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:01,719
Speaker 1: and Kamala Harris's sudden elevation to the top of the ticket.

1792
01:22:02,080 --> 01:22:04,800
Speaker 1: But in my opinion, the significance of Tim Walls could

1793
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:08,120
Speaker 1: be even more far reaching than that. Walls's selection has

1794
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:12,080
Speaker 1: added weight because of the amorphous nature of Kamala's own ideology,

1795
01:22:12,320 --> 01:22:15,840
Speaker 1: due to how Walls breaks the mold of typical Democratic politicians,

1796
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:19,080
Speaker 1: and most of all, because his selection comes at a

1797
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:22,479
Speaker 1: pivot point in history when voters are desperate to shed

1798
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:24,960
Speaker 1: the neoliberalism of the last forty years but have not

1799
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:28,599
Speaker 1: yet settled on what might come next. In fact, Walls

1800
01:22:28,760 --> 01:22:32,160
Speaker 1: could just end up being the most consequential Vice presidential pick.

1801
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:35,519
Speaker 1: Since LBJ let me make the case so uptill morning

1802
01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:38,320
Speaker 1: the announcement, I really personally couldn't quite believe Kamala might

1803
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:39,559
Speaker 1: actually select Walls.

1804
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:40,360
Speaker 4: Just think about it.

1805
01:22:40,439 --> 01:22:43,240
Speaker 1: Her choice came down to a literal Obama mimic in

1806
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:45,719
Speaker 1: Josh Shapiro. And I'm not just talking about the caden's

1807
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:48,479
Speaker 1: and mannerisms. He's got the legal background Obama and literally

1808
01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:50,599
Speaker 1: every other Democratic ticket has had for decades.

1809
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:52,040
Speaker 4: Like Obama, he kept.

1810
01:22:52,040 --> 01:22:56,040
Speaker 1: Unions at arm's length, even mirroring Obama's school voucher and

1811
01:22:56,120 --> 01:22:59,280
Speaker 1: charter school friendly approach. Shapiro was the darling of the

1812
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:02,439
Speaker 1: Democratic conscier class and the pro Israel donor set, and

1813
01:23:02,479 --> 01:23:05,040
Speaker 1: these are the types of groups that typically get their way,

1814
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:09,160
Speaker 1: and Shapiro is the type of highly educated technocrat who

1815
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:13,920
Speaker 1: Democratic elites have found absolutely irresistible. But in what came

1816
01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:17,320
Speaker 1: to me as an absolute shock, Kamala instead selected the

1817
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:20,879
Speaker 1: most diverse pick the Democratic Party has perhaps ever made.

1818
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:24,559
Speaker 1: He's diverse in that his entirely ordinary, everyman life is

1819
01:23:24,680 --> 01:23:27,280
Speaker 1: rare to the point of near non existence in Washington.

1820
01:23:27,560 --> 01:23:29,959
Speaker 1: A veteran who went to a state school before transitioning

1821
01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:32,840
Speaker 1: to become a public school teacher and football coach. This

1822
01:23:32,920 --> 01:23:35,519
Speaker 1: man literally just traveled to San Francisco for the first

1823
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:38,759
Speaker 1: time ever this year. He wasn't a lawyer like Kamala

1824
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:41,360
Speaker 1: and Obama, or a ventry guy like Vance, or a

1825
01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:45,679
Speaker 1: billionaire like Trump. Walls literally doesn't even own any stocks, bonds,

1826
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:48,800
Speaker 1: real estate, crypto investments of any kind outside of his

1827
01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:51,479
Speaker 1: state pensions. He's never had a book deal, He's never

1828
01:23:51,479 --> 01:23:55,360
Speaker 1: done a paid speaking gig. It's actually unbelievable and diametrically

1829
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:58,640
Speaker 1: opposed to the current makeup of the Democratic Party. But

1830
01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:02,080
Speaker 1: Wall's most clearly shadowed the typical Democratic Party mold by

1831
01:24:02,840 --> 01:24:06,200
Speaker 1: actually being interested in delivering policy wins for working people

1832
01:24:06,240 --> 01:24:09,639
Speaker 1: around simply having power for the sake of having power.

1833
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:12,920
Speaker 1: As he said last year, quote, you don't win elections

1834
01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:17,000
Speaker 1: to bank political capital. You win elections to burn political

1835
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:21,200
Speaker 1: capital and improve lives. Can you think of an ideology

1836
01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:24,519
Speaker 1: more foreign to a national Democratic party obsessed with finding

1837
01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:28,320
Speaker 1: excuses for inaction than this stated commitment to taking the

1838
01:24:28,360 --> 01:24:31,240
Speaker 1: reins and throwing your weight around. The list of policy

1839
01:24:31,240 --> 01:24:34,400
Speaker 1: accomplishments Walls pushed through with a one vote majority is

1840
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:36,720
Speaker 1: quite astounding. Kle has been touting this record for a

1841
01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:40,679
Speaker 1: while now. It includes universal free school meals, working class

1842
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:43,840
Speaker 1: tax rebates, free college for anyone earning under eighty K,

1843
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:46,960
Speaker 1: twelve weeks paid family and sick leave on unions. He

1844
01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:50,879
Speaker 1: instituted sectoral bargaining for nursing home workers, ban noncompete clauses,

1845
01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:53,600
Speaker 1: and ban captive audience meetings. And this is really just

1846
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:56,519
Speaker 1: the tip of the iceberg. The Minnesota Democrat Farm Labor

1847
01:24:56,560 --> 01:24:57,320
Speaker 1: Party called.

1848
01:24:57,120 --> 01:25:00,160
Speaker 4: It the LSG agenda. Let's fucking go.

1849
01:25:00,760 --> 01:25:04,280
Speaker 1: Walls's house record, while overall more centristy, includes some real

1850
01:25:04,320 --> 01:25:04,720
Speaker 1: gems too.

1851
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:07,479
Speaker 4: We actually stood up to Obama on TPP fast track authority.

1852
01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:10,360
Speaker 1: He appears to be sort of instinctively anti warr opposed

1853
01:25:10,360 --> 01:25:12,960
Speaker 1: both the Iraq War and the bombing of Syria. But

1854
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:15,160
Speaker 1: it's not just Walls's break from the typical dem mold

1855
01:25:15,160 --> 01:25:19,280
Speaker 1: of virtue, signaling and inaction that matters, both electorally and substantively.

1856
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:22,679
Speaker 1: This agenda puts pretend pro family populace like JD Vance

1857
01:25:22,680 --> 01:25:25,759
Speaker 1: and the supposedly newly pro worker GOP in quite a bind.

1858
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:29,160
Speaker 1: Asa Bamari wrote and a Peace warning Republicans about Walls's

1859
01:25:29,160 --> 01:25:31,840
Speaker 1: populous strength based on his rock solid pro family record,

1860
01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:32,360
Speaker 1: of achievement.

1861
01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:32,879
Speaker 4: Quote.

1862
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:36,200
Speaker 1: It's the sort of legislation that self proclaimed pro family

1863
01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:39,559
Speaker 1: Republicans have too long resisted, even as they have lamented

1864
01:25:39,680 --> 01:25:43,120
Speaker 1: declining marriage and birth rates. There's a reason these types

1865
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:46,759
Speaker 1: of Republicans resist simple and popular agenda items. It's because

1866
01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:49,240
Speaker 1: child tax credit, family paid family leave, and the like.

1867
01:25:49,560 --> 01:25:53,160
Speaker 1: They're all coded as liberal. The only real consistent Republican

1868
01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:56,800
Speaker 1: ideology is worshiping Trump and owning the Libs. That's why Vance,

1869
01:25:56,840 --> 01:25:59,120
Speaker 1: for example, can't just say he supports family leave or

1870
01:25:59,120 --> 01:26:01,439
Speaker 1: a child tax credit and studies got a pure edgy

1871
01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:04,400
Speaker 1: by ostentatiously offending a large group of people a la

1872
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:07,360
Speaker 1: childless cat ladies. Or he's got to advocate for some

1873
01:26:07,400 --> 01:26:10,719
Speaker 1: bizarre and constitutional hair brain scheme like letting parents cast

1874
01:26:10,760 --> 01:26:13,400
Speaker 1: more votes than non parents. Trump, for his part, doesn't

1875
01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:15,840
Speaker 1: even really pretend to care about any of this. In

1876
01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:18,120
Speaker 1: other words, Democrats are finally showing up to play in

1877
01:26:18,120 --> 01:26:21,840
Speaker 1: the battle for what comes after neoliberalism, and Republicans, outflanked

1878
01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:25,200
Speaker 1: now on populism, find themselves flailing around talking about tampons,

1879
01:26:25,240 --> 01:26:27,760
Speaker 1: definitely trying to recreate some swift boat magic from two

1880
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:31,880
Speaker 1: thousand and four, hurling around accusations about anti Semitic microaggressions

1881
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:35,400
Speaker 1: and inventing Olympic gender controversies, which, yes, to both voters,

1882
01:26:35,439 --> 01:26:38,840
Speaker 1: that all seems pretty weird. With another candidate and another time,

1883
01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:41,439
Speaker 1: Wallas's record as the vice presidential pick might be as

1884
01:26:41,479 --> 01:26:44,000
Speaker 1: important as that bucket of warm piss. But this is

1885
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:46,839
Speaker 1: not a normal time, and Kamala is not a normal candidate.

1886
01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:48,639
Speaker 1: A look at her long history in the public eye

1887
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:51,519
Speaker 1: leaves one fairly convinced she has no real ideology, no

1888
01:26:51,640 --> 01:26:54,240
Speaker 1: real core beliefs. There seems to be no commitment on

1889
01:26:54,280 --> 01:26:56,719
Speaker 1: which he won't ben, no principle on which she won't budge.

1890
01:26:56,760 --> 01:26:59,040
Speaker 1: She has sat for no interviews since Biden's dropout. She

1891
01:26:59,080 --> 01:27:02,040
Speaker 1: has hastily dropped previous policy commitments that she personally found

1892
01:27:02,040 --> 01:27:05,080
Speaker 1: to be unhelpful. She appears easily moved by whoever happens

1893
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:07,320
Speaker 1: to have her ear, and now Tim Walls he's got

1894
01:27:07,320 --> 01:27:09,760
Speaker 1: her ear. She could have picked the Obama clone, and

1895
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:12,559
Speaker 1: instead she chose FDR in a Camo hat. Now this

1896
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:15,040
Speaker 1: should not trick you into thinking Kamala is herself secretly

1897
01:27:15,080 --> 01:27:17,920
Speaker 1: pining to be FDR. Actually it indicates something that to

1898
01:27:17,960 --> 01:27:20,640
Speaker 1: me is far more important. And far more exciting for

1899
01:27:20,760 --> 01:27:25,760
Speaker 1: the ambitious power seeking politician with no discernible ideological commitments.

1900
01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:29,639
Speaker 1: It is more politically expedient to seek out the modern

1901
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:34,439
Speaker 1: new dealer than the technocratic neolip. Kamala reportedly did extensive

1902
01:27:34,439 --> 01:27:38,559
Speaker 1: pull testing before making her choice. Ruthless operators Obama and

1903
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:42,599
Speaker 1: Pelosi both reportedly lined up behind Walls as well. Yes,

1904
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:45,320
Speaker 1: Kamala may have enjoyed his affable demeanor and non threatening

1905
01:27:45,320 --> 01:27:48,160
Speaker 1: answers as opposed to the blind ambition oozing out of Shapiro,

1906
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:51,759
Speaker 1: but ultimately she and her team made a hard nosed,

1907
01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:54,840
Speaker 1: data driven political decision, and for one of the first

1908
01:27:54,880 --> 01:27:59,080
Speaker 1: times ever, that calculus led to an unambiguously good and

1909
01:27:59,200 --> 01:28:02,320
Speaker 1: populist result. Well, personally, I can't think of anything that

1910
01:28:02,439 --> 01:28:05,000
Speaker 1: is more exciting as for that path to power, I

1911
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:06,960
Speaker 1: got to tell you today, I think Kumlin Walls do

1912
01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:09,680
Speaker 1: defeat Trump advance. The vibes, as they say, are off

1913
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:12,720
Speaker 1: the charts. But whether she loses or wins, Walls is

1914
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:15,760
Speaker 1: now in the pole position to be the next Democratic nominee,

1915
01:28:15,920 --> 01:28:18,800
Speaker 1: noving Walls as opposed to Shapiro, Mark Kelly at all

1916
01:28:19,080 --> 01:28:21,599
Speaker 1: setting the course for the future of the Democratic Party

1917
01:28:22,040 --> 01:28:25,960
Speaker 1: is actually quite consequential. Instead of a lawyer rerunning the

1918
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:28,920
Speaker 1: Obama playbook, we've got a Midwestern populist trained in the

1919
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:32,040
Speaker 1: Paul Wellstone school, so disinterested in the success of the

1920
01:28:32,040 --> 01:28:34,679
Speaker 1: stock market that he literally doesn't own a single security.

1921
01:28:35,160 --> 01:28:37,280
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean the battle is one far from it. US

1922
01:28:37,360 --> 01:28:39,360
Speaker 1: is still aiding a genocide. The world sits on the

1923
01:28:39,400 --> 01:28:42,240
Speaker 1: precipice of a massive war crafts or emerging an economy

1924
01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:44,840
Speaker 1: that was already far too geared towards the wealthy and

1925
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:47,800
Speaker 1: Wall Street goruls and billionaires. They still brazenly throw their

1926
01:28:47,800 --> 01:28:49,679
Speaker 1: cash around to extract political favors.

1927
01:28:49,760 --> 01:28:51,040
Speaker 4: All of that's still true.

1928
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:55,439
Speaker 1: There is nothing inevitable about progress, but the width of

1929
01:28:55,560 --> 01:28:59,080
Speaker 1: possibility is in the air, and that, frankly, is far

1930
01:28:59,160 --> 01:29:01,640
Speaker 1: more than I was expected just a month ago. Now,

1931
01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:03,760
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight, I naively believed in the

1932
01:29:03,760 --> 01:29:06,280
Speaker 1: promise of hope and change, the idea one guy could

1933
01:29:06,280 --> 01:29:09,120
Speaker 1: come out of nowhere and be totally transformational, charting a

1934
01:29:09,160 --> 01:29:12,679
Speaker 1: new course for the country. Everything about that political lens

1935
01:29:12,920 --> 01:29:15,360
Speaker 1: was dead wrong. Obama is just Bill Clinton politics in

1936
01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:18,360
Speaker 1: a cool modern disguise, and I now believe that the

1937
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:23,799
Speaker 1: political moment is more important than the individual personality. Walls

1938
01:29:23,880 --> 01:29:25,840
Speaker 1: is a sent coming on the heels of some Biden

1939
01:29:25,880 --> 01:29:30,439
Speaker 1: shifts towards domestic populism. Is evidence that perhaps the era

1940
01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:34,880
Speaker 1: has shifted, that the anti populism practiced by neoliberal technocrats

1941
01:29:34,920 --> 01:29:37,559
Speaker 1: is on the wane, and a new logic is on

1942
01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:40,480
Speaker 1: the way in that the best of the Biden administration

1943
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:43,720
Speaker 1: on unions and anti trust and industrial policy wasn't a

1944
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:46,960
Speaker 1: blip but a beginning, that the labor movement is coming

1945
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:49,800
Speaker 1: back to life and exerting real pressure and influence, along

1946
01:29:49,840 --> 01:29:53,040
Speaker 1: with other left organizing like the Uncommitted Movement. So though

1947
01:29:53,080 --> 01:29:55,559
Speaker 1: you may find a cringe, I do find myself once

1948
01:29:55,600 --> 01:29:58,759
Speaker 1: again filled with hope, not for a savior, though, because

1949
01:29:58,800 --> 01:30:01,320
Speaker 1: what is most important about Wall isn't who he is,

1950
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:06,240
Speaker 1: but a possible shift he represents. And it is because

1951
01:30:06,320 --> 01:30:08,800
Speaker 1: Kamala is so devoid of any And if you.

1952
01:30:08,800 --> 01:30:11,519
Speaker 2: Want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue, become a

1953
01:30:11,560 --> 01:30:14,439
Speaker 2: premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com.

1954
01:30:17,400 --> 01:30:20,360
Speaker 1: So here with the aforementioned reporting on sanctions, and also

1955
01:30:20,439 --> 01:30:22,040
Speaker 1: weigh in a little bit on the conversation Saga and

1956
01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:23,800
Speaker 1: I were just having with regards to Tim Walls is

1957
01:30:23,840 --> 01:30:24,360
Speaker 1: Jeff Steining.

1958
01:30:24,360 --> 01:30:25,000
Speaker 4: Great to see Jeff.

1959
01:30:25,000 --> 01:30:25,639
Speaker 3: Good to see you, sir.

1960
01:30:25,720 --> 01:30:26,599
Speaker 11: Thanks for having me guys.

1961
01:30:26,640 --> 01:30:28,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, so you tweeted this. We can put

1962
01:30:28,920 --> 01:30:30,519
Speaker 1: this up on the screen about Tim Walls. You were

1963
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:33,360
Speaker 1: taking a little glance at his economic philosophy, and he

1964
01:30:33,400 --> 01:30:36,759
Speaker 1: had apparently put out this idea the economy is a garden,

1965
01:30:37,080 --> 01:30:40,320
Speaker 1: not a jungle. When you combine this with his record

1966
01:30:40,400 --> 01:30:42,040
Speaker 1: in the state of Minnesota, you know, what can you

1967
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:44,760
Speaker 1: say about his sort of economic view and how he

1968
01:30:44,920 --> 01:30:47,680
Speaker 1: might add to a potential Kamala Harris administration.

1969
01:30:48,800 --> 01:30:50,200
Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean, I think if you look at his

1970
01:30:50,400 --> 01:30:53,599
Speaker 11: record as a member of the House, he was clearly

1971
01:30:53,640 --> 01:30:56,320
Speaker 11: aligning himself with the more moderate wing of the party.

1972
01:30:56,720 --> 01:31:00,439
Speaker 11: He had a vote score that was pretty centrist. But

1973
01:31:00,840 --> 01:31:04,439
Speaker 11: when he had the chance to implement pretty progressive legislation

1974
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:06,719
Speaker 11: in Minnesota, it seems like he ran with that everyone

1975
01:31:06,800 --> 01:31:10,040
Speaker 11: knows by now, a creational marijuana the biggest child tax

1976
01:31:10,160 --> 01:31:13,360
Speaker 11: credit for low income families of any state in the country.

1977
01:31:13,400 --> 01:31:17,080
Speaker 11: After the Biden one fell apart all kinds of other

1978
01:31:17,240 --> 01:31:20,720
Speaker 11: progressive legislation that you know, they had a trifecta. There

1979
01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:23,400
Speaker 11: were people, you know, who were pushing it, so we

1980
01:31:23,439 --> 01:31:25,000
Speaker 11: had the opportunity to do it, which a lot of

1981
01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:27,160
Speaker 11: governors probably would do if they also had the chance.

1982
01:31:28,160 --> 01:31:30,040
Speaker 11: But at a minimum, we can say he did not

1983
01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:32,680
Speaker 11: stand in the way of progressive legislation and seems to

1984
01:31:32,680 --> 01:31:37,000
Speaker 11: be quite outspoken, particularly about free school lunches, which I

1985
01:31:37,000 --> 01:31:39,519
Speaker 11: think is an issue that Democrats see as a very

1986
01:31:39,560 --> 01:31:41,800
Speaker 11: effective populist policy that they can run on.

1987
01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:44,599
Speaker 2: So, Jeff, you have always been so good at this.

1988
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:48,400
Speaker 2: What has been your experience so far trying to get

1989
01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:52,160
Speaker 2: some policy positions and perhaps some insight into a quote

1990
01:31:52,240 --> 01:31:54,320
Speaker 2: unquote day one agenda from the Harris campaign.

1991
01:31:54,760 --> 01:31:57,960
Speaker 11: A really good question. Yeah, in some ways, she is

1992
01:31:57,960 --> 01:31:59,720
Speaker 11: a bit of a tabula ross. It's a little bit

1993
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:01,800
Speaker 11: like what does she actually stand for? Because in twenty

1994
01:32:01,840 --> 01:32:04,920
Speaker 11: twenty she sort of was aiming for the burning wing

1995
01:32:04,960 --> 01:32:07,840
Speaker 11: of the party, right you guys remember, like she called

1996
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:10,960
Speaker 11: for banning fracking, medicare for all. I think I did

1997
01:32:10,960 --> 01:32:14,280
Speaker 11: a store at one point, I was like, is Kamala

1998
01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:17,439
Speaker 11: Harris's seven trillion dollars green new deal big enough? Like yeah,

1999
01:32:18,479 --> 01:32:24,519
Speaker 11: looks absurd? Yes, but you know, as a member of

2000
01:32:24,520 --> 01:32:28,360
Speaker 11: the Biden administration, And since then, she's kind of distanced herself.

2001
01:32:28,360 --> 01:32:30,240
Speaker 11: We've seen her say that she doesn't support a fracking

2002
01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:33,439
Speaker 11: band anymore. She's put distance between herself and the Medicare

2003
01:32:33,439 --> 01:32:35,960
Speaker 11: for All proposals. So what is it that she supports?

2004
01:32:36,120 --> 01:32:38,360
Speaker 11: And on a lot of issues she actually seems to

2005
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:40,439
Speaker 11: be a bit of a cipher. We don't really know

2006
01:32:40,439 --> 01:32:42,960
Speaker 11: where she stands on antitrust policy, which I think you

2007
01:32:43,000 --> 01:32:45,519
Speaker 11: guys have done some work on industrial policy, I think

2008
01:32:45,600 --> 01:32:47,880
Speaker 11: is another big question mark. My sense from talking to

2009
01:32:47,920 --> 01:32:49,400
Speaker 11: people who have worked with her is that there's a

2010
01:32:49,400 --> 01:32:51,679
Speaker 11: few things that she does really care about. The things

2011
01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:54,960
Speaker 11: that I have heard that she feels in her bones

2012
01:32:55,439 --> 01:33:01,639
Speaker 11: are the care economy proposals, childcare, paid family leave, pre

2013
01:33:01,840 --> 01:33:04,800
Speaker 11: universal pre K. Those are things that she, you know,

2014
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:07,200
Speaker 11: she's been working with the SCIU very closely for a

2015
01:33:07,240 --> 01:33:11,320
Speaker 11: long time and she seems to feel those those policies

2016
01:33:11,400 --> 01:33:15,040
Speaker 11: quite deeply. Medical debt, like reforming or canceling medical debt,

2017
01:33:15,080 --> 01:33:17,519
Speaker 11: and student debt are also things that have come up

2018
01:33:17,640 --> 01:33:20,920
Speaker 11: a lot, housing maybe to a slightly lesser extent. It's

2019
01:33:20,920 --> 01:33:22,920
Speaker 11: an interesting you know, I wouldn't say that she doesn't

2020
01:33:22,960 --> 01:33:27,080
Speaker 11: care about industrial policy or unions or infrastructure, but her

2021
01:33:27,280 --> 01:33:29,840
Speaker 11: you know, Biden had for thirty forty years been like

2022
01:33:30,080 --> 01:33:31,080
Speaker 11: you know, if like he woke them up in the

2023
01:33:31,120 --> 01:33:33,240
Speaker 11: middle of the night, he would have like a theory

2024
01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:36,880
Speaker 11: about what was wrong with the economies, like big corporations,

2025
01:33:36,960 --> 01:33:40,280
Speaker 11: like you know, like his desire to like be union

2026
01:33:40,400 --> 01:33:42,960
Speaker 11: Joe was like solidified over years, and like he had

2027
01:33:42,960 --> 01:33:46,320
Speaker 11: an alliance with blue collar trades men that like went

2028
01:33:46,360 --> 01:33:49,839
Speaker 11: back decades. He also, I think obviously had a centrist

2029
01:33:49,880 --> 01:33:54,320
Speaker 11: legacy on on credit cards and student debt. Right her,

2030
01:33:54,800 --> 01:33:58,120
Speaker 11: her policy positions are so much more unformed, but we're

2031
01:33:58,200 --> 01:34:01,600
Speaker 11: starting to see an emergence of like this set of

2032
01:34:01,600 --> 01:34:04,120
Speaker 11: issues that I think would sort of make sense to

2033
01:34:04,479 --> 01:34:06,640
Speaker 11: finish sort of the stuff that Biden was unable to do,

2034
01:34:06,720 --> 01:34:09,679
Speaker 11: the parts of the Build Back Better agenda that Mansion killed.

2035
01:34:10,120 --> 01:34:12,080
Speaker 11: You can see her sort of gearing up to make

2036
01:34:12,120 --> 01:34:13,080
Speaker 11: a push to finish those.

2037
01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:15,400
Speaker 1: Gotcha all right, Let's go and talk about your work

2038
01:34:15,439 --> 01:34:18,960
Speaker 1: on sanctions, which is extraordinary. I really recommend people read

2039
01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:20,880
Speaker 1: through this piece because I think it's so important to

2040
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:24,679
Speaker 1: understand this. You say, how for US presence unleashed economic

2041
01:34:24,840 --> 01:34:28,519
Speaker 1: warfare across the globe, and you track the way that

2042
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:33,080
Speaker 1: the US sanctions regime has widely expanded, and you also

2043
01:34:33,160 --> 01:34:36,240
Speaker 1: track the way that in many critical regards, it has

2044
01:34:36,280 --> 01:34:39,240
Speaker 1: failed to accomplish the goals, the supposed goals that were

2045
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:39,800
Speaker 1: set out for.

2046
01:34:39,920 --> 01:34:41,479
Speaker 4: So give us the broad strokes of what you were

2047
01:34:41,479 --> 01:34:42,160
Speaker 4: looking at here.

2048
01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:45,479
Speaker 11: Yeah, it's like, as a reporter who covers the Treasury Department,

2049
01:34:45,680 --> 01:34:48,760
Speaker 11: I'm on their newslest serve and every week they send

2050
01:34:48,760 --> 01:34:52,920
Speaker 11: an email that's like new list of people who we've sanctioned, right,

2051
01:34:52,960 --> 01:34:56,160
Speaker 11: And it's like I was reading these emails like every

2052
01:34:56,400 --> 01:34:58,559
Speaker 11: it felt like almost every day in my inbox, a

2053
01:34:58,600 --> 01:35:02,479
Speaker 11: new group of people would be sanctioned by the US government.

2054
01:35:02,560 --> 01:35:05,120
Speaker 11: And it's like, what is the volume of this? Like

2055
01:35:05,160 --> 01:35:07,439
Speaker 11: that's with the imputus of the reporting. It's like how

2056
01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:11,559
Speaker 11: big is this thing? And we reported an analysis we

2057
01:35:11,600 --> 01:35:13,840
Speaker 11: did internally that took a lot of time to do,

2058
01:35:13,920 --> 01:35:17,200
Speaker 11: but we found that a third of all countries on

2059
01:35:17,240 --> 01:35:21,200
Speaker 11: Earth are under some form of US sanctions. And the

2060
01:35:21,360 --> 01:35:23,519
Speaker 11: number that really I found jaw dropping in the piece,

2061
01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:28,439
Speaker 11: sixty percent of all poor low incomnations are under some

2062
01:35:28,479 --> 01:35:31,720
Speaker 11: form of US sanctions. So we are talking about I mean,

2063
01:35:32,080 --> 01:35:38,280
Speaker 11: just off the top of my head, Iran, Cuba, North Korea, Zimbabwe, Mali,

2064
01:35:38,760 --> 01:35:43,280
Speaker 11: the Democratic Republic of Congo. I could go on. I

2065
01:35:43,280 --> 01:35:49,840
Speaker 11: mean the number of countries Burma, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Like,

2066
01:35:50,640 --> 01:35:54,840
Speaker 11: this is a breathtakingly large list that I think. I'm

2067
01:35:54,840 --> 01:35:56,760
Speaker 11: so glad that reporting has gotten the reception it has,

2068
01:35:56,800 --> 01:35:58,960
Speaker 11: because I feel like the more I report on this,

2069
01:35:59,000 --> 01:36:01,280
Speaker 11: the more amazed I was that people were so unaware.

2070
01:36:01,320 --> 01:36:04,120
Speaker 11: I mean even I, as someone who covers this issue specifically,

2071
01:36:04,160 --> 01:36:06,599
Speaker 11: I was like, I had no idea that it was this.

2072
01:36:07,200 --> 01:36:08,559
Speaker 4: I know, we're sanctioning Burma.

2073
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:12,400
Speaker 2: Oh that would mean yeah, I was gonna say it's

2074
01:36:12,400 --> 01:36:15,160
Speaker 2: actually yeah, that's it's fun, which which one you're saying

2075
01:36:15,240 --> 01:36:18,960
Speaker 2: it portrays it lot. What I found most interesting about

2076
01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:22,519
Speaker 2: it was about both the how obvious it is in

2077
01:36:22,560 --> 01:36:25,920
Speaker 2: many cases of a backfire or of unintended consequences, and

2078
01:36:25,960 --> 01:36:29,400
Speaker 2: not the Treasury Department ever factoring that into their decision making.

2079
01:36:29,439 --> 01:36:31,400
Speaker 2: I see this with the Russia thing all the time.

2080
01:36:31,439 --> 01:36:33,160
Speaker 2: As you point out, you're like, yeah, it's weakened them some.

2081
01:36:33,560 --> 01:36:37,799
Speaker 2: Now we've also created, though, this entire like offshore fleet

2082
01:36:37,920 --> 01:36:40,479
Speaker 2: of ships which just operate outside the realm of the

2083
01:36:40,560 --> 01:36:43,280
Speaker 2: US financial system. So can you talk about like, is

2084
01:36:43,280 --> 01:36:46,320
Speaker 2: there any feedback loop. Is there ever any assessment because

2085
01:36:46,479 --> 01:36:49,640
Speaker 2: from reading your story, it just seems like it just compounds,

2086
01:36:49,720 --> 01:36:51,960
Speaker 2: like we invent new sanctions and we try something else,

2087
01:36:52,040 --> 01:36:55,680
Speaker 2: but there's never any you know, ask of both bipartisan

2088
01:36:55,840 --> 01:36:58,080
Speaker 2: of does this actually work? Like is this accomplishing the

2089
01:36:58,080 --> 01:36:59,000
Speaker 2: goal that we set out to do?

2090
01:36:59,240 --> 01:37:00,800
Speaker 11: That's such a good question. And Zaga. I mean, I

2091
01:37:00,800 --> 01:37:03,880
Speaker 11: think when you talk to US officials about this, they

2092
01:37:04,000 --> 01:37:09,120
Speaker 11: recognize that the pressure to impose sanctions, the like sort

2093
01:37:09,120 --> 01:37:13,639
Speaker 11: of institutional force that pushes this apparatus along is something

2094
01:37:13,680 --> 01:37:15,600
Speaker 11: happens anywhere in the world, and then there's there's this

2095
01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:18,639
Speaker 11: like force to to do something about it, and because

2096
01:37:18,680 --> 01:37:21,360
Speaker 11: we don't want to go to war in some cases,

2097
01:37:21,720 --> 01:37:25,519
Speaker 11: because the the impetus for that has has you know,

2098
01:37:25,760 --> 01:37:29,400
Speaker 11: I think you know, subsequent presidents have seen the dangers

2099
01:37:29,439 --> 01:37:32,200
Speaker 11: of going to war. We've you know, obviously there's the

2100
01:37:32,240 --> 01:37:35,080
Speaker 11: disasters in I Rock in Afghanistan. Following that there was

2101
01:37:35,080 --> 01:37:38,200
Speaker 11: a sense that this is politically that disastrous, and then

2102
01:37:38,200 --> 01:37:41,479
Speaker 11: simultaneously there's pressure not to do nothing, and so sanctions

2103
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:45,360
Speaker 11: is like in this this this in between position that

2104
01:37:45,360 --> 01:37:47,920
Speaker 11: that presidents find that they can do something that's not

2105
01:37:48,080 --> 01:37:52,799
Speaker 11: war but then there's no evaluation after the fact, after

2106
01:37:52,840 --> 01:37:54,400
Speaker 11: the new cycle has moved on. And so we have

2107
01:37:54,439 --> 01:37:56,920
Speaker 11: a chart in the story that shows the number of

2108
01:37:56,960 --> 01:38:00,800
Speaker 11: sanctions that has been that are removed after they're imposed

2109
01:38:01,200 --> 01:38:05,760
Speaker 11: is breathtakingly small, because there isn't really any apparatus within

2110
01:38:05,800 --> 01:38:10,639
Speaker 11: the government evaluating whether these have worked after they've been imposed. Cuba,

2111
01:38:10,680 --> 01:38:12,880
Speaker 11: of course, is like the paradigmatic example of this. We've

2112
01:38:12,920 --> 01:38:16,240
Speaker 11: had sanctions on Cuba for over sixty years. And this

2113
01:38:16,320 --> 01:38:19,920
Speaker 11: is the thing where like you would talk to some

2114
01:38:20,360 --> 01:38:22,040
Speaker 11: you know, you talk to like a young leftist and

2115
01:38:22,080 --> 01:38:23,360
Speaker 11: be like, what are you thinking of? Like the Cuba

2116
01:38:23,400 --> 01:38:26,719
Speaker 11: sanctions are terrible? But I was astonished by the number

2117
01:38:26,760 --> 01:38:30,920
Speaker 11: of like senior sort of like foreign policy hawk types

2118
01:38:30,960 --> 01:38:32,960
Speaker 11: that I would talk to for this story who would

2119
01:38:33,000 --> 01:38:36,479
Speaker 11: be like like quasi supportive of like Afghanistan, you know,

2120
01:38:37,360 --> 01:38:38,760
Speaker 11: and they'd be like, ca, you believe we still have

2121
01:38:38,800 --> 01:38:41,400
Speaker 11: sanctions on Cuba, and like you're like the guy who

2122
01:38:41,560 --> 01:38:44,120
Speaker 11: like the caricature of the person who's like in the

2123
01:38:44,160 --> 01:38:47,360
Speaker 11: back office of the Pentagon, rushing pushing a more hawkish

2124
01:38:47,360 --> 01:38:49,599
Speaker 11: foreign policy, and even these people are like, what are

2125
01:38:49,600 --> 01:38:50,519
Speaker 11: we getting out of this?

2126
01:38:50,760 --> 01:38:51,000
Speaker 9: Right?

2127
01:38:51,240 --> 01:38:54,080
Speaker 11: And so the thing with this is like the political

2128
01:38:54,160 --> 01:38:56,759
Speaker 11: incentives are only to go forward. No one really thinks

2129
01:38:57,400 --> 01:39:02,479
Speaker 11: the government for moving sanctions. Maybe sort of people in

2130
01:39:02,840 --> 01:39:05,000
Speaker 11: those countries would feel that way, but those aren't important

2131
01:39:05,000 --> 01:39:08,000
Speaker 11: domestic political constituencies where you have you know, in the

2132
01:39:08,040 --> 01:39:11,000
Speaker 11: case of Cuba, members of Florida of both parties are like,

2133
01:39:11,080 --> 01:39:13,559
Speaker 11: do not remove these sanctions or we will have a

2134
01:39:13,600 --> 01:39:17,760
Speaker 11: field day. And so there's there's only political downside for

2135
01:39:18,000 --> 01:39:20,200
Speaker 11: taking the risk of removing sanctions. And so then you

2136
01:39:20,240 --> 01:39:21,600
Speaker 11: just see them pile up pilot.

2137
01:39:21,360 --> 01:39:23,960
Speaker 1: Pilot, Yeah, because who wants to I mean, listen, with

2138
01:39:24,000 --> 01:39:25,760
Speaker 1: regard to Florida, it's a red state now, so maybe

2139
01:39:25,760 --> 01:39:27,559
Speaker 1: we could have a more sane policy, like why are

2140
01:39:27,600 --> 01:39:29,880
Speaker 1: we still why are we still doing this thing at

2141
01:39:29,880 --> 01:39:32,320
Speaker 1: this point? But to your point, it reminds me of

2142
01:39:32,320 --> 01:39:36,160
Speaker 1: the withdrawal from Afghanistan. Like everyone there was a huge

2143
01:39:36,240 --> 01:39:39,560
Speaker 1: national consensus and Trump flirted with withdrawing with that from Afghanistan,

2144
01:39:39,600 --> 01:39:42,479
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera, but actually doing it is messy

2145
01:39:42,520 --> 01:39:44,040
Speaker 1: and no one wants to be you know that guy.

2146
01:39:44,080 --> 01:39:47,000
Speaker 1: It's the same thing with sanctions. It's an easy political hit.

2147
01:39:47,120 --> 01:39:48,519
Speaker 1: You know, you can see them quing up the talking

2148
01:39:48,560 --> 01:39:51,200
Speaker 1: points on Fox News about you took the sanctions off.

2149
01:39:51,120 --> 01:39:52,200
Speaker 4: Of Iran and how could you?

2150
01:39:52,240 --> 01:39:54,599
Speaker 1: And these are evil people, et cetera, et cetera, so

2151
01:39:54,640 --> 01:39:57,479
Speaker 1: there's nothing politically to be gained from rolling them back.

2152
01:39:57,880 --> 01:39:59,960
Speaker 1: I'd love for you to you speak to that as well.

2153
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:01,599
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. But dig

2154
01:40:01,640 --> 01:40:05,240
Speaker 1: into the Russian sanctions regime. If I'm not incorrect, I

2155
01:40:05,240 --> 01:40:07,599
Speaker 1: believe this is now the most sanctioned country on Earth.

2156
01:40:08,040 --> 01:40:10,280
Speaker 4: And yes it's taken a hit.

2157
01:40:10,280 --> 01:40:13,120
Speaker 1: It's not like it's been totally painless for them, but

2158
01:40:13,160 --> 01:40:16,920
Speaker 1: it's also had massive, significant downsides. And I also don't

2159
01:40:16,960 --> 01:40:20,160
Speaker 1: think has been nearly as devastating to them as was

2160
01:40:20,200 --> 01:40:21,320
Speaker 1: initially anticipated.

2161
01:40:21,920 --> 01:40:23,760
Speaker 11: Yeah, for the story, we try to come up with

2162
01:40:23,800 --> 01:40:27,400
Speaker 11: a sanctioned severity index because the scale of sanctions is

2163
01:40:27,479 --> 01:40:32,280
Speaker 11: so hard to pinpoint. And I had experts who are like,

2164
01:40:32,600 --> 01:40:34,800
Speaker 11: it's wrong because of this, and experts who would say, like,

2165
01:40:34,840 --> 01:40:37,519
Speaker 11: your sanction severity index is wrong in the completely opposite direction,

2166
01:40:37,560 --> 01:40:39,840
Speaker 11: which made it hard to reconcile. But one thing people

2167
01:40:39,880 --> 01:40:43,160
Speaker 11: did agree about was that the volume of sanctions on

2168
01:40:43,240 --> 01:40:46,519
Speaker 11: Russia is I think the greatest of any country, Like

2169
01:40:46,560 --> 01:40:48,800
Speaker 11: we have imposed more sanctions on Russia than we have

2170
01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:53,160
Speaker 11: on any other country. But the number of sanctions can

2171
01:40:53,160 --> 01:40:56,439
Speaker 11: be a little misleading relative to their impact. So with

2172
01:40:56,560 --> 01:40:59,280
Speaker 11: a country like Iran and North Korea, we can say

2173
01:41:00,120 --> 01:41:02,560
Speaker 11: not have business with this country. We can impose a

2174
01:41:02,720 --> 01:41:07,680
Speaker 11: sort of breathtakingly sweeping secondary sanctions regime where we can

2175
01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:11,920
Speaker 11: say to European officials, you guys cannot trade with them

2176
01:41:11,960 --> 01:41:14,040
Speaker 11: either or we will sanction you. Right, that's like the

2177
01:41:14,080 --> 01:41:18,800
Speaker 11: scale of American hegemonys. It's breathtaking. But that can also

2178
01:41:18,920 --> 01:41:22,120
Speaker 11: just be like two sanctions. You know, you can just

2179
01:41:22,320 --> 01:41:25,240
Speaker 11: impose two sanctions on Iran and cut them off from

2180
01:41:25,240 --> 01:41:27,880
Speaker 11: the global economy, right, whereas Russia you can be like,

2181
01:41:28,400 --> 01:41:31,200
Speaker 11: we will not take the sanctioned step that cuts them

2182
01:41:31,200 --> 01:41:36,280
Speaker 11: off entirely, but we will sanction like Dimitri's like vodka

2183
01:41:36,320 --> 01:41:38,360
Speaker 11: shot that like has no business in the West anyway,

2184
01:41:38,600 --> 01:41:43,800
Speaker 11: and then like thirty suppliers of military hardware that that

2185
01:41:43,920 --> 01:41:47,160
Speaker 11: like are in like Eastern Russia. So it's like the

2186
01:41:47,360 --> 01:41:52,360
Speaker 11: US has these political incentives to keep pushing out additional sanctions.

2187
01:41:52,479 --> 01:41:56,480
Speaker 11: They like try to like full reporters into writing headlines

2188
01:41:56,520 --> 01:41:58,559
Speaker 11: that are like which I think they're actually quite good

2189
01:41:58,600 --> 01:42:02,519
Speaker 11: at full as strong. So but like they will put

2190
01:42:02,520 --> 01:42:04,519
Speaker 11: out press releases that are like like when they were

2191
01:42:04,600 --> 01:42:07,759
Speaker 11: there was pressure to respond to the Navolni, the Russian

2192
01:42:07,760 --> 01:42:10,080
Speaker 11: dissident who died in prison. There was there was a

2193
01:42:10,080 --> 01:42:11,960
Speaker 11: lot of pressure on the US to do something big,

2194
01:42:12,640 --> 01:42:15,519
Speaker 11: and they came out with this announcements. US imposes four

2195
01:42:15,560 --> 01:42:19,360
Speaker 11: hundred sanctions on Russian response, and like beneath the hood,

2196
01:42:19,400 --> 01:42:23,839
Speaker 11: like almost none of these were of of economic economically

2197
01:42:23,920 --> 01:42:24,679
Speaker 11: significant imps.

2198
01:42:24,840 --> 01:42:26,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's a good point.

2199
01:42:26,160 --> 01:42:28,160
Speaker 1: So I saw this with regard to Israel. We're going

2200
01:42:28,200 --> 01:42:29,439
Speaker 1: to sanction these yea.

2201
01:42:29,400 --> 01:42:31,360
Speaker 11: The West Bank settlers, three guys.

2202
01:42:31,600 --> 01:42:33,559
Speaker 1: And these guys are like, we don't do any business

2203
01:42:33,600 --> 01:42:35,000
Speaker 1: with you anyways, so whatever, we're.

2204
01:42:35,200 --> 01:42:38,080
Speaker 11: Just we're upset about the symbolic you know, meaning of that.

2205
01:42:38,200 --> 01:42:40,400
Speaker 11: But how much did that hurt is really economy? It

2206
01:42:40,439 --> 01:42:41,799
Speaker 11: seems quite little.

2207
01:42:42,720 --> 01:42:44,800
Speaker 2: Sorry, no, no, I was just thinking, so in the

2208
01:42:44,840 --> 01:42:47,920
Speaker 2: future was with the assessment and all that first, like

2209
01:42:47,960 --> 01:42:49,280
Speaker 2: why did you set out to write the story?

2210
01:42:49,320 --> 01:42:51,800
Speaker 3: Like what what? What even you know inspired you to

2211
01:42:51,840 --> 01:42:52,040
Speaker 3: do this?

2212
01:42:54,160 --> 01:42:58,240
Speaker 11: I think just just realizing that this is the main

2213
01:42:58,400 --> 01:43:01,840
Speaker 11: tool of US foreign policy and it felt so under

2214
01:43:01,840 --> 01:43:06,120
Speaker 11: examined or under explored. It's really tens of millions, hundreds

2215
01:43:06,120 --> 01:43:08,680
Speaker 11: of millions of people that are affected by this, and

2216
01:43:08,720 --> 01:43:10,200
Speaker 11: you look at I mean, I think one of the

2217
01:43:10,240 --> 01:43:12,559
Speaker 11: things that kind of accelerated my reporting was looking at

2218
01:43:12,600 --> 01:43:14,920
Speaker 11: the case of Venezuela. I mean, there's so many international

2219
01:43:15,000 --> 01:43:20,400
Speaker 11: examples to talk about here, but in the case of Venezuela,

2220
01:43:20,640 --> 01:43:24,519
Speaker 11: the number of people hurt by that country's economic collapse

2221
01:43:24,640 --> 01:43:30,520
Speaker 11: is breathtaking. I mean, they had the single biggest decline

2222
01:43:31,360 --> 01:43:35,160
Speaker 11: of any economy not at war in modern history, seventy

2223
01:43:35,200 --> 01:43:39,439
Speaker 11: one percent economic contraction. That is bigger than Ukraine in

2224
01:43:39,479 --> 01:43:42,519
Speaker 11: twenty twenty two, bigger than Iraq in two thousand and three,

2225
01:43:42,880 --> 01:43:48,880
Speaker 11: It's bigger than Zimbabwe in the last twenty years. Like,

2226
01:43:48,920 --> 01:43:55,480
Speaker 11: this is a catastrophe that is among the worst humanitarian

2227
01:43:55,520 --> 01:44:00,200
Speaker 11: disasters we've had this century. And there's a huge whose

2228
01:44:00,200 --> 01:44:03,880
Speaker 11: debate about the extent to which, like US sanctions exacerbated that.

2229
01:44:03,920 --> 01:44:06,200
Speaker 11: But the consensus among the economists I talked to is

2230
01:44:06,600 --> 01:44:11,400
Speaker 11: like cutting off Venezuelan economic officials from refinancing their debt

2231
01:44:11,400 --> 01:44:17,040
Speaker 11: on global markets, cutting off their main their their their

2232
01:44:17,080 --> 01:44:20,240
Speaker 11: source of ninety six percent of export revenue, which is

2233
01:44:20,280 --> 01:44:23,160
Speaker 11: there the pair of Vessa, which was the main the

2234
01:44:23,240 --> 01:44:25,680
Speaker 11: state on oil enterprise, which was like the sort of

2235
01:44:25,720 --> 01:44:29,760
Speaker 11: life blood of their economy. We saw malnutrition and poverty

2236
01:44:29,880 --> 01:44:34,040
Speaker 11: and you know, hunger and all these horrific indices increase.

2237
01:44:34,120 --> 01:44:36,880
Speaker 11: And if you ask, like a friend, you know, like

2238
01:44:37,560 --> 01:44:39,720
Speaker 11: about a rock or Afghanistan, like they'll be able to

2239
01:44:39,720 --> 01:44:41,519
Speaker 11: tell you, like the US like went in and like

2240
01:44:41,520 --> 01:44:44,640
Speaker 11: all these people died and like they know. But sanctions

2241
01:44:44,680 --> 01:44:48,800
Speaker 11: have operated in this sphere where because the language of

2242
01:44:49,640 --> 01:44:52,960
Speaker 11: economic warfare is so desiccated, is so removed from like

2243
01:44:52,960 --> 01:44:57,240
Speaker 11: the viscerality of guns and bloodshed, we don't see the

2244
01:44:57,320 --> 01:45:02,280
Speaker 11: consequences the same, even if they can be at even

2245
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:05,200
Speaker 11: if the human toll can be as severe, if not

2246
01:45:05,240 --> 01:45:07,600
Speaker 11: more severe, if you cut off a country's access to

2247
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:10,240
Speaker 11: food and medicine, it can be worse than it targeted

2248
01:45:10,240 --> 01:45:13,040
Speaker 11: and military strike. But because of you know, for some

2249
01:45:13,120 --> 01:45:15,320
Speaker 11: un understandable reasons, because of the way the media works

2250
01:45:15,439 --> 01:45:18,320
Speaker 11: and the way human attention works, it doesn't concentrate our

2251
01:45:18,320 --> 01:45:21,559
Speaker 11: attention in that sort of in that sort of way.

2252
01:45:21,600 --> 01:45:23,280
Speaker 3: So I know I'm rambling a little bit, but no, no, no,

2253
01:45:23,280 --> 01:45:23,960
Speaker 3: it's very helpful.

2254
01:45:24,040 --> 01:45:26,080
Speaker 1: How much is your what is your sense of how

2255
01:45:26,160 --> 01:45:29,760
Speaker 1: much are sanctions regimes on various countries. You mentioned Venezuela

2256
01:45:30,360 --> 01:45:34,320
Speaker 1: have contributed to immigration flows, and that may be true,

2257
01:45:34,400 --> 01:45:36,360
Speaker 1: you know, here to the US, but also in other

2258
01:45:36,360 --> 01:45:37,280
Speaker 1: places around the world.

2259
01:45:37,520 --> 01:45:40,040
Speaker 11: Yeah, so we're doing as you guys mentioned the series.

2260
01:45:40,240 --> 01:45:44,439
Speaker 11: And the third story in our series was about how

2261
01:45:44,560 --> 01:45:48,920
Speaker 11: the Department of Homeland Security had produced internal warnings under

2262
01:45:48,960 --> 01:45:51,240
Speaker 11: Trump that went to the Trump White House that said

2263
01:45:51,840 --> 01:45:56,160
Speaker 11: tighter sanctions on the Venezuelan regime risks fueling out migration

2264
01:45:56,200 --> 01:45:57,600
Speaker 11: in the region. So this was a risk that the

2265
01:45:57,600 --> 01:46:00,560
Speaker 11: Trump White House was made aware of in these classified

2266
01:46:00,600 --> 01:46:03,240
Speaker 11: reports that were described to us by senior administration officials.

2267
01:46:03,920 --> 01:46:09,639
Speaker 11: And the migration crisis out of Venezuela is a key

2268
01:46:09,720 --> 01:46:13,719
Speaker 11: part of the humanitarian catastrophe. More than seven million people

2269
01:46:13,760 --> 01:46:17,720
Speaker 11: have left Venezuela since the crisis started. That predates US

2270
01:46:17,760 --> 01:46:22,000
Speaker 11: sanctions in part, but was accelerated by it. We were

2271
01:46:22,040 --> 01:46:27,040
Speaker 11: talking about something like a don't quotent a fifth or

2272
01:46:27,040 --> 01:46:29,720
Speaker 11: a sixth of the country attempting to leave. Wow. And

2273
01:46:29,760 --> 01:46:32,439
Speaker 11: then we have this situation at the border, which was,

2274
01:46:32,600 --> 01:46:37,400
Speaker 11: to be fair to the Republicans, was not was not

2275
01:46:37,439 --> 01:46:40,960
Speaker 11: that was not caused you know, by sanctions and only

2276
01:46:41,080 --> 01:46:45,160
Speaker 11: spiked after Biden relaxed some Trump border policies, which the

2277
01:46:45,200 --> 01:46:47,240
Speaker 11: left will yell at me for saying, but is just

2278
01:46:47,520 --> 01:46:52,080
Speaker 11: sequentially true. True. Yeah, but there's also no doubt that

2279
01:46:52,080 --> 01:46:55,720
Speaker 11: that a big source of migrants that was part of

2280
01:46:55,760 --> 01:47:00,000
Speaker 11: the Biden border crisis was migrants from Cuba and migrants

2281
01:47:00,120 --> 01:47:03,559
Speaker 11: from Venezuela to two country that that had been heavily sanctioned,

2282
01:47:03,920 --> 01:47:06,000
Speaker 11: and as we reported, they knew that that was a

2283
01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:07,639
Speaker 11: risk of tighter sanctions.

2284
01:47:07,760 --> 01:47:10,479
Speaker 2: That's very interesting, Well, Jeff, we highly recommend people read

2285
01:47:10,479 --> 01:47:12,400
Speaker 2: the piece. We're gonna put the description down on the link.

2286
01:47:12,439 --> 01:47:13,679
Speaker 2: And we always appreciate my friend.

2287
01:47:13,720 --> 01:47:14,000
Speaker 3: Thank you.

2288
01:47:14,120 --> 01:47:15,880
Speaker 11: Love being on Thank you. I love being able to

2289
01:47:15,920 --> 01:47:18,080
Speaker 11: like explain things at length and five seconds.

2290
01:47:18,600 --> 01:47:20,040
Speaker 4: We love having things explain to us.

2291
01:47:20,080 --> 01:47:23,800
Speaker 3: So read It's really really good. All right, We'll see

2292
01:47:23,800 --> 01:47:24,320
Speaker 3: you guys later