1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: Matt and today we're discussing modern frugality and massive debt 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: reduction with Jen Smith. Jen Smith is a personal planates expert, 4 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: and she has the experience to back it up. Jennator 5 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: has been paid off over seventy eight thousand dollars of 6 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: debt in less than two years, making well under six figures. 7 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: She's been featured in Kiplinger, u S News, and World 8 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: Report Money magazine, and she's co hosted the Frugal Friends 9 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: podcast and blogs over at modern frugality dot com. And 10 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,480 Speaker 1: Joel her love for all the arrivals my own. In fact, 11 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: she might be the most frugal person we've had on 12 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: the show. Gen thanks so much for coming on the podcast. 13 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: I am so excited to be here. I'm just excited 14 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: to hang out with other frugal people. Well who love 15 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: all d Yes right, you know that you're going to 16 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: be kindred spirits if you both love Albi Yes, luck right. 17 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: Joel's a recent convert, He's still I always loved all 18 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: these I do prefer costcut, but train, but you can't. 19 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: You don't have to choose. That's the beauty of this. 20 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: They're both great. Joel was our first guest on our podcast, 21 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: so I really feel like he's on the frugal train 22 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: with us. So we got to be well Jen, Typically, 23 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: you know, we have a craft beer on the show. 24 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: It's really important to us. But um, we're recording with 25 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: you in the morning. So we decided Matt and I 26 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:37,759 Speaker 1: decided to have a cold brew coffee. Um, we don't 27 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: really drink at nine am typically, Um, but but we 28 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: have it to not develop right exactly, but but we 29 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: typically do drink a craft beer in every episode. And 30 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: so our first question every guest is because we prioritize 31 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: having kind of expensive beer. Sometimes it's it's our way 32 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: of splurging now while saving and investing well for the future. 33 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: What is your craft beer equivalent? How do you splurge 34 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: now while saving for for your future? Self? So, I 35 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: don't buy a lot of expensive things, but I always 36 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: dreamed of having like a really nice suv. So last 37 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: year when I got pregnant, I took that as an 38 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: opportunity to say to my husband, like, we need to 39 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: get me a new suv, a new used suv. And 40 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: it's like bright orange and shiny two thousand sixteen turbo charged, 41 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: paid for in cash but nice to me. Yeah, still Sunday. 42 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: So it's like not Alexis or anything. You didn't get 43 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 1: the escalade with like the blacked out windows or anything 44 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: like that. You know, that was my second choice. But yeah, 45 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: you know those blacked out windows, they're good to have 46 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: in Florida. But that's actually point keep it a lot 47 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: cooler in there for sure, So I like it. That's 48 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: a splurge. I wanted to mention to you. I just 49 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: I just thought of this. The coffee that we're having. 50 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: You know, it's from Aldi and so I think we're 51 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: having it's either the morning Roast or the breakfast Roaster 52 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: or which one of those is like one of the 53 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: blends or whatever. But I just wanted to let you 54 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: know that we're drinking all day coffee. It takes fancy, 55 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: it's really I am. I'm actually drinking Starbucks because I 56 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: had a free birthday reward that I had to use up. 57 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: So I feel a little out of place, but it 58 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 1: was free. Awesome. Let's go ahead and dive into frugality, 59 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: jen um. Like I think for a lot of folks 60 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: that word can conjure up thoughts of a bygone era. 61 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: You know, maybe visions of single ply toilet paper, um, 62 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: and like that doesn't get most folks excited about that concept, 63 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: but you're on a mission to reclaim this word. Like 64 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: what does frugality mean to you? And why isn't this 65 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: a bad thing? Yeah, frugality is the least sexy part 66 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: of personal finance. Like we love to talk about side 67 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: hustling and investing and all that stuff, but then you 68 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: come to frugality and you think of like stay at 69 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: home moms clipping coupons and stockpiling groceries. But frugality to 70 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: me is simply being a good steward of resources, so 71 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: specifically limited resources, so primarily money because that's to some 72 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: extent limited, but also resources like natural resources, and your 73 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: time because your time is very limited. And then just 74 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: being wise on where you're putting your energy. So minimalism 75 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: plays a big part of that, So not expending too 76 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: much energy in a bunch of different places, but picking 77 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: a few that really you can invest in. And it's 78 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: just about living a full life and and having so 79 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: few responsibilities that you can actually identify what makes you 80 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: feel and what is your rich life. So when it 81 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: comes to being able to to save and invest more. Right, 82 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: there two aspects of the equation. There's kind of the income, 83 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: there's what you're bringing in, and then there's the expensive side. 84 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: And frugality focuses mostly on on the expenses. So why 85 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: do you in focusing on the expenses is so important? 86 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,799 Speaker 1: Why is that kind of where you hone in Because 87 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: those are the things that are most in our control. 88 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,799 Speaker 1: So investing is super important. But you can't really control 89 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: what the market is doing, but you can control how 90 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: much you're spending, and to an extent, yeah, you can 91 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: try and lower your bills and stuff like that, but 92 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: even even that isn't completely in your control because somebody 93 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: else is controlling what you pay. But if you're really 94 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: focusing on your discretionary expenses, uh, that is a hundred 95 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: percent in your control. And so even though sometimes it's 96 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: just a latte here or buying a generic product there, 97 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: it's completely in your control. And making those decisions and 98 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: having that kind of locust of control can really bleed 99 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 1: over into other aspects of your life too. Yeah, I 100 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: think a lot of folks they might criticize regality and 101 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 1: they would say that like, oh, no, you need to 102 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: have an abundance mindset, you know, but you think you 103 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: can you can always and more. But the fact is 104 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: if you if you don't have control of your spending 105 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: like you can, you can spend every single dollar you make, 106 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: no matter how much money you make. And we've seen 107 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: so many stories to where it's people that make a 108 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars or more and they're still living paycheck 109 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: to paycheck. Sometimes for a lot of people, it doesn't 110 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: matter how much you're bringing in, you spend it all. 111 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: And so for Gali has to be a part of 112 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: the equation, right, Yeah, of course. And I think it's 113 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: shifting your mindset to an abundance mindset or or out 114 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 1: of a scarcity mindset at least that can help you 115 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: control like what your expenses are. And so I don't 116 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: think those two are separate. I think you need one 117 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: to have the other, Joe. So we talk a lot 118 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: about the differences between like being frugal and being cheap, 119 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 1: Like sometimes we do a little segment where it's like, okay, 120 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: frugal or cheap, Jill, this is what I did? Was 121 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: this this an example of me being cheap? Is there 122 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: in your mind? Is there a distinction I love that. Yes, 123 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 1: we talk about it all the time on the Frugal 124 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,559 Speaker 1: Friends podcast. It's kind of our motto is frugal cheap, 125 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 1: And so there's a distinct difference. So frugal saves you money, 126 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: it improves your life, and cheap is anything that's inconvenient 127 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: or it lowers the value of your life. So making 128 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: do with like something broken and just either not replacing 129 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: it or something something that's very important, so that would 130 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: be being cheap. But looking asses together something like that, 131 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: maybe I want it's different for everyone too, so I'll 132 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: say that, but going out and trying to find a 133 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: replacement for that important thing on Facebook marketplace and getting 134 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: it used, or seeing if you can get it free 135 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: from somebody else, or just thinking creatively of ways you 136 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: can improve your life by replacing that product that doesn't 137 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: initially resort to I'm just going to go out and 138 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: buy it full price without thinking. So that's kind of 139 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: the difference. So do you have an instance where you're 140 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: really not you're being frugal, but but maybe you you 141 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: waded into the cheap territory and you're like, dang it, 142 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: I did it. Because because when you are trying to 143 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: tow that line. There are times if you're if you're 144 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: trying to be really frugal, that you're probably gonna accidentally 145 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: wade over into being cheap. Yeah. How much time do 146 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: you have? Oh, all the time in the world. Bring it. 147 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: We want to hear at least one or two good 148 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: frugal fails. Okay, so here's a big one. So we 149 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: uh for our debt free celebration, we took a trip 150 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: to Bally or by the way, I love that this 151 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: is on the tail ends of your of you guys 152 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: paying off your debt. Yes, this is how we celebrated. Granted, 153 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: we went to Bally because Bally is super inexpensive when 154 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: you get over there. Yeah, it costs. The flight is 155 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: a lot, but once you get over there, like dollars 156 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: a day for everything. So if you're looking for a 157 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: frugal adventure, Bally. Anyways, I was trying to save some 158 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: money on that flight, and I love buying discounted gift cards, 159 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: so I bought ten discounted Delta gift cards to use 160 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: to buy my flight. And this was before I discovered 161 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: travel hacking. But I got to buy the flight on 162 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: Delta dot com and you could only use a limit 163 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: of three, and I had just bought and so that 164 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: was like seven dollars worth of gift cards I wasn't 165 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: going to be able to use. So I called and 166 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: sat sat on the phone with a sweet woman and 167 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: she had me enter the number to every gift card 168 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: like over the phone, and so I was able to 169 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: use all of them. But it was I my stomach dropped, 170 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: um initially when I when I thought I could only 171 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: use three. So I will never do that again. Um. 172 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: That was I think an example of being cheap. Well, 173 00:09:55,520 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 1: but yes, it did work out in the end. Was 174 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: a hassle, probably too right, and you're like, it just 175 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: wasn't worth it. There were like ten of them and 176 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: they each had to like sixteen digit codes. So I 177 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: was on the phone for a good hour just saying numbers. 178 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 1: I feel like our time is often the biggest casualty 179 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: when it comes to us being cheap, right, you know, 180 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: because especially early on, I think we have it seems 181 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: like we have all the time in the world. I 182 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: could pick on something that I've done where I was 183 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: being cheap, But Joe, it makes me think of you know, 184 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,839 Speaker 1: early on when you would take your electric car over 185 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: to the free chargers over in Atlantic Station and sit 186 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: there in line, say myself a dollar to say yeah 187 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: to waste an hour and a half because everybody's lined 188 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: up to get the free electricity, and you're like, wait 189 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: a minute, what am I doing with my life? I 190 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: had to already think a lot of things at that point, 191 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 1: um Jed. I loved reading about your love for pawn shops. 192 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: You call them like your secret frugal weapon. Only ever 193 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: purchased one item in a pawn shop before I went 194 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: in there and grabbed an electric handsaw one time, but 195 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: for you like what makes them so great and what 196 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,199 Speaker 1: you often look for when you go there. So I 197 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: love pown shops. I actually we got my engagement ring 198 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: at a pawn shop. So you just have to make 199 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: sure you're going to like a reputable one, like if 200 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: you if you walk up to it and you feel 201 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: safe outside, then then that's probably going to be a 202 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: safe bed. But if you pull in and you feel 203 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: unsafe on the outside, like there's bars all over everything, 204 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,599 Speaker 1: then maybe rethink it. But I love especially once that 205 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: specialize in certain things. So the one where we got 206 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: my engagement ring, they did only jewelry and and like 207 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: some high end items and they got a lot of it, yes, 208 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: from people pawning, but a lot from a state sales 209 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: as well. So that was something where I felt safe. 210 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: They had a jeweler on staff to um, you know, 211 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: say what the ring was worth and stuff. And I 212 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: also got the laptop I'm using right now at a 213 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: pawn shop. Yeah, I had a lot of electronic tech items. 214 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: And before I bought it, we called app bowl and 215 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: uh we you know, read the number to make sure 216 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: it wasn't stolen. Um also called the police station make 217 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: sure there wasn't like anything out on it. Yeah. So 218 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: if you take the necessary precautions you need to, you 219 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: can get huge deals at pawn shops on on bigger items, 220 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: so like rings, laptops, power tools, stuff like that. There's 221 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 1: a substantial savings, right, I'm sure, Like how much how 222 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: much was your ring discounted? Essentially? Um? So we got 223 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: it for eight hundred and it was a praise. We 224 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: went to a separate appraiser outside of it and it 225 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: was a praise for three thousand. Awesome, So it's a 226 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: it was a good deal. Well, we want to get 227 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: into some because you have so much knowledge when it 228 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: comes to massive debt reduction. We want to get to 229 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 1: that in a second, but real quick, I want to 230 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: ask you to about self control when it comes to budgets. 231 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: You know, we we've tried to change how people view 232 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 1: budgets on our show because we think they get a 233 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: bumb wrap oftentimes, and budgets are so helpful and they 234 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: can be so empowering. And I know you feel the same. 235 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: And you've said that decision fatigue is actually ruining our budgets. 236 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: So so what do you mean by that? Yeah, So, 237 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: decision fatigue is the fatigue that your brain feels after 238 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: making a lot of decisions. It's like when you're buying 239 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: a car and the dealer at the end is going 240 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: through all the add on options and by the end 241 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: of it, you just want to get out of there. 242 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: You've made so many decisions already that you kind of 243 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: just go with whatever he says, Um you'll be more 244 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: easily convinced of the validity of whatever he's saying. So 245 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: so that's what decision fatigue is, and to a lesser extent, 246 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: it pops up every day in our lives. So at 247 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: the grocery store when you are after you've picked all 248 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: your produce and you've made sure you know you've got 249 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: the good stuff, and then you're down in the middle 250 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: aisles and you're really just going for the things that 251 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: are right in front of you because at this point 252 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: you're busy, you've gotta you don't have a lot of time. 253 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: You've got to get out of there. I'll have those 254 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,839 Speaker 1: three boxes of lucky charms end up in mind right right, 255 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: So that's what happens to our brains. After we make 256 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: a lot of decisions, we just can't make any more decisions. 257 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: So reducing the number of decisions you have during the 258 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: day can actually help you stick to your budget better 259 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: because you're not as you're not going to make as 260 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: many of those impulse, poor spending decisions come four or five, 261 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: six o'clock, because that's when it always happens, right, Like 262 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: you do really go to the first part of the day, 263 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: and then by mid afternoon it's kind of like, I 264 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: can't do this anymore. So just trying to reduce the 265 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: number of decisions that you make can be really helpful 266 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: to sticking to your budget. Awesome, Llgen, a lot of 267 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: us are in debts and you've got a new book 268 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: called pay Off your debt for good, and we're gonna 269 00:14:52,360 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: talk about that right after the break. Alright, we'll back 270 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: from the break. We're talking with Jen Smith about frugality 271 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: and debt reduction, and Jen, let's get onto kind of 272 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: some debt reduction tactics. Obviously, it took some intense frugality 273 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: to pay off seventy eight dollars of debt in two years, 274 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: and with an income that was well under six figures. 275 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: A lot of people might find that even unbelievable. So 276 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: tell tell us about the situation you found yourself in 277 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: and how you got about getting rid of that debt 278 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: so quickly. Yeah, So, when my husband and I had 279 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: just gotten married, he told me that the first thing 280 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: he wanted to do with was pay off his student loans. 281 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: And I was like, actually, I don't really want to 282 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: do that because I'm in my twenties and I don't 283 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: want to spend them paying off debt like living under 284 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: a rock, boring, right, And so that was my biggest 285 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: mind block to paying off debt, among other mind blocks. 286 00:15:55,400 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: But he was really great and really gracious about trying 287 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: to get me on board, and it actually didn't take 288 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: me long to kind of come to his side. So 289 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: when we got back from our honeymoon, I immediately went into, Okay, 290 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: if we're going to do this, I'm going all in. 291 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: I'm a very all or nothing person. So we went 292 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: all in. And what should have taken us five years 293 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: what I had planned, you know, the rest of my 294 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: twenties actually just took us twenty three months, so under 295 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: two years. And that was with he was laid off twice. 296 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: In those two years. I could only get twenty five 297 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: hours a week at my main job. That was all 298 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: they had for me. And we bought a house what 299 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: in that two years, right, and we were making sun 300 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: track the cashier at sun Trust, pulling him twenty a 301 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: week right now. It was it was really just like 302 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: put in our head down and making sure that we 303 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: made the most of our time so that we did 304 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: side hustles that weren't paying us, you know, minimum wage, 305 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: but we tried to do higher higher wage side hustles 306 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: UM and then yeah, being frugal. That was it. And 307 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: we never made more than even with all our side hustles. 308 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: We never made more than eight thousand UM in a 309 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: year either of those two years. Actually, I don't think 310 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: we've gotten up to that since we paid up our debt, 311 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: so you're easily living on less than half of what 312 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 1: she made to be able to pay off that much 313 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: debt in in that small amount of time. Yeah, it 314 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: worked out really well going from just living separately to 315 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: combining our finances when we got married, because we were 316 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: already used to a certain lifestyle, so we never increased 317 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: our lifestyle. We just went straight to living off one 318 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: income even when we had to, so we never have 319 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: known anything different. Yeah. Um, well, like you mentioned these 320 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: higher age side hustles, like, can you share some examples 321 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 1: of those that you and your husband did. Yeah, So 322 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: we first tried to leverage what we were already doing professionally. 323 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: So Travis is an aircraft mechanic, and he would go 324 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: to other places in his hangar and he would fill 325 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: out paperwork and sign paperwork for these other mechanics because 326 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: that's like everyone's least favorite part of the job, so 327 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: he would do paperwork for them. I was doing acupuncture 328 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: at the time, so I did that at a rehab center. 329 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 1: So those were like ways that we could leverage our 330 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: education to make more money, and then we just looked 331 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 1: for like the regular side hustles that maybe made a 332 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: little bit more. So Travis drove for Uber, but he 333 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: would only do it during surge times when he can 334 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: make more. And I did online data entry, which you 335 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 1: know wasn't much, but I could do it kind of 336 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes here, fifteen minutes there. So it was a 337 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: great way to like fill in time. Man, you guys 338 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,719 Speaker 1: were industrious, that's for sure. Yeah. One thing like you 339 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 1: will learn about me very quickly is that I have 340 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 1: a hard time like not moving or not doing something, 341 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: of a hard time sitting still. So I mean that 342 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: was actually what taught me to value frugality because I 343 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: did all these side hustles thinking I can just work 344 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: more and pay off debt, and then two months into it, 345 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: I got shingles because of the stress that it was 346 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: causing my body at twenty six years old. Whoa, Yeah, 347 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: So that was what you know, taught me. I was like, Okay, 348 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: I can't hustle my way out of this. I actually 349 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: have to rest. And the only way I can rest 350 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,360 Speaker 1: and still pay off debt fast is to lower my spending. 351 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 1: So that's also part of why you don't focus on 352 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: earning more or you know, I mean, you focus on 353 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: ways to earn more, certainly, but frugality that's maybe an 354 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: even more important aspect of the equation for you, because yeah, 355 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: you saw literal negative health consequences, uh, negative health effects 356 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: from overwork, from overworking, Yeah, exactly. And over the past 357 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: four years that I have been interested in practicing frugality, 358 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: I've seen the benefits of resting and self care and 359 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 1: how you can still make these massive financial gains and 360 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: take care of yourself. It's it's miraculous. You don't have 361 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: to work eighty hours a week in order to do this. Yeah, 362 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: and you shouldn't if even if it took you maybe 363 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: an extra year to pay off your debt, Like, what 364 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 1: are you What are you losing in the grand scheme 365 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: of things by just taking care of yourself and prolonging 366 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: your debt path a little longer? Yeah, yeah, you're so. 367 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: Your newest book, jen is called is a twenty one 368 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: day Guide to paying off debt? So why twenty one days? 369 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: Why is that the magic number to help people learn 370 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: how to pay off their debt? It's kind of it's 371 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 1: kind of an inside joke, but between me and myself 372 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 1: because traditionally on this inside joke, Okay, just for you, guys, 373 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: twenty one days is traditionally what people say it takes 374 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: to build a habit, which is grossly inaccurate. It depends 375 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: on the habit, and it's always more than twenty one days. 376 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: So I I said twenty one days in this guide 377 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: knowing that it's a good start. Um, But that's just 378 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: what it is. It's just to start. And so I 379 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: do talk a lot about building and breaking habits and 380 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: their role in controlling your spending and ultimately sticking to 381 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: your budget. Yeah yeah, well, so on that. So much 382 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: of our personal finances has to do with actually doing 383 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: the right thing versus just understanding the right things to 384 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: do right, So how can we go about creating these 385 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 1: good habits you know when it does come to our money. Yeah, 386 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 1: So the biggest, the most easy way to reduce your 387 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: decision fatigue is to make decisions without things, and that 388 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 1: is all involves habits. You are really good at doing 389 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: things without thinking, Jim, Yes, I love that. I love 390 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 1: doing things without thinking. Um, they're not always good things, 391 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: so for a while you have to be intentional about 392 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: making sure that they're good. Um. And that comes down 393 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: to breaking bad habits. Because we have this finite amount 394 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: of time in the day, and we always find ways 395 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: to fill it. Uh, So you're not going to just 396 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: expect to take a bad habit out and then go 397 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 1: on with your day. You actually have to replace it 398 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: with something hopefully that's good if you're being intentional about it. 399 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: So breaking. Like for me, one of my biggest things 400 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: was like stopping at Chipotle whenever it was dinner time. 401 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: Like I didn't even think about it. It was just, oh, 402 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 1: it's it's around that time. I don't feel like cooking 403 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 1: because I hate cooking, Let's stop at Chipotle. And I 404 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 1: had to stop and realize that, a, that was a habit, 405 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: like I don't even know if I love Chippotle, Like 406 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: I don't even enjoy love Chipotle. It was just a habit. 407 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: And then what do I replace it with? So I 408 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: replaced it with Yes, well, I replaced it with meal planning. 409 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: But even that was hard because six o'clock rolls around 410 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: and I'm hungry, but I don't have any food. So 411 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,360 Speaker 1: I then I had to go to step further and 412 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: start meal prepping on Sundays, so like pre chopping things 413 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 1: so that everything for the week was ready to go 414 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: so I could just dump it in a pot and 415 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,959 Speaker 1: then turn it on, and that would take about as 416 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: much time as going to Chippole, waiting for my order 417 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 1: and coming back. So I had to replace my bad 418 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,360 Speaker 1: habit of just going to Chipotle with a pre prepared, 419 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: good habit. That was almost it was harder to go 420 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: to Chippotle at that point than to just cook what 421 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: I had because it was already pre chapped and it 422 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: was going to go bad if I didn't. That was 423 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: the biggest example of habits in my life and reducing 424 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: decision fatigue. Hmm, yeah, that's good stuff, and I think, yeah, 425 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: the habit replacement so so clutch, so key in order 426 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: to to helping us do the right thing without thinking right. 427 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: And another helpful thing is to have some accountability. So 428 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 1: anytime we're trying to accomplish something, it's helpful to have 429 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: someone cheering us on, holding us accountable, helping us out. 430 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: So what are some things to figure out when we're 431 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 1: trying to create an accountability relationship someone uh to to 432 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: to get someone in our corner helping us actually achieve 433 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 1: some of these goals that we have, especially when it 434 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: comes to debt reduction. Yeah, So first is to look 435 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: in your own home. Obviously, if you're married or living 436 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: with a partner, then that would be your first place 437 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 1: to look for an accountability partner. But that is not 438 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: always the case, and it doesn't mean that you shouldn't 439 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 1: try to pay off debt even if your partner is 440 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: not on board. I say to kind of be more 441 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,959 Speaker 1: of the in inspiration um take the lead on it 442 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: if your partners not on board, but don't pressure them 443 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: and don't like nag them to be on board, because 444 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: they're more likely to be inspired by you than pressured 445 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: by you to join you. So if you don't have 446 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: that at home, then starting out with friends can be 447 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: a good one. I started a blog. That's how I started, 448 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: you know what I do today? Yes, holding itself accountable 449 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: in a in a sense right, And so I would 450 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,239 Speaker 1: just write what I was learning and then posted on 451 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: my Facebook and then that would start conversations with different 452 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 1: people and that kind of attracted me to people that 453 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: were on the same path, and so there were some 454 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: there was some accountability there. And if you don't have that, 455 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: then on Instagram there's a huge debt free community. Literally, 456 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,959 Speaker 1: if you type in hashtag debt free community, then you 457 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: will find them. Um, there's tons of people trying to 458 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: pay off debt, supporting each other, sharing their journeys. So 459 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 1: it can be as close as home or as far 460 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 1: away as around the world, but accountability is out there 461 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: and it will inspire and motivate you to keep going 462 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: and and give you a place to vent when things suck, 463 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: because things will suck. Uh. So you just mentioned social media. 464 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: You've also specifically mentioned how simplifying you know, your online 465 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: presence can be a big factor in helping individuals to 466 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 1: kind of pay off their debt. Why do you think 467 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 1: that is? Yeah, because even unintentionally, we scroll social media 468 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: and we see things that our friends are doing, things 469 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: that they're wearing, things they have, and we just automatically 470 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: want it. So it's not even that they're showing off. 471 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 1: It's just that something inside of us is triggered to 472 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: want that thing. And so by emitting your social media 473 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: you limit that um you know, friend advertising, and it 474 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: translates into saving money. So while social media can be 475 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: a really powerful tool, it's also something that you don't 476 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: want to get wrapped up in. So maybe choosing one 477 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: social media to really invest in UM or even un 478 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: following people who tend to be more of a trigger 479 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: for you. I know one of my best friends, she 480 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: was my best friend before, she's my best friend now. 481 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: But during our debt payoff, I had to unfollow her 482 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: because she was doing all this cool stuff and getting 483 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 1: all these cool things that I wanted. Yeah, and it 484 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: was a trigger for me, and so I had to 485 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 1: unfollow her for that time. Um, and she never knew. 486 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: I never told her, you don't have to, but I 487 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: needed to do that so that I could keep going. Yeah, 488 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: you're finding a way to kind of curate who you 489 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: follow is this is clutch. My wife Kate is amazing 490 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,120 Speaker 1: at is cutting people left and right. And because she's 491 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: Instagram as like a tool to help her learn, uh 492 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 1: specifically maybe about something that she's interested in. And so 493 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: if she's kind of done with learning how to cook 494 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 1: with her install plot, she will unfollow all those people 495 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: who are into cooking, and then she follows all these 496 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: nurseries and all these plaint people because now she's trying 497 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: to learn about, you know, taking care of house plants. 498 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: She's really good about doing that, and then finding ways 499 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: to allow that knowledge to kind of teach her versus 500 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: just kind of passively being fed you know whatever that 501 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: algorithms want to feed us. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, well that's great. 502 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: I mean I think social media can have such an impact, 503 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: and it's also it's hard to see what the impact 504 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: is on us. One of the biggest things that I've done, 505 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: I think I mentioned on a show a while back, 506 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: and the news feed eradicator plug in for Facebook. Have it. 507 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: I love it. I don't see any long winded post 508 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: on Facebook. I only specifically go to the groups that 509 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: I'm a part of, in particular, you know how the 510 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: money group is my favorite. But yeah, going there, I 511 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: go directly there and I bypass all just the crazy 512 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: stuff that you would typically see on Facebook, and um, 513 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: it makes it more of a tool that I can 514 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: use and enjoy as opposed to this thing that's trying 515 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: to suck my attention and also suck some dollars out 516 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: of my life too oftentimes. Yeah. I have the news 517 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: feed Eradicator, and during quarantine I had to take the 518 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: Facebook app off my phone because it was just getting 519 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: too much. So now I don't see anything from the 520 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: news feed and it's it's magical. Yeah, it is truly magical. Alright, Well, Jen, 521 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: we got some some more questions for you, including how 522 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: paying off debt maybe changes does it change when it 523 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: comes to living in an economic downturn. We'll get to 524 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: some of those questions right after the break. Okay, we're 525 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: talking with Jen Smith about frugality and paying down some debt. Jen, 526 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: let's talk about sort of the times that we're in 527 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: right now. You know, some of the economic downturns that 528 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: we've experienced. Um, we're kind of still in the middle 529 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: of that. Do you feel that this has changed your 530 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: advice at all two folks and how they pay down 531 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: their debt? It has changed it a little bit. Yeah, 532 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: And I think if anybody tells you different than they're 533 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: kind of out of touch. But normally we say to 534 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: have a small emergency fund and then go hard at 535 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: paying your debt. But I think right now is the 536 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: time to have that fully funded emergency fund first, um, 537 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: and then get back to paying off your debt. Because 538 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: even though we are coming out of you know, the 539 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: really bad times that were March April May, there's still 540 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: a lot of things we don't know about for you know, 541 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: the coming year or so. So to have that cash 542 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:53,959 Speaker 1: cushion that you can make some hard decisions with so 543 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: you can make harder, more difficult decisions about work and 544 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: life if you know that you have cash to fall 545 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: back on and and that's what you want to focus 546 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: on first, and then think about paying off debt. But 547 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: also don't think about or don't forget about investing, because 548 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: this is a good time to maybe start to dabble 549 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: in it um at least with a four oh one 550 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: K or an i R. Because stock prices are relatively 551 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: low right now. They're not great recession low, but it's 552 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: still something to think about. You can play around with 553 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: it maybe. Yeah. So Matt and I talked a couple 554 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: of months ago about kind of some stats that showed 555 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: that Americans seem to be saving more and frugality seems 556 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: to be a little bit more in vogue right now. 557 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: So have you seen and do you think we'll continue 558 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: to see a surge in folks maybe defecting from a 559 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: high spending lifestyle to a more frugal approach right now? Absolutely, 560 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, I think this year was the shock that 561 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: a lot of people needed to wake up from what 562 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: their lifestyle was doing to their future. So I think 563 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: that at least for the foreseeable future, frugality is still 564 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: going to be a really important part of people's lives. 565 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: So people should think about that when they're considering paying 566 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: off debt, because that means the side hustles that were 567 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: really lucrative before all this are not going to be 568 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: as lucrative. So frugality is going to be even more 569 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: important for people relying on side hustles to pay off 570 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: debt or make ends meet, because, yeah, we're not going 571 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: to see what we saw. We were at the end 572 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: of the longest bull market in history. People were doing 573 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: really well, um, and we're just not going to be 574 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: there again for a little while. Yeah, there are a 575 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of folks who graduated college and 576 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: then got a job, started investing, and yeah, they've never 577 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: seen they've never seen the kind of the times that 578 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: we're living in now. And I totally agree with you 579 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: as far as this kind of being more of a 580 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: wake up call. So going back to the emergency fund 581 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: real quicktion, I was curious if you had an amount 582 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: maybe that you would recommend to folks before before these 583 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: tough times, you know, because a lot of times folk 584 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: would say like three to six months worth of living 585 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: expenses for you personally, I'm curious, Yeah, what do you 586 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: feel comfortable with as far as the size of your 587 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: cash cushion. So it depends on how many people you 588 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: have in your family and how volatile your job is. 589 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: If you have a really safe, secure job and you 590 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: are living alone, then three months could be okay for you. 591 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: Three months worth of a bare bones budget and giving 592 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: a little extra that could be fine. But if you 593 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: have a large family, you're an entrepreneur, you are unsure 594 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: of how long you're going to have your job, then 595 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: six months definitely. Uh. And then that's going to be 596 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: even more increased because your bare bones budget is going 597 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: to be pretty hefty. So that's kind of how I 598 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: tell people think of it, like how volatile is your job, 599 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: how big is your family? Uh? And go from there. Yeah, 600 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: gen money challenges no spend challenges. This can actually help 601 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: us ramp up to increasing that emergency fund in a 602 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: big way pretty quickly, and it might be great to 603 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: implement during some lean times like this. So even if 604 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: folks income, even if their income hasn't changed recently, why 605 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 1: do you think people should consider one of these no 606 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: spend challenges? I have been a fan of no spend 607 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: challenges since we were paying off debt. Because I am 608 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: very all or nothing, so trying to do moderation was 609 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: just not working for me. So the only thing that 610 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,839 Speaker 1: really moved the needle in making me aware of my 611 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: spending and saving significantly was to challenge myself to not 612 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: spend on anything besides obvious bills and things that I 613 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: needed to live. So for the first few weeks that 614 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: was definitely hard. I was making more decisions than normal 615 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: because I was actively thinking about not buying things I 616 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: would have habitually bought anyways. But after that it got 617 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 1: me to a point where I was saving a couple 618 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 1: hundred bucks every time, a couple hundred extra bucks every 619 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,280 Speaker 1: time I would do one of these challenges for a month. 620 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: And more than that, it made me aware of what 621 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: my habits were, what my triggers were for impulse spending, 622 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: so like the kind of day I was having at 623 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: work or whatnot. So it made me more aware, and 624 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: it taught me lessons that I took into my life 625 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 1: after the challenge was over so that I could start 626 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: trying to consciously make these decisions um and it really 627 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: changed the way I budget. It changed a lot of 628 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: things for me, Like, how would you recommend for someone 629 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: to go about like one of these no spend challenges? 630 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 1: I mean, do you basically just say, all right, I'm 631 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 1: not going to spend any money any money except I 632 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 1: guess you know you have to spend money on on food. 633 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,839 Speaker 1: But like, like how your strike for a month too? Man, 634 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to do a juice try it? But yeah, 635 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: like like what guidelines are or what parameters would you 636 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 1: encourage folks to set up or to think through if 637 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: they're wanting to do one of these no spend challenges? 638 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,240 Speaker 1: I recommend that everyone try to do their own unique 639 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,719 Speaker 1: kind of no spend challenge. So don't just take the 640 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 1: rules that somebody else gives you and try to replicate them, 641 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: because you know the most about your spending. Even if 642 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: you feel like you don't know anything about it, you 643 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: still know the most about it. So look at your 644 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: transactions from the last few months and see what has 645 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: still been a source of overspending for you. For a 646 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: lot of people, right now I know is shopping on Amazon. 647 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: So before before this, I know the same people, it 648 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: was restaurant spending. So just look at what you're spending 649 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: has been on and then try and cut those things 650 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: out during a no spend challenge, and you could go 651 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: all the way and just cut out everything except for 652 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,879 Speaker 1: fresh produce stuff like that. That's kind of what we did. 653 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: But you don't have to really make it your own. 654 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: You can focus on one or two things at a time. 655 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 1: You can do everything. You can do. One of my 656 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,280 Speaker 1: favorite things right now is instead of doing a full 657 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 1: month to try and accumulate fifteen no spend days throughout 658 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: the month, it's a lot more manageable. I got that 659 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: tip from my friend Kate at that Debt Free Life 660 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: on Instagram, and she did it for a whole year 661 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: and accumulated to six months of not spending by doing 662 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,879 Speaker 1: that system for a year, and so it's a lot 663 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 1: less restrictive. Yeah, it's a great idea. So really make 664 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: it your own, challenge yourself in a way that is 665 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: going to be challenging but not overwhelming. Yeah. I love that. 666 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 1: And there's something so empowering about realizing that you can 667 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 1: curb your spending in a way like that, right and 668 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,319 Speaker 1: and kind of giving yourself. Matt and I've talked about gamification, 669 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 1: how that can be such an important way of getting 670 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,359 Speaker 1: control of your finances and that's a way of gamifying it, right. 671 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,399 Speaker 1: It's challenging, challenging yourself and you're like, no, I'm gonna 672 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: beat this, I'm gonna do this, and then you see 673 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,399 Speaker 1: the results and you're like, dude, I did it. Um, 674 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: it's so encouraging. Yes, that's exactly what I say about it. 675 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: It's gamifying frugality. Yeah, all right, last question for you, Jen. 676 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: You do a bill of the week on every episode 677 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: of the Frugal Friends podcast. So do you have a 678 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:22,800 Speaker 1: favorite bill this week? Oh? I So I'm going to 679 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: say the one that I say every time I'm asked 680 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:30,760 Speaker 1: this because it's truly my favorite bill. I love Bill 681 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: Curtis from Most Notably anchor Man. He is the anchorman, 682 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: voice and anchorman, but he is also the scorekeeper on 683 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 1: Wait Weight, Don't Tell Me? Oh gotchuh, So both crowds 684 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 1: to two different crowds will will know who he is. 685 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: So and every week he opens wait Weight, Don't Tell 686 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: Me with a pun like on the word Bill, and 687 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 1: I every time I smile because I wish that I 688 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: could say them also on our show. But sorry, I 689 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: know that is your favorite bill, favorite bill, Jen, Thanks 690 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,359 Speaker 1: so much for joining us. How can our listeners find 691 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,920 Speaker 1: out more about you and what you're up to. So 692 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 1: we have a new episode of Frugal Friends podcast every 693 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:25,440 Speaker 1: single Friday. This Friday, actually we have Rachel Cruise on 694 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:31,359 Speaker 1: the show talking about budgeting. Yeah so of Ramsey Industries. Correct, yes, yes, 695 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 1: uh so We've got Rachel on and she's super fun. 696 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: And then I also do videos every week um at 697 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 1: modern frugality dot com and Modern Frugality on YouTube. So 698 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: if you want to see my face, there is no 699 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,799 Speaker 1: shortage of places to see it. Excellent, love it well, Jen, 700 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 1: thanks so much for taking the time out of your day. 701 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 1: We know you are busy as well. And thanks so 702 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,320 Speaker 1: much too for sharing your story. I think this is 703 00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: going to be really encouraging for a lot of folks 704 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: as they are are setting out to pay down lots 705 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 1: of debt as well. So thanks again for coming on 706 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,879 Speaker 1: the podcast. Thank you for allowing me to come. All right, man, 707 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 1: that was such a great conversation with Jen. I'll eve 708 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: her take on frugality. I love her dedication to paying 709 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 1: off debt. Uh learned a lot definitely talking to her 710 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:16,799 Speaker 1: about this, because you know, I'm I'm one of those 711 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 1: people I've been fortunate to never have just a massive 712 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 1: amount of debt to pay off. But but I love 713 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:22,920 Speaker 1: hearing from people that have been able to do it, 714 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: because that's a situation that so many people find themselves in, 715 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,359 Speaker 1: and it's something that I can't speak too directly, right. 716 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: I think we have advice on that, but it's not 717 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: something that I've had personal experience with us to bringing 718 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: on somebody like Jen. So helpful. Um, but I want 719 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 1: to know what was your big takeaway from from our 720 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,279 Speaker 1: conversation with Jen? Yeah, so mine has to do with 721 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 1: how her and her husband were making that extra money 722 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 1: in order to pay down that debt. Yeah, when she 723 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,840 Speaker 1: said that the original plan was to pay down their 724 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 1: debt in five years, but then somehow they're able to 725 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: do it into something serious was going on. Obviously, she's probably, 726 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: you know, the queen of being frugal, because you have 727 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 1: to make massive cuts in order to get your expenses 728 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 1: down to to pay down that debt. But they were 729 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 1: also making a lot of money on the side, and 730 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,439 Speaker 1: specifically she kind of highlighted how they were leveraging their 731 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,799 Speaker 1: professional careers and making additional money in those areas. Right, 732 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 1: they weren't necessarily recycling cans and and doing all these 733 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,759 Speaker 1: small ways to kind of move the needle a little bit. 734 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 1: They were looking at like, where do we have expertise? 735 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: How can we leverage our careers to make extra money 736 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: that way? I think that's a brilliant way of going 737 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 1: about it, because when you're already proficient in a specific industry, 738 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: that should probably be the first stop as far as 739 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 1: where you need to focus your efforts in order to 740 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: make more money. Yeah. I love how her husband was 741 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,880 Speaker 1: taking the work that nobody else wanted to do that 742 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 1: and he was getting some some side hustle money from 743 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: people he worked with by filling out the paperwork that 744 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,279 Speaker 1: nobody else wanted to do. Like, what a brilliant thing 745 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 1: to do. And that's kind of one of those things 746 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,359 Speaker 1: it's easy to think about. And and she even said, yeah, 747 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 1: they did a little bit of of driving for Uber. 748 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 1: Her husband did that only during searche times and and 749 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:53,920 Speaker 1: that can be smart too. But yeah, finding the way 750 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 1: to leverage the expertise you currently have is a brilliant 751 00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 1: way to make some extra money. So well, how about you, 752 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 1: mail What was your big take away from this episode? 753 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: I think when Jen said that we've kind of all 754 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,399 Speaker 1: gone through a little bit of a shock right now 755 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 1: with the pandemic, and we've been able to see kind 756 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,920 Speaker 1: of maybe a little bit more what our lifestyle is 757 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,279 Speaker 1: doing to our future. When she said that, that kind 758 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,279 Speaker 1: of struck a chord with me. I think we don't 759 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 1: often think about it like that. We don't think about 760 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,799 Speaker 1: how our current lifestyle is impacting our future ability to 761 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: live life on our own terms. But if we can 762 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:23,880 Speaker 1: think about it a little more like that, if we 763 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: can realize that the choices we make today affect our 764 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 1: future selves, affect future Matt, future Joel, and they have 765 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,919 Speaker 1: a big impact on how much we're forced to work 766 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,200 Speaker 1: and the ultimate freedom and flexibility that that we have. 767 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,879 Speaker 1: I hope more of us are realizing that our current 768 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,840 Speaker 1: choices have this big impact um on our future selves 769 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: and actually are probably having a big impact on how 770 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:46,799 Speaker 1: we're able to live life right now. If if things 771 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,000 Speaker 1: have become a little bit tougher, But yeah, the more 772 00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: that we can can change things now, the more it's 773 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,120 Speaker 1: going to have an impact on us being able to 774 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,640 Speaker 1: to choose for ourselves how we want to live, what 775 00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,160 Speaker 1: we want to do. So, yeah, don't so, Yeah, if 776 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: you have gone through the shock to a certain degree. 777 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,239 Speaker 1: Don't let it have a negative impact on you. Let 778 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,040 Speaker 1: it be kind of a positive shock that redirects kind 779 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,720 Speaker 1: of the way that you seek to to spend your money, 780 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,000 Speaker 1: the way that you seek to save and invest. Because 781 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: sometimes we need that shock to the system. Sometimes we 782 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: need kind of a two by four to the side 783 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,400 Speaker 1: of the face to kind of get us moving in 784 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,560 Speaker 1: the right direction. Right, maybe not actually a two by four, 785 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,320 Speaker 1: all of your your illustrations, who are so violent? No, 786 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,319 Speaker 1: I agree though, like using these experiences to fuel us, right, 787 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 1: and knowing that small changes now can have a massive 788 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,040 Speaker 1: change on our future cells, and our future cells will 789 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 1: think our former sells all right. For a non violent 790 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,759 Speaker 1: um example, it's it's like the rudder on the back 791 00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 1: of a ship. Like a small rudder can turn a 792 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,399 Speaker 1: big ship. It doesn't turn it super quickly. Right that 793 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 1: that one little move you make that and that second 794 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: little move you make the inches that the rudder is moving, 795 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,319 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to be making a difference. But then 796 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,360 Speaker 1: give it a second exactly, and then the whole course 797 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,759 Speaker 1: of of the ship starts to change. And twenty four 798 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,440 Speaker 1: hours later you're in the Bahamas, you know, And so 799 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:02,279 Speaker 1: It is one of those things that that that that 800 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,480 Speaker 1: those small changes actually do have a major impact on 801 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,520 Speaker 1: where you're headed and where you end up. Yeah, man, 802 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,160 Speaker 1: all right, well this episode was a blast. And we 803 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:11,839 Speaker 1: didn't actually have a beer on this episode since we're 804 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:13,760 Speaker 1: recording this one in the morning, but this audi coffee 805 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 1: was tasty. Yeah, it was doing the cold brew uh 806 00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,799 Speaker 1: here in the summer months. This was fantastic. So let's 807 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:20,239 Speaker 1: go ahead and wrap up the episode. Man. We'll have 808 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:21,840 Speaker 1: our show notes up on the website at how to 809 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,839 Speaker 1: money dot com and we'll link to Jen's podcast as 810 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:26,960 Speaker 1: well as her site where she blogs as well. Yeah, 811 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 1: for folks that have enjoyed this episode, definitely go check 812 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,240 Speaker 1: out Jen's podcast, And if you have been enjoying this podcast, 813 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,880 Speaker 1: please hit the subscribe button leave a review if you 814 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,399 Speaker 1: if you feel so inclined. We'd appreciate that, and so Matt. 815 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,680 Speaker 1: Until next time, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.