WEBVTT - Bear Hunting With Hounds in the Appalachians with Houston Valley Plotts 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.640 You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network powered by 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:08.520 Interstate Batteries from your truck to your trail camera. Interstate 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.440 Batteries as you covered. Visit your local Interstate Batteries store 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:17.880 today or online at Interstate Batteries dot com. Interstate Batteries 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:27.280 outrageously Dependable. My name is Clay Nucleman. I'm the host 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:31.240 of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:34.519 host into the world of hunting the icon of the 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:40.839 North American wilderness. We'll talk about tactics, gear conservation who 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:43.760 also bring you into some of the wildest country on 0:00:43.960 --> 0:01:00.720 the planet. Chasing battery. Hello, always walking down through here 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:03.639 in a bunch of dogs free ranging and we'll look 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:05.600 down and seeing the track what they took off. Well, 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:07.760 we didn't really want all of them to go, but 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:19.080 they're gone. Thanks for checking out the Bear Hunting Magazine Podcast. 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.760 I want to give a little bit of history, a 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:26.639 little bit of background about this podcast and why I 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.440 was where I was at and what had actually happened 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:33.319 even that day and the day before. I just got 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:38.880 back from being in eastern Tennessee. Tracy and Ben Jones. 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.520 They are a father and son that have a long 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:46.360 family history of hunting with plots and the Appalachian Mountains 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:50.520 for bear. I'd contacted Ben several weeks ago and said, hey, 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:52.800 I'd like to film a hound hunt. He said, well, 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:54.640 come on, and I said, well, I've got two days, 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:57.520 and that's a short time to be on a successful hunt. 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:01.320 But the day before I left was when they had 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:05.280 the massive snowstorm over in eastern Tennessee and western North Carolina. 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:08.960 We hunted for two days and it had some tremendous 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:12.560 bear races and I really got to see some fantastic 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:16.000 dog work. And we had a race that started at 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:18.400 ten o'clock in the morning on the first day I 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:21.600 was there that lasted until nine o'clock at night. When 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.960 Ben went in in the dark and pulled his dogs 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:27.920 off of a off of a bear that was basically 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:31.960 walking on the ground. I was war to the bone 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:35.359 in terms of physical strength. Ben as a mountain man. 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:39.840 He's twenty five years old, twenty four and he ge whiz. 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.640 He can walk like a gazelle in the mountains. And 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.320 I had a hard time, but an awesome time keeping 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:49.480 up with him for two days. One day we had 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:53.400 that long race. The second day we started out pretty quick, 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.240 found a bear. Two and a half miles in on 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:00.880 foot leading dogs. We found a bear and the bear 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:04.720 immediately jumped and ran into the bear sanctuary, and so 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.560 the race ended. We caught the dogs off the bear 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:12.520 and pretty much our hunt was over. Bear hunting with 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:15.360 hounds is something that many people don't understand, and if 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:17.680 you're listening to this podcast and you've never done it, 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:21.720 you probably don't get it. Bear Hunting Magazine our desire 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:26.520 is to show all aspects of bear hunting, and bear 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:29.480 hunting with hounds is the most traditional method to hunt 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:34.800 bear in North America. All these guys, Daniel Boone hunted 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:38.680 with hounds. A lot of historical hunters hunt with hounds. 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:42.720 North Carolina, the state dog is the plot hound. The 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:46.920 plothhound was developed and the Appalachian Mountains and its identity 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:50.360 was formed around bear hunting. It's a super small world. 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:55.320 It's a it's a small niche of people that are 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.240 committed to this really lifestyle. You can't just have a 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:01.800 bear hound, and you can't just have two bare hounds. 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:04.200 If you're gonna be a serious bear hunter, you've gotta 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:07.920 have a pack of hounds. It's a year round process. 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.200 It's expensive, and these guys devote a big section of 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:15.560 their life to training and raising bare hounds. And the 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:19.200 barehound is an exceptional animal that has to have a 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:22.800 unique set of characteristics. I mean, just really make it 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:25.760 an exceptional Got my, somebody that didn't know my look 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:28.040 out into the backyard of some bear hunter and see 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:32.000 what their eyes perceive as a rough looking old hound. 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:34.960 But let me tell you, if you really knew what 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:37.120 that was, you'd look at that hound and you'd say, 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.839 my goodness, that is an exceptional animal that has been 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:47.159 bred for nose, for speed, for athleticism, for fearlessness. It's 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:51.920 been bred for for trainability and loyalty. It's been bred 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:54.560 to have good solid feet so it can run for 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:59.280 days and days. It's been bred for grit, the desire 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:01.880 to in in, the courage to stay on a bear 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.120 when a bear turns to fight. There's a lot of 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.520 things that have to happen. So the barehound world is 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:10.560 extremely complex and hard to understand. And here's the most 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:14.800 important thing. The bare hound world and bare hunting with 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.960 hounds is the lowest hanging fruit. And I want to 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.679 tell you why it's important to you. If you don't 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:23.200 even hunt with hounds, and don't care to hunt with hounds, 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:25.560 and maybe you don't even like hounds. But if you're 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.520 a hunter and you want to continue to see our 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:33.200 freedoms as hunters in the modern age continue, I will 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:35.280 tell you that bare hunting with hounds is the low 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:38.800 hanging fruit for the anti hunting community in this country, 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:41.800 in this world, and their desire is to pick it 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:46.160 off and to absolutely extinguish it. Why does that matter 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.320 to the guy that doesn't even like hound hunting is 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:52.400 because in the long game, and that's why we've all 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:55.039 got to turn our eyes towards is the long game. 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.720 If we truly are concerned about the freedoms that our 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:03.360 sons and daughters, grandchildren and great grandchildren will have long 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:07.240 after we are gone, should this earth persist? Is that 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:09.479 we got to play the long game. And in the 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.480 long game, if they pick off the low hanging fruit, 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:15.240 then all of a sudden, the next rung up the 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:18.200 ladder is the low hanging fruit, and they'll be after 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:22.520 something next. And the anti hunting community has a strategy 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:26.920 of incrementalism. They want to pick us off one section 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.440 at a time, and eventually there will be a generation 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:34.080 of people that wake up and will be like Europe 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:37.520 and where people can run around and hunt game birds 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.360 raised on a farm, and the very thing that has 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:44.800 given American hunters the identity that we have and the 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:47.880 freedoms that we have, and the very thing that has 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:51.280 made wildlife thrive in this country more than any other 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:54.919 place on the planet. North American model for wildlife conservation 0:06:55.720 --> 0:07:00.200 is the most successful model of wildlife conservation ever in 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.840 the history of man. We have more big game than 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:07.000 any place on the planet and it's because of conservation 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:10.400 minded hunters. And bear hunting with hounds is a tool 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:15.080 used by bear managers to harvest bear in a regulated way. 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:17.680 And even if you don't like hound hunting, even if 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.880 you've been offended by hound hunters and states that you live, 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:25.680 I petition you to give them a chance and just 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:31.280 out of principle, just out of principle, support hound hunting. 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:36.600 And I also implore the hound hunters to be respectful, 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:41.520 to to respect property boundaries, and to respect other hunters 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:44.680 in the woods, and to you know, clean up their 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:46.560 game in a lot of ways. If we can all 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:50.120 stand in unification in these certain areas, it's gonna mean 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:53.640 a lot. So Hey, that's a quick commentary. Why this 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:57.600 matters to someone who's not a hound hunt. I think 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:00.680 you're gonna enjoy this podcast. You're gonna learn at about 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:04.880 bear hounds. You're gonna learn about the history of bear 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:09.640 hunting the Appalachian Mountains, and I had a great conversation 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:20.000 with Tracy Jones. Enjoy all right, Welcome to the Bear 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:24.960 Hunting Magazine Podcast. I am in Greenville, Tennessee. Not Greenville, 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:29.240 Tennessee proper, though we're outside of Greenville, Tennessee ten miles YEP, 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:33.120 about den miles south of Greenville, Okay. And I have 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:37.880 been bear hunting with t L and Ben Jones for 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.280 the last two days. I kind of put him in 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:44.320 a bind. I talked to him about three weeks ago. 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:47.400 Talk to Ben, and I'm going to introduce who these 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:49.400 guys are. I've got t L with me here. But 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.559 about three weeks ago, I guess I had contacted you 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:55.840 guys and said I want to do a bear hunt 0:08:56.679 --> 0:09:02.880 and the Appalachians and you guys were hospitable enough to 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:04.920 let me come up and hunt. But I only had 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.880 two days. And then the day before I got here, 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:13.480 we had this real bad snow um, which according to y'all, 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:17.160 could have been good, could have been bad, and uh, 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:18.880 but I came up here, and man, I've had an 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:21.680 awesome time. I really have, so thank you so much. 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:24.679 Who I've got here in front of me is Tracy Jones, 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:29.080 and so Tracy is uh, Tracy is a pastor here 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:33.800 and bear hunter. Tracy introduced yourself, my son and I 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:39.160 live in Green County, Tennessee. My my papa, A lot 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:42.080 of people knew him, Barry Taunting, He's well known with 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.000 plot people. And then my dad, Terry Jones, was the 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:49.120 bar hunter plots. And I have several other family members 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:52.240 that were really good bar hunters and plot men, my 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:58.040 cousin Charles Lowry and my cousin Rocky Lowry. And it's 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:00.440 just always been a you know, a family thing and 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:05.040 a lot of friends around us too. Yeah m hm. So, 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.800 so you guys have been hunting plots since the nineteen fifties. 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:16.040 When when Barry, Barry, Charles and your grandfather started getting plots. Yeah, 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:18.760 we don't know the exact date that he got his 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:22.959 first plot. Um, my cousin Charles got a puppy from 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:25.480 him in nineteen sixty five. So we know it pre 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:30.480 dates nineteen sixty. Uh, Papa went on a bear hunt 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:34.840 with Vaughn Plot, and if I remember correctly, it was 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:42.160 down in Gatlinburg before Gatlinburg was really commercialized. And sometime 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.920 dearing that hunt, von Plot just convinced my my grandfather, 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:49.280 who was hunting different things, he Kuna had mostly and 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:52.480 had started treading some bar at night, I wanted to 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:55.240 bear hunt, and uh, Vaughn talked to him in to 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:57.959 giving Plots a tribe, but then he wouldn't sell him 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:02.600 a dog. And so my path Bass started looking around 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:07.240 trying to find a plot. And I'm not exactly sure 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:09.920 where he got his first one at I don't think 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:15.839 he really remembered where the first one came from. Um 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:18.800 early on he did get a plot out of Kentucky 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.719 from a man named Benny Moore, but I don't think 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:26.679 that was the first one, but that was an earlier one. Yeah. 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:32.040 And so the strain of dogs that came from Barry 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:38.520 and Charles Lowry was is this Houston Valley line? Yeah. Uh, 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.360 Like I said, we know that he had litteral pups 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:47.479 in sixty I don't know what those dogs were exactly 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.440 where the Houston Valley line really got its start was 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:56.800 in the early seventies. Papal got a female pup from 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:01.360 Gene White who had White Holla loots and they were 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:03.559 very close friends. And if you look at the paperwork, 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:07.480 Jeane basically was just getting starred in plots too. And 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:11.079 jean had got the white Holla junior dog and it 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:15.880 was out of some Kermit Alison dogs and uh, I 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:20.959 think some Williams bred dogs. And White Halla Jr. Was 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:23.240 a dog my my papa really thought a lot of 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:27.200 He hunted with him several times up in Canada and 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:31.720 this female pup my papa got he her name was Jack. 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:38.079 She got hurt and was physically unable to keep bear hunting, 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:40.959 so he went back to Jean and they did a 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:46.400 pup swap and Jeanne kept the Jap dog and my 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:51.280 papa got a dog that is caught her on her papers. 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:54.199 Her name was Roberta. They called her Polly around the house, 0:12:55.400 --> 0:13:01.320 but Roberta became the foundation of Houston Valley plots. Yeah. Yeah, 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:05.199 I think that's a good place to even jump in 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:09.520 and describe some of the kind of a strain of hounds. 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:11.440 I think some people that listen to this may not 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:14.680 be real familiar with hounds and even hound hunting over here, 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:19.000 and so what what seems to have happened, And Terry 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:23.160 tell me if this is Terry Tracy, tell me if 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:27.640 if this is accurate, is that in these mountains, there 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:31.560 would be guys that started bear hunting, they started getting 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:35.400 good dogs, and they they bred good dogs to good dogs, 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:41.200 and they typically these mountain people wanted to keep they 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:44.320 wanted to keep dogs in the hands of family and 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:48.560 the fans, in the hands of loyal friends, and and 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:52.720 keeping pretty tighten it for many reasons, one of which 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:56.440 would be that if you sold dogs or sent dogs 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.079 way off, if it was the if it was the 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:01.440 best dog in the world world, you wouldn't really be 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.280 able to have that much access to to breed back 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.439 into it. But these guys wanted to they wanted to 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.920 keep their good dogs pretty tight. And and there's these 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.520 so in the in in the different breeds, and especially 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:18.640 the plot breed, there's these pretty tight strains of plots. 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:22.240 So they're all registered plothounds. I mean, so there's in 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:25.920 it's it's a breed just like a American border collie, 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:29.640 I mean, you know, plothound, but inside of the plothound. 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:34.000 It's almost like there's these real tight strains and Houston 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:36.760 Valley is one of them, and there's all these others too. 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:40.480 But to me, that's really neat because just the the 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:44.480 culture and the in the long standing history of breeding. 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.160 I mean, you could look back at papers on your 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.760 dogs and you hunted with a lot of those dogs, 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.400 and then before you were born, probably there was a 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:55.160 lot of dogs, but you would know the history of 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.760 those dogs. You would know the characteristics of those dogs. 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:00.920 And so what you've got sixty years into this tight 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:05.640 blind bread in some cases strain of dogs is is 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:09.720 something that's really predictable from a breeding standpoint, and that 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:12.960 it's gonna be I mean, you you breed dogs, you 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:15.760 I mean, they're not all gonna be perfect, but you 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:26.520 know what you're getting right um our pubs right now 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:31.440 depending on what females bread to what male go back 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:38.240 about I think twelve generations to Roberta, and uh, almost 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:43.240 every dog that we've bred that we have now goes 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:49.080 back to Roberta. And so you know, that's our foundation 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:53.840 that we work from. And the Jap dog actually became 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:58.280 foundational for Jeans dogs and I think she was also 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:02.520 really foundational for uh, some of the Polly dogs out 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:06.200 of Michigan to the Jap Dog was and some other folks. 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:10.640 And then later on Steve Fielder ended up with a 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.720 pup out of the Roberta Dog and Big Timber. A 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:17.120 lot of people are familiar with Cascade Big Timber and 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:20.640 the Bronco Dog was really important in his breeding program. 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:24.360 So the Roberta Dog has a lot of influence in 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.680 the plot breed that I guess some folks wouldn't pay 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:30.480 attention to. You know, my grandfather, my Patha, was never 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:36.080 into advertising and um, but in reference to the family 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:40.400 type thing, I want delve into plot history because even 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:45.440 among hardcore plot people that's so controversial that I just 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.960 don't want in the middle that. Uh. There's basically two 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:53.200 theories when you bullet all down to the bottom line. 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:57.000 One is pretty much the Plot brothers came over from 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:00.720 Germany and they were never outcrossed on anything whatsoever and 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:03.920 bred down with the family. Uh. The other theory, and 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:07.119 what you're talking about is the origins of the plot breed, 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:12.679 which which which which would have come from Germany pretty 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:16.159 much eventually into North Carolina and then specifically the western 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:19.040 North Carolina in the plot Bostom and then would have 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.280 been filter as a place it's a place of valley. Yeah, 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.360 and then the plots would have been filtered out from 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.600 plot Bosom, you know, pretty much around the clube now 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:33.159 and uh, and they're the only let me let me 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.439 say and again, if somebody that's listening to this that 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:37.880 knows plots is the stuff that they know, we're bare hounds. 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.400 But for somebody that doesn't have any context for that, um, 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.720 the plot hound is the only is the only hound 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:50.080 that isn't wasn't bred from like European fox hounds, Is 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:53.280 that correct? That's correct? And they were bred from German 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:58.199 big game dogs and yeah, basically and in the in 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:01.600 the unique thing about plots is that they were they 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:05.119 were known as bear dogs. So in the bear dog world, 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:10.359 there's all these different breeds of hounds from Walker, red bone, blue, Tick, 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:14.879 English black, and tan. There's there's all these different breeds, 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.719 which all those breeds were the sense of European fox hounds, 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:22.480 the plot was different. And and and all those breeds 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.800 make fine bear dogs in different strains for sure, and 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:28.879 people use them all over the country. But what's you 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:32.440 what's cool to me about the plots is they they 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:39.600 were known and developed their their identity as bear dogs. Sure, well, 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.919 I don't consider myself a plot historian at all. You know, 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:47.760 men like John Jackson and Bob Plot have written extensively 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.760 on that subject. That would be the go to people there. 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:54.480 But but you have the theory that the Plot brothers, 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.080 you know, came from Germany and they would have been 0:18:57.320 --> 0:18:59.960 basically pure down through the family lines until they start 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:03.000 the field. Now to others, and some men still you know, 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:06.720 view their particulars train as going back to the originals. 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:12.000 The second theory, you know, just basically fundamentally, with a 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:14.960 lot of twists and turns, would be that along the 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.400 way the plot had X dog added to it here, 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:22.199 X dog added to it there. Then that's where the 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:26.280 sort of the disagreements among the plot historians come in. 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:33.919 And uh if I I mean I was raised with 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:40.360 mountain people and in an isolated location. Um, it would 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:42.920 be hard for me to believe that at some point 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:47.679 a mountain family didn't add something here, something there, Yeah, 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:54.560 or even something accidental, And I wouldn't you know the 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:58.720 fact that was somebody that has the purest you know, theory. 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:05.879 But Mountain people are pragmatic people because uh honestly, because 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:09.800 of poverty, and they couldn't afford to keep a dog 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:15.840 that didn't carry its weight. Yeah, and they couldn't keep 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:18.399 You have to keep a lot of dogs. If if 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.720 you want a line of helms and you only want 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.240 your own name on the paperwork, nor was every dog 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:26.160 on that paperwork is yours and you're the only one. 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.119 Nobody else has any influence and your dogs all you 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:31.680 have to keep a lot of dogs, I mean a 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:36.320 lot of dogs. That's why, you know, this discussion came 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:42.720 up really this week through a Facebook post. Somebody had 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:45.239 asked the question, you know, where are the plots that 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:50.439 are strictly lyne bred with no outside influences, And the 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:54.720 best answer to that question came from Ray Brown. And 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:57.840 you know, Ray is a very well known, well respected 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.880 bar hunter and plot man, and and Ray said, it's 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:05.800 not that nobody is breeding line bred dogs, it's that 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:09.160 it's a family of dogs. A lot of people stick 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:13.000 with other words. It may have come from the same source, 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:14.800 but the name on it will be Brown, or the 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:17.840 name will be Weams, or the name will be Taunton, 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:21.119 or the name will be lowry and so on. But 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:23.359 if you go back far enough, it comes from the 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:25.800 same source. They all came from the same place. Yeah, 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:29.200 and there was very few originally registered plots that these 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:31.520 things come out flow out. Well, the plot breed wasn't 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:36.560 didn't become an official registered UKC breedingtel thin, That's right. 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:42.040 So it's relative relatively knew that that these dogs have 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:44.720 had papers kept. And I know there's historical records of 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:48.639 the plots keeping records of dogs and breeding and different stuff. 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:54.280 But yeah, but let me let me take the conversation 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:58.120 this way. I would like for you to describe and 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:03.119 envisioned somebody that didn't know bear dogs characteristics of a 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:06.720 bare dog because and I and I can or what 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:11.400 you're looking for in a dog. Because to me, my 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:15.040 history with hounds originally started with coon hunting when I 0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:17.639 was in high school, had dogs for several years and 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:21.320 really learned to love and appreciate the hound sports. We 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:25.560 never even dreamt of running bear with these hounds. We 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:31.120 just didn't. And and when I started understanding bare hounds, 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:34.880 I realized that this is really an elite animal that's 0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:37.600 being bred. And I believe I heard Steve Steve heard 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:40.280 said it in in an article in Bare Hunting Magazine 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:44.159 that he said, of all the all the animals that 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:48.600 man has put his fingerprint of influence on in breeding, 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:53.120 from cattle to horses to anything, he felt like that 0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:56.720 there was more things that had to line up right 0:22:57.000 --> 0:23:00.960 for a bare dog than just about anything. And there's 0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:04.880 it was an interesting statement because he talked about dog's 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:08.080 gotta have a super good nose. A dog's got to 0:23:08.119 --> 0:23:11.520 be a super athlete to be able to run and 0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:13.840 chase these beards. I mean we've been in these mountains, 0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:16.760 I mean steep as a cow's face, and these dogs 0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:20.000 put on twelve thirteen miles yesterday, I don't know, I 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:24.840 mean running straight up and down right, So they gotta 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:27.800 have they gotta have an incredible nose, which not every 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:31.399 hound has. The variants and the hounds nose is a 0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:35.119 broad spectrum. Some can smell this amount of scent and 0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:40.520 some can smell this, So you know, nose athleticism, uh tree, 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:43.800 and when you're when you're running big game, that trees. 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:46.480 And again this is for someone who doesn't know the 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:50.160 sport a dog. There there are running dogs that all 0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:52.239 they want to do is run game and when that 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:55.240 game goes up a tree, they'd be done. But a 0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:58.080 tree dog has got to have that instinct to run 0:23:58.119 --> 0:24:00.920 the game, and when it goes up a tree, he's 0:24:00.960 --> 0:24:04.080 got to have the instinct to sit there and bark, 0:24:05.080 --> 0:24:09.159 I mean until his master gets there, until that animal 0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:11.200 comes down out of the tree. And so that takes 0:24:11.200 --> 0:24:14.840 a really special animal that and that's bred in. I 0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:17.639 mean even to this day. Inside of good bear dog lines, 0:24:18.200 --> 0:24:21.240 there are dogs that aren't good tree dogs. Maybe they'll 0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:23.440 run a bear, but there, you know, we get to 0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:25.440 the tree, they're not that interested. So that's a dog 0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:28.920 that is not bread and and it's kind of left 0:24:28.960 --> 0:24:31.720 out of the breeding program probably in the future. But 0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:34.359 point being, there's a lot of things. What what do 0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:37.879 you guys after in these Tennessee mountains? What do you 0:24:38.000 --> 0:24:42.520 need a dog? What are the key characteristics? Well, before 0:24:42.520 --> 0:24:47.000 I start, you're asking for a matter of opinion, that's right. 0:24:47.240 --> 0:24:50.639 If you ask you know, a hundred bar hunters, you 0:24:51.200 --> 0:24:55.640 are going to get variations. But for us, I think 0:24:55.680 --> 0:24:59.040 you start at the finish line and then work backwards. 0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:03.560 In breeding. Instead of looking at as instill of looking 0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:06.280 at the dog and looking at his paperwork. If you're 0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:08.199 considering it for breeding, you need to look at the 0:25:08.240 --> 0:25:11.840 finish line. In other words, the most important thing about 0:25:11.840 --> 0:25:15.679 a big gamehound is does it produce big game? And 0:25:15.720 --> 0:25:24.800 all the other variables lead to that. But you don't 0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:28.200 want pieces to o'clock. You want to know what time 0:25:28.240 --> 0:25:31.520 it is. And you mean you want to be able 0:25:31.560 --> 0:25:34.920 to catch game, tree game. That's right if you If 0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:37.760 the dog is not a game catcher and it's not 0:25:37.880 --> 0:25:44.320 showing up on the the end, something's missing, something's not there. 0:25:45.520 --> 0:25:51.320 So producing game is the is it? You know the 0:25:51.320 --> 0:25:54.359