1
00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,640
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network powered by

2
00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,520
Speaker 1: Interstate Batteries from your truck to your trail camera. Interstate

3
00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,440
Speaker 1: Batteries as you covered. Visit your local Interstate Batteries store

4
00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:17,880
Speaker 1: today or online at Interstate Batteries dot com. Interstate Batteries

5
00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:27,280
Speaker 1: outrageously Dependable. My name is Clay Nucleman. I'm the host

6
00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,240
Speaker 1: of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your

7
00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,519
Speaker 1: host into the world of hunting the icon of the

8
00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:40,839
Speaker 1: North American wilderness. We'll talk about tactics, gear conservation who

9
00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,760
Speaker 1: also bring you into some of the wildest country on

10
00:00:43,960 --> 00:01:00,720
Speaker 1: the planet. Chasing battery. Hello, always walking down through here

11
00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,639
Speaker 1: in a bunch of dogs free ranging and we'll look

12
00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:05,600
Speaker 1: down and seeing the track what they took off. Well,

13
00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,760
Speaker 1: we didn't really want all of them to go, but

14
00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:19,080
Speaker 1: they're gone. Thanks for checking out the Bear Hunting Magazine Podcast.

15
00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,760
Speaker 1: I want to give a little bit of history, a

16
00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:26,639
Speaker 1: little bit of background about this podcast and why I

17
00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,440
Speaker 1: was where I was at and what had actually happened

18
00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,319
Speaker 1: even that day and the day before. I just got

19
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:38,880
Speaker 1: back from being in eastern Tennessee. Tracy and Ben Jones.

20
00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,520
Speaker 1: They are a father and son that have a long

21
00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:46,360
Speaker 1: family history of hunting with plots and the Appalachian Mountains

22
00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,520
Speaker 1: for bear. I'd contacted Ben several weeks ago and said, hey,

23
00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,800
Speaker 1: I'd like to film a hound hunt. He said, well,

24
00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:54,640
Speaker 1: come on, and I said, well, I've got two days,

25
00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,520
Speaker 1: and that's a short time to be on a successful hunt.

26
00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 1: But the day before I left was when they had

27
00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,280
Speaker 1: the massive snowstorm over in eastern Tennessee and western North Carolina.

28
00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,960
Speaker 1: We hunted for two days and it had some tremendous

29
00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,560
Speaker 1: bear races and I really got to see some fantastic

30
00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,000
Speaker 1: dog work. And we had a race that started at

31
00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,400
Speaker 1: ten o'clock in the morning on the first day I

32
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,600
Speaker 1: was there that lasted until nine o'clock at night. When

33
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,960
Speaker 1: Ben went in in the dark and pulled his dogs

34
00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,920
Speaker 1: off of a off of a bear that was basically

35
00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,960
Speaker 1: walking on the ground. I was war to the bone

36
00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,359
Speaker 1: in terms of physical strength. Ben as a mountain man.

37
00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,840
Speaker 1: He's twenty five years old, twenty four and he ge whiz.

38
00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,640
Speaker 1: He can walk like a gazelle in the mountains. And

39
00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,320
Speaker 1: I had a hard time, but an awesome time keeping

40
00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,480
Speaker 1: up with him for two days. One day we had

41
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,400
Speaker 1: that long race. The second day we started out pretty quick,

42
00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,240
Speaker 1: found a bear. Two and a half miles in on

43
00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,880
Speaker 1: foot leading dogs. We found a bear and the bear

44
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,720
Speaker 1: immediately jumped and ran into the bear sanctuary, and so

45
00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,560
Speaker 1: the race ended. We caught the dogs off the bear

46
00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:12,520
Speaker 1: and pretty much our hunt was over. Bear hunting with

47
00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,360
Speaker 1: hounds is something that many people don't understand, and if

48
00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,680
Speaker 1: you're listening to this podcast and you've never done it,

49
00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,720
Speaker 1: you probably don't get it. Bear Hunting Magazine our desire

50
00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:26,520
Speaker 1: is to show all aspects of bear hunting, and bear

51
00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,480
Speaker 1: hunting with hounds is the most traditional method to hunt

52
00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:34,800
Speaker 1: bear in North America. All these guys, Daniel Boone hunted

53
00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,680
Speaker 1: with hounds. A lot of historical hunters hunt with hounds.

54
00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,720
Speaker 1: North Carolina, the state dog is the plot hound. The

55
00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,920
Speaker 1: plothhound was developed and the Appalachian Mountains and its identity

56
00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,360
Speaker 1: was formed around bear hunting. It's a super small world.

57
00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:55,320
Speaker 1: It's a it's a small niche of people that are

58
00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,240
Speaker 1: committed to this really lifestyle. You can't just have a

59
00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,800
Speaker 1: bear hound, and you can't just have two bare hounds.

60
00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,200
Speaker 1: If you're gonna be a serious bear hunter, you've gotta

61
00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,920
Speaker 1: have a pack of hounds. It's a year round process.

62
00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,200
Speaker 1: It's expensive, and these guys devote a big section of

63
00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:15,560
Speaker 1: their life to training and raising bare hounds. And the

64
00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,200
Speaker 1: barehound is an exceptional animal that has to have a

65
00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,800
Speaker 1: unique set of characteristics. I mean, just really make it

66
00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,760
Speaker 1: an exceptional Got my, somebody that didn't know my look

67
00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,040
Speaker 1: out into the backyard of some bear hunter and see

68
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:32,000
Speaker 1: what their eyes perceive as a rough looking old hound.

69
00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,960
Speaker 1: But let me tell you, if you really knew what

70
00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,120
Speaker 1: that was, you'd look at that hound and you'd say,

71
00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,839
Speaker 1: my goodness, that is an exceptional animal that has been

72
00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:47,159
Speaker 1: bred for nose, for speed, for athleticism, for fearlessness. It's

73
00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:51,920
Speaker 1: been bred for for trainability and loyalty. It's been bred

74
00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,560
Speaker 1: to have good solid feet so it can run for

75
00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:59,280
Speaker 1: days and days. It's been bred for grit, the desire

76
00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,880
Speaker 1: to in in, the courage to stay on a bear

77
00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,120
Speaker 1: when a bear turns to fight. There's a lot of

78
00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,520
Speaker 1: things that have to happen. So the barehound world is

79
00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,560
Speaker 1: extremely complex and hard to understand. And here's the most

80
00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,800
Speaker 1: important thing. The bare hound world and bare hunting with

81
00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,960
Speaker 1: hounds is the lowest hanging fruit. And I want to

82
00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,679
Speaker 1: tell you why it's important to you. If you don't

83
00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,200
Speaker 1: even hunt with hounds, and don't care to hunt with hounds,

84
00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,560
Speaker 1: and maybe you don't even like hounds. But if you're

85
00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,520
Speaker 1: a hunter and you want to continue to see our

86
00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:33,200
Speaker 1: freedoms as hunters in the modern age continue, I will

87
00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,280
Speaker 1: tell you that bare hunting with hounds is the low

88
00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,800
Speaker 1: hanging fruit for the anti hunting community in this country,

89
00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,800
Speaker 1: in this world, and their desire is to pick it

90
00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:46,160
Speaker 1: off and to absolutely extinguish it. Why does that matter

91
00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,320
Speaker 1: to the guy that doesn't even like hound hunting is

92
00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,400
Speaker 1: because in the long game, and that's why we've all

93
00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,039
Speaker 1: got to turn our eyes towards is the long game.

94
00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,720
Speaker 1: If we truly are concerned about the freedoms that our

95
00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:03,360
Speaker 1: sons and daughters, grandchildren and great grandchildren will have long

96
00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:07,240
Speaker 1: after we are gone, should this earth persist? Is that

97
00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,479
Speaker 1: we got to play the long game. And in the

98
00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,480
Speaker 1: long game, if they pick off the low hanging fruit,

99
00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,240
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, the next rung up the

100
00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,200
Speaker 1: ladder is the low hanging fruit, and they'll be after

101
00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:22,520
Speaker 1: something next. And the anti hunting community has a strategy

102
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,920
Speaker 1: of incrementalism. They want to pick us off one section

103
00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,440
Speaker 1: at a time, and eventually there will be a generation

104
00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,080
Speaker 1: of people that wake up and will be like Europe

105
00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,520
Speaker 1: and where people can run around and hunt game birds

106
00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,360
Speaker 1: raised on a farm, and the very thing that has

107
00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:44,800
Speaker 1: given American hunters the identity that we have and the

108
00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,880
Speaker 1: freedoms that we have, and the very thing that has

109
00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,280
Speaker 1: made wildlife thrive in this country more than any other

110
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,919
Speaker 1: place on the planet. North American model for wildlife conservation

111
00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:00,200
Speaker 1: is the most successful model of wildlife conservation ever in

112
00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,840
Speaker 1: the history of man. We have more big game than

113
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,000
Speaker 1: any place on the planet and it's because of conservation

114
00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,400
Speaker 1: minded hunters. And bear hunting with hounds is a tool

115
00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:15,080
Speaker 1: used by bear managers to harvest bear in a regulated way.

116
00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,680
Speaker 1: And even if you don't like hound hunting, even if

117
00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,880
Speaker 1: you've been offended by hound hunters and states that you live,

118
00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,680
Speaker 1: I petition you to give them a chance and just

119
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:31,280
Speaker 1: out of principle, just out of principle, support hound hunting.

120
00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:36,600
Speaker 1: And I also implore the hound hunters to be respectful,

121
00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:41,520
Speaker 1: to to respect property boundaries, and to respect other hunters

122
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,680
Speaker 1: in the woods, and to you know, clean up their

123
00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:46,560
Speaker 1: game in a lot of ways. If we can all

124
00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,120
Speaker 1: stand in unification in these certain areas, it's gonna mean

125
00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,640
Speaker 1: a lot. So Hey, that's a quick commentary. Why this

126
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,600
Speaker 1: matters to someone who's not a hound hunt. I think

127
00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,680
Speaker 1: you're gonna enjoy this podcast. You're gonna learn at about

128
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,880
Speaker 1: bear hounds. You're gonna learn about the history of bear

129
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:09,640
Speaker 1: hunting the Appalachian Mountains, and I had a great conversation

130
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:20,000
Speaker 1: with Tracy Jones. Enjoy all right, Welcome to the Bear

131
00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:24,960
Speaker 1: Hunting Magazine Podcast. I am in Greenville, Tennessee. Not Greenville,

132
00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,240
Speaker 1: Tennessee proper, though we're outside of Greenville, Tennessee ten miles YEP,

133
00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:33,120
Speaker 1: about den miles south of Greenville, Okay. And I have

134
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,880
Speaker 1: been bear hunting with t L and Ben Jones for

135
00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,280
Speaker 1: the last two days. I kind of put him in

136
00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:44,320
Speaker 1: a bind. I talked to him about three weeks ago.

137
00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,400
Speaker 1: Talk to Ben, and I'm going to introduce who these

138
00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:49,400
Speaker 1: guys are. I've got t L with me here. But

139
00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,559
Speaker 1: about three weeks ago, I guess I had contacted you

140
00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:55,840
Speaker 1: guys and said I want to do a bear hunt

141
00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:02,880
Speaker 1: and the Appalachians and you guys were hospitable enough to

142
00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:04,920
Speaker 1: let me come up and hunt. But I only had

143
00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,880
Speaker 1: two days. And then the day before I got here,

144
00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:13,480
Speaker 1: we had this real bad snow um, which according to y'all,

145
00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,160
Speaker 1: could have been good, could have been bad, and uh,

146
00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:18,880
Speaker 1: but I came up here, and man, I've had an

147
00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,680
Speaker 1: awesome time. I really have, so thank you so much.

148
00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,679
Speaker 1: Who I've got here in front of me is Tracy Jones,

149
00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,080
Speaker 1: and so Tracy is uh, Tracy is a pastor here

150
00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,800
Speaker 1: and bear hunter. Tracy introduced yourself, my son and I

151
00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:39,160
Speaker 1: live in Green County, Tennessee. My my papa, A lot

152
00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,080
Speaker 1: of people knew him, Barry Taunting, He's well known with

153
00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,000
Speaker 1: plot people. And then my dad, Terry Jones, was the

154
00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,120
Speaker 1: bar hunter plots. And I have several other family members

155
00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,240
Speaker 1: that were really good bar hunters and plot men, my

156
00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:58,040
Speaker 1: cousin Charles Lowry and my cousin Rocky Lowry. And it's

157
00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,440
Speaker 1: just always been a you know, a family thing and

158
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:05,040
Speaker 1: a lot of friends around us too. Yeah m hm. So,

159
00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,800
Speaker 1: so you guys have been hunting plots since the nineteen fifties.

160
00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:16,040
Speaker 1: When when Barry, Barry, Charles and your grandfather started getting plots. Yeah,

161
00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,760
Speaker 1: we don't know the exact date that he got his

162
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,959
Speaker 1: first plot. Um, my cousin Charles got a puppy from

163
00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,480
Speaker 1: him in nineteen sixty five. So we know it pre

164
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:30,480
Speaker 1: dates nineteen sixty. Uh, Papa went on a bear hunt

165
00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,840
Speaker 1: with Vaughn Plot, and if I remember correctly, it was

166
00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:42,160
Speaker 1: down in Gatlinburg before Gatlinburg was really commercialized. And sometime

167
00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,920
Speaker 1: dearing that hunt, von Plot just convinced my my grandfather,

168
00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,280
Speaker 1: who was hunting different things, he Kuna had mostly and

169
00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,480
Speaker 1: had started treading some bar at night, I wanted to

170
00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,240
Speaker 1: bear hunt, and uh, Vaughn talked to him in to

171
00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,959
Speaker 1: giving Plots a tribe, but then he wouldn't sell him

172
00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:02,600
Speaker 1: a dog. And so my path Bass started looking around

173
00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:07,240
Speaker 1: trying to find a plot. And I'm not exactly sure

174
00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,920
Speaker 1: where he got his first one at I don't think

175
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:15,839
Speaker 1: he really remembered where the first one came from. Um

176
00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,800
Speaker 1: early on he did get a plot out of Kentucky

177
00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,719
Speaker 1: from a man named Benny Moore, but I don't think

178
00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:26,679
Speaker 1: that was the first one, but that was an earlier one. Yeah.

179
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:32,040
Speaker 1: And so the strain of dogs that came from Barry

180
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:38,520
Speaker 1: and Charles Lowry was is this Houston Valley line? Yeah. Uh,

181
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,360
Speaker 1: Like I said, we know that he had litteral pups

182
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,479
Speaker 1: in sixty I don't know what those dogs were exactly

183
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,440
Speaker 1: where the Houston Valley line really got its start was

184
00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,800
Speaker 1: in the early seventies. Papal got a female pup from

185
00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:01,360
Speaker 1: Gene White who had White Holla loots and they were

186
00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,559
Speaker 1: very close friends. And if you look at the paperwork,

187
00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,480
Speaker 1: Jeane basically was just getting starred in plots too. And

188
00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,079
Speaker 1: jean had got the white Holla junior dog and it

189
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:15,880
Speaker 1: was out of some Kermit Alison dogs and uh, I

190
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:20,959
Speaker 1: think some Williams bred dogs. And White Halla Jr. Was

191
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,240
Speaker 1: a dog my my papa really thought a lot of

192
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,200
Speaker 1: He hunted with him several times up in Canada and

193
00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:31,720
Speaker 1: this female pup my papa got he her name was Jack.

194
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:38,079
Speaker 1: She got hurt and was physically unable to keep bear hunting,

195
00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,959
Speaker 1: so he went back to Jean and they did a

196
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:46,400
Speaker 1: pup swap and Jeanne kept the Jap dog and my

197
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:51,280
Speaker 1: papa got a dog that is caught her on her papers.

198
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,199
Speaker 1: Her name was Roberta. They called her Polly around the house,

199
00:12:55,400 --> 00:13:01,320
Speaker 1: but Roberta became the foundation of Houston Valley plots. Yeah. Yeah,

200
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,199
Speaker 1: I think that's a good place to even jump in

201
00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,520
Speaker 1: and describe some of the kind of a strain of hounds.

202
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,440
Speaker 1: I think some people that listen to this may not

203
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,680
Speaker 1: be real familiar with hounds and even hound hunting over here,

204
00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:19,000
Speaker 1: and so what what seems to have happened, And Terry

205
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:23,160
Speaker 1: tell me if this is Terry Tracy, tell me if

206
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,640
Speaker 1: if this is accurate, is that in these mountains, there

207
00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:31,560
Speaker 1: would be guys that started bear hunting, they started getting

208
00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,400
Speaker 1: good dogs, and they they bred good dogs to good dogs,

209
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:41,200
Speaker 1: and they typically these mountain people wanted to keep they

210
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,320
Speaker 1: wanted to keep dogs in the hands of family and

211
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:48,560
Speaker 1: the fans, in the hands of loyal friends, and and

212
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,720
Speaker 1: keeping pretty tighten it for many reasons, one of which

213
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,440
Speaker 1: would be that if you sold dogs or sent dogs

214
00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,079
Speaker 1: way off, if it was the if it was the

215
00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,440
Speaker 1: best dog in the world world, you wouldn't really be

216
00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,280
Speaker 1: able to have that much access to to breed back

217
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,439
Speaker 1: into it. But these guys wanted to they wanted to

218
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,920
Speaker 1: keep their good dogs pretty tight. And and there's these

219
00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,520
Speaker 1: so in the in in the different breeds, and especially

220
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:18,640
Speaker 1: the plot breed, there's these pretty tight strains of plots.

221
00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,240
Speaker 1: So they're all registered plothounds. I mean, so there's in

222
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,920
Speaker 1: it's it's a breed just like a American border collie,

223
00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,640
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, plothound, but inside of the plothound.

224
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:34,000
Speaker 1: It's almost like there's these real tight strains and Houston

225
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,760
Speaker 1: Valley is one of them, and there's all these others too.

226
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,480
Speaker 1: But to me, that's really neat because just the the

227
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,480
Speaker 1: culture and the in the long standing history of breeding.

228
00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you could look back at papers on your

229
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,760
Speaker 1: dogs and you hunted with a lot of those dogs,

230
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,400
Speaker 1: and then before you were born, probably there was a

231
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,160
Speaker 1: lot of dogs, but you would know the history of

232
00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,760
Speaker 1: those dogs. You would know the characteristics of those dogs.

233
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,920
Speaker 1: And so what you've got sixty years into this tight

234
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,640
Speaker 1: blind bread in some cases strain of dogs is is

235
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 1: something that's really predictable from a breeding standpoint, and that

236
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,960
Speaker 1: it's gonna be I mean, you you breed dogs, you

237
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,760
Speaker 1: I mean, they're not all gonna be perfect, but you

238
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:26,520
Speaker 1: know what you're getting right um our pubs right now

239
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,440
Speaker 1: depending on what females bread to what male go back

240
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:38,240
Speaker 1: about I think twelve generations to Roberta, and uh, almost

241
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:43,240
Speaker 1: every dog that we've bred that we have now goes

242
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:49,080
Speaker 1: back to Roberta. And so you know, that's our foundation

243
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:53,840
Speaker 1: that we work from. And the Jap dog actually became

244
00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,280
Speaker 1: foundational for Jeans dogs and I think she was also

245
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,520
Speaker 1: really foundational for uh, some of the Polly dogs out

246
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:06,200
Speaker 1: of Michigan to the Jap Dog was and some other folks.

247
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:10,640
Speaker 1: And then later on Steve Fielder ended up with a

248
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,720
Speaker 1: pup out of the Roberta Dog and Big Timber. A

249
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,120
Speaker 1: lot of people are familiar with Cascade Big Timber and

250
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,640
Speaker 1: the Bronco Dog was really important in his breeding program.

251
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,360
Speaker 1: So the Roberta Dog has a lot of influence in

252
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,680
Speaker 1: the plot breed that I guess some folks wouldn't pay

253
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,480
Speaker 1: attention to. You know, my grandfather, my Patha, was never

254
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:36,080
Speaker 1: into advertising and um, but in reference to the family

255
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:40,400
Speaker 1: type thing, I want delve into plot history because even

256
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:45,440
Speaker 1: among hardcore plot people that's so controversial that I just

257
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,960
Speaker 1: don't want in the middle that. Uh. There's basically two

258
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:53,200
Speaker 1: theories when you bullet all down to the bottom line.

259
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:57,000
Speaker 1: One is pretty much the Plot brothers came over from

260
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,720
Speaker 1: Germany and they were never outcrossed on anything whatsoever and

261
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,920
Speaker 1: bred down with the family. Uh. The other theory, and

262
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,119
Speaker 1: what you're talking about is the origins of the plot breed,

263
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:12,679
Speaker 1: which which which which would have come from Germany pretty

264
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,159
Speaker 1: much eventually into North Carolina and then specifically the western

265
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,040
Speaker 1: North Carolina in the plot Bostom and then would have

266
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,280
Speaker 1: been filter as a place it's a place of valley. Yeah,

267
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,360
Speaker 1: and then the plots would have been filtered out from

268
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,600
Speaker 1: plot Bosom, you know, pretty much around the clube now

269
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,159
Speaker 1: and uh, and they're the only let me let me

270
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,439
Speaker 1: say and again, if somebody that's listening to this that

271
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,880
Speaker 1: knows plots is the stuff that they know, we're bare hounds.

272
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,400
Speaker 1: But for somebody that doesn't have any context for that, um,

273
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,720
Speaker 1: the plot hound is the only is the only hound

274
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:50,080
Speaker 1: that isn't wasn't bred from like European fox hounds, Is

275
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,280
Speaker 1: that correct? That's correct? And they were bred from German

276
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:58,199
Speaker 1: big game dogs and yeah, basically and in the in

277
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,600
Speaker 1: the unique thing about plots is that they were they

278
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,119
Speaker 1: were known as bear dogs. So in the bear dog world,

279
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:10,359
Speaker 1: there's all these different breeds of hounds from Walker, red bone, blue, Tick,

280
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,879
Speaker 1: English black, and tan. There's there's all these different breeds,

281
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,719
Speaker 1: which all those breeds were the sense of European fox hounds,

282
00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:22,480
Speaker 1: the plot was different. And and and all those breeds

283
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,800
Speaker 1: make fine bear dogs in different strains for sure, and

284
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,879
Speaker 1: people use them all over the country. But what's you

285
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,440
Speaker 1: what's cool to me about the plots is they they

286
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:39,600
Speaker 1: were known and developed their their identity as bear dogs. Sure, well,

287
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,919
Speaker 1: I don't consider myself a plot historian at all. You know,

288
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,760
Speaker 1: men like John Jackson and Bob Plot have written extensively

289
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,760
Speaker 1: on that subject. That would be the go to people there.

290
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,480
Speaker 1: But but you have the theory that the Plot brothers,

291
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,080
Speaker 1: you know, came from Germany and they would have been

292
00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 1: basically pure down through the family lines until they start

293
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 1: the field. Now to others, and some men still you know,

294
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,720
Speaker 1: view their particulars train as going back to the originals.

295
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:12,000
Speaker 1: The second theory, you know, just basically fundamentally, with a

296
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,960
Speaker 1: lot of twists and turns, would be that along the

297
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,400
Speaker 1: way the plot had X dog added to it here,

298
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,199
Speaker 1: X dog added to it there. Then that's where the

299
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,280
Speaker 1: sort of the disagreements among the plot historians come in.

300
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:33,919
Speaker 1: And uh if I I mean I was raised with

301
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:40,360
Speaker 1: mountain people and in an isolated location. Um, it would

302
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,920
Speaker 1: be hard for me to believe that at some point

303
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:47,679
Speaker 1: a mountain family didn't add something here, something there, Yeah,

304
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 1: or even something accidental, And I wouldn't you know the

305
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,720
Speaker 1: fact that was somebody that has the purest you know, theory.

306
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:05,879
Speaker 1: But Mountain people are pragmatic people because uh honestly, because

307
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 1: of poverty, and they couldn't afford to keep a dog

308
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:15,840
Speaker 1: that didn't carry its weight. Yeah, and they couldn't keep

309
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,399
Speaker 1: You have to keep a lot of dogs. If if

310
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 1: you want a line of helms and you only want

311
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 1: your own name on the paperwork, nor was every dog

312
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,160
Speaker 1: on that paperwork is yours and you're the only one.

313
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,119
Speaker 1: Nobody else has any influence and your dogs all you

314
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,680
Speaker 1: have to keep a lot of dogs, I mean a

315
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 1: lot of dogs. That's why, you know, this discussion came

316
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:42,720
Speaker 1: up really this week through a Facebook post. Somebody had

317
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,239
Speaker 1: asked the question, you know, where are the plots that

318
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:50,439
Speaker 1: are strictly lyne bred with no outside influences, And the

319
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,720
Speaker 1: best answer to that question came from Ray Brown. And

320
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 1: you know, Ray is a very well known, well respected

321
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,880
Speaker 1: bar hunter and plot man, and and Ray said, it's

322
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,800
Speaker 1: not that nobody is breeding line bred dogs, it's that

323
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,160
Speaker 1: it's a family of dogs. A lot of people stick

324
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,000
Speaker 1: with other words. It may have come from the same source,

325
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 1: but the name on it will be Brown, or the

326
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 1: name will be Weams, or the name will be Taunton,

327
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 1: or the name will be lowry and so on. But

328
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,359
Speaker 1: if you go back far enough, it comes from the

329
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 1: same source. They all came from the same place. Yeah,

330
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,200
Speaker 1: and there was very few originally registered plots that these

331
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 1: things come out flow out. Well, the plot breed wasn't

332
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 1: didn't become an official registered UKC breedingtel thin, That's right.

333
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 1: So it's relative relatively knew that that these dogs have

334
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 1: had papers kept. And I know there's historical records of

335
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,639
Speaker 1: the plots keeping records of dogs and breeding and different stuff.

336
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 1: But yeah, but let me let me take the conversation

337
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:58,120
Speaker 1: this way. I would like for you to describe and

338
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:03,119
Speaker 1: envisioned somebody that didn't know bear dogs characteristics of a

339
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 1: bare dog because and I and I can or what

340
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:11,400
Speaker 1: you're looking for in a dog. Because to me, my

341
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 1: history with hounds originally started with coon hunting when I

342
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,639
Speaker 1: was in high school, had dogs for several years and

343
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 1: really learned to love and appreciate the hound sports. We

344
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 1: never even dreamt of running bear with these hounds. We

345
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:31,120
Speaker 1: just didn't. And and when I started understanding bare hounds,

346
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 1: I realized that this is really an elite animal that's

347
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 1: being bred. And I believe I heard Steve Steve heard

348
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 1: said it in in an article in Bare Hunting Magazine

349
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,159
Speaker 1: that he said, of all the all the animals that

350
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 1: man has put his fingerprint of influence on in breeding,

351
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:53,120
Speaker 1: from cattle to horses to anything, he felt like that

352
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: there was more things that had to line up right

353
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 1: for a bare dog than just about anything. And there's

354
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,880
Speaker 1: it was an interesting statement because he talked about dog's

355
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: gotta have a super good nose. A dog's got to

356
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 1: be a super athlete to be able to run and

357
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 1: chase these beards. I mean we've been in these mountains,

358
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: I mean steep as a cow's face, and these dogs

359
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 1: put on twelve thirteen miles yesterday, I don't know, I

360
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: mean running straight up and down right, So they gotta

361
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 1: have they gotta have an incredible nose, which not every

362
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 1: hound has. The variants and the hounds nose is a

363
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 1: broad spectrum. Some can smell this amount of scent and

364
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: some can smell this, So you know, nose athleticism, uh tree,

365
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: and when you're when you're running big game, that trees.

366
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: And again this is for someone who doesn't know the

367
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 1: sport a dog. There there are running dogs that all

368
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,239
Speaker 1: they want to do is run game and when that

369
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: game goes up a tree, they'd be done. But a

370
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: tree dog has got to have that instinct to run

371
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 1: the game, and when it goes up a tree, he's

372
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: got to have the instinct to sit there and bark,

373
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 1: I mean until his master gets there, until that animal

374
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: comes down out of the tree. And so that takes

375
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: a really special animal that and that's bred in. I

376
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 1: mean even to this day. Inside of good bear dog lines,

377
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: there are dogs that aren't good tree dogs. Maybe they'll

378
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: run a bear, but there, you know, we get to

379
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 1: the tree, they're not that interested. So that's a dog

380
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 1: that is not bread and and it's kind of left

381
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 1: out of the breeding program probably in the future. But

382
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: point being, there's a lot of things. What what do

383
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 1: you guys after in these Tennessee mountains? What do you

384
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: need a dog? What are the key characteristics? Well, before

385
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: I start, you're asking for a matter of opinion, that's right.

386
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 1: If you ask you know, a hundred bar hunters, you

387
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 1: are going to get variations. But for us, I think

388
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: you start at the finish line and then work backwards.

389
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: In breeding. Instead of looking at as instill of looking

390
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: at the dog and looking at his paperwork. If you're

391
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 1: considering it for breeding, you need to look at the

392
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: finish line. In other words, the most important thing about

393
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 1: a big gamehound is does it produce big game? And

394
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: all the other variables lead to that. But you don't

395
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: want pieces to o'clock. You want to know what time

396
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: it is. And you mean you want to be able

397
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 1: to catch game, tree game. That's right if you If

398
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: the dog is not a game catcher and it's not

399
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: showing up on the the end, something's missing, something's not there.

400
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: So producing game is the is it? You know the

401
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: coon hunters like they have a big argument going on

402
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: now about dogs at slick three a lot. Well, if

403
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: you're playing a points game, some of that can be overlooked,

404
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: I guess. But if you're walking five or six hours

405
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: in the mountains to a dog that has nothing, that's

406
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: a big pointless Yeah, there's no there's no points up there,

407
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,959
Speaker 1: there's no scorecard. Does that make sense to absolutely? So

408
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: producing is the number one. And what you're describing to

409
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: is it is a dog that just has a natural ability.

410
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,360
Speaker 1: I mean, inside of you turn out ten bear dogs,

411
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: there's gonna be percentage of those dogs that just time

412
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: after time after time and when you say get to

413
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 1: the finish line, what you mean is at the bottom

414
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: of a bear tree, or have a bear bade up

415
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: or whatever it takes. I mean, or even cross into

416
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,479
Speaker 1: the sanctuary like today with it. I mean, that's not

417
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: that dog's fault, that there's an imaginary line there right right, yeah, yeah,

418
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: what what what he's talking about is today we had

419
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: a really good bear race. We jumped a bear a

420
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: good spot and uh the bear head and crossed the

421
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 1: across the road and went into an area that we

422
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 1: couldn't hunt, and so they caught the dogs off the track.

423
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: But if it if we'd have been able to run

424
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: that bear, we probably would have got him. But we

425
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: had to pull him off. But right, yeah, yeah, But

426
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: the traits that lead to the finish line, in my

427
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: personal opinion, my viewpoint right it if not at the

428
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: top of the list, right at the top of the

429
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: list is drive desire mhm, because a dog could A

430
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 1: house dog is extremely intelligent. Some of them are bird dogs.

431
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: Some of those. One of the smartest dogs I ever

432
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: worked with was an English pointer. But neither the house

433
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: dog or the English pointer will run a bear. That's right.

434
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 1: But there so there has to be that innate desire

435
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: that when it gets that cent of bear for whatever reason,

436
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 1: and that in a code, it runs it m hm

437
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: and it don't want to stop until it's over trade, bade,

438
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 1: caught off, or whatever. So some people call it desire,

439
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: some people call it drive, some people call it heart.

440
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter how smart a dog is if it

441
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: has no drive. It doesn't matter how good of a

442
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: nose it has, if it doesn't have any drive. To me, drive,

443
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 1: our heart is the engine that everything else is built around.

444
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: And uh, I can think of one dog that I

445
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: had that wasn't the grittiest dog. He wasn't the fastest dog. Um,

446
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: he didn't have a super cold nose, but anything I

447
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: turned him on, whatever it was, he just had no quit.

448
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: And so he made up for a lot of not

449
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: what I would call faults because he was sufficient. He

450
00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: just wasn't wasn't exceptional, but except from one area, and

451
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: that was a drive. And he was one of the

452
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: favorite dogs I ever had. He wasn't flashy, nobody knows

453
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: his name, but if you turned him on something, he

454
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: meant to catch it. Yeah, And I think I think

455
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 1: that that statement can be qualified to by saying or describing.

456
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: I think people that have never beare hunted with the

457
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: hounds don't realize how intensive a intense it is to

458
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: treat or catch a bear. I mean, like you turned

459
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: ten dogs loose on a red hot bear track and

460
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: that bear runs for twelve miles. In these mountains, there's

461
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: gonna be some dogs that drop out of the race.

462
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: There's gonna be some dogs that end up back in

463
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: the truck. There's gonna be some dogs that end up

464
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: sleeping on the side of the mountain because they just

465
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: laid down. I mean, it's it's it happens, um and

466
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: that happens to good dogs too, don't I'm not saying

467
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: that there's a lot of bearables to that many many men.

468
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: And by the point being there, there's there's certainly some

469
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: dogs that don't have the drive that others do. That's

470
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: a fact. Yeah, And so that's what you're that's what

471
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: you're looking for. To me, that's the number one quality,

472
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: and without it you have you have no framework to

473
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: build around. Yeah, that's probably a good quality of humans too,

474
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: and it is make up but for a lot of stuff.

475
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: If you've got a little bit of drive and well,

476
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: I grew up in the time frame when boxing was

477
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: something that that men watched a lot. It wasn't on

478
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: pay per view, it was a national sport. Everybody the

479
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: names of boxers were household names. You know, everybody knew

480
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: the people who were going to fight, and it was

481
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: on regular TV and people would gather up in their

482
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: living rooms and watch a match. And but I bring

483
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: that up to say, it's just it's impossible to whip

484
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: somebody who won't quit m hm, m hm, and a

485
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: dog that just will not quit, yeah, is pretty hard

486
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: to beat. Yeah, yeah, what would what would be? Okay,

487
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: so if we were going back from the finish line backwards,

488
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: that desire would be a number one trait. What would

489
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: what would be some of the other traits that you

490
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: look for in a house. Well, if a dog is

491
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: exceptionally intelligent, I think that's where some of your better

492
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: trail dogs come from. You know, a dog can be

493
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: an asset as a bear dog and not be your

494
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: main trail dog. Tell us what a trail dog is. Well,

495
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: when somebody gets ready to start a bear race, normally

496
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: they'll have a particular dog or dogs that they count

497
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: on to start the track and trail it up when

498
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: the conditions are not real good and get it jumped

499
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: as the other dogs come along behind with the idea.

500
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: The trail dog gets the bear up and running as

501
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: the other dogs catch them from behind. M And you know,

502
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: different people in different areas hunt different ways. But traditionally

503
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: through the mountains here men would have a dog or

504
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: dog that were was their primary trail dog, and then

505
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: the other dogs would be take some place in their pack,

506
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: you know, some bay or somewhere. It's not that the

507
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: other dogs couldn't run a track, but they're just something

508
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: that separates a real top nots traal dog apart. And

509
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: I think intelligence plays a role in that. Uh if

510
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: a dog's you know, if he has a mind to

511
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: figure things out, Like you'll see dogs sometimes even running

512
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 1: a bear that's already jumped, and they'll get in some

513
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: rocks and for whatever reason, one dog will go right

514
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: on through the rocks just litly split and another two

515
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: or three dogs get hung up at the same place

516
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: the other one went through and can't figure out how

517
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: to go across. Right, there's a reason that one dog

518
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: goes through he has the mental capacity to figure out

519
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: how to how to make it or he at one time,

520
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: maybe pretty prior in his life. He figured it out

521
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: once and so he had the intelligence to figure it

522
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: out again. Yeah, and maybe he just stumbled on it

523
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: the first time, you know. Yep. So intelligence, I think

524
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: is a factor there. And then uh, of course the

525
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: obvious things like endurance and stamina and how long they

526
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: can can go. That right there. To me as somebody

527
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: who wasn't hadn't had a ton of history with the

528
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,479
Speaker 1: bare hounds until the last five years, that's what blows

529
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: my is the athleticism and endurance that these dogs have

530
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: to have. Have so much respect for bears, and and

531
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: I think bear hunters guys are bearing with hounds have

532
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 1: a whole different kind of respect in terms of these

533
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: bears can run and run and run and run straight

534
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: up and down mountains. I mean these mountains we were

535
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: in today and yesterday just unbelievable. So it takes a

536
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 1: heck of an animal to overcome that. There there's a

537
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: misperception among non hunters and and a misperception among hunt

538
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: some hunters that using hounds isn't fire chase, and uh,

539
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 1: nothing can be further from the truth. You know, a

540
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: bear is fully aware that he's being chased, whereas other methods,

541
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 1: which I'm not opposed to, legal methods do it. Yeah,

542
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 1: but other methods that bear may not even be aware

543
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: you're anywhere in the world and then he's dead. Yeah.

544
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: With the hounds, he has everything at his disposal. You're

545
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 1: on his turf, you're on his home ground. He lives

546
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: there twenty fires a day, seven days a week. He

547
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: knows where everything's at. They have According to some research

548
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: I've read, they really have a mapping capacity to remember

549
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: where they've been and how things lay. They just have

550
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 1: all the advantages. And a dog with endurance, you know,

551
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: gives you an advantage. I mean, like you said, they're

552
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: incredible athletes, and so that endurance would play out in

553
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: actual practical terms with having dogs that had really good

554
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 1: feet like a dog. People probably wouldn't someone who wasn't

555
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: a dog person might not understand that. But these dogs

556
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: run so far, running in rough terrain, rocky terrain, snowy terrain,

557
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,760
Speaker 1: they've got to have genetically predisposed feet that are tight,

558
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 1: that their pads are thick, that they're you know, one

559
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: of the guys we're hunting with today, Pat was showing

560
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: me one of his dog's feet, and that dog had

561
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 1: hair that kind of grew over the edge of the pads.

562
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: In his mind, that was a good trait that made

563
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,439
Speaker 1: it had tough feet. You know, um not all dogs

564
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: are gonna be that way, but I gotta have tough feet,

565
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: gotta have for this endurance. Trim dogs. I mean, these

566
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: aren't big hounds. A lot of people would think bare hound,

567
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: big hound. I mean, what would be the bandwidth of

568
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: wait for your for Houston Valley plots. Well, for for

569
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: our dogs, I prefer a male dog that doesn't go

570
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: over you know, fifty or fifty five pounds, and a

571
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 1: female I prefer not to go over forty five or

572
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: fifty pounds. And uh but then again, you know, a

573
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,439
Speaker 1: dog being a little larger than that, are a little

574
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:59,280
Speaker 1: smaller than that, He is not always a determining factor

575
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 1: of it's endurance, true or it's drive. And sometimes a

576
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: bigger dog that you wouldn't think could carry himself can

577
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: run all day and um so, but that size, that

578
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: size is usually pretty good for a dog being able

579
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: to run day after day after day and not break down.

580
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: But typically a bigger, bigger hound is gonna break down

581
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: a little faster and by that. I mean, these guys

582
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 1: are hunting. I mean I think Ben said he's hunted

583
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 1: every day since Thanksgiving and it's nowhere December today. Well,

584
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: you know, the more the more weight a dog carries,

585
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 1: and the bigger he gets, there's so many factors at

586
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: some at some point there's a there's a breaking point

587
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: there where that's just too big. He may keep up

588
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,720
Speaker 1: for an hour, or he might keep up for two hours.

589
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 1: But that great, big, you know, pound dog, generally speaking

590
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: in the mountains is not being all day dog. Now,

591
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: somebody listening somewhere it's gonna say, oh, yes, I have

592
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: Rufus and he waited a hundred fifty pounds and can

593
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: run for four days straight. And that's fine. But Rufus

594
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: is an outliers to the rule. Yeah. Yeah, I've found

595
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 1: that amongst the barehound guys that I've run into is

596
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 1: that they typically like the smaller dogs. And even in

597
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 1: in long legs doesn't equate two speed because on a

598
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 1: track it's not when you Well, that brings us into

599
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: another characteristic tracy that I think is I know you're

600
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 1: gonna list, is that you're looking for a dog that's

601
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: got speed. Um, yeah, just to talk about that. Well,

602
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: what I was gonna say was that speed doesn't come

603
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: from having long legs or short legs. Speed comes from

604
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:58,959
Speaker 1: being able to navigate scent and move through that scent,

605
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: track it with head up. You know. Well, the discussion

606
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: we're having right now about traits you like seems to

607
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: be Uh, I don't. I'm not sure you would call

608
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: it a cyclical thing, but there seems to be different

609
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: factors during different time periods that everybody's after. I can

610
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: remember years ago that everybody wanted something more gritty and

611
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 1: they started trying to breed. I've seen them even trying

612
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 1: to breathe pit bull into the end of the hounds,

613
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: and that was a huge train wreck because the dogs

614
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: will get to the tree, and that that desire to

615
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: catch something didn't stop at the tree and need to

616
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 1: catch other dogs. That was a terrible train wreck here locally. Um, then,

617
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: uh knows is something that seems to be something that

618
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 1: points in time. Everybody's trying to find more knows, more

619
00:39:54,480 --> 00:40:00,320
Speaker 1: tracking ability, more trailing ability. Yeah, and then recently there's

620
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: been a lot of talk, well at least among people

621
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: that I'm familiar with, about speed. I want to be

622
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: faster and fast is good. But when you and Ben

623
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 1: I've discussed this, when you look at a hound's physical makeup,

624
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: it's only going to be able to go so fast

625
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 1: because of the way it's built. If you put that

626
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: in horse terms, there's a reason that the records in

627
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 1: the Kentucky Derby and some of the other horse races

628
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: are seldom broken because no matter how much money a

629
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: billionaire has, and no matter how much access he has

630
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: to the best trainers, and no matter how much access

631
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: he has to everything he could possibly need to be

632
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: breed a faster horse, it genetically cannot be done. It

633
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: tops out. And a hound is the same way. They

634
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: can only get so fast, right in terms of just

635
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: like foot speed in a race. Yeah yeah, yeah, So

636
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 1: if you have it hounds that are fast enough to

637
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: produce to me, they're fast enough, yeah yeah, fast enough

638
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: to catch game. If you're catching what you want to catch,

639
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: you have enough speed. Yeah, And I think too that

640
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: may you know what I've seen in different places is

641
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: that that you know? I've heard somebody say speed kills

642
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: talking about just an animal being able to track fast

643
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: enough that they just just gain on a bear. I

644
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:40,919
Speaker 1: mean a bear's a bear is laying in his bed.

645
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: He hears a hound, you know, five yards away open

646
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: and he goes, man, what if the hounds coming after me?

647
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: It doesn't actually think that, but you know, and and

648
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: the hound's getting closer, getting closer. Finally that hound comes

649
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 1: within range of threatening that bear. The bear takes off running. Well,

650
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: the ability of that hound to pick up that scent

651
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: and overcome that bear. And again it's not foot speed,

652
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: but it's it's ability for that hound to navigate the scent,

653
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 1: navigate the terrain, you know. Um well, I mean, the

654
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,479
Speaker 1: bottom line is that dog has got to be fast

655
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: enough to run the bear down and either stop it

656
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: or make it so uncomfortable. What goes up a tree? Yeah, yeah,

657
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: So the doll has to be faster than the bear.

658
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 1: He's gotta be yep, yep, gotta be well. And And

659
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 1: like you said today, like you said a little bit ago,

660
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: this hound, honey, is not a given. I've been here

661
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: two days and we've yet to We've yet to see

662
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,399
Speaker 1: a bear in a tree. We've been we've been met

663
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: with tough conditions. But before I got here, you guys

664
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: were tree and bears. And I'm sure as soon as

665
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: I leave this afternoon. You are gonna tree bears tomorrow.

666
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:54,879
Speaker 1: But it's it's tough. I mean, we ran a bear

667
00:42:55,040 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: yesterday for for miles. Uh the ready yesterday what you

668
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: turn loose at nine o'clock or so, I'm not sure.

669
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,839
Speaker 1: And the last dogs were pulled off of it well

670
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: after dark. Yeah, yep. So they're tough, super tough, and

671
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 1: it's a it really is a fair chase hunt. I

672
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,399
Speaker 1: mean when you when you look at it that way,

673
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: But I don't get exciting. I mean, you've been here

674
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: two days. We're run you know. We've had one race

675
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: that lasted all day, we didn't kill it. Another one

676
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: today that we run got off into the sanctuary, which

677
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: is you know, a the imaginary line between where you're

678
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: allowed to kill and where you're not. But I don't

679
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: get excited about that because I mean, we've we've did

680
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: this so long. I mean, the bottom line is sometimes

681
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: the bad wine and if they didn't, what would be

682
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: the point? Yep? Yeah, yeah, yeah, they do win sometimes.

683
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: They do win sometimes, and I think that's part of

684
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: the fun of it. And uh, you said, well, if

685
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: you had better dogs, you would have won. Well, you know,

686
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 1: I'm no expert, but I've seen a few baron dogs

687
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: and uh, maybe somebody had a dog somewhere that if

688
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: we'd have had it here yesterday, we would have it

689
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: would have made a difference. But yeah, I don't think. So,

690
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think if it's out there.

691
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: I you know, there's some people with some great dogs.

692
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,919
Speaker 1: But you know, if dogs run one all day long,

693
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 1: just how much more can you ask? Right? You know?

694
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 1: I said in a unique position at Bear Hunting magazine,

695
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: and I've made some I have been for somebody that's

696
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: not been in a bear hunding world very long. I've

697
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to hunt with some of the some

698
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:47,760
Speaker 1: of some some great bearhoundsmen all over the country. Um,

699
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 1: and I can tell you they all get beat sure

700
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: they do. I mean you you see obviously you're not

701
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: gonna post a picture on Facebook of a you know,

702
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:00,919
Speaker 1: back of your truck empty and s you know there's

703
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 1: no bearer. I mean you you hear the good stories.

704
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,399
Speaker 1: You hear are the times when the dogs get did

705
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: great and uh and if you're closer to these people,

706
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: obviously you're here the good and the bad. Well, you

707
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: and I are friends on Facebook, and I enjoy social

708
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: media because I like to see one of the people

709
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: doing hunting and other things. Sometimes I do purposely put

710
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: on social media bears one US zero or the bear

711
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 1: one today. I do do that because I you know,

712
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: I laugh about it. I don't if I if if

713
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,720
Speaker 1: the dogs were junk and we can never catch anything,

714
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be laughing. But I just know we got beat.

715
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: And if you get beat by a great opponent, there's

716
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 1: there's no defeating that. So I enjoy that. I enjoy

717
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 1: the aspect that that it's not a give me and uh,

718
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: it's a good day to me. If you're out there

719
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: and you run upon an opponent that you know, it's

720
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: a worthy of on it. You know, if you turn

721
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: a dog loose every time you turn it loose, and

722
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: the bear just popped up a tree, I would I

723
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: would grow weary of that. I get tired of that. Yeah, yeah,

724
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: you know, I think the biggest, the biggest, Uh, just

725
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: you talking about being able to be content inside of

726
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 1: you know, not tryining a bear and it being difficult.

727
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 1: You know, you grew up in these mountains in a

728
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: time when it was really hard to trip a bear

729
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 1: because there weren't as many here we're living. And I

730
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 1: asked you yesterday, I said, we are you in the

731
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: heyday of bears and and Appalachian mountains and uh, And

732
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 1: there's probably different answers to that, but no doubt there's

733
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: a lot of bears here, and a lot more than

734
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,399
Speaker 1: there used to be. When I was a kid growing up,

735
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: there was times when we might not find a bear

736
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: for two or three days to even turn it on

737
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: loose on. And so yeah, there's a lot more bear

738
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,439
Speaker 1: now than there was then. The trade off is we're

739
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: pinched a little tighter. There's still as much national forest,

740
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 1: but they've closed all the gates pretty much. There's very

741
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: few roads to drive, so access is foot only, and uh.

742
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: I know to some people that seems like it would

743
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 1: make it more fair to the bears. But the problem is,

744
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,240
Speaker 1: as you get older, there's not too many people pass

745
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: say fifty or fifty five that can still handle the

746
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,240
Speaker 1: mountains with any speed anymore. You know about dog speed.

747
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 1: I mean, the hunter's got to go there too. Where

748
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 1: the dog goes. You don't walk with the dog track

749
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: for track, But the the end game is you've gotta

750
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: be wherever he stops. And we had a lot more

751
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: access to the mountains when I was a boy to

752
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: be able to get certain places. And um, then so

753
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: many people have moved in around the foot of the

754
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: mountain from other areas that don't understand our culture, don't

755
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:55,240
Speaker 1: understand their history, have no clue what we're doing. And uh,

756
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: they'll buy say maybe an acre or two acres, and

757
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: then they don't want anybody within earshot of them doing

758
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: anything right that they don't quite understand. Whereas here's ago

759
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: you knew everybody, yeah, or if you didn't know him,

760
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: some guy you were with new them. And so we've

761
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: started training out we got more bear but less access. Yeah, yeah,

762
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,359
Speaker 1: that makes that's a great that's a great description of it,

763
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 1: I think. Um, and and they you know you you

764
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: talk to me the other day about bear sanctuaries, and

765
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: that's that's that's a pretty neat concept. So in Tennessee,

766
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: just to give a very general descriptions of the bear sanctuaries,

767
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 1: they've got all this national forest, massive amounts of national forests,

768
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: and they've blocked off these huge sections, I mean like

769
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of acres that they say, okay, this

770
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 1: is a bear sanctuary, so you can hunt bear here.

771
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,359
Speaker 1: You can hunt bear here, but you can't hunt bear here.

772
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: And you can hunt other stuff there. You can hunt

773
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: deer there, you can hunt tune there, you can do

774
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 1: other stuff. And what these bear sanctuaries have done has

775
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 1: helped the bears. You feel like, well, I would like

776
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: to talk about that. And let me begin by saying

777
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: on this subject that I personally appreciate what the t

778
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: w r A has done, say since the mid sixties.

779
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 1: Now I could be off a little bit in my

780
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: timing and when their programs started and so forth, but

781
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: from the mid sixties, which is just a little bit

782
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: before I was born, up through the mid seventies when

783
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: I was a kid, they wanted to get the barren

784
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: numbers up and they implemented, uh, what I call a

785
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: three pronged strategy. I don't know what's on their paperwork

786
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: at the t w r A, but from a hunter's

787
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: perspective perspective, it was this way. Number one, we only

788
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: had one short kill season, and there was I think

789
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: two weeks in December. It was usually like December one

790
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 1: two December kind of a deal, and we had a

791
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: short kill season, obviously less barer kill. Number two, it

792
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,399
Speaker 1: was always a late season, and the idea behind it

793
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 1: was that read seals would be laid up, so you

794
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: kill less seals, so that helped with numbers. Then the

795
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 1: third prong of that strategy were was the bar reserves.

796
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 1: And when I was a little kid, I can still

797
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 1: remember riding with my Papa around the bar sanctuary where

798
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 1: the bear we put into today, I rode with him

799
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: and I actually nailed up the sanctuary signs around that

800
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: sanctuary that some of them are still there in their

801
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 1: little triangles, and uh, they're still there today. Well, the

802
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 1: t w r A uh uh, several years ago now

803
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:42,720
Speaker 1: i'm gonna say pushing ten years decided that they wanted

804
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: the barren numbers to be lowered. There was too many bear.

805
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 1: Now we have argued over that. Obviously there are more bear,

806
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: but that's a different discretion than whether the too many bear.

807
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: So the t w r A come up with the

808
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: term cultural carrying capacity. And when I begin to look

809
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 1: into that, they did an article on it and their

810
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: magazine about cultural carying capacity, and basically that means there

811
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 1: are too many bear close to too many people, the

812
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:17,240
Speaker 1: amount of a certain species of wildlife that the human

813
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:22,359
Speaker 1: population will tolerate. Yeah, basically, yeah, cultural tolerance. Right now,

814
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 1: we have a good reasonal director here where we're at.

815
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 1: I like him a lot. I know the biologist, he

816
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: works hard, but that term cultural carrying and pacity. And

817
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 1: then an article in the magazine implied that the bear

818
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,720
Speaker 1: was just way overpopulated and need to be severely reduced,

819
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: and they begin to implement plans to do that. So

820
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 1: I asked them the question, the director and the biologist, Um,

821
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 1: what do you have a how many? I asked them

822
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: how many bear are in the state of Tennessee. Well,

823
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: obviously they don't know how many total bear are here,

824
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: and there's no way to know, but they go off

825
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 1: based off from what I could tell, primarily complaints that

826
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,280
Speaker 1: are called in that the wardens have to go answer.

827
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: And then they had a research method where they would

828
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: take sardine kins and string them down through certain areas,

829
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 1: and however many kins were hit, they sort of tabulated

830
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 1: the bear population general population numbers. One bear can hit

831
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 1: all those kins in a night, so our too, bear

832
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,359
Speaker 1: can hit all those kins. But you can't say ten

833
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 1: hit kNs equals ten bear or whatever it's There are

834
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 1: a lot of factors there. The bottom line is we

835
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:45,280
Speaker 1: don't know exactly the total number of bar in Tennessee.

836
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,800
Speaker 1: You could not know. They have started a new research

837
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 1: method where they put up barbed war fence type enclosures

838
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: and as the bear go in to get food, it

839
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:56,839
Speaker 1: pulls hair out and they use that as samples. That's

840
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:04,280
Speaker 1: probably more accurate. And him personally, I don't go along

841
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: with the idea that there are too many bear. But

842
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 1: they implemented this thing where they brought in a lot

843
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:17,280
Speaker 1: more bow season uh, and I'm not against people bow hunting.

844
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: They brought in shooting bar during deer season, you know,

845
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:23,879
Speaker 1: just if it passed by your tree, staying kind of thing.

846
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 1: They implemented longer hound seasons. The hound people really didn't

847
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 1: want to kill that many more bear, but pretty much

848
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: if we weren't willing to kill them, they were going

849
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 1: to get somebody else to because they wanted the numbers lowered. Period.

850
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 1: So I guess the point being, yes, there there are

851
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: a lot more better than they used to be, but

852
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 1: I doubt there'll ever be too many bear for a

853
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 1: bear hunter. It's a good way to say, you know,

854
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,320
Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting and so this really shows

855
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 1: the really the heart of the modern conservation hunter is

856
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 1: that we want wildlife to thrive. We are we are

857
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:12,399
Speaker 1: the best friend of bear. Well, that's the three pronged plan.

858
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 1: And we were talking about they've done away with short

859
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 1: seasons because we have an extremely long seasons now for

860
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:22,800
Speaker 1: kill UH. And they've done away with having only a

861
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 1: late season because we're starting all the way in October now.

862
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 1: So the only prong of that plan left is the sanctuaries.

863
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 1: And I've heard talk recently that they want to do

864
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:37,359
Speaker 1: away with the sanctuaries, which I I hope they never do.

865
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna say something here. I'm not a biologist,

866
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 1: I don't pretend to be one, and I didn't sleep

867
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: at a holiday and last night. But from what I've read,

868
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:51,359
Speaker 1: UH sALS like to go back and raise where they

869
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 1: were born, same general area. I believe one of the

870
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:59,279
Speaker 1: reasons we have a stable bear population is because the

871
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: bears that are are actually being born and raised are

872
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 1: generational from the same places. And what we're killing is

873
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 1: the overflow out of the sanctuaries. If you take away

874
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: the sanctuaries, more or less, what you'll do is end

875
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: up harassing bear in every location where. How can anything

876
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:21,399
Speaker 1: ever be a traditional um ground to raise the little ones?

877
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:23,400
Speaker 1: What can they ever go back to? Where where can

878
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:28,360
Speaker 1: they get away from being run or tree or whatever?

879
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,839
Speaker 1: You know. I think those seals need places that they

880
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 1: can go back to that they are familiar with and

881
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: raise their little ones were there's no encroachment at all. Yeah,

882
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: And so again the hound hunters saying keep the sanctuaries.

883
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, hown hound hunters saying let's let's limit ourselves

884
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:53,320
Speaker 1: and say we will not kill bear in this big

885
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 1: section section of ground. And I mean that those sanctuaries

886
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 1: cost us a bear today. And you guys, I'm fine

887
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 1: with that. The bear one. Yeah, you just catch your

888
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 1: dogs off of it and laugh and give him a

889
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 1: thumbs up. Yep, you beat us today. We'll see you

890
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: next time. Yeah, that's great. And so I mean I

891
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: thought about it in these terms. If the way I

892
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 1: view it is correct, and you're having generational den sights

893
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,879
Speaker 1: or den areas, areas where sALS raised their little ones.

894
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 1: If my grandfather was running those bear in uh late fifties,

895
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:40,359
Speaker 1: mid sixties with plots and now here I'm up in

896
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 1: and me my cousin, Charles, my cousin Rocky, my cousin Terry,

897
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 1: other family members, friends that have we've had for years.

898
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:55,799
Speaker 1: Our dogs are twelve generations, and to me, it's, uh,

899
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 1: there's a lot of Appalachian I don't know, pride is

900
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 1: the worst, there's the word for it. But there's a

901
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:07,319
Speaker 1: lot of historical satisfaction for me to think that my

902
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: dogs go back twelve generations to where we got started

903
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,320
Speaker 1: and the bar were running, are still the same offspring

904
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: and the bear those dogs are running and you're you're

905
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 1: running them in the same place. Yeah. I thought it

906
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: was really neat this week just to hear you Ben's

907
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 1: commentary and your commentary just on this area you're hunting.

908
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: I mean, really if you think, I mean you've been

909
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 1: hunting bears since you were a kid, I mean decades

910
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 1: of even that same mountain. I mean, you guys will

911
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 1: probably treed bears all over that mountain that races all

912
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 1: over it. You, I mean your grandfather. Uh, I mean,

913
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: well you live in this valley, but you know you

914
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 1: you just got so much history here that's not normal

915
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 1: I mean most people. I mean that's I think that's

916
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 1: something that's unique to this region of the country too,

917
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: is that there's I don't know. I don't see this

918
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 1: in Arkansas. Well, papa's family came the Charlton's came in

919
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: in the mid eighteen hundreds, and my dad's side of

920
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: the family, uh, the Reeves side, his mother's side, came

921
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: in very similar long time that the Crocketts came here.

922
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 1: And I meant to Davy Crockett's family, and David Croctt

923
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: was born in this same county where we're at here,

924
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 1: in Green County, and his family owned a mill just

925
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 1: about three or four miles over here on a creek

926
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 1: going in the river. And when that when the Crockett

927
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 1: people come in, it was very similar times that my

928
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 1: dad's family came in. So yeah, I mean we've been

929
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 1: here in generation after generation after generation. Yeah, and a

930
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 1: lot of history and and a lot of tradition. But

931
00:58:55,920 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: like we were discussing earlier, some traditions are really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

932
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:07,439
Speaker 1: yeah they are. Yeah. Well, hey, as we I want

933
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 1: to give you an opportunity before we end to just

934
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 1: say whatever you want about bear dogs and bear hunting.

935
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 1: But before we do that, you told me some neat

936
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 1: stories and I'm trying to uh, you told me some

937
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 1: neat stories about your grandfather, UM, tell the story about

938
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 1: him coming into town. This isn't related to bear hunting,

939
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: but this is just well our our strain of plots,

940
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 1: Houston Valley plots, UM, originated out of where my grandfather

941
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 1: was born. He was born in Houston Valley. So Houston

942
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 1: Valley is the place. Yes, it's a place. He was

943
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 1: born there. And uh, he was thirteen years old before

944
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 1: he ever went to Greenwood for the first time. All

945
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 1: he had ever been to was a little country stores.

946
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 1: And he said his he was shocked when he got

947
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 1: the green Will because in his mind town was just

948
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: a very large building, a bigger country store. He thought

949
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 1: he was going to a bigger store. And he said

950
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 1: he couldn't believe all the buildings in town. Huh, thirteen

951
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 1: years old road in a wagon. Wow, that's amazing. That's amazing.

952
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 1: Any other Neat family stories. You've told me something that

953
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: I as you were telling me, I was like, I

954
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 1: wish I could have recorded that. Um. I can't think

955
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 1: of what they would exactly offhand, but I remember when

956
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: you told me that, I was like thirteen years old

957
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 1: before he ever went into town, and that was just

958
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 1: right down here. This place was really geographically isolated. You know,

959
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,919
Speaker 1: the mountains kind of just isolated people. Well you told

960
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 1: me this, you said, you said, the rich people lived

961
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 1: down the river bottoms, the poor people lived up in

962
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 1: these mountains. And uh, that's the ironic thing today about

963
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 1: how much how expensive the mountain end is a local

964
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 1: kid who wants to live here and work here and

965
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 1: stay here. He can't even afford to buy a piece

966
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 1: of property, hardly anymore. But the reason his ancestors were

967
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 1: here is because nobody else literally wanted it. Yeah. Yeah,

968
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 1: And so now people are wanting to live in the

969
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 1: mountains just for the recreational is the statics these mountains

970
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: are spectacular. It was the worst ground possible for a farmer.

971
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it goes to show you just

972
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 1: how much our values system has changed. And and this

973
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 1: is just a progression of society, I suspect, But I mean,

974
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 1: there was a time when aesthetics meant nothing. My dad's

975
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 1: seventy years old and he tells me, he said, Clay,

976
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 1: we used to not talk about views, and you know,

977
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 1: in terms of land, like now you go buy a

978
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 1: piece of land or you build your house in the

979
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 1: mountains there in the Ozarks, It's like, man, I want

980
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 1: a place where I have a beautiful view. Or land

981
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 1: actually has more value if you've got a nice view

982
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 1: and you can look down. And he said, well, used

983
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 1: to not talk like that. People were a lot more dysfunctional,

984
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 1: and so you know, it makes sense. I mean this,

985
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 1: this is tough ground to just live in. I mean,

986
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 1: to walk up to your dogs, you gotta walk up

987
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 1: the hill Ben at Ben's house. I mean, it's just

988
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 1: you gotta put your truck and world drive to get

989
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 1: his drive away half the time. I mean, it's just

990
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: tough to live here. You know what I mean. Well,

991
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:21,160
Speaker 1: we have a lot of first world problems. Now our

992
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: our kids talk about the career they want. When our forefathers,

993
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 1: I only wanted a job. I mean my path Ball

994
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 1: worked at pet Milk Company from the time he was

995
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 1: sixteen until he was sixty mh. And Uh, I was

996
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 1: glad to just have a job. He didn't have the

997
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 1: luxury of wanting a career or choosing a career. Oh no,

998
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 1: the choice was work or not eat, and they preferred

999
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 1: to eat. And he was happy and satisfied. He was

1000
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 1: one of the most content people I've ever known. And Uh,

1001
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 1: the principles that came out of that. I mean just

1002
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 1: I could sit here all day and talk about the

1003
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:10,440
Speaker 1: things that him or my dad are some of the

1004
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 1: other old timers you know, believed in. And just just

1005
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: one example, when I would help my my papile built fins,

1006
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 1: he wouldn't allow you put your hands in your pockets.

1007
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 1: I mean he could be down on his knees driving

1008
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 1: a staple in the barbed wire and you were just

1009
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 1: waiting on him, you know what he needed next. And

1010
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: if he caught me one day with my hands in

1011
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,040
Speaker 1: my pockets, and I mean just chewed me out rayly.

1012
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 1: And he was not that kind of person, he jim,

1013
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 1: he wouldn't want to you be wow. But it made

1014
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 1: him mad because he saw me standing there with my

1015
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 1: hands in my pockets. Because in his mind, if he

1016
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 1: had got caught with his hands in his pockets coming

1017
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 1: out of the depression, he would could have lost his

1018
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 1: fifties cent our job because so many other people wanted it.

1019
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 1: And he didn't want me going to work. Just the perception, yes,

1020
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 1: of being at work and in your hands, did not

1021
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:02,440
Speaker 1: put your hands in your pockets. If somebody was working,

1022
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 1: he'd say, watch me, watch me, watch what I'm doing,

1023
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:09,600
Speaker 1: and have what I need next. Yeah. And then my

1024
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:13,720
Speaker 1: dad was fanatical about taking care of equipment and stuff.

1025
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 1: I mean, if if he bought something twenty years later,

1026
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 1: it would be as good as shape as it was

1027
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:22,919
Speaker 1: when he bought it new, because he grew up poor. Yeah,

1028
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 1: and so those kinds of things. You know, I have

1029
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:31,440
Speaker 1: had it much better than my grandpa had it. I

1030
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 1: had it much better than my dad had it. And uh,

1031
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't trade I grew up for for anything. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah,

1032
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:49,320
Speaker 1: Sometimes options aren't necessarily beneficial when you think about, like

1033
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: all the options that we have now, I mean options

1034
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 1: in terms of career, where to live. I mean, like

1035
01:04:56,640 --> 01:05:00,479
Speaker 1: like the prosperity of of where we live, the time

1036
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 1: we live in has given us a lot of options.

1037
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 1: I mean even like what to have for dinner, who

1038
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 1: to marry, who to marry? You know, fifty sixty years ago,

1039
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 1: years ago, you knew three girls down the road and

1040
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:16,120
Speaker 1: you married one of them and you were happy, and

1041
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 1: you raise kids, and you built a home and you

1042
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:20,440
Speaker 1: had a job and you stayed married for seventy years.

1043
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 1: And now you can use e harmony dot com and

1044
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 1: get all the stars to line up and can't last

1045
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 1: six months. Yeah yeah, it's it's not about the process

1046
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:36,959
Speaker 1: has the heart of the people, Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.

1047
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:42,479
Speaker 1: Options aren't always good. Options create options create a whole

1048
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 1: another set of issues, you know. But but no, and

1049
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 1: I'll steer it right back into the bearhound world and

1050
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:54,240
Speaker 1: that as we close, and I'm gonna give you you

1051
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: can be thinking about this, I'm gonna say, tell us

1052
01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:59,240
Speaker 1: a good bear hunting story to end it with. But

1053
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 1: this one I was gonna say is that these mountain

1054
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:05,960
Speaker 1: people that built these lines and strains of plots and

1055
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 1: not just plots, any any line of bear dogs. Man,

1056
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:12,040
Speaker 1: they didn't have the luxury of keeping a dog that

1057
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 1: wasn't producing game. They they didn't have that luxury. And

1058
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 1: so if they had a dog, that dog had a purpose.

1059
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 1: If that dog didn't fulfill that purpose, it was gone.

1060
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:28,400
Speaker 1: And so they had these they they developed the foundations

1061
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:32,080
Speaker 1: of these excellent lines of dogs that had all the stuff.

1062
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 1: And then today, to me, it looks like it feels

1063
01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: like that we're kind of maybe have the option to

1064
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 1: even make that some of those lines better by the

1065
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 1: options that we do have. Because you can have a

1066
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 1: litteral pups and This is what I mean. You can

1067
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 1: have a litter pups. That female has nine puppies. You

1068
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 1: distribute those puppies to different people, and you're able to

1069
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 1: stay connected to those people just through technology, even if

1070
01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:58,640
Speaker 1: they live a long ways away. You're able to get

1071
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 1: reports on how they did. So you're able negotiate a

1072
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 1: little bit and breathed back into some better stuff. Maybe

1073
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 1: well back you're talking about breeding. Back several years ago,

1074
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:16,000
Speaker 1: Steve Fielder, before Facebook, it was a thing. Steve Fielder

1075
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:19,360
Speaker 1: had one of the first plot websites, plot dogs dot Com.

1076
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 1: I was still in Montana at that time, and I

1077
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:26,560
Speaker 1: wrote a thing on there on Steve Fielder's website one time.

1078
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:29,640
Speaker 1: It's pretty lengthy, but it was basically in praise of

1079
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 1: a good dog, and uh, there's lots of talk. There

1080
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 1: was lots of talk at that time about who had

1081
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 1: the phenomenal that was the word that was being used,

1082
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 1: Who had the phenomenal dogs? Who had them because people

1083
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:47,880
Speaker 1: were just starting to connect through social media and everybody

1084
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 1: wants to know what everybody else had. So I I

1085
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:55,200
Speaker 1: wrote this thing that on and you know, in praise

1086
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:59,440
Speaker 1: of a good dog, because to me, when you're breeding dogs,

1087
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 1: that you're primarily looking for. Is not a phenomenon just

1088
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 1: by its very definition of phenomenon is rare. If it

1089
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:13,919
Speaker 1: wasn't rare, it wouldn't be a phenomenon. Right, So if

1090
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,840
Speaker 1: you have a lot of phenomenon, just's now it's normal.

1091
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:21,680
Speaker 1: Now the title of your article A good dog, not

1092
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 1: a phenomenal dog, just a good dog right now. What

1093
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 1: you're looking for to me and breeding is consistency over

1094
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 1: a period of generations. Will your dogs catch what you

1095
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:38,679
Speaker 1: want caught them? We didn't quite finish that conversation because

1096
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 1: people will talk things about like it's a dog's mouth,

1097
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 1: does it have a good mouth. Now, I don't personally

1098
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:50,000
Speaker 1: like a silent trailer dog because I want to hear

1099
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 1: the race. That's to me, that's the enjoyable part of hunting.

1100
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 1: It's here in the race. So even if a silent

1101
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:58,160
Speaker 1: dog is producing more, I still want to hear it,

1102
01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:03,840
Speaker 1: which I don't particularly think think to catch anymore. But um,

1103
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:07,599
Speaker 1: but if a dog has a great mouth but he's

1104
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:10,680
Speaker 1: not catching game, then the mouth it's like having a

1105
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 1: horn on a car with no engine. It's it's an

1106
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:18,360
Speaker 1: add on, it's an extra, it's a it's good, but

1107
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:20,760
Speaker 1: it's not the fundamental, but a lot of people are

1108
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:24,200
Speaker 1: looking for the like a tree dog. What if what

1109
01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:26,400
Speaker 1: if a dog trees a D twenty barks a minute

1110
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:30,439
Speaker 1: but can't catch game. But can't catch game? What I mean,

1111
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:32,639
Speaker 1: what's the point of that dog? To me, he's useless.

1112
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 1: I mean he's completely useless. Yeah, and uh, you know,

1113
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:40,920
Speaker 1: a bar dog. To me, we were talking about traits.

1114
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 1: The tree aspect on a bar dog is not how

1115
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:46,400
Speaker 1: many barks a minute he puts off, but will he

1116
01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:51,639
Speaker 1: stay tree till I get there? If he will stay

1117
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:54,240
Speaker 1: treat until you get there, that's a good tree dog.

1118
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 1: So it doesn't matter if he's backed off the tree.

1119
01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:00,880
Speaker 1: I hear a lot of people talking about big game

1120
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:02,960
Speaker 1: dogs and they say, well, he's not a real good

1121
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:04,960
Speaker 1: he's not a real good tree dog. He'll back off

1122
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 1: the tree and sit down and look up. And I

1123
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:10,200
Speaker 1: mean I even come from a coon hunting background, and

1124
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 1: I'm kind of like, well, as long as he's there

1125
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:14,599
Speaker 1: and he's barking, well, it doesn't matter if he's standing

1126
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:16,639
Speaker 1: on the tree or not. I can't speak for ever

1127
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 1: bear hunter, but to me, I think some of that

1128
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:22,160
Speaker 1: probably flows out of the coon dog vernacular. Rubbing tree

1129
01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:26,040
Speaker 1: dog and stuff. A good A good tree dog to me,

1130
01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:28,280
Speaker 1: Number one is one it stays till I get there.

1131
01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 1: Number two is one who barks till I get there.

1132
01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 1: Don't have to be a hundred twenty barks a minute,

1133
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:36,840
Speaker 1: but he needs to keep barking. If it's thirty barks

1134
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:38,719
Speaker 1: a minute, but he will do it for six hours.

1135
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:44,080
Speaker 1: If he's in a bad place, that's that's fun. Uh.

1136
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:47,200
Speaker 1: But back and off the tree. I like a dog

1137
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:49,240
Speaker 1: that stays back off the tree. A lot of bar

1138
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:51,280
Speaker 1: dogs will back up a bank so he can look

1139
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:56,160
Speaker 1: straight across at the bar and Uh. The good part

1140
01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 1: about that to me, to some extent, is they stay

1141
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:02,400
Speaker 1: out of trouble. See, there's a misperception that bare dogs

1142
01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:07,200
Speaker 1: are ill, and that's totally backwards because if and I

1143
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:09,920
Speaker 1: and I'm not opposed to conut, and I'm four cnut

1144
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:11,640
Speaker 1: and I enjoy it. You and I've talked about that

1145
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 1: this week. But if you have an ill coon dog

1146
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:17,519
Speaker 1: in today's world, you're and you're hunting a wood lot.

1147
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 1: If you have trouble at the tree, you can be

1148
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:23,840
Speaker 1: there in ten minutes. If you have an ill bared

1149
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 1: dog at the tree, you might not be there for

1150
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:29,439
Speaker 1: five or six hours, depending on how hard it is

1151
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:31,680
Speaker 1: to get to the tree. And if you've got an

1152
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 1: ill dog there, you just won't have dogs that are hurt.

1153
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 1: You'll have dogs that are dead. Yeah. Yeah, And so

1154
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:42,240
Speaker 1: you cannot allow an ill tree dog to be part

1155
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:45,400
Speaker 1: of your pack at all. He cannot be ill and

1156
01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:47,760
Speaker 1: a dog if you hunt in mixed packs, like if

1157
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 1: you've got buddies you hunt with are occasionally, you know,

1158
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:51,640
Speaker 1: if you bar hunt, you're gonna end up hunt with

1159
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:55,680
Speaker 1: a stranger somewhere and say he's got one it is

1160
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:57,760
Speaker 1: a little rough on the tree. You know, I don't

1161
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:01,000
Speaker 1: want mine, you know, fighting back and you know you

1162
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 1: don't want jumping and running. If he's sitting back, he's

1163
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 1: staying out of trouble. Back up, stay there and I

1164
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:10,040
Speaker 1: get there, stay out of trouble. And because you know,

1165
01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:12,760
Speaker 1: on these bear trees, there's usually not gonna be just

1166
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 1: one dog. There's gonna be lots of dogs. So just

1167
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 1: for people that aren't used to this bear hunting, like,

1168
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:22,880
Speaker 1: you're turning several a lot of dogs loose, but end

1169
01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:25,679
Speaker 1: us with a Can you think of an iconic bear

1170
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:32,080
Speaker 1: hunting story from these mountains? If it's recent or old. Yeah.

1171
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:35,040
Speaker 1: You before we get to that, you asked me if

1172
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 1: there was anything I wanted to say just in general,

1173
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:42,960
Speaker 1: can touch on that before the story. Um, I'm an

1174
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:49,240
Speaker 1: observer of people, and uh, through social media, you get

1175
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:52,559
Speaker 1: to observe a lot of people who who hound hunt.

1176
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:55,760
Speaker 1: And there's a few things that if I had the

1177
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:58,679
Speaker 1: opportunity to say to people who were in hound hunting.

1178
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:01,880
Speaker 1: The one of the things that I would say is this,

1179
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 1: it would be relax and learn to enjoy the experience

1180
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:12,000
Speaker 1: as much as you enjoy the final product. Mm hmm.

1181
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:18,120
Speaker 1: Because your life is so short, and if you spend

1182
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 1: your hunting career mad about something, frustrated about something, tore

1183
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:26,519
Speaker 1: all the pieces about something, fighting with other people, you're

1184
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:30,439
Speaker 1: gonna waste your life. And the whole purpose you're out

1185
01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:33,439
Speaker 1: there is to enjoy it. If it's not, I don't

1186
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:36,800
Speaker 1: you're we eat the meat, but you can buy beef.

1187
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:42,639
Speaker 1: We're there for the experience. Yeah. So if you're if

1188
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:46,439
Speaker 1: you are the person who's ruining your own experiences because

1189
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:49,479
Speaker 1: you can't deal with every little thing that happens, you're

1190
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 1: never gonna you probably ought to quit houn hunt. Because

1191
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:57,280
Speaker 1: I grew up around people. Some of them were wired

1192
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:01,400
Speaker 1: up so strong that they hunted all their life, but

1193
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:03,599
Speaker 1: I'm not sure they enjoyed it as much as other people.

1194
01:14:04,479 --> 01:14:07,320
Speaker 1: But my path ball man, he enjoyed hunting as much

1195
01:14:07,360 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 1: as anybo there. There was better bar hunters than Barry trotting,

1196
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:13,920
Speaker 1: but nobody enjoyed it more. So I think he was

1197
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:19,080
Speaker 1: the winner. That's saying a lot right there. So learn

1198
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:22,200
Speaker 1: to enjoy it. And the next thing I would say

1199
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:25,760
Speaker 1: is this is, don't try to make your hounds an

1200
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:28,479
Speaker 1: extension of who you are as a person in reference

1201
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:34,240
Speaker 1: to your own pride. Mm hmm um. I think there's

1202
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:38,800
Speaker 1: some people that their whole life has built around what

1203
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:42,240
Speaker 1: their dogs do, and what happens there is they end

1204
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:46,720
Speaker 1: up again not enjoying it and to making life so

1205
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:49,720
Speaker 1: difficult on their hounds that their hounds can't enjoy being

1206
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 1: hounds either. But you know, you're who you are as

1207
01:14:56,439 --> 01:14:58,840
Speaker 1: a human being, and what kind of person you are

1208
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:02,040
Speaker 1: is gonna tell a lot. But the way you deal

1209
01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 1: with others and the way you deal with hunting and

1210
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:10,760
Speaker 1: so and then to go along with that is and uh,

1211
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:13,720
Speaker 1: maybe this is the pastor coming out in me. If

1212
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:16,080
Speaker 1: you don't mind me throwing this out there, if it's

1213
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:20,639
Speaker 1: not too far off ground is keep keep your your

1214
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:30,439
Speaker 1: hound hunting in it's in its rightful place. Um prioritization. Yeah, uh,

1215
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:32,679
Speaker 1: I know people are not listening to this podcast because

1216
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:36,800
Speaker 1: they want to hear me preach at him. But there

1217
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 1: are some things in this life that are more important.

1218
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:44,000
Speaker 1: Your wife's more important, and your kids are more important.

1219
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:52,439
Speaker 1: And uh, I've seen a lot of destruction and my

1220
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:55,519
Speaker 1: grandpa he tried to help some people along these lines.

1221
01:15:55,720 --> 01:16:01,240
Speaker 1: You know, you if you, if you'll keep it in

1222
01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:04,240
Speaker 1: this rightful place and its rightful's perspective, you can have

1223
01:16:04,280 --> 01:16:08,760
Speaker 1: a balanced life where you enjoy your hounds, and your

1224
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:12,639
Speaker 1: wife can enjoy you having your hounds, and your kids

1225
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:16,719
Speaker 1: can enjoy you having those two. And uh, you know, I,

1226
01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:19,280
Speaker 1: I know it's foolish to say this, but I see

1227
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 1: these memes that these boys put on Facebook that it'll

1228
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:25,640
Speaker 1: show them throwing their girlfriend off a cliff. You know,

1229
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:27,599
Speaker 1: she told me it was either mere in the hounds

1230
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:30,800
Speaker 1: and you see her falling off a cliff. You know.

1231
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:33,960
Speaker 1: I know there's probably some humor in that for a kid,

1232
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:37,519
Speaker 1: but as a dad, if I look at that and

1233
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:40,680
Speaker 1: that's my daughter going off the cliff because some some

1234
01:16:40,840 --> 01:16:45,120
Speaker 1: boy has that mentality towards my daughter. He's not the

1235
01:16:45,240 --> 01:16:50,160
Speaker 1: right guy. There's no perspective whatsoever there. And and I

1236
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:56,880
Speaker 1: say that because at some point, if that's all your

1237
01:16:56,920 --> 01:17:01,280
Speaker 1: life is, you're not gonna be happy with that. There's

1238
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:07,240
Speaker 1: gonna know it will be no satisfaction for you. And that, Yeah,

1239
01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:12,160
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that, because that's that's the the

1240
01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:16,800
Speaker 1: key to life is balanced and understanding the priorities. And

1241
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:18,880
Speaker 1: I think it goes not just for hound hunters, but

1242
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:22,320
Speaker 1: for anybody that is passionate about hunting, or for really

1243
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:25,200
Speaker 1: passionate about anything. But guys that are passionate about hunting

1244
01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:30,559
Speaker 1: ten to be can be eccentric and so focused on

1245
01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:35,200
Speaker 1: this one aspect of their life. That's great. You know,

1246
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:37,400
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that about the memes because I

1247
01:17:37,439 --> 01:17:40,120
Speaker 1: think that every time I would never in my life

1248
01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:44,799
Speaker 1: post meme or something like that. I mean, because obviously

1249
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 1: it might be funny, but there's truth behind what's being

1250
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:52,920
Speaker 1: said and stuff like that. And and your family has

1251
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:56,160
Speaker 1: got to be your family. There's there's a lot, there's

1252
01:17:56,200 --> 01:17:58,840
Speaker 1: a lot that's in line above that. But and hound

1253
01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:01,679
Speaker 1: honey is all encompassing. I think that to somebody that's

1254
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:06,160
Speaker 1: not been around the hound world, what what Tracy is

1255
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:08,599
Speaker 1: saying is that it is true. Is that to have

1256
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:12,240
Speaker 1: twenty hounds in your backyard and to hunt those dogs,

1257
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:14,559
Speaker 1: and to breathe those dogs and care for those dogs,

1258
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:20,559
Speaker 1: and to have them for decades kinda is can be

1259
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:25,519
Speaker 1: all encompassing. It can dominate your life. It can in

1260
01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:30,720
Speaker 1: family plays a major role in that deal there. And uh,

1261
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:34,519
Speaker 1: which this is a totally different subject, but I'm reminded

1262
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:37,280
Speaker 1: of it as we talk about these things, just random things,

1263
01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:39,439
Speaker 1: you know that I would want to say about the

1264
01:18:39,439 --> 01:18:43,599
Speaker 1: all matters. And I said this at the supper table

1265
01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:49,719
Speaker 1: maybe last night. UM, that states are trying to figure

1266
01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:52,400
Speaker 1: out how to get more kids in the hunting because

1267
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:56,479
Speaker 1: hunting number hundred numbers are dwindling. There's very few bar

1268
01:18:56,640 --> 01:19:00,160
Speaker 1: hunters left in East Tennessee and western North Carolina MM

1269
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:03,240
Speaker 1: compared to what it was years ago. I mean, it's

1270
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:06,200
Speaker 1: it's going downhill. They won't have to outlaw bar hunting.

1271
01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:09,559
Speaker 1: There ain't gonna be nobody left to do it. And uh,

1272
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 1: I believe that part of the reason for that is

1273
01:19:17,200 --> 01:19:21,960
Speaker 1: because kids are being raised too soft. And I believe

1274
01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:26,960
Speaker 1: hunters are partly responsible for that. The men and I

1275
01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:31,040
Speaker 1: was raised around. I mean they they were good to me,

1276
01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:34,040
Speaker 1: and I tagged along with them, but they expected me,

1277
01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:36,920
Speaker 1: as a kid, you know, to participate not just in

1278
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:40,839
Speaker 1: the shooting, but also in the work leading the dogs,

1279
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:43,799
Speaker 1: handling the dogs, helping the dogs, feeding the dogs, taking

1280
01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:49,000
Speaker 1: care of everything, uh, you know, taking dogs into the

1281
01:19:49,040 --> 01:19:51,720
Speaker 1: person who had found the track and so forth. And

1282
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:57,840
Speaker 1: today what you see is the adults who are just

1283
01:19:59,160 --> 01:20:02,679
Speaker 1: obsessed with getting their five year old, six year old,

1284
01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:05,439
Speaker 1: seven year old kid in there to shoot their first animal,

1285
01:20:06,120 --> 01:20:09,120
Speaker 1: when that kid has no clue what's taken place in

1286
01:20:09,200 --> 01:20:13,559
Speaker 1: the in the totality of things, and once they've gone

1287
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:21,760
Speaker 1: in and killed it, what's left for him. Yeah, I

1288
01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:25,800
Speaker 1: actually think we we probably are not building the kind

1289
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:31,439
Speaker 1: of kids that can be bare hunters now. Yeah. And

1290
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:33,600
Speaker 1: it takes a certain kind of person, certain kind of

1291
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:36,760
Speaker 1: mindset that can handle that day after day business of

1292
01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:41,719
Speaker 1: dealing with hounds and mountains and swamps and other things

1293
01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:47,599
Speaker 1: in the uh. Even and we're making things so easy

1294
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:50,400
Speaker 1: on the kids, and we don't have any expectation for

1295
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:53,120
Speaker 1: them to work hard and to do their part and

1296
01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:58,280
Speaker 1: to wait for the reward. Yeah, yeah, it's it's kind

1297
01:20:58,280 --> 01:21:02,320
Speaker 1: of the trend of modern culture. It's brought itself into hunting.

1298
01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:05,400
Speaker 1: Is that. Hey, the way that we recruit these kids

1299
01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:08,120
Speaker 1: as we make it really easy for him. And I'm

1300
01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:10,879
Speaker 1: with you, but we've got to have a hunter recruitment.

1301
01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:13,320
Speaker 1: We've got to involve our kids. But oh man, I

1302
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:16,639
Speaker 1: could do a whole podcast on how I've what I've

1303
01:21:16,680 --> 01:21:19,479
Speaker 1: done with my kids. And I think I've made some mistakes,

1304
01:21:19,479 --> 01:21:22,519
Speaker 1: but I think I've also done some things right. Um,

1305
01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:26,000
Speaker 1: But I'm a hundercent agreement with you on what you're saying.

1306
01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:28,800
Speaker 1: I mean, you got you gotta make it. It was

1307
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:31,200
Speaker 1: honey was hard for me growing up. I know that

1308
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:34,480
Speaker 1: it was. My dad did not make it easy for us,

1309
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:36,600
Speaker 1: and he kind of ran my brothers off from it

1310
01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:42,040
Speaker 1: in some ways. Um, But but that being said, it

1311
01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:45,960
Speaker 1: it wasn't his fault. I mean, it's just just this

1312
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:48,479
Speaker 1: is an over an exaggeration just to prove a point.

1313
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:51,640
Speaker 1: But the way I would maybe explain it is you

1314
01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:55,800
Speaker 1: got kids that have killed multiple animals that couldn't tell

1315
01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:58,200
Speaker 1: you what a white oak was. I wouldn't know a

1316
01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:01,800
Speaker 1: white oak from a popular They don't know anything about

1317
01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:04,880
Speaker 1: the woods. They don't know anything about the game. They

1318
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:09,720
Speaker 1: they are just handed to the end result on a

1319
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:12,400
Speaker 1: platter by people who have worked their whole life to

1320
01:22:12,439 --> 01:22:19,200
Speaker 1: get there. It's a great example, and I think they

1321
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:21,439
Speaker 1: need to be told when they're young. Son, this is

1322
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:25,839
Speaker 1: important to our family. This is how we do our business.

1323
01:22:27,080 --> 01:22:31,080
Speaker 1: You help with the dogs, you lead, things, you feed, things,

1324
01:22:31,120 --> 01:22:34,760
Speaker 1: you take care of and at some point it'll be right,

1325
01:22:34,920 --> 01:22:39,840
Speaker 1: and I'll let you know when that's good. Well, hey,

1326
01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:45,519
Speaker 1: I'll give this offer to you again. I think the

1327
01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:48,240
Speaker 1: one that I will mention is being the first bear

1328
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:53,360
Speaker 1: Bend got to kill. Since we're talking about kids. Uh,

1329
01:22:53,479 --> 01:22:57,920
Speaker 1: we were living in Montana. I pastored out there, and

1330
01:22:58,600 --> 01:23:01,360
Speaker 1: in Montana that time, you couldn't kill big game until

1331
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:05,400
Speaker 1: you were twelve. So we were gonna be moving out

1332
01:23:05,400 --> 01:23:10,080
Speaker 1: of Montana, uh in late fall, and the big game

1333
01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:14,160
Speaker 1: seasons were opening, and Uh he had turned twelve the

1334
01:23:14,200 --> 01:23:17,479
Speaker 1: previous December, so I was able to get him start hunting.

1335
01:23:17,479 --> 01:23:21,720
Speaker 1: He killed his first mule deer, buck, killed his first elk.

1336
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:24,160
Speaker 1: I took him pheasant hunting, and I had a nice

1337
01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:26,800
Speaker 1: English pointer. He went three for three on the first

1338
01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:29,800
Speaker 1: three pheasants had ever come up in front of him,

1339
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:33,160
Speaker 1: and uh, obviously I was just tickled to death with that.

1340
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:36,960
Speaker 1: And uh we moved back to Tennessee and we got

1341
01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:40,920
Speaker 1: back here and if I if I remember right, it

1342
01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:44,040
Speaker 1: was the last day of bear season. It was on

1343
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:48,360
Speaker 1: a Wednesday, And I remember it was on a Wednesday

1344
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:53,240
Speaker 1: because we went to church that night and most people

1345
01:23:53,280 --> 01:23:56,840
Speaker 1: had already used their vacation. Up. The hunter numbers up

1346
01:23:56,840 --> 01:23:58,880
Speaker 1: on the mountain were, you know, pretty low, and it

1347
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:02,160
Speaker 1: was just it was me and Ben and my pap

1348
01:24:02,240 --> 01:24:08,519
Speaker 1: Ball And at the time he was like probably seventy eight,

1349
01:24:09,640 --> 01:24:12,479
Speaker 1: seventy seventy eight somewhere right in there. I'd have to

1350
01:24:12,520 --> 01:24:19,080
Speaker 1: calculate that Ben was twelve, just getting ready to turn thirteen.

1351
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:24,120
Speaker 1: And Uh. I was up on a place called Kennedy

1352
01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:29,320
Speaker 1: Cabin and I walked out a trail called the fires Gold.

1353
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:33,400
Speaker 1: On the way out, I just had one dog with me.

1354
01:24:33,439 --> 01:24:34,840
Speaker 1: I was just looking to see if we could find

1355
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:37,000
Speaker 1: something to turn loose. On the way. I didn't find anything.

1356
01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:40,320
Speaker 1: Turned around and it's coming back and struck one red

1357
01:24:40,360 --> 01:24:45,960
Speaker 1: hot so crossed behind me. So I called on the

1358
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:50,559
Speaker 1: radio and I told Ben to bring me. I just

1359
01:24:50,640 --> 01:24:52,840
Speaker 1: think we had maybe four dogs with us that day

1360
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:56,840
Speaker 1: something like that, told him to bring me the other dogs. Well,

1361
01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:01,400
Speaker 1: my papal, who was in his upper seventies there, mid

1362
01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:05,400
Speaker 1: upper seventies, came with him leading dogs, and just us

1363
01:25:05,479 --> 01:25:10,519
Speaker 1: three and UH turn loose. The bear went down off

1364
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:16,200
Speaker 1: the Camp Creek side of the mountain. I won't go

1365
01:25:16,240 --> 01:25:18,280
Speaker 1: into a lot of details because the listeners wouldn't know

1366
01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:19,840
Speaker 1: what I was talking about anyways, but it made a

1367
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:23,200
Speaker 1: huge loop around the side of the mountain, turn and

1368
01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:25,720
Speaker 1: came back and crossed not far from where we had

1369
01:25:25,760 --> 01:25:28,599
Speaker 1: turned loose, dropped on the opposite side of the mountain,

1370
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:32,720
Speaker 1: and Uh, we were still up on top. And just

1371
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:34,840
Speaker 1: so happened that bear was going to try to cross

1372
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:37,040
Speaker 1: the road headed towards North Carolina, and we had some

1373
01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:41,160
Speaker 1: brands that had come up behind us, and they were

1374
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:44,200
Speaker 1: able to get block the road and get it turned

1375
01:25:44,320 --> 01:25:46,240
Speaker 1: and it went back up the mountain. They packed on

1376
01:25:46,280 --> 01:25:49,639
Speaker 1: a few dogs there and we got a tree. So

1377
01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:53,200
Speaker 1: we went down the road and came back up and Uh,

1378
01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:55,720
Speaker 1: I went up to the tree. It was up on

1379
01:25:55,920 --> 01:25:59,240
Speaker 1: sort of a steep face, and I was at the

1380
01:25:59,240 --> 01:26:01,760
Speaker 1: base of the tree, and Ben had been brought in

1381
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:05,439
Speaker 1: by my cousin Benny Laws and was with another man,

1382
01:26:05,479 --> 01:26:09,000
Speaker 1: I know Dolphins Cutaw. I was there. I know Bill

1383
01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:12,519
Speaker 1: Carter was there, and he was able to shoot the

1384
01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:15,960
Speaker 1: bear from the bottom and he shot it with uh.

1385
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:19,280
Speaker 1: My dad had bought a Marlin lever action and thirty

1386
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:22,800
Speaker 1: five Remington was his first rifle he bought in the

1387
01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:26,240
Speaker 1: early seventies. And I don't know how many bad Daddy

1388
01:26:26,360 --> 01:26:28,960
Speaker 1: killed with that gun and several and so Ben was

1389
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:31,360
Speaker 1: able to kill his first bear with that same rifle.

1390
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:34,280
Speaker 1: And that was probably my favorite day I've ever been

1391
01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:38,519
Speaker 1: in the woods. Yeah, of any any hunting I've ever done.

1392
01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:44,000
Speaker 1: Just because my grandfather, me and now my son, we're

1393
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:47,519
Speaker 1: all there together, you know, hunting the same dogs you

1394
01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:52,400
Speaker 1: know that I grew up with. That's great. That's great. Hey,

1395
01:26:52,439 --> 01:26:55,120
Speaker 1: thank you so much for hosting me the last two days.

1396
01:26:55,520 --> 01:26:57,080
Speaker 1: I know if we'd, if I'd been able to stay

1397
01:26:57,120 --> 01:26:59,960
Speaker 1: a bit a little bit longer, we'd probably would have

1398
01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:02,800
Speaker 1: better two days. It's not much time, ye, thank you

1399
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:06,680
Speaker 1: so much for having us. You can really impress just

1400
01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:10,240
Speaker 1: everything you guys are doing. So Hey, thanks for listening

1401
01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:15,280
Speaker 1: to the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. Check out Bear Hunting Magazine.

1402
01:27:15,280 --> 01:27:18,040
Speaker 1: We're the only print Bear Hunting magazine in the world

1403
01:27:18,320 --> 01:27:23,080
Speaker 1: where our twentieth year Yeah, that's great. Yeah, coming into

1404
01:27:23,080 --> 01:27:27,280
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, we actually haven't well it's the it's the

1405
01:27:27,680 --> 01:27:31,679
Speaker 1: it's the nineteen volume, but the twenty into the twentieth

1406
01:27:31,760 --> 01:27:35,840
Speaker 1: year Barren Magazine. And in this January February issue, which

1407
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:40,160
Speaker 1: we got to print three days ago, that's why I

1408
01:27:40,200 --> 01:27:41,680
Speaker 1: was able to come on this hunt. I had to

1409
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:44,240
Speaker 1: get it to print, went to print on Monday. Is

1410
01:27:44,240 --> 01:27:49,320
Speaker 1: the story of Charleton's Houston Valley Cub, which was dog

1411
01:27:49,400 --> 01:27:52,720
Speaker 1: that just passed away a month ago, and we did

1412
01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:56,120
Speaker 1: a legendary barhound article on one of these Houston Valley

1413
01:27:56,120 --> 01:28:00,240
Speaker 1: dogs that was being and Tracy's one of their one

1414
01:28:00,280 --> 01:28:04,360
Speaker 1: of their favorite hounds, and just uh so, anyway, there's

1415
01:28:04,360 --> 01:28:06,040
Speaker 1: an article about that. You'll be able to read more

1416
01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:10,320
Speaker 1: and uh so check out Barony Magazine, check out our

1417
01:28:10,360 --> 01:28:14,040
Speaker 1: YouTube channel as always saying keep the wild places wild

1418
01:28:14,080 --> 01:28:15,360
Speaker 1: because that's where the bears live.