1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Our birth chart in particular, is this living map, and 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: it orients us back home to each other when we 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: feel lost. It reminds us of the tools that we 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 1: already have within us in a world that encourages and 5 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: bates us to think we're incomplete and inadequate, and that 6 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: if we just get more success, if we just get 7 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: more fit, if we just find our ideal boyfriend or partner, 8 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: if we just get that house or that job or 9 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: that promotion, then will somehow be unlocked. And it can 10 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: offer us a really essential reminder that we are part 11 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: of something bigger. 12 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 2: From Futuro Media and PRX, it's Latino Usay. I'm Maria 13 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: Josa today a conversation with Issa Nakazawa. She's the host 14 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 2: and resident astrologer of Futuro Studio's new show Stars and 15 00:00:51,920 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 2: Stars with Esa Okay, dear listener, Today, we have something, 16 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 2: you know, pretty special, something we don't normally do here 17 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 2: at Latino Usay. We're going to talk about astrology. 18 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: Now. 19 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 2: Astrology has a massive following in today's pop culture and 20 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 2: really throughout history, and it's especially popular among Latinos Latina's 21 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:24,479 Speaker 2: latinx Latine folks. We all know the astrology celebrity Walter 22 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 2: Mercado who dominated the airwaves for decades. 23 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 3: Then at a Momento whist Demi, she embraced pass mucha pas, mucho, mucho, mucho. 24 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 2: Abor And so that's why we at Futuro have created 25 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 2: Stars and Stars with Lisa. It's a podcast hosted by 26 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 2: astrologer Lisa Nakazawa and that we created in collaboration with 27 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 2: Stitcher Podcasts. On each episode, Lisa speaks with one of 28 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 2: today's most talented artists, thinkers, musicians, people like Aja Monnet, 29 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 2: w Kmao, bel Gia Dolentino, Rock Sane Gay. For example, 30 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 2: she sits down to read their birth charts and discuss 31 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 2: how that affects their work and how they move through 32 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 2: the world. After the readings, ESA's guests often feel more 33 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 2: empowered and in tune with their innermost desires, and maybe 34 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 2: listeners do too. Based in Oakland, California, Issa grew up 35 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:36,839 Speaker 2: in an Urduwaiyan Japanese household. She started studying astrology more 36 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 2: seriously in twenty eighteen and took the leap to cultivate 37 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 2: her own client practice in twenty twenty. Issa comes to 38 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: us today to show us how we are in charge 39 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 2: of our own lives and destinies, and yet how we 40 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 2: can use astrology to enhance and understand ourselves more than ever. 41 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 2: She also prepared a surprise for me, a sure reading 42 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 2: of my birth chart, which is something that I've never 43 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 2: had done before publicly or professionally. So I'm pretty excited 44 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 2: to share it with you. But first, let's take a 45 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 2: moment to get to know Lisa a little bit more. 46 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: Welcome to Latino, Usa, Issa. 47 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: Wow, thank you so much for having me. It's really 48 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: a dream and a pleasure. 49 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 4: Thank you. 50 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 2: Oh, I love your show. I listened to it. It's 51 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 2: like a soothing show for me. I listened to it 52 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 2: when I'm at the airport. 53 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, a great place to listen to something about the stars. 54 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. 55 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: It's sad though, and also because I don't like being 56 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 2: at airports, and so I'm just like, oh, I'm just 57 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 2: going to be here with Esa and her friends learning 58 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 2: about astrology. But I have to preface by saying that 59 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 2: I'm a child of the seventies. I grew up in 60 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 2: a moment when astrology it was all part of what 61 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 2: I would say was counterculture. Yeah, in the sixties and seventies, 62 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 2: it was an act of rebellion. There was a civil 63 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 2: rights battle that was happening, and there was the pressure 64 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: for the women's movement. You had the Vietnam War, and 65 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 2: then you had this whole other thing happening in the 66 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 2: arts and in spirituality, and in spirituality, a lot of 67 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 2: it was revolving around Horoscope's astrology astronomy. But let me 68 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: start with you, Esa, So how did you get into 69 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 2: it all? 70 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean everything you just shared was I feel 71 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: like chismic, because I think that's a really appropriate context 72 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: setting for me, because I do feel like my initial 73 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: draw to astrology had everything to do with being a 74 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: lifelong activist, and so I've been studying it for a while. 75 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: I think I was really yearning for a new symbolic language, 76 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: and I had been an activist at quite a young age, 77 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: and I think I was beginning to be introduced to 78 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: other elements like afrofuturism through Octavia Butler and Sun Raw 79 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: and I was becoming more intrigued by the kinds of 80 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: identities and systems that I could weave into my own 81 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,799 Speaker 1: und nderstanding, whether it's political, economic, or social, in which 82 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,799 Speaker 1: I was confirming that we are made up of star stuff, 83 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: and that precisely a lot of my work and my 84 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: curiosities are interested in this in contraction between the infinite 85 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,359 Speaker 1: and the particular. I was also running up against the 86 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: limitations of the activist spaces that I'd been in and 87 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: taken very seriously. But I felt like there was often 88 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: an urgency culture and constant responding to the conditions, which 89 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: on the one hand, of course makes total sense, and 90 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 1: on the other hand, felt this exhaustion and fatigue of 91 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 1: the lack of imagination in my own life, in my 92 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: own thinking. My identity is very tied to constantly doing Well. 93 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 4: You're the child of immigrants. 94 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, my mom is from Uruguay and my father's 95 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: Japanese American. 96 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that we have so much to do gene 97 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 2: that we carry. But before we get into your story, 98 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 2: which I'm fascinated by, so your activism. What kind of 99 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: activism were you doing and how did you get involved 100 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 2: in the activism because it seems like that was all 101 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 2: consuming and that that was the thing that actually led 102 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 2: you to astrology. 103 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: I think it started young. You know, I was always 104 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: trying to search for answers, and I was more led 105 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: by the questions I looked Japanese of all my sisters. 106 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: So I was always trying to figure out our family history, 107 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 1: which is punctuated with a lot of silences and fragments, 108 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 1: like a lot of US and so I started looking 109 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: into Japanese American history. With internment camps, I started to 110 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: hear my mother's stories of the US backed military dictatorship 111 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 1: in her home country of Uruguay, and that kind of 112 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: led me really intuitively to understanding what was underneath the 113 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: US empire and forces of colonialism. But it actually wasn't 114 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: too abstract, you know. I was like really a young 115 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: voice of anti war. I grew up right in nine 116 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: to eleven, so there was a lot of like very 117 00:06:55,160 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: tangible movements against policing, immigrant communities and xenophobia. There's also 118 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: like a lot of movements that were issues that I 119 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: didn't really fully understand at the time, but I knew 120 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: needed to be addressed, you know. But of course I 121 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: was like thirteen to eighteen, so it's like there's so 122 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: many different arms and tentacles to my activism. But I 123 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: think I was always trying to understand the constellation of 124 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: forces that were at play in the lives of a 125 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: lot of my friends. But honestly, I was also really 126 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: really interested in performativity of race, gender, and class. So 127 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: there was always a lot of different interests that I had. 128 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: But I think all of it stems from lived experience. 129 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: I don't think it's just like theoretical abstraction. I think 130 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: you're a young person trying to maneuver, you know, in 131 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: your body, and along the way, you stumble upon other 132 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: people who have similar questions and you go from there. 133 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 2: I've never met anybody who is Japanese and Uruwayan, and 134 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 2: so the way you spoke about US imperialism like off 135 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 2: country and internally is deep issa, honestly, and it does, 136 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 2: I think give you a particular eye in But there's 137 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: also this notion about your need for creativity, and I 138 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 2: think that what we're living through right now in this 139 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 2: country actually is such a lack of creativity. 140 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 3: Right. 141 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: All of this leads me to the question about your 142 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 2: own lineage as an astrologist, right, and again I know 143 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 2: just a very little bit, but I have heard Pajaro 144 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 2: a little bird told me that you come from a 145 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 2: long line of aquarians. Yes, so your family was like, yeah, 146 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 2: he said, totally go into estro Rohilla like that definitely 147 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 2: is the next place for your radical activism is estro 148 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 2: were they just like, oh my god, Lisa, what is this? 149 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 2: So what was your family's relationship to astrology? 150 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 3: Yeah? 151 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: I mean I'm so lucky, you know, like my parents 152 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: are both wizards and weirdos. And I think that's what 153 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: the Wink of Aquarius says to me for other astrology 154 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: lovers out there, is that I think both of my 155 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: parents come from a long line of interruption. And what 156 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: does interruption require other than generativity, creativity, and a certain 157 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: kind of imagination. Right, So, like my mom leaves her 158 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: home country because she's forced to. My father's family is 159 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: interrupted and moved from the West Coast and forced to 160 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: live in Chicago. And so I think both of my 161 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: family members, I would say, I come from a family 162 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: of translators. My mother was literally a translator in the 163 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 1: courts and my father was a social practice architect. And 164 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 1: so I think both of my family members thought astrology 165 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: was quite intuitive for me. 166 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 2: So I have to interrupt you because I need to 167 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 2: know when I say, you come from a long line 168 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 2: of aquarians. So I'm that person who doesn't really know. Yeah, 169 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 2: so what does that mean to come from a long 170 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 2: line of Aquarians. 171 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, so Aquarius is an air sign, and so it 172 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: does mean that I come from a family culture of ideas. 173 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,719 Speaker 1: We are a family that exchanges through ideas more than 174 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: we traffic in emotions, which you can imagine comes with 175 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: its own intimacy issues. It also means that we come 176 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: from a lineage of outsiders. Aquarius is an outsider sign 177 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: even though it presides over community and the people. And 178 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: that's the inherent paradox of Aquarius is that it's the 179 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: only child archetype at the same time that it deals 180 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: with the people. So Aquarians oftentimes need space, whether that's 181 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: literal alone time or whether that's time away from the 182 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: people to create. So if you're a painter, if you're 183 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: a writer an activist, you might need solitude in order 184 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: to recharge and tend to your ideas. So that's what 185 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: it really means. It means that I come from a 186 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,439 Speaker 1: family whose love language is in the realm of the idea. 187 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 4: Ooh, I love that. 188 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 2: So you knew, of course, And in a conversation about 189 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 2: astrology and the Latino Latina Latino LATINX community, Yeah, that, 190 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 2: of course we were going to have to ask about 191 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 2: Walter Mercado obvious. Now if you don't know who Walter is, 192 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 2: Gado is, I'm sorry, Like what a loss in your life? 193 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: And lib. 194 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 2: Well, what happened with Gumericado is that he would give 195 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 2: on the TV show. I think it was maybe ten 196 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 2: seconds for each signario saario. 197 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 4: And you would listen to it. 198 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 2: You'd be like, oh my god, he's right, or or 199 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 2: this happened, Oh my god, by the way, wearing the 200 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 2: most fabulous outfits ever and loops capes and poses and 201 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 2: makeup and hairstyle and jewelry just over the top, and 202 00:11:45,440 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 2: then he would sign offre pas pas. 203 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 4: Did you Walter? 204 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 2: And was he something of an inspiration or when you 205 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 2: first saw him, were you like in Sediov. 206 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't grow up with him in like a 207 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: deep way, but I've found it very fascinating that him 208 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: and I have some similarities in our actual chart. We're 209 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: both Taurus rising, and Taurus is a sign of adornment 210 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 1: and it's ruled by the planet of love, which is Venus. 211 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:23,839 Speaker 1: And so I think that Walter and I are both 212 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: dripping for sure in the gold and the jewelry. But 213 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: for me, I love the documentary in much and I 214 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: thought it did a really good job of showing the 215 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: complexity at play where Walter in a sense retained a 216 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: level of innocence in his spirit. But I also think 217 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: that documentary and the Life of Walter also has some 218 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,199 Speaker 1: cautionary tales around astrology because there's so many of us. 219 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: I think maybe all of us on some level are 220 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: in need of a dose of hope or some sort 221 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: of good news. And I think astrology and horoscope astrology, 222 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: while they're really juicy and fun, I think if we 223 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: attach too much of our sense of hope and fate 224 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: and we hinge too much of it upon our horoscopes, 225 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: in a sense, we kind of miss the opportunity to 226 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: have agency over our lives, where like, hopefully the stars 227 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: can do the work right. 228 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 2: Hopefully that little thing that I read that's you know, 229 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 2: like you're like may better come true instead of actually 230 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 2: living in the moment rightly. 231 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: But I do think there's so much joy and sweetness 232 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,959 Speaker 1: that Walter provides me in the world, and I would 233 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: never want to have that kind of cautionary tell eclipse 234 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: what I think Walter's legacy is, which is really bringing 235 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: that sense of possibility and wonder and these are things 236 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 1: that are possible now here and now, and they're not gimmicks, 237 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 1: and it's not just silly stuff. 238 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about the profession as 239 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 2: it were. Yeah, you were talking. You have this really 240 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 2: interesting critique around astrology, which is saying, you know what, 241 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 2: you can't actually hand your life over to this. You 242 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 2: actually have to participate in life and let astrology inform it. 243 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 2: You have a deep critique about these kind of magazine 244 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 2: type weekly horoscopes as opposed to a kind of more 245 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 2: formal reading of what astrology can do. 246 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I do love horoscopes, but I read very 247 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: particular ones, and I always read for my ascendant. So 248 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: your ascendant is what sets all of your houses, and 249 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: astrologers use houses to write the horoscopes, but you would 250 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: never know that because they're writing them as a narrative, right. 251 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: So I'm just encouraging you all to start to read 252 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: both your son and your ascendant for a fuller picture. 253 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: You know, I'm someone who's just wary in general. I 254 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: always say doubt is part of my practice, like doubt 255 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: is part of love. It's not about over kind of 256 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: indulging our questions, but befriending them, and I just really 257 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: believe in this dance between free will and fate, and 258 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: that dance is where everything delicious happens for me. And 259 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: so it's not that I'm anti. I'm more framing it 260 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: as an invitation to stay awake in anything, in fitness, 261 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: in meditation, I have the same philosophy in all of 262 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: my practices. 263 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 2: So I know you hear this all the time, Lisa, 264 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 2: and I'm an admirer that you're able. 265 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 4: To control yourself and not lose it when you hear. 266 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 2: This yet again, which is, oh, well, I'm a sagittarius. Oh, 267 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 2: I'm a Gemini, but I don't identify with anything that's 268 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 2: been told and therefore I don't believe in any of 269 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 2: this stuff. And you're just like, wait a second, You're 270 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 2: trying to tell people that this is much more involved 271 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 2: than just your birth month sign. 272 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that can be sometimes the 273 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: complicated thing with my job, right, because it's like this 274 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: really intense, dense lasagna. And I feel like astrology is 275 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: definitely not for everyone, precisely because sometimes they're trying to 276 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: grasp that they're not just their sun sign. And then 277 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: I introduce houses and then I introduce aspects and then 278 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: I introduce transits and they're like, oh, man, I quit. 279 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: So sometimes when you learn the texture of your house placements, 280 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: or you learn your moon sign or your sign, it 281 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: adds this kind of level of recognition. And that's my 282 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: favorite thing about the show, and reading for clients is 283 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: like watching the kind of slow unveiling of their chart 284 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: and seeing their eyes. When a new symbolic language helps 285 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: us locate things that we've had a hard time identifying, 286 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: it feels like freedom. It's like wow, like Issa or 287 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: Maria just gave me a new framework, a new way 288 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: of seeing, and that can feel like a rebirth even 289 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: though nothing happened technically. 290 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 2: We'll be back with more conversation with Isa Nakazawa about 291 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 2: astrology and how it can influence our lives, and she's 292 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 2: going to read by birth chart for the first time, 293 00:16:45,240 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: So stay with us, not the way I guess. Hey, 294 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 2: we're back and we're continuing our conversation with Lisa Nakazawa, 295 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 2: astrologer and host of Futuro Studio's new show Stars and 296 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 2: Stars with Esa. It's an innovative podcast where she reads 297 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,959 Speaker 2: the birth charts of artists and thinkers to talk about 298 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 2: how that affects their lives and their careers. One of 299 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 2: the things that I love about your show is you 300 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 2: really bring us in. You introduce us to people who 301 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 2: are these amazing artists and activists, and then we're just 302 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 2: on this journey with them. Issa, what do you want 303 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 2: people to take away from the show? What's your dream 304 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 2: of Like? Ah, they got that from Stars and Stars. 305 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: Oh, I love that question. Well, A, I really hope 306 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: to introduce some of my favorite artists and thinkers to everyone, 307 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: because I think that's such an act of generosity. I 308 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 1: know a lot of us are busy, and not everyone 309 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: has time to go searching and digging for the philosophers 310 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: and artists and poets and writers that are alive right 311 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: now now, and so I think, if anything, it's just 312 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: a celebration of the living artists that I think are 313 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: really shaping what's possible. And I've been getting an outpouring 314 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 1: of messages and that means so much to me to 315 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: hear what people are gleaning from the show, And it 316 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: feels like what I've observed is that it feels like 317 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: a companion, which I think has been such a special, 318 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: unintended consequence that the conversation itself feels like a friend 319 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,479 Speaker 1: that's kind of guiding you to tenderness and softness. And 320 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 1: I always say that my offerings are a love letter 321 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: back to the artists who've given me so much. Like 322 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: every time I read for an artist, I try and 323 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: write them a thank you note, like thank you for 324 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: allowing me to reciprocate, because it feels like a small 325 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: gesture of reciprocity for all that they've done. 326 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 2: I mean, you and I did not talk before this interview, 327 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 2: so I didn't know that you were going to say 328 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 2: it's I want to be like a companion. I was like, 329 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 2: but that's how the show feels to me. So I 330 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 2: really appreciate you bringing your voice and your activism and 331 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 2: your love of the arts, all of these things that 332 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 2: I agree with you. They keep us alive, and we 333 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 2: need a lot of things to keep us alive in 334 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 2: this country in this moment. And I'm totally with you 335 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 2: on the question of hope and humor. So things would 336 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 2: say that we're aligned, but obviously you know much more 337 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: than I. 338 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 4: Yes, so apparently you prepared like a mini reading. 339 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, I litening to the stars for you. 340 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 4: Oh my god, I'm so excited. 341 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: So the structure of the show is that I go 342 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: through the rising, the sun, moon, and then what's known 343 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: as the chart ruler, and then I kind of leave 344 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 1: it there. But in a private reading, it's a lot 345 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 1: less neat and so I will say, you know, for 346 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: my advanced astrology heads, the show is definitely astrology light. 347 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 1: Astrologers love drawing connections. We're big nerds, and there's actually 348 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: a lot of parallels between astrology, math, and science and astronomy. 349 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: So I think I really would question people who make 350 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: big assumptions about astrologers being these like woo woo interpreters, 351 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: because I'm like, there's some hardcore nerds and mathematicians up in. 352 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:02,679 Speaker 4: Hered it here. 353 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: Yeah you heard here. You're a rising sign, which it 354 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: sounds like you don't know. Is that correct? 355 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 4: I do not know my rising sign? 356 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: Oh my god, what an honor? Okay, well you're a 357 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: Virgo rising. 358 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 4: I have no idea what that means. Nothing. 359 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's incredible because Virgo is ruled by the 360 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: planet of communication, Mercury, and so it's not just the 361 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: planet of communication but processing, listening, engaging. Mercury is like 362 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: a trickster planet. That's all about communication, and so you'll 363 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: find that a lot of mercury ruled rising signs are 364 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: in communications in some ways. So that could be journalism 365 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: or poetry. And so when I saw you are a 366 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: mercury ruled sign, I was like, I mean, Maria, you 367 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: can't make this up. You can't make this up. Astrology 368 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: does what it does, it does, so, like I was saying, 369 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 1: so we know that you're Virgo rising. Virgo is an 370 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: Earth sign, and this is really key because this begins 371 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: this poetic story in your chart where you have this 372 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: beautiful conversation between water and earth. So this emotional intelligence 373 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: and depth with the actual grounded earthliness of this plane. 374 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: So it goes to what we were talking about, opening 375 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: up new worlds, but being very committed to the people 376 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: and the conditions of right here and right now, which 377 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 1: I think is a lot of your career. You know, 378 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: is like exposing and getting into the deep storytelling of 379 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: these times, but doing it in a way that is 380 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: very emotionally intense and powerful, but yet it's always interested 381 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: in justice and truth and in the details. Definitely, your 382 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: actual mercury is in cancer, but it sits in the 383 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: eleventh House of the people and so I think that's 384 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: really key to this conversation of your chart, where I 385 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: think a lot of the things that you do have 386 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,439 Speaker 1: this commitment to the people and cancer mercury is so 387 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 1: moving to me because you also have your son in cancer, 388 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: and I talk about this a lot on the show. 389 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've picked up on it, but 390 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 1: I really like to think of cancer as the memory 391 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: keepers and the emotional historians. And the reason I say 392 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 1: emotional historian is because cancer is a water sign, so 393 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: it's more clairvoyant and intuitive and nurturing. It's not just 394 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: thinking about the tyranny of facts. It's thinking about how 395 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: when we sing a song, when we share a poem, 396 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: when we tell a story around the campfire, that that's 397 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: how we're also preserving like our non renewable resources as communities. 398 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: And I think that you're such an example of that. 399 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 4: Thank you. 400 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: I've been following all of your recent coverage where you're 401 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: interviewing students and you're really giving the microphone to them. 402 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 2: Let's up people, Good morning, winos VS from Columbia University, 403 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 2: and I actually have a student who's going to answer 404 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 2: just a couple of brief questions. 405 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 4: Hello, how are you feeling. What's the latest update. 406 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, So the atmosphere, especially last night as the deadline approach, 407 00:22:58,040 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 1: was a lot of fear because the university has not 408 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: and communicating very well, and you're like allowing them to 409 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: express their rage their grief and you're sitting with that grief, 410 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: and you're not viewing that grief as somehow in opposition 411 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: to journalistic integrity. On the contrary, I think you're someone 412 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: on the ground right now who's saying, let's pass the mic, 413 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 1: let's be really careful and intentional with who we're giving 414 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: our microphones and our airtime to. And so I see 415 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: that again, this theme and this braiding of the earthly 416 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: and the waters and the intelligence of that combination living 417 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: through you. Does any of this resonate? 418 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 4: Honestly, I'm freaking out. I mean, I'm just. 419 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,239 Speaker 2: The way you've talked about kind of how astrology and 420 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 2: my signs are informing what I do. Yes, then we 421 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 2: can move in the world with this other conceptual project, right, 422 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 2: and you can see that for me, I'm like, oh 423 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 2: my god, Well, sadly, now, I just want to call 424 00:23:58,560 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 2: Lisa every week. 425 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: That's you're wanting to say. 426 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 2: Only for Mariam just live in the moment. You're just 427 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 2: going to say, live in the moment. 428 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 4: You got it. It's all good in the low. 429 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: One of the other things I want to offer is 430 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 1: that your moon is in Pisces at the opposite sign 431 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: of your ascendant is known as your descendant. 432 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 2: You actually brought up my husband, yeah, and you said 433 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 2: you tried to find his birth date and his birth 434 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 2: date is March ninth. 435 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 1: Oh, March ninth, Oh Pisces. Wait, and you said, I 436 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: just asked. 437 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 2: That, and you said, wait, is your husband. I bet 438 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 2: he's a Pisces because he's an artist. And I was like, 439 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 2: little does she know? So you actually got my husband correct, 440 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 2: he is a Pisces. 441 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah. I was smiling because I was doing my 442 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,959 Speaker 1: research and a lot of the times when astrologers are 443 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: looking for compatibility, they actually look at the rising sign 444 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: and the opposite sign of the rising sign is known 445 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: as your and the descendant is. I like to consider 446 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,239 Speaker 1: it kind of the lost self for the companion. And 447 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,400 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, your lost self. Your other half 448 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: is in Pisces. And then I saw your husband's a painter, 449 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, I wonder, I wonder if 450 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: your other half is a Piscing. 451 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 2: Oh my god, well that might that might explain why 452 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 2: we've been together for thirty four years only maybe yes, four. 453 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 4: Years together as a couple. It's kind of extraordinary. 454 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, And a lot of astrologers view the descendant as 455 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: a place to look for the qualities that complement us right, 456 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 1: precisely because it's our opposite. And so you also have 457 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: that energy in your own make up, your moon sign, 458 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 1: which is your innermost desires. You're unconscious, which is such 459 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: a beautiful place to have it in Pisces because Pisces 460 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: also rules this unconscious, this collective unconscious energy. Virgo can 461 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,719 Speaker 1: be very locked into the details and oftentimes to its detriment. 462 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: Virgo can be the critic, but that critical energy can 463 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 1: also be aimed at itself, and Pisces is them. It's 464 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: the sign of compassion, but it precisely needs to be 465 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: tethered to Virgo, right, and you have that conversation in 466 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: yourself because when Pisces doesn't have a tether, it's in 467 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: its own kind of mythic time where it can easily 468 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: become subsumed in its oceanic waves. So I'm curious how 469 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 1: that relationship is between you, and I don't know your 470 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: partner's chart, so I don't know what other elements he has. 471 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: But do you feel like you're drawn to people who 472 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: have that kind of like poetic center or that compassionate 473 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: center that guides them and orients their life. 474 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 2: Definitely the poetic center. Definitely attracted to people who are 475 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 2: infinitely creative. So for me, what ties me to my 476 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 2: husband is his artwork, is the fact that he can 477 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 2: be infinitely creative. And I can come home after a 478 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 2: day of interviewing people who are in the worst moment 479 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 2: of their life or back lean something really challenging, and 480 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 2: then I come and I feel completely inspired by what 481 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 2: my husband has done. At the same time, Esa, I'm 482 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 2: old enough now that I understand that what I do 483 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 2: and how I do it is actually there's something mystical 484 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 2: about it, Yes, but always learning from every moment in life, 485 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 2: you know, living in a place of gratitude. You're showing 486 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 2: us how to live with gratitude, and you're not saying, look, 487 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 2: my life has been easy. Yeah, but there's a way 488 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 2: to move that. Ultimately, things do I don't know, what 489 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 2: do you think when people say they do fall into place? 490 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 2: Do they or do you think that we make them 491 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 2: fall into place. 492 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: I think I'm probably more on that side. I mean, yeah, 493 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 1: maybe I'm much. 494 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,880 Speaker 2: I love from an astrologer. See that's what I love. Right, 495 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 2: you're an astrologer. But you're saying, use your own voice 496 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 2: in your own life. Yeah, believe in your own power. 497 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 2: Believe in your own power. And in that sense, I 498 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 2: think that's our common belief, right, is that the people 499 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 2: who are listening to us are the people who actually 500 00:27:58,320 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 2: have extraordinary power. 501 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean everything you said gave me chills. So also, 502 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 1: Virgo and Pisce is one thing because they're opposite signs, 503 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: they share some core energies and they both like to 504 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 1: be of service. And I couldn't help but think about 505 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: that when I was hearing you speak. So it's never 506 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: just about your own career, right, And gen Z and 507 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,360 Speaker 1: the younger folks are calling all of us in. It 508 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: can't just be about your own career advancement. It can't 509 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: just be about your own desires. As Issa, we have 510 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: different signs in our chart, But then I'm all Scorpio, 511 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: and Scorpio is similar to Virgo. We want the truth 512 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: and we're not satisfied with anything less we're not happy 513 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: with the less of two evils. Virgo and Scorpio are 514 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: not gonna be content with anything that isn't precise and honest. 515 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: Why because you can't really build a solid foundation on 516 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: half truths. And I think we really need to trust 517 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: ourselves across the board right now. Humans are built for 518 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: generative tension. We know how to do it, we know 519 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: how to do it well. And I don't think we 520 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: need to fear tough conversations with ourselves and each other. 521 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: And I actually think the more that we think we 522 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: need handholding and comfort and like these illusions of safety, 523 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: the more delicate and precarious things are going to become, 524 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: not just at the scale of society, but individually in 525 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: our own relationships. How do we kind of start to 526 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: break down isolation, not just among each other but within ourselves. 527 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: How do we reintegrate these parts of ourselves? And astrology 528 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: helps me do that. It helps remind me that I'm 529 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: made up of a constellation, and that whenever I feel 530 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: stuck or whenever I feel doomed, that actually my birth 531 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: chart begs to differ. And so I really resonated with 532 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: this kind of dance between the mystical and the truth. 533 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 2: So Esa, I guess finally people are going to be 534 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 2: listening to the show and the bigger message not only 535 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 2: is that it's fun and it's a companion, but what 536 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 2: do you want us to learn about how astrology can 537 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 2: help us in our lives and help us find our 538 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 2: way as you said in a complicated moment in a 539 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 2: complicated country, and you're saying, but there is a way 540 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 2: to use astrology to inform your path. 541 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think for me, our birth chart in particular, 542 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: is this living map, and it orients us back home 543 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: to each other when we feel lost. It reminds us 544 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: of the tools that we already have within us in 545 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: a world that encourages and bates us to think we're 546 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: incomplete and inadequate, and that if we just get more success, 547 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 1: if we just get more fit, if we just find 548 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: our ideal boyfriend or partner, if we just get that 549 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: house or that job or that promotion, then will somehow 550 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: be unlocked. It can put you in a practice of 551 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: accountability when you're feeling tempted to enable the worst that 552 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: resides within all of us, And it can offer for 553 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: us a really essential reminder that we are part of 554 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: something bigger. All of these things, you know, are connected 555 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: through something tangible that we can touch and something that 556 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: we could never express in language. I think that the 557 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: mystics and ancestors that came before us have left us 558 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: quite a bit of information and material and practices, so 559 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: that in these moments we're actually not alone. And I 560 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: hope that astrology is a reminder that we don't walk alone. 561 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: I did write this quote from Carl Sagan, who was 562 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: not a believer in astrology. He was an astronomer, but 563 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: he said, quote, the nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium 564 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon 565 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: in our apple pies were made in the interiors of 566 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: collapsing stars. We are made of star stuff. And I 567 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: just love Carl. I think he just kind of reminds 568 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: me all the time that this is not a metaphor. 569 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: It's not like we are kind of like stars, you know, 570 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: we are. 571 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining me on Latino USA. 572 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 2: It's been an absolute pleasure, And thank you for reading 573 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 2: Mike Chart. I so appreciate it. 574 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: Yes, thank you so much. Maria. 575 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 2: You can listen to new episodes of Stars and Stars 576 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 2: with Lisa every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts to 577 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 2: learn more about your favorite artists and thinkers and how 578 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 2: their birth charts informed their lives and their careers. This 579 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 2: episode was produced by Gini Montalgo. It was edited by 580 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 2: Marta Martinez. It was mixed by Andy Bosnak. The Latino 581 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 2: USA team includes Victoria Estrada, Jessica Ellis, Renaldo Lanos Jr. 582 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,479 Speaker 2: Andrea Lopez Gruzsado, Lori mar Marquez, Mike Sargent, Nor Saudi 583 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 2: and Nancy Trujillo. Panileiramidez is our co executive producer. Our 584 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 2: director of engineering is Stephanie Lebau. Our senior engineer is 585 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 2: Julia Caruso. Engineering help this week from JJ Krubin. Our 586 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 2: marketing manager is Louis Luna. Our theme music was composed 587 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 2: by Sanya Roubinos. I'm your host and co executive producer 588 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 2: Mariao Posa. 589 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 4: Join us again on our next episode. 590 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 2: In the meantime, I'll see you on all of our 591 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 2: social media, especially on Eastagadam Jaques Chao. 592 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 3: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Ford Foundation, 593 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 3: working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide. 594 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 3: The Heising Simons Foundation Unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities. More 595 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 3: at hsfoundation dot org and the John D. And Catherine T. 596 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 3: MacArthur Foundation. 597 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 2: Conversation with Isan Nakasa Nope