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Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of Papa's Perspective, part of the

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Speaker 1: Giants Huddle podcast, brought to you by Bob's Discount Furniture.

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Speaker 1: Talking about the Giants on the road against Washington in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six. They were called the Redskins and the

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Speaker 1: Giants in Washington had a heck of a rivalry. And

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Speaker 1: we're joined by Bart Oates, who's part of that Giant

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl team in nineteen eighty six. And Bart, thank

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Speaker 1: you first for joining us here on the podcast. And

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Speaker 1: let's go back in time a little bit here nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty six, you and the Giants in Washington had this

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Speaker 1: heated rivalry. You had beaten them at home on Monday

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Speaker 1: Night football, and you went through this wild stretch. You

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Speaker 1: had the Bobby Johnson catch in Minnesota and the comeback

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Speaker 1: win you had to win at Giant Stadium against the

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Speaker 1: Broncos with George Martin getting the tip and the pick six,

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Speaker 1: and then the Bavaro game. You go out to San

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Speaker 1: Francisco and you beat the Niners twenty one seventeen. So

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Speaker 1: now you're going down to RFK State. You're playing Washington.

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Speaker 1: Both teams come into the game at eleven and two

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Speaker 1: and this pretty much is whoever wins this game wins

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Speaker 1: the division. What was it like going down to play

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Speaker 1: at RFK Stadium during that era?

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Speaker 2: We loved playing down there. It was just I love

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Speaker 2: the environment. I loved the fans. I thought the fans

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Speaker 2: the great fans, very vocal, but you know, they were

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Speaker 2: not obnoxious as like some of the other fans in

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Speaker 2: our division might have been. And it was it was

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Speaker 2: a grass field. It was soft compared to what we

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Speaker 2: had at the time and at the Meadowlands Stadium, and

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Speaker 2: so it was just a comfortable environment. It was something

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Speaker 2: we really enjoyed playing there. We played there.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's talk a little bit about you know, the

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Speaker 1: challenge that you guys faced as an offensive line. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, they had Charles Mann and they had you know,

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Speaker 1: Dexter Manley and Dave Butz. I mean they had a

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Speaker 1: heck of a defense. Joe Gibbs team did, and it

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Speaker 1: was always a battle. What were some of the keys

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Speaker 1: to playing against that Washington team.

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Speaker 2: It was the front. I mean they had, you know,

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Speaker 2: the linebackers were serviceable, but they weren't all stars at

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Speaker 2: the time. You know, good guys. Neil local Witz was

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Speaker 2: the middle linebacker smart KG, but not somebody you would say, hey,

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Speaker 2: he's going to dominate a game. But those guys up front,

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Speaker 2: Darryl Grant and then Butts in the middle, they were

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Speaker 2: just just two really good defensive tackles, and there's defensive

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Speaker 2: ends with man and many were just tremendously productive. And

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Speaker 2: so it was those, you know, our focus was really

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Speaker 2: on those front four guys. And then you know, they

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Speaker 2: didn't do a lot of blitzing because they you know,

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Speaker 2: they tended to get a lot of pressure just with

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Speaker 2: those four guys, they do a lot of twisting and stunts,

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Speaker 2: and you know, they just went man up on us

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Speaker 2: and said four five and felt that they could win

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Speaker 2: at that. You know, of course you had Darryl Green

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Speaker 2: as the first ballot Hall of Famer and then other

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Speaker 2: really good defensive backs, so they really didn't need to

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Speaker 2: do much other than just played straight up football. So

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Speaker 2: we knew what they were gonna do. You know, they'd

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Speaker 2: shift around a little bit in the middle and change angles,

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Speaker 2: but it wasn't a real complex and not something you'd

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Speaker 2: find with Bears. For instance, when that forty six or

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Speaker 2: some of these other guys who run the overs and unders.

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Speaker 2: So it was we knew what we had, We knew

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Speaker 2: what we were going to get, and it's just a

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Speaker 2: matter of lining up and executing.

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Speaker 1: You guys matched up well against them too, because you

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Speaker 1: had a lot of success against Washington despite the fact

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Speaker 1: that they had a really good team and would go

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Speaker 1: on and win the Super Bowl the following year. But

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Speaker 1: as he's saying, boxing sometimes styles make fights. Did you

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Speaker 1: guys feel when you stepped on the field with them

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Speaker 1: with all the respect that you had for them as

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Speaker 1: a team, but that for you had the upper hand

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Speaker 1: with them?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no question. Yes, yeah, we thought we matched

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Speaker 2: up well with them. Our defense matched up well against

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Speaker 2: their offense, and they were very productive offense and offense

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Speaker 2: that through the ball, they could run the ball well,

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Speaker 2: good offensive line, right, I mean, guys that were all

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Speaker 2: Pro Bowl players. So it was it was a team

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Speaker 2: that you know, from our defense, which was a bunch

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Speaker 2: of Pro Bowl players, you know, that was the strength

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Speaker 2: of our team. And what we did is we were

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Speaker 2: not a team that was going to go out there,

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Speaker 2: particularly offensively, that we were just going to run the

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Speaker 2: score up. We just we weren't a scoring team. That's

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Speaker 2: not what we did. We were a team that just

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Speaker 2: we managed the game. You know, we'd come off and

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Speaker 2: Bill's philosophy was just don't lose the game. You know,

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Speaker 2: we'd come after a turnover, would you know, would run

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Speaker 2: over this to come over the sidelines. Bill gather us

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Speaker 2: all together and you'd say, guys, I don't need you

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Speaker 2: to win the game, just don't lose it for me,

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Speaker 2: you know. And it was that was his you know,

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Speaker 2: but it made sense, right, It was it was you know,

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Speaker 2: we knew we had a good kicking game with Robel

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Speaker 2: and Sean Lindetta punting and kicking roll of that game

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Speaker 2: was perfect. One field goal, three p a t. Sean

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Speaker 2: punted six times, which is quite a bit, but it's

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Speaker 2: because we only had We had one turnover with the

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Speaker 2: first possession and that was it. That was the only

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Speaker 2: turnover we had and then went a sack I think

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Speaker 2: maybe the second possession, and that was the only sack,

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Speaker 2: sack and turnover. And so for you know, for most

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Speaker 2: of the game, they didn't get pressure on Phil. We

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Speaker 2: didn't run the ball particularly well, but that's not you know,

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Speaker 2: we knew we weren't. I mean, they played up pretty

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Speaker 2: tight and that was a good front seven. So we

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Speaker 2: started out throwing the ball. I mean, here we were

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Speaker 2: a running team, and we I think we had the

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Speaker 2: first four or five plays in a row. We're passing plays.

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Speaker 2: We which was I mean, I remember keep calling passing plays.

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Speaker 2: He called them, Hud, I'm like, we don't do this.

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Speaker 2: Who's calling these plays? Parcels must not be listening.

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Speaker 1: He let Erhard go that day. But wasn't that The

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Speaker 1: brilliance of your team, especially that eighty sixteen was your

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Speaker 1: team's ability to adapt as needed. I mean, Joe didn't

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Speaker 1: run for a lot of yards that game, but there

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Speaker 1: was a balance with the twenty two runs. And even

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Speaker 1: though you didn't get the yards per carry you wanted.

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Speaker 1: It's set up Phil to be able to throw the

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Speaker 1: ball to Bavarro for over one hundred yards and mcakey

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Speaker 1: to have that clutch touchdown catch to kind of put

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Speaker 1: the game away. But you guys did what you needed

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Speaker 1: to do that week to win the game exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that was that was it. We were not

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Speaker 2: a team like you said. You just mentioned all those

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Speaker 2: games in Minnesota and San Francisco. Right, we won that

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Speaker 2: eleven two record. There was not a lot of difference

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Speaker 2: in points scored and points against because we didn't. We

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Speaker 2: didn't just run the score up. It wasn't who we were.

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Speaker 2: We just we had a seven point lead going in

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Speaker 2: the fourth quarter. We were just gonna build u saying,

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Speaker 2: nobody's gonna score against my defense. So if I'm up seven,

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Speaker 2: I don't need to throw the ball and risk it.

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Speaker 2: Let's just play solid. Let's run the ball and if

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Speaker 2: we have to pump the ball, will put it. And

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Speaker 2: then we play field position. Somebody's not driving down the field.

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Speaker 2: They may kick a field goal, but they're not going

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Speaker 2: to score a touchdown. And you know what philosophy worked

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Speaker 2: really well that we were built for that.

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Speaker 1: What about the sort of the environment as that game

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Speaker 1: is wrapping up. I know all of your teammates and

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Speaker 1: Parcels has always talked about, you know, the silence in

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Speaker 1: RFK Stadium, because I remember being in that building while

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Speaker 1: it was still in existence, and how it would shake,

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Speaker 1: and you know, how the stands would actually move and

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Speaker 1: they could be loud, and you know, they would sing

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Speaker 1: the song and they had the hogs and all that

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Speaker 1: other stuff. But the silence at the end of the game.

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Speaker 1: What was your memory of that walking off the field.

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Speaker 2: It's you know that that is the best feeling when

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Speaker 2: you're at a place like that, when you're at an

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Speaker 2: opponent's home field and you don't hear the screaming, you

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Speaker 2: don't hear the applause. It's just this murmuring almost as

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Speaker 2: stupor if you will, that you know, the fans are

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Speaker 2: going like, how did this happen? You know, they were

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Speaker 2: eleven and two as well. I mean they were having

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Speaker 2: a great year and had a great year other than

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Speaker 2: you know, I mean those they were at that point,

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Speaker 2: they were eleven and three, and two of those losses

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Speaker 2: came against the Giants after that game. So it really

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Speaker 2: was that quality team, and they just weren't used to

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Speaker 2: They weren't used to losing, particularly in that net to fashion.

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Speaker 1: So now you got you got the upper hand, you

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Speaker 1: got the sweep on them, You've got two home games

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Speaker 1: coming up, you got Saint Louis Is coming into the building,

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Speaker 1: and then you're going to finish the season off with

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Speaker 1: the Packers where he actually did score fifty five points

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Speaker 1: in that game. What was the message from Parcels in

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Speaker 1: the locker room afterwards though, to was it to the

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Speaker 1: effect of, you know, we still haven't accomplished what we

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Speaker 1: need to accomplish.

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Speaker 2: We haven't done anything right. Beating the Redskins in necessary,

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Speaker 2: but it didn't finish it. It didn't help us get

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Speaker 2: to where we want to go. We knew after that

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Speaker 2: eighty five year that, you know, we were a good team.

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Speaker 2: We had players all throughout the team in every position

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Speaker 2: that could play, and that you know, we knew what

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Speaker 2: we wanted. We not just you know, we wanted to win,

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Speaker 2: win the conference, and win the super Bowl. You know,

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Speaker 2: we initially it was really about the conference. That's that

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Speaker 2: was where our focus really was. Let's win the conference,

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Speaker 2: so we have to do and then when we get

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Speaker 2: invited to the you know, to the super Bowl, that's

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Speaker 2: we'll worry about that at that point. But when win

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Speaker 2: the conference, and this was a step towards that, but

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Speaker 2: it didn't accomplish it.

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Speaker 1: So just keeping in on the Washington thread. Obviously, you

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Speaker 1: and Washington were the two best teams in the NFC

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Speaker 1: that year, along with San Francisco. But you get Washington

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Speaker 1: in Giant Stadium for the NFC Championship game. You know,

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Speaker 1: people always say it's hard to be the team three

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Speaker 1: times in one sea and I'm guessing that thought never

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Speaker 1: even crossed your mind that it's hard because you felt

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Speaker 1: like you owned them a little bit, didn't you.

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Speaker 2: No, No, Parcels would never let that happen. There was

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Speaker 2: no ownership there. It was like, you know, he preached that,

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Speaker 2: like guys, it never happens. Nobody ever beats a team

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Speaker 2: three times. And if he relax in, you know, just

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Speaker 2: a little bit, these guys and we knew they were good. Listen.

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Speaker 2: We beat them, but we didn't beat them by much.

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Speaker 2: And it was a dogfight our defense. I think in

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Speaker 2: that game, you know, on in December, that was what

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Speaker 2: we have six interceptions defense just and we still and

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Speaker 2: we we still only beat him by ten points. So

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Speaker 2: it was you know it was with six interceptions, you

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Speaker 2: think the team throws six interceptions, you should like you

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Speaker 2: should beat him by thirty points. So we knew that, Listen,

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Speaker 2: we had to play our best if we're going to

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Speaker 2: if we we faced him in the conference championship and.

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Speaker 1: You got him at a home, uh, brutal, brutal, brutal

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Speaker 1: weather conditions. Landetta kind of a great vindication for him,

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Speaker 1: considering what had happened the year before in Chicago, which

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Speaker 1: a lot of people forget that even though you lost

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Speaker 1: to the Bears and the score was what it was,

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Speaker 1: that game was a lot closer than I think people

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Speaker 1: remember the Chicago game like that. You guys had chances

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Speaker 1: in that eighty five game a little bit. What yeah

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Speaker 1: you did?

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Speaker 2: You must be talking to Phil because I still thinks

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Speaker 2: that toom like it must be on it did brainwash

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Speaker 2: me a little bit on that. Oh my goodness, that game.

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Speaker 2: Listen offensively, I'll just stall you up front. There was

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Speaker 2: no way we were. They dominated us, they kicked our fannies.

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Speaker 2: They they had a better scheme than us. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there was no way in the world. Do you know

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Speaker 2: what feels thinking when he thinks it was a close game.

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Speaker 1: I just he's brainwashed me. I gotta talk to you more,

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Speaker 1: all right. But for Landetta, for Landeta, yes, vivacation, because

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Speaker 1: he had a Pro Bowl game in that in that

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Speaker 1: NFC championship game, he hit it.

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Speaker 2: You know, we were so I was a snapper. I

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Speaker 2: was the punch snapper two in field goals and so

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Speaker 2: you know, so for me, I loved when he was

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Speaker 2: punning into the win because that meant I was snapping

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Speaker 2: with with the win. But he just you know, and

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Speaker 2: and it was keeping it low and keeping it tight spiral,

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Speaker 2: and you do that, he'll cut through the win just

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Speaker 2: and actually it even helps with that win in a

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Speaker 2: tight spiral, it'll actually hold it up. And so he had.

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Speaker 2: He was really tight that game.

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Speaker 1: And you guys are able to beat him. You shut

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Speaker 1: him out. It wasn't easy, but you kind of played

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Speaker 1: your brand of football right. You played complimentary football, Use

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Speaker 1: your run game, use your special teams. And then with

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Speaker 1: Lawrence Talon company, you're not losing.

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Speaker 2: Playfield position, don't turn the bowl over. Got a great defense,

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Speaker 2: teams are not going to run it down the field

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Speaker 2: on us. I mean we're talk about offensive redskins. The

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Speaker 2: forty nine ers. Nobody, nobody did that against our defense.

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Speaker 2: It just it didn't matter. We were too well prepared

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Speaker 2: and had too many good players, so we knew that

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Speaker 2: was going to happen. So offensively, it was just, you know,

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Speaker 2: put your blinders on, do your job, don't you know,

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Speaker 2: suck up your ego. You know, you know, you know

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Speaker 2: you're not going to go out there and run the

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Speaker 2: ball and pay you know, Simson, the only time sims

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Speaker 2: basketball for five hundred yards, we lost the game right

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Speaker 2: to the Bengals. So you know, we we we're not

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Speaker 2: going to run throw the ball, just don't turn it

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Speaker 2: over and play that field position and we we will win.

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Speaker 2: And that you know that that era that really happened.

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Speaker 1: So as as you reflect back on your career and

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Speaker 1: you think about your time as a Giant, and you know,

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Speaker 1: Giants fans obviously can't stand the teams in the division

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Speaker 1: you got, you must have some warm memories about Washington

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Speaker 1: because you beat them a whole heck of a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I said, I love, I love going down to Washington.

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Speaker 2: My my extual my in laws were living down there.

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Speaker 2: My father in law was working in Congress as a

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Speaker 2: legislative aid and so you know, we would go down there.

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Speaker 2: I got to see, you know, visit some family, and

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Speaker 2: so we would go down there quite a bit anyway.

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Speaker 2: So and I just loved I loved the whole environment,

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Speaker 2: Washington environment. And you know, like I said, we loved

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Speaker 2: the field, We loved the environment, we loved the fans.

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Speaker 2: We loved it when they were noise, we loved it

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Speaker 2: especially when they were kind of silent. So it was

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Speaker 2: just it was a good feeling. And we did like

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Speaker 2: I said, we did well.

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Speaker 1: Down there, And then just one final question, as you

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Speaker 1: kind of spin it forward to today's game, if you

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Speaker 1: look at like the trend from last season with you

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Speaker 1: being an offensive lineman and having to figure out all

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Speaker 1: these fronts and making the calls and working with Phil

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Speaker 1: and deciphering all that. You know, all the rules are

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Speaker 1: skewed for passing, and we see all these explosive passing numbers.

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Speaker 1: But did you like the trend that we saw last

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Speaker 1: season in the NFL a little bit where teams that

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Speaker 1: did commit to the run had a lot of success.

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Speaker 1: And I think last year, for the first time in

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Speaker 1: a long time, over the course of the season, we

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Speaker 1: had more teams have two hundred or more yard rushing

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Speaker 1: games than we had in like the previous eight years combined.

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Speaker 1: Where teams are starting to look at it and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: if they're going to go small and fast and speed

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Speaker 1: to cover everybody, let's go big and pound the heck

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Speaker 1: out of them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, smaller guys, you know, so they can get up

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Speaker 2: the field, pressure on the quarterback, you know, coverage, run

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Speaker 2: the ball. You know, it's a patient game, and it's

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Speaker 2: you know, it's that's where Parsales brilliance came in. He

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Speaker 2: just he was a patient coach. He's he looked at

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Speaker 2: it in a full game context for and instead of saying,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's we guys got to score points. If

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Speaker 2: if you're in a situation, you know, don't risk it,

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Speaker 2: get field position, play the field position. And you know,

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Speaker 2: when you have a team like we had, it worked,

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Speaker 2: It worked really well.

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Speaker 1: All right. We want to thank you for for a

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Speaker 1: couple of minutes taking us down memory land, especially the

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six and the Giant Washington rivalry, which was

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Speaker 1: a fun time for Giants fans, which helped give birth

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Speaker 1: to that first ever Super Bowl championship for the franchise.

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Speaker 1: We appreciate a couple of minutes, and thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us.

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Speaker 2: Hey, my pleasure, Bob, thank you.

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Speaker 1: That's Bartos reminiscing about the Giants in Washington nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: six clinch in the NFC East on this edition of

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Speaker 1: Popa's Perspective, part of the Giants Huddle podcast, brought to

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Speaker 1: you by Bob's Discount Furniture