1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: What does recovery look like when it's not designed for you? 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: I'm doctor and Zanga Harrison, and in season four of 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: Unaddictioned podcast, we're featuring black and brown guests sharing their 4 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 1: journeys through the unique barriers to recovery shaped by their identities. 5 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: These guests have not only defined recovery on their terms, 6 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: but they're also creating pathways and communities that can help 7 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: you or a loved one find recovery too. 8 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 2: So we ended our conversation last week with both of 9 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 2: us feeling like grieving grief feelings. So I wanted to 10 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 2: officially talk about an announcement for our listeners and then 11 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 2: pick your brain about some of your favorite moments of 12 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 2: the pod. 13 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: Oh man, how's it feel? Yeah, it's a mixture. So 14 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: we originally only intended to do two seasons. Remember when 15 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: we plan this out, we were like, we're going to 16 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: do two seasons of un Addictioned. We were going to 17 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: do the first six episode season going into the book 18 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: release January, and then do six episodes coming out of 19 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,479 Speaker 1: the book release. And then the conversations were so good 20 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 1: we were like, clearly we have to do another season. 21 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: But even after the second season, I was like, Jada, 22 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm so busy, Like I don't know 23 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: how I can keep doing this. And then you were like, 24 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: but we have so and so lined up and so 25 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: and so lined up, and I was like, obviously we 26 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: have to do season three. So then we did season 27 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: three and I was like, Jada, oh my god, I'm 28 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: so busy. I'm even busier than I was when we 29 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: were doing season one and two, so I don't think 30 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: there's any way we can continue to do this. And 31 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: then I think it was Katie who came on and 32 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: Laura and they both talked about the unique experience of 33 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: even finding out that recovery was for black people, and 34 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, Okay, we have to 35 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: do a season four to shine light on this experience. 36 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: And then Jessica Happy came through and season four became 37 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: black and brown, and I was like, Jada, oh my god, like, seriously, 38 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: I'm even busier than I once when we did season 39 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: three and two and one, And it's true, I am 40 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: unhealthily busy. And so I'm being like super intentional about 41 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: decreasing what I'm doing, which is so hard because all 42 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: the things I'm doing are so amazing this podcast included. 43 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: So anyway, long, long, long answer to your question is 44 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: it's a mix. It's a mix of relief that I'm 45 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: taking things off of my plate and grease because the 46 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: conversations have been so good and I think, you know, 47 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: the voices and the experiences that we're able to shine 48 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: a light on with this podcast yours included are so 49 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: important for people to hear. And so even though this 50 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: is our last episode, I hope people will keep talking 51 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,399 Speaker 1: about the book and sharing it with people, and we'll 52 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: keep talking about the Unaddiction Podcast and sharing it with people, 53 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: because I really do believe it's these conversations that'll start 54 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: turning things around. So that was the first part of 55 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: your question, and then the second part was some favorite 56 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: some favorite moments. 57 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 2: Okay, you know, just some ideas of things like what 58 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 2: conversations or topics left you, you know, thinking about them 59 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 2: for the rest of the day or the rest of 60 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 2: the week. What are things that you learned, what are 61 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 2: things that you've never thound about. What are things that 62 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 2: brought you immense joy or satisfaction? 63 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: Oh? Man, I swear I could literally talk about every episode, 64 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: but okay, I just pulled up the episode list because legit, 65 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: there's probably something from every episode. But yeah, starting with 66 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: the very first episode, missus Kasha Davis. I was so 67 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: proud to open up this episode with a gay man 68 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: drag queen because I just want to be really intentional 69 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: about our lgbtq i AA community seeing themselves and hearing themselves. 70 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:53,679 Speaker 1: And I remember ed telling us about his father's dying 71 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: days and when his father looked at him and said 72 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: I love you and I'm proud of you, and it 73 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: was connected also to his sobriety and what that meant. 74 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: Oh my god, you hear me tearing up right now, 75 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: Like that was same fricking two years ago, and I 76 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 1: can still feel it in my heart. Like that was 77 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: our very first episode, and I was like, holy crap, 78 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: if we're gonna be like, is this one of the 79 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: podcast it's about to be like because if so, I 80 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: am here for it. So I just thought that was 81 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:34,679 Speaker 1: like so incredibly powerful. And then we had Derek Brown 82 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: episode two, and Derek taught me that a non alcoholic 83 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: cocktail is not a mocktail. He was like, I am 84 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: not talking about Shirley Temple, and that really kicked off, 85 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: which is still part of we talk up through all 86 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: of these episodes about like planning seeds. That really kicked 87 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: off me and Joel being like super interested in non 88 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: alcoholic cocktails. And it was only a couple of weeks 89 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: after that Joel and I went to Oregon SunRiver Sun 90 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: River Resort, Yeah exactly, I had to. I think we 91 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: were going for Joel's national championships for the for the 92 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: the golf Tour, and so we were like, Okay, we 93 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: want a non alcoholic cocktail. And the bartender made this 94 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: non alcoholic cocktail that was like, oh snap, this is 95 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: our jam. And so we started going to all every 96 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: restaurant we would go to, it would be like, non 97 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: alcoholic cocktail, put it on the menu. If you don't 98 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: have it on the menu. It became like a little 99 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: movement for me and Joel and then turned into we 100 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: were like we don't even need to drink anymore. So 101 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 1: me and Joel stopped drinking like fifteen months ago. So 102 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: like that was incredible. Wow, I know, right, I know, 103 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: isn't it? Isn't it? And then I met Derek in 104 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 1: person at a book signing, an addiction book signing in DC, 105 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: and it was amazing. Okay, and then Sami oh So 106 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 1: Shamiko was the first black woman we had on the pod, 107 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 1: and I really connected to her story. You know, I'm 108 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: all about the positive childhood experiences, and she talked about 109 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: I mean, so many adverse childhood experiences. But then she 110 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: talked about how basketball saved her and it was not 111 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: just the sport, but the connection, the belonging, the adults 112 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: taking a genuine interest in hers, like pieces all over it. 113 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: And what I really loved was, you know, she talked 114 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: about our culture of hiding the struggle, like when you're 115 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: the star, and that culture of appearing perfect when you're 116 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: falling apart on the inside. And I just thought it 117 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: was a really beautiful episode where I thought a lot 118 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: of very high performing, perfect appearing people would be able 119 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: to connect with that struggle. So that was incredible. Oh God, 120 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: I am I gonna go through every episode because literally 121 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: you're looking at these episodes and like, you don't have to. 122 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: I know, I don't have to. I'm just saying every 123 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: single one of these episodes. I can absolutely from the 124 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: moment that stood out to me, Jason was like, you 125 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: gotta have fun and treatment, and I was like, yes, Jason, 126 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: because you gotta have fun in life period. 127 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure he was like, you gotta have fun 128 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 2: and also if you don't jump out of a plane 129 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 2: at some point. 130 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: And by the way, he still owes me jumping out 131 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: of a plane, he does, I don't want to do that, 132 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: Like I want to do something else fun. I want 133 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: to do something else fun. Just to be clear, No, 134 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: you're gonna ride horses. We're gonna ride horses. But I 135 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: remember what Jason said. I was afraid to get in 136 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: recovery because I didn't know how I would have fun sober. 137 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: And I thought that was like critically important for people 138 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: to hear, like they're so much fun in recovery without 139 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: the pain of active addiction. But a lot of people, 140 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: you know, don't know how they will connect and have 141 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: fun without substances. So that was incredible. Joseph Green listen. 142 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: Joseph always takes me to church with his spoken word, 143 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: and he took me to church in episode five. Also, 144 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: the problem is I connect with Joseph a lot of 145 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: different other ways, and so I might tell a story 146 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: that wasn't even in this podcast. But I really appreciated 147 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: his message, which is like, sobriety is a part of 148 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: a bigger life as opposed to sobriety is your life? Right? 149 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: I remember Phil? Okay, this is concluding season one, Phil 150 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: read and I have told the story more than one 151 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:59,199 Speaker 1: since then. Phil said somebody took him to an AA 152 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: meeting of all black men and that was when it 153 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: clicked for him that there was a place for him 154 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: in sobriety. And so this is a huge shout out 155 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: to all of the efforts people are making to create 156 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: these groups of safety where people can come in and 157 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: see themselves and be themselves. All right, Season two, Demi, 158 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: this was the funniest episode we had ever done until 159 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: Flavor flav Sorry, Demy, you have been supplanted. Demi really 160 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 1: put the importance of recognizing neurodiversity and the sense of 161 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: not quite right and not fitting in and lack of 162 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: belonging that that can create, and how that was like 163 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: her main risk factor for developing alcohol use disorder. So 164 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: you already know, Jada because we talked to her, and 165 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: then I like that opened up my brain just in 166 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: other parts of my life and just started coming. I 167 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: think that's what she about to say. Okay, so then. 168 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 2: Are you for real though? Have you started writing it ma'am. 169 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: I started out this whole thing saying I am taking 170 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: things off my plate. 171 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 2: Okay, I just yeah, no, I'm not suggesting you do. 172 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 2: I was just asking if you had. 173 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: I think Jennifer Keen will say the answer is yes. 174 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: And we know when Jennifer Keene says it shall be, 175 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: it shall be. Yeah. Aaron car strung out. So this 176 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: really changed my life because I people will not believe 177 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: this had never before. Okay, that's not true. I had 178 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: only other ever read one other memoir i'll call it 179 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: like a memoir of addiction, and that one I read 180 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: all the way back, probably in like two thousand and eight, 181 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine. It was no A piece of cake, 182 00:11:54,920 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: cupcake brown, A piece of cake, cupcake brown. And there 183 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: it just it's too painful to do this work all 184 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: day every day and then come home and also have 185 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: this work be my reading. And so like, I don't 186 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: watch shows, I don't watch popular shows about addiction. I 187 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: don't read people's memoirs, et cetera. At least it's how 188 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: it used to be. And then I took Strong out 189 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 1: of all places on vacation with me to Mexico, and 190 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: I was like, this is not even how I roll. 191 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh my god, like it was 192 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: just so meaningful reading this beautiful book where she was 193 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: just so open. And now I have started reading memoirs 194 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: of people with addiction journeys and like, I just absolutely 195 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: love it. Which is how we get to Laura Cathcart 196 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: in a next episode, and how we get to Jessica 197 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: Happy in a next episode. Like, I just love it. 198 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 2: It's a whole it is off a thing world world memoir, 199 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 2: addiction memoirs. 200 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: It is a whole world. 201 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 2: And you think like there's you know, there's nothing more 202 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 2: to say, and then you read the next one and 203 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 2: you're like, holy shit. 204 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, and then Okay, I don't want anybody to 205 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: take it personally if I don't call out your episode 206 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: specifically because I'm skip a couple Maya Maya soliv its listen. 207 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: I was like, this white lady is an activist. I 208 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: already knew that, but she came so hard on the 209 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: episode and she was like, my addiction was severe. I 210 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: was the drug dealer. I went in the courtroom and 211 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: I was like, why am I the only white person 212 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: in here? Because I know I'm not the only white 213 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: person selling drugs, and I just appreciated how on the nose, 214 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: unfiltered she talked about the cultural political aspects of addiction 215 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: and the criminalization of addiction. I was like, girl, you 216 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: took me to church, and then, okay, you know, I 217 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: got to mention Dopey Dave. So me and Dave go 218 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:04,439 Speaker 1: way back shout out Dopey Nation. I mean, just incredible. 219 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: I love me some Dopey Dave. He's so funny. That's 220 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: what I loved, the irreverence and just like realness that 221 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: he talks about the addiction experience with. So I'm just 222 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: gonna shout out Dave again because I love me some Dave. 223 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: Katie I mentioned earlier that was the start of the 224 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: idea for season four, All Black Everything. I remember her 225 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: mentioning that she needed a sabbatical from the work she 226 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: was doing with Sober Black Girls, and it felt really 227 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: important to me to validate for her the importance of 228 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: taking the sabbatical, so much so that I even emailed 229 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: her a couple of times after, like, uh, and also 230 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: because I need to learn from her. Okay, and then 231 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: I must see Laura Willoughby. This was so cool, so 232 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: out straight out of the UK. First of all, she 233 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: was also amazing. She started Club Soda, which, first of all, 234 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: I just always love when people come up with these 235 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: very clever things like club Soda is a club for 236 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: people that don't drink. I was like, why are you 237 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: so cool because she's British? 238 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 2: I mean right, like, come on, she's hilarious because she's 239 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 2: straight up, straight up britt esh I love that episode 240 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 2: so much. 241 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: She talked about how she contributed to the start of 242 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: the cultural revolution of not drinking quote for tonight or 243 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: for good, and I just you know, I love the 244 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: idea of a cultural revolution. I talk about it. Actually, 245 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: it has like a whole section in the Unaddiction book, 246 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: like the importance of starting these cultural revolutions. And also 247 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: Laura I said, I'm coming to the UK in a minute, 248 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: so I look forward. Because she was also a dessert lover. 249 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: These are the things I do not forget and it's 250 00:15:54,800 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: gonna be for real when I come out there. Laura, Okay, 251 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: season four, So we made it up to season four. 252 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: Season four started out my idea was all black, and 253 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: then it really was Jessica Happy who reached out to 254 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: me through Aaron Carr and I was like, this has 255 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: got to be black and brown. I like knew it immediately. 256 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: But Laura, we opened up season four Black and Brown season, 257 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: she wrote stash my life in Hiding, and I just 258 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: remember from the moment it might even be the first page. 259 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: But y'all if it's not, do not be like and Zinga. 260 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: That was not even on the first page. It was 261 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: very early in the book. I think like the dedication 262 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: was she said something I'm paraphrasing this book. If for 263 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: people seeking recovery that doesn't don't see themselves in books, 264 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: that's really where I mean. I was like, we gotta 265 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: do a black and Brown season, and so just super grateful. 266 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: The other thing I remember Laura was like, I was like, 267 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: what's your man formula? She was like, I get up, 268 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: I do yoga. I think she says, I'm like, drink 269 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: a gallon of water, which I was like, that's wild. 270 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: Takes her vitamins like has are whole, no shade. I'm 271 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: just saying, if I drink a gallon of water at 272 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: the beginning of the day, I would be in no 273 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: meetings because I would be on the toilet pan. But 274 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: she was like, to be clear, I don't love doing it. Yes, yes, yeah, right, 275 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 1: Like she's like everybody's like, oh and I feel so 276 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: She's like, no, I do not love doing it, but 277 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: I love the result of doing it, which is this 278 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: life of recovery. And I was like, damn that was that. 279 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 2: That is so gnarly to me, charly, like like there 280 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 2: is a deep devotion to that result or that outcome 281 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 2: or you know, that version of life, to the point 282 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 2: where she puts herself through a daily regimen of not 283 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 2: so preferred things over and over and over again, like 284 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 2: that's right. Yeah, that stuck with me for sure. 285 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. And then I'll do these a 286 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: little bit out of order, but no, won't. I'm just 287 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: going to the list. Jessica Hoppy. Oh, first of all, 288 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: Jessica Hoppy is like the coolest. So she reached out 289 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: after we had already decided season four was the last 290 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:32,239 Speaker 1: season and already had the guests lined up, and I 291 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: was like, we gotta find a way because she talked 292 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: about the Gateway drug being the American dream and I 293 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: was like, oh, why was I about to say? Snap? 294 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: And then you start snapping? Yeah, exactly, and that might 295 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: be you can fact check me on this Jada, but 296 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,360 Speaker 1: that much might be the episode I cried the hardest 297 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: and the most you did frequently. I mean, oh, Jessica, 298 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: just her whole experience just climbed inside my soul. And 299 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: we also were watching Love Is Blind season seven at 300 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 1: the same time, and so I will not spoil it 301 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: for you, but we were back and forth on email, like, yes, 302 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: so Jessica, I'm like a new fangirl for Jessica. Same 303 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: chef Gregory Gorday. We worked so hard, Okay, I think 304 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: Chef Gorday might be busier than in Zinga Harrison and 305 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: we are yeah for and like doing amazing things. We 306 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: most have worked four months to find the time to 307 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 1: tape this episode and boy, boy boy, it was so 308 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: so so worth it. And the moment that stands out 309 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: for me is when he said he, you know, felt 310 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: he was at the lowest point of his life, kind 311 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: of had a quote taken the fall from grace from 312 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: high end New York kitchen to this small kitchen with 313 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: roaches in it, and it was like, this is the worst. 314 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:23,640 Speaker 1: And then somebody invited him to an AA meeting and 315 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: like that was the beginning of the beginning, right of 316 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: the rest of his life, and it reminded me my 317 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: husband's father, my father in law, Wilbur, who is no 318 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: longer with us, May he rest in peace, was a 319 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: honery wil Wilbur. Wilbur was honering, okay, and but one 320 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: of my like one of my favorite quotes from him 321 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: is like, if somebody tried to tell him what to do, 322 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: or even if you weren't trying to tell him what 323 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: to do, he would be like, I am three times 324 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: seven plus, which means like I'm older than twenty one 325 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: years old. I'm grown. You can't tell me what to do. 326 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: That is like a snapshot into Wilburgh. Okay, But Wilbury 327 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: used to say, sometimes when you're winning, you're losing, and 328 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: when you're winning, wow, And like that moment from Chef 329 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: Gregory stood out to me. He thought he was losing, 330 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: but that was like the beginning of winning. I love 331 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: that episode, okay. And then Flavor Flave was my all 332 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: time I mean, oh my goodness, Flave took me to 333 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: school about thirty two times in forty minutes. It was 334 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,719 Speaker 1: so good and so you'll hear in the episodes if 335 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: you go back and listen. I tried to ask everybody 336 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: what's one thing you want us to unlearn that we 337 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 1: think we know. What's one stigma you want us to undo? 338 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: What's one conversation you want us to uncover? And Flave 339 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: was like, you can't unlearn what you already know, and 340 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 1: you can't undo what you've already done. And I have 341 00:21:55,400 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: said that probably almost every day since that episode, and 342 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, we're not gonna try to unlearn, but we're 343 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: gonna try to learn something new, and we're not gonna 344 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 1: try to undo, but we're gonna make decisions about what 345 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: we want to do differently. We can still uncover our conversations. 346 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: He did let me keep that on, but he was 347 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: just so funny. And then the other part that I 348 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: absolutely loved was like Flavor Flaves take on the fuckets 349 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 1: and just say no. That was just that was my 350 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: favorite part of that episode. And then I'm gonna end 351 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: on our episode with Jada because this came about very organically, 352 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: and I really think it was the black and brown 353 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: idea that created the opportunity for you to say yes 354 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: to coming on the podcast, or for us to even 355 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 1: think about having you not as producer but as guests. 356 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: Because hour before and after conversations on all of these 357 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: episodes that I just went through were so personal and meaningful. 358 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: And now I'm getting cheery, but you've been this is 359 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: part of my grief, such an important and beautiful addition 360 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: to my life. Thank you, and so I will always 361 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: be grateful to you for sharing your experience with our 362 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: un addiction listeners. 363 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I as I was editing our conversation, 364 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 2: I realized that I forgot to mention, like, very clearly, 365 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 2: you know, the whole the thing that allowed me to even. 366 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: Explore like. 367 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 2: A different you know, path Forward was your book, and 368 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 2: anyone like watching the events of my life from the 369 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 2: out outside of my own body, would have been like, oh, 370 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 2: obviously there's an obvious reason why this, this relationship and 371 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 2: this project is a part of your life. I was 372 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 2: very much with the you know, with the unfolding of 373 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 2: this podcast step by step in the present, because I 374 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 2: absolutely knew my bones what was coming. I just like 375 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 2: I just knew it, and but I didn't know why exactly. 376 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 2: I could feel a life I'm putting it in quotes, 377 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 2: a lifestyle change coming because oh I'm getting older, or 378 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 2: like oh it's about time, or oh, positive changes are 379 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 2: always good, you know whatever. I didn't like realize until 380 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 2: I started reading your book. I am for I was 381 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 2: like firmly inside many risk factors, living out all of 382 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 2: these risk factors, and I didn't know it. I was 383 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 2: not aware. So for anyone who is like even slightly curious, 384 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 2: I'm like, I want to challenge you if you've never 385 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 2: you know, taken any sort of assessment. There is one 386 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 2: in Inziga's book. It's cage. What are What does it 387 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 2: stand for? 388 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: Well, it's an acronym, So it's just four questions. C 389 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: Have you ever felt have you ever thought about cutting back? A? 390 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: Have you ever been annoyed when somebody else mentioned to 391 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: you the use of filling the blank? Gee? Have you 392 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: ever felt guilty about your use pattern? And E? Have 393 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: you ever needed an eye opener first thing in the 394 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: morning of that substance to get yourself going? Yeah? 395 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 2: So I did that assessment, and I think there are 396 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 2: more questions around in each of those, just like exploring further, 397 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 2: you know what any like some examples of what some 398 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 2: of these things might be. And I did that and 399 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 2: it was like yes, yes, yes, no or whatever, right, 400 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 2: And it's one of those things where you absolutely know. 401 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 2: If you answered yes to even one of these questions, 402 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 2: then here are some ways to move forward if you're 403 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 2: even more curious. The thing about being curious about something 404 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 2: or fucking around and finding out is that you don't 405 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 2: have to do anything about it. I think there's For me, 406 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 2: there's always reluctance when I might know the answer to 407 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 2: something and I don't like what the answer is, like 408 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 2: I won't even ask the question. But having been exposed 409 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 2: to all so many people's stories and how it's not 410 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 2: the end of the world if you happened to experience 411 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 2: trauma or some things in life and chose to deal 412 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 2: with it in particular ways that many other people do 413 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 2: and some people don't get out of You know, that 414 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 2: is like something that we as humans do, especially here 415 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 2: in the West. It's common, and we don't talk about 416 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 2: it because we I think, ultimately think that it's just 417 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 2: like the end of something, an identity, a safety, something 418 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 2: that we can never could never even think of replacing. 419 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 2: So I did this assessment, and I'm like, so it's 420 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 2: a problem that I am. Anytime I drink alcohol, I'm 421 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 2: binge drinking like nobody has ever around me ever challenged 422 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 2: that they've said things like in a joking way where 423 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 2: and perhaps like the people that I have in my 424 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 2: life know me well enough to know that if they 425 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,719 Speaker 2: even said anything more direct I it would be like 426 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,439 Speaker 2: a fight. Right. But I did this assessment because I 427 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 2: was very curious, and the answer that I got was 428 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 2: clear that I'm not immune to the things that I've 429 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 2: lived through. Basically, I didn't make a I didn't like 430 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 2: put my hand on the desk and be like, I'm 431 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 2: this is it, I'm finished or whatever. 432 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: You really don't have to. 433 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 2: Decide to do something at all if you feel curious, 434 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 2: like be curious about it and just like let it be, 435 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 2: because once that door is opened, it's really hard to close. 436 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 2: All of the different parts of your psyche are just 437 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 2: kind of like, oh, you know what if or whatever. 438 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 2: Of course is probably gonna be shame and that's okay too, 439 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 2: but anyway, you yeah, same. I want to reflect the 440 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 2: same back to you, like our relationship has been incredibly 441 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 2: impactful in so many positive, beautiful ways that I that 442 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 2: continue to live past the moments, right and will continue 443 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 2: to live and I'm yeah, I'm so so grateful. 444 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:27,719 Speaker 1: Thank you. Well, I think then now that Jada and 445 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: I have both dissolved ourselves to tears that this can 446 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: be a natural end to the Unaddictioned podcast. So you 447 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: heard kind of mind Jada's genuine and organic gratitude for 448 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: each other. I would also just like to finish with 449 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: gratitude for every single guest who came on the show, 450 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: every single support person behind the scenes that made it 451 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: possible for our guests to come on the show. Jennifer Keen, 452 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: who byball way, made Unaddictioned the book possible but also 453 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: made Unaddictioned the podcast possible through Octagon, definitely want to 454 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: say thank you. In addition to jen Uber at Octagon. 455 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: Definitely have to give a big shout out to Amanda 456 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: who actually puts the podcasts on the waves whatever. I 457 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: don't know how podcasts works, so it's probably not waves. 458 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 2: I think she shoots them through a T shirt gun 459 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 2: into space. 460 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: Thank you, Amanda, and then every single one of you 461 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: who listened to one episode. Thank you for listening. If 462 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: you told somebody about it, thank you for telling somebody 463 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: about it. Even if you didn't, but you took something 464 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: from it and thought about something differently, or thought about 465 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: something you want to do differently, or had a conversation 466 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: then thank you for that too, and so. 467 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 2: Stay tuned, absolutely, stay tuned, and ps, you can always 468 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 2: email us. We would love to hear the impact I 469 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 2: personally would love to hear the impact that Endzinga's book 470 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 2: and this or and or this podcast has had on 471 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 2: your life, if you had a really dope convo whatever. 472 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 2: Our voicemail is still open. We're going to keep that open. 473 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 2: We're going to keep our social media open just in 474 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 2: case of something in the future. I don't know, uh, 475 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 2: but yeah, we like interact with us. We're here for 476 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 2: it and interact with each other obviously because. 477 00:31:53,520 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: We need it all right. Then, by y'all, bye, Thank 478 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: you so much for tuning in. And if you like 479 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: this episode, please check out my book An Addiction, Six 480 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: Mind Changing Conversations that Could Save a Life, available at 481 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: Barnes and Noble Bookshop, dot Org, Union Squaring Company, Amazon, 482 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: and wherever books are sold. We want to hear from you. 483 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: If you identify as black or brown and have a 484 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: recovery story to share, something you've learned, a stigma that 485 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: you've undone, or a conversation that you've had about addiction, 486 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: send us a voicemail at speakpipe dot com, slash you apod. 487 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 1: That's speak pipe dot com, slash you a pod.