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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noel.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Paul, Mission Control, DECANDT. Most importantly, you are here.

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Speaker 3: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 3: A bit of a palette cleanser tonight. We have heard

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Speaker 3: from many of our fellow conspiracy realists who are always

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Speaker 3: asking us for more cryptid explorations. Now, long time listeners,

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Speaker 3: you know we've examined in depth. What are some of

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Speaker 3: the episodes. I'll always remember our pal who runs Expedition Bigfoot.

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Speaker 3: That was a great interview.

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Speaker 4: I love a wistful way you said. We'll always remember

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Speaker 4: Expedition Bigfoot. You know it was a golden time in

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Speaker 4: all of our lives. I think.

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Speaker 3: Let's see, we also looked at cryptids in Indonesia, right

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Speaker 3: the ohl oh jeez, that was well.

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Speaker 4: Well that was another one. Oh man. There was the

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Speaker 4: spooky fans. Remember those spooky fans that were killing everybody

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Speaker 4: that we sort of lumped into cryptids because it was

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Speaker 4: like a I don't know, there was a ghost.

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Speaker 3: At play, perhaps in South Korea, that's right. Yeah, And

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Speaker 3: now we are traveling this evening to a place that

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Speaker 3: has its own, largely unique population of alleged cryptids that

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Speaker 3: many people in the West have not heard of. I mean,

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Speaker 3: you've heard of the region, you've heard of India and

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Speaker 3: Pakistan in Afghanistan, but you may not know they have

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Speaker 3: monsters all their own, one of which is just by

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Speaker 3: the way, spoiler, extremely adorable. Will get to it. Here

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Speaker 3: are the facts for anyone unfamiliar. We'd like to give

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Speaker 3: you just a quick and dirty understanding of what cryptids

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Speaker 3: are and why they fascinate us.

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Speaker 2: So cryptids are sneaky animals that might exist. That's how

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Speaker 2: I will define a crypti.

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Speaker 4: That's what cryptid translates to actually in Latin as sneaky animal.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a group term for any number of organisms

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Speaker 3: that are alleged to exist or believed to exist, outside

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Speaker 3: the bounds of modern acknowledged scientific consensus. And these are

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Speaker 3: very old. Like you know, everybody has their own version

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Speaker 3: of Bigfoot. As we'll see, there are also more regional

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Speaker 3: cryptids like the Jersey Devil. Neither of those have been

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Speaker 3: proven to exist, but every year there are dozens, if

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Speaker 3: not hundreds of people who believe that they have seen one.

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Speaker 4: Well, And I mean it's all so tightly wound up

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Speaker 4: in folklore and tradition of different cultures, and a lot

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Speaker 4: of times there's a belief in these creatures that stems

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Speaker 4: from either kind of superstition or even religion sometimes and

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Speaker 4: that leads to, perhaps without proof, a genuine belief in

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Speaker 4: some parts of the world, and these things existing.

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Speaker 2: Well, and every once in a while, as we're going

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Speaker 2: to find in this episode, as we have in the past,

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Speaker 2: there's a documented sighting of something in the way it's

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Speaker 2: written about in that first documented sighting, it's so mysterious

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Speaker 2: and strange that it creates its own lore.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, there's a real umami to it, right, because

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Speaker 3: humans seek to understand the world around them, and there

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Speaker 3: are few things as intellectually take as the ability to

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Speaker 3: discover a new animal.

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Speaker 4: You did promise a palate cleanser, Benz, and this is

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Speaker 4: going to be sort of a chicken noodle soup for

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Speaker 4: the conspiratorial soul here today. I like that phrase.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we were talking about this off air. We wanted

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Speaker 3: to do one fun one because we have deep water

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Speaker 3: behind us and ahead. There's also a lot of scientific

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Speaker 3: basis to the idea of cryptids. You know, some cryptids,

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Speaker 3: the most plausible ones, turn out to be animals that

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Speaker 3: we already knew existed, and perhaps society, often Western society,

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Speaker 3: mistakenly concluded these animals were extinct. Our number one example

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Speaker 3: of this is the seilacanth. They were supposed to have

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Speaker 3: died out millions of years ago, and then, surprise, surprise,

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Speaker 3: some Western scientists got over to the part of Africa

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Speaker 3: where the ceilacanth is still very much alive and they said, oh,

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Speaker 3: we've proven cryptid. And all the people who are living

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Speaker 3: in that area were like, no, this ugly fish has

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Speaker 3: always been around. You can't eat it. It's a trash fish.

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Speaker 3: And they were like, no, history, we are writing it.

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Speaker 2: But isn't there even a specific Indian selacanth that we've

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Speaker 2: heard about for this episode.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, there very much is, and we are going

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Speaker 3: to in the course of this exploration, introduce you, fellow

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Speaker 3: conspiracy realist, to an amazing map that inspired a lot

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Speaker 3: of this conversation. There are other cryptids, like the Tasmanian tiger,

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Speaker 3: still officially considered extinct, but every single year a few

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Speaker 3: people in Australia or Tasmania are certain they have seen

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Speaker 3: one alive in the wild. It's a really the study

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Speaker 3: of cryptozoology is a study of human encroachment into wilderness.

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Speaker 3: And you know, it's also weird. Like we think when

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Speaker 3: you see stuff on the History Channel or Discovery ID

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Speaker 3: or whatever, you get the sense that cryptids are kind

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Speaker 3: of a modern concept. But it turns out, over the

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Speaker 3: course of history, every single human culture has been fascinated

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Speaker 3: by the story of fantastic creatures, and often it's because

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Speaker 3: they were just working with what they had.

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Speaker 4: I mean, y'all, even some of the ones we know about.

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Speaker 4: One could argue you are pretty fantastic. Can you imagine

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Speaker 4: seeing some of these for the first time or catching

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Speaker 4: a glimpse, you know, before there was scientific basis to explain,

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Speaker 4: you know, the nature of connection between different species and

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Speaker 4: phyla and kingdoms and all of that good stuff.

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Speaker 2: Pretty wild, Even something as simple as you live in

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Speaker 2: an area and nobody you've ever known has ever seen

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Speaker 2: a big cat in anywhere near where you are, and

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Speaker 2: there's no writings about big cats, there's no official big

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Speaker 2: cats anywhere near you. But then you swear you experienced

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Speaker 2: seeing one and hearing one out in the woods, like

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Speaker 2: you know you did, and what he like? What do

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Speaker 2: you tell your friends? And what does that turn into?

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Speaker 2: And it's the same with big reptiles, right.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, it is the same with reptiles. As we'll

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Speaker 3: find there are still reptiles out there to be discovered.

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Speaker 3: An interesting side note for a different thing. I recently

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Speaker 3: learned that some reptiles may indeed be capable of what

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Speaker 3: mammals would recognize as affection. Story for another day, Story

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Speaker 3: for another day.

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Speaker 4: Dude, have you ever seen a guy walking around holding

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Speaker 4: a bearded dragon just on their chest? You know there's

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Speaker 4: love in those eyes. I've seen it.

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Speaker 2: I've recently saw this video of a guy who he's

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Speaker 2: out on the swamp. He's taking some people on a tour,

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Speaker 2: I think, and he tells about this smamp puppy. You've

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Speaker 2: seen a swamp puppy And they're like what, And it's

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Speaker 2: an allegorty. He basically calls a wild alligator over to

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Speaker 2: the boat, gives it some gimick.

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Speaker 4: Kind of whistle like a call an a gator car.

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Speaker 2: He was just talking to it like it's a dog

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Speaker 2: man and he's just patting it on the nose. That

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Speaker 2: you just pat him right on the nose and if

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Speaker 2: they ever come at you just pop them right in

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Speaker 2: that nose.

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Speaker 3: Chicken.

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Speaker 4: Maybe yeah, yeah, you guys. I don't know if this

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Speaker 4: was like a common thing in Georgia. I think this

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Speaker 4: guy might have made the rounds. But there's this dude

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Speaker 4: named Joe would come tonight elementary school always talked about

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Speaker 4: being swamp wise.

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Speaker 2: Did he tour everyone?

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Speaker 4: There's more than one. Maybe there's like like various.

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Speaker 3: Psychics calling themselves Madame Bell. Perhaps it's a brand name. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: we know also that uh, first off, we're establishing here

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Speaker 3: that the human species has a lot to learn about

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Speaker 3: other non human animals, and humans are still very much animals.

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Speaker 3: They are type of primate. We know that the humans

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Speaker 3: have been attempting to explain the world around them since

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Speaker 3: they started peopling. And so some of your favorite mythologies,

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Speaker 3: some of your favorite legends, they originate from prototypes of

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Speaker 3: scientific investigation. One of the most famous would be the

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Speaker 3: legend of the Cyclops, the giant with one eye instead

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Speaker 3: of two. That most likely came from the discovery of

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Speaker 3: the skull of an elephant and the misinterpretation. We talked

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Speaker 3: about this in the past. If you look at an

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Speaker 3: elephant's skull, you can look at the big hole in

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Speaker 3: the middle where the trunk is and think, yeah, that's

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Speaker 3: where I would put an eye if I was gone.

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Speaker 4: Man, I was hoping there was some kind of proto

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Speaker 4: man that definitely had one eye. That was a real thing.

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Speaker 3: Oh, there's been a couple, a couple non consensually, but

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Speaker 3: we know some cryptids also are the result of the

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Speaker 3: great game of telephone oral communication, mistranslation, embellishment. One person

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Speaker 3: travels from beyond the bounds of their known part of

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Speaker 3: the world, and then they see amazing animals, perhaps in Asia,

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Speaker 3: perhaps in Africa, perhaps in what we call the Americas.

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Speaker 3: They come back, they tell their colleagues, they tell their

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Speaker 3: peer groups, and the colleagues start to tell other people

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Speaker 3: the story. And every single time they tell the story,

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Speaker 3: they embellish it a little bit, they exaggerate a little bit.

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Speaker 3: They might even twist it around to support whatever their

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Speaker 3: preexisting ideology is. You know, the weirdest thing is There

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Speaker 3: are scammers now in the modern evenings talking about cryptids

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Speaker 3: as a way to sort of bait and switch folks.

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Speaker 3: But for most of human history, so far as we know,

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Speaker 3: these people were not trying to pull a scam. These

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Speaker 3: early philosophers, these historians, these proto scientists, they wanted to

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Speaker 3: understand the world around them, and they got it wrong

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Speaker 3: pretty often. But they still, even with everything that looked

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Speaker 3: like a misstep, they still played a important role in

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Speaker 3: the larger or and important role in the larger advancement

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Speaker 3: of civilization. India is no different. India is perhaps one

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Speaker 3: of the best land areas to find an actual cryptid.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's so old, it's massive. Yes, it has

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Speaker 3: one of, if not the world's largest populations of human beings,

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Speaker 3: but it also has a lot of wild countries.

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Speaker 4: Still. I think this came up in another episode recently.

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Speaker 4: We were talking about our friend Mangesh telling us the

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Speaker 4: story about how his father, I want to say, or

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Speaker 4: maybe it was grandfather, was send minister grandfather like a

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Speaker 4: minister of forestry or it was responsible for like overseeing

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Speaker 4: a lot of this crazy you know jungle, and he

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Speaker 4: you know, really pointed out to us how wild so

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Speaker 4: much of India really, really is.

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Speaker 3: We also learned the phrase mega diverse. We've talked about

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Speaker 3: biodiversity in the past, but very few places are mega diverse.

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Speaker 3: Right now, as we are recording in twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 3: the nation of India, not just the region of that subcontinent,

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Speaker 3: but on the single nation of India has seven to

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Speaker 3: eight percent of all of the recorded species in the world.

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Speaker 3: There are thirty four universally agreed upon biodiversity hotspots, and

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Speaker 3: India has four of them. The Himalaya region, as you

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Speaker 3: mentioned earlier, in nol Indo, Burma, or miandmar the western

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Speaker 3: Sri Lanka. It goes on and on. But the question

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Speaker 3: is what else is out there now? Are there any

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Speaker 3: true cryptids unidentified life forms in India? Could any of

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Speaker 3: these stories be real? We're going to pause for a

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Speaker 3: word from our response, and then we're diving in. Here's

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Speaker 3: where it gets crazy. Yes, it sounds weird to think

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Speaker 3: that the most heavily human occupied nation on the planet

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Speaker 3: could still be very rife with wilderness and animals, but

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Speaker 3: it's true. Like if you are if you are looking

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Speaker 3: anywhere but the depths of the ocean, India is quite

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Speaker 3: likely the place where you could find a real cryptid.

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Speaker 4: And I mean in general, when we're talking about cryptids,

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Speaker 4: not all of them are created equal in terms of

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Speaker 4: their provenance. As we mentioned at the top of the show,

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Speaker 4: there are certainly some of them that may have been

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Speaker 4: misidentified in historical records, you know, in writing and early

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Speaker 4: kind of naturalists and misunderstandings galore that played, you know,

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Speaker 4: into that game of telephone can really make something into

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Speaker 4: something pretty outrageously cryptid. Like I guess what what I'm

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Speaker 4: trying to say is there's sort of a there's a

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Speaker 4: likelihood factor of whether some of these things are related

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Speaker 4: in these tales to actual creatures, or if the game

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Speaker 4: of telephone just got completely out of hand, driven by

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Speaker 4: ideology or superstition or what have you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let's go to some examples. One of the most

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Speaker 3: ancient cryptids in India and in Ethiopia is a little

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Speaker 3: thing called the crow cutta. To describe it, it sounds

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Speaker 3: like we're setting up a bar joke. What do you

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Speaker 3: get when you cross a wolf, a dog, a hyena,

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Speaker 3: and a lion, Well, you get the cro tutta.

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Speaker 4: Sounds like a delicious pastry, though, doesn't it.

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Speaker 3: It does very much. So, Yeah, it's an ancient cryptid.

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Speaker 3: It's described by multiple historians throughout antiquity, including our boy Plenty, PLI,

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Speaker 3: n Y. And it's weird when you look at what

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Speaker 3: he writes in natural history. He is kind of the

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Speaker 3: first crypto zoologist, Like the the scholarly burden of proof

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Speaker 3: is not really a thing. So this guy is just

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Speaker 3: sort of like when Freud was making up psychoanalysis. He's saying, oh,

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Speaker 3: I heard about this one thing, you know, and I

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Speaker 3: heard about this other thing, and then other people took

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Speaker 3: his descriptions and they ran with it, as you said, Noel,

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Speaker 3: adding on their own twist.

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Speaker 4: Well, and as we you know, we described this thing.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of fine for all these to play the

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Speaker 4: game of like, well, let's filter these descriptions through the

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Speaker 4: things we now know that science has explained, and what

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Speaker 4: is maybe the more likely possibility of what this thing was,

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Speaker 4: or there's the WCF moment where we don't really have

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Speaker 4: a reasonable explanation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just quick side note from me, guys. Plenty is

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Speaker 2: the dude that I've always heard as Plenty or Pliny

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Speaker 2: the Elder.

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Speaker 4: Correct, Yeah, I've heard of both for sure. Something about

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Speaker 4: the mouthfeel of Pliny is fun for me. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's the guy.

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Speaker 2: Well isn't it so cool that that guy was around

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Speaker 2: so long ago and we still like look to him

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Speaker 2: as some of the for some of the original recorded

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Speaker 2: descriptions of a lot of these things. As you said, Ben,

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Speaker 2: this guy was all about weird creatures from different places because.

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Speaker 4: Clearly well traveled, right, I mean it wasn't from around here,

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Speaker 4: you know, but he didn't.

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Speaker 2: When you look at the translated recorded writings of him,

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Speaker 2: he's not discounting things. He's not immediately saying, well, you know,

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Speaker 2: because of my extensive knowledge of natural history, this Krakata

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Speaker 2: couldn't possibly exist. It's like it's like the concept is, well, what,

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Speaker 2: maybe there is something like that, we just haven't found

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Speaker 2: it yet.

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Speaker 3: He's got such abe if you've read natural history, He's like, hey, bro,

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Speaker 3: you know what I heard. I heard there was this

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Speaker 3: turtle that's like bigger than every turtle ever.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. You know. But back in those days too, it

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Speaker 4: seems like historians and scientists and philosophers there was a

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Speaker 4: little bit more of a healthy mix of mysticism in

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Speaker 4: their vibes, you know what I mean. There was an

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Speaker 4: acceptance of the impossible, right, They weren't always out to

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Speaker 4: debunk necessarily, or they were even in some ways driven

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Speaker 4: by some of these kind of metaphysical pursuits more so

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Speaker 4: than what you might consider a scientist or a historian

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Speaker 4: you know, to be today.

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Speaker 3: The Elder would have been an absolute beast on Twitter,

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Speaker 3: that's for sure. But and he probably would have hosted

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Speaker 3: a discovery show like River Monsters or something.

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Speaker 4: But I just to clarify, he's from Rome, right, ancient

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Speaker 4: Roman mytory philosopher, natural philosopher.

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Speaker 3: Ye, yeah, natural philosopher, which was a quality job at

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Speaker 3: the time if you could get it. According to what

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Speaker 3: we know about about this creature, the qro cutta from

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Speaker 3: plenty of the Elder, the animal was thought to be

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Speaker 3: found most often in the rainforest areas of India and

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Speaker 3: then parts of Africa. Ethiopia we'll call it today, Actually

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Speaker 3: we'll call it Ethiopia back then because it's one of

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Speaker 3: the oldest countries that is still a country. This cro

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Speaker 3: cutta thing, it's definitely quadruped. It's about the size of

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Speaker 3: a mule. According to descriptions. It is known for hunting

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Speaker 3: humans as well as regular dogs, and we know dogs

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Speaker 3: were at this time already well domesticated, already speciated from wolves.

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Speaker 3: The Krokutta had a lot of powers ascribed to it.

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Speaker 3: It could change its color at will, It could blend

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Speaker 3: into its surroundings like the predator it attacked from the shadows.

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Speaker 3: It could eat a person in It could kill a

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Speaker 3: person in seconds. It could digest them very quickly, and

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Speaker 3: it had a voracious appetite. Perhaps the most interesting thing

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Speaker 3: here is that it could mimic the sounds of human beings.

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Speaker 3: There are legends of it going to someone's doorstep and

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Speaker 3: then sounding like a person another person to get it outside,

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Speaker 3: to get that person outside, and then eating it.

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Speaker 5: Yo.

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Speaker 4: If you guys seen that movie Annihilation, remember the part

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Speaker 4: of me it's you know, there's a whole part of this. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: the bear, but it's a combination of a bear, and

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Speaker 4: it screams with the voice of a human, and it's

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Speaker 4: sort of this like bear, pig, bore, alligator monster thing,

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Speaker 4: this hybrid And that's what I'm picturing here. And I'm

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Speaker 4: also wondering too if, like a lot of these h takes,

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Speaker 4: there's some fear involved. You're like, this is a thing

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Speaker 4: that is absolutely terrifying is going to murder me, and therefore,

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Speaker 4: in my mind, I'm projecting the scariest possible thing that

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Speaker 4: it could be. Maybe you didn't even get a good look.

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Speaker 4: You're mainly running away from this thing, you know.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's kind of I again, the way this creature

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Speaker 2: is disc with such a combo of scary things. It

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Speaker 2: gives me those vibes as well, But it also really

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Speaker 2: reminds me of some of the skinwalker legends that exist,

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Speaker 2: especially out in the Southwest. Here in the United States.

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Speaker 2: We're from indigenous tribes that have lived there for way,

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Speaker 2: way longer than anybody who was writing stuff down about that.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know that alone gives me the creeps. Mostly,

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Speaker 2: I think the mimicry part.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's where we edge into the supernatural, or

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Speaker 3: verge into the supernatural. Another complication in the legends, this

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Speaker 3: Krokutta is said to be able to change genders. And

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Speaker 3: believe it or not, folks, we can explain this. We

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Speaker 3: have to ask one of the first questions for this

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Speaker 3: crypti example, could the Krocutta be a case of misidentification?

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Speaker 3: India does have large dangerous animals. I mean the tiger. Look,

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Speaker 3: I could. I am confident that I could PvP kangaroo.

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Speaker 3: I am right about that. I don't want to do it.

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Speaker 4: I look forward to this.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to do it. But if worse comes

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Speaker 3: to worse, I've got the agility, I've got the thumbs,

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Speaker 3: I've got the knowledge. But no one or the vast

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Speaker 3: majority of people cannot PvP a tiger, which means that

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Speaker 3: the population of India, going back to pre written history,

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Speaker 3: like before the recorded word, they knew about the tiger.

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Speaker 3: They knew about dangerous animals, they did not identify this one.

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Speaker 3: And interestingly enough, there are multiple historical descriptions post plenty

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Speaker 3: of the elder of the Krokutta being taken to Roman civilization.

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Speaker 3: We know it goes. I mean, it's weirdly recent in

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Speaker 3: the grand scheme of things. It was common era one

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Speaker 3: eight when Roman Emperor got his hands on one.

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Speaker 4: So I'm just trying to backtrack a little bit to

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Speaker 4: the switch swapping of gender. Is this maybe a case

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Speaker 4: where you know, I mean, I always bring this up,

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Speaker 4: but like the Brotherhood of the Wolf and the Beast

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Speaker 4: of Gotto Van or whatever, and you're searching and hunting

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Speaker 4: for this very murderous beast that you believe to be

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Speaker 4: an individual, a single individual, right, and then maybe there

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Speaker 4: are more than one. And maybe there's this idea that

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Speaker 4: you're hunting this one thing and you think it's a male,

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Speaker 4: and then you catch one and it's a female, and

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Speaker 4: you believe that it's changed genders because it could only

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Speaker 4: be the one individual that was causing all that havoc.

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Speaker 4: But in fact there are more than one. Maybe because

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Speaker 4: there's a lack of understanding. I don't know. I'm just

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Speaker 4: wondering what could lead to that misunderstanding or that belief.

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Speaker 3: Quite possibly, We're we're going to solve it here. So

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Speaker 3: for the historical record, we know how the a book

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Speaker 3: called the Augustine History argues that at some point the

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Speaker 3: Roman emperor Antoninus A received one of these creatures as

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Speaker 3: a gift. It was just like a flex you know,

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Speaker 3: It's like, here's a fancy souvenir. And then later another

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Speaker 3: historian called Cassius Dio talks about an emperor named Septimus

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Speaker 3: Severus who brought a crocutta to Rome, and Dio says

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Speaker 3: this quote Indian species was then introduced to Rome for

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Speaker 3: the first time so far as I am aware. It

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Speaker 3: has the color of a lioness and tiger combined, and

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Speaker 3: the general appearance of those animals as also of a

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Speaker 3: dog and folks gloriously blended. So okay, once you get

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Speaker 3: past all the weird myths that game a telephone, we're

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Speaker 3: pretty sure that this they're describing the spotted hyena and

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Speaker 3: gr tracks right. It answers the idea of imitation, right,

384
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Speaker 3: the idea of imitating calls right like a hyena laughs,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. It also it also answers the gender question

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Speaker 3: because we know that female spotted hyenas when they become

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Speaker 3: the dominant members of their pack. I don't want to

388
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Speaker 3: be too crass here, but if you look at the

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Speaker 3: biology the dominant female hyena, it's glitterius will enlarge, it

390
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Speaker 3: will become fully a rectile, so it would appear to

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Speaker 3: change gender.

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Speaker 4: That's fascinating. Yeah, that was gonna be my first bet.

393
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Speaker 4: Those things are scary, man, those are and they're yeah,

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know, guys. I always picture the

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Speaker 4: hyenas from The Lion King because I found them to

396
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Speaker 4: be pretty menacing in some of those scenes when I

397
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Speaker 4: was a kid. That stuck with me they've got the

398
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Speaker 4: sloped kind of you know, down on their haunches, ready

399
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Speaker 4: to pounce kind of quality to them. And you're right

400
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Speaker 4: that the human laugh almost like a mockingbird or something,

401
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,360
Speaker 4: or like a parrot. It almost does have this sort

402
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Speaker 4: of foremant quality to it, like a human local court.

403
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Speaker 2: And now I just have images of whoope as the

404
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,719
Speaker 2: hyaena becoming the alpha. I don't like any of it.

405
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Speaker 4: Yeah, if you ever come back, we're gonna kill you.

406
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Speaker 3: So we have solved that effectively, one cryptid case, an

407
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Speaker 3: ancient one. But let's move to other things. Because again

408
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Speaker 3: our pals, the historians of old, to my knowledge, they

409
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Speaker 3: have all passed on. They wrote a lot about weird animals.

410
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Speaker 3: And another one that's continually fascinating is something called the manticore.

411
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 3: It's also ancient, but it's a little tougher to explain

412
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Speaker 3: because it's got a weird vibe. It looks as the

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Speaker 3: head of a person right well.

414
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Speaker 4: But again to me though, it feels like a continuation

415
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 4: of the crocutta because of that human voice quality. Now

416
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 4: all of a sudden it's got the whole human head,

417
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Speaker 4: you know. And you hear about the manticore and all

418
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 4: kinds of law and like, you know, tantamount to fighting

419
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 4: a dragon or something almost you know, you really do

420
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 4: hear about you know, these brave knights or what have

421
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 4: you that would go out to slay a manticore. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's got the body of a lion, the head

423
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Speaker 3: of a man, and then in a Shamelan twist, it

424
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Speaker 3: also has the tail of a scorpion that can shoot

425
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Speaker 3: poisonous starts. I mean, this.

426
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Speaker 4: Looks like a giant clitists.

427
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,479
Speaker 3: And a giant glitterist. This looks like a drawing that

428
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 3: we would make when we were children, if all of

429
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 3: us were children at some point.

430
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 4: I mean.

431
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 3: The earliest mention of it comes from another ancient historian,

432
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 3: a Greek historian uh Tasius. He had a book called

433
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 3: Indica in the fifth century BCE, and the.

434
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 6: Acts in the couch right right right, and thank you

435
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 6: for everybody wrote in with some really fun ones about

436
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 6: Indica versus Sativa and are they a myth?

437
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 4: Anyway? Starry to derail it?

438
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 3: Well, the perfect because Indica, the actual book or the manuscript,

439
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 3: is lost to time, and we only know about it

440
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 3: because we hear other writers, later writers name checking it.

441
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 3: Going back to Plitty in Natural History. He has the

442
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 3: following description of Tasius and the manticore.

443
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, and he writes that amongst these same men there

444
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 4: is found an animal have to lapse into the voice,

445
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 4: called the mantichora, which has three rows of teeth like

446
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 4: a comb, the face and ears of a human, and

447
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 4: bluish eyes. It is red in color, with the body

448
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 4: of a lion and a tail with stigers like a scorpion.

449
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 4: Its voice is as if the sounds of the pipe

450
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 4: were mixed with a trumpet, and it is a creature

451
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 4: of great speed which avidly goes after human flesh. Guys,

452
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 4: the sound of the pipe mixed with the troupe. This

453
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 4: sounds like Jurassic Park, Foley work right here. I mean,

454
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 4: all of those crazy roars they did in Jurassic Park.

455
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 4: A lot of those are combining different animals and sometimes

456
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 4: musical instruments and drones to make these other worldly kind

457
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 4: of you know roars. Guys.

458
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 2: It's making me think of psychological manipulation war tactics that

459
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 2: we've talked about in the past.

460
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 3: This is what I'm thinking about here, yeah.

461
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 2: Right where It's like if you could convince with either

462
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 2: instrumentation like you know, imagine war drums, but in this

463
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 2: case some kind of horns and other sounds that you're

464
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 2: shooting out at great distances when your army is gathered

465
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 2: together behind a big wall right or across a ridge,

466
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 2: but you're making these sounds to make it feel as

467
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: though there's a super creepy creature just across the ridge.

468
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 4: I think think about like, you know, warring people with

469
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 4: wild animals, where they dress them up and like armor

470
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 4: and things like that, sometimes like rhinoceroses or what have you. Elephants,

471
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 4: even war elephants. You know, people are hearing these sounds

472
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 4: coming across the battlefield and only seeing them when they're

473
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 4: in the thick of the heat of battle, and they

474
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 4: might be hallucinating some stuff, seeing things that this armor

475
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 4: or what have you maybe make them think are like

476
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 4: actually parts of the animals themselves.

477
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and with this one, with this guy, we see

478
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 3: the game of telephone. Because those original accounts, right, the

479
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 3: first one is lost to history as far as we know.

480
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 3: The second one that name checks that original author goes

481
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 3: on to influence everybody else who writes about the manticre

482
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 3: without actually having seen one or what they thought was one,

483
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 3: And to date, there has been no proven capture of

484
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 3: a mant core. There have been no proven accounts of

485
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 3: attacks on humans from manti cores, despite their fearsome reputation.

486
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 3: So in this case, our verdict at Presant has to

487
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 3: be the following unknown because there's a lot of wilderness

488
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 3: in India, but this creature the way it's described does

489
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 3: not fit our current understanding biology. There is a much

490
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 3: more likely cryptid that we should go to. We're walking

491
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 3: through different flavors of cryptids because India has quite a few.

492
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 3: We've got to introduce you to. I don't know about you, guys.

493
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 3: One of my favorites the boats Billy or ghost cat.

494
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is another sick cryptid again, the manicore. If

495
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 2: you wanted to design something that was just the most

496
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 2: terrifying thing, make the manicore, especially if it's that fast

497
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 2: with all that gear already attached.

498
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:41,479
Speaker 4: To a human face.

499
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that one's that's too much. But just big cats

500
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 2: in general, as we've seen in other episodes in the past,

501
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 2: where the thought that there could be even just a

502
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 2: mountain lion lurking in a place where it should be

503
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 2: it's horrifying. But this guy, do you say it ben.

504
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 3: Uh bolts Billy, a ghost cat, a cat that's like

505
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 3: like hiding from you out there.

506
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 2: It's not just in the woods, it's hiding in the woods.

507
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, I like just calling it the boot billy. That's

508
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 4: a lot less like the wild boot billy coming coming

509
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 4: at you.

510
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 3: It's it's often described as a cross between a cat,

511
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 3: a dog, and a mongoose. So smaller than a.

512
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 4: Lot the mongoose bark crags, larger.

513
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 3: Than a hyena. Oh, the mongoose is awesome, dude. That's

514
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 3: ticky tappy all day, dude.

515
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 2: One of the most efficient hunters that exists out there.

516
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 2: Doesn't give an f kind of you know, like one

517
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 2: of those honey badgers where oh, I'm sorry, you're you're

518
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 2: a cobra. Oh you got your rattlesnake too bad, I'm

519
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 2: a mongoose come at you.

520
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 3: Well, they've got asymmetric warfare down. Check out our North

521
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 3: Woods Operation episode where I think, if I recall, I

522
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 3: went on a little bit of tangent kissing the ass

523
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 3: of the mongoose. That's why they named the operation whatever.

524
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 4: All right, can you say really quickly, I was talking

525
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 4: about like war animals and all of that stuff, And

526
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 4: I said, you know, rhinos out low because it was

527
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 4: you know, in the movie three hundred. But apparently that

528
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 4: misconception because rhino's apparently would be very difficult to train

529
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 4: and it would be unwieldy to use.

530
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 3: In that terrible right. Exactly that too.

531
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 4: But there's a very famous wood cut by Albrick Durr,

532
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 4: who is a very famous artist, and I'm not getting

533
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 4: the timeline right, but it was definitely would have been

534
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 4: representative of the time where there was like, you know,

535
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 4: a massive battlefield kind of night type you know, warfare.

536
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 4: But this wasn't real. And I don't know if Albert

537
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 4: Duhr was doing that game of telephone thing and being

538
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 4: smart or if he really thought he saw this thing.

539
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 4: It's another example of how this stuff can just kind

540
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 4: of like churn up its own lore.

541
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I mean this is this is a game. Well,

542
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 3: let's do this part. Now, this is a game you

543
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 3: can play at home with your friends. Fellow conspiracy realist,

544
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 3: describe an unfamiliar animal to a friend of yours or

545
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 3: family member, and then ask them to draw a picture

546
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 3: of what they heard you describe. And that explains to

547
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 3: us even now, you could do this at home even now.

548
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 3: That explains to us so much cryptid lore, because imagine

549
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 3: someone is going, someone's going, well, you know, out in

550
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 3: the brains of Africa, there is a creature that functions.

551
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 7: As though it was born with armor. It has opponents,

552
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 7: now to a great horn, it runs at its enemies,

553
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 7: and then you know they're like, all right, just draw that.

554
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 7: It's basically producers talking to people in the nineteen eighties, right,

555
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 7: which explains all those films.

556
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 4: You nailed it.

557
00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 3: That's very kind. We also know that the boots Billy

558
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 3: and we are not native speakers. Here is kind of

559
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 3: a regional a regional terror. People genuinely believe this ghost

560
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 3: cat was real. We found a case from twenty ten,

561
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 3: so about fourteen years ago, when residents of a neighborhood

562
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 3: called Sanjay Park they had claimed a ghost cat was

563
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 3: responsible for killing and eating forty five pigeons and one

564
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 3: goat over the course of about ten days. And the

565
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 3: guy who owned these birds in this goat, dude named

566
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 3: Faraz Dilivar Kahn. He said, look, I have seen this thing.

567
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 3: I saw it eating my pigeons. It is quote fat

568
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 3: and broad with a long tail. It's black in color.

569
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,760
Speaker 3: It has a face like a dog and a back

570
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 3: like a mongoose, which, honestly saying a back like a mongoose.

571
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 3: I don't think that really clocks for a lot of

572
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 3: people in the West. We're not mongee experts. Correct.

573
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 4: Is that a dis or accomplished.

574
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 3: I just want to be I just want.

575
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 2: To Yeah, speaking of uh fat and broad, I just

576
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 2: wanted to give this update. I was doing a little

577
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 2: Joe research and I found out who he is and

578
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 2: he has a real name. Uh and I'll just let

579
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 2: you click on that link I just put in the

580
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 2: chat boys. That is the real name of the recording

581
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,720
Speaker 2: artist known as Joe.

582
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 3: Oh, Dick Flood.

583
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 2: His name is Dick Flood.

584
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 4: Wow, please please, And apparently.

585
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 3: Richard was by father's name.

586
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 5: Please call legendary Dick Flood, who's playing and recording under

587
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 5: the sobriquet Joe in one of Fervor's most accomplished artists.

588
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 4: He's this is a record label, I guess. And he

589
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 4: had a group called Dick Flood and the Pathfinders.

590
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, nice, nice. Let the floodgates loose.

591
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 4: I'm glad we had that shared experience though growing up, y'all,

592
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 4: is this is another thing that just brings us.

593
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 3: It's like McGruff, the crime dog, you know, ohly a.

594
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:11,760
Speaker 4: Real human person that came to our schools.

595
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 3: Yes, all right, don't ruin McGruff for me. That is

596
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 3: an anthropomorphic dog. It's with a real bad drug problem. Apparently, Yes,

597
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 3: with a real you know what, cool vibe.

598
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:22,439
Speaker 4: Though.

599
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 3: Faraz Con apparently gets fed up with this ghost cat

600
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 3: eating all his birds and maybe eating the goat was

601
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 3: the last straw. So ten days past, almost two weeks,

602
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 3: he goes to the local authorities. He calls the police,

603
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 3: he calls the fire department, he calls the forestry folks.

604
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 3: It's November three, around ten pm, twenty ten. The authorities

605
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 3: all show up. They take this seriously. They get there,

606
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 3: they know there are dead birds and a dead goat.

607
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 3: And when they get there, they say, dang, this ghost

608
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 3: cat ghosted us. It's probably out in the forest somewhere.

609
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 3: We can't find it. It faded from the news. But

610
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 3: the thing that keeps us captivated by this idea is

611
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 3: that these people living in Sanjay Park, they are familiar

612
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 3: with the wildlife around them. If they saw something, they

613
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:23,959
Speaker 3: would be able to identify it. They know what kind

614
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 3: of animals might target livestock, and they said, look, we've

615
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 3: seen wildcats before, this is not a wild cat. So

616
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 3: in this case, our verdict has to be again unknown.

617
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 2: Well, it stinks because if you had, if you just

618
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 2: had some wild like house cats, right, even domesticated house

619
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 2: cats that were hanging out in that area, they could

620
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 2: take down those pigeons easy. I've seen it happen. I

621
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: have seen a cat jump in the air on like

622
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 2: a porch and an apartment, you know, just that one

623
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 2: of those tiny little areas, just jump up, grab a

624
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 2: bird out of the air and just pull it down.

625
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 4: Those little fellows are like cruise missiles, man, you know,

626
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 4: they seek and destroy.

627
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 2: But but you have people who have this, as you said,

628
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 2: been like. They know the difference. They see something that

629
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 2: is not a cat like that. It's also not a

630
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 2: cat like just a bigger regular cat. It's something different.

631
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 3: Not a cat like that.

632
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 4: And I think it's probably pretty clear already. But we're

633
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 4: not saying these people were stupid either. We're not saying

634
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 4: these people were like all bugaboo and confused. They just

635
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 4: didn't have access to the same wealth of like the

636
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 4: whole of human civilization that we do you know, so

637
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 4: they were having the kind of make it up as

638
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 4: they went along.

639
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 3: Also, given that this is twenty ten, you know, these

640
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 3: folks are very well aware of what surrounds them and

641
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 3: they're also they also wanted to be an animal. They understand,

642
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. This is not a Bigfoot fan.

643
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 3: This guy is a dude who was out a significant

644
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 3: amount of capital. Because forty five pigeons, that's a lot

645
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 3: of pigeons. Also, do you know the going price on

646
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 3: a goat, because let me spoil it for you, it

647
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 3: is kind of expensive if you live in that part

648
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 3: of the world. It's like someone stole your car, you

649
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 3: know what I mean, You're not happy about it. You

650
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 3: just lost your camera.

651
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 4: And this just give you, guys goat sucker vibes like

652
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 4: chuop Ofcabre type vibes as well. I mean, that's a

653
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 4: big part of the reporting on the Cheep Ofcabre is

654
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 4: that it was killing livestock and then it becomes this

655
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 4: like boogeyman almost you know.

656
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, as a matter of fact, let's take a break

657
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 3: for a word from our sponsors, and then we're going

658
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 3: to introduce you to one of the most adorable of

659
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 3: India's cryptids. We've returned, okay, Loris. You guys know what

660
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,959
Speaker 3: the laurus looks like. Like, it's weird. It's got big eyes.

661
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 3: It's always been.

662
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 4: The trees, right, He's got a.

663
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 3: Lords always look like a laurus. Always looks like it's

664
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 3: scheming like a raccoon. You know. They got hands. They're

665
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 3: just close enough to human hands.

666
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 4: The meer cat vibes almost like a meer cat mixed

667
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 4: with a sloth.

668
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 2: Perhaps, Yeah, because they are they they're even called like

669
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 2: the slow loris or the loris. I mean that's the

670
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 2: way they're colloquially known, right, Yeah, but yeah, it just

671
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 2: makes me think of a sloth or just a cute

672
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 2: little guy.

673
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 4: It's just challenge it.

674
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 2: Look, man, don't don't bother me. Just trying to get

675
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:41,280
Speaker 2: some fruits and some leaves.

676
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 4: It's a little sad. You got big old, we big

677
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 4: old dark circles around it. And it looks like a

678
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 4: little hang dog.

679
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 3: It looks like you, what's the tree? You know, it

680
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 3: looks like it what's a tree? Which we're fine with.

681
00:40:55,800 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 3: This idea of the tailed slow Laurus is fascinating because

682
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 3: it's originally reported in the Lushai Hills of Assam State,

683
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 3: and there is an actual photograph of this creature. There

684
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,280
Speaker 3: are no extravagant claims about this. The primary difference between

685
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 3: a tailed slow Loris and the other slow lords of

686
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 3: the world, it's just that it's in the name. It

687
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 3: has a tale, white, possibly prehensile are There is a

688
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:32,800
Speaker 3: genuine photograph that came from like capture in eighteen eighty

689
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 3: nine when it was a common animal. It was first

690
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 3: reported in writing in nineteen oh eight or nineteen oh two,

691
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 3: early twentieth century. And the dude who captured these animals

692
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 3: got two of them and then sent it off to

693
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 3: his friends in London. He has a name we have

694
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 3: to share with everyone. His name was Thomas Henry digs

695
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 3: Letouche loves to who.

696
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 4: I can't, Okay, So I mean, so again, we're just

697
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 4: making it clear. The Loris is a subfamily of primates, right,

698
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 4: I mean, this is like an app absolutely you know,

699
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 4: documented creature. But we're just talking about one slight, little

700
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 4: little twist on the loris that turns it into a

701
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 4: cryptid because we don't have record of this variation.

702
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 2: This is the way I'm imagining, you, guys. I imagine

703
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: this Laura's thing. But then I think about a lemur,

704
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 2: and you know the tail of a lemur, which is

705
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 2: very scientific one. Yeah, I think about that, but that's

706
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 2: not how they described and what the well, the picture

707
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 2: is a little hard to make out. What part is

708
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 2: the tail, right, I think if we're kind of objective

709
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 2: about it. But the way it's described is like super bushy, right,

710
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 2: not like a Lemur's tale.

711
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 3: Like different, right, Like the Lemur's tale is often used

712
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 3: for balance, right, because they're a boreal meaning they live

713
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 3: in trees. But the Laura's here, the slow loris they

714
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 3: have kind of like a stubby tail, you know, like

715
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 3: sometimes the humans are born with a vestigial little bump

716
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 3: at the end of their cocksix or do some.

717
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 4: Cats too, right? Or maybe wait, are cats born without tails?

718
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 4: Or they just been cut off? I'm sorry this is.

719
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 3: I think they're usually cut off. I'm sure there are

720
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 3: some stuffy tailed cats.

721
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 4: No bad one which still still exists. His name is Robert.

722
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 4: He he lives good friend Frank. I think I think

723
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 4: Robert as well.

724
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 3: But Robert had a little stumpy tail.

725
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 4: And I believe that there are, you know, very cruel

726
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 4: practices that involve cutting off the cat's tails. But I

727
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 4: do I gotta wonder though, if there are cats that

728
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 4: maybe are born without tails, whether it be like some

729
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 4: sort of mutation.

730
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 3: You might have accidentally adopted a luries.

731
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:46,320
Speaker 4: Maybe so so.

732
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 3: Sorry, I'm just thinking of all those types people have

733
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 3: mistakenly adopted an animal that they thought was a dog

734
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 3: or a cat, learned it was something different.

735
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 4: Genetic mutation. By the way, it is a thing. It is, okay,

736
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 4: But you got to wonder if that's something that we

737
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 4: see too, you know, rare mutations that lead to this

738
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 4: type of identification as like something that we don't know about.

739
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 3: Slightly prescient. Yeah, So the story is our buddy digs

740
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 3: litche He and his crew uh. He and his crew

741
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 3: captured two of these specimens. They reported that they were

742
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 3: familiar with them uh and that it was common to

743
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 3: see this type of lord around. They caged the animals,

744
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 3: but due to their wait for it, slow movements, they

745
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 3: didn't bother to escape proof anything. It's like if you

746
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 3: capture a sloth, are you worried it's going to run away?

747
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 4: To really take them to lift the latch, she would

748
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 4: just like that scene in Zootopia where the sloths work

749
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 4: at the DMV and like the stamp. Yea, so it's

750
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:50,760
Speaker 4: so funny.

751
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 3: So they messed up though with this creature, which again

752
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 3: is documented. There is a photograph. As soon as the

753
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 3: human turn away, these purportedly slow little guys saw their chance.

754
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 3: They got out of the cage and they high tailed

755
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 3: it quickly back to the forest. Since that moment in

756
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 3: eighteen eighty nine, they have never been seen again. We

757
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,879
Speaker 3: don't know if they're still out there. We don't know

758
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 3: if maybe they were a specific genre of life form

759
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 3: that died out due to human predation or human pressures.

760
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 3: But I like what you're bringing up, nolwhich is prescient.

761
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 3: There is the idea, or there is the possibility that

762
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 3: this was the result of an isolated mutation, an ata

763
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 3: astic gene triggering tail growth in a small number of individuals.

764
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 3: How kind of like how malungeons have creepy stuff.

765
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 4: Going on, right, I guess that's funny. I think of

766
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 4: maybe a mutation that will cause a tailed animal to

767
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 4: not have a tail, to be a little bit simpler mutation,

768
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 4: but one that actually gives you a taiale out of nowhere.

769
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 4: Maybe that one's like more of like a supermutation, like

770
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 4: you like a superpower, and then you got a wonder too. Evolutionarily,

771
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 4: if the tail ended up being a functional thing, maybe

772
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 4: that species evolves to have the tail because that becomes

773
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,320
Speaker 4: a you know, a desirable trait.

774
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 3: If you see one, don't kill it, don't eat it,

775
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 3: don't pull a Darwin, get a photograph.

776
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean?

777
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 3: Such a flexer. He totally ate those animals.

778
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:23,760
Speaker 4: And he loved every bite.

779
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 3: So what do you think, gents? Is this going to

780
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 3: be a two parter?

781
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 4: It's a great place to divide it because we've got

782
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 4: some coming up. There are a lot more in the

783
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 4: super dark kind of weirder realm and maybe resemble some

784
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,439
Speaker 4: things that we know from other even you know more

785
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 4: you know you United States centric views of kryptids. Oh dude.

786
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 2: The that map that we found that we mentioned at

787
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 2: the very top of this episode has things like about

788
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 2: creatures that have bioluminescence that shouldn't, creatures of all different

789
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 2: shapes and sizes, and weird stuff that we got to

790
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 2: get into. So yeah, we definitely need more of this.

791
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, And I mean, just to tease the first

792
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 4: one we're going to talk about on the next episode,

793
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 4: The Monkey Man of New Delhi might interest you if

794
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 4: you've seen the Dev Patel film Monkey Man, which is

795
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 4: out in theaters now, where he's like this fight club

796
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 4: type avenger who is totally capitalizing on the mythology of

797
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 4: this cryptid. Yes the most Yeah.

798
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 3: Also, Oh, there's so much to go into with the

799
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 3: Monkey Man. That's one of my favorites. We don't have time.

800
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 3: We got to save it. We want to take a

801
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 3: second and think truth is fiction hyt on Reddit Truth

802
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 3: is Fiction yt Your awesome cryptid map of India helped

803
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:40,280
Speaker 3: inspire a lot of tonight's conversation. We have more stories

804
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 3: to explore in depth. There's so many we didn't get to.

805
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 3: Each of these, each of which has their own rich mythology,

806
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 3: fascinating parallels to known biology, or degrees of symbolism, especially

807
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,280
Speaker 3: with the Monkey Man relating to the societies in which

808
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 3: those stories were told. We can will go in to

809
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 3: the feedback loop in a future episode, which is very

810
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 3: important to understand. We hope you tune in. If you

811
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 3: enjoyed tonight's episode, be sure to also tune in for

812
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 3: our upcoming exploration of trolls not the ones online as well.

813
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 3: As we can finally announce it on air. We're doing

814
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 3: We're doing the Reptilian conspiracy. Yeah fine, like ten years late.

815
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 3: We're diving into the Reptilian conspiracy. We would love your help.

816
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 3: Tell us your favorite cryptids. If you are a person

817
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 3: who has lived in India, if you have family in India,

818
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 3: especially in some of the areas we named, we'd love

819
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 3: to hear from you. We try to be easy to

820
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 3: find online.

821
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,760
Speaker 4: So easy you can find into the handle conspiracy stuff

822
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 4: where we exist on Facebook. We have our Facebook group

823
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 4: Here's where it gets crazy that you too can be

824
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 4: a member of. We are also conspiracy stuff on x FKA,

825
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 4: Twitter and maybe most importantly, I don't know, they're all

826
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,879
Speaker 4: probably equal importance. YouTube or you can find some really

827
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 4: fun video content rolling out every single week, conspiracy stuff

828
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 4: on TikTok and Instagram. We're conspiracy Stuff show.

829
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 2: There is a phone number and you can call it

830
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 2: and you can leave us a voicemail. The number is

831
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 2: one eight three three st d WYTK. When you call in,

832
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 2: give yourself a cool nickname, and then you've got three

833
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 2: minutes say whatever you'd like. Please include whether or not

834
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 2: we can use your name and message on the air.

835
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 2: If you've got more to say than can fit in

836
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 2: that three minute message, why not instead send us a

837
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 2: good old fashioned email.

838
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 3: We are the folks who read every single email we get.

839
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 3: Be well aware of friends. Sometimes the void writes back.

840
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,839
Speaker 3: We want to thank everybody who has taken the time

841
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:46,479
Speaker 3: to send us fantastic pieces of correspondence. We cannot wait

842
00:49:46,520 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 3: to hear from you. You specifically conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

843
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

844
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:18,239
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845
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,200
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