1
00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:05,440
Speaker 1: In the past several decades, Andrew Livers has been one

2
00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,719
Speaker 1: of the most important figures in American business. For fourteen years,

3
00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,880
Speaker 1: he served as a CEO of Dow, transforming that company

4
00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,240
Speaker 1: from a chemical manufacturing company to one led by science

5
00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,520
Speaker 1: and innovation. Currently, Andrew Livers is involved in a number

6
00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,160
Speaker 1: of business endeavors, including serving as chairman of Lucid Motors

7
00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:24,880
Speaker 1: in e V startup company. He also serves as an

8
00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,720
Speaker 1: advisor of the Saudi Sovereign Wealth Fund. I sat down

9
00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,280
Speaker 1: with Andrew recently in Lucid showroom in New York to

10
00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:34,400
Speaker 1: discuss his accomplishments and his future ambitions. So I've interviewed

11
00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,320
Speaker 1: many business people on the show, but very rarely have

12
00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,959
Speaker 1: I interviewed anybody who has any interest in so many

13
00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,040
Speaker 1: different continents. So you're doing something in Saudi Arabia, we'll

14
00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:47,520
Speaker 1: talk about that. You're involved in things in Europe, in Australia,

15
00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,559
Speaker 1: your native Australia. You are now the head of the

16
00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,320
Speaker 1: Olympic Committee. Is that right for the next Olympics in

17
00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:56,720
Speaker 1: Australia Brisbane Olympics. They won the bid last year and

18
00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,600
Speaker 1: on the president of that to put it in place,

19
00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:04,240
Speaker 1: and you know it's ten years, so that's an exciting project.

20
00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,160
Speaker 1: In the United States, you were for quite some time,

21
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,679
Speaker 1: more thin a decade the CEO of Dowd Alchemical. Initially

22
00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,000
Speaker 1: that we're called Dow and you merged it with DuPont

23
00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,920
Speaker 1: before you step down. Isn't right, correct? So let's go

24
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:20,280
Speaker 1: back to your beginning. You grew up in Australia. How

25
00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,520
Speaker 1: did you manage to get to Dow and to the

26
00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:27,120
Speaker 1: United States. Yeah, the the gene that got me to

27
00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,959
Speaker 1: have wonder lust was because I grew up in a

28
00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:34,640
Speaker 1: little multicultural town in northern Australia called Darwin. Lots of Asians,

29
00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,880
Speaker 1: lots of Indigenous people, First Nations people, lots of immigrants

30
00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,759
Speaker 1: like Greeks that came from these very poor areas. So

31
00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,959
Speaker 1: I had this desire to go see where they were

32
00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:50,560
Speaker 1: from and understand the places north of US, Indonesia, China, Asia,

33
00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:54,200
Speaker 1: and as a whole, the American into into you know,

34
00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,280
Speaker 1: if you like. Uh knowledge that I got was listening

35
00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,240
Speaker 1: over the radio to know things like the jfk assassination

36
00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,000
Speaker 1: and Man on the Moon, and you know, we didn't

37
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,280
Speaker 1: have TV where I grew up, so I was just

38
00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,440
Speaker 1: fascinated by America. And what had offered the world. So

39
00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,680
Speaker 1: that combination got me recruited out of campus. I didn't

40
00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,960
Speaker 1: join a British company. I didn't join an Australian company.

41
00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,840
Speaker 1: The companies that came by that were American were the

42
00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,120
Speaker 1: ones that I was intrigued by, and Dow had the

43
00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,000
Speaker 1: best recruiting line of them all for one year old,

44
00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,359
Speaker 1: join us and we'll show you the world. So that

45
00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,800
Speaker 1: combination of where I grew up, what I was exposed to,

46
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,120
Speaker 1: and the Dow recruiting line. Because your family a wealthy family,

47
00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:39,440
Speaker 1: no blue collars, we would call them immigrants. My father

48
00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,000
Speaker 1: we lost our grandparents. He lost his parents and so

49
00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,200
Speaker 1: he raised his two younger brothers. When he was twelve,

50
00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,840
Speaker 1: he became an apprentice and a carpenter, and he and

51
00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,960
Speaker 1: his two brothers built a small fledging building business in

52
00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,760
Speaker 1: Darwin and Um. I was the first to go to

53
00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,359
Speaker 1: university in my family. Grant with university and you go

54
00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,720
Speaker 1: to work at Dow and in Hong Kong. Initially ull

55
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,360
Speaker 1: they sent me down to a very cold part of

56
00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,640
Speaker 1: Australia called Melvine, which happened to have a lot of

57
00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:09,760
Speaker 1: Greek people. I got cold redefined when I went to Michigan,

58
00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,280
Speaker 1: but I thought it was cold at the time they went.

59
00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,280
Speaker 1: I went there for six months and there was an

60
00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,480
Speaker 1: accident in a factory in Hong Kong and they sent

61
00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,800
Speaker 1: four Australian engineers. I was wanted them to go work

62
00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,200
Speaker 1: to actually help the locals adjust to operating a complex

63
00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,080
Speaker 1: chemical environment. And so now is a very famous chemical

64
00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,240
Speaker 1: company was for quite some time. And how do you

65
00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,240
Speaker 1: go from Hong Kong with this Australian accent to an

66
00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,880
Speaker 1: American company in the middle of the United States. The

67
00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,680
Speaker 1: visionaries that ran down in the sixties that led to

68
00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,040
Speaker 1: my recruitment in the seventies had this view that to

69
00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,960
Speaker 1: go international yet to hire local well before it was vogue,

70
00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,640
Speaker 1: and they went around the world looking for people who

71
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,080
Speaker 1: were willing to go to these far flung locations. Hong

72
00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,440
Speaker 1: Kong at that time wasn't a sophisticated city that it

73
00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,480
Speaker 1: is today. And basically, you know what they did was

74
00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:05,720
Speaker 1: they localized and grew talent locally, but kept a playbook.

75
00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,800
Speaker 1: So I was spotted early by the then Dow leaders

76
00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,880
Speaker 1: and they started to move me around to test me

77
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,560
Speaker 1: in different places, mostly in Asia and then eventually to

78
00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,520
Speaker 1: the U s where you're trained as an engineer. What

79
00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,520
Speaker 1: was your skill set? Chemical engineering? Which you know, when

80
00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,400
Speaker 1: I look at today's world and I think about chemical engineering,

81
00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,200
Speaker 1: the word chemical sort of sort of puts you into

82
00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,720
Speaker 1: a different place with the thought, it's really problem solving engineering.

83
00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:32,919
Speaker 1: And I learned how to be a problem solver about

84
00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,480
Speaker 1: learning chemical engineering. So you eventually moved to now headquarters

85
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,960
Speaker 1: where is? It's in Michigan? Right? But what what small city? Is?

86
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,640
Speaker 1: A little town called Midland where the founder founded the

87
00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,080
Speaker 1: company and we're still headquartered there, right, So you moved there?

88
00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,039
Speaker 1: And for how many years were you the CEO? So

89
00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,880
Speaker 1: just shire fifteen? Of course the last couple were in

90
00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:58,480
Speaker 1: the merged entity, which my successor. Then we've set up

91
00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,360
Speaker 1: the d merger and we can talk about that if

92
00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,640
Speaker 1: you like, But certainly the fifteen years included the last

93
00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:08,560
Speaker 1: two as executive chairman of the DuPont entity. But I

94
00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,080
Speaker 1: led us into the merger and the rationale behind that

95
00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,599
Speaker 1: was a ten year remake. We put a strategy in

96
00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,280
Speaker 1: place at oh five uh, and we executed over ten

97
00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:23,239
Speaker 1: years to move us back to an innovation centric company.

98
00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,160
Speaker 1: We had lost our way, we had commoditized, we had

99
00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,080
Speaker 1: rested on the laurels of all our previous inventions. And

100
00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,560
Speaker 1: by the time the nineties and the os came around,

101
00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,760
Speaker 1: we were really our innovation chest was bare, our cupboard

102
00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,160
Speaker 1: was bare. So we reconstitute an innovation in the company

103
00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,960
Speaker 1: by changing the portfolio. So you took down chemical, you

104
00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,000
Speaker 1: renamed it Dow at one point, took the chemical out

105
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,120
Speaker 1: of it, and then you merged it with du Pont,

106
00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,679
Speaker 1: and then you split the company into three different companies.

107
00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,960
Speaker 1: Is that right? Yes? So too amazing American iconic companies.

108
00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:01,600
Speaker 1: Three hundred so years of corporatetory between them. Um DuPont

109
00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,600
Speaker 1: founded on explosives, Dal founded on you know, chlorine. Um.

110
00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:07,919
Speaker 1: You think about the corporate history and both of those

111
00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,800
Speaker 1: the portfolios they both had assembled by the time we

112
00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:16,039
Speaker 1: hit this century were across a range of different applications

113
00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,279
Speaker 1: and there were many things, too many markets. So what

114
00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,560
Speaker 1: the premise of the case was, working with their green

115
00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,520
Speaker 1: on the DuPont side, as we put the two together

116
00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:29,240
Speaker 1: and separate them into more pure plays, so Dow Materials,

117
00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:34,000
Speaker 1: the Agg company agricultural products, and of course the DuPont Company,

118
00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,400
Speaker 1: the new DuPont Company on specialty chemicals and plastics. And

119
00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:39,839
Speaker 1: you step Down as CEO of Down a number of

120
00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,200
Speaker 1: years ago. Did your wife's say, when you're done being

121
00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,520
Speaker 1: the CEO is the time you've spent more time with

122
00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,560
Speaker 1: me and stay at home and now you're running around

123
00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,880
Speaker 1: the world. So was she disappointed or she happy to

124
00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:50,719
Speaker 1: have you out of the house there? Did she expect

125
00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:55,760
Speaker 1: me to retire? No? She knew me better. The story

126
00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,920
Speaker 1: on the Olympics is a classic. That call came I

127
00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,479
Speaker 1: don't know two months ago on a Saturday, We're in

128
00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,480
Speaker 1: Sydney in our living room, I got a call from

129
00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,440
Speaker 1: the Premier of the State of Queensland saying we'd like

130
00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,760
Speaker 1: to offer you the presidency of the Olympics. I said,

131
00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,480
Speaker 1: excuse me, And you know I was aware of Brisbane

132
00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,200
Speaker 1: at one so I didn't embarrass myself. But um, I said,

133
00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:18,920
Speaker 1: can I get back to you. Can you tell me

134
00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,160
Speaker 1: a little more and I'll get back to you. Yeah,

135
00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,440
Speaker 1: but we want to announce it on Monday. Stop. Okay.

136
00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,520
Speaker 1: So anyway, my wife said, who's that? And I told

137
00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:30,720
Speaker 1: her and she said, looked to me in the face

138
00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,360
Speaker 1: and said you've got to take it. And I said,

139
00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:36,720
Speaker 1: you know how busy I am? Right? And she said,

140
00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:38,680
Speaker 1: I know how busy you are, but you've got to

141
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,240
Speaker 1: take it because you're the right person to get it done.

142
00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,360
Speaker 1: And if it means you've got to drop some things,

143
00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,720
Speaker 1: drop some things, but take it. That's the type of

144
00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:47,560
Speaker 1: partner I have. How did you wind up to be

145
00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,920
Speaker 1: the chairman of an automobile company when you hadn't really

146
00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:54,200
Speaker 1: been in that industry. I think the manufacturing thematic that

147
00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,280
Speaker 1: I had throughout my whole career, wrote a book on it,

148
00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,440
Speaker 1: making it America UH made me an attractive Canada to

149
00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,360
Speaker 1: a whole host of different companies around the world, whether

150
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,480
Speaker 1: it be board or advisory. Um. Certainly the lucid experience

151
00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,240
Speaker 1: was something I didn't predict, but it came really through

152
00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,720
Speaker 1: my association with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, who with

153
00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,960
Speaker 1: a major investor in l Tiva, the predecessor lucid Um.

154
00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,200
Speaker 1: I got asked by the p a F to come

155
00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,760
Speaker 1: in and help rebuild the company and create what you

156
00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,280
Speaker 1: see here, which is a full fledged EV company. First

157
00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,960
Speaker 1: greenfield site e VS Tesla did a modified site right,

158
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,000
Speaker 1: so we built a greenfield site and it's up and

159
00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,880
Speaker 1: running right now. So manufacturing was a big piece of

160
00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:43,199
Speaker 1: my expertise that it was attractive to joining the lucid experience.

161
00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,520
Speaker 1: So Saudi A Ramco is now the most valuable company

162
00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,000
Speaker 1: in the world. Is that right? Yes? And your involvement

163
00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:51,920
Speaker 1: is that you're on the board of it. Yes. And

164
00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,840
Speaker 1: you see energy prices or oil prices coming down at

165
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,720
Speaker 1: any time in the near future, you think they're going

166
00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,000
Speaker 1: to be over hundred dollars a powerful quite some time.

167
00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,000
Speaker 1: Look commodity markets, as you must know well known your

168
00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,320
Speaker 1: storied career, David, impossible to give you an answer other

169
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,439
Speaker 1: than you know, the most important dynamic of them all

170
00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,920
Speaker 1: is climate change and CEO two emissions and how can

171
00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,000
Speaker 1: we make oil and gas for that? A man of

172
00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,680
Speaker 1: cold before, But I think coal is destined to be

173
00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,600
Speaker 1: phased out. But all in gas and our addiction to

174
00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,360
Speaker 1: it and the transition that is needed to get c

175
00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,280
Speaker 1: O two out of the air will eventually damp and

176
00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,800
Speaker 1: demand EVS, which I'm sure we'll talk about soon. EVS alone,

177
00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:36,400
Speaker 1: electrification of the transportation market will see a dampening of demand,

178
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,679
Speaker 1: But it's impossible to predict in a short term. How

179
00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,200
Speaker 1: do you predict a war Russia Ukraine and the effect

180
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,680
Speaker 1: that it had on commodity prices? So we do. We

181
00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,040
Speaker 1: will go through periods, a zigzagged line, if you like,

182
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,160
Speaker 1: a pricing for some years to come. And I can't

183
00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:52,520
Speaker 1: tell you whether it's going to be high or low.

184
00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,400
Speaker 1: No one can. But Sara Arabia, which has an enormous

185
00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,040
Speaker 1: amount of oil, seems to be interested in finding ways

186
00:09:58,080 --> 00:09:59,760
Speaker 1: to do things that are not related to the oil.

187
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,960
Speaker 1: Electric vehicles is one of them. I guess that right. Yeah.

188
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,280
Speaker 1: Diversification the vision that was put in place and you're

189
00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:11,160
Speaker 1: you're quite familiar with by His Highness the ground prints

190
00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,480
Speaker 1: has has a big piece of it to diversify away

191
00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,319
Speaker 1: from oil and to go into other businesses and other

192
00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,320
Speaker 1: activities that might be related, so chemicals and plastics and

193
00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,920
Speaker 1: downstream creating a circular carbon economy hydrogen and going to

194
00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:31,920
Speaker 1: the green economy solar renewables, his general wind, nuclear power.

195
00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,840
Speaker 1: This diversification on the energy mix is a big part

196
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:39,079
Speaker 1: of the vision and that's what Ramco and others in

197
00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,640
Speaker 1: the Kingdom are driving. Let's talk about Lucid for a moment.

198
00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,280
Speaker 1: Here the chairman of Lucid and it's an electric vehicle company.

199
00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,440
Speaker 1: Um Tesla seems to be so far ahead of everybody else.

200
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:50,400
Speaker 1: How do you compete with Tessa when they have such

201
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,000
Speaker 1: a large share of that market. This is a technology business.

202
00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,320
Speaker 1: So in your earlier question about how did I get involved,

203
00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,280
Speaker 1: I said manufacturing. Well, manufacturing is an interesting word being

204
00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,199
Speaker 1: used for a couple hundred years in humanity, as we

205
00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,160
Speaker 1: obviously went up the technology ladder. Humans are inventive and

206
00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,840
Speaker 1: innovative because of technology advantages. Lucid offers a technology advantage

207
00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,560
Speaker 1: and beats everyone right now and it's being recognized for it. Firstly,

208
00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,600
Speaker 1: is the distance we can travel without needing, you know,

209
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,479
Speaker 1: to charge, and that's over five miles ep a certified.

210
00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,480
Speaker 1: Second is our charging time. We can actually get a

211
00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,720
Speaker 1: recharge of up to three miles in twenty two minutes.

212
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,440
Speaker 1: That's technology. Those two topics are all about technology. The

213
00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:39,520
Speaker 1: car and it's surrounds is esthetically beautiful, it drives fantastically.

214
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:44,199
Speaker 1: It's absolutely totally a luxury car and clearly in experience

215
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,679
Speaker 1: and the software that supports it is also technology. So

216
00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,360
Speaker 1: what we've been doing at Lucid is homing in on

217
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,120
Speaker 1: the technology side of differentiation. Is there room for a

218
00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,400
Speaker 1: Tesla or a Lucid and a bunch of others? Of course,

219
00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,160
Speaker 1: I mean we are going to see e v s

220
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:03,000
Speaker 1: as the prim remotor transportation in our lifetime. Where does

221
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:09,120
Speaker 1: Lucid manufacturers cars Arizona, Cassa Grande Arizona just outside of Phoenix.

222
00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:11,920
Speaker 1: And if I wanted to go buy one, where do

223
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:13,800
Speaker 1: I go buy one? You buy him online or you

224
00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,559
Speaker 1: come the showroom like this and they cost about five

225
00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,040
Speaker 1: thousand dollars a piece or something like that. You are

226
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,520
Speaker 1: in the right place to buy one. We can maybe

227
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,640
Speaker 1: hopefully solve your one as you leave the We have

228
00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:31,920
Speaker 1: a retail strategy. We go directly retail and service centers

229
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,480
Speaker 1: around the country. We're opening up retail centers as we

230
00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,640
Speaker 1: speak in Europe, but we have them in the United States.

231
00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,000
Speaker 1: And this is an example of one. And know the

232
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,120
Speaker 1: price point is not five thousand dollars. We have a

233
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,600
Speaker 1: price point at the high end, luxury end. Our competition

234
00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,920
Speaker 1: is Porsche BMW out You're trying to be an electric

235
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,640
Speaker 1: vehicle for high end car at this point in time.

236
00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,440
Speaker 1: That's our strategy. We've got the Dream, the Grand Touring,

237
00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,240
Speaker 1: We've got the Air and then the SHUV the gravity.

238
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,920
Speaker 1: These price points north of a hundred thousand dollars with

239
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,520
Speaker 1: the Dream at about one seventy thousand. But clearly that's

240
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,199
Speaker 1: the luxury and the mass market end where General Motors

241
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,880
Speaker 1: and Ford and others are, you know, pointing themselves. Is

242
00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,400
Speaker 1: obviously the big opportunity will eventually get there, but we've

243
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,880
Speaker 1: made no announcements, and you have one of these corners

244
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,800
Speaker 1: I do. I was an early buyer at full price.

245
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,320
Speaker 1: I felt it was important that I demonstrate my support

246
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:33,120
Speaker 1: for the team. I'll never forget the the amazing drive

247
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,160
Speaker 1: I had in it. Have it down in Florida where

248
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,280
Speaker 1: my residences. I drove it, drove to Palm Beach and

249
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,400
Speaker 1: drove around there, and every time I stopped, I had

250
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,280
Speaker 1: people looking at me, and I knew it wasn't me.

251
00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,160
Speaker 1: It was clearly the car. And then I parked it,

252
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,800
Speaker 1: and I will kid you not, it was like a

253
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,880
Speaker 1: mob scene around me. It was one of the I

254
00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,120
Speaker 1: think it was the second car in Florida, so clearly

255
00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,040
Speaker 1: had not been seen. I valet parked it at this

256
00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,240
Speaker 1: hotel where I was in dinner, and the gentleman wanted

257
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,400
Speaker 1: to compete with the other gentleman to valet park that

258
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,000
Speaker 1: can I drive it? Can I drive it? And as

259
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,240
Speaker 1: I said, you know what, maybe I should puck it myself,

260
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:13,120
Speaker 1: and so it's it's it's an attractive car and it

261
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,160
Speaker 1: really drives supremely. Well, let's talk about the roads on

262
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,920
Speaker 1: which these cars drive. So you've been an advisor at

263
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,520
Speaker 1: the president United States on infrastructure and manufacturing. But on infrastructure,

264
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:24,760
Speaker 1: you've been involved with the legislation that was pay used

265
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,840
Speaker 1: not long ago. Why is the United States infrastructure so

266
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:32,240
Speaker 1: terrible compared to so many other wealthy countries. Well, you know,

267
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,920
Speaker 1: I have been around US politics like you for a

268
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,720
Speaker 1: couple of decades and have served a variety of presidents

269
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,040
Speaker 1: from the different parties, and and the attitude in the

270
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,800
Speaker 1: United States is obviously to keep taxes low and keep

271
00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,800
Speaker 1: the public spend under control. And the word control is interesting,

272
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,760
Speaker 1: but that stops forward thinking in terms of planning, and

273
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,800
Speaker 1: therefore the short termism around our fiscal policies has heard us.

274
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,960
Speaker 1: I mean, in essence, infrastructure is a long term return

275
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,760
Speaker 1: and and to get a long term return, putting it

276
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,200
Speaker 1: into private hands is one way of doing it. But

277
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,040
Speaker 1: really the public side of life has to be willing

278
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,320
Speaker 1: to blew the forward spend, the forward spent on airports

279
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,920
Speaker 1: and roads and e V charging stations has to come

280
00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:22,720
Speaker 1: from the public domain. Now, raising taxes to spend money

281
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,880
Speaker 1: on infrastructure means you've got to trust the people doing

282
00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,600
Speaker 1: the spending. And I think the public private model is

283
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,920
Speaker 1: the way to go there, which is actually create an

284
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:36,320
Speaker 1: infrastructure bank that the US public company owned or public

285
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,960
Speaker 1: sector owned, that has private sector matching funds. I think

286
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,720
Speaker 1: that sort of breakthrough has yet to occur in the

287
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,320
Speaker 1: United States. So where we go is tax and spent,

288
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,760
Speaker 1: which unfortunately one side of the aisle disagrees with. So

289
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:50,840
Speaker 1: what is it that you look back on your career

290
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:52,680
Speaker 1: with and say, this is what I'm most proud of

291
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,120
Speaker 1: having done. As you know the old adage, right, who's

292
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,800
Speaker 1: at your bedside in that final gasp, you know it's

293
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,960
Speaker 1: it's your close family and and and you know, obviously

294
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,880
Speaker 1: I'm very blessed that way, But the wider ecosystem. Last

295
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,720
Speaker 1: night I did a one hour interview of Irvan Kristner,

296
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,920
Speaker 1: the CEO of IBM to my Academy of Credit, an

297
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,680
Speaker 1: academy and my alma matter. Uh and it's to teach

298
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,920
Speaker 1: year olds. And lately we've been introducing postgrads leadership in

299
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,680
Speaker 1: the modern century. But do you think business leaders have

300
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,720
Speaker 1: an obligation to do more than just make profits for

301
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,200
Speaker 1: their shareholders. Do you think they should be more socially responsible,

302
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,760
Speaker 1: more worried about e s G. Than years ago? The

303
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,760
Speaker 1: rules are changing, what should be the new rules? Who

304
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,840
Speaker 1: knows who's working on them? Is a just government? No?

305
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:48,440
Speaker 1: Is it just business? No NGOs, no citizens? Yes, but

306
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,840
Speaker 1: many of them don't know how to direct their their inputs.

307
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,680
Speaker 1: So the collective needs to get together. How problem is

308
00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:01,320
Speaker 1: top down isn't working. Top down institute sans are not

309
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,760
Speaker 1: winning over the people they are affecting. So bottom up

310
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,600
Speaker 1: needs to occur and meets top down in some way.

311
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:14,399
Speaker 1: Which is what? Which is awareness groups, community sessions, town halls,

312
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:19,480
Speaker 1: knowing what your employees think, being available to them, ubiquitously

313
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:24,400
Speaker 1: communicating to get the sentiment. What's the sentiment? The sentiment

314
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,760
Speaker 1: is what's going on out there in terms of inequality,

315
00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:32,959
Speaker 1: lack of inclusion, this notion on environmental responsibility, digitalization, and privacy,

316
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,640
Speaker 1: the issues of our time need to be integrated into

317
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:40,359
Speaker 1: your strategy. Now, your first book was about manufacturing and

318
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,160
Speaker 1: manufacturing of something in the United States has thought by

319
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,360
Speaker 1: many people not to be as good at as we

320
00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,040
Speaker 1: were forty fifty years ago. Is that fair or not

321
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,080
Speaker 1: that that's the perception at least, Yes, that's fair, and

322
00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,600
Speaker 1: I addressed it in the book because we think smokestacks

323
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,480
Speaker 1: and we think of rivers on fire when we use

324
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,840
Speaker 1: the word branding is everything, and today everything gets branded

325
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,480
Speaker 1: in a heartbeat right through Instagram and you name it.

326
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,280
Speaker 1: And as a result of that, there's a perception that

327
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:10,640
Speaker 1: manufacturing is yesterday's sector. And that is so erroneous because

328
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,080
Speaker 1: pretty much everything in modern life is made. I like

329
00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,520
Speaker 1: I used to say, now we've only got three functions, okay,

330
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,840
Speaker 1: to invent, to make, and to sell. The rest is overhead,

331
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,119
Speaker 1: and the make part is actually very connected to the

332
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,000
Speaker 1: invent part. China was brilliant in its strategy through the

333
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:35,360
Speaker 1: thirty years of densil being because it attracted assembly and

334
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,760
Speaker 1: then insisted on R and D. There were only ten

335
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,720
Speaker 1: R and D labs foreign owned in China. By two

336
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,119
Speaker 1: thousand and ten there were forty thou foreign R and

337
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,800
Speaker 1: D labs. Why because they wanted to know not just

338
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,960
Speaker 1: how to make an assemble, they wanted to invent all

339
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,320
Speaker 1: the way back to the material, to the actual the battery,

340
00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,080
Speaker 1: to the products. And to do that they needed R

341
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,360
Speaker 1: and D. Manufacturing R and D live together, Okay, they

342
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,840
Speaker 1: live together through prototyping and scaling, and the topics of

343
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:11,480
Speaker 1: invention and innovation are in manufacturing because you actually learn

344
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:15,400
Speaker 1: while you make, and then when you digitize you learn more.

345
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:20,040
Speaker 1: Digitizing manufacturing is a massive innovation opportunity. And frankly, one

346
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:21,879
Speaker 1: of the things that the United States is for normal

347
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,520
Speaker 1: at is we know how to innovate and be an

348
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,160
Speaker 1: entrepreneurs and how to scale. But if we've lost our

349
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:32,479
Speaker 1: billy to actually make, then we start to atrophy the

350
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,320
Speaker 1: innovation side. The conventional wisdom is that the United States

351
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,280
Speaker 1: can't manufacture things at costs that are attractive to markets,

352
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,320
Speaker 1: so that's why we've outsourced it. You think that's unfair.

353
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,119
Speaker 1: It was fair during what I call the loss of

354
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:52,160
Speaker 1: industry such as textiles and footwear and clothing, which were

355
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,399
Speaker 1: very labor intensive. It's completely not the case with things

356
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,840
Speaker 1: that make the iPhone okay, and all the circuitry and

357
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:06,280
Speaker 1: semiconductors and high end technology content parts e vs. This

358
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,400
Speaker 1: is where the United States is actually the best at

359
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 1: and it's not labor cost driven. So offshoring and outsourcing

360
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,440
Speaker 1: and and moving things for labor costs. Fine, they went

361
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 1: to countries that have lower labor costs, the Bangladesh and

362
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:25,680
Speaker 1: the Vietnams. But the high end manufacturing, the quality manufacturing

363
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,240
Speaker 1: for two days and tomorrow's technology innovations, we should be

364
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 1: the epicenter of that right here in this country because

365
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,399
Speaker 1: the labor cost is actually not the relevant cost. The

366
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,440
Speaker 1: relevant cost is actually the raw material, the supply chain,

367
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,280
Speaker 1: and we have the market. This is one of the

368
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,440
Speaker 1: few countries in the world that can say I'm one country,

369
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,880
Speaker 1: I have a massive market and by the way, I'm

370
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,440
Speaker 1: endowed with a lot of people and natural resources. That's manufacturing. Now,

371
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 1: you were an immigrant through the United States and your

372
00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:00,399
Speaker 1: grandparents were immigrants to Australia. Immigrants has often said have

373
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,480
Speaker 1: a capacity to work very hard, to prove themselves to

374
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 1: move up the ladder. So do you feel you have

375
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 1: an immigrant mindset that has pushed you to do all

376
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,680
Speaker 1: these things? I think my story as growing up in

377
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,120
Speaker 1: an immigrant family where English wasn't the first language at home.

378
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 1: It was Greek and speak Greek? Do I do? Yeah?

379
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 1: And that useful a lot, I guess when you're talking

380
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,360
Speaker 1: to the Olympic committees, never thought of that, but yes,

381
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 1: it's probably useful for that. I think the immigrants backstory

382
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 1: I have really drove me to work hard, but also

383
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 1: to make a difference and a very American trade. What

384
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 1: attracted me to America this very day, and I don't

385
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 1: want to embarrass you, you're a great example of it,

386
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 1: is the amazing giving back that occurs in this country,

387
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,880
Speaker 1: and not enough of us know a lot about it.

388
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 1: It gets a bit a few headlines. So I mentioned

389
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 1: the tax and spend thing as being a detriment to

390
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 1: building modern infrastructure. But they on the other side, Americans

391
00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:01,119
Speaker 1: are charitable and give and care about making a difference

392
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 1: in their community. That's what Dow showed me, and that's

393
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 1: what I and my wife Paula and I live today.

394
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 1: That American way to an immigrant means that for the

395
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 1: next immigrants I can make that we can make their

396
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,919
Speaker 1: life better. So for somebody's watching this who wants to

397
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 1: be a successful global business leader, what are the skill sets?

398
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 1: Is it hard work? Learning how to read well, keep

399
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: continuously reading, learning, how to be a good speaker? What

400
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: are the skill sets that you think somebody really needs?

401
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 1: One of the things that I would add to that list,

402
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 1: I agree with all of that that I would do,

403
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 1: and I still do to this very day, is I

404
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: would prepare well before I got the job or was

405
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 1: given the nod. I would know as much about what

406
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 1: I was about to be offered or to do before

407
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 1: I actually did it. I would read, I would talk well.

408
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 1: Before the days of the iPhone, I would go to

409
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 1: the library. I remember my father knocking on the door

410
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 1: was the Encyclopedia Britannic as salesman. Remember those books. There

411
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,360
Speaker 1: were twelve of them, right, and I would begged him

412
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 1: to buy them, and he said, only if you read

413
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 1: them all. And I read them all, and I was.

414
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 1: I was twelve and so so I think preparing so

415
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,199
Speaker 1: that when you get the right to talk, you have

416
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 1: the podium. When you have the right to say something,

417
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 1: you actually have the knowledge to speak to it. I

418
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,120
Speaker 1: think people have gotten bored with facts, so you've got

419
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: to blend it with interest. So personalize the facts, show examples,

420
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 1: and then demonstrate it yourself. I think that cycle of

421
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 1: teaching needs to be introduced, certainly in no education system,

422
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: but in real life, what did your parents say to

423
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: their neighbors? We have an unusual twelve year older sitting

424
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: here reading the ends likely Pedia Britannica. It wasn't an

425
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: era where you were told to read. You know, these days,

426
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: of course, parenting is forcing kids to get off the

427
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,959
Speaker 1: TV and reading. But no, it was nothing I already noticed.

428
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: I wasn't seen as odd. Thanks for listening to hear

429
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: more of my interviews. You can subscribe and download my

430
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen