WEBVTT - Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend-June 13th, 2020 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:06.480 This is Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Hello, I'm 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:08.920 Jason Kelly and I'm Carol Masser. Welcome to the weekend 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:11.680 edition of Bloomberg Business Week. Over the next couple of hours, 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:13.360 we're going to bring you some of the most important 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:16.959 conversations we had throughout the week on our daily radio show. 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:19.640 And Jason, it was week thirteen, and I do feel 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:21.239 like you know you and I talked about this a 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:23.520 lot throughout the week. We kind of took a moment 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:26.920 to take in what's happened over the past thirteen weeks 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:29.319 and really the past three weeks. We had that big 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:31.560 market rally off the March bottom, we had a pause 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.800 in stocks. This week, we continue to talk about reopenings. 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.320 Of course, the virus and then racism continue to dominate 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:41.159 so many of our conversations. All of this we know 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:46.520 have business, economic, financial, and of course societal impacts. That's 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:48.879 our week. I think to say in a nutshell, a 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:52.720 big and complicated and uneasy nutshell. Well, and I think 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:55.040 that we are living in historic times. I know that 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:59.040 that's glib to say at many moments, but I think 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:01.880 if you look back to the beginning of this year, 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.760 where we expected to be in what we expected to 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:10.240 have done by this point in We figured we'd be 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:14.080 pretty focused on an upcoming presidential election, which we are, 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:16.600 but this was also a week where we saw an 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:21.399 absolute mess down in Georgia, my home state, around their primary. 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:24.280 We see all this evidence, as you've alluded to too, 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:29.959 structural inequalities that came up even in the discussions around 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:32.399 the Federal Reserve meeting. Remember we had one of those 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.959 two with coming out, and he certainly had an effect 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:39.200 on the market. So we put all of those issues 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:42.360 and it is complicated to so many of our guests, 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:44.080 and you're going to hear from a lot of them 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:46.399 over the course of this show. That's right. Our featured 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:48.800 interviews and stories in the magazine this week got to 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:53.080 all of this. So that included a big interview that 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:55.400 we had about reopening right New York began. New York 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:59.080 City began phase one of a reopening, of course, home 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:03.040 to Bloomberg head quarters, in home to so many companies, 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:06.560 especially within the financial and real estate community. We caught 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:10.880 up with Kent Swigg of Swig Equities UM about how 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:13.119 the real estate market can bounce back. He of course 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:16.560 has properties in the city, residential commercial also on the 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:19.000 West coast, really throughout the country. So a good voice 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:22.440 to check in on. Absolutely, Cathy would of our investment. 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:25.600 She's one of the best performing investors over the last 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:30.120 few years. A bull on disruption and innovation. I think 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:32.960 it's fair to say. And we also can't lose sight 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:35.840 of something you mentioned, which is we are still in 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.480 the midst of a global pandemic. We were reminded of 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:41.760 that this week Dr Seth Letterman. He talked to us 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:45.240 about finding a vaccine that's going to be key to 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:47.919 all of this as we continue to grapple with COVID 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:51.000 nineteen plus. Jason, how America can begin to heal after 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:53.760 weeks of civil unrest. Someone who knows so much about 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:57.120 it has been really fighting um for those who are 0:02:57.200 --> 0:02:59.840 lost in our society. Jason Flam was back with us 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:03.360 talking about the vulnerable populations again and how they are 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:07.000 being disproportionately impacted. So an important voice. First up, let's 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.840 take you inside the magazine. It's a takeover of the 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:14.320 finance section. It's reflected in the cover art. It's looking 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.160 at the run up in the stock market against the 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.440 backdrop of the virus. The economics shutdown, the civil unrest, 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:22.280 and still many unknowns about our outlook. And it really 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:26.160 is still quite a run up off those March low's Jason, 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:27.840 because even though we saw a little bit of a 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.680 pullback this week, we still have had a significant bounce back. 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:34.120 Oh it's unbelievable just to watch it. And we wanted 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:36.640 to understand exactly all the mechanics behind that, so we 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.480 turned to the man himself, Joel Webber, the editor of 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:42.720 Bloomberg Business Week. So Joel, walk us through what we've 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:46.440 been seeing over these months, especially over these past few weeks, 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:51.000 as main street and wall streets seem to diverge a bit. Yeah, 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.160 I mean, I think that's really the heart of the idea. 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:57.200 And as we were talking about what was happening, it 0:03:57.280 --> 0:03:59.119 was sort of like the you know, and I've said 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:00.960 this before in the fro him is like the I 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:05.320 think the stock market as just really desperately wanted, uh, 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:10.280 the coronavirus stuff to just be over and end and 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:14.600 and move on, and it's really behaved that way since 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:17.800 the low on March twenty three, and you just kind 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.120 of like our the cover, we just kind of put 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:22.080 all the bad news that we could find on the 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:27.279 cover from the six point new million job the six 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:31.120 point nine new million, six point nine million new jobless 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:35.320 claims that were followed immediately by six point six million more, 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:39.719 the oil plunging into negative stuff, the g g DP 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:42.960 being negative five, unemployment rate fourteen point seven. It was 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.120 just like headline after a headline after a headline of 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:49.240 bad news, and yet the stock market just a sn'b 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:53.440 just kept climbing higher like it was none of it mattered. Um, 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:56.200 And we just said, you know, that is like this massive, 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:58.719 This is the great disconnected, And that was our cover 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.200 line for listen aked a lot about you know, big 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:04.520 time investors, well known investors, John Paul Paul, Tutor, Jones 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:06.960 and so many others who you know, we're fighting the 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:10.440 bounce back and talking about you know, safe ascets like 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:13.720 gold and safe havens and so on, and then finally said, okay, 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:17.360 I can't fight it anymore, basically, So it's really been 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:21.280 a remarkable bounce back to watch. Yeah, and actually you 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:23.919 know you you brought up professional investors in there, and 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:27.000 and the it really has been reach out investors. And 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:28.800 we spend a bit of time in the package talking 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:31.960 about you know, what's been happening with Robin Hood traders 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:36.039 and our hurts phenomenon, where we've got bankrupt companies and 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:39.039 their stocks are trading for pennies, and there's just all 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:42.440 kinds of enthusiasm. I think, you know, people stuck at 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:45.479 home with UH with without much to do, and you know, 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:50.520 gambling on stock um has become such an InVogue phenomenon 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:53.560 again UM. And you know, that's like one of the 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:56.920 little weird things about this market right now is how 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:01.520 much enthusiasm um retail it seems the really driving things 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:05.200 all right. Joel Weber, We really appreciated Joel Weber, the 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:09.320 editor of Bloomberg Business Week, joining us on the phone 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.920 and listen. I think we saw it play out, this 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.920 disconnect in so many ways, and I feel like it 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:19.200 got even more complicated to some extent with the civil 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.440 unrest that we've seen, Carol, and people really wondering what 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:24.200 the way forward is well, and I think about how 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:27.640 many conversations we had with various investment professionals and even 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:31.160 you have CEO s about how do you reconcile you know, 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:33.800 what's been going on because of the virus, the shut down, 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:36.839 the economic impact and still so many questions about what 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:38.920 the revival looks like on the other side, and then 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.240 add that on top of it, how do you reconcile 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.680 that with you know, what seemed to be NonStop gains 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:48.000 in equities, So a really timely takeover of the finance 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.080 section in the magazine. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.040 coming up reopening New York City real estate with Ken 0:06:54.120 --> 0:07:03.599 Swig of Swig Equities. This is Bloomberg Face is Bloomberg 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:07.800 Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:09.560 Today we're bringing you some of the most important, we 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.920 hope informative conversations we had on our daily Bloomberg Business 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:16.320 Week radio show, all about where we are at this 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.880 moment thirteen and three. Carol, we've been talking about thirteen 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:23.640 weeks at home away from the office, three weeks since 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:27.360 we as a nation have really been wrestling in what 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:32.640 feels like a meaningful and maybe permanent way with inequality 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.480 and race relations on a level we certainly haven't seen 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:37.720 in our lifetimes. And an important voice Jason, that we've 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:40.080 turned to several times just before or just as the 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.680 virus was kicking in uh and actually throughout it is 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:46.720 Kent Swigg. He's president of Swig Equities, a real estate 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:49.080 development an investment from They're based in New York City. 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:52.840 They've got commercial and residential properties around the US, New York, 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.800 San Francisco, and more So great to check in with 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:59.920 him about reopenings and really just the world at large. 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:01.760 Think one of the biggest things that we have to 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:04.400 do is to be able to see things and call 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.360 them like they are. And we have to accept reality 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:09.600 and not we're not looking at a at a warp 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.920 reality or a fake reality. We're looking at a reality 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:15.600 that that's occurred, and it touches all of us as 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:19.240 humans um and I think it is touched and awakened 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:22.440 the inner souls of all of us in America. And 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.520 people have gone on the streets, they're they're they're peacefully 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.920 demonstrating there, they're making themselves known. And then we have 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:33.560 to continue to feel that inner, inner, inner twitch in ourselves, 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:39.240 so we act on what we've seen. And I wonder, 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.960 in your estimation, Kent, how all of this and this 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.240 is a big question that will probably start and then 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:47.880 come back to it in a few minutes, but how 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:49.560 does that change in New York City. I mean, this 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:52.840 is a city that you know, has so many elements 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:55.040 to it, so many great elements to it, but also 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:58.800 is a reflection of many of the inequalities that we 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:03.839 face as a country. Well. Look, New York City is 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:06.880 an amazing place. It is one of the only places 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:11.120 on Earth that has a collection of every single country, 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:14.319 every single almost country in the world because of the 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:17.160 United Nations, so all of us are here. And I'll 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:19.080 tell you the unique thing about New York is this 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:22.120 at two in the morning, when there's not a car 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:24.959 on the road and there's a red light, guess what 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.800 people do. They stop and wait for the green light. 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:30.760 Right in their own countries. They may do a lot 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.440 of bad things, but they sit and stop at a 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:36.319 red light waiting for the green to occur. In other words, 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:39.000 we have a certain value system and I think it 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:43.199 is ultimately expressed in in New York um as much 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.640 as the United States. And that is what we need 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:48.520 to harbor. We need to harbor the concept of doing right. 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:52.360 And if you look at the highest ranking police officer 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:54.880 in New York City who got down and prayed with 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:57.920 the protesters, that is the ultimate reflection of who we 0:09:57.960 --> 0:09:59.960 are in New York, so we're we do it every day. 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:01.600 What we need to be able to do is to 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:03.880 be able to be back outside and working and being 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:06.640 with each other and and supporting each other so we 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:08.720 can make a change in the world. We talked about 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.120 for our New York audience about JP Morgan and they're 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:15.719 building this huge new headquarters. Is it a mistake, like, 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:18.840 is everybody going to leave the city or will some 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:21.640 workers leave the city? Will companies rethink, you know, spending 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:23.559 a lot of money on price New York City real 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:27.360 estate and move out to the burbs. Well, I think, 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:30.000 first of all, it's a perfect question, and and the 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.920 JP Morgan building is the epitome of that question. So 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:37.760 this is in my opinion, UM, all of those questions 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.920 are valid, and all of them will be rethought many, 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:44.199 many times by many all the corporations around. Will New 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:48.319 York City prosper absolutely, because one thing we've got fundamentally 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:51.240 is that we've got an energy level and a pace 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:55.360 that is very attractive to everyone. So if you look 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:58.000 at two seventy, will it be repopulated by time it's 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:02.559 built and up the pandemic? Unfortunately, UM, with all its 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:06.200 tragedy and everything will be an afterthought of in terms 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:08.960 of what the business community is doing going forward, not 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:10.600 that it's not going to be a big impact in 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:13.920 our lives, but when we have a therapy, a medical therapy, 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:16.599 so if we have the virus, who won't die and 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.199 ultimately a vaccine, people will be back to work. It 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:22.040 will be led by young people, and it will be 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:24.720 energetic to New York will prosper and thrive like it 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:27.160 has in the past. And the thing that we can 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:31.600 find working at home can be very efficient and very effective. 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:35.000 But what we don't have is creativity and opportunity when 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.440 we work at home, because we don't have the ability 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:40.680 to go meet with people every day. If I'm working, 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.880 as as one of my son's friends is working in 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:46.840 fixed income and he wants to go meet a boss 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:49.480 that is not in fixed income, he has no way 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:51.320 to do that. When he's working at home, he speaks 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.400 to his boss, he works very effectively, but the opportunistic 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:57.760 time of meeting somebody in walking into the office or 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:01.280 at the office or at a coffee place doesn't doesn't function. 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:05.080 It doesn't happen, and we lose creativity and opportunity. Yes, 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:07.560 it could be efficient that it's going. It's it's it's 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:12.480 very straightforward and stagnating for for an opportunistic country like ourselves. 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:17.440 So I am optimistic. Um, I'm very realistic of the 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:19.800 challenges we have right now and the pain and suffering 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.600 we're going through, but we will overcome it, and we 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.160 will be back in center. Sin cities will will take 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:29.720 their hold back as leader leader leaders of the world again. Yeah, 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:33.520 And I guess I wonder tent about sort of a 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:37.440 a middle road to some extent where and I think 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:39.080 you've probably read and heard a lot of the same 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:41.960 things and probably many more things than than I have 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:47.240 about you know, maybe some second tier quote unquote cities, 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:50.040 some smaller cities being able to take advantage of this 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:53.040 to some extent, and not in a way that hollows 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:55.640 out a New York City, but that does give some 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:59.920 opportunity to places where the cost of living maybe a 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.040 little bit lower. We were already seeing that in some 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:05.720 of the Nashville's and other sort of places in the world. 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:09.440 So I wonder how you see that evolving. I think 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:11.760 that absolutely is gonna happen, and certainly it's gonna happen 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:13.839 over the next twenty four months or thirty six months, 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:16.840 because until this really gets past us, we're all gonna 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:19.520 be work and looking at New York alternatives. And we 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:21.400 have a friend Jonathan who came up with the other 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:23.720 idea to me the other when we're speaking to him, 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:28.760 um or just that that companies may end up taking 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.880 some space as swing space in another part outside of 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:35.160 New York City. You could have an office in Long 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:37.560 Island with a lot of your staff are commuting from 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.240 Long Island. You can have an office in Long Island 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:42.800 and one in Manhattan, and those people that can work 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:45.360 two or three days a week in the office in 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:47.760 in Um, in Jericho or wherever it is on Long 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.280 Island or and then come into New York City for 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.520 the balance of the time. UM. So there are many 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:55.000 different ways of doing it. That's Ken Swig, president of 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.840 Swig Equities, and Jason, Yeah, you know, he is someone 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:01.199 I do remember that Friday the third teenth, back in March. 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:05.719 It was our last in studio broadcast and Kent was 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.400 there when the virus. We we talked about that the 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:10.880 you know how we thought it might impact our world, 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:12.840 and then we talked to him again. I think about 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.920 a month or so later in April, and here we 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:19.280 are again now, you know, as we are reopening our world. 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:21.440 So great to kind of, you know, go with him 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:23.920 through all those different perspectives. Yeah. The last time you 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.080 and I saw each other we saw Kenswick, uh, fair 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.360 to say, which is interesting. Yeah, And also you know, 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:31.480 this is a guy who has seen New York City 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:33.880 go through so many things. And I think New York City, 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:37.600 we know, not just susceptible when it comes to the pandemic, 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.800 but also has been susceptible to a lot of the 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:44.280 inequalities that we have seen laid bare, the protests that 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:46.600 we saw, some of the violence that we saw even 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:50.240 in our neighborhood there around Bloomberg headquarters. So it was 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.920 interesting to catch up with him in a very holistic way. 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:55.240 You're listening to Bloomberg Business We coming up the chairman 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.520 and CEO of Tonics Pharmaceuticals on the race for a 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:02.360 coronavirus facts see one of many companies in that race. 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:09.760 This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:13.400 Carol Masser and Jason Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. We're bringing 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:16.000 you some of the most important and informative conversations throughout 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.480 the week that we had on our daily radio show, 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:20.720 dealing about so many different issues. Of course what's going 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.440 on in the markets, uh, the civil unrest that we 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:27.680 continued to see, the virus, and of course reopening society. 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.520 But I have to say, Jason, we couldn't forget because 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:33.200 the tallly's on the virus. They continue and parts of 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:36.840 the United States, we saw those numbers going up absolutely 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.200 and we're all looking towards a vaccine, and we wanted 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:42.440 to get a gut check on that. Candidly, we wanted 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:44.320 to talk to someone who's actually in the midst of 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.520 doing that work. So we caught up with Dr Seth Letterman. 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.760 He's the chairman, CEO, and founder of Tomics Pharmaceuticals. He 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:54.280 talked about how they're working one of many companies to 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:59.760 manufacture a vaccine. I would say generally that people should 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:02.880 air on the side of caution. It's it's hard to know, 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:08.240 um what's safe and what's not safe, but people making 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:14.160 individual decisions should be cautious. I think that I find 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:18.680 some of the information compelling that being outside is better 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:22.320 than inside with people. I think that, uh, stay six 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:26.239 ft apart wearing a mask and hands are all very important. 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:33.920 So this new thought about asymptomatic transmission is something that 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.840 people can put into an equation, but I wouldn't use 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:42.600 that to engage in any behaviors that don't follow the 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:46.640 basic tenants help us understand what's realistic, what you are seeing, 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:51.520 and how this development, which feels different to those of 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.080 us who don't normally pay so much attention to how 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:58.680 vaccines are created, how it is or isn't different from 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:00.720 what you normally seek well for So, I think that 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:05.040 there's a remarkable effort going on all over the world, 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:13.000 many companies, and it's really exciting to see how governments, nonprofits, 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.600 companies have come together with the common goal of doing 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:21.200 something about this. I agree with the general belief that 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.199 we really can't get back to work and back to 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:28.160 school and in the same way that we now look 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:32.080 back on it's called normal until there's a vaccine. So 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:36.760 a vaccine is very important and one of the exciting 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:40.920 aspects of this that so many different technologies are being tested. 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:45.119 I think it's realistic that there will be a vaccine 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.520 either late this year or early next year, but I'm 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:51.000 not sure that that would be the vaccine that will 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:56.720 ultimately win market acceptance and the confidence of doctors and patients. 0:17:57.280 --> 0:17:59.760 So there's an element of the tortoise and the hair 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.680 where there are some companies that are very fast out 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.399 of the gate, they have exciting technology, but there are 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.639 other companies like ours that are going more slowly and 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:14.040 have different technologies. And I think that COVID nine team 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:16.560 will be with us for a long time, so it 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:20.120 will be possible to figure out which vaccines are best 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:23.040 in the public health sense. Explain the science. As you say, 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:26.560 there's different technologies for the virus, So explain that, because 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:30.000 you're right, there is this huge race going on the 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:33.320 government is involved to what are the different technologies we're 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:37.520 talking about, you know, and how that affects the efficacy 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:41.960 of an ultimate vaccine. I think the simplest way to 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:46.800 do to divide the different vaccine technologies that are out 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:50.960 there um is to think about the two main components 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:55.480 of the immune system, and that is either antibodies or 0:18:55.640 --> 0:19:01.119 T cells. And I think that vaccines are designed to 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:06.280 stimulate either antibody responses or T cell responses. Antibody responses 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:12.040 are shorter lived and tend to stop an infection from happening, 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:17.359 and T cell responses are longer lived but tend to 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:21.919 eliminate an infection after it's happened and also clear the 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:26.320 bloodstream and the body of the virus. Now, those are 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:31.600 the extremes. Just about every vaccine will have elements of both. 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:34.399 But I think that dividing them up into whether something 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:37.560 is more antibody or more T cell focused is a 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:41.120 good way to do to divide the many technologies being 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:43.080 thrown at this. Do we need both or do we 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:45.359 need the T cells, which to me sounds like a 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:50.360 bigger deal. Both and um but but there there are 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:54.600 flavors within both. But for example, it's probably true that 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:57.600 an antibody test is a good sign that someone has 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:01.639 recovered from the illness and as level of immunity. But 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:06.520 antibodies without key cells is probably not a solution. And 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:09.600 that's Dr Seth Letterman, the chairman CEO of Tonics Pharmaceuticals, 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:11.400 and Carol. I think you and I both walked away 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:13.880 from this conversation thinking, all right, I understand a little 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:17.320 bit more about the science here, the possibilities, but also 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:21.679 the complexities of this. So much of our world we 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.440 know it's easy to distill things down to what we 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:26.680 just get a vaccine and everything gets back to normal. 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:29.480 More complicated than that, and certainly the road to get 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:32.000 there is long and winding. Well, I loved how we 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:35.359 got into the different technologies for the virus antibodies versus 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:37.960 T cells, and you know, you really need to understand 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:40.920 this to figure out what will be the most effective 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:44.280 vaccine and maybe multiple vaccines that will need to really 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:46.920 get ahead of the coronavirus. So I'm so glad we 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:49.480 got some time with him. You're listening to Bloomberg Business 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:52.240 Week coming up next. I call him a friend of 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:54.760 the show, Jason flam He's a founding board member of 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:58.679 the Innocence Project on Racial injustice, and we caught up 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:01.320 with him once again to talk about the impact of 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:04.280 the past three weeks reminding us about how those most 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:09.080 vulnerable populations are targeted really unfairly. He's a job. This 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:16.159 is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:19.880 Masser and Jason Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. Well, today we're 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:21.720 bringing you some of the most important and we hope 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:24.920 informative conversations we had on our daily Bloomberg Business week 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:29.680 radio show across the week, and it feels like every 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:33.639 conversation we have Carol is complicated in many ways. You know, 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:35.919 we spent so many weeks saying, all right, how are 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:37.879 you dealing with this pandemic? How are you dealing with 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:40.600 it personally? And now there's a whole other layer, and 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:43.439 it's a complex one. And so going back to some 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:46.239 of our tried and true voices and voices who are 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:49.240 right in the midst of this feels that much more important. Well, 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:51.639 one of those voices, Jason, is Jason flam He's the 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:54.240 CEO and founder of Lava Records, founding board member of 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:57.280 the Innocence Project. He's also host of the powerful podcast 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:00.240 Wrongful Conviction. He spoke with us about the death of 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:04.000 George Floyd and the resulting civic unrest as once again 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:08.960