Speaker 1: I'm Manny.
Speaker 2: Noah, this is Devin, and this is no such thing.
Speaker 2: The show where resettle our dumb arguments and yours by
Speaker 2: actually doing the research. Today's question is it okay to
Speaker 2: wear you're outside clothes on your bed. We go beyond
Speaker 2: the vibes and actually sense up swabs to a lab.
Speaker 2: We have the results back from the lab.
Speaker 3: We can't wait.
Speaker 1: No, no, there's no no such thing, no such thing,
Speaker 1: no such thing.
Speaker 2: Okay. So this one, actually, Manny, came up at your
Speaker 2: birthday party. We were talking about the podcasts and we
Speaker 2: were asking people do you have any ideas that we
Speaker 2: should you know, debate or talk about. And Jordan and
Speaker 2: our good friend, was like, is it actually bad to
Speaker 2: wear outside clothes inside? Like if you're on the train
Speaker 2: and you have like clothes and you sit down your bed,
Speaker 2: are you actually tracking in a lot of germs? Well,
Speaker 2: let's let me back up. Growing up, it was very
Speaker 2: much a thing in my house where my parents would
Speaker 2: be like they were like outside clothes and they were
Speaker 2: like inside clothes. So if you went outside to play
Speaker 2: in clothes when you if you came inside and you
Speaker 2: were in for the day, yeah, you would change your
Speaker 2: clothes because the clothes that you were previously wearing have
Speaker 2: outside dirts in germs, and this.
Speaker 4: Is like no matter what you were doing, not like okay,
Speaker 4: you were you know, in.
Speaker 3: The mud playing sports.
Speaker 4: No, yeah, this is just like not extreme, but you know,
Speaker 4: yeah exactly in the yard.
Speaker 2: Like going to school, right, like the clothes that you
Speaker 2: wore to school if you were like and this is
Speaker 2: not like okay, middle to day, I'm in the house
Speaker 2: for two hours. I got to change the clothes. This
Speaker 2: is like, okay, I'm not going out again for the day. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: you would put on inside clothes let's call I don't
Speaker 2: know that they had a name.
Speaker 1: Just change your clothes.
Speaker 2: Yes, you wouldn't wear the same clothes you went to
Speaker 2: school with to like hang out at night at home.
Speaker 2: And then there's also on top of that, like in
Speaker 2: almost no situation would you ever wear your outside clothes
Speaker 2: on your bed or sit in your bed wearing clothes
Speaker 2: that you weren't outside. Those are rules I had grown up.
Speaker 2: I will say I didn't always follow those rules, right,
Speaker 2: Like I feel like college, in your dorm room, you
Speaker 2: don't have like a couch, right, So it's like if
Speaker 2: your friends come over, if you're hanging out, like people
Speaker 2: just sit on your bed.
Speaker 1: Yep, I'm sorry in that headspace, are you thinking this
Speaker 1: is bad and gross? But I just kind of don't
Speaker 1: care right now? Or it was always you were just
Speaker 1: following a rule your parents had.
Speaker 2: I would say, up until somewhat recently, I was just
Speaker 2: following a rule that like we had growing up. But
Speaker 2: now as a like a natural adult, now yeah, no,
Speaker 2: now I think it's gross.
Speaker 1: It's just gross.
Speaker 2: Like if you guys came over and sat on my bed,
Speaker 2: on your bed, I was like, Okay, what's going on here? No,
Speaker 2: I'm just going to assume that this was not a
Speaker 2: thing in your house.
Speaker 4: No, No, I mean, speaking as a white man, Yeah,
Speaker 4: it just wasn't obviously it would only be like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 4: you're clearly dirty from something.
Speaker 2: So your parents never explicitly were like definitely not outside.
Speaker 4: Never a rule like that for like general yeah cleanliness
Speaker 4: in that way.
Speaker 1: No, in my experience, it's you know, my mom always
Speaker 1: wanted us to be clean, like come home, like shower,
Speaker 1: change clothes at times. But I don't think it had
Speaker 1: to do with like germs that came from outside that
Speaker 1: are now on the furniture or the bed. It was
Speaker 1: more like you stink.
Speaker 2: Like did you ever get the you smell like outside?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: And that was when I when we played you know,
Speaker 1: all my siblings played for its growing up, and so
Speaker 1: like that's a little different than just commuting somewhere. But
Speaker 1: like that's to me, when you would smell like outside
Speaker 1: is like sitting in the hot sun or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're doing an outside activity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So in those instances, definitely, my mom's like, don't
Speaker 1: even don't even think about talking to me before you
Speaker 1: take a shower first smell there. But if I were
Speaker 1: just going to school and I came back home and
Speaker 1: like sat on my bed, I don't think my mom
Speaker 1: would think anything of it. And I'm interested in in
Speaker 1: this kind of uh, this this feeling because to me,
Speaker 1: I'll ask you a question. If I commuted to your apartment,
Speaker 1: why is why would I be allowed to sit on
Speaker 1: your couch but not your bed. I mean, you're a
Speaker 1: lot of time on your couch. If you're worried about
Speaker 1: your bed, I don't know why you.
Speaker 2: Just shouldn't have people over that. Yeah, at that point,
Speaker 2: you're gonna give me a beer, like hants like come.
Speaker 1: Over, yeah, or like I guess some people have those
Speaker 1: couch covers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I guess when I'm on my couch, less
Speaker 2: of my body is touching the catch, right, yeah, versus
Speaker 2: when I'm in bed, it's like it's just my boxers.
Speaker 3: Does your dog get on your bed?
Speaker 2: He does? And this is a thing, so I that
Speaker 2: my dog on. My dog goes everywhere. And yes, I
Speaker 2: don't have like tables, like you can't sit on this thing,
Speaker 2: but there are so like on my bed there's the
Speaker 2: ali cover, so like I make my bed and then
Speaker 2: there's a linen cover I have on top of that
Speaker 2: that he stays on. Yeah, so you know, it's like
Speaker 2: to me, it's probably like in bathrooms ready have like
Speaker 2: the toilet bowl, you know, yeah, where you're like probably recover. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like what is this actually doing? Like if the germs
Speaker 2: are really about that life like yeah yeah, but in
Speaker 2: my mind there's a separation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2: Where do we all stand on this current day?
Speaker 1: Oh I don't care. Yeah, people unless you're like smelling bad,
Speaker 1: Like I'm more about like hygiene.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if I come home, I mean yeah again, not
Speaker 4: that many people are over there. If I come home
Speaker 4: after work or whatever, and then I haven't. I'm not
Speaker 4: going to change before I sit down on my bed.
Speaker 4: Like I would never get in my bed under the covers. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I would never get under the covers in my work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be kind of weird.
Speaker 3: Yeah, anyway, that's a different problem.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but like I would, I would definitely sit on
Speaker 4: my bed my jeans or whatever that I wore out
Speaker 4: onto the subway or what have you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm the same way, Like I'm not you know,
Speaker 1: there's there are many times where I'll change before I
Speaker 1: get into bed, but it's not because of the germs.
Speaker 1: It's like just more of a comfort thing, like I'm
Speaker 1: not going to be in my jeans in bed or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I've always been I've always wondered for people who
Speaker 1: are like hardline against it. I'm wondering what's happening or
Speaker 1: what they think is happening in their head where like
Speaker 1: you get on the bed and then the germs that
Speaker 1: are on your clothes are like jumping or transferring to
Speaker 1: the bed and then what, yeah, die, Like what what
Speaker 1: part of is? We live in New York City, one
Speaker 1: of the dirtiest fucking cities in the world. I don't
Speaker 1: my one question about this is like, I think it's
Speaker 1: totally fair and fine if you don't want outside clothes
Speaker 1: on your bed. I wonder if those people know you're
Speaker 1: doing way grosser shit all day.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah sure.
Speaker 1: But I remember I years ago had like a fling
Speaker 1: with someone who just was repulsed, like if I sat
Speaker 1: on the bed, repulsed, like immediately changing the sheets.
Speaker 2: Oh like changing the sheets, like immediately after I left.
Speaker 1: Like cleaning, Like doesn't want anyone to sit on the
Speaker 1: bed if they had just come from outside. And I
Speaker 1: think that's like a problem.
Speaker 4: That's again like like you were saying, it's like what
Speaker 4: what exactly is going to happen to you in your mind?
Speaker 4: Like you're gonna get sick from this?
Speaker 1: You think, Yeah, you know, I've seen people do drugs
Speaker 1: off of like disgusting things and bathrooms and then turn
Speaker 1: around and be like no outside clothes on my head?
Speaker 1: Like what are we talking about here?
Speaker 4: Like what is it?
Speaker 3: Actually?
Speaker 1: What is the germ part of this? How big of
Speaker 1: a role does that play? Or you know, maybe it
Speaker 1: was just a rule that was instilled when they were
Speaker 1: a kidding that's what you do. There's not a lot
Speaker 1: of logic to it like I I'm sure I have
Speaker 1: I do tons of things that are not rational.
Speaker 5: Like other house things that like you were shoes in
Speaker 5: your house, you wear shoes out, typically have the shoes off,
Speaker 5: but like if someone came in and it's not a
Speaker 5: big deal the same way.
Speaker 3: I think it's just more comfortable to be. Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: also yeah, it's a little clean.
Speaker 2: In terms of just like okay, I have to, like,
Speaker 2: you know, mop last night.
Speaker 3: Yeah I would. I wouldn't demand people to like.
Speaker 2: My dog walkers definitely off And I'm like it's fine.
Speaker 4: I'm also curious if say, you lay your dirty clothes
Speaker 4: on your bed on the top of the covers, are
Speaker 4: those germs ever gonna find their way under? And let's
Speaker 4: say you don't have a top sheet for these.
Speaker 2: Purposes, you know top she I mean like we got
Speaker 2: we have top sheets.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I love it because you need it, especially
Speaker 4: temperatures changed the night. I love I can just take
Speaker 4: off this and now it's I'm just in this thing.
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to be uncovered.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's yeah, something on top of me. Yeah.
Speaker 4: So I mean, I'm just curious how how much transfer
Speaker 4: is actually happening. I wonder if there's like a like
Speaker 4: a black light test. Yes, ultimately black light would be
Speaker 4: funny because it would be like, yeah, this is great
Speaker 4: for a podcast. Yeah yeah, exactly, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: After the break, we'll talk to a microbiologists and track
Speaker 2: down a lab that's actually willing to take on our
Speaker 2: silly outside clothes experiment.
Speaker 6: Hey, you've reached money, Noah and devon at no such thing.
Speaker 6: Please leave your message after the beep. I think it's disgusting.
Speaker 7: I won't even stand near the top of my comforter
Speaker 7: with outside clothes on for fear of them touching.
Speaker 8: I think it's acceptable to be on the bed, Like
Speaker 8: if you're grown up and you've got a nice two
Speaker 8: fae and hospital corners and whatever, and you have outside
Speaker 8: clothes on top of all that, I think that's acceptable
Speaker 8: to where outside clothes into bed is not great.
Speaker 9: The only garment that I am keeping on is my
Speaker 9: T shirt from the day. Providing that I haven't been
Speaker 9: sweating profusely, I am absolutely fine to wear that overnight
Speaker 9: and then chuck it in the laundry basket. For me,
Speaker 9: it's like during the winter, your T shirt is never
Speaker 9: really exposed. It's always under a jumper, under a coat.
Speaker 7: Every time a subway drives by, it dusts up all
Speaker 7: the ratshit and human feces and piss from like, you know,
Speaker 7: ten million people or whatever just wafting in the air.
Speaker 7: At the very least, put on different clothes, best case,
Speaker 7: take a shower.
Speaker 6: If I'm having someone over from a date and we're
Speaker 6: not in a relationship so I don't know them met, well,
Speaker 6: it feels really silly to ask them to take off
Speaker 6: their parts. It feels presumptuous. It like interrupts the flow
Speaker 6: of things. But I do scream internally when their outside
Speaker 6: shirt touches my pillow, But ultimately, you know, you gotta
Speaker 6: do what you gotta do.
Speaker 2: All right, we're back.
Speaker 1: I'm Anny, I'm Noah Devin.
Speaker 2: So last time we talked, we were discussing whether or
Speaker 2: not you should wear your outside clothes on your bed,
Speaker 2: and so I want to talk to an expert about this,
Speaker 2: so I reached out to a microbiologist.
Speaker 1: So my name is.
Speaker 10: Doctor Lisa Kuchara. I'm a professor at Quinnipiac University, and
Speaker 10: one of my research specialties is kind of looking at
Speaker 10: full mites, which are is the fancy word for inanimate
Speaker 10: objects which could contaminate us with bacteria.
Speaker 2: So think of like th Knob's uh your phone okay,
Speaker 2: subway poll subway pole game specifically a gaming because you
Speaker 2: get at we've seen you know, So she's she's kind
Speaker 2: of helpful here because we are trying to see if
Speaker 2: our beds are film mights. So maybe unsurprisingly, Lisa describes
Speaker 2: herself as a germaphobe. As a microbiologist, I would probably
Speaker 2: be a germophobe, but she has a unique reasoning for
Speaker 2: being a germaphobe.
Speaker 10: So my germophobia kind of comes from my like my
Speaker 10: fear of missing out, my ability that I don't want
Speaker 10: to be sick, even with things that aren't going to
Speaker 10: kill me. So if I'm going to be say taking
Speaker 10: a plane ride and going through all the things that
Speaker 10: I might be touching, I don't want to get to
Speaker 10: my destination and then spending the time in the bathroom.
Speaker 10: That's not something that I enjoy, and so I try
Speaker 10: to avoid things like that.
Speaker 2: So with that mindset, I was curious, what are something
Speaker 2: to gross things that we encounter and just our day
Speaker 2: to day lives.
Speaker 10: Definitely things that we don't tend to think about, like doorknobs,
Speaker 10: things like menus. So a lot of restaurants have very plasticly,
Speaker 10: very germ ridden menus, and so what do you do
Speaker 10: you eat right after touching this menu? The person before
Speaker 10: you went to the bathroom didn't wash their hands, and
Speaker 10: now you're eating your French fries with your hands.
Speaker 2: So she says she brings hand sanitizer to restaurants for
Speaker 2: that reason, and then she also talked about phones. Phones
Speaker 2: are really gross.
Speaker 10: Yeah, of course, it's interesting that we also take our
Speaker 10: phones everywhere, right, So our phones go to the bathroom
Speaker 10: with us, our phones go to the restaurant with us,
Speaker 10: so we also have to be careful of that. One
Speaker 10: of the things I do with my students is we
Speaker 10: swabbed a lot of phones, and almost all of them
Speaker 10: have fecal matter on them, which means that people are
Speaker 10: washing their hands after they go to the bathroom. They're
Speaker 10: touching lots of things, and yet our phones are with
Speaker 10: us at most meals.
Speaker 1: Oh no, a lot of who that's I don't want
Speaker 1: to hear that.
Speaker 2: Do you wipe down your phones?
Speaker 3: Nope?
Speaker 2: No, no, I mean, what's the last time you left
Speaker 2: down your phone?
Speaker 1: Like if sometimes if I drop food on it, I'll
Speaker 1: wipe yeah.
Speaker 4: Even even then, it's like more wiping it with my
Speaker 4: thumb and not Yeah, it's not to clean the phone.
Speaker 4: It's just so I can see drop ketch up all
Speaker 4: my screen. I might wipe it with I might, but
Speaker 4: I might even just do a little like my thumb
Speaker 4: and just y'all do the.
Speaker 2: You don't do the little lights all wiped the phone
Speaker 2: every once in a while.
Speaker 1: I've never, I really never thought about it.
Speaker 2: Did you do it during COVID?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Damn? Okay, y'all are this is trying to make a
Speaker 2: lot more sense. So in the home, what what do
Speaker 2: you think is like the grossest thing? Wan in the
Speaker 2: grossest thing?
Speaker 1: Then I would imagine the toilet toilet?
Speaker 3: What about like sink sink knobs.
Speaker 2: Sink knobs, okay, a mirror?
Speaker 1: Why I'm just throwing out things that are closer the sink,
Speaker 1: dishes both?
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 1: The sponge, yes, the sponge.
Speaker 10: Yes, so our sponge is pretty disgusting. Most people's sponge
Speaker 10: has more bacteria than our toilet stew. So we do
Speaker 10: microwave our sponge after you know, washing our dishes.
Speaker 2: All right, so micro gavey sponges. Yeah, we didn started
Speaker 2: talking about stuff that we can be bringing into our homes.
Speaker 2: I told her that I use puro wipes to wipe
Speaker 2: Ally's feet before he comes in a house.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. I mean, you're a very person.
Speaker 2: She said that actually helps, and then that led to
Speaker 2: a conversation about whether or not we should be wearing
Speaker 2: our shoes in a home.
Speaker 10: You're in an environment that perhaps you're leaving your shoes
Speaker 10: at the at the front door then having it inside
Speaker 10: and outside pair of shoes. We do that to some extent,
Speaker 10: but like if we're unloading and loading groceries, we don't
Speaker 10: go to that extreme. So we're not completely religious about it.
Speaker 10: But we have on nice, you know, very comfy slipper
Speaker 10: shoes that are inside outside shoes if we needed to
Speaker 10: just you know, step out to pick up something at
Speaker 10: the stoop type of thing, and then we have our
Speaker 10: outside shoes. But like I said, we're not so particular
Speaker 10: about it that if we had to go in and
Speaker 10: out a hundred times that we're going to be taking.
Speaker 2: Out office Yeah, every single time you're going out. Yeah
Speaker 2: that's how now I am too, right, Like I try
Speaker 2: to avoid wearing my shoes inside. But if it's like okay,
Speaker 2: I just got to run and grab something. I'm not
Speaker 2: going to take them off and put them all the
Speaker 2: way back on and retime. Is it more so for you?
Speaker 2: Is it a germs thing or is it more so
Speaker 2: just like you know, if your shoes are dirty, you
Speaker 2: can kind of see the footprints inside, right like it
Speaker 2: shows up on a floor in a way that some
Speaker 2: of these other germs do not. Is that sort of
Speaker 2: you know, your consideration.
Speaker 10: It's threefold. So it is the fact that I don't
Speaker 10: want to be again, I don't want to be spending
Speaker 10: time cleaning my house when I could be, you know,
Speaker 10: enjoying life. So I want to minimize that. Definitely, germs
Speaker 10: that we might be bringing in. And then also any
Speaker 10: pollens or anything like this spring we had a really
Speaker 10: big year with pollens. I know a lot of people
Speaker 10: then bring the pollen in. It's all over there, you know,
Speaker 10: their rugs, it's everything, and then they're wondering why they're
Speaker 10: having such a hard time with pollen season.
Speaker 1: We are currently recording this inside of my apartment, and
Speaker 1: I resonate with what she just said because I'm someone
Speaker 1: who loves to keep the floor as clean as possible. Now,
Speaker 1: you know, as you look at it right now. I
Speaker 1: haven't cleaned in a few days. But I try to
Speaker 1: make it so that you can like walk around here
Speaker 1: in your socks and you look at the bottom of
Speaker 1: your socks and then yeah, so like I really value that.
Speaker 1: And I actually just bought this insane electric mop.
Speaker 3: This is how you know Manny needs a full time job.
Speaker 2: All right, So now we're getting to the question, all right,
Speaker 2: does the microbiologists where outside clothes on her bed?
Speaker 10: I don't so, and it depends on what I'm wearing.
Speaker 10: If I'm outside hiking, then I might actually have bird
Speaker 10: poop on me and we were just photographing and turns
Speaker 10: pooped on me. Definitely want to put those right into
Speaker 10: the washer. Don't want to bring them into the bed.
Speaker 10: So we tend to have clothes that we wear around
Speaker 10: the house, just nice little comfy like sweatpants and T
Speaker 10: shirts that tend to be my inside clothes. What I
Speaker 10: wear to bed would be different than what I were
Speaker 10: outside all day. And again from a point of view
Speaker 10: too of depending on the season in fall and spring,
Speaker 10: the amount of pollen that we could be bringing into
Speaker 10: our beds. I want to have a nice, relaxing sleep.
Speaker 10: I don't want to have to be bringing there's enough
Speaker 10: problems with dust, smites and other things that could be
Speaker 10: interfering with sleep. We don't need to be bringing pollen
Speaker 10: into that equation as well. So to me, the outside
Speaker 10: clothes don't belong, you know, in my bed by what
Speaker 10: I keep the bed as you know, relaxing as possible
Speaker 10: and not introduce things into that environment.
Speaker 1: I'll say this, I'm being convinced by.
Speaker 9: The like.
Speaker 1: The sanctity of your sleep more so than like making
Speaker 1: the bed dirty y because I will say it's like
Speaker 1: she's talking about briefly mentioned like having bird people on
Speaker 1: her or whatever. You know, even people who like to
Speaker 1: have their outdoor clothes on their bed are they're not
Speaker 1: gonna do it if there's literal shit on their clothes.
Speaker 1: But when she's talking about like the pollen and stuff,
Speaker 1: like I do sometimes have trouble sleeping.
Speaker 2: So that's what she does. But I did ask her, like,
Speaker 2: how bad is it in terms of like like you're saying,
Speaker 2: is this just like a vibe thing?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Is there a concern that like there's germs that I'm
Speaker 2: picking out throughout the day, could actually, you know, if
Speaker 2: they get into my bed somehow make me.
Speaker 10: Sick, not so much onto your bed per se, but
Speaker 10: the fact that you could be touching them with your
Speaker 10: hands and then touching your face. So you know, you're
Speaker 10: you're you're thinking again of that fancy word I use
Speaker 10: the beginning full mites inanimate objects that could be transferring
Speaker 10: germs to us. Certainly, if we you know, sit in something,
Speaker 10: touch something, you know, gerre exposed, and our pants legs
Speaker 10: to something, we could then be bringing that into our home.
Speaker 10: The more the concern is that we'd be touching that
Speaker 10: with our hands and then touching our face. If you
Speaker 10: think about something like influenza, it really I could dip
Speaker 10: my hand in a five gallon bucket of influenza. I'm
Speaker 10: not going to get the flu. I'm going to get
Speaker 10: it by then touching my nose or my eyes or
Speaker 10: you know, something along those lines. So the main modes
Speaker 10: that we'd be getting something in is either breathing them
Speaker 10: in or touching our faces or some kind of you know,
Speaker 10: you're eating in bed and you know, bringing something into
Speaker 10: your gastrointestinal system. Our skinned of a pretty good barrier
Speaker 10: against most things. We're really thinking about more the portals
Speaker 10: of entry being up in our head type, you know,
Speaker 10: areas as the main problems.
Speaker 2: One thing she talked about that she does, which I
Speaker 2: started doing since I did this interview, is she puts
Speaker 2: her pillows underneath her comforter so that there is a
Speaker 2: barrier between the pillow. She talks about she has dogs,
Speaker 2: and her dogs get on her bed and they're rubbing
Speaker 2: against stuff because you know, you're laying your head on
Speaker 2: your pillow, so that's your directly. You don't have to
Speaker 2: touch your hand to your face, it's just you're laying
Speaker 2: on it, so that that is a you know, maybe
Speaker 2: if you both won't stop sitting on the bed with
Speaker 2: your outside clothes, maybe you want to put your pillow, yeah,
Speaker 2: underneath your comforter so that there's a little bit of
Speaker 2: a barrier.
Speaker 1: It's good to know that that's a lot cleaner and
Speaker 1: a lot healthier. There's one huge problem with it, though,
Speaker 1: why you don't get the cold side of your pillow, which.
Speaker 2: Is so nice A good Yeah, So, Manny, you brought
Speaker 2: up the fact that people like you know, me and Noah,
Speaker 2: we have dogs, and you talked about other people in
Speaker 2: your life who have dogs, and you accuse them of
Speaker 2: being hypocrites because you're like, how are you coming at
Speaker 2: me about this? And you have a dog. So we
Speaker 2: talked about something that I do, which is I have
Speaker 2: a linen cover on my bed which is the ali cover,
Speaker 2: and he needs to stay on that cover because in
Speaker 2: my mind that's like the toilet sea cover. Yeah, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: and that's the separation that makes sense. Does that cover
Speaker 2: actually do anything in terms of germs?
Speaker 10: It kind of depends on how you're using it. At
Speaker 10: least isn't going to be them on my pillow, them
Speaker 10: on my sheets. I can wash that particular one as
Speaker 10: often as I need to wash it. So the fact
Speaker 10: that I can clean it more often. I have a
Speaker 10: couple of them, so I can easily rotate them in
Speaker 10: and out for washing them.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so you're saying there's not much are you Are
Speaker 2: we gonna see much of a transfer of those germs
Speaker 2: to the germs sort of like because in my mind,
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, it's a separation. Those germs aren't going
Speaker 2: to make it on you, Like you're saying, like onto
Speaker 2: my pillow into the lower layers of the bed. Is
Speaker 2: that true?
Speaker 10: They're not really crawling around there, They're not There are
Speaker 10: germs that would be Morgan contact germs would It's not impossible,
Speaker 10: but it's not likely that that's going to be something.
Speaker 10: So I guess from an outside clothed point of view,
Speaker 10: if you put them on, if you didn't have a dog,
Speaker 10: and you had a comforter on top of your regular comforter,
Speaker 10: that would be able to catch the germs and the
Speaker 10: pollen and things like that as well. But if I
Speaker 10: didn't have a dog, that would be a lot of
Speaker 10: extra work. It would just be easier the out cyclones.
Speaker 1: Wait, that's really insightful. Actually, I did think germs just
Speaker 1: kind of were going on running arounds and stuff.
Speaker 2: Another thing that Manny brought up was, man you thought
Speaker 2: it was ridiculous. You talked about a former flame being set.
Speaker 2: You sat on the bed for five seconds. Is there
Speaker 2: like a five second rule when it comes to you
Speaker 2: know how long someone is to be sitting on your
Speaker 2: bed before that? Those germs transfers are pretty immediate.
Speaker 10: Pretty immediate. First of all, the five second rule was
Speaker 10: debunked MythBusters something long ago. If your lollipop foles in
Speaker 10: the kitchen floor, don't eat it. Certainly, the longer and
Speaker 10: the more jostling you're doing on your bed. The more
Speaker 10: you're going to get transfer going on if you sat
Speaker 10: down for fifteen seconds versus if you laid and rolled over,
Speaker 10: you're going to be transferring more pollen and germs over.
Speaker 10: I guess I would probably think of it as the
Speaker 10: same way of my shoes, Like, we're not ridiculous about it.
Speaker 10: So if I had to, you know, I was outside
Speaker 10: and doing a bunch of things that I had to
Speaker 10: come in and sit on my bed and change something
Speaker 10: or do something, I probably wouldn't, like immediately think about
Speaker 10: cleaning my bedding because it would be a short period
Speaker 10: of time. But I don't think there's a finite line
Speaker 10: that you could say, Okay, if it's less than fifteen seconds,
Speaker 10: you're good, or a period of time, it would be
Speaker 10: accumulative over time. For pollen, any kind of molds or
Speaker 10: any kind of fungus could be immediate. Bacteria kind of
Speaker 10: depends on you know, how much and is it wet
Speaker 10: or is it dry, So their time could play a factor.
Speaker 10: So I would say, if this person is saying that,
Speaker 10: you know, they sat on their bed for fifteen seconds
Speaker 10: and now they felt compelled to wash, they're betting I
Speaker 10: wouldn't go to that extreme, certainly, But at the same time,
Speaker 10: I wouldn't want to be jostling on the bed and
Speaker 10: clothes that I wore outside for a night eat.
Speaker 1: I would like to apologize. Well, I agree with with
Speaker 1: the microbiologists here that like she wouldn't go nuts if
Speaker 1: someone just sat there for five seconds. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: did kind of think, like, oh, I'm just gonna be
Speaker 1: here for a little bit. The germs are gonna be fine.
Speaker 3: They're they'll come back with me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're gonna be on me for the most part
Speaker 1: of my clothes.
Speaker 2: They're still shilling with you.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize how quickly they could go pretty immediate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like she says, you know, I'm saying alonger
Speaker 2: that you're sitting on the bed the board drooms are
Speaker 2: being transferred. But it's it's there's no fifteen second rule.
Speaker 2: There's no five second rule. And if you sit down,
Speaker 2: the germs can start out immediately and going on to bed.
Speaker 1: That is a funny rule. Like I wonder where it came.
Speaker 1: It must be just like pure human copo. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I really want to eat this thing.
Speaker 4: I will say saying lollipop is is more extreme than
Speaker 4: many other foods.
Speaker 3: That are less sticky.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, Like, I just trying to
Speaker 2: tell you eat stuff off the floor.
Speaker 4: I'm not even saying that, but I'm just saying a
Speaker 4: chip versus a you know, hard candy that's already been
Speaker 4: You're eating a chip off the floor, bro, If I mean,
Speaker 4: I would rather do that than a.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying rather, if you drop a chip on
Speaker 2: the floor, you eat.
Speaker 3: On the floor.
Speaker 2: If Manny's mom, I'm not eating a chip off any floor,
Speaker 2: not a chip.
Speaker 4: A freshly mopped floor. And I drop a single potato chip,
Speaker 4: It's in clear space. How hungry are you just throw
Speaker 4: it out? It's just one chip.
Speaker 3: It's not about it's not about that. I'm gonna have
Speaker 3: to pick it up either. What No, It's like if
Speaker 3: I dropped like so what would you what are you
Speaker 3: gonna get off? Like a fruit?
Speaker 2: Like a fruit? Because it's like if I drop like
Speaker 2: an apple on the floor, right, it's like, Okay, I
Speaker 2: don't want to throw out the whole apple. That's it off?
Speaker 3: You comment it off or have you already bitten the apple?
Speaker 2: Yes? And its situation?
Speaker 3: Yes, that's interesting.
Speaker 2: So Yeah, the point of that was if you sit
Speaker 2: on the bed for five seconds or four seconds, it's
Speaker 2: still germs, pretty immediate, but it is still cumulative. And
Speaker 2: then another piece of pushback that y'all had was about couches.
Speaker 6: M M.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So we're recording this podcast and Many's apartment right now.
Speaker 2: Noah is an outside guess he is sitting on your couch,
Speaker 2: and Noah is wearing his outside clothes on your couch,
Speaker 2: and so are.
Speaker 1: Make you feel this is where you're supposed to sit.
Speaker 2: So your pushback was, if people are so freaked out
Speaker 2: about outside clothes and their why don't they have that
Speaker 2: same energy when it comes to their couches.
Speaker 10: If I was coming home in dress clothes, I probably
Speaker 10: would change into my inside clothes before sitting on the couch.
Speaker 10: So I probably would for me personally do the same thing.
Speaker 10: But obviously we can't require our guests to come in
Speaker 10: and you know, here's here's your inside clothes, so for get.
Speaker 10: But I guess the biggest difference is, you know, we're
Speaker 10: spending you know, hopefully six hours a night on your
Speaker 10: bed in a sleep that you want to be a
Speaker 10: restorative sleep, versus when you're sitting in your couch, you're
Speaker 10: not kind of I don't know, it's not the same
Speaker 10: mechanism by which you're lying on the couch, and the
Speaker 10: intimacy with your couch isn't quite the same for most people.
Speaker 10: I try to like vacuum my couch. I do once
Speaker 10: a year, try to kind of like a steam type
Speaker 10: of a clean. But that's not really for germs. It's
Speaker 10: again probably because I have dogs. I do have a
Speaker 10: throw on the couch that the dogs are allowed on,
Speaker 10: so that gets you know, washed ver regularly. But I think,
Speaker 10: you know, if you have I guess guests that are
Speaker 10: coming in from hiking and they're gonna be spending eight
Speaker 10: hours on your couch, I probably would, you know, feel
Speaker 10: a little weird that they might be transferring this. But
Speaker 10: how often are they doing that? I do doing that
Speaker 10: once versus on our bed. We could be doing this
Speaker 10: every day, day in and day out.
Speaker 1: Okay, So basically she's saying that it is just as dirty.
Speaker 1: But there's two differences. One, you're not really putting your
Speaker 1: face on the couch. Not they're sleeping too. It's like
Speaker 1: not as intimate a space. It's a different it has
Speaker 1: a different purpose exactly. So if you're someone who needs
Speaker 1: to change their clothes before they go on their bed.
Speaker 1: I can see why that's different than your couch.
Speaker 2: I'll concede many or no one of you brought up
Speaker 2: people are so freaked out about outside clothes. So what
Speaker 2: if I take off the clothes, I'm still dirty outside
Speaker 2: body getting into bed. Yeah.
Speaker 10: I guess it depends on what you've been doing. If
Speaker 10: you've been outside doing any kind of work or athletic activities,
Speaker 10: or inside working out your sweat. Bacteria love sweat. They
Speaker 10: just kind of like that's like, uh, you know, red
Speaker 10: Bull for them. They just like, hey, you know, we're
Speaker 10: just gonna go to town. So if you were really
Speaker 10: sweaty there, it would be a benefit of showering before
Speaker 10: you got into the sheets because over time, all of
Speaker 10: that sweat that is going to allow this breeding ground
Speaker 10: for for a bacteria to happen. But for an average
Speaker 10: person that's kind of going into an air conditioned, you know,
Speaker 10: workplace and then coming home. I wouldn't say there'd be
Speaker 10: any need to do that.
Speaker 3: That attracks with me. That makes sense.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I accept that answer, this one, trust the Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: but that makes total sense that the clothes are a
Speaker 4: pretty good safeguard.
Speaker 2: All right, We've talked a lot about making our beds dirty.
Speaker 2: But how often are we cleaning our sheets?
Speaker 1: Now, that's a question I think is going to be
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a lot of range.
Speaker 2: Yes, how often are we washing our sheets? Fellas?
Speaker 1: Be honest, No one wants to want to start. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're starting on basically.
Speaker 2: Laundry once a week. So I washed my sheets once
Speaker 2: a week. I also have like four pairs of sheets,
Speaker 2: so I wrote, even if I'm not washing that sheet,
Speaker 2: I just switch them out once a week.
Speaker 1: I would say many times more than this, but I'm
Speaker 1: talking about the minimum.
Speaker 2: Yes, is once a month? Once a month, yeah, minimum.
Speaker 1: Sometimes we'll go more, sometimes we go left. Why do
Speaker 1: you ask why?
Speaker 2: I asked because I asked.
Speaker 3: This is a good question.
Speaker 2: How often we should be watching that, especially if you're
Speaker 2: gonna be sitting on your damn Yeah.
Speaker 1: That to me is way more important than someone's sitting
Speaker 1: on top on top with your clothes.
Speaker 2: Especially the sheets. Are getting real intimate with your sheets. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: she said, once a week is good.
Speaker 10: You know, to do it more often than that sometimes,
Speaker 10: then if we give ourselfs too stringent a thing, then
Speaker 10: we don't do it at all. That it kind of
Speaker 10: backfire on us.
Speaker 2: Another question for you, are we washing on hot.
Speaker 1: Now because I'm afraid that they shrink?
Speaker 2: I asked doctor Lisa.
Speaker 10: And she said, with betting, I still still with hot.
Speaker 10: So all the clothes you're washing them more often, you're
Speaker 10: not allowing that to be able to accumulate. If I
Speaker 10: guess if you were watching your betting every day, which
Speaker 10: I wouldn't recommend, I would feel more comfortable on gold,
Speaker 10: but washing it once a week, I would prefer hot.
Speaker 10: And then also we're thinking now of also dust mites.
Speaker 10: And if you think your pillow gets heavier and heavier
Speaker 10: and heavier over time, why it's because of all the
Speaker 10: dust might poop that is making your mattress and your
Speaker 10: pillow heavier over time. So by washing once a week
Speaker 10: and using hot, especially in the in the driver, you're
Speaker 10: also killing off any dust mites. That's going to help
Speaker 10: you with allergies, and that's going to help you with
Speaker 10: just over all your level of sleep and keeping that
Speaker 10: pillow not from gaining so much weight over time.
Speaker 1: But don't we run into a convenience problem where like
Speaker 1: I wash my shirt with hot water by accident, I
Speaker 1: can't run that shirt. Again, it's too small. What if
Speaker 1: you know these beds are already so the the the undersheet,
Speaker 1: it's shrinks.
Speaker 2: It's over. Okay, Doctor Lisa is not here to talk
Speaker 2: about care instructions on your on your bedding, all right,
Speaker 2: So if you want to look at the care instructions
Speaker 2: on your bedding, if you want to follow that, you
Speaker 2: want to follow that. We're talking about the science, she says.
Speaker 2: The science says you need to wash it on hot.
Speaker 2: And now it's time for our experiment. We sent swabs
Speaker 2: to a lab to see just how dirty our outside
Speaker 2: clothes are and to see if those germs are actually
Speaker 2: being transferred to our beds. Swab one dirty jeans. These
Speaker 2: are a pair of jeans that I've worn for the
Speaker 2: last couple of weeks and haven't washed. Swab two queen jeans.
Speaker 2: These are the same pair of jeans after being washed
Speaker 2: and dried on hot. Swap three dirty bedding for one week.
Speaker 2: I spent five to ten minutes today sitting on the
Speaker 2: bed with my outside clothes about four clean better to
Speaker 2: that same betting after being washed and dried on hot.
Speaker 2: Now here are the results from the lab.
Speaker 3: I can't wait.
Speaker 2: The dirty jeans and dirty bedding had elevated bacteria levels okay,
Speaker 2: and yeast in mold, east.
Speaker 1: In mold, Yes, that's tough to hear.
Speaker 2: Mold washing those really reduced the numbers, if not zero,
Speaker 2: close to it. So the lab said it's likely that
Speaker 2: the genes worn outside were exposed to bacteria and then
Speaker 2: sitting on the bed with those genes transferred that bacteria
Speaker 2: to the bed and then obviously washing them greatly reduce
Speaker 2: the amount of bacteria you're exposed to hear. I will
Speaker 2: say good news perhaps is that some of the more
Speaker 2: extreme stuff like staff Ecola and Semonela were not detected
Speaker 2: on the clean or dirty samples. Doctor Lisa was surprised
Speaker 2: by that. You know, we didn't go through her life
Speaker 2: for this experiment. She's like, that was a bit surprising.
Speaker 2: She said that could have been the way that the
Speaker 2: lab cultured the swabs. But that being said, I asked
Speaker 2: her what her takeaways were, because I know, I break
Speaker 2: thing was like, is any of this stuff gonna make
Speaker 2: you sick? But this stuff, it's kind of hard to tell.
Speaker 2: We don't have we didn't have anything that was like
Speaker 2: this will definitely make you sick, so it's gonna be
Speaker 2: how long are you exposed to that? What are you
Speaker 2: you know, what is touching that? What is your immune levels?
Speaker 2: That sort of thing. But her big takeaways was like
Speaker 2: who wants alergies, moldonisee, allergae inducing dust mite poop or
Speaker 2: the chance of getting sick or MRSA. Yeah, she said,
Speaker 2: don't wear your outside, closing your bed and then wash
Speaker 2: your bedding weekly. That that was her takeaway. Well, either
Speaker 2: or one of you changed the way you live your
Speaker 2: lives now now that there are numbers associated with it. Right,
Speaker 2: it's not just like, oh, this feels like it's dirtier,
Speaker 2: like we have now numbered proof.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Like to be honest, no, I will say I might
Speaker 3: gave my sponge the other day.
Speaker 4: Okay, oh nice, Okay, it'll probably cross my mind now,
Speaker 4: and maybe I will pause and change before I sit
Speaker 4: for a minute on the bed before going about my
Speaker 4: day if I come home. But it's not going to
Speaker 4: be I'm not going to freak out if if I
Speaker 4: do sit there, or if someone else does. Like, again,
Speaker 4: I've made it this far. I'll probably be able to
Speaker 4: make it another couple of years, you know.
Speaker 2: A couple of years, all right? Okay? Man, Yeah, many.
Speaker 2: Are you gonna change.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can see myself doing it a little less frequently,
Speaker 1: but never in a situation where I'm like quitting cold
Speaker 1: Turkey was really about convenience.
Speaker 4: I'll probably try to wash my betting more like stuff
Speaker 4: like that. Like stuff like that, it's going to be
Speaker 4: more top of mind than like the sitting on the
Speaker 4: bed thing is just seeing and even from what we've learned,
Speaker 4: doesn't really even see. Even given your bringing mold or whatever,
Speaker 4: it doesn't seem to be that big of an issue.
Speaker 2: Like imagine if I had done that for you know,
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and your bedding, yes, So that that seems
Speaker 4: a lot more critical. And it seems like the experts
Speaker 4: would probably agree with that as far as best.
Speaker 3: If you're only going to do one thing or a
Speaker 3: few things, that it should be up.
Speaker 2: Yeah. If you're going to continue to center your post,
Speaker 2: you should maybe wash your sheets more often.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can allow. I can allow for that.
Speaker 1: There's no no such thing, such thing.
Speaker 6: Such thing.
Speaker 2: No such thing was produced by Manny Finel, Noah Friedman
Speaker 2: and Me, Devin Joseph. Theme song by Many. Special thanks
Speaker 2: to our guest this week, doctor Lisa Kuchara and the
Speaker 2: Contract Testing Laboratories of America for actually helping us conduct
Speaker 2: this experiment. We're gonna put the full results to our
Speaker 2: experiment on our website, so that's no such thing not show.
Speaker 2: Also just link to it in our show notes. Shout
Speaker 2: out to Jordan Billman. That was our first episode from
Speaker 2: our listener submitted question. So if you have something you
Speaker 2: want us to get to the bottom of, email us
Speaker 2: at Manny noahdevinat gmail dot com. We'll also put that
Speaker 2: in the show notes. All right, next week on No
Speaker 2: such thing is letterbox ruining movies?
Speaker 1: Right now, I've got to give it, I think a
Speaker 1: one point five.
Speaker 2: Damn Yeah, you said a lot of it is pretty
Speaker 2: hideous to me. That's crazy.