1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Hi. This is due to the virus. I'm recording from home, 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: so you may notice a difference in audio quality on 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: this episode of News World. Since the death of George 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: Floyd in Minneapolis of May twenty fifth, we have begun 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: a new national dialogue about racial relations and policing in America. 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: There are many issues we need to address, the first 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: of which, who's trying to understand the black experience in 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: America in two twenty We haven't seen protests of riots 9 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: like this in our country since Martin Luther King Junior 10 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: was assassinated in Memphis on April fourth, nineteen sixty year. 11 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: This is not a black or white issue. This is 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: not a Republican or Democratic issue. This is an issue 13 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: we need to address for all Americans. We need to 14 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: focus on finding solutions that will enable us to move 15 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,919 Speaker 1: forward with a better life for every American and with 16 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: opportunities for every American. My guest today is a long 17 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: time friend and someone I admire. I'm pleased to welcome 18 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: my guest. Gerard Robinson is the vice president for Education 19 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: at the Advanced Studies and Culture Foundation in Charlottesville, Briginia. 20 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,559 Speaker 1: Robinson previously served as Commissioner of Education for the State 21 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 1: of Florida and as Secretary of Education for the Commonwealth 22 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: of Virginia. Girard he wrote an superb article on riots 23 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: and reason in five acts. What's your general feeling about 24 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: where we are and how you, as an American citizen 25 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: but also as an intellectual and an actuus, how you 26 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: respond to all this. First of all, mister speaker, thank 27 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: you for the opportunity to talk with you and your 28 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: listeners about this subject. What I see taking place right 29 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: now in the United States, start off, of course, in 30 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: Minneapolis and elsewhere, is just troubling as an American, troubling 31 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: as an act pademic, and its trouble inches as a 32 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: human being. What we see is almost the Thomas Hobbs 33 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: perspective of war of all against all, that somehow we 34 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: see someone's skin color and automatically they become the enemy, 35 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: or the idea that if we scratch a police, we 36 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 1: see a racist, we see a thug, we see a terrorists, 37 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: and the idea that somehow we can't find a middle 38 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: ground to show righteous indignation but at the same time 39 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: to say we are going to get beyond this. And 40 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: so when I twenty I think back to nineteen ninety 41 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: two when I was a fifth grade school teacher in 42 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 1: Los Angeles when the riots took place. But I am 43 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: also hopeful that we will move beyond this. But it'll 44 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: take time, and frankly, you'll take conversations like this to 45 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: make it happen. Talk about your childhood and growing up. 46 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: So I actually grew up in Los Angeles, California. My 47 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: parents were both Southerners who were part of a post 48 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: World War two move from the South to California to 49 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: find good job for good benefits. Grew up in a 50 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,119 Speaker 1: working class home. Step dad, who I grew up with, 51 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: worked as an airplane wing mechanic at Laheed forty seven 52 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: years on his day's pay for Honor's day's work. My 53 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,679 Speaker 1: mother had in jobs in the fashion industry. I attended 54 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: Catholic schools in Los Angeles. Was a third generation Roman 55 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: Catholic with routes from Los Angeles. In fact, Catherine Drexel, 56 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: the first American to find herself as the Saint, helped 57 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: create the parish where a number of my family members 58 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: went to school in Lake Charles, Louisiana. I grew up 59 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: playing football. I wanted to go to USC like a 60 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: lot of guys in LA and at the high school, 61 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: and then realized after getting hurt that football wasn't going 62 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: to be an option for me. In the neighborhood I 63 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: grew up in in the Crenshaw District, there were three 64 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: avenues out of the neighborhood academics, sports, and violence. Well, 65 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: I wasn't a gangster. Although I grew up in a 66 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: gang neighborhood, I wasn't a punk, so I figured out 67 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: wasn't the violence. Put I was not a great student 68 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: at all, finished high school without having algebra. Combined SAT 69 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: score was six twenty, so it surely wasn't going to 70 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: be academics. Football for me was the papawing and unfortunately 71 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: I got hurt my senior year and had to reinvent myself. 72 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,679 Speaker 1: But that led to me going to a community college, 73 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: working as a box boy at a grocery store for 74 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: three years, joining a union while I was there, and 75 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: went to old communal community college and met some great 76 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: mentors and that helped change my life. Led me on 77 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 1: to go to the East Coast of Howard University, where 78 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: I studied philosophy, much to the chagrin of my working 79 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: class parents who had no idea why kids from south 80 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: central LA would studied philosophy. I did so and then 81 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: returned to Los Angeles become a fifth grade teacher. Why 82 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: USC and not UCLA? Ucla was known everybody as the 83 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: basketball school, and so the first college basketball game that 84 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: I attended was a USD versus an Oregon game. Believed 85 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: it was nineteen seventy nine. Ucla was still the powerhouse. 86 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 1: If you played football, you didn't look at UCLA. You 87 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: look at USC. The era of Charles White, Pat Hayden, 88 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 1: numerous roles Bowls, and that was important. Differesting you asked 89 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: that question. When you think about the movie Boys in 90 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: the Hood, there was a scene where the young man 91 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: wanted to go from high school to college and where 92 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 1: he wanted to go to play football USC And if 93 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: memory serves me correctly, he had on a number forty 94 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: two jersey for football and that was from a famous 95 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: running back from USC. So if the line is pretty 96 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: clear in Los Angeles, if you wanted to play basketball, 97 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 1: it was UCLA football, it was always USC. You arrived 98 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: back home, it's a fifth grade you've actually been back 99 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: each he lived in Washington. To what extent did getting 100 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: out of California changing arriving to DC was just mind 101 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: blowing in a number of ways. First of all, it 102 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: was one of a few times I'd ever seen that 103 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: many black police officers. When I left Los Angeles, over 104 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 1: the sixty the police officers or white many of them 105 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: did not live in the community, so seeing that was important. 106 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: Between the police on the campus of Howard University and 107 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: the police in DC, and they still had white police 108 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: as banished others. It was the first time in my 109 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: life where I saw a police officer and didn't immediately 110 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: have a reaction of fear, because my interaction with the 111 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 1: police in DC and some of the other cities were different. 112 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: Going to Howard University gave an opportunity to meet African 113 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: American students from all walks of life. I was a 114 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: first in my family to go to college. It was 115 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 1: interesting to meet people who were fourth generation college soon 116 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: to be graduates. So there was a cultural dynamic of 117 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: meeting people from the Huxtables, and then to have me 118 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: coming from Los Angeles, first generation, all in the same 119 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 1: class having very interesting conversations. Being in DC at the 120 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: same time, Ronald Reagan was in his last seasons president, 121 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: was there when George hw Bush was elected to office, 122 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: and so there was a lot of political dynamics, both 123 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: good and bad taking place. I think what really moved 124 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 1: me as well was having my chance to go to 125 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: the first Congressional Black Caucus meeting in nineteen eighty seven 126 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: would have been September, and getting a chance to meet 127 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: Shritgeil and a chance to meet some of the members 128 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: who were some of the following leaders of Congressional Black Caucus, 129 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: and spending time just going to congressional hearings where I 130 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: could hearing them talk about urban America and the role 131 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: of education, Its shaping me in terms of geography, shaping 132 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: in terms to meeting people from different parts of the world, 133 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: and will shape my ideas of policing and what it 134 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: looked like. The more importantly that I could reinvent myself 135 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: multiple times through education. What year did you actually get 136 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: back home? Nineteen ninety one, So you're there about a 137 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: year and you've got the Rodney King case and then 138 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: the riots that occurred. From your perspective, both at the 139 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: time but also now looking back with a sense of death, 140 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: how would you explain that to people who know nothing 141 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: about it? So nineteen ninety one prior to the verdict, 142 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: prior to the riots. Let's put LA in context. Nineteen 143 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: ninety one was one of the bloodiest years in the 144 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: history of Los Angeles. Murders were at an all time high. 145 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: You had really tough community relations between Blacks and Mexicans, 146 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: really tough conversations and relationship between Blacks and Koreans. There 147 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: was a Korean shop owner who had shot and killed 148 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: a young girl in the community. Little was done to 149 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 1: her in terms of criminal action. That led to a 150 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: number of light protests, but nothing that we saw during 151 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: the Robbey King time. There was also a really harsh 152 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: relations between the police and people in LA. There were 153 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: sweeps at times where six to eight hundred people a 154 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: weekend were swept up by the police, stopped on the street, 155 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: some either taken near or to the coliseum for questioning 156 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: or in their cars. You know, I remember taking one 157 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: of my cousins on a ride. We found himself in 158 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: a tough spot. He was selling drugs, and so I 159 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: went to pick him up and saw him in the corner. 160 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: I said, man, look, let's go out and have a conversation. 161 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: When in fact went to a museum. We had a conversation. 162 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: We talked about life, why he needed to change. We 163 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: go back to my car, I put the key in, 164 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: open it up, and all of a sudden, I see 165 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: a Christmas lights. Why five police cars descended up on us. 166 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 1: By the time we turned around, several of them were 167 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: already out, guns pointed, saying get to the ground. They 168 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: separate us. I'm on one side, he's on another. We're 169 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: going back and forth with them. When asked the police, well, 170 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: why was I stopped, they said, well, someone saw you 171 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: breaking into a car. I said, with my own key, 172 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: and then we went back and forth. My biggest concern 173 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: I was holding my own cousin didn't have don't on 174 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: him at the time. Fortunately it changed Jackinson did not. 175 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 1: But that wasn't something that was not uncommon. Now, let 176 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: me not also give everyone the idea that all police 177 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: werebet I had police who stopped me for a light 178 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,319 Speaker 1: that was out in the back and said, hey, listen, 179 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: you need to get that taken care of. I had 180 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,719 Speaker 1: police who would come aroun our schools throw footballs with 181 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: this half conversation. So there was both. But in ninety one, 182 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: it was just really tough. And if you take a 183 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: look at the music at the time, particularly coming from 184 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: Los Angeles NWA their album was out. I can't say 185 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: the word on your show that people who know at 186 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 1: the police. So there were a number of social, economic, 187 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: cultural dynamics taking place. And so when we saw Rodney 188 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: King on camera beat and even when a president George 189 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 1: hw Butch said he was sick and how could he's 190 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: playing that to his grandchildren, a lot of us said, 191 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:35,839 Speaker 1: you know what, We've known, this has happened to our 192 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 1: family members and others. This should be a slam dun 193 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: And when it wasn't, things changed. Do you think it 194 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 1: was the result of the acquittal that really sort of 195 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: lit the match. The acquittal lit the match for sure. 196 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: It couldn't have been police brutality alone, because we had 197 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: a lot of cases between Rodney King find himself beat 198 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 1: and the acquittal. There were police reports then they weren't 199 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: as public, so it couldn't have been that. It couldn't 200 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: have been black white dynamics alone because that had taken 201 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: place for a long time. LA at least from a 202 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: segregation standpoint, had been racially segregated, second most to Chicago, 203 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: So that was a place. But people really believe that 204 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: there could have been a different response. I didn't think so, 205 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: in part because when the venue was moved to Semi Valley, 206 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: and Semi Valley is a community where limber police officers live, 207 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: not police officers too, that it would be different. But 208 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 1: for that to come through, that was just it. When 209 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: the riot actually occurred, in comparison, something's going on right now. 210 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: First of it was a much bigger riot than we've 211 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 1: seen in any single city this year, and it was 212 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: briefly really out of control. A month before the verdict, 213 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: I had a parent come to me and say, I 214 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 1: hear you're talking to my child about possible riots. You know, 215 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that's your responsibility. And I said, well, 216 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: as your files teacher, my responsibility is to expose him 217 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: or her to multiple views of life. I said, either 218 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: you grew up in the sixties or your parents did, 219 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 1: and you're from la and you saw what happened in 220 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: wats which at that time was one of the most 221 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: destructive riots in the country in nineteen sixty five. And 222 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: I said, if nothing happens after the verdict, it is 223 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: no harm, no file. But if in fact something happens, 224 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure we're going to have looting the writing, 225 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: and I'm talking to your child about the history of 226 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: what it looked like in the US, because they're ten 227 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: years old, still socially, emotionally in important development stages, still 228 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: young enough to care, but not too old to be 229 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: too cute to care. And so the parent and I 230 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: had a conversation about it and agreed that, Okay, I 231 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: can see why you're doing this. So imagine the principle 232 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: walking into the classroom and saying the fourth police are off. 233 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: One of the students slammed his book. Another student started 234 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: to cry. And then I had night duty, which meant 235 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 1: that I had to stay for about an hour and 236 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: a half after the close of school for parents to 237 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: come pick up their children. When I tell you, middle 238 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: class parents all the way to parents would qualify for 239 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: free to reduce chrice lunch. They lived in different parts 240 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: of Los Angeles, they drove different cars, they could cold 241 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: switch differently in terms of language, the phenotypes may have 242 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: been different, the education was different, but for that moment, 243 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,959 Speaker 1: there was one thing. We were all black and again 244 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: found ourselves treated as inferior, and just the frustration and 245 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: the anger, and so parents were picking up their students. 246 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: I didn't leave the school and people are outside hawking horns, 247 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: someone standing on corners. The signs hadn't gone out yet. 248 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 1: I even had someone walk up to be and say 249 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 1: do you have a gun? And if now, I'll get 250 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: you guns. Tales were easy to get and then it 251 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: just began to evolve and evolve, and then you have 252 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,199 Speaker 1: what we have. So saying that the verdict was really 253 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: lit it, the answer is yes, but there was a 254 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: lot of care see under the match that had been 255 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: brewing for a long time. Do you think there's a 256 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: parallel to the sudden intensity of the reaction this year? Yeah, 257 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: I think so. When I saw the initial protest in Minneapolis, 258 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: I said to my wife, they're gonna have a riot, 259 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: and she said, well, why don't you say that? I said, 260 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: the way they're moving and the way they're organized, I've 261 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: only seen that one other time, and that was in 262 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: Los Angeles. Now we've had similar responses, violent and peaceful 263 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: protests in Ferguson as well as Baltimore. We had a 264 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: young man who was also shot and killed by police 265 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: caught on camera in Minneapolis, so that wasn't the first time, 266 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: but very similar to the verdict. You have it on tape. 267 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: There's no question about it, black or white, Hispanic, Native American, 268 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: Asian or other. When you look at Rodney King, there 269 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: was a visceral response to it for most, not all, 270 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: just as it being inhumane. When you look at what 271 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: happened to George Floyd, black, white, Hispanic, Native American, multicultural, other, 272 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: you had a response that was visceral because we thought 273 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: it was inhumane. When the inhumaneness of the brutality rises 274 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: to a level and you see the way people start 275 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: moving almost like agitated bees, that's when I say, yeah, 276 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: they're going to riot over this. It's just that I 277 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: know the feeling, and I think the inhumanity of the 278 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: response and the cold bureaucratic way in which the city 279 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: responded to it made it seemed like black lives still 280 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: don't matter. So in that sense, the evolution hasn't been 281 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: very far. In a period of twenty eight years. There 282 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: have been changes within policing and departments in and of themselves. 283 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: You've got more women who are leaders now a police 284 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: department it's much more multi cultural, multi racial, more women 285 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: as well in the force than you did before. There's 286 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: more technology to help out with policing, than ever before. 287 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: And we also have to realize that nearly seventy five 288 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: police interaction with us isn't the result of someone pulling 289 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: a gun. There're aspects of police that have nothing to 290 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: do with brutality or physically roughing people up. It has 291 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: to do with the public service, the protect and serve part. 292 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: There's some things have changed and some haven and so 293 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: much of it is cultural. And so when you see 294 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: the black white dynamics, because this is very clear, we 295 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: don't respond often the same way when it's black police 296 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: having brutal encounters with residents. And that's been going on 297 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: a long time. In fact, there's a song from NWA 298 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,439 Speaker 1: where it talks about the black police beaten up a 299 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: black suspect to show off for the white cop. That's 300 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: been going on for decades. But the white black dynamic 301 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: raises just a lot of emotional flags. That has a 302 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: lot to do with history. But yeah, there's some changes 303 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,120 Speaker 1: have been made, but yeah, some dynamics are still the same. 304 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: How would you rate the way President of Bush tried 305 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: to deal with it. He was dealing with one very 306 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: large riot, but it was in one place. April twenty ninth, 307 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: Mayor Tom Bradley, first African American mayor of the city, 308 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: former police lieutenant. He contacts he Wilson, who's the governor, 309 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: and say, listen, we've got to do something. This leads 310 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: to a local and state call of emergency that then 311 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: sets in place of presidential response. President George HW. Bush 312 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: signed a couple of proclamations declaring a state of emergency 313 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: for the first time in many, many, many many decades, 314 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: bringing up the Insurrection Act. But he also visited the city. 315 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,719 Speaker 1: When he visited Los Angeles, he talked to community members, 316 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 1: he went to churches, he talked to business leaders. He 317 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: got to the local route and said, I left Washington, DC. 318 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: This is an important city for me. And what he 319 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: said and c Span captured this. He says, I'm not 320 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: here to talk about politics. I'm here to figure out 321 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: how it can help you rebuild your lives. The number 322 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: of African American business owners, Koreans and others who he 323 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: visited with, and then he went on television and he 324 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 1: talked about we need to restore law and order. We 325 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: need to figure out what we can do. So he 326 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: took response of going and speaking The fast forward to 327 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 1: twenty twenty as far as I know, President Trump has 328 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: not traveled to Minneapolis to take a look at what 329 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: has taken place on the ground level, to have a 330 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 1: conversation with business owners. I personally know of African American 331 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: entrepreneurs whose family businesses were destroyed. I know personally African 332 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: in the city who have had places burned to the 333 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: ground where they used to eat. That didn't take place. 334 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: As of today, President Trump has not delivered a national 335 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 1: message to talk about a the riots and protests, be 336 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: to put it in context of what this means as 337 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: a society, and third to talk about what he's going 338 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: to do. President Lyndon Johnson did it when he was 339 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: an office. President Obama at different points, So no response 340 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 1: versus a response is radically different. In your article entitled 341 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 1: riots and Reasons in five X, what do you mean 342 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: by a battle between two competing visions? The first vision 343 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: consists of private beliefs about people's role in the American 344 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: social order, their right to fight, to the right to power, 345 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: and their ability to pick society's winners and losers. That's 346 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: a private vision. The second vision consists of public beliefs 347 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: about the role of the criminal justice system in the 348 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: lives of Black people in the American social order, their 349 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: access to power and their ability to pick winners and losers. 350 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: The American experiment is still maturing two hundred plus years older. 351 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: Their private belief that we hold about what are people's 352 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: role in the American social order? Do we have winners 353 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 1: and losers? Answer is yes, But are the winners and 354 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: losers somehow connected to a great chain of being? Well 355 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: answers no, but we do have economic social dynamics that 356 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: seem to keep some people on top and some on 357 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: the bottom. Those are private views, but in public when 358 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: you see that twelve percent or thirteen percent of the 359 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: populations African American but disproportionately represented in prison, in police 360 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 1: cases and others, just go to raised questions about do 361 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: we have conflicting visions that are public and private? I 362 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: think they are, but I at least wanted to structure 363 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: it those two questions in a way for people just 364 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: to think differently about the American social order. We'll use 365 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: surprise in Minneapolis, when the demonstrations moved into a looting 366 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: and burning phase. Do you think it was possible that 367 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: we could have had the demonstrations remained peaceful Much of 368 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 1: the demonstrations in Minneapolis were peaceful. We tend to focus 369 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 1: on the ones that were not peaceful. As it relates 370 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: to looting and five US, well, we see people do 371 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 1: that after national football and basketball championships. We've seen that 372 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: after cities win national penance, people get excited, they want 373 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: to go out and they loot and they burn. Now 374 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: we tend to focus on riots naturally because of what happened, 375 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: but I'm not shocked at that happened. People are burning 376 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: and looting. Now, let's be real clear. Some people were 377 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: not looting for the spirit of what happened to George Floyd. 378 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: They simply wanted clothes, liquor, shoes, and other items. There 379 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: are people who decided to burn private businesses for hoster reasons, 380 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: but the burning of the police station, I think is 381 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: really symbolic. I think what's unique about the American experience 382 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 1: is that when you have riots and looting, it's the 383 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: language that we use. When you look at labor strikes. 384 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 1: Their labor strikes in the United States that have led 385 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: to looting and burning, but we refer to those as 386 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 1: labor strikes in part because those involved in it were 387 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,439 Speaker 1: mostly white or white and ethnic You move to the 388 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: United States, going back to the Red Summer nineteen nineteen 389 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: twenty all the way to the present, when you've had 390 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: looting and rioting in cities, sometimes over economic aspects as well, 391 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: we just refer to that as a riot, as if 392 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: somehow it's not connected to something briggor And by naming 393 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: it a riot, it naturally means it's urban and it's black. 394 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: So I think that unique part about how we view 395 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 1: skin color, reason and rioting could be spueche unique to 396 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 1: the American experience. Where do we go from here? I mean, 397 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: we'll share advice to the country. Well, my advice to parents, 398 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 1: first of all, is to have an honest conversation with 399 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: your children about what you see on television. I'm the 400 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 1: dad of three daughters. My oldest daughter lives and works 401 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, so imagine me around her age in 402 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: Los Angeles nineteen ninety two Rabbe King Ryan's my daughter 403 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: participates in a march in Los Angeles with thousands of 404 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: people wearing a mask, holding a sign, and us having 405 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: a conversation about what it looks like in her twenties, 406 00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,679 Speaker 1: and so I think we've got to talk to our 407 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: child about this because when they see burning and they 408 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: see looting, and they see fist fights, and then we 409 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: tell them at school be kind love one another. We 410 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: say the same thing in our face traditions. They think 411 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: either we as adults are lying, or what they're seeing 412 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: on TV is just another version of wrestling and that 413 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: it's okay. So I think there's a parent component. Number two. 414 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: Our lawmakers have to be really clear that they cannot 415 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: politicize this into a democratic republican argument. We are on 416 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: a really tough type role where we can fall into 417 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,199 Speaker 1: an existential of us. And I don't say that to 418 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: be philosophical. I say that to be rudely pragmatic. When 419 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: you have business burned, when you have loss of jobs, 420 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: when you have police and civiliams alike losing their lives, 421 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,880 Speaker 1: when we have lost fundamental trust in the local arm 422 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: of government called policey, we are allowing people to continue 423 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: to do what they do unfettered. You really are looking 424 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: at aspects of anarchy that I would say we did 425 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: not see in Los Angeles in nineteen ninety two. It 426 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 1: did not last as long. It also, as we mentioned, 427 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: didn't spread the same way to other cities. So I 428 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 1: would say our lawmakers, see yourselves as elected officials first, 429 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: not as partisans, something that George Washington warned us about 430 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: the spirit of faction and party doing his Felware address. 431 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: The third thing I would say is that there's got 432 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: to be a faith component to this. If you look 433 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: at the nineteen sixties and the riots that were taking 434 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: place then, or the civil protests or the unrest or 435 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 1: the uprisings, whatever term you choose to use, the faith 436 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: community was pretty involved. I haven't seen a strong outreach 437 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 1: of faith leaders now. Now we're in Corona and we 438 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: can't meet in person, so that's a dynamic. But there's 439 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,360 Speaker 1: got to be a faith component to how we respond 440 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: because so much of this is a human dynamic, and 441 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: I think the last Franklins for us to reimagine what 442 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: America will look like post COVID nineteen and when things 443 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: get back to some order. What we talk about to 444 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: our children when they go to school. Have we prepared 445 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: our teachers, who also are experiencing stress, how to talk 446 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: to students about why this stuff really managed to them? 447 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: We prepared our principles with the kind of support that 448 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: they need to return back to school. What about our 449 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 1: after school programs? They play a tremendous role in supplementing 450 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 1: what takes place before and after school. They've been closed 451 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: for a long time as well. So while I see 452 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: a lot of concern, I remain optimistic and hopeful because 453 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 1: in the American experience and in what we've seen before, 454 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 1: I go back to works of people like Howard Thurman, 455 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: who was at Morehouse College. He writes a book College 456 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,360 Speaker 1: Jesus and a Disinherited I think of be Benjamin Emys. 457 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: I think of civil rights leaders in the South. They 458 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: lived through TIS I would say that even more challenging 459 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 1: than this, and they found ways to reach across the racial, economic, religious, 460 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: and regional line to say, at the end of the day, 461 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: this is our country. We are Americans, wartsed in all. 462 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: This is home, and we've got to do a better 463 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: job of showing our children a better example. So you 464 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: think it's both a government thing but also sort of 465 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 1: an every American thing. I think it's a civil society thing. 466 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: I don't believe that government should be the sole architect 467 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: of rebuilding what we want to call our republic. It's 468 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: going to take faith leaders, it's going to take public servants, 469 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: it's going to take those in public service in the military, 470 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: it's going to take what I call a all arms 471 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: wrap around approach, and so for me, it's a civil 472 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: society approach that's very, very helpful, but it's also a 473 00:27:53,600 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: huge challenge. Don't you that absolutely within the Protestant Christian tradition, 474 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: we may have over fifty denominations, one God, one savior, 475 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: multiple approaches, and we have fights internally over whether or 476 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: not we should honor same sex marriages. So we've got 477 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: challenges within the church. If you look within the military, 478 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 1: you have those of the different branches of government who 479 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 1: believe we're doing the right thing in terms of our 480 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: investment into foreign wars, some who think we've gone too far. 481 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 1: Within our public and private school system, we have some 482 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 1: who believe that no public money should go to private schools. 483 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: And then in the private sector we have multiple independent 484 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: and religious based schools who may think differently. So we 485 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: have a number of I would say the fishers that 486 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: are taking place simultaneously. But why not take this crisis, 487 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: this one right here, a real one and say, for 488 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: a moment, with all the issues that we have, let's 489 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: figure out what we can do to stall this issue, 490 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: which is a human issue and then let it moon 491 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: walk back to our other problems at a personal level 492 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: to put you on the spot, but I think it's important. 493 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: How often do you find yourself being discriminated against just 494 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: because of color. I'll give you a couple of real 495 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: world examples. I attended a banquet in Washington, DC. Now, Washington, 496 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: DC is a very Cocopolitan city, one of the great 497 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: capital cities of our country. I'm dressed along with my 498 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: wife in a tuxedo, and I happened to stop walking 499 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: by a table and someone poked me and said, I 500 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: would like you to get me some wine. And I said, 501 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: I'm not the waiter, and she said, well, you didn't 502 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: have a name tag, And I said, the waiters don't 503 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: have on a name tag. In fact, no one in 504 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: here has a the name tag. And the embarrassment at 505 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: that table was beyond belief. That's one example number two 506 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: in Washington, DC, and has happened more than once. Recently. 507 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: I parked my car in an underground parking spot. Like 508 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,479 Speaker 1: everyone else, I'll give the attendant my key. I've had 509 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: people walk up to me and give me their keys, 510 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: expecting me to go get their car because they think 511 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: that I'm the attendant and I had on the suit. 512 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: The last example when it's one that even my father, 513 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: who was born in nineteen thirteen experience, which shows that 514 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: this thing is generational. When I go to a hotel, 515 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: I have to watch where in the hotel I stand, 516 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: because if I stand too close to the front desk, 517 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: I'm automatically the bellhop. Even though I don't have on 518 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: a cap, I don't have on a uniform, and if 519 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: I stand in the middle, happen to me by myself. 520 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: People will walk up and ask me where the room 521 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: is located, because they believe in the concierge and nothing 522 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: wrong with those jobs. A number of African American men 523 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: have been able to raise those families on their job. 524 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: But the idea that when you see black you don't 525 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: see professional, that when you see black you see worker, 526 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: not employer or entrepreneur, or the fact that when you 527 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: see black and mail you still see the debate that 528 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: the voice and book Till Washington had me hand versus heart. 529 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: And I have a master's degree from Harvard. My wife 530 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: is a graduate of Harvard. Our daughter is a graduate 531 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: of Howard University. I've got what people would say are 532 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: the badges of honor to show that I'm middle class. 533 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: But I'm always very clear that how I'm seeing is 534 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: one thing. But here's the takeaway, mister speaker. It's not 535 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: what you call me, it's what I call myself. And 536 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: one of the things I learned at Howard University is 537 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: that before all of this took place, I was who 538 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: I was, and so I put it in a perspective. 539 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: Don't always like it, don't always say it feels good. 540 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: But I'm not going to let that either way with 541 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: my soul because I know who I am, and the 542 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: people who think that way, you've got them growing up 543 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: to do. Do you feel you have to be extra 544 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: cautious in dealing with the police. The answer is yes, 545 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: And I say that from experience, But I can't say 546 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: it from a statistical standpoint because I've never been white 547 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: and have never had a chance to interact with police 548 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: other than being black. But what I can say just 549 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: from interactions with my friends professional otherwise we have to be. 550 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: In fact, in high school we were stopped by the police, 551 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: I would take the keys out of my car, I 552 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: rolled down my window, and I would not put my 553 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: hand out the window because when you see a hand 554 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: coming out, you don't know what's in my hand, or 555 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: an arm extending. I would throw the keys on the ground. 556 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: That was at least a signal that I'm not going 557 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: to drive away, and they me and my friends would 558 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: put our hands allowed me on the steering wheel, and 559 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: they would put their hands high enough where you could 560 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: look through the back window and so people would not 561 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: know that you had a gun. I'm not sure how 562 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: many of my white high school costmates had to do that, 563 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: or how many of my white professional friends would do that. Now, 564 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: part of what I have to come to grips with 565 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: that I don't have any answer for it is that 566 00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: that level of discrimination is still real and still amazingly personal. 567 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: I think the average white person has no notion that 568 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty, there's still a level of all day, 569 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: everyday minor and major discrimination that does have an alienating effect. 570 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: It just says that an accurate statement it is. This 571 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: has been very helpful. I'm very proud to know you 572 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: as a friend, and I really think you're providing real leadership. Well, 573 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: thank you as a speaker for this opportunity to have 574 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: a dialogue with you. Thank you to my guest Gerard Robinson. 575 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: You can read more about race in America towards a 576 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: new generational solutions on our show page at nutzworld dot com. 577 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: Newsworld is produced by English three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our 578 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: executive producer is Debbie Myers and our producer is going 579 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: to s Slow. The artwork for the show was created 580 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: by Steve Pennett. Special thanks to team at Gingwich three sixty. 581 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: Please email me with your questions at Gingwich three sixty 582 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: dot com slash questions. I'll answer them in future episodes. 583 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: If you've been enjoying news World, I hope you'll go 584 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: to Apple Podcasts and both rate us with five stars 585 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: and give us a review so others can learn what 586 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:24,439 Speaker 1: it's all about. On the next episode of Newsworld, how 587 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: did the prosecution of Michael Flynn Begin? I'm joined by 588 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,760 Speaker 1: Lee Smith to discuss the Flynn case. I'm new Gingwich. 589 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 1: This is news World.