1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and SMITHA. I'm welcome to Steffan. 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: I never told you PRODUCTU if I heart radio, and 3 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: welcome to our hinted at the Last of Us Season 4 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: two wrap up once again, not a sponsor. If I 5 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: had control, things would be different. But whatever, and you 6 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: will get spoiled. On the most recent season of the 7 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 1: Last of Us, the first season, the first game, parts 8 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: of the second game, VY hints at what's to come, 9 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: So I'll just put that out there. I have a 10 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,480 Speaker 1: whole section here where I'm going to complain about how 11 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: hard this is to talk about without spoiling things. But 12 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: this is a very indulgent thing because it is one 13 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: of my very favorite It's my very favorite game of 14 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: all time, and I love the show. I rewatched. I 15 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: did the whole rewatch last night. 16 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 2: Oh, including the first season. 17 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: No, I didn't. I haven't had time to do that 18 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: because wow, if you've listened to the show, you know 19 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: me and Samantha have gone through some we've had some 20 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: things come up, We've had things, We've had some things 21 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 1: come up. So I haven't had time to do that yet. 22 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: But I did do in preparation for this the whole 23 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: second season for the first time, and it was cool, 24 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: like because it's really fun. I've said before I love 25 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: the anticipation, the guessing of what's coming next time, the 26 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: next episode. But it was cool knowing what was coming 27 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: and just being able to like have it continuously go 28 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: and it moves quickly like the first one. The first 29 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: season moves quickly, but the second one not just because 30 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: it's shorter in episodes, but I think because they're moving, 31 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: they're covering so much ground so quickly that I was like, oh, 32 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 1: it's over already, wall they did that much. Wow. Anyway, 33 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: I had a great time. I can't wait to do 34 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: the whole thing. 35 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 2: Right if you are trying to plan to do one 36 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 2: day when when the stars aligned, when. 37 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: The stars aligned, because that would be sixteen hours, sixteen hours, hoof. 38 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: I could do it. 39 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 2: I know you could. The question is would you take 40 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 2: a break? 41 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: I know that's what I'm like, would you take a 42 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: pause between? Where would it be? Would it be between 43 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: season one and season two? But I feel like it 44 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: would be really good to just roll into the first 45 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 1: episode of season two because that's where it starts. 46 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a feeling I'll have to put some 47 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 2: ground rules. 48 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: Down well, that's a problem for future us. That's a 49 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: problem for future So today it is very indulgent, just 50 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: a couple of as I said, I had to cut 51 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: surprisingly because those episodes are pretty long, I had to 52 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: cut some things out. But also a couple of you 53 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: have requested this, thank you, and we'll be touching on 54 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: that a little bit more at the end. But yeah, 55 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 1: also it's twofold. It's both Savannah and I have been 56 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: going through kind of a lot of things, and so 57 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: this is an easier episode for us, but for me. 58 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: But also it's hard for me to express how big 59 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: this feels for me, like that I that this season 60 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: came out and I got to see it. I don't know, like, 61 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: now that it's over, I'm having these kind of reflective 62 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: moments of like, oh gosh, you know that was so 63 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: important to me, and that I got to wait who 64 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: knows how long for the next season. So it is 65 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: kind of a big deal to me. I guess that's 66 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: what I'm trying to say. 67 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 2: Yes, it is very big deal, which is why I 68 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: said we should do a wrap up, because there's things 69 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 2: you want to say and we can talk about comparisons 70 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 2: and such, so you know, I don't think anybody hates that. 71 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I have to say some of you 72 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: did write in and uh, we're like, you know, I've 73 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: never seen the show, but I still love these episodes, 74 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: and or you convinced me to watch it, and or 75 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: you convince me to play it, which I'm like, hey, okay, 76 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: why have we not sponsored. 77 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 2: Because they have their own podcast, Danny, But. 78 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I know, but I am very glad 79 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: to hear that. That makes me feel better because sometimes 80 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm just like screaming into a void of 81 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: people who are like, well, you talk about something else now, 82 00:04:54,839 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: But anyway, okay, I recommend that you listen to our 83 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: previous episodes, our previous recaps on this season that just ended. 84 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: But you know, you do you do, you do you? 85 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:20,119 Speaker 1: But I feel like one thing that I didn't touch 86 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 1: on it's kind of interesting coming from someone who's played 87 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: the game as many times as I have versus someone 88 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: who has no knowledge is just watching it on TV 89 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: for the first time, is that I didn't really even 90 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: talk about the cliffhanger, which it obviously is one. It's 91 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: a huge cliffhanger, and I think I said in the 92 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: first episode I had read reviews. I was very nervous 93 00:05:54,680 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: about this coming out because I knew I knew, oh, 94 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 1: it was going to be controversial. We'll talk about that 95 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: in a second. But like I also knew there was 96 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 1: no good place for them to split it. There just 97 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: really isn't And we had our theories. Samantha nos I 98 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: would just randomly text you and your partner be like, 99 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: I think this is where they're going to split it. 100 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: But we were pretty sure they were going to split 101 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: it there. And I knew based on reviews that it 102 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: was very jarring and sudden thing for a lot of people, 103 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: and so I was anticipating like being let down, not 104 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: because it was bad, but just because of the way 105 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: people were like, you know, I loved it until this 106 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: point or even like I still love it, but I 107 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: didn't like this aspect of it. And so I feel 108 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: like I was really relieved, actually, But I think that's 109 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: because I'm coming from a place of the gamer who 110 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: knows what's to come. So I get that people are 111 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: frustrated by it. It is very sudden, very daring, and 112 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: it's kind of a big ask to be like, yeah, 113 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: now the person who've been telling her you hate this 114 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: whole time, you're gonna get her point of view. And 115 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: I have to tell you, I the first time I played, 116 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: I was mad as who It was so mad because 117 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: they did it so well and so it's it took 118 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: me a while to come around. And then when I did, 119 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, okay, I get it. Okay, okay, okay. 120 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: But I honestly, as someone who's played the game, I 121 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: was just like, yes, this is how it is in 122 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: the game, and I'm relieved that it's not worse than 123 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: how people were making it sound. But I but because 124 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: I have the stuff the all, I already know what's 125 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: gonna happen. I get it. I get that if you don't, 126 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: and I really do recommend you don't spoil yourself if 127 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: you can avoid it. That people are frustrated and there 128 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: was just over and you don't know what happens. You 129 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: don't know what happens to Ellie, Tommy Ardina. So I 130 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: wish I had talked about that a little bit more 131 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: in our final episode, but because to me, I just know, 132 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: it kind of escapes my right. I'm like, oh yeah, 133 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: but it was here, and when you play the game, 134 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: it's like that too. And I didn't know what was 135 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: going to happen, and it takes forever. Listen, the game 136 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: is a long game, and it takes a long time 137 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: before you get to the resolution of what happened when 138 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: Ellie and Abby finally have this confrontation. So I get it, 139 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 1: trust me with you, But I also I know I've 140 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: talked about this before, but I just wanted to talk 141 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: a little bit about the kind of heart of a 142 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: lot of the themes of this game is revenge and justice. 143 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: How do you frame that? And I think at the 144 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: end of this season there are questions of was this 145 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: worth given what Ellie has lost and stands to lose, 146 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,479 Speaker 1: but also on Abby's side, given what Abby has lost, 147 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: And I am really interested in how they're going to 148 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,839 Speaker 1: deal with that because, as I mentioned in our last 149 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: episode about the finale, Ellie's characterization is different a little 150 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: in the show versus the game. A lot of them 151 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: are a lot of them are nicer to be honest 152 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 1: with you than they are in the game, and Ellie 153 00:09:55,679 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: definitely is at least shows more open remorse than she 154 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: does in the game, So it feels a little different. 155 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: It feels like she's already had a realization that Okay, 156 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: this was not worth it. She doesn't have that in 157 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:21,599 Speaker 1: the game at all. But the early marketing of the 158 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: show was every path has a price, and it was 159 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: a picture of Ellie picture of Abby in a picture 160 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: of Joel, and Joel was the one that was looking 161 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: over his shoulder because he knew what he had done 162 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: and things might come for him, people like Abby might 163 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: come for him. But now we have this dynamic of 164 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: Ellie and Abby having created similar things. Also, people, I 165 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: love this, but everyone knows I loved Last of Us too, 166 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: So everyone wants my opinion about it about like everything. 167 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: And I have a friend who is watching it, I 168 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: think solely for my benefit. I think she likes it, 169 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: but she's like, I know, you'll never forgive me if 170 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: I don't watch it. I'm like, not really, but but anyway, 171 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: she I hung out with her recently and she she 172 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: was like, we've talked about it before, so I know 173 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: some of her thoughts about the first season, for instance. 174 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: But she had a very specific beef about Abby that 175 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: I thought was kind of funny, where she was angry 176 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: that people weren't angrier at her, like the creators, not 177 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,719 Speaker 1: like outside people, and she was saying, you know, in 178 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: the post interviews, they never bring up what Abby did, 179 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: and I'm like, they will. They're gonna bring up in 180 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: her reason when you learn why her friend group is 181 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: apparently so fractured when we see them like it was 182 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: just kind of funny because then I was explaining to 183 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:15,599 Speaker 1: her how I felt doing these episodes where it's difficult 184 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: to talk about her without spoiling things, you know, even 185 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: if you're unintentionally just bringing something up. But it was 186 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: it was quite funny to me that her complaint was 187 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: they weren't mad enough at her, and that complaint actually 188 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: has some traction I've seen from people online being angry 189 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: that I honestly think a lot of this is just 190 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:46,959 Speaker 1: debate people, but the creators will often say things that 191 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: contradict each other, and one of them I who knows, 192 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,239 Speaker 1: because like I said, eighty percent of bots have infiltrated 193 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:01,719 Speaker 1: this conversation. But one of the things was that they 194 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: were saying that, you know, Abby might be the hero 195 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: of the story and people were freaking out. Yeah yeah, 196 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: but it was just kind of funny to me that 197 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: that was her biggest complaint of the whole thing was 198 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: the post interviews weren't angry enough. 199 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 2: So they've never your friend has never seen you go 200 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 2: through a playthrough. 201 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: No, oh, now she I asked her to once and 202 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: she said, if you give me enough alcohol. But she 203 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: also said that she gets motion sickness watching people play games. 204 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm really good at that, not doing 205 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: the thing that makes people motion sick. But I'm not 206 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: going to make her do it. You know, if she 207 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: don't want to, she doesn't want to. So this is 208 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: she's heard me talk about it though, because she's told 209 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: me she doesn't care about sports, so she already knew 210 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: long when it first came out. I told her the 211 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: whole thing, right. Another thing that I forgot to mention, 212 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: I did say, people are really interestingly to me angry 213 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: that Abby is not buff like she's in the game, 214 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about that a little bit 215 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: more at the end. But and I kind of just 216 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: moved on and said, you know, basically, the creators said 217 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: there's no need for us to have her be that 218 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: buff because it's sort of a plot point that they're 219 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: clearly not going to use. But also, it was a 220 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: gameplay thing. It was a gameplay style, so you do 221 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: play you do play Abby within the first hour of 222 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: the game, which is crazy. But then when you switch 223 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: to her POV for a long time, she's very different 224 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: than Ellie, So it's a way body like her body 225 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: type is. So it's a way of differentiating the biting 226 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: styles that they have. So she Abby is much less 227 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: stealthy but much stronger, and that's just like a way 228 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: to differentiate your gameplay style. It's kind of an interesting 229 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: thing where like halfway in the game you have to 230 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: sort of relearn your strategies. So I think that's one 231 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: of the things that I kind of love about this game. 232 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: But I think that's one of the reasons that they 233 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: were like, well, we don't have to do that because 234 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: it's not a game, but it is kind of wild that, Like, 235 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: this is one of the things where I kept saying, 236 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: it's going to be difficult for them to adapt some 237 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: of these things because you go from playing this character 238 00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: having this goal Ellie hunting Abby, and then you switch 239 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: and now you know Ellie is hunting Abby, and you 240 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: get these signs that she is around, but Abby doesn't 241 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: know it. Of course she doesn't know it, but you do. 242 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: So it is it's a very clever like way to 243 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: get you you feel on edge even though you're playing 244 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: the person that you had just wanted to kill as Elfie, 245 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: it's very very interesting to play like the two characters 246 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: who are in direct opposition to each other and knowing 247 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: that they're both trying to kill each other because you're 248 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: your Abby, like find then you're trying to find where 249 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: Ellie is at the theater, like, oh, I love it, 250 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: I love it. So one of the things that also 251 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: we didn't get to talk about too much, but I 252 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: think it's going to be interesting in the next season 253 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 1: is this idea of the causes that you believe in 254 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: or don't believe in, and in leadership. So we had 255 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: that conversation with Isaac Hughes saying, I thought Abby was 256 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: going to be the one to take this over. She's 257 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 1: the one that needs to take this over, and she's 258 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: not there. She's disappeared. And I think that the idea too, 259 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: of people and groups not being monoleiss is going to 260 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: be explored, because you know, Abby and her crew just 261 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: went to the WLF because they didn't really have anywhere 262 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: else to go and they needed the resources, or at 263 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: least Abby believed they needed the resources. That the WLF 264 00:17:54,680 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: had to train and hunt down Droll to find Joel, 265 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: and so I think that's interesting as a contrast with 266 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: Ellie as well, or not. Maybe a similarity is that Ellie, 267 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: when she has her speech or she's trying to convince 268 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: the Jackson Whole crew to go find Abby and execute her, 269 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: she doesn't. I don't think she really believes that. I 270 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: think she she was hoping they would say yes, but 271 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: really she was like, I don't care. I don't believe 272 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: in this whole thing. So we'll see where that goes. 273 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: That also brings us to Dina and Ellie's love their romance. 274 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: I am not at all surprised that people are calling 275 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: it woke. I've always I just have zero surprise of 276 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: my heart for that. But I will tell you the 277 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 1: first time I played it. There are some instances wherein 278 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: online internet bros call something woke and I don't agree, 279 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: but I get what they're saying because it feels forced, 280 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: or it feels poorly written, or it feels like a 281 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: company that's just trying to signal something. I don't agree, 282 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: but I kind of am like, Okay, I see where 283 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: this is coming from. I never felt that with the 284 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: last times. To me, it felt very natural. I was 285 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,360 Speaker 1: very I thought it was sweet. I wanted to tappen. 286 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: It didn't even take me out of the story at all. 287 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: But the thing is, I also have a liberal bubble, 288 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: and I'm trying to be more aware of my like bubbles. 289 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: But so to me, it just doesn't I have a 290 00:19:54,320 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: lot of gay friends, so it doesn't seem like, oh, 291 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 1: that's weird. Instead it's like, oh, that's nice. It's like 292 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: a well told, fleshed out, complex love story. And I 293 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 1: have been thinking about this for a while. But a lot, 294 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 1: a lot of the angry rhetoric rhetoric I'm sitting on line, 295 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: it's like they're trying to use arguments that sound almost rational, 296 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: like they're trying to be like some conservative women politicians, 297 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: do you, Or they're like, that's not feminist, but really 298 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: it's what they're talking about is anti feminist. So Dina 299 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: and Ellie's relationship was an interesting example because I read 300 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 1: so many articles that were like they were just basically 301 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: dismissing it and saying that it doesn't add anything or 302 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: doesn't have depth or all this stuff. They're trying to 303 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: make it sound like it's just in here to be 304 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: in here, and I don't feel like it is. But 305 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: the arguments they were using were very like, this is 306 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: actually anti LGBTQ, you know what I mean. Weird, Yeah, 307 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: And I don't. I just never felt that. And that's 308 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: not to say like no piece of media is perfect, 309 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: but I just don't. That wasn't the vibe that I got. 310 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,719 Speaker 1: And I think that they're trying to make it sound 311 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: like they're being the reasonable ones and actually the ones 312 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: that are more knowledgeable about this, But I just I 313 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: just don't think it's coming from a good place because 314 00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: a lot of the a lot of stuff has said 315 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: they really loved Dina and they think her characterization is 316 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: better in the show than it is in the game, 317 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: and they're somehow using that to say that this relationship 318 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: isn't a good relationship. I'm kind of confused by the 319 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: whole thing, to be honest. But I also had this 320 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: thought when I was watching it last night, because I've 321 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: seen a lot of people say I just don't want 322 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: to see this, I just don't want to see it, 323 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: and I think a lot of them were referring to 324 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: the very non explicit sex scene, but it just kind 325 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: of made me laugh because it runs against the long 326 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 1: standing trope of men wanting to see two women together, 327 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,239 Speaker 1: and now that they see it, when it's like a 328 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: real relationship, they don't have. 329 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 2: Their case, which is why Dina's more acceptable, because it's 330 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 2: still like what a male will think of a lesbian, right, 331 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 2: what they want, Yeah, I want to think of as 332 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 2: lesbian who is still feminine and cutesy and all that, 333 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 2: and then not that Bella Rameses not but not to 334 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 2: their standard because she's more masculine. 335 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, it's just very interesting to me when I'm like, oh, 336 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: this is where if it's actually a real thing, right, 337 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: you don't like it? I don't actually like it. No. 338 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: Another thing I picked up on is this isn't such 339 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: a big thing in the game. It is kind of 340 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: it's talked about, but they really hammer home the loss 341 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 1: of knowledge in this the loss of knowledge in this world, 342 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 1: the loss of experts, And in the game you do 343 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: have moments as the player where you're like, oh, they 344 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,919 Speaker 1: don't know what this is, and it's sort of played 345 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: almost like darkly funny, like, oh, they don't know what 346 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: that is, so I know a show it's very like, oh, 347 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: this person has died, maybe no one else left knows 348 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: how to do that, which I think is a really 349 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 1: I'm glad they put that in there. I think that's 350 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 1: a pretty devastating way that many of us might not 351 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,719 Speaker 1: think about when we think about the end of the world, 352 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: to remind you that, Yeah, I mean, what are they 353 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: going to do? Is it just going Is this just 354 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: like the slow Will there be any recovery, any recovery 355 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: from this, or we're just eventually all going to die out? 356 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: And I had that moment when I was watching the 357 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: scene between Ellie and Mel who Mel was training under 358 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: Abby's dad, and Abby's dad was like, really, he was 359 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: the believe to be one of the last stone, if 360 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: not the last stone person that could have made a vaccine, 361 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: so she was like his protege, and she kind of 362 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 1: immediately it's just like asking Ellie to try to save 363 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: her baby. Whether it's desperation, whether it's she just is like, 364 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: we're all this stuff together, so you're gonna help me 365 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: right now, because she knows once she's gone, there's no 366 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: one else. There's no one else there, and no one 367 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: else with her skill set perhaps, and it's just it's 368 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: a real it's a real downer is what it is. 369 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:47,479 Speaker 1: It's it's effective. I think it's effective of reminding you 370 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 1: of the things that are lost that are maybe not 371 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: the first big things you think of, but that loss 372 00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: of knowledge. Okay, so this kind of transitions into some 373 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: of the backlash, But first I want to reiterate I 374 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 1: don't be careful what you take is truth. There's a 375 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: reason I said in the very first episode of our 376 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: mini series that I think the last was to Reddit 377 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: is one of the most toxic places on the Internet. 378 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: There's a concerted effort to make you think that these 379 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: things are true and or just confuse you. But when 380 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: the game came out, it was very, very controversial. It 381 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: was I don't think I can even explain to you. 382 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 1: You can go online and on YouTube. You can watch 383 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: the documentary Grounded, which is about how it got made 384 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: for free, and it has a whole bit in there 385 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: about how how bad it was. But it was bad. 386 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: It was one of those things where if you mentioned 387 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: you liked it in conversation you were running kind of 388 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:16,400 Speaker 1: a risk, especially around dudes. But it is one of 389 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 1: the most awarded and critically acclaimed games of all time. 390 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: It is one of the best selling games of all time. 391 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: So I think that is a reminder that you know, 392 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,959 Speaker 1: these things you hear online sometimes get really amplified, but 393 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: they have to, I mean the truth if we're talking 394 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: about sales. And by the way, some people are like, 395 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,400 Speaker 1: that's just all pre orders. And then when I found 396 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: out I didn't like it, but no, because the sales 397 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 1: saw boost and they continuously sell. And then when like 398 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: the Rebaster remake came out, whatever it was, we were 399 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: all mad about it. We all bought it. Anyway, like 400 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: people still like it, and this show is the same. 401 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: The sales actually went up after the show came out, 402 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 1: which I'm interested in because I guess it's people wanting 403 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:26,120 Speaker 1: to find out how what happens next. That brings us 404 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: to our listener mail we received, especially one from Margaret. 405 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: We got one from Margaret and Kelsey about kind of 406 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: these things, and Margaret was like, you know, I've never 407 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: played a video game before, but you've convinced me to 408 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: do it, and I wished me luck, and I'm wishing 409 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: you luck, Margaret, because this is a very Actually I 410 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: don't think the game is hard. I think it's pretty good. 411 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: But I was talking to good in terms of like 412 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: ease of controls. But I was talking about I was 413 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: talking to a friend about this the other day and 414 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: she was like, sometimes I feel like gamers just overestimate 415 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: how much knowledge you just have, and as non gamers 416 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: do so like X normally does this or swear normally 417 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: does this, like across a bunch of games. And she 418 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: was talking about how she felt embarrassed to even try 419 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: because her partner is trying to get her to play 420 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: games outside of like Mario Kart, and she was just saying, like, 421 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: it just makes me tense and I can't. I feel 422 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: like he's taking for granted that I don't know what 423 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: he's talking about. So I think that's a very fair point. 424 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: I hope that it is a good experience for you, 425 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: but if not, if you just decide it's not for you, 426 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: there are plenty of videos online you can watch a gameplay. 427 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: As I've said, maybe one day mine will be up there. 428 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: But I'm very interested to hear how your journey goes, 429 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: and I hope it goes well. But it is I mean, 430 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: it's one of those games games where like a lot 431 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: of people start on something maybe not as you know, 432 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: not as complicated as the last of us too, but 433 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: I really hope it goes well. And there are a 434 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: bunch of settings by the way, you can turn on 435 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,239 Speaker 1: or turn off that'll be like press square whatever, so 436 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: just know, and difficulty modes like if I'm trying to 437 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: beat it fast, I played on light and I have 438 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: no regrets or embarrassment about it, then okay. So it 439 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: is hard to talk about some of this stuff, and 440 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: some of it I'm sure those of you who are 441 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: more aware or like, why haven't you talked about some 442 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: of these aspects yet? It's because it's really hard to 443 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: talk about this whole thing without spoiling it. It's meant 444 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: to be played as a whole story and then in 445 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: my opinion, literally played again. But here we go. So, yes, 446 00:30:55,160 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: the game had this huge backlash. It was massive. I 447 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: don't think I really have to explain what it was, 448 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: but essentially it was dudes being like, hey, you took 449 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: our main Manjol tried to make him into I guess 450 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: in their minds some kind of villain, which I don't 451 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: think that's true, but in their minds like make him 452 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: look bad then a make his play as Elie, who 453 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: now doesn't seem to even like Joel, Oh my god, 454 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: and then you have the gall to make us play 455 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: as abby And there's a lot of anti trans stuff 456 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,959 Speaker 1: that will get towards when we get to her season. 457 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: That happened around that because she was so buff and 458 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: they were just furious. They were furious. There were death threats. 459 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: It was like, I mean, I wouldn't like I said. 460 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: It was one of those things where I had to 461 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: trust you. If I even bring up that I loved it, 462 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: it was bad news. So when the show came out, 463 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: I already knew there was gonna be backlash. So it's 464 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: to me, I was like, yep, I remember what happened 465 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: when the game came out. This is no surprise. I 466 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: am disappointed. I am not at all surprised. I think 467 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: that a lot of things are fueling this narrative that 468 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: everyone's everyone hated it, or everybody's angry about it or whatever. 469 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: I don't think it's true personally, That's not been my experience, 470 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: but I do think there's a lot of like thoughts 471 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: and just really angry people who are fueling it. And 472 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: it's fascinating to me because a lot of the things 473 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: I've been seeing are gamers who are mad that it's 474 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: not like the game, but they hated the game, and 475 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: so I'm like, guess you hated that in the game, 476 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: and now they changed it, and now you're mad about it. 477 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: I think they want to be proven correct. I think 478 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: they're like a lot of them are really angry because 479 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 1: they think that Ellie was characterized much as I said, 480 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: much nicer, Like everybody's kind of a gentler characterization of 481 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: themselves in the show than they are in the game, 482 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: at least on the front. And I think they were 483 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: mad because they were like, no, I want you to 484 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 1: do what they did in the game so I could 485 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: be like, see, see how terrible it is. And I 486 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 1: have been really disappointed in a lot of women who 487 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: are mad both that Pedro Pascal got killed off, which 488 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: I get at her, at Ellie because they're usually they 489 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: say she's an ungrateful or something like that, which it's 490 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: I get you're supposed to. All the characters in the 491 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,400 Speaker 1: Last of Us are complicated, like there are at times 492 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 1: when I was angry at Ellie too, but I don't 493 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: think we're giving like a fair shape to what happens 494 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: and why she was angry and how young she is 495 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: and all of that stuff, and I get it because 496 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: Joel's Pimpedro Pascal is so nice and when scenes we 497 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,879 Speaker 1: see with them together are very sweet, but I think 498 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: we have to take in the reality of it. And 499 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: some people have complained that I'm too forgiving to Ellie 500 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: and Abby and not enough to Joel, and I don't 501 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: think that's true at all. I think I'm just more 502 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,879 Speaker 1: vocal about Abby and Ellie because Joel doesn't need it. 503 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 1: Joel does not need my protection because people generally are 504 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 1: on his side, and I get why, and I like 505 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: him as a character, but I also just think we 506 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: have to take in the realities of who he is 507 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: if we're going to take in the realities of everybody 508 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: else and the reality of what he did. And you 509 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: can come out on either side of that whatever however 510 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,720 Speaker 1: you feel about it, but I just don't. I feel 511 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: like we're not giving a lot of the women characters 512 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 1: the same space and that if you don't mind potentially 513 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,919 Speaker 1: being spoiled. Is something that we talked about in our 514 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 1: Women in Survival Horror Games episode and how I felt 515 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:57,320 Speaker 1: like women in Revenge we don't give them the same 516 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: space that we do men in Revenge and I mean 517 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: that's part of the complication as well, is that Joel's 518 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: story is sort of a I don't know, I guess 519 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: some people would call it like a he a rescue story, 520 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 1: like he's protecting this young girl, and then almost kind 521 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: of a redemption story. But I think we talked about 522 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: that who gets redemption as well and our women in 523 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 1: Forgiveness episode who do we allow these redemption arcs? And 524 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 1: who do we not? So all that to say, I 525 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 1: was not surprised, and I, to be honest with you, 526 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 1: didn't engage in it at all. I haven't been on 527 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 1: social media in a long time, and this is one 528 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: of the reasons. A lot of the fandoms I love 529 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: are very toxic, and I just don't It wasn't a 530 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: good use of my energy. So I knew it was 531 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: going to happen. I knew it was happening, but I 532 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: kind of distance myself from it, like I didn't want 533 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 1: that to kind of taint my experience. But I know 534 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:26,720 Speaker 1: it was huge. I've gotten Google alerts about it because 535 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: every they all know I love the Last of Us, 536 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,439 Speaker 1: so I get updates about it, and you know, even 537 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: the creators said, we know people are going to be mad, 538 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: and they've had to release several statements lately about it. 539 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 1: But they also were like, this is the story and 540 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 1: we don't want to we don't want to compromise on it. 541 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: And I'm glad they didn't because I love the story. 542 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: But it does suck because it is something that people 543 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 1: put a lot of hard work into you, and in 544 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 1: this case, we're getting two main casting backlashes, which is 545 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:13,320 Speaker 1: Bella Ramsey and Caitlyn Deaver Ellien Abbey. I honestly, I 546 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: think they both did a wonderful job. There's I don't. 547 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: There's no part of me that it's like this is miscast. 548 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: But I did read some interesting articles about Bella Ramsey 549 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:29,959 Speaker 1: being quote miscast and how it actually creates an interesting opportunity. 550 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: From what I can gather, most of these arguments are physical. 551 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: They're all about appearance, and again, I just feel like 552 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:44,720 Speaker 1: if you're pretty close to the character, then I don't 553 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: I don't care for doing a good at acting job 554 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: and the characters being created and being cared for. I 555 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: don't really care. But honestly, most of it and people 556 00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 1: you can write in and correct me if I'm wrong, 557 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 1: because a lot of the like I said is very hateful, 558 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: and I've been avoiding it, like purposefully avoiding it because 559 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 1: I've heard it. I heard it when the game came out, 560 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,840 Speaker 1: and I just didn't want to. I don't want to 561 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: deal with it. But from what I can tell, it's 562 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: mostly about physicality, and like I said, people are a 563 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:24,319 Speaker 1: little they're annoyed that they I think they feel like 564 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,720 Speaker 1: they're the characterizations of Appy and Ellie are quote nicer, 565 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: which I think that there's a lot of reasons why 566 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,840 Speaker 1: that might be, but one of them is just the 567 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,239 Speaker 1: the way show, the media of a show works versus 568 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: the media of a game. But also they knew there 569 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: was going to be this huge backlash so they were 570 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 1: trying to preempt it in some ways. And as I said, 571 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,359 Speaker 1: they on their next game, Naughty Dog's Next game, which 572 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 1: is the studio behind the last, but they even have 573 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,919 Speaker 1: a boot camp for dealing with this kind of which 574 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 1: is so unfortunate. I'm glad that they're like taking steps, 575 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: but I hate that that's a thing at all. And 576 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: then one of the things listener Margaret brought up too 577 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: is that they're trying to be like so many people 578 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:27,919 Speaker 1: stopped watching after Joel died which is possible. There's been 579 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: like a lot of mixed, mixed news reports about that, 580 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: and actually, surprisingly, streaming services are real cagy about how 581 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: much how many people are watching their shows. And I 582 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: think two years ago there was a whole like push 583 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: to get Netflix in particular, to release their data. 584 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 2: Didn't they do a whole like lawsuit trying to hire 585 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 2: their data or at least because they were doing something 586 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 2: really yeah, like that's not right and they were counting 587 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,240 Speaker 2: like barely seconds type of thing. 588 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,120 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, so, and you know, to be honest, we 589 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:10,799 Speaker 1: can speak to that, yes, podcasters. Yeah, well, because that 590 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: they constantly are changing how they calculate what counts as 591 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,080 Speaker 1: a listener, what counts as a watch. So I mean again, 592 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:20,879 Speaker 1: I would just say take these things with a grain 593 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 1: of salts. I know, HBO released a statement about it 594 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,760 Speaker 1: and they were like, nah, we're good, but who knows. 595 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:32,360 Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't be surprised, But I'm also like, 596 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:36,239 Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if it's being way over exaggerated. 597 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 1: Are just not true at all, or they don't have 598 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,799 Speaker 1: they have no idea, because honestly, I tried to look 599 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 1: into it and I just found so many different things, 600 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 1: so who knows. I know it's it's kind of hard 601 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:58,000 Speaker 1: to avoid if you're if you're on social media. I 602 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: just know it's hard to avoid. But I would suggests 603 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,759 Speaker 1: like a lot of that is blown up. A lot 604 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 1: of that is like Echo Chamber. It exists, one thousand percent. 605 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,239 Speaker 1: It exists, and it's not small, but it's not as 606 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 1: big as I think people are making it out to be. 607 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: Like I said, the game is like sold more than 608 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:25,240 Speaker 1: almost any game like it's I wish it would go away. 609 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of things I could do. I 610 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:32,760 Speaker 1: don't know, need to whole different internet landscape, I guess, 611 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 1: but I just take things with this knowledge in hand 612 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,239 Speaker 1: that they want you to think everyone hates it, and 613 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,040 Speaker 1: I'm here to tell you that it's not true and 614 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: I am not alone. So yes, anyway, I hope that 615 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: kind of answers question. I could have looked into it 616 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: like Bore specifically, maybe I will in the future, but 617 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:02,879 Speaker 1: I was just like, I don't want to deal with 618 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: these I don't want to. I just don't think it's 619 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,919 Speaker 1: I know why it's gotten so much hate. They think 620 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:19,880 Speaker 1: it's it's woke and they're mad about Joel and they're 621 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 1: really angry about the LGBTQ plus representation, So I guess 622 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:31,600 Speaker 1: I just wasn't surprised. We did talk about it a 623 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:35,880 Speaker 1: little bit, I think in the episode episode seven, no 624 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 1: episode five, if you want to hear more about it. 625 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,040 Speaker 1: But that's kind of why I know it's a big deal, 626 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,200 Speaker 1: but that's kind of why we didn't really bring it 627 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:49,359 Speaker 1: up that much other than that episode. But yeah, I 628 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:53,360 Speaker 1: do recommend that documentary if you're curious grounded on to 629 00:43:53,520 --> 00:44:08,279 Speaker 1: find it on YouTube. Also, I think that kind of enclosing, 630 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:14,840 Speaker 1: as I said, my dad had died not too long 631 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,640 Speaker 1: before this, after this came out, before this came out, 632 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:25,520 Speaker 1: and I think when I watch it and when I 633 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:30,600 Speaker 1: play it, it's so interesting to me because it does 634 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:37,799 Speaker 1: feel like I'm processing grief and that's the power of 635 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:42,839 Speaker 1: good storytelling and kind of all the things, the phases 636 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:51,040 Speaker 1: that you go through, and how devastating and destructive some 637 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:56,759 Speaker 1: of them can be. Even before, because our relationship had 638 00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:01,440 Speaker 1: deteriorated so poorly, I started saying things to him that 639 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:05,600 Speaker 1: I meant to hurt meant to hurt him, and you know, 640 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:10,640 Speaker 1: you look back and you're like, wow, I wish I'd 641 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:15,719 Speaker 1: never said that one. But so when I maybe that's 642 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,399 Speaker 1: one of the reasons I'm so sympathetic to Ellie when 643 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,279 Speaker 1: she is being a brat, Like I get it, you 644 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,839 Speaker 1: kind of lash out in these ways, especially if there's 645 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,399 Speaker 1: like a secret no one's talking about, or at least 646 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:33,440 Speaker 1: specifically in this case, which was what was going on. 647 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,759 Speaker 1: And then you're going to see on Abby's side, what 648 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:43,360 Speaker 1: I think is actually a really great representation of healing 649 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,960 Speaker 1: from trauma. Again, it's so hard to talk about this 650 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,480 Speaker 1: without spoiling anything, but just just that they have a 651 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:55,120 Speaker 1: good visual that they use that I think I can't 652 00:45:55,120 --> 00:46:00,200 Speaker 1: wait to talk about. But this does bring us to 653 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,560 Speaker 1: a little bonus. It's a little bit of a downer 654 00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:08,440 Speaker 1: as well, but it is Father's Day coming up. I 655 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:14,560 Speaker 1: often joke about how I have like these sad traditions 656 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,160 Speaker 1: around Father's Day. Anyone who's suffering, I know it stuff, 657 00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:19,840 Speaker 1: and I make light of things. That's just how I 658 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,279 Speaker 1: deal with it. So I understand it's really difficult, but 659 00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,840 Speaker 1: I find it really I was thinking about this because 660 00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:33,239 Speaker 1: my well, my dad died. My hyperfixation was on how 661 00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,480 Speaker 1: to train your dragon. I have no idea where that 662 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,279 Speaker 1: came from. We had no connection over this. I don't 663 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,720 Speaker 1: even know if he'd seen it, but it just happened 664 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:48,360 Speaker 1: and it became like my whole life. For months, I 665 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,600 Speaker 1: read all the books, I watch all the shows, all 666 00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,480 Speaker 1: the movies people got me like how to Train Your 667 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,799 Speaker 1: Dragon gifts, I went as Hiccup to Dragon con like 668 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:04,920 Speaker 1: it was my whole life. And then it's just one 669 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,200 Speaker 1: day went way, which is how a lot of hyperfixation works. 670 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,440 Speaker 1: But the live action movie is coming out, which by 671 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:16,960 Speaker 1: the way, has Nico Parker, who is Joel's daughter Sarah 672 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,960 Speaker 1: and the Last of Us connections connections, and people have 673 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:22,360 Speaker 1: been asking me, are you going to see it? And 674 00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:24,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, I want to see it, but I'm so 675 00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:29,440 Speaker 1: associated with my dad's death now, so I have to 676 00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,759 Speaker 1: be in a good place. But it's really funny to 677 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,680 Speaker 1: me that I don't associate the Last of Us two 678 00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,520 Speaker 1: with my dad's death, even though all the time I'm 679 00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:44,319 Speaker 1: thinking about, like, I get why this game resonated with 680 00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:48,560 Speaker 1: me so much when it came out. But that brings 681 00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,120 Speaker 1: us to the sad fact How to Train Your Dragon 682 00:47:52,239 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 1: fandom is somehow sharing itself a part two, and it's 683 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:06,359 Speaker 1: mostly because basically they cast a black woman. Oh, I mean, 684 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,360 Speaker 1: I don't know, that's my opinion, but they're saying like 685 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,479 Speaker 1: it's not historically accurate or whatever, and I just don't 686 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:14,200 Speaker 1: again why. 687 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:19,520 Speaker 2: Because dragons obviously accurate training them. 688 00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:23,840 Speaker 1: Yes, So it's just I'm like, why can't why can't 689 00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,200 Speaker 1: you just stop it? Just stop it if you don't 690 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:28,879 Speaker 1: like it, you don't like it, but you don't have 691 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:29,920 Speaker 1: to do this. 692 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:34,799 Speaker 2: Some peoples hobbies is just hate, make some joy to fight, 693 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,040 Speaker 2: give them some kind of adrenaline. 694 00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:42,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. I will say that I have a 695 00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,080 Speaker 1: friend like that, and I do avoid a lot of 696 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,799 Speaker 1: conversations about things like this with with them, But I 697 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,440 Speaker 1: also have I've had a couple of friends I've said, 698 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,080 Speaker 1: we're When I told them that the last of us 699 00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:56,920 Speaker 1: whoose my favorite game? They're like, oh, I hate it 700 00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:58,560 Speaker 1: for X, Y and Z. And I was like, play 701 00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,560 Speaker 1: it again, and they did. And then neighb are like, 702 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:05,160 Speaker 1: you know, okay, you were right because it's so jarring 703 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:09,400 Speaker 1: the first time. It really really is, just because you 704 00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:11,279 Speaker 1: have this anticipation of where the story is going to 705 00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,279 Speaker 1: go and then it doesn't go that way at all, 706 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:19,440 Speaker 1: and it's shocking, and so you kind of are like constantly. 707 00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:22,200 Speaker 1: When I remember when you first turned to Abby, I 708 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,880 Speaker 1: kept thinking, when am we gonna turn back when? And 709 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:31,239 Speaker 1: they were like nope, like no, But then I loved it, 710 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:32,719 Speaker 1: like I go, but you have to kind of have 711 00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:34,879 Speaker 1: that moment of like, Okay, I have to accept this, 712 00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:42,080 Speaker 1: And I did say when I did the I think 713 00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:46,319 Speaker 1: it was when the newest version came out of the 714 00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:50,160 Speaker 1: game and I was talking about empathy and how I 715 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,520 Speaker 1: found it really interesting that most of my women friends 716 00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:59,479 Speaker 1: who have played it have come to a very empathetic place, 717 00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,279 Speaker 1: and most of the men I see online who are 718 00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:12,000 Speaker 1: mad neverver ever even think about empathy, are like, no 719 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:16,200 Speaker 1: way will I ever see this from this another person's 720 00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:21,360 Speaker 1: point of view ever. But the point being that sometimes 721 00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:25,399 Speaker 1: I have had some people in my life who were 722 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,640 Speaker 1: real mad about Last of Us too. Then I just 723 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:33,960 Speaker 1: was like, nope, go play it, and now they've kind 724 00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,359 Speaker 1: of backed off. So I hope that there are some 725 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,680 Speaker 1: people online like that. But I do think you're right 726 00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:42,040 Speaker 1: that there's some people that are just they just want 727 00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:46,240 Speaker 1: to piss people off. They want to see that those 728 00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:52,239 Speaker 1: angry replies are people who agree with them, And I 729 00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,719 Speaker 1: do think a lot of it is about wanting to 730 00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,759 Speaker 1: get people agree that you are right. They should never 731 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,839 Speaker 1: have done this with the Last of Us too, And 732 00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:06,759 Speaker 1: in fact, the voice actor Troy Baker, who played Joel, 733 00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,520 Speaker 1: has done and in interviews he said he gets really 734 00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,160 Speaker 1: frustrated because people come up to him and they were like, 735 00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,200 Speaker 1: it was so wrong what they did to you. They 736 00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:21,080 Speaker 1: never should have done that. And his go to question is, 737 00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,319 Speaker 1: then tell me a better story. What's the story you're 738 00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,680 Speaker 1: going to tell? And he says, they never have it answered. 739 00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:32,640 Speaker 1: And even my mom she kind of jokingly was like, 740 00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:38,320 Speaker 1: how could they do that to patri Pascal. He basically 741 00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,239 Speaker 1: she's sort of saying like he needs a job, and 742 00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:41,360 Speaker 1: I'm like, he's everywhere. 743 00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:44,279 Speaker 2: He purposely picked this because he knew he was going 744 00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:44,640 Speaker 2: to die. 745 00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:45,959 Speaker 1: That's all I think. 746 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,560 Speaker 2: I think said that he said I read the script, 747 00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:49,320 Speaker 2: I died. 748 00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,240 Speaker 1: Right, because I think and I know it's still sad. 749 00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:57,440 Speaker 1: He's still sad to have lost like a character that 750 00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:59,319 Speaker 1: he cared about. But I think he's probably nice as 751 00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,319 Speaker 1: an actor to be like, Okay, I know when I'm 752 00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:03,440 Speaker 1: out and I can do these different projects, I can 753 00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,240 Speaker 1: mind up and guess what he's in a Marble movie. 754 00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,840 Speaker 1: He's got like four other movies out right now. He's fine. 755 00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,680 Speaker 2: He's fine, he doesn't care. He knew what he was 756 00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:16,399 Speaker 2: getting into and he liked it. 757 00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,600 Speaker 1: He did. And I mean, if we're gonna talk about 758 00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:25,960 Speaker 1: like character differences, he definitely, like I said in one 759 00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,600 Speaker 1: of the I think episode six, it was interesting to 760 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,560 Speaker 1: hear him who's never played the game, talk about how 761 00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,759 Speaker 1: he views Joel, and I was like, Oh, I like this. 762 00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:40,839 Speaker 1: It's definitely not how I view It's a much nicer take. 763 00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:47,680 Speaker 1: But okay, I've just rambled so long. It was supposed 764 00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,040 Speaker 1: to be a question and answer, and then I just 765 00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:50,600 Speaker 1: went on. 766 00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:52,359 Speaker 2: She did an out line, y'all. I didn't have any 767 00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,840 Speaker 2: questions because she did an outline. Oh she's prepared. I'm good. 768 00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:59,480 Speaker 1: If I see an outline. She's got a thought process. 769 00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:05,239 Speaker 1: I have so many thoughts, and I'm sure, like this 770 00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,160 Speaker 1: will be it for a while, but I'm sure I'll 771 00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,319 Speaker 1: come back and have more thoughts and we'll talk more 772 00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:14,480 Speaker 1: about the toxic fandom part of it. But for now, 773 00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,520 Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you to the listeners 774 00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:20,160 Speaker 1: who have written in and have been supportive, and I 775 00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,640 Speaker 1: love how many of you are like I get this 776 00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:27,080 Speaker 1: Joel thing. But Bella Ramsey's right there. Like, I love 777 00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,640 Speaker 1: how many of you are being very supportive of these characters. Yes, 778 00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:36,880 Speaker 1: who gets so much online hate? So thank you and 779 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,719 Speaker 1: I love hearing from you. And if you email me 780 00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,160 Speaker 1: about it, I will send you along email in response 781 00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:47,920 Speaker 1: about my thoughts, so be prepared, be prepared. But all right, 782 00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,839 Speaker 1: that's it for now. If you would like to email us, 783 00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,120 Speaker 1: you can. You can email us at Hello at stuff 784 00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:55,239 Speaker 1: iever Told You dot com. You can also find us 785 00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:57,480 Speaker 1: on Blue Sky also a podcast, or on Instagram and 786 00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:59,880 Speaker 1: TikTok at Stuff I've Never Told You for us on YouTube, 787 00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:01,920 Speaker 1: tea public store, and we have a book you can 788 00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,120 Speaker 1: get wherever you get your books things. As always too 789 00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,160 Speaker 1: our super reduced Christina expect to producer My and your 790 00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,880 Speaker 1: contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you for listening 791 00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:10,759 Speaker 1: Stuff I Never Told You production by Heart Radio. For 792 00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:12,279 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out 793 00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:14,120 Speaker 1: the Heart Radio ap Apple Podcasts or where you listen 794 00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:14,880 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows