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Speaker 1: In today's episode of Tickets of the Draft podcast, we

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Speaker 1: have Sneaky Sleepers, We got the Sexy six. It's a

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Speaker 1: pro football focused takeover with Sam Monson and Trevor Sikama,

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Speaker 1: and it's talking about everything that Commanders can do in

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Speaker 1: this draft. It starts right out, Welcome to Ticket to

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Speaker 1: the Draft podcast, presented by a Seat Geek, the official

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Speaker 1: primary taking partner of the Washington Commanders.

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Speaker 2: And today is a pro football focused takeover.

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Speaker 1: We've got Sam Munson on later, but right now, we've

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Speaker 1: got Trevor Sikima, the host of the NFL Stockings Chase podcast,

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Speaker 1: the guy who makes all the draft content you want

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Speaker 1: to consume. Trevor, how you doing man? Thanks for joining

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Speaker 1: us logan.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing fantastic. Man.

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Speaker 4: I didn't even know that this is a PFF super

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Speaker 4: show that you have going on here, so you know,

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Speaker 4: hopefully I'm setting the tone the right way here with

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Speaker 4: this low draft exercise.

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Speaker 1: I mean, are you now like the staple for PFF.

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Speaker 1: You're the staple for PFF draft content? I'm assuming, right?

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Speaker 5: Nice.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I have a great team of guys that

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Speaker 4: I work with to like put together the draft guide

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Speaker 4: and everything like that. But Yeah, Man, taking this lead

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Speaker 4: draft analyst role at the beginning of the summer, it's

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Speaker 4: been it's.

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Speaker 3: Been a blast.

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Speaker 4: But we're doing more draft content than I have even

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Speaker 4: ever done, which has been exciting and also nerve wracking,

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Speaker 4: but coming towards the end, so it's kind of we're

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Speaker 4: getting to figure out what the answers to these questions are.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 3: So it's been it's been a very fun process, and.

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Speaker 4: I'm excited to talk some some not as notable names

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Speaker 4: here with you on this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, because you know, because you're the guy,

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Speaker 1: you're the man. You're the man, the myth, the legend,

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Speaker 1: and we are talking Sleepers and the way we're defining

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Speaker 1: Sleepers as a mid or later round guy that is

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Speaker 1: a trader, measurable that could be maybe kind of hopefully

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Speaker 1: be able to find some success in the pro So

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Speaker 1: that's what we're looking at here, right, So, you know,

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Speaker 1: traits a loose chirm here kind of guys. The way

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Speaker 1: the way I, you know, did this assignment was guys

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Speaker 1: that I just liked. So I guess because you're the guests,

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Speaker 1: you can go first. And your first name is someone

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Speaker 1: that I have not watched yet. So I'm really excited

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Speaker 1: to learn a little bit about him.

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Speaker 3: Okay, is this is this? Kaylen? Carson?

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Speaker 1: Is this?

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Speaker 3: How did you write them down in the correct Yes?

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Speaker 1: I wrote them down in order. I think that's the

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Speaker 1: correct order. So kayl and Carson is the guy.

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Speaker 4: So Kayln Carson, the cornerback from Wake Forest, is somebody

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Speaker 4: that I was really high on going into the season.

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Speaker 4: When we do summer scouting, we go through a lot

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Speaker 4: of these guys, and you know, summer scouting is an

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Speaker 4: interesting time because there's a lot of these players who

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Speaker 4: might be draft eligible for the first time, who are underclassmen,

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Speaker 4: who former five stars, former four stars, who just like,

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Speaker 4: you're really betting on the traits of these players, and

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Speaker 4: you're kind of sifting out, like, all right, is this

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Speaker 4: a high potential guy and this guy can't really play yet?

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Speaker 4: Or is this somebody who's been playing some really good ball.

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Speaker 4: And when I watched Carson this summer, I felt like

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Speaker 4: he was playing some really good ball. Now, the thing

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Speaker 4: that I like about him the most, the way that

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Speaker 4: you set this thing up is the trait that I

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Speaker 4: continue to gravitate towards with him is he will tackle,

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Speaker 4: he will come up and hit you, He'll wrap you up,

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Speaker 4: whether it's in cover three, whether it's in pressed, whether

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Speaker 4: it's close to the lion of scrimmage with a quick

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Speaker 4: hit throw, or whether it's deeper down the field and

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Speaker 4: intermedia dep throw something over the middle like this dude's

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Speaker 4: not afraid to wrap you up, tackle and really put

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Speaker 4: his shoulder into you as well. And it feels like

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Speaker 4: that's a little bit of a theme with that Wake

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Speaker 4: Forest defensive back group that they have there, and Carson

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Speaker 4: is absolutely somebody who is helping to lead that charge.

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Speaker 4: Now it worries me a little bit because I don't

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Speaker 4: think he's the best athlete. Like I think he's got

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Speaker 4: good size, but sometimes he struggles to turn a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes it's just a little bit slower to flip those hips.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes that top gear speed of that recovery speed, specifically

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Speaker 4: when he's chasing.

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Speaker 3: Guys vertically, that's a little bit lacking.

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Speaker 4: And anytime you're lacking in athleticism for the cornerback position,

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Speaker 4: if I see that on a college tape, it's only

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Speaker 4: gonna get tougher at the NFL level.

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Speaker 3: So I worry about that a little bit.

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Speaker 4: I wonder if because of that he's got to be

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Speaker 4: primarily an off coverage kind of a guy at cover three,

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Speaker 4: a quarters kind of a dude where you're playing, you know,

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Speaker 4: five to six seven yards off the line of scrimmage.

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Speaker 3: But if you let him keep things in front of.

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Speaker 4: Him, he'll come downhill, he'll make those tackles, he'll blow

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Speaker 4: up screens, things like that. So, because of the athletical

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Speaker 4: limitations and the lack of production that we saw this

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Speaker 4: past year, I think the Carson is going to be

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Speaker 4: probably somewhere early day three range. But I just love

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Speaker 4: the way he approaches the position physically, and so somebody

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Speaker 4: who I think is a sleeper in this class.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting you bring him up because on Daniel Jeremiah

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Speaker 1: Bucky Book's padcast, they talk about how, you know, Kansas

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Speaker 1: City and Baltimore have done a really good job kind

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Speaker 1: of finding tackling physical corners and how those guys tend

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Speaker 1: to play in the league because now all these these

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Speaker 1: running schemes are designed to get the ball to the

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Speaker 1: worst tackler supposedly, which is the corner. So in addition

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Speaker 1: to the coverage, they got to be able to tackle.

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Speaker 1: So do you think, like, do you think he's a

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Speaker 1: developmental guy. Like, how would you characterize him, right, because

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Speaker 1: you've mentioned some of his limitations there, right, Like what

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Speaker 1: is his role kind of year one? Is he a

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Speaker 1: special teams guy? Is he a nickel guy? Is he

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Speaker 1: a safety?

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Speaker 2: Like? Like what do you see his role being?

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Speaker 4: It's hard for me, Like, you know, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Half a decade decade ago, I'd be like, oh, you

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Speaker 4: could just put him in a nickel you could just

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Speaker 4: have me or CV three, you can put him in nickel.

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Speaker 4: But now you know this, like today's age, you're getting

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Speaker 4: wide receiver ones that they're putting in the slot, right,

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Speaker 4: I mean, like you can't just be like the third

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Speaker 4: best corner on the team to play nickel. Sometimes you

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Speaker 4: literally have to draft or sign a nickel specialist, somebody

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Speaker 4: who that's their entire job because of the different assignment

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Speaker 4: is the could see there. So I think he's got

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Speaker 4: the mentality to be able to do it. I think

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Speaker 4: he has a developmental corner. I think he'd be a

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Speaker 4: great special teams player for you at the very worst

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Speaker 4: because of, like I said, that mentality that he brings.

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Speaker 4: But I do worry about that overall athleticism because that's

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Speaker 4: normally something that just doesn't get better at the NFL level.

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Speaker 4: It's hard to get more athletics. Certainly, you can shape

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Speaker 4: your body a certain way or you know, train maybe

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Speaker 4: a certain way to get a little bit quicker, a

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Speaker 4: little bit faster, and sometimes you can bump that up

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Speaker 4: a little bit. But for Carson, I do feel like

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Speaker 4: he's probably going to be a depth piece early on,

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Speaker 4: a good special teams player, and then if he can

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Speaker 4: anticipate the game at an elite level, that can sometimes

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Speaker 4: make up for that half step you might be a

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Speaker 4: little bit slow to react to somebody if you didn't

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Speaker 4: see it come and where if you can anticipate things,

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Speaker 4: especially from an off coverage perspective, you can still be

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Speaker 4: an impact player and you can still really help out

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Speaker 4: a defense.

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Speaker 3: So that's kind of the role that I have for him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think that's a great that's a great description.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen any of those kind of above the

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Speaker 1: net characteristics you were describing?

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Speaker 6: Then?

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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes when you watch a guy, you're like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: this guy's really intuitive, he's really smart. Have you seen

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Speaker 1: any of that or is that something he's gonna have

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Speaker 1: to develop?

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Speaker 6: You think?

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Speaker 4: No, I think that there are certainly flashes of it.

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Speaker 4: I really do like again, those times when he brings

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Speaker 4: the hardest hits on some of these players are the

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Speaker 4: ones where he really anticipates where.

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Speaker 3: The ball is going.

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Speaker 4: Again, like whether he talked about Baltimore or Kansas City

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Speaker 4: being these teams that have really good tackling corners. It's because,

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Speaker 4: again not just a run game, but also like the

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Speaker 4: quick game too, if you can't tackle, if you can't anticipate, well,

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Speaker 4: if you're not gonna be physical, we're gonna throw the

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Speaker 4: ball to your side and we're gonna make you either

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Speaker 4: get off the block or we're gonna make you tackle.

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Speaker 4: We're gonna leave you open, and we're gonna challenge you

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Speaker 4: to tackle our playmaker and our ball carrier. So there

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Speaker 4: are times with Carson where I have seen that anticipation

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Speaker 4: from him, and honestly, I felt like there was a

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Speaker 4: lot more of that in twenty twenty two when I

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Speaker 4: really liked him coming into the season. I think I

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Speaker 4: had him as you seeb five, maybe see be four

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Speaker 4: coming into the season. It's because that twenty twenty two tape,

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Speaker 4: I saw a lot of that anticipation, and so it

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Speaker 4: really masked some of the athletic limitations that I think

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Speaker 4: that he might have that I saw more of in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty three, So it is something that he's from capable.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's why you're the man.

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Speaker 1: You're watching film from twenty twenty two to twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: you probably watch him high school film.

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Speaker 2: Get it all in there.

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Speaker 1: And I'm gonna jump around on my list a little bit,

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Speaker 1: so not to mess you up, but because he went

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Speaker 1: to Wake Forest, same school. One of my sleepers is

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Speaker 1: Malik Mustafa from Wake Forest. He plays safety, and again,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the same qualities you described there in

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Speaker 1: the corner I think apply the safety. It is a

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Speaker 1: bigger kind of bulkier bill. He's five ten, five nine

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Speaker 1: whatever he is, but he's like two hundred and ten

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Speaker 1: hundred fifteen pounds and is fearless to the football, And

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Speaker 1: I think there's just value there, you know, there's just

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Speaker 1: value in that level of physicality. And like as a coach,

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Speaker 1: you know, having played in the NFL for a long time,

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Speaker 1: I think there's a there's a value to having guys

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Speaker 1: that want to play football, that want to hit, that

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Speaker 1: have that desire because I have a belief that they're

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Speaker 1: going to grow. So he's a guy that I just

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Speaker 1: really liked, enjoyed watching him. Again, there's some limitations there

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Speaker 1: in terms of how tight his hips are, how he

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Speaker 1: covers in space. Is there a true role for him

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Speaker 1: in that nickel or that safety position. But I like

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Speaker 1: dudes who like to play football in a physical manner,

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Speaker 1: and so I'm going to put him on the list, Dude,

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Speaker 1: That's how I'm going to operate in this in this

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Speaker 1: sleeper game that we made up.

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Speaker 4: Dude, again, like ten years ago, Malik Mustapha is probably

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Speaker 4: a top.

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Speaker 3: Fifty pick, right.

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Speaker 4: I mean, like he's somebody who will end force over

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Speaker 4: the middle. He's a strong safety type that you like

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Speaker 4: to leave him in an area where he can keep

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Speaker 4: his eyes over the middle. He can keep his eyes

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Speaker 4: in the backfield. If there's any sort of like swing

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Speaker 4: passes or anything, it's gonna be quick over the middle

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Speaker 4: that the linebackers might not be able to handle. I mean,

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Speaker 4: he's gonna come in to hitch it. And you mentioned

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Speaker 4: it is I think that that's an overall tone that

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Speaker 4: these guys have said. And I can't remember if it

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Speaker 4: was Mustafa or was maybe Kaylen Carson at the combine

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Speaker 4: they asked kind of about those two guys then playing

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Speaker 4: in the secondary, and they whoever it was, they smiled

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Speaker 4: and they're like, yeah, I mean, that's that's the tone.

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Speaker 3: Man's, that's what we want. That's the motto is we're.

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Speaker 4: Going to be physical with you guys, and we believe

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Speaker 4: that we're the best safety corner tackling duo in the country.

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Speaker 4: And I think that the tape definitely speaks to that.

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Speaker 4: With Mustafa, it's just kind of like you mentioned, he's

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Speaker 4: got a little bit of tight hips. You know, he's

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Speaker 4: I think he's a decent athlete, but it's hard to

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Speaker 4: ask a guy to play in like single coverage roles

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Speaker 4: if you really can't just turn and sprint, especially towards

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Speaker 4: the sideline, and so that's kind of tough. It kind

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Speaker 4: of pigeonholes you a little bit into being just more

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Speaker 4: of that box strong safety, which goes to his skill set,

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Speaker 4: but then shorter arms.

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Speaker 5: Man.

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Speaker 4: I think he's got below tenth percentile arm length for

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Speaker 4: a safety, and you unfortunately see that, like he's got

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Speaker 4: good fundamentals to wrap up, but when you're just physically

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Speaker 4: limited like that, you know that you're gonna see some

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Speaker 4: of those deficiencies, So I like Mustafa as well. He's

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Speaker 4: a fun player to like you mentioned that presence that

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Speaker 4: he brings on the back end, I think a lot

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Speaker 4: of teams are gonna like. But those would be the

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Speaker 4: reasons why I don't think that he's being picked higher.

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Speaker 3: In a draft like this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it kind of reminds me a little bit of

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Speaker 1: like Derek Forrest. Honestly, who's a guy here in Washington,

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Speaker 1: a guy that you know, special teams value early and

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Speaker 1: then kind of developed into something more as those instincts mature.

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Speaker 1: But like you said, Shorter, Arm's gonna be a big

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Speaker 1: deal for him. Kind of limited in terms of hip titness,

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Speaker 1: obviously gonna be a big deal now, guynother guy on

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Speaker 1: your list is defensive tack from Lsu Malik Wingo.

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Speaker 2: Can you talk about him a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I think he's a really interesting prospect because he absolutely

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Speaker 1: murdered the combine, But I see some limitations on tape.

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Speaker 2: What are your thoughts?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I like Mikay a lot.

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Speaker 4: I think that he is I think that he's an

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Speaker 4: iron man man. It feels like I know I miss

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Speaker 4: some time for me and hurt. But like even the

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Speaker 4: last couple of years like this dude's out there on

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Speaker 4: every single snap, Like there are some defensive tackles that

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Speaker 4: you got to rotate in and out, like sometimes you're

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Speaker 4: just carrying a lot of weight. You just can't play

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Speaker 4: every single snap. And Wingo was out there it felt

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Speaker 4: like all the time. So many pass rush reps, so

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Speaker 4: many run defense reps, and he's got all of those

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Speaker 4: snaps now under his belt. I think he's really experienced

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Speaker 4: in that regard. The thing that really stands out to

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Speaker 4: me with him when it comes to tape is and

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Speaker 4: where I would want to kind of like hang my

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Speaker 4: hat with the trait is dude can get off the ball.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if you put him in a three technique

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Speaker 4: position where he's got even a little bit of daylight

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Speaker 4: in the B gap or the A gap, whatever it is,

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Speaker 4: however tight the offensive line is there in front of him,

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Speaker 4: I mean, this dude can absolutely, you know, club rip

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Speaker 4: right by you. You know, he can get the arm

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Speaker 4: over it like a club arm over move to just

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Speaker 4: get into space and get into that gap and peer

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Speaker 4: into the backfield. He has some of the best like

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Speaker 4: one gap reps of any defensive tackle in this draft class.

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Speaker 4: He really does we just didn't see it enough. And

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Speaker 4: I think when it comes to run defense, he's a

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Speaker 4: little bit of a liability there. Despite playing a lot

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Speaker 4: of snaps. He's just somebody who has some of his

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Speaker 4: high run defense grades I noticed come from him still

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Speaker 4: being a one gap penetrator and he and not that

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Speaker 4: that's a bad thing. I don't want to take that

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Speaker 4: away from him too much, but like, if you're asking

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Speaker 4: this guy to hold the line of scrimmage for you,

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Speaker 4: or do well against a double team, like a duo block,

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Speaker 4: whatever it is, he's not really your guy for that.

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Speaker 4: A lot of the run defense stuff, a lot of

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Speaker 4: the tackles for loss in the backfield come from him

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Speaker 4: just having that pass rusher's mentality. So right now, going

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Speaker 4: into the league, I think he's a pass rush specialist.

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Speaker 4: He's somebody who if you need to put him on

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Speaker 4: the field in the third and long situations, I think

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Speaker 4: he can get by the guard.

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Speaker 3: I think he can get by the center for you.

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Speaker 4: But turning into that total three down line, and I

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Speaker 4: think he's gonna be a little bit of a work

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Speaker 4: in progress.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's for fans who aren't familiar with them.

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Speaker 1: He's a lot under side, he's like six to one,

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Speaker 1: he's like two hundred and eighty five pounds pass. Not

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Speaker 1: the biggest guy on the not the longest arms, and

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Speaker 1: not in my estimation. He's very twitched up, very good athlete,

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Speaker 1: but not quite like Elijah Kancy level, you know, and

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Speaker 1: I think those guys are you know that you think

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Speaker 1: those small guys need to be rushing in a very

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Speaker 1: specific way. He's got some traits, but not quite there yet.

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Speaker 1: But I do like that as a guy that could

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Speaker 1: fill a roll right away as that third down pass rusher.

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Speaker 1: And a guy that I'm gonna talk about is Leyden

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Speaker 1: Robinson from Texas A.

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Speaker 2: And M the Guard.

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Speaker 1: And he's a guy that, again, like you just watching film,

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Speaker 1: you're watching guards, and I love the physicality that he

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Speaker 1: plays with. I love the burst that he plays with.

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Speaker 1: I loved his energy at the Senior Bowl, just in

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Speaker 1: terms of finishing reps, and I think you can bet

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Speaker 1: on guys like that. He kind of reminds me of

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Speaker 1: like a West Schweitzer, young West Sweitzer again, that kind

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Speaker 1: of swing guard inside that has some physical limitations when

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Speaker 1: it comes to pass pro in terms of hip titness

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Speaker 1: and the ability to really kind of open up that

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Speaker 1: gate and get that kick slide going. But a guy

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Speaker 1: that you like the energy, you like the attitude, and

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Speaker 1: I like to bet on those traits when I'm bringing

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Speaker 1: guys into the building, and I think that's a guy

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Speaker 1: that you know, maybe not this year, maybe not next year,

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Speaker 1: but you know three four years down the road, could

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Speaker 1: be something that you can count on consistently at the

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Speaker 1: guard position.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, competitive toughness is a category that I have

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Speaker 4: for for trench play in particular. I mean, I think

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Speaker 4: it's massive. You talk to any coach and they will

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Speaker 4: continue to use the words competitive toughness, so much so

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Speaker 4: that as I've kind of gone through my own scouting

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Speaker 4: evaluation journey that I added it as a category for

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Speaker 4: almost every single player I think, but I especially emphasize

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Speaker 4: that and give it a lot of weight when it

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Speaker 4: comes to the trenches. These are guys that getting beat

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Speaker 4: up every single play. You're asked to go all out,

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Speaker 4: You're asked to give all of your energy, your strength,

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Speaker 4: your willpower, everything, and so you have to be a

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Speaker 4: competitive tough dude to be able to play in the

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Speaker 4: trenches at the NFL level. And Laden Robinson one of

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Speaker 4: the first things that I noticed when I was watching

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Speaker 4: this film, is Okay, this dude's given me the energy,

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Speaker 4: He's given me the juice. He's playing through the whistle

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Speaker 4: like I can tell he's trying to. He's like taking

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Speaker 4: it personally, like get into the second leve And that's

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Speaker 4: that competitive toughness category that I immediately go in and say, Okay,

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Speaker 4: this is well above average. This is somebody that is

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Speaker 4: going to score highly in this regard. So you know,

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Speaker 4: I think that that's really where you start with what

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Speaker 4: you like about him. I like the really wide base

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Speaker 4: from him. In his stance as well. He takes up

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Speaker 4: a lot of room. You can tell he's he's got

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Speaker 4: flexible groin, he's got his flexible knees like he's somebody

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Speaker 4: who there's just not much space between him and the

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Speaker 4: center and the tackle.

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Speaker 3: There's just not a lot of daylight.

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Speaker 4: We talked about it with Makai Wingo being able to

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Speaker 4: manipulate that as a pass rusher. There's just not a

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Speaker 4: lot of daylight standing next to him in his left

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Speaker 4: and right shoulder because of how wide his stance is

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Speaker 4: and how big he is as a player. You saw

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Speaker 4: him at the combine tested well when it came to

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Speaker 4: his explosiveness, and so you'll see that as a polar

381
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Speaker 4: or in zone blocking schemes. I think he's got good

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Speaker 4: enough weight in the lower half to where he can

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Speaker 4: really have that leg drive, especially in combo blocks. But

384
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Speaker 4: the technique stuff is stuff that's definitely still a work

385
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Speaker 4: in progress. You know, the aiming points when it comes

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Speaker 4: to blocking at the second level and guys in space,

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Speaker 4: you sometimes he just over commits to that, or he's

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Speaker 4: not getting to the aiming points suoner enough, or you know,

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Speaker 4: when it comes to those combo blocks. I noticed a

390
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Speaker 4: handful of times it's like, man, you're peeling off this

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00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,040
Speaker 4: before you needed to, and now all of a sudden,

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Speaker 4: the guy that you were supposed to combo block, he

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Speaker 4: makes the tackle and you're at the second level. It's like,

394
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,000
Speaker 4: you still got to be able to drive that dude

395
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Speaker 4: to give the running back a hole behind you, and

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Speaker 4: so little stuff like that. You mentioned some of the

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Speaker 4: past pro work as well. So he is somebody who

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Speaker 4: I think text A and M has really liked him

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Speaker 4: because of his athleticism. It's why he's been a three

400
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,600
Speaker 4: year starter for him. But he has to become more

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Speaker 4: technically sound. If he is going to get to that

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Speaker 4: starting role at the NFL level. And you mentioned maybe

403
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Speaker 4: second half of that rookie contract is a realistic timeline.

404
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Speaker 5: Or some of that.

405
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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so again it's all these guys have their awards,

406
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Speaker 1: but I think it's important for fans to understand, like

407
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Speaker 1: you build through that second half of the draft. So

408
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Speaker 1: a lot of these guys are gonna have to hit

409
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Speaker 1: for you. And these are some guys that we like.

410
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Speaker 1: And then your last guy's a tight end and I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna let you introduce him a guy that I think

412
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Speaker 1: is a really really INTERESTINGSS prospect from Colorado State.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Dalen Holker is my co host, Connor Rodgers calls

414
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,560
Speaker 4: him the incredible Hulker. He's just somebody who, man, I

415
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Speaker 4: think he's a really fun watch. He started his career

416
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Speaker 4: at BYU. I think Ian rolled for the first time

417
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Speaker 4: in twenty eight. Team didn't play a ton that season,

418
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Speaker 4: went on a two year church mission.

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Speaker 3: So he's one of those guys. He's a little bit

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Speaker 3: older of a prospect.

421
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Speaker 4: Comes back to BYU after that church mission, involved in

422
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Speaker 4: the offense, but not really as much as he wanted

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Speaker 4: to be, So he transfers over to Colorado State, and

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Speaker 4: he had by far the most productive numbers of his career.

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Speaker 4: They really utilized him, especially a step behind the line

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Speaker 4: of scrimmage.

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Speaker 3: Is that wing back player.

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Speaker 4: They used him a lot in that regard, used him

429
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,840
Speaker 4: as a blocker in those split zone blocking schemes, trying

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00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:29,160
Speaker 4: to get him one on one with a d N

431
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:30,920
Speaker 4: or somebody who was coming on the other side, and

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Speaker 4: he was really up to the challenge there. They use

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Speaker 4: him a lot as a receiver, sometimes out of that

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00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,800
Speaker 4: backfield formation to give him those yards after catch chances.

435
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,560
Speaker 4: They'll use him up to see m They'll use them

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Speaker 4: over the middle as well, trying to hit those soft zones.

437
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:44,720
Speaker 4: And I just felt like this was a dude who

438
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,040
Speaker 4: showed a lot of really nice all around athleticism. Like

439
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,360
Speaker 4: he's not somebody that blew you away in maybe one

440
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,080
Speaker 4: major category, although I think the change direction is really

441
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,400
Speaker 4: nice with him. But he was just somebody who, again

442
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,440
Speaker 4: we're talking about probably an early day three player who

443
00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,720
Speaker 4: I think would be a really nice, versatile tight end

444
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:03,840
Speaker 4: two for a team. Like he's somebody again who if

445
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:05,879
Speaker 4: you want to go heavy personnel, he's somebody who can

446
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:07,600
Speaker 4: sit off the line of scrimmage. In that regard, he

447
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,800
Speaker 4: can sit in the slot as well. You could probably

448
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,560
Speaker 4: train in and play a little full full back with

449
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,359
Speaker 4: you as well on goal line situations and really confuse

450
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:15,840
Speaker 4: the defense and who.

451
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,040
Speaker 3: They want to have him guard and all that.

452
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,240
Speaker 4: So he's not somebody who's gonna blow you away. It's

453
00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,040
Speaker 4: probably why he's going to be a Day three player.

454
00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,280
Speaker 4: But I was really encouraged by his most productive year

455
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,639
Speaker 4: this past year. I also read a story that after

456
00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,119
Speaker 4: hours this past year or maybe maybe was in spring

457
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,080
Speaker 4: and summertime, him and his wife would jump the fence

458
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:39,080
Speaker 4: to the Colorado State practice facility, turn on the jugs machine,

459
00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,919
Speaker 4: and he'd catch balls outside. So this man's trespassing to

460
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,159
Speaker 4: get better at the game of football. We love that

461
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,960
Speaker 4: about it. You know, you don't want to take you

462
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,360
Speaker 4: don't want to take the illegal activity too far, but hey,

463
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,680
Speaker 4: you know that's something that obviously shows that he wants

464
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:55,600
Speaker 4: to be great and he wants to put in that work.

465
00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,240
Speaker 4: And like you talked about with guys who have that

466
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,879
Speaker 4: competitive toughness, that edge to them, like that's something that

467
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:02,160
Speaker 4: you want to gravitate towards too.

468
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,320
Speaker 1: He's the guy that I enjoyed watching, but I always

469
00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:05,879
Speaker 1: kind of wondered, like, what is his role at the

470
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,320
Speaker 1: next level? You know what I mean, like because he

471
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,359
Speaker 1: basically plays at Colorado State like a slot wide receiver,

472
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,280
Speaker 1: but he doesn't run like that, you know, has changing

473
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,760
Speaker 1: the direction stuff. His metrics in terms of the three

474
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,520
Speaker 1: cone the eldro were great, and that's awesome because you

475
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,439
Speaker 1: look at guys like Jason Witten, that's where they excel.

476
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,360
Speaker 1: But it's a little bit unusual in terms of projecting him,

477
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,080
Speaker 1: kind of saying, Oh, he's a guy that basically played

478
00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,240
Speaker 1: receiver the second half to play like a full back

479
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:28,560
Speaker 1: kind of highbrid type of role.

480
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:29,720
Speaker 2: But I do like what he does.

481
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,119
Speaker 1: He catches the football well, obviously he's the guy that

482
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,160
Speaker 1: kind of did that double catch in the gauntlet drill

483
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,800
Speaker 1: during the combine, So he's got some skills.

484
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,399
Speaker 2: It's just about again finding a use usage pattern for

485
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:39,760
Speaker 2: this guy.

486
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,360
Speaker 1: I also went on the offensive side of the ball

487
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,480
Speaker 1: from my third sleeper, Ryan florinoy wide receiver from Missouri

488
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,399
Speaker 1: State or West is it Eastern?

489
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,000
Speaker 2: Is it Eastern Missouri? Western Missouri, a directional.

490
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,280
Speaker 3: Missouri South Southeast Missouri State.

491
00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,080
Speaker 1: Directional Missouri, And he's a guy that has just really

492
00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,680
Speaker 1: impressed me through this whole process. He's you know, he's

493
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,080
Speaker 1: a little bit bigger than I thought. He's like six

494
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,919
Speaker 1: to one about tow hundreds, but he ran well, ran

495
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:03,679
Speaker 1: a four to four at the Combine. He is the

496
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,720
Speaker 1: offense at Missouri State, and he's a guy that at

497
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,200
Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl did the special team stuff, ran competitive routes,

498
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,960
Speaker 1: was physical in the run game, and all of those

499
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,400
Speaker 1: boxes you mentioned competitive toughness, just checking boxes that tell

500
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:18,800
Speaker 1: me that this guy loves football.

501
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 2: He's passionate about.

502
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,960
Speaker 1: Football, and he has some athletic upside to find a

503
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:23,840
Speaker 1: role at the next level.

504
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,479
Speaker 4: He's extremely intriguing because you mentioned like the testing at

505
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,199
Speaker 4: the Combine, really fantastic testing, and when I saw him

506
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,320
Speaker 4: on tape, I saw some of that, but I saw

507
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 4: it more as like build up speed and like build

508
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 4: up athleticism, where especially going up against that lower level competition,

509
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,399
Speaker 4: I wanted to see more twitch from him, Like I

510
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,560
Speaker 4: wanted to see him like boom, like get out of

511
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,080
Speaker 4: your stands, boom, flip the hips, like get up field,

512
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,679
Speaker 4: put that foot in the ground, and like he could

513
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,360
Speaker 4: do some of that, but it just wasn't as twitchy

514
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,840
Speaker 4: as I wanted to see it on tape. Then yeah,

515
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:00,879
Speaker 4: you go back and you watch the com you go, man,

516
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,879
Speaker 4: this guy killed it when it comes to the explosive traits.

517
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,359
Speaker 4: So you just sit here and you wonder, like, is

518
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 4: there more left in the tank? Is this somebody who

519
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,760
Speaker 4: because I think he played at Central Missouri, then he

520
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,800
Speaker 4: played at community College, then he played at Southeast Missouri State,

521
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 4: So it's like he's he's kind of been a journeyman

522
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 4: throughout a very lower level of college football, but here

523
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,040
Speaker 4: he is getting a combined invite. The NFL clearly has

524
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 4: their eye on him. So he's going to be a

525
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,880
Speaker 4: Day three pick somewhere and some team's going to give

526
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,560
Speaker 4: him a chance to really continue to improve. But he's

527
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,440
Speaker 4: that's that's ultimately Wily. When I watched him, it's like, man,

528
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 4: I could see it a little bit, but I want

529
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,800
Speaker 4: to see more of that explosiveness in those short areas,

530
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 4: and I think if he can do that, I think

531
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,680
Speaker 4: that there's plenty of room for receivers to come out

532
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:46,679
Speaker 4: of nowhere in this league, as we saw with a

533
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 4: guy like Puvinakoula last year.

534
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

535
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,840
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And Trevor, thank you so much for joining us

536
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 1: and like this is great insight and you can get

537
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,120
Speaker 1: insight like this on your show, The NFL Sock Exchange.

538
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 1: How many how many episodes you guys do a week?

539
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 1: A bunch?

540
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 2: I feel like you're always in my.

541
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 3: Feet to week do we do two a week?

542
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 4: But we try to We try to like fire off

543
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,920
Speaker 4: the take so the YouTube shorts and everything as well.

544
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 4: So if anybody's watching this on YouTube, come subscribe.

545
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 3: You'll get plenty of content.

546
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's they're all four hours each, so you

547
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,439
Speaker 1: get as much draft content as you want. No, but

548
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,160
Speaker 1: we really appreciate having you on Trevor and you always

549
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 1: do a great job man, And thanks for being such

550
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 1: a consistent guest on the show man.

551
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:22,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate it, brother, anytime.

552
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 1: All right, I'm going Bud and the Pro Football Focused

553
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 1: Takeover continues with the Sexy Six with Sam Monson, co

554
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,920
Speaker 1: host of the PFF NFL podcast. Sam, thanks so much

555
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 1: for joining us. How you doing, Bud?

556
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:35,880
Speaker 5: Doing good? How about you?

557
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 1: I'm awesome, man. I'm excited to talk about some quarterbacks.

558
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 1: I don't if you know Washington's picking the two. I'm

559
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 1: sure you knew that. And we are probably gonna be

560
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 1: taking a quarterback in this draft, So if we figured

561
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 1: to have you on the talk quarterbacks, and I think

562
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,719
Speaker 1: obviously Caleb Williams kind of the bell of the ball,

563
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 1: kind of feels like he's going to be going to Chicago.

564
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 1: Of the remaining guys, who do you think is the

565
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 1: best best fit for Washington or maybe guy you like

566
00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 1: most there at two?

567
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I think that is the right dynamic. You know,

568
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 6: we started off this process and a lot of people

569
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 6: had sort of Caleb Williams versus Drake May as which

570
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,679
Speaker 6: guy was going to go number one overall, and it

571
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 6: seemed like those two were ahead of everybody else. And

572
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 6: then the further it's gone on, the more it's like

573
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 6: it's Caleb Williams number one, and that's when the gap

574
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 6: happens to the next guys. And I think the more

575
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 6: you look into it, I think the other guys all

576
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 6: have flaws or something to scare you about them a

577
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 6: little bit.

578
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 5: But I think that it's.

579
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 6: Almost like we tried to overcorrect with Drake May and

580
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 6: now we're sort of pointing out all the flaws and

581
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,679
Speaker 6: the weaknesses and what's to be scared about him. But

582
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 6: ultimately the things that he has that our strengths are

583
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 6: too like, too tantalizing to turn down. I think Drake

584
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 6: May should be quarterback two. He's got incredible NFL tools.

585
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 6: He works the middle of the field, I think better

586
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 6: than any of these other quarterbacks. And that's still maybe

587
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 6: the single biggest differentiator between the college game and the

588
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 6: NFL game is needing to work the middle of the

589
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,880
Speaker 6: field and be comfortable with those types of reids. So

590
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 6: it might not be amazing right out of the gate,

591
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 6: but I think Drake May is the guy you want

592
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 6: at number two.

593
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

594
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 1: So one thing that people always say, at least when

595
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 1: I watch the film with him, there's a little bit

596
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: of there's a level of inconsistency to his game that

597
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 1: I find alarming. Right, there's the footwork, there's the arm mechanics,

598
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: there's the consistency of reading defenses. And so, you know,

599
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 1: one of my co co hosts on a different show

600
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 1: mentioned that, you know, he reminds him of Aaron Rodgers

601
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: come out of college, right, kind of this guy who's very,

602
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,199
Speaker 1: very talented, got a lot of tools that fit the

603
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 1: NFL game. But Aaron Rodgers gets a city here, so

604
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: to me, taking you know, a guy that has some

605
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: questions about his game at two seems a little bit steep.

606
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: What would you say to an argument like that.

607
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 5: I think you're right.

608
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 6: I mean number one, I think you pointed to all

609
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 6: the same things, right, Like, the inconsistency is definitely what

610
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 6: scares you.

611
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 5: You watch Drake May.

612
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 6: With all those tools we talked about, with the size,

613
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 6: the athleticism, the arm, and some of the throws he

614
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 6: does make, and then he comes right back and misses

615
00:23:58,160 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 6: just a much easier throw, and you're like, you know,

616
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 6: come on, if you can make the first one, why

617
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 6: can't we make the next three? You know that you've

618
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 6: got that talent, why we this inconsistent with it? And

619
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 6: I think you're right that sitting him would probably be

620
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 6: a good thing for his development. But when you get

621
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 6: drafted number two overall, you very rarely get that opportunity,

622
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 6: and sometimes these guys just have to sink or swim

623
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 6: right away. And as long as you're not damaging him

624
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 6: with the playing time, it's probably not the worst thing

625
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 6: in the world. You know, if you're comfortable that playing

626
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 6: him and just letting him learn on the job is

627
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 6: a thing that you're capable of doing and comfortable doing

628
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,479
Speaker 6: as long as you're not, as long as you're convinced

629
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 6: that that isn't actually harming his development.

630
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 5: It's just the way he's going to have to deal

631
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 5: with it.

632
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 6: Right, You're not going to get the opportunity to sit

633
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 6: and learn for two or three years behind the last

634
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 6: guy the Hall of Famer before he finally leaves. You know,

635
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 6: most quarterbacks just don't get given that runway. So I

636
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 6: think Drake may would probably be best served to sit

637
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 6: for a period of time. But if he's drafted at

638
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 6: number two, he's drafted at number three, he's just not

639
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 6: going to get that opportunity.

640
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 1: And something you guys have talked about on the NFL

641
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: on the PFF NFL podcast is this idea that a

642
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: running quarterback automatically raises the floor of your of the offense.

643
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: And obviously Jane Daniels comes in with that tremendous ability

644
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 1: to run the football.

645
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 2: Do you think.

646
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,719
Speaker 1: Because of his release, because of his ability to run,

647
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: he's maybe better suited to survive that initial kind of

648
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 1: storm of being a rookie quarterback in the NFL. Or

649
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:28,719
Speaker 1: you mentioned some issues you have with his game, Can

650
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 1: you talk about.

651
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 2: That a little bit?

652
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 6: Yeah?

653
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 5: Probably not actually like number one.

654
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 6: I think Drake May is actually a lot more athletic

655
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 6: than people give him credit for. I think that's a

656
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 6: part of his game that you should be leaned on early.

657
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,479
Speaker 6: You know, the sort of Daniel Jones style of running.

658
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 6: You don't want to throw him into the teeth of

659
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 6: a defense, but you can definitely have running as part

660
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 6: of the design game around Drake May, certainly early in

661
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 6: his career. The problem with Jayden Daniels and obviously he's

662
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 6: a more athletic quarterback and is extremely athletic. He is, however,

663
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 6: for vaguely suicidal with the way he runs around, not

664
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 6: just not just like trying to you know, get big

665
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 6: plays rushing downfield, but like behind the line of scrimmage,

666
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 6: just has zero you know, self preservation instincts whatsoever. And

667
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 6: at some point when you're as as slight as he is,

668
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 6: like part of staying durable is protecting yourself, not just

669
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 6: you know, understanding what hits you need to take and

670
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 6: what you don't. And he doesn't seem to have that

671
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 6: like filter at all in his brain. He's just doing

672
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 6: what he can and sometimes he's getting absolutely lit up.

673
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 6: Like that's as much a concern in terms of long

674
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 6: term durability and surviving. You know the word that you

675
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 6: use in the NFL. You need to protect yourself better

676
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 6: than that. So he might be able to move the

677
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 6: chains a few more times than a guy like Drake May,

678
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 6: but at what cost.

679
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 5: You know, you're only ever.

680
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 6: One of those plays away from boom, he's out of

681
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 6: the game.

682
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 5: You're down to the backup, and who knows how long

683
00:26:58,680 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 5: he's out for.

684
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: Is there anything that he does do that impresses you

685
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: that says, oh, I like this element of his game,

686
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: like obviously the running of the athlete, but as a

687
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: passer or anything, Wow, I really appreciate this skill set

688
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: that he brings. And this is maybe an advantage over

689
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: what Drake May does.

690
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 6: I mean, he's he's got a great deep ball some

691
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 6: of his passes. Now, look part of it is look

692
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 6: at the receivers he's throwing to. Right, the league neighbors

693
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 6: was the top guy, Brian Thomas Junior. You know number

694
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 6: two is probably going in the first round as well,

695
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 6: consensus wide receiver four right now, even if I'm a

696
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,719
Speaker 6: little lower on him than most people, but he's an

697
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 6: amazing college deep threat. Right, So those guys were open

698
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 6: deep pretty much any time he wanted them. That's going

699
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 6: to help. But some of his deep passing was phenomenal.

700
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 6: The athleticism is really impressive, Like he's able to manufacture

701
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 6: a lot of throws and windows that aren't there to

702
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 6: other quarterbacks. It's just the kind of risk that he

703
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 6: attaches to it as well. He reminded me a lot

704
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 6: of kind of like a taller version of Tyrod Taylor.

705
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 6: And I think now, you know, we sort of think

706
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 6: almost as a negative because Taylor's now settled into this

707
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 6: backup quarterback role. But the guy started for a few

708
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 6: years in the NFL for Buffalo was a pretty good

709
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 6: quarterback when he was doing that. And again, similar thing.

710
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 6: Athleticism was obviously huge for him, but he had some

711
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 6: of the best deep passes you in the NFL. He

712
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 6: just didn't do it enough and that was part of

713
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 6: what was kind of holding him back as a starting option.

714
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's also like this thing with Jayden Daniels

715
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 1: where he is kind of negative play prone and I

716
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 1: know he doesn't turn the football over, but in terms

717
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: of you know, taking sacks and things like that. And

718
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: the thing that I've always heard is that you want

719
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: the quarterback to offset that with big time throws down

720
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: the field, and you see that a lot with Drake May,

721
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: but not quite to the same level with Jayden and Daniels.

722
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to follow up with you

723
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: on who was talent wide receiver in your evaluation process

724
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: when comparing Jayden Daniels and Drake May.

725
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 2: How does that factor in?

726
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: Do you weigh Drake May's film higher because he's throwing

727
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: to you know, a guy going to get drapped in

728
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: the third round, or do not really factor it in,

729
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: Like how does that work for you?

730
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 6: I think you have to factor it in, but it

731
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 6: has to be sort of as a like a context

732
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 6: piece to when you're watching the tape, right. I don't

733
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 6: think you can just apply a sort of factor to

734
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 6: it and say, you know, we're going to reduce this

735
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 6: by x amount or increase this by x amount. You

736
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 6: just have to bear in mind that when we're watching

737
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 6: Jayden Daniels tape, it doesn't just change the picture on

738
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 6: an individual throw, but it changes how he's going to

739
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 6: play the game. Knowing that he's got guys that are

740
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 6: wide open all the time, right, you are going to

741
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 6: attempt throws that another guy is not because he doesn't

742
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 6: have the receivers that are two yards of separation at

743
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 6: the point where he makes that read. So I think

744
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 6: you just need to be consciously aware all the time

745
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 6: that you're dealing with a guy that has a sort

746
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 6: of an advantage over some of these other quarterbacks because

747
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 6: of the receivers he's throwing to. So it's going to

748
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 6: change exactly how he behaves, what passes he attempts, it's

749
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 6: going to change the actual margin for error he has

750
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 6: some of these throws as well. So I don't think

751
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 6: that there's, you know, an official rule for it. It's

752
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 6: just something that you need to be conscious of when

753
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 6: you're watching the tape.

754
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So I don't want to put words in your mouth,

755
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: but it sounds like it's Caleb Williams for you, Drake

756
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: May than Jade and Daniels. How big of a space

757
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: in between the last two? Are we talking? And is there?

758
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: Is it more like definitive tiers like they're in their

759
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: own tier and then Jade and Daniels and JJ McArthur

760
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: are in the same tier, Like how does that break

761
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: down for you?

762
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think that Drake May is the

763
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 6: clear number two, But it is pretty close. I don't

764
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 6: think there's a massive gap between those guys. I think

765
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 6: I'm just more comfortable with the kind of weaknesses or

766
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 6: the flaws, the red flags or whatever you want to

767
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 6: tournament for Drake May than I am with the other guys.

768
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 6: But I think, you know, Daniel's tools are extremely enticing

769
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 6: as well.

770
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 5: I think he's right there.

771
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 6: JJ McCarthy is the one guy where it's funny most

772
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 6: people sort of however, you want to turn this in

773
00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 6: the draft community, right, just us guys watching tape NFL buildings,

774
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 6: like most of us look at JJ McCarthy and you're like,

775
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 6: all right, there's some things to work with, but nobody

776
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 6: is talking about him as like a top five prospect.

777
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 6: And yet the NFL does seem to be an awful

778
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 6: lot higher on JJ McCarthy than the public is, you know.

779
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 6: And Tom Pellisero just had a thing today saying everyone

780
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 6: he's talking to at the owners meetings, asking them what

781
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 6: Washington's going to do, they're saying McCarthy at number two,

782
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 6: not Drake May or Jayden Daniels or and that's, you know,

783
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 6: that's a wild departure from the sort of the rest

784
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 6: of us watching his tape, and it does feel like

785
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 6: JJ McCarthy, for whatever reason, is significantly higher thought of

786
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 6: within NFL buildings than he is outside of NFL buildings.

787
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

788
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: Well, I think the interesting thing about JJ is like

789
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: when you watch his film, when you watch his third

790
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: down reel, when you are watching the concepts that he's running,

791
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: it's I don't say it's one to one, but it's

792
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: much much closer than the other three guys we just discussed, right.

793
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: You see kind of the timing, you see the mesh concepts,

794
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: you see the anticipatory throws, and so instead of having

795
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: to watch you know, you know one hundred plays of

796
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: quarterback X and you know fifty percent of them are screens,

797
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: twenty five percent quick game. It's like you're getting such

798
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: a high volume of these NFL style throws, and I

799
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: think it makes the kind of one to one comparison

800
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: a little bit simpler. Would you agree with that or

801
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:19,959
Speaker 1: do you think that's overreaching?

802
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 4: No?

803
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 5: I think that's probably true.

804
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 6: And it also he also has the added benefit that

805
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 6: he only attempted like one hundred passes in the second

806
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 6: half of the season, so you can get through his

807
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 6: reel really quickly. I'm sure that helps him along as well.

808
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 6: You know, NFL teams can just fire through that film

809
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 6: of JJ McCarthy and a fraction of the time it

810
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 6: takes you to watch everyone else's. No, I think there's

811
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 6: something to that. NFL teams have always loved, no like

812
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 6: being able to just look at a guy in a

813
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 6: quote unquote pro style offense, right because they don't have

814
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 6: to do the projection. They don't have to figure out

815
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 6: how this translates, you know, to their system or to

816
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 6: a more conventional NFL offense. They just see it like,

817
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 6: this is what he's being asked to do. So it's

818
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 6: a lot easier of an evaluation. So I think there's

819
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 6: definitely something to that. It's just that, you know, you

820
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 6: had the kind of confounding factors for Jay and Daniels

821
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 6: and the receivers and all those things. You have a

822
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 6: completely different set of confounding factors at Michigan.

823
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 5: You've got, you know, this is a.

824
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 6: Team that was dominating everybody running the ball. They didn't

825
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 6: need JJ McCarthy to be that guy almost ever, so

826
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 6: that the list of things they asked him to do

827
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 6: was just a lot lower than some of these other

828
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 6: guys where they needed the quarterback to put the team

829
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 6: on their shoulders.

830
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I mentioned JJ McCarthy there as kind

831
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: of like the de facto for But is he your four,

832
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: because I mean there's you know, Bo Nicks is pretty

833
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: good football player, so is Michael Penick Junior? Like what

834
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: is your list like one to five, one to six?

835
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: Then how would you tear them?

836
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 6: I think that Michael Pennix Junior is the one guy

837
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 6: that's kind of being slept on a little bit in

838
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 6: this process. I feel like he deserves to be in

839
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 6: the conversation as QB four. McCarthy's there as well. I

840
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 6: think Bo would be a step behind those guys in

841
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 6: my opinion. But we said this a while ago. If

842
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 6: you simply removed the national title game, right, if you

843
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 6: just pretend if it never happened, Texas came back at

844
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 6: the end of the semifinal and got that win, right

845
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 6: and always, the last thing we had seen from Michael

846
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 6: Pennix Junior was the semifinal game where he was absolutely

847
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 6: lights out against Texas crushed it. His draft stock, in

848
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 6: my opinion, would be a full round higher than it

849
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 6: sounds like it is right now, which is he's being

850
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 6: talked about as this mid second round pick, or the

851
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 6: guy you come back for in the second round if

852
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,479
Speaker 6: you didn't get a quarterback, you know, in the top ten,

853
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 6: or if you're Denver or Minnesota or the Raiders and

854
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 6: you didn't like taking a guy ten, eleven, twelve or

855
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 6: whatever it is. Michael Penis is the guy you come

856
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 6: back for in the second round. If he hadn't played

857
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 6: that final game against this Michigan team that was so

858
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,399
Speaker 6: good and so dominant, destroying everybody, I think he would

859
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,479
Speaker 6: be talked about a round higher. We would be talking

860
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 6: about him as that eleven, twelve, thirteen pick range guy.

861
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 5: He would be QB four. And then we saw it

862
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 5: was like the c. J.

863
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,439
Speaker 6: Stroud Georgia game, but in reverse, right, like the last

864
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 6: thing we saw from him was the most important thing

865
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 6: that everybody's weighing, and almost everything else is getting thrown

866
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 6: out of the window.

867
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 5: But he's got legitimate NFL tools.

868
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 6: The medicals are a thing for him, but they're not

869
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 6: He's had multiple knee tears, but they're not sort of degenerative. Right,

870
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 6: We're not looking at this guy and saying he's got

871
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 6: a chronic knee problem. He's only going to last, you know,

872
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 6: five years in the NFL. We're just looking at a

873
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 6: guy that's had multiple ACL tears in his career, which

874
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 6: is concerning in and of itself, but not necessarily something

875
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 6: that's going to be a problem going forward. I mean,

876
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 6: plenty of good NFL players have torn their ACL multiple

877
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 6: times and carried on having a great career. So I

878
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 6: think that Michael Pennix Junior, because of that final game

879
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 6: and the fact that it was on the biggest stage

880
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 6: and his team just got overwhelmed, and he's being kind

881
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 6: of unfairly criticized for that, He's the guy that's carrying

882
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 6: the can for that entire performance by washing.

883
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting.

884
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: So so you have Caleb Williams, Drake May, Jade and Daniels,

885
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: Michael Pennock Junior, JJ McCarthy. Is that kind of how

886
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 1: you got there? And then bo Nix is the last

887
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: guy in that order? Is that a fair Yeah?

888
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 6: I think so I could be convinced that McCarthy goes

889
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 6: above Michael PENNOCKX Junior, But those guys are four three

890
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 6: or four and five.

891
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 5: To me.

892
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, there we go. Okay, So obviously.

893
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: There's a lot of scuttle butt around Washington at two

894
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: potentially trading back if they are trading back to let's

895
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: say eleven with Minnesota. Is there a guy that you

896
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: think is really good value in that spot?

897
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 2: Are you or do you have a thought on that.

898
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 6: I think if you're taking a quarterback, you stay at

899
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 6: two and make the pick. I think if you're trading down,

900
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 6: it's because either you're not interested in a quarterback at

901
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 6: all this year, or you think that there is value

902
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 6: in that second or third round. Spencer Rattler right now

903
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 6: South Carolina is everybody's favorite kind of mid round prospect

904
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 6: and kind of the only guy that anybody is really

905
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 6: talking about outside of the first round or two as

906
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 6: having act will start a potential. You know, the rest

907
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 6: of them are all just saw here's a guy you

908
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 6: could grab in the mid rounds, but like, don't back

909
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 6: up and becoming anything. Spencer Rattler is the one guy

910
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 6: that everyone's sort of saying he has starter tools, Like

911
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 6: his college career has been a little bit rocky, he's

912
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 6: had to sort of reinvent himself, but he has the

913
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 6: tool set needed to be an NFL quarterback. So unless

914
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 6: Washington is absolutely in love with somebody like that, I

915
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 6: would say you pick it, you stay at two, You

916
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 6: pick whoever you think that probably the second best quarterback

917
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 6: is in the draft, and that's your best chance of

918
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 6: hitting on a guy if you trade back.

919
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 5: I mean Minnesota, Denver, the.

920
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,919
Speaker 6: Raiders, those three teams in sort of consecutive order. There,

921
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 6: they're in a horrible place because if they're picking at

922
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 6: that spot, they're probably drafting the fourth quarterback off the

923
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 6: board maybe. And if you're if you don't you know,

924
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 6: anytime you're picking the fourth best guy available, or at least

925
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 6: the fourth quarterback available, the chances of you thinking that

926
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 6: guy is the best guy or the one of the

927
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 6: top players in this class, it's probably not great. So

928
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 6: it's one thing to be stuck in that position, right

929
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 6: Minnesota lost Kirk Cousins, Denver got rid of Russell Wilson.

930
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 6: The Raiders, you know, just don't have a quarterback. It's

931
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 6: one thing to just be stuck there and try to

932
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 6: make the best of it. It's another thing entirely to

933
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 6: like volunteer to put yourself in that position by trading

934
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 6: back out of a better spot.

935
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's great analysis. The thing that I love.

936
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: One of the things I love about the pff NFL

937
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: podcast is you guys do your position rankings every year,

938
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 1: and I really look forward to yours in particular because

939
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: you tend to just kind of throw caution in the

940
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: wind and say I'm going to do what I want

941
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: to do. So I would like to talk to you

942
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: a little bit about your receiver rankings. And because we were

943
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: talking about South Carolina there, why don't we talk about

944
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: xavierly Get and then obviously Brian Thomas Junior as well,

945
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: because he's kind of everybody's consensus number four guy. And

946
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,240
Speaker 1: I think you had him on your show. I don't remember,

947
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: so I don't want to mismistate this, but it was

948
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 1: like in the teens or something like that, you were

949
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: not very high in them. So yeah, I love that.

950
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,839
Speaker 1: We're just bucking trends. We're not listening anybody. We said

951
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: our own course. Let's talk about.

952
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 5: That, okay.

953
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 6: Well, so the first thing about this year's class number one,

954
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 6: it's an amazing group, right, This is one of the

955
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 6: best receiver classes I.

956
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 5: Can remember coming along. You've got the big.

957
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 6: Three, you know, Marvin Harrison Junior, Malik Neighbors, Roma Dunze,

958
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 6: any of those three guys, I think would be wide

959
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 6: receiver one in most draft classes, and all three of

960
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 6: them are in the same draft class and they're probably

961
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 6: all going to go top ten, then I think there

962
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 6: is a little bit of a gap. But then wide

963
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 6: receiver like four through fifteen, maybe even deeper than that,

964
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 6: are really close together. It sounds ridiculous, but I mean,

965
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 6: even if you look at the consensus board, you get

966
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 6: to this run of receivers where it's just wide receivers

967
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 6: like every other spot on the big board for like

968
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 6: twenty picks, it's ridiculous. So I am a lot lower

969
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 6: on Brian Thomas Junior than most people. He's as I said,

970
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,720
Speaker 6: I think he's the consensus wide receiver four right now,

971
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 6: when people are putting him in the middle of the

972
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 6: first round, you know, pick number twenty, that kind of area.

973
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 6: I think he's a lot lower than that. But I

974
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 6: don't think he's a bad player, Like you know, I

975
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 6: think that's just a sort of caveat to put there.

976
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 6: But he reminds me a lot of Marquez Valdez Scantling.

977
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 6: You know, he's a big bodied, fast, deep threat type

978
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 6: of receiver. I don't know that he has great hands

979
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 6: or ball skills relied a lot in college of just

980
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 6: exploiting defenses not being able to cover what LSU was

981
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 6: running on offense. Obviously had a really good quarterback throwing

982
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 6: in the ball as well, So sort of the flip

983
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 6: side of that Jayden Daniels conversation works for him as well.

984
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 6: But I also think that that Marquez Valas scantling role

985
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 6: is less valuable today than it would have been five

986
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 6: years ago. I think the way the NFL defenses are

987
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 6: changing are kind of minimizing the impact that that guy

988
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 6: can have unless he has more to it.

989
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like in terms of how they're changing, how they're changing,

990
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 1: the defenses are changing. You've said that before, and I

991
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 1: think this is a really good insight that you guys have.

992
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: I assume it's related to coverage structures, but one let

993
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: you take that and just kind of double click on that.

994
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, they're you know, the development of taking away explosive

995
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 6: plays has been the way the league has been going

996
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 6: the last few years. It's sort of the most obvious

997
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 6: example was the pivot to those two high coverage shells

998
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 6: against Kansas City, and you know, and the way that

999
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 6: they that teams tried to take away how devastating. Patrick

1000
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 6: Mahomes was, but it was happening everywhere else as well.

1001
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 6: The Brandon Staley vic Fangio tree of defense that started

1002
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 6: to spread throughout the NFL, that was the one that

1003
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 6: started to really take a sledgehammer to Russell Wilson's play

1004
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 6: as well. This was maybe the best deep ball thrower

1005
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 6: in the NFL. The rams under Brandon Staley caused him

1006
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 6: all kinds of problems. He just couldn't figure out where

1007
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,320
Speaker 6: to go with the ball because they were taking away

1008
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 6: those deep shots that he loves to make work. So

1009
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,479
Speaker 6: I think that's the way the league has been going

1010
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 6: for the last few years, trying to specifically take away

1011
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 6: explosive deep plays and force everything more underneath. And so

1012
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 6: a guy like Marquez Valles Gantling and if that's who

1013
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 6: you know, Brian Thomas is his role I think is

1014
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 6: just a lot less impactful in the NFL than it

1015
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 6: certainly was in college at LSU. So unless he can

1016
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,439
Speaker 6: show that he has more to his game, I think

1017
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 6: he's a lot more limited than people.

1018
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:13,919
Speaker 5: Are crediting him for.

1019
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 6: And then Xavier Leget is kind of interesting almost for

1020
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 6: a similar reason. Six foot one apparently not six foot three,

1021
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 6: but two hundred and twenty seven pounds and fast, like

1022
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 6: two hundred and twenty seven pounds and fast at that size,

1023
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 6: even if it's only six y' one. That is a

1024
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 6: big problem for a cornerback to have to deal with,

1025
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 6: particularly now the corners are getting smaller than ever. You know,

1026
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 6: these one hundred and eighty pound guys. I mean, those

1027
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 6: guys are giving up forty fifty pounds to a guy

1028
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 6: like Xavier Leaguett. That is not an easy thing to

1029
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 6: contend with. His He's got a weird profile because almost

1030
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 6: all of his production came just last season. But when

1031
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 6: you start diving into why that happened, I mean he's

1032
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 6: dealt with some some tough things in his life, lost parents,

1033
00:42:58,200 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 6: you know, obviously covid hits in the middle of his

1034
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 6: college career that kind of messes everything up, and really

1035
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 6: just had to work his way into the starting position,

1036
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 6: work his way into having more of a role in

1037
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 6: that offense. And I think he still got work to

1038
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 6: do to become a fully rounded wide receiver like Brian

1039
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 6: Thomas Junior does. But I think leget because of his

1040
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,240
Speaker 6: size and because he can be more of an underneath

1041
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 6: threat with some with a couple of things, you know, slants,

1042
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 6: all those kinds of things, like he can already do

1043
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 6: a few things that just make him such a problem

1044
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 6: for NFL defenses to deal with, and then you can

1045
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 6: figure out how how well rounded he can become after that.

1046
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting because, like you know, when you mentioned

1047
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: Brian Thomas Junior is like this vertical receiver, which I

1048
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 1: agree with. I also kind of characterize Leget in that

1049
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: same way, but you kind of talk about them with

1050
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 1: different levels of admiration. Why what about Laget's game do

1051
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: you kind of say this gives you confidence that this

1052
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,760
Speaker 1: is more transferable potentially to the NFL.

1053
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,879
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean part of it is just difference in perception, right,

1054
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 6: Like people had Brian Thomas Juniors contens as wide receiver four.

1055
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 6: They don't generally have xavierly Get ranked that high. And

1056
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 6: I think that's part of it, is like where you're

1057
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 6: coming from. So I do I don't think they're wildly

1058
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 6: different as prospects, but I do think that because Brian

1059
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 6: Thomas Junior is being talked up as this clear wide

1060
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 6: receiver four guy, my kind of response or my characterization

1061
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 6: of him tends to be more negative than Laguet, who

1062
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 6: is not being talked about in that way. But I

1063
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 6: also do think that that size makes a difference. You know,

1064
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 6: like Marquez Valles scant link and run past people. He

1065
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 6: can threaten you deep, but he's not a physically imposing receiver.

1066
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 6: Xavierly get high points the ball better than any receiver

1067
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 6: in this class, and even on things that are underneath

1068
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 6: that guy can go up in Moss defensive.

1069
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 5: Backs just Moss DB's Moss linebackers.

1070
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 6: Like when you watched him move at the combine and

1071
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 6: they're running all those drills and you know they're putting

1072
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 6: those balls up in the air just to see how

1073
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 6: they move. He acts that football differently than anybody else

1074
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,399
Speaker 6: in this class. It reminds me a lot of Drake

1075
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 6: London when he came out a couple of years ago. Now,

1076
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 6: I think London was better at it, because he's the

1077
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 6: best I can remember for years. But Laguet's in that

1078
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 6: same kind of area. He is so good at that

1079
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 6: and really going after that ball at its highest point.

1080
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 6: So I think he's got that on top of the

1081
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 6: speed thing, Like you can run in deep, you can

1082
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 6: scare anybody that way. You can beat DB's up with

1083
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 6: the line of scrimmage, and then if you put the

1084
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 6: ball into his general vicinity anywhere on the field, he's

1085
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 6: going to go and get it in a way that

1086
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 6: somebody like Brian Thomas Junior doesn't all the time.

1087
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1088
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And we took a little bit of a detour

1089
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: the end of the receivers, which is always fun to do.

1090
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: But I want to finish this off with you are

1091
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 1: Adam Peters for the commanders. You are picking it too,

1092
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 1: You're on the clock picking Drake May. Is that the

1093
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 1: vibe I'm getting from you?

1094
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1095
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 6: I think so. I think that's the safest thing they

1096
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 6: can do. You're taking a quarterback, you're taking what looks

1097
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 6: to be the best one available, and you're not trying

1098
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 6: to get too cute and trade back and get a

1099
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 6: ton of draft picks and trying to figure out who

1100
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 6: you're going with a quarterback at that point.

1101
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: All right, Well that's the Sexy six with Sam Monson

1102
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: and that was very sexy.

1103
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:08,879
Speaker 2: Sam.

1104
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for joining us, and we

1105
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 1: really appreciate your Obviously, the pff NFL podcast is where

1106
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: you guys do so much great content, and so if

1107
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 1: you guys like this kind of stuff. They do draft stuff,

1108
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: they do team building philosophy. They have everything on that show,

1109
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: so make sure you guys check it out. Sam, thanks

1110
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Hey Dan, thanks for having

1111
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: awesome Bud.

1112
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:29,959
Speaker 2: Thank you. Question