1 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Saber Prediction of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 2: I'm Annie and I'm Mon Bugle Bam, and today we 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 2: have an episode for you about Hoppin' John, Yes, which 4 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 2: I'm curious listeners if some of you don't know what 5 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 2: that is. Yeah, we living in Georgia, hear some about 6 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 2: it at the very least, certainly on our travels. We 7 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 2: have run into it. We did talk about it, I 8 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: believe in our round up episode of our Ashville trip. 9 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:47,919 Speaker 1: We did. And I actually searched out to see if 10 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: that was still on the menu of the place we 11 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: were eating. 12 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: Oh yes, it's not. Oh oh interesting, Okay, Yeah, I 13 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 2: just wanted to see how it compared to what I've 14 00:00:58,760 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 2: now learned. 15 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: But yes, I think I know the answer. But was 16 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: there any particular reason this was on your mind? Laura? 17 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: Yes, we just had a New Year dawn upon us, 18 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 2: and Hop and John is in some places a traditional 19 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 2: New Year's Day food. 20 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: So here we are, here we are. I'll say I 21 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: don't have a lot of experience with Hop and John, 22 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: and especially after doing this research, I don't have a 23 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: lot of experience with traditional Hop and John. But I've 24 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: spoken about before I do I hesitate to even say 25 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: similar these people yell at me, but I do something 26 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: that I would say is in a similar vein of 27 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: hop and john. 28 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, you have like a like a beans and greens 29 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 2: and corn bread kind of situation that you do on. 30 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: New Year's Day sometimes rice and cam or pork or something. 31 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that is not part of my like original 32 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 2: fan Like I don't remember any original family New Year's 33 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 2: Day food traditions aside from like whatever we felt like consuming. 34 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,119 Speaker 2: But you know, just like something nice maybe, but uh 35 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 2: but since I moved, like like since I've been in Atlanta, 36 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 2: I usually try to do the beans and greens and 37 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 2: cornbread thing in some combination. So yeah, it's it's also 38 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 2: just delicious, Like come on, man, like rice and beans 39 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 2: with some collars some like nice hot vinegary collars. Corn bread? 40 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 2: Huh why not every day? Not every day, but you know. 41 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: So many holiday meals though, I'm like, why am I 42 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: only having this once a year? 43 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 2: Right? 44 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: I feel like I could have it at least twice 45 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:54,119 Speaker 1: a year. 46 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, I ah man, And I really 47 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: doing all this, doing all this reading, I really do 48 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 2: want to track down some of the more traditional ingredients. 49 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: Also speaking of We did want to say here at 50 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 2: the top that this is one of the topics that 51 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 2: we haven't done earlier in our seven ish year Savor career, 52 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: is that we being a dish that is from the 53 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 2: American South, we really thought that it would be great 54 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 2: to go interview people who had more direct experience with 55 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: it before we just get on the mic and talk 56 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 2: about it. And since we don't really travel anymore, we couldn't. 57 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: Really do that. 58 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 2: But as with everything we cover, we have read many 59 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 2: things and we hope that we are coming at you 60 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 2: with correct information, if not with a ton of personal experience. 61 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: Yes, and in fact, when we were traveling, we had 62 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: a whole folder dedicated to South Carolina in specific for 63 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: this in this case where we were planning to talk 64 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: about some of the things involved in this. So yeah, 65 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: seek out those people who are in that area and 66 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: talking about it. But unfortunately we did not get The 67 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: pandemic really put a crimp in our plans. As they say, yeah, yeah, 68 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: but you can see our New Year's Traditions Food episode 69 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: for more Yeah. 70 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 2: Also vaguely related topics black eyed peas, bacon, Biriyanni payea. 71 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 2: Have we done a Collared's episode. I can't I can't remember. 72 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: I don't think so, I don't think so. Okay, yeah, 73 00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 2: corn bread, Sure, I don't know. 74 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: It's hard to say. So much has happened in these 75 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: seven years. It's hard to say. Which brings us to 76 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: our question, Sure, hop and John, what is it? 77 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 2: Well, hopin John has been made in many different ways, 78 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: but what you're basically looking at is a rice and 79 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: beans powllo dish, in which the rice and beans are 80 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 2: cooked together in a single pot using a meaty broth 81 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 2: which has probably been created using water, a smoked pork product, 82 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 2: and some seasonings like aromatic vegetables and herbs. Maybe. Traditionally, 83 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 2: the idea is that at the end of cooking, the 84 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 2: beans and rice should both be tender with like a 85 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 2: little bit of chew, and each grain and bean should 86 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 2: remain whole and separate, like shouldn't be mush, shouldn't be 87 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 2: too saucy. The type of rice and beans you choose 88 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 2: for this and the method of cooking both matter. Modernly, 89 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 2: it is known as a New Year's Day dish, served 90 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 2: alongside cooked greens and corn bread as symbols of wealth 91 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: and luck for the coming year. Though yeah, it's a nice, 92 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 2: like hearty one pot dish for any time. Really it's 93 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: savory and stick to your ribs and satisfying without being 94 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 2: too heavy. 95 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: It's like. 96 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 2: Eating it is like being in the dry, crackling heat 97 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 2: of a wood fire, like smoky and human in this 98 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 2: way that like resounds back through time. 99 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: M hm hm, yes, it is. Like it's very satisfying. 100 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: M it's very All those flavors melding together just feel 101 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: so filling. Yeah yeah, yeah, it's salty and delicious, and 102 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: the starch of the like beans and the greens or whatever, 103 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: like it just feels very. 104 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 2: Everything you need, everything you need, yeah, yeah, and Okay. 105 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 2: There is a lot to unpack here about the traditional 106 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 2: and modern interpretations of the dish, most of which we're 107 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: going to get into in the history section, because this 108 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 2: is a dish that started in the Gulla or perhaps 109 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 2: Gallagiechi communities in low country South Carolina and has moved 110 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 2: around the United States from there and is also based 111 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 2: in even older food traditions. But sort of briefly, all right, 112 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 2: the beans you're looking to use should stand up to 113 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: long cooking. The original was probably a variety called the 114 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 2: Sea Island red pea, which is a type of cowpee, 115 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,679 Speaker 2: which is a lagome grown for its seeds or beans 116 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 2: because they keep well when dried and are a good 117 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 2: source of protein see Island. Red peas are this particular 118 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 2: variety that are like deep gold to burgundy red to 119 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 2: purple black in color, and we'll have a purple to 120 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 2: black eye on the concave curve of the bean. The 121 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 2: variety is a separate episode. Modernly people have taken to 122 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: using a related variety of cowpee called black eyed peas, 123 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 2: which we've covered before, which are white to cream with 124 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: a purple to black eye. And we'll cook up a 125 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 2: little bit softer whatever you use. The beans are boiled 126 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 2: from dry, which lets them put off some of their 127 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 2: flavor and like stuff into the cooking liquid. The rice 128 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 2: that you're looking to use is something long grained and 129 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 2: non aromatic. The original was probably a variety called Carolina Gold, 130 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 2: which was developed in coastal South Carolina during the colonial era. 131 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 2: It's like chewy and nutty and a little bit sweet, 132 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 2: also a separate episode. These days, other non aromatic long 133 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 2: grain varieties may be used instead. The rice is going 134 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 2: to be added to the beans like briefly boiled and 135 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 2: then steamed until it's done. The broth that you're doing 136 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 2: this in okay, So yeah. The liquid in which you 137 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 2: cook your rice and beans was originally probably achieved by 138 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 2: taking water and cooking a salted and smoked ham product 139 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 2: like bacon in with the beans and the rice. These 140 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 2: days people might take a shortcut or like add extra 141 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 2: flavor by using a prepared broth, but lots of recipes 142 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 2: will call for just taking water and then like a 143 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 2: maybe a drier stew purposed ham product like a hamhowk 144 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 2: something like that. Alternatives like smoked turkey might be used. 145 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 2: Additional seasonings for the broth now often include alions like 146 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 2: onion or garlic, maybe some hot and or mild peppers, 147 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 2: other aromatic veg like celery and carrots, maybe some herbs 148 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 2: like bay, sage or ti and the whole concept here 149 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 2: was originally again probably to cook this down until the 150 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 2: beans and rice are both cooked through and all the 151 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 2: liquid has been absorbed while maintaining the integrity of the 152 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 2: rice and the beans, And the idea is generally that 153 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 2: this is a main dish and that you might have 154 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 2: like a side or a topping of other proteins or vegetables. 155 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 2: Four similar concepts. If you've never had this in particular, 156 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 2: you can look to the paluffs or palaos of like 157 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 2: the Spanish Mediterranean, all the way through Central and South Asia, 158 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 2: all the way down along like West Africa's rice region, 159 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: like everything from piea to biryani to jallaf rice. But 160 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 2: today there are i would say, extensions of Hop and 161 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 2: John that are made to taste or to suit whatever 162 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 2: ingredients people have on hand. I have seen stewier versions 163 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 2: that people like to break down the beans a little 164 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 2: bit in, or versions that are served with the greens 165 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 2: mixed in and a little bit of pot licker in there. 166 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 2: Pot licker being the liquid that results from cooking down 167 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 2: greens with probably another salted smoked meat product. I've seen 168 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 2: versions with tomato in it. I'm not going to tell 169 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 2: you how to cook your rice and beans. Okay, there 170 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 2: are certainly people who will tell you what Hop and 171 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:35,319 Speaker 2: John is and is not. 172 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: But I am not one of them. 173 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 2: I am as per the usual, raising my hands in 174 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 2: the universally defensive position and backing away slowly from the argument. 175 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: I do giving you the baselines. 176 00:11:52,480 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 2: I do not have a bean in this race. But yeah, 177 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 2: this has come to be a New Year's Day dish 178 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 2: in America, and certainly in America's south, like like South 179 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 2: Atlantic region and beyond that is kind of like more 180 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 2: generally reserved for special occasions of various kinds because it 181 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 2: does take some time and effort to do well. But 182 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 2: I don't know, man, Yeah, eat it on a Thursday, 183 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 2: you do you? 184 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: You do you? Yeah? Wow? What about the nutrition? 185 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 2: It depends on how you make it, perhaps obviously, but 186 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 2: rice and beans are pretty good for you, you know, 187 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 2: good punch of starch, good punch of protein, complete profile 188 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 2: of amino acids, you know. Yeah, Like eat a vegetable, 189 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 2: don't add too much smoked, salted whatever meat product unless 190 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 2: you want to treats her nice. And he like glared 191 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 2: at me a little bit when I said that. 192 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: I'm not entirely sure why that was a really involuntary reaction. 193 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 2: Don't tell me how much fake it? 194 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: Don't you do? 195 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 3: Well? 196 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: We don't have any numbers for you. 197 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 2: We don't. Well, all right, So one thing, this is 198 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 2: such a this is such like a like a homey 199 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 2: dish that I couldn't I couldn't find any numbers, but 200 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 2: but I did look up the Google trends for hop 201 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 2: and John, which is how how often people are looking 202 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 2: up the term on Google. And there is predictably a 203 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 2: huge spike every like late December, and specifically in the 204 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,199 Speaker 2: American coastal South. So there you go. 205 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 1: Makes sense. 206 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 2: It gets like increasingly less likely that people would search 207 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 2: for it the further away from this region that you get. Hmm. 208 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: I would really love listeners for you all. 209 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, please do please do. 210 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we do have a history that might explain 211 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 1: some of why that is. 212 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 2: Yes, yes we do. But first we've got a quick 213 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 2: break for a word from our sponsors. 214 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay 215 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: to start, shout out to Robert Moss's article the Historic 216 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: Problem with Hop and John over at Serious Eats for 217 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: being really helpful and putting this outline together. I also 218 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: really appreciated that all of this very informative information was 219 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: couched in the author's anger how Hop and John is 220 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: no longer good. 221 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 2: By which he means like the ingredients that made it 222 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 2: good are no longer widely available or widely used, and 223 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 2: that therefore every iteration of Hop and John that he's 224 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 2: had or tried to make personally has been kind of lackluster. 225 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: It was very fun because you would be reading it 226 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: it's so in depth, and then it would he would 227 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: remind you that this is why. Yeah, it's not good. 228 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: In this reason, it's great. I highly recommend it. Good article. 229 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: It is such a great like we need to talk 230 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: about carolina gold and all these other things. But yes, 231 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: big shout out okay. According to food historian and researcher 232 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: Karen Hess, hop and John is a bean palau created 233 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: by the African diaspora in the Carolina ricelands. To make 234 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: a Carolina palau, rice from the region was prewashed, simmered 235 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: in broth until it's mostly absorbed, and served with some 236 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: type of protein. Often the protein was something like chicken, shrimp, 237 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: or beans was cooked along with the rice. The tradition 238 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: of simmering the rice with beans in broth originated in Africa, 239 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: and regions of the Americas that had significant populations of 240 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: people from Africa created some version of this with what 241 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: they had. 242 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 2: Yeah think of like red beans and rice in Louisiana 243 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 2: or black beans and rice in Cuba. 244 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: Yes, And in South Carolina, the variety that developed was 245 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: hopin John, which was made with bacon, peas and rice 246 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: and espeas. 247 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 2: And beans a type of bean referred to as a pea. 248 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: Yes, so much confusion, okay. Enslaved West Africans were shipped 249 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: to the Carolinas because of their knowledge of how to 250 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: grow rice. The rice and peas of what is now 251 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: that region originated in Africa too, and they were brought 252 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: over by traders through the slave trade and planted in 253 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 1: that region. 254 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 2: And this diaspora of peoples in this specific region of 255 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 2: the Carolinas formed the Gulla culture in what would become 256 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 2: the United States. There were varieties of rice and rice 257 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 2: type grains in the Americas before European colonization brought these 258 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 2: peoples and these agricultural products over, but rice like really 259 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 2: took off after colonization because these introduced varieties were really 260 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 2: popular colonial crops, as were various types of beans. And 261 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 2: note here that like rice and beans planted in conjunction 262 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 2: and or in rotation with each other helped keep the 263 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 2: soil fit for planting because legomes helped fix nitrogen in 264 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 2: the soil which plants used to grow. And again see 265 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 2: above our nutrition section, eating them together is nutritious. It 266 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 2: provides you a complete profile of amino acids. So this 267 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 2: is like a very old and very smart way of 268 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 2: sustaining both the environment and yourself. And this is technology 269 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 2: that was brought over by what would become the galliculture 270 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 2: in the Carolinas. 271 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 1: Yes, so the original recipes of Hopin John called for 272 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 1: a pint each of rice and peas beans and a 273 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: pound of bacon. Early recipes called for red peas or 274 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 1: cow peas, which may or may not have been black 275 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: eyed peas. It's very confusing. 276 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 2: Again, cowpeas is a larger category that both these these 277 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 2: red colored black eyed peas and white colored black eyed 278 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,439 Speaker 2: peas are sub varieties of but right the terminology is 279 00:18:58,480 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 2: a little bit borked. 280 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: It's definitely pork. And we'll talk about that a little 281 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: bit more later, because, yeah, there are a lot of 282 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: difficulties when it comes to recreating this dish, as per 283 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: Moss's article and serious eats using our modern ingredients. Most 284 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: of us don't have easy access to Carolina gold rice. 285 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 1: The pork used as different, as is the process of 286 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: making the bacon. And it is very difficult to know 287 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: what sort of beans were traditionally used because there were 288 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: so many varieties and the terms used for them were 289 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: used interchangeably, so we mysteries, histories, podcast headaches. The first 290 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: known written recipe appeared in Sarah Rutledge's eighteen forty seven 291 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: work The Carolina Housewife. It called for everything to be 292 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: cooked in the same pot and use the traditional way 293 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: of rice in the region, which required steaming the rice 294 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: over low heat after the rice had been boiled and 295 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: excess water had been drained. This ensured that each grain 296 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:14,239 Speaker 1: of rice would be distinct. To be clear, though this 297 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 1: dish or something very similar to it, was being eaten 298 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: long before this by enslaved Africans in the region. It's 299 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: pretty telling because she was like a governor's daughter. She 300 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 1: was well off, and she was printing a recipe for this. 301 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: So after trying the dish at the eighteen ninety five 302 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: Atlanta Exposition, a housekeeper from the north wrote in the 303 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: Cleveland Leader quote, I tried to make the dish once, 304 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,360 Speaker 1: and it was squishy and messy and unlovely to look upon. 305 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 1: Then I the southern one. It was delightful. The grains 306 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: of rice and the peas stood apart together as it were. 307 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: The purplish peas colored the rice to their own hue, 308 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: and the whole was seasoned satisfactorily with savory bacon. I 309 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: mean that sounds good. Okay, about the name, I'm just 310 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: gonna say it. Nobody knows. 311 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 2: Nobody knows. 312 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: Nobody knows. If you've read a story about it, take 313 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: it with a grain of salt, because nobody knows. There 314 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: are several theories, some more legitimate than others, but no 315 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: one knows for sure. 316 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, because you're dealing with not just several different languages, 317 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 2: but like language groups from like African to Arabic to 318 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 2: European and so. Yeah, and a lot of folk etymology 319 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 2: is coming into it. Yeah, that's no one knows. 320 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: No one knows, no one knows. Another thing no one 321 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: knows is for sure. When the black eyed peas became 322 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: the standard bean for this dish, as we kind of 323 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: alluded to earlier, Adrian Miller theorized in his twenty thirteen 324 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 1: book Soul Food, The Surprising Story of an American Cuisine, 325 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: One Plate at a Time that maybe the traditional bean 326 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: may have been red peas. Black eyed peas were more available, however, 327 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: especially in the North, so when black people moved into 328 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: the Northern States during the Great Migration, they used the 329 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: available black eyed peas as a substitute for the unavailable 330 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: red peace. But again, well, don't know for sure. 331 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 2: No, it's sort of assumed that because the Gulla people 332 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 2: were growing these red peas alongside Carolina gold rice, that 333 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 2: was probably it. 334 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: But ah, we don't know. And like I said, the 335 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: names use the terms used for these beans. 336 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:07,199 Speaker 2: Peace. 337 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 1: It's a mess, it is, so we're not sure. The 338 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: Carolina rice industry pretty much went under nineteen eleven after 339 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: economic hardship and a hurricane. Basically it wasn't cost effective 340 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: to harvest rice there because mechanical harvesters could be used 341 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 1: because it kind of swamp just can't do it, and 342 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 1: previously depended upon enslaved labor was gone, so rice production 343 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: took off in other places. Soon even people in the 344 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 1: Carolinas were largely using rice from other regions which didn't 345 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: have the same flavor of Carolina gold rice or the 346 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: same nutrition, which is a whole other episode. But there's 347 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: like lalls and place about it. It's wild. 348 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's again it's complicated because since the harvesting process 349 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 2: was done by hand, it wasn't hold in the same 350 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 2: way that mechanical hollors do stuff. So you have more 351 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 2: of the whole grain left, so at. 352 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 1: Any rate, yes, oh, yes, Well. By the time the 353 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: twentieth century rolled around, Hopen John has secured its reputation 354 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: for being a food eaten on New Year's for luck 355 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: in the southern United States. Articles and advertisements out of 356 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: Charleston publications specifically in the early nineteen hundreds mentioned the 357 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: dish in connection with New Year's. Hop And John was 358 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: also served when President Taft visited Charleston in nineteen oh nine. Okay, 359 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: the reason why the dish is associated with New Years 360 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: is also a mystery. There are so many mysteries in 361 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: this episode. There are many many theories, however, you can 362 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: see our New Year's Food episode for more, but there's 363 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: like no evidence for any of them. 364 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 2: So yeah, basically it's like, oh, this was sort of 365 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 2: a special occasion food already and people attributed meanings to it. 366 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, essentially, that's my vibe. Yep. Okay. 367 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 2: Those Sea Island red peas were almost lost during the Depression, 368 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 2: as production of them basically stopped in the Sea Island area, 369 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 2: but they've since been kind of brought back. We have 370 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 2: them again today. Also, around this time, some gull of 371 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 2: people were immigrating to other parts of the US and 372 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 2: probably bringing this tradition with them. 373 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: Yes, and the dish was pretty well known throughout the country. 374 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 1: By the mid twentieth century. Recipes started to be published 375 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: in numerous cookbooks or appear in newspapers or magazines, especially 376 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: in relation to New Years during the Great Depression. Publications 377 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: touted the affordability and nutrition of hopin john as well. 378 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: Many of these recipes called for black eyed peas, since 379 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: they were available throughout the US, unlike maybe red peas. 380 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: Many of them also pivoted away from cooking the ingredients together, 381 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: instructing for the ingredients to be cooked separately, mostly because 382 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: most people didn't cook rice like people in the Carolinas 383 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 1: did at that time, and the rice itself was different. 384 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: But it did mean that a lot of flavor was lost, 385 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: and I did read a lot of salty articles about 386 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 1: like perhaps Northerners writing about a dish they had never 387 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 1: really had. But yes, I'm raising my hands as well 388 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: and backing away from that. To makeup for that lost flavor, 389 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: cook started adding things in and the result was a 390 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: wild West of hop and gen recipes, often with things 391 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: like hamhowks, spices, sometimes additional vegetables which don't seem wild, 392 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: but there are. 393 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 2: Some opinions opinions. 394 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 1: Indeed, indeed, in recent years there have been efforts to 395 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 1: revive historic food ways and foods, including carolina gold, rice 396 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: and heirloom beans. I think we should come back and 397 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,400 Speaker 1: revisit these topics. Absolutely, It's fascinating. 398 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 2: And very very deep, just way too much. 399 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 4: Deserving of its own episode. Oh yeah, but this was 400 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 4: definitely an episode that when Lauren suggested it, I made 401 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 4: an audible sound of concern. 402 00:27:54,600 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: So I hope we have done justice here, But please 403 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: let us know onions, yes, your recipes, any any thoughts. 404 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 2: You have, of course, of course, and also if you 405 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 2: grew up with a different beans and greens related or 406 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 2: rice and beans related dish that you would like to 407 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 2: tell us about, we would love to hear about it. 408 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: We absolutely, I recently have gotten into rice and beans 409 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: dishes like that's my thing right now? Oh yeah, send 410 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: it in, Yeah, yeah, yes, But I think that's what 411 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: we have to say about Hopping John for now. It is. 412 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 2: We do already have some listener mail for you, though, 413 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 2: and we are going to get into that as soon 414 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 2: as we get back from one more quick break for 415 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 2: a word from our. 416 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 5: Sponsors, and we're back. Thank you, soans, Yes, thank you, 417 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 5: and we're back with a listener. 418 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 3: Man, Happy New Year. Yeah yeah, yes, it is very cold. 419 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: I know a lot of you can relate right now. 420 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: Uh huh oh my uh. Christine wrote, I was just 421 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: listening to the listener Mail twenty one episode and I 422 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: had an idea for the Great Savor Feast. During COVID Lockdown, 423 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: those of us in the Society for Creative Anachronism missed 424 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: our physical gatherings, especially those of us that cooked. I'm 425 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: not sure where the ideas started, but an event that 426 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: became popular during lockdown was the virtual Feast. The idea 427 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: was that someone in the group would devise a menu 428 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: and post recipes online, and everyone who wanted to participate 429 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: would cook whatever dish they wanted from the menu are 430 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: something entirely different if they chose, then everyone would dress 431 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: in their best court gear and assemble on a zoom 432 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: call at a specified time and eat together. While not 433 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: as good as gathering together in person, virtual feast offer 434 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: one huge advantage. People who wouldn't normally be able to 435 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: attend a particular event could participate in the virtual Feast. 436 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: I put a menu together for our Baronies' main event 437 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: in October in twenty twenty one, and not only did 438 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: we have people from all over Australia signing in, we 439 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: had people from all over the known world. Would this 440 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: be something that would work for the Saverer Feast? Anyone 441 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: who wants to join in can contribute a recipe or 442 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: the very least nomination for this ess board. We could 443 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: even include our pets. 444 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 2: Oh oh, that sounds beautiful and bazardous. 445 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: This is so lovely. I'm so happy that this came together. 446 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean leave it to the Society 447 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 2: for Creative Anachronism, but absolutely. 448 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: A delightful Yes, gosh, that would be such a wonderful 449 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: and chaotic event. We did that. 450 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,479 Speaker 2: Also combining like everything we love about food with everything 451 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 2: we hate about chewing noises. I mean, you could use 452 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 2: clever muting of mics. 453 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's true. I have to say when we 454 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: first started doing and we're trying to figure this out now, listeners, 455 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: but when we first had to move our Dungeons and 456 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: Dragons game online, I felt like there was an element 457 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: of this to it. I think it kind of faded 458 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: away because we were all busy. Yeah, you know, we're like, 459 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: I just need to get get going. But there was 460 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: an element at first of let's make these these things 461 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: or these drinks. 462 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 2: Or you know, have you know, like a weird hat 463 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 2: party in the middle of it or whatever. 464 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: It was. Yeah, yeah, and it was really nice. Hopefully 465 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: we can figure that out in the new year. 466 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 2: Really think so, I think that we are capable human people. 467 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: I think so. I think I believe that we are. 468 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: But this is a very this sounds very lovely. 469 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and maybe it would work. Maybe it would 470 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 2: work for a saber feast, maybe. 471 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: It would or our long we haven't even really talked 472 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: about logistics, but if we did, like a savor dungeons 473 00:32:54,320 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: and dragons, one ship maybe, but something something to think about. 474 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: And I like the addition of pets. The nomination of 475 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: the cheese. Yeah, excellent things. 476 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 2: The nomination of the cheese yes, yes, very important, very official. 477 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 2: Anava wrote, I am new to your podcast. I'm alternating 478 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 2: between catching up on old episodes and listening to the 479 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 2: new ones. Needless to say, I have a lot of 480 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,479 Speaker 2: catching up to do. However, best I can tell, you 481 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 2: have never done an episode on Cultured Meats Being a 482 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 2: longtime vegetarian and a lab tech, I am fascinated by 483 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 2: this concept. In one of my searches to find a 484 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 2: place I can sample some cultured meat, I came across 485 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 2: this restaurant in Amsterdam called Bistro in Vitro. The way 486 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 2: it works is you make a reservation and place your 487 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 2: order ahead of time. Then you show up at your 488 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 2: appointed day and time and your cultured meats are ready 489 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 2: for you. Their menu has some crazy options such as 490 00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 2: Doto nuggets, homegrown charcouterie, and meat fruit. Unfortunately, this eatery 491 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 2: appears to be permanently closed, suggesting the science thus far 492 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 2: is cost prohibitive, hopefully not for long. An Israeli company 493 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 2: called Foresea Foods recently made the news for their lab 494 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 2: grown Unagi. This is being presented as a possible solution 495 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 2: to Japan's over phishing problem. To date, I have yet 496 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 2: to find a place to sample cultured meats. If you 497 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 2: have any connections in the biz that might have a 498 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 2: suggestion for me, please let me know. 499 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: We have no connections. 500 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 2: Oh, we are connectionless. Unfortunately, no we're not quite. But interestingly, 501 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 2: before so, the way that this whole listener mail Shenanigan's 502 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 2: works is that Annie is very kindly devoted to answering 503 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,839 Speaker 2: the listener email and to putting them into these outlines. 504 00:34:54,760 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 2: And usually I'm good at reading them before I sally 505 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 2: say them out loud on Mike, but today I was 506 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 2: not good at doing that, And so before I realized 507 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 2: that this message existed, I believe I had suggested to 508 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 2: Annie that lab grown meat or cultured meat should be 509 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 2: one of our next few episodes. 510 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: You absolutely did. Yeah, it's like, guess what, we just 511 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: got a request? 512 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 2: Oh fabulous. I know that that has been a request before, 513 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,359 Speaker 2: but no, we have not done an episode. I think 514 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 2: we might have briefly touched on it in. 515 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: Something Impossible Meat, I don't know, but we have not 516 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: done one specifically on that. But that is coming up. 517 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: And I love this context background that you've given us 518 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: be Stro and Vitro. 519 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 2: That's amazing. I'm so sad it didn't survive. And I mean, 520 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 2: and the basic answer is no, it is not cost 521 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 2: allowable to really do on any kind of scale. But 522 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,839 Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, we're gonna we're gonna look into it. 523 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: Report back, well, we are going to look into it. 524 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 2: Dodo Nuggets, I'm so confused about meat fruit. 525 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 1: I'm so confused. I love it. There's a lot of 526 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: questions this message brings up. Maybe we'll find the answers 527 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: when we're doing the research. 528 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 5: Beautiful. 529 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: Well. 530 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 2: Thank you Amsterdam for as always doing something completely bonkers. 531 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:37,240 Speaker 1: Thank you yes, and thanks to both of these listeners 532 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: for writing. If you would like to write to us, 533 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: you can our emails hello at saberpod dot com. 534 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 2: We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, 535 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 2: moving into blue Sky, Facebook and Instagram, where our handle 536 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 2: is at all places saber pod and we do hope 537 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 2: to hear from you. Saver is a production of iHeartRadio. 538 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit 539 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app podcasts or wherever you listen to your 540 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 2: favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan 541 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 2: Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and 542 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:09,799 Speaker 2: we hope that lots of more good things are coming 543 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:18,280 Speaker 2: your way.