WEBVTT - George Hahn

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<v Speaker 1>The Craig Ferguson Pants on Fire Tour is on sale now.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a new show, it's new material, but I'm afraid

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<v Speaker 1>it's still only me, Craig Ferguson on my own, standing

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<v Speaker 1>on a stage, telling comedy words. Come and see me,

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<v Speaker 1>buy tickets, bring your loved ones, or don't come and

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<v Speaker 1>see me. Don't buy tickets and don't bring your loved ones.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not your dad. You come or don't come, but

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<v Speaker 1>you should at least know what's happening, and it is.

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<v Speaker 1>The tour kicks off late September and goes through the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the year and beyond. Tickets are available at

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<v Speaker 1>the Craig Ferguson Show dot com slash tour. They are

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<v Speaker 1>available at the Craig Ferguson show dot com slash tour

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<v Speaker 1>or at your local outlet in your region. My name

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<v Speaker 1>is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy.

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<v Speaker 1>I talk to interest in people about what brings them happiness.

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<v Speaker 1>My guest today is a gentleman of extraordin in early

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<v Speaker 1>style and wit and grace and humor. He is a

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<v Speaker 1>very very clever with a very interesting take on life.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, he lives in New York City, and of

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<v Speaker 1>course he's originally from Cleveland, and of course he is

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<v Speaker 1>George Hahn.

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<v Speaker 2>George, congratulations. In all the time I've been doing this podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>which is not you're the first person who was early. Really, Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>that's because I'm eager and I'm eager and excited to

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<v Speaker 2>speak with you. Well, I think that's believable and also

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<v Speaker 2>the I think you're the only person I've ever had

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<v Speaker 2>on this only guests I've ever had on I think

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<v Speaker 2>anywhere where I don't know you except from social media.

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<v Speaker 1>I only know you from social media because I have

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<v Speaker 1>to make a confashion to you.

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<v Speaker 2>You were my lockdown internet boyfriend. It's one hundred percent true. God,

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<v Speaker 2>that's the hottest things and if anything, any event's ever

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<v Speaker 2>said to me in the last five years. So thank

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<v Speaker 2>you for that.

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<v Speaker 1>I was in Scotland during the Lockdown and you were

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<v Speaker 1>making these stylish, angry, passionate but also very cool little

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<v Speaker 1>videos in New York and I was like, fuck, I

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<v Speaker 1>wish I could get back to New York and live

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<v Speaker 1>in an apartment in the Upper West Side. But George,

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<v Speaker 1>we'd go to the opera, we'd go and see things,

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<v Speaker 1>we'd go see. I have this idea of you that

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<v Speaker 1>you are a complete Upper west Side stylish kind of sophisticate.

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<v Speaker 2>Tell me I'm wrong or tell me I'm right. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you something. It's strange that you bring that up.

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<v Speaker 2>I was thinking today that I am starting to sort

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<v Speaker 2>of become that person in the weirdest way that I

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<v Speaker 2>never was. Never on the itinerary. For example, I will

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<v Speaker 2>tell you as we record this tonight, I am going

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<v Speaker 2>to see no No, No. Let me rewind. Earlier this week,

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<v Speaker 2>I went to the opera. I went to the Metropolitan

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<v Speaker 2>Opera House and I saw a production of Tosca. I

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<v Speaker 2>never I hadn't been to the opera in maybe ten years.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's so funny that you're mentioning this now because

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<v Speaker 2>I just went back to the met for the first

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<v Speaker 2>time in a decade and it was glorious. My friend

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<v Speaker 2>is a sober buddy of mine, and he said, let's

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<v Speaker 2>go to the diner old School, and then we went

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<v Speaker 2>to the opera all dressed up and had this amazing,

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<v Speaker 2>fantastic night and I just felt so like nourished creatively.

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<v Speaker 2>And then tonight to see are you sitting down? You're

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<v Speaker 2>sitting down and you're wearing a tie and everything. Tonight,

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<v Speaker 2>I am going to Radio City Music Hall to see

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<v Speaker 2>none other than Barry Manilow. So you fucking bastard, treat

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<v Speaker 2>me the same, treat me the same.

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<v Speaker 1>I my god, I lost the first time I was

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<v Speaker 1>ever nominated for an Emmy or for anything, really, I

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<v Speaker 1>lost it to Barry Manelo or he won it. I

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<v Speaker 1>was in the same category as him for a moment though.

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<v Speaker 1>Apparently shows and Barry Man and Loew's we're lumped together.

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<v Speaker 2>At one point in the history of show business back

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<v Speaker 2>in the day.

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<v Speaker 1>Interesting, but he rightfully won the Best Bardie man A

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<v Speaker 1>Loo Award.

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<v Speaker 2>But here's the thing. I went to the opera last year.

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<v Speaker 1>I went to see Labo M at the met and

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<v Speaker 1>I have a problem with that opera a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>because that woman that says that she's got TB and

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<v Speaker 1>starts singing about having TV this, she doesn't look to

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<v Speaker 1>me like she's sick.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah she looks a little too good. Yeah she looks

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<v Speaker 2>pretty healthy, robust character. Right. Are you a fan of

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<v Speaker 2>the opera? I am cripperably a fan of the opera.

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<v Speaker 2>And what that means is that for years I was

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<v Speaker 2>making websites just to make a living, because it was

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<v Speaker 2>a skill I had in my pocket. And one of

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<v Speaker 2>my clients was a manager of opera artists. So I

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<v Speaker 2>got familiar with the names of them, the composers of them,

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<v Speaker 2>and got very familiar with, you know, what each of

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<v Speaker 2>them sounded like, because I was uploading in audio and

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<v Speaker 2>video samples of performances. So this guy represented yeah, directors

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<v Speaker 2>and singers and yeah. In fact, one of his clients

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<v Speaker 2>was Charles Nelson Riley. Oh, he was there the opera,

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<v Speaker 2>but he sort of was in a way. He was

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<v Speaker 2>a director. He directed production, did he really did? He

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<v Speaker 2>did that? He was when I was a young wanta

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<v Speaker 2>be actor in in the early days of New York City.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going back to ninety five, ninety six, ninety seven.

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<v Speaker 2>I was also a waitress at Joe Allen of course

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<v Speaker 2>Wow on West forty sixth Street Theater, still a favorite

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<v Speaker 2>personally anyway. And Charles Nilson Riley at the time was

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<v Speaker 2>directing a production of The Gin Game with Charles during

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<v Speaker 2>and Julie Harris and come in during runs of that show.

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<v Speaker 2>During the run of that show, come in and harass.

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<v Speaker 2>Like today, he would have been slapped so hard with

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<v Speaker 2>a lawsuit, like practically pinching us in the ass. And

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<v Speaker 2>as we would walk past the table, he would go

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<v Speaker 2>run Cinderella, Run, Cinderella, and I, you know, some of

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<v Speaker 2>the other kids had a problem with it. I thought

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<v Speaker 2>he was hilarious and I love Yeah. Yeah, it would

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<v Speaker 2>not be examtable today. No, it would absolutely not beat out.

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<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of a lot of people I

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<v Speaker 1>worked with back in the day in theater in London,

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<v Speaker 1>it would have been tricky for them.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, I think pretty pretty tricky enough of that. Let

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<v Speaker 2>me ask you this because as far as I can

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<v Speaker 2>glean from social media, which is the anyway I know you.

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<v Speaker 2>Although I think, and this is considered this podcast me

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<v Speaker 2>applying to be your friend. You're in all right, right,

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<v Speaker 2>so this is my application.

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<v Speaker 1>But I, as far as I've found out about your walking,

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<v Speaker 1>glean from your posts.

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<v Speaker 2>You're from Cleveland, right, correct? Yeah? So you're from Are

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<v Speaker 2>you from Shaker Heights to Cleveland. No, I'm on the

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<v Speaker 2>other side of the town. Shaker Heights is a western

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<v Speaker 2>or a rather east side suburb. I'm from a west

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<v Speaker 2>side suburb called Lakewood.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that is that posh? Because I thought Shaker Heights

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<v Speaker 1>is posh. Shaker Heights is posh, but Lakewood is not posh. No,

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<v Speaker 1>Lakewood was always working the middle class. There were some

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<v Speaker 1>Now Lakewood's got some posh pockets to it, but by

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<v Speaker 1>and large, if you took that whole zip code, it

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<v Speaker 1>would I would call it staunchly middle class. All right,

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<v Speaker 1>So you grew up. It's a very kind of uh.

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<v Speaker 1>Let you you tell me how it was. I I

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<v Speaker 1>think of you as probably being in a kind of Ossie.

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<v Speaker 2>And Harry environment. Is that right? Is it is? It

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<v Speaker 2>was a little more American go ethic? What was it?

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<v Speaker 2>I would say maybe a little bit of both. I

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<v Speaker 2>think my parents, looking back, were just sort of alarmingly normal.

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<v Speaker 2>There was no like in my upbringing, like in our

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<v Speaker 2>nuclear family. I'm the youngest of five. My mother was

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<v Speaker 2>married and widowed before and had four kids when she

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<v Speaker 2>met my dad. So my older siblings are technically half

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<v Speaker 2>and we had it pretty good. I say I would

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<v Speaker 2>say that we were We were I think were fairly

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<v Speaker 2>punished when we screwed up, and never physically, and we

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<v Speaker 2>were rewarded when we did things very well, and we

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<v Speaker 2>were loved and birthdays were like almost embarrassingly celebrated like

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<v Speaker 2>we had a pretty good I would say, so what

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<v Speaker 2>leads you? What led you in?

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<v Speaker 1>Because I feel like you're a theatery person, and that's

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<v Speaker 1>a very specific kind of kid.

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<v Speaker 2>Were you a theory kid? I was a performative kid.

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<v Speaker 2>I was never the first time I engaged in anything

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<v Speaker 2>theatrical with a stage and a script and a director

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<v Speaker 2>was in college. But the Hans themselves are funny. We

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<v Speaker 2>have like my dad was funny. You know. My cousin

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<v Speaker 2>Catherine Hahn, she's she's crazy. Catherine, she'sful, but she's nuts.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to the very nice Yeah, and she adores you

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<v Speaker 2>and I adore her. It's a love fest. We have

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<v Speaker 2>to get together and have a hug fest.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that maybe the Hans and the Fergusons should

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<v Speaker 1>maybe have a Thanksgiving together or something.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's a I am down for that. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>we we've moved back to New England though, so we're

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<v Speaker 2>American again. I think we can do that. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I was in Scotland for a while and I was like, no,

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<v Speaker 1>I was I think Proust, you know, I got about

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<v Speaker 1>richere she Mike Thomas Purdue, and I think, no, No,

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<v Speaker 1>you cannot go back.

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<v Speaker 2>I was just in your country not long ago. You

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<v Speaker 2>where have we done? I have a friend, my friend,

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<v Speaker 2>Scott Galloway, celebrated a birthday for himself a sixtieth. He

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<v Speaker 2>called it a fiftieth birthday in a beautiful old hotel

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<v Speaker 2>in Braemar. So for forty eight hours we were at

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<v Speaker 2>the Fife Arms Hotel. It was incredible. You know, then

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<v Speaker 2>whether Queen died I think in Braemar might be right.

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<v Speaker 2>We saw the King's king and his motor cane on

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<v Speaker 2>our way to the airport in the hotel house there. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>is it Baldey Castle, bow Moor. Yeah, I think he

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<v Speaker 2>literally drove past. I saw him in the backseat of

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<v Speaker 2>his car because they'd stopped a traffic because we were

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<v Speaker 2>en route to Aberdeen Airport and there was the King

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<v Speaker 2>And did you have a nice was that? Your first time?

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<v Speaker 2>Was going totally? And I thought I was so charmed

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<v Speaker 2>by it. Could I live there full time? No? I

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<v Speaker 2>like the sun, yeah, and I like a salad now

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<v Speaker 2>and then. But I love it beautiful, Oh my god, Craig,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like this, It's.

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<v Speaker 1>Like is beautiful. It is beauty. Yeah, it's like skyfall.

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<v Speaker 1>I actually when I love Skyfall as a movie. For me,

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<v Speaker 1>it's my favorite Bond movie and me both even including

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<v Speaker 1>the Conneries, which is it almost feels heretical to say that.

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<v Speaker 2>But it was the Bond movie that made me cry.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And also I felt I it's the first time

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<v Speaker 1>I really identified with James Wonder. And he's looking at

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<v Speaker 1>the bleak beauty of Skyfall and where he grew up

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<v Speaker 1>and he says, I hate this place.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, let's just torch this house. Let's torch this house.

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<v Speaker 2>No light coming in.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, But I didn't. I didn't come from the

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<v Speaker 1>kind of dramatic part of Scotland. I came from the

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<v Speaker 1>just the Cleveland of Scotland.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually, So how how did you get into are your family?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, Catherine is very sure, she's very theatrical and

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<v Speaker 1>very away went.

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<v Speaker 2>She was a local TV show and she did local theater.

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<v Speaker 2>I was always embarrassed the west side of Cleveland to compare,

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<v Speaker 2>because Katherine grew up on the East side of Cleveland.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, our dads were brothers. Her dad was Bill.

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<v Speaker 2>He just died this year on the same date my

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<v Speaker 2>father died thirty four years ago. But so they grew

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<v Speaker 2>up in the same house obviously, and then Bill went

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<v Speaker 2>to the east side. Ultimately, my dad stayed on the

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<v Speaker 2>west side. The east side, where Shaker Heights is Cleveland

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<v Speaker 2>Heights seemed to have a much more liberal minded and

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<v Speaker 2>it might have been the liberal intellectual Jewish community. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know what it was, but like the sort of

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<v Speaker 2>bohemian crowd was all away on the east side, particularly

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<v Speaker 2>in this neighborhood called Coventry. That's where the art house

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<v Speaker 2>movie theater was, That's where the museums were, That's where

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<v Speaker 2>the cool record shops were. That's where you could get

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<v Speaker 2>vintage clothes. The west side, where I came from, it

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<v Speaker 2>didn't have as much. It was a little more conservative,

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<v Speaker 2>a little more he not as expressive artistically, I would say,

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<v Speaker 2>and not as liberal. That's what I saw it.

0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:21.720
<v Speaker 1>You mentioned your father, and I saw a media post

0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:24.560
<v Speaker 1>or something you posted some time, agoys, it's rather moving

0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.800
<v Speaker 1>post about your father taking you to New York City?

0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:31.640
<v Speaker 2>Was that the first time that you went.

0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:35.720
<v Speaker 1>Was your father interested in in the theater?

0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:39.680
<v Speaker 2>Was he? Oh that's where that's where you got it from. Yeah,

0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.960
<v Speaker 2>he was an actor. I have an award of his

0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.840
<v Speaker 2>sitting on one of a chest in my room. He

0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.800
<v Speaker 2>was an actor in local actor. He won awards. I've

0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.199
<v Speaker 2>never won an award for acting. He went to Notre Dame.

0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:54.880
<v Speaker 2>He did theater there. He was in the theater with

0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:58.040
<v Speaker 2>Phil Donahue of all people, what mm hmm. They were

0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:04.439
<v Speaker 2>at Notre Dame around the same time. And then got

0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:08.720
<v Speaker 2>into He went into the Navy, did some performances in

0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:13.640
<v Speaker 2>the Navy. I think he wanted to go into acting professionally,

0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:18.280
<v Speaker 2>but I think his father, my grandfather, kind of talked

0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.200
<v Speaker 2>him out of it, you know, just in terms of, oh,

0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:23.760
<v Speaker 2>you're gonna just setting yourself up for failure kind of thing.

0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:27.600
<v Speaker 2>It's generational. And so my dad went into advertising and

0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:29.480
<v Speaker 2>marketing and he was good at it, and that's what

0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.120
<v Speaker 2>he ended up kind of doing. Did he look like

0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.680
<v Speaker 2>John Hammond mad Men? He was more interesting to say

0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:39.640
<v Speaker 2>that he wasn't the creative end. He was literally Pete Campbell,

0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:44.680
<v Speaker 2>not minus minus like he was an account executive. I

0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.360
<v Speaker 2>think he's title on his business card was something like

0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.880
<v Speaker 2>account executive. And that was my dad. So he was

0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:53.040
<v Speaker 2>not you know, when you when you had mad Men,

0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.680
<v Speaker 2>when those agencies were in two parts, it was a

0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:57.680
<v Speaker 2>creative in the business. My dad was kind of more

0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:06.560
<v Speaker 2>on the business side, but they did you know intercing.

0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:09.520
<v Speaker 1>What I pick up from your style is very kind

0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:13.160
<v Speaker 1>of like it's very classically like that, very kind of

0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:21.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, well cut suits and ties and good shoes, and.

0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:26.600
<v Speaker 2>I feel like I feel like there's alcohol in there

0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.400
<v Speaker 2>as well. Is that? Yeah? Is it?

0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:31.520
<v Speaker 1>But you're correct me if I'm wrong, or tell me

0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:32.960
<v Speaker 1>to show up from crossing the line.

0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.200
<v Speaker 2>But you're sober, right twenty two years? Wow?

0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:41.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well that's great. Runs in the family. Yeah, it's

0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:43.480
<v Speaker 1>a funny thing. So was that we're drinking when you

0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:44.600
<v Speaker 1>went to New York?

0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:49.080
<v Speaker 2>When I got here? Yeah, I moved here in ninety

0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:55.560
<v Speaker 2>four and I didn't get sober till two. Yeah.

0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that would be right. I get sober. I'm thirty

0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:03.960
<v Speaker 1>two years look at us. Yeah, but can I tell

0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:08.360
<v Speaker 1>you something? What when I you know, because I always

0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.680
<v Speaker 1>had this sort of act, this image of you know,

0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:16.120
<v Speaker 1>an aspiring actor, that sort of that Richard Burton ideal brooding,

0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:22.360
<v Speaker 1>a little messy and dark and chainsmoking and just terminally miserable, right,

0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:27.760
<v Speaker 1>always cloudy, always cloudy in my snow globe. And that

0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:29.920
<v Speaker 1>was sort of what you know, everybody wanted to sort

0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:31.960
<v Speaker 1>of be like that and look like al Pacino and

0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:35.600
<v Speaker 1>Carlito's way, like just very sort of angry, bitter out

0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:39.080
<v Speaker 1>of work. Anyway, I was fortunate enough to do an

0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:41.280
<v Speaker 1>episode of Sex in the City and then like after

0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.640
<v Speaker 1>that wrapped, there was a party and the showrunner, Michael

0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:46.720
<v Speaker 1>Patrick King was at this rap party as well.

0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm sitting at a table with him. I'm not sure

0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:53.120
<v Speaker 2>how or why, but they're passing around Martini's. The servers

0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:55.960
<v Speaker 2>are giving away martinis and Cosmopolitans, what have you. When

0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:58.040
<v Speaker 2>I am on antibiotics, I didn't give a shit. I

0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.800
<v Speaker 2>took another martini. I'm getting well on my getting smashed,

0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.119
<v Speaker 2>and Michael asked for a club soda and I said,

0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:05.920
<v Speaker 2>you're not drinking tonight and he said, oh, I don't

0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.560
<v Speaker 2>drink at all. I said, ever, he goes, I've never drunk,

0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:12.560
<v Speaker 2>And I thought this guy and I remember this clearly,

0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:15.160
<v Speaker 2>this guy, and this is two and a half years

0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:22.280
<v Speaker 2>before I ultimately got sober. He is highly functional, creatively, vibrant, successful,

0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:27.199
<v Speaker 2>happy in the mix of this business that I want

0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:28.960
<v Speaker 2>to be. I want to be in the mix like him.

0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:31.879
<v Speaker 2>And I thought, this guy who doesn't drink is on

0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:34.760
<v Speaker 2>to something and the not drinking thing is part of it.

0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:37.679
<v Speaker 2>And I remember a seed was planted. Even though I

0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:43.719
<v Speaker 2>had sober parents, I had like yeah, so the drinking

0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:46.159
<v Speaker 2>thing was very tricky for me for a long time.

0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:51.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that I very much believed the myth

0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:54.800
<v Speaker 1>of you know that the alcohol and you know, I

0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.520
<v Speaker 1>did cocaine, but only is a kind of vitamin to

0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:01.480
<v Speaker 1>drink more. It wasn't really like a proper cocaine addiction.

0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:05.800
<v Speaker 1>It was more kind of like a side hustle for

0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:10.960
<v Speaker 1>the main event. And I felt like the that's why

0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:12.919
<v Speaker 1>British people do so much cocaine, by the way, it's

0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:15.160
<v Speaker 1>because they like cocaine. It's just that they can drink

0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:18.119
<v Speaker 1>more while they're taking cocaine. That's that's what it is.

0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:21.240
<v Speaker 1>It's like, oh, yeah, let's do a little bump.

0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:23.880
<v Speaker 2>But it's not like it's not like doing a bump

0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:27.760
<v Speaker 2>in you know, in New York or in Los Angeles

0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.639
<v Speaker 2>or Miami. It's well, then go down the pap.

0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.320
<v Speaker 1>But that being said, I felt for the myth of

0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.720
<v Speaker 1>the drugs and the alcohol make you loosen, creative, and

0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:44.040
<v Speaker 1>it was it took me a while to figure out

0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:51.320
<v Speaker 1>the people who were creative and successful, and usually it

0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:55.359
<v Speaker 1>was some kind of torture genius. We're doing that despite

0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.439
<v Speaker 1>the drugs and alcohol, not because of it. It was

0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:02.040
<v Speaker 1>like their talent was so profound that it was it

0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:06.200
<v Speaker 1>was kind of cutting through because I really don't buy

0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:10.280
<v Speaker 1>that myth anymore. I really I think it's fucking horseshit.

0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:16.320
<v Speaker 1>The you know, Picasso is a great artist. Mcdigliani is

0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:21.879
<v Speaker 1>a great artist. Mcdiglianni dies in the street and is

0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:25.760
<v Speaker 1>I guess his thirties or forties. Picasto lives the ninety

0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:30.480
<v Speaker 1>and keeps, keeps doing things, and keeps, you know, keeps changing.

0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:36.399
<v Speaker 1>And I I wonder if young people now are still

0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:38.480
<v Speaker 1>buying into that. I feel like you might be a

0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:40.920
<v Speaker 1>bit more plugged into that world than may do you think?

0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.919
<v Speaker 2>So I get I missed a fun I can't remember

0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:48.720
<v Speaker 2>specifically what it was, but I remember years ago coming

0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:52.760
<v Speaker 2>across an ad for some kind of liquor. Whether it

0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:56.840
<v Speaker 2>was a it might have been a gin or a

0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.080
<v Speaker 2>a rum, I don't know. It doesn't matter anyway. The

0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:05.399
<v Speaker 2>ad feature Ernest Hemingway. I thought, wait a minute, and

0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.000
<v Speaker 2>the alcoholic who blew his head off as your spokes

0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:13.160
<v Speaker 2>model I'm sorry, there's a disconnect here like this, These

0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:16.480
<v Speaker 2>guys who are extolled as you're you know, you're brooding

0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:21.760
<v Speaker 2>like male archetype heroes. He was a mess, you know.

0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:26.440
<v Speaker 2>Richard Burton was a mess yep uh. You know these

0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:34.920
<v Speaker 2>drinker Jimmy Uh, Judy Garland, Marilyn monty Cliff beautiful, creative,

0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:39.440
<v Speaker 2>vibrant souls. But I would imagine after a certain point

0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:41.600
<v Speaker 2>to the people who love them, the people in their lives,

0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:45.080
<v Speaker 2>I would imagine were exhausting and burned people out like

0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:45.879
<v Speaker 2>rice paper.

0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:49.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I'm sure. And also that the thing that

0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:52.439
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I I think I was. I was pretty

0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:55.200
<v Speaker 1>good at this is putting on some kind of show

0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:58.240
<v Speaker 1>while I was drinking in public. You know, it was

0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:02.040
<v Speaker 1>only it was only after are quite a bit of time,

0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:06.400
<v Speaker 1>and I guess when it became obvious that I had

0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:10.040
<v Speaker 1>a problem. But I would pretend, even to myself, I

0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.080
<v Speaker 1>was having a you know, I was living a wild

0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:15.840
<v Speaker 1>life and having a great time. Same the fetal position

0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:18.960
<v Speaker 1>at four o'clock in the morning, naked and your hotel

0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:22.840
<v Speaker 1>room crying. You know, something you shared with people, just

0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:25.400
<v Speaker 1>like guess what I did last night. It was awesome.

0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:29.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, or being in that position with someone else in

0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:34.080
<v Speaker 2>the room gorgeous. Sure, who's going to look like pity.

0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:37.280
<v Speaker 1>On people's faces. That's why I hated Jesus. I hated

0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:39.840
<v Speaker 1>that when when they would just look.

0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:43.640
<v Speaker 2>At you like what that? What the fuck you? If

0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:46.280
<v Speaker 2>I could remember that, my biggest year was the next

0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:48.840
<v Speaker 2>day or days after hearing about what I did or said.

0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:50.800
<v Speaker 2>That was so unnerving to me.

0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:53.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's why I took cocaine and took blackouts away.

0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:57.679
<v Speaker 2>Ah See, had I only known or had some extra.

0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:00.439
<v Speaker 1>Cash well cocaine, or if I I didn't know it

0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.639
<v Speaker 1>about prescription lens sun's glasses, I think I might still

0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:04.080
<v Speaker 1>be drinking.

0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:05.080
<v Speaker 2>Actually I didn't.

0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:07.960
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know there was such a thing as you

0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:10.000
<v Speaker 1>could get prescription lens sunglasses.

0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:11.520
<v Speaker 2>And if I had known about that, I'd be like,

0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:15.560
<v Speaker 2>it's all. See, they don't talk about you know. Sinatra

0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:17.520
<v Speaker 2>is another one. I don't know if he was an alcoholic,

0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:19.080
<v Speaker 2>but I mean he was a drinker, and he like

0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:22.159
<v Speaker 2>he looked like it. You know, after a while, it

0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:24.439
<v Speaker 2>physically takes a toll. And you look at Frank in

0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:26.960
<v Speaker 2>the seventies as opposed to Frank in the early sixties,

0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:30.680
<v Speaker 2>almost a different guy. He looked like a pincushion, Like really,

0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:36.320
<v Speaker 2>that brown bottled tan takes a toll and I think,

0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:40.119
<v Speaker 2>but there is that kind of huge I mean, you

0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:44.520
<v Speaker 2>you meet with a law of aggression from people who

0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:47.399
<v Speaker 2>have alcohol problems who don't want to Like if you

0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:49.359
<v Speaker 2>say I'm sober and I'm sober because I want to

0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:52.239
<v Speaker 2>be sober, it's like, oh, I you know, it's like

0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:55.880
<v Speaker 2>you somehow copped out. Or it's like when I say

0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:59.159
<v Speaker 2>to people, now look like I'm not I'm not stupid.

0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:04.600
<v Speaker 2>If thinking it was more fun, I do it, and

0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:08.240
<v Speaker 2>I stopped having fun. It wasn't fun anymore, No, not

0:23:08.640 --> 0:23:11.280
<v Speaker 2>at all, And it stopped kind of stopped kind of

0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:14.800
<v Speaker 2>working as well. It stopped kind of you know, like

0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:18.359
<v Speaker 2>I would. I used to be friend of flying and

0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:22.720
<v Speaker 2>I would drink on airplanes to deal with that, and

0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:25.520
<v Speaker 2>then I found out I was just drunk and scared

0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:30.280
<v Speaker 2>it did it did nothing other than just that. How

0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:33.520
<v Speaker 2>are you now with it? Do you?

0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:38.399
<v Speaker 1>Are you very connected to sobriety? Do you attend to

0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:40.159
<v Speaker 1>it a lot? And stuff? I mean I'm kind of

0:23:40.240 --> 0:23:44.320
<v Speaker 1>dancing around the oh yeah, you know the traditions of.

0:23:46.359 --> 0:23:50.440
<v Speaker 2>I do I have a. Let's just say I did

0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:56.400
<v Speaker 2>not do this alone. My parents went that same route. Well,

0:23:56.440 --> 0:23:59.320
<v Speaker 2>you're paying suber when you were a kid. Yeah, my

0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:02.359
<v Speaker 2>dad got so when I was four. My mom got

0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:05.159
<v Speaker 2>sober when I was five. So you don't really remember

0:24:05.200 --> 0:24:08.480
<v Speaker 2>them drinking that, right, I have a very I don't

0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:10.399
<v Speaker 2>have a memory of my mother drunk. But I do

0:24:10.480 --> 0:24:14.000
<v Speaker 2>have a very vague memory of my father passed out

0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:17.440
<v Speaker 2>on a couch in our house and I couldn't wake

0:24:17.480 --> 0:24:19.439
<v Speaker 2>him up. I remember pounding on his chest. I have

0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:23.320
<v Speaker 2>a vague memory of that, and to this day, the

0:24:23.359 --> 0:24:25.840
<v Speaker 2>smell of scotch makes me think of him, even though

0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:28.199
<v Speaker 2>I have no real clear memory of him drinking. But

0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:31.480
<v Speaker 2>the smell of scotch that sensed memory makes me think

0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:33.480
<v Speaker 2>of dad and that was his drink.

0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:38.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I guess look, I feel like you live

0:24:38.800 --> 0:24:41.200
<v Speaker 1>an urbane life.

0:24:41.280 --> 0:24:43.119
<v Speaker 2>Is that? Would that be right to say that you

0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:46.320
<v Speaker 2>live a kind of a city a city life? Oh?

0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:49.560
<v Speaker 2>For sure. I love city living, so you you probably

0:24:49.640 --> 0:24:52.119
<v Speaker 2>run into it quite a lot, right, Oh, all the time.

0:24:52.400 --> 0:24:55.520
<v Speaker 2>There are many times when I'm like in this this

0:24:55.520 --> 0:25:02.280
<v Speaker 2>this birthday weekend in Scotland at five arms, I of

0:25:02.320 --> 0:25:05.160
<v Speaker 2>like the hundred guests because they we kind of commandeered

0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:08.320
<v Speaker 2>this hotel for forty eight hours. I think I was

0:25:08.400 --> 0:25:15.080
<v Speaker 2>one of maybe three total people who weren't drinking, and

0:25:15.520 --> 0:25:19.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, probably in the whole of Scotland. Yea. Literally

0:25:19.920 --> 0:25:22.200
<v Speaker 2>when we went to do like the hunting or not hunting,

0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:26.200
<v Speaker 2>we went to shoot air rifles and throw axes into archery.

0:25:26.440 --> 0:25:29.600
<v Speaker 2>Turns out I'm good at archery. We were given, you know,

0:25:29.680 --> 0:25:32.119
<v Speaker 2>SIPs of like the reward is a sip of whiskey,

0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:36.960
<v Speaker 2>and I just I'm the one who's always passing. But yeah,

0:25:37.040 --> 0:25:40.439
<v Speaker 2>it's just it is still weird to people when you

0:25:40.480 --> 0:25:42.240
<v Speaker 2>don't and they kind of look at you sometimes like

0:25:42.240 --> 0:25:44.880
<v Speaker 2>a broken slot machine, like how do you do this sober?

0:25:44.920 --> 0:25:46.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I just do.

0:25:47.320 --> 0:25:51.199
<v Speaker 1>I How about performing? I've been working as an actor.

0:25:52.080 --> 0:25:55.480
<v Speaker 1>Did you find it a big change once you go sober?

0:25:55.800 --> 0:26:03.200
<v Speaker 2>H I found that less and less. My inhibitions went

0:26:03.240 --> 0:26:07.159
<v Speaker 2>away more and more. Year after year. I would say,

0:26:07.280 --> 0:26:10.919
<v Speaker 2>I have become and maybe it's just age, but I

0:26:10.960 --> 0:26:16.280
<v Speaker 2>have become less inhibited, less self conscious. Like the videos

0:26:16.359 --> 0:26:19.919
<v Speaker 2>I became known for making on social media, you know,

0:26:19.960 --> 0:26:23.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm basically doing a selfie walking down walking down the street,

0:26:24.720 --> 0:26:28.760
<v Speaker 2>and ten years before that, even five years before I

0:26:28.800 --> 0:26:32.560
<v Speaker 2>started doing them, I think I would have been too

0:26:32.600 --> 0:26:34.679
<v Speaker 2>self conscious to actually do it, and I would have

0:26:34.800 --> 0:26:37.040
<v Speaker 2>given a shit what somebody thought of me looking at

0:26:37.040 --> 0:26:39.119
<v Speaker 2>me on the street. Now I don't care. Do you

0:26:39.119 --> 0:26:41.480
<v Speaker 2>look at the comments and stuff when you post that?

0:26:42.280 --> 0:26:44.600
<v Speaker 2>Not as much anymore I used to, because it was like,

0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:49.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean, validation from strangers is like Heroin to me. Yeah,

0:26:49.880 --> 0:26:53.640
<v Speaker 2>but not as much anymore. I just I do want

0:26:53.640 --> 0:26:58.480
<v Speaker 2>to know that it's being liked, but I don't read.

0:26:58.600 --> 0:27:01.040
<v Speaker 2>I will look at comments from ends, and those tend

0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:04.200
<v Speaker 2>to get filtered to the top, thankfully, right, because it's

0:27:04.200 --> 0:27:06.919
<v Speaker 2>a sort of a form of high five and communication,

0:27:07.040 --> 0:27:10.679
<v Speaker 2>and that's lovely. But strangers, it's funny.

0:27:10.720 --> 0:27:13.480
<v Speaker 1>I noticed that I just had to stop reading them

0:27:13.480 --> 0:27:16.520
<v Speaker 1>because I would skip past comments that were positive to

0:27:16.600 --> 0:27:20.040
<v Speaker 1>find the negative ones. Isn't that fun Yeah? I think

0:27:20.080 --> 0:27:24.520
<v Speaker 1>that's some kind of twisted narcissism, I think, and I

0:27:24.920 --> 0:27:26.080
<v Speaker 1>don't like it myself.

0:27:27.160 --> 0:27:30.680
<v Speaker 2>Do you have do you have imposter syndrome? Yes?

0:27:31.400 --> 0:27:35.520
<v Speaker 1>Yes, definitely, the idea that you know I'm not funny,

0:27:35.520 --> 0:27:36.680
<v Speaker 1>I shouldn't.

0:27:36.760 --> 0:27:40.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all of that, Yeah, oh god, do you have that?

0:27:40.880 --> 0:27:43.760
<v Speaker 2>Terribly all the time. I think it's funny. I think

0:27:43.800 --> 0:27:46.400
<v Speaker 2>of you as being super confident. I'm good at faking it.

0:27:46.560 --> 0:27:48.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm very good at faking it. Yes, I go. We'll

0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:57.119
<v Speaker 2>go into a room knowing that I'm fine, like the

0:27:58.200 --> 0:28:00.480
<v Speaker 2>technically I know, I'm fine, like I'm cool, like I

0:28:00.520 --> 0:28:02.240
<v Speaker 2>got the goods to sort of hold my own in

0:28:02.320 --> 0:28:05.240
<v Speaker 2>this space here. But there is that dark voice on

0:28:05.240 --> 0:28:07.400
<v Speaker 2>one on one shoulder saying you suck. You're not funny,

0:28:07.440 --> 0:28:09.159
<v Speaker 2>you're not pretty enough, you're not smart enough, you're not

0:28:09.880 --> 0:28:14.840
<v Speaker 2>talented enough. But I also know that if I don't

0:28:14.880 --> 0:28:18.800
<v Speaker 2>fake it, nothing's gonna nothing's gonna move. So I have

0:28:18.880 --> 0:28:21.480
<v Speaker 2>this weird wherewithal to know that I have to sort

0:28:21.480 --> 0:28:25.159
<v Speaker 2>of power through a very unconfident moment if anything is

0:28:25.160 --> 0:28:28.359
<v Speaker 2>gonna come out of it. So that's I take that route.

0:28:28.800 --> 0:28:29.639
<v Speaker 2>I go, and I go.

0:28:29.720 --> 0:28:31.159
<v Speaker 1>I kind of I did a bit of a I

0:28:31.280 --> 0:28:33.320
<v Speaker 1>got a bit of a sea change with it fairly

0:28:33.359 --> 0:28:37.440
<v Speaker 1>recently because I started doing a lot stand up I've

0:28:37.480 --> 0:28:39.400
<v Speaker 1>bean I've always done stand up comedy.

0:28:39.600 --> 0:28:41.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I've done my whole career and.

0:28:41.600 --> 0:28:44.160
<v Speaker 1>I and I love it, and I love the kind

0:28:44.160 --> 0:28:47.840
<v Speaker 1>of the kind of solo work.

0:28:47.880 --> 0:28:49.680
<v Speaker 2>I love being on a stage on my own.

0:28:49.480 --> 0:28:55.720
<v Speaker 1>And and I I I get very tired of the

0:28:55.760 --> 0:28:59.920
<v Speaker 1>corporate mindset, not just to like when I want to

0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:03.040
<v Speaker 1>CBS for a long time, but also it seems like

0:29:03.120 --> 0:29:05.880
<v Speaker 1>everything is corporate. Like young people will talk about their

0:29:05.920 --> 0:29:09.880
<v Speaker 1>brand like I know what that? What are you talking about?

0:29:09.920 --> 0:29:10.120
<v Speaker 2>You know?

0:29:10.200 --> 0:29:14.400
<v Speaker 1>And like everything is a something that Norman McDonald accused

0:29:14.400 --> 0:29:16.560
<v Speaker 1>me of once that he said I was a seething

0:29:16.680 --> 0:29:21.160
<v Speaker 1>cauldron of ambition, and I think he's probably true. But

0:29:21.160 --> 0:29:24.680
<v Speaker 1>but but I'm not anymore. But I but I think

0:29:24.720 --> 0:29:26.240
<v Speaker 1>that's quite a popular look.

0:29:26.280 --> 0:29:30.760
<v Speaker 2>And I I I rejected, but I got. I had

0:29:30.760 --> 0:29:34.600
<v Speaker 2>this conversation with Jay Leno because I was talking about

0:29:34.640 --> 0:29:36.680
<v Speaker 2>trying to memorize a stand up thing and he said, hey,

0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:39.280
<v Speaker 2>just keep talking, just keep talking. Nobody knows what you're

0:29:39.320 --> 0:29:42.680
<v Speaker 2>meant to be saying. They just keep talking. They don't

0:29:42.720 --> 0:29:45.240
<v Speaker 2>know the act. To just keep talking. Do that in

0:29:45.280 --> 0:29:46.520
<v Speaker 2>your act, because that's great.

0:29:48.080 --> 0:29:50.360
<v Speaker 1>But what I but what I can love about it

0:29:50.400 --> 0:29:56.960
<v Speaker 1>is it's kind of true the if you if you

0:29:57.040 --> 0:29:59.840
<v Speaker 1>can think I'm meant to be here, this is what

0:29:59.880 --> 0:30:01.920
<v Speaker 1>I I do it. Clearly I've been doing it long enough.

0:30:02.600 --> 0:30:04.200
<v Speaker 1>This is what I'm meant to be. I was meant

0:30:04.240 --> 0:30:05.720
<v Speaker 1>to be doing something else, that I'd be doing it.

0:30:05.760 --> 0:30:10.520
<v Speaker 2>But and that that is one of the few blessings

0:30:10.560 --> 0:30:15.880
<v Speaker 2>of age, because I'm I'm kind of struggling a little

0:30:16.000 --> 0:30:21.200
<v Speaker 2>with my corporal the corporeal decline, you know, like I can't.

0:30:21.800 --> 0:30:24.480
<v Speaker 2>I can't. I'm not quite as uh.

0:30:24.920 --> 0:30:27.320
<v Speaker 1>I don't repair as quickly as I used to, like

0:30:27.560 --> 0:30:30.160
<v Speaker 1>I get fat because I get fat and then then

0:30:30.200 --> 0:30:32.120
<v Speaker 1>and fat, and then if I get fat it takes

0:30:32.200 --> 0:30:34.280
<v Speaker 1>me much longer to get not fat again.

0:30:34.680 --> 0:30:38.000
<v Speaker 2>Like this is terrible. It used to be easy. I know.

0:30:38.560 --> 0:30:40.720
<v Speaker 2>I quit smoking two and a half years ago and

0:30:40.800 --> 0:30:44.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm still trying to And when I was smoking and fit,

0:30:45.120 --> 0:30:47.800
<v Speaker 2>I sort of did this devil's dance of being very

0:30:47.840 --> 0:30:52.280
<v Speaker 2>fit and exercising and eating pretty well. But that vice

0:30:52.360 --> 0:30:55.520
<v Speaker 2>was cigarettes, which I'm not. I don't crave them anymore,

0:30:55.560 --> 0:30:57.640
<v Speaker 2>but I do come kind of miss them sometimes.

0:30:57.640 --> 0:31:00.560
<v Speaker 1>But oh, I fucking listen, I fucking love smoking, and

0:31:00.600 --> 0:31:02.520
<v Speaker 1>I have every cigarette over twenty five years.

0:31:02.600 --> 0:31:04.120
<v Speaker 2>I loved every cigarette I ever had.

0:31:04.400 --> 0:31:07.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, I fucking loved it. And if it

0:31:07.760 --> 0:31:10.480
<v Speaker 1>didn't give you cancer, I'd still do it. Absolute it

0:31:10.520 --> 0:31:15.120
<v Speaker 1>gives you, it just does, and but I was such

0:31:15.120 --> 0:31:17.680
<v Speaker 1>a sexy weight. I was like, I can't fit into

0:31:17.680 --> 0:31:19.880
<v Speaker 1>the suits I wore. So I'm in the process now

0:31:20.480 --> 0:31:25.240
<v Speaker 1>of getting back down. So I got to eat my feelings.

0:31:25.520 --> 0:31:27.720
<v Speaker 1>That's the carrot that I use for myself as well,

0:31:27.720 --> 0:31:30.160
<v Speaker 1>because I had this deal when I was in late

0:31:30.240 --> 0:31:32.760
<v Speaker 1>night that my agent made that I get I got

0:31:32.800 --> 0:31:35.760
<v Speaker 1>to keep all the suits that I ever had, and like,

0:31:35.800 --> 0:31:37.760
<v Speaker 1>so I've got like one hundred and fifty suits from

0:31:37.800 --> 0:31:40.200
<v Speaker 1>me late night shows and game shows and stuff like

0:31:40.280 --> 0:31:42.640
<v Speaker 1>that I can't wear any So.

0:31:44.160 --> 0:31:47.280
<v Speaker 2>I have this idea that if you lose another ten pounds,

0:31:47.360 --> 0:31:50.760
<v Speaker 2>you'll get You'll win one hundred and fifty suits, you know.

0:31:51.560 --> 0:31:55.560
<v Speaker 2>So it kind of it's hard though, and I feel like,

0:31:57.000 --> 0:32:00.320
<v Speaker 2>were you fat as a kid? Your tubby kid. This

0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:04.680
<v Speaker 2>is the first time I've struggled with taking off weight.

0:32:05.240 --> 0:32:10.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm It's not like I'm not obese or something. I'm

0:32:10.400 --> 0:32:12.040
<v Speaker 2>well aware of it and I don't think I have

0:32:12.160 --> 0:32:14.920
<v Speaker 2>like body dysmorphia. But let's just I can't fit into

0:32:14.960 --> 0:32:17.320
<v Speaker 2>the suits that I invested a lot of tailoring into.

0:32:17.760 --> 0:32:21.600
<v Speaker 2>So it's it's I'm about twenty pounds north of where

0:32:21.640 --> 0:32:25.840
<v Speaker 2>I want to be and that's hard. It's harder for

0:32:25.880 --> 0:32:28.880
<v Speaker 2>me than I thought, and it requires a discipline that

0:32:28.960 --> 0:32:30.680
<v Speaker 2>I thought I had, but I got to work a

0:32:30.680 --> 0:32:33.040
<v Speaker 2>little bit harder. Well, you know, this is my first

0:32:33.320 --> 0:32:34.160
<v Speaker 2>about how you feel.

0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:36.920
<v Speaker 1>I mean, there are people who carry twenty thirty forty

0:32:36.960 --> 0:32:38.680
<v Speaker 1>extra punds who are just fine.

0:32:38.400 --> 0:32:42.160
<v Speaker 2>But you know it, it's not you know, I wouldn't.

0:32:42.200 --> 0:32:45.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't think there's a body type that's perfect for everybody.

0:32:45.120 --> 0:32:49.240
<v Speaker 2>But I know for for me, if I carry extra weight,

0:32:49.320 --> 0:32:51.560
<v Speaker 2>I feel ashamed. I was my neckname when I was

0:32:51.600 --> 0:32:55.640
<v Speaker 2>a kid was Tubby. No, yeah, yeah, you wouldn't. You

0:32:55.640 --> 0:32:58.960
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't be allowed to do that. Kids are such bitches.

0:32:59.080 --> 0:33:01.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, Oh my god. I've told the teachers

0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:05.320
<v Speaker 2>as well. I mean it was they were horrible. The

0:33:05.400 --> 0:33:06.680
<v Speaker 2>teachers would say that to you.

0:33:06.960 --> 0:33:11.360
<v Speaker 1>Oh yes, oh horrible Tubby fans didn't come out he yet,

0:33:11.480 --> 0:33:12.360
<v Speaker 1>fat wee body.

0:33:13.040 --> 0:33:19.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay. I don't think I've ever managed to shake it.

0:33:19.680 --> 0:33:22.680
<v Speaker 2>I really don't. Through all the years of getting sober

0:33:22.720 --> 0:33:25.560
<v Speaker 2>and therapy and everyone else, I'm do you get therapy?

0:33:25.640 --> 0:33:27.640
<v Speaker 2>Do you go to therapy? Is that I did? I

0:33:27.680 --> 0:33:32.240
<v Speaker 2>had a very bad bout of post COVID anxiety that

0:33:32.360 --> 0:33:36.760
<v Speaker 2>manifested in the form of and I didn't know it

0:33:36.760 --> 0:33:39.920
<v Speaker 2>at the time. It was when I quit smoking. It

0:33:40.040 --> 0:33:42.840
<v Speaker 2>was why I quit smoking. Initially, I thought I was

0:33:42.880 --> 0:33:46.960
<v Speaker 2>having heart attacks. I was, I was seeing. It first

0:33:47.000 --> 0:33:49.360
<v Speaker 2>happened when I was seeing To Kill a Mockingbird on

0:33:49.400 --> 0:33:51.840
<v Speaker 2>Broadway with Jeff Daniels, just before he left the show

0:33:51.920 --> 0:33:54.160
<v Speaker 2>after COVID, Everyone's wearing a mask in the theater. We're

0:33:54.160 --> 0:33:57.440
<v Speaker 2>all like look at each other, like, don't breathe. And

0:33:57.600 --> 0:34:00.520
<v Speaker 2>I as soon as the show started, I feel like

0:34:00.560 --> 0:34:03.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm having a heart attack, and I'm thinking, fuck, I'm

0:34:03.320 --> 0:34:05.000
<v Speaker 2>going to be the guy they stopped the show for,

0:34:05.120 --> 0:34:10.920
<v Speaker 2>and I'm leaving this theater in a stretcher. But I

0:34:11.000 --> 0:34:15.640
<v Speaker 2>managed to breathe through it somehow. Anyway, panic attacks like

0:34:15.719 --> 0:34:21.200
<v Speaker 2>that that felt like a heart attacks, anxiety, fatigue. I

0:34:21.239 --> 0:34:24.640
<v Speaker 2>could not climb. I live on a night floor. Sometimes

0:34:24.680 --> 0:34:26.359
<v Speaker 2>I would take the stairs just to keep my ass

0:34:26.360 --> 0:34:29.359
<v Speaker 2>in the same place at Spenson's College, and I would

0:34:29.400 --> 0:34:31.879
<v Speaker 2>get exhausted by the third floor, like I couldn't get

0:34:31.880 --> 0:34:34.480
<v Speaker 2>to the third floor without feeling like my chest is

0:34:34.480 --> 0:34:38.440
<v Speaker 2>going to explode. Did you get COVID was a result

0:34:38.440 --> 0:34:40.839
<v Speaker 2>I did? This was what I learned later is that

0:34:40.880 --> 0:34:43.759
<v Speaker 2>what I would the litany of these horrible, like sort

0:34:43.760 --> 0:34:46.560
<v Speaker 2>of knocking at death's door feelings that I was getting

0:34:48.160 --> 0:34:52.000
<v Speaker 2>were from a weird long COVID. I went to a

0:34:52.000 --> 0:34:54.719
<v Speaker 2>long COVID care center at Mount Sina and she said,

0:34:54.760 --> 0:34:57.040
<v Speaker 2>we're hearing a ton of this and there's nothing I

0:34:57.080 --> 0:34:58.680
<v Speaker 2>have for you. You just kind of have to ride

0:34:58.680 --> 0:35:02.960
<v Speaker 2>it out. And I just thought, oh Jesus so And

0:35:03.000 --> 0:35:05.000
<v Speaker 2>there were emotional things I was. I was like a

0:35:05.000 --> 0:35:08.719
<v Speaker 2>lot of people during COVID and lockdown and loneliness and isolation.

0:35:11.160 --> 0:35:14.480
<v Speaker 2>I went to see a therapist about it and went

0:35:14.520 --> 0:35:18.040
<v Speaker 2>for about a year. We had a really good, productive year,

0:35:18.080 --> 0:35:20.240
<v Speaker 2>and she said, you know, I think you're doing really well.

0:35:20.360 --> 0:35:22.279
<v Speaker 2>You can. I would love to keep seeing you if

0:35:22.280 --> 0:35:24.560
<v Speaker 2>you want. But I think if you wanted to, you know,

0:35:25.200 --> 0:35:28.719
<v Speaker 2>pump the brakes, we're good with that too. So I'm cured. No,

0:35:30.320 --> 0:35:33.160
<v Speaker 2>that's a great therapist. But it was. We had a

0:35:33.200 --> 0:35:38.120
<v Speaker 2>good It was very helpful, very helpful, and so I've

0:35:38.160 --> 0:35:41.000
<v Speaker 2>done that. Exercise is helpful. I learned how to breathe.

0:35:41.440 --> 0:35:46.560
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't breathing properly. You do yoga and stuff. No,

0:35:47.200 --> 0:35:50.000
<v Speaker 2>there was this guy I heard on NPR. His name

0:35:50.040 --> 0:35:53.320
<v Speaker 2>is James Nestor, and he wrote this book called Breath

0:35:54.160 --> 0:35:58.920
<v Speaker 2>about three or four years ago, and he was on

0:35:58.920 --> 0:36:05.320
<v Speaker 2>the book. It's very strange. I'm thinking about what about

0:36:05.360 --> 0:36:07.719
<v Speaker 2>how we have done such damage to ourselves as a

0:36:07.719 --> 0:36:12.480
<v Speaker 2>species through breathing improperly. It was kind of fascinating anyway,

0:36:12.600 --> 0:36:16.239
<v Speaker 2>extremely helpful, game changing. It was on Fresh Air, I

0:36:16.280 --> 0:36:18.680
<v Speaker 2>think with Terry Gross and so I gave that a

0:36:18.719 --> 0:36:21.120
<v Speaker 2>shut it up. I'll send you the I'll send you

0:36:21.160 --> 0:36:23.800
<v Speaker 2>the link to it. It's, yes, please, a game changer.

0:36:25.040 --> 0:36:27.680
<v Speaker 2>The big takeaway inhale through the nose. We should not

0:36:27.719 --> 0:36:32.160
<v Speaker 2>be breathing through our mouth, which I did not know. Yeah,

0:36:33.120 --> 0:36:38.680
<v Speaker 2>but yeah, therapy. I am all for, really, Craig anything.

0:36:40.120 --> 0:36:43.239
<v Speaker 2>I'm not opposed to medicine. I do take some like

0:36:43.360 --> 0:36:49.040
<v Speaker 2>lipotour but I would like to be at a point

0:36:49.120 --> 0:36:51.800
<v Speaker 2>where I am you know, food is medicine to me,

0:36:51.840 --> 0:36:54.480
<v Speaker 2>and I would like to be eating better, exercising a

0:36:54.520 --> 0:36:59.560
<v Speaker 2>little bit more and not need these medications. But for now,

0:36:59.719 --> 0:37:04.319
<v Speaker 2>you know, fine.

0:37:06.960 --> 0:37:08.680
<v Speaker 1>I think it's it's kind of a part of the

0:37:08.719 --> 0:37:14.359
<v Speaker 1>Asian process, the modern Asian processes, is to get sanguine

0:37:14.400 --> 0:37:17.240
<v Speaker 1>with with medication, a little bit, and.

0:37:17.120 --> 0:37:22.239
<v Speaker 2>I I about two years ago, maybe a year ago, I.

0:37:22.200 --> 0:37:26.840
<v Speaker 1>Had a an endoscope. My father died of sulfagio cancer,

0:37:27.080 --> 0:37:29.320
<v Speaker 1>and I was experiencing.

0:37:29.960 --> 0:37:32.560
<v Speaker 2>A lot of indigestion. So I had to get an endoscope.

0:37:32.560 --> 0:37:37.920
<v Speaker 1>And they didn't find any barretts or any cancer stuff,

0:37:38.000 --> 0:37:44.000
<v Speaker 1>but I was. I was getting constant indigestion, which was

0:37:44.080 --> 0:37:45.240
<v Speaker 1>really awful.

0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:49.880
<v Speaker 2>And they put me on these medications for a while,

0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:56.279
<v Speaker 2>and I they really worked, but I've got such a

0:37:56.400 --> 0:37:59.240
<v Speaker 2>resistance to that kind of thing. I just I also

0:37:59.400 --> 0:38:01.200
<v Speaker 2>I also feel Look, I'm not a doctor, and I'm

0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:04.200
<v Speaker 2>in no way qualified to say this, but I feel like,

0:38:04.480 --> 0:38:06.239
<v Speaker 2>if you're on medication for a long time, it's got

0:38:06.280 --> 0:38:09.640
<v Speaker 2>to be doing something to your lever, to your kidneys,

0:38:09.680 --> 0:38:11.600
<v Speaker 2>to your it's got to be it's got to be

0:38:11.680 --> 0:38:14.719
<v Speaker 2>doing something. It's just it's an extra thing. It's a

0:38:14.840 --> 0:38:16.520
<v Speaker 2>it's another thing for it to deal with.

0:38:16.600 --> 0:38:18.840
<v Speaker 1>And I know that modern medicine is a miracle, and

0:38:18.880 --> 0:38:22.960
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't tell anyone to stop taking medicine, but I

0:38:22.960 --> 0:38:25.760
<v Speaker 1>I get a little uncomfortable.

0:38:27.680 --> 0:38:31.080
<v Speaker 2>Being on anything for too long. You and me both,

0:38:31.320 --> 0:38:34.839
<v Speaker 2>I know exactly what you're talking about, and I think, well,

0:38:34.880 --> 0:38:38.560
<v Speaker 2>you touched upon this just now like without it. Uh,

0:38:38.800 --> 0:38:41.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's this is this is a I don't

0:38:41.280 --> 0:38:43.080
<v Speaker 2>want to say miracle, but it is a miracle of

0:38:43.160 --> 0:38:47.239
<v Speaker 2>human ingenuity, medicines, vaccines, all of this stuff. I am

0:38:47.320 --> 0:38:51.279
<v Speaker 2>all in it. I just there is a part of me.

0:38:51.480 --> 0:38:53.759
<v Speaker 2>Maybe it's a little bit of a resentment. I don't

0:38:53.760 --> 0:38:56.000
<v Speaker 2>want to be on the hook to the to the

0:38:56.360 --> 0:39:00.400
<v Speaker 2>uh pharma monster for the rest of my life. You know,

0:39:01.320 --> 0:39:03.759
<v Speaker 2>you know this is not that weight has ever been

0:39:03.760 --> 0:39:05.719
<v Speaker 2>a struggle. But I know that there are people on it,

0:39:05.800 --> 0:39:09.320
<v Speaker 2>and I think with GOV and ozampiic and stuff, but

0:39:09.360 --> 0:39:11.399
<v Speaker 2>it's going to make a They're going to be game

0:39:11.520 --> 0:39:14.160
<v Speaker 2>changers for so many people, and they were already.

0:39:14.440 --> 0:39:16.279
<v Speaker 1>I talked to a couple I had a doctor on

0:39:16.320 --> 0:39:18.879
<v Speaker 1>the podcast actually I was talking to about it, and

0:39:19.760 --> 0:39:21.640
<v Speaker 1>he was saying, oh, no, these things were great.

0:39:21.760 --> 0:39:25.759
<v Speaker 2>They're they're they're fabulous. The thing is about it. I

0:39:25.800 --> 0:39:27.800
<v Speaker 2>also talked to a friend of mine who lost a lot.

0:39:27.640 --> 0:39:32.239
<v Speaker 1>Of weight and he'd done it through having ozam pic

0:39:32.920 --> 0:39:35.800
<v Speaker 1>and I said, I said, it works.

0:39:35.840 --> 0:39:39.080
<v Speaker 2>Then clearly he said it does supposed to do. He said,

0:39:39.120 --> 0:39:43.720
<v Speaker 2>you just don't. He's just not hungry. I said, I haven't.

0:39:43.920 --> 0:39:46.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't eat because I'm hungry. I eat because I'm sad.

0:39:48.600 --> 0:39:56.200
<v Speaker 2>I haven't been hungry since nineteen seventy four. I feelings,

0:39:57.480 --> 0:40:06.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm it's just I'm like, that's why I TV. Feelings

0:40:06.600 --> 0:40:12.200
<v Speaker 2>are delicious. Oh my god. Yeah, I love eating my feelings.

0:40:12.560 --> 0:40:15.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I think it's probably all wrapped up in

0:40:15.480 --> 0:40:22.080
<v Speaker 1>the same dark magic of alcoholism and and food and sex.

0:40:22.200 --> 0:40:24.560
<v Speaker 1>And did you ever get into any of the others,

0:40:24.600 --> 0:40:29.279
<v Speaker 1>the gamblings or the compulsive sex or anything fabulous?

0:40:30.600 --> 0:40:33.960
<v Speaker 2>Never with the gambling, And I never did anything stronger

0:40:33.960 --> 0:40:37.399
<v Speaker 2>than weed. Well alcohol kills more people than any of them.

0:40:37.400 --> 0:40:41.839
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, there were periods, not for a long time,

0:40:41.920 --> 0:40:44.120
<v Speaker 2>but there were periods where my my sex drive was

0:40:44.160 --> 0:40:45.640
<v Speaker 2>in hyperdrive. For sure.

0:40:46.520 --> 0:40:49.200
<v Speaker 1>Well, if you're in great shape and you're drinking, those

0:40:49.239 --> 0:40:53.200
<v Speaker 1>things can that can come together in a hail of

0:40:53.239 --> 0:40:53.600
<v Speaker 1>a Look?

0:40:54.480 --> 0:40:56.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you know, waking up with people I ordinarily

0:40:56.840 --> 0:40:58.920
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't sit next to on a bus, but hey, you

0:40:58.960 --> 0:41:03.880
<v Speaker 2>know it's he kept me company for an evening. It's fine. Yeah.

0:41:03.960 --> 0:41:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Is there a subway near here? Are in New York?

0:41:10.239 --> 0:41:16.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm George, by the way, What about Uh? I I

0:41:16.200 --> 0:41:19.080
<v Speaker 2>think a little bit about young people if they're being

0:41:19.200 --> 0:41:23.160
<v Speaker 2>irresponsible or or being a little wild.

0:41:23.520 --> 0:41:27.239
<v Speaker 1>As I sadly was when I was young. I I

0:41:27.320 --> 0:41:29.320
<v Speaker 1>feel for them because they're being filmed.

0:41:30.760 --> 0:41:34.560
<v Speaker 2>Yes, oh my god, Craig, could you imagine being active

0:41:34.840 --> 0:41:38.240
<v Speaker 2>with the way people are now we have film studios

0:41:38.239 --> 0:41:42.279
<v Speaker 2>and radio stations in our pockets. Yeah, no way, I'd

0:41:42.320 --> 0:41:45.520
<v Speaker 2>be in so much trouble. Well, I think I think

0:41:45.560 --> 0:41:46.440
<v Speaker 2>it it is.

0:41:46.719 --> 0:41:49.319
<v Speaker 1>I mean, they're quite brutal with each other, the young

0:41:49.400 --> 0:41:52.200
<v Speaker 1>I think they're they're all kind of like you know,

0:41:52.280 --> 0:42:00.799
<v Speaker 1>they're they're tough, and and those those shame based tabloids

0:42:00.880 --> 0:42:05.799
<v Speaker 1>and uh and you know these websites where he oh,

0:42:05.920 --> 0:42:06.720
<v Speaker 1>well tmz.

0:42:07.520 --> 0:42:10.359
<v Speaker 2>It's not one I really know very much. But I'm

0:42:10.360 --> 0:42:13.320
<v Speaker 2>thinking more of like the British tabloid ones. They're they're awful,

0:42:13.440 --> 0:42:17.799
<v Speaker 2>they're looking for a gotcha moment. I mean, but that

0:42:17.800 --> 0:42:20.600
<v Speaker 2>that's not new for British tabloid culture though, no, I

0:42:20.640 --> 0:42:22.080
<v Speaker 2>guess no, or even it.

0:42:22.120 --> 0:42:25.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean, look, Hurst was a bit of a it

0:42:25.760 --> 0:42:27.480
<v Speaker 1>was a bit of a gotcha character as well, but

0:42:27.520 --> 0:42:30.440
<v Speaker 1>it was more about wars and power, you know, I

0:42:30.480 --> 0:42:34.719
<v Speaker 1>think for him, well at the celebrity I mean even

0:42:34.760 --> 0:42:36.399
<v Speaker 1>Did you read this Scotty Bowers book?

0:42:36.480 --> 0:42:37.880
<v Speaker 2>Did you ever read that book? No?

0:42:38.000 --> 0:42:42.960
<v Speaker 1>Do tell Oh my god, it's fantastic getting a pen.

0:42:44.200 --> 0:42:51.120
<v Speaker 1>Scottie Bowers was, Uh, he was. I guess he was

0:42:51.200 --> 0:42:54.320
<v Speaker 1>sort of a hooker in Hollywood.

0:42:54.400 --> 0:42:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh, yes, I did. And I saw the documentary. I know, right, yeah,

0:42:59.440 --> 0:43:04.279
<v Speaker 2>Scotty bow right. That's the name, right, Scottie. You might

0:43:04.280 --> 0:43:05.600
<v Speaker 2>be wrong on the last name, but you might be

0:43:05.640 --> 0:43:07.600
<v Speaker 2>right on the last name. But I know exactly what

0:43:07.600 --> 0:43:11.799
<v Speaker 2>you're talking about. Blonde, the little sexually ambiguous. Liked it

0:43:11.840 --> 0:43:14.760
<v Speaker 2>both ways, Yeah, but liked it more all the ways

0:43:14.760 --> 0:43:19.640
<v Speaker 2>that can be liked, like a couple of years ago. Yeah.

0:43:19.800 --> 0:43:27.080
<v Speaker 1>And the story in the book about Charles Lawnton, I

0:43:27.120 --> 0:43:30.120
<v Speaker 1>don't know if that can be true. It can't be true.

0:43:30.200 --> 0:43:36.040
<v Speaker 1>It's so bizarre for the kids at home. Please tell us, well,

0:43:36.280 --> 0:43:39.799
<v Speaker 1>you tell it. I only saw the documentary. You read

0:43:39.800 --> 0:43:41.880
<v Speaker 1>the right, but please go ahead.

0:43:42.120 --> 0:43:46.760
<v Speaker 2>In the book, it's alleged that Charles Lawton paid someone

0:43:46.800 --> 0:43:50.360
<v Speaker 2>to do a poop on a sandwich and then he

0:43:51.239 --> 0:43:53.560
<v Speaker 2>sat down and ate it, and that was a thing

0:43:53.600 --> 0:43:58.719
<v Speaker 2>for him. I can't believe that that's true. That there

0:43:58.800 --> 0:44:02.960
<v Speaker 2>is a perversion for everyone. Yeah, I mean a ship sandwich.

0:44:03.600 --> 0:44:07.319
<v Speaker 2>I mean literally, and yeah, I mean it's still like.

0:44:07.719 --> 0:44:10.560
<v Speaker 1>This is a ship sandwich like an expression, it actually

0:44:10.719 --> 0:44:11.720
<v Speaker 1>is a ship sandwich.

0:44:11.760 --> 0:44:18.480
<v Speaker 2>I I mean, I hate to shame them, but I mean, wow,

0:44:18.680 --> 0:44:21.080
<v Speaker 2>to each one get to that? Do you know what

0:44:21.120 --> 0:44:23.120
<v Speaker 2>I mean? How do you get to the you know what?

0:44:23.160 --> 0:44:30.360
<v Speaker 2>I'd like the menu of kinks? Like I'm so vanilla.

0:44:30.840 --> 0:44:34.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh me too, I'm so vanilla, and just blow on it.

0:44:34.239 --> 0:44:40.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm happy. I breeze does it for me on a

0:44:40.960 --> 0:44:45.360
<v Speaker 2>good day? Come on? But wow? Is that in that

0:44:45.520 --> 0:44:48.840
<v Speaker 2>Breathe book? By the way I learned it? Where I

0:44:48.920 --> 0:44:52.120
<v Speaker 2>learned it, I don't know. I'm going to read that though,

0:44:52.160 --> 0:44:56.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm to find some kind of and the audiobook is helpful.

0:44:56.560 --> 0:45:00.319
<v Speaker 2>I actually I consumed it via audio book. Doing that

0:45:00.480 --> 0:45:03.439
<v Speaker 2>all the time now me too. I love them all

0:45:03.520 --> 0:45:09.120
<v Speaker 2>the time. I've become obsessed with gourvi Dal love. I

0:45:09.160 --> 0:45:11.040
<v Speaker 2>wish they were still around. There were voices I wish

0:45:11.080 --> 0:45:12.520
<v Speaker 2>were still around. His was one of them.

0:45:12.600 --> 0:45:17.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Gourvidal Jordan Rivers two essential names that I think

0:45:17.400 --> 0:45:21.680
<v Speaker 1>that we are diminished from. People always going about George Carlin,

0:45:21.719 --> 0:45:25.560
<v Speaker 1>and he certainly was great, but the Jordan Rivers and

0:45:25.560 --> 0:45:30.280
<v Speaker 1>gourvi Dal, those voices of dissent and troublemakers.

0:45:32.280 --> 0:45:35.560
<v Speaker 2>They are sadly messed right now. I had the privilege

0:45:36.280 --> 0:45:38.239
<v Speaker 2>of working for John Rivers at the end of the time.

0:45:38.520 --> 0:45:42.040
<v Speaker 2>Really yeah, I ran her social media. No, I didn't

0:45:42.040 --> 0:45:47.640
<v Speaker 2>know that true story. I started on Twitter and I

0:45:47.760 --> 0:45:52.480
<v Speaker 2>was following her and she was whining about her assistant.

0:45:52.520 --> 0:45:54.680
<v Speaker 2>I found out later was upset she couldn't change the

0:45:55.719 --> 0:45:57.560
<v Speaker 2>you could change the color on your background on your

0:45:57.560 --> 0:46:00.239
<v Speaker 2>page or whatever. Anyway, I offered to help, and then

0:46:00.239 --> 0:46:02.880
<v Speaker 2>we were connected. And then I got to know her

0:46:03.560 --> 0:46:06.360
<v Speaker 2>CEO of her company and her friend, and he reached

0:46:06.360 --> 0:46:09.440
<v Speaker 2>out to me one day out of the blue and said,

0:46:10.880 --> 0:46:16.080
<v Speaker 2>we're all doing Jones Instagram and Facebook, and we need

0:46:16.120 --> 0:46:18.799
<v Speaker 2>a little someone to organize. We need someone to run

0:46:18.840 --> 0:46:21.960
<v Speaker 2>this because we're all doing our own jobs and this

0:46:22.239 --> 0:46:26.000
<v Speaker 2>we should have just someone doing just this for Joan.

0:46:26.640 --> 0:46:31.880
<v Speaker 2>Would you be interested. I'm like, uh, yeah, So I

0:46:32.480 --> 0:46:39.000
<v Speaker 2>signed that. I signed that NDA June of twenty fourteen

0:46:40.160 --> 0:46:42.520
<v Speaker 2>and was with her for that summer, and then she

0:46:42.600 --> 0:46:45.120
<v Speaker 2>died three months later. But I was running her social

0:46:45.160 --> 0:46:49.080
<v Speaker 2>media and I was really writing Joe really loved her,

0:46:49.360 --> 0:46:52.959
<v Speaker 2>you know. I never met Oh craig. She was first

0:46:53.000 --> 0:46:58.880
<v Speaker 2>of all three feet tall. As a friend as a

0:46:58.880 --> 0:47:04.000
<v Speaker 2>friend of mine said, there's something about that woman, whether

0:47:04.040 --> 0:47:09.439
<v Speaker 2>you knew who it was or not, she just looked famous. Yeah,

0:47:09.480 --> 0:47:11.840
<v Speaker 2>I know a couple of people like that. It's the hair,

0:47:11.960 --> 0:47:15.759
<v Speaker 2>it's the jewels, it's the tailor, chanelle, jacket, whatever. She

0:47:16.000 --> 0:47:25.040
<v Speaker 2>just looked famous. But smart, funny, groundbreaker, door kicker, opener,

0:47:25.200 --> 0:47:29.000
<v Speaker 2>you know all of it. I mean, really a real

0:47:29.040 --> 0:47:33.880
<v Speaker 2>game changer. Yeah. And Gorfidal as well, I feel is

0:47:34.080 --> 0:47:39.080
<v Speaker 2>a voice that particularly the young, the young and the

0:47:39.160 --> 0:47:42.400
<v Speaker 2>queer right now seemed to have a.

0:47:43.880 --> 0:47:46.319
<v Speaker 1>Well maybe maybe they do connect to it, but I

0:47:46.360 --> 0:47:51.440
<v Speaker 1>think he's he was such a great voice for current thinking.

0:47:53.440 --> 0:47:58.560
<v Speaker 2>And I be articulate, oh, in a way that young

0:47:58.560 --> 0:47:59.160
<v Speaker 2>people are not.

0:47:59.320 --> 0:48:02.759
<v Speaker 1>I don't think to well, yeah, I mean through no

0:48:02.800 --> 0:48:06.359
<v Speaker 1>follow their own I think that I think the the

0:48:06.520 --> 0:48:10.120
<v Speaker 1>handheld devices are used badly or terrible, and you they're

0:48:10.200 --> 0:48:16.880
<v Speaker 1>they're like, you know, if they're badly used, their you know,

0:48:16.920 --> 0:48:19.839
<v Speaker 1>they they'll they'll destroy you. And if you use them

0:48:19.840 --> 0:48:24.200
<v Speaker 1>the right way, they're they're fantastic, you know. And I

0:48:24.280 --> 0:48:26.080
<v Speaker 1>but who's to say what's the right way? I just

0:48:26.120 --> 0:48:31.399
<v Speaker 1>feel literacy is really dropping down with with the young.

0:48:31.480 --> 0:48:32.399
<v Speaker 1>But maybe I'm wrong.

0:48:32.480 --> 0:48:35.520
<v Speaker 2>Maybe with me, I'm I read a lot less because

0:48:35.560 --> 0:48:39.200
<v Speaker 2>I use my phone for for somebody else to read me.

0:48:39.719 --> 0:48:41.880
<v Speaker 2>I just last year started referring to other guys as

0:48:41.960 --> 0:48:47.000
<v Speaker 2>bro like I just it's going down. No, not yet. No,

0:48:47.040 --> 0:48:51.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm not there yet. I'm not going to I'm not

0:48:51.400 --> 0:48:55.680
<v Speaker 2>gonna brow the the the gore Vidal thing, he was

0:48:55.719 --> 0:49:00.000
<v Speaker 2>a master and such a such I would I encourage

0:49:00.160 --> 0:49:03.439
<v Speaker 2>every young person to watch that. Uh find that clip

0:49:03.480 --> 0:49:05.759
<v Speaker 2>on YouTube? And I think it was was it on

0:49:06.440 --> 0:49:12.480
<v Speaker 2>the Cavit Show with him and Truman Capote? No Gorvidal

0:49:12.640 --> 0:49:15.040
<v Speaker 2>and oh I know what you mean?

0:49:15.120 --> 0:49:20.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, I can't remember who it is.

0:49:20.760 --> 0:49:22.880
<v Speaker 2>This was terrible. I want to refer to the social

0:49:22.920 --> 0:49:25.680
<v Speaker 2>media world, but oh god, you know what I'm talking about.

0:49:26.000 --> 0:49:31.040
<v Speaker 2>William F. Buckley, Yes, legendary watching those two cats go

0:49:31.160 --> 0:49:36.319
<v Speaker 2>at it, but uh uh yeah, particulate, smart and and

0:49:37.080 --> 0:49:39.040
<v Speaker 2>loved his insights and his the way he had his

0:49:39.120 --> 0:49:40.240
<v Speaker 2>finger on a certain pulse.

0:49:40.280 --> 0:49:45.520
<v Speaker 1>It was just did you ever come across his novelization

0:49:46.120 --> 0:49:52.280
<v Speaker 1>of Julie and the Apostate, No, the the the Roman Emperor?

0:49:52.400 --> 0:49:56.279
<v Speaker 1>That tried to steer the world back to helen Hellenistic

0:49:57.000 --> 0:50:03.799
<v Speaker 1>religion after constantine A changed, you know, it convert to

0:50:03.840 --> 0:50:08.520
<v Speaker 1>the Roman Empire to Christianity, and it is it sounds

0:50:08.600 --> 0:50:11.440
<v Speaker 1>like a kind of I think on the surface, it

0:50:11.480 --> 0:50:16.200
<v Speaker 1>sounds like a rather kind of kind of academic study.

0:50:16.239 --> 0:50:19.320
<v Speaker 1>And it is so entertaining. It's like fucking Game of Thrones.

0:50:19.360 --> 0:50:25.200
<v Speaker 1>It's fabulous. I'm writing this down Julian. I think it's

0:50:25.200 --> 0:50:28.680
<v Speaker 1>just called Julian. Actually, it's a wonderful, wonderful book. And

0:50:28.760 --> 0:50:34.080
<v Speaker 1>then and then the Narratives of Empire, the the I

0:50:34.160 --> 0:50:37.040
<v Speaker 1>think it's seven novels about the political history of the

0:50:37.160 --> 0:50:43.080
<v Speaker 1>United States. Where are just fantastic. Yeah. I have decided, actually,

0:50:43.360 --> 0:50:46.160
<v Speaker 1>because I've been banging on on this podcast and everywhere

0:50:46.160 --> 0:50:48.960
<v Speaker 1>else about how much I loved Gorvie Dale's biography of

0:50:49.200 --> 0:50:52.560
<v Speaker 1>arn Bird. I'm going to start petitioning someone to write

0:50:52.800 --> 0:50:56.880
<v Speaker 1>a rebuttal to Hamilton on Broadway that you should have

0:50:56.920 --> 0:51:01.200
<v Speaker 1>The Bird musical where you get the other point of view,

0:51:01.400 --> 0:51:07.880
<v Speaker 1>because it was crazy and much more interesting than perhaps

0:51:07.880 --> 0:51:10.799
<v Speaker 1>he's been portrayed into this sort of I mean, yes,

0:51:11.040 --> 0:51:13.840
<v Speaker 1>a murderer, uh huh, Okay.

0:51:13.480 --> 0:51:18.360
<v Speaker 2>But we all are going on. We all have our faults. Yes,

0:51:18.520 --> 0:51:19.719
<v Speaker 2>progress not perfection.

0:51:19.920 --> 0:51:23.960
<v Speaker 1>Come on, Yes, that's right. It's it's a you know,

0:51:24.120 --> 0:51:28.480
<v Speaker 1>the idea that as while you're the vice president, you

0:51:28.600 --> 0:51:31.359
<v Speaker 1>kill someone and a jewel and you go to try

0:51:31.400 --> 0:51:34.319
<v Speaker 1>and raise an army, which I feel that's a skill

0:51:34.360 --> 0:51:36.440
<v Speaker 1>that's been lost. I wouldn't know how to raise an

0:51:36.560 --> 0:51:39.000
<v Speaker 1>army now. I don't think people know how to raise

0:51:39.000 --> 0:51:42.600
<v Speaker 1>an army. No, no, would you know? No, it's a

0:51:42.680 --> 0:51:44.560
<v Speaker 1>lost skill. Yeah.

0:51:45.680 --> 0:51:48.719
<v Speaker 2>Would that be the same as well, let's not put

0:51:48.760 --> 0:51:53.080
<v Speaker 2>it on par with inciting a mob? Well, it kind

0:51:53.080 --> 0:51:56.000
<v Speaker 2>of is. Yeah, I think it is inciting the mob,

0:51:56.080 --> 0:51:59.799
<v Speaker 2>but I think it's insite a mob and paying for

0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:01.279
<v Speaker 2>extra people on top.

0:52:02.080 --> 0:52:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's so, it's kay. I think it's probably closest

0:52:05.920 --> 0:52:19.080
<v Speaker 1>to the ship sandwich. Okay, but but I don't know

0:52:19.160 --> 0:52:25.719
<v Speaker 1>for sure. Delicious, Oh God, God, listen, we gotta go.

0:52:25.920 --> 0:52:30.080
<v Speaker 2>But so we're best friends now? Right? Are we best

0:52:30.120 --> 0:52:30.480
<v Speaker 2>friends now?

0:52:30.480 --> 0:52:33.760
<v Speaker 1>Because that was my interview for to become at least

0:52:34.120 --> 0:52:37.240
<v Speaker 1>a good friend, and I'm aiming for best friend slot.

0:52:37.440 --> 0:52:38.719
<v Speaker 2>But I'm out of New York right now.

0:52:38.760 --> 0:52:41.800
<v Speaker 1>I feel to actually get the coveted role of Hans's

0:52:41.840 --> 0:52:44.840
<v Speaker 1>best friend. It would have to be, which actually sounds

0:52:44.880 --> 0:52:48.719
<v Speaker 1>like a great show. Actually hands best friend. Oh that

0:52:48.880 --> 0:52:49.320
<v Speaker 1>is good.

0:52:49.920 --> 0:52:52.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I like Hans best friend. It's you.

0:52:53.080 --> 0:52:55.680
<v Speaker 1>It's your podcast and you talk to people that are

0:52:55.719 --> 0:52:57.759
<v Speaker 1>your friends, Hand's best friend.

0:52:57.960 --> 0:53:00.120
<v Speaker 2>That's a great idea. I think you should do it,

0:53:00.320 --> 0:53:04.120
<v Speaker 2>and please, if you do it, feel free to include

0:53:04.120 --> 0:53:09.520
<v Speaker 2>me financially, no, fantastic, no, no, feel feel free to

0:53:10.000 --> 0:53:13.800
<v Speaker 2>accept it with my with my this is illegally me

0:53:13.960 --> 0:53:16.560
<v Speaker 2>gifting it to you right now on this podcast. I

0:53:16.600 --> 0:53:21.719
<v Speaker 2>feel so touched and a good way, yeah, in all

0:53:21.760 --> 0:53:24.080
<v Speaker 2>the right ways. Well, listen the next time I'm in

0:53:24.120 --> 0:53:26.160
<v Speaker 2>New York, which I think will be fairly soon, Let's

0:53:26.160 --> 0:53:28.640
<v Speaker 2>get together and go somewhere great. Please.

0:53:28.640 --> 0:53:30.920
<v Speaker 1>I would love that so much. Yes, me too, I

0:53:31.280 --> 0:53:34.200
<v Speaker 1>really would. And keep doing what you're doing. You are

0:53:34.239 --> 0:53:37.360
<v Speaker 1>a force for good and high quality entertainment and a

0:53:37.400 --> 0:53:41.080
<v Speaker 1>world of in a giant shit sandwich, You're You're a

0:53:41.160 --> 0:53:44.160
<v Speaker 1>lovely raison of deliciousness.

0:53:44.360 --> 0:53:47.880
<v Speaker 2>Ah, sir, you make my day with these kind words

0:53:47.960 --> 0:53:52.200
<v Speaker 2>to your kindness, and I admire you so and thank

0:53:52.239 --> 0:53:54.600
<v Speaker 2>you for having me on your podcast. I've been a

0:53:54.600 --> 0:53:56.840
<v Speaker 2>fan for so long. This is such a this is

0:53:56.880 --> 0:53:57.680
<v Speaker 2>such a kick for me.

0:53:58.320 --> 0:54:02.120
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's it's, it's totally me so so thanks and

0:54:02.719 --> 0:54:05.160
<v Speaker 1>well and most speak So I look forward to all right,

0:54:05.320 --> 0:54:05.640
<v Speaker 1>all right,