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Speaker 1: Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck

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Speaker 1: Sexton Show podcast. Welcome back in play Travis Buck Sexton Show.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate all of you hanging out with us. We roll

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Speaker 1: through the third hour of the program. I hope all

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Speaker 1: of you are having fantastic Tuesday so far. Encourage you,

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Speaker 1: as always get out there and subscribe to the podcast

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Speaker 1: as during the holiday season there will be a lot

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Speaker 1: of travel going on and you may want to take

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Speaker 1: us with you wherever you go. You can also download

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Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app and you will be prepared as well there.

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Speaker 2: So, Buck, I wanted to react.

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Speaker 1: To what Andy McCarthy was saying, but let me give

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Speaker 1: you a little bit of a preview reminder. At the

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Speaker 1: bottom of this hour, we're going to be joined by

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Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson, who has launched his new network that will

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Speaker 1: carry many of his shows programming. We'll find out more

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Speaker 1: details about that. But let's not underrate when Andy McCarthy

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Speaker 1: just told us. Andy McCarthy not a we were saying

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Speaker 1: off the air, Andy's not a hyperbolic bomb thrower. He's

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Speaker 1: not one of these people who's running around saying, oh,

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Speaker 1: if this happens, then some crazy out outcome is going

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Speaker 1: to occur and the entire Republic is going to collapse.

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Speaker 1: That's not him. He's pretty reason pretty logical. He is

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Speaker 1: saying that if he thought that the most likely outcome

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Speaker 1: is that this trial is still going to happen on

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Speaker 1: March fourth, and that over the ensuing two and three

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Speaker 1: months of the trial, that at some point in May

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Speaker 1: or June, he thinks Donald Trump's going to be convicted

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Speaker 1: of a crime. And if that happens, because remember he's

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Speaker 1: got a jury that's.

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Speaker 2: Rigged against him.

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Speaker 1: In DC ninety whatever, three percent of DC residents voted

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Speaker 1: for Hillary Clinton and voted for Joe Biden, that if

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Speaker 1: that happens.

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Speaker 2: The general rule in federal courts.

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Speaker 1: Would be that the defendant is taken into custody pending

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Speaker 1: an appeal for sentencing.

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Speaker 2: This is all crazy. Now.

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Speaker 1: If I were giving advice buck to the Supreme Court,

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Speaker 1: and I understand that John Roberts is kind of a coward,

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Speaker 1: let's be honest, and he's deeply concerned with what the

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Speaker 1: public opinion is of the Court, and as a result,

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Speaker 1: he tries to avoid making too many revolutionary changes. If

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Speaker 1: that is the case, I don't understand how given that

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Speaker 1: you have five Conservatives, three liberals, and the chief Justice

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Speaker 1: who was an appointee of George W. Bush John Roberts,

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Speaker 1: six Republican appointed Supreme Court members. I don't understand why

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Speaker 1: you would expedite review at all. And if you did

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Speaker 1: allow this review, I don't understand why you wouldn't take

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Speaker 1: what I said yesterday, schedule an oral hearing an argument

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Speaker 1: for the end of April, and then release your ruling

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Speaker 1: at the end of June. Given the fact that you

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Speaker 1: would take a month or more, at least probably two

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Speaker 1: months to find a jury, there would be virtually no

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Speaker 1: way for this case to proceed, which would mean effectively

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Speaker 1: you would let the political process resolve itself. That's presuming

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Speaker 1: that you said this case could still go to trial,

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Speaker 1: by the way, that you're not tossing it out completely,

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Speaker 1: which I think legally would be justified personally, but then

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Speaker 1: you at least let the political process resolve itself. If

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Speaker 1: Trump wins, this case vanishes because either his attorney general

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Speaker 1: drops it or he pardons himself.

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Speaker 2: They would maybe both, And.

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Speaker 1: Then you're also letting the American voter basically render a verdict.

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Speaker 1: Do you or do you not believe that Trump is

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Speaker 1: a should be elected president of the United States. If

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Speaker 1: they expedite this, then they're allowing the courts to be

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Speaker 1: far more political than would otherwise have curve.

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Speaker 2: What am I missing here?

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Speaker 1: You have the ability to knock it out I understand

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Speaker 1: is if you're an institutionalist, the number one criticism is

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Speaker 1: going to be, Oh, put three of these Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: justices on the court, and then what did they do

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Speaker 1: when he needed the protection? They came out and said,

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Speaker 1: you can't be convicted of this crime because you have

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Speaker 1: the presidential powers to be able to act in the

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Speaker 1: manner and method in which you did. I understand why

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't want that, but I think you could avoid

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Speaker 1: that on some level. Even if you ruled that he

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Speaker 1: was prosecutable. You could just hear have the hearing at

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Speaker 1: the end of April, and then not release your opinion

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Speaker 1: until the end of June. And there's no way for

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Speaker 1: this case to get completed before the election takes place

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Speaker 1: in November.

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Speaker 3: Also, though it reminds me a bit, you know that

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Speaker 3: it's misattributed to Shakespeare, but it's actually from a Walter

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Speaker 3: Scott poem. Right, What a tangled web we weave? When first,

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Speaker 3: we practiced to deceive. You look at the Special Council

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Speaker 3: here and the initial decision to make this a political prosecution,

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Speaker 3: in which it inherently is yes, to hold it so

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Speaker 3: that it would coincide with the election, which now it

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Speaker 3: is doing, and to try to spread this out into

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Speaker 3: different jurisdictions and manipulate the legal system. The web is

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Speaker 3: getting very tangled here, and that he has to go

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Speaker 3: that the Special Council has to go to the Supreme

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Speaker 3: Court to try to keep this on a timeline that

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Speaker 3: was you know, I said this yesterday and Andy today.

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Speaker 3: He was on a plane yesterday so we couldn't join us,

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Speaker 3: but today was reiterating this point. Clay, there's no basis

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Speaker 3: for the Special Council to go to the Supreme Court

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Speaker 3: based on a fear that this may not get done

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Speaker 3: before the election. Yeah, that's not the way it's supposed

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Speaker 3: to work, right, It's supposed to play out as the process.

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Speaker 3: He is trying to lock an American citizen in prison

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Speaker 3: for alleged crimes. It's not supposed to be. We got

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Speaker 3: to get this done so that it hurts him in

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Speaker 3: the polls in time that he can't.

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Speaker 2: Win and pardon himself.

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Speaker 3: So the bad decision here, the root cause of all

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Speaker 3: of this is the rot at the base of the tree,

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Speaker 3: so to speak. It is exactly what Special Counsel Jacksmith

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Speaker 3: is doing here. He just keeps on having to chase

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Speaker 3: more politicize ends and do more damage to the legal

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Speaker 3: process as he goes along, or to our faith in the.

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Speaker 4: Legal system as he goes along.

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Speaker 2: Because what else, what else happens?

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Speaker 3: I mean, could you imagine if this thing gets delayed

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Speaker 3: and Trump wins and then ends up partnering himself. I mean,

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Speaker 3: what do you think Jack Smith's future in the law

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Speaker 3: is after that? It's not very bright.

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Speaker 1: That's why all of this is a mix of the

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Speaker 1: political and the legal, and that if I were sketching

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Speaker 1: out and I'm trying to think like Chief Justice John Roberts,

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Speaker 1: and let's pretend that he has some measure of power,

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Speaker 1: why not schedule the oral arguments for the end of April,

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Speaker 1: give this opinion at the end of at the end

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Speaker 1: of June.

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Speaker 2: He would know what the opinion is going to be.

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Speaker 1: Either they're going to toss it and say Trump acted

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Speaker 1: within the scope of his powers, there is no criminal

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Speaker 1: offense here, or which by the way, you know that

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Speaker 1: the three liberal appointees, the three Democrat appointees are not

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Speaker 1: going to say that. So is there in any way

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Speaker 1: a majority that would say Trump should be tried? I

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Speaker 1: thought the other most interesting thing about Andy McCarthy's aspect

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Speaker 1: is maybe there are some people who don't want this

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Speaker 1: case in front of the Supreme Court if Trump is

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Speaker 1: the one asking for it. But did Jack Smith create

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Speaker 1: a mess for himself by basically allowing the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: to take this case at his requests. That's really fascinating

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Speaker 1: strategically too, because if Trump's begging for the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: to save him from the DC Court of Appeals, which

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Speaker 1: is very likely I think, to rule in favor of

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Speaker 1: Jack Smith and say these are prosecutable offenses.

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Speaker 2: Now he's the one saying.

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court, can you please look at this, which I

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Speaker 1: think to an institutionalist would feel different. So, but why

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Speaker 1: even get yourself in meshed in this when there's a

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Speaker 1: clear calendar situation where you can just keep this from

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Speaker 1: happening and then let it be decided by the voters.

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Speaker 3: It is because this is a politically driven exercise, not

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Speaker 3: a law and justice driven I.

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Speaker 2: Think it's a mix for the Supreme Court analysis.

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Speaker 3: Well, okay, but I'm just saying the way that Jack

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Speaker 3: Smith is trying to manipulate the process is driven entirely

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Speaker 3: by politics. This is I agree with that there's no

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Speaker 3: reason to try to expedite this other than the looming election.

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Speaker 2: Correct.

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Speaker 3: And the only reason the looming election is such a

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Speaker 3: problem is because they sat on this for three years

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Speaker 3: to make it happen in the they want to get

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Speaker 3: him in the election year after he's been Republican nominee,

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Speaker 3: before the American people can cast their votes. I mean,

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Speaker 3: he's actually trying to thread the needle here in terms

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Speaker 3: of the timing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's it.

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Speaker 1: Is a direct attack on democracy. Yeah, direct of the

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Speaker 1: lights of which would never see. Which is why I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: if I'm in the Supreme Court, if I were Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court Justice Klay Travis, which terrifies a lot of people

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Speaker 1: out there to even contemplate that, I would not aid

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Speaker 1: in a bet what Jack Smith is doing at all.

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Speaker 1: I would try to engage in a process that would

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Speaker 1: keep the Court from making a full on decision because

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Speaker 1: it's now political, because they put the Court in a

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Speaker 1: political decision whereby you use.

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Speaker 3: The calendar to actually run out the clock. But what

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Speaker 3: you would do and what I would do is irrelevant, right.

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Speaker 3: What matters is what the nine people that are going

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Speaker 3: to be in this position and their particular proclivities and

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Speaker 3: how they think this will play out for the country.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's very unlikely that they're going to

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Speaker 3: swoop in. In my mind, even though I think would

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Speaker 3: be the just I kind of agree with Andy on this.

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Speaker 3: The just thing would be to say this is this

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Speaker 3: is wrong, and we're gonna, you know, the immunity that

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Speaker 3: that Trump's people are saying he has under circumstances, We're

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Speaker 3: going to support that claim, even if on legal on

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Speaker 3: a legal level that may be shaky. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: think it's there, but it's shaky. To do this in

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Speaker 3: an election year is grotesque and everyone knows it. I

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Speaker 3: think it's why Trump has been surging so much in

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Speaker 3: the polls. But beyond that claim, no matter who loses

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Speaker 3: or wins here, you've they have guaranteed that there will

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Speaker 3: be sore loserism, depending on your perspective about this election,

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Speaker 3: because if Donald Trump wins, if Donald Trump wins, they're

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Speaker 3: going to you know, after let's say the Supreme Court

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Speaker 3: weighs in here in any case, right comes in and says,

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Speaker 3: if Trump wins, they're going to say, well, the Supreme

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Speaker 3: Court that he appointed, you know, two justices too, saved

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Speaker 3: him in it, and it's unfair and he's illegitimate. And

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Speaker 3: if Biden wins, I think Trump voters are going to

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Speaker 3: rightly say, this whole thing has been tainted from really

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Speaker 3: the get go by this effort to use the courts

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Speaker 3: as a weapon of politics in the most obvious way.

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Speaker 2: So there's no way around it now.

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Speaker 1: Which is why I think the best decision the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court could make again balancing the political and the legal,

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Speaker 1: is to say, maybe by a five to four decision,

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Speaker 1: Trump can be prosecuted, But don't give that opinion until

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Speaker 1: it basically makes it impossible for the prosecution to occur,

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Speaker 1: because then you can say, well, the Supreme Court didn't

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Speaker 1: bend to Donald Trump, but simultaneously they also didn't allow

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Speaker 1: Jack Smith to force through, along with Judge Chuckkin, a

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Speaker 1: kangaroo attack upon democracy, kangaroo court attack upon democracy. I

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Speaker 1: think that's threading the needle from the Supreme Court perspective,

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Speaker 1: which is why I don't understand at all why they

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Speaker 1: would agree to expedite any ruling, Because if they expedite

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Speaker 1: a ruling at all other than tossing it, which I

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Speaker 1: think the law would allow.

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Speaker 2: Them to do and say you can can't prosecute Trump

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Speaker 2: at all.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise they're just basically acting at the behest of Jack

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Speaker 1: Smith and actually making things worse for everyone who cares

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Speaker 1: about an actually free and fair election.

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Speaker 3: That this is starting to be a little bit like

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Speaker 3: two thousands hanging Chad's recounts, not in terms of the

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Speaker 3: legal realities of it, but in terms of the perception

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Speaker 3: that the Supreme Court is going to be making a

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Speaker 3: call here one way or the other that is likely

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Speaker 3: to determine the outcome of this election in some capacity,

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Speaker 3: perhaps wholesale. Yeah, there's no way around it, right, So

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Speaker 3: the Supreme Court's weighing in a way that it really

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Speaker 3: shouldn't have to, but is going to. And this is

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Speaker 3: why a political hit like this in an election year

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Speaker 3: is so damaging. No matter what one thinks of Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump or all the rest of it. I just think

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Speaker 3: it's you know, we have acrossed the point of no

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Speaker 3: return on this one, now, you know what I mean? Clay,

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Speaker 3: Like even if they do the most elegant solution that

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Speaker 3: you can come up with, and we could sit here

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Speaker 3: and talk about there will be a large section of

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Speaker 3: the country that thinks it's it's the Supreme Court saved Trump,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, It's they bailed him out again.

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Speaker 2: It's crazy.

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Speaker 1: But this is yes where we're and that's why that

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Speaker 1: little twinting of hey, we're going to just let the

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Speaker 1: clock calendar play out before this can all happen is

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Speaker 1: probably the best way for somebody like John Roberts, who

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Speaker 1: cares about institutional legitimacy, to thread a needle when he's

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Speaker 1: being put in a really difficult position.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what do you think legal minds out there? Eight

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Speaker 3: hundred two ay two to two eight a two. You know,

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Speaker 3: this holiday season, I want you to keep in mind

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Speaker 3: organizations that are doing good work and who are deserving

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Speaker 3: of our recognition and our support. The pro life community

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Speaker 3: has its handsful these days. It's on us to try

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Speaker 3: to save as many lives as possible because so many

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Speaker 3: states still have extreme abortion laws on the books, and

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Speaker 3: the abortion lobby is still pushing as hard as it

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Speaker 3: can to keep the number of abortions high. But we

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Speaker 3: can save lives every day. We don't have to wait

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Speaker 3: for the laws to change in these states. That's a

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Speaker 3: long term process. We can save lives today with the

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Speaker 3: Preborn Network of Clinics. They establish clinics and communities where

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Speaker 3: abortions are often occurring, and they present pregnant mothers with

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Speaker 3: a choice between abortion and life. They do this primarily,

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Speaker 3: though not exclusively, through free ultrasounds so that the mother

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Speaker 3: can meet her child and make an informed decision. Preborn

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Speaker 3: doesn't receive any federal funds, not a dime, so it

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Speaker 3: relies on the pro life community. You and me, would

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Speaker 3: you consider a leadership gift to save babies in a

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Speaker 3: big way? Your tax deductible donation of five thousand dollars,

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Speaker 3: that's what a leadership gift would be. I know there's

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Speaker 3: someone out there right now in this country listening to

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Speaker 3: this who can do a leadership gift. Maybe there's a

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Speaker 3: handful of people. Remember this is tax deductible, and your

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Speaker 3: thousand dollars would sponsor Preborn's entire network for twenty four hours,

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Speaker 3: which could help save two hundred babies lives. To donate,

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Speaker 3: use yourself phone and dial pound two fifty say the

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Speaker 3: keyword baby. That's pound two five zero say baby. Or

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Speaker 3: donate securely at preborn dot com slash buck that's preborn

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent charity rating, so you can give with confidence.

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Speaker 3: Sponsored by Preborn.

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Speaker 5: From the front lines of Truth, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back, team.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna be joined here in a few minutes by

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Speaker 3: Chucker Carlson. Be Clay, Tuck and Buck all having a

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Speaker 3: chat here about his his new network.

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Speaker 2: That sounds like a really like not very safe video.

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Speaker 3: Just telling you the names of the folks in the conversation, Sir,

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Speaker 3: I think it's the same name you use a son

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Speaker 3: named Buck.

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Speaker 4: By the way, Small World, I did none.

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Speaker 1: Of that, but yeah, the Clay Tucking Buck does not

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Speaker 1: sound like something that would be very safe to google.

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Speaker 2: I'll just I'll just talk.

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Speaker 3: To any We're gonna have a very interesting and so

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Speaker 3: frightful conversation about America life and politics and also his

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Speaker 3: new network, Tucker Carlson Network, which is going to be

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00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,880
Speaker 3: or has longfe I should say, and he can tell

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Speaker 3: us all about what he has going on there, so

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Speaker 3: you know, there's some interesting, interesting things afoot. We also

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Speaker 3: have some calls. Clay, who's up on the board right now?

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Speaker 1: Pick one dealers, Yeah, let's go with Let's go with

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Speaker 1: Kevin and Illinois.

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Speaker 2: What you got for us? Kevin, Well, I.

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Speaker 6: Think you guys are missing something. The reason Smith is

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Speaker 6: forcing this Supreme Court there are three Trump appointed judges.

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Speaker 6: You think he's not going to scream for one or

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Speaker 6: all three to recuse themselves.

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Speaker 1: I thank you for the call. I think certainly you

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Speaker 1: could argue for that. I think the chances of that happen, Yes,

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Speaker 1: they will not so and I don't even think there's

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Speaker 1: precedent to suggest that the Supreme Court justice should have

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Speaker 1: to recuse him or herself because of the president that

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Speaker 1: appointed them, because that is issue for you know, eventually Obama.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, if Obama appointed somebody to the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court and then the federal government was on the

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Speaker 1: other side of an issue before the court, you know,

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Speaker 1: the executive branch, you're not expecting that person to It's

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Speaker 1: usually if they represent it in private practice or there's

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Speaker 1: some specific Now what they'll try to say is, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is why I think they've gone after Clarence Thomas's

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Speaker 1: wife because they'll try to say, oh, because of what

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Speaker 1: Jenny Thomas has done in her private life, that means

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Speaker 1: that Clarence Thomas cannot sit on this case. Certainly they

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Speaker 1: try to make those arguments. I think that has a

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Speaker 1: zero percent chance of.

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Speaker 3: It's also, you know, it's like the guy says in

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Speaker 3: Pirates of the Caribbean, it's really more of a guideline

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Speaker 3: than a ruler.

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Speaker 1: Yes, oh, that's a great series, by the way, but

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Speaker 1: at least when they still had Johnny Deppennitt. When you

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Speaker 1: buy gas, groceries or get a middle of a restaurant,

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Speaker 1: last thing you're thinking is you'll get cash back from

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Speaker 1: your purchase. But that's exactly what the Upside app does,

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Speaker 1: actual cash back from every one of those purchases. It's

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Speaker 1: a smart idea Upside app, free in your app Store,

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Speaker 1: partnered with tens of thousands of gas stations, grocery stores,

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00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,320
Speaker 1: restaurants to give you cash back when you buy from them.

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Speaker 1: It all happens in the app. You get started by

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00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,600
Speaker 1: downloading the free Upside app. Go do that today Upside app.

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00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,040
Speaker 1: It takes you all of two minutes set up an account.

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00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 1: Every time you're on your way to fill up with gas,

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Speaker 1: go to the store. You can check out the app

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Speaker 1: to see where the savings are. You can say forty

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Speaker 1: or fifty cents a gallon, thirteen percent or more off

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Speaker 1: at grocery stores, and over the course of a year,

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Speaker 1: it's really easy to get hundreds of dollars or more back.

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Speaker 1: In comparison to credit card rewards, you can earn three

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Speaker 1: x download the free Upside app.

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Speaker 2: Use our names Clay and Buck.

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Speaker 1: When you do get hooked up with twenty five cents

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Speaker 1: back for every gallon in gas in your first tank.

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Speaker 1: That's Upside App. Use our names Clay and Buck. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back in play, Travis Buck Sexton Show.

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Speaker 2: Appreciate all of you hanging out with us.

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Speaker 1: Join now by t Carlson, who has got a brand

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Speaker 1: new business that he is launching. I believe it launched yesterday.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that many of you have already checked it out. Tucker,

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Speaker 1: thanks for coming on the show. Let us know what

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Speaker 1: you got cooking, what's what's the new business and how's

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Speaker 1: it going to be set up?

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Speaker 5: Gentlemen, thank you for having me. Well, it's his streaming

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Speaker 5: service and the point I'm not a business person, but

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Speaker 5: I am a free speech person, and the point is

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Speaker 5: to protect speech from advertising boycotts and pressure from corporations.

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Speaker 5: And think, really the only way to do that is

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Speaker 5: to build a subscription service where people, you know, pay

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Speaker 5: for some percentage of the content that they watch. And

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Speaker 5: then you're you're a fortress. There's no one can shut

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Speaker 5: you up at that point. And that's a conclusion that

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Speaker 5: I've come to after you know, a lot of years

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Speaker 5: of doing this and having been shut up a few

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Speaker 5: times through advertiser boycotts or corporate pressure, whatever it happens.

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Speaker 5: But I think, going particularly into this next twelve months,

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Speaker 5: you know, you're gonna need outlets that can't be shut up.

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Speaker 4: You literally can't make them be quiet, and.

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Speaker 5: Not that you know, you don't have to watch if

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Speaker 5: you don't want, You don't have to listen if you

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Speaker 5: don't want, But if you do want information that's honest

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Speaker 5: and that's not being controlled or edited by people with interests,

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Speaker 5: they're not disclosing, you know, it's really important to have that,

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Speaker 5: especially in an election here.

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Speaker 4: So that's what we're building.

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Speaker 3: Hey tuckers Buck, you know I see that Elon. Of

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Speaker 3: course now that he is for free speech. The left

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Speaker 3: has decided that he's like public Enemy number one, even

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Speaker 3: though he's arguably doing more for you know, the issue

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Speaker 3: of climate change and clean energy and all this than

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Speaker 3: any other human being in history. They don't care. They

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Speaker 3: hate him because he's for free speech. Is what you're

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Speaker 3: doing really enabled or even just made possible because X

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Speaker 3: exists at this point as a place, because I mean,

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Speaker 3: I don't even people ask me.

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Speaker 2: I don't even bother.

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Speaker 3: Posting really on Facebook or these things anymore. You know,

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Speaker 3: people can post for me sometimes, but they're not free

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Speaker 3: speech places at all. So it was X kind of

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Speaker 3: a critical ingredient in the plan. And how does Elon's

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Speaker 3: vision and your vision? How do they intersect?

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Speaker 4: Are you kidding? I mean yes?

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Speaker 5: And by the way, I mean Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. I

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Speaker 5: mean you can reach a big audience with any of these.

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Speaker 5: YouTube mister Beast does. Mister Beast is the biggest creator

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Speaker 5: on YouTube, and he is because he never crosses any lines.

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Speaker 4: I'm not attacking the guy. He does something very different.

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Speaker 5: But no one with political views that are out of

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Speaker 5: sync with the you know, three percent of the population.

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Speaker 4: His views are imposed on the rest of us.

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Speaker 5: No one could exist on any of those platforms.

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Speaker 4: Telling the truth, period. So it's not You're right, it's

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Speaker 4: not even worth it.

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Speaker 5: X is the only big media platform in the world

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Speaker 5: that has free speech. There's only one left, and that's

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Speaker 5: because of Elon, you know, whatever you think of him.

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Speaker 5: And he was, you know, after my kids, was the

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Speaker 5: first person to call.

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Speaker 4: Me after our show got canceled.

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Speaker 5: And you know, he didn't offer me money or to

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Speaker 5: hire me, but he just said, I want you to

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Speaker 5: know that we have this platform or commitment to free

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Speaker 5: speech is real and invite you on. And we took

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Speaker 5: them up on it, just as anyone else could. We

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Speaker 5: didn't get a special deal, and I've been grateful for

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Speaker 5: it ever since. I mean, we've made precisely zero money.

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Speaker 4: But I don't really care, you know.

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Speaker 5: I just there's a lot going on and I wanted

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Speaker 5: to continue to talk about it and to you know,

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Speaker 5: interview people and go around the world and talk to

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Speaker 5: people saying interesting things and record interesting developments. And I

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Speaker 5: can't stand the idea of being silenced. I don't think

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Speaker 5: any Americans should stand for that. I mean, it's actually

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Speaker 5: I mean, I try to work myself into a frenzy.

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Speaker 4: But it's pretty unbelievable.

439
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 5: That everybody I know in this country all born here,

440
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,120
Speaker 5: all Americans by birth, committed to staying here.

441
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 4: They can have a conversation.

442
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 5: You're afraid to talk to people about controversial quote controversial

443
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,880
Speaker 5: things over your phone because you know it's being monitored

444
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 5: or could be. Even with the phone in the room,

445
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 5: you know they can use it to listen to you.

446
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 5: Who's they the government and not just our government, other governments.

447
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 5: So the whole thing is like so crazy, it's gotten

448
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 5: so North Korean where everybody is afraid to think.

449
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 2: That.

450
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 5: Anything I can do and my staff from Fox and

451
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 5: we brought most of.

452
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 4: Our staff with us. I'm grateful for that, very grateful

453
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 4: for that.

454
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 5: But anything we can do to add, you know, to

455
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 5: a conversation that's real, that's not defined by lying, we're

456
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 5: gonna do.

457
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 1: And that's what we're doing. We're talking to Tucker Carlson.

458
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: I know you have already been asked about this, but

459
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 1: let me just make my pitch here. If Trump came

460
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,679
Speaker 1: to me and he said, Clay, I want you to

461
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: tell me who I should pick as vice president, my

462
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 1: answer is you, And my answer is you because I

463
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 1: think you can communicate what Trump is often trying to

464
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 1: say and sometimes getting attacked and not being able to

465
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 1: be the best defender of his perspective. And that's not

466
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: a shot at Trump. It's just more of a compliment

467
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 1: for you. I think you would be the most effective

468
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: vice president that he could possibly pick. And I told

469
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 1: him this, you heard it. I said it on the

470
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: radio directly to him. He responded, said he was going

471
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: to consider you. So if Trump really came to you, Tucker,

472
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: and if he said I think that in order to

473
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 1: win and run the best version of a campaign in

474
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, you are my guy. Are you really

475
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: telling me you would say, can't do it.

476
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 4: Well? All the same three things?

477
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:30,360
Speaker 2: One.

478
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 4: The only reason I'm being asked about it at all

479
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 4: is because you brought it up.

480
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: You're welcome.

481
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 4: You're welcome.

482
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 3: I love putting that out to people. By the way, like,

483
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 3: what do you think about Tucker for VP? And I'm like, well,

484
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 3: we kind of started that whole thing, so I think

485
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 3: you know.

486
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: But by the way, before you finish your answer, you

487
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: can come back to your three partner here Milangna. To

488
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: be fair, Axios had a report which I'm sure you

489
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: saw where Milania Trump said it should be Tucker. Now,

490
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 1: whether that's true or not, but Trump does listen to

491
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: his wife, I think, and I said this on the

492
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 1: show earlier this week. I think he blamed her for

493
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: his endorsement of Doctor Oz, which is very funny. So

494
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: at the event it didn't go well, he might blame

495
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: her if you were the pick. But how would you respond,

496
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: Trump says, I need you, You're my guy. We're going

497
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: to win. Otherwise I'm concerned nobody else can do what

498
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: you can do. You would respond, how.

499
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 4: Well?

500
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 5: I would just say, first that that only proves that

501
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 5: Millennia listens to your show, which is pretty flattering, I

502
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 5: think so. Second, I would say I am in sync

503
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 5: with Donald Trump's some big ideas. You know, I definitely

504
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 5: was not in sync with some of.

505
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 4: His staff choices at all.

506
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 5: But the idea is that he ran on, you know,

507
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 5: have a secure border, a trade policy that helps your

508
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 5: own country, maybe fight fewer pointless wars, right, I mean,

509
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 5: it's not complicated. That's an extremely moderate, sensible, middle of

510
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 5: the road, non ideological platform, and the only reason that

511
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 5: most people don't recognize that is because of the torrents

512
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 5: of propaganda that have distorted it, And.

513
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 4: So I think if you say those.

514
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 5: Things slowly, calmly, you know, this is your captain's speaking

515
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 5: voice that people can hear. It's hard to believe that

516
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 5: anybody could be opposed to that fight. Fewer pointless wars

517
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 5: like what is the point of NATO or just like,

518
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 5: we can have discussions about these things, but I think

519
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 5: common sense will prevail if we do it in a calmway.

520
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 4: That's my personal view.

521
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 5: As for my role in that, I mean, I'm like

522
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 5: pretty happy with what I'm doing. I can't imagine being

523
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 5: in politics. Honestly, I don't like the people in politics.

524
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 4: I like Trump.

525
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 5: I think he's hilarious, he's fun to be with. He

526
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 5: actually cares about the country and cares about people. That's real,

527
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 5: I've seen it. But you know, most people in politics,

528
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 5: and particularly the consultant class. I mean, I've spent my

529
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 5: whole life around them, covering campaigns and living in Washington,

530
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 5: and like, not one of them has ever been to

531
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 5: my house for dinner. You know, I'd like the homeless

532
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 5: to my house for dinner.

533
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 4: Everyone can come to my house for dinner, except political people.

534
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 5: They just can't because they're too fake, and I just

535
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,479
Speaker 5: can't deal with that. So the idea of being around

536
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,959
Speaker 5: fake people, even for a meal, much less a career,

537
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 5: is like horrifying to me.

538
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 4: So I mean, I don't know.

539
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 5: I guess I would assess it if that incredibly unlikely

540
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 5: thing happened to me and I felt like there was

541
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 5: something I could contribute.

542
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 4: And the last thing I'll say is I don't like

543
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 4: people who seek power. I don't and I never have.

544
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 5: And I also like, I also don't like people whose

545
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:24,400
Speaker 5: like goal is.

546
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 4: To become rich.

547
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 5: I don't like that either, And I know those are

548
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 5: unpopular views, but I mean it, and I'm just going

549
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 5: to say it because I don't care anymore. I just

550
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 5: don't like if you want a lot of power over me,

551
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 5: you should not have power over me.

552
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 4: That's how I feel.

553
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 5: And if your goal in life is to have more

554
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 5: money than you can spend, and you discussed me, that's

555
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 5: called greed. It's like eating more food than you can digest,

556
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 5: which is gluttony.

557
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 4: It's just gross.

558
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 5: And so though I mean, those are just not you

559
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 5: know what I mean, Like, if you get rich in

560
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 5: the process, that's great, but if you get powerful in

561
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 5: the process, because people you know, want your leadership.

562
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 4: I get it. That's a byproduct, though, that's not a goal.

563
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 5: And politics draws a lot of people who want to

564
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 5: be rich and famous and powerful for the sake of

565
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 5: being rich and famous and powerful, and.

566
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 4: That's just like absolutely repugnant to me. Sorry, frankly, Clay.

567
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 3: A lot of people are talking probably about Tucker as VP,

568
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 3: the best, great VP, really wonderful.

569
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,239
Speaker 2: We'll talk about it. We can get into some other

570
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 2: stuff too here quick.

571
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: By the way, that whole answer, Tucker just solidified for

572
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 1: me why you should be the pig you just you

573
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 1: just you just come on, Clay is a dog with

574
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: a bone, Tucker, you gotta know something would have me.

575
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 3: Oh, then you should have heard on the Mike Pens interview.

576
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 3: If you don't answer a question for Clay, he never

577
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 3: lets it go.

578
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 2: So that was the perfect answer.

579
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: That's the answer I would want Trump's VP to give.

580
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 2: When we come back, Tucker's gonna stick with us. We'll

581
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 2: close out the show.

582
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: We'll get in with some more questions, probably m I

583
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: T Harvard Penn what happened there? Uh? And where does

584
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: he see things going in twenty twenty four? As we

585
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: progress in the meantime right now, you know, oh, we've

586
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: got a huge lack.

587
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 2: Of testosterone in this country.

588
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: In fact, fifty percent lower testosterone right now, which is

589
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: pretty wild to think about. You have if you are

590
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: a guy in our country, then your grandfather and your

591
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: great grandfather may well have had. They can't even figure

592
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: out exactly why testosterone is plumbting. But all you have

593
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: to do is look at who's in sixteen hundred Pennsylvania

594
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: right now and all of his male advisors, and think

595
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: to yourself. Having the least testosterone laden white house in

596
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: our history for all the men that are there, is

597
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: not making us stronger. And if you're out there right

598
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: now and it's a holiday season and you're looking for

599
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: more of them, bigger and vitality, maybe maybe I bet

600
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: you're listening to me right now. I bet there's a

601
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: lot of you that have holiday obligations this evening and

602
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: you're already dreading it. You don't want to go to

603
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: that company Christmas party. You don't want to go to

604
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: that event socially that you're obligated to go to, cause

605
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: you're just tired.

606
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 2: It's coming up on the end of the year.

607
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: You've been working hard, how about getting some all natural

608
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: testosterone back in your body. That's what the Chalkmail Vitality

609
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Speaker 1: Stack is all about. Leading ingredient proven in three months

610
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Speaker 1: time to win increase your natural testosterone by twenty percent.

611
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 2: You lose testosterone as you get older. That's normal.

612
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: That's one reason why so many men start to feel

613
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: so much tirer. You can get hooked up today if

614
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: you go to chalk dot com. That's choq dot com.

615
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Speaker 1: Use my name Clay Clay. You can save thirty five

616
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617
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Speaker 1: Clay Clay is the promo code. Go check it out today.

618
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Speaker 1: Choq Put some Testosterone back in your life.

619
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 2: Heard it on the show here.

620
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: More on the podcast Clay and Buck podcast Deep Dives.

621
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: More content, more common sense. Find the guys on the iHeart.

622
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 4: App or wherever you get your podcast.

623
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 3: Welcome back to Clay en Buck. Final segment of the day,

624
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 3: and it's a doozy. We've got our friend Tucker Carlson here.

625
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 3: He just launched the Tucker Carlson Network. Go sign up,

626
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 3: Go subscribe. Uh Tucker switching gears here on the topics

627
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 3: for a second, beyond the possibility of like a VP

628
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 3: and Tucker administration of the future administrations. The president of

629
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 3: Harvard is not losing her job. I think it's interesting

630
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 3: to see who was surprised by this on the right

631
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 3: and who wasn't. I was not surprised. I'm sure you

632
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 3: were not surprised. But what does this tell us, if anything.

633
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, it tells you that DEI is a religion.

634
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 5: Of course, she's a holy person. And it also tells

635
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 5: you that not just Harvard, which is the you know,

636
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 5: obviously the pinnacle of our higher education system, but the

637
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 5: entire system is a joke. Because the worst thing about

638
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 5: Gay is not that she's an open bigot, which she

639
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 5: is and has always been, but that she's an idiot.

640
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 5: I mean, she's a scholar who goes by the term

641
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 5: doctor though she can't take out your appendix, who's never

642
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 5: written a book. So I'm a hacked journalist. I've written

643
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 5: a bunch of books. I wrote it myself, because I

644
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 5: don't know, I like to read books.

645
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 2: I wrote books.

646
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 5: She's a scholar if you look at her scholarship, she's

647
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,239
Speaker 5: a professor of African American studies or somebody's not even

648
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 5: a real discipline, and she's produced no real academic work.

649
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 5: So like in the end, leaving inside the demonstrations and

650
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 5: even the question of free.

651
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 4: Speech, higher education is about education. And if the.

652
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 5: Top scholar university can't even be bothered or is not

653
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 5: even capable of writing a single book, you're a joke.

654
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 4: And everyone has known that. The overseers of Harvard have

655
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 4: known that.

656
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 5: All the people who are paying close attention to the school,

657
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 5: which is a lot of people, probably too much attention

658
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 5: to the school, have known that, and no one said

659
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 5: a word about it. And it's like, how was this

660
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 5: allted to? How'd you get a dumb person running Harvard?

661
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 5: And with this Larry Summers, who is a very abrasive,

662
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 5: difficult person who I have a lot of trouble talking

663
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 5: to you because he's so annoying. At least he's indisputably

664
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 5: a scholar. He's smart, you know what I mean?

665
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt. We talked about that earlier.

666
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: I mean he got in trouble for saying something that

667
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: is a fact, which is men tend to be better

668
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: at math and women tend to be better at verbal

669
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: related skills. Like that's not an attack upon biology, that's

670
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: just the reality. And yet you got this woman who

671
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: is plagiarizing and is blatantly, you know, not supportive of

672
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: free speech for anyone that has a different opinion than her.

673
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: And that leads me into this question, Tucker, are you

674
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: you've been in media for most of your adult life?

675
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,719
Speaker 2: Are you pessimistic or every.

676
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 4: Day of my adult life?

677
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 2: There you go?

678
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: Are you pessimistic or optimistic? With the trend lines that

679
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: you see for media as we begin the twenty twenty

680
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: four presidential campaign? And I don't just mean over the

681
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: next ten months, I mean with what you see on

682
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: the larger landscape, how would you assess where we are

683
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: right now, not only as a nation, but also as

684
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,959
Speaker 1: a world in terms of freedom of speech and the

685
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: status of media in general.

686
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, this is like not the first media

687
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 5: earthquake I've seen. When I got into the media business

688
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 5: over thirty years ago, I was a fact checker. That

689
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 5: was my first job, and I literally called people on

690
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 5: the phone to check facts and then I looked them

691
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 5: up in a bunch of bound volumes in my office. Okay,

692
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 5: the Internet exists, but we did not take it seriously

693
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 5: when I started. I never used a computer, not one

694
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 5: time when I started work as a journalist. Okay, So

695
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 5: now we're at the end of the era that began then,

696
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 5: which was the era of you know, centralized big media outlets,

697
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 5: and they're dying and it's unmistakable. Their death is unmistakable

698
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 5: if you take three steps back, and they're being replaced

699
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 5: by independent voices who by definition are much harder to control.

700
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 5: And that's where the balance of the audience is moving.

701
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 5: Streaming is not just like something you do on the side.

702
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 5: Streaming is the media now. And so yeah, I mean

703
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 5: in five years, you know, will NBC News exist. No,

704
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 5: it won't in its current form. It will not exist

705
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 5: none of these places as well. And so I think

706
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 5: that's good news because they couldn't be worse than they

707
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 5: are now for one, and for another, they really are

708
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 5: being replaced by I mean, I was looking up somebody's

709
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 5: guy I know in the mainstream media business who now

710
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 5: has an independent podcast.

711
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 4: I won't name him. I'm sure you know him, and

712
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 4: he's like.

713
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 5: Gone off to do this weird thing whatever he's doing.

714
00:34:58,239 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 5: I look at the numbers that he's getting on YouTube.

715
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 4: They're crazy. He's gonna like a million viewers a video.

716
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 5: And this is just some random guy who's doing this

717
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 5: out of his house, and so, yes, everything is changing

718
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 5: right before us. It's hard to see us outlines because

719
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 5: we're in the middle of it. But I think it's

720
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 5: a great thing. Great more people listen to you guys,

721
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 5: and to Russell Brand and Jimmy dor and people who

722
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 5: like I wasn't even that familiar with ten years ago,

723
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,359
Speaker 5: if at all, then pay attention to the Today Show.

724
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 3: That's real, Tucker. It's a little little uplifting here at

725
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 3: the end of the show. And I guess I'm possibly

726
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 3: taking even the wrong direction. But what happens if they

727
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 3: throw Trump into prison or house arrest or something. We

728
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 3: just said Ady McCarthy on he was talking to us

729
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 3: about this possibility, and he thinks it's a very real one.

730
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think any maybe for it. But leaving aside that,

731
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 5: you know, I think, I mean, the people I don't know.

732
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 4: I don't know the answer. I'm just throwing that out there.

733
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 5: It seems that way, But you know, the same people

734
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 5: lects for us about the democracy are about to short

735
00:35:59,360 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 5: circuit it.

736
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 4: I mean, just keep in mind that the things that Trump.

737
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 5: Is being charged for are ridiculous, like they're non the

738
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 5: whole thing.

739
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 4: Is bs okay. So the fact they're trying.

740
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 5: To imprison this guy who is the unequivocal front runner

741
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 5: in the presidential race running against a senile man who's

742
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 5: wrecked the country.

743
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 4: I mean, the whole thing is grotesque. And again we're

744
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 4: two in the weeds.

745
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 2: Step back.

746
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:20,919
Speaker 4: This is crazy town.

747
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 5: And if they do that, then it's just like a

748
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 5: shutdown of our historic you know, two hundred and fifty

749
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 5: year old democracy. That's what we're looking at. And I

750
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,439
Speaker 5: don't know what the response to that will be. I

751
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 5: hope it's very forceful. It needs to be, because if

752
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 5: that is allowed, then you know, all bets are off.

753
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 5: The Bill of Rights means nothing, no more elections, Like,

754
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 5: how can you.

755
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 4: Have an election after that?

756
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 5: You imprison the guy who's going to run the race

757
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 5: for bringing documents home when the incumbent president did the

758
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 5: same thing.

759
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: Is just promise? Is that the inauguration ball. We're close

760
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: to the alcohol