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Speaker 1: When you're excited about a project, when you feel alive

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Speaker 1: and energized, then time is a much different experience than

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Speaker 1: when you're bored. So you can create your relationship to time. Right,

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Speaker 1: so I'm not ready, Well, there's a strategy for that.

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Speaker 1: You should always take action a little bit before you

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Speaker 1: were ready, is the advice I give. Several months before

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Speaker 1: you're ready, go ahead and do it. Try it, because

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Speaker 1: you're going to rise to the occasion.

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Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one

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Speaker 2: health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every

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Speaker 2: single one of you who come back every week to listen,

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Speaker 2: learn and grow. Now you know that the podcast is

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Speaker 2: just an excuse for me to reach out to amazing people,

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Speaker 2: incredible minds, and the people that I want to sit

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Speaker 2: down with the most and pick their brain. And today's

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Speaker 2: guest is someone that I've wanted to do that with

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Speaker 2: for long long time. I remember reading his books years ago.

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Speaker 2: We've been in touch for quite some time to try

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Speaker 2: and get this scheduled, and today I'm so grateful because

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Speaker 2: he's made the effort to be here physically present with

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Speaker 2: us in the studio. He's none other than Robert Green,

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Speaker 2: the author of some of my favorite books. We have

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Speaker 2: The Laws of Human Nature, his new book that's out

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Speaker 2: right now called The Daily Laws. I highly recommend that

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Speaker 2: you go and grab your copy, and of course the

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Speaker 2: greatest one of all time, in my opinion, the forty

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Speaker 2: eight Laws of Power. So we're going to be diving

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Speaker 2: into these three books today, and Robert himself and I

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Speaker 2: hope that you'll all be making notes. This is one

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Speaker 2: that you want your notebook out for. It's one that

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Speaker 2: you want to get your pen and pencil out for.

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Speaker 2: And I'm so grateful, Robert, thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: being here.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. Jane, my pleasure.

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Speaker 2: No, it's an honor to have you here. Honestly, I've

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Speaker 2: been looking forward to it me too, me too. So

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'll tell everyone the story. Me and Robert

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Speaker 2: were about to record three or four months back, and

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Speaker 2: we both had a friendly conversation and I think you

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Speaker 2: were asking me where I live, and I was saying

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Speaker 2: I live in LA and I live in Hollywood, and

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Speaker 2: you were saying you live in Lost Feelers and we

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Speaker 2: were like, well, we were like fifteen minutes away, and

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Speaker 2: so we said, let's do it in person. And I'm

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Speaker 2: so happy that we made that possible and all the

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Speaker 2: effort you took to be here, So thank you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my pleasure.

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Speaker 1: I love getting out of the house, so it's actually

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Speaker 1: fun for me.

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Speaker 4: Amazing.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, your work is legendary. It's you know,

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Speaker 2: to say it's a best selling book or anything as

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Speaker 2: an understatement. Your work has impacted the way people think

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Speaker 2: and live and make decisions. And people look to your

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Speaker 2: books as law books and textbooks. They don't see them

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Speaker 2: as just storybooks or a quick read. Their reference books

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Speaker 2: almost And I guess my biggest question to start off

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Speaker 2: is where did your obsession with power come from?

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Speaker 1: You know, I guess you'd have to go back to

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Speaker 1: my early childhood. Maybe you know, I felt as a

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Speaker 1: child a little bit helpless around my parents. In some ways,

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Speaker 1: I was a very sensitive boy. I still have that issue.

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Speaker 1: There were great parents, but they weren't the most overtly affectionate,

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Speaker 1: and so I was always kind of wondering and observing

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Speaker 1: them and trying to be careful around them. They didn't

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Speaker 1: do anything to upset them, so I became kind of

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Speaker 1: an observer of people, and my main thing was as

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Speaker 1: sort of a protective device to not be heard and

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Speaker 1: to be able to have a degree of control over

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Speaker 1: the people around me. So I didn't feel like I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, going to get yelled at.

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Speaker 3: Or something like that.

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Speaker 1: And then as I entered the work world, you know,

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Speaker 1: I kind of it was sort of a rude awakening

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Speaker 1: for me because I had studied, you know, literature and languages.

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Speaker 1: My major was Ancient Greek, and you know, things that

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Speaker 1: are completely impractical in this world. And then I entered

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Speaker 1: the work world with all of my dreams, my illusions,

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Speaker 1: my fancies, and it's like slapped in the face. This

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Speaker 1: is not what I expected. I had many different jobs.

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Speaker 1: I lived in New York. I did journalism. Then I

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Speaker 1: lived in Europe. I traveled around because I couldn't really

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Speaker 1: find out what I wanted to do. I worked in

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Speaker 1: a hotel in Paris. I taught English in Barcelona. I

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Speaker 1: did construction work in Greece on an island in Greece.

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Speaker 1: I worked in a television company in London. You name it,

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Speaker 1: I did it. And I had all kinds of bosses.

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Speaker 1: I saw all kinds of power games and manipulations going on.

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Speaker 1: And so taking that knowledge from my childhood of observing people,

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Speaker 1: seeing how they operate seeing what's really going on behind

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Speaker 1: their minds. Because people wear masks, they don't tell you

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Speaker 1: what they're thinking. They don't want to admit that they

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Speaker 1: want power, that they want to control you or manipulate.

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Speaker 3: You in some way.

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Speaker 1: And so I was always kind of a decipherer of

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Speaker 1: people and what their real thoughts were. And to me,

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Speaker 1: figuring people out is a form of power. And then

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Speaker 1: I worked in Hollywood, which is kind of the ultimate

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Speaker 1: power environment, you know, because nobody in Hollywood wants to

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Speaker 1: admit that their goal is power.

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Speaker 3: They want to make it overorry.

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Speaker 1: About art, were about creativity, liberal causes, blah blah blah,

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Speaker 1: but really they wanted power. It was the most power

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Speaker 1: hungry environment I had ever witnessed. I observed a kind

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Speaker 1: of a double face think quality going on. On the

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Speaker 1: one hand, they would present this front to their employees,

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Speaker 1: to everyone else, but really they were practicing all of

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Speaker 1: these games, these kind of power games going on. And

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Speaker 1: so that's what sort of inspired my first book, The

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Speaker 1: forty eight Laws of Power, because my sympathies are more

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Speaker 1: on the side of the underdog. I don't have a

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Speaker 1: sympathy for a Hollywood executive, for a Michael ovit's for

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Speaker 1: a CEO of a company. I have sympathy for the

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Speaker 1: poor guy like myself who is thrown into these environments,

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Speaker 1: doesn't understand them, is a bit naive, right, doesn't know

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Speaker 1: the rules of power that these generally white men, at

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Speaker 1: least the back in that era, seem to know instinctively.

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Speaker 1: And so I wanted to reveal to everyone what goes

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Speaker 1: on behind closed doors, the real games of power that

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Speaker 1: people play. So it's not that I'm obsessed with it,

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Speaker 1: but I feel like people like myself are often too naive.

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Speaker 1: They don't understand what they're about to get into. They

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Speaker 1: don't understand how rough and brutal the world can be,

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Speaker 1: and I actually wanted to kind of help them and

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Speaker 1: reveal the kinds of things that I learned the hard way.

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Speaker 2: I love that learning journey because so much of what

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Speaker 2: we seek are their gifts and gaps from our parents.

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Speaker 2: You know, whether they give us a gift and we

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Speaker 2: chase that gift, or they have a gap in their parenting.

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Speaker 4: We try and fill that gap.

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Speaker 2: And it's amazing how everything seems to really really stem

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Speaker 2: from that. Where how do you define power in the

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Speaker 2: way you guide people in this book Towards Power, because

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Speaker 2: I think power has changed, power has shifted, it meaning

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Speaker 2: has evolved, and I wanted to know what you define

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Speaker 2: as power. Well.

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Speaker 1: People have this misconception of power. They think it has

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Speaker 1: to do with CEOs and presidents and it's kind of

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Speaker 1: ugly and dirty. I have a much different conception of it.

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Speaker 1: It's something that has to do with your daily life.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: I have the idea that much in our lives we

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Speaker 1: cannot control. You can throw a number out ninety five percent.

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Speaker 1: You can't control disease. You control the people.

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Speaker 3: That you meet.

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Speaker 1: It's by chance that you met your wife and you

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Speaker 1: fell in love and you ended up marrying her. You

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Speaker 1: kind of fall into jobs. There's much in life that

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Speaker 1: is way beyond your control, but there is a margin

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Speaker 1: that you can control, right, And it's mostly about your relationships.

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Speaker 1: It has to do with your children, your spouse, your partners,

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Speaker 1: your colleagues at work, your bosses, and the feeling that

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Speaker 1: you have no control over them, that they can do

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Speaker 1: whatever they want, that you have an idea and you

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Speaker 1: want to sell it to them, or you want somebody

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Speaker 1: to stop their annoying behavior, and you can't control them.

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Speaker 1: They're completely oblivious, they won't listen to anything you say.

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Speaker 1: Is to me, the worst feeling for a human being

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Speaker 1: to have, right where animals that need that sense of

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Speaker 1: I can influence my environment, I can influence the people

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Speaker 1: around me. And the sense of helplessness is a very,

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Speaker 1: very primal feeling. It's like when you take an animal out.

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Speaker 1: If you have dogs or cats and you put them

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Speaker 1: on their belly, they feel exposed, they feel terrified, and

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Speaker 1: that's when they attack you. Well, that position is like

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Speaker 1: being on our belly. I can't control my teenage son

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Speaker 1: he's into drugs. My husband or my wife isn't listening

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Speaker 1: to me. Oh my boss is doing You know, you

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Speaker 1: want the ability to be able to at least defend

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Speaker 1: yourself or to have some influence or power over them.

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Speaker 1: It's a small margin because there's much you can't control,

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Speaker 1: but to the degree that you can have some of

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Speaker 1: that power. And then there's one other aspect, probably the

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Speaker 1: most important aspect that I'm forgetting here, is power over

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Speaker 1: yourself self mastery. Right, because a lot of the problems

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Speaker 1: that you have in life, you can't really control yourself.

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Speaker 3: You're subject to all.

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Speaker 1: These emotions, these moods, these things that grab you, that

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Speaker 1: obsess you, that possess you. Your mind has these recurrent thoughts.

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Speaker 1: You have no self control and it drives you crazy.

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Speaker 1: You have a habit you want to get rid of.

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Speaker 1: You take some programs, some class, and three months later

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Speaker 1: you're back at it. Ah, you know what is it?

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Speaker 1: So the sense that you can control yourself to a

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Speaker 1: degree and the sense that you can have some influence

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Speaker 1: over people is power. And the more you have it,

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Speaker 1: the greater the feeling you have because you can avoid

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Speaker 1: that helplessness that makes all of us kind of crazy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I really love how you grounded that definition of power

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Speaker 2: in self monstery because that seems to be where everything

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Speaker 2: else loses control. You know, It's like if we're out

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Speaker 2: of control, then everything seems out of control. And so

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Speaker 2: so much your vow lust or envy or greed or

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Speaker 2: anger has the ability to distract and derail us completely

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Speaker 2: when there's no self power.

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Speaker 4: Right, And why do you think it is? You mentioned that?

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Speaker 4: Why do you think it is that we all have?

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Speaker 2: And I can relate to this, and I think you

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Speaker 2: know when you referred to yourself as as someone who

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Speaker 2: struggled and you know, couldn't figure it out and was

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Speaker 2: surprised by what happened. And you know, I would say

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Speaker 2: the same that you know, I grew up being bullied

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Speaker 2: for being overweight, and I was one of a few

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Speaker 2: Indian people in my entire area that I grew up

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Speaker 2: in in London were in London. I was in North London,

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Speaker 2: so majority area of Tottenham and wood Green, which yeah,

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Speaker 2: which are not considered South Asian areas generally. And when

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Speaker 2: I look back at that time in my life, I

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Speaker 2: also feel like I, at one point in my life

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Speaker 2: was an underdog. And why do you think it is

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Speaker 2: that so many underdogs have such a negative view of power?

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Speaker 2: I feel like so many people today, whether they consider

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Speaker 2: themselves underdogs or not, when we think of words like

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Speaker 2: power or influence, we think of them as negative things.

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Speaker 2: We think of them as being as you said, like

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Speaker 2: dirty or toxic or plagued.

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Speaker 4: Why is that?

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Speaker 2: And how do you healthily transform your belief round power?

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Speaker 1: Well, that was sort of what I wrote the book about,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of it comes from our culture, which

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Speaker 1: I think plays a very often a very negative role

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Speaker 1: in our lives. It teaches us the wrong kinds of lessons.

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Speaker 1: And so back in the days when it was television.

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Speaker 1: Now it's whatever you watch and whatever medium. You know,

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Speaker 1: all of the villains in the world were these power

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Speaker 1: hungry people in black coats with cars with the windows

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Speaker 1: kind of blacked out, you know, and doing all sorts

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Speaker 1: of evil, ugly things. That's what we think of as power.

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Speaker 1: It's like a cultural trope that we've all digested, you know,

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Speaker 1: this kind of machiavellian character who's out to kind of

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Speaker 1: destroy people. Nobody thinks of power in a positive sense,

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Speaker 1: and it's maddening. It drives me crazy. It's incredibly hypocritical

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Speaker 1: when self help books are written and they're trying to

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Speaker 1: say that power or ambition or influence are ugly things,

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Speaker 1: when the writer himself or herself is actually a very

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Speaker 1: powerful person who has influence, who has control. It's awful.

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Speaker 1: It drove me crazy. It's why I wrote the book,

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Speaker 1: you know. So I try and tell people, Look, who's

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Speaker 1: one of the great saints that we hold up in

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Speaker 1: our culture, Mahatma Gandhi. Right, I certainly venerate him as

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Speaker 1: an amazing person. And I read very deeply about Gandhi

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Speaker 1: and I wrote about him in my third book, The

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Speaker 1: Strategies of War and His goal was to throw the

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Speaker 1: English out of India so they could finally experience independence,

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Speaker 1: because the people had been subjugated for so long that

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Speaker 1: they had forgotten what it meant to be human in

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Speaker 1: a way right, a very noble goal, but he realized

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Speaker 1: quickly on how difficult it would be. So he had

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Speaker 1: to be strategic, and so he had things like the

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Speaker 1: Salt March, where he very much plotted in advance that

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Speaker 1: he knew using his method of civil disobedience, where once

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Speaker 1: the police came out, you were not to fight, you

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Speaker 1: were to accept them. If they beat you, you accepted it.

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Speaker 1: You never fought, no violence. But he knew that back

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Speaker 1: in the day before television, that the media, the newspapers

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Speaker 1: would cover their English bobbies or whomever they were beating

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Speaker 1: these people up, and it would play horribly in England

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Speaker 1: because people in England thought that they were very liberal

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Speaker 1: and open minded, that they weren't these horrifying imperialists. He

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Speaker 1: was strategic. He knew that he had to get maximum

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Speaker 1: publicity for very ugly confrontations. Years later, Martin Luther King,

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Speaker 1: another icon who also practiced civil disobedience, utilized the same

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Speaker 1: tactics in his campaigns in Selma and Montgomery. At one

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Speaker 1: point it was very controversial. He had children at the

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Speaker 1: age that's thirteen fourteen involved in this march, that they

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Speaker 1: would get beaten up. People were in his group castigating

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Speaker 1: for this.

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Speaker 3: How could you be like that?

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Speaker 1: He knew that that would play on television now to

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Speaker 1: the white audiences around America, they'd be horrified. If you

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Speaker 1: want power in this world, if you are fighting for

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Speaker 1: a cause, if you want some kind of justice, you

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Speaker 1: have to be strategic. You have to think like that.

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Speaker 1: You have to think in terms of power. People just

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Speaker 1: don't give themselves up. You know, if we have the

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Speaker 1: Me Too movement now, men are not just going to

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Speaker 1: give up all their control in a place like Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: You have to hit them. You have to be strong,

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Speaker 1: you have to be forceful. It's a power game. And

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Speaker 1: I can't stand people who are naive, who think that

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Speaker 1: just being themselves, just being virtuous, is going to.

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Speaker 3: Get what they want in life.

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Speaker 1: If you're going to fight for something, you have to

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Speaker 1: be able to meet the enemy on their terms of power.

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Speaker 1: So that's sort of how I like to explain to him.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing unhealthy about Gandhi or MLKA as far as

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, thank you so much for sharing that perspective.

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Speaker 2: I definitely feel very aligned with that. I've often said

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Speaker 2: to people when people have asked me, like Jay, how

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Speaker 2: have you created what you've created? Or how are you

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Speaker 2: building your work and businesses? And I've always said that

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Speaker 2: to me, sincerity and strategy have to go together. Sure

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Speaker 2: that data and intuition have to go together, Like it's

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Speaker 2: you can't have one or the other. And so to

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Speaker 2: only be sincere and loving and compassionate and kind, well,

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Speaker 2: actually a lot may not happen. And to only be

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Speaker 2: strategic and influential and powerful, you may end up lose

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Speaker 2: your soul exactly well beautifully said like you lose your soul.

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Speaker 2: But when you have two together, and it is a

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Speaker 2: fine balance, and it is a you're always juggling both,

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Speaker 2: and you don't get the perfect amount. You're always in

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Speaker 2: percentages and proportions. But the idea that you can't ignore

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Speaker 2: this side. There's a beautiful quote you reminded me of

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Speaker 2: from Martin Luther King where he said those who love

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Speaker 2: peace need to learn to organize themselves.

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Speaker 4: As well as those who love war.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's what yeah, And I think that's

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Speaker 2: what we're saying that, And that's what I saw when

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Speaker 2: I first started to share the messages I'd learned from

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Speaker 2: living as a monk and the vaders and that tradition.

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Speaker 2: For me, it was if I'm not strategic about this,

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Speaker 2: or if I'm not focused or organized about this, then

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Speaker 2: i might as well give up now because it's not

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Speaker 2: going to spread itself. And so I'm really happy to

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Speaker 2: hear your perspective on that. How do the laws become

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Speaker 2: things that you use versus getting lost in what we

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Speaker 2: just sort of losing your soul in power now driving you?

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Speaker 2: Because I almost feel like when you start using the

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Speaker 2: rule of the laws, you end up feeling a sense

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Speaker 2: of power, and then that power can consume you. Often

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Speaker 2: it can become toxic. Some people start that way. They

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Speaker 2: start with an agenda and they utilize the powers wrongly.

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Speaker 2: But what to speak of someone who starts it's in

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Speaker 2: a more noble cause. But then now the laws are

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Speaker 2: using them versus them using the law.

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Speaker 1: You have to understand there's an offensive and defensive side

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Speaker 1: to the laws, Okay, And I always tell people who

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Speaker 1: have these kind of compunctions about crush your enemy totally.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to do that. Neither do I.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So if you're reading a law and it kind

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Speaker 1: of triggers this, ah, I can't do that, then it's

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Speaker 1: not something you should do anyway.

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Speaker 3: It's not going to fit your way of doing it.

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Speaker 1: You have a certain style, a certain belief system, certain values.

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Speaker 1: I'm not telling you to go outside your values. But

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Speaker 1: look at that law, which is probably the ugliest in

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Speaker 1: the whole book. Crush your enemy totally, and understand that

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Speaker 1: in the business world that law prevails ninety five percent

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Speaker 1: of the time. When a company like Google or any

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Speaker 1: tech company has an enemy, their goal is to get

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Speaker 1: rid of them completely, to buy them out so they

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Speaker 1: have no competitors. Right look at Amazon, but even small

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Speaker 1: businesses dealing with rivals. It's a dynamic in the business world.

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Speaker 1: So you need to be aware of it and not

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Speaker 1: be naive. You don't have to practice it, but you

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Speaker 1: need to be aware of it. Other laws are just

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Speaker 1: simply trying to show you what you know. We're animals

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Speaker 1: that kind of base our opinions a lot on what

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Speaker 1: we see and perceive. We don't often think too deeply.

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Speaker 1: We kind of take people based on their appearances. So

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Speaker 1: there's a law of power in they're called always say

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Speaker 1: less than necessary, very kind of common sense law, and

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Speaker 1: the idea is that if you're in a meeting with people,

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Speaker 1: that man or woman who talks less generally has an

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Speaker 1: aura of power, particularly a boss. They seem enigmatic, mysterious,

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Speaker 1: and when they do something, say something, everybody's hanging on

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Speaker 1: their words. What did that mean? But whereas people who

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Speaker 1: talk a lot give the impression that they're weak, they

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Speaker 1: signal weakness. They can't control themselves. So they can't control themselves.

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Speaker 1: How can they control anything in the business world? Right,

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Speaker 1: So we sense that in people, So be aware of that.

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Speaker 1: You're probably talking too much in a lot of circumstances,

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Speaker 1: and maybe you can control that. And so this is

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Speaker 1: kind of a way of defending yourself in an environment

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Speaker 1: where people will tend to see you as weak if

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Speaker 1: you can't have any self control. Right, So, if you

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Speaker 1: see a law that's ugly that makes you skin crawl,

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Speaker 1: you don't want to do it. I have no problem

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Speaker 1: with that. There are a lot of laws I don't

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Speaker 1: practice in there, but.

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Speaker 3: You need to be aware of them. You need to

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Speaker 3: be aware.

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Speaker 1: That other people are practicing them, so that you don't

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Speaker 1: become their victim. Then there are other laws that, yes,

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Speaker 1: you should practice, right, like appealing to people's self interest

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Speaker 1: when you're trying to influence them or despise the free lunch.

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Speaker 1: We learn to pay for things and be generous with

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Speaker 1: your time and your money for people. So it depends

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Speaker 1: on the law. But I hate it when people say, oh,

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Speaker 1: what an evil book. Those are people who haven't read

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Speaker 1: it because half the laws are more than half have

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Speaker 1: nothing evil about them, and the other half are about

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Speaker 1: opening your eyes. I never say you have to practice this.

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Speaker 1: I'm just making you aware of reality of what goes

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Speaker 1: on in the world.

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Speaker 2: Is it possible to And I agree with you fully.

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Speaker 2: I think if you read the book, you can't see

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Speaker 2: as an evil book or a controlling or manipulative book

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Speaker 2: at all. You know that's and you can tell clearly

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Speaker 2: it's not your intention, it's not who you are. And

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Speaker 2: that's what I want to ask you. How how much

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Speaker 2: of a role does intention play in some of this work?

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Speaker 2: Because I wonder if you thought about that when you

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Speaker 2: were writing it. Do you think about it now in

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Speaker 2: terms of how your intention fits in with a law

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Speaker 2: or your reason why you're doing it? The cause behind

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Speaker 2: the law that you're using. Does that impact or affect

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Speaker 2: the quality of the effectiveness of the law, Does it

401
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,359
Speaker 2: make a law work better it? Does it have any power?

402
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Speaker 2: Does intention have any power?

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Speaker 1: You mean, if your intention is for something good or

404
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Speaker 1: for something or correct, Well, it depends. Unfortunately, in the

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Speaker 1: world today, and you know, I've had this experience, and

406
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Speaker 1: we read about in the news, a lot of people

407
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Speaker 1: who have a dark side, whom we might consider rather

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Speaker 1: immoral in their behavior, get pretty damn far right, and

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Speaker 1: they use these laws and they don't pay any consequences.

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Speaker 1: So there's no kind of ultimate justice in this world.

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Speaker 1: Although there might be in a religious sense. I don't

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Speaker 1: deny that at all, But in a secular world, there's

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Speaker 1: no consequences to pay for it. So people, if they

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Speaker 1: have a lot, they do crush your enemy totally, and

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Speaker 1: that's their goal. They might end up being even better

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Speaker 1: at it than somebody who doesn't really want to go there,

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Speaker 1: but then it kind of tries it halfheartedly. Right, So

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Speaker 1: I'm not here to say that justice and goodness always prevails.

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Speaker 1: But the people who have those kind of intentions the

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Speaker 1: true sharks in the world. They don't need my book right.

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Speaker 1: They know it. It's in their DNA. They grew up

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Speaker 1: at the age of five or six seven, it's already

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Speaker 1: been implanted in them. And I write about that in

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Speaker 1: my last book, The Laws of Human Nature. You can

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Speaker 1: see that in certain people at a very early age.

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Speaker 1: The great therapist psychoanalyst Melanie Klein identified the greedy baby

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Speaker 1: at the age of six months that was already sucking

428
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,399
Speaker 1: so hard on the mother's breast, and she saw that

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Speaker 1: this type of baby turned into the type that was

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Speaker 1: actually very aggressive in life. So it's inbred very early on.

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Speaker 1: People like that have patterns of behavior they cannot control.

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Speaker 1: But those people with those kind of intentions who are

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Speaker 1: very manipulative, I believe very firmly, they don't get Ultimately

434
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Speaker 1: they hit a wall. They pissed so many people off.

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Speaker 1: They don't know the soft side of power. They have

436
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 1: no self control because all they know is grab, grab, grab, push,

437
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 1: push push. They don't know when to yield, they don't

438
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,160
Speaker 1: know when to step back right, They've only learned one way,

439
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 1: and so that becomes their down For.

440
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 2: What I'm hearing from you is that the intention it's

441
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,160
Speaker 2: in one sense, could could weaken it if it wasn't

442
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 2: used effectively. But you know, you're also saying that if

443
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 2: someone does have a positive intention or a good intention,

444
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 2: then it is likely that they may be happier with

445
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,199
Speaker 2: that power to some degree. And I think that's what

446
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 2: I find so fascinating.

447
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:21,959
Speaker 3: I see what you mean.

448
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, there's like, yeah, it's the relationship. I guess

449
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 2: we both know a lot of powerful people who would

450
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:32,360
Speaker 2: consider themselves to be not happy. Yeah, And I ask myself, then,

451
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 2: what is the role of power in the world, Because

452
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of people in your situation

453
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 2: when they didn't feel any power at home, or they

454
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 2: didn't feel a sense of significance at home, often power

455
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 2: or significance become pursuits for pleasure and for happiness. But

456
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 2: power doesn't lead to happiness. What does power lead to?

457
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not sure I completely agree with them, because

458
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: under the way I've defined power, where you feel like, okay,

459
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,439
Speaker 1: So let's say you have a spouse who has a

460
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 1: very annoying pattern of behavior. All right, And in my books,

461
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 1: I train you being direct and yelling at them never works.

462
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 3: It never works.

463
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: You have to learn the art of insinuation of persuasion,

464
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: which often is stepping back, which often involves teaching them

465
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 1: a lesson mirroring their behavior, right, And so your intention

466
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: is not ugly or bad, it's that you can't live

467
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 1: with this. Personalists they alter their behavior, right, And so

468
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,239
Speaker 1: you think about it, you strategize a little bit, you

469
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 1: take some steps, and it works.

470
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 4: Yes, I understand.

471
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, So in a relationship, often that you know can

472
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: spell into some degree of power. Or let's say you're

473
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 1: in a nasty divorce case and there's a child involved,

474
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 1: and your emotions are to screw that man or woman

475
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: who is so mean to you, and you're going to

476
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: have this nasty fight, and then you realize, oh my god,

477
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: this child that I love is really going to suffer

478
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 1: from it.

479
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 3: And then you step back and you go, no, I

480
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 3: have to not just react.

481
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: It's gonna lead to some an uglier cycle of battles.

482
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: I need to be a little bit more strategic about this.

483
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: I need to pursue this in a softer way, right.

484
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: And so you end up feeling better about yourself. So

485
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: I'm not saying all of the laws are going to

486
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: make you feel better about yourself, but the degree that

487
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: you can control your environment where you're not helpless at

488
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: work or in a relationship or with your children. Will

489
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: give you a degree of happiness. It won't fulfill you

490
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: the way maybe that's the difference here. It will give

491
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: you a sense of satisfaction. It will relieve that anxiety.

492
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: It won't make you fulfilled the way your career will

493
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 1: if it's done properly, but it will help you lose

494
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: that continual gnawing anxiety that you can't change people, that

495
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: you can't change yourself. So I do think there is

496
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 1: an element of happiness, however you wanted to do. Yeah,

497
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 1: no involved with power.

498
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 2: No, And I think I think that's why going back

499
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: to your definition of power, and that's why I asked

500
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 2: actually that early on, that's that's exactly it that when

501
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 2: I was referring to my point, I was saying that

502
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 2: when people have a negative intention and their definition of

503
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 2: power is warped, then power can end up feeling dissatisfying

504
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 2: when you get there because it didn't really get you

505
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 2: what you wanted, right, because you couldn't force someone to

506
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 2: love you, or you couldn't force this person. But but

507
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 2: actually when it was done in a in the way

508
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 2: you're saying, like when you realize that actually, if I

509
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 2: don't exert this power, I'm actually using this power to

510
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 2: save this situation, to enable this situation to improve. I

511
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: think that's if we're Yeah, I think that's what I

512
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 2: was appointing to. And so yeah, we're on the same page.

513
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 2: There's one a couple of laws that I love that

514
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 2: I wanted to pick out for you, so to just

515
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 2: mention a bit, because I think these are really really interesting.

516
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 2: So this one is Law twenty nine. Plan all the

517
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: way to the end, right, And I wanted to ask

518
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 2: you how one actually does that? And I know you

519
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 2: talk about in the book, which I want to say

520
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 2: for people, but for today's conversation, i'd love to know,

521
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 2: how do you plan to the end when sometimes it's

522
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 2: really hard to know what's next and what the end is?

523
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 2: And I think so many people today are you know,

524
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 2: in jobs for less time, they're moving quicker, there's so

525
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 2: many more opportunities, new technologies.

526
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 4: How do we What does it mean to plan to

527
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 4: the end?

528
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: Well, it's a thought process. So as you point out,

529
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: well enough that things come up that you can't foresee, circumstances,

530
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: things change, and the ending that you plan for doesn't happen.

531
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: The way you want it to, that's fine. But to

532
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,479
Speaker 1: the degree that you go through a mental process and

533
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: you think about the ending and you have a goal

534
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: in mind, you're going to be much more effective in life.

535
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 1: So when something comes up you're planning to go here

536
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: and it forces you that way, are prepared to take

537
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: that circumstance and make it maybe veer a little closer

538
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 1: to the point that you want.

539
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 3: Right.

540
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: So, people, the main point of that law is that

541
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: we are all go around with these dreams and these

542
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: thoughts and these plants that.

543
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 3: Are so vague.

544
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to write a book, I'm going to direct

545
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: a movie, I'm going to start a tech startup.

546
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 3: It's going to make billions of dollars, blah blah blah.

547
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: And then we maybe go through a kind of half

548
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: hearted process. Yeah, my book's going to be about this. Yeah,

549
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: my business be like that. Right, And then you don't

550
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 1: really plan deeply enough, you don't think because your plans

551
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: are infected with wishes.

552
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

553
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 3: Right.

554
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: And to me, the kind of the model of that

555
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: is the invasion of Iraq by all of these extremely

556
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: prudent strategic men like Dick Cheney, et cetera. They thought

557
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: that we would be greeted as liberators with people with flowers.

558
00:28:59,000 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 3: In their hand.

559
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: Then lo and behold, whoa this nasty, nasty war in

560
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: which hundreds of thousands of.

561
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 3: People are killed. Ensued.

562
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: They didn't realize that their plans were infected with their dreams,

563
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: with what I call the rosy scenario. So when you're

564
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: going to go sell this movie that you want to,

565
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: you're imagining that people already love it. You've already convinced yourself.

566
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: But you don't realize that people are cold, they're indifferent.

567
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: So if you plan to the end, you think about

568
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: the goal, you think about the other people, you think

569
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: about steps ABCDE to get there, you're more concrete. And

570
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: then when things come up, as Mike Tyson said, everyone

571
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: has a plan until you get hit in the face. Right, Okay,

572
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: you get hit in the face. Yeah, all right, I

573
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: got to change my plan a little bit. You're able

574
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: to adapt. But if you're not thinking clearly about the end,

575
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: you're in deep deep doodo. That book will never get written,

576
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: or if you start it, no one's going to be

577
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: interested in it, etc. You have to plan more deeply.

578
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: Closer you can visualize the ending and be realistic, the

579
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: greater your chances of success. That's sort of the meaning

580
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: behind me.

581
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's that makes complete sense. And I think

582
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 2: we've we've almost lost that ability today. I mean, yeah,

583
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 2: I rarely hear that, And that's why I wanted to

584
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 2: pick that one, because I feel like today and I

585
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: guess I could see you, not if anyone who's not

586
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 2: watching the podcast right now, I'm seeing row. Yeah, it's

587
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 2: the idea. We've lost that today. There's so much of like,

588
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 2: oh well, just try this for a second, and try

589
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 2: this for a moment and give this a go, and

590
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 2: it's almost like when you don't, you're so right. Not

591
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: only do you not get it done, I feel like

592
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: the hurdles seem much bigger because you just didn't comprehend them, right.

593
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: But today when people people would argue, and that's what

594
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 2: I'm intrigued. I would love to hear your opinion. A

595
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 2: lot of people would say, but Robert, if I comprehend them,

596
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 2: then I just get disenthused, or I get I feel limited,

597
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 2: and I just feel like it's overwhelming.

598
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 3: Courage.

599
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 2: Discourage, that's what I was looking for, Yes, discourage. I

600
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: feel so discourage and overwhelmed and it's too much for me.

601
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 2: So how do you think about the end but avoid

602
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 2: that feeling? Well, I guess you don't. You can't avoid

603
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 2: that feeling, but you work through it.

604
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, do you want just the dream? Do

605
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: you just want the vision of that of the great

606
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,719
Speaker 1: thing you're going to achieve? Or do you want the reality?

607
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 3: Right?

608
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: And so you know, if you're going to let's say

609
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: you're you want to write a book, I know that's

610
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: very lazy.

611
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 3: That's what I do.

612
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 4: Well, I'm writing my second book right now, so this

613
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 4: will be very helpful.

614
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 3: Okay, all right.

615
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: It's a pretty enormous thing usually, I mean, if you're

616
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: somewhat ambitious, right, and it's going to involve a lot

617
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: of work and thinking and planning.

618
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 3: Right.

619
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: But if you overdo the thinking, if you think about

620
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: it every little thing is planned ahead of time, then

621
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: the process kind of loses its joy and its excitement.

622
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: It seems overplanned.

623
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 3: Right.

624
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: But you want to have a vision. Whenever I start

625
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: a book, I have an overall vision of what I

626
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: want the reader to feel from it, what I want

627
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: them to learn from right, Okay, and so then I

628
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: plot very carefully the ways to get there. But yeah,

629
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: it's going to be take three or four years. Yeah,

630
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: it's overwhelming. Yeah, it's daunting. So what you do is

631
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: you back off and you create little micro goals. So

632
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: I have planning all the way. End means to the

633
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: end of July. Right, Yes, I'm going to plan to

634
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: the end of July, and by July thirty. First, I

635
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: am going to have written ten pages. I'm going to

636
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: have done this chapter. I'm done this research. Then maybe

637
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: if it's then it doesn't seem quite so daunting, and

638
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: then you can maybe extended out a few more months

639
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: and lo and behold the little baby steps you take.

640
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: You're suddenly halfway there. Wow, it's really not as difficult

641
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: as I thought. So you break it down people, It

642
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: just drives me. Created can only think in terms of

643
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: black and white. Oh, plan all the way the end.

644
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: Oh think about that. No, it's planning all the steps

645
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: along the way. There's a balance involved. Right, So if

646
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: you do that, these little baby steps, and you give

647
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: yourself goals, you know, if you have to work on

648
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: your own, you're starting your own boss. It's maddening because

649
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: nobody's pushing you. You have to create continual deadlines. I

650
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: do this to myself by this date, I have to

651
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: have this much written, right, and it kind of engages

652
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: your spirit. It gets your emotions going its you realize

653
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: you have a deadline you have to get there, and

654
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: it energizes you. Whereas that vague feeling of oh, I

655
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: want to write a book, okay, blah blah blah, it's

656
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: actually more daunting, is less energy involved, because you never

657
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: feel like that. I call it in my war book

658
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: death Ground Strategy. When an army's back is against a

659
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: mountain or the ocean, they fight like hell to get

660
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: out of it because there's desperate and it's either win

661
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: or die. You have to have that approach with your

662
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: book or something. If I don't get this done by

663
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: July thirty, first, I'm in trouble. I better hurry up

664
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: and do it. So break it down and don't always

665
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: every single day think of, oh my god, it's going

666
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: to take so many years, et cetera.

667
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 3: That's in the back of your head.

668
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: You have a vision, but you have other little ends

669
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: that you're continually planning towards.

670
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, absolutely, yeah, And I think like that's the challenge, right, Like,

671
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 2: when you're writing the page, you're thinking about the book,

672
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: and when you're writing about a chapter, you're thinking about

673
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 2: the book launch, and it's like you're thinking about something

674
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 2: way bigger than what you actually have to do right now.

675
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 2: But it's the what you do right now that's going

676
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 2: to get that bigger thing. And I think if all

677
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 2: you did was wake up to say, I just have

678
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 2: to write a page today, which is that micro step

679
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 2: you're speaking of, then I don't.

680
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 4: Think I have to write a book.

681
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 2: Writing a book is daunting and overwhelming, but writing a

682
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 2: page or writing a paragraph, if that's where you're at,

683
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 2: like wherever you're at a line, you know, like that's

684
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 2: if that's the case, that baby step is what you

685
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 2: want to wake up and fixate. And I think it's

686
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 2: the same with yeah, with anything, whether you're launching a podcast,

687
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,240
Speaker 2: whether you again I'm being lazy, whether whether you're launching

688
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 2: a like you said, launching a company, whether you're you know,

689
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 2: whether you're starting a new brand or whatever. Maybe the

690
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 2: problem is we're thinking that I need to do this,

691
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:11,919
Speaker 2: I need to do that thing on the front cover

692
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 2: of Forbes magazine, and it's like that's not what you're doing, Like,

693
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 2: this is what you're doing.

694
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean people who are great craftsmen. And

695
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: I have a book called Mastery Yes, which I discussed

696
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: the process of creating something. If you look at crafts people,

697
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: somebody who's building a house or an architect, they can't

698
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: sit there and just suddenly have it happen. They have

699
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: to go brick by brick by brick. They have to

700
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,280
Speaker 1: lay a foundation, they have to focus on the foundation,

701
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. But at the same time they

702
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 1: have an overall vision of what the house will look like.

703
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: So if you're only focused on the day to day,

704
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: it loses a little bit of spirit. So you need

705
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: to allow yourself a little bit of dreaming. I dream

706
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: all the time. I'm being interviewed by Jay Shetty while

707
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: I'm writing the book. You know, I'm having I'm on

708
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: the cover of some other great magazine whatever. You know, right,

709
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: yousoft to have it because it gives you kind of

710
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: So you need both. Again, you need both. You need

711
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 1: to balance, yes, but a little bit more towards the

712
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: micro ends. And then occasionally, ah, yeah, when it's finished,

713
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to have this. It'll be wonderful because that'll

714
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: keep your energy up.

715
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 4: Got it.

716
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I quld oft agree with you more. The other

717
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 2: one I wanted to pick out. I mean, there's obviously,

718
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 2: as everyone knows, there's there's forty eight to pick out.

719
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 2: So I'm only picking two. And we've spoken about a

720
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:27,919
Speaker 2: few of them, but you have to get the book

721
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,720
Speaker 2: to read about the rest of them. We have mastered

722
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:35,280
Speaker 2: the art of timing. I find that one fascinating too,

723
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 2: because I think today we're living at a time when

724
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 2: people either think it's too late, it's too early. I'm

725
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: not sure, it's not my time. These are the you know,

726
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 2: these are the things I see on social media, These

727
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: are the things I see people express. How do you

728
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 2: master the art of timing? What does that mean?

729
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 1: Well, in an abstract philosophical sense, let's pull back a

730
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: sec and time is a human construct. Time does not

731
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: exist in the universe. It's eternal. There's no clocks, there's

732
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: no beginning or end. It's just one massive thing of

733
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: time that goes on forever.

734
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 3: Right.

735
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: We humans have created time. So it's subjective, it's psychological.

736
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: So you know the experience that when you were a child,

737
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: a year seemed like a million years. Oh my god,

738
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: Now a year.

739
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 3: Goes like that.

740
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: It's subjective. Right, So you have to understand that first. Okay,

741
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: So when you're excited about a project, when you feel

742
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: alive and energized, then time is a much different experience

743
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 1: than when you're bored. So you can create your relationship

744
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: to time. Right, So I'm not ready, Well, there's a

745
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 1: strategy for that. You should always take action a little

746
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,879
Speaker 1: bit before you were ready, is the advice I give.

747
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 1: So if you're not ready and it's a huge task, okay,

748
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,760
Speaker 1: maybe wait a little bit, take steps to get closer

749
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:05,879
Speaker 1: to being ready.

750
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 3: But several months before you're ready, go.

751
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: Ahead and do it. Try it because you're going to

752
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: rise to the occasion. If you feel like you're almost

753
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: ready and then you start.

754
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 3: You go.

755
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: But I better work harder because I know that I

756
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,879
Speaker 1: can do this, Whereas if you think I can never

757
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: do it, you'll just give up. You don't want to

758
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,919
Speaker 1: give up, right. So I have in the book many

759
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 1: examples of people who forced time. I call it forcing time.

760
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: So I talk about Julius Caesar and the famous crossing

761
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: the Rubicon. Right, he had an army of only like

762
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: five thousand and facing Pompey, his arch enemy, who had

763
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 1: an army of hundreds of thousands, and to cross the

764
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: river means he's starting a war, and everyone saying it's insane,

765
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 1: don't do it, you'll never make it. And he goes,

766
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: the die is cast, and he crossed the rubicon. The

767
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: war was on, and he knew that doing that he

768
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: would have to think every moment, give it every all

769
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: of its intense thinking, and you'd have to reach the conclusion.

770
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 1: And he ended up pulling off one of the greatest

771
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: military victories in history. Look at Barack Obama, a senator

772
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: who'd only been in office for one term. It's two

773
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 1: thousand and seven or so, and he decides to run

774
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: for president. Everyone thinks you're insane, you're not ready for it.

775
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,399
Speaker 1: No one's gonna believe it. You're not you have enough

776
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 1: weight behind you. He goes, doing this step will force

777
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: me to work harder to gain that energy. Yes, if

778
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: he was a state representative, it wouldn't have been time

779
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: to force it and try and make it happen. But

780
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: he'd already had enough preparation, just enough that he knew

781
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: if he took that step, something would happen. The energy,

782
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: the excitement, people would catch it. He would be infectious,

783
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:48,919
Speaker 1: and it would work and look what it did for him.

784
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,919
Speaker 1: So you can be over ready. You should always take

785
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: action just a little bit before you think that you're

786
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 1: ready for it, right. So, and then the other one

787
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: thing is to realize that with time is that you

788
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: want to feel like you're in control of the time

789
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: that you have. Yes, right, So I call it a

790
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 1: live time versus dead time. Dead time is where you

791
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 1: work for other people you have no control over. Your

792
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 1: time is not your own. It's their time. They possess you.

793
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: You're almost literally their slave, right, And a live time

794
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: is that your own. You're your master of it. You

795
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: control it. So when you work for yourself, which I

796
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 1: think is the best position in the world to be,

797
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: and although it's not for everybody, you kind of control

798
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: your own time. Every moment is alive, it's precious, right.

799
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: So for me, I practice this in my meditation, in

800
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: my daily life, particularly since I almost lost my life

801
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. Is every moment is so

802
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: valuable to me that time I maybe I could be

803
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: dead tomorrow. And you have to think that way. And

804
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: if you think that your time is limited, that you

805
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,399
Speaker 1: have things to accomplish, business, to start books, to write posts,

806
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: to start right, You're going to force yourself. You can

807
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: find the energy if you realize your time is short

808
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: and you have to kind of force it in a

809
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 1: way and not be sitting back on your heels and

810
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: continuing waiting. So I tell people, if you have a dream,

811
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: maybe stop waiting so much. Maybe throw yourself across that

812
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 1: river and go and take the action. And if you fail,

813
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: you will have learned eighty thousand times more than you

814
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 1: would have learned in business school. You start that tech startup,

815
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 1: it fails, don't worry about your reputation. You learned the

816
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: incredible things in it, so don't be afraid of failure

817
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: and be willing to always kind of force the time.

818
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: That's where of one of the art of it.

819
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that's really well articulated and explained. What changed?

820
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:51,359
Speaker 2: You mentioned that what changed for you between knowing time

821
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 2: was limited and then experiencing it and actually feeling with it, like,

822
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 2: because I think that's there's I guess there's very few

823
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 2: people who have that experience because for some people it

824
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:07,280
Speaker 2: literally ends up being the end from a physical standpoint.

825
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 2: But to almost have Yeah, what does that feel like?

826
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 2: Because I think you're someone who already knew that, you

827
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 2: knew that you live like that, you wrote this book

828
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 2: like you already live.

829
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 3: Like time is limited.

830
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 4: I have to write books.

831
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 2: You write phenomenal books and lots of them.

832
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, what changed? What changed in that knowing that theory? Yes? Yes, yes, yes, sorry,

833
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 4: it wasn't trying to be cryptic.

834
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: You see the shirt that I'm wearing. Yeah, do you

835
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: see kind of a weird little jagged line.

836
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 4: I see it?

837
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, this is the shirt that I was wearing

838
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 1: when I had my stroke.

839
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 4: Oh wow.

840
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 1: And I was with my wife who were driving home,

841
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,959
Speaker 1: and she saw, whoa, Robert, your face is all weird.

842
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: You're slurring. She was freaking out. She said, pull over.

843
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: And that's the last thing I remember. I went unconscious,

844
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,359
Speaker 1: and the ambulance came and they took scissors and they

845
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 1: cut the shirt right around there, ripped it off me.

846
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,439
Speaker 1: They threw it in a bag. Then they like put

847
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 1: something into help give oxygen to my brain because it

848
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 1: had stopped going flowing to my brain. So months later

849
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: I asked my wife whatever happened to that shirt? I

850
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: loved it because she had given it to me like

851
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 1: two months before for my birthday. I love that shirt.

852
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: She told me the story, and I say, oh man.

853
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 1: And then finally I said, can you sew it together again?

854
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: Because she's a good sewer. She said yeah, okay, and

855
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 1: so she did. And so I wear it and it

856
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,760
Speaker 1: reminds me because when I was this close to dying,

857
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: there was a feeling inside that I had, right.

858
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 3: It was a feeling that I it's weird.

859
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: It was almost a taste in my mouth, and there

860
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: was a feeling in my bones, a kind of a softness,

861
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 1: like I was melting from the inside out. And I

862
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: could literally feel myself moving away from life in that

863
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 1: moment just before I went unconscious. Right, So, reminding of

864
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: it with things like so now and I wear this shirt,

865
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: it's like a memento Mariy. I can re experience that feeling.

866
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: And it's so ironic because two months before I wrote

867
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: the last chapter of Human Nature about confronting your mortality.

868
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 1: It's not the same. It's abstract. This is visceral. This

869
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: is real, And people who've had much more powerful near

870
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: death experiences than I am know that you don't emerge

871
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:21,720
Speaker 1: from that ever the same.

872
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 3: It changes you. Right.

873
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: So now, it was an intellectual concept. So now when

874
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,280
Speaker 1: I hear the birds chirping. I look out my window.

875
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: The sun is shining. I almost want to cry. I'm

876
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: here to see it, and I came that close to

877
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,359
Speaker 1: never seeing it again, you know.

878
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 3: Or people are irritating me.

879
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: No, I could be dead and they I love them,

880
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 1: and I can overlook them because they're also mortal. They're

881
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 1: also going to die. They also have fears. It's just

882
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: changes you emotionally from the inside out. So how can

883
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 1: people do that who haven't experienced death. It's not easy,

884
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: but you have to make the leap from an intellectual,

885
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: abstract concept to something visceral and emotional. Right, So, even

886
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: before my stroke, I meditate every morning. I would always

887
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 1: have a practice of meditating on that moment when I'm

888
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: going to die. I imagine myself it's an afternoon, the

889
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: sun is shining, and this is my last day on earth,

890
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: you know. And I can even make myself kind of

891
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: cry as I do that, and I would make myself

892
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 1: it's something real because we go around and we live

893
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: in a culture where death has no meaning. We don't

894
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: see the food that we're eating being the animals being killed.

895
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: People die in hospitals, cloistered away, whereas our ancestors. They

896
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 1: saw it on the street, they saw the animals being killed.

897
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: It had a presence. You live in this abstract world

898
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: where nothing is real, where your mortality is just like

899
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: something you don't even process. Get over that, jump over

900
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: that and make that leap. Make it something emotional and visceral.

901
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: It's not gloomy, it's not morbid. It's liberating because when

902
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: you think about your death and it becomes real, you realize,

903
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 1: I don't have this much time. I better work harder.

904
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: I better appreciate the people in my life. I better

905
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: love the more. I better appreciate every moment that I'm alive.

906
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 1: And it just opens you up in so many ways.

907
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 1: So it's one thing to have in an intellectual so

908
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: it's another thing to make it more visceral. And that's

909
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:23,399
Speaker 1: what I'm kind of advocating.

910
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 2: That's why I love That's a beautiful transition into the

911
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 2: your new book. That's how called the Daily Laws because

912
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 2: that's a daily habit, right Like, that's the only to

913
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 2: make that law feel real. You need to practice it daily,

914
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: especially if you've not had a near death experience. And

915
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 2: I know that I've practiced that death meditation often in

916
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 2: my life. When I don't do every day, I do

917
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 2: it more when I'm making a big decision. It really

918
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 2: helps me make big decisions. I remember when I was

919
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 2: working in the corporate world but really wanted to be

920
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 2: doing what I do today and sitting there asking myself, like,

921
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 2: how will I feel about this in you know, on

922
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 2: my deathbed?

923
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 3: That's very interesting. I never thought that's very Yeah.

924
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 2: I was like, if I stay in the corporate world,

925
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 2: how will I feel about this when I'm eighty or

926
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:12,359
Speaker 2: ninety or hundred whatever.

927
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 3: It's strategy?

928
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then how would I feel about this if

929
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 2: I tried and failed? And how will I feel about

930
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 2: it if I tried and it works? Yeah, And every

931
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: part of me was just like, you have to try this,

932
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 2: Like even if it failed, you'll be so upset at

933
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 2: yourself for being ninety and about to die and you

934
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 2: didn't try. And so I love that, And that's why

935
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 2: I love the fact that you've taken out.

936
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:36,320
Speaker 4: The daily laws.

937
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 2: What have been some of your daily life changes since

938
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 2: the moment you told us about that beautiful meditation? Have

939
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 2: there been other things? Obviously looking at the birds with

940
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: the sun? What else has changed daily for you?

941
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: I wonder well, a bit of humility.

942
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 2: Wo.

943
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: So first of all, you know, I look at people

944
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: now who are old or who have a disability, and

945
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 1: I understand them on a much deeper level. I have

946
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: much greater empathy for people not just with a disability,

947
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: but people who've lost their job, who are poor, who

948
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: have no control over their lives. I have greater empathy

949
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 1: for them because in the months afterwards, I had no

950
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: control over my body. I couldn't walk. I still walk

951
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: in a very kind of wonky way.

952
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:23,439
Speaker 3: Right.

953
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,720
Speaker 1: I was dependent on other people's, dependent on my wife.

954
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: I was dependent on health caregivers, on therapists, etc. And

955
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: that feeling of dependence is not something I like, because

956
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 1: I like somebody who really values independence. So I had

957
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 1: to deal with myself. I had to get over my

958
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 1: kind of radical individualism, my radical sense of being totally independent,

959
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,240
Speaker 1: because I was dependent on other people, and I really

960
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 1: could empathize with others who have that feeling of dependency.

961
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 1: It's not a good feeling. You have to learn to

962
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: accept it in some way, and it's not easy. And

963
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: I learn that there were some negative qualities that I

964
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: had that I had to confront, like my impatience. Yeah,

965
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 1: whenever I had a problem or a health issue, I

966
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 1: would push past it. Man, Okay, I broke my leg,

967
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: Well I'm going to do therapy, so in two months

968
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to be out. And I did it right.

969
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 1: It doesn't work for this. You can't push past your way.

970
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 1: My brain was damaged. I can't push past it. I

971
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 1: have to accept it. And that's not easy for someone

972
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: who's used to just pushing past things like that. So

973
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 1: I had to deal with qualities that aren't really to

974
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 1: me very good. Like I think patience is a good thing.

975
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: I think it's a virtue and I think it's positive

976
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,280
Speaker 1: and being able to accept certain things that you can't control.

977
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: So I had to learn certain things about myself. I

978
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: had to learn that some of the ideas I had

979
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: were intellectual, where I do have empathy for people, but

980
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 1: it wasn't as visceral as it is now, you know.

981
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: And then on a day to day basis, I've had

982
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: to like control my impatience. My wife can attest I

983
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: often lose it. So I'm no saint and I don't

984
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 1: pretend to be. There'll be days where I'm like, God,

985
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 1: damn it, I can't pick up my toothbrusures driving me crazy.

986
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: Other days it's like, come on, you can do It's okay.

987
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 1: You calm yourself down. Things are okay, right, Everything's going

988
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 1: to be all right. So I've had to deal with

989
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: my own issues on a very visceral, real level and

990
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: deal with them in a way I've never had to

991
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 1: do before. So it's an ongoing process.

992
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's such a special answer. Thank you for sharing that,

993
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 2: Like to get into your head with what it feels like.

994
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 2: And humility is such an incredible quality and the hardest

995
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 2: to learn and the most painful to go through. And

996
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 2: I remember when we were talking about sickness and health

997
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 2: and I as young monks, one of our duties or

998
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 2: roles would be to take elderly monks to the hospital

999
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 2: when they had to get checked. And it was part

1000
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 2: of that routine to make you see that because we

1001
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 2: were like twenty one years old and thought we were

1002
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 2: superhuman because we were like sleep, who needs to sleep?

1003
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:05,440
Speaker 3: You know?

1004
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 4: Like food? Who needs food?

1005
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 2: And you thought so highly of yourself, only to realize

1006
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 2: that you were just lucky because of your age. It

1007
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 2: was just the age of the body that you were

1008
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 2: winning on. It wasn't anything else. It wasn't that you

1009
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 2: were more self mastered or disciplined, and being humbled in

1010
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 2: that way was such a you know, to witness what

1011
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 2: you're saying, Like all of these things have been hidden

1012
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 2: in society.

1013
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 4: They're invisible.

1014
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and when pain becomes invisible, we become worse at

1015
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 2: dealing with it.

1016
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 3: Exactly.

1017
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 2: Who've become immune to it? We never see it? So

1018
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 2: how do we know how to deal with it? And

1019
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 2: so I'm grateful that you're sharing so authentically your pain

1020
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 2: and what you're going through, because you know, be very

1021
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,240
Speaker 2: easy for you to say, oh yeah, I'm just living

1022
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:55,280
Speaker 2: all my messages and you know, all of us failed

1023
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 2: to live our own like as in it's not fail,

1024
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 2: its just it's just hard, like you know, I think

1025
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 2: about it. So with the daily lords, you've got three

1026
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty six meditations, you said you meditate daily.

1027
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 2: What's been your daily meditation practice and does it change

1028
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 2: as it stayed the same.

1029
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 3: Oh, I have a very boring daily meda practice.

1030
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 4: I want to hear it.

1031
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,839
Speaker 1: I do Zen Buddhism. Yes, okay, I've been doing it

1032
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:22,760
Speaker 1: now for eleven years. Every single morning I can remember

1033
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:27,919
Speaker 1: the day I started and it's basically actually you sit

1034
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: on it. It's called za zen. You sit on these

1035
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 1: pillows and you're trying to empty your mind, right, and

1036
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: you know you have a process. You learn things from masters.

1037
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 1: I've gone to a Zen center here in Los Angeles.

1038
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: I read a lot of books. But it's a completely

1039
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 1: non intellectual process.

1040
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 3: Right.

1041
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 1: You can't think your way to enlightenment. It will never happen.

1042
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 1: And that's the problem I have, and everybody has. Oh

1043
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:54,919
Speaker 1: this is what I need to do. Blah blah, blah,

1044
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 1: bah blah. You can't do it. It's like this paradox.

1045
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 1: They describe it zen as this red hot ball that

1046
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 1: you've swallowed and you can't get rid of it. You

1047
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: can't throw it up. It's there, It's stuck inside you.

1048
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 1: The paradox is thinking, won't get it there, so how

1049
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 1: do I get there? So I'm not going to reveal

1050
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 1: the whole thing, but I have things called a cohan,

1051
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:23,800
Speaker 1: which is like like a little parable and it's a

1052
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: very famous coen in Buddhism. It basically it says this

1053
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 1: one monk asks a zen master does a dog have

1054
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 1: Buddha nature? And the monk and the master replies, muh

1055
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 1: and muh in Japanese means nothing or no, but it

1056
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:46,479
Speaker 1: really means nothing. It's like, well, it's nothing. In other words,

1057
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 1: you can't answer the question yes and no have no meaning,

1058
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: right because in Buddhism there is no discrimination. The discriminating

1059
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 1: mind is the ultimate form of somesara. So you need

1060
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 1: to get rid of that and meditate on muh. So

1061
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 1: for five years now I've been meditating on muh only

1062
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: muh what does it mean? And you have no idea

1063
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 1: the richness that will flow from one little syllable like that,

1064
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:17,279
Speaker 1: and meditating it on every day. So my meditation is

1065
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: not exciting, it's not variety. It's the same thing every day, right,

1066
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: And there are steps are involved in it. It's a physical,

1067
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 1: emotional process less than an intellectual one. But that's to

1068
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 1: give you an idea about it.

1069
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's it's beautiful to hear about it, and yeah,

1070
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 2: I love the idea of I remember the monks that

1071
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 2: I used to live with would always say that you

1072
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 2: know this, whatever you call it, enlightenment or revelation, whatever

1073
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 2: word you want to give it, it's something that's received,

1074
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 2: not achieved.

1075
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 4: It would always repeat that to us.

1076
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 2: It's received not achieved, and you know, as we're all

1077
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 2: trying to achieve.

1078
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 4: It, like I want to have it and I want

1079
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 4: to find it. What do I do? What I think?

1080
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 2: And just knowing that it was received gave me so

1081
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 2: much liberation in and of itself. Knowing that it would

1082
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 2: be received, you know, as I continue the path, and

1083
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 2: it would be revealed as well as I continue. So now,

1084
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 2: thank you for char I love it. I love hearing

1085
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 2: about people's daily meditation practices. I wanted to pick out

1086
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:21,359
Speaker 2: a couple of the daily laws because what this book

1087
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 2: beautifully does for everyone is it literally goes through every

1088
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:26,439
Speaker 2: day of the year so you can open it out

1089
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 2: on that day. Why do you think it was important

1090
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 2: to do that? Why was it important to have something

1091
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 2: for July first, or you know, why was it important

1092
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:37,719
Speaker 2: to have August twentieth or whatever it may be.

1093
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 1: Well, we talked about a little bit earlier about having

1094
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 1: micro goals. So we all have ambitions, we all have

1095
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 1: dreams and goals and desires that we want, and our

1096
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:53,280
Speaker 1: culture fills us with these kind of vague hopes and dreams.

1097
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:54,799
Speaker 1: I'm going to be this, I'm going to be that,

1098
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: But really, what gets you to where you want. Our

1099
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 1: habits are daily habits are negative habits that you can't

1100
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 1: get rid of, smoking, drinking, you know, online porn. Whatever

1101
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: your daily habit is, you can't get rid of it.

1102
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 1: But there are other habits that, like discipline, like working

1103
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 1: every day, like taking steps to get reach your goals,

1104
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 1: that are immensely liberating. And you can get rid of

1105
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 1: your bad habits through developing positive habits. Right, So the

1106
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 1: goal here is to focus less on the giant dreams

1107
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: and on the everyday process of changing your thinking. You know,

1108
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 1: I spend a lot of time thinking about how does

1109
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 1: change occur within a person?

1110
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 3: Right?

1111
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, me too?

1112
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we all experience from ourselves, the change rarely

1113
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 1: happens quickly as we like we step back, we revert

1114
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 1: to our old habits.

1115
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 3: Et cetera.

1116
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:56,359
Speaker 1: What involves what kind of consciousness do we have to

1117
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 1: go through the steps to literally change our way of thinking?

1118
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:04,320
Speaker 1: It requires hitting at the roots of things. It requires

1119
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 1: how you think every single day about simple, basic things

1120
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: in your life. Right, It's not grand dreams. It's the

1121
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 1: day to day thoughts that consume you, that obsess you. Right,

1122
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 1: So that's what the book is about. Every day is

1123
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 1: a meditation, and it's kind of structured in the beginning

1124
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,439
Speaker 1: to help you go through your career, mostly things from

1125
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: mastery about finding your life's purpose, you're what I call

1126
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: your life's task, and how to achieve a level of

1127
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 1: mastery and whatever you do. Then I kind of take

1128
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 1: you through the forty eight laws of power and dealing

1129
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 1: with toxic people, which we inevitably have.

1130
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 3: You're never going to go.

1131
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 1: Through life without facing toxic, negative people and how you

1132
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: deal with them. And it takes you through how to

1133
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: have influence and be able to persuade people. And finally

1134
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: it ends with learning about human nature, etc. And the

1135
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:02,919
Speaker 1: last month December is a social inspired by the book

1136
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 1: that I'm currently writing about, The Sublime, about opening your

1137
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 1: eyes to the insanity of just being alive right now

1138
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 1: in this world that we live in. So that's kind

1139
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:17,479
Speaker 1: of the process. It goes every day, focusing your mind

1140
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 1: on a thought that hopefully will plant little seeds inside

1141
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 1: of you.

1142
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the heart of the middle of that,

1143
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 2: which was like dealing with toxic people. That's actually a

1144
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 2: question I get asked so often, so I'm glad I

1145
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:31,439
Speaker 2: get to defer to you in this scenario and put

1146
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 2: you to the task. But the idea of like people,

1147
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 2: I hear this all the time, Jay, I'm stuck in

1148
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 2: a toxic family, My workplace is toxic. I you know,

1149
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 2: and some people are honest enough to say, Jay, I'm

1150
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 2: my mind is just toxic, Like it's not even other people. Right,

1151
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 2: where do you start? Where you Where do you guide

1152
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 2: people in that journey?

1153
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's obviously something I've been thinking about in dealing

1154
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 1: with for my whole life, particularly in all my different jobs.

1155
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: I'd had a lot of bosses that we would qualify

1156
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 1: as the psychotic boss or no matter what you do,

1157
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 1: that never pleases them kind of thing and the best

1158
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 1: lesson of all. So we can say the different kind

1159
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 1: of toxic type of people. Most often they're of the

1160
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 1: narcissistic variety. They're people who are grandiose, are people who

1161
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 1: are aggressive, passive, aggressive, who feel a lot of envy.

1162
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 1: There's like debrioted insecurities on and on. Their many types.

1163
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 1: But the main thing that you want in a lot

1164
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: to develop in life is the ability to detect them

1165
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 1: before you get involved with them. Because the way toxic

1166
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 1: people have learned, they've learned strategy since they were six

1167
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 1: or seven years old, how to get power, and they

1168
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:45,120
Speaker 1: embroil you in dramas. They get into your emotions. Right,

1169
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 1: They entangle themselves in your life. They don't come at

1170
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:52,760
Speaker 1: you saying I'm toxic, I'm a narcissist, Get away from me.

1171
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 1: They know how to appear charming, they know how to

1172
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 1: be interested in you, they know how to be moderately pleasing, etc.

1173
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 1: They can they can even be charismatic. You get involved

1174
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 1: with them and then it starts to come out, and

1175
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:08,919
Speaker 1: it's too late because you're emotionally entangled with them. They've

1176
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 1: got their roots inside of you and you're sucked into

1177
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 1: their dramas and it's really hard to get out, particularly

1178
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 1: in an intimate relationship. That's the worst of all. The

1179
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: best thing you want to develop in life is the

1180
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 1: radar to detect them before you get involved with them.

1181
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 1: And it requires a change in how you perceive people.

1182
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 1: So it doesn't mean I don't want people to become paranoid.

1183
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 1: Everybody out there that I'm dealing with.

1184
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:34,919
Speaker 3: Could be toxic because it's.

1185
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 1: Only like five percent of the population or whatever.

1186
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 3: It is, truly like that.

1187
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 1: But you want to be able to see the signs beforehand, right,

1188
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 1: and you don't want to judge people based on their words,

1189
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 1: based on their charming personality, based on their glittering resume.

1190
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 1: You want to be able to judge their character, what's deep,

1191
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 1: deep inside of them, right, the things that they are

1192
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: not so visible at first glance. Right. So you have

1193
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 1: to train how you think about people. You have to

1194
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 1: observe their patterns in life before you met them. If

1195
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 1: this person you're about to get involved in a relationship

1196
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 1: tells you all my wives and girlfriends in the past,

1197
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 1: they were just such blah blah blah blah blah, and

1198
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 1: then you hear that they don't only last a year

1199
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 1: or so and it was always their fault, your antenna

1200
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 1: should go up. Something is wrong here. This person isn't

1201
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 1: reallyvealing the truth. That's probably coming from something within. In

1202
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 1: my forty eight Loves of Power, I talk about infection,

1203
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 1: where there are people who have an infecting power on you.

1204
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 1: They've surrounded by all kinds of drama. They continually present

1205
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 1: themselves as the victim of other people, whereas in fact

1206
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 1: they're the ones that constantly draw this drama to them

1207
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 1: because that's how they survive. And you're going to find

1208
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 1: yourself involved with them, and it's going to be horrible

1209
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 1: to get out of the relationship. You're going to feel guilty.

1210
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: So develop the power to recognize them before or you

1211
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:03,080
Speaker 1: get involved. And I have in the Laws of human

1212
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 1: Nature tons of advice about that, paying attention to people's

1213
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 1: nonverbal cues to A narcissist tends to have a very

1214
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 1: animated face, but a kind of a deadness in their eyes.

1215
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 1: They're they're kind of listening to you, but you can

1216
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 1: hear that they're actually thinking about themselves, or they're not

1217
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 1: really connecting to you through the eyes. The face is alive,

1218
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 1: but the eyes are dead.

1219
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 3: Right.

1220
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 1: There are signs nonverbal cues that will show you that

1221
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:35,440
Speaker 1: you're dealing with someone who's not I hate the words

1222
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 1: like sociopathic, psychopathic, but who is you know, generally very

1223
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 1: in self directed.

1224
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:41,400
Speaker 3: Right.

1225
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 1: The other thing I have to say is it's easy

1226
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 1: to judge and say, oh, the narcissist that talks with people,

1227
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 1: but we all have these qualities. We all have narcissistic qualities.

1228
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 1: We all can be passive aggressive, right, So some of

1229
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 1: it you can recognize in yourself, and there are ways

1230
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 1: the ways to get out of it. But the main

1231
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 1: thing is to not get involved with these people. If

1232
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 1: you're involved, let's say you have a spouse or whatever.

1233
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 1: The best power you can get is the ability to

1234
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 1: withdraw your emotions from the moment. And God knows that

1235
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: it is not easy. It's a day to day thing.

1236
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 1: It's a daily process where you have to tell yourself

1237
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 1: these little kind of scripts that you tell yourself, it's

1238
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 1: not me. It has nothing to do with me. It's

1239
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 1: not personal. They have issues from early childhood that have

1240
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 1: given them these toxic patterns in life. They're trying to

1241
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 1: make me feel guilty. But it's nothing to do with me.

1242
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 1: It's not personal. Over and over and over and over again,

1243
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 1: every single time. So you have the ability to detach

1244
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 1: yourself emotionally from them on a daily basis. If you're

1245
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 1: in a job and you have a toxic colleague or

1246
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: a toxic boss, if you can get away from them,

1247
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 1: if you can quit your job, if you can move

1248
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 1: to another part of the office, do it because it's

1249
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 1: worth it. Not worth collecting ten thousand extra dollars a

1250
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 1: year because with this boss, because it's going to damage

1251
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 1: you emotionally. It's going to take you years to recover.

1252
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,840
Speaker 1: Three years with a toxic boss, you may never recover.

1253
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:17,919
Speaker 1: So if you can quit the job, nothing, no job

1254
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 1: is worth that kind of abuse. It's going to hurt you.

1255
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:22,760
Speaker 1: It's going to damage you right, and the same in

1256
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 1: a relationship as well. If you can't get out, you

1257
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:30,400
Speaker 1: have to develop a habit of detachment and not taking

1258
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 1: things personally. And oddly enough, when people sense that in you,

1259
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:37,840
Speaker 1: like a toxic person's sense is that they can't push

1260
01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 1: your buttons, it has a powerful effect on them. I'm

1261
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 1: not saying it's going to cure them, but they thrive

1262
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 1: on the ability to push your buttons. To see you

1263
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 1: getting upset and angry just makes them so excited in

1264
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 1: a perverted way. The fact that you're not that you're

1265
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:57,760
Speaker 1: not taking it personally, that you're calm, that you're centered,

1266
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 1: that you're thinking to yourself it's not personal, are personal.

1267
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:03,920
Speaker 1: It's going to have a powerful effect on them. It

1268
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 1: may not end the dynamic, but it will have more

1269
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 1: of an effect that you want than constantly falling for

1270
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:12,520
Speaker 1: their ploys and their games are getting emotionally sucked in

1271
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:14,120
Speaker 1: to their dramas.

1272
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like you see the you see the

1273
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 2: magic trick, right like you or you're seeing like the

1274
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 2: puppet strings. Yeah, and you go, I'm going to cut

1275
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 2: these strings off now, you know. And that's like you're saying,

1276
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 2: it doesn't necessarily solve it. But that person's well aware

1277
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 2: now that that's not going to work on you, right, right,

1278
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 2: And you're so right that that reactivity we have with

1279
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 2: people that it's like they want that drama. They seek

1280
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 2: that drama because that's what gives them their sense of significance.

1281
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:49,919
Speaker 2: And so you're right that it may not stop that,

1282
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 2: but it definitely makes them think, and it definitely makes

1283
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 2: them check themselves in question.

1284
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:57,600
Speaker 1: They're used to getting away with things, they're used to

1285
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 1: people not seeing through them. And just repeat to yourself.

1286
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:05,439
Speaker 1: People do not announce themselves. They do not wear little

1287
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 1: horns on their head saying I'm devilish or whatever they

1288
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 1: disguise it. So a person who is overly charming on

1289
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 1: that first encounter, who's so nice, who's listening to you,

1290
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: who wants to help you and please you, that's not

1291
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 1: natural because we've all developed the habit of being slightly

1292
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 1: wary of strangers. And I've learned through my consulting work

1293
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 1: and my own experience that that person who's trying too

1294
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 1: hard on the first encounter. They're generally hiding something. They're

1295
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:42,760
Speaker 1: generally conceding intentions that they don't want to give out right.

1296
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 1: Their method of throwing dust in your eyes is to

1297
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: appear the opposite of what they are, and you're going

1298
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:52,600
Speaker 1: to fall for that. So when people try too hard

1299
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:56,200
Speaker 1: with one quality or reveal too much of a single quality,

1300
01:06:56,560 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 1: they're often concealing the opposite. So be aware of that

1301
01:06:59,520 --> 01:06:59,919
Speaker 1: as well.

1302
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what you're saying, Like, it's so hard

1303
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 2: to know whether someone is a goden agenda or someone

1304
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 2: who's just truly nice, Like it becomes hard to it,

1305
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 2: it becomes hard to suggest. I remember when there was

1306
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 2: someone I was building a relationship with and I said

1307
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 2: to them, I was like, you know, I've just really

1308
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:23,240
Speaker 2: got along with them, and they talk about this all

1309
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 2: the time now, and I said something like, you know,

1310
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 2: I think I think we'd be really good friends. And

1311
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 2: they said that they'd never heard anyone say that to them,

1312
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:34,840
Speaker 2: because it just seems so like lame to some degree

1313
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:37,720
Speaker 2: to say that to someone. But I've always lived that way.

1314
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 2: So I've always been someone who, like, I will tell

1315
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:43,200
Speaker 2: you exactly what I'm thinking right now, and I will

1316
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 2: in that sense, not exactly what I'm thinking right now,

1317
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:49,200
Speaker 2: but exactly what I'm feeling in a relationship. I've always

1318
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:53,320
Speaker 2: enjoyed communicating because I saw people communicate so badly about

1319
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:55,080
Speaker 2: who they wanted to be friends with and spend time with.

1320
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 2: I was just like, I want to tell this person

1321
01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:58,320
Speaker 2: I want to spend time with them, and if they

1322
01:07:58,360 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 2: don't want to spend time with me, I want to

1323
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 2: hear it now too, because I don't want to go

1324
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 2: home thinking about And that's how I was when I

1325
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:06,280
Speaker 2: started dating. It was like, if I was attracted to someone,

1326
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 2: I would always tell them because I actually preferred the

1327
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 2: failure then the idea of them not knowing and us

1328
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:14,960
Speaker 2: missing out on an opportunity to have a relationship. So

1329
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:16,880
Speaker 2: I guess my question is is there a way of

1330
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:20,879
Speaker 2: knowing if there's some sincerity or is that just an energetic,

1331
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:22,439
Speaker 2: intuitive thing that comes with time.

1332
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:24,720
Speaker 1: You know, this is why I have a chapter on

1333
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 1: nonvil communication and lots of human nature. We have an

1334
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:34,800
Speaker 1: animal part of us right where we feel certain things

1335
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:39,439
Speaker 1: about people on that first encounter or second encounter. That's

1336
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:44,559
Speaker 1: not rational, that's intuitive, and then we don't trust it, yes, right,

1337
01:08:45,400 --> 01:08:48,920
Speaker 1: And often it happens in a microsecond, in a flash,

1338
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:52,320
Speaker 1: you meet somebody and you sense a chemistry or something

1339
01:08:52,320 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 1: a little bit wrong. Right, okay, But with you, if

1340
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:59,960
Speaker 1: I met somebody like you who seems very genuine and sincere,

1341
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:01,960
Speaker 1: and I can read it in your face and I

1342
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:03,560
Speaker 1: feel it, I don't.

1343
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:04,200
Speaker 3: Need to be wary.

1344
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 1: But particularly with women dealing with men, because quite frankly,

1345
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 1: the more dangerous toxic type.

1346
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 3: Will be men.

1347
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 1: Women will often have an intuitional sense of something isn't

1348
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:19,040
Speaker 1: quite right, but they don't trust it, and they go on.

1349
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:22,720
Speaker 1: But we all have that feeling trust it, and you

1350
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 1: could be wrong. But it doesn't hurt to be a

1351
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:28,880
Speaker 1: little bit wary of someone. It doesn't mean if someone

1352
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:31,320
Speaker 1: is being like you friendly, I want to be your friend,

1353
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:34,599
Speaker 1: that you have to go running away immediately. It just

1354
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:39,120
Speaker 1: means maybe there's an ulterior motive here. I'm reading body

1355
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:41,800
Speaker 1: language that tells me know that they're sincere. I can

1356
01:09:41,880 --> 01:09:44,800
Speaker 1: let down my guard, but there'll be a tiny percentage

1357
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:47,280
Speaker 1: of me which in the days to come once to

1358
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:53,479
Speaker 1: see because there are people like It's a common classic

1359
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:59,200
Speaker 1: case of envy where a person who is envious of

1360
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:04,799
Speaker 1: you becomes your friend. That's where most envy relationships occur

1361
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:08,640
Speaker 1: is between friends, right, and they make a point of

1362
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 1: being your friend. They're very friendly, they love you, they

1363
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:11,320
Speaker 1: want to.

1364
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:12,519
Speaker 3: Help you, they want to assist you.

1365
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:15,600
Speaker 1: Wow, this is great because we never get enough of

1366
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:18,320
Speaker 1: that in life. And then six months down the road,

1367
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 1: they start turning against you, start doing things that completely

1368
01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:26,639
Speaker 1: confuse you. Now, probably in your first encounters you could

1369
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:31,639
Speaker 1: have detected something about them already, but people can be tricky.

1370
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:34,719
Speaker 1: So you know, with you, I would kind of sense

1371
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:38,400
Speaker 1: a complete sincerity and I would let down my guard.

1372
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:41,280
Speaker 1: But there are other people that you have to be

1373
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:44,000
Speaker 1: a little bit wary of. It doesn't mean that you've

1374
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 1: cut off contact, but you have a little bit of

1375
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:52,919
Speaker 1: distance and the moment you see behavior that kind of contradicts.

1376
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:55,559
Speaker 3: That initial impression. WHOA all right?

1377
01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:58,120
Speaker 1: And maybe you don't becomefort you don't get involved with

1378
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 1: them because getting involved with the person like that is

1379
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:03,640
Speaker 1: it's going to cost you a lot in the end.

1380
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:06,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can agree more, and that plas to business

1381
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:09,800
Speaker 2: love relationships, and I've made mistakes. You fall in love

1382
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:13,679
Speaker 2: too fast. In it eat scenario, you just you're moving

1383
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:16,439
Speaker 2: so fast and so quick, and you're involved with someone

1384
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:18,640
Speaker 2: before you even know it, and you never get a

1385
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:21,600
Speaker 2: chance to say, oh, do I notice something you know

1386
01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:25,519
Speaker 2: ontoward about this person? And so no, I'm with you.

1387
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 2: What are the things that Robert we talked about that

1388
01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:31,280
Speaker 2: people not having power, not understanding power, developing power. I

1389
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:33,679
Speaker 2: guess one of the things that you believe destroy someone's

1390
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:38,600
Speaker 2: power by themselves, So I don't mean things like reputation

1391
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 2: and envious people. And what are the ways we destroy

1392
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:43,360
Speaker 2: our own power?

1393
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 1: Generally by not having the ability to adapt to circumstances. Okay,

1394
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:53,479
Speaker 1: So you go through life and if you're successful or

1395
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:57,400
Speaker 1: have some success, you kind of depend on certain skills,

1396
01:11:57,439 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 1: certain strategies that catch you where you want to be,

1397
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:03,120
Speaker 1: and then you find yourself in a position that's new

1398
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 1: and circumstances that are new, and you keep doing the

1399
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 1: same thing over again and it doesn't work, and you

1400
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:12,719
Speaker 1: get angry and you get frustrated, and you blame other people.

1401
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:15,639
Speaker 1: This guy's not listening to me. This isn't working. It's

1402
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:19,680
Speaker 1: because you're not adapting, right, So you need to have this.

1403
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:24,560
Speaker 1: It's a kind of a zen or it's Asian strategy

1404
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:29,000
Speaker 1: mindset of every circumstance is different. You have to have

1405
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:32,479
Speaker 1: a sense of flow every thing that you encounter, every

1406
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 1: problem is new. What worked in the past won't work again.

1407
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 1: I need to adapt. I need to be able to

1408
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:42,880
Speaker 1: flow and be fluid and adaptable. That's the main thing

1409
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:46,040
Speaker 1: that trips people up. It's the wall they continually hit.

1410
01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 1: And I've seen it time and again in business with CEOs.

1411
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:53,599
Speaker 1: I was on the board of directors of a publicly

1412
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:57,840
Speaker 1: traded company. And people who are very powerful get to

1413
01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:01,200
Speaker 1: a position by being very aggressive, by being very charming,

1414
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 1: by being blah blah blah blah, and then they reach

1415
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:06,599
Speaker 1: a managerial level where they have a huge company and

1416
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:10,080
Speaker 1: those skills don't apply anymore, and they keep trying to

1417
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:12,120
Speaker 1: push those same buttons and it gets them in trouble

1418
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:15,760
Speaker 1: and they hit a wall. So your ability to adapt

1419
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 1: and alter your thinking dependent on your circumstances will make

1420
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:23,719
Speaker 1: you not hit those walls. I think that's the main thing.

1421
01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 1: And then the other thing that happens is grandiosity kicks in.

1422
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:32,559
Speaker 1: I have a chapter in Human Nature about grandiosity, and

1423
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:37,879
Speaker 1: basically what happens is success is very, very dangerous. Success

1424
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:42,160
Speaker 1: is much more dangerous than failure. Failure makes you look

1425
01:13:42,200 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 1: at yourself. When I failed with my body and my

1426
01:13:46,240 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 1: after my stroke, I had to look at my own limitations.

1427
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:53,440
Speaker 1: Whereas success is like a drug. It's like a continual

1428
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:54,919
Speaker 1: hit of coke or whatever.

1429
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:56,759
Speaker 3: Wow, I'm a god.

1430
01:13:57,200 --> 01:14:00,960
Speaker 1: People love me. Everything I say is wonderful. Everyone's going

1431
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:05,479
Speaker 1: around thinking, God, you're so great, Robert one, and slowly

1432
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:07,920
Speaker 1: your feet reason look and higher off the ground. You

1433
01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:11,839
Speaker 1: lose contact with reality and boom you fall down. Because

1434
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:15,639
Speaker 1: you don't realize that success often has a great degree

1435
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 1: of luck. You're just scounting the luck involved. You're discounting

1436
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:22,200
Speaker 1: the role of other people that helped you to get there.

1437
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:25,400
Speaker 1: You think it's all about you, right, So you take

1438
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:29,840
Speaker 1: actions that aren't calibrated to reality because you think you

1439
01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 1: have the Midas touch and you don't. So those are

1440
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:35,960
Speaker 1: some of the main barriers to power.

1441
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:36,880
Speaker 3: I think, got it.

1442
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:38,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a great answers.

1443
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:41,240
Speaker 2: There's there's a absolutely brilliant I loved what you said

1444
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:46,000
Speaker 2: earlier about thinking everything every situation is new, having fresh

1445
01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:49,200
Speaker 2: eyes and fresh ears to to look at a problem,

1446
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:51,439
Speaker 2: to hear a problem, and you're reminded me of a

1447
01:14:51,439 --> 01:14:53,559
Speaker 2: beautiful Zen story. I'm sure you know it of the

1448
01:14:54,320 --> 01:14:56,760
Speaker 2: I'll do the quick version, but the idea of the

1449
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:00,240
Speaker 2: person who wants to cross a river, so the build

1450
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 2: a raft. The raft helps across the river. Now they

1451
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:05,479
Speaker 2: carry the raft wherever they go. And now they come

1452
01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 2: up to a wooded forest and they're trying to get

1453
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:10,960
Speaker 2: through and the raft won't let them get through, and

1454
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:12,800
Speaker 2: they realize they have to let go of the raft

1455
01:15:12,840 --> 01:15:14,240
Speaker 2: if they want to go through the forest.

1456
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. I never thought of that. That's great.

1457
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:19,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, the idea that you get so attached to this

1458
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:21,840
Speaker 2: raft saved my life. I have to keep it on

1459
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:25,759
Speaker 2: me forever, right, Yeah, And you know I can relate

1460
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:27,360
Speaker 2: to so much of that in my life. Like you know,

1461
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:31,679
Speaker 2: I often feel that I allow myself to go through

1462
01:15:31,720 --> 01:15:36,960
Speaker 2: a renewal and almost and I don't like the word

1463
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:40,680
Speaker 2: rebranding because it seems so external. It's almost like what

1464
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:43,680
Speaker 2: is the word for an internal rebrand? But it's like

1465
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:45,840
Speaker 2: the idea of I allow myself to just be like,

1466
01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:47,360
Speaker 2: who do I want to be at this stage in

1467
01:15:47,360 --> 01:15:50,799
Speaker 2: my life and what do I truly want to dedicate

1468
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:53,120
Speaker 2: my life to and this time in my life too,

1469
01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:55,519
Speaker 2: And I feel like I'm at that stage right now

1470
01:15:55,560 --> 01:15:59,880
Speaker 2: in my life and because I've far superseded things that

1471
01:15:59,880 --> 01:16:02,400
Speaker 2: I thought I would have done, and now I need

1472
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:04,880
Speaker 2: and want to create the next challenge and the next

1473
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:08,280
Speaker 2: you know, I'm looking forward to something that's.

1474
01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:10,639
Speaker 3: Big and that's very healthy. That's good.

1475
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:12,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, look at what's that next big thing that's going

1476
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:15,360
Speaker 2: to make me learn new skills? And what is the

1477
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:17,200
Speaker 2: thing that I want to learn in order to you know?

1478
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:19,640
Speaker 2: And so I'm there right now. And when you were

1479
01:16:19,680 --> 01:16:22,439
Speaker 2: saying that, I was nodding along and laughing because I

1480
01:16:22,479 --> 01:16:26,760
Speaker 2: can just so relate to that, and thankfully because of

1481
01:16:27,400 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 2: good mentors and coaches. You know, it's I'm always amusing

1482
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:34,799
Speaker 2: success to look inward too, as opposed to only failure.

1483
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:37,760
Speaker 2: And of course there's plenty of failure in success too,

1484
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:41,479
Speaker 2: so you're always doing both. But the idea is to

1485
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:45,840
Speaker 2: always look inward. And so yeah, I'm just I'm actually

1486
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:47,880
Speaker 2: just sharing that with you because I could relate to

1487
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:48,719
Speaker 2: it so strongly.

1488
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:52,080
Speaker 1: Well, you know, the temptation I had after the success

1489
01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 1: of my first book, The forty eight Laws, was to

1490
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 1: kind of keep repeating it, to do a forty eight

1491
01:16:57,439 --> 01:16:59,200
Speaker 1: Laws of power number two, which is what a lot

1492
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:02,360
Speaker 1: of writers end doing because they're worried about taking on

1493
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:05,760
Speaker 1: something different. They've kind of created their audience. They better

1494
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:09,080
Speaker 1: just sort of keep to it. With success, you become conservative.

1495
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:13,760
Speaker 1: I better just do what's working right. And then, but

1496
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:17,960
Speaker 1: times change, there's a zeitgeist, there's the spirit of the times.

1497
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:22,240
Speaker 1: People have moved on, but you haven't. And you're forty

1498
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:25,280
Speaker 1: eight laves of power Number two won't work, you know,

1499
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 1: So you need to change. And I do that with

1500
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:29,960
Speaker 1: every book that I write. Each book has to be different,

1501
01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:32,280
Speaker 1: has to reflect the spirit of the times, has to

1502
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:34,760
Speaker 1: be a challenge. I have to learn new skills, I

1503
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:37,720
Speaker 1: have to go outside of my comfort zone. So I

1504
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:39,360
Speaker 1: think that's sort of a similar thing.

1505
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:40,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely.

1506
01:17:40,200 --> 01:17:43,519
Speaker 2: And I think I saw that because I look again

1507
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:45,439
Speaker 2: what we were talking about earlier. When you study the

1508
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:49,320
Speaker 2: people you admire in any field, or the companies or

1509
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:51,840
Speaker 2: whatever it may be, you see that, you see that

1510
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:57,200
Speaker 2: constant renewal. And initially it's very uncomfortable for the audience

1511
01:17:57,240 --> 01:18:01,880
Speaker 2: as well. It's uncomfortable for the community because they're not

1512
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:03,920
Speaker 2: used to changing and they're not used to seeing people

1513
01:18:04,040 --> 01:18:07,720
Speaker 2: grow in that way. And and I think that discomfort

1514
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:10,800
Speaker 2: is both on the behalf of the individual who's trying

1515
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:13,200
Speaker 2: to grow and be more of themselves and and it's

1516
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:15,800
Speaker 2: there for the community too, and but but it gives

1517
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:19,759
Speaker 2: birth to something phenomenal, Like you're saying, the conservative approach

1518
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:22,800
Speaker 2: would have never got you there, and so I love

1519
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:26,360
Speaker 2: that idea. And yeah, just it's it's been a fun

1520
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:28,439
Speaker 2: time for me trying to figure it. Like I'm almost

1521
01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:32,040
Speaker 2: enjoying feeling like I'm at the beginning of my journey again.

1522
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:32,400
Speaker 3: Wow.

1523
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:35,400
Speaker 2: And there's some there's some joy in that, which is great. Yeah,

1524
01:18:35,439 --> 01:18:38,880
Speaker 2: there's some sacredness and specialness of like, oh I forgot

1525
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:39,599
Speaker 2: how this felt.

1526
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:41,560
Speaker 4: You know, you have to write a book on that.

1527
01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:43,280
Speaker 1: That's your book. That's your next book.

1528
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:45,840
Speaker 2: I'm right, my next one already, So this one may

1529
01:18:45,880 --> 01:18:47,679
Speaker 2: have to be later done because.

1530
01:18:47,479 --> 01:18:49,559
Speaker 3: I had read that book tomorrow. That's a great idea.

1531
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:52,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, well yeah, we'll have to we have to, yeah,

1532
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:56,599
Speaker 2: share notes and collaborate on that. Because I was saying offline,

1533
01:18:56,600 --> 01:18:58,439
Speaker 2: I want to share this with me with me and

1534
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:00,000
Speaker 2: Robert were talking about this offline, but I want to

1535
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:01,800
Speaker 2: share it with you. Is the idea of you know,

1536
01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:06,120
Speaker 2: I'm really enjoying this conversation with Robert because we're almost

1537
01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:10,719
Speaker 2: toggling between the binary and finding the gray. And Robert's

1538
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:13,800
Speaker 2: fantastic at getting and that's what I enjoyed talking to

1539
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:16,680
Speaker 2: you about so much. You're so fantastic getting into these

1540
01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:20,080
Speaker 2: subtle nuances because we, you know, all of us try

1541
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:21,160
Speaker 2: and be like, should we do this or.

1542
01:19:21,160 --> 01:19:21,880
Speaker 4: Should we do this?

1543
01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 3: Like is this the answer?

1544
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:24,880
Speaker 4: Is this the answer? What's the number one thing?

1545
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 2: And it's you know, all of that stuff's just sounds good,

1546
01:19:28,240 --> 01:19:30,559
Speaker 2: but it doesn't mean anything. And I feel like today

1547
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:34,439
Speaker 2: we've really, you know, dove into some of those in

1548
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:35,840
Speaker 2: betweens and nuances.

1549
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:36,719
Speaker 3: So that's great.

1550
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:39,080
Speaker 2: I wanted to share thank you for doing that. You've

1551
01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:40,000
Speaker 2: been guiding us that way.

1552
01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:40,400
Speaker 3: Robert.

1553
01:19:40,400 --> 01:19:41,640
Speaker 2: I want to ask you, is there anything that you

1554
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:43,800
Speaker 2: feel you haven't shared or something else on your mind

1555
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:46,200
Speaker 2: or intuitively in your heart they're like, Jay, I have

1556
01:19:46,280 --> 01:19:49,040
Speaker 2: to share this on your podcast or anything right now

1557
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:49,920
Speaker 2: that's calling you.

1558
01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:53,040
Speaker 1: Well, the book that I'm working on, the Law of

1559
01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:57,439
Speaker 1: the Sublime, which is taking a long time, is probably

1560
01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:00,680
Speaker 1: going to be three years away or so, maybe more so.

1561
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:03,040
Speaker 1: It's almost a little bit too much to tease people

1562
01:20:03,080 --> 01:20:06,439
Speaker 1: with me now, but it's something that it's very important

1563
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:09,720
Speaker 1: to me. Because back in two thousand and five, two

1564
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:11,479
Speaker 1: thousand and six, I had meant to write a book

1565
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:15,080
Speaker 1: on the Sublime. It's a concept that fascinates me, and

1566
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:17,479
Speaker 1: I got derailed by other projects. I did a book

1567
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:22,360
Speaker 1: with fifty cent I did Mastery Human Nature, and then

1568
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:25,840
Speaker 1: I had my stroke. And the last chapter of the

1569
01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:30,120
Speaker 1: Human Nature is about the Sublime, about confronting mortality, and

1570
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:31,880
Speaker 1: so I go, this is the time to write this

1571
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:34,800
Speaker 1: book because it means so much to me, and it's

1572
01:20:34,840 --> 01:20:38,400
Speaker 1: been brewing in me for sixteen years. So there's something

1573
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:41,639
Speaker 1: very you know, personal about it.

1574
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:42,840
Speaker 3: And the idea is.

1575
01:20:44,400 --> 01:20:46,439
Speaker 1: I think a problem that a lot of people face

1576
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:50,519
Speaker 1: today is that their minds are locked. They have only

1577
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:54,120
Speaker 1: one way of thinking about things. They've become so conventional,

1578
01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 1: and I know it's something I'm not being judgement because

1579
01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:59,519
Speaker 1: I have the same problem, so rigid about this is

1580
01:20:59,560 --> 01:21:01,720
Speaker 1: the way the world, this is how things have to be,

1581
01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:04,080
Speaker 1: This is how how my life has to be. This

1582
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:07,640
Speaker 1: is what meaning is, This is where value is in life.

1583
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:12,200
Speaker 1: And I compare it to like a circle, and being

1584
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:15,040
Speaker 1: a social animal, our thoughts have to sort of stay

1585
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:18,160
Speaker 1: within this circle of what ideas are accepted, of what

1586
01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:22,040
Speaker 1: behavior is accepted what conventions and codes there are. And

1587
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:26,400
Speaker 1: the sublime is what lies just outside that circle. What

1588
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:30,559
Speaker 1: isn't really something you're supposed to think, is something supposed

1589
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:33,920
Speaker 1: to do, isn't a behavior or a value you necessarily

1590
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:37,479
Speaker 1: are encouraged to have. But when your mind touches it,

1591
01:21:37,479 --> 01:21:40,880
Speaker 1: tickles it a little bit like whoa, it jolts you alive.

1592
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:43,800
Speaker 1: There's another way of thinking, there's another way of being

1593
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:47,160
Speaker 1: in this world. How exciting, right, And that's what makes

1594
01:21:47,200 --> 01:21:53,600
Speaker 1: people search for transcendental experiences what mas Low called peak experiences.

1595
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:57,160
Speaker 1: That's why they climb mountains and almost get close to

1596
01:21:57,280 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 1: death and falling because it gives in that joel of

1597
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:05,000
Speaker 1: being alive. It shakes them up. And so the ultimate

1598
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:07,600
Speaker 1: thing be outside that circle is death itself. It's the

1599
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:12,640
Speaker 1: ultimate unknown, right. And the word sublime means up to

1600
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:16,280
Speaker 1: the threshold of a door, and that door is the

1601
01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:19,240
Speaker 1: door to death itself. And so when you peek at

1602
01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:21,519
Speaker 1: it and you look at it, that's the ultimate in

1603
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:22,639
Speaker 1: a sublime thought.

1604
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:23,000
Speaker 3: Right.

1605
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:26,439
Speaker 1: Okay, So that's that of the model. But I have

1606
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:29,280
Speaker 1: these different categories and I want to make you the

1607
01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:33,640
Speaker 1: reader aware that you take so much for granted. And

1608
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:35,760
Speaker 1: I don't want this to be in a Polyannish way,

1609
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:39,640
Speaker 1: because the Sublime has an element of terror and darkness

1610
01:22:39,640 --> 01:22:42,439
Speaker 1: and fear involved, because death is the it is the

1611
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:47,080
Speaker 1: paradigm here, but you don't realize in your day to

1612
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:49,400
Speaker 1: day life. I've just written these first two chapters and

1613
01:22:49,439 --> 01:22:52,120
Speaker 1: they're in the Daily Laws, so you'll see about them.

1614
01:22:52,120 --> 01:22:54,960
Speaker 1: I'm giving you some excerpts from the new book. But

1615
01:22:56,800 --> 01:22:59,120
Speaker 1: it's insane that you live in a world and that

1616
01:22:59,160 --> 01:23:01,439
Speaker 1: the way it is right now. Now, if you study

1617
01:23:01,479 --> 01:23:05,280
Speaker 1: the history of the cosmos, and how unlikely it is

1618
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:07,240
Speaker 1: that the Earth ended up being the way it is,

1619
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:10,120
Speaker 1: and how rare it is that they may not be

1620
01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:13,320
Speaker 1: life on other planets. If there is the rarity of

1621
01:23:13,360 --> 01:23:16,480
Speaker 1: the life that we know of, the prog the animals,

1622
01:23:16,479 --> 01:23:20,320
Speaker 1: the evolution, the technology that we have, and then if

1623
01:23:20,360 --> 01:23:23,760
Speaker 1: you look the course of evolution, and how improbable it

1624
01:23:23,880 --> 01:23:29,040
Speaker 1: is that humans ever evolved even existed. If an asteroid

1625
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:33,320
Speaker 1: hadn't hit the planet sixty some million years ago, dinosaurs

1626
01:23:33,320 --> 01:23:37,120
Speaker 1: would still be around, on and on and on, multiplied

1627
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:41,559
Speaker 1: by the seventy thousand generations of Homo sapiens that preceded you.

1628
01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:45,320
Speaker 1: If one of so, let's say your parents had never met,

1629
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:48,439
Speaker 1: you would not be here, Jay, You'd maybe you'd be

1630
01:23:48,479 --> 01:23:52,040
Speaker 1: combined in something else. Okay, And think of the narrow

1631
01:23:52,080 --> 01:23:55,599
Speaker 1: possibility that your parents hadn't met. Multiply that by seventy

1632
01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:58,840
Speaker 1: thousand other generations trailing all the way to the first

1633
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:03,240
Speaker 1: Homo sapiens. It's astronomical. The odds that you exist, that

1634
01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:06,080
Speaker 1: you're breathing, that you're looking at a world with plants

1635
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:10,400
Speaker 1: and animals, etc. Is staggering, and you never think about it.

1636
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:12,960
Speaker 1: So I'm trying to make you think about things that

1637
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:15,400
Speaker 1: you never think about in this book, and I want

1638
01:24:15,400 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 1: you to completely alter and make that going beyond the

1639
01:24:19,080 --> 01:24:21,640
Speaker 1: circle sort of more of a daily occurrence for you.

1640
01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:23,639
Speaker 1: So that's what's on my mind a lot.

1641
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:25,760
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, I love that. Well, I look forward to that.

1642
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:28,120
Speaker 2: I purposely didn't dive into it too much because I

1643
01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:30,280
Speaker 2: know that's all right. We need to wait for it,

1644
01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:32,680
Speaker 2: and I hope we get to have another conversation when

1645
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:35,800
Speaker 2: that comes out. But now we look forward to that

1646
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:39,160
Speaker 2: and I can agree with you more. The inconceivable is

1647
01:24:39,680 --> 01:24:43,000
Speaker 2: it's such a beautiful meditation and of itself, to meditate

1648
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:46,360
Speaker 2: on the inconceivable nature of where we are and what's

1649
01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:49,960
Speaker 2: possible and what's around us, and it needs to be

1650
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:54,080
Speaker 2: part of our daily life for that entrance into the

1651
01:24:54,600 --> 01:24:58,200
Speaker 2: splendor and how sublime it can be. So yeah, I

1652
01:24:58,240 --> 01:25:01,519
Speaker 2: love that and we look forward to that, Robert. We

1653
01:25:01,720 --> 01:25:04,280
Speaker 2: end every on Purpose interview with the final five. These

1654
01:25:04,280 --> 01:25:08,120
Speaker 2: are the fast five rapid fire rounds, so answers have

1655
01:25:08,160 --> 01:25:12,639
Speaker 2: to be one word to one sentence maximum. I may

1656
01:25:12,680 --> 01:25:15,720
Speaker 2: go off on a tangent, but let's see. So, Robert Green,

1657
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:18,120
Speaker 2: these are your final five. The first question is what

1658
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:20,160
Speaker 2: is the best advice you've ever received?

1659
01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:25,639
Speaker 1: I remember years ago my brother in law said something

1660
01:25:25,720 --> 01:25:31,200
Speaker 1: about learning to watch the grass grow, basically the idea

1661
01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:35,320
Speaker 1: of things only happen over time. And I was twenty

1662
01:25:35,360 --> 01:25:38,080
Speaker 1: one at the time and I wasn't listening. And I've

1663
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:42,599
Speaker 1: learned since then that the most beautiful things occur slowly

1664
01:25:43,040 --> 01:25:45,280
Speaker 1: and with patience. And if you can sit there and

1665
01:25:45,280 --> 01:25:48,200
Speaker 1: watch the grass grow, that's pretty great.

1666
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:51,840
Speaker 4: That's beautiful. What's the worst advice you've received?

1667
01:25:53,080 --> 01:25:55,880
Speaker 1: You need to capitalize on the forty eight laws of

1668
01:25:55,920 --> 01:25:59,400
Speaker 1: power and make a lot of money, which I ignored.

1669
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:03,679
Speaker 2: That's brilliant. That's a great answer. That's a great answer.

1670
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:07,080
Speaker 2: Third question what's your current purpose.

1671
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:10,840
Speaker 1: I have certain books I want to write that very

1672
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 1: mean a lot to me, and I want to create

1673
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:16,040
Speaker 1: them before I die because I know that my life

1674
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:18,439
Speaker 1: is short. I may not have as much time as

1675
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:21,479
Speaker 1: I want, So that's to realize all the books that

1676
01:26:21,479 --> 01:26:22,280
Speaker 1: I wanted to write.

1677
01:26:22,800 --> 01:26:26,760
Speaker 2: Question before is what's something that other people value that

1678
01:26:26,840 --> 01:26:27,479
Speaker 2: you don't.

1679
01:26:27,720 --> 01:26:30,719
Speaker 1: It's going to sound not right, but I'll say it anyway.

1680
01:26:31,439 --> 01:26:34,640
Speaker 1: It's money. I mean I have. It's easy for me

1681
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:36,760
Speaker 1: say because I have enough of it and I'm comfortable,

1682
01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:40,080
Speaker 1: But it's never been my goal. It's never ruled my

1683
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:43,800
Speaker 1: life really doing what I want to do. All that

1684
01:26:43,880 --> 01:26:45,840
Speaker 1: money means to me is freedom to do what I

1685
01:26:45,880 --> 01:26:48,760
Speaker 1: want to do and never focus on what I can

1686
01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:54,439
Speaker 1: do to increase my bank account. So I don't really

1687
01:26:54,560 --> 01:26:57,040
Speaker 1: value it and it drives my mother crazy.

1688
01:26:57,120 --> 01:27:01,559
Speaker 2: For instance, thank you for share I love that. And

1689
01:27:01,680 --> 01:27:04,479
Speaker 2: question number five. If you could create one law in

1690
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:07,520
Speaker 2: the world that everyone had to follow, what would it be?

1691
01:27:07,520 --> 01:27:10,000
Speaker 3: Be yourself. Be as weird as you want to be.

1692
01:27:10,479 --> 01:27:13,639
Speaker 1: Stop listening to other people and doing what they tell you.

1693
01:27:14,160 --> 01:27:16,960
Speaker 1: Just follow what your soul tells you what makes you

1694
01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:21,000
Speaker 1: different and be weird. We need more weird, people who

1695
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:25,160
Speaker 1: are more individuals, who are unique, who create art and

1696
01:27:25,360 --> 01:27:29,240
Speaker 1: businesses that reflect themselves. So just be you, be weird.

1697
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:32,200
Speaker 1: Let a thousand flowers bloom as they used to see

1698
01:27:32,240 --> 01:27:32,719
Speaker 1: in China.

1699
01:27:33,160 --> 01:27:36,960
Speaker 2: That's beautiful, Robert Green, everyone on on purpose. Make sure

1700
01:27:37,000 --> 01:27:40,679
Speaker 2: you go and follow Robert across social media and we'll

1701
01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:43,680
Speaker 2: have the links to all of Robert's books in all

1702
01:27:43,720 --> 01:27:44,440
Speaker 2: the descriptions.

1703
01:27:44,479 --> 01:27:47,679
Speaker 4: The Daily Laws is out as you're.

1704
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:50,559
Speaker 2: Listening to this episode, and of course the forty eight

1705
01:27:50,640 --> 01:27:53,440
Speaker 2: Laws of Power and the Laws of Human Nature, Mastery

1706
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:56,400
Speaker 2: and Robert's other books are available too. Robert, I want

1707
01:27:56,400 --> 01:28:00,880
Speaker 2: to thank you for just being such a wonderful guest

1708
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:03,320
Speaker 2: on the show, for making the effort. Just for those

1709
01:28:03,360 --> 01:28:06,479
Speaker 2: of you who don't know, Robert has traveled here to

1710
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:10,439
Speaker 2: be here with us in the studio despite you know,

1711
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:13,120
Speaker 2: all the physical challenges that he faces on a daily basis,

1712
01:28:13,160 --> 01:28:14,400
Speaker 2: and I really want to honor you for.

1713
01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:15,160
Speaker 4: That and thank you for that.

1714
01:28:15,280 --> 01:28:18,400
Speaker 2: It's a real show of your your effort and love

1715
01:28:18,439 --> 01:28:21,559
Speaker 2: for what you do and I don't take it for granted.

1716
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:22,720
Speaker 4: I really value it.

1717
01:28:23,120 --> 01:28:25,160
Speaker 1: Thank thank you so much for inviting me here, Jay,

1718
01:28:25,200 --> 01:28:27,679
Speaker 1: I was definitely worth the trip out of my house,

1719
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:29,639
Speaker 1: so I really really enjoyed it.

1720
01:28:30,280 --> 01:28:33,840
Speaker 4: Thank you.