Speaker 1: You're listening to The Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure
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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Buck Brief.
Speaker 1: On this episode, we have our friend David Harsanyi joining.
Speaker 1: David is a senior editor at The Federalist. David, thanks
Speaker 1: for being here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Just I want to do your your thoughts on what
Speaker 1: we've seen so far from the American media as it
Speaker 1: relates to the Israel Hamas war. I mean, the New
Speaker 1: York Times obviously ran with that Hamas propaganda story about
Speaker 1: five hundred killed that was totally false. Have they started
Speaker 1: to pull back a little bit on the you know,
Speaker 1: pro Palestinian pro Hamas stuff. What do you see happening?
Speaker 3: I think they've pulled back in a sense, in the
Speaker 3: sense of not being so obvious about it, but I
Speaker 3: think subtly, you know, it's worse right God, Gaza Ministry
Speaker 3: of Health is constantly being quoted. Their numbers are constantly
Speaker 3: being you know, given, and they'll say, you know, they'll
Speaker 3: they'll they'll preface it by saying that they're you know
Speaker 3: that this is the Gaza side of things. But they
Speaker 3: don't explain that this is the Hamas side of things.
Speaker 3: You know that they that they Thatjmasque couldn't possibly know
Speaker 3: how many people died, you know, within a few you know,
Speaker 3: minutes of a bomb exploding. But more than that, it's
Speaker 3: just the usual editorial paid stuff that I think is
Speaker 3: the worst. I mean, you know, just pro Hamas people
Speaker 3: on these staffs. It's very clear justifying murder, justifying and
Speaker 3: hiding basically, and this happens in news stories as well,
Speaker 3: hiding what these protesters are really about. How they have
Speaker 3: genocidal slogans, you know, how they are anti Semitic, not
Speaker 3: anti Israel, not critics of Israel and not critics of Palestine,
Speaker 3: pro Hamas, and uh, you know, it's pretty much radicalized
Speaker 3: me to to where I just hope they all go
Speaker 3: out of business. I mean, I don't think there's any
Speaker 3: saving this industry. They side with the most you know,
Speaker 3: evil people. They you know, set them on the same
Speaker 3: moral plane as people who defend their citizens. I don't
Speaker 3: think there's any anything worth saving when you have people
Speaker 3: doing that.
Speaker 1: And in terms of the demands for cease fire, how
Speaker 1: do you assess, like what one thing that I'm always
Speaker 1: curious about is how long would that cease fire, even
Speaker 1: if it were agreed to? How long would that last?
Speaker 1: And what's the difference between demanding an indefinite ceasefire after
Speaker 1: a massive terror sneak attack and saying they don't actually
Speaker 1: have a right to defend themselves like this. This is
Speaker 1: where I start to wonder if people are being honest
Speaker 1: at all in what they're even saying they want.
Speaker 2: Now, I think that's right.
Speaker 3: Ceasefire means Hamas will get off, get away with it again,
Speaker 3: and exist after this. I don't think any normal country
Speaker 3: any moral any country and country that had an attack
Speaker 3: like this would have a moral imperative to destroy the
Speaker 3: people who did it. You know, you know the Twin
Speaker 3: Towers fell. I know that we did a lot of
Speaker 3: things wrong after that, But the American people would never
Speaker 3: have stood for a government that said, now we're not
Speaker 3: going to go after al Qaeda, Let's have a ceasefire now.
Speaker 3: I mean that is insane. And the Israeli government is
Speaker 3: an elected government. It now has a unity government left
Speaker 3: and right, and they want to dismantle this terror state
Speaker 3: that's right on their border, and every civilian who dies there.
Speaker 3: It's a tragedy, but that tragedy is caused by Hamas,
Speaker 3: initially because they were put into power by these people,
Speaker 3: but be more importantly because they put these people in
Speaker 3: the way of danger. And Israel does the best it
Speaker 3: can not to punish civilians. But proportionality doesn't mean that
Speaker 3: no civilian can die. People don't know what proportionality means.
Speaker 3: If we had a proportional fight here, Israel would go
Speaker 3: rape and kill children and women.
Speaker 2: But they don't.
Speaker 3: They're trying to dismantle the people who attack them, completely
Speaker 3: legitimate under international law and under the moral law that
Speaker 3: any normal civilized nation lives under.
Speaker 1: What do you think the end state should be here
Speaker 1: of this fight? I you know, what is victory in
Speaker 1: this conflict against Hamas? What does that look like in
Speaker 1: terms of what's left in Gaza, what's left of Hamas,
Speaker 1: et cetera.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I don't think there's any really good victory here.
Speaker 3: It's an intractable problem caused by mistakes of the past.
Speaker 3: I think that the Israelis have made and obviously that
Speaker 3: the Palestinians continue to make. I don't think that removing
Speaker 3: Hamas will all of a sudden make the Palestinian people,
Speaker 3: you know, open to having a Switzerland there or open
Speaker 3: to like, you know, being part of a peaceful pact
Speaker 3: with Israel. So I don't know where it leads, and
Speaker 3: I don't think there's going to be any good victory. Obviously,
Speaker 3: the Jordanians and the Egyptians don't want to help. They,
Speaker 3: you know, they don't want Palestinians in their country as
Speaker 3: refugees either. They have their own problems. And Gaza Hamasa's
Speaker 3: is basically the Muslim Brotherhood. And in Jordan there's a
Speaker 3: Palestinian majority because there's already a Palestinian state there ruled
Speaker 3: by a minority. So it's a really bad problem for Israel,
Speaker 3: and I'm not sure it can be fixed. I think
Speaker 3: it could be managed to some extent, but I don't
Speaker 3: know that there's a victory in the sense that you
Speaker 3: know you're going to have peace there.
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Speaker 1: and many more. There seems to be a little problem
Speaker 1: the Democrat Party. H David the kind of old line
Speaker 1: or old guard Democrats like Joe Biden and you know
Speaker 1: Pelosi and Schumer. They're in general supportive of Israel, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, they still say, like, don't do war crimes,
Speaker 1: and we're worried about Islamophobia, like they they hedge a
Speaker 1: little bit, but in general their supportive of Israel. But
Speaker 1: then you have you know, the Rashida Talib wing and
Speaker 1: the squad and some of the far left of the
Speaker 1: Democrat Party or straight up anti Semites and are rooting
Speaker 1: for Hamas and all this. How does that How does
Speaker 1: that play out? Now? I mean, You've got a Democrat
Speaker 1: Party that it seems like is going to have to
Speaker 1: figure out what it really stands for on this or
Speaker 1: there could be some people that get primary.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think they're in a tough spot. Biden,
Speaker 3: you know, he says all the right things, and he
Speaker 3: supports Israel to some extent I would call it Obama
Speaker 3: level support basically. You know, So he sends Jack lou
Speaker 3: as ambassador, who is an Iran deal booster who made
Speaker 3: It's not a fault for what happened, but it's part
Speaker 3: of the problem. Right at least he bear some responsibility
Speaker 3: people who pass the Iran Deal push the Iran Deal.
Speaker 3: And then on the other hand, so that makes like
Speaker 3: the AOC faction really angry, and Progressive is really angry.
Speaker 3: I mean, his rhetoric makes them angry, but his actions
Speaker 3: are probably making pro Israel people angry in the Democratic
Speaker 3: Party as well. So I think he's going to I
Speaker 3: think this is a disaster for him. I think the party,
Speaker 3: when you look at it and divide it by age
Speaker 3: groups and generationally, it's heading in one direction.
Speaker 2: It's very clear what the trajectory is. To me.
Speaker 3: I see it on college campuses. I see, you know
Speaker 3: at Harvard where you have the head of the you know,
Speaker 3: what is it the law of you out there basically
Speaker 3: physically trying to intimidate Jewish kids. I see where that's
Speaker 3: all headed. I'm not you know, you don't have to
Speaker 3: be a genius to see it. And that's the future
Speaker 3: of the Democratic Party, not not the old line people.
Speaker 3: It's obviously an age thing, so that's another thing. It's
Speaker 3: headed in a really bad direction. And obviously maybe I'm
Speaker 3: being a little bit dramatic about it, but I see
Speaker 3: like these are the steps.
Speaker 2: That head towards some kind of violence.
Speaker 3: To me, Like, you know, I feel there's a threatening
Speaker 3: air about all these protests.
Speaker 2: If you're Jewish, I think you feel it.
Speaker 3: But if even if you're not, you should there's a
Speaker 3: threatening air to it, and sooner or later it gets
Speaker 3: to a point where you know, you've got to start
Speaker 3: worrying about violence, and in that you know, I know
Speaker 3: that's not exactly what you asked me, but you know,
Speaker 3: in general, I think things are headed in a bad
Speaker 3: direction for Democrats. Yeah, and so I think it's a
Speaker 3: problem for them.
Speaker 1: Now, how much of Israel Palestine or Israel Hamas you
Speaker 1: know that this conflict we're seeing right now in the
Speaker 1: US left wing version of the discourse, I mean, the
Speaker 1: people refer to it as anti colonial lot but it
Speaker 1: seems to me that this is viewed on American college
Speaker 1: campuses in particular as a race war effectively, and that
Speaker 1: you have white Israel versus brown Palestine. Do you see
Speaker 1: that as well? I mean, is that more so than
Speaker 1: even a religious conflict? From what I can see, that
Speaker 1: they view this in racial terms first and foremost.
Speaker 3: Now you nailed it, that's how they see it, which
Speaker 3: is so idiotic. I can't even explain to anyone who's
Speaker 3: been to Israel knows the Sephardic Jews and many Jews
Speaker 3: who came from Arab places look just like Arabs. It's
Speaker 3: not there's a color like half the country. There are
Speaker 3: people there are Jews from Africa who are Israeli citizens.
Speaker 3: It's you know, it's not about color, but it is
Speaker 3: about to them and how they view race. It is,
Speaker 3: so I think you're right. So when we see people
Speaker 3: like queer Surpalasin, everyone's like, that's a joke. Go to Gaza.
Speaker 3: See what happens. They don't get it. It's they're an ally.
Speaker 3: They have the same enemies Western civilization, America, Israel, the
Speaker 3: constant to shin freedom, how we see freedom. Those are
Speaker 3: their enemies, their allies, the same way we had to
Speaker 3: ally with the Soviet Union to fight Nazis. You know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying, Like they don't want to live together.
Speaker 3: They just hate the same people, so their allies and
Speaker 3: they see it. You know, the whole intersectionality, the identitarian stuff,
Speaker 3: the decolonization stuff, it's all going to lead to anti
Speaker 3: Semitic posture. The whole anti Zionism thing, which is just
Speaker 3: an you know, an euphemism for Jew started in the
Speaker 3: Soviet Union. It was a Soviet way of being anti Semitic,
Speaker 3: and these people have just picked it up Angela Davis
Speaker 3: used to do this in the seventies and now she's
Speaker 3: you know, she was a fringe figure then and now
Speaker 3: she's a hero of the left.
Speaker 2: She was one of the you.
Speaker 3: Know, she marched with the Women's March and BLM and
Speaker 3: all that. They love her, and they're all all those
Speaker 3: groups I just mentioned have the same outlook on Jews.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 3: Definitely how they see it as a racial war and
Speaker 3: they see Jews as on the wrong side of that divide.
Speaker 2: For sure.
Speaker 1: Come back in a second and get into David. Some
Speaker 1: of you know, I wonder if this is going to
Speaker 1: change any political alignments. I'm kind of curious if you
Speaker 1: think that will actually happen. We'll get to that in
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Speaker 1: Com paid for by wide Mote Research. So a conversation
Speaker 1: that we've been having on the radio show I've been
Speaker 1: having David is he's wondering aloud whether there will be there,
Speaker 1: whether there's been a red pilling of the American Jewish
Speaker 1: community over this in terms of the right is with
Speaker 1: them pretty just consistently uniformly Israel's right defend itself, Israel
Speaker 1: should go after hamas Democrats are a little split. Do
Speaker 1: you think that will affect voting at all in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four or is this just Is it still likely
Speaker 1: that Democrats will get about sixty to sixty five percent
Speaker 1: of the Jewish vote in the next election.
Speaker 2: Not sure.
Speaker 3: I'm very skeptical that that's going to happen. Maybe on
Speaker 3: the margins. I actually think the Arab vote and the
Speaker 3: progressive anti Israel vote is probably more important for them
Speaker 3: in that conversation. Actually though, and this sounds horrible, and
Speaker 3: I don't mean it to sound horrible, but you know,
Speaker 3: Jews are still a big part of the philith you know,
Speaker 3: the fundraising aspect of this and stuff like that. Jews
Speaker 3: are important in the Democratic Party. So there's this, you know,
Speaker 3: fight between those two. But I mean, I'm skeptical it's
Speaker 3: going to change anything. I saw the dean or the
Speaker 3: dean of the Berkeley Law School said, oh my god.
Speaker 3: You know, I can't believe this is happening. You know,
Speaker 3: there's anti Semitism within the left. You know Berkeley last
Speaker 3: year they had a Jew free zone students some students
Speaker 3: set up they won't invite Zionists you know, you know,
Speaker 3: wink wink to appear at their events. I think eleven
Speaker 3: groups have banned them. So the idea that this is
Speaker 3: new to them or that they didn't see it coming,
Speaker 3: I'm pretty skeptical of that as well. So I think
Speaker 3: as soon as Donald Trump's back on the stage and
Speaker 3: says something.
Speaker 2: They don't like.
Speaker 3: You know, religious Jews are different, I think, you know,
Speaker 3: or like even modern Orthodox Jews, I think might be
Speaker 3: a little bit different. And they were already split and
Speaker 3: vote Republican in some decent numbers, But when it comes
Speaker 3: to the reform jew or or or even farther to
Speaker 3: the left, they've created a fate. I don't want to
Speaker 3: say that they've created a religious disposition that is basically
Speaker 3: completely in tune with socialistic ideas.
Speaker 2: They're not going to change just because of this. To them, abortion,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: Redistribution of wealth is much more important, more religiously important
Speaker 3: to them than the state of Israel.
Speaker 2: So to me, I don't see a huge change there. Frankly,
Speaker 2: do you.
Speaker 1: Think that this conflict is going to broaden beyond Israel
Speaker 1: and Jimas or you think it's likely to stay pretty
Speaker 1: much within that sphere. And people are talking about Iran,
Speaker 1: and you know, the Houthis and Yemen fire and off
Speaker 1: some missiles to make some noise, US personnel being attacked
Speaker 1: in Syria and Iraq by she and militia's proxies of Iran.
Speaker 1: What's your take on where you see it going.
Speaker 3: I think there's some scare mongering here that there's gonna
Speaker 3: be World War three. It's like Russia is going to
Speaker 3: get into a fight, you know, with Israel and Hamas,
Speaker 3: or even Iran, I don't think, or Syria. But I
Speaker 3: mean there's a danger because if you're a country like Israel,
Speaker 3: Hamas did this, they killed a bunch of your citizens.
Speaker 3: They had logistical and financial assistance from another country. That
Speaker 3: is an act of war. That would be an act
Speaker 3: of war. If someone did that to us, that would
Speaker 3: be an act of war. And I don't know how
Speaker 3: Israel can just keep sitting around and letting Iran and
Speaker 3: its proxies. I mean, you have hez Ball on the
Speaker 3: northern border. They have real scary missiles, not you know,
Speaker 3: homemade missiles. They can do some extreme damage, and they're
Speaker 3: constantly threatening and talking about eliminating the country. I don't
Speaker 3: know how long they can allow that to happen. And
Speaker 3: obviously Iran wants nuclear weapons. Imagine if they had a
Speaker 3: nuke right now, how this looks like. It's a completely
Speaker 3: different and dangerous situation. So I don't know, I don't
Speaker 3: know what's going to happen. But you know, Iran has
Speaker 3: also killed thirty America helped kill thirty Americans. Iran has
Speaker 3: also killed I don't know if you remember this, but
Speaker 3: they killed like six hundred soldiers in Iraq.
Speaker 1: You know, I was in Iraq when Iran was killing
Speaker 1: those soldiers by putting the EFPs on the side of
Speaker 1: the road to punch through our vehicles. They were just
Speaker 1: killing Americans. That's Iran. They just viewed that as some
Speaker 1: strategic imperative to killing name as many American soldiers as
Speaker 1: they can. So I'm yeah, no, no, I was gonna say.
Speaker 1: It was why I was so supported of when Trump.
Speaker 1: When Trump decided to turn the head of the i
Speaker 1: ERGYC you know, solemoney head of the irgc coods force
Speaker 1: into a into a dust cloud. I thought that was
Speaker 1: an excellent move actually, And.
Speaker 3: So I'm not saying America should be in a war
Speaker 3: with Iran or anything like that. However, I don't know
Speaker 3: that America should want to sit by and allow this
Speaker 3: sort of thing to go on with its citizens either.
Speaker 3: And you know, you know everyone's work. It's not like
Speaker 3: we want to drop boots on me. It's not like
Speaker 3: we're on a nation building expedition to Iran.
Speaker 2: We're not going to do that.
Speaker 3: We are a true people underestimate how how powerful we are.
Speaker 3: And I'm not saying that we should be bullying people,
Speaker 3: but people attack us should have to pay some kind
Speaker 3: of price. And I'm not a warminder, I'm not a neocon,
Speaker 3: but I mean I don't know how long that can
Speaker 3: go on either, And uh so we'll see. So my
Speaker 3: answer to that question is, I'm not sure, but I
Speaker 3: doubt you know, we're on the cusp of World War
Speaker 3: three or and.
Speaker 1: I kind of see the same way you do. I've
Speaker 1: been telling people this notion that Iran, like Iran, is
Speaker 1: just going to escalate, and then I mean, we can
Speaker 1: do so much moredamage to Iran in this escalation that
Speaker 1: they can do to us that it's they have to
Speaker 1: take that into account as well.
Speaker 2: So I mean, I mean Israel has nukes, right.
Speaker 3: You know, and Israel has submarines in the Indian Ocean
Speaker 3: that can fire at Iran, like you know, I don't
Speaker 3: know if people realize that Israel has a conventional army.
Speaker 2: That's pretty scary, you know, if it really wants it
Speaker 2: to be. And anyway, yeah, no, I agree.
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Speaker 1: Chalk dot com. David, what are you writing about next?
Speaker 2: Over at the.
Speaker 3: Federalist, I just wrote a piece on jacklu who is
Speaker 3: the ambassador named the Ambassador to Israel. He's a corrupt dude.
Speaker 3: He's kind of an Obamas leftover stooge, and he is
Speaker 3: a terrible person to send over there for us.
Speaker 1: Why they pick him.
Speaker 2: He said it.
Speaker 3: I mean he's and CNN I saw had a piece
Speaker 3: saying it. I mean, he's there to inhibit Israel from
Speaker 3: doing what it needs to do in Gaza, you know,
Speaker 3: you know, using this it's a blood liabel, by the way,
Speaker 3: to keep telling Israel that they're you know, he's making
Speaker 3: sure Israel is not going to commit, you know, acts
Speaker 3: against civilians and so on. Israel doesn't do that already
Speaker 3: any more than any other Western country. And so I
Speaker 3: think they sent him there because they want Israel not
Speaker 3: to go into Gaza.
Speaker 2: Basically, I think it's too late for that.
Speaker 1: David Arsan everybody look for his latest at the Federalist
Speaker 1: dot com. David, my friend. I always appreciate you joining.
Speaker 2: Thanks for being here anytime. Thanks for having me