WEBVTT - Elon Musk Is Not Having a Happy New Year 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:09.480 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:15.120 Well, Jlon muskis now the richest person on the planet. 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:18.479 More than half the satellites in space are owned and 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:20.280 controlled by one. 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:23.599 Man, starting his own artificial intelligence company. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:25.680 Well, he's a legitimate super genius. 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:26.840 I mean legitimate. 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:27.360 He says. 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.000 He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:30.440 be different. 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:31.480 He'll vote Republican. 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:34.199 There is a reason the US government is so reliant 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:36.800 on him. Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:37.479 done nothing. 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.760 Anything he does he is fascinating the people. 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:55.280 Welcome to elan Ak, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk, Thursday, 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:59.560 January second. I'm your host, David Papadoppolis. We are coming 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:02.440 to you today because there has been so much news 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:04.839 in the Musk universe that we decided it couldn't wait 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:09.160 until Tuesday. Let's begin with the most grave news. Yesterday 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:12.960 in Las Vegas, a cyber truck seemingly packed with explosives 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:16.959 detonated outside of a Trump Hotel property. Then this morning, 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.520 surprising Tesla sales numbers came out and they sent the 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:24.679 stock sharply downward. But before all of this, there was 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:28.240 a disturbance in the MAGA world, a spat over a 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.440 certain kind of American work visa I brought Elon Musk 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.400 to the brink of a cage match with Trump acolytes 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:38.560 like Steve Bannon and Laura Lumer. Expletives were exchanged, ex 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:41.760 accounts were demonetized, and Trump himself had the weigh in, 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:46.920 which oddly hasn't really stopped the fighting. So to discuss 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:50.840 all this, I'm joined by our regulars, Max Chafkin and 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:51.639 Dana Hallt. 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:54.280 Max and Dana. Happy twenty twenty five. 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:56.639 Happy New Year, David, Happy New Year, Dana. 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:57.560 Great to be here. 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:01.120 Okay, So now we're recording around noon. 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:05.800 New York time, and this is a fluid story. New 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:12.119 developments keep emerging. But Dana Hella, at this point, what 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:16.040 exactly do we know about the cyber truck that exploded 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:17.600 outside that Trump property. 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:21.359 So the latest is that a man packed this cyber 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:25.639 truck with firework mortars and camp fuel canisters and was 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:28.000 driving up and down in Las Vegas and then parked 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:31.399 the car in front of this Trump hotel and then 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:34.360 the car exploded and he died in the process, and 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:38.760 other people were injured. Thankfully, no one severely injured, and 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:42.160 the FBI is kind of widening its probe to see 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.640 if there are any potential links between this incident and 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:48.960 the horrible attack that happened in New Orleans also on 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:52.480 New Year's Day. Elon Musk has kind of jumped in 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.000 and is working very closely with the authorities. And the 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:57.720 thing to remember about Tesla vehicles is that Tesla has 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:00.520 a lot of data about the vehicles where they like, 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.000 for where they were charged, for example, So Tesla can 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:06.800 go back and see this guy's route from Colorado to 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:09.880 Las Vegas and they will know where which superchargers he use. 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:12.400 So I think my sense is that Tesla's working very 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:15.840 closely with the Las Vegas authorities. And you know, Musk 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.640 has kind of made the most of this moment, you know, 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:21.919 arguing that the damage would have been much worse, that 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:24.480 the cyber truck is so strong that it contained the 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:28.000 blast and helped save lives, and you know, the cyber 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:30.240 truck is kind of this tank from the future, and 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:34.040 so in some ways, like you know, they are kind 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:35.800 I mean, I don't want to go so far as 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.760 to say that Musk is using this as a marketing scheme, 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:41.400 but he is kind of making the most of the 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:44.680 fact that only the driver of the truck died in 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:45.480 this whole event. 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:48.760 I mean, Musk is doing what he always does, which 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.520 is take whatever is going on in the news and 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:53.800 comment on it. You know, He's he sort of has 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.200 this instinctive ability to like pick up on what the 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:59.200 big story is. This is, you know, unfortunately along with 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.400 the attack in New Orleans. It's a big story, and 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:05.920 he is, as Dana said, like kind of commenting on 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:07.560 some of this stuff in what I think most people 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:10.160 see a sort of poor taste, like sort of again 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:15.200 promoting the cyber truck as like the best deterrent to 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:18.120 this kind of attack because it's so strong and powerful, 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:21.599 which maybe is getting a little ahead of the story, 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:24.160 although it is, Hey, it's great that you know, nobody 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:26.520 was seriously hurt in Las Vegas, so. 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:31.880 Max, it doesn't theme like a random thing that this truck, 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:35.960 this cyber truck was used outside of Trump property, given 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:40.479 the strong link between the two men at this point. 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.960 But we do not actually know that at this point, 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:45.960 at this point, that it was chosen on purpose. 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.359 Correct, No, we don't, and we don't really know anything 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:52.279 about this attack. And I mean, that's that's you know, 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.960 beyond what's been reported and basically what Dana has has outlined. 0:04:56.320 --> 0:05:00.200 Of course, you know, Elon Musk he has become a visible, 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:04.040 you know, sign of the new administration, and this cyber 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:07.760 truck is the probably the most you know visible of 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:10.320 the cars, like it sort of looks the most distinctive 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.120 by design, so it's it's not hard to imagine that 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:16.040 that there was some sort of connection here. He's also 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:20.919 been complaining about media reporting, essentially using this as like 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:26.080 another you know case in his very extensive, you know 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:30.120 file against the media, claiming that because some news outlets 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:32.640 put cyber truck in the headline of this car bombing attack, 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.560 that was somehow evidence of unfairness or or that you know, 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:37.479 they're trying to imply that there was something wrong with 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:39.320 the cyber truck, which is again I think that's part 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:40.800 of the reason he was sort of going out of 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.760 his way to like talk up the I guess like 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:46.600 bomb smothering capabilities of this vehicle. 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:49.919 I suppose it's germane or seen as Germane, because the 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:52.760 cyber truck, as you're saying, is a symbol of Tassel 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:56.200 and Elon Musk and and that is a Trump property. 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:58.520 And I guess just people are just trying, you know, 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:02.800 reading a link between the two. I would suppose that's 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:04.719 why it's remaining in the head line. 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:10.440 To Max's point, Tesla crashes and fires always get headlines, 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:13.200 whereas like, you know, like there are car crashes every 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:14.960 day and we and you don't hear about them. And 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:19.039 so Elon's point is that this is media clickbait, just 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:22.480 using Tesla as an egregious reason. You know that the 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:26.280 New Orleans attack wasn't you know, Ford pickup truck used 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:28.640 in you know, New Orleans attack. I mean, we don't care. 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:32.359 Like so, I think that Tesla does have a beef 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:35.760 to grind, which is that, you know, like their vehicles 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.440 are always in the headline whenever there's an accident, whenever 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:41.080 there's a fire, whenever someone dies in a car, and 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:43.240 we don't see that with other vehicles so much. 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:44.360 That's interesting. 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:47.719 But is that a reaction to Pethla It felf the 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:51.240 branded THELF or is that fear of the electric battery 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:52.160 in general? 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:54.599 It's both. It's both. It's both. 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.200 Lithium ion batteries when they catch on fire, tend to 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:59.800 burn for a very long time, and so like the NTSP, 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:01.960 it has always been very interested in. 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:03.400 Lithium ion battery fires. 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:06.800 Tesla has the most electric cars on the road, so 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:10.000 you know, just just by virtue of their market size, 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:12.559 you're going to hear more about those accidents. And then 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:16.880 similarly with autopilot, there have been several crashes involving autopilot 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.080 that NITZA has also looked at. So it's like this 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:22.920 never ending loop where because regulatory agencies are interested in 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:26.160 these crashes, they make headlines. But then also because the 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.640 headlines get traffic, a lot of news organizations do focus 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:31.640 on the crashes and the name and model and make 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.760 of the car when they don't in other instances with 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:37.120 other automakers, and that's been an issue that Tesla has 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:38.880 been really pissed off about for quite some time. 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:40.280 That said, the. 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:43.800 Fact that it was a cyber truck and Trump tower, 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:45.040 it's like it's very newsy. 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:46.400 You've got some keywords there. 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:47.679 Yeah, yeah, well we will. 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:52.000 I'm sure come back to this next week as as 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:53.040 new developments. 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:57.000 Warrant. 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:01.600 Now, Dana, you are actually on vacation today, but you're 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:05.160 so dedicated to the story and to the news including 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:05.880 didn't miss. 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:06.960 An emergency episode. 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.480 Couldn't miss an emergency episode, and we thank you for that, 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:14.560 as do our listeners. Now, there was also this morning 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:17.200 there were fourth quarter sales. 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:18.320 They came out. 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:23.480 It looks like the fourth quarter numbers were kind of good, 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:28.800 but overall, indeed we have had a drop year over year. 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:31.480 Give us a little bit of the detail there. 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:33.760 Yeah, so Tesla had a record quarter. 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.080 They delivered like four hundred and ninety five thousand plus cars, 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:40.440 but like they missed. It was the first year over 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:42.800 year decline in like over a decade. So you know, 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.880 Tesla had warned investors earlier this year that they were 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:50.320 in between two growth waves, and we're seeing that, like, yeah, 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:52.160 they're not growing. I mean, this is and this is 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:54.560 a big problem for Tesla because their lineup is very 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.720 old and their newest model is the cyber Truck. But 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.280 the cyber Truck they don't even break out how many 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:03.160 cars they sold. It's still like lumped in with the 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:05.880 S and the X under other models, which is like 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:08.760 less than five percent of their sales. So they are 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:12.480 not growing and they don't have another car coming in 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:14.840 their lineup. I mean, at some point we'll probably see 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:17.720 the model why refresh, And they've hinted at like a 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:20.040 sort of cheaper car, but everyone thinks that that's just 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:23.320 going to be like a de contented three or y like, So. 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:24.679 The lineup is old. 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:27.440 Elon is bored of making cars, as I've said before, 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:29.600 and like the future of the company is really about 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:33.520 the robotaxi and autonomy and AI and kind of pivoting 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:38.560 away from big volume and toward you know, this robotaxi idea. 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.839 But you know, you're just this is just it's a 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:43.880 big deal for Tesla. This is the first year in 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.040 like a decade that they've not shown growth. 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:46.560 Yeah. 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:50.120 Now, Max, if I were to give you two statements, 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:55.280 you know the part of the year, I think you 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:57.200 would have told me I was crazy at the start 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:02.040 of last year. Statement number one, Tesla's sales growth will 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:07.160 sputter so badly, worse than the company thought, worse than 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.480 analysts on Wall Street thought, so badly that it actually 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.640 posted decline in sales for the first time. As Dana 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:18.520 said in a decade one. Two, the stock will slump 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:22.760 early in the year and then absolutely skyrocket some two 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:27.080 at one point to smash record high. 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:29.440 No, I mean You're right, it's it's kind of crazy. 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:32.000 I mean, on the other hand, what you had, what 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:33.920 you left out of that story is the election of 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:36.440 Donald Trump and the way that that has kind of 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:39.360 impacted the stock price. You have a lot of people 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:42.560 making some sort of Trump trade. We've talked about this 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:46.320 a lot where doesn't feel based in any kind of reality. 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:50.160 It feels like a vibes thing or whatever. And you're 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.160 sort of seeing the limits of that, or the beginnings 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:54.640 of the limits of that, we don't know. So you 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:56.880 have two things going on. One is that, as Dana said, 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.240 Tesla's you know sort of car business has been sort 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:04.320 of stagnating and stagnating, you know, still very large, but 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:06.960 not growing in the way that Elon Musk, you know, 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:08.640 just going back till not too long ago, I was 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.760 talking about we're going to see, you know, roughly fifty 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:13.800 percent growth every year as far as I can see. 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:17.920 So you have this kind of stagnating car business where 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:21.400 he where Elon Musk, despite the cyber truck, despite efforts 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:24.840 to kind of refresh the Model three and you know 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:29.000 eventually other models, it hasn't it isn't appealing enough to 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:31.640 customers keep up these growth rates. And then you have 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:35.120 the question of what Elon musk support is doing with 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.240 car buyers. Dan and I have been writing about this 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:39.640 and talking about this for a long time. But the 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:44.960 possibility that having this kind of trolling, you know, magnified, 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:49.319 you know, constantly waiting into every single crisis he can 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:52.240 find on Twitter, that that could be turning some people off, 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:54.600 and I suspect it is. Although it's it's very hard 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.440 to know how much that's affecting people, Mack, can. 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:00.760 I ask you it is indeed difficult to know exactly 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:02.679 how much. But we're going to keep driving at that 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:03.920 question over the course of the year. 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:06.440 But let me ask you this question. 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:10.280 Safe to say that right now, Tesla and the Broader 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:15.000 muth Empire is the most politicized major company in the 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:15.880 country right now. 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:20.040 Yeah, I can't imagine another's Trump Trump Inc. 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:20.520 Or whatever. 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:22.200 Maybe the only other one. 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:23.560 I mean, my pillow or something. 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:27.400 Okay, but is my pillow I'm not sure Max, is 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.920 my pillow qualifies a major US company? I guess it 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:32.400 depends on how we define major. 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:36.480 Because my next question then would be this, like in 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:40.520 recent history, can we think of any example of a 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:44.160 company of its size one of the largest companies in 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:45.800 this country that. 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:52.680 Is so affiliated with a certain president and a certain party. 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:54.960 I mean, there's an obvious one, which is you know, 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.320 News Corporation slash twenty first Century Fox. You know Rupert 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:00.280 Murdoch his media pile. 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:01.800 Okay, you know. 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:05.040 Where where he has at times, you know, and and 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.679 that that empire has been sort of divided up, and 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.080 you know, the movie studio is no longer part of 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:12.480 the company. But you know where where where Rupert mroc 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:16.560 is very closely allied with one political party and nonetheless 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.880 has managed to have a successful, kind of growing company. 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:22.559 And and so that and I think that sort of 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:24.680 works when you're talking about something like X, where where 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:29.040 we've sort of seen X actually in some in some 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:32.800 ways thrive under Musk's ownership, and of course in some 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.880 way stagnate. But when you're talking about car company, Yeah, 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:38.800 that that's where it's it's much harder to think of 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:39.320 a parallel. 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:42.480 Well, I guess, I guess the the issue is that 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:47.040 they're indeed under that model pursued by Murdoch. There were 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:52.520 enough eyeballs and ears from the conservative from Conservative America 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:57.200 to make that go. Are there enough as you're saying, though, 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:02.160 Max uh drivers conservative drives to make it go uh 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:04.640 for for mosque, And. 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.280 Yeah, I think there was a there was hope. I 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:11.040 think when Elon among sort of like Tesla bulls, and 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.960 people were trying to see a strategy behind you know, 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.160 Elon Musk shift to the right rather than that than 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.160 just like he is ideologically the right, he's expressing his views, 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:22.040 you know, via his money, or that there was some 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:25.000 kind of larger strategy here. The thought was, Okay, maybe 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.200 he's trying to get sort of people in red states 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.680 who have not hitherto embraced electric vehicles to embrace them. 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:34.480 And I think that kind of made sense as a 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:38.760 thought because again, Musk's main customer base has not been 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:43.440 you know, among people in rural areas, people were Trump voters. 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:45.760 But we're just not seeing I don't think we're seeing 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:49.480 yet that that kind of shift, like like the cyber truck, 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:51.960 as Dana has said, has not taken off in the 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:54.840 way that I think Elon Musk hoped, and like some 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.000 of that I think has to do with the difficulty 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:59.920 in manufacturing it. They haven't been able prices maybe as 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.320 you know, much as they would have liked, and as 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:06.000 a result, you have this very expensive luxury vehicle, but 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:10.240 also just because that's not what a lot of consumers want, 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:14.000 and Musk has sort of pivoted the company away from 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:15.040 his own customer base. 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:16.840 But Dan, I just wanted to go back to you. 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.040 I mean that point I was raising with Max about 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:26.800 how much the sales for Tesla have sputtered and how much. 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:29.160 The stock is up. 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:31.520 Even though the stock has given up some of those 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.360 gains over the last week or so and it's a 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:36.720 down again on this. 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.000 Sales report, it still just strikes. 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:43.120 Me, though, that you have a very very large gap 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.680 right now between expectations of what those Trump ties can 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:50.320 deliver for the company and what the reality on the 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:52.680 ground is for this company. 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:55.640 Yeah, but I think, I mean, I'll just say this, 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:57.920 the reality on the ground is still that Tesla is 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.080 the market leader when it comes to selling ev. 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:01.080 In the United States. 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:03.400 Tesla is still in a really good position. And the 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:05.480 other thing to notice about their release today is that 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:08.880 they have a line in there about their energy storage products. 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:12.360 And I keep saying this over and over again, great, 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:16.200 great quarter, Like they have installed a lot of their 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:18.880 batteries and you know, the future is AI. 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:21.240 There's going to be enormous electricity demands. 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:25.120 Energy storage is a key way that utilities are going 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.720 to be able to give us more electricity. And like 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:30.040 Elon has said over and over again that like the 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:32.400 growth and energy storage is going to eclipse that of 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.000 the car business. And so I just would really try 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:38.320 to encourage everyone to expand their understanding of Tesla. It 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:40.760 is not just a car company. It is a battery 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:44.640 company that makes cars and makes standalone energy storage products. 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:46.400 And in twenty twenty five, you're just going to see 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:48.880 them really focus on storage because it's just key to 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:53.120 the whole future of AI and these enormous electricity demands 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:56.560 that the United States has. And so you know, Elon 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:59.120 has said that like the company is in between two 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:01.280 growth waves. So on the one hand, like you would 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:03.960 think that the fact that they have year year sales 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:06.679 decline would be this atrocious thing for the stock, But 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:08.679 look at the stock today. I mean it's down a 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:12.040 little bit, It's not like it's not like down ten percent, 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.440 Like it just doesn't move on fundamentals. 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:15.840 It moves on vibes. 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:18.600 And like the vibe is that like inauguration is in 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.600 nineteen days, and like, I'm sure Elon will be there, 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:23.960 and like I wouldn't be surprised if like Trump rolls 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:26.040 through the inauguration in the cyber truck. You know, like 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:31.400 we're just gonna see some crazy things going forward. 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:35.800 We need to talk about one more thing in our 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:41.760 emergency pod here and Max as usual on such subjects. 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:44.440 I know absolutely nothing. 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:48.240 Because I was on vacation for a while and I 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.199 was trying to tune out as best I can. But 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:55.360 I do understand that there's been a disturbance in the 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:57.000 Elon magaverse. 0:17:57.200 --> 0:17:57.920 Tell me all about it. 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.720 Well, you just use those two turns kind of almost 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.760 as synonymous Elon magaversus, as if they're won. But what 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:07.880 we learned over the Christmas holiday is that they very 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:11.560 much aren't. And if you're thinking about kind of threats 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.240 to Elon Musk and Elon Musk's empire from the left, 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.960 you know, because people who don't like Donald Trump are mad, 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.119 and you know they're they're gonna buy a Hyundai instead 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.680 of a Tesla, you need to also start thinking about 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.679 threats to Musk and his empire from the right. So 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:29.280 what happened is that Laura Lumer who's a kind of 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:32.639 a far right activist. She's sort of been around Maga 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:36.359 world for almost a decade. Has you know, immigration is 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:38.480 a big issue for her. She's been banned on Twitter. 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:40.800 She's one of the people that Elon Musk brought back. 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:46.280 She posted a message on x criticizing one of Trump's 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:50.280 kind of like tech adjacent appointees. This guy, Swiram Krishnan, 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.000 who is a venture capitalist, was part of the kind 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:57.920 of Elon Musk kitchen cabinet during the Twitter you know, 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.719 when he took over Twitter, and she based said that, like, 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:05.720 this is a career leftist who and is part of 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:10.119 this tech takeover of Trump World. Now that's that's not 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.520 entirely true. Chrishnan isn't isn't really a career leftist, but 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:15.840 but she was kind of right that you've you've had 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:19.560 a bunch of these sort of Elon adjacent figures with 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:24.000 very few connections to to the magavers who are now 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.959 in positions of influence. And this kicked off an enormous 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:32.320 Twitter war between Musk and Laura Lumer and Steve Bannon 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:34.399 and a bunch of other figures on the on the 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:36.320 kind of far right, the kind of kind of og 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:39.800 magas over this person who they see as a as 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:43.159 a pretender. And so that's where we are today. They're 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:43.920 still fighting and. 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:47.840 Is this person has is Trump uh wavered at all 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:49.680 in the nomination of this person? 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:53.679 No Trump, And in fact Trump has kind of in 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:58.080 various ways posted some signs of agreement with Musk. He 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:00.360 he called up reporter from the New York Post and 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:05.120 mentioned his support over the H one B visa program, 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:06.920 which is which was which kind of became the core 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:07.560 of the argument. 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:09.840 Max remind us ver a second, what exactly the H 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:10.919 one B visa is? 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:11.720 All right? 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:16.640 So, the H one B visa is a way that 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:22.760 tech companies and other companies bring in skilled workers on 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:24.840 a temporary basis from outside of the US. It's a 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:30.439 temporary visa program. It's really popular among tech companies. Facebook, Google, 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.800