1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: Well, Jlon muskis now the richest person on the planet. 3 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 3: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 3: controlled by one. 5 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 2: Man, starting his own artificial intelligence company. 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: Well, he's a legitimate super genius. 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 4: I mean legitimate. 8 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: He says. 9 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 5: He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 10 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 5: be different. 11 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 6: He'll vote Republican. 12 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 13 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: on him. Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's 14 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: done nothing. 15 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 6: Anything he does he is fascinating the people. 16 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 5: Welcome to elan Ak, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk, Thursday, 17 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 5: January second. I'm your host, David Papadoppolis. We are coming 18 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 5: to you today because there has been so much news 19 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,839 Speaker 5: in the Musk universe that we decided it couldn't wait 20 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 5: until Tuesday. Let's begin with the most grave news. Yesterday 21 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 5: in Las Vegas, a cyber truck seemingly packed with explosives 22 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 5: detonated outside of a Trump Hotel property. Then this morning, 23 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 5: surprising Tesla sales numbers came out and they sent the 24 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 5: stock sharply downward. But before all of this, there was 25 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 5: a disturbance in the MAGA world, a spat over a 26 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 5: certain kind of American work visa I brought Elon Musk 27 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 5: to the brink of a cage match with Trump acolytes 28 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 5: like Steve Bannon and Laura Lumer. Expletives were exchanged, ex 29 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 5: accounts were demonetized, and Trump himself had the weigh in, 30 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 5: which oddly hasn't really stopped the fighting. So to discuss 31 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 5: all this, I'm joined by our regulars, Max Chafkin and 32 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:51,639 Speaker 5: Dana Hallt. 33 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 4: Max and Dana. Happy twenty twenty five. 34 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,639 Speaker 2: Happy New Year, David, Happy New Year, Dana. 35 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: Great to be here. 36 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 4: Okay, So now we're recording around noon. 37 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 5: New York time, and this is a fluid story. New 38 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:12,119 Speaker 5: developments keep emerging. But Dana Hella, at this point, what 39 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 5: exactly do we know about the cyber truck that exploded 40 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 5: outside that Trump property. 41 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 7: So the latest is that a man packed this cyber 42 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 7: truck with firework mortars and camp fuel canisters and was 43 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 7: driving up and down in Las Vegas and then parked 44 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,399 Speaker 7: the car in front of this Trump hotel and then 45 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 7: the car exploded and he died in the process, and 46 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 7: other people were injured. Thankfully, no one severely injured, and 47 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 7: the FBI is kind of widening its probe to see 48 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 7: if there are any potential links between this incident and 49 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 7: the horrible attack that happened in New Orleans also on 50 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 7: New Year's Day. Elon Musk has kind of jumped in 51 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 7: and is working very closely with the authorities. And the 52 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 7: thing to remember about Tesla vehicles is that Tesla has 53 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 7: a lot of data about the vehicles where they like, 54 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 7: for where they were charged, for example, So Tesla can 55 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 7: go back and see this guy's route from Colorado to 56 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 7: Las Vegas and they will know where which superchargers he use. 57 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 7: So I think my sense is that Tesla's working very 58 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 7: closely with the Las Vegas authorities. And you know, Musk 59 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 7: has kind of made the most of this moment, you know, 60 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 7: arguing that the damage would have been much worse, that 61 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 7: the cyber truck is so strong that it contained the 62 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 7: blast and helped save lives, and you know, the cyber 63 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 7: truck is kind of this tank from the future, and 64 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 7: so in some ways, like you know, they are kind 65 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 7: I mean, I don't want to go so far as 66 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 7: to say that Musk is using this as a marketing scheme, 67 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 7: but he is kind of making the most of the 68 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 7: fact that only the driver of the truck died in 69 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 7: this whole event. 70 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 2: I mean, Musk is doing what he always does, which 71 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 2: is take whatever is going on in the news and 72 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 2: comment on it. You know, He's he sort of has 73 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: this instinctive ability to like pick up on what the 74 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: big story is. This is, you know, unfortunately along with 75 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 2: the attack in New Orleans. It's a big story, and 76 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 2: he is, as Dana said, like kind of commenting on 77 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: some of this stuff in what I think most people 78 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 2: see a sort of poor taste, like sort of again 79 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 2: promoting the cyber truck as like the best deterrent to 80 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 2: this kind of attack because it's so strong and powerful, 81 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 2: which maybe is getting a little ahead of the story, 82 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 2: although it is, Hey, it's great that you know, nobody 83 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 2: was seriously hurt in Las Vegas, so. 84 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 5: Max, it doesn't theme like a random thing that this truck, 85 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 5: this cyber truck was used outside of Trump property, given 86 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 5: the strong link between the two men at this point. 87 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 5: But we do not actually know that at this point, 88 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 5: at this point, that it was chosen on purpose. 89 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 2: Correct, No, we don't, and we don't really know anything 90 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 2: about this attack. And I mean, that's that's you know, 91 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 2: beyond what's been reported and basically what Dana has has outlined. 92 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 2: Of course, you know, Elon Musk he has become a visible, 93 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 2: you know, sign of the new administration, and this cyber 94 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 2: truck is the probably the most you know visible of 95 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 2: the cars, like it sort of looks the most distinctive 96 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 2: by design, so it's it's not hard to imagine that 97 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 2: that there was some sort of connection here. He's also 98 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 2: been complaining about media reporting, essentially using this as like 99 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 2: another you know case in his very extensive, you know 100 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 2: file against the media, claiming that because some news outlets 101 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 2: put cyber truck in the headline of this car bombing attack, 102 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 2: that was somehow evidence of unfairness or or that you know, 103 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 2: they're trying to imply that there was something wrong with 104 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 2: the cyber truck, which is again I think that's part 105 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 2: of the reason he was sort of going out of 106 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: his way to like talk up the I guess like 107 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 2: bomb smothering capabilities of this vehicle. 108 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 5: I suppose it's germane or seen as Germane, because the 109 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 5: cyber truck, as you're saying, is a symbol of Tassel 110 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 5: and Elon Musk and and that is a Trump property. 111 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 5: And I guess just people are just trying, you know, 112 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 5: reading a link between the two. I would suppose that's 113 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 5: why it's remaining in the head line. 114 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 7: To Max's point, Tesla crashes and fires always get headlines, 115 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 7: whereas like, you know, like there are car crashes every 116 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 7: day and we and you don't hear about them. And 117 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 7: so Elon's point is that this is media clickbait, just 118 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 7: using Tesla as an egregious reason. You know that the 119 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 7: New Orleans attack wasn't you know, Ford pickup truck used 120 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 7: in you know, New Orleans attack. I mean, we don't care. 121 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 7: Like so, I think that Tesla does have a beef 122 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 7: to grind, which is that, you know, like their vehicles 123 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 7: are always in the headline whenever there's an accident, whenever 124 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 7: there's a fire, whenever someone dies in a car, and 125 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 7: we don't see that with other vehicles so much. 126 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 4: That's interesting. 127 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 5: But is that a reaction to Pethla It felf the 128 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 5: branded THELF or is that fear of the electric battery 129 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 5: in general? 130 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: It's both. It's both. It's both. 131 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 7: Lithium ion batteries when they catch on fire, tend to 132 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 7: burn for a very long time, and so like the NTSP, 133 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 7: it has always been very interested in. 134 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: Lithium ion battery fires. 135 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 7: Tesla has the most electric cars on the road, so 136 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 7: you know, just just by virtue of their market size, 137 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,559 Speaker 7: you're going to hear more about those accidents. And then 138 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 7: similarly with autopilot, there have been several crashes involving autopilot 139 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 7: that NITZA has also looked at. So it's like this 140 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 7: never ending loop where because regulatory agencies are interested in 141 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 7: these crashes, they make headlines. But then also because the 142 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 7: headlines get traffic, a lot of news organizations do focus 143 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 7: on the crashes and the name and model and make 144 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 7: of the car when they don't in other instances with 145 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 7: other automakers, and that's been an issue that Tesla has 146 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 7: been really pissed off about for quite some time. 147 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: That said, the. 148 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 7: Fact that it was a cyber truck and Trump tower, 149 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 7: it's like it's very newsy. 150 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: You've got some keywords there. 151 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:47,679 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, well we will. 152 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 5: I'm sure come back to this next week as as 153 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 5: new developments. 154 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 4: Warrant. 155 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 5: Now, Dana, you are actually on vacation today, but you're 156 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 5: so dedicated to the story and to the news including 157 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 5: didn't miss. 158 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: An emergency episode. 159 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 5: Couldn't miss an emergency episode, and we thank you for that, 160 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 5: as do our listeners. Now, there was also this morning 161 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 5: there were fourth quarter sales. 162 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 4: They came out. 163 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 5: It looks like the fourth quarter numbers were kind of good, 164 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 5: but overall, indeed we have had a drop year over year. 165 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 4: Give us a little bit of the detail there. 166 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, so Tesla had a record quarter. 167 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 7: They delivered like four hundred and ninety five thousand plus cars, 168 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 7: but like they missed. It was the first year over 169 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 7: year decline in like over a decade. So you know, 170 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 7: Tesla had warned investors earlier this year that they were 171 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 7: in between two growth waves, and we're seeing that, like, yeah, 172 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 7: they're not growing. I mean, this is and this is 173 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 7: a big problem for Tesla because their lineup is very 174 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 7: old and their newest model is the cyber Truck. But 175 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 7: the cyber Truck they don't even break out how many 176 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 7: cars they sold. It's still like lumped in with the 177 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 7: S and the X under other models, which is like 178 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 7: less than five percent of their sales. So they are 179 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 7: not growing and they don't have another car coming in 180 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 7: their lineup. I mean, at some point we'll probably see 181 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 7: the model why refresh, And they've hinted at like a 182 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 7: sort of cheaper car, but everyone thinks that that's just 183 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 7: going to be like a de contented three or y like, So. 184 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 1: The lineup is old. 185 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 7: Elon is bored of making cars, as I've said before, 186 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 7: and like the future of the company is really about 187 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 7: the robotaxi and autonomy and AI and kind of pivoting 188 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 7: away from big volume and toward you know, this robotaxi idea. 189 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 7: But you know, you're just this is just it's a 190 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 7: big deal for Tesla. This is the first year in 191 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 7: like a decade that they've not shown growth. 192 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 4: Yeah. 193 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 5: Now, Max, if I were to give you two statements, 194 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 5: you know the part of the year, I think you 195 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 5: would have told me I was crazy at the start 196 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 5: of last year. Statement number one, Tesla's sales growth will 197 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 5: sputter so badly, worse than the company thought, worse than 198 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 5: analysts on Wall Street thought, so badly that it actually 199 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 5: posted decline in sales for the first time. As Dana 200 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 5: said in a decade one. Two, the stock will slump 201 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 5: early in the year and then absolutely skyrocket some two 202 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 5: at one point to smash record high. 203 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 2: No, I mean You're right, it's it's kind of crazy. 204 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 2: I mean, on the other hand, what you had, what 205 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 2: you left out of that story is the election of 206 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 2: Donald Trump and the way that that has kind of 207 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 2: impacted the stock price. You have a lot of people 208 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 2: making some sort of Trump trade. We've talked about this 209 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 2: a lot where doesn't feel based in any kind of reality. 210 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 2: It feels like a vibes thing or whatever. And you're 211 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 2: sort of seeing the limits of that, or the beginnings 212 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 2: of the limits of that, we don't know. So you 213 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 2: have two things going on. One is that, as Dana said, 214 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 2: Tesla's you know sort of car business has been sort 215 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 2: of stagnating and stagnating, you know, still very large, but 216 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 2: not growing in the way that Elon Musk, you know, 217 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 2: just going back till not too long ago, I was 218 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 2: talking about we're going to see, you know, roughly fifty 219 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 2: percent growth every year as far as I can see. 220 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 2: So you have this kind of stagnating car business where 221 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 2: he where Elon Musk, despite the cyber truck, despite efforts 222 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 2: to kind of refresh the Model three and you know 223 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 2: eventually other models, it hasn't it isn't appealing enough to 224 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 2: customers keep up these growth rates. And then you have 225 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 2: the question of what Elon musk support is doing with 226 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 2: car buyers. Dan and I have been writing about this 227 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 2: and talking about this for a long time. But the 228 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 2: possibility that having this kind of trolling, you know, magnified, 229 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 2: you know, constantly waiting into every single crisis he can 230 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 2: find on Twitter, that that could be turning some people off, 231 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 2: and I suspect it is. Although it's it's very hard 232 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 2: to know how much that's affecting people, Mack, can. 233 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 5: I ask you it is indeed difficult to know exactly 234 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 5: how much. But we're going to keep driving at that 235 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 5: question over the course of the year. 236 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 4: But let me ask you this question. 237 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 5: Safe to say that right now, Tesla and the Broader 238 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 5: muth Empire is the most politicized major company in the 239 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 5: country right now. 240 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't imagine another's Trump Trump Inc. 241 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: Or whatever. 242 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 2: Maybe the only other one. 243 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: I mean, my pillow or something. 244 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 5: Okay, but is my pillow I'm not sure Max, is 245 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 5: my pillow qualifies a major US company? I guess it 246 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 5: depends on how we define major. 247 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 6: Because my next question then would be this, like in 248 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 6: recent history, can we think of any example of a 249 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 6: company of its size one of the largest companies in 250 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 6: this country that. 251 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 5: Is so affiliated with a certain president and a certain party. 252 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 2: I mean, there's an obvious one, which is you know, 253 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 2: News Corporation slash twenty first Century Fox. You know Rupert 254 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 2: Murdoch his media pile. 255 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 4: Okay, you know. 256 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 2: Where where he has at times, you know, and and 257 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 2: that that empire has been sort of divided up, and 258 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 2: you know, the movie studio is no longer part of 259 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 2: the company. But you know where where where Rupert mroc 260 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 2: is very closely allied with one political party and nonetheless 261 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 2: has managed to have a successful, kind of growing company. 262 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 2: And and so that and I think that sort of 263 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 2: works when you're talking about something like X, where where 264 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 2: we've sort of seen X actually in some in some 265 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: ways thrive under Musk's ownership, and of course in some 266 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 2: way stagnate. But when you're talking about car company, Yeah, 267 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 2: that that's where it's it's much harder to think of 268 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 2: a parallel. 269 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 5: Well, I guess, I guess the the issue is that 270 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 5: they're indeed under that model pursued by Murdoch. There were 271 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 5: enough eyeballs and ears from the conservative from Conservative America 272 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 5: to make that go. Are there enough as you're saying, though, 273 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 5: Max uh drivers conservative drives to make it go uh 274 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 5: for for mosque, And. 275 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there was a there was hope. I 276 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 2: think when Elon among sort of like Tesla bulls, and 277 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 2: people were trying to see a strategy behind you know, 278 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 2: Elon Musk shift to the right rather than that than 279 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 2: just like he is ideologically the right, he's expressing his views, 280 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 2: you know, via his money, or that there was some 281 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 2: kind of larger strategy here. The thought was, Okay, maybe 282 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 2: he's trying to get sort of people in red states 283 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 2: who have not hitherto embraced electric vehicles to embrace them. 284 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 2: And I think that kind of made sense as a 285 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 2: thought because again, Musk's main customer base has not been 286 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 2: you know, among people in rural areas, people were Trump voters. 287 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 2: But we're just not seeing I don't think we're seeing 288 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 2: yet that that kind of shift, like like the cyber truck, 289 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 2: as Dana has said, has not taken off in the 290 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 2: way that I think Elon Musk hoped, and like some 291 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 2: of that I think has to do with the difficulty 292 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 2: in manufacturing it. They haven't been able prices maybe as 293 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 2: you know, much as they would have liked, and as 294 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 2: a result, you have this very expensive luxury vehicle, but 295 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 2: also just because that's not what a lot of consumers want, 296 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 2: and Musk has sort of pivoted the company away from 297 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 2: his own customer base. 298 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 4: But Dan, I just wanted to go back to you. 299 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 5: I mean that point I was raising with Max about 300 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 5: how much the sales for Tesla have sputtered and how much. 301 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 4: The stock is up. 302 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 5: Even though the stock has given up some of those 303 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 5: gains over the last week or so and it's a 304 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 5: down again on this. 305 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 4: Sales report, it still just strikes. 306 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 5: Me, though, that you have a very very large gap 307 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 5: right now between expectations of what those Trump ties can 308 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 5: deliver for the company and what the reality on the 309 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 5: ground is for this company. 310 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 7: Yeah, but I think, I mean, I'll just say this, 311 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 7: the reality on the ground is still that Tesla is 312 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 7: the market leader when it comes to selling ev. 313 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: In the United States. 314 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 7: Tesla is still in a really good position. And the 315 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 7: other thing to notice about their release today is that 316 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 7: they have a line in there about their energy storage products. 317 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 7: And I keep saying this over and over again, great, 318 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 7: great quarter, Like they have installed a lot of their 319 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 7: batteries and you know, the future is AI. 320 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: There's going to be enormous electricity demands. 321 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 7: Energy storage is a key way that utilities are going 322 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 7: to be able to give us more electricity. And like 323 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 7: Elon has said over and over again that like the 324 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 7: growth and energy storage is going to eclipse that of 325 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 7: the car business. And so I just would really try 326 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 7: to encourage everyone to expand their understanding of Tesla. It 327 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 7: is not just a car company. It is a battery 328 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 7: company that makes cars and makes standalone energy storage products. 329 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 7: And in twenty twenty five, you're just going to see 330 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 7: them really focus on storage because it's just key to 331 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 7: the whole future of AI and these enormous electricity demands 332 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 7: that the United States has. And so you know, Elon 333 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 7: has said that like the company is in between two 334 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 7: growth waves. So on the one hand, like you would 335 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 7: think that the fact that they have year year sales 336 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 7: decline would be this atrocious thing for the stock, But 337 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 7: look at the stock today. I mean it's down a 338 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 7: little bit, It's not like it's not like down ten percent, 339 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 7: Like it just doesn't move on fundamentals. 340 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: It moves on vibes. 341 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 7: And like the vibe is that like inauguration is in 342 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 7: nineteen days, and like, I'm sure Elon will be there, 343 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 7: and like I wouldn't be surprised if like Trump rolls 344 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 7: through the inauguration in the cyber truck. You know, like 345 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 7: we're just gonna see some crazy things going forward. 346 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 5: We need to talk about one more thing in our 347 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 5: emergency pod here and Max as usual on such subjects. 348 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 4: I know absolutely nothing. 349 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 5: Because I was on vacation for a while and I 350 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 5: was trying to tune out as best I can. But 351 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 5: I do understand that there's been a disturbance in the 352 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 5: Elon magaverse. 353 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 4: Tell me all about it. 354 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 2: Well, you just use those two turns kind of almost 355 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 2: as synonymous Elon magaversus, as if they're won. But what 356 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 2: we learned over the Christmas holiday is that they very 357 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 2: much aren't. And if you're thinking about kind of threats 358 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 2: to Elon Musk and Elon Musk's empire from the left, 359 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 2: you know, because people who don't like Donald Trump are mad, 360 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 2: and you know they're they're gonna buy a Hyundai instead 361 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 2: of a Tesla, you need to also start thinking about 362 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 2: threats to Musk and his empire from the right. So 363 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 2: what happened is that Laura Lumer who's a kind of 364 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 2: a far right activist. She's sort of been around Maga 365 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 2: world for almost a decade. Has you know, immigration is 366 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 2: a big issue for her. She's been banned on Twitter. 367 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 2: She's one of the people that Elon Musk brought back. 368 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 2: She posted a message on x criticizing one of Trump's 369 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 2: kind of like tech adjacent appointees. This guy, Swiram Krishnan, 370 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 2: who is a venture capitalist, was part of the kind 371 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 2: of Elon Musk kitchen cabinet during the Twitter you know, 372 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,719 Speaker 2: when he took over Twitter, and she based said that, like, 373 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 2: this is a career leftist who and is part of 374 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 2: this tech takeover of Trump World. Now that's that's not 375 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 2: entirely true. Chrishnan isn't isn't really a career leftist, but 376 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 2: but she was kind of right that you've you've had 377 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 2: a bunch of these sort of Elon adjacent figures with 378 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 2: very few connections to to the magavers who are now 379 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,959 Speaker 2: in positions of influence. And this kicked off an enormous 380 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 2: Twitter war between Musk and Laura Lumer and Steve Bannon 381 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 2: and a bunch of other figures on the on the 382 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 2: kind of far right, the kind of kind of og 383 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 2: magas over this person who they see as a as 384 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 2: a pretender. And so that's where we are today. They're 385 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 2: still fighting and. 386 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 5: Is this person has is Trump uh wavered at all 387 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 5: in the nomination of this person? 388 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 2: No Trump, And in fact Trump has kind of in 389 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 2: various ways posted some signs of agreement with Musk. He 390 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,360 Speaker 2: he called up reporter from the New York Post and 391 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 2: mentioned his support over the H one B visa program, 392 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 2: which is which was which kind of became the core 393 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 2: of the argument. 394 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 5: Max remind us ver a second, what exactly the H 395 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 5: one B visa is? 396 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 4: All right? 397 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 2: So, the H one B visa is a way that 398 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 2: tech companies and other companies bring in skilled workers on 399 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 2: a temporary basis from outside of the US. It's a 400 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 2: temporary visa program. It's really popular among tech companies. Facebook, Google, 401 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 2: and Tesla make a lot of use of this. Elon 402 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 2: Musk is a big fan. And this became kind of 403 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 2: like the focal point of the disagreement because in the 404 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 2: past Donald Trump had been like a big critic of 405 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 2: H one B visas. Elon Musk is apparently a big fan, 406 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 2: and he kind of went nuclear in defense of this thing. 407 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 2: You know, basically just going just doing what he does, 408 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 2: which is like post a lot of inflammatory stuff, essentially 409 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 2: calling anyone who posed him you know, some slur you know. 410 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: Should I read it? 411 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 7: Should I read out the read out the tweet? 412 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 4: You better do it, Dan, hate us with it? Dan? 413 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 7: Okay, this is Elon's tweet from over the holidays. The 414 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 7: reason I'm in America, along with so many critical people 415 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 7: who built SpaceX, Tesla and hundreds of other companies that 416 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 7: made America strong is because of h one. B take 417 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 7: a big step back and yourself in the face. I 418 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 7: will go to war on this issue. 419 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 1: The likes of which you cannot imagine. 420 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 7: So yeah, I mean he put a stake in the 421 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 7: ground and that that's like a real rift with the 422 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 7: original MAGA people who are all like America first, we 423 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 7: don't we want no immigration whatsoever. 424 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 5: So I want to understand this here, I'm to take 425 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 5: a well it's not me, but if I were to 426 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 5: you push you take a big state back, big step back, 427 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 5: and then you yourself. 428 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 2: In the face, Yes, world's richest man. 429 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 5: Well but okay, so you know you Max earlier, you 430 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 5: said Bannon jumped into the fray coming to the support 431 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 5: of Laura Lumer. 432 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 4: I think we have some tape from him. Let's listen 433 00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 4: to it. Now. 434 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 3: This is central to how they gut it the middle 435 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 3: class in this country. And we haven't fought these battles 436 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 3: over years and years and years to allow American citizens 437 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 3: of every race, ethnicity, religion be gutted by the sociopathic 438 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 3: overlords in Silicon Valley. So no, David Sachs and Vivek 439 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 3: Ramaswami and Elon musk nor your complete collapse and you're thinking, oh, we're. 440 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 4: Just trying to reform it. We're just trying to have 441 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 4: a conversation. We're on it from it. 442 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 3: No, there's no reformation, no reform. We want it gone. 443 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 3: We demand that it's gone, and we're going to fight 444 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 3: for this and not just gone. I've got another alternative. 445 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 3: We want reparations for the tech workers that you stole 446 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 3: their lives. 447 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 5: I mean, this sounds pretty sporty. I suspect this is 448 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 5: going to be a storyline throughout twenty twenty five. 449 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 2: I don't know that H one B specifically is the storyline, 450 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 2: despite Bennet's promise, right, But I think what this is 451 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 2: is one of many issues where they are going to 452 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 2: be big device. I mean, the thing that's going on 453 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 2: here is Elon Musk and Donald Trump are like not 454 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 2: natural allies, and yet Elon Musk has extremely close access, 455 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 2: you know, to the President elect, and like those two 456 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 2: things are creating problems with people who also want influence 457 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 2: and access and do not necessarily favor policies that you know, 458 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 2: tech companies favor. 459 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: So we could be talking we're. 460 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 2: Talking about you know, H one B, which is a 461 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 2: thing that tech companies like that Elon Musk likes. We 462 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 2: could be talking about crypto rules or AI rules or 463 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 2: Elon Musk's defense contracts. And what's so interesting about this 464 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 2: dispute to me anyway, is that Bannon and Lumer and 465 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 2: some of these other folks are actually keying in to 466 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 2: this kind of like larger question. 467 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: You know. 468 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 2: One of the one of the tweets during this back 469 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 2: and forth uh with Laura Lumer, she called Elon Musk 470 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 2: a stage five clinger. 471 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 4: Helped me out, helped me out, Max. What's the stage five? 472 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 2: I think the implication is he's spending too much time 473 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 2: at mar A Lago and so and and so, like, 474 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 2: you know, it's like they've gotten a few zingers and 475 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 2: they've they've pointed out a few things that are sort 476 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 2: of you know, obviously true, like Elon Musk does not 477 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 2: see one to eye with the kind of traditional magabase 478 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 2: in so many ways. So like this is I don't 479 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 2: know if H one B is the thing, but this 480 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 2: is going to be a thing for sure. 481 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 7: Yeah, And they see him as like a Johnny cum Litley. 482 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 7: I mean, the people that were with you know, Trump 483 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 7: early on and during his first campaign, like they don't 484 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 7: really like the fact that like Musk and like the 485 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 7: Silicon Valley guys are now interlopers in the in their scene. 486 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 7: And so there's this like sort of old guard new 487 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 7: guard like battle for power, like Lumer got kicked off 488 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 7: the campaign trail and where it whereas like Elon was 489 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 7: like campaigning for Trump, you know, both at Butler and 490 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,719 Speaker 7: at Madison Square Garden and so so it's just you know, 491 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 7: the battle for proximity and access, but also like who's 492 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 7: the real og. I mean, I think that people that 493 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 7: were with Trump from early on are really resentful of 494 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 7: these guys and their and their power. 495 00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:58,400 Speaker 4: Now. 496 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 2: I think these are This is related to the other 497 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 2: two stories we just talked about, Like Elon Musk has 498 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 2: made a choice when he endorsed Donald Trump, and when 499 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 2: he went all in on the on doing so, and 500 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 2: you know, giving you know, hundreds of billions of dollars, 501 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 2: becoming his biggest donor, putting the Maga hat on, and 502 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 2: like we are seeing kind of with all three of 503 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 2: these stories, some of the consequences of that choice, like 504 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 2: the cyber truck now is has become a symbol of Trump, 505 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 2: who is a controvers controversial symbol. We're seeing potentially left 506 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,679 Speaker 2: wing buyers not want to buy Tesla's and now on 507 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 2: the right we're seeing buyers like it. In a way, 508 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 2: Elon Musk is, he's never been more powerful. He's at 509 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 2: the arm of the future president of the United States. 510 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 2: Tesla Stock, as you said, is way way the heck up. 511 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 2: On the other hand, he really feels like he's in 512 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 2: an ever smaller political box where you have the left 513 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 2: on one side and the kind of far right on 514 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 2: the other. 515 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 5: Yeah. So, I mean it is a great point that 516 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 5: you know, this gamble he's made on Trump has worked 517 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 5: out in me anyways spectacularly well so far. But it 518 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 5: absolutely is simultaneously an incredible blessing for him and also 519 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 5: a curse that brings its risks and its potential downsides. Mac, 520 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 5: Can I give you a small assignment before we get 521 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 5: back on next week? 522 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:21,239 Speaker 4: Can I? 523 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 5: Can I ask you to try to walk, you know, 524 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 5: work through and understand the mechanics of that that taking 525 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 5: a big step back and. 526 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 4: Then putting yourself in the face and then report back to. 527 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 5: Okay, I'll come equips with white boys. 528 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: Mac. 529 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 5: The mail keeps coming in, uh to elon incot Bloomberg 530 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 5: dot end. 531 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 2: That's right, I've been really enjoying. Are we going to 532 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 2: read those now? We're gonna wait till We're not going to. 533 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 4: Read them now. 534 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,360 Speaker 5: This is just a teas to say that they keep 535 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 5: coming in, keep sending them in thoughts, ideas, things you love, 536 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 5: things you hate, bumper sticker ideas, feud ideas and so 537 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 5: on and so forth. And we will dig into the mailbox, 538 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 5: uh next week, or I should say we will dig 539 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 5: into the mail bag. We're calling it a mail bag 540 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 5: or a mail box. 541 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: What's the email address? 542 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 4: Again? The mail bag? 543 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 2: What is it you want to ink at? Bloomberg dot net. 544 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 4: Danna, thank you so much for joining us. Now go 545 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 4: enjoy the rest of your day off. 546 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 1: I will thank you. 547 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 5: This episode was produced by Stacey Wong. Anna Masarrakas is 548 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 5: our editor and Rayhan Harmanski our senior editor. The idea 549 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 5: for this very show also came from Rayhan. Blake Maples 550 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 5: handles engineering, and David Purcell fact checks. Our supervising producer 551 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 5: is Magnus Hendrickson. 552 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 4: The Elon Inc. 553 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 5: Theme is written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiera. 554 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 5: Brendan Francis Nunham is our executive producer, and Stage Bauman 555 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 5: is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks as 556 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 5: always to our supporters Joel Weber and Bradstone. I'm David Papadopolis. 557 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 5: If you have a minute, rate and review our show, 558 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 5: it'll help other listeners find us. 559 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 4: See you next week.