1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: Walcome in wins and lost his podcast without kick. Appreciate 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: all of you hanging out with us. We've got a 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,319 Speaker 1: special Saturday edition of the podcast today for a lot 4 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: of you. There was a a wild story on Friday 5 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: which illuminated many of the hypocrisies that currently exist in 6 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: the sporting universe, particularly with the n B, A and 7 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: ESPN and what I would call the woke center universe 8 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,159 Speaker 1: of the far left wing sports that is trying to 9 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: take over all of the discussion and a lot of 10 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:34,959 Speaker 1: that centator around Missouri Senator Josh Holly, who completely called uh, 11 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: the NBA and ESPN on their hypocrisies and he's joining 12 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: us now. Senator. First of all, UH, bravo, because Jason 13 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: Witlock and myself have been talking about a lot of 14 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: the issues that you brought to a head in a 15 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: way UH that that that frankly outside of the media 16 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,279 Speaker 1: I have not seen. So we'll get into a lot 17 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: of that, But first I just want to say thanks 18 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: for actually taking the step and illuminate aiding what is 19 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 1: to me a glaring and transparent is example of hypocrisy 20 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: in the world of sports. No, we'll you bet, and 21 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: thanks for having me thanks for all of the great 22 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 1: work and coverage that you're providing. An out kick. All right, 23 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: so let's dive in. I like to start off by 24 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: kind of letting people figure out the background of who 25 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,199 Speaker 1: we're talking to. And we're gonna get into the China 26 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: and the NBA debacle, which I know you've been a 27 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: part of, and I believe you were in Hong Kong 28 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: viewing the protest for yourself back in October of last year. 29 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 1: And for people out there who are like, well, we'll 30 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: get into that, but this is something that you have 31 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:36,919 Speaker 1: been talking about. This something that I've been talking about 32 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: for a long time, even before uh, the NBA got involved. 33 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,839 Speaker 1: We're gonna get to China and the United States relationship 34 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: in a second, But first of all, your background. I'm 35 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: kind of fascinated by this. You went to, if I'm 36 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: not mistaken, Stanford undergrad and then to Yale Law and 37 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: you went to Stanford coming out of a school in 38 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: Kansas City. But after having grown up in Missouri, was 39 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: it a culture shock for you to travel from Missouri 40 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: all the way out to Palo Alto to Stanford. And 41 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: the reason why I asked is I grew up in 42 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,519 Speaker 1: Nashville and then went away to college in Washington, d C. 43 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: And even growing up in Nashville, I just wasn't prepared 44 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: for what the East Coast would be like. I'm curious 45 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: if the West Coast was an initial culture shock for 46 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: you and what you thought about Stanford while you were 47 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: out there. Yeah, no, it was the culture shock for sure. Uh. 48 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: I grew up in a in the town of uh, 49 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: not quite five thousand people in rural Missouri, at which 50 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: I'm really proud of. I mean, I'm a small town 51 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: boy and my wife and I in Missouri. I live 52 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: and now in a small town Ozark, Missouri there, so uh, 53 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,959 Speaker 1: you know, proud of that background. And went to Katholic 54 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: high school as you say, and that casey, I grew 55 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: up at this way. I grew up reading Whitlock because 56 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: he was at the Star when I was in high school. Yes, 57 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: I don't know if that makes me younger him over 58 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: or maybe both, but ye came that later anyhow, But yeah, 59 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 1: that's my background. Also grew up playing sports. Sports were 60 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: an important part of my life, and as there are 61 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: for a lot of a lot of kids everywhere, but 62 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: especially small town kids. So I started playing baseball when 63 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: I was five, and then football was the big one. 64 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: Though my dad actually played football at a little college 65 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: of Kansas, and so I I grew up hearing stories 66 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: about that. So I started playing peewee football with the 67 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: pad and all when I would believe it was eight 68 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 1: seven or eight was the first time I could do it, 69 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: and I played all through high school. And I wanted 70 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: to play in college, you know, is one that was 71 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: like a lot of guys I call, man, I'm going 72 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: to play in college. And it wasn't good enough to 73 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: do that. But I had a good college experience. But 74 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: yet to your to your point, it was it was 75 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: certainly a different culture. And uh, you know, I'm glad 76 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: for my years at Stanford and Yale. And I often 77 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:46,119 Speaker 1: say these days, I'm pretty critical of people who, uh 78 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: the elites as I as I say, who go to 79 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: schools like that. And people sometimes say to me, well, 80 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: how why did you say that, I mean, you went there, 81 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: And my answer is, yeah, I did, And so I 82 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: know exactly what they think. I mean, don't tell me 83 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: that these people don't look down many of them on 84 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: folks who have the kind of background that you and 85 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: I have, and folks who worked for a living. I mean, 86 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: I know what they think because I went there. I've 87 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: heard it all and I've seen it, and uh, you 88 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: know it was it was good for me to clarify 89 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: my own beliefs during those times, to clarify what I 90 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: thought I'd kind of been put through the tests, because 91 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: I can tell you when you're a when you're a 92 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: Midwestern conservative going to those schools, you do not get 93 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: a free pass. I mean, as as you know, and 94 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: you've got to learn to defend yourself. And so that 95 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: was all good. So you talk about growing up a 96 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: fan of sports and playing sports. What were your teams? 97 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: Were you a big Missouri fan? Were you a college 98 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: football fan? Were you a sometimes a fractious relationship I 99 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 1: know between the Royals and UH and Cardinal fans. What 100 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: what teams did you grow up die hard rooting for 101 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 1: the most when you were a kid. Well, Chiefs for sure, 102 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 1: you know, Selexington, Missouri, which is my hometown about an 103 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 1: hour east of Kansas City, right on the Missouri River. 104 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: And so we were in the Kansas City media market. 105 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: So te you know, I mean absolutely in fact that 106 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: this this this whole experience. The last couple of seasons, 107 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: Patrick Mahomes coming to us, and of course the Super 108 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: Bowl was you know, for for me, for a kid 109 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: who grew up the Chiefs fan, which was just truly 110 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: dream come true because I can remember vividly the Montana years. 111 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: That's the beginning of my high school experience, and I 112 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: can remember, I know right where I was when the Chiefs. 113 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: I could still was sitting in a sitting in a 114 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 1: booth at a little local diner and Lexington watching the 115 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: game when when the Montana and the Chiefs lost in 116 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: the a f C Championship, So I remember that vividly. 117 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: So getting back and then winning that and getting onto 118 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: the Super Bowl. Winning that has been like you know, 119 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 1: kind of it's kind of bringing a full circle and 120 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: and maybe working out some karma there. So anyhow, that's 121 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: been awesome. But Chiefs for sure Royals because we're on 122 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: the west side of the state. So I've since then, 123 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,239 Speaker 1: you know, sort of made my piece of the Cardinals. 124 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: I love the Cards. I cheer for him, but I'll 125 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: just be honest. I've said this the Cards fans like, 126 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: if if you know Royals are playing the Cars, I'm 127 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: gonna cheer for the Royals. So I grew up a 128 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: big Royals fan, grew up going to the games, old 129 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: enough that I can remember seeing George Brett play, and 130 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: going to those games was a big childhood. You had 131 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,679 Speaker 1: to be a big back in the day to Jackson, 132 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: Yeah I did. I got to Saint Jackson was there 133 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: when I was a little kid, and uh oh yeah, 134 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: I mean he was just you know that he was 135 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: obviously a superstar and uh an idol of mine. I 136 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: mean growing up you know that the playing uh on 137 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: the other coast as he did for football, as you know, 138 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: too bad he couldn't play in Kansas City, but no, 139 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: he was amazing. So where were you for the Super Bowl? 140 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: Did you watch it at home with friends? Fans? Yeah? 141 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: So how nervous do you get? So I'm a Titans fan, 142 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: so full disclosure. So you ruined my boy's fall, uh 143 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: with and also their dad. But we made an unexpected 144 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 1: run to the a f C Championship game. Obviously. But 145 00:06:57,839 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: I find Patrick Mahomes to be, you know, sort of 146 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: like Steph Curry and that it's almost impossible to dislike him. 147 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: He seems to play with such an effervescent personality and 148 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: obviously he's an incredible talent, But as a long suffering 149 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: I think it's probably fair to say Kansas City Chiefs fan. 150 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: Because you're around my age, so you have seen a 151 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: lot of losses over the years in the playoffs and 152 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: everything else. He has to feel like just an unbelievable 153 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: gift from the sporting gods, right, totally, Oh totally. And 154 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: now I've got two little boys of my own, my 155 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: older boys seven and my younger boy is five, and 156 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: so to be able to watch the games with them 157 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: and to have them they're just old enough this year 158 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: when we watched them last year together in the season 159 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: before this past one, and when they were six and four, 160 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: but to have him be able to watch the games 161 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: and kind of get into it a little bit more 162 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: this year, that there's something I think, you know, as 163 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: a father, there's something special about that, especially if the 164 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: game has meant something, the team has meant something to you, 165 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: or for me really, to be honest, it kind of 166 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: brought back memories. My dad was my coach when I 167 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: was playing pee wee football, little league football up until 168 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: I went to high school. So there was just something 169 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: about sharing that with my own boys that brought that 170 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: memories of of of my childhood with my dad coaching me, 171 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: and that there's just you know, if that's an awesome thing. 172 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: So that took to be honest, that was the best 173 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: part about watching the game. And my kids helped keep 174 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: me calm because they, you know, they understood that we 175 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: were down, and you know, they could tell but you know, 176 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: they're sending five and they were like, oh, we're gonna win, Daddy, 177 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: We're gonna win, you know, And Daddy was like, man, 178 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: I'm sweating it by the end of the in the third. 179 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: But anyhow, it was. It was good and of course 180 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: they get My younger boy can still rattle off the 181 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: score and he'd tell you what the other day he 182 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: said to his mom, Well, at halftime, Mama, score was 183 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: this and that and we were down. And I was like, man, 184 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: that stayed with them. Uh so pretty cool. Now, I 185 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: I what I have found. I've got three boys, twelve, 186 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: nine and five, and what I have found is so 187 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: amazing about it is it takes you back because everybody 188 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: can kind of get jaded as you get older about sports. 189 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: You learned some of the less egg zilarating parts, let's say, 190 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: of of the sporting universe and what a business it is, 191 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: but going back and being able to see it through 192 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: your kid's eyes kind of takes you back in time 193 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 1: and reminds you of what it was like to be seven, eight, 194 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: nine years old yourself when you were a fan. It's 195 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: it's one of the coolest things I think about about 196 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: being a dad, certainly as it relates to sports. Now, 197 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by something else in your background. You were 198 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: you clerked after you graduated from Yale Law School, and 199 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: you ended up on the Supreme Court clerking for John Roberts. 200 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: I believe you met your wife there. But I've always 201 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: been fascinated as a guy who went to Vanderbilt Law school. 202 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 1: I never did any of the clerk experience, but one 203 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: of my classmates was a Supreme Court clerk, and it's 204 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: just such an august, incredible, unique accomplishment. What was that 205 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: like for you to be a clerk on the Supreme 206 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: Court and what was that experience like? Well, I did 207 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: indeed beat my wife there, as you said, so it 208 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: worked out great for me. I'm not sure that her 209 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: family still thinks it was a great year for her, 210 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: but but it was a great year for me. And 211 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: we're coming up on the ten years of Mary's defty 212 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: this month, Um, but now you know click clearing of 213 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: the court. I mean, the thing about getting to work 214 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: at the Supreme Court is that you get to see 215 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 1: so many cases. First of all, because the court gets 216 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: about ten thousand requests a year to hear cases, and 217 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: that's how many requests come in from the lower courts. 218 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: And they only hear this year they only heard fifty some. 219 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: My year they heard about seventy cases. So a fraction, small, 220 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,959 Speaker 1: small fraction of the cases they get requests for do 221 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: they actually hear Grant searches. The is a formal term 222 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: for that. So you just see so many cases and 223 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: you get to learn so much about different parts of 224 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: the law. And you get to see great lawyers too. 225 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: I mean, you know the arguments. I went to every 226 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: argument that we had at the court that year, Um, 227 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: and you know, it's it's just fascinating. You learn so much, 228 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: and I've got tremendous respect for the courts of the Institution. 229 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: I tell you, I'm not very happy with this year. 230 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: That's a different subject, but you know, I've I learned 231 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: a lot and it made a big difference to me. 232 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: That's the kind of law I went on to practice them. 233 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: I became a constitutional lawyer. My my wife as well, 234 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: like my wife's still practices, and uh, that's really my 235 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 1: my experience of the court really a shape chap. So 236 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 1: did you so a couple of things that I think 237 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: are interesting in the background of the court. Did you 238 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: play in the highest court in the land and the 239 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 1: basketball gym that was there? Was there a league? Was 240 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: there any kind of regular basketball game that would take 241 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: place there? I did play up there, and in fact 242 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: the year that I was there, Uh, the Jayhawks from 243 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: neighboring Kansas that won the de Nasial v Civil In 244 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: National Championship Innitcial Basketball Championship, which was you know, a 245 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: little a little hard to take being a being Missouri boy. 246 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: But they came to the reason I mentioned is the 247 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: Chief Justice, who is also a big sports fan. The 248 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: Chief Justice invited them to come to the super in 249 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: Court when they made their DC trip and they got 250 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: invited the White House, the chiefs ass said, well, why 251 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: don't come to the Supreme Court. And then he had 252 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: the truly master stroke idea. He said, let's invite him 253 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 1: to do a scrimmage. You shoot around at the highest 254 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: court in the land, which they did. So it was 255 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 1: kind of awesome, even though it was you know, Kansas, 256 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: it was kind of awesome to see those guys up 257 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: at the highest court in the land, up there shooting 258 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: around and and you know, we got to go out 259 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: there with them, and then we had them for lunch 260 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: all that stuff. But yeah, the Clerks would get together 261 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,199 Speaker 1: and play from time to time. I'll be honest with 262 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: the basketball is is not my sport, but it's you know, 263 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: it's it's it's awesome to be up there and to 264 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: be able to to think about, you know, this is 265 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: a court that and not only have the Justice has 266 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: played on over the years, Michael Jordan has played on 267 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: that court. Clarence Thomas was friends with Jordan I think 268 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: still is and invited him to come and so he 269 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: shot around on that court, and you know, so that's 270 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 1: pretty cool. Another thing about it is, I don't know 271 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: if you've seen a clip that this ceiling in that court, 272 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: because it wasn't designed to be a basketball court. It's 273 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: right above the main courtroom. The feeling is well up there. Yeah, 274 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: you basically can't shoot a three pointer, I mean not 275 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: with any any kind of ark at all. So it's 276 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: a low ceiling, and then the other thing is being 277 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: above the main courtroom. There's these stories from back in 278 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: the eighties when the court would be in session hearing 279 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,359 Speaker 1: oral arguments, and a couple of clerks who were supposed 280 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: to be in their seats in the courtroom listening, decided, 281 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: you know what a good opportunity for us, maybe just 282 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: shoot a few baskets and they go up and do 283 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: and they could hear the basketball bouncing in the courtroom. 284 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: So since been during oral arguments they literally rope off 285 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: the court just in case, you know, somebody should want 286 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: to wander out there. So it's pretty fun. How many 287 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: of the justices are legitimate sports fans? Would you say? 288 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: Because I always think that's interesting. Everybody obviously has serious 289 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: things in their life, and for most people, sports are 290 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: an escape from that serious part of their life. John Roberts, 291 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: it sounds like some atty good sports fan. Were there 292 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: other justices that you heard talking about sports and some 293 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: guys can fake it right or girls you know, like 294 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: you know that they're not really fans. Did that Was 295 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 1: there like a legitimate sports relationship at all that you 296 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: picked up on when you were Clark Gage Justice Thomas 297 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: is a big sports fan in my observation, love sports. Um, 298 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: you know follows sports. And uh, I said, you know, 299 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: friends with athletes. I mean that. So Justice Thomas for sure, 300 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: and you have the Chief Justice is both himself you know, 301 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: played played high school football rather and that was kind 302 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: of a formative experience for him. Uh and uh, you 303 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: know continues he was or used to be at least 304 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: a golfer and continues to do that and follows that 305 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: very very closely. Uh So, now the courts changed pretty 306 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: fair amounts since I've I've been there. I don't know 307 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: a lot of the new justices, but it seems like 308 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: Kavanaugh is a pretty big, pretty big fan. And I 309 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: hear that and he he of course wasn't wasn't there 310 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: when I was there, But yeah, are the ones who 311 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: were there when I would around, I would say, probably, 312 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: uh yeah, Justice Thomas and the Chief Justice where the 313 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: two biggest sportsens that I knew. Maybe others were, but 314 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't hear him talk about it, but 315 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: I heard the Chief and I heard Justice Thomas talk 316 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: about him to regular face. It was not uncommon for 317 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: the Chief Justice to say to us as a group 318 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: of clerks are here. He'd say, hey, did you see 319 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: the game last night? Can you believe you know, can 320 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: you believe they missed that vehicle? Did you see the putt? 321 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: That tigers? Tigers still playing? I guess he's playing again now. 322 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: But he was at his height then, you know, did 323 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: you see that? Probably the tiger? That kind of thing 324 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: that was pretty common. And of course we would always 325 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: complain him like, well we didn't get see any of that, chief, 326 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: because you had stuff working that we were hony day 327 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: when you were a clerk, like what was your typical 328 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: day it was? You know, it's it's clerks make it 329 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: sound worse than it is. It's for one thing, it's 330 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: only a year, you know, and you can a do 331 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: anything for a year. Indeed, such it's such a great 332 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: experience that you want to soak up all of it, 333 00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: you know. I mean, you'd be an idiot to say, oh, 334 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: you know, I gotta have two weeks a vacation, which 335 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: probably we did not yet, but you know that you'd 336 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: be stupid to do that over that experience. But you know, 337 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: there were some long days and then there were some 338 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: more normal days. The justices and again this more than 339 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: ten years ago and now I'm dating myself, but the 340 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: justices are pretty hard workers, um, and you know they would, 341 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: uh we were, certainly and then put you this way 342 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: any time to teach justices and chambers, we were expected 343 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: to be there. I mean, there was no doubt about that. 344 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: Like you know, if he was in and his routine 345 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: was back then, he'd dropped off his young son, um, 346 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: who's now all grown up, and he dropped him off 347 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: in the morning at school and come into the court 348 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: and work all day and he'd work on the way home. 349 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: And we need to be available, so and you know 350 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: we work weekends, um when we needed to, which was 351 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: a good a good person of the time, but it 352 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: was it was such a great experience that you know, 353 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: it's one that that I was for everybody who who 354 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: loves the law and its interested in the law. And 355 00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: like I said, it made a huge difference for me 356 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: starting not like alright, well, i'll skip ahead. You you 357 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: are now a senator from Missouri. We're talking with Josh Holly, 358 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: and uh you obviously you are very accomplished, um in 359 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: what you've done since then, and getting on the Supreme 360 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 1: Court as a clerk is a is a heck of accomplishment. 361 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: For I know many people who are listening who are 362 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: at least familiar with the legal field in any way 363 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: so as going to Stanford and getting into Yale Law School. Um, 364 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: but what we are focused on here and I just 365 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: kind of wanted to get people a background. I was 366 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: fascinated by it myself, is uh. I believe and I 367 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: think you probably agree with me, and you're we're around 368 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: the same age, born in the same year. We kind 369 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: of grew up, you and I did on the tail 370 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 1: end of the Cold War with the United States and Russia. 371 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: And I believe that we are in what should be 372 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: classified in some way as a Cold War with China 373 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: right now, and that China is taking advantage of some 374 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: of the difficulties going on right now around the globe, 375 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: which frankly they caused the coronavirus to continue to tell 376 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 1: more and more of the rights away from people in 377 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: the vicinity of China who have had them, whether that 378 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: be Hong Kong, which is going on right now and 379 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: we're going to get into, or certainly I think they 380 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: would like to to reclaim Taiwan. I think that's certainly 381 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: one of their goals. The South China, see the aggressive 382 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: moves that they're making there to try to control more 383 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: of the area around China. Would you agree with me 384 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: that the United States probably the biggest threat that we 385 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: face right now is China on a variety of different fronts, 386 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: and that it feels a little bit at least like 387 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: to me, very Russia, like in the Cold War from 388 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 1: when I was a kid and what was America was 389 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: going through at the time. I mean, I just don't 390 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: think there's any doubt that China is our biggest national 391 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: security threat, probably our biggest economic threat of the century, 392 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: and it's gonna be like this for the rest of 393 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: our lifetimes. I don't have any doubt. By the way, 394 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: who is going to emerge from this as number one. 395 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 1: It's gonna be us. But we've you know, we've got 396 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 1: some work to do. And this is you know, this 397 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: is life, right, I mean, this is this is part 398 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: of it. You're going to have people who don't like America, 399 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: who want to knock America off its pedestal. China has 400 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: been trying to steal our jobs with some success, h 401 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: too much success, and steal our our technology, steal our property. 402 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: They've been doing all of that for decades now, and 403 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: I think frankly that the d C establishment has been 404 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 1: asleep at the wheel on this for way too long. 405 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: But we've we've got some work here to do to 406 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: stop what China is trying to do, what they're trying 407 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: to take from us, stop them from from inserting themselves. 408 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: They want to be a global not as a global power, Clay. 409 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: They really want to be the global power. And they 410 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: see that differently than we do. You know. They see 411 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: that is they want to control I mean, them being 412 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: in charge is them controlling the world and controlling us, 413 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 1: and we can't let that happen. Okay. So this grew 414 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: the the intersection of sports in China. Some people who 415 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,679 Speaker 1: have not followed this case closely but are listening to 416 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: us now. Back in October, the UH the NBA, which 417 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: has had a very deep relationship with China as they've 418 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: expanded their brand around the world. UH the NBA was 419 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: on sort of a goodwill tour around Asia and the 420 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: Houston Rocket GM Darryl Moray tweeted Free Hong Kong as 421 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 1: a part of the Hong Kong protests, and all hell 422 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 1: basically broke loose in terms of the NBA's relationship with China. 423 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: And before I get into the specifics of that, you 424 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: actually traveled over to China to witness the Hong Kong 425 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: protest for yourself, I understand, back in October of last year. Uh, 426 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: and we've certainly seen this relationship devolved. I mean, in fact, 427 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: all of the protesters and what they were protesting for 428 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 1: has been proven to be a percent true. Maybe even 429 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: stunning to me, maybe to you as well, how quickly 430 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: China has moved to curtail those basic human rights and 431 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: freedoms in Hong Kong. But what did you see on 432 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: your trip in October as these protests were going on. 433 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: You know, I needed to go and see it from myself. 434 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: That's the reason I went. I just we I had 435 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: talked to the protesters, uh from Afar, you know, from 436 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: from here in the States. But I just I just 437 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: decided that, you know what, I've got to steep this. 438 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: So I went to Hong Kong to say and and 439 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: I did. I didn't want to say cooped up in 440 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: an hotel somewhere. We got out on the streets, much 441 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: to the consternation of of I think some of the 442 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: diplomatic corps. But there you go. Um. So we went 443 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 1: out and and we're out on the streets to the 444 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: protesters in several different locations. And you know, I saw 445 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: saw what was going on. It was the real deal. Um. 446 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: And uh, I will just say that, you know, seeing 447 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: up close and personal what the authoritarian regime Invaizing was 448 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: willing to do and we're doing to their own people, 449 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: not allowing them to assemble. You know, we see, for granted, 450 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: a lot of our I sented states in the United States, 451 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: will we allow folks to assemble and protests peacefully? Even 452 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: a lot of times about a permit. I mean, you know, 453 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: technically in most places you're supposed to get a permit, 454 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: but you know here in the US, a lot of 455 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,880 Speaker 1: times like hey, it's you know, fit's peaceful, we'd let 456 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: to do it. There in Hong Kong, and this is 457 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: back in October, you couldn't even get a permit. I mean, 458 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: these protesters were asking, would you please give us a permit, 459 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: which they were entitled two under law. Nope. Then they 460 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: were clubbing them down, they were spraying them down, they 461 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: were arresting teenagers, throwing them into prison, beating them viciously. 462 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: And I saw it I saw all this on on 463 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: the streets, and so it just to me it was 464 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 1: such a vivid example of the way Beijing does business, 465 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: you know, and what they have done to us for 466 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: years in taking our jobs, in stealing our property and 467 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: trying to build their military on the backs of our 468 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: middle class. That's has been their modus operending for decades. Now. 469 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: You could you could see that same spirit out on 470 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: the street to Hong Kong. If they beat their own people, 471 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: I mean the home let's not forget their Chinese. They're 472 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: out there beating their own people, arresting them, spraying then 473 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: may sing them, you know, threatening them, suiting them in 474 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: some instances, um, you know with note the protesters have 475 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: no weapons, that their their thug police had weapons, shooting 476 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: them openly, and it's just crazy stuff. And that just 477 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: shows you, I think what Basing's mentality is. And so 478 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: Darryl Moray, the Houston Rockets GM says free Hong Kong, 479 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 1: and the NBA ultimately has their exhibition games. There's all 480 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: this controversy. Uh. To me, the NBA players, the coaches, 481 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: Adam Silver, they bent the knee, uh, and then to 482 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: use the lebron James phrase that that he likes to 483 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: claim that they will never do. Lebron shut up and 484 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: dribbled and uh and and bowed down to his Chinese overlords. 485 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,719 Speaker 1: We saw the same thing happened with Steve Kerr and 486 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: Greg Popovich, two coaches who are quick to rip everything 487 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: Donald Trump says. But when Steve Kerr was specifically asked 488 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: about that situation, he said, you know, what do you say? 489 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: He was asked, do you support protests in Hong Kong? 490 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: He said, well, that's a complex situation. He still hasn't 491 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: said anything, And now the protest have clearly been proven 492 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 1: to be uh. These guys knew what was going on 493 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 1: because China has swept in. They passed new rules. You 494 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,439 Speaker 1: can go to jail for years if you protest. They 495 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: are literally pulling books out of libraries in Hong Kong 496 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: that have to do with the UH, with with democracy there. 497 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: And so this is this is for Americans who really 498 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: haven't been paying a lot of attention to this. This 499 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: is Orwellian what China is doing. They are taking over 500 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:55,199 Speaker 1: in Hong Kong, and it is a horrible sign of 501 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: what might be to come. And frankly, I think the 502 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: United States has been asleep at the wee and has 503 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: not been aggressive enough in condemning what's going on in 504 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: Hong Kong. Yeah, you're I mean, you're absolutely right about 505 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: what's going on there. I mean, it's a democracy is 506 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: over now in oncom I mean that's just the stad 507 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: the sad but stark truth. The Beijing has passed. They 508 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: call it a law. By the way, Clay, I always 509 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: always the fall when I say that, because you know, 510 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: there's no legislature in Beijing, they don't elect anybody. It's 511 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: all fake. And so Beijing, you said, we're passing a 512 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: national security law. Well it's not a law, an edict 513 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: handed down on high from the Chinese Communist Party, a 514 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 1: bunch of unelected thugs. But they've they've put it into 515 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: operation in Hong Kong and it's been now no more, 516 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: no more protests, no more assembly, no more free speech, 517 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: no more right to worship, none of that stuff, yanking 518 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: all of it. And you've seen it already. What they've 519 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: done is that they put that new law into effect, 520 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: that edict. They swept up protesters. You can't now, some 521 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: protesters out in Hong Kong have have tried to hold 522 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: up just blank sign clare they don't say anything. There's 523 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: no message on him that be that could be uh 524 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 1: in any way destabilizing, whatever that might mean. And these 525 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: protesters are getting arrested for holding up blank signs. I mean, 526 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: it's just there's no rule of law that this is just. 527 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 1: It is pure authoritarianism now. And that is again it 528 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 1: shows you what Beijing hopes frankly for the world, but 529 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: certainly for any area that is under their control. And 530 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 1: they want to just raise Hong Kong to the ground 531 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: essentially in terms of its freedoms, and then they want 532 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 1: to turn their side. You mentioned Taiwan earlier. They want 533 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: to do that to Taiwan. And the reason we care 534 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 1: is number one. Of course, we care about the fate 535 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: of free people anywhere. I mean, we are We're a 536 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,479 Speaker 1: free nation. I still believe in the free world. I mean, 537 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,160 Speaker 1: I believe in that thing called the free world. We're 538 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 1: a free people in America. And so you know, we 539 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: we our hearts are with free people everywhere. Number one. 540 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: But number two, we care about our own security. And 541 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: the truth is a China that is so emboldened that 542 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: they will break all of their treaty commitments because they 543 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: have them with Hong Kong, they'll break in order to 544 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: put that city on the ground, and then we'll try 545 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: to take over Taiwan, and then we'll try to extend 546 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: their dominance all over the world. That is dangerous. To 547 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: put it mildly, to the United States of America. They're 548 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: nothing more threatening. Our jobs are our security than this 549 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: kind of imperialism in China. And that's what we're up against. 550 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: And one of the things that you can talk about 551 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: for the purposes of sports is this idea that sports 552 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,360 Speaker 1: can help to raise awareness and consciousness of what might 553 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: be going on, and that rather than bow down to 554 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: the Chinese overlords, as the NBA has done and basically 555 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: put Darryl Moray and witness protection ever since he said 556 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: free Hong Kong uh. And so the NBA has made 557 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: the decision, Okay, we're gonna make statements on our jerseys. 558 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: And this is where your connection to the n b 559 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: A and ESPN and Disney came in. We're recording this 560 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: on Saturday, yes to day. On a Friday, you released 561 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,439 Speaker 1: a letter which asked a commissioner, Adam Silver, why the 562 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,400 Speaker 1: NBA was allowing certain statements to be made on a jersey, 563 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: but for instance, they wouldn't allow anybody to put free 564 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: Hong Kong on their jerseys or support the Chinese people 565 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: who are consuming the NBA content. Uh, And we'll see 566 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: these games in theory, the NBA is doing what I 567 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: think you would agree with me is sort of a 568 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: fake wokennus. Right. They will rip American institutions, and they 569 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: will rip American values, which will then be used as 570 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: Chinese propaganda. Right, because all these Chinese communists are gonna 571 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 1: be showing the NBA in their country and they're gonna say, see, look, 572 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: everything is not great in America. Look at all the 573 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: things in ways that they're being mistreated. And this could 574 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: be if the NBA wants to get political with their jerseys, 575 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: why are they being hypocritical bowing down to China and 576 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: their communist leadership while rip being the United States? And 577 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: you raised this issue with Adam Silver and all hell 578 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: broke loose again there as well. But what was the 579 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: intent of your letter to the n B. A The 580 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: NBA makes a tremendous amount of money in China. I 581 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: mean just a tremendous amount of money. And then this 582 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: is where this is where I think the NBA has 583 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: some obligations, right, I mean even before they started this 584 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: stuff about putting social justice caused statements on the back 585 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: of the uniforms just recently, and their relationship with China 586 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: is now pretty long standing. And when you're making that 587 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: much money in that kind of a place, doing deals 588 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: with that sort of a government, which is what the 589 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: NBA corporate is doing, then I think when you've got 590 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: a situation like we've had in Hong Kong, or like 591 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: you've got with the Weakers who are a religious minority 592 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: who are literally in concentracing camps in China, in constant 593 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: tracing camps, now I think you've got some responsibility to 594 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: say something about that, at least say that, oh my gosh, 595 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: we don't agree with with that. But you, I mean, 596 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: the NBA's what's their latest contract just that this past 597 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: year worth over one point five billion dollars. I mean, 598 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: it's just unbelievable the amount of money. You mentioned. The 599 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: you know, sort of the woke stance at the NBA's take, 600 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: and it's corporate's classic corporate wokenus. You know, it's nothing 601 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: that would interfere with profits for having's sake. I mean, 602 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: you know profits, Oh my gosh, we're gonna get those, 603 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: and nothing that would interfere with our our multinational plan 604 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: to scoop up money and all of these different markets 605 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: for so many American corporations. Does that means selling out 606 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: the American worker, sending jobs overseas? Oh, by golly, we'll 607 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: do that in the heartbeat. But don't you know. But 608 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: but we're woke. You know, don't get mad at us 609 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: because we're woke. It's really a huge distraction to try 610 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: and move attention away from what they're really doing, what 611 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: these huge corporations are really doing. And the NBA is 612 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: right there in terms of the money they are making 613 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: in China and the kind of deal that they have 614 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: made with the Chinese government, and uh, you know, I 615 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: think it is not too much to ask them, which 616 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: is my point to still or in my letter. First 617 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: of all, what is the deal with China? Why aren't 618 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: you saying anything as you make all this money as 619 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: an organization? And at the very least, if you're going 620 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: to put statements on the back of jerseys, why wouldn't 621 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: you allow a player to wear a free Hong Kong 622 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: statement on the back? I mean, for that matter, why 623 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: not to support our troops, you know, I mean, what's 624 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 1: wrong with that too. But just on the China thing, 625 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: why not free Hong Kong? Why not free to weaker's 626 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: that's that that the religious minority that's in concentration camps. 627 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: Because you're right, the people of China would see that. 628 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: That would send a message. Uh, it would, I think, frankly, 629 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: show that the NBA is willing to stand up a 630 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: little bit. But you know, oh no, we can't. We 631 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: can't have any of that. You saw the reaction. Also, 632 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: Adam Silver said that they had mutual respect the NBA 633 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: did for China. You just mentioned the concentration camps, the 634 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: cracking down on all Hong Kong democracy, the fact that 635 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: over a billion Chinese people don't have basic human rights. 636 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: It should be insulting to all Americans that Adam Silver 637 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: said in any way that the NBA has mutual respect 638 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: for what China stands for, shouldn't it. Yeah, that's just 639 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: about money. I mean, it's sure, it's mutual respect for 640 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: making money for NBA corporate. I mean, that's that's what 641 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: it's about again, as it is for so many of 642 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: these multinational corporations. I can tell you that the Chinese 643 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: government doesn't have any respect for anybody in America. And 644 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: you look at the kind of respect they showed us 645 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: when Daryl Morey, to your point, Clay, when he had 646 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: the audacity just to retweet, as I recall, more didn't 647 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: actually himself say anything. He just retweeted a one little 648 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: line about Hong Kong. And look how the Beijing government 649 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: came down on this American citizen by demanding he'd be fired, 650 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: by threatening to pull all the Rockets games from television, 651 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: and then treatening to pull all of the NBA games 652 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: from all of the Chinese platforms. I mean, that's not respect, 653 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: That is contempt. That is an attempt to control and 654 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: to to to subjugate us, just like they want to 655 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: subjugate their own people. And for the NBA to to 656 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: not only turn a blind eye, but actually to cooperate, 657 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: I mean, to go along with the cow towering by saying, 658 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: oh more in the spoke. You know he wasn't speaking 659 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: for the league. Uh. And then Silver all of Silver's 660 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: other statements, you know that was a Silver said that 661 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: this was a bump in the road. They're that little 662 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: incident with Moray in Hong Kong, and that you know, 663 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: they're working on repairing the NBA's relationship with China, repairing it, 664 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: and what they should be doing is saying the Beijing, listen, 665 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: We're proud to be Americans. And if you try to 666 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: tell us what to think or what to say or 667 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: what to do, We're gonna tell you where a step off. 668 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: We're talking to Missouri Senator Josh Holley. This is the 669 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: Winds and Losses podcast. Clay Travis here. All right, So 670 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: you write that letter, which by the way, I thought 671 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: was fantastically well done. I retweeted it when I saw 672 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: it go out, and you also and this is pretty commonplace. 673 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: It's a big story the way that the NBA's relationship 674 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 1: with China is going. And so when you write a 675 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: letter like this, it's not uncommon that media members would 676 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 1: get added to a letter like this via email. So 677 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: you can make them aware because they cover the league, 678 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: because they are that they should be aware of the 679 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: relationship between the NBA and politicians, given that the NBA 680 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: is going to be a social justice warrior organization at 681 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: least for this restart of the season in Orlando and 682 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 1: all the changes with the jersey and the statements on 683 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: the court and everything else. You send it out to 684 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 1: a variety of NBA media. And how soon after that 685 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: email goes out does Adrian Wojnarowski. And I'll say it. 686 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: You may not want to curse, but he uh, he 687 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 1: writes back, uh, fuck you. That's the entire message from 688 00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: his ESPN corporate email account back to your office for 689 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: having the gall to ask the n b A about 690 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: its response to to to China. How quickly does that happen? 691 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,399 Speaker 1: And who on your staff was like, Oh my god, 692 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: is this real? I mean it kind of take me 693 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: into how that process played out. You know. We we 694 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,800 Speaker 1: got that back from him. I mean, let me just look. 695 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: I can look right here. Within um oh to two minutes, Clay, 696 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: we sent it out at eight fifty five. I've got 697 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: this in front of me. We sent out the press 698 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,839 Speaker 1: release about our letter to press at eight fifty five, 699 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 1: and at eight fifty seven, wows rights back from his 700 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: iPhone because its tag sent from my iPhone, so he 701 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,479 Speaker 1: gets that directly to him. Two minutes later, he writes back, 702 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: fuck you to a United States Senator in Missouri from 703 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: his ESPN corporate email account, and did you think it 704 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 1: would be in prank, like when one of your staff 705 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: members was like, hey, wait a minute, uh, you know, 706 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: can you believe what Adrian Morgenarowski just wrote back, Well, 707 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 1: I have to say I did. I sort of looked 708 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: at it and listen, we you know, we get responses 709 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: non members of the breast, but we you know, we 710 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: people troll us all the time, and you know that's 711 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: welcome to melcome to the welcome to the Internet. Yeah, 712 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's a lot of ridiculousness out there. 713 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: So yeah, so but from a media member, have you 714 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: ever seen anything like that? To have that happen now 715 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: quickly and have that response now, I've never seen that 716 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: response from a from a media member before. And it 717 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: took you know, I was like, well this is My 718 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 1: first thought was what's the deal here? But you know, 719 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 1: now is the ESPN dot com? And then my my 720 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: other thought was is that, well he's just saying what 721 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: ESPN thanks. That's right. I'm frankly not surprised. My my 722 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 1: expectation is, to be perfectly honest with you, is that 723 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 1: ESPN would completely ignore because they don't want to cover 724 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: at all. Yeah. Absolutely, that's what they did back in October. 725 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,279 Speaker 1: I mean they grudgingly with the Hong Kong blow up 726 00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,919 Speaker 1: in the NBA back in October. They grudgingly is member 727 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: serves finally got around the covering a kind of but 728 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: you know, it's like, let's let's let's move on as 729 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: quick as possible because Clay, the ESPN, Disney the parent company, 730 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: you know, they they benefit to financially from the the 731 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: NBA's relationship with China. I mean, let's, you know, let's 732 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,319 Speaker 1: be honest here. Uh so, and I'm sure in terms 733 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: of you know, their their own staff members views, employees views. 734 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 1: Uh you know, it's not woke center for nothing. So 735 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: I was surprised by that response, but I thought, you know, 736 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:35,399 Speaker 1: this is this is becoming all two typical of what 737 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: the media. They don't They won't report the news, they 738 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: won't actually ask the tough questions. I mean, why why 739 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: is the Rick question here is? Why is an ESPN 740 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: asking these questions of the n B A. I mean, 741 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: why aren't they going and saying, hey, hold on just 742 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: a second, are you not gonna say anything about what's 743 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: going on in this country where you make literally billions 744 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: of dollars? Do nothing to take pressing that that's the 745 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 1: real issue. Yeah, and let's go in here for a 746 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: second to uh to the law, because both of us 747 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,439 Speaker 1: are lawyers. You know this better than I do, because 748 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 1: you are a freaking Supreme Court clerk. But there's a 749 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:14,360 Speaker 1: difference between providing complete First Amendment freedoms to your players 750 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: to make whatever political statement they want to make on 751 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: their jerseys and discriminating on content, right, because what the 752 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: NBA is basically doing is a form of propaganda. They 753 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 1: are saying, hey, we're okay with you making political statements 754 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 1: so long as we agree with those political statements. Right. So, 755 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: in other words, it's not a content neutral policy when 756 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: it comes to their jersey. They are selecting the the 757 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: the the opinions that the players are allowed to advertise 758 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: on their jersey. And it's a very ripe moment of 759 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,439 Speaker 1: hypocrisy here that you can point and say, oh, you're 760 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: fine ripping the United States and other institutions and taking 761 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,359 Speaker 1: particular sides here where there's zero risk because of all 762 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,319 Speaker 1: the freedoms we have, but you won't stand up for 763 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,920 Speaker 1: the basic human rights of others around the world that 764 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: you are taking billions of dollars for. This is the 765 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: very essence of what the job of sports media should 766 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 1: be right to speak truth to power. Instead, you raise 767 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 1: all these issues and ESPN's top NBA reporter, his first 768 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,800 Speaker 1: response is to say, not, oh, these are interesting issues 769 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 1: that should be explored. It's to say fuck you to 770 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,399 Speaker 1: a sitting United States senator. You know it's you're you're 771 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,439 Speaker 1: right about all of that claim you're and you're write 772 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,359 Speaker 1: about it. You it's such an important point that this 773 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 1: is corporate approved speech on the back of these jerseys. 774 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,879 Speaker 1: My understanding is the NBIA can correct me if I'm wrong, 775 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,440 Speaker 1: But my understanding is that it's not only the players 776 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:51,880 Speaker 1: can just go out and say, oh, this is what 777 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 1: I want to We're gonna do the cause statements. Here's 778 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 1: what I want to mind. Uh, the NBA has to 779 00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,839 Speaker 1: approve it so that they selected, you know, in full right, 780 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:05,279 Speaker 1: that these that these statements here the approved statements. And yeah, 781 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,800 Speaker 1: there's nothing in there about Hong Kong, about China, about 782 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,439 Speaker 1: the concentration camps, none of that. Nor by the way, 783 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,759 Speaker 1: is there anything in there like support our troops or 784 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: back the blue or anything, or God Bless America or 785 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: God Bless America. You know, we couldn't have that for 786 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:26,000 Speaker 1: having's sake. So this this is, this is the NBA 787 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 1: corporate saying that here's the kind of speech that you 788 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,360 Speaker 1: can have and that yeah, it just so happens to 789 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,480 Speaker 1: be speech that is great for their bottom line. Imagine that. 790 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 1: So also, again I want to circle back around to 791 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,799 Speaker 1: what I think is the most stunning part about this 792 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 1: is this is ESPN really by and large as a 793 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 1: corporation saying what they believe. Because woas got tremendous uh 794 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 1: you know, you know, applause inside of the inside of 795 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 1: the ESPN family for saying this, right, and you said 796 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,319 Speaker 1: you tweeted out like this is distracting in some ways. 797 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:02,799 Speaker 1: I mean, the reality is it gets a lot more 798 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,719 Speaker 1: attention and it forces ESPN to acknowledge it at least 799 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 1: in some way. But Woaj has the right to his opinion. 800 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,600 Speaker 1: He can say f you to a senator if he 801 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,440 Speaker 1: wants to. There's no I think he believes that, and 802 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 1: I think he means it. And I don't particularly begrudge 803 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,800 Speaker 1: anybody from their own ability to have their own political opinions. 804 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,880 Speaker 1: But when you represent an ESPN organization that's supposed to 805 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 1: be covering the the n B A to me, this 806 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 1: is just a lustrative of ESPN's contempt for a large 807 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,680 Speaker 1: percentage of their audience that they would even have somebody 808 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:36,840 Speaker 1: saying this. And by the way, do you think that 809 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,759 Speaker 1: Woach keeps his job if he responds this way to 810 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,239 Speaker 1: a o C. If Barack Obama's office sends out a 811 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: press release and he's immediate responses fuck you to Barack 812 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,319 Speaker 1: Obama or tow AOC, is there any way that he 813 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 1: keeps his job at ESPN. In other words, you're a 814 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,239 Speaker 1: Republican senator, I think he I think he can get 815 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: away with saying that because there's so much support and 816 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 1: contempt for Republicans inside of ESPN. But if he had 817 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,080 Speaker 1: done that to a Democratic star, I think there's a 818 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:10,320 Speaker 1: good chance he gets fired. Yeah, it's probably as probably 819 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,759 Speaker 1: a different standard for sure, but you know, I play. 820 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:15,799 Speaker 1: I think the big thing here is that it just 821 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 1: it just shows you that ESPN is not willing to 822 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:25,440 Speaker 1: do their job of actually a reporting and be asking 823 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,759 Speaker 1: tough questions. And to me that that was a significance 824 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:29,239 Speaker 1: of his email. I mean, listen, I want to be 825 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,799 Speaker 1: clear about that. I never asked for an apology from 826 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 1: I don't want one, and I don't want to cancel either. 827 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 1: This isn't about I don't. I don't. I'm not asked 828 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,880 Speaker 1: him to be fired. I don't want it to be 829 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: cancel culture right against it? Yeah, against it. So some 830 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,080 Speaker 1: people sit in me so like, are you trying to 831 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,319 Speaker 1: cancel him? I'm not trying to cancel him. I don't 832 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,399 Speaker 1: even want an apology from him, you know. I mean 833 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 1: when Whitlock asked me, hey, do you want Loves to apologize? 834 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 1: I said no, I don't want to apologize. I mean 835 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,040 Speaker 1: the ESPN, you know, made him do this thing where 836 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 1: they he went out and apologize you whatever. My point 837 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,080 Speaker 1: is is that that is a distraction. That whole thing 838 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 1: is a distraction from the bottom line, which is that 839 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:13,360 Speaker 1: ESPN attitude that's reflected by their star reporter. Their attitude. 840 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,759 Speaker 1: Isn't that when we want to ask tough questions, will 841 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,279 Speaker 1: it dep you? We want to say something, well, why 842 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,480 Speaker 1: isn't the NBA doing that's if you how dare you 843 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 1: even post question? And that's the attitude, I mean, how 844 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: dare you even ask? And my my view is is, 845 00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,439 Speaker 1: wait a minute, why aren't you asking? I mean, you're 846 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 1: the reporter. Why aren't you out there asking why is 847 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:35,440 Speaker 1: it ESPN as a news organization for sports allegedly, why 848 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,279 Speaker 1: aren't they pressing these questions? And it just goes back 849 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,520 Speaker 1: to they're they're bought in pent appear to be to 850 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,880 Speaker 1: the agenda, the corporate woke agenda of the n b 851 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,400 Speaker 1: A and uh, they're brought in to to what's going 852 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,239 Speaker 1: on in China. And this is why, by the way, 853 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 1: Clay I said yesterday, listen, rather than you know, ESPN 854 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:57,520 Speaker 1: is is calling calling me. The Disney people are calling me. 855 00:43:57,920 --> 00:43:59,480 Speaker 1: They're saying, you know, how can we talk to you? 856 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,239 Speaker 1: And and I said, listen, let's just let's just get 857 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: to the bottom mine here. I'm inviting the ESPN CEO 858 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,479 Speaker 1: to my office. So I said, let's just let's let's talk. 859 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 1: Let's Jimmy, Peter and I. Let's just sit down and talk, 860 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 1: and let's talk about the NBA and China and ESPN 861 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,560 Speaker 1: and what you guys are doing and you're reporting. Let's 862 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:23,600 Speaker 1: have an open dialogue about it. So that's what I've done. 863 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,120 Speaker 1: By the way, for the record, I have invited him 864 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,480 Speaker 1: to come to Washington to sit down and talk. I 865 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,000 Speaker 1: want to talk to a bunch of lobbyists. I want 866 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:32,360 Speaker 1: to talk to him. I want to talk to the 867 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,480 Speaker 1: ESPN CEO, and I don't want to talk about WOES. 868 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,920 Speaker 1: I want to talk about China and the n b 869 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:41,439 Speaker 1: A and ESPN coverage and their responsibilities. And I hope 870 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,240 Speaker 1: they'll say, yes, what what have you heard of anything 871 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,520 Speaker 1: from the NBA, Disney and ESPN so far? Is it 872 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,880 Speaker 1: so far just been corporate pr stooges trying to spend 873 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,160 Speaker 1: you or what sort of response. It's obviously only been 874 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,040 Speaker 1: a day, But what sort of response have you gotten 875 00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 1: so far? Yeah, it's it's been just you know, WOES 876 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,360 Speaker 1: was a he was out of line. I think they 877 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 1: put out a statement the esp and put out the 878 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,120 Speaker 1: state yesterday afternoon sort of you know how he this was, 879 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,120 Speaker 1: he was he was a very bad boy and shouldn't 880 00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,600 Speaker 1: have talked that way, and we'll take care of it, 881 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,080 Speaker 1: he said. I think you know that that apologies are 882 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 1: are cheap and they don't do anything. You know, Let's 883 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,200 Speaker 1: let's let's get to the action, you know, let's let's 884 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 1: get to the actually doing something about the real issue. 885 00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,800 Speaker 1: And that's why I say, I haven't you know, I 886 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,520 Speaker 1: haven't heard anything substantive from anybody, so I don't want 887 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,520 Speaker 1: them trotting out their employees for apologies. I want to 888 00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:37,280 Speaker 1: see them actually standing up and asking the tough questions. 889 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,120 Speaker 1: And I'd like some answers from the NBA. Let's not 890 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,640 Speaker 1: let them off the hook, you know. I mean ESPN 891 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 1: here has inserted themselves into the story, but to expose 892 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,520 Speaker 1: themselves really, But you know, the n B A, I 893 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,760 Speaker 1: expect a response from Silver. I'm awaiting a response for Silver. 894 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,640 Speaker 1: I heard zero from him or from the league. And 895 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,360 Speaker 1: I'd like some answers to my questions. And when I 896 00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,879 Speaker 1: get those answers, I'm certainly gonna let people know. If 897 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,879 Speaker 1: don't get answers, I'm gonna let them know that. So 898 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,640 Speaker 1: I expect to hear from the NBA. And UH. I 899 00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:09,960 Speaker 1: also am looking forward to sitting down with the ESPN CEO, 900 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,200 Speaker 1: and I hope that takes place in we're talking to 901 00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,399 Speaker 1: Missouri Senator Josh Holly. I want to finish up here. 902 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,120 Speaker 1: You're a sports fan. I'm a sports fan. Almost everybody 903 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,120 Speaker 1: listening to us right now as a sports fan. Uh. 904 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:24,759 Speaker 1: The decision by sports leagues to decide to embrace politics, 905 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,879 Speaker 1: and let's be honest one side of politics, UH, we're 906 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:32,760 Speaker 1: not talking about, like you said, very very sort of unify, 907 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,120 Speaker 1: unifying things like it's one thing if you want to 908 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,960 Speaker 1: combat cancer, or if you want to say, hey, we're 909 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:42,600 Speaker 1: trying to raise money for the troops, things that nine percent, 910 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,640 Speaker 1: probably even larger than that of Americans would agree on. 911 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:50,040 Speaker 1: Now we're talking about taking sides in social issues and 912 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,560 Speaker 1: not just taking sides, having corporate speak pick sides. Why 913 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,600 Speaker 1: is that bad for sports fans? Well, I mean it 914 00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,280 Speaker 1: just is something becomes something else that divides us sports 915 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:03,560 Speaker 1: then instead of something that unites us, it becomes another 916 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,920 Speaker 1: way that we're divided as Americans. And I you know, 917 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:11,000 Speaker 1: we've seen this, this attitude from the corporate, the c 918 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:16,040 Speaker 1: suite class, the corporate class here now for really the 919 00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,399 Speaker 1: number of years, and it's getting worse and worse, where 920 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:22,360 Speaker 1: they increasingly look down on so much of America, the 921 00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,720 Speaker 1: same people whose jobs that they're perfectly willing to ship 922 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,680 Speaker 1: out overseas and and say, you know, good luck to you, 923 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:30,960 Speaker 1: but we're going to make a quick buck by moving 924 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,279 Speaker 1: to China, moving to you know, pick your country. And 925 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,080 Speaker 1: it's that kind of attitude that's infected the c suite, 926 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,920 Speaker 1: and I think you're seeing that now infect the sports 927 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,920 Speaker 1: corporate world as well. And it's just it's a contempt 928 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 1: for a lot of their fans and for a lot 929 00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,160 Speaker 1: of this country. And it just turned sports into another 930 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,600 Speaker 1: partisan battleground and into another way where some of America 931 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:55,560 Speaker 1: looks down on the rest of America. And you know, 932 00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,040 Speaker 1: for for me, for you, I mean growing up loving sports, 933 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,240 Speaker 1: playing sports. That's something that historically brought this country together. 934 00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,280 Speaker 1: It's where we've celebrated the things that we love together 935 00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:10,480 Speaker 1: and that united Americans. That's part of the promise of sports. 936 00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,440 Speaker 1: And uh, I hate to see that promise broken and betrayed. 937 00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,319 Speaker 1: Last question, I appreciate all the time. I know how 938 00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,480 Speaker 1: busy you are, Missouri Senator Josh Holly. You can go 939 00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,640 Speaker 1: follow him on Twitter. Uh. He's been doing fantastic work 940 00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:26,040 Speaker 1: here holding what I would say, the sports leagues accountable 941 00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:29,840 Speaker 1: for many of their hypocrisies. Broad question here, some people say, okay, 942 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,319 Speaker 1: why does this matter? Um, in terms of using the 943 00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,000 Speaker 1: NBA as a prism and Disney and ESPN as a 944 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,880 Speaker 1: prism through which to view Chinese American relations, Here's what 945 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:42,480 Speaker 1: I would say, and then I want you to try 946 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,440 Speaker 1: to sum it up as well. What I would say 947 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:49,160 Speaker 1: people out there listening. Is there's a difference between someone saying, hey, 948 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:53,560 Speaker 1: we're we want our laws to apply in our region. Right. 949 00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:57,399 Speaker 1: So it's one thing for for China to say, hey, 950 00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:00,680 Speaker 1: you need to change that movie Hollywood in order to 951 00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:05,000 Speaker 1: have this movie air in China, and for American companies 952 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,640 Speaker 1: to make changes. It's another thing entirely for China to 953 00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,200 Speaker 1: do what I believe they are doing now, which is 954 00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:15,720 Speaker 1: saying we expect for Chinese rule of law to govern 955 00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,560 Speaker 1: other places as well as well, which is what they 956 00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:22,480 Speaker 1: said to the NBA fired Darryl Moray. The First Amendment 957 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:26,399 Speaker 1: doesn't apply when you're dealing with China because there are 958 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,640 Speaker 1: no First Amendment rights here. And what I am seeing 959 00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,560 Speaker 1: and I think Hong Kong is a metaphor Taiwan could be, 960 00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:33,960 Speaker 1: the South China Sea could be as well. It is 961 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,800 Speaker 1: a metaphor of China's attempts to take over the world 962 00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,000 Speaker 1: of global thought. With what they are doing to the 963 00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:43,279 Speaker 1: m b A, they are trying to do to the 964 00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:46,920 Speaker 1: rest of the globe. And so it's important for Americans 965 00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,480 Speaker 1: to understand that their own sports are trying to be 966 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:55,120 Speaker 1: co opted by a Chinese communist authoritarian government that is 967 00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:58,000 Speaker 1: my philosophy on why this matters in such a big way. 968 00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:00,760 Speaker 1: Would you agree, how would you expound up on that idea? 969 00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,959 Speaker 1: I think you're right. I mean, it's it's about imperialism. 970 00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,120 Speaker 1: It's about Chinese imperialism, the Communist Party, and the Chinese 971 00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,600 Speaker 1: Communist Party isn't forget people of China have no say 972 00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,160 Speaker 1: in any of this, you know, and they are held 973 00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:18,239 Speaker 1: under the thumb of the small group of thugs. But 974 00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:23,160 Speaker 1: it's about them trying to impose their authoritarian ideology on 975 00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,200 Speaker 1: all the rest of us. And you're really you're right, Clay. 976 00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,200 Speaker 1: They're not content just to do that within the bounds 977 00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:31,680 Speaker 1: of China. They are trying to reach into our own country, 978 00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:35,640 Speaker 1: to our athletes, to our markets. Uh, They're they're trying 979 00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,280 Speaker 1: to to to reach into the the average every day America. 980 00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,440 Speaker 1: I mean, this is the same government. Let's not forget 981 00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:44,120 Speaker 1: Chinese government that also hacked all of our information in 982 00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,239 Speaker 1: the in the Equifax brief from a couple of briefs 983 00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,440 Speaker 1: from a couple of years ago. All these folks who 984 00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,880 Speaker 1: had their personal information stolen, who was behind that? China was? 985 00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:57,839 Speaker 1: China is actively trying to spy on everyday normal Americans 986 00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,439 Speaker 1: all over the country every second of the day, every 987 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,160 Speaker 1: day of the week, and they're trying to impose their 988 00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,279 Speaker 1: values on us. And this is why I come back to, 989 00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,600 Speaker 1: you know, for American companies, what's wrong with being proud 990 00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,560 Speaker 1: of being American? Number one? I mean, what, what's okay? 991 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:15,440 Speaker 1: So NBA, I get it, you do business all over 992 00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:18,719 Speaker 1: the world, you're a global brand. Fine, but what what's 993 00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,080 Speaker 1: wrong with being proud of being an American and saying, listen, 994 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,080 Speaker 1: we're at least going to take a stand for the 995 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:26,120 Speaker 1: things that all Americans agree on, and all Americans agree 996 00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:29,480 Speaker 1: on the right to freedom of speech, and we're going 997 00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:31,839 Speaker 1: to take a stand for that, which, by the way, 998 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,600 Speaker 1: you can't put on a jersey. Freedom of speech not 999 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,400 Speaker 1: permitted to be on an NBA jersey. First Amendment not 1000 00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,239 Speaker 1: permitted to be on an NBA jersey. And when the 1001 00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,319 Speaker 1: Chinese government comes then to us as Americans, and comes 1002 00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:49,160 Speaker 1: to this country and says, no, you can't talk about this, 1003 00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:52,080 Speaker 1: that and the other. You can't talk about your American 1004 00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:56,680 Speaker 1: principles in your own country without threat of censorship from China, 1005 00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,520 Speaker 1: we have a problem. And that's why I just think 1006 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:01,400 Speaker 1: it's not doesn't take a lot of courage here, by 1007 00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,279 Speaker 1: the way, for these corporations and for NBA Corporate to 1008 00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,320 Speaker 1: actually say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, We're drawing the line 1009 00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,279 Speaker 1: right there. We're not going to let you tell us 1010 00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,120 Speaker 1: what do because Clay's thing is it's only gonna get worse. 1011 00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:14,640 Speaker 1: You know, if NBA Corporate thinks that vowing the need 1012 00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:17,399 Speaker 1: of China is on these issues is going to stand 1013 00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:18,920 Speaker 1: them in good stead. If they think, you know, the 1014 00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,000 Speaker 1: use silver space, that we have mutual respect, they are 1015 00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:25,200 Speaker 1: dead wrong. China is going to continue to tighten the screws. 1016 00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:30,200 Speaker 1: They're going to continue to hold hostage corporations who won't 1017 00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,640 Speaker 1: do what they want them to do. And I just 1018 00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:35,360 Speaker 1: think that, you know, the American people deserve to actually 1019 00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:39,560 Speaker 1: have uh, they're these these corporations take a stand and say, 1020 00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:41,520 Speaker 1: you know, we're not We're not afraid to be American 1021 00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:45,280 Speaker 1: and we're not We're not afraid to stand up for America. Amen, 1022 00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:48,759 Speaker 1: keep fighting the good fight, Senator. Go follow Senator Josh 1023 00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,080 Speaker 1: Holly on Twitter. This podcast. If you enjoy its, share 1024 00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,400 Speaker 1: with your friends. We need to get you on again 1025 00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,319 Speaker 1: sometime soon because I want to dive into a lot 1026 00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:58,040 Speaker 1: of these issues that I agree with you on about 1027 00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:01,040 Speaker 1: the tech companies and the way that China and other 1028 00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:06,600 Speaker 1: foreign interests are manipulating American opinion. Uh, I think frankly illegally, 1029 00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:10,880 Speaker 1: but also surreptitiously through our social media platforms, which I 1030 00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:14,440 Speaker 1: know you've been a big investigator and proponent of spending 1031 00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:16,279 Speaker 1: more time on that as well. Thank you for all 1032 00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:18,200 Speaker 1: the time. Thank you for the good work, Senator, and 1033 00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:22,120 Speaker 1: please keep us updated on what the NBA, what ESPN, 1034 00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:27,000 Speaker 1: and what uh what certainly Disney says about your request 1035 00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,920 Speaker 1: for information. You bet, Clay, thanks for having me. That 1036 00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:33,920 Speaker 1: is Missouri Senator Josh Holly. I'm Clay Travis has been 1037 00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,120 Speaker 1: the Wins and Losses podcast. Thanks for listening. Go listen 1038 00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,919 Speaker 1: and subscribe. You're gonna love these conversations and always listen 1039 00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:43,279 Speaker 1: to out Kick the coverage on Fox Sports Radio and 1040 00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:55,120 Speaker 1: read out kick dot com.