1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: Thing from my Heart Radio. We're more than a year 3 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: into this pandemic. People are getting vaccinated now and life 4 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: is starting to return slowly to normal. Still, many of 5 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: us are coming to terms with the ways COVID nineteen 6 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: changed our lives. My guests today have had different experiences 7 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: during the pandemic, both in their personal lives and especially 8 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: in their work. Jane Baldwin Sasso is a physical therapist 9 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: in upstate New York who works with children and the elderly. 10 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: She's also my sister. David Gould works in New York 11 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 1: City and plays clarinet with some of the world's most 12 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: prestigious ensembles. But first, I'm speaking with Dr Odette Hall, 13 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: the Suffolk County Medical Examiner here on Long Island. Last spring, 14 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: when the pandemic started with its sudden death and makeshift morgues, 15 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: I wondered how medical examiners like Dr Hall grappled with 16 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: their work. She started our conversation by explaining what a 17 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: medical examiner does. So we're looking for people who were 18 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: not under doctor's care, died unnaturally, died with no known 19 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: medical conditions. Inherent in the phrase medical examiner is the 20 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: word examined. You're there to examine and find out how 21 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: they died, correct, and not everyone gets an examination, so 22 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: most people automatically think autopsy. So when we think of examination, 23 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: we're saying the broadheading of sort of forensic examination that 24 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 1: can be an external exam. So if we have enough 25 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: information or family objects, there are situations where we will 26 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 1: sort of say we cannot honor your objection, and it 27 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: will take a court order to prevent us from doing 28 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: the autopsy, because we have the right to perform and 29 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: autopsy at our discretion. So people can actually object to 30 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: an autopsy being performed on religious grounds absolutely and have 31 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: to defer to them. What if it's part of a 32 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: criminal investigation, So in cases of threats to public health 33 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: or concern or suspicion of a homicide, that is where 34 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: we will not honor the objection without a court order 35 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: or judges order to say no, you cannot perform this autopsy. 36 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,399 Speaker 1: So in those situations we will tell the family we 37 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: hear your objection, but this is a threat to public 38 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: health or concern or suspicion of a homicide, so we 39 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: will take it to court. And in that situation, we 40 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 1: will contact the county attorney. So we have a case 41 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: that needs to go to court to override an objection, 42 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: and then they'll take it from there, and then it 43 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: goes lawyer to lawyer, and ultimately, if the judge says 44 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: you cannot perform this autopsy, then our hands are tied. Now. 45 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to speak with any kind of casualness 46 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: about the subject of death this horrible time in the 47 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: lives of their families and friends and loved ones. But 48 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: what would you say in terms of the cases you handle, 49 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: what's the top three? Actually, the vast majority of our 50 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: cases are people who just have undiagnosed natural conditions. Then 51 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: we get into accidents, and then from there we'll get 52 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: into suicide. And let me sort of put the caveat 53 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: on accident that our drug overdoses are classified as accidents 54 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: as well. When we get into certifying death, you're talking 55 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: about cause of death and you're talking about manner of death. 56 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: So by training, the cause of death is the physiologic 57 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: derangements that happened that causes a person's life to cease. 58 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: That's the formal definition, that's what's drilled into you as 59 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: a fellow. So you die of a heart attack, but 60 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: the heart attack was caused by a bucket of cocaine. 61 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: The manner of death would be accident because you're under 62 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: the influence of cocaine, which is known to be a 63 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: cardiovascular irritant. So we can find a completely blocked artery. 64 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,279 Speaker 1: But if you're positive for cocaine, then cocaine becomes contributory 65 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: and your manner of death becomes an accident because that 66 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: contributed to the cardiovascular irritation. Is it Do levels of 67 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: drugs tell you when it's a suicide, Well, it does, 68 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: But suicide is the hardest manner for a medical examiner 69 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: to prove. The burden of proof to call something a 70 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: suicide is on us just because a person has a 71 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: high level of drugs and the family says there is 72 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: no suici out of ideation history, there's no suicide attempt history, 73 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: there's no note this came out of the blue. But 74 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: this person has this sky high level of drugs. We 75 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: have the option of calling that undetermined if we feel 76 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: there's no reason why this level should exist in this 77 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: person except for the fact that you took a whole 78 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: violet pills and that can only be attentional, but if 79 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: we do not have firm ground to stand on, we 80 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: have to pull back from suicide. Speaking of that, I mean, 81 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: we're all human beings. Do some medical examiners tend out 82 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: of a kind of grace towards the family to not 83 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: make the call of a suicide unless you're a thousand 84 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: percent sure it was a suicide. That's the vast majority 85 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: of the reason why we don't make that call because 86 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: it is one of the most delicate manners of death. 87 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: To call it is very, very traumatic to the family. 88 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 1: So if you are not a hundred percent sure that 89 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: that is what the person did, and especially when we 90 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: get into our older population that may have issues with dementia, 91 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: it could be an issue of I'm supposed to take 92 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: two pills, but did I take my two pills already? Well, 93 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: let me take two more, And then an hour later 94 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: they forgot that they stop at the two pills, so 95 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 1: they took two more. So by the end of the 96 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 1: day they've got the equivalent of ten pills in their 97 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: stomach and blood levels that are through the roof. But 98 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: I can't call that person a suicide, So you have 99 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: to kind of default to undetermined where are you from 100 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: originally Jamaica? Queen's you're born in Jamaica born? And where 101 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: did you train for this job? I got my undergraduate 102 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: degree from Spellman College in Atlanta, where I majored in biology. 103 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: PREMT where'd you go to medical school? So I went 104 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: to Sunny Downstate in Brooklyn. And then when you left, 105 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: did you know this is what you wanted to do? 106 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: I went into medical school wanting to be a O. 107 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: B g y N believing in women's care for women. 108 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: But then ultimately you go through all kinds of clinical 109 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: rotations in medical school, and I did not enjoy O. 110 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: B G y N rotation, did not oh not at all. Ultimately, 111 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 1: I just found that I did not enjoy, you know, 112 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: chasing lab values, chasing X rays. I enjoyed talking to patients, 113 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I love talking to patients. They tell 114 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: you their whole life stories, and people's life stories are fascinating. 115 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: But I didn't enjoy the sort of cover your hignee 116 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: approach to medicine. But interesting how you went from the 117 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 1: beginning of life to the end of life. Yes, when 118 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: did you make that decision to get into the work 119 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 1: you're doing now? I was very very fortunate to have 120 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: attendings who watched me throughout my rotations and they said, 121 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: you know, your interests seemed to peak when you're touching 122 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: and you're seeing something like so you're either a surgeon 123 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: or a pathologist. And I said, I am not a surgeon. 124 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: You know, I'll tell a funny story on Actually my 125 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: O B G Y N rotation. We were doing an 126 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: eck topic pregnancy surgery and they have to remove the 127 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: whole fallopian too, so they put it in the cup. 128 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: They put it off to the side and they say 129 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: it's going to pathology. I said, well, you know, can 130 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: I go see it? I want to see what a 131 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 1: fellopian tube looks like. And they're like okay. So I 132 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: go upstairs to the lab and in the lab accessioning 133 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: area there are just buckets of specimens that have come 134 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: up from the O R. So I find out where 135 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: my specimen went and I go over and I'm like 136 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: I opened the jar and everyone in the lab was 137 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: staring at me, and I'm just like, oh my god, 138 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: am I doing something wrong. They're like, what does it 139 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: look like? I was like, you know, sit here all 140 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: day with all these specimens and you know, look at 141 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: them like, oh my god. I couldn't believe it, and 142 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,359 Speaker 1: it was kind of like, yeah, you're a pathologist. So 143 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: I started taking pathology electives and sort of shadowing pathology 144 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: residents and talking to pathology attendings and finding out what 145 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: it is that they do and grossing specimens and looking 146 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: at things underneath the microscope, and they call you the 147 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: doctor's doctor, because essentially you're you're almost a consultant to doctors. 148 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: Pathology literally means study of disease and injury and the 149 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: human body, and forensic pathology is pathology that has medical 150 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: legal implications to it. Your focus is unnatural deaths, so 151 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: it's sort of a little branch off of pathology. So 152 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: to become a forensic pathologist, you have to first do 153 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: pathology training. So I did my pathology training at the 154 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: University of California, Irvine, and every pathology resident has to 155 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: do a rotation in forensics. So I go to the 156 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: Orange County Medical Examiner's office and I had a wonderful 157 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: attending who just kept on saying that you want to 158 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: be a forensic pathologist. I was like, no, I don't 159 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: want to testify in court. I don't want to No, 160 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: no, no no manage, and he just kept on sort of 161 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: asking me, and by the end of the rotation, it's 162 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, can I sit on that case? 163 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: Can I do that case? He was just like yeah, sure, 164 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: you don't want to be your friends with all just 165 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: was like, okay, maybe, but interesting how in the medical 166 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: examiner's office or in something related there's a quas illegal function. Absolutely, 167 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:19,559 Speaker 1: as you said, I don't want to testify in court, 168 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: and a lot of people who do what you do 169 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: that's part of the job. And I think it's just 170 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: because I'm a relatively bashful person and I don't like 171 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: attention on me in that manner. But you get on 172 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: there and you just get into a zone and you 173 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: realize they're asking you questions about what you did, and 174 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: if you're a hundred percent confident in what you did, 175 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 1: then speaking on it doesn't become a problem. And also 176 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: they teach you to focus on the jury. You're teaching 177 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: the jury, trying to get them to understand what it 178 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: is that happened in this case, and when you put 179 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 1: it in that context, it becomes a more relaxing experience 180 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: because it's kind of like I can talk about what 181 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: I do I enjoy what I do, so telling you 182 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: what I do as lay people that felt better to me. 183 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: But also you're a profound part of the criminal justice 184 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 1: system and bringing justice and finding out what really happened 185 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: to somebody. Correct. Correct, But it's very, very, very important 186 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: to maintain objectivity. I speak to findings point nine times 187 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: out of a hundred. You're being called by the d 188 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: a's office. However, you're a neutral witness. I am just 189 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: speaking to what the body told me and what conclusion 190 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: I came to based on what the body told me, 191 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: and that is it. And when I'm meeting with d as, 192 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: I often tell them that I've got to give this information. 193 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: I will not withhold anything, I will not truncate anything. 194 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: I have to speak to the facts of the case. 195 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: And they understand that. But sometimes it helps the defense 196 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 1: and not the prosecution. Will explain to people the difference 197 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: between a medical examiner and a corner. It's very sensitive 198 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: then in the intramural juke. Other than the greatness of 199 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: one versus the kind of greatness of the other, it 200 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: is one of those things where it is one of 201 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: this medical examiner corner, you know who's greater. So corners 202 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 1: are elected and coroners do not have to be physicians, 203 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: and they don't have to be medical examiners, so they're 204 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: more like police. Correct. They could be police, they could 205 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: be politicians, and their function is typically what they do 206 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: issue cause and manner of death, but they issue it 207 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: based on somebody else's findings. So now tradition that was 208 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: historic coroner's office, you're really not going to find coroner's 209 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: office that aren't staffed and run by medical examiners. They're 210 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: going to perform the autopsies, they may turn over the findings, 211 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: and they may come to the conclusion of the cause 212 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: and matter of death, but sometimes it is under the 213 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 1: discretion of the coroner's office to sort of say whether 214 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: or not they're going to bless that cause and manner 215 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: of death. Now, you started in the medical examiner's office 216 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: win how long ago? August two thousand and nine. What 217 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: would you say has been the significant change you've seen 218 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: in the work you've done in the last twelve years. 219 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 1: Has the office changed much in its tasks? No, In 220 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 1: terms of the basics and performing forensic examinations, that doesn't 221 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: change much. Some of the technology may change, but the 222 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: fundamental of doing the exam doesn't change. What are some 223 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: of the changes you've seen in terms of the work 224 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: of your office during the COVID Beyond Death's bike COVID So, 225 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: and initially it was just learning to adjust to being 226 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: in the midst of a pandemic where they were going 227 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,719 Speaker 1: to be an increasing number of deaths. So, by definition, 228 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: COVID is under the jurisdiction of the Medical Examiner's office 229 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: because it's a threat to public health. However, largely it's 230 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: death from natural causes. Is death from a natural event, 231 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: and the vast majority of them actually aren't coming to 232 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: the Medical Examiner's office. They will be in hospitals. However, 233 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: all things death, the medical examiner sort of becomes a 234 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: portal to what do we do with the increasing number 235 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: of deaths? What do we do with storage of increasing 236 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: numbers of people dying? What do we do with these 237 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: death certificates? How do we are the death certificates? So, 238 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: in terms of body storage, what we didn't realize because 239 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: of COVID, everyone's reducing staff that applies to cemeteries, crematoriums. 240 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: I wonder if we'll come out of the COVID with 241 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: so many things changed, been forced to confront these changes, 242 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: and we wonder how those changes will be permanent, in 243 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: which the handling of these death arrangements will change permanently, 244 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: which people will sit there and go it almost doesn't 245 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 1: matter what we do with the body. But but but let 246 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: me ask you another question, which is you're you live 247 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,959 Speaker 1: in Suffolk, you live in the suburbs, and when you're 248 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: out in Suffolk County, which has less of what and 249 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: more of what crime was. It's interesting because I trained 250 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: in the city, the New York City Office of the 251 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: Chief Medical Examiner, so I spent two years their training 252 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: in forensics. So what's different is the type of like 253 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: injuries you see. And when I trained in two thousand 254 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: seven to two thousand and nine, the drug epidemic was 255 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: just starting to shift an increase, like in terms of 256 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: subway suicides, people jumping in front of trains in the subways. 257 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: There are no subways in Suffolk County. So people dropped 258 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: in front of the Long Island Railroad. How many of 259 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: them marine Suffolk County every year? Because it dozens or 260 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: just a handful, It's handful to dozens, because unfortunately, you 261 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:05,839 Speaker 1: do get circumstances where you can tell that it was 262 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: very intentional that they will on the tracks. What are 263 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: the circumstances to tell you that. Unfortunately, it's the conductors. 264 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: The eyewitness someone jumps in front of the direct correct or, 265 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: they watch the train come at them, and it is 266 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: such a traumatic event to the conductor, who cannot stop 267 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: that train even if they wanted to. But clearly that 268 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: person is intent. And again, what brings the person to 269 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 1: that point, I don't know. I can just only honor 270 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: whatever it is that they're feeling that brought them to 271 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: that point. But in terms of life going on, thinking 272 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: about the conductor, some of them are truly truly devastated 273 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 1: and impacted by events like that, and it happens too often. 274 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: So the girl from the city who's out here, what's 275 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: unique for you with a less diverse community, shall we say? 276 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: It's interesting that you say that, because it was a 277 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: unique opportunity for me in terms of a woman of 278 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: color growing up in the city where again it is 279 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: very diverse, and I did grow up in it predominantly 280 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: black community. To come out to Suffolk County and now 281 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: work in a predominantly white community and think that all 282 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: these things are going to be different, But it's actually 283 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: in essence, not we create such differences amongst ourselves and 284 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: there really aren't. So, you know, at the heart of it, 285 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: we want to love our families. At the heart of it, 286 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: we want to socialize and interact. At the heart of it, 287 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: we want to be able to play our bills. We 288 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: want to be stable, We want to be able to 289 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: sort of give back to the next generation. So in 290 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: Suffolk Counties, you almost sort of get on the defense 291 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: a little bit as a black woman coming out into 292 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: the society, you know, sort of double minority if you 293 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: will that it's going to be a struggle. It's gonna 294 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: be so hard. And when you just meet people on 295 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: the level of I want the same things that you do, 296 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: we're equal in that regard. What you just would you 297 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: like to see within the system you work in that 298 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: would help you do your job better and beyond just 299 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: more money and more staff, you know, I mean that's 300 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: number four. What's number five? You know in terms of 301 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: you know, diversity and race and issues like that. I 302 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: haven't felt that impact. You're doing a job and you're 303 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: out to get an answer. It just says what it is, 304 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: who shot this person? Not who shot this black person? 305 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: Who strangled. This person who's strangled this white person. It's 306 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: who did it, why, and let's get them. So I'm 307 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: protected in that I'm not interacting with the person on 308 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: the street corner. I'm just okay, this person is dead. 309 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: Death is the great equalizer. I'm in somewhat of a 310 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: protected bubble in that I am only charged with sort 311 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: of this person's cause and manner of death. So in 312 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: that regard, your medical examiner isn't that much involved in 313 00:15:55,560 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 1: your community. It's insulated from politics. But absolutely, Now, what 314 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: are the social services you think would benefit being funded more, 315 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: having whatever the resources they need to be more effective. 316 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: They would cut deaths that arrive at your doorstep. Drug treatment. 317 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: Drug treatment would most certainly sort of cut back on overdoses. 318 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: But mental health services. So much of drug overdoses happen 319 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: in people with mental health issues, and mental health is 320 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: just we don't want to talk about that. But mental 321 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: health is real. Mental health services is paramount to our community, 322 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: and it even goes into to some degree obesity. Some 323 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: of your overeating is a mental health issue, some of 324 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: your under eating is mental health issue. So really, at 325 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: the top of what could be addressed, I think first 326 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: and foremost mental health, and then after that things that 327 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: keep people stable. With access to living in safe environment, 328 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: living right on top of expressways, you're gonna have more 329 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: lung disease. Not having access to healthy food, you're gonna 330 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: have a lot more people eating fast foods and getting 331 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: heart disease. So people who you know, they don't have 332 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: anything walkable in their communities. Creating more parks and more 333 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 1: tracks where people can exercise and get outdoors, more knowing 334 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: what you know and seeing what you see. And that 335 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: beautiful thing you just said about mental health because of 336 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: what I believe now is that if we all get honest, 337 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: we've all been brushed by that a little bit during 338 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: What are you doing to take care of yourself? During 339 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: the COVID? What are you doing? I joke with my 340 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: friends my life was an exercise and social distancing, long 341 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: before we had the social distance. I'm in home body. 342 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: My mother is the if the sun is out, she's 343 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: got to be moving. She's got to leave the house 344 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: at least once. And my father and I we come 345 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: home on Friday, we put on a robe and we're 346 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: not back out the house until Monday. Are you just 347 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: a happy person in general? Depends on who you ask, 348 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: because you seem like one I try to be with 349 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: this job and with sort of death in general, people 350 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: who work in this industy stree have to sort of 351 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: create a barrier. You have to protect yourself. Not that 352 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: you take death lightly, but there's got to be a barrier. 353 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: You absolutely respect the person who was on your table. 354 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: There's someone's mother, brother, sister, cousin, loved one. But you 355 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: cannot throw yourself into who this person was because you 356 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: will be emotionally crippled. Um. So there's that wall that 357 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: I create. Life is to be enjoyed, absolutely, absolutely, Doctor Hall. 358 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: You are such a light. God, what a wonderful light 359 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: you have to you. I am so grateful to you, 360 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: and I hope that when I die, my body gets 361 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: sent to your office. Dr o Debt Hall is the 362 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: Suffolk County Medical Examiner on Long Island. If you've been 363 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: wondering about the impact on mental health during the pandemic, 364 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: your own or others, be sure to check out my 365 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: conversation with psychiatrist Dr Julie Holland. She says the ambiguity 366 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: about when the pandemic will end has been a challenge 367 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: from the beginning. In the beginning, everybody was like, if 368 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: I just knew when this would end, I would be okay, 369 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: you know, if I knew it was just for the summer, 370 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 1: or you know, I mean when it started, it was 371 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: like when if I know it was just April, right, 372 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: But that was a big deal. For the first few 373 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: months with my patients, was just this idea that they 374 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: needed to be able to encapsulate it. You know, if 375 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 1: it could be compartmentalized, then they could deal with it. 376 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: Here more of my conversation with psychiatrist Dr Julie Holland 377 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: that Here's the Thing dot org. After the break, I 378 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 1: talked with my sister Jane Baldwin Sasso about how she 379 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 1: moved her physical therapy practice to Zoom. I'm Alec Baldwin, 380 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: and you were listening to Here's the thing. You know 381 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: how there are some people in life who just make 382 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: everything better. My physical therapist is like that. Her treatments 383 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: make all the difference, or they did before the pandemic. 384 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: My sister Jane is a physical therapist and not mine, 385 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: of course. She works in upstate New York with children 386 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 1: and the elderly. For her was a very chaotic year. 387 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: So when COVID first came back in March. We were 388 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: very confused. We didn't really know what was happening. When 389 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: I left my school job, we got an announcement on 390 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 1: the on the p A said check your email immediately something. 391 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: So we we we we knew things were happening. We 392 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 1: just had no idea. And then we saw an email. 393 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: It said today's our last day of school. We have 394 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: no other information. So I just packed up things for 395 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: you know, the next few days, thinking well, we're a 396 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: few days off. This is weird, and then um, it 397 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,239 Speaker 1: came to be that that It just extended on and on, 398 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: and then Governor of Homo stated in May that we're 399 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: done for the school years. So we were doing a 400 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: lot of platforms like Zoom, so if you can imagine zoom. 401 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: Physical therapy with children is just very hard because they 402 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: don't understand why I'm not with them, why we're not 403 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: in school. My name is Mrs S to the kids, 404 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: and they are Mrs S. Why can't we go to 405 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: your therapy room and do what we always did? And 406 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: so you have to help to calm their concerns initially, 407 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 1: and then we have to think about really formatting things 408 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: for a computer screen is compared to they come to 409 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 1: my room and I have an obstacle course set up, 410 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: or I have mat on the floor and we're going 411 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,479 Speaker 1: to do stretching. Now we're on a zoom call, and 412 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: so it's just you have to format everything you do differently. 413 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: It's sad. It's sad for the kids, it's sad for 414 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,479 Speaker 1: the teachers and the therapists, and it's challenging. But you know, 415 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 1: we keep rising, rising to the occasion every day to 416 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: try to make it fun. We we changed the way 417 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: we do things just to engage the kids on the screen. 418 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: So I wanted to say one thing too that that, 419 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: you know, there was a little bit of a silver 420 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: lining in that the parents who never see what I 421 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: do ever because I'm in school with their children they 422 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: don't see. They really got to see firsthand, grandparents and 423 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,360 Speaker 1: parents what we do and they really were like, how 424 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: do you do this? You know, I have my kid 425 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: home now with me and I don't know how you 426 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: do it. So some of that was, you know, a 427 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: little bit insightful for the parents. And then with my 428 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: other job all summer, I started full time at the 429 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: rehab job when school ended in June and We were 430 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: in the very thick of COVID at that time, and 431 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: as you know, I worked in a in a nursing home. 432 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: They were just inundated with COVID. It was overwhelmingly stressful 433 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: and sad, and what we had to do was massive 434 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: amounts of ppe. You know, just an N ninety five 435 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 1: covered with another mask, covered with a face shield has 436 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:05,959 Speaker 1: been got COVID. Yes, he's so careful, so careful before COVID. 437 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: He's very kind of a German folk guy. But he's 438 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: always been with the kids when they were a little 439 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: wiped this and wiped that and just like that. It 440 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: was sort of ironic. But um, the only places he 441 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: really ever went to consistently was our gym, really regularly. 442 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 1: What were his symptoms and have that all play out 443 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 1: with him? How was it? What was his COVID experience? 444 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: He really um had what he thought was kind of 445 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: a tough bout with allergies. So he called our doctor 446 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: and said, hey, my, can I get something stronger than 447 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: over the counter? But um, the doctor said, well we 448 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: should get you tested. So he went to get tested 449 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: and he really was like, come on, just give me 450 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: the prescription for the allergy meds. But it turned out positive. 451 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: And then the boys and I got phone calls from 452 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: New York State Department of Health. And it was pretty 453 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: quick because pretty shortly after his results were in, within 454 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: two hours, we all got phone calls to be home immediately. 455 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: Whatever you're doing, stop what you're doing. We're like, really, 456 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: And they were pretty strict about it. With your work 457 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: with hospitals and doctors and the and your interaction with 458 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: the medical profession, is it assumed that hospitals are unsafe 459 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: places to a degree that we should avoid hospitals as 460 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 1: much as possible, you know, something. To be honest with you, 461 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: hospital admissions are so down when COVID started ramping up 462 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 1: because people who wouldn't think twice at all, I'm going 463 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: to the urgent care, I'm going to the er because 464 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 1: my I have a toenail, a hangnail, whatever. Now they're 465 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: like the last place I want to be as the hospital. 466 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 1: You know, it's very different than what it was. We 467 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: are rehab jim, which I used to joke and say, 468 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,959 Speaker 1: it's the happiest place on earth. It's restoration, it's music, 469 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: it's happiness. People come in with a grumpy face and 470 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: they leave smiling, like oh, you know, that was a 471 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: great workout, and they don't want to get up and 472 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: try to walk, but we walk them in the parallel 473 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: bars and they feel better, they feel accomplished. That's been 474 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: shut down since March seventeen. Our gym has been shut down. 475 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: We do all bedside treatments in their rooms because residents 476 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 1: in the in the nursing homes are not allowed to 477 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,199 Speaker 1: leave their rooms. It's called COVID isolation, and it's just 478 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 1: very that in and of itself for someone who's not 479 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: sick at all, is something that is detrimental. It's isolating, 480 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: it's very depressing. I go in a room now to 481 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: treat a patient and their roommate is like, hey, can 482 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: I do that with you too, just because they're lonely 483 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: and want to do I've had more roommates asked me, 484 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: you know what do you do and open the curtain? 485 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: Can I do it too? I'm like no, because I 486 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: only have a doctor's order for this person. So it's 487 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: just hard. You mentioned how school aged children, who under 488 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 1: ordinary circumstances wouldn't be able to view the work you do. 489 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: That a silver lining was for them to be exposed 490 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 1: to exactly what's going on when their their kids are 491 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: in your care and stuff with it under your direction, 492 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: whether any other silver linings are the things that have happened, 493 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,120 Speaker 1: not just work related, which is something that's happened during 494 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 1: the COVID that you said yourself, I'm gonna keep that. 495 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: We're gonna hold on to that for me, honestly, I 496 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: have grown children. My oldest is twenty three. My younger 497 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: just turned one, and we had an empty nest for 498 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: literally two months, and we we geared up for empty nest. 499 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: I was anxious about it and sick about it. I'm like, 500 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: I'm a mother and I'm so worried. And we have 501 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: the empty nest and we're loving it. We're golfing and 502 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: having a great time. And then COVID came and back 503 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: to the house came both of the kids, and you know, 504 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: they're grown, and it's it's strange to have these four 505 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 1: adults in the house that we have card nights and um, 506 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: you know, dinner. Another friend of mine texting me, said, Jane, 507 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: you're never going to have this time again, the four 508 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 1: of you, So to have us under the roof, it's 509 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: just you know, nice, and I know it's going to 510 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: come to an end. But with COVID, like you said, 511 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: we're we're home a lot more. One of the silver 512 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,159 Speaker 1: linings of the COVID from me, especially at my age, 513 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: is to realize how to take better care of myself. 514 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,239 Speaker 1: And I will imagine that when this is over and 515 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,360 Speaker 1: people can re emerge and get back into society, however 516 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: change they may be, you're gonna have a line going 517 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: down the block of people who are gonna need a 518 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: lot of body work. A lot of people said that 519 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: same thing is like I've had it. My body hurts everywhere, 520 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 1: because who do they come to if their body hurts 521 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: at the school? The teachers, my room, Jane, my neck, 522 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 1: my back. They've had a lot of teachers come to 523 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: me with you know, at a higher rate than ever before. 524 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: And I think a lot of that too is the 525 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: stress levels are high, which releases all that court as 526 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: all in your body all the time you're running kind 527 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: of on a high level of all. Thank you, Jane. 528 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: I love to you and we'll talk to you later. 529 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: Thank you, sweetie. You're welcome, very welcome. Jane Baldwin Sasso 530 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: is a physical therapist in upstate New York. If you're 531 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: enjoying this conversation, Tell a friend and be sure to follow. 532 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: Here's the thing on the I Heart radio app, Apple 533 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back. 534 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: I talked to clarinetists David Gould about COVID's impact on 535 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 1: his life as a professional musician in New York. I'm 536 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin, and this is here's the thing. The COVID 537 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: pandemic was a crushing blow to performers. For professional musicians, 538 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: especially those who perform with large ensembles, most of their 539 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: work came to a complete halt. David Gould plays clarinet 540 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: in the Orchestra of the American Ballet Theater and the 541 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: Pandemics toll goes beyond the loss of his livelihood over 542 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: the last year. The biggest effects since this obviously, I 543 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: mean the loss of my father, mother and my mother 544 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: being ill at the same time. And then you know 545 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: the same story that now over four people have gone through. 546 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: You can't be there to comfort and and all that 547 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: sort of thing. I mean, the the silver lining, if 548 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: if you can can call it that, this all this downtime, 549 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: this you know, no time playing or rehearsing or traveling 550 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: or all that sort of thing. Um, I was able 551 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: to spend more time with my family like everybody else, 552 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: and we kind of had a pod with my folks. 553 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: We would go out and spend weekends there and I 554 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: was hanging out with them, and I was helping my 555 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: dad with stuff around house, and we we got closer, 556 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: you know, we I mean we had a normal relationship 557 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: like everybody else, you know, ups and downs, but nothing bad. 558 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: But we just got closer doing things. And so that 559 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,719 Speaker 1: was the silver lining of the whole thing from that side. 560 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: You know, of course, artistically, to lose all real opportunities 561 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,959 Speaker 1: to kind of share, to be in the same place 562 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: with people in you know, in a in a hall. 563 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: I think every performer wants to share. They want to 564 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: share their story, they want to give to the audience. 565 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: And I mean, as musicians, it's our job to interpret 566 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: what someone else wrote and inspire those listening, to draw 567 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: people in, to make them love this music as well. 568 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: And there's a feeling walking out on stage, you know, 569 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: it's that feeling, the excitement, this this tangible, uh feeling 570 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: that you know, you put the you know, the uniform 571 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: or the tales or whatever it's gonna be. You're gonna 572 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: walk out and you're gonna play and share. And that's 573 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: you know, obviously the financial it is is huge. Describe 574 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: your dad. Your dad was retired. What kind of work 575 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: did he do? So he, Uh, he was a pressman 576 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: for the daily News back in the day. He did 577 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: that for about twenty seven years. And while he was 578 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: doing that, he he had his own business. Believe it 579 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: or not. He would rebuild fuel pumps and water pumps 580 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: for old cars. And uh, myself and my two brothers, 581 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: you know, the family business. So we'd come home from school, 582 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: we would help out. We would all do some of 583 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: that stuff. And it's just how it went. And but 584 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: he had been retired now all about eight or nine years, 585 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: I would say, and you know he was just you know, 586 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: enjoying life, you know, doing doing his thing. And and 587 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: thus your career as a classical artist, how did the 588 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: clarinet come into your life? It's funny the clarinet started 589 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: from him. Also, he h all three sons had to 590 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: pick up an instrument. It was you know, you're gonna 591 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: learn an instrument, that's what we do. And my older 592 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: brother played trumpet, and I looked up to him. I 593 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: wanted to play the trumpet, and my father said, no, no, 594 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: you know Robert's doing that. Why don't you, Why don't 595 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: you play the clarinet? And he was in a phase 596 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: where he was all into Already Shaw and Benny Goodman 597 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: and and uh, I don't know. We were actually at 598 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: an old car swap meat of all places, and there 599 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: was a guy there who I think was a music teacher, 600 00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: but he also did some art things and would end 601 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: up at car shows with instruments selling them, which doesn't 602 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: sound so kocier to me, but it is what it is. 603 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: So I ended up got my first clarent it that 604 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: way and made my way with it and kind of 605 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: got inspired. When I hit high school, I was a 606 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: band teacher that was inspirational and did everything we could 607 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: to not touch the table. Did your father have any 608 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: pre existing conditions? If you don't mind my asking, well, 609 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: I mean, look, he was not exactly the portrait of health. 610 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: He um, he had had some infections, he had diabetes. 611 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: How quickly did this all play out? He what happened? 612 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: You know? He went in the hospital and they I 613 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: think they were testing every few days and negative negative, negative, negative, 614 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: and then one day positive. Uh. In fact, my mother 615 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 1: caught it there too, we believe, and then they think 616 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: he got it where in the hospital. No, he had 617 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: been in the hospital for an infection. He was fighting 618 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: and he uh, they were testing him and he ended 619 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: up with it in his like second the third week 620 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: in the day, but beginning of the third week of 621 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: the hospital. So and he I within a week of 622 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: being diagnosed. Basically, yeah, oh my god. And my mother 623 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: she had it. She was at home. I mean she 624 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: for her it seemed like I would say, a bad flu. 625 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: You know, she was out really bad for about a 626 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: day and a half, two days, and then slowly, you know, 627 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: aches and pains went away. And but then I was 628 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: a Monday, and by Friday she was you know, felt 629 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: more like herself again. So, you know, in in one thing, 630 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: and this is my my thought with classical music, it's 631 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: a hundred and I don't know what is it? A 632 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: hundred a hundred and ten hundred and eighteen people people 633 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: on stage. It's not Shostakovic unless we have the whole 634 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: gang up there, you know. And uh, and I'm wondering, 635 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: do you miss your colleagues? Yeah, So I'm the luckiest 636 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: until all this, I felt like I was the luckiest 637 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: guy in the world because I'm you know, I'm a 638 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: member of an American Valley Theater orchestra and so we 639 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: play in New York in the in our season's um 640 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: But I'm also you know, a sub or an extra 641 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: musician with a lot of these great groups, and it's 642 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: special to make music together. You know, it's it's you know, 643 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: it's an ensemble of things. And it's like you said, 644 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: you don't you don't have that one part. I mean, 645 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: the show can go on, but it's not the same thing. 646 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 1: It's a family. I mean, we've had countless zoom calls 647 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: since this has gone on, and just you know, check 648 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: it in coffee time, and we spend more time i 649 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,720 Speaker 1: think with the dancers in those uh than we sometimes 650 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: are during the seasons. You know, it's just what going on? 651 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: And are you staying in touch with some of the 652 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: people you work with? Of course, you know, how are 653 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 1: they coping? You know, they're they're doing their best. The 654 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,760 Speaker 1: same thing, you know, it's the finances, so they're figuring 655 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: that out. And and also it's the same thing. You know, 656 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: one month, two months, three months, okay, six months, okay, 657 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: nine months, and you just start to hear about people 658 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 1: who are moving away, people that are selling their extra instruments, 659 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: and then finally there's some you know, I'm friendly with 660 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: a lot of jazz musicians. I mean, I know some 661 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: jazz musicians who have kind of just said I think 662 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: I'm done, you know, just because I can't. I can't 663 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: make a year eighteen months without any sort of income. 664 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: Friends of mine having a conversation a couple of us, 665 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: they working all kinds of different fields. We were talking 666 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 1: about how are all of us gonna get erased by 667 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: the COVID, Like, is the COVID gonna come back when? When? 668 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,879 Speaker 1: When it starts, people are gonna be like, well, your 669 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:18,240 Speaker 1: your career was a pre COVID career. It's literally BC 670 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: before COVID, and they want everything new. Is it like 671 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: an etch a sketch that people are gonna want to 672 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 1: just flip it over and erase everything and say let's 673 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,439 Speaker 1: start everything new. Now, you're still in the ensemble there 674 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: at ABT and you haven't benna. You've been given any indication? 675 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: Are they? Are they thinking about fall of this year? Well, 676 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,839 Speaker 1: our spring season was canceled, of course the fault. We're 677 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 1: hopeful for the fall. You know, we're hoping that it'll 678 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: that it will happen, but this, you know, we have 679 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: to wait and see, like everybody else, Like everything else. 680 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: It's unreal. You're not performing that much classical music, and 681 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: you're certainly not performing any under the circumstances you normally do. 682 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: Are you listening to more class cycle music as a result. Yeah, 683 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 1: of course. I mean I've been listening to everything from 684 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,720 Speaker 1: Brahms to Tchaikovsky to shasta Kovich, and it's almost it's 685 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,799 Speaker 1: in a way, it's got a memory lane thinking of 686 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: the things that we used to do and all this 687 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: and the concerts that we just did and projects were 688 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,319 Speaker 1: working on. But of course trying my best to listen 689 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: as much as I can. My my aunt, who's in 690 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: her eighties, who's a poet, she actually was giving me 691 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: a hard time that I don't have good speakers at home. 692 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: I should be listening to more. My kids should be 693 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: hearing more music, more classical music. What are you doing? Like? 694 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: It kind of guilted me into taking it seriously again. 695 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 1: What's a nice soothing piece you recommend people listening to 696 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: just calm them down. At the end of another COVID 697 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:52,280 Speaker 1: impacted day, I would still stand by this Brahms piano 698 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 1: Trio B Major number one. Uh, there's a recording I 699 00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 1: like with the trio to Trieste. It's an old recording. Uh. 700 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: You know, we we pick our favorite recordings based on 701 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,799 Speaker 1: what we're we hear first sometimes or what sticks with 702 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 1: us or what makes an impact. The trio d Trieste 703 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: here it is. Is that what you said? Yeah, just 704 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,720 Speaker 1: the first couple of bars you'll hear just in the piano. 705 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: It's just your shoulders drop and then the cello comes in. 706 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: It's just it's really it's magical and and no joke. 707 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: I mean it's this sounds silly, like a public service 708 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 1: announcement for classical music, but I'm just thrilled that you're 709 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 1: putting this out there for people that might not know 710 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: classical music and nobody should ever be intimidated by it. 711 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,239 Speaker 1: And that sounds maybe ridiculous, but it's you just try 712 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: a little bit end up eventually hopefully going to a concert. 713 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 1: I mean, you asked about missing colleagues. I miss my colleagues, 714 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: but I miss sitting on stage and being lost in 715 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: this sea of sounds and music, you know, the waves 716 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: and the and you get lost in there. It's it's look, 717 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: we call it playing. We're in it's fun. It's I mean, 718 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,720 Speaker 1: it's sometimes hard work, but it's really special. I always 719 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,879 Speaker 1: say that when I go to the movies, I'm often disappointed, 720 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 1: and when I go to the theater, I'm sometimes disappointed. 721 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 1: And when I go to the symphony, I'm never disappointed. Never. 722 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 1: It's the best evenings I've ever had in my life. 723 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: My god, it's it's it's one of the things I 724 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: missed the most. Thank you so much for doing this 725 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,800 Speaker 1: with us. Stay safe, Thank you so much, and stay safe, 726 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 1: be well. Clarinetist David Gould by thanks to him, Dr 727 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,800 Speaker 1: Odette Hall and my sister Jane Baldwin Sasso. I'm Alec 728 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing from my 729 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. As David Gould recommended, this is the Brahms 730 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,400 Speaker 1: Piano trio number one in B major from the Trio 731 00:38:46,600 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 1: de Trieste Ute