Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal hull. That for me, I'm
Speaker 1: a man, I'm forty. I've heard so many players say, well,
Speaker 1: I want to be happy. You want to be happy
Speaker 1: for a day? Edith state is that? Woo woo and
Speaker 1: Dan and Tie.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the celibverbal boys and girls. My name
Speaker 2: is Ty Hildenbrand, joining me as always over there in
Speaker 2: the Burbs, oh Chicago.
Speaker 1: The fugitive of this show, Dan Rubisteine, Sir, how are you?
Speaker 1: I'm pretty good. It's telling that when did we start
Speaker 1: this show. We started this show in two thousand and
Speaker 1: eight thousand eight, twelve and some odd months ago, twelve
Speaker 1: years and however many months. I can't remember ever thinking
Speaker 1: to myself, Oh, I should definitely pee before doing the show.
Speaker 1: And here we are. I think we both pee now
Speaker 1: regularly before the show because we want to give our
Speaker 1: best and fullest selves to the overballers. I didn't plan
Speaker 1: on starting my conversation like this, but here we are.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be distracted Dan.
Speaker 2: I want to make sure that most focused, that I'm listening,
Speaker 2: that I'm present in each and every moment, and that
Speaker 2: I can give the best show possible.
Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome, back, a very awkward way to start the show.
Speaker 1: That's what we're here for. Though it is March, it
Speaker 1: still is a college football show.
Speaker 2: We've got college football content that we're going to presume
Speaker 2: to bladder talk, blatder talk, shoots and bladder, shoots and bladders.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, not bad.
Speaker 2: Solidverbo at gmail dot com is the way you can
Speaker 2: get in touch. Also going out to the website soliverbal
Speaker 2: dot com or hit us up on social media. Verballers
Speaker 2: dot com is where you can go and find out
Speaker 2: all you need to know about our Patreon. We had
Speaker 2: a bit of a scheduling change. A bit of a
Speaker 2: scheduling change, I think on the last show we discussed
Speaker 2: that we're going to do childhood movies with Bill Barnwell.
Speaker 1: Yeah, kids sports movies from the nineteen nineties, with our
Speaker 1: friend Bill Barnwell of ESPN. It's NFL Free agency week,
Speaker 1: so this is one of his absolute busiest times, so
Speaker 1: we are pushing that until next month for our Patreon subscribers.
Speaker 1: Learn Moore at verballers dot com.
Speaker 2: In lieu of that awesome idea which I was excited
Speaker 2: about and still am excited about. Course, we're going to
Speaker 2: do a different off topic again, only available to Patreon.
Speaker 1: Subscriber bladder Talk.
Speaker 2: Bladder Talk coming in a very strong second. Okay, good
Speaker 2: personal tech, Dan, Yes, personal what does that?
Speaker 1: What does that mean to you? What does government mean
Speaker 1: to me? What does personal tech team to me? Anything
Speaker 1: that we used growing up as children, high school, college,
Speaker 1: be it for video games, music, television, computing, any sort
Speaker 1: of gadgetry that is digital and can be considered to
Speaker 1: be using technology. So it's it's a pretty loose term.
Speaker 1: And then up and through what we've used now, what
Speaker 1: we use now on an everyday basis, and what we
Speaker 1: hope to have in our lives. I suppose in the
Speaker 1: next year to five years.
Speaker 2: We need to we need to devote a serious amount
Speaker 2: of time to the Nokia fifty six to fifty the
Speaker 2: phone that everybody had, Literally everybody our age had that phone.
Speaker 1: I was hoping you were gonna say, the game Gear
Speaker 1: TV adapter used eight double A batteries every twenty minutes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we got a lot to discuss here. Again,
Speaker 2: that show is only available everbowlers dot Com. Check it
Speaker 2: out for more information.
Speaker 1: Okay, on today's show, Dan, Yeah, keep that we're keeping
Speaker 1: with that theme.
Speaker 2: The NCAA Tournament is starting on Friday, apparently, which I
Speaker 2: just discovered via text message.
Speaker 1: With a LINEI fan Scott. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I
Speaker 1: had no idea that this is a Friday type of
Speaker 1: thing now, but playing Drexel nearby, Drexel the Dragons, the Dragons,
Speaker 1: that's true. Just another one of the Pennsylvania teams that
Speaker 1: has made the tournament since penn State last died. I
Speaker 1: looked it up. In twenty eleven.
Speaker 2: Penn State just tired the assistant from Purdue. The assistant
Speaker 2: from Purdue. Yeah, it's h He's got a funny name.
Speaker 1: Okay, Shrew's Shrewsbury. I'll look it up. I just read
Speaker 1: about it this morning. I had no idea. Penn State
Speaker 1: lost by two to Temple in twenty eleven. Another Pennsylvania
Speaker 1: team that has repeatedly made the tournaments since Pennce State
Speaker 1: last did. I looked it up, TI, because this is
Speaker 1: what I do. The number one movie of the week
Speaker 1: the day that Penn State last appear in the NCAA
Speaker 1: Tournament was Rango Rango Johnny Depp Rango playing a chameleon.
Speaker 1: The number three movie was Red Riding Hood starring Amanda
Speaker 1: Seyfried from downtown pa Alan High. Hey, there's your full circle.
Speaker 2: Continue Micah Shrewsbury by the way, Sistan from Purdue.
Speaker 1: So what are we using as inspiration? We are using upsets,
Speaker 1: buzzer beaters as inspiration, Dan Flip little Gush Johnson as
Speaker 1: some inspiration.
Speaker 2: Here we have gone through our friend Bill Connolly's piece
Speaker 2: that he put out on ESPN dot com. I don't
Speaker 2: think it was recent. When did he publish this? Probably
Speaker 2: a couple months ago, a couple of months ago, talking
Speaker 2: about the top twenty five games of the twenty twenty season.
Speaker 2: We picked out our favorite five five upsets that we keep.
Speaker 1: Said, tuzzer beaters, something that came down to the wire, Yeah,
Speaker 1: something in the vein of what attracts people to the
Speaker 1: first round of the NCAA tournament.
Speaker 2: And so we decided we wanted to dissect these from
Speaker 2: a couple different angles. We wanted to talk about the
Speaker 2: circumstances going into the game, where each team was, what
Speaker 2: the storylines were going in, how our perception changed after
Speaker 2: just kind of a deep dive, a quick glancing blow,
Speaker 2: an oral history of some of these games as it
Speaker 2: was to be a fan in twenty ten.
Speaker 1: As two people not there as two people not there.
Speaker 1: Nobody was there depending on the game. Yeah, it's dealers choice.
Speaker 1: We came up with five games. I don't do we
Speaker 1: have any news? Do you have any like things you
Speaker 1: want to get to before we dive in.
Speaker 2: Well, we have to get to the Patriot League later.
Speaker 2: Oh true, That's the only other pressing thing that I
Speaker 2: have at this point. Right, do you want to start
Speaker 2: with LSU Florida.
Speaker 1: I would love to. Let's start LSU Florida, which was
Speaker 1: number one right on Bill C's list of the best
Speaker 1: games of the season. And I want to go through
Speaker 1: as we talk about these games, because yes, it was
Speaker 1: clearly an upset. LSU had a crazy down season and
Speaker 1: the game was in Florida and LSU was starting what
Speaker 1: their third string quarterback for the first time in this game,
Speaker 1: and Max Johnson correct. I want to go through and
Speaker 1: sort of dissect and discuss upsets in general, like what
Speaker 1: are the factors what goes into the cocktail of a
Speaker 1: college football upset? Because I think we're going to find
Speaker 1: ingredients mixers in this cocktail that are a point in
Speaker 1: all of these games. The connective tissue in all five
Speaker 1: of these games, not necessarily upsets, but a team either
Speaker 1: completing the upset or getting close or cinching the game
Speaker 1: with a buzzer beater, or holding off holding off a
Speaker 1: team that was going to upset that team. That's I
Speaker 1: think we want to find that connective tissue, especially as
Speaker 1: we look forward to games and say, oh, could this
Speaker 1: be could there be the elements, could there be the mixers?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean there is definitely a through line for
Speaker 2: four of the five. We're going to discuss the ot ball.
Speaker 2: The oddball is coastal in BYU because I.
Speaker 1: Don't even know I have a connective tissue all five.
Speaker 2: But continue, Yeah, I mean, I think the most obvious
Speaker 2: thing is that you're talking about a team with lofty expectations,
Speaker 2: perhaps title playoff conference championship aspirations, and they get knocked
Speaker 2: off by a team that nobody expects him to get
Speaker 2: knocked off by. So, like, you know, if we with
Speaker 2: Florida and LSU, Florida going into that game had lost
Speaker 2: in week three of the season on the road to
Speaker 2: A and M, but otherwise look pretty killer. They had
Speaker 2: beaten Georgia, they were number six in the college Football
Speaker 2: Playoff rankings, and they were going to get a crack
Speaker 2: at Bama in the SEC title game. So for LSU
Speaker 2: to knock off Florida, LSU was three and five headed
Speaker 2: into that game. The myth that LSU was going to
Speaker 2: go on some run to follow up the Joe Burrow
Speaker 2: season had long diminished.
Speaker 1: They were terrible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe terrible too strong a word, but they're just disappointing.
Speaker 2: They were disappointing. They were off back to back losses
Speaker 2: coming into that game against A and M and Bama.
Speaker 2: They had also lost a couple of weeks earlier to Auburn.
Speaker 2: They lost Week one against Mississippi State. Remember that's when
Speaker 2: everyone thought that the the Mike Leach experiment was going
Speaker 2: to be.
Speaker 1: You know, taking the conference by storm. Yeah, they had
Speaker 1: no quality wins at this point. They almost lost to
Speaker 1: Arkansas a couple of weeks and that Bama game was
Speaker 1: the game that featured Devonte Smith hauling in like two
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty yards worth of catches in the first half. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: So you know, LSU by no stretch is an underdog story,
Speaker 2: but they were disappointing at the point in the season
Speaker 2: when they played Florida, and Florida definitely had some SEC
Speaker 2: championship aspirations. They were going to get a crack at Bama.
Speaker 2: They knew it, and so I think, at least from
Speaker 2: our standpoint coming into this game, I remember when we
Speaker 2: previewed it, we felt like this was kind of a
Speaker 2: foregone conclusion, that Florida was just a lot better than LSU,
Speaker 2: that LSU was kind of a mess. They had this
Speaker 2: new quarterback situation, we were sorting it out. We just
Speaker 2: didn't expect much out of LSU, and Florida had a
Speaker 2: lot to play for. So for me, the through line
Speaker 2: with that this game, for Florida certainly and some of
Speaker 2: the others that were going to discuss was we had
Speaker 2: a team with lofty expectations that ultimately was felled by
Speaker 2: a team that did not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think what I have through all five of
Speaker 1: these the connective tissue is there are unexpected wrinkles, both
Speaker 1: in terms of the environment, in terms of the context
Speaker 1: of the game, and in terms of something unexpectedly novel.
Speaker 1: No pun intended with the novel Coronavirus, of course, and
Speaker 1: the wrinkles in this Florida LSU game were pretty vast, right,
Speaker 1: So Florida has no idea what to expect from a
Speaker 1: Max Johnson offense. From a freshman starting they don't really
Speaker 1: know how to game plan for. I mean, obviously he
Speaker 1: does not destroy Florida. He's fine and does make plays,
Speaker 1: but that's ultimately not the biggest reason why LSU won
Speaker 1: this game. You have the wrinkle of the fog. You
Speaker 1: have the wrinkle of a killer penalty at the end
Speaker 1: of the game to a shoe and a drive for
Speaker 1: Elise Marco Wilson and the shoe throw. You have uncharacteristic
Speaker 1: mistake and turnovers from Kyle Trask. He goes forty three
Speaker 1: touchdowns to five picks. Two of those picks were in
Speaker 1: this game. One of them was the pick six it
Speaker 1: was Eli Rix and the other one was a freak
Speaker 1: red zone interception and he also had a fumble. So
Speaker 1: there is something about any upset. And we all know
Speaker 1: this that if two teams are going head to head
Speaker 1: and there are not a lot of mistakes made and
Speaker 1: the environment is fine and normal, the better team's going
Speaker 1: to win an overwhelming number of those games. And Florida
Speaker 1: was clearly heading into that game the better team. Another wrinkle,
Speaker 1: Kyle Pitts does not suit up for Florida now Kadarius
Speaker 1: Tony is incredible and did plenty to win this game
Speaker 1: himself with his playmaking along with Kyle Trask, But there
Speaker 1: is something about I mean, really, what is a kaide
Speaker 1: York the kicker with just an uncharacteristically vast successful game winning,
Speaker 1: ultimately game winning kick, not a buzzer beater, because Florida
Speaker 1: had an opportunity at the end of the game to
Speaker 1: kick their own kick to ultimately win the game. But
Speaker 1: the wrinkles involved with I think a fifty seven yard
Speaker 1: are in the fog, so foggy that the wirecam had
Speaker 1: to take over as the main camera. Incredible, right, It's
Speaker 1: like piece soup. It was, It absolutely was, and so
Speaker 1: the wrinkles involved in this game, a game in which
Speaker 1: Florida fully out gained LSU healthily. I think it was
Speaker 1: by like two hundred issuyard they killed them. Yeah. All
Speaker 1: of that is to say LSU was good enough to
Speaker 1: take advantage of mistakes, to be in the right position
Speaker 1: to take advantage of those mistakes, and those mistakes are
Speaker 1: both mental and physical for Florida if you look at
Speaker 1: the shoe throw, but that ultimately is not what lost
Speaker 1: Florida the game, but the broader capital m mistakes on
Speaker 1: Florida's part is what lost the Gators the game. And
Speaker 1: it cannot be stressed enough that of all of the
Speaker 1: ways to lose a football game in an incredible upset,
Speaker 1: a fifty seven yard on the road in a hostile environment,
Speaker 1: in dense, dense from the fog seems like the least likely.
Speaker 1: And so this is a tip of the cap just
Speaker 1: in terms of degree of difficulty, because one of the
Speaker 1: other three points, if you look at a lot of
Speaker 1: these games, and it's not necessarily true dramatically in all
Speaker 1: of these is who's picking up free yards, who's returning
Speaker 1: an interception, who is bringing a puntback sixty four yards?
Speaker 1: Who is bringing an interception back to the opponent's eight
Speaker 1: yard line. When you get out gained, you're not necessarily
Speaker 1: knowing the full story because there are free yards to pick,
Speaker 1: the penalty yards tie, all of these things go into
Speaker 1: upsets and LSU just kept hitting, They kept checking all
Speaker 1: of those notches, all those boxes. Do you know, incredible?
Speaker 2: Do you know, according to Bill Connolly and his sp
Speaker 2: plus Advanced Metrics, what the post game win expectancy was
Speaker 2: for LSU and what the adjusted scoring margin was.
Speaker 1: So this is him taking all of the numbers, the
Speaker 1: success rates and saying, Okay, a team that is outgained
Speaker 1: and has this percentage more in terms of explosive plays,
Speaker 1: this is how often they will win a game when
Speaker 1: they have these advantages. Correct, So that's post has to
Speaker 1: be Yeah. Postgame win expectancy measures that adjusted scoring margin
Speaker 1: looks at the same stuff but then puts a point
Speaker 1: value on it. So case in point, LSU had beaten
Speaker 1: South Carolina earlier in the year by a fifty two
Speaker 1: to twenty four.
Speaker 2: Score twenty eight points. When Bill c crunched the numbers,
Speaker 2: the adjusting score adjusted scoring margin excuse me in that
Speaker 2: game was that LSU was only about thirteen points better
Speaker 2: right in this Florida game. In this Florida game, ls's
Speaker 2: post game win expectancy was one percent. That's wild one percent.
Speaker 2: I was going to guess eighty five in terms of
Speaker 2: Florida eighty five to fifteen one percent for LSU. I'm
Speaker 2: guessing the one percent comes into play because of that
Speaker 2: goofy penalty and how they threw things in favor LSU
Speaker 2: and gave them a shot. The adjusted scoring margin was
Speaker 2: that even though the final score indicated LSU one by
Speaker 2: a thirty seven to thirty four final. He has that
Speaker 2: Florida was actually twenty four points better.
Speaker 1: Which is Malik Davis, who led Florida in rushing averaged
Speaker 1: eleven point six yards per carry. Kadarius Tony, of course
Speaker 1: the Swiss Army knife for the Gators eighteen point seven
Speaker 1: yards per rush. Three carries for fifty six yards, So
Speaker 1: if my math serves, it's something like ten carries for
Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty seven I think yards in a
Speaker 1: losing effort by Florida's top two rushers, and Kadarius Tony
Speaker 1: also finished with nearly two hundred yards through the air.
Speaker 1: Perhaps we should have issued a trigger warning for Florida
Speaker 1: fans before talking about the depths of the improbabilities of
Speaker 1: this loss. But yeah, it's even though Max Johnson didn't
Speaker 1: shred Florida. He was fine. He didn't throw any pain,
Speaker 1: no picks. He made a couple of huge plays when
Speaker 1: there were coverage bus when a corner would blitz and
Speaker 1: a receiver was wide open. He threw a really nice
Speaker 1: touchdown pass early on, and it was just who grabbed
Speaker 1: who stole more of those free yards? I mean LSU
Speaker 1: was more penalized LSU didn't. I mean, it was just
Speaker 1: that pick six and the way Florida's offense stalled in
Speaker 1: the second half, with LSU eventually taking advantage that, on
Speaker 1: top of all of the capital m mistakes, won the
Speaker 1: game for LSU. So improbable, but certainly I think in
Speaker 1: line with how any team upsets another team. I don't know,
Speaker 1: do you have the spread in this game? I can
Speaker 1: look it up. I don't have it in front of me,
Speaker 1: but no, I think it's it full on matches with
Speaker 1: my elixir. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The storyline going in was that Florida is going to
Speaker 2: get a crack at Bama and this is another speed
Speaker 2: bump because the LSU had not shown much promise again
Speaker 2: they had.
Speaker 1: Lost two in a row. The storyline twenty four point
Speaker 1: favorite twenty four Yeah, yep. The storyline coming out was
Speaker 1: that Florida shot itself in the foot somewhat literally with
Speaker 1: the shoe penalty that put LSU and field goal range.
Speaker 1: And also I think on the LSU side a bit
Speaker 1: of promise because you mentioned Max Johnson and the numbers
Speaker 1: weren't eye popping twenty one to thirty six, two thirty nine,
Speaker 1: passing three touchdowns, no picks, but he just he showed
Speaker 1: a command of the offense that you know, couldn't really
Speaker 1: be represented by any of the numbers. He just really
Speaker 1: looked comfortable running first to start in the swamp in
Speaker 1: the FuG love his career.
Speaker 2: Comfortable and that was a bit of promise for LC
Speaker 2: that they took away from it. So fun game. Bill
Speaker 2: Ce had this one as number one in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Where do you want to go next?
Speaker 1: Let's go do you want to go to that coastal
Speaker 1: BYU game? You say that one for let's talk about
Speaker 1: the Civil War? Shall we? Let's talk about civil war?
Speaker 1: Let's go across the country or whatever we're going to
Speaker 1: call that matchup? Moving forward? Oh right, okay? Oregon State
Speaker 1: Oregon still the Civil War to me? Maybe to you? Okay.
Speaker 2: Oregon State wins forty one to thirty eight. Oregon headed
Speaker 2: into this game was three to oh. They had just
Speaker 2: beaten UCLA by thirty eight to thirty five margin, and
Speaker 2: they were ranked eleventh in the AP Top twenty five.
Speaker 2: Oregon State one to two. They just be cal but
Speaker 2: they had lost to both the Washington schools in the
Speaker 2: first two weeks of the year. Didn't look like Oregon
Speaker 2: State was exactly going to go on some Cinderella run
Speaker 2: to win the PAC twelve. The storyline going into this game,
Speaker 2: at least for me, by.
Speaker 1: The way, everybody watching this game, I think it was
Speaker 1: the only game on Yeah right right at the moment, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: Storyline going in for me kind of the same going out,
Speaker 2: And it wasn't so much a definitive as it was
Speaker 2: a question is this a lost season for the PAC twelve?
Speaker 1: Does it really count?
Speaker 2: Does Oregon have a realistic shot at the playoff or
Speaker 2: really anything outside of winning the PAC twelve given the
Speaker 2: odd circumstances that led to a very abbreviated PAC twelve season, Dan,
Speaker 2: what was your take on that? What was your take
Speaker 2: on that? Because I recall us having a conversation where
Speaker 2: you were like, yeah, Oregon's not good enough to be
Speaker 2: much of anything.
Speaker 1: Well, this was sort of at the height of the
Speaker 1: broadcasters treating every game as if it's important if it
Speaker 1: has clear playoff implications. We're not talking about any sort
Speaker 1: of important game if it doesn't have playoff implications. So
Speaker 1: that sort of set me off during the season of like,
Speaker 1: what can we just watch a football game and enjoy
Speaker 1: it and hope for a fun finish and good performances. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: this was clear in this game. Watching this game because Oregon,
Speaker 1: because well they were undefeated, there were three and oh
Speaker 1: coming game I believe. Yeah, I was not a big
Speaker 1: believer in Oregon. And the passing game started showing some
Speaker 1: weakness and some struggle. UCLA was blitzing the hell out
Speaker 1: of Tyler Shuck and he was struggling with that. So
Speaker 1: there were some moments and they were kind of sloppy
Speaker 1: against Wazoo, but they pulled that out in a strong
Speaker 1: second half. Oregon looked like they were going to run
Speaker 1: away with this one. They scored twenty one within the
Speaker 1: first quarter and three or four minutes. They were humming
Speaker 1: offensively and getting enough stops. The issue is they weren't
Speaker 1: tackling all game long. Even when they were getting stops,
Speaker 1: they weren't tackling, and tackling is about effort. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to accuse Oregon players of not playing with effort,
Speaker 1: but for whatever reason, they were not tackling well in
Speaker 1: this game. And there's another game that can be highlighted
Speaker 1: with that lack of tackling acumen that we're going to
Speaker 1: get into as well. So what struck me about this
Speaker 1: game is Oregon as a team on both sides of
Speaker 1: the ball, they came up short situationally and in high
Speaker 1: leverage moments, even though they got a stop with I
Speaker 1: think two minutes left in this game up, they're winning
Speaker 1: in this game with two minutes and they get a
Speaker 1: stop deep in their own territory, Oregon States driving. They
Speaker 1: go for it on fourth and ten and Oregon gets
Speaker 1: a stop, so they essentially need a first down or
Speaker 1: two to ice this game, and they immediately get two.
Speaker 1: Basically nothing gains on the ground to let the clock
Speaker 1: tick and have Oregon State called timeouts and then they
Speaker 1: throw it, which is controversial, right the idea of third
Speaker 1: and ten, we can take forty seconds off with an
Speaker 1: inconsequential run and punt it or force the team to
Speaker 1: I don't remember recall how many timeouts Oregon State had
Speaker 1: left in that moment. I don't know if they had any,
Speaker 1: But any case, that's the conservative yet somewhat if not
Speaker 1: usually effective move right play clock. So they decide to
Speaker 1: pass it, and it was another example of Oregon really
Speaker 1: struggling through the air. Tyler Schuck struggling to lead this
Speaker 1: offense in a high leverage moment late in the game
Speaker 1: and threw a nothing incomplete pass gave the ball back
Speaker 1: to Oregon State. Oregon couldn't get any drops, their linebackers
Speaker 1: struggled in coverage of this game. And this was another
Speaker 1: foggy game, by the way, So there's your wrinkle. There's
Speaker 1: a wrinkle a rival game with fog and LSU Florida
Speaker 1: is its own rivalry, of course, but it's a it's
Speaker 1: a rivalry game with fog with I think Oregon's missing
Speaker 1: a key receiver. I don't think Micah Pittman played in
Speaker 1: this game, but whatever, everybody's missing players all season long
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty and just looking uncomfortable. Whereas Oregon State
Speaker 1: was coming up big, Tristan Jebbia came up really nicely
Speaker 1: in big moments. Jamar Jefferson obviously ran all over Oregon State,
Speaker 1: and Oregon did have a shot at the end of
Speaker 1: this game to get I suppose into field goal range,
Speaker 1: but at this point Oregon didn't really have a kicking
Speaker 1: game to speak of, so I don't know how much
Speaker 1: of an option that was. But those last two drives
Speaker 1: for the Oregon offense were indicative of a team that
Speaker 1: was not prepared to close out games no matter the
Speaker 1: quality of opponent. And so Oregon State just showed up
Speaker 1: to the game, showed up to the moment, and made
Speaker 1: those plays. And there were the stops at the end
Speaker 1: of the game that you know Oregon was trying to
Speaker 1: get a goal line stand and ultimately that took off
Speaker 1: a lot of time and Oregon State eventually punches it
Speaker 1: in and there was there was no real cohesive plan
Speaker 1: at the end of the game for Tyler Schuck to
Speaker 1: go downfield successfully throw double coverage a couple times. And
Speaker 1: Oregon State the clear, clear better team one at home
Speaker 1: in the fog, and I can pull up the spread
Speaker 1: in this game, but it was it was striking to
Speaker 1: see how much over the course of the game this
Speaker 1: Oregon offense stalled like it came out in such impressive fashion.
Speaker 1: And the three point is winning on the road is tough.
Speaker 1: Winning on the road and the fog is tough. And
Speaker 1: Oregon State was sort of a team with nothing to lose.
Speaker 1: They outgained Oregon, they played hard, and they rose to
Speaker 1: every large occasion. And Oregon by the way, with three
Speaker 1: turnovers in Oregon State with none, still with an opportunity
Speaker 1: to win.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and still with a sixty two percent postgame win expectancy, sure,
Speaker 2: which if you've turned the ball over a couple times
Speaker 2: like that, you don't usually have a number that high.
Speaker 2: Bill c still has them as about a three point
Speaker 2: victor in the game, kind of again adjusted scoring margins, so.
Speaker 1: A close game by any stretch.
Speaker 2: He's not looking at this one in the same manner
Speaker 2: that he did the Florida LSU game.
Speaker 1: It was obviously much tighter, you.
Speaker 2: Know, rightly or wrongly, Dan, After Oregon dropped this game,
Speaker 2: we still covered the PAC twelve.
Speaker 1: We always cover everybody.
Speaker 2: But in my mind, I sort of just like lost
Speaker 2: a lot of the expectations I had for the PAC twelve.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it wasn't It wasn't like a there
Speaker 1: was something I was gonna say something interesting about LSU
Speaker 1: Florida was not a high quality football game. No, it
Speaker 1: got you win from Morgan State. But it's not like
Speaker 1: you left that game thinking, man, just Haymakers after Haymakers.
Speaker 1: Now somebody had to lose.
Speaker 2: Dan, I think we've been conditioned to look at a
Speaker 2: week what was this thirteen game?
Speaker 1: A rivalry game.
Speaker 2: Like it's got some real national significance, And in hindsight,
Speaker 2: none of these games really did. They just they didn't
Speaker 2: really And after Oregon lost, it was kind of like
Speaker 2: the dam broke for me, and I just kind of
Speaker 2: didn't care about the PAC twelve in the same way
Speaker 2: that I might otherwise, which is.
Speaker 1: Through no fouth of the PAC twelve.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was really hard to get jazzed up
Speaker 2: for Pac twelve football after what I thought was the
Speaker 2: best team in the conference lost on the road to
Speaker 2: its biggest rival.
Speaker 1: I think that's correct. Yep, all right, let's go to
Speaker 1: Indiana Penn State. Let's oh man, there's a lot to
Speaker 1: unpack here.
Speaker 2: So this is different because I think all the other
Speaker 2: games that we're going to discuss happened after teams had
Speaker 2: played at least one game. We're gonna talk about Texas Twistech.
Speaker 2: That was the second game of the year for both teams.
Speaker 2: But in the case of Penn State Indiana, both teams
Speaker 2: were unbeaten and untested because it was week one.
Speaker 1: Yes, this is an upset of expectations. Yeah, of the season.
Speaker 2: Remember now, the Big Ten season was delayed until Week
Speaker 2: eight of the larger season that was twenty twenty, so
Speaker 2: we really had no idea what to expect.
Speaker 1: We were both pretty high on Indiana. We liked Indiana.
Speaker 1: We felt like they were building something we still do.
Speaker 2: Penn State had gotten a lot of acclaim going into
Speaker 2: this season. They had Micah Parsons who was opting out,
Speaker 2: but I think we still thought very highly of what
Speaker 2: Penn State could do. And despite the fact that we
Speaker 2: didn't really know what to expect, it was kind of
Speaker 2: a thought that Penn State is going to play Ohio
Speaker 2: State pretty early on in the year, and that could
Speaker 2: benefit Penn State because you know Ohio States, maybe they're
Speaker 2: going to be a little untested, Maybe because of COVID
Speaker 2: they're not going to be there are.
Speaker 1: Lost bunch of key guys on defense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the secondary right, we had questions like Penn State
Speaker 2: could take advantage of this. So going into the game,
Speaker 2: I think we were pretty excited about it. I remember
Speaker 2: watching on my patio on my iPad and just being
Speaker 2: transfixed by the way that this game unfolded. Sure, if
Speaker 2: you look at Bill C's post game win expectancy, the
Speaker 2: takeaway here is that Penn State played well enough to win,
Speaker 2: and he had them at a ninety five percent postgame
Speaker 2: win expectancy that they were fifteen or sixteen points better
Speaker 2: than Indiana. But Indiana capitalized on the opportunities that it
Speaker 2: did get, and this one had an unbelievablending went to overtime.
Speaker 2: Indiana eventually ends up winning thirty six to thirty five,
Speaker 2: going for two in overtime. That amazing play where Michael
Speaker 2: Penick scrambles to his left, he lays out dives towards
Speaker 2: the pylon. The refs gave it to him. Replay was inconclusive.
Speaker 1: I still feel like he was short, okay, but he
Speaker 1: got the call and there wasn't enough to overturn it.
Speaker 1: Regardless of how you feel about that play, an incredible
Speaker 1: individual effort by Panics to at least give his team
Speaker 1: a shot to win the football game. So a lot
Speaker 1: to unpack about the game itself. The immediate takeaway for
Speaker 1: me was that Indiana was legit, and also that penn
Speaker 1: stated played well enough to win in some regard. The
Speaker 1: longer term takeaway is actually a lot more interesting to
Speaker 1: me because it was still that Indiana was legit a
Speaker 1: really good team, nobody will deny that, but also that
Speaker 1: a little bit of the luster of that Penn State
Speaker 1: win had faded, if only because Penn State started zero
Speaker 1: to five, right and they lost to al State, and
Speaker 1: then they lost to Maryland Nebraska in Iowa. It took
Speaker 1: them a while to get it together down the stretch.
Speaker 1: They got better and they ripped off a couple wins
Speaker 1: to close out the season, but certainly by virtue of
Speaker 1: Penn State losing a bunch four games after that Indiana game,
Speaker 1: it was a little bit of a diminished accomplishment for Indiana,
Speaker 1: rightly or wrongly wrongly. I mean, look, Indiana did not
Speaker 1: play that good of a game. This was not LSU
Speaker 1: played an interesting game against Florida. They made big plays.
Speaker 1: They came up big in big moments, and same can
Speaker 1: be said for Oregon State. They the plays were made
Speaker 1: Indiana on offense especially. I mean we're talking about what
Speaker 1: Penn State missed three few goals, one of which was
Speaker 1: a twenty five yarder. Yes, they commit ten penalties for
Speaker 1: one hundred yards, so which is okay in week one, right,
Speaker 1: you can you can get things fixed. I mean not
Speaker 1: that Penn State necessarily did in terms of mistakes, but
Speaker 1: the game was there for Penn State as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: and Indiana, I suppose what's the adage of, like, you
Speaker 1: don't have to be faster than a bear, you just
Speaker 1: have to be faster than your friend faster. You don't
Speaker 1: have to be faster than the bear, just faster than
Speaker 1: your buddy. Yeah right, And so I in rewatching this game,
Speaker 1: it was pretty obvious to me that both Indiana and
Speaker 1: Penn State slathered themselves in beef and then decided to
Speaker 1: run into an area populated by, you know, mistake prone bears,
Speaker 1: which is what this game was a giant mistake prone
Speaker 1: bear coming for somebody. And so Penn State makes those mistakes.
Speaker 1: And even that first drive is a thirteen play drive.
Speaker 1: And the thing that was striking about and I don't
Speaker 1: watch this game first, is the Penn State offense, intentionally
Speaker 1: or not, was basically built around like, hey, we're going
Speaker 1: to run RPOs and hope for six or seven yards
Speaker 1: and maybe we'll get three or four. And there is
Speaker 1: something so dangerous about trusting college kids to execute fully
Speaker 1: all eleven dudes for long drives. And that ultimately is
Speaker 1: aside from the field goal. I mean, Sean Clifford was
Speaker 1: off and you guys were getting beat repeatedly in one
Speaker 1: on one matchups, and there was just something about Indiana
Speaker 1: hanging around. Was that Marci player on the first line
Speaker 1: of sexydunty. This was a hangaround game for Indiana. Obviously,
Speaker 1: Sean Clifford connects with Johan Dotson late for that big
Speaker 1: I think it was a sixty yard touchdown, But otherwise
Speaker 1: there was not much to either one of these offenses,
Speaker 1: and Indiana took advantage when they could, and the defense
Speaker 1: played pretty well and just kept Penn State's offense and
Speaker 1: check but offensively, there was nothing remarkable about about excuse me,
Speaker 1: Indiana rising to the moment. So this is one of
Speaker 1: those games where somebody has to win, somebody has to win,
Speaker 1: and that play was that wrinkle. I suppose in terms
Speaker 1: of this game, that freak play overtime, But this was
Speaker 1: not a classic upset, more of a happenstance kind of upset,
Speaker 1: and that's okay. But the wrinkle was that it's week
Speaker 1: one and that Penn State uncharacteristically made just maybe characteristic
Speaker 1: for twenty twenty, but just a myriad of mistakes, and
Speaker 1: that's where Indiana was able to take advantage of those.
Speaker 2: Free yards and I seem to recall going into this
Speaker 2: game that one of our talking points on the preview
Speaker 2: show was that you should take Indiana and the points.
Speaker 2: What did we say that the point spread was here,
Speaker 2: I'm looking at it everything like five points, I forget,
Speaker 2: but it was a lower number.
Speaker 1: Seven points touchdown.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember saying this is a great place to
Speaker 2: take Indiana because what we were seeing as a trend
Speaker 2: at that point was in the early part of the
Speaker 2: season for pretty much every team they were playing below expectations.
Speaker 2: There was just such goofy circumstances that brought us to
Speaker 2: the start of the season at all that it was.
Speaker 2: It was a bridge too far to expect that anyone
Speaker 2: was going to go out there and just be killer.
Speaker 2: So hopefully you cashed Indiana in getting the plus value there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I plus to be thrilled to have.
Speaker 2: Plus two five money line. So you getting two to
Speaker 2: one odds on Indiana to win.
Speaker 1: Outright, it was such a bad offense to watch of
Speaker 1: Penn States, even aside from the interceptions, it was just
Speaker 1: it felt like they were trying to win five yard fields. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all year, all year, and there's I don't know, if
Speaker 1: you watch that Sark Clinic talk that he gave right
Speaker 1: where he talked about how he almost never, if ever,
Speaker 1: has routes run by Alabama receivers that involved them stopping
Speaker 1: and sitting in zones or you know, stopping right, you know,
Speaker 1: come back, like he doesn't have that. He wants his
Speaker 1: receivers catching the ball in stride just because he wants
Speaker 1: explosive plays. He doesn't want to trust eleven guys working
Speaker 1: perfectly together for eleven, twelve, thirteen plays every drive. And
Speaker 1: there was something about that Penn State offense where like,
Speaker 1: I hear you, but what if we just four and
Speaker 1: a half yard at at a time? It was tough,
Speaker 1: all right, and that's why they made a change. Let's
Speaker 1: go to the great State of Texas.
Speaker 2: Dan.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, what a game.
Speaker 2: Both teams had played one game. Texas Tech barely beat
Speaker 2: Houston Baptist thirty five thirty three. Bill connolly had them
Speaker 2: losing by three or four points postgame adjusted scoring margin.
Speaker 2: So not a great start for Texas Tech.
Speaker 1: In Matt Wells.
Speaker 2: On the Texas side, they were one to zero. They
Speaker 2: were a top ten team. They had just completely retooled
Speaker 2: offense and defense in the offseason, so a lot of
Speaker 2: promise for Tom Herman coming into this year with what
Speaker 2: they could do with this new staff. Now, I think
Speaker 2: in hindsight we recognize really difficult circumstances. We say it
Speaker 2: a thousand times a show, really difficult circumstances to install
Speaker 2: anything new. You're doing calls and game planning over zoom like.
Speaker 2: It's just it was not optimal for anybody. But the
Speaker 2: playing field was level in that regard. The storyline going
Speaker 2: in was that Texas had all this hope. The storyline
Speaker 2: coming out was, Okay, we beat Texas Tech by seven
Speaker 2: in overtime. Maybe still a work in progress. Dan scratched
Speaker 2: and clawed.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe maybe not quite the upset, but Herman needed
Speaker 1: to shape up. It was a buzz though it ended
Speaker 1: with what a pick at the end? Right? Yes, yes
Speaker 1: it did. Okay, it's a buzzer beater in its own way.
Speaker 2: Texas followed up this effort by dropping too straight to
Speaker 2: TCU and Oklahoma, and maybe this was a harbinger of
Speaker 2: things to come.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Obviously, Tom Herman is no longer the
Speaker 1: head football coach at u T at Austin. But this
Speaker 1: is a fun game.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of offense, right, There was There was
Speaker 2: a lot here from a fans standpoint to just watch
Speaker 2: and enjoy the points. But certainly, if you were a
Speaker 2: Texas fan, this is the not the showing that you wanted.
Speaker 1: On defense, Do you know how hard it is for
Speaker 1: Texas to be down what they were down fifteen and
Speaker 1: make that comeback thanks to an on sidekick in the
Speaker 1: last second drive to send it to overtime and then
Speaker 1: win it in overtime? Do you know how hard it
Speaker 1: is to do when the defense completely other than one
Speaker 1: play they stopped Texas Tech on the ground. They pick
Speaker 1: off British comedy legend Alan Bowman three times, Sam Ellen
Speaker 1: Girl only throws one pick. They move the ball pretty
Speaker 1: well all at least in that middle section of the game,
Speaker 1: the first half especially. I think they scored what thirty
Speaker 1: points in the first half. You scored thirty points in
Speaker 1: the first half of a game and you still have
Speaker 1: to claw back because you're down big is a wild
Speaker 1: way to live your life as a football program. And
Speaker 1: you're right, and we talked about this too with Tom Herman,
Speaker 1: where it's just like, if this is where they are,
Speaker 1: this many years into Tom Herman's tenure, where they need
Speaker 1: to come back to win by double digits against a
Speaker 1: flawed Texas Tech team, not a horrible Texas Tech team,
Speaker 1: but one that just got by Houston Baptist barely. This
Speaker 1: is how old is your niece or your oldest niece.
Speaker 1: Oldest niece is going to be ten eleven, it's going
Speaker 1: to be eleven. Yeah, it's going to be eleven years old.
Speaker 1: If you were to play her one on one on
Speaker 1: the basketball court and spot her five, playing up to eleven,
Speaker 1: but all of a sudden you're down nine to one,
Speaker 1: and all you're like, oh, I have to get my
Speaker 1: act together, yea quickly. I have to scramble and start
Speaker 1: swatting shots and being mean because I can't lose this game.
Speaker 1: It had that vibe on the rewatch tie. It absolutely
Speaker 1: had that vibe on the rewatch and I, you know,
Speaker 1: I opted out of Texas football and sort of pouring
Speaker 1: a lot of emotion into the Horns pretty early on
Speaker 1: in the season after games like this. But watching this
Speaker 1: game specifically Texas Tech was really fun. On offense. It
Speaker 1: was what TJ. Vasher made big plays, Dude, Kashan Carter
Speaker 1: like they It was an explosive play aganza. And that's
Speaker 1: the wrinkle to me is that you know, Texas needs
Speaker 1: to pull out this game. They need that on side kick,
Speaker 1: they need that last second drive, and they need that
Speaker 1: pick to seal things. But it's just if you are
Speaker 1: looking to quote unquote upset a team, you need to
Speaker 1: be turnover focused on defense, so taking chances and you know,
Speaker 1: getting hands and passing lanes by your defensive line, whatever,
Speaker 1: getting tips, which Texas Tech was able to do. They
Speaker 1: turn turnovers into points. But also you got to take shots.
Speaker 1: You cannot hope to nickel and dime your way to
Speaker 1: an upset win. No matter what Indiana was able to
Speaker 1: pull off. That is not a great strategy for defeating
Speaker 1: a team consider more talented than your team. And so
Speaker 1: what Tech was able to do four penalties for fifteen
Speaker 1: yards Texas ten for one hundred. There's you're hidden yards
Speaker 1: in this game. And even though Tech does out turn
Speaker 1: over the Horns, they also out explosive played the Horns.
Speaker 1: You know, that huge run from Sir Rodrick Wasroderick Thompson,
Speaker 1: that's his name, was incredible and the Texas tackling was
Speaker 1: so woeful all game long. They not only should have
Speaker 1: lost this game, they probably could have lost to Houston
Speaker 1: Baptist the way that they were tackling, especially early on
Speaker 1: in the season. Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2: The interesting thing for me now headed into the sark Era,
Speaker 2: especially in light of what we saw last year, they
Speaker 2: had the same sequence of games Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma
Speaker 2: Okay earlier in the year, starting the end of September.
Speaker 2: So hopefully for their sake, it goes a little bit
Speaker 2: of a different direction and they're not witting by the
Speaker 2: skin of their t Keith against Texas Tech and then
Speaker 2: losing to TCU in Oklahoma.
Speaker 1: But we'll see. I don't know, they have their chance
Speaker 1: to get some redemption a year later. I almost can understand,
Speaker 1: and I can write off major tackling issues early on
Speaker 1: in the twenty twenty season when you don't have that
Speaker 1: same sort of live fall camps you know, to get
Speaker 1: used to. I mean, it's about effort, but it's also
Speaker 1: about just comfort in a system. I can write off
Speaker 1: that to a certain extent for a number of teams
Speaker 1: early on in twenty twenty. But with a fourth year
Speaker 1: starting quarterback to not have that kind of explosive offensive
Speaker 1: success all game long against Texas Tech, that's the part
Speaker 1: that seems inexcusable. They had big plays and then they
Speaker 1: just would become wildly inefficient, you know the next drive.
Speaker 1: So that to me was the takeaway that, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: this was almost more obvious than anything else. You know,
Speaker 1: they have the loss to TCU where they get pushed
Speaker 1: around on the ground but needing over time and get
Speaker 1: having up fifty plus points to Texas Tech, Like, well,
Speaker 1: the program clearly hasn't arrived to an acceptable place. So yeah,
Speaker 1: this was it was a good hold on, I suppose,
Speaker 1: and wild It was a wildly entertaining game at the
Speaker 1: end of the fourth quarter in overtime, but damn the
Speaker 1: wrinkles were there all right.
Speaker 2: And our final game here, Dan is the bigin this
Speaker 2: is the big en Coastal Carolina twenty two BYU seventeen.
Speaker 2: So here is the lay of the land headed into
Speaker 2: this game. Coastal was nine to zero. They were eighteenth
Speaker 2: in the College Football Playoff rankings, highering the other polls.
Speaker 2: In general, though, just a ton of fun to watch,
Speaker 2: kind of the darling of the twenty twenty season. A
Speaker 2: lot of folks didn't know who they were. Had the
Speaker 2: heel field, the shot of the close calls too A
Speaker 2: bunch of close calls. They're fun to watch, and if
Speaker 2: you watch this game, if you watch any Coastal Carolina,
Speaker 2: they were legit fun as hell to watch because I think,
Speaker 2: as I've said time and again, their offense is a
Speaker 2: combination of every offense.
Speaker 1: Every offense they're like, that's what they do. They do everything,
Speaker 1: So that is the wrinkle for them.
Speaker 2: And Grayson McCall, their quarterback, the freshman, very very good,
Speaker 2: no doubt about it. On the BYU side of things,
Speaker 2: they were also nine to zero headed into this game.
Speaker 2: Their quarterback, Zach Wilson is going to get drafted very
Speaker 2: highly in the upcoming NFL Draft. They were thirteenth in
Speaker 2: the college football playoff rankings headed into this game, but
Speaker 2: eighth in the Associated Press poll, so people thought very
Speaker 2: highly of the Kops headed into this football game.
Speaker 1: This is my favorite game of the year. This is
Speaker 1: my favorite game of the year.
Speaker 2: And the oddity here was that it came together sixty
Speaker 2: hours before kickoff. Due to circumstances. Coastal was supposed to
Speaker 2: play Liberty, but the Flames had a COVID issue. A
Speaker 2: bunch of guys came down with it. They couldn't follow
Speaker 2: through and play that game. But BYU was also looking
Speaker 2: for an opponent, and so they made it happen. They
Speaker 2: made it happen. The game did not disappoint. The takeaway
Speaker 2: here was that both teams acquitted themselves quite well for
Speaker 2: my money, the game of the year. The bigger thing,
Speaker 2: which we can talk more about after we talked about
Speaker 2: the game itself, was I think that college football should
Speaker 2: take another look at how it allows teams to schedule.
Speaker 2: We're so used to this policy of scheduling games fifteen
Speaker 2: years in advance, the home and homes with Alabama or
Speaker 2: Ohio State.
Speaker 1: But this one came together.
Speaker 2: A couple hours before, sixty hours before it actually happened,
Speaker 2: and it did not disappoint. It was exactly what we
Speaker 2: needed at that moment in the college football season. Dax
Speaker 2: Milne for BYU stopped.
Speaker 1: Like a yard short as time expired.
Speaker 2: So a great ending, an awesome matchup Mormons versus Mullets.
Speaker 2: So this had everything that you want as a college
Speaker 2: football fan. A lot people got into it. I remember
Speaker 2: they made a big deal of it on College Game Day.
Speaker 1: Of course it was Field Conway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a great moment for both schools to be part
Speaker 2: of this and truly I don't say this slightly truly,
Speaker 2: this is what we needed in twenty twenty as sports fans,
Speaker 2: because so much of the season had been a flaming
Speaker 2: pile of you know what sure postpone Min's uncertainty weekend
Speaker 2: and week out. They effectively steered into all of that
Speaker 2: and gave us the best game of the year. So
Speaker 2: I will always remember this game fondly. I hope BYU
Speaker 2: fans do as well, even though it didn't have the
Speaker 2: desired outcome, Just to be part of that I think
Speaker 2: is really unique and special in a otherwise strange season.
Speaker 1: Agree agree, but still disagree with punting on fourth and
Speaker 1: two from your own forty seven to close out the game.
Speaker 1: Still disagree with it. Even though Bhyu drove the length
Speaker 1: of the field pretty quickly and they got to what
Speaker 1: the one or two yard line where they were, they
Speaker 1: were still owned to try to win this game because
Speaker 1: they're down five, so they have to get into the
Speaker 1: end zone. So still disagree with that call, I thought
Speaker 1: because of how well Coastal played, and the wrinkle in
Speaker 1: this game is obviously what you mentioned, the Coastal offense
Speaker 1: and preparing for it with almost no time because of
Speaker 1: that option element because of the unorthodox way that the
Speaker 1: Shans play on offense where they can throw the ball,
Speaker 1: but there is that option element that's quite successful as well.
Speaker 1: That to me was the difference, and of course the
Speaker 1: wrinkle of just not having time in general and traveling
Speaker 1: across the country, going from Provo to Conways, It's got
Speaker 1: to be some kind of weird journey to connect those
Speaker 1: two places. So I understand all of that. In rewatching
Speaker 1: the game was it was so clear to me that
Speaker 1: watching Zach Wilson play football that it would have been
Speaker 1: far more interesting to watch him play and this is
Speaker 1: no intended slide at BYU to see him against bigger opponents,
Speaker 1: to see him on a bigger stage, to see him
Speaker 1: perhaps with a bigger time receiver. And I like this guy.
Speaker 1: It was a dex Milne and gosh were the I
Speaker 1: mean it was Tyson Algeer in the backfield. All these
Speaker 1: names start flowing away from my brain when we get
Speaker 1: into this Neil Neil Powe, Neil nick Pow, Neil Powe.
Speaker 1: I think there was a Romney prominently featured with BYU.
Speaker 1: So there was something about this game with Coastal really
Speaker 1: bending and not trying to break that paid off. That
Speaker 1: is a way to win this game. But yeah, this
Speaker 1: game definitely had the feel of the Wrinkle. It definitely
Speaker 1: had the feel of UH BYU not fully adjusting in
Speaker 1: those big moments to figuring out what Coastal can do
Speaker 1: on the ground, especially with Grayson McCall. I loved rewatching
Speaker 1: this game because there this was one of those very
Speaker 1: rare games where you could kind of get a sense
Speaker 1: for the emotion involved in the stadium. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: any team was wrong to limit fans or have no
Speaker 1: fans like do your thing. I understand every cent of that,
Speaker 1: but also there was something nice about if you suspend
Speaker 1: everything in your brain. There was something nice about sensing
Speaker 1: the energy in a stadium for a big game that
Speaker 1: this game also featured.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think to the point just the fact
Speaker 2: that it was BYU, that it was Coastal Carolina, two
Speaker 2: teams that are not used to being featured on this
Speaker 2: kind of stage, it was very fitting of the twenty
Speaker 2: twenty season that they brought us as much joy as
Speaker 2: they did.
Speaker 1: Do you think that and I think the answer is yes,
Speaker 1: but that's my opinion. Do you think that there is
Speaker 1: something or there was something so appealing about this matchup,
Speaker 1: not just because of the way it came together, but
Speaker 1: because the top of the sport, even with what BYU
Speaker 1: and Coastal are both undefeated at this point. Do you
Speaker 1: think there was something inherently and newly appealing about two
Speaker 1: undefeated teams playing with no chance at playing in the
Speaker 1: college football Playoff? No matter what you might have thought
Speaker 1: about BYU at the time, they were the more likely
Speaker 1: to him, I guess, but no chance of the playoff
Speaker 1: that this was there was something refreshing about caring about
Speaker 1: a game not having to do with the playoff, and
Speaker 1: also just it lived outside of the foregone conclusion section
Speaker 1: of the sport that the teams that are so advantaged
Speaker 1: like Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, you know, George, Oklahoma, all
Speaker 1: these schools that there was there was something nice about
Speaker 1: watching this game that just had fun implications, not playoff implications.
Speaker 1: Oh for sure, for sure? And yeah no, so I
Speaker 1: agree one hundred percent. There it's a pushback against that
Speaker 1: element of the sport.
Speaker 2: Well, and you always have that with college football, right
Speaker 2: you had that with UCF. Remember when they declared themselves
Speaker 2: national champions and we had folks riding in calling, in
Speaker 2: telling us UCF deserves a shot. You always have that
Speaker 2: underdog component to college football, and that's part of what
Speaker 2: makes it special. So the underdog story to me was
Speaker 2: first off, that they played the game at all, and
Speaker 2: then secondly that this got the kind of stage that
Speaker 2: it did because of how it came about. Because both
Speaker 2: teams to that point and through the season, frankly had
Speaker 2: really good years. They're both up there worth talking about,
Speaker 2: worth watching.
Speaker 1: These are really good teams. Yeah. I will push back.
Speaker 2: A little bit though, on the point that neither one
Speaker 2: had a shot. I think we know in hindsight, and
Speaker 2: I think we knew if we thought about it, if
Speaker 2: we really came to our senses, we knew that neither
Speaker 2: team was going to play for anything. But at the time,
Speaker 2: like we were postponing games left and right, we didn't
Speaker 2: even know if there would be a playoff, a bowl season,
Speaker 2: a postseason. So I think there was definitely an element
Speaker 2: here of not taking anything for granted moving forward, and
Speaker 2: that's what made this game as bet as it ended
Speaker 2: up being. We just didn't know what the future was
Speaker 2: going to hold in football, in life, there's a lot
Speaker 2: going sideways I.
Speaker 1: Had forgotten about the fact that there was there was
Speaker 1: no love lost between these two love them, they hated
Speaker 1: each other. It was it was contentious. You had the
Speaker 1: halftime fight because of the way that Coastal players went
Speaker 1: after Zach Wilson when he threw that Hail Mary pick,
Speaker 1: and you know, I think they try to double team
Speaker 1: block him, like, oh, this is opportunity to hit him
Speaker 1: with live play going on. And so there was a
Speaker 1: scrap at midfield at the start of halftime. So I
Speaker 1: just I like that inherent emotion. Oh yeah, fighting and
Speaker 1: getting hurt. But you know, it was it was nice
Speaker 1: to feel the bad blood. Yeah, to feel to feel
Speaker 1: that bad blood.
Speaker 2: It felt very authentic in a way that look, we
Speaker 2: talked to a lot of college football fans, a lot
Speaker 2: of people were very ambivalent about this season, didn't know
Speaker 2: how to feel sure, and this authentically got the juices flowing.
Speaker 2: And again, to further my own point, they played this
Speaker 2: game on December the fifth, that was after Thanksgiving. We
Speaker 2: had cases starting to spike again, just so much uncertainty
Speaker 2: about what the future, what the immediate future of the sport,
Speaker 2: of the country, of just life in general health. This
Speaker 2: game came at a really good time for us as
Speaker 2: sports fans, and I will forever be grateful. You know,
Speaker 2: sometimes I get a little too deep for my own good.
Speaker 2: I'm really grateful that we had this experience to sports fans,
Speaker 2: because I felt we really needed it at the start
Speaker 2: of December.
Speaker 1: The nice thing about these five games, and it's I think,
Speaker 1: is it only true of the Indiana game, where there
Speaker 1: was only one walk off offensive winning play in these five, Right,
Speaker 1: it's Florida Yeah missing the field goal, it's BYU being
Speaker 1: tackled short one yard one, Texas getting that stop, it's
Speaker 1: Oregon State getting that stop after taking the lead lates
Speaker 1: and Oregon not being able to finish. And usually that's
Speaker 1: always kind of a letdown, Right. You want the game
Speaker 1: to be decided by the team who has the ball
Speaker 1: last in a positive way. You want to see that
Speaker 1: team get that get in the end zone with no
Speaker 1: time left, or kick the ball through the uprights with
Speaker 1: no time left. There is something that's inherently romantic about that.
Speaker 1: But even watching these games back, that didn't really matter
Speaker 1: all that much to me. And the Penn State Indiana
Speaker 1: game was clearly the worst full game to watch, and
Speaker 1: that was the only one that got decided offensively with
Speaker 1: a game winning play. So fascinating. Rewatch on all of
Speaker 1: these games, and I had remembered a lot of parts,
Speaker 1: but also had forgotten a lot of the context. All Right, well, Dan,
Speaker 1: I think that's it.
Speaker 2: In looking back at these games, at these five games,
Speaker 2: for me, my favorite was clearly Coastal in BYU. Okay,
Speaker 2: do you have another one that was your favorite instead?
Speaker 2: Probably LSU Florida LSU Floor.
Speaker 1: That was a strange one too, wasn't it. It was?
Speaker 1: It was so strange, but just from a narrative perspective
Speaker 1: of Florida not having Kyle Pitts and LSU being down
Speaker 1: the players they were down and having the season that
Speaker 1: they were having and going on the road, and just
Speaker 1: I mean, there was no way Kade York could even
Speaker 1: fully make out where the uprights were from his vantage point.
Speaker 1: He's just like, I got to kick it into the
Speaker 1: abyss and hope for the best. That to me, that
Speaker 1: was like my Steffan game. This game has everything so
Speaker 1: that that is that is one of the last things.
Speaker 1: And then the Marco Wilson element as well, throwing the shoe.
Speaker 1: So in terms of strange and upset and it's still
Speaker 1: difficult to say upset with the defending champ, but it
Speaker 1: works in this case. So that's my pick for the
Speaker 1: craziest one.
Speaker 2: Right in sliverladgmail dot com let us know your thoughts.
Speaker 2: Also check out for Ballers dot com. That is our Patreon.
Speaker 2: That's where you can find our off topic show. It's
Speaker 2: going to drop on Friday morning talking about personal tech.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm a bit of a geeked in as
Speaker 2: am I.
Speaker 1: Before we go, can you drop that quivering, quenching I
Speaker 1: don't know, quilting, drum and fives? Who could forget about
Speaker 1: the Patriot League spring season? Dan, Yeah, buddy, talk about
Speaker 1: your Fordham Rams on the road at fitt and Field
Speaker 1: and Wooster Mass squaring off against the Crosssaders. Dan, who
Speaker 1: you got? Woo? I mean Fordham Obviously I no longer
Speaker 1: live in New York, but I do recognize New York's
Speaker 1: one true team, Fordham Rams. Of course, of course I
Speaker 1: got assted gotta gotta go home team in these uncertain times, Dane,
Speaker 1: I feel like everybody there's so much money going to
Speaker 1: the Crossaders because of that win last week against who
Speaker 1: did they play? Uh Lehigh Lee High that's right, Lehigh.
Speaker 1: We're gonna look back on that lee High wind like
Speaker 1: of course, everybody beats the Mountain Hawks. Speaking of the
Speaker 1: devil Lehigh Mountain Hawks on the road at Colgate, Hello,
Speaker 1: old friend at Andy Kerr Stadium up there in Hamilton,
Speaker 1: New York. Dan, we go way back to Beaton's. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we go way back with Colgate, traveled all the way
Speaker 1: out to North Dakota State to watch them lose handily
Speaker 1: to the Bison. But I gotta go Mountain Hawks here.
Speaker 1: You know where I stand. Lehi lost demonstrably right twenty
Speaker 1: to three. They looked very bad. Still without a touchdown
Speaker 1: this spring. I'm going to go Gators here, ty. I
Speaker 1: feel pretty pretty good about the boys in Maroon. They're
Speaker 1: both probably both yea, they're probably both maroon, the boys
Speaker 1: in Hamilton, And finally your Lafayette Leopards on the River
Speaker 1: by eight and a half. By the way, can I
Speaker 1: get a line on that game? Really? Yeah? According to
Speaker 1: Caesar's hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on,
Speaker 1: hold on, hold on hold Coldgate Faper by eight and
Speaker 1: a half. What was the other game you wanted to
Speaker 1: know the line on? Well, I'm game. I'll take the
Speaker 1: line in any of these games. Fordham at holy Cross,
Speaker 1: Fordam at holy Cross is uhh? No line for this one.
Speaker 1: It's on ESPN plus, it's gonna be forty five degrees.
Speaker 1: But I'm not seeing a line. Caesars had a line
Speaker 1: on the other one, not this one. Sorry. Okay. Finally,
Speaker 1: your Lafayette Leopards on the road at Buckdal Buckdell is
Speaker 1: a seven and a half point home dog, That's what
Speaker 1: I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Playing at Christy Mathewson Memorial Stadium up there in Louisbourg, Dan,
Speaker 2: uh are you taking the points here?
Speaker 1: What are you doing? Everybody knows the LEPs travel. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I am giving those points. Double digit win for the Laps, easy, easy,
Speaker 1: Come on? Do you not believe?
Speaker 2: I don't believe, and I'm inclined to take points in
Speaker 2: all of these games.
Speaker 1: I feel like that there are actually a lot of
Speaker 1: college football games. They beat the Gators by two touchdowns, right, yes,
Speaker 1: Lafayette did. They'd be their coming off a win just
Speaker 1: the other day, and twenty nineteen over Lehigh at Lehigh.
Speaker 1: The energy's there, Ty, you know this, I know this, Lafayette.
Speaker 2: How on God's Green Earth is Vegas going to set
Speaker 2: a line on any of these games.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I feel like if you know
Speaker 1: bat League football, there's money to be made. I feel
Speaker 1: like you should just take points. Okay, just take the points.
Speaker 2: Like every game.
Speaker 1: Over under at forty two points. So Vegas has done
Speaker 1: their homework and they're anticipating something like a twenty four
Speaker 1: to seventeen type matchup here.
Speaker 2: I'm locking it in right now, where's hold on? I'm
Speaker 2: looking this up you know where I still going to
Speaker 2: bet the game. I'm going to bet the game. Why
Speaker 2: not bet it? There's nothing else to bet other than
Speaker 2: all the college basketball action, in which case I will
Speaker 2: also be taking the points because.
Speaker 1: Bunell has not played a game in fifteen months. Oh
Speaker 1: really yeah, My last game they played was a seventeen
Speaker 1: point loss to Ford. Them and there's still only a
Speaker 1: seven and a half point home dog right whereas Lafayette
Speaker 1: played a game. The cobwebs are off the laps.
Speaker 2: I'm going I'm going ten bucks on Buck plus the points.
Speaker 1: Why not? Okay, you can if you feel really good
Speaker 1: about Buck now money lines at plus two thirty? No, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: out right, come on, maybe crazy believe, let's not go
Speaker 1: crazy here. Okay, all right, well, look enjoy the NCAA tournament.
Speaker 1: We will be talking again tomorrow about uh, do we
Speaker 1: have a bracketick? Should we launch a bracket? Do you
Speaker 1: want to? Is it too late? No? I don't think
Speaker 1: it's too late. Yeah, let's launch a bracket. The game
Speaker 1: start like calling family members.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there will be a bracket game to search for
Speaker 2: the solid verbal out on ESPN dot com.
Speaker 1: Yes, we'll launch it there. We had a lot of
Speaker 1: people last year we did this, so yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 2: All right, I'll make picks, you'll make picks. Will be
Speaker 2: a grand all time done. I will talk to you tomorrow, Daniel.
Speaker 2: We'll talk about personal tech all right, forbolloer dot com
Speaker 2: for that, go there, Dan Rubinstein, for myself, tie Held
Speaker 2: a brand. Enjoy the rest of your evening.
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you soon. Stay solid peace,