WEBVTT - Ep. 680: Blood Trails - A Turkey Woods Cold Case 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:09.600 In two thousand three, forty four year old David Stack 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:13.000 had everything a guy could want. A loving family, a 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:17.360 successful construction business, and his own piece of wilderness, a 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:22.000 sprawling one hundred ninety acres in Virginia's Shenandoah Valley, a 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.239 place where he could disappear into the woods, hunt turkeys 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:29.080 and deer, or just relax and enjoy the sounds of 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:34.320 cicadas and cardinals. It was a place he should have 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:46.560 been safe. David, his son Brian, and his brother Jeff 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:49.879 were excited to hunt turkeys on opening day, April twelfth. 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:53.800 They'd scouted the night before they knew where the birds 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:56.600 would be, and at five thirty a m. They split up, 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:04.400 each heading to their own pre plant spots. Then the gunshot. 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.680 Jeff heard it first, too early, too close, something about 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:12.000 it didn't feel right. 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:15.720 It was still dark. 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:18.720 I don't think it was legal shooting. 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:21.920 And I heard a gun shot, and as dust Zacky tell, 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:25.760 it came from over there where Dave was. And I 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:28.240 said to myself, Damn, Dave, I don't think that was 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:28.960 a legal shot. 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:32.480 Brian heard shots too, but the wind was up, the 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:35.600 sound bounced around the hills and trees. He couldn't be 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.840 sure where it had come from, so he shook it off. 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:47.600 I dozed off and woke up to birds of my decoys. 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:50.120 I can hear him out there spitting and drummond. And 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:53.080 that was actually my first gobbler, you know. I shot 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:54.800 the bird that morning. 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:55.840 I think it was eight. 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:59.200 Fifty nine o'clock somewhere in there, and you know, I 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:01.680 was excited, fired up, and you know, I got my 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:04.920 stuff together and was heading back to the cabin. I 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:05.760 wanted to show it all. 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:12.799 But David never came back. No texts, no radio calls, nothing. 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:18.359 By noon, concern turned to unease. By four pm, unease 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:20.760 became fear. 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.000 Eventually started, you know, just whistling and call in, trying 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:29.040 to you know, get some kind of response. And this 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.480 went on until she probably, you know, four o'clock, and 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:34.880 then we really started getting worried. It turned from you know, 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:36.280 worried to panic. 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:38.959 They searched the woods, called his name. 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:40.760 Nothing. 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:46.840 By nightfall, the search intensified, neighbors, state troopers, a helicopter 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:55.640 circling overhead, but still no sign of David. Then early 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:58.080 the next morning they found him. 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:03.079 I saw the Turkey decoys mars. I thought it was turkey, 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:05.400 but they were decoys. And then there was turkeys in 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:09.560 the trees right above them that we we spooked or 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.399 jumped or whatever you want to call, and they flew 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:13.160 out of the trees. 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:17.919 That's about the time I then saw Day laying on 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:18.480 his back. 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.239 I did I did not get of course, I was 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:27.840 very emotional, and uh, anyway, I checked. 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:31.120 I think I checked the pulse, but. 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:32.480 It was obvious she was dead. 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:41.560 And the way his body was found, something was off. 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.280 Kenny Graff, a close friend of David's, was there when 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:47.720 they pulled his body from the woods after the crime 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:50.560 scene had been processed. He'd been in law enforcement for 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:54.360 nearly two decades. He knew what an accident looked like 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:56.880 and this was not that. 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:02.120 And we go to pick him up and they get 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.280 blood on my hands. We rolled him over to one 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:05.880 side and you just got to pullet. A bullet hole 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:09.360 in his back. So that's when they say something's not right. 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:11.400 This isn't an accidental death. 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:18.839 A bullet hole in his back, no sign of a struggle, 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:22.240 his gun untouched, his sandwich still in his vest. 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:25.640 We get him out, and I mean, I'm just as 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:27.719 a human being, I'm just struggling. I mean, I am 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:32.000 fucking struggling. It's it's a bitch caring your best friend out, 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:33.960 a dead body out of the woods, you know what 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:37.040 I mean. It's just no fun at all. 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:46.440 But what's the out the most? The face mask pulled 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:50.520 up and a single cigarette butt lying next to him. 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:53.680 If you're familiar with turkey out, which I'm sure you are, 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:55.640 you know you wear the full face mask and this 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:58.080 and that for the spring God, where to keep the 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:03.000 reflection off your face and stuff? Dave's was pulled all 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:04.159 the way back over top of. 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:08.240 His head, as if someone had pulled it up to 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:13.080 see his face. For twenty years, no one has answered 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:18.280 the one question that matters most. Who pulled that trigger? 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:22.240 The Virginia Department of Wildlife Resources says the case is 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.720 still open, but in all these years, no suspects have 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:29.080 been named, no grand jury has been convened, no arrests 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:34.279 have been made. Kenny, Jeff and Bryan believed the shooter 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:36.120 knew exactly. 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:36.800 What they had done. 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:43.960 They stood over David, looked at him, and walked away. 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:50.200 But why was it a mistake, a moment of panic, 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:55.560 or was it something worse? I'm Jordan Sillers and this 0:05:56.279 --> 0:06:00.000 is Blood Trails, a Turkey Woods cold case. 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:08.280 Part one. 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:13.600 The crime scene. Jeff, Brian, and Kenny all saw the 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:18.720 crime scene, but their descriptions don't always match up. Here's Kenny. 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:21.840 You can see where Dave cleared out a little spot 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.120 to sit by a tree. He had a decoy set up, 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:29.800 his gun was leaning against the tree, and he's just 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:32.320 laying on his back. And I noticed it was a 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:36.599 cigarette butt put out right there. Now, Dave did smoke 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:39.080 once in a while, and he had part of a 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:42.719 pack in his backpack with this brand not on the ground. 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:44.800 Was a different brand than what they smoked. 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:48.760 Kenny was a detective for nineteen years with the Metropolitan 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:52.360 Washington Airport's Authority. He told me he's worked drug and 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:55.880 homicide cases with other federal agencies, so he's the kind 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:57.720 of guy who might notice the brand name of a 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:01.560 cigarette butt lying on the ground. Brian and Jeff don't 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:05.039 remember anything about a cigarette butt. Brian remembers the shotgun 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.360 leaning against the tree, and they both agree that someone 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:10.320 had walked up to the body. 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:11.600 Here's Brian. 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:16.440 He was laying away from the tree somewhat. His face 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:20.120 mask was pulled down his glasses were pushed up, his 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:25.160 sandwich was still in his vest. The decoys were only 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:30.920 like like fifteen yards sixteen yards from him, which is unusual. 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:33.680 So I don't think that was his location. I don't 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:35.040 know if that's where he was setting up or what, 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:38.200 but it definitely seemed unusual with it how close he 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:40.280 was to the decoys with a gun sitting against the 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:46.320 tree there, and you know how his face mask was 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:47.640 pulled down and glasses were up. 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:53.360 Those glasses are more important than they might sound. David's wife, Tammy, 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.160 didn't see the crime scene herself, but her knowledge of 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:59.120 her husband gave her an important insight into what those 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:00.480 glasses might indicate. 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:06.440 They said his glasses were up like he pushed his 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:09.480 classes up on top of his head. And he would 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:13.160 never ever ever do that. He would take him off 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:14.880 and hang him from a shirt or take him off 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.840 in some some place. He couldn't stand having them up 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:23.640 on his head. I just I just have this gut 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:26.520 feeling that whoever did it knows that they did it. 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.120 I reached out to the Virginia Department of Wildlife Resources 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:34.560 to confirm some of these details, but they refused, citing 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:39.160 the ongoing investigation. Fortunately for US, the agency hasn't always 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:43.160 been so tight lipped. The incident gained tons of local 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:45.280 media attention after it happened, and one of the best 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.560 reports came in a May third edition of The Roanoak Times. 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:53.080 Here's what the Virginia DWR, then called the Virginia Department 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:56.040 of Game and Inland Fisheries, told reporters in the weeks 0:08:56.200 --> 0:09:00.160 following the murder. The shooting occurred on a property near 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:04.200 the Saalville Hill section of Rockbridge County, between South Buffalo 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:09.079 Road and Bluegrass Trail. David was likely leaning against a 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:13.000 tree when he got shot. The bullet entered his body 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:16.560 from behind, cut his aorta, and lodged in his heart. 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:20.800 The terrain and angle at which the bullet struck David 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.800 indicate that the shooter fired at close range and would 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:28.560 have been able to tell what he'd hit. The hill 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:30.800 and brush in the area would have kept the bullet 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.440 from traveling very far. Kenny told me that the bullet 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.640 itself came from a twenty two caliber center fire cartridge, 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:40.959 such as a two two three Remington, two twenty two 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:46.360 Remington or twenty two two fifty. I wasn't able to 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:50.040 find any contemporaneous media reports with this information, and the 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.280 DWR refused to name the kind of bullet that killed David, 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.480 but I did speak with one of the neighbors, a 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:59.400 man named James Lava, who still owns one of the 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:03.000 adjacent par He declined to be recorded for this podcast, 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:05.400 but he told me he was also turkey hunting the 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:08.600 morning David was killed. Game Wardens knocked on his door 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:10.559 in the weeks after the incident and asked if he 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.480 owned any rifles chambered in a center fire twenty two 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:14.880 caliber cartridge. 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:16.000 He did. 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:19.320 In fact, he said he hunts turkeys during the fall 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:22.199 season with the rifle chambered in twenty two hornet, but 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:24.199 he was hunting with a shotgun on the morning of 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:28.640 the incident. Game Wardens apparently believed his story, because, according 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.520 to Lava, they sent his rifle to Richmond for ballistics 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:35.040 testing and returned it about a month later. Whatever they 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.960 found it either didn't point to Lava or was inconclusive, 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.920 but the suggests at least at the time, investigators believed 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:45.840 David was killed with a Centerfire twenty two Many states 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.600 do not allow turkey hunters to use rifles, but Virginia 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:49.760 is not one of them. 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:50.920 To this day. 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:53.559 The only restriction they put on a turkey hunter's gun 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:56.320 is that during the spring season they cannot use shot 0:10:56.440 --> 0:11:00.840 larger than number two. Kenny, Jeff, and Ran all agree 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:05.760 that the shooting was most likely an accident. They don't 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.760 recall David having any ongoing conflicts with anyone or any 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:11.520 of the neighbors being upset about the recent purchase of 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:13.680 the land. Here's Brian. 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.160 My haunt ya is it's either what's a young haunor 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:21.760 inexperience or older haunter that had poor vision. I don't 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:24.319 think it's anything in malice done in on purpose, but 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:25.199 I don't. 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:41.560 Know Part two the neighbors. Cases like this are difficult 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:45.360 to investigate. There are no witnesses, and what physical evidence 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:48.640 exists is hard to find in the leaves and dirt. 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:53.040 But if you're like me, your first thought goes to 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:56.880 the neighbors. It's easy to imagine a neighboring property owner 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:01.480 wanders onto the stacks land, sees what he thinks is 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:04.600 a turkey in the dimness of the morning, and pulls 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:09.079 the trigger. That's where Kenny's mind went to, even before 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.240 his friend's body had been found. While the rest of 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.240 the Stack family was still searching the woods. He paid 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:17.359 a visit to the neighbors. 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:21.800 At daylight the next morning, which was the thirteenth, April thirteenth. 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.240 I'm thinking, well, maybe the neighbors know something. 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.120 Kenny told me the names of the people who lived there, 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.679 but we're going to bleep them out. None of them 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:34.800 still live on those properties as far as I've been 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:37.480 able to tell, and the Virginia d WR has never 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:41.240 named an official suspect. You'll see why that's relevant here 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:44.640 in a minute. The first house Kenny visited belonged to 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:46.680 someone we'll call Johnson. 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:50.240 We had met him the previous fall because he came 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:53.680 over he was looked for his dog, and we talked 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:57.360 to him a little bit. He says, I don't I 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:01.760 don't allow not. I go to his house, played down 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:03.839 again who I was, and I was looking for David. 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:08.640 I wonder if he heard seeing anything. He said no, 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.280 And I remember thinking, when I was standing in his house, 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.360 he got all his turkey mounts, a deer mounts, and 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:19.920 I'm thinking, this guy told me he didn't hunt, so huh. 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:23.800 I didn't say anything about it then, but he pulls 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.720 out a map, and this could be coincidence. Don't get 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.800 me wrong, this could be coincidence. But he pulls out 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.000 a map and he points at the map and he says, 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.680 there's the property line where it is property George Dave's property. 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:40.120 He says, you should look great in this area here, 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:41.600 You should look great in this area here. 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:47.079 Remember Kenny spoke to Johnson before they'd found David's body. 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:51.200 So I asked, Kenny, what you're thinking was the spot? 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:54.760 He pointed to the same spot they eventually found David. 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:58.120 It was within feet, within feet. 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:03.800 Kenny admits that this could be explained in a non 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.720 nefarious way. Johnson wouldn't be the first hunter to hide 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:09.880 the fact that he's a hunter, and it doesn't make 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.160 much sense to lead investigators to the person you just 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:19.880 murdered the day before. Still, it's weird, but Kenny's interactions 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.000 with the neighbors got even stranger. Kenny stopped by another 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.680 house where an elderly man told him that while he 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.240 doesn't hunt, one of his friends had been hunting on 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:32.320 the morning David was killed. We'll call this friend Smith. 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.120 Smith lived down the road. So Kenny knocked on the door, 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:40.520 but nobody answered. Kenny left a message on Smith's answering machine, 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.240 using the phone number the elderly neighbor had given him. 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:47.400 Kenny went back to the Stacks cabin and the phone rang. 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:50.600 The woman on the line claimed to be Smith's wife. 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:56.080 She says, uh, doesn't know anything. Did see anything? 0:14:57.720 --> 0:14:59.000 Did Aunt? 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:04.160 And I said, told me? He told me his truck 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.520 was parked at his house. Oh yeah, Well, he hunted 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:11.040 opposite side of the road. And I'm thinking to myself, 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.320 how do you know what side of the road David 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:14.640 was on? 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:15.480 You know what I mean? 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:17.400 How do you know what's side of the road I'm 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:17.920 talking about. 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:20.480 Kenny didn't think too much about it at the time, 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:24.960 and David's body was found not long after, But that's 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.920 not the last he heard of Smith. A year or 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:32.720 two after David's death, Jeff was walking the property and 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:38.520 he found something, something very out of place in the woods. 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:41.240 I found the pillow bumble was. 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:44.360 Same on it. 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.200 It was right on the property line. It was a 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:52.280 prescription for one of you know, one of these comment 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:54.240 kind of anti depressant types. 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:55.400 It was a feat. 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:58.120 Jeff said. The place he found the bottle near the 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.720 property line would have been less than a ten minute 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:04.640 walk from where they found David's body. He sent the 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:06.840 bottle to the lead investigator on the case at the time, 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.920 but never heard anything more. The investigator has since passed away, 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.960 and Kenny says they haven't heard anything from the DWR 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:18.120 for years. The shooter could have been a neighbor, but 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:20.960 it also could have been someone who didn't live in 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.520 the area. That would make the culprit even more difficult 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:26.880 to find, and it would help explain how this case 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:31.120 has gone unsolved. Neither Jeff Kenny or Brian ever mentioned 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:34.800 having a problem with trespassers, but Kenny did mention one 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:39.880 alternative theory. One of the original DWR investigators on this case, 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:42.720 a guy named Stephen Pike, knew a producer on the 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:47.920 television show America's Most Wanted. He wanted to give this 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:50.800 case as much exposure as possible, so he asked the 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.680 producer for a favor. It wasn't the kind of story 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:57.160 the program usually covered, but they decided to do it anyway. 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:01.040 The segment aired on November one, two thousand and three, 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:07.119 in episode seven thirty seven of the show. Younger listeners 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:09.680 might not remember, but America's Most Wanted was a hit 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.320 show back in the day at the time of its 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:15.879 cancelation by the Fox Television Network in June twenty eleven. 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:18.800 Its twenty four season run made it the longest running 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:22.080 program in the network's history, and each episode was watched 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:26.480 by thousands. The point is including David's story on amw 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.200 as its fans call it would have exposed the case 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.480 to a huge audience. The segment on David ended with 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.520 an appeal to that audience for tips. We don't know 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.639 exactly what kind of information came in, but Kenny claims 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:42.240 that two tips came in from people in Rockbridge County, 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.600 one of which pointed back to Johnson. 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:51.639 The second tip stays, you should talk to he has 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:55.280 a hunting camp and he had hunters there that morning 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:56.439 and they left that morning. 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.800 Kenny claims that Johnson was running an illegal hunting camp. 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.800 An investigator spoke with several of the people who had 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:03.840 hunted that morning. 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:06.680 They talked to a couple of people that were there 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:11.560 that morning but had left around ten o'clock. And I'm 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.959 thinking to myself, it's opening day of Spring Gobbers season. 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:19.400 Why do you leave at ten am and go home? 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.560 It's a good question. David may have been killed not 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.280 by a neighbor, but by someone who didn't live in 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:30.399 the area. That person could have been hunting legally, or 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.200 it could have been a poacher. In either case, the 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:36.240 randomness of that scenario could make it even more likely 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:53.120 that David's killer is never found. Part three The DWR 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.680 the Virginia Department of Wildlife Resources says this case is 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:03.239 still considered active. Special agents are currently assigned, and they 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:06.720 said in an email of that quote, recent investigative measures 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:12.080 and evidence examinations have been explored. They've digitized the case files, 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:15.280 and they're collaborating with Virginia State Police to have the 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:21.120 case added to the state cold case database. So someone 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:24.560 is working on it. How much they're working on it 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.760 is a different question. Kenny says he hasn't heard from 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:32.040 the agency in the last four or five years. In 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.400 the meantime, his frustration has only increased. 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:39.720 We had a very hard time for years just getting 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:43.080 them to communicate with us, to talk to us. I 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:45.359 don't want to say these guys screwed up, but somebody 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:49.040 screwed up, and it's a shame, it really is. Haven't 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.760 been a law enforcement officer myself, for twenty five years. 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:55.520 I don't understand to this day why this case wasn't 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:56.879 solved within a few days. 0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:57.720 I really don't. 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:01.840 Kenny believes the agency failed to collect all the evidence 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:05.320 at the scene, and they failed to investigate the neighbors 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:11.040 closely enough, specifically Johnson and Smith. Remember that cigarette butt 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:13.560 I mentioned at the beginning of the episode, the one that, 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.480 according to Kenny, was a different brand than the one 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:17.280 David smoked. 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:21.280 Believe it or not, they didn't collect it. They police 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:24.920 did not collect it. I was assumed they collected it. 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:28.800 And then a few months later I talked to I 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:30.920 was talking to DNR, and I said, well, what about 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:32.840 cigarette button? I'd like, what cigarette butt. 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:36.600 It's possible Kenny was mistaken and that the cigarette butt 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:41.160 was actually David's. It's also possible whoever Kenny asked didn't 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:45.760 know or was lying, or it's possible Kenny just made 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:49.119 the whole thing up. But whatever the truth is, the 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:55.520 DWR isn't saying. I filed a public records request asking 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:59.159 for documents related to this case. The agency responded and 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:01.800 said that while they have one d ten pages of files, 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:04.800 they can't release any because they're part of an ongoing 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:10.880 criminal investigation fair enough. Then, on June seventh, twenty twenty four, 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:13.920 I sent an email to the agency's public information department 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:16.560 and asked to interview the agent in charge of the case. 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:21.440 The agency initially agreed to an interview, but wanted to 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.960 see and approve any questions prior to the interview being recorded, 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:28.160 so I sent a list of questions on July third, 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:30.920 twenty twenty four, asking about everything you've heard in this 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:36.040 episode cigarette butt, pillbottle, Johnson, and Smith. I even asked 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:38.359 for the agency to confirm a few of the details 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:41.000 that they had shared with the media in two thousand 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:44.040 and three, things like how far away the shooter was 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:48.360 and whether he likely knew what he'd done. On November fifteenth, 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:52.280 twenty twenty four, which was for those counting over four 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:56.000 months after I'd sent the list of questions, the DWR 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:58.560 backed out of the phone interview they'd previously agreed to. 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:04.040 Why well, here's what they said, Out of an abundance 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.080 of caution to protect the integrity of the investigation, the 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:10.800 department will not be available for any in person interviews 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:15.840 or discussions. Instead, they responded to my list of questions 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:19.000 with typed answers, but they refused to share any details 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:23.040 of the case beyond when and where it happened, they said, 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:28.119 quoting again DWR Conservation police officers spent a considerable amount 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:30.840 of time and effort to identify the person responsible for 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:33.920 mister Stack's death and followed all leads that were provided 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:39.040 and developed through the course of the investigation. Specifics about 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:42.200 their investigation are not available due to this being an 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:46.960 open investigation. The only new piece of information they offered 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:51.119 was about whether they ever identified a suspect, they said, quote, 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:56.600 several persons of interest have been identified. These persons have 0:22:56.720 --> 0:23:02.080 been interviewed and declined a polygraph. Whoever those people were, 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:06.119 the agency didn't gather enough information to make an arrest. 0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:19.840 Part four. An expert's opinion. I don't know about you, 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:22.960 but I have more questions than answers about this case. 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:26.680 I frankly don't understand why the Virginia d w R 0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:31.040 hasn't been more helpful. I wonder how investigators knew what 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:33.879 kind of bullet killed David, and I wonder whether they 0:23:34.040 --> 0:23:37.879 used every investigative technique at their disposal to help answer 0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:40.200 some of these questions. I call up my buddy and 0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:44.040 meat Eater's own Brent Reeves. You know Brent as the 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:47.040 host of This Country Life, where he dispenses down home 0:23:47.119 --> 0:23:50.600 wisdom in a deep and melodious baritone. But Brent wasn't 0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:55.640 always a world famous podcast host. In a previous life, 0:23:55.680 --> 0:23:58.200 he served for thirty two years as a law enforcement 0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:02.760 agent in Arkansas. He's investigated homicide cases himself, so I 0:24:02.840 --> 0:24:05.040 knew he'd be the perfect person to help us break 0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:16.280 down this case. Brent, thanks for being here. 0:24:16.760 --> 0:24:18.640 Yeah, man, thank you for inviting me only here. 0:24:19.160 --> 0:24:21.280 So I know that you were in law enforcement for 0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:24.240 a long time, but could you fill in some of 0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:26.879 those details. What agencies did you work for and what 0:24:27.000 --> 0:24:29.320