Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda Land Audio
Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. It's amazing though as
Speaker 1: a mother, I feel like when I'm locked in those
Speaker 1: power struggle moments where I'm like, oh my god, how
Speaker 1: are you capable of arguing like an attorney and you're
Speaker 1: only a child? And I can simultaneously me in like
Speaker 1: total frustration, but there's this tiny little voice that's like,
Speaker 1: You're gonna be okay, kid. Yeah. Yeah. I feel the
Speaker 1: same way, like, oh my god, this is going to
Speaker 1: make an exceptional adult. Hi, everybody, Welcome back to Katie's Crib.
Speaker 1: My very, very good friend is on the podcast today.
Speaker 1: I love her. We are Shonda Land family. You know her,
Speaker 1: you love her as Dr Amelia Shephard on Gray's Anatomy.
Speaker 1: She is Katarinas Scorsone. She and I talk about so
Speaker 1: much stuff, raising three children in a pandemic. She's got
Speaker 1: three girls. Katerina was a doula. Did you know that
Speaker 1: she like trained as a dula. Her daughter Pippa has
Speaker 1: Down syndrome, and we talk a lot about what that's
Speaker 1: like in her life, Teachable moments and engaging in conversations
Speaker 1: about disability. We talked about equity versus equality. We talk
Speaker 1: about life on set. Guys, this is a great episode.
Speaker 1: We talk about a lot of different stuff. And if
Speaker 1: you don't know who Katarina Scorsone is, that's crazy. But
Speaker 1: if you don't, here's a little bit more about her.
Speaker 1: Before she was Dr Amilia Shepherd on Gray's Anatomy. She
Speaker 1: was Dr Emilias Shepherd on Private Practice. She's also Dr
Speaker 1: Amilias Shepherd on Station nineteen. What Watch on the Land?
Speaker 1: So many shows, so many shows, so awesome. Offscreen, Katerina's
Speaker 1: passion and purpose has been centered on her family, and
Speaker 1: like I mentioned, it includes her four year old daughter, Pippa,
Speaker 1: who was born with Down syndrome, and in recent years
Speaker 1: she's been using her platform to promote greater understanding and
Speaker 1: awareness and an effort to end stigmas around Down syndrome
Speaker 1: and other disabilities. Katerina, thank you for coming onto Katie's crib.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to see you. So great. I am
Speaker 1: so happy to see you. I have missed you. Um
Speaker 1: it was made very clear by Seana Riymes that Grayson
Speaker 1: Natomy and Scandal did not exist in the same world. Um,
Speaker 1: So I'm very grateful that, in the name of motherhood,
Speaker 1: we are currently creating our own crossover moment. We are,
Speaker 1: we are. But you were on we met on private practice.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was on you. Oh please? I was fine.
Speaker 1: But turns out it's a lesson never learned. I played
Speaker 1: a mother. It was my first ever working job in
Speaker 1: shaan Alyn. I played a mom who left her baby
Speaker 1: in the backseat of her car because she was too tired,
Speaker 1: and the baby asphyxiated and fried, and it was terrible
Speaker 1: that I that I think I should not be less
Speaker 1: That was the most horrifying of all The writer of
Speaker 1: that episode, I think someone told me, like that actually
Speaker 1: happens to like ten babies a year. Like the terrible thing.
Speaker 1: They have apparently technology that you put in your car
Speaker 1: seat that can tell if like the weight hasn't lifted
Speaker 1: out of the car seat, and if it hasn't been
Speaker 1: when you leave, like an alarm goes off or something.
Speaker 1: Because it's a big enough issue that they were able
Speaker 1: to find like investors for that project because there's demand.
Speaker 1: That's horrifying, but it goes to show you, like how
Speaker 1: tired or in your routine you're in as a mom,
Speaker 1: and like when you're pushed to the limits and you
Speaker 1: just you forget their baby in the car um First
Speaker 1: and foremost from that lovely topic, how are you doing?
Speaker 1: You are raising any year old, a four year old,
Speaker 1: and a one year old the majority of the pandemic,
Speaker 1: I only had one. How's the year been? Well, I
Speaker 1: don't oh, it's been it's been crazy, but it's been
Speaker 1: kind of beautiful. It's been kind of beautiful to have
Speaker 1: all of the like crops of your existence just like
Speaker 1: totally stripped from you and you have to kind of
Speaker 1: like make it work. Were you home schooling the eight
Speaker 1: year old? Yes, like with math and reading and stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, let's be clear, I was facilitating her on zoom. Also,
Speaker 1: my sister moved in with me, and so I had help.
Speaker 1: And I want to be crystal clear about that. Yes,
Speaker 1: I have three children, but no one can do this
Speaker 1: on their own. And so for all of the people
Speaker 1: who are literally completely isolated, I mean, yeah, there's nothing
Speaker 1: to even say about that, because I have a village also,
Speaker 1: and I don't even understand. I literally don't understand, Like
Speaker 1: I just had to bring on an addish an old
Speaker 1: babysitter because I'm shooting at the same time that my
Speaker 1: husband's shooting and doing his pretzel business, and like we
Speaker 1: couldn't handle it all, and it was totally insane. And
Speaker 1: with multiple children in Zoom school, you can't buy locate.
Speaker 1: You have to have like one kid on one computer
Speaker 1: and then another kid. I mean with Hippa, she has
Speaker 1: a lot of therapy so that she does, and so
Speaker 1: she's on another computer doing like occupational therapy and you
Speaker 1: you literally cannot do it all totally. There was no
Speaker 1: pretending anymore that we could be these like self sustaining,
Speaker 1: isolate super moms. I've got it all going on. No
Speaker 1: one sees behind closed doors, but you know, like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it was a complete shit show. It was actually show.
Speaker 1: But that gave us all permission to be messy and
Speaker 1: permission to go, oh, I need community. I can't do this,
Speaker 1: and it's unreasonable for anyone to expect me to do this.
Speaker 1: This is not like a you know, like a moral failing.
Speaker 1: This is not laziness. This is not like, oh, I
Speaker 1: should have had better executive function and plan my time.
Speaker 1: This is like no effing way. Sorry, I don't know
Speaker 1: if I'm allowed to swear on that you Oh my god,
Speaker 1: welcome to my Yes, you're fine, you want Yeah, you
Speaker 1: come from a big family, So was that something you
Speaker 1: knew you wanted? I did want three. And then there
Speaker 1: was a while where I thought maybe maybe I could
Speaker 1: only handle to um. And then I kind of got
Speaker 1: to a place where I think, again, this kind of
Speaker 1: recurring theme that's coming up over and over again is community.
Speaker 1: I've seen in my life how family has been so
Speaker 1: important to me, thriving through challenging circumstances and just having
Speaker 1: like that shared history with people and people who have
Speaker 1: kind of known you and seen you grow and evolve
Speaker 1: over many years, and especially now, I think our our
Speaker 1: society is so kind of isolated and fractured pandemic or
Speaker 1: no pandemic, and so actually having like more community seemed
Speaker 1: appealing to me for myself, but also for the girls
Speaker 1: um that they would have teammates in life, and even
Speaker 1: if they didn't get along, you know, they would still
Speaker 1: be kind of working out those muscles and figuring out
Speaker 1: how to compromise and how to be patient. That's a
Speaker 1: great way to think about it, actually, because I'm really
Speaker 1: close with I have one sibling, I have one brother,
Speaker 1: and we're really really close and I've always just like
Speaker 1: assumed that if I gave my son a sibling that
Speaker 1: they would be really close, And I had to look
Speaker 1: at it and be like, well, that's not a guarantee.
Speaker 1: It's not a guarantee they're gonna like each other. It's
Speaker 1: not a guarantee they're going to get along or there
Speaker 1: that they will their whole lives. But even if they don't,
Speaker 1: You're right, it still is learning lessons. They're working out
Speaker 1: whatever they're here to work out, right, I mean what
Speaker 1: I mean, look at our workplace. We have to be
Speaker 1: great actors and artists, but really, let's be honest, like
Speaker 1: a huge proportion of our skill as serious television actors
Speaker 1: is about getting along with others absubolutely getting along with
Speaker 1: personalities on day and days and at five am and
Speaker 1: a trailer versus two am on a Friday night and
Speaker 1: fifteen hours in when you've been in the rain all
Speaker 1: day and you've been up with your child all night,
Speaker 1: and then you're like showing up to work and you're
Speaker 1: really fucking cranky. All of those things. A lot of
Speaker 1: it has to do with character, and yes, character building.
Speaker 1: I read that you became a trained doula before you
Speaker 1: were having your own kids. Tell me about that. What
Speaker 1: drew you to do that? UM? A few things, I
Speaker 1: mean one of them was that my sister, UM, she
Speaker 1: had a baby UM when we were pretty young, and
Speaker 1: she didn't have a partner at the time, and so
Speaker 1: I was her birth coach through that process. She's kind
Speaker 1: of always like Marcia the beat of her own drum,
Speaker 1: and she was like, cool, I'm gonna do a home birth.
Speaker 1: And I was like what. I was like, horrid vibe,
Speaker 1: you know. But then I started reading material by on
Speaker 1: my Gaskin and and learning about it, and I was like,
Speaker 1: this is kind of great. So she had a home
Speaker 1: birth and I was her you know, accompaniment through that birth,
Speaker 1: and I saw this way, yeah, yeah, I decided to
Speaker 1: be a dula. And then I had my I had
Speaker 1: three home births myself. I didn't know you had home birth.
Speaker 1: I had three home births, so I yeah, And so
Speaker 1: really went from I saw my sister, who was this
Speaker 1: kind of you know, wild young girl transition. I mean,
Speaker 1: the whole labor itself was so beautiful. We had like
Speaker 1: meditative music on, and this girl we knew, who was
Speaker 1: like a Ricky Master came over and like you put
Speaker 1: her hands on her, and it like focused her. Was
Speaker 1: it long? Was it a long labor? No? I think
Speaker 1: it was like I want to say it was seven hours,
Speaker 1: and then oh, good lord, that's a joke, right, But
Speaker 1: that was the other thing. She was in the comfort
Speaker 1: of our own home, so she was very relaxed and
Speaker 1: comfortable and um. And again I'm going to do the
Speaker 1: disclaimer here, and home birth is not for everyone. I'm
Speaker 1: happy there are hospitals for people who need hospitals to
Speaker 1: have their babies and who feel safer in a hospital
Speaker 1: or more comfortable there. The point of home birth is
Speaker 1: to give women who are candidates for it, that's right.
Speaker 1: I've heard at length from home birth du Lahs that
Speaker 1: like you actually even have to like sort of qualify
Speaker 1: in a way that you're very low risk, that you know,
Speaker 1: the pregnancy itself is very low risk, Like they're actually
Speaker 1: all these things sort of have to check off to
Speaker 1: even really entertain the idea of right, And I think
Speaker 1: people don't realize that really the main job of the
Speaker 1: midwife is to monitor you throughout your whole pregnancy and
Speaker 1: make sure everything is typical. In most cases, everything is
Speaker 1: typical because our bodies evolved for millions of years to
Speaker 1: be very good at doing this thing, which is why
Speaker 1: we have an overpopulation problem, right, right, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? We're good at it. Actually yeah, but in
Speaker 1: some cases people might have like a different kind of pelvis,
Speaker 1: and the midwife is supposed to check that out right
Speaker 1: before we get into any sort of ship show exactly.
Speaker 1: So with three pregnancies and three home birds, do you
Speaker 1: have a favorite? Are you even allowed to say that? God?
Speaker 1: I don't think I could say that, I know, right,
Speaker 1: but do you? Because I do, well, no different, I
Speaker 1: should say they're different. Mike Toddler's so hard right now,
Speaker 1: like he's such a three manager and every single thing
Speaker 1: is a negotiation. So you know, I'm just in it
Speaker 1: with him, right. He just got big trouble yesterday for
Speaker 1: hitting someone in the face with a stick, So we're
Speaker 1: not like a great place. It's amazing that as a mother,
Speaker 1: I feel like when I'm locked in those power struggle
Speaker 1: moments where I'm like, oh my god, how are you
Speaker 1: capable of arguing like an attorney and you're only a child?
Speaker 1: And I can simultaneously me in like total frustration. But
Speaker 1: there's this tiny little voice that's like you're gonna be
Speaker 1: okay kid, Yeah, yeah, I feel the same way, like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is going to make an exceptional adult.
Speaker 1: But exactly, this is hell to tell me about the
Speaker 1: labors and the pregnancies. How were they were they all different?
Speaker 1: Were they all were their similarities? Okay? So I mean
Speaker 1: I can't complain. They were pretty good. They were pretty good.
Speaker 1: I had a really only time. It's important to say
Speaker 1: these things. We have a lot of listening who are
Speaker 1: pregnant or who want to get pregnant, or or thinking
Speaker 1: about a second or third or fourth child, and I
Speaker 1: think that we also highlight a ton of not so great.
Speaker 1: So it's also really important to say when no, you
Speaker 1: know what, I had three pregnancies and they were fucking awesome. Well,
Speaker 1: and I do want to say that one of the
Speaker 1: things that I was so frustrated with um historically, even
Speaker 1: before you know Shonda Land, which is this very like
Speaker 1: woman centric woman lad situation, before that, most TV writers
Speaker 1: were dudes, right, And so the storytelling, and again it's
Speaker 1: not just storytelling on television, it's cultural storytelling, was the
Speaker 1: kind of narrative through line that was designed to terrorize
Speaker 1: women and make them fearful of themselves. Was that pregnancy
Speaker 1: and labor are this like pathology. Again, it was like
Speaker 1: doctors are in med school, they're learning about pathologies, and
Speaker 1: so if you put labor and birth into that category,
Speaker 1: you think it's an illness. It's not an illness. It's
Speaker 1: a beautiful, miraculous human function that again we evolved to
Speaker 1: do and are very powerful and good. And so they
Speaker 1: pathologize it, and the narrative is that it's this emergency,
Speaker 1: it's terrible, we have to be rescued from it. There's
Speaker 1: someone in the grocery store. They drop a jar of
Speaker 1: pickles and shatters. They start screaming, the water breaks, the
Speaker 1: rush to the hospital as though they've been in a
Speaker 1: car accident. It's just so traumatic. It's so traumatic, and
Speaker 1: then they're rescued by these like male doctors in white
Speaker 1: and thank god those men were there, because I don't
Speaker 1: know how I would have had a baby with just
Speaker 1: woman and my vagina, but you could. But you could,
Speaker 1: because that's how you do it. Yeah. I was just
Speaker 1: having this conversation with my friend who's do like any day,
Speaker 1: and she was like freaking out because her dula has
Speaker 1: like six people do at the same time, and she's
Speaker 1: not gonna like, can't you Will she be there? Will
Speaker 1: she not? Will she be there with? And I said,
Speaker 1: I got news for you. It doesn't really matter. I said,
Speaker 1: I know you might want and picture this thing a
Speaker 1: certain way with certain people in the room, But the
Speaker 1: good news is you're enough, like you're going to get
Speaker 1: your own self through this, and your baby is gonna
Speaker 1: be here safely. And we've been doing this since like
Speaker 1: the beginning of time. There's there's really no option. You
Speaker 1: kind of get to like transition. Yeah, you're like, and
Speaker 1: I think we all have that moment at transition where
Speaker 1: we're like, I've changed my mind. I don't think I
Speaker 1: would like to do this. So okay, your labors, um,
Speaker 1: I can't believe you had. Is it non medicated or unmedicated? Yeah? No,
Speaker 1: no medication. But listen, though, this is kind of cool,
Speaker 1: tell me tell me well. One of the things that
Speaker 1: happened by studying Midwiffrey and studying Doulah stuff was I
Speaker 1: started learning about the human body and the human mind
Speaker 1: and the connection right and so so I was meditating
Speaker 1: throughout my pregnancy and a lot of it was centered
Speaker 1: on again deep programming this idea that the discomfort from
Speaker 1: labor is bad, bad, that this is a pology and
Speaker 1: you're getting injured. That's not what's happening. You're in discomfort.
Speaker 1: That's true. I'm not going to take away from that,
Speaker 1: but it's not that discomfort is not a sign that like,
Speaker 1: oh my femur is broken, like it's progressing. Right. My
Speaker 1: Dula would always say to me, like one more contraction
Speaker 1: is like, it's not a bad thing. It's one step
Speaker 1: closer to meeting your baby, you know, even the languaging
Speaker 1: around it. I mean, I'm a Gaskin who talks a
Speaker 1: lot about it. It doesn't want to call it contractions
Speaker 1: because she's like the word contraction makes you tense up.
Speaker 1: She calls the rushes beautiful. Right, imagery is like this
Speaker 1: wave kind of coming over you and like, you know,
Speaker 1: opening your cervix so your baby can come out. Dude,
Speaker 1: if I have another baby, which I am not, I
Speaker 1: would very much like to hire you as I love
Speaker 1: my Duelo. She's been on this twice and I'm obsessed
Speaker 1: with her. But maybe you can both do it. What
Speaker 1: made you retire your Duela straps, I don't know, as
Speaker 1: exhaust was it when you were like, and now I'm
Speaker 1: working in acting job eight million hours a day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: kind of. I went down to the farm to study
Speaker 1: with an Ame Gaskins. Yeah. Yeah, to the farm, you guys.
Speaker 1: For everyone listening, I had a Megas Skin wrote a book.
Speaker 1: It's called I have it. What is it called again,
Speaker 1: Amazed Guy to Childbirth? I'd Amazed Guide to Childbirth. When
Speaker 1: you open the book, is it from the seventies? The
Speaker 1: book seventies books? YEA spiritualman Wifery was her first, like
Speaker 1: the first version of it. And in that she's like
Speaker 1: and then you get the rushes and it's super groovy, man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you're seeing pictures of babies coming out of vagina's
Speaker 1: and there's just a lot of bush and you're like,
Speaker 1: this is so retro everywhere boobs and like lower children
Speaker 1: then I'll have these long beards. Yeah. And she had
Speaker 1: a farm where she would train midwives and people could
Speaker 1: go there and do like fully this amazing home birth style.
Speaker 1: I don't know what her style. And yeah, the farm
Speaker 1: was actually the longest functioning commune in like American history.
Speaker 1: It started in the seventies. Her husband and partner was
Speaker 1: like a professor from Berkeley and the whole caravan of
Speaker 1: school buses. I don't know if you remember that be
Speaker 1: heaven sound. And so it's this whole thing of like
Speaker 1: trying to like unplug and take back, you know, their
Speaker 1: own economy and and have women having their own babies
Speaker 1: because at the time, and I just talked about this recently,
Speaker 1: but at the time, women were taken into hospitals and
Speaker 1: men weren't allowed to go with them so they'd be
Speaker 1: all alone. They were put into like Twilight. Yeah. My
Speaker 1: husband's grandmother literally said I was put out under amnesia
Speaker 1: with both of my kids and then woke up like
Speaker 1: and met them. Which why do I let's define trauma
Speaker 1: like like, how can you possibly process what just happened
Speaker 1: to you when you were unconscious? You don't know? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that sounds absolutely horrifying, horrifying to me. It
Speaker 1: reminds me of like the clockwork Orange, like what's happening? Like, guys,
Speaker 1: this is so you actually went to the farm and
Speaker 1: trained there. Yeah, and that was super great. I didn't
Speaker 1: know like how deep it was, and I'm so here
Speaker 1: for it. It was pretty great. I mean because I
Speaker 1: started acting like pretty young, but I wasn't necessarily married
Speaker 1: to it as like the whole thing I was going
Speaker 1: to do in my life at that time. I was
Speaker 1: doing it primarily to pay tuition for school, and then
Speaker 1: it kind of became this passion and this thing that
Speaker 1: I was loved and that got me into flow. But
Speaker 1: for me, acting is where I very easily and quickly
Speaker 1: find flow. I'm so grateful for this path because it's
Speaker 1: so electric and it's so kind of did and you
Speaker 1: get to experience lives and connect with other actors and
Speaker 1: other lives and souls, and it can be so beautiful
Speaker 1: and powerful. But the thing is flow. The thing is
Speaker 1: not acting or entertainment industry, right, I totally agree. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So you can find flow wherever you are, yeah, right,
Speaker 1: And I think midwin free and childbirths, birth God, you
Speaker 1: can find flow there, right. Yeah. And you're you're giving
Speaker 1: me this vibe of like, Okay, so you've always really
Speaker 1: been into birth, labor, pregnancy autonomy, like family, women, your sisters,
Speaker 1: like surrounded by all this. Did you experience any sort
Speaker 1: of postpartum where you were like, oh, ship, this is
Speaker 1: not what I thought it was going to be, Or
Speaker 1: any sadness or blues or depression or like wake up
Speaker 1: calls anything like that. Like with with with having my kids, yeah, um, okay, God,
Speaker 1: they were all so different and at such different times
Speaker 1: in my life. I did not have significant depression. And
Speaker 1: some of that is probably you know, just roll of
Speaker 1: the dice, luck and uh and whatever my genetic predisposition is,
Speaker 1: and some of it, Let's be honest. I was back
Speaker 1: on set within weeks every single time I was on
Speaker 1: private practice. When I had Eliza, I think I was
Speaker 1: back to work six weeks, and then with Pippa, I
Speaker 1: was back to work four weeks later. No way, and
Speaker 1: Pippa maybe it was a little longer because it was
Speaker 1: over the Christmas break with it wasn't the regular hiatus
Speaker 1: and and so with Pippa was not only like birth,
Speaker 1: but it was like adjusting to having a child with
Speaker 1: significant special needs. Speaking about Pippa, her real name is Paloma. Yes,
Speaker 1: how did you choose that beautiful name? Well, let's see
Speaker 1: the family part of it. I mean, Eliza Giles. That's
Speaker 1: great English English. I love it so English, um and
Speaker 1: that and both of us have English uh in our
Speaker 1: in our backgrounds. Um. But I also um half Italian
Speaker 1: and my father was raised in Argentina and and so
Speaker 1: that's also there and Paloma means dove, and yeah, and
Speaker 1: so the idea of this kind of like holy spirit,
Speaker 1: peaceful little dove really appealed to us. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: it's it's absolutely gorgeous. How did you communicate to Eliza
Speaker 1: and loosend to that Pippa had down syndrome. So when
Speaker 1: Pippa was born, Eliza was how old Eliza was four
Speaker 1: and a half. Oh, so she was pretty young. Mostly
Speaker 1: we just we're excited about her having a sister, and
Speaker 1: then we did say that she would stay a baby
Speaker 1: for a little longer. It's kind of the way we
Speaker 1: articulated it, and the way that's true. I mean, Pippa
Speaker 1: is hitting all of her milestones. She's just hitting them
Speaker 1: later than other kids. But she jumps on the trampoline,
Speaker 1: and she has her favorite songs, and she sings like
Speaker 1: Leonard Cohen and write dances and on the tricycle, and
Speaker 1: like she does all of the things that a typical
Speaker 1: kid does, she just did them a little bit later.
Speaker 1: I want to say, I have not arrived at knowing
Speaker 1: how to engage with the conversation about disability yet and
Speaker 1: about the specifics of my family and the topic in general.
Speaker 1: I am in a learning process and I will continue
Speaker 1: to be in that learning process for the rest of
Speaker 1: my life. Um And sometimes I will make mistakes and
Speaker 1: I will try to learn about them and be accountable
Speaker 1: and do better next time. But I will never have arrived.
Speaker 1: And I think even the way I explained it to
Speaker 1: Eliza when she was little was really from a place
Speaker 1: of my own fear about the difference in what I
Speaker 1: expected her relationship with her sister to be and what
Speaker 1: I now thought it would be. I still had this
Speaker 1: idea that, like, oh, this is I have to explain
Speaker 1: to her the difference between Pippa and other siblings with Lucinda.
Speaker 1: With Lucinda, she's just experiencing Pippa. You know. They like
Speaker 1: steal each other's toys and push each other and give
Speaker 1: it to the food and hugs and kisses, and there's
Speaker 1: no like, let me tell you about her genetics. It's
Speaker 1: like bears and they have their relationship and it's specific.
Speaker 1: And so I think maybe I would have been less
Speaker 1: precious and like serious about explaining it to Eliza, and
Speaker 1: I would have let her discover her more like a
Speaker 1: teachable moment conversation, she wouldn't have known what a typical
Speaker 1: sibling would have been like either, So why did I
Speaker 1: feel the need to make a distinction there? Yeah, but
Speaker 1: like you said, and you preface so well, it's like
Speaker 1: we're learning. You know you're learning, And now you get
Speaker 1: another shot, which brings me to this essay. You pen
Speaker 1: this powerful essay in honor of Down Syndrome Awareness Month,
Speaker 1: where you talk a lot that equity is more of
Speaker 1: a useful word than equality. Can you talk about that
Speaker 1: distinction and why you thought why it's important to make
Speaker 1: that distinction. Yeah, and then we can decide how deep
Speaker 1: we're going to go with this. I think one way
Speaker 1: I like to think of it is equal is what
Speaker 1: we are inherently in terms of our value and our dignity.
Speaker 1: We are all equal. Equity is how we get there, right,
Speaker 1: because equal does not mean identical, and that, I think
Speaker 1: is the big kind of linguistic gas light that we've
Speaker 1: been dealing with as a culture. We've been told that
Speaker 1: equal is identical, and that's not the case, both in
Speaker 1: terms of our disability, in terms of our abilities and disabilities,
Speaker 1: but also the larger conversation in terms of the resources
Speaker 1: that we started out with. Right, what hand you were
Speaker 1: dealt with when you were born, like what you came
Speaker 1: into the yeah, and what kind of economic situation you're
Speaker 1: trying into, and what resources you had access to to
Speaker 1: get you to equals. Some people need a dollar, some
Speaker 1: people need ten. Right, As a culture and as a society,
Speaker 1: we kind of need to look at our values and
Speaker 1: decide what this whole equality conversation is about. Are we
Speaker 1: looking for creating a society where everyone's inherent dignity is
Speaker 1: supported or are we looking for and this is another
Speaker 1: gas light, a society where people have the quote freedom
Speaker 1: to get h equity if they can, right, and the
Speaker 1: freedom essentially it's not about dignity anymore. It becomes you
Speaker 1: have the freedom to acquire and a mass wealth, and
Speaker 1: through that acquired an a mass wealth, maybe you can
Speaker 1: create some dignity for yourself. Right, A pretty deep question
Speaker 1: about how do we want to structure the whole concept
Speaker 1: of our culture. What does each child need to unfold
Speaker 1: into the person that they are and have the potential
Speaker 1: to be calm and have the most joy and the
Speaker 1: most fulfillment and the most connection and the most flow
Speaker 1: in life. My God, your three daughters are so lucky
Speaker 1: that you're there. What organizations do you go to for
Speaker 1: support to learn more about Down syndrome? Yeah, Um, the
Speaker 1: first one that everybody told me about when Pippa was
Speaker 1: born was Club twenty one and it's um kind of
Speaker 1: a hangout center for families. People with Down syndrome have
Speaker 1: a different learning profile, So there's like reading and writing
Speaker 1: classes that are specifically designed for a visual learning profile.
Speaker 1: So like Pippa is four and she can already read
Speaker 1: Eliza couldn't read it four, But Pippa has a different
Speaker 1: learning profile, so she's visual and so she can't read
Speaker 1: like a whole book, but she can read simple words.
Speaker 1: She knows all her letters, both in sign language and visually,
Speaker 1: and she loves playing with the alphabet and and so anyway,
Speaker 1: they teach classes there and they also just have like
Speaker 1: a hangout room for the one to three kids where
Speaker 1: they just and there's lots of families that are like,
Speaker 1: what's going on with you and what doctor have you
Speaker 1: talked to? And what kind of food do you give
Speaker 1: your kid um if they have delayed tooth eruption. It's
Speaker 1: community and then Global Down Syndrome Foundation, the c Center
Speaker 1: does uh. They fundraise and then they use the money
Speaker 1: to do research on medical things and learning profile things
Speaker 1: and life supporting things that support people with Down syndrome.
Speaker 1: Because the numbers are so small now, pharmaceutical companies don't
Speaker 1: really fund the research because it doesn't have enough profit
Speaker 1: for them. And so anyway, in terms of funding, the
Speaker 1: Global Down Syndrome Foundation funds research and they've done incredible
Speaker 1: things recently to find out that essentially Down syndrome operates
Speaker 1: like an autoimmune disorder, and so some of the cognitive
Speaker 1: delay that's associated with Down syndrome is actually a combination
Speaker 1: of hypothyroid, which can be medicated, and so when you
Speaker 1: give hyroid medication, the cognition improves and a lot of
Speaker 1: us and then also this autoimmune situation that's going on
Speaker 1: in the viral branch of immune system that um, when
Speaker 1: the immune system is flaring, it can start to destroy neurons.
Speaker 1: Holy ship on the side, hustle, can you just do
Speaker 1: like a mommy and me for um or like I'm
Speaker 1: working on it. So Dr Amelia Shephard was pregnant on
Speaker 1: private practice and Gray's Anatomy. Two out of your three
Speaker 1: pregnancies were written into your character storyline is that correct?
Speaker 1: Two were written in yeeah, amazing. Mine was too. How
Speaker 1: did you find that out? Did you find that out
Speaker 1: at a table read? Or did Shanna tell you beforehand?
Speaker 1: They talked to me beforehand about it. I did not
Speaker 1: know what would be happening with my Mary. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: was like pretty heinous. We did you simulate breastfeeding too?
Speaker 1: I simulated labor. The baby didn't have a brain, right
Speaker 1: the baby, Yeah, head Anna's definitely and so I never
Speaker 1: got to breastfee that baby. But it was a pretty
Speaker 1: hard day. And it was also again like behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: Shanna Lynne super supportive and it's awesome for babies, but
Speaker 1: in front of the scenes usually something terrible, and like
Speaker 1: we're on a drama. We're on dramas. We're on Quinn's
Speaker 1: baby chained to a mattress in a base sment while
Speaker 1: I've been kidnapped in a wedding dress. They put me
Speaker 1: under aund aesthesia. Yeah, we're like a woman giving birth
Speaker 1: in the seventies. Yeah, exactly. And I remember Carrie Washington
Speaker 1: in between like every take, she was pregnant with both
Speaker 1: of her babies on Scandal, but she Olivia Pope wasn't pregnant,
Speaker 1: but we would keep running over to her belly and
Speaker 1: be like, this is just pretend. It's just pretend. Don't
Speaker 1: freak out in there. We're okay, like everything safe, Mommy's
Speaker 1: joking around. Well, and that was it. That was my
Speaker 1: biggest concern was I was like reading all the books
Speaker 1: that are like whatever old baby also, and I was like,
Speaker 1: this is a horror show. I asked my therapist that
Speaker 1: because I had hairy natal depression and anxiety this pregnancy,
Speaker 1: and I was not great. We're also in a pandemic.
Speaker 1: I was struggling really badly, and my daughter's like the
Speaker 1: chilliest baby and very smiley. And I asked my therapist
Speaker 1: and I was like, am I fucking at my kid
Speaker 1: that I'm really struggle me with his pregnancy? And she
Speaker 1: was like, I think that's like in war torn countries,
Speaker 1: like if bombs were going off and you were like
Speaker 1: really really scared for your life. But I think you're okay.
Speaker 1: But I really wonder if you're an actor who's scared
Speaker 1: and putting yourself through that trauma, Like I don't even know,
Speaker 1: I don't want to, we probably don't want to know
Speaker 1: where I come from myself as I'm like, well, maybe
Speaker 1: they will be prepared if there is a war. Their
Speaker 1: nervous system is totally tuned to handle that shit. Let's see,
Speaker 1: we've talked about that. You have a village. Bestow your
Speaker 1: knowledge on me, your further head on this journey than
Speaker 1: I am. What do you do to unwind or recharge?
Speaker 1: I mean, oh gosh, it changes meditation and prayer if
Speaker 1: that is the way you do it for me at
Speaker 1: this point, it's honestly whenever I can feel disregulation happening
Speaker 1: in my nervous system. So at two thirty in the morning,
Speaker 1: when my sixteen month old and my four and a
Speaker 1: half year old have both woken up and come into
Speaker 1: my bed and are fighting over which one of them
Speaker 1: I will put back to sleep first, and like clawing
Speaker 1: at my body, I'm meditating. And so I'm holding literally
Speaker 1: one in one arm and one in the other arm,
Speaker 1: and I'm swaying back and forth, and I'm meditating at
Speaker 1: that time because that isn't going to keep me calm
Speaker 1: and loving them and sane. Um. Yoga is a big piece.
Speaker 1: Although I have to go easy on myself right now,
Speaker 1: having a full austin and practice like a physical practice
Speaker 1: is not always an option when you're an exhausted mom.
Speaker 1: And so you know, if you get into like yoga philosophy,
Speaker 1: it's about again, it's about being in flow, and you
Speaker 1: can get there without doing the actual physical practice. One
Speaker 1: of the things that I'm doing to stay sane is
Speaker 1: go up to Kevin mckid's arm and I ride courses
Speaker 1: up on the farm. You know how to ride horses. No,
Speaker 1: I'm learning. It's amazing. I literally I leave all my
Speaker 1: kids on Sunday afternoon and I drive to his farm.
Speaker 1: And there is a wonderful woman there named Emma who
Speaker 1: works and lives on the farm, and she has been
Speaker 1: teaching writing her entire life, and so she um teaches
Speaker 1: me writing. That's that's a big tool for me. What
Speaker 1: do I have to look forward to when Albie hits
Speaker 1: Aliza's eight year old age. She's so funny now, I mean,
Speaker 1: all that cleverness that he's like busting busting bulls, Yeah exactly,
Speaker 1: it's infuriating. But oh my gosh, when he starts weaving
Speaker 1: that into like jokes and like things that he knows
Speaker 1: are going to like just make you bust like you did.
Speaker 1: I mean he's already doing that. It just gets better
Speaker 1: and more. And then also one of the things that's
Speaker 1: so beautiful about seeing her be hilarious is the delight
Speaker 1: that she's taken game from it, right, and that makes
Speaker 1: me feel delight. And so when you have the baby
Speaker 1: who like just figured out that sneezing is hilarious and
Speaker 1: they're like seizing that'slaus and they're going too and they're delighted.
Speaker 1: Or with Pippa, you know, like whatever she loves to,
Speaker 1: like spit on the trampoline right now and then fall,
Speaker 1: and what she's delighted in delights me. And so I
Speaker 1: think at any age, whether they're twelve or sixteen or
Speaker 1: in college like figuring out what they want to study,
Speaker 1: it's watching their delight, watching their delight. Katerina finished this
Speaker 1: sense in this moment, motherhood for me means radical curiosity.
Speaker 1: That's so good when are you teaching this fucking mommy
Speaker 1: and me class, because that's really what keeps you in
Speaker 1: positive Like when my son hits someone in the face
Speaker 1: with a stick, it's like it's like radical curiosity about
Speaker 1: like it's amazing, Like he's never played tug a war
Speaker 1: with a stick before, and of course, like when he's
Speaker 1: someone he loses and someone else gets it, and it's
Speaker 1: like fascinating and curious to watch how he responds in
Speaker 1: that situation. Right, First of all, he's radically curious. He's like,
Speaker 1: what's gonna happen if I hit that kid in the
Speaker 1: one hundred's Everything is further like to see what the
Speaker 1: hell happened, and what's going to happen to his face,
Speaker 1: what's going to happen with my parents? What does that
Speaker 1: mean for me and my relationship to the world, And
Speaker 1: then you get to kind of watch that whole scientific
Speaker 1: experiment unfold and like a little like that didn't go well,
Speaker 1: Oh that didn't go well, I'm leaving the party now
Speaker 1: and I'm not allowed to have the lollype shoot. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for being on Katie's Crib. I think
Speaker 1: you are the awesomest I really can't wait to sign
Speaker 1: up for your Mommy and Me class or read your
Speaker 1: book whenever I'm on my podcast, on your podcast, anything
Speaker 1: you want. Thank you so much for being on Kati's Crib,
Speaker 1: And thank you guys all for your support for listening.
Speaker 1: Share this episode like it, tell your friends about it,
Speaker 1: and if you have ideas for guests or topics this season,
Speaker 1: please reach out. My email address is Katie's Crib at
Speaker 1: Shonda land dot com. By everybody. Katie's Crib is a
Speaker 1: production of Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio.
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