WEBVTT - Selects: How Ayahuasca Works 0:00:01.160 --> 0:00:05.080 Hello, folks, it's Chuck here. It's Saturday, and that means 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:09.039 it's time for a Saturday Select episode curated this week 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:13.240 by What. This one goes all the way back to 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:17.880 December eleven, and that's about ayahuasca. We love doing our 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:21.520 episodes on various weird drugs and this is no exception. 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:30.080 So check out how ayahuasca works right now. Welcome to 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:33.000 Stuff you should Know, a production of I Heart Radio. 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:42.360 Hold on and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:46.400 There's Charles w Chuck Brian, there's Jerry over there, and 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:51.680 this is stuff you should know. The poor attempts at 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:58.360 Spanish edition and yet another drug cast mm hmm, covering 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:03.240 all the drugs everybody, one by one, and this one 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:07.720 is Aaska. We'll have to do one just specifically on 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:11.760 d m T sometime too, all right, because there you 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:14.640 know it's the d m T is the base of ayahuasca, 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:16.600 but it's different. I mean, there's other stuff going on 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:20.479 with ayahuasca that d MT doesn't have them. Spoiler alert. 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:22.800 DMT is its own thing for sure, from what I 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:26.840 can tell. Yeah, okay, so it's agreed then, Chuck, Yeah, 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:30.000 but you just ruined this whole episode. Oh sorry, well 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:34.840 let's go back to the beginning then. Uh yeah, ayahuasca 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:37.000 it has a bunch of different names. And this is 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.040 something I didn't know because I'm a dummy. I didn't 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:42.840 know anything about ayahuasca except to use it as jokes. 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.400 You know. It's been sort of a running punch line, like, 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:48.640 you know, you have to forgive me, I'm on ayahuasca, 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:52.880 that kind of thing. I got you. But uh, I 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:56.120 thought it was that was the name of like a plant, 0:01:56.520 --> 0:02:01.480 and it was one planted ayahuasca sort of like what's 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:06.000 the what's the other plant? The corn? Yeah, just sort 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:09.800 of like corn um No, the one that like, you know, 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:15.519 the doors took the meal. Yeah, mescaline, yeah, but that's 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:18.880 not the plant. What's the plant is mescal in the 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:22.720 plant to what a peyote? That's right, But that's the 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.560 mescaline buttons on a peyote plant, right, which we haven't 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:28.400 covered yet. We should do want a peyote? Bam, another 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:32.040 drug cast come and at you. But ayahuasca is not 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:36.640 the name of a plant. Uh. It is actually a 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:41.079 concoction made from a couple of different plants. Yeah. Yeah, 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.920 And originally it was just one plant actually known as 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:49.800 the vine of death. Yeah, oh, let's see what we 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:53.120 can do. Okay, you did the time wasting throat. Clear 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:57.919 that move. It's stalling. So if you go and drink 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:02.720 ayahuasca today, you're probably getting one that's a combination of 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:06.959 a plant called psycho Tria voritas. I think I got 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:13.200 that and a vine known as banistereopsis copy C A 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:21.959 p I so Psychotria veritas and bareness. Man, there's a 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:23.839 lot of letters in that one. Yeah. But if it's 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:27.480 it's pronounced like it looks ye banistereopsis, you got it 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:31.600 all right? Copy right? And that one, the second one, 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:34.800 the copy is the vine. Correct, that's the o g 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:40.160 ayahuasca ingredient, the vine of death. And this is I 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:43.280 guess we haven't even really said. We've danced around it. 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:47.720 It is a a drug concoction that they have been taking, 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:54.160 um since who knows when, but since before Europeans arrived 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:58.240 in the New World, A long long time in South America. Yeah, 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:02.040 and specifically they think it have originated among the Napo 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:06.080 Runa tribe in Ecuador, right, but it's spread throughout the 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:10.760 Amazon basin and today if you are a well to 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:15.800 do tech worker who makes your way down to South America. 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:20.279 You're probably going to go to Peru to check out 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:26.200 your ayahuasca trip. Yeah, this became a thing, weirdly, uh 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:30.760 in Silicon Valley. Uh, if you were a young, rich 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:33.960 entrepreneur in Silicon Valley that has a couple of hit 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:37.239 apps on your hand, it became a thing to throw 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:41.039 on your hoodie and travel to South America to take 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:45.000 part in an ayahuasca ceremony. Yep, and I'm not sure. 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:47.680 I mean, I guess I know what happens is one 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:53.120 one dude does that and then says, bro, you gotta 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:56.560 do this right a late night conversation, a burning man 0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:01.039 opens the Absolutely, that's how it went now and then 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:04.640 before you know it, it's a thing. Right. You know, 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.440 there's some kids in Silicon Valley being like, wait a minute, 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.880 wait a minute, are they making fun of us right now? 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:13.080 And then they feel that that hood that they've never 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:16.279 even put over their head itching their neck and they're 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:26.400 stupid stereotypes being true. Oh man, At any rate, ayahuasca yes, so, um, 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:28.760 it did start out as a traditional thing, but there's like, 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:32.240 you know, the whole popularity that grew among Westerners traveling 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.120 down to South America for whatever reason. I'm sure um 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.719 for vision quests for fun a drug they hadn't tried yet. 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:41.880 Who cares. There's a lot of reasons that people travel 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:45.560 down to South America to partake in this UM. Certainly 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:49.520 most of them not nefarious or dumb. UM. Probably a 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:53.040 lot of the reasons were great. But the the influx 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:59.440 of Westerners and Western money has radically altered ayahuasca and 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.400 in the Sarah premonies and rites and the people who 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:06.039 perform ayahuasca ceremonies just over there, like the last ten 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:09.360 or so years, dramatically. Yeah, one might even say that 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:13.920 the western white man has ruined the whole thing. I 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:17.599 think that there's I think it's been commercialized, but that 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:22.359 there are still very much um. The the original or 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.880 the real deal is protected in many ways by by 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:28.520 the people who are like, yeah, you guys, go drink 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:30.960 it over there. We've got our thing going on over here. 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:33.800 And in fact, there's at least two churches in the 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:39.680 United States that practice ayahuasca diets UM that that are 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:45.479 real deal religions as far as the Supreme Courts concerned, UM, 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:49.479 that clearly show that there are there is real, legit 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:54.400 ayahuasca ceremonies being practiced throughout the world. I think both 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:57.839 of them are are from Brazil. Yeah. In two thousand six, 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:01.640 h the Supreme Court said that, uh, the n I 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:06.279 Oh Do vegetal U d V was a legit religion 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.880 and they are in fact from Brazil Christian spiritualists about 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:15.000 seventeen thousand UH adherents all over the world. Uh. And 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.760 the literal translation of that religion is the Union of 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:22.160 the Plants, right, So it's like a plant religion and 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:26.560 aahuasca is at the center of this. Uh. Yeah. The 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:33.880 other one is a Christian syncretism like Santo. Yeah, that 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:39.880 one is like, um, they incorporate not just indigenous Brazilian 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:44.320 and South American beliefs, but also some African indigenous beliefs, 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:48.120 are folk beliefs as well. Like it's it's a whole um, 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:52.960 very big inclusive pantheon that that is centered around visions 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:57.400 from ayahuasca and like an ayahuasca sacrament. It's pretty interesting. Yeah. 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.640 Both protected in the United States by law now that 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.280 this is part of this plant concoction as part of 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:08.920 their religion. They cannot be arrested for doing this because 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:13.560 the legalities of it. Is is is technically illegal? Um, 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:15.840 it's a little great whether or not the actual plant 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:20.040 is illegal? Is that right? Yeah? Supposedly the plants themselves 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:23.720 are not illegal. It's the combination or the brew made 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:27.320 from them that's illegal. That's what I saw. I don't 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:29.640 know that that's necessarily true. And I would guess if 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.880 the plants are still legal now, they won't be in 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:37.320 two three years, because you know, why why make it legal? 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:41.800 Why let it be legal? Yeah? Something people get enjoyment 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:44.320 for it comes from the earth. Let's outlawed. Yeah. I 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:46.960 don't know if enjoyment is quite the right word though, 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.959 from the way that um the Grabster puts it that 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:54.600 the an ayahuasca trip is not necessarily fun. It's a 0:08:54.760 --> 0:09:00.560 harrowing psychological, spiritual journey that you're undertaking. All right, let's 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.040 take a break, okay, alright, let see you getting excited 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:06.040 over there. Uh, And we'll talk a little bit more 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:08.560 about d m T and kind of what's going on 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:36.400 in your body physiologically right after this. Alright, So d 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:40.920 m T, which you mentioned at the onset, the the 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.760 one part of this concoction, the p veritas contains d 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:48.520 M t. You're gonna pronounce that. Oh, yes, it's methyl 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.800 trip to me. Oh look at you just rolls off 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.000 the tongue now, doesn't it. Uh. So this is something 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.760 not exclusive to p verritas. It's found in a bunch 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:02.760 of psychedelic substances, and this is something that can cause hallucinations, 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:07.920 perhaps changes in your perception, your state of consciousness, your 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.640 sense of self, which will really get into it has 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:14.000 a lot to do with the ayahuasca journey. Um. However, 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.120 if you just eat the d M t UM, it's 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.800 not gonna have this this kind of effect on you because, Uh, 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:26.600 there's an enzyme called uh monoamine oxidase, and that's gonna 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:29.520 break it down your in your digestive system before it 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:31.839 gets absorbed. So you have to combine it with this 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:36.240 copy vine which prevents the uptake of it. Yeah, the 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:40.800 copy vine has an alkaloid called harmala alkaloid, and harmalines 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:45.200 are psychotropic and of themselves, which is why the the 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:49.760 copy vine alone used to just be ayahuasca. But the 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:55.200 fact that it prevents um your your the monoamine oxidase 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:58.280 to break down the d M t it allows your 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:02.160 body to absorb it all of a sudden you're tripping balls, 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.160 although I hear it's not all of a sudden. I 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.559 think it's it takes a good thirty minutes to come on, 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.920 and then it takes like a supplementary boost um an 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:16.200 hour or so later to to really bring on like 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:21.000 the kind of transcendent experience that people are looking for 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:25.439 when they take ayahuasca. So you've got the you've got 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:27.400 the d m T being absorbed. That's the one to 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.040 punch right. You've got the d MT itself, and then 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.319 you've got the plant that allows the d m T 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.240 to be absorbed. And when you put those two things together, 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.800 the p veritas and the B copy, that's what the 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:42.320 that's the ayahuasca that you read about and vice that's 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:44.679 what they're talking about. Yeah, and these you know, this 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:49.079 is administered by a shaman um someone who ideally as 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:52.240 a shaman that knows what they're doing. And there's sometimes 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:54.440 there are other plants that are brewed in there as well, 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:58.880 but uh not always, And sometimes it's brewed separately and 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:01.120 then combined later. Sometimes times it all depends on which 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:03.559 shaman you go to, of what the ritual is like. 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.839 Sometimes you're included as part of it. Um. Sometimes it's 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:12.280 like a thick liquid t sometimes it's a paste. It's 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.920 been described. No matter what it is, it seems like 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:20.920 around the horn. Everybody says it tastes awful, so awful 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.800 that that you can very easily throw up, which is 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:28.920 something that's pretty common with the um. With an ayahuasca experiences. 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:31.080 I didn't get that from the From the taste, though, 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:33.600 I got that that that was like, once it's in 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.640 your body, it makes you nauseous and you throw up, right, 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:38.680 But like, oh, this taste so bad, I'm gonna puke 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:40.600 it up. No, No, because then it wouldn't be in 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:43.240 your body long enough to be absorbed. Right. Yeah, But 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.120 I think the taste and the memory of the taste, 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:50.160 combined with the nausea is enough to throw up. But 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:52.319 the whether whether you do throw up or not, it's 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:56.839 not necessarily like you're going to throw up there the 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:00.400 the point, one of the points of an eye ahuasca 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:04.240 ceremony is to throw up. You're meant to throw up um, 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:08.120 and you're you will actually be forced into this either 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:10.400 if you don't do it from the ayahuasca. You may 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.839 also be given something like tobacco juice like a water 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:16.120 with tobacco that's soaked in it for a while, and 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:18.840 you'll be told to drink that so that you will 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:22.800 throw up. Because this idea of purging, whether it's throwing 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:26.320 up or diarrhea, is a very frequent side effective iahuaca, 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:29.840 very frequent. Um. You are you are meant to be 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:32.760 purging your your body, and it's meant to be this 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:37.920 kind of symbolic spiritual purge of your ego, of all 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:41.320 the nastiness, of all the horrible nous that's a part 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.760 of you. You're getting it out as part of the 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:46.880 trip and as the trip sets in. Yeah, and the 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.880 taste has been described. The New York Times has said 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:54.240 it's like a um muddy herbal taste. Uh. Someone from 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:57.040 vox dot com took it a gun named Shaun Illing. 0:13:57.520 --> 0:13:59.920 He described it as a cup of motor oil diluted 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.880 with a splash of water. So I read, I read 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:08.800 it's almost as gross as a Neco wafer. I don't 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.800 think i've ever had anco wafer? Good on you have? 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.760 You know what? Am I crazy? What are they not? 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:19.280 Go wafers like old timey kind of like chalky candy 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.880 that comes in a role you've seen them. Probably you've 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.400 seen them in my old timey candy days exactly. I'm 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:30.720 sure I did. Uh So all right, I guess we 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:34.240 should talk a little bit about uh, Like you said, um, 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:38.000 it's orange. It's origins in the Napo River basin by 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:41.200 this Runa tribe like you said, Uh, And it's called 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:43.840 the Vine of Death or the mother Vine. This copy 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:45.560 and they think that early on they may have just 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:50.520 taken this copy by itself, right, because the brew it's 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:54.480 got the harmlins in it that's not only an m 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.800 A o I but also has like its own kind 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:00.800 of psychoactive stuff going on. So that was the original Iowa. Yeah, 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.680 and we have written accounts from like the seventeen hundreds 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:07.000 when Jesuits would go to the Amazon to try and 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:11.560 you know, christianize folks and trip balls. Yeah, because I'm 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:15.880 sure the entry was like whoa, and that's it. Did 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.440 you hear about the guy that was just killed the missionary? Yes? 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:24.760 On setting Ali's sent in All Island. Yeah, he it's 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:27.640 like something from a movie. He went at first and 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.040 a child shot an arrow through a bible that he 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:35.560 was holding. Apparently I hadn't heard about that. Yeah, because 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:37.200 he had. He went back a few times and was 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.040 like journaling about it and said he basically like held 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.440 up his Bible. It's like something from a movie and 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:44.640 an arrow was shot through it. And I'm like, dude, 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.320 if that is not like, if you believe in God, 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:50.040 that's a sign from God. Well you you remember the 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:54.520 turnaround the man in the whole episode we talked about them. Yeah, 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:57.160 they were the ones that like you, like everyone knew 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.280 you just don't go anywhere near him and did some 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.200 fishermen and killed like years a few years back, and 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:05.360 this guy I guess had tried um. He decided he 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.840 was going to be the one. Yeah. I don't actually 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:12.360 know enough about the story, but he clearly was trying 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:16.360 to jane access to them. Yeah. Yeah, he was trying 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:19.280 to spread the word of Jesus and paid like you're 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:21.800 not supposed it's illegal, I think, to even trespass there. 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:24.200 But he paid people sort of under the table to 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.080 take him there, and they did so, and those people 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.120 were arrested and his family is saying, you need to 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:32.560 let these people go because he like really wanted to 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:35.560 do this. I see. It's very interesting. Yeah it is. 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.760 It's crazy, but I just like that sounds like something 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:40.560 you would make up from a movie, like shooting an 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:44.000 arrow through the Bible they're holding up, you know. Uh 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:45.560 So we got a little sidetrack, but we were talking 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.400 about the Jesuits like having this on record in the 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.400 seventeen hundreds when they went and they were like, hey, 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.760 there's something going down down here. That's very interesting. Yeah. 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:59.120 And even William S. Burrows wrote the Yahee Letters in 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:03.320 three and it was about his experience with the Aahuascar vine. 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:08.280 And apparently they the practitioners at the time knew, um 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:12.280 well into the to the the twentieth century, that you 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:16.760 could combine it with the p veritis fine and and 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:19.520 have a completely different experience. But that wasn't necessarily the point. 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:23.040 That was like an optional ceremony you could perform. But 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:26.080 the most, the most widespread and traditional ceremony was just 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:29.880 the vine of death, right. Yeah. And then at some 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:34.359 point somebody started putting him together and word about this 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.720 got out, and the mid two thousand's is when it 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.960 just ayahuasca like kind of hit the public consciousness in 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.760 the West. Yeah. I mean in the sixties, of course, 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:49.200 uh in in certain uh you know, subcultures in America. 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.080 They knew about it because of william S Burrows and 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:55.040 people seeking out you know, things like peyote and all 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:59.560 kinds of psychedelic experiences, but it definitely was not sort 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:03.000 of in the stream until you know, not not too 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.359 long ago. And even still I think even at the 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:09.440 time it was strictly the harm alines and and just 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:12.359 the the vine that was being used, the copy vine. 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:17.600 It wasn't. It wasn't. Somebody started putting it together frequently 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:22.240 with the the veritas plant, and that's when it became 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:28.160 hugely popular. Yeah, so popular now that there is ayahuasca 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:32.159 tourism big time like going on in South America. And 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.720 uh said the central part is Peru's uh a room 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.360 bomba valley. And if you, I mean, if you were 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:43.640 going down for an ayahuasca experience like a spiritual quest, 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.160 is is the reason you're going down there? I don't 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:50.159 fault you for that at all, um, But you have 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:55.480 to understand the the You have to do your research. 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:57.760 You can't just show up in South America and be like, 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:01.000 all right, somebody give me some ayahuasca. Because there are 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:04.439 a lot of um in scrupulous and nefarious outfits that 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:09.320 have come up to to take advantage explicitly of that 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:13.760 kind of Western tourist, the ill informed Western tourist who 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.639 is going to have a horrible, terrible trip and not 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:20.000 going to get the spiritual experience you're looking for. Um So, 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:21.639 you have to do your research because there are some 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:27.680 legitimate ayahuasca outfits in South America, but you, um, they're 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:29.480 they're not going to take you if you just show 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:32.080 up down there, and you're gonna end up in some 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:36.080 some in a bad situation. Yeah for sure. Um So, 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:39.760 taking part in one of these ceremonies, let's say you 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:44.560 do find like a legit shaman who's willing to take 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:49.160 your American dollars or whatever, however you're paying your gold 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:53.800 en gets and drink its. Uh, it's still it's sort 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:55.439 of funny. It all goes back to Burrows with the 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:59.280 set and setting thing, which is what he famously preached 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.040 about any psychic dellic experience is to really put a 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.200 lot of thought into the set in the setting where 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:06.560 you're gonna do this, so it goes well for you. 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:11.679 Um So, as this uh concoction is being brewed, like 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.720 I said before, sometimes you're taking part in this and 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:18.080 helping to mash it up and brew the t um. 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:21.000 But what they're really trying to do is, um, the 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:24.960 whole ceremony isn't just like for show. It's it's all 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:28.000 part of the thing to get you settled in and 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:31.360 focused on kind of the right things going in, Like 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:33.760 what do you want to accomplish here, what do you 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.520 want to find out about yourself? What questions do you 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.560 have about yourself? And really get into that that frame 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:43.679 of mind as they hand you your puke bucket. Although 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:46.880 I would recommend bringing your own, Oh yeah, I hadn't 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.760 thought about that. I would not want to reused puke bucket. 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.239 Good lord. I hadn't even considered that it would be 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:56.280 by O B for me, So um yeah, I can 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:59.119 just totally see how as a as a Westerner, you 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:00.679 would just be like, come on, we don't need the 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:04.679 ceremony stuff. Let's just give me the good stuff. But that, 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:06.840 like you said, that's the point is to ease you 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:11.200 into it, to get your mind and body prepared for this, 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.080 this enormous trip you're about to go on, because if 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:15.960 you just get dropped right in the middle of it 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:19.600 without any kind of preparation or without any kind of assistance, 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:25.240 you're going to lose your marbles pretty pretty well. UM. 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:27.280 So that that is a big part of going on 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:31.680 an ayahuasca journey is is having somebody who's competent, trained 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:35.960 and UM, empathetic and willing to stay there with you, 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:38.159 to prepare you, to stay with you, to keep an 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:40.680 eye on you. You need to be monitored. You can't 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:43.040 be up and like just running off into the jungle 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:45.159 by yourself, because terrible things are going to happen to 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:48.600 you in that situation. UM. And then to help you 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:52.760 afterward as well, and from from some of the preliminary 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:56.400 research that's starting to come in, if you undertake an 0:21:56.400 --> 0:22:00.560 ayahuasca journey, I guess is that it's the best word 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:03.880 I can come up with. UM. Under the right setting, 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:07.520 under the right guidance, with the right support, both pre 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:11.760 during and after, it can have profound effects on your 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:15.000 spirituality and your sense of connectedness to the universe. It 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:18.480 can also possibly help you with UM with diagnosed mental 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:22.520 illness as well. Yeah, well we'll get to the illness 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:25.479 part mental illness part at the end, but UM, just 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:31.240 your standard sort of truth seeker, let's say, okay, UM, 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:33.719 it's very much tight into like what the and ideal 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:36.600 conditions and like the sixties and seventies with Ellis and 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:41.399 Guess beyond, but the LSD experience and that. Uh, there 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:43.199 was a lot of talk in the sixties about the 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:49.680 ego and every you know, hip musician and in the 0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:53.800 United States talked about stripping away the ego, from Brian 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:56.280 Wilson to the Mamas and the Papa's too, you know 0:22:56.359 --> 0:23:01.000 Neil Young. Uh is stripping away that ego of self basically, 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:05.560 which which means kind of getting outside yourself to the 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:09.159 point where, uh, you're not looking at the world around 0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:13.359 you and how it affects you, but there there is 0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:15.680 no you. There is no It's a loss of self 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:18.919 such that's so profound that you can only see the 0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:23.440 world and people around you as they exist in reality. Uh. 0:23:23.480 --> 0:23:26.119 It's it's a pretty sort of deep, trippy thing to 0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:29.199 try and describe in words on a podcast, But I 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:32.400 think that's sort of the general thing is is uh 0:23:32.720 --> 0:23:35.720 washing that ego down to where it's not around anymore 0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:38.280 and you get like a true sense of the world 0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:41.800 around you, like for the maybe for the first time. Yeah, yeah, 0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:43.760 and the the ego in and of itself isn't a 0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:46.360 bad thing like it's it's they think that it developed 0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:50.040 among animals. Is a like, that's your sense of self awareness. 0:23:50.080 --> 0:23:53.280 That's the thing that leads you to want to preserve 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:57.240 your own life, to get away from danger, to realize that, like, 0:23:57.320 --> 0:23:59.959 you can die because there is a you, right, It's 0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:03.560 a very basic thing. Um. The problem is is in humans, 0:24:04.040 --> 0:24:07.560 as we've evolved, our ego has also evolved, and it 0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:10.240 can get to a point where it's unhealthy. It's kind 0:24:10.240 --> 0:24:13.760 of toxic. It can help you develop bad, bad relationships, 0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:16.119 people don't want to be around you. It can also 0:24:16.200 --> 0:24:19.639 affect your self esteem if your egos underdeveloped. There's a 0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:21.480 lot of problems that can go wrong with the ego, 0:24:21.840 --> 0:24:24.800 and so a lot of people who prescribe psychedelics to 0:24:24.840 --> 0:24:28.720 deal with that kind of thing say, psychedelics strip away 0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:31.280 the ego. And now that we've gotten to the point 0:24:31.359 --> 0:24:34.760 where where we are advanced enough as a civilization that 0:24:34.840 --> 0:24:37.679 we can give people acid and put them in the 0:24:37.920 --> 0:24:41.280 an MRI machine, the Wonder machine and watch what happens, 0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:44.600 we've shown that, Yes, it seems like the the areas 0:24:44.640 --> 0:24:49.040