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Speaker 1: Hello, folks, it's Chuck here. It's Saturday, and that means

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Speaker 1: it's time for a Saturday Select episode curated this week

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Speaker 1: by What. This one goes all the way back to

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Speaker 1: December eleven, and that's about ayahuasca. We love doing our

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Speaker 1: episodes on various weird drugs and this is no exception.

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Speaker 1: So check out how ayahuasca works right now. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: Stuff you should Know, a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hold on and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark,

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Speaker 1: There's Charles w Chuck Brian, there's Jerry over there, and

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Speaker 1: this is stuff you should know. The poor attempts at

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Speaker 1: Spanish edition and yet another drug cast mm hmm, covering

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Speaker 1: all the drugs everybody, one by one, and this one

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Speaker 1: is Aaska. We'll have to do one just specifically on

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Speaker 1: d m T sometime too, all right, because there you

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Speaker 1: know it's the d m T is the base of ayahuasca,

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Speaker 1: but it's different. I mean, there's other stuff going on

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Speaker 1: with ayahuasca that d MT doesn't have them. Spoiler alert.

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Speaker 1: DMT is its own thing for sure, from what I

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Speaker 1: can tell. Yeah, okay, so it's agreed then, Chuck, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you just ruined this whole episode. Oh sorry, well

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Speaker 1: let's go back to the beginning then. Uh yeah, ayahuasca

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Speaker 1: it has a bunch of different names. And this is

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Speaker 1: something I didn't know because I'm a dummy. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know anything about ayahuasca except to use it as jokes.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's been sort of a running punch line, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you have to forgive me, I'm on ayahuasca,

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing. I got you. But uh, I

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Speaker 1: thought it was that was the name of like a plant,

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Speaker 1: and it was one planted ayahuasca sort of like what's

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Speaker 1: the what's the other plant? The corn? Yeah, just sort

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Speaker 1: of like corn um No, the one that like, you know,

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Speaker 1: the doors took the meal. Yeah, mescaline, yeah, but that's

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Speaker 1: not the plant. What's the plant is mescal in the

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Speaker 1: plant to what a peyote? That's right, But that's the

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Speaker 1: mescaline buttons on a peyote plant, right, which we haven't

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Speaker 1: covered yet. We should do want a peyote? Bam, another

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Speaker 1: drug cast come and at you. But ayahuasca is not

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Speaker 1: the name of a plant. Uh. It is actually a

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Speaker 1: concoction made from a couple of different plants. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And originally it was just one plant actually known as

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Speaker 1: the vine of death. Yeah, oh, let's see what we

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Speaker 1: can do. Okay, you did the time wasting throat. Clear

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Speaker 1: that move. It's stalling. So if you go and drink

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Speaker 1: ayahuasca today, you're probably getting one that's a combination of

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Speaker 1: a plant called psycho Tria voritas. I think I got

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Speaker 1: that and a vine known as banistereopsis copy C A

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Speaker 1: p I so Psychotria veritas and bareness. Man, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of letters in that one. Yeah. But if it's

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Speaker 1: it's pronounced like it looks ye banistereopsis, you got it

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Speaker 1: all right? Copy right? And that one, the second one,

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Speaker 1: the copy is the vine. Correct, that's the o g

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Speaker 1: ayahuasca ingredient, the vine of death. And this is I

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Speaker 1: guess we haven't even really said. We've danced around it.

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Speaker 1: It is a a drug concoction that they have been taking,

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Speaker 1: um since who knows when, but since before Europeans arrived

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Speaker 1: in the New World, A long long time in South America. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and specifically they think it have originated among the Napo

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Speaker 1: Runa tribe in Ecuador, right, but it's spread throughout the

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Speaker 1: Amazon basin and today if you are a well to

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Speaker 1: do tech worker who makes your way down to South America.

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Speaker 1: You're probably going to go to Peru to check out

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Speaker 1: your ayahuasca trip. Yeah, this became a thing, weirdly, uh

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Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley. Uh, if you were a young, rich

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Speaker 1: entrepreneur in Silicon Valley that has a couple of hit

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Speaker 1: apps on your hand, it became a thing to throw

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Speaker 1: on your hoodie and travel to South America to take

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Speaker 1: part in an ayahuasca ceremony. Yep, and I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I know what happens is one

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Speaker 1: one dude does that and then says, bro, you gotta

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Speaker 1: do this right a late night conversation, a burning man

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Speaker 1: opens the Absolutely, that's how it went now and then

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Speaker 1: before you know it, it's a thing. Right. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's some kids in Silicon Valley being like, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, are they making fun of us right now?

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Speaker 1: And then they feel that that hood that they've never

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Speaker 1: even put over their head itching their neck and they're

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Speaker 1: stupid stereotypes being true. Oh man, At any rate, ayahuasca yes, so, um,

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Speaker 1: it did start out as a traditional thing, but there's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, the whole popularity that grew among Westerners traveling

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Speaker 1: down to South America for whatever reason. I'm sure um

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Speaker 1: for vision quests for fun a drug they hadn't tried yet.

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Speaker 1: Who cares. There's a lot of reasons that people travel

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Speaker 1: down to South America to partake in this UM. Certainly

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Speaker 1: most of them not nefarious or dumb. UM. Probably a

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Speaker 1: lot of the reasons were great. But the the influx

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Speaker 1: of Westerners and Western money has radically altered ayahuasca and

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Speaker 1: in the Sarah premonies and rites and the people who

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Speaker 1: perform ayahuasca ceremonies just over there, like the last ten

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Speaker 1: or so years, dramatically. Yeah, one might even say that

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Speaker 1: the western white man has ruined the whole thing. I

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Speaker 1: think that there's I think it's been commercialized, but that

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Speaker 1: there are still very much um. The the original or

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Speaker 1: the real deal is protected in many ways by by

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Speaker 1: the people who are like, yeah, you guys, go drink

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Speaker 1: it over there. We've got our thing going on over here.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, there's at least two churches in the

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Speaker 1: United States that practice ayahuasca diets UM that that are

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Speaker 1: real deal religions as far as the Supreme Courts concerned, UM,

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Speaker 1: that clearly show that there are there is real, legit

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Speaker 1: ayahuasca ceremonies being practiced throughout the world. I think both

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Speaker 1: of them are are from Brazil. Yeah. In two thousand six,

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Speaker 1: h the Supreme Court said that, uh, the n I

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Speaker 1: Oh Do vegetal U d V was a legit religion

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Speaker 1: and they are in fact from Brazil Christian spiritualists about

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Speaker 1: seventeen thousand UH adherents all over the world. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: the literal translation of that religion is the Union of

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Speaker 1: the Plants, right, So it's like a plant religion and

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Speaker 1: aahuasca is at the center of this. Uh. Yeah. The

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Speaker 1: other one is a Christian syncretism like Santo. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: one is like, um, they incorporate not just indigenous Brazilian

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Speaker 1: and South American beliefs, but also some African indigenous beliefs,

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Speaker 1: are folk beliefs as well. Like it's it's a whole um,

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Speaker 1: very big inclusive pantheon that that is centered around visions

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Speaker 1: from ayahuasca and like an ayahuasca sacrament. It's pretty interesting. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Both protected in the United States by law now that

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Speaker 1: this is part of this plant concoction as part of

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Speaker 1: their religion. They cannot be arrested for doing this because

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Speaker 1: the legalities of it. Is is is technically illegal? Um,

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Speaker 1: it's a little great whether or not the actual plant

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Speaker 1: is illegal? Is that right? Yeah? Supposedly the plants themselves

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Speaker 1: are not illegal. It's the combination or the brew made

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Speaker 1: from them that's illegal. That's what I saw. I don't

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Speaker 1: know that that's necessarily true. And I would guess if

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Speaker 1: the plants are still legal now, they won't be in

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Speaker 1: two three years, because you know, why why make it legal?

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Speaker 1: Why let it be legal? Yeah? Something people get enjoyment

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Speaker 1: for it comes from the earth. Let's outlawed. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if enjoyment is quite the right word though,

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Speaker 1: from the way that um the Grabster puts it that

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Speaker 1: the an ayahuasca trip is not necessarily fun. It's a

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Speaker 1: harrowing psychological, spiritual journey that you're undertaking. All right, let's

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Speaker 1: take a break, okay, alright, let see you getting excited

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Speaker 1: over there. Uh, And we'll talk a little bit more

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Speaker 1: about d m T and kind of what's going on

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Speaker 1: in your body physiologically right after this. Alright, So d

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Speaker 1: m T, which you mentioned at the onset, the the

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Speaker 1: one part of this concoction, the p veritas contains d

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Speaker 1: M t. You're gonna pronounce that. Oh, yes, it's methyl

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Speaker 1: trip to me. Oh look at you just rolls off

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Speaker 1: the tongue now, doesn't it. Uh. So this is something

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Speaker 1: not exclusive to p verritas. It's found in a bunch

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Speaker 1: of psychedelic substances, and this is something that can cause hallucinations,

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Speaker 1: perhaps changes in your perception, your state of consciousness, your

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Speaker 1: sense of self, which will really get into it has

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Speaker 1: a lot to do with the ayahuasca journey. Um. However,

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Speaker 1: if you just eat the d M t UM, it's

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Speaker 1: not gonna have this this kind of effect on you because, Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's an enzyme called uh monoamine oxidase, and that's gonna

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Speaker 1: break it down your in your digestive system before it

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Speaker 1: gets absorbed. So you have to combine it with this

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Speaker 1: copy vine which prevents the uptake of it. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: copy vine has an alkaloid called harmala alkaloid, and harmalines

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Speaker 1: are psychotropic and of themselves, which is why the the

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Speaker 1: copy vine alone used to just be ayahuasca. But the

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Speaker 1: fact that it prevents um your your the monoamine oxidase

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Speaker 1: to break down the d M t it allows your

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Speaker 1: body to absorb it all of a sudden you're tripping balls,

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Speaker 1: although I hear it's not all of a sudden. I

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Speaker 1: think it's it takes a good thirty minutes to come on,

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Speaker 1: and then it takes like a supplementary boost um an

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Speaker 1: hour or so later to to really bring on like

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Speaker 1: the kind of transcendent experience that people are looking for

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Speaker 1: when they take ayahuasca. So you've got the you've got

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Speaker 1: the d m T being absorbed. That's the one to

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Speaker 1: punch right. You've got the d MT itself, and then

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Speaker 1: you've got the plant that allows the d m T

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Speaker 1: to be absorbed. And when you put those two things together,

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Speaker 1: the p veritas and the B copy, that's what the

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Speaker 1: that's the ayahuasca that you read about and vice that's

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Speaker 1: what they're talking about. Yeah, and these you know, this

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Speaker 1: is administered by a shaman um someone who ideally as

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Speaker 1: a shaman that knows what they're doing. And there's sometimes

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Speaker 1: there are other plants that are brewed in there as well,

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Speaker 1: but uh not always, And sometimes it's brewed separately and

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Speaker 1: then combined later. Sometimes times it all depends on which

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Speaker 1: shaman you go to, of what the ritual is like.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you're included as part of it. Um. Sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: like a thick liquid t sometimes it's a paste. It's

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Speaker 1: been described. No matter what it is, it seems like

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Speaker 1: around the horn. Everybody says it tastes awful, so awful

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Speaker 1: that that you can very easily throw up, which is

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Speaker 1: something that's pretty common with the um. With an ayahuasca experiences.

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Speaker 1: I didn't get that from the From the taste, though,

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Speaker 1: I got that that that was like, once it's in

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Speaker 1: your body, it makes you nauseous and you throw up, right,

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Speaker 1: But like, oh, this taste so bad, I'm gonna puke

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Speaker 1: it up. No, No, because then it wouldn't be in

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Speaker 1: your body long enough to be absorbed. Right. Yeah, But

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Speaker 1: I think the taste and the memory of the taste,

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Speaker 1: combined with the nausea is enough to throw up. But

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Speaker 1: the whether whether you do throw up or not, it's

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Speaker 1: not necessarily like you're going to throw up there the

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Speaker 1: the point, one of the points of an eye ahuasca

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Speaker 1: ceremony is to throw up. You're meant to throw up um,

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Speaker 1: and you're you will actually be forced into this either

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Speaker 1: if you don't do it from the ayahuasca. You may

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Speaker 1: also be given something like tobacco juice like a water

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Speaker 1: with tobacco that's soaked in it for a while, and

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Speaker 1: you'll be told to drink that so that you will

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Speaker 1: throw up. Because this idea of purging, whether it's throwing

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Speaker 1: up or diarrhea, is a very frequent side effective iahuaca,

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Speaker 1: very frequent. Um. You are you are meant to be

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Speaker 1: purging your your body, and it's meant to be this

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Speaker 1: kind of symbolic spiritual purge of your ego, of all

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Speaker 1: the nastiness, of all the horrible nous that's a part

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Speaker 1: of you. You're getting it out as part of the

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Speaker 1: trip and as the trip sets in. Yeah, and the

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Speaker 1: taste has been described. The New York Times has said

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Speaker 1: it's like a um muddy herbal taste. Uh. Someone from

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Speaker 1: vox dot com took it a gun named Shaun Illing.

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Speaker 1: He described it as a cup of motor oil diluted

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Speaker 1: with a splash of water. So I read, I read

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Speaker 1: it's almost as gross as a Neco wafer. I don't

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Speaker 1: think i've ever had anco wafer? Good on you have?

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Speaker 1: You know what? Am I crazy? What are they not?

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Speaker 1: Go wafers like old timey kind of like chalky candy

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Speaker 1: that comes in a role you've seen them. Probably you've

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Speaker 1: seen them in my old timey candy days exactly. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure I did. Uh So all right, I guess we

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Speaker 1: should talk a little bit about uh, Like you said, um,

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Speaker 1: it's orange. It's origins in the Napo River basin by

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Speaker 1: this Runa tribe like you said, Uh, And it's called

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Speaker 1: the Vine of Death or the mother Vine. This copy

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Speaker 1: and they think that early on they may have just

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Speaker 1: taken this copy by itself, right, because the brew it's

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Speaker 1: got the harmlins in it that's not only an m

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Speaker 1: A o I but also has like its own kind

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Speaker 1: of psychoactive stuff going on. So that was the original Iowa. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we have written accounts from like the seventeen hundreds

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Speaker 1: when Jesuits would go to the Amazon to try and

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Speaker 1: you know, christianize folks and trip balls. Yeah, because I'm

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Speaker 1: sure the entry was like whoa, and that's it. Did

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Speaker 1: you hear about the guy that was just killed the missionary? Yes?

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Speaker 1: On setting Ali's sent in All Island. Yeah, he it's

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Speaker 1: like something from a movie. He went at first and

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Speaker 1: a child shot an arrow through a bible that he

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Speaker 1: was holding. Apparently I hadn't heard about that. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: he had. He went back a few times and was

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Speaker 1: like journaling about it and said he basically like held

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Speaker 1: up his Bible. It's like something from a movie and

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Speaker 1: an arrow was shot through it. And I'm like, dude,

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Speaker 1: if that is not like, if you believe in God,

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Speaker 1: that's a sign from God. Well you you remember the

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Speaker 1: turnaround the man in the whole episode we talked about them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were the ones that like you, like everyone knew

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Speaker 1: you just don't go anywhere near him and did some

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Speaker 1: fishermen and killed like years a few years back, and

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Speaker 1: this guy I guess had tried um. He decided he

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Speaker 1: was going to be the one. Yeah. I don't actually

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Speaker 1: know enough about the story, but he clearly was trying

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Speaker 1: to jane access to them. Yeah. Yeah, he was trying

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Speaker 1: to spread the word of Jesus and paid like you're

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Speaker 1: not supposed it's illegal, I think, to even trespass there.

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Speaker 1: But he paid people sort of under the table to

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Speaker 1: take him there, and they did so, and those people

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Speaker 1: were arrested and his family is saying, you need to

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Speaker 1: let these people go because he like really wanted to

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Speaker 1: do this. I see. It's very interesting. Yeah it is.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy, but I just like that sounds like something

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Speaker 1: you would make up from a movie, like shooting an

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Speaker 1: arrow through the Bible they're holding up, you know. Uh

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Speaker 1: So we got a little sidetrack, but we were talking

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Speaker 1: about the Jesuits like having this on record in the

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Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds when they went and they were like, hey,

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Speaker 1: there's something going down down here. That's very interesting. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And even William S. Burrows wrote the Yahee Letters in

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Speaker 1: three and it was about his experience with the Aahuascar vine.

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Speaker 1: And apparently they the practitioners at the time knew, um

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Speaker 1: well into the to the the twentieth century, that you

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Speaker 1: could combine it with the p veritis fine and and

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Speaker 1: have a completely different experience. But that wasn't necessarily the point.

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Speaker 1: That was like an optional ceremony you could perform. But

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Speaker 1: the most, the most widespread and traditional ceremony was just

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Speaker 1: the vine of death, right. Yeah. And then at some

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Speaker 1: point somebody started putting him together and word about this

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Speaker 1: got out, and the mid two thousand's is when it

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Speaker 1: just ayahuasca like kind of hit the public consciousness in

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Speaker 1: the West. Yeah. I mean in the sixties, of course,

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Speaker 1: uh in in certain uh you know, subcultures in America.

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Speaker 1: They knew about it because of william S Burrows and

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Speaker 1: people seeking out you know, things like peyote and all

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Speaker 1: kinds of psychedelic experiences, but it definitely was not sort

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Speaker 1: of in the stream until you know, not not too

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Speaker 1: long ago. And even still I think even at the

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Speaker 1: time it was strictly the harm alines and and just

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Speaker 1: the the vine that was being used, the copy vine.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't. It wasn't. Somebody started putting it together frequently

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Speaker 1: with the the veritas plant, and that's when it became

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Speaker 1: hugely popular. Yeah, so popular now that there is ayahuasca

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Speaker 1: tourism big time like going on in South America. And

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Speaker 1: uh said the central part is Peru's uh a room

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Speaker 1: bomba valley. And if you, I mean, if you were

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Speaker 1: going down for an ayahuasca experience like a spiritual quest,

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Speaker 1: is is the reason you're going down there? I don't

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Speaker 1: fault you for that at all, um, But you have

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Speaker 1: to understand the the You have to do your research.

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Speaker 1: You can't just show up in South America and be like,

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Speaker 1: all right, somebody give me some ayahuasca. Because there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of um in scrupulous and nefarious outfits that

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Speaker 1: have come up to to take advantage explicitly of that

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Speaker 1: kind of Western tourist, the ill informed Western tourist who

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Speaker 1: is going to have a horrible, terrible trip and not

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Speaker 1: going to get the spiritual experience you're looking for. Um So,

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Speaker 1: you have to do your research because there are some

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Speaker 1: legitimate ayahuasca outfits in South America, but you, um, they're

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Speaker 1: they're not going to take you if you just show

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Speaker 1: up down there, and you're gonna end up in some

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Speaker 1: some in a bad situation. Yeah for sure. Um So,

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Speaker 1: taking part in one of these ceremonies, let's say you

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Speaker 1: do find like a legit shaman who's willing to take

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Speaker 1: your American dollars or whatever, however you're paying your gold

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Speaker 1: en gets and drink its. Uh, it's still it's sort

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Speaker 1: of funny. It all goes back to Burrows with the

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Speaker 1: set and setting thing, which is what he famously preached

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Speaker 1: about any psychic dellic experience is to really put a

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Speaker 1: lot of thought into the set in the setting where

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Speaker 1: you're gonna do this, so it goes well for you.

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Speaker 1: Um So, as this uh concoction is being brewed, like

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Speaker 1: I said before, sometimes you're taking part in this and

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Speaker 1: helping to mash it up and brew the t um.

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Speaker 1: But what they're really trying to do is, um, the

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Speaker 1: whole ceremony isn't just like for show. It's it's all

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Speaker 1: part of the thing to get you settled in and

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Speaker 1: focused on kind of the right things going in, Like

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Speaker 1: what do you want to accomplish here, what do you

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Speaker 1: want to find out about yourself? What questions do you

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Speaker 1: have about yourself? And really get into that that frame

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Speaker 1: of mind as they hand you your puke bucket. Although

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Speaker 1: I would recommend bringing your own, Oh yeah, I hadn't

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Speaker 1: thought about that. I would not want to reused puke bucket.

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Speaker 1: Good lord. I hadn't even considered that it would be

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Speaker 1: by O B for me, So um yeah, I can

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Speaker 1: just totally see how as a as a Westerner, you

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Speaker 1: would just be like, come on, we don't need the

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Speaker 1: ceremony stuff. Let's just give me the good stuff. But that,

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Speaker 1: like you said, that's the point is to ease you

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Speaker 1: into it, to get your mind and body prepared for this,

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Speaker 1: this enormous trip you're about to go on, because if

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Speaker 1: you just get dropped right in the middle of it

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Speaker 1: without any kind of preparation or without any kind of assistance,

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Speaker 1: you're going to lose your marbles pretty pretty well. UM.

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Speaker 1: So that that is a big part of going on

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Speaker 1: an ayahuasca journey is is having somebody who's competent, trained

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Speaker 1: and UM, empathetic and willing to stay there with you,

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Speaker 1: to prepare you, to stay with you, to keep an

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Speaker 1: eye on you. You need to be monitored. You can't

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Speaker 1: be up and like just running off into the jungle

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Speaker 1: by yourself, because terrible things are going to happen to

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Speaker 1: you in that situation. UM. And then to help you

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Speaker 1: afterward as well, and from from some of the preliminary

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Speaker 1: research that's starting to come in, if you undertake an

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Speaker 1: ayahuasca journey, I guess is that it's the best word

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Speaker 1: I can come up with. UM. Under the right setting,

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Speaker 1: under the right guidance, with the right support, both pre

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Speaker 1: during and after, it can have profound effects on your

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Speaker 1: spirituality and your sense of connectedness to the universe. It

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Speaker 1: can also possibly help you with UM with diagnosed mental

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Speaker 1: illness as well. Yeah, well we'll get to the illness

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Speaker 1: part mental illness part at the end, but UM, just

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Speaker 1: your standard sort of truth seeker, let's say, okay, UM,

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Speaker 1: it's very much tight into like what the and ideal

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Speaker 1: conditions and like the sixties and seventies with Ellis and

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Speaker 1: Guess beyond, but the LSD experience and that. Uh, there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of talk in the sixties about the

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Speaker 1: ego and every you know, hip musician and in the

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Speaker 1: United States talked about stripping away the ego, from Brian

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Speaker 1: Wilson to the Mamas and the Papa's too, you know

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Speaker 1: Neil Young. Uh is stripping away that ego of self basically,

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Speaker 1: which which means kind of getting outside yourself to the

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Speaker 1: point where, uh, you're not looking at the world around

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Speaker 1: you and how it affects you, but there there is

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Speaker 1: no you. There is no It's a loss of self

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Speaker 1: such that's so profound that you can only see the

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Speaker 1: world and people around you as they exist in reality. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a pretty sort of deep, trippy thing to

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Speaker 1: try and describe in words on a podcast, But I

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Speaker 1: think that's sort of the general thing is is uh

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Speaker 1: washing that ego down to where it's not around anymore

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Speaker 1: and you get like a true sense of the world

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Speaker 1: around you, like for the maybe for the first time. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the the ego in and of itself isn't a

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Speaker 1: bad thing like it's it's they think that it developed

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Speaker 1: among animals. Is a like, that's your sense of self awareness.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing that leads you to want to preserve

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Speaker 1: your own life, to get away from danger, to realize that, like,

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Speaker 1: you can die because there is a you, right, It's

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Speaker 1: a very basic thing. Um. The problem is is in humans,

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Speaker 1: as we've evolved, our ego has also evolved, and it

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Speaker 1: can get to a point where it's unhealthy. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of toxic. It can help you develop bad, bad relationships,

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Speaker 1: people don't want to be around you. It can also

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Speaker 1: affect your self esteem if your egos underdeveloped. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of problems that can go wrong with the ego,

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Speaker 1: and so a lot of people who prescribe psychedelics to

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Speaker 1: deal with that kind of thing say, psychedelics strip away

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Speaker 1: the ego. And now that we've gotten to the point

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Speaker 1: where where we are advanced enough as a civilization that

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Speaker 1: we can give people acid and put them in the

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Speaker 1: an MRI machine, the Wonder machine and watch what happens,

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Speaker 1: we've shown that, Yes, it seems like the the areas

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Speaker 1: that are responsible for generating the ego, don't they get

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Speaker 1: kind of turned off while you're under the influence of psychedelics,

403
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Speaker 1: and it allows you to connect, to see outside of yourself,

404
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Speaker 1: to see that you are connected with all of this

405
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Speaker 1: other stuff. So this whole ego depletion or ego stripping, UM,

406
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Speaker 1: it's a major component of not just ayahuasca but all psychedelics.

407
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Speaker 1: But it is a big it's a big reason why

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Speaker 1: people undertake ayahuasca UM journeys. Again. But get this, Siss,

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Speaker 1: there was something I hadn't realized before, Chuck, So that

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Speaker 1: from those m r I studies, they found that, UM,

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Speaker 1: there's something called the default mode network, which is the

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Speaker 1: thing that keeps your body humming and keeps your It's

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Speaker 1: the part of your brain that's going while you're not

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Speaker 1: thinking right, And they found that when the default mode

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Speaker 1: network is suppressed and your frontal cortex is activated, that's

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Speaker 1: when it seems that your um, your ego is at

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Speaker 1: the least, it's when your egos turned off and you're

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Speaker 1: free to connect with the universe or whatever. Right. Well,

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Speaker 1: that default mode network is a very primitive part of

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Speaker 1: our brain. It's a very primitive system of our brain,

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Speaker 1: and it kind of suggests in a way that the

422
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: loss of ego is something that we may eventually evolve to.

423
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,120
Speaker 1: Isn't that cool? Because if your frontal cortex is what's

424
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: being activated in your default mode network is inactivated, that's

425
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 1: like your ancient brain and your evolved brain. One's activated

426
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: and one's one's suppressed and your egos gone. That that

427
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: says to me like, well, yeah, if we keep evolving

428
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: a frontal cortex, I wonder if we'll lose our ego

429
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: at some point, or at least it will be radically altered. Interesting,

430
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: I thought so too. Yeah, so what can happen? Uh?

431
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: You know, like like any sort of psychedelic trip, it's

432
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 1: going to be completely um singular to the person that's

433
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: doing it. There is no across the board sort of

434
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 1: sweeping statements you can make. But um, you strip away

435
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: that ego and anything can happen. From feeling connected to

436
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 1: the more connected to the universe or the earth or

437
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,959
Speaker 1: the tree, or leaning against or maybe the father that

438
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: passed away when you were a child that you didn't

439
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: have a relationship with, or the loved one that you

440
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: currently have a toxic relationship with. You can feel sort

441
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: of a not imaginary but it is in your mind,

442
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: but a bond and that they're not like right there

443
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: in front of you, Um, just new understandings of relationships

444
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: that may be complicated or toxic in your life, right exactly,

445
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: like you're you're you're seeing them in a different way

446
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: because of the ego loss. Yeah, yeah, I think that's fascinating. Um.

447
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: And like you said, it is symbolic death of the ego,

448
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: which is why that vomiting is important. Like in theory,

449
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 1: I guess you're you're vomiting up that ego and then

450
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: it's go time. Um. Apparently you can hallucinate your death. Uh.

451
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 1: And like you said before, it's not often looked at

452
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 1: it's like, hey man, this is this is gonna be

453
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 1: a great time. Um. But at the same time, I

454
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: think it's also typically not like looked at as like

455
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,959
Speaker 1: some horror show that you're about to undergo. Um, although

456
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: it can be. But it's just a profound emotional and

457
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:13,360
Speaker 1: psychological experience exactly. I've never done it, I mean either,

458
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 1: but this is from researching it, right exactly, which is

459
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 1: like we've never been to the sun either. But we

460
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: talked about that. Yeah, that went great. Actually, now that

461
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: you mentioned it, should use a different example. Uh, let's

462
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: take another break, and then we'll talk about what you

463
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: kind of teased earlier with um uh ahuashka and how

464
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: it could be used to treat addiction or PTSD or

465
00:28:34,280 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: other mental illnesses. Right after this, Okay, Chuck, So we're

466
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: back and we're talking about using ayahuasca as a tool

467
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: like taking that experience of being outside of yourself have

468
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: connected to the rest of the universe of reevaluating your

469
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: life in a lot of ways to cure mental illness UM.

470
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: And one of the things that it's been I guess

471
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: some studies have actually shown like now this this actually

472
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: works is to treat addiction um, whether it's cigarettes or

473
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: booze or drugs or whatever, that that you can undergo

474
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: an ayahuasca ceremony. People have and have come out on

475
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: the other side like I'm good, I don't need that

476
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: the cigarettes or booze or drugs or whatever. Yeah. And

477
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: one of the one of the suggestions for what's going

478
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: on with this that I saw is that you are

479
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: actually healing the psychic damage that's causing you to self

480
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: medicate in the first place, something probably from your past,

481
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: and then so you with with that need to self

482
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: medicate you don't have necessarily the desire to drink or

483
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: smoke cigarettes or whatever that you used to, which is

484
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: a different model of addiction that's kind of starting to

485
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: gain a little bit of traction, but is also very

486
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: controversial because it makes it sound like addiction is a choice,

487
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: but you're self medicating, You're choosing to do all those

488
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: drugs and like throw your life away because of some

489
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: psychic trauma. But there there does seem to be a

490
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: camp in in medicine that is saying like this actually

491
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: might have legs. It kind of makes a lot of sense,

492
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: and from what I can tell, those ayahuasca studies kind

493
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: of are a checkmark in that view's favor. Yeah, and

494
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: I think that can work in conjunction with the other piece,

495
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: which is removing that ego. Even if it's for whatever

496
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: how many hours that you're undergoing this trip um could

497
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: just simply disrupt that. You know, you often hear about

498
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: addiction being like this sort of cycle, like a cyclical

499
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: thing um, and even just disrupting that sick coal path

500
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: of that circular path um can be enough to sort

501
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: of get you on the off ramp, uh from using Yeah,

502
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: get you on the off ramp gets you yeah, on

503
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: the off ramp. Yes, that's how you said, right, yeah,

504
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: and then eventually off that off ramp onto a nice

505
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: chill side street. Yeah, and maybe a nice drive into

506
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: the country past a few cows and then sleep. Yeah.

507
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: I had a at a therapist one time that talked

508
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: about getting off of the highway. It was a metaphor

509
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: that actually worked for me. But like choosing to get

510
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: off the highway when certain things were happening, and sometimes

511
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: something that simple is just kind of clicks in, like, oh,

512
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: if I notice something's going on, I'm speeding down the

513
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: highway towards the badness, and just get on that exit

514
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: ramp and now I'm in my neighborhood. I'm hanging out

515
00:31:53,880 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: with cows in a nice pasture. PTSD is another specifically,

516
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times with military PTSD UM

517
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: they've been, you know, using psychedelics more and more in

518
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: Ayahuasca is no stranger to this treatment, and UM, while

519
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: it is not a magic pill, they are doing some

520
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: studies on this and it seems like, uh, and like

521
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: with all these is tough to get funding for these

522
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: kind of studies sometimes, but it does seem like it's

523
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: gaining more ground in the medical community to try out

524
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: these kind of experiments. Well, they're trying, like how to

525
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: get some of these studies underway in the United States,

526
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: but because ayahuasca is considered a Schedule one drug, which

527
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: is the the worst, most nefarious drugs of all, UM,

528
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: they can't. They just I don't think there's been a

529
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: single study in the US. But fortunately they can just

530
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: go down to South America and do the best they

531
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: can with some of the Ayahuascar centers that are down there,

532
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: and they're like, again, there are some legitimate Ayahuascar centers

533
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: that take Western tourists for ayahuasca journeys. UM, and some

534
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: groups are are going down their departner with those centers

535
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: to study people, and some of the people they're trying

536
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 1: to study our PTSD patients, and they think that if

537
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: ayahuasca is helping people with PTSD, which it seems to be,

538
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: it's it's basically negative exposure therapy where you're dredging up

539
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: all of those worst, your worst memories that are causing

540
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: your PTSD, which is bringing them to the surface and

541
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: allowing your awareness to kind of shine a light on

542
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: them and say, okay, I'm going to recategorize these now

543
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: and they're not being categorized as bad and and frightening

544
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: as they were before. It's not as traumatic as as

545
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: they were originally categorized. Yeah, and and specifically in this

546
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: study that you're thinking about, is uh Or talking about

547
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: his combat veterans suffering from PTSD and it's the Temple

548
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: of the Way of Light uh And the Amazon has

549
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: partnered with a group in Spain and the UK, the

550
00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: International Center for Ethnobotanical Research and Service and PANE and

551
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: then the Beckley Foundation in the UK, and they're treating

552
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: close to six combat veterans a year and it says

553
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 1: it's the largest psychedelic study um ever undertaken. So yeah,

554
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: it's really interesting. Yeah, I know that they're using um

555
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: M d M A to treat PTSD as well. And

556
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: then I can't remember the name of that one treatment.

557
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,959
Speaker 1: But remember you like follow a pen with your eyes

558
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: while you're going over your worst memory, and it it

559
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: recategorizes the memories, is less scary. I want to remember

560
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: that one. Yeah, I can't remember what we talked about

561
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: it And but that apparently works really well too, so

562
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: without the vomiting, that's a big part of it though,

563
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: my friend just bring your own bucket. Uh. Problems with ayahuasca. Um,

564
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: it is not generally toxic and you would have to

565
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: take so much ayahuasca sort of like when we were

566
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 1: talking about marijuana, Like is there even a lethal dose?

567
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 1: Can you even say that? Because the lethal dose apparently

568
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: for aguasca is twenty times what you had normally taken

569
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:07,439
Speaker 1: a typical ceremony. Uh as the grabster put it, or

570
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: uh he might have been quoting someone, but it's uh,

571
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: could could anyone even choke this much of that down? Right? Probably? Not?

572
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: Is that even possible? But there have been I mean,

573
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 1: there have been some deaths that have been related to ayahuasca,

574
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: and and when you dig a little deeper you find like, oh,

575
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: it wasn't actually the ayahuasca directly that caused this, but

576
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: the people would not have died had they not been

577
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: in South America on the ayahuasca journey, right. Yeah, There's

578
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: this one guy who, um who died in I believe

579
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: two thousand fourteen. He was an American, you know, he's British,

580
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, and his name was Henry Miller. And he

581
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: died on the way to the hospital because he gone

582
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: kind of non responsive and the Iowa squeros Ia Iowa square. Yeah,

583
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: I said, um that took him to the hospital, had

584
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: him on a motorcycle. He fell off the motorcycle and

585
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 1: died of a head injury on the way to the hospital.

586
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: So it wasn't the ayahuasca that killed him. But he

587
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been on the motorcycle in the first place

588
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 1: had he not been on this aahuasca trip. So the

589
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: shorthand and the headlines is a man dies from ayahuasca. Yeah.

590
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: There have been some other cases where like people would

591
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 1: be having a bad trip and maybe attack someone else

592
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: and that would lead to like violence or death or

593
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 1: just this year in two thousand eighteen in Peru, um

594
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: an eighty one year old shaman woman was shot and killed. Uh,

595
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: and then a Canadian man was murdered for revenge for

596
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: that killing. But supposedly this had nothing to do with

597
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: like being under the influence, but it was some sort

598
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,760
Speaker 1: of dispute that happened during this this whole conflict. Yeah.

599
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: The woman was named Olivia are Avalo and she was

600
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: the spiritual mother of Peru's second largest indigenous tribe, the

601
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: Shapebo Canibo. And this guy, this Canadian guy named Sebastian

602
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 1: Woodruff shot and killed her, allegedly because um her son

603
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: owed him money. He was there to learn ayahuasca and

604
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: I guess he didn't feel like he'd gotten his money's worth,

605
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: so he killed her. He killed this this woman, the shaman,

606
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: the spiritual leader of the second largest tribe in in Peru,

607
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: and he was Canadian. Yes, yeah, I know it was surprising,

608
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,760
Speaker 1: not a very Canadian thing to do. No, it really wasn't.

609
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: But the the whole thing really revealed the problems that

610
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: that have been developing from this ayahuasca tourism. First, this

611
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: guy was down there and wanted to learn about ayahuasca

612
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,919
Speaker 1: so he could take it back to Canada and appropriate

613
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 1: this culture. There's problem one. Two, he didn't get his

614
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 1: money's worth, so he shot and killed the woman who

615
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,720
Speaker 1: was supposed to be teaching him. It's a big problem

616
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: as well. But then also between the Iowa squeros and

617
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 1: the practitioners who are are hosting these tourists, and then

618
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: the governments of the countries that they're hosting them in.

619
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: There's tensions there as well. Because this village said there's

620
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: police everywhere. The police never come here, but then a

621
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: Canadian man goes missing and now our village is overrun

622
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: with with police, like, what's the what's going on here? Um,

623
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,879
Speaker 1: So there's there's a lot of tension that's being there's

624
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,240
Speaker 1: a lot of simmering tension that's being heated by this

625
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: this Western ayahuasca tourism, and um, it's kind of largely

626
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 1: in part because it's unregulated, but also because a lot

627
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: of people going down there don't have respect for what

628
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: they're doing. And then also a lot of the people

629
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: who are popping up as Iowa squaros don't have any

630
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 1: respect for what they're doing either. So the the respect

631
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: that's been given to this this tradition for so many

632
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: hundreds or thousands of years being lost, and then on

633
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: top of that, the ayahuasca that they're they're drinking is

634
00:38:55,200 --> 00:39:00,399
Speaker 1: so wildly more potent than what traditionally is all those

635
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of years, you know, the Jesuits version

636
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 1: of ayahuasca. Um. That's really kind of I think fueling

637
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 1: this kind of recklessness that's that's becoming part and parcel

638
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: with ayahuasca used down in South America. Yeah, because some

639
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 1: of these areas are are poor and so all of

640
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: a sudden, it becomes a hip thing for uh, Westerners

641
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: with money to come down there with cold hard cash.

642
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: And then, like you said, they're appropriating their culture. So

643
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: that's one strike. But then to appeal to these people

644
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, they're not as like, you know,

645
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: we don't want to freak people out maybe by being

646
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:43,439
Speaker 1: too traditional, so we're gonna westernize our own methods a bit.

647
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: So and let's say, let's get a website going uh

648
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 1: and then we'll be the go to for when they

649
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: come down here. So then they're undermining their own culture. Um.

650
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: And it's just sort of becoming a big mess. It

651
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: sounds like yeah. And again I think like if you're

652
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: going down there, like whether you're Western or um Asian

653
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 1: or whoever you are, if you're going down for a

654
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: vision quest, that's not that's not what's being you know,

655
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: brought out as as the fault. The fault is if

656
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 1: you're if you're going down there because it's hip or

657
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,959
Speaker 1: because you just want to party, or because a friend

658
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 1: did it, um, and you're not you're not being respectful

659
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: of it. Then that's where the the issue seems to

660
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: be arising from ayahuasca anything else you know. Oh yeah,

661
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: there is one thing that we didn't cover, um, that

662
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: that can happen because the copy vine is a m

663
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: AO inhibitor. There's a lot of other things, um that

664
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 1: can actually kill you that are pretty normal, like interactions.

665
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: You can have drug interactions with things as normal as

666
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: chocolate because the um monoamine oxidase typically breaks these things down. Uh.

667
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,879
Speaker 1: And if it's being inhibited so that the ayahuasca can work,

668
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: it's effects you if you eat chocolate, your toast. And

669
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: one of the other things that that it can do

670
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: is so the motto the m A O ies prevent

671
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: your serotonin from being taken up. And that's how d

672
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: m T acts on the brain. It goes into where

673
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:23,280
Speaker 1: serotonin receptors normally fit and just says, let's party, right. Um.

674
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: So with all this extra serotonin floating around, if you

675
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: also happen to be on an s s r I

676
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: as serotonin reuptake inhibitor, uh, you've got too much serotonin.

677
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: You can go into what's called serotonin shock. This is

678
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: where the diarrhea comes in. That's one of the um

679
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: the symptoms of serotonin shock. But that's one of the

680
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: mild symptoms. You can also have seizures. You your heart

681
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: can also stop, and you can die from having too

682
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: much serotonin flooding your brain. So that's that is a

683
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: direct way you can die from ayahuasca. But it's not

684
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 1: from the hallucinogen, uh the aspect of it. It's from

685
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 1: the M A O I. So when they're when they

686
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,720
Speaker 1: show up from uh the Silicon Valley and they say

687
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: they're translating in there, like, hey, bro, he wants to

688
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: know if you've got anything, if you've had anything in

689
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: your body. And then you're like, no, just mine my

690
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: Selexa and a wolf down at Toblaron on the way up,

691
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 1: way over. I'm good, let's do this. Let's skip the ceremony.

692
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: Just let me drink that stuff, right you just yeah,

693
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: you mash the shaman's face out of your way, like

694
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: get out of here. Just give me that. I know.

695
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: I know why we haven't been selling tickets in Seattle

696
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 1: so much. Oh no, we love that's not Silicon Valley.

697
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 1: Oh that's right. I mean well San Francisco to we love.

698
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: We love all people. We love all of you, everybody.

699
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,359
Speaker 1: We love all potential ticket buyers are egos are are

700
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 1: down in the pits. Uh. If you want to know

701
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: more about ayahuasca, man, do some research. Uh. There's a

702
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 1: lot of it out there, so do it. Um. And

703
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 1: since I said that, it's time for a listener mail, Yeah,

704
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this short and sweet. But we did

705
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: get an answer to something ing. Uh remember in the

706
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:07,839
Speaker 1: fire Trucks episode, you could not remember that game and

707
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: we got everything from sim City to uh civilization. Yeah,

708
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: none of them were right. But our friend, our new pal,

709
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,959
Speaker 1: Mike man Goba, Mike says this, guys that just listened

710
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 1: to the fire Twuks episode and also shout out to

711
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: two things. All the people who wrote in and spelled

712
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: at fire Twucks. Yeah, and then all the firefighters. We

713
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: heard from a lot of firefighters and they all, every

714
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: single one of them said, yep, it's chili. Josh did

715
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: not overstate the chili thing. Yeah, And they're all very

716
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 1: nice and said, you guys got most of this right. Um.

717
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: Anytime it's something really specific like that, we're gonna get

718
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: some stuff wrong. But they're like, you guys did a

719
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: good job. And one of them even had a joke

720
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 1: that said, if you're at a party, how do you

721
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: know if there's a firefighter there, and the answer is, Oh,

722
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 1: don't worry, they'll tell you that was from a firefighter.

723
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: So I guess they have a sting game about it.

724
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: Uh So, anyway, guys listening to the fire TALKX episode,

725
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:07,720
Speaker 1: and he talked about the old game that burns buildings

726
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: to the ground if you don't have the fire station,

727
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:14,800
Speaker 1: and that game is called Pharaoh. Yes, Pharaoh yep e

728
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: h a r a o h yep, you're building an

729
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: Egyptian civilization camp. And he said it's an expansion game,

730
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: the expansion games called Cleopatra, and it was one of

731
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 1: my favorite games, which I still play today. Keep up

732
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 1: the chatter, Mike Man, go thanks a lot, Mike, That's

733
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: exactly what it was, and never in a million years

734
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:38,800
Speaker 1: would have remembered that, but it was. Indeed, Goes uh

735
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: oh is that what we're calling him? Yeah, all right,

736
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: thanks a lot, Goes. Well, if you want to be

737
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: like Gobs and rescue us by reminding me of something

738
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was, or just correcting my syntax,

739
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 1: you can get in touch with us. We're all over

740
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 1: social You can find those links at stuff you should

741
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: Know dot com and you can just send us an email,

742
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: wrap it ups to get on the bottom, and send

743
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: it off to Stuff Podcast superbs dot com. H Stuff

744
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:09,720
Speaker 1: you Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio.

745
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart

746
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

747
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 1: favorite shows. H