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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noel.

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Speaker 1: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 1: super producer Paul mission controlled decads. Most importantly, you are you,

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Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know. First, this is the first episode

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Speaker 1: we are recording. After we after we gave everybody a

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Speaker 1: bit of a surprise with our colleagues code named Doc

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Speaker 1: and Danish Schwartz giving us a fantastic exploration of the

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Speaker 1: terrible history between the US and why. Thank you to

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Speaker 1: everyone for tuning into that episode. If you haven't yet

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Speaker 1: check it out, immediately do it now and then come back.

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Speaker 1: We'll be here. It was a great episode. I really

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Speaker 1: really enjoyed it as a listener. So so yeah, huge

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Speaker 1: things and shout out to them and uh today's episode.

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Speaker 1: I thought an interesting way to begin this would be

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Speaker 1: to talk about UM, one of one of the most

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Speaker 1: famous sci fi fantasy series in history. Douglas Adams Hitchhiker's

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Speaker 1: Guide to the Galaxy. It's it's the kind of whimsy

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Speaker 1: that we might need to balance out today's story. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this is not a spoiler for the story, and as

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Speaker 1: you know, given the stuff they don't want you to

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Speaker 1: know policy on spoilers, this has been out long enough

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Speaker 1: that a spoiler warning need not apply anyhow, in a

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Speaker 1: way that doesn't have necessarily a huge impact on the plot.

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Speaker 1: There's a hapless character in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

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Speaker 1: named Rob McKenna. Rob McKenna is a taxi or lorry

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Speaker 1: driver who for his entire life has tried and failed

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Speaker 1: to get away from the rain that constantly follows him.

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Speaker 1: And he's got a little log book that proves it

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Speaker 1: has rained everywhere anytime he's been anywhere, no matter where

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Speaker 1: he goes, no matter what time of day it is.

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Speaker 1: And McKenna doesn't know that I know why this happens.

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Speaker 1: He thinks he's just cursed. It turns out that the

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Speaker 1: rain follows him for a reason. It's fantastic ongoing thread

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Speaker 1: in a fantastic series. And although Douglas Adams may not

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Speaker 1: have been aware of this, there may be a real

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Speaker 1: life example of a type of uh Rob McKenna, just

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Speaker 1: as hapless, if not as um so sweetly Wes Anderson

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Speaker 1: like wholesome. This real life rain Man, according to the story,

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Speaker 1: gets his path hours not from the divine, but from

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Speaker 1: the opposite of the divine, something unclean, something infernal, a

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Speaker 1: case of possession or a case of abuse from beyond

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Speaker 1: the grave, or or something else. Fellow conspiracy realist, today

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Speaker 1: we bring you the strange tale of Dawn Decker. Here

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Speaker 1: are the facts. In nineteen eighty three, which is I

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Speaker 1: think the year we were all born. No, okay, just

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Speaker 1: just hearing me, alright, sorry, man, a twenty one year

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Speaker 1: old man by the name of Don Decker was having

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Speaker 1: a really bad time. Uh. He was serving four to

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Speaker 1: ten months in the Monroe County Correctional Facility of Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: And that was because he had received stolen goods stolen property.

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Speaker 1: On February thirty eight years from this day, as we

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Speaker 1: sit here and record, he was given a furlough to

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Speaker 1: attend his grandfather's funeral, a man named James Kishaw who

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Speaker 1: lived in the same town where Decker was incarcerated. So

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Speaker 1: this was I mean, a funeral is often not a

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Speaker 1: happy event, right, at least we can agree the majority

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Speaker 1: of them are not supposed to be. This was going

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Speaker 1: to be somewhat of a personal milestone for Decker because

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Speaker 1: from a young age, and we're not too clear on

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Speaker 1: the specifics of this, but from a young age, his

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Speaker 1: grandfather had physically abused him. According to Decker, this began

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Speaker 1: when he was about seven years old, and in his mind,

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Speaker 1: the old man's death could lead him to a new

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Speaker 1: chapter in life, a fresh start. It could free him

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Speaker 1: from what he described as an evil that it haunted

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Speaker 1: him all his life. Like many victims of emotional or

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Speaker 1: I guess social or physical abuse, he had kept these

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Speaker 1: occurrences a secret, had not told people. So when he

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Speaker 1: went to the funeral, you know, he saw relatives and

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Speaker 1: especially his parents, talking about this man who had abused him,

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Speaker 1: in of course, the overly positive terms that people often

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Speaker 1: use for the newly dead. This funeral was an emotionally

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Speaker 1: exhausting experience for Decker. Understandably, right, while these things are true,

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Speaker 1: and seeing his parents talk about his grandfather and what

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Speaker 1: he felt were glowing, glorifying terms made him furious. It

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Speaker 1: had sensed him, and so after the funeral, he said,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna stay with my friends instead of

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Speaker 1: staying with my folks. I'm gonna stay with a couple

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Speaker 1: named Bob and Jeannie f Yeah, And like we said,

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Speaker 1: he's on furlough, so the police are aware of where

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Speaker 1: he is and it's not like he just went off.

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Speaker 1: He's there staying essentially under their custody. Important point, uh,

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Speaker 1: and I love that you brought You brought it back

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Speaker 1: to the furlough. Furlough is given for is only allowed

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Speaker 1: if you are a pretty exemplary uh inmate right or

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Speaker 1: obeying the rules in jail. So that means that we

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Speaker 1: know at this point nothing unusual had happened exactly. They

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Speaker 1: don't consider him a flight risk, They don't consider him

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Speaker 1: a danger to anybody, especially just you know, his friends

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Speaker 1: that he's going to go and stay with. They also

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Speaker 1: don't think the Keefers have anything fishy going on or

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Speaker 1: else that would have been an issue at least that

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Speaker 1: that would that would be the understanding unless there were

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Speaker 1: extenuating circumstances that we don't know about or cannot prove.

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Speaker 1: So the Keefers were renting a house. It was on

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Speaker 1: Ann Street there in the city and Uh, I just

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Speaker 1: really quickly. I always liked doing this and always like

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Speaker 1: talking about geography. But just so you know, where we

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Speaker 1: are really is near the Pocono Mountains. Right near where

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Speaker 1: this is taking place, there's the Pocono Mountains Visitors Bureau.

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Speaker 1: And you've heard people talk about the Poconos before the

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Speaker 1: Mountain Range, and this is I'm trying to look for

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Speaker 1: a nearby place. It's basically between Scranton, Pennsylvania and Allentown,

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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania kind of but to the northeast of Allentown. So

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Speaker 1: that's physically where we are there in this house on

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Speaker 1: Ann Street, and the night of the funeral, Deckers there

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Speaker 1: with his friends, the Keefers, and Decker is upstairs. He's

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Speaker 1: in the bathroom, at least according to the story, he's

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Speaker 1: like washing his hands, getting ready for dinner. And according

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Speaker 1: to him what he told to the keepers, uh, he

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Speaker 1: suddenly felt disoriented, felt very confused, and then he fell

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Speaker 1: down to the floor and according to him, was given

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Speaker 1: some visions, some strange visions, including a king. You will

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Speaker 1: get into it well, well if the way he says,

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Speaker 1: is a man with a crown, which kind of like

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Speaker 1: a Russian law about anyone who happens to the president.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, he had these He had these visions. Uh,

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Speaker 1: he felt disoriented and confused. And that's something that a

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Speaker 1: lot of people report when they have visions for caused

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Speaker 1: by any number of medical or cognitive situations. According to Decker,

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Speaker 1: and you can see video by the way of him

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Speaker 1: describing this, and we'll we'll talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: the shows that widely publicized or popularized this story. According

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Speaker 1: to him, scratches appeared unbidden upon his wrist. He rejoined

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Speaker 1: the keepers. He seems oddly subdued. Think of Jack Nicholson

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Speaker 1: as the Overlook Hotel is slowly getting it's its um

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Speaker 1: psychic talents into his mind. Yeah, almost almost understated hypnosis.

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Speaker 1: And he sits down to eat. Picture him. We're editorializing

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Speaker 1: a little bit picture moving kind of robotically, going through

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Speaker 1: the motions. You can attribute this a lot to the

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Speaker 1: grief of losing a family member, even if it's one

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Speaker 1: you didn't particularly care for, the shock of going to

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Speaker 1: a funeral. His pal Keeper notices Bob Keeper, that is,

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Speaker 1: notices the blood when Decker sits down to eat, and

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Speaker 1: like any friend would say, he asked what happened? What

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Speaker 1: happened to you. H Decker tells him about this vision,

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Speaker 1: this man in a crown reflected in a window that

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Speaker 1: does not physically appear to be in the bathroom with him. Uh,

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Speaker 1: he's got the scratches, which he attributes to Satan, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of small talk. I could probably have a dinner,

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Speaker 1: right yeah, yeah, but and you can imagine to some

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Speaker 1: evil presence. That's what he's attributing to. But in his

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Speaker 1: mind it's that would be Satan, right right, and that's

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Speaker 1: an important division so or differentiation. So a few minutes later,

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Speaker 1: the family, here's this loud, kind of banging noise from above,

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Speaker 1: and they noticed that water is dripping from the walls

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Speaker 1: and the ceiling. That's fun. Something similar happened, uh at

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Speaker 1: my daughter's mom's house the other nice she had a

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Speaker 1: friend sleepover, and they didn't realize the toilet was just

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Speaker 1: constantly overflowing, and nobody noticed until water literally started seeping through, uh,

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Speaker 1: into into her mom's closet and roomined all of her clothes.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, Immediately, the first thing your mind would go

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Speaker 1: to is, Okay, there's a nasty, nasty plumbing problem, something catastrophic,

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Speaker 1: and you're scrambling to like figure out where it's coming

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Speaker 1: from and and stop it. Right, but this seems to

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Speaker 1: be something different. Yeah, there's never a good time for

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Speaker 1: plumbing problem, as anybody who's experienced one can assure you,

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Speaker 1: especially homeowners uh and plumbers as well. It's because a

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Speaker 1: burst pipe, depending on its location, can become very expensive,

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Speaker 1: very quickly. So Bob Key for uh, he and he

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Speaker 1: and his partner are renting this structure, so they immediately

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Speaker 1: phone their landlord. And this is you know, like this,

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Speaker 1: they're not renting from some big complex or company. They

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Speaker 1: know the guy. His name is really cool. Actually it's

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Speaker 1: Ron van Y w h y. That's really cool. And

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Speaker 1: you know, all the homeowners that are listening right now

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Speaker 1: are going, oh, thank god they're renting, right, because it

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Speaker 1: really is expensive. But Ron of course doesn't feel the

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Speaker 1: same way because he owns the house. So so he

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Speaker 1: goes over immediately, let's get on the case, and the

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Speaker 1: two guys set off to investigate what they naturally assumed

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Speaker 1: to be leaking pipes. Uh. Of course, plumbing problems are

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Speaker 1: are likely on the rise at this time. Again, it's February.

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Speaker 1: In it's February, and Pennsylvania here. There has been a

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Speaker 1: storm earlier, so if the pipes are old enough, you know,

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Speaker 1: they may have burst, they may have had problems with

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Speaker 1: freezing and so on. But eventually, pretty quickly they realize

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Speaker 1: something that the police will also later realize. All of

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Speaker 1: the plumbing just it goes to the kitchen in the bathroom,

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Speaker 1: and they're on the other side of the house from

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Speaker 1: where this leak is occurring. Like the whole plumbing system,

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Speaker 1: the whole circulatory system of the house, it's all towards

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Speaker 1: the back of the structure. The second decker appears to

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Speaker 1: have progressed from being kind of out of it an

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Speaker 1: oddly calm maybe in shock, to a full on trance state.

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Speaker 1: This guy is in something meditative or approaching catattic. This

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Speaker 1: prompts Keeper to call the police and think about it

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Speaker 1: from Bob's perspective. You know, yes, this is your friend.

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Speaker 1: Your friend is technically on vacation from jail, so you

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Speaker 1: want to be as above board as possible. Uh. The leaks, however,

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Speaker 1: are continuing. At the same time they appear to be

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Speaker 1: increasing at a worrying pace. Where the hell is all

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Speaker 1: this water coming from? This is the question, right, where

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Speaker 1: is the water coming from. And I want to jump

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Speaker 1: back to this concept that all of the plumbing is

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Speaker 1: on the other side of the house. And it's simply

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Speaker 1: because I'm I'm imagining them sitting downstairs and then hearing

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Speaker 1: that bang that that you demonstrated, Ben, that that loud

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Speaker 1: banging from above them. I'm a iagining the Keefers and

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Speaker 1: know where the bathroom is in location to them above them, right,

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Speaker 1: you've probably been on a second floor before, if you're

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Speaker 1: aware of it, you know where the bathrooms kind of

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Speaker 1: are in relation to you. If they believed that that

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Speaker 1: sound came from the bathroom or from the plumbing in

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Speaker 1: the bathroom, you imagine they would, you know, look to

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Speaker 1: the place and and think about it in being in

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Speaker 1: that general area and if that occurs, and you know,

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Speaker 1: depending on where the bank came from, because we don't

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Speaker 1: I don't have an exact you know, like geolocation of

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Speaker 1: was it above them and to the right, was it

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Speaker 1: above them to the left, but then the water was

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Speaker 1: coming down from the right, I don't have We don't

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Speaker 1: have that information necessarily, but it just made it. It

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Speaker 1: made it more curious to me. The fact that the

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Speaker 1: plumbing is way over there in the skeletal structure of

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Speaker 1: the house. Really, what I'm wondering is where did the

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Speaker 1: bang originate and where was the plumbing and where they

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Speaker 1: definitely into completely different places. I don't know. It's a question,

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Speaker 1: and it's one that uh, it's one that isn't specifically

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Speaker 1: explored even in the subsequent attempts at a police report.

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Speaker 1: The cavalry arrives first. There are two officers on the scene,

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Speaker 1: officers John bow Jean and Richard Woolbert. By this point,

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Speaker 1: from their accounts, water just wasn't just leaking within the house,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of streaming down the walls or whatever. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In fact, Bob Kiefer and Ron Van why when the

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Speaker 1: police showed up, they got they were at a loss

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Speaker 1: to explain what was happening. They were saying, okay, look

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Speaker 1: just come in here, just coming you gotta see it

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Speaker 1: for yourself. It's weird. We need help. And the police

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Speaker 1: decided to enter the premises and what they found inside

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Speaker 1: is less like a bunch of leaks. From everything they

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Speaker 1: could tell, it was literally raining inside the house. No,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily a torrential downpour, but the water appeared not

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Speaker 1: just to be obeying the patterns of rain you would

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Speaker 1: see outside. It appeared to be uh. There appeared to

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Speaker 1: be violations of the laws of physics inside the house.

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Speaker 1: The old rules no longer applied. This stuff was falling

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Speaker 1: upward from the floor. Yeah, I mean it was the

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Speaker 1: There were reports from the scene that it was literally

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Speaker 1: defying gravity. Uh. And and there was no uh discernible

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Speaker 1: source for the leak, for the of a leak, in

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Speaker 1: the existence of a leak, of the of the water

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Speaker 1: appeared to just be kind of being summoned in some

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Speaker 1: weird way. It was only happening in the living room though,

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Speaker 1: So it was like this localized like storm cloud like

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Speaker 1: you see in the cartoons. Um. And the police were

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Speaker 1: absolutely at a loss, as I mean, this isn't something

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Speaker 1: that they're they're really equipped to deal with to the

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Speaker 1: police left the scene because they had to figure out

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Speaker 1: how to summarize all this craziness and some semblance of

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Speaker 1: you know, UM report that wouldn't get them fired, I guess. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then the keepers went with Don Decker to a

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Speaker 1: nearby restaurant. So the landlord Ron than Why called his

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Speaker 1: wife Romaine fantastic name, um, and she joined him at

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Speaker 1: the house and they stuck around while everyone else left,

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Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, the rain stopped as

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Speaker 1: quickly as it had begun. Yeah. Either the It's interesting

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Speaker 1: to one detail I'm wondering about this is whether the police,

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Speaker 1: the tenants definitely the homeowner. Surely someone immediately said let's

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Speaker 1: turn off the water, right, that's step number one. But

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Speaker 1: that's not really that's not a detail that's really reported

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Speaker 1: in this story here. Well, yeah, and that's the thing.

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Speaker 1: Ron and Romayne know that house, right, They know the

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Speaker 1: ins and outs of that house, where the pipes are.

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Speaker 1: They've probably had to fix things in the past. You

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Speaker 1: would imagine, like, really, what I want is more info

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Speaker 1: from those two, and I wish we had more of that.

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Speaker 1: There may be a reason we don't. Uh. This restaurant

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Speaker 1: across the street is a pizzeria. It's owned by a lady.

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Speaker 1: At the time, it's home by lady named Pam Scrafano,

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Speaker 1: and she also gives interviews on video about this Everyone

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Speaker 1: we've named so far is on video at some point

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Speaker 1: talking about this story or appearing to talk about this story.

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Speaker 1: The program unsolved mysteries which some of some of us

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Speaker 1: in the audience today may have loved as much as

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Speaker 1: I did in younger years. Unsolved Mysteries has Scrafano on

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Speaker 1: the on this episode talking about how she earlier gone

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Speaker 1: to the Keefer's house, Like, clearly this pizzaio was their cheers.

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Speaker 1: It's right across the street. They serve pizza, they probably

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Speaker 1: have beer. What more do you want from life? And

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Speaker 1: uh so she knew these folks. She had apparently already

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Speaker 1: went across the street earlier to look at this bizarre

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Speaker 1: meteorological phenomenon. Micro meteorological phenomenon, will work on it. Uh

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Speaker 1: And when she saw when she saw the Keepers and

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Speaker 1: Don arrive, apparently rain started falling in the restaurant too.

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Speaker 1: She looked at Don's odd behavior. He was still very

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Speaker 1: out of it. And I imagine this is my speculation here, folks,

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Speaker 1: but I imagine what happened. His dinner was ruined at

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Speaker 1: the keeper house. And they decided that regardless of the

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Speaker 1: chaotic universe in which they live, they still wanted to

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Speaker 1: get something to eat. Uh So, so they had gone

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Speaker 1: to a pizza restaurant with a very weird vibe. Pam

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Speaker 1: is freaking out. She goes to the cash register, where

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Speaker 1: she retrieves across the symbol of Christianity, and she tries

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Speaker 1: to give the cross to down and he can't hold it.

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Speaker 1: He claims it burns his hand. Pam, being of a

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Speaker 1: somewhat religious bent, feels like she's cracked the case. She

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Speaker 1: tells the keepers they need to take him to a

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Speaker 1: church for the process of performing an exorcism. While we

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Speaker 1: do not know the specifics of the conversation that followed,

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Speaker 1: we know that instead of going to a church immediately,

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Speaker 1: they went home, probably because a lot of churches are

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Speaker 1: closed at that time. Right. Well, yeah, and they just

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Speaker 1: ruined a ton of pizza. Let me think about how

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Speaker 1: bad is soggy pizza. Nobody wants that. Nobody wants to

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Speaker 1: that as a party foul. To be sure, all of this,

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Speaker 1: by the way, is is delightfully recreated in that Unsolved

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Speaker 1: Mysteries episode. It's during like the golden age of Unsolved

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Speaker 1: Mystery where like Robert Stack's hair is just perfect, and

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Speaker 1: like the experts that are on this particular episode, one

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Speaker 1: of them looks like a sort of a miniature Ringo star.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember the guy's name, he's he's one of

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Speaker 1: the investigators that we're going to get to one of

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Speaker 1: the two, so I don't remember which one he was exactly,

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Speaker 1: but he almost looks like um Andy Circus in like

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Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings, but with like a ringo star

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Speaker 1: like goatee, perfectly quafft and like a bun. It's it's

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Speaker 1: something to behold. And then you know the thing that's

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Speaker 1: about to happen next, also beautifully dramatized. Remain Uh confronts

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Speaker 1: Decker as he is in this like trance like state,

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Speaker 1: like a fugue state. Uh. And then she tries to,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, settle him down or kind of talk

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Speaker 1: him down. Pots and pants start banging around the kitchen,

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Speaker 1: classic possession one on one type stuff. And then they

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Speaker 1: claim and again it's beautifully done. And then the show

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Speaker 1: that Decker began to levitate off the floor as the

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Speaker 1: cacophonous sounds of pots and pans clanging and banging around

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Speaker 1: began to increase to a fever pitch. Then and and

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Speaker 1: seeing you might recognize from the movie The Exorcist, Uh,

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Speaker 1: these unseen you know things start slashing at Decker's skin,

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Speaker 1: and these you know, cuts or or scrap to start

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Speaker 1: to open up all over him as he's supposedly levitating

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Speaker 1: there and they form the shape of a cross allegedly

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Speaker 1: uh near the inside of his elbow or like the

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Speaker 1: crook of his arm. There. Officer bow Jean came back

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Speaker 1: where he found Genie Keefer reading the Bible an attempt

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Speaker 1: to do her own kind of d i y exorcism

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Speaker 1: on Decker bless her Heart. Uh. In a show called

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Speaker 1: Paranormal Witnesses, bou Jean said that he too, truly believed

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Speaker 1: that Decker was possessed, and he decided to call in

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Speaker 1: the big guns. The chief of Police, Gary Roberts. So

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Speaker 1: Chief of Police Gary Roberts is an important part of

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Speaker 1: this story. He is convinced by by the cops to

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Speaker 1: go visit this scene in person. When he gets there,

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Speaker 1: he says, Okay, yeah, moisture, it's it's moisture, is not

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Speaker 1: itself a supernatural, norm invidious thing. I understand this might

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Speaker 1: be a weird situation for you, key, for family. We've

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Speaker 1: all had a tough day. Things are going to be fine.

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Speaker 1: There's absolutely nothing unnatural going on. And we know there's

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Speaker 1: a bit of at least a verbal reprimand to his

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Speaker 1: employees because he orders them to leave and not to

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Speaker 1: bother filing a report, you know what I mean, just

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Speaker 1: another night in another episode of Law and Order, Straulsburg, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: This was certainly not the end. When we returned from

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Speaker 1: a quick break, we will tell you what happened the

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Speaker 1: next day. So the next day some officers returned there,

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Speaker 1: and there are two other officers who are you to

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Speaker 1: the story, but they've heard about it over over the

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Speaker 1: past few hours. These are officers William Davies and officer

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Speaker 1: John Rundle. They along with bou Jean, kind of defied

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Speaker 1: their boss and they they were like, Okay, maybe the

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Speaker 1: police chief of police is not fully grasping the enormity

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Speaker 1: or the importance of this situation, or at least the

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Speaker 1: bizarreness of this situation. So they visit the house themselves,

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Speaker 1: and Davies says Decker, who is still there, recoils when

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Speaker 1: he offers Decker a gold cross, just like Pam at

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Speaker 1: the pizzeria. Decker drops it, claiming again that it burns

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Speaker 1: his skin. There's some kind of consistency there, uh. And

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Speaker 1: then these officers, these police officers who are trained to

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Speaker 1: accurately report what they see, say that Decker is lifted

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Speaker 1: off the ground by unseen forces Decker is also on

377
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,439
Speaker 1: video saying this uh and that he's thrown across the

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Speaker 1: room quote as though a bus had hit him. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And additional scratches appear on his neck. I haven't read

380
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Speaker 1: Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy in in a number of years,

381
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Speaker 1: but I'm pretty sure Rob McKenna just gets rained. I

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Speaker 1: don't think he gets thrown around. So that's that's another

383
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 1: difference if you're keeping tracked. So finally, on this next night,

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Speaker 1: Ron Van, why the landlord is able to convince a

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Speaker 1: preacher to come and attempt an exorcism. This is not

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Speaker 1: the first preacher he talked to. It's definitely not his

387
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: first choice. He had talked to several other religious figures,

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Speaker 1: ministers and priests, and they had all turned him down. Because,

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Speaker 1: as you've seen in previous episodes, we've done like exorcisms

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00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: one oh one and so on. Uh. Exorcisms are something

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Speaker 1: that religious institutions take very, very seriously because people have

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Speaker 1: been hurt in the past, and also you have to

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Speaker 1: spend a great deal of time figuring out whether it

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Speaker 1: could be anything other than a case of possession. Right,

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Speaker 1: So you get a lot of you you know, if

396
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Speaker 1: you are. If you are a religious authority listening to

397
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: today's episode, I'm sure that you have also received a

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Speaker 1: lot of strange calls from very upset and scared people,

399
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,199
Speaker 1: and you've had, you know, you had to realize that

400
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: maybe this isn't an exorcism, Maybe they just need someone

401
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: to help a walk back from whatever ledge they're on.

402
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 1: So this so he finally finds a guy who says yes.

403
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Speaker 1: Preacher arrives unseen, he begins to pray as his bible out.

404
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: Don begins to convulse violently physically, and then the preacher

405
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Speaker 1: performs some sort of ceremony. It's definitely not, you know, obviously,

406
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Speaker 1: the Catholic right of exorcism, but whatever it is seems

407
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: to work. People who are present describe an intangible difference

408
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: in the feeling, and not to be dismissive, but they

409
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: describe a change in the vibe, right of change in

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00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: the energy of of the of the house, of the room.

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Speaker 1: And then at the end of one of these prayers,

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Speaker 1: the rain stops and it will never appear in the

413
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: key for home again. So maybe this bizarre incident is

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00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: over and Don has just had a terrible furlough, but

415
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Speaker 1: he still has to go back to jail. He got convicted,

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Speaker 1: he has to serve his sentence. That's one of the

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00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: nicer furloughs I've ever heard of, where you get multiple

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00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: days off rather than you okay, you get to attend

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00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: the funeral and then you have to immediately return. That's

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00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 1: a it's a very nice thing that Don got to

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00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: to receive. He was pretty unusual then, m I don't

422
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: know the practices, but but still a different thing, right,

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Speaker 1: a different experience than probably a lot of people have

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Speaker 1: had um. But it it doesn't stop here, you're right,

425
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 1: And just a few days later he ends up back

426
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 1: in the jail. He's going to do his thing. And

427
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: while he was there, it appears that whatever rituals took

428
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: place a few days prior that stopped the rain at

429
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: the Keefer's house didn't work when he returned to incarceration,

430
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: because now it's raining in the jail. Or yeah, at

431
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: the very least it's described as rain, but very least,

432
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: uh water is a puri in a way that seems inexplicable.

433
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: We have a we have a quote from Don Decker

434
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: where he says, they put me in a maximum security cell.

435
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: I was in there with another inmate, and I was

436
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: thinking I should make it rain in here, and all

437
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: of a sudden, water started mean out of the concrete floor,

438
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: and at that point I thought I can do stuff.

439
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: And then uh yeah, he realized he's Storm. He's like,

440
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: oh man, I'm Storm. This is awesome. Or like your

441
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: you know, with the black cloud following him around, or

442
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:24,479
Speaker 1: like Rob McKenna, who is maybe a little bit more

443
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: of an ambitious robin kind of but but yeah, he says,

444
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: maybe this is something that I can U in some

445
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: way control. There's a guard who's skeptical about it, and

446
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: it's like, oh yeah, Decker, well if you can, you

447
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: can control rain, and that's why you're doing so well

448
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,239
Speaker 1: in life. Locked up here in jail, why don't you

449
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: make it rain in the warden's office. The warden at

450
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: the time was a guy named Dave keen Holt. He

451
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: just started making it rain. Sorry, just started making it rain. Yes, no,

452
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: you're so so. Warden. Keene Hold is also on video

453
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: and he says the following I was sitting at the

454
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: desk writing a report. I was all by myself in

455
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: the administration area. Nobody else was around. It was approximately

456
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: eight in the evening at the time, I didn't feel anything,

457
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: but my shirt was drooping down. And he goes on

458
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: to say, uh, as another officer entered and was going

459
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: to tell him something and was like, warden, look at

460
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: your shirt, and so he looks down. He literally looks

461
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: down at his shirt and right around the center of

462
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: a stern um about four inches long two inches wide,

463
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: there was this huge spot of water, and he says,

464
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: I was uh. I was startled, I was scared. The

465
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: officer was frightened. I didn't have an explanation of why

466
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: it happened. And so then the warden, oh, and other

467
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: people reported seeing this. So his cellmate saw it, two

468
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: guards saw, janitor saw it. The warden saw this stuff

469
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: appear on his shirt. And the warden contacts a guy

470
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: named Reverend William Blackburn to attempt another like another exorcism,

471
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: a third exorcism for those of us keeping track at home.

472
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: So then a third and final exorcism was attempted, and

473
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: this appears to perhaps have done the trick. Another reverend

474
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: by the name of William Blackburn meets Don in jail

475
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: um and he sees with his own eyes this rain appear,

476
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: apparently summoned by Don himself, like he said, matt Um,

477
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: and he prayed over him, and the rain stopped. Who

478
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,959
Speaker 1: stopped the rain? Indeed? Uh? Or who will stop the rain?

479
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: Apparently it was it was William Blackburn as a credence

480
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: clearwater revival reference um speaking of great references. Uh. In

481
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: the wake of this kind of bizarre indoor weather the

482
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: thing or ben as you not to in the outline

483
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: inner weather, shout out to Robert Frost um Don and

484
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: these various witnesses still claim that they're unable to explain

485
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: where this was coming from, where this indoor rain was

486
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: coming from? Um. And and there are quite a few

487
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: people that that saw it. So what's what's the deal?

488
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: What actually happened? Here's where it gets crazy. This is

489
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: a story that, as you said, Noell still does not

490
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: have an official explanation, by which I mean it still

491
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: does not have explanation as considered a hundred percent factual

492
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: by all people involved. Uh. There are several possibilities, and

493
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: not all of these possibilities are immediately apparent. So what

494
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: makes this case unusual or remarkable in comparison to other

495
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: cases that have some similarities is that there are nine

496
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: eye witnesses, several of whom have their careers stated on

497
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: their ability to be accurate and credible, right, and in

498
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: recalling what they've encountered. Uh Don himself. You know, we

499
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: could count him as as an extra witness, but let's

500
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: let's leave him bracketed to the side. All of these

501
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: nine witnesses were willing to go on record saying that

502
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: they heard, saw, and felt unusual phenomena. But first importantly,

503
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: and this is where those shows can be a little

504
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: bit misleading, not all of these witnesses are saying there

505
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: was something demonic at play. The police chief right, was

506
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: never convinced. Several witnesses will still they'll they'll go as

507
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: far as saying they saw something they can't explain. That

508
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: doesn't make it necessarily supernatural. And additionally, if you look

509
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: at exorcisms overall, the claims of creating rain indoors seem

510
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: oddly specific and somewhat unprecedented. It doesn't follow the exorcism

511
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: tropes of Uh. The demographics of people who tend to

512
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 1: be possessed often children, predominantly women. Remember, not all claims

513
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: of possession or exorcisms are Christian and nature and the

514
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 1: Decker case does include like a couple two big, big

515
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: common signs of what's considered to be possession, some kind

516
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: of levitation mysterious wounds and so on, levitation of Don

517
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: Decker himself, and then some kind of psychokinetic movement of

518
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: the pots and pans in the kitchen. But the primary

519
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: thing inexplicable rain uh, wetness generated somehow by the human

520
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: mind or by you know, by somehow some action or

521
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: presence of a human being that usually is attributed to

522
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: stuff like the old practice of rainmakers, you know, people

523
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 1: who were paid to go out and do anything from

524
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: early signs of cloud seating to using their own allegedly

525
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 1: unique cognitive or spiritual abilities to bring rain to drought

526
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: stricken areas. Yeah, it sounds to me, if it's real,

527
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: more like a superpower that is being unlocked through a

528
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: highly stressful situation or something, you know, more way more

529
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: so than a possession by somebody. It sounds like he

530
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: got extremely stressed to do the funeral and this abusive

531
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,720
Speaker 1: person in his life that died, then it went away after.

532
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: It feels like being calmed down. Whether or not the

533
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: exorcism actually did anything spiritually or it was just someone

534
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: giving him attention and calming him down, a lot of

535
00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: people being around him, heart rate, lowering endorphins. Well, then

536
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: then it comes back when he gets back to the

537
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: stressful situation of being in prison. Right, so interestingly enough,

538
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: like to me, it's it's almost like it's being triggered

539
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: through some kind of stress or internal turmoil. It's a

540
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: very Stephen Kingy type trope. Like it makes me think

541
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: of Carrie, you know, when she's picked on and uh

542
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 1: and humiliated at the prom and then all of a

543
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: sudden she just kicks into like fight or flight mode

544
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: and like burns everybody alive or or firestarter for example.

545
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of these powers or latent abilities

546
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 1: are brought out by you know, stressful events and that

547
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 1: are triggered. And then it is also usually beyond the

548
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: individual's control or at least you know, to or to

549
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 1: a large degree. And of course, um, fellow fellow comic fans,

550
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: you we're called that this is this is one of

551
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: the common ways for mutant powers to express and things

552
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: like Marvel comics. Uh, it's often tied to puberty in

553
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: those or tropes just like or those sort of stories,

554
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: I should say, not tropes, just like in Um Sinking Carrey.

555
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: As you mentioned earlier, noal with this. We have to

556
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 1: remember Don is at the cusp of his early twenties,

557
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 1: so his body is still developing to that to that theory, Uh,

558
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: we don't know how much, if any, medical research has

559
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: been done on his brain, right, which is another interesting question.

560
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: And we also there hasn't been a ton of research

561
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: done on the house, and we know that for sure.

562
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: But let's let's so those are interesting possibilities, they're interesting

563
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: um paths of thoughts. We have to take another one,

564
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: which is a little more nitty gritty, And it's an

565
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: unfortunate fact of the reality that Don and these eyewitnesses

566
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: were living in during the early nineties when this case

567
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: was publicized on those shows we cited earlier. Uh, And

568
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: it's a it's an unfortunate reality of the world we

569
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 1: live in today. That's kind of the rise of reality television,

570
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: unscripted allegedly nonfiction programs with heavily edited interviews. Again, the

571
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: vast majority of people who learned about this story, especially

572
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: outside of UH the area between Allantown in Scranton, Pennsylvania.

573
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: The people learned about this learned about it because they

574
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: were watching stuff, and I say this with love, they

575
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: were watching stuff that was meant to be entertainment, right,

576
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: entertainment TV. It is completely possible. We've explored this before.

577
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 1: It's completely possible that any of these witnesses, even Don himself,

578
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: may have been manipulated or goaded in some way by

579
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 1: the producers, either into exaggerating their original statements or having

580
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: their words taken out of context. You know what I mean, Like,

581
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: if there's something like I bet Chief of Police Gary

582
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: Roberts was the most difficult interview for those producers, What

583
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: do you guys think? Yeah, yeah, for sure, Yeah, been

584
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: to to this end. I want to just point out

585
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 1: exactly what you're saying. It was when this occurred. Then

586
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: it wasn't until the nineties when it was retold right

587
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: on one of these one or more of these scripted shows. Um,

588
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: this is something that Skeptic Magazine points out. Michael Shermer

589
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: that writes in in that magazine, Uh, why didn't anyone

590
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 1: think to snap any kind of photograph, take any kind

591
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 1: of um evidence of this occurrence? Why doesn't that exist?

592
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,760
Speaker 1: We're talking about days of this kind of thing happening,

593
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 1: and you're you know, you're at the police station. You're

594
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 1: talking about a place where people are incarcerated, where pictures

595
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:55,240
Speaker 1: are taken of people for mug shots. Why didn't somebody

596
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: take a picture of any of this stuff? It's just

597
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: it feels strange. Why didn't anybody, for instance, take a

598
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: sample of the water? Right, especially because the water left

599
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: will find a physical impression. We know that there really

600
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: was water, that part is for sure. We're just now

601
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: arguing over how connected it was with Don and where

602
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 1: the water came from. Right, be right? Memory is treacherous,

603
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 1: arguably one of the most treacherous bodily processes, uh is

604
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: remembering something. And then we have to look at the

605
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: credibility of of these shows. As enjoyable as they are, Um,

606
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: these shows have an angle, right. They want you to

607
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,280
Speaker 1: be tantalized, They want you to be fascinated. They want

608
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: you to leave with more questions than you had when

609
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: you started watching, and maybe one decision, one answer, which

610
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,720
Speaker 1: is will I watch the next episode of the show?

611
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: And the answer is hopefully yes. Right, what they're trying

612
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: to get you to, um, they they do very well.

613
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: There is an art and a craft of this, But

614
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 1: it also means it's like telling these stories, making these

615
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: narratives is like whittling a block of wood. You have

616
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: to get rid of some stuff for the final product

617
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: to have the shape you want people to see. And

618
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: that's why they don't invest a ton of time looking

619
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:27,959
Speaker 1: at any possible mundane explanations that might be kind of boring. Uh.

620
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 1: They do have subject matter experts, you know, that's part

621
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: of the format of those shows, and the experts in

622
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,760
Speaker 1: the in each of these programs are billed as paranormal investigators.

623
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: Paranormal investigators is a very large term, right. There's a

624
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: lot of stuff that fits in there, from people who

625
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: believe they are mediums to people who believe that they

626
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: are hardcore skeptics trying to debunk the idea of a

627
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,280
Speaker 1: haunted house, you know what I mean. So the problem

628
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: with describing people as paranormal investigators wherever they fall on

629
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: that spectrum, is this, there is no widely accepted accreditation process.

630
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: There's no board or other authority that reviews you. You know,

631
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: like veterinarians have boards and um the medical professionals have

632
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 1: boards to make sure that their researches up to date,

633
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: to make sure that their practices are sound and there

634
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: is no such thing as, for instance, a licensed paranormal investigator.

635
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: You can call anyone you want. There are plenty of

636
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,919
Speaker 1: people who will issue you a certificate of some sort,

637
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: but there's not like a you can't go to the

638
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: d m V or your local courthouse, you know, like

639
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: the place you would get a gun license or divorce

640
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: or marriage license and say, hey, I need a judge

641
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: to sign off of me being a paranormal investigator. I tried,

642
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: I looked into it. It's just not a thing. And

643
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: yet we've got priests that are like supposedly qualified to

644
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 1: do exorcisms. I guess maybe that's the closest thing to

645
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: having accreditation for for being a paranormal investigator of some kind.

646
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 1: I mean not kind of. You're if you're a priest,

647
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: you're showing up, you're investigating a paranormal event, and then

648
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 1: you are doing something about it, supposedly, and it's sanctioned

649
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: by this very very old, established organization. I just I

650
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: find it fascinating. I'm not trying to, you know, downplay

651
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: anybody's beliefs or religion, but particularly the idea of sanctioned

652
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: exorcisms has always sat a little oddly with me. Well,

653
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: it's interesting because we have to remember that the church

654
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 1: in in a real way, uh, proceeds the modern state.

655
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 1: I would argue religion precedes the modern state, rather so

656
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 1: in a way. That's they're the oldest licensed paranormal investigators,

657
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 1: even if they're licensed for you know, a very specific

658
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 1: niche of that sort of stuff. But that's why I

659
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,919
Speaker 1: think that I agree, that's a good point. Let's pause, though,

660
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: Let's pause for a word from our sponsor. Will return,

661
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: and Will will look into the part of the story

662
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: that these programs did not like John Decker's reign. We

663
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: have returned. Uh. Third point here, objective scientific investigations, one

664
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 1: in particular, do appear to have a plausible explanation for

665
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: what occurred. To your point, Matt, these explanation, this explanation

666
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: occurs um a number of years after the actual events.

667
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: There's a great report, series of reports by the Pocono

668
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: Record or poken House, that that details the work of

669
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: a researcher from New York located in New Zealand, a

670
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: medical sociologist named Robert Bartholomew. He became interested in this

671
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 1: case when a colleague referred it to him and said, hey, man,

672
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 1: this is right up your alley. I don't know what

673
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: the explanation is based on the info I have. Bartholomew's legit,

674
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: he's accredited. He teaches at Botany Down Secondary College, or

675
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: did at the time. He wrote in a ton of

676
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: journals on on things that were allegations of paranormal right.

677
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: And when I say wrote in journals, we're talking about

678
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: medical and sociology journals, not you know, his own personal

679
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: mole schemes or something. Uh. And and he had a

680
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: pretty he had a pretty solid theory for this, that's right. Um.

681
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: He he did make it very clear that he did

682
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: not have any connections to Stroudsburg UM and kind of

683
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,439
Speaker 1: considered himself as as a bit of an outsider. Um.

684
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 1: But he said, quote, I can be seen as an

685
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 1: impartial third party. My goal is to understand what happened. Uh.

686
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: And he believes, I think, kind of like what we

687
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 1: were conjecturing earlier, that through this kind of perfect combination,

688
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: perfect storm of stress, uh, the weather and a particular

689
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 1: type of ice formation, Bartholomew believes that he can reasonably

690
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: explain what happened. So for him, it all goes back

691
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 1: to this thing called an ice dam like the Hoover dam.

692
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: Ice damning is a phenomenon that occurs when warm air

693
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 1: enters an attic uh like snow melt like melt water

694
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: from like a roof seeping in um and then if

695
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: temperatures drop after the sun sets, ice can form and

696
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 1: it can trap the water that had previously melted with

697
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: nowhere to go and still at a temperature, keeping it

698
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: in a liquid form. Because of the internal heat of

699
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 1: the house. The water will eventually leak outside. And you

700
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: can actually see a pretty helpful um image of this

701
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: if you go to University of Minnesota Extensions website, UH

702
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: and just type in what is an ice dam and

703
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 1: it shows the phenomenon. It really is little pockets in

704
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 1: the eaves kind of of an attic, so it would

705
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: be like in a corner for example. Uh. It's a

706
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: it's a pretty pretty helpful image, but it's sort of

707
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: like what what's described, but I don't know, not quite

708
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 1: well really what you'd be seeing here. You may have

709
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 1: seen this before because this is fairly common, like weeping.

710
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: You can see like your walls look like they're weeping,

711
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: like they're crying, or it's it's just dripping water down

712
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: a little bit. This has happened in older houses that

713
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: I've rented here in Atlanta, depending on what's going on

714
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 1: with the temperature and accumulation. Sometimes, uh, it's it's it's

715
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,879
Speaker 1: fairly common. That's all I wanted to say. So the yeah,

716
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: the reason I have that diagram there is if you

717
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,359
Speaker 1: it is helpful look at it if you're curious. Um,

718
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: what what you're seeing is a kind on the roof.

719
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: You're seeing a a combination of of water in three forms.

720
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 1: The ice is towards the bottom, right toward the eaves

721
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: of the roof. The snow is the top, the damned

722
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 1: water in the middle. And what you know. The immediate

723
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,919
Speaker 1: question if you look at this diagram or other ones

724
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:16,240
Speaker 1: like it, is how does it get through the insulation

725
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: while the insulation becomes sodden? And that heat is going

726
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 1: to be continual because you have to keep a house warm, right,

727
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: ideally while you're in snowy conditions, and so things like

728
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 1: a snowstorm can exacerbate that. But the big question, probably

729
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: one of the more tantalizing perps, is Okay, fine, I

730
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 1: understand weeping, right, I've seen leaks before. I know what

731
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: leaks are like. Leaks do not shoot out from the

732
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: bottom of the floor like rain from a cloud. And

733
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: isn't it pretty big coincidence that this occurred at the

734
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:57,439
Speaker 1: house where Don was, then at the pizza place, then

735
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 1: again at the jail. Yeah, and and corroborated by various

736
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: unrelated witnesses from from these Uh, well, it didn't seem

737
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 1: like they would have an agenda, you know, I tend

738
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,879
Speaker 1: to I tend to believe folks like that. Uh, it's

739
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 1: it's it's hard. Yeah, it's hard to justify. Of course not.

740
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 1: Of course this wouldn't have And this is the thing

741
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 1: that happens in houses very rarely, like under very specific circumstances. Yes,

742
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: So going back to um, what I'm building toward here,

743
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 1: or what it was building towards there, is that it

744
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: Really The other problem with definition here is what defines rain.

745
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 1: Torrential downpour is rain, but a drizzle is also rain,

746
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: you know, And and fog is just moisture in the air.

747
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 1: So is it possible that they were, um, the people

748
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: who are witnessing this, we're seeing air heavy with with moisture.

749
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: But was the was the moisture somehow being affected by

750
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: the heat of the house after it left the walls

751
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: or after it left that dam, you know what I mean.

752
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: Was it somehow um being dispersed the way that a

753
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: humidifier would or something. Uh. To the point about specificity

754
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 1: of ice stamming, Yes, you're correct. The weather in the area,

755
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 1: the weather on Ant Street there does appear to be

756
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: within the bounds of what would what an ice stam

757
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 1: need would need to form. Uh. Daytime highs were in

758
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: the forties and fifties fahrenheit, but then the lows dropped

759
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: down to the twenties and the thirties. UH. Also, Bartholomells

760
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 1: research shows that ice stamming can be pretty common if

761
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 1: a major snowstorm has just hit an area where temperatures

762
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 1: go above freezing during the day to turn stuff in

763
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,800
Speaker 1: the water, and then below the point of freezing thirty

764
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 1: two degrees at night. UH. This makes perfect conditions for

765
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:53,359
Speaker 1: your classic ice stam and the Poconos have been hit

766
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,760
Speaker 1: by a snowstorm about thirteen days before all this stuff

767
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 1: went down with Don Decker. So maybe there was something

768
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 1: unclean at play. But maybe it wasn't a demon, or

769
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,800
Speaker 1: maybe it wasn't an angry ghost. It was a dirty

770
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 1: roof with a pile of unswept snow still unclean. And

771
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 1: then also I totally get it. I've been in snow

772
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 1: areas before. Why would you like just plow? Like cleaning

773
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 1: your driveway is enough. Who goes on their roof all

774
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: the time to clean off snow? I go there to

775
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: clean off leaves. Yeah, the leaves are the problem here

776
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: in Georgia for sure. Uh, although the and I kind

777
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: of like it. I think that's meditative. Also, you're not freezing,

778
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:35,320
Speaker 1: why to it? Uh? And then what happens to this house?

779
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 1: Don's gone. The keepers stay at the house for about

780
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 1: two more years, so they must not have been that

781
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 1: freaked out, and they didn't see anything else super unusual. Uh.

782
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: They couldn't get those stains from the water off the walls.

783
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: And we can't do any on the scene testing or

784
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: try to reenact the events unsolved mystery style because the

785
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 1: house has been demolished. And the fourth the fourth point here,

786
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 1: this one we can maybe close with for the skeptics.

787
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 1: You hate to see it, and this is not victim blaming,

788
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: but there's a question about credibility on Don's part that

789
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,320
Speaker 1: becomes crucial to the story. A few years later, or

790
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:19,799
Speaker 1: a few decades later. Yes, that's correct. There is a

791
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: news story that we stumbled upon from October of two

792
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:26,720
Speaker 1: thousand twelve, when Don Decker found himself back in the news.

793
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:31,240
Speaker 1: He'd been rather obscure after these nineties television shows. He'd

794
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: you know, you'd every once in a while seeing an

795
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 1: interview with him or him talking about something over the years.

796
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: But this was the most high profile thing. Uh. He

797
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 1: was in the news because he turned himself in to

798
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 1: a federal court on charges that that he had set

799
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: ablaze a business as a restaurant in the Poconos. Is

800
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: an event that occurred in two thousand eleven. This is

801
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 1: in will Bar, a different area there in the Poconos,

802
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 1: a rival pizzeria. Perhaps I don't I don't think so,

803
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 1: but but it does appear that Dawn was involved because

804
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: the restaurant owner, this is allegedly the restaurant owner brought

805
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: him in to do it on purpose. Oh like for

806
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:23,359
Speaker 1: like an insurance money. Uh yeah, yeah. It was called

807
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 1: Dana's Restaurant and tavern, not not a not a pizzeria

808
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 1: at all. Uh. And the owner was named Theodoro's Kiriakopolos.

809
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 1: I think I got that right. Um. And this was

810
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: located at five hundred Sterling Road there in Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania.

811
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,760
Speaker 1: So he got the arson pinned on him. A grand

812
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 1: jury charged the pair with mail fraud, criminal conspiracy, and

813
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 1: used to fire to commit a federal felony ouch um.

814
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 1: And this is because you know there's an insurance claim involved, right,

815
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: oh a million. That might be an unfair assumption on

816
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 1: our maybe, but it's some just want to see the

817
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 1: world burn or the very least certain restaurants. Um. But

818
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:08,240
Speaker 1: this is important, right because other than Decker himself, uh,

819
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 1: the events seemed unrelated. But his involvement in this arson

820
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:17,359
Speaker 1: scheme really calls his entire credibility. Mean, you know, he

821
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,800
Speaker 1: he was he was pinched the first time for receiving

822
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 1: stolen goods. Now he's committing mail fraud and arson. You know,

823
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 1: it seems really sketchy his whole kind of account of things.

824
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 1: But again, there are others that are that are seeing

825
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 1: this happen. But it does indicate a strong ability or

826
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: willingness at least to tell stories to the public. Right, well,

827
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:44,359
Speaker 1: I had from my mind, it's more that it could

828
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 1: be taken as indicating his overall willingness to portray a

829
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 1: false narrative. I don't know, I don't I don't know

830
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,359
Speaker 1: if it's fair to see it's strong willingness, but it's

831
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:58,280
Speaker 1: definitely there's definitely a proven case where he was totally

832
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:02,879
Speaker 1: fine with doing that. Maybe maybe that's from desperation, right, um,

833
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 1: because people can be driven to crimes of necessity. Maybe

834
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:12,360
Speaker 1: that's a maybe that's a completely unrelated event because people

835
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 1: have bad stuff happen and people make unrelated mistakes in

836
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: their lives, or or you know, maybe the devil made

837
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 1: him do it. So at this point, we want to

838
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: hear from you, what do you think, folks? Does the

839
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:36,840
Speaker 1: proposed scientific solution for this bizarre rain well, does it

840
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 1: hold water wamp wamp or was there something else at play?

841
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 1: And if so what, Because I'll be honest, like, the

842
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:50,280
Speaker 1: the ice standing seems a really good explanation for how

843
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 1: water could get into the house, if not through the pipes,

844
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:59,799
Speaker 1: But from the eyewitnesses explanation, it doesn't. It sounds like

845
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 1: a out of them grew up in an area where

846
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,359
Speaker 1: they would have been familiar with ice stamming, right, Like

847
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 1: they would have known that uh certain types of weather

848
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 1: it can cause certain types of leaks. And this from

849
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 1: their descriptions, at least from the way they're depicted describing

850
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:17,319
Speaker 1: these things, it doesn't it doesn't appear the thought that's

851
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 1: what was going on. Yeah, it looks, at least on

852
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 1: camera in the in the things that have been shot

853
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 1: for those unscripted series like it is, it is much

854
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 1: more of a there's much more water in these places

855
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 1: than you would find if there was moisture in between

856
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 1: the walls or the ceiling or something. Uh, and it

857
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: was just dripping out from the drywall or you know,

858
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 1: whatever the wall was made of at the time, it

859
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: seems like more, but again, we don't know. I've been

860
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 1: I think the most convincing thing to this entire story

861
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 1: or the eyewitness accounts of these police officers, simply because it,

862
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:02,279
Speaker 1: you know, you listen to them who they've given interviews.

863
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 1: I believe them that they're actually police officers, that they

864
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: actually went through this stuff, because they appear to be

865
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 1: baffled by it. And these are these are as an

866
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 1: occupation where you're trying to find answers for things, especially

867
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: if you're an investigator. Maybe not necessarily to the extent

868
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 1: that I'm thinking of, if you're you know, just in

869
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 1: an officer who is on the street or something responding

870
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 1: to calls. But this, like, I believe them that they

871
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 1: saw something strange that they could not define or explain,

872
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 1: and we want to hear We wouldn't hear from you,

873
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 1: especially if maybe you've encountered something like this that you

874
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: are at a loss to explain. We would love to

875
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 1: hear your story. We try to be easy to find

876
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 1: online where on Facebook, We're on Instagram, we're on Twitter.

877
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:57,919
Speaker 1: We particularly like to recommend our Facebook page. Here's where

878
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 1: it gets crazy when you can share, uh, your personal experiences,

879
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 1: your opinions of this case with the best part of

880
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 1: the show, your fellow listeners. But hold on, you might

881
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: be saying, I do know what happened to Don Decker,

882
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 1: and I hate social media because those are somehow related.

883
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 1: I'm freestyling here, folks, But the point is, if you

884
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 1: don't care for social media, you can also give us

885
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 1: a call directly. We have a phone number, that's right.

886
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 1: The number is one eight three three s T D

887
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: W y t K. You can leave a message there

888
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: after you hear Ben's voice and some of that music,

889
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 1: and we ask that you please leave the name that

890
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 1: you want us to call you. That's that's highly important.

891
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: Whatever you're comfortable with us calling you on air, let

892
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 1: us know if we can use your message or not,

893
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 1: and then leave your message. Please try and keep it

894
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:52,439
Speaker 1: as brief as you can or at least succinct. And

895
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 1: if you want to give us a personal note just

896
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 1: about the show or us, any of the hosts or

897
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 1: Paul or Alexis, do out at the end of that

898
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 1: message if you will, And if you're gonna if you

899
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: think it's a long enough story where you're going to

900
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:08,920
Speaker 1: have to call back numerous times in order to get

901
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,919
Speaker 1: the full thing out, please take a slightly different route.

902
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 1: It will help us and increase your chances that we

903
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 1: get to actually address what you've sent to us. Send

904
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 1: it instead via our old fashioned email address. We are

905
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: conspiracy at i heeart radio dot com. Stuff they don't

906
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 1: want you to know is a production of I Heart Radio.

907
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the i

908
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Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

909
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Speaker 1: your favorite shows.