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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

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Speaker 2: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Appocarplay and then

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Speaker 2: Roudo with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever

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Speaker 2: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 3: And welcome to the Tuesday edition of Balance of Power

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Speaker 3: here on Bloomberg Radio, on the satellite and on YouTube.

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Speaker 4: Glad you're with us.

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Speaker 3: I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington as we cook up something

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Speaker 3: special for you here that I mentioned you were not

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Speaker 3: going to see or hear anywhere else today but on

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Speaker 3: Bloomberg TV and Radio. And that's a conversation with Dave McCormick,

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Speaker 3: now a US Senate candidate in the swing state of Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 3: the former Bridgewater CEO, in a campaign against longtime Senator

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Speaker 3: Bob Casey, the Democrat. They each cleared their respective primaries,

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Speaker 3: and now it's onto the general with a lot to

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Speaker 3: talk about. Week that found us reviewing the impact of

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump's first visit to Capitol Hill since January sixth,

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Speaker 3: and reviewing the conversations that took place inside the room

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Speaker 3: at the Business Roundtable when Donald Trump rolled out his

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Speaker 3: economic vision that included higher tariffs and making permanent the

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Speaker 3: twenty seventeen Trump tax cuts. Now, Dave McCormick has been

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Speaker 3: endorsed by Donald Trump in this campaign, and we're going

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Speaker 3: to talk about his vision and the vision more broadly

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Speaker 3: of the Republican Party. Let's get to it right now

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Speaker 3: with my colleague Shanali Bossick in New York live on Bloomberg.

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Speaker 5: I want to welcome and now our audience is across

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Speaker 5: our Bloomberg television, radio, and YouTube platforms as one of

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Speaker 5: finance's most notable names is running for a US Senate seat.

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Speaker 5: That is, combat veteran and former Bridgewater CEO Dave McCormick

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Speaker 5: is a Republican Senate candidate in Pennsylvania and joins me

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Speaker 5: with Bloomberg's Joe Matthew and Dave. There are a number

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Speaker 5: of things we want to get to with you, but

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Speaker 5: we were reconnected after you wrote an op ed entitled

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Speaker 5: America Must Lead on Cryptocurrency, and you know, it was

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Speaker 5: somewhat interesting to see the former CEO of the world's

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Speaker 5: largest head fund take a pro crypto view given how

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Speaker 5: reticent the financial industry has been in adopting crypto. Why

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Speaker 5: is this a platform that's important to you?

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Speaker 6: Well, thanks for having me. Nice to see both of you.

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Speaker 6: You know, the reason that I advocated this is I

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Speaker 6: think it's it's good economic policy, but it's also good

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Speaker 6: national security policy. And I've obviously been following a crypto

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Speaker 6: for a while now and the developments around blockchain, and

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Speaker 6: I always thought it had appeal as around the principles

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Speaker 6: of individual freedom and privacy. You know, data security and

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Speaker 6: data privacy is something that is incredibly important and increasingly so.

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Speaker 6: But I was always worried about the national security implications.

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Speaker 6: And I think what's become clear is that we are

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Speaker 6: in the next great wave of innovation with crypto and blockchain,

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Speaker 6: and if America doesn't embrace that, we're going to be

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Speaker 6: left behind. And by embracing it, we can create great jobs,

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Speaker 6: a great source of innovation. I've lived through a number

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Speaker 6: of waves of innovation, whether it was the PC and

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Speaker 6: the Internet, or whether it's some of the new developments

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Speaker 6: around AI. This is one such wave that we need

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Speaker 6: to embrace. And the national security implications of this are clear,

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Speaker 6: which is that blockchain has very limited and crypto very

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Speaker 6: limited listed activity, something like zero point three four five

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Speaker 6: percent of the transactions. But it gives a roadmap for

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Speaker 6: national security officials and prosecutors to zero in on a

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Speaker 6: listed activity. So the national security and legal experts I

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Speaker 6: talked to think that it offers a real source of eliminating,

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Speaker 6: not increasing a listed activity. And so, for all those

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Speaker 6: reasons and important to Pennsylvania, a job creation engine for Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 6: I've embraced this and encouraged lawmakers to lay out a

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Speaker 6: regulatory framework that will allow innovation to continue.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting, Dave, Welcome, It's Joe Matthew in Washington, and

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Speaker 3: great to see you as we consider this. You point

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Speaker 3: out in your op ed that this is also a

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Speaker 3: matter of staying competitive with, if not beating, China when

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Speaker 3: it comes to crypto and I wonder if we could

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Speaker 3: get to the matter of China right off the top,

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Speaker 3: because we have a lot of questions for you on

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Speaker 3: the economy, on taxes and tariffs. Your opponent in your

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Speaker 3: Senate race, Bob Casey, has pointed out repeatedly the role

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Speaker 3: that you had at Bridgewater and directing investments toward companies

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Speaker 3: based in China. Can you tell our listeners and viewers

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Speaker 3: the extent to which you were personally involved, and the

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Speaker 3: effort behind those investments, how you see them now?

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Speaker 6: Sure, Well, I've been very involved with China for more

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Speaker 6: than twenty years as a policymaker in the Bush administration.

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Speaker 6: I was one of the folks that was very involved

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Speaker 6: in making sure that China didn't either steal or get

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Speaker 6: access to some of our key technologies and is the

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Speaker 6: global economy has evolved, and as China's evolved, it's become

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Speaker 6: more and more of a national security threat, particularly with

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Speaker 6: the rise of President Sheep, who has a very very

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Speaker 6: aggressive view of China's role in the world visa the

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Speaker 6: United States. With regard to Bridgewater, Bridgewater is a global

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Speaker 6: investment firm. We serve global clients. While I was there

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Speaker 6: and still in Bridgewater's portfolio, there was something like two

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Speaker 6: percent of its allocation that was to China, and that

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Speaker 6: was mostly in portfolio types of investments. And so this

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Speaker 6: is one of the challenges as we think about national

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Speaker 6: security going forward. One of the things I've advocated is

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Speaker 6: we need to make sure that investors are not investing

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Speaker 6: of any kind, are not investing in companies that support

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Speaker 6: the Chinese military, support the PLA support the Communist Party,

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Speaker 6: and the government should take a much more active role,

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Speaker 6: and I've said this in testimony and so forth, to

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Speaker 6: identify which companies we do not want American investors or

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Speaker 6: American companies to invest in. And that's one of the

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Speaker 6: things I'd be advocating as a senator, as well as

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Speaker 6: decoupling in key industries that are going to be absolutely

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Speaker 6: critical to America's economic and national security going forward. So

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Speaker 6: that's the vision that I've laid out, and I think

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Speaker 6: what's going to be required, and I honestly think my

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Speaker 6: experienced with China, both as a national security official but

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Speaker 6: also as a global CEO, is going to help me

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Speaker 6: be much more sophisticated in how we deal with the

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Speaker 6: Chinese because I actually know what I'm.

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Speaker 7: Talking about, Dave.

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Speaker 5: To that end, I want to get your view here

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Speaker 5: on the tariff policies put forth during Donald Trump and

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Speaker 5: his pet presidential run. There are a lot of mainstream economists,

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Speaker 5: including Larry Summers, concerned about the inflationary impact that such

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Speaker 5: policies could have. Do you share those concerns?

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Speaker 6: Well, Listen, I was someone who has been generally skeptical

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Speaker 6: of tariffs, but when President Trump came into office, I

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Speaker 6: thought that selective use of tariffs to ensure a fair

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Speaker 6: playing field, insure reciprocity, ensure negotiating leverage made sense, and

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Speaker 6: so I supported the tariffs the President Trump put in

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Speaker 6: place under the last administration. And I do think that

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Speaker 6: there's the risk of inflationary impact. And frankly, I think

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Speaker 6: there's two dimensions of present Biden's policies which are relevant

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Speaker 6: to this. One is the enormous spending is the primary

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Speaker 6: driver of inflation. That and the policies that are directed

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Speaker 6: on reducing oil and gas consumption, those are the primary

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Speaker 6: drivers of inflation, and economists like Larry Summers have said

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Speaker 6: as much. The second problem with those policies of the

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Speaker 6: Biden administration, particularly as it relates to evs and solar

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Speaker 6: panels and so forth, the policies that have been in

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Speaker 6: place have made us ironically highly dependent on China, because

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Speaker 6: seventy percent of the lithium batteries and eighty percent of

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Speaker 6: the solar panels are manufactured in China. So in one

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Speaker 6: fell swoop, in my opinion, the Biden administration's economic agenda

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Speaker 6: has driven up inflation and made us more dependent on

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Speaker 6: our primary adversary. And that's why as I've run for

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Speaker 6: the Senate, I've advocated set of policies that take us

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Speaker 6: in the opposite direction.

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Speaker 4: Let's put a finer point on this, Dave.

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Speaker 3: The idea of tariffs here against China will put aside

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Speaker 3: for a second, because Donald Trump is also proposing and

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Speaker 3: across the board, a global ten percent tariff that he

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Speaker 3: says would help to pay for tax cuts if he's reelected.

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Speaker 3: This has been a big debate, as I'm sure you

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Speaker 3: well know in Washington over the past week or so.

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Speaker 3: It's about to get a lot louder making permanent the

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Speaker 3: twenty seventeen tax cuts that are set to expire next year.

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Speaker 3: We saw a new analysis from the Committee for a

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Speaker 3: Responsible Federal Budget says that would cost in excess of

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Speaker 3: four trillion dollars, that it could add that much to

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Speaker 3: our deficit. So if it's not tariffs that offset the

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Speaker 3: cost here, how do you pay for it?

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Speaker 6: Well, first of all, you got to pay for it

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Speaker 6: with a growing economy that's generating tax proceeds. The best

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Speaker 6: way to do this, and in the Bush, rather the

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Speaker 6: Trump tax cuts, if President Biden's reelected and those tax

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Speaker 6: cuts are allowed to fire. That's going to hurt all Americans.

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Speaker 6: So if you look at someone who's making seventy thousand

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Speaker 6: dollars a year, the impact on them is something like

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Speaker 6: two thousand dollars of tax reduction benefit that they lose.

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Speaker 6: And this is the the.

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Speaker 3: Impact of inflation is pretty great on a household as well. Right,

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Speaker 3: how do you find four point six billion dollars I

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Speaker 3: think is the number that they put down your to

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Speaker 3: pay for that without stoking inflation even further.

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Speaker 6: Well, the inflation has already been stoked by six trillion

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Speaker 6: dollars of incremental spending under President.

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Speaker 4: Biden year, so you'd add another four No, no, no.

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Speaker 6: The primary driver of the inflation we had has been

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Speaker 6: the spending policies of Biden and Republicans and Democrats have

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Speaker 6: been spending too much. I'm not saying this is solely Democrats,

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Speaker 6: but what's happened under Biden is six trillion dollars of spending.

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Speaker 6: And if you think about the types of spending, you

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Speaker 6: can talk about one hundred and seventy billion dollars of

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Speaker 6: loan forgiveness, which is absolutely, in my opinion, an un

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Speaker 6: American and unfair, or you can talk about tax cuts

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Speaker 6: that are going to benefit all Americans and all Pennsylvanians.

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Speaker 6: And absolutely inflation is the most regressive tax at all.

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Speaker 6: So we've got to get inflation under control. But the

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Speaker 6: drivers of inflation are bad energy policy. They've driven up

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Speaker 6: the prices of fuel and too much spending. And so

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Speaker 6: I would say reversing certainly some of those Biden spending

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Speaker 6: bills and rolling back the war on natural gas and

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Speaker 6: fossil fuels is the key to getting our economy back

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Speaker 6: in check. And I wouldn't, particularly now, when so many

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Speaker 6: families are burdened by this inflation, I wouldn't burden them

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Speaker 6: further by rolling back the tax cuts the President Trump place.

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Speaker 5: Speaking of burdens on families, you know, when you think

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Speaker 5: about the deficit issue largely in the US, doesn't mean

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Speaker 5: that you've also ruled out the idea of more spending

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Speaker 5: or slow and spending rather on Medicare and Social Security

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Speaker 5: doesn't be part of the solution in closing that gap.

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Speaker 6: Well, I think the primary thing we need to do

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Speaker 6: now is roll back some of the spending that President

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Speaker 6: Biden has been in place. Again, I keep pointing to

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Speaker 6: it because it's such an obvious one is the one

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Speaker 6: hundred and sixty eight billion dollars of most recent student

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Speaker 6: loan forgiveness. I mean, look at that, it's extraoriny. That's

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Speaker 6: the size of the army's budget. That kind of spending

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Speaker 6: doesn't make sense to most Americans. So we've got to

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Speaker 6: roll back that spending. We've got to attack a number

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Speaker 6: of sources of discretionary spending. And certainly when you look

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Speaker 6: down the road, there's questions around entitlements, but the basic

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Speaker 6: premise there you have to start with this. We have

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Speaker 6: to live up to the obligations that we promise people.

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Speaker 6: And so it's you know, it's a balancing act for sure,

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Speaker 6: but a pro growth economic agenda that deregulates that allows

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Speaker 6: businesses to grow is going to be the primary driver

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Speaker 6: of driving tax receipts. We've got to drive back or

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Speaker 6: pull back on spending. I certainly agree with that, but

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Speaker 6: the starting point has to be the war on oil

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Speaker 6: and gas, which which has hindered us dramatically, and some

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Speaker 6: of the priorities which I honestly think are indefensive. One

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Speaker 6: the most notable one is the student loan forgiveness.

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Speaker 3: Well, we should note I realized that you're speaking in

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Speaker 3: some cases here about the moratorium on new LNG permits,

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Speaker 3: but the United States is pumping more oil than it

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Speaker 3: has ever in history right now. Dave, I want to

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Speaker 3: ask you about your policy or your proposals if you're

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Speaker 3: elected on Israel. I'd like to get to Israel if

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Speaker 3: we can here to try to get to as many

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Speaker 3: topics as we can. Dave, there are a lot of

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Speaker 3: questions about whether we're going to see a cease fire

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Speaker 3: at any point soon, and I wonder if you think

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Speaker 3: that Israel should declare war on Hesbolah, if that is

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Speaker 3: in fact the mission here for Israel to combat the

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Speaker 3: influence of Iran proxies. Iranian proxies that have brought so

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Speaker 3: much terror to Israel and a very difficult quagmire that

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Speaker 3: we find ourselves in now.

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Speaker 6: My wife and I went to Israel right after Christmas

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Speaker 6: and saw firsthand the horrible Barbara that happened October seventh,

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Speaker 6: and are fully supportive of Israel doing what it must

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Speaker 6: do to eradicate Hamas and destroy that threat. I'm not

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Speaker 6: going to comment on what Israel should do in terms

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Speaker 6: of dealing with Hasblid much more confidence in their ability

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Speaker 6: to decide what's best for Israel as a democracy. What

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Speaker 6: I will say is that they are absolutely being attacked

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Speaker 6: from all sides by these proxy that are underwritten by

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Speaker 6: Iran and the original sin. The thing that put us

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Speaker 6: in this position was President Obama's deal in twenty fifteen

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Speaker 6: to give back one hundred million dollars of sanctioned money,

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Speaker 6: and the deciding vote on that was Bob Casey and

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Speaker 6: my opponent in the Senate race. And that money is

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Speaker 6: being used to underwrite terrorist groups, the UTIs, has Belazlami

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Speaker 6: ji Hut and of course Hamas, and We're gonna have

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Speaker 6: to deal with that. Israel's gonna have to deal with that.

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Speaker 6: And a final point, this is not just a war

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Speaker 6: against Israel. This is very much directed at the West,

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Speaker 6: and sadly, it's raising the risk for Americans around the

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Speaker 6: world and in the Middle East.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let me guys ask you this from another angle though, Dave.

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Speaker 4: As we wait for a.

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Speaker 3: Possible ceasefire, and you look at the destruction that has

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Speaker 3: been wrought in Gaza, more than thirty thousand civilians killed

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Speaker 3: according to the Gaza Health Ministry, at what point is

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Speaker 3: the response disproportionate?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, well, listen, I obviously watch the same clips you

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Speaker 6: do when you see human suffering and innocent people injured

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Speaker 6: or killed. It's heartbreaking. You know, the source of this

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Speaker 6: pain is Hamas that has integrated itself into the civilian population.

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Speaker 6: Their explicit strategy is to increase civilian casualties. And Israel

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Speaker 6: certainly has every right to eradicate the risks that destroyed

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Speaker 6: the lives of twelve hundred Israelis, and you know, hopefully

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Speaker 6: we're going to be able to find resolution on that soon.

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Speaker 6: I think it's very difficult to imagine Israel letting a

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Speaker 6: military capability can continue with Hamas, and so I'll leave

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Speaker 6: it to them to figure out the best timing and

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Speaker 6: path for that. But obviously I was very gratified to

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Speaker 6: see all the efforts that are being put in place

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Speaker 6: to allow humanitarian corridors, to allow as much humanitarian support

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Speaker 6: as possible into Gaza. And it's absolutely heartbreaking to see

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Speaker 6: not only what happened on October seventh, but to see

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Speaker 6: innocence killed in Gaza. But make no mistake, the root

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Speaker 6: of this, the root cause, the source of this evil,

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Speaker 6: and the culpable party is Hamas.

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Speaker 5: Dave. Before we let you go here, I do want

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Speaker 5: to get your thoughts on the US election this cycle here,

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Speaker 5: especially because you yourself are also on the campaign trail

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Speaker 5: and going around the country looking for fresh donors, new fundraising.

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Speaker 7: What is it.

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Speaker 5: About Donald Trump that Wall Street finds attractive at this point,

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Speaker 5: because we know that even those who have shied away

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Speaker 5: after January sixth, some of them have come back in

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Speaker 5: the fundraising circuit. What is it that they're latching onto.

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Speaker 6: Well, I think the primary thing is that the country's

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Speaker 6: just going in a really bad direction, and most Americans

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Speaker 6: see it. So the economy I talked about, there's certainly

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Speaker 6: positive economic factors, but for sixty percent of Americans, they're

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Speaker 6: living paycheck to paycheck, and compounded inflation is really driven

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Speaker 6: higher prices have really made it much harder for them

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Speaker 6: to make ends meet. You see it with the border crisis,

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Speaker 6: ten million illegal migrants coming into the country, a huge

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Speaker 6: national security risk, a huge fentannel risk. You see this

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Speaker 6: in the which we just talked about, the war on

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Speaker 6: oil and gas, which is particularly a big deal for

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Speaker 6: Pennsylvania and many states across our great country. So I

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Speaker 6: think the policies of President Biden are taking us in

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Speaker 6: a terrible direction. And I think that people compare the

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Speaker 6: policies of President Trump with the policies of President Biden

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Speaker 6: and say, you know what, we were better off and

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Speaker 6: our future was much brighter under the leadership of President Trump.

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Speaker 6: I think that's what's happening. That's certainly what's happening on

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Speaker 6: the ground in Pennsylvania. And I'm running as someone who's

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Speaker 6: an independent voice, be someone who will fight for the

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Speaker 6: fight for the interest of Pennsylvanian someone who's led in

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Speaker 6: the military, created jobs in Pennsylvania, led companies, and someone

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Speaker 6: who can get into the Senate and make a real

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Speaker 6: difference and be a real advocate for policies that help Pennsylvanians.

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Speaker 5: We have to leave it there. Dave McCormick, Republican candidate

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Speaker 5: for Senate in Pennsylvania. We thank you for your time today.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens

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Speaker 2: just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apple car Play

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Speaker 2: and then ron Oro with the Bloomberg Business app. You

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Speaker 2: can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship

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Speaker 2: New York station, Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven.

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Speaker 3: Thirty fascinating conversation and a taste there of our back

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Speaker 3: and forth today with Dave McCormick. I'm Joe Matthew in

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Speaker 3: Washington alongside Kaylee Lines. That Senate race is going to

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Speaker 3: be one that decides the balance of power in the

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Speaker 3: United States Senate, and it also happens to be one

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Speaker 3: of the most important swing states for Joe Biden. It'll

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Speaker 3: be interesting to see how the top of the ticket

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Speaker 3: argues potentially with what's below it.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, how much split voting you actually may see come November.

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Speaker 8: Of course, we still have a long way to go

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Speaker 8: before actual election day. In the meantime, the country tomorrow

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Speaker 8: is getting ready to mark Juneteenth. This, of course, became

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Speaker 8: a federal holiday just three years ago in twenty twenty

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Speaker 8: one under the Biden administration, commemorating the end of slavery

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Speaker 8: in the United States. It has been one hundred and

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Speaker 8: fifty nine years tomorrow since that day, and we wanted

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Speaker 8: to have an important conversation now with Hillary Shelton. He

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Speaker 8: is National Advisor of Governance and Policy for the NAACP,

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Speaker 8: and he is joining us here in our Washington, d C.

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Speaker 7: Studio.

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Speaker 8: Hillary, Welcome to Balance of Power. Thank you so much

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Speaker 8: for being with us. Of course, a lot of progress

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Speaker 8: was made to get to juneteenth. Certainly there has been

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Speaker 8: progress made in one hundred and fifty nine years since,

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Speaker 8: but there are also areas in which more progress still

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Speaker 8: needs to be made. As we get ready to mark

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Speaker 8: June teenth tomorrow, what is your view of how far

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Speaker 8: we've come and how much further there is to go?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 9: I think as we're talked about how far we've come,

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Speaker 9: it's important to recognize that we want to make sure

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Speaker 9: that it's clear that is that as a society and

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Speaker 9: a country, that we recognize what had gone wrong and

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Speaker 9: that we moved to do the right thing in the

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Speaker 9: right direction. Even as we recognized the nineteenth as June teenth,

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Speaker 9: we know that the Emancipation's Proclamation, so to speak, was

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Speaker 9: actually something they had to roll out and work its

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Speaker 9: way to Texas, and it wasn't until it got there

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Speaker 9: that we were actually able to fully recognize, with support

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Speaker 9: of the new government of our country, that much more

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Speaker 9: needs to be done. But we've accomplished an awful lot

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Speaker 9: by being able to eradicate and recognize how awful slavery was.

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Speaker 9: As we're looking ahead, we're thinking about things to make

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Speaker 9: sure that it still lives up. We know that even

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Speaker 9: as we were recognized the end of slavery, we still

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Speaker 9: had to clare with the constitution meant to as the

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Speaker 9: term was ues, even those of former servitude, that is,

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Speaker 9: those who had been enslaved in our country and other

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Speaker 9: people as well. There. It's amazing how the impact of

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Speaker 9: slavery economically hit so many different places, in so many

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Speaker 9: different ways in our country, and eliminating that awful scourge

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Speaker 9: was something moved us forward and unified us even greater

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Speaker 9: as a nation.

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Speaker 3: Well, you go back three years to Kailly's point, to

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Speaker 3: where we were as this became an official federal holiday.

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Speaker 3: Markets are going to be closed tomorrow. It's pretty remarkable achievement.

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Speaker 3: But go back another year, four years ago to the

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Speaker 3: death of George Floyd that was critical mass leading to

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Speaker 3: this holiday, and we've seen a lot of promises made

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Speaker 3: then not kept when it comes to DEI policies, when

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Speaker 3: it comes to investments that many major corporations promised to make.

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Speaker 3: How important is it to go back three or four

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Speaker 3: years to those initial promises and that feeling that this

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Speaker 3: country had to remind ourselves of what's important.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's extremely important.

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Speaker 9: It's extremely important that we gauge the improvements that we

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Speaker 9: make are quite frankly, where we fall behind and the

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Speaker 9: promises made, and we were.

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Speaker 1: Disappointed what has transpired in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 9: Yes, there's so many things that still should be done,

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Speaker 9: so as much as it hasn't transpired, hopefully we'll learn

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Speaker 9: from our mistakes of the fix that wasn't taken and

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Speaker 9: what needs to be done to make sure we live

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Speaker 9: up to those promises.

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Speaker 1: That is, when we watched George Floyd.

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Speaker 9: I think one of the reasons so many Americans were

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Speaker 9: so outraged that we saw what was happening. Perhaps new

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Speaker 9: technology added quite a bit to us sing what was

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Speaker 9: going on and watching this man literally being assassinated on

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Speaker 9: the streets in our country and whatnot for no good reason.

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Speaker 9: The police were overly a grubbed or overly violent. It

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Speaker 9: was a big problem. We'd put TV cameras on police offices,

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Speaker 9: body cams as we call them, and whatnot, but they

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Speaker 9: still didn't meet the need of our communities to make

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Speaker 9: sure that there's oversight that very well people's rights are

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Speaker 9: protected as we move and the important role of our

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Speaker 9: law enforcement officials and being able to secure those things,

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Speaker 9: and even the trust between those who live in our

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Speaker 9: country and those who work for our governments.

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Speaker 8: What about the role of the people who make the laws,

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Speaker 8: as there are members of Congress who are sitting in

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Speaker 8: those halls now who are actively pushing back against the

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Speaker 8: entire notion of DEI of things like affirmative action. What

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Speaker 8: do you still hope to see from Congress?

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Speaker 1: We hope this said.

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Speaker 9: Congress began with continuing to analyze the data as we

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Speaker 9: move ahead, being able to know what the numbers are

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Speaker 9: and see where we've continued to move ahead and fixing

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Speaker 9: these problems or whether we've fallen behind. In so many

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Speaker 9: cases we've seen that as well. George Floyd was a

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Speaker 9: falling behind because George Floyd came after Ferguson Missouri. It

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Speaker 9: came after so many other cases along those lines. We

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Speaker 9: thought in each of these steps we'd fix the problems,

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Speaker 9: and clearly we have it. So so you think about

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Speaker 9: what needs to be done now. We need to recalculate

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Speaker 9: those laws and actually repair them where we need to

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Speaker 9: repair them, fix them and improve them, change them, in

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Speaker 9: some cases, replace them so we have the great laws

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Speaker 9: that we can enforce that actually lead up to the

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Speaker 9: kind of support we want for our constitutional rights, so

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Speaker 9: eco protection and equal opportunity under law. We to make

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Speaker 9: sure we continue to gauge those issues along the SNES.

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Speaker 9: Even if we think about hate crimes in our country,

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Speaker 9: we still have to calculate the data. That is, we've

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Speaker 9: passed something called the Hate Crime Statistics Act first to

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Speaker 9: show that the data very clearly indicated that we had

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Speaker 9: a real problem with hate group activity, hate violence because

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Speaker 9: of race, gender, ethnics and other changes and so forth,

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Speaker 9: and it's something more needed to be done, and in

438
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 9: essence we began pushing that direction. We then pass the

439
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 9: Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which included the data and the

440
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 9: necessary resources to be able to accurately collect the data.

441
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 9: One of our big challenges now is that we have

442
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 9: jurisdictions that simply don't want to recognize that the crimes

443
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 9: that are committed are indeed hate crimes, and indeed the

444
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 9: commitment of a nation to actually emanate those hate crimes.

445
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 1: It's something we would work towards doing.

446
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 9: And once we were very clear there's still a problem,

447
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 9: so we have a lot to do.

448
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 4: You talk about the fix that wasn't taken. That's a

449
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 4: great phrase.

450
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 3: When we go back there and talk about some of

451
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 3: the things that you just said, some of the promises

452
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 3: that were made three and four years ago, we've actually

453
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 3: seen progress on the state level with things like body camps,

454
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 3: to your point, banning chokeholds, no knock warrants. That's all

455
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 3: been done on many cases on the state level. Is

456
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 3: the federal government then and Congress the hindrance to getting

457
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 3: further progress.

458
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,919
Speaker 9: Well, I would say that that they are major contributors

459
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 9: to the problem, because we do still have local and

460
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 9: state problems with the implementation of any of these programs

461
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 9: as well.

462
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: Sure did very well.

463
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 9: As we think about law enforcement officials, police officers, those

464
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 9: are basically controlled at the state and the local levels

465
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 9: the federal government oversight. As a matter of fact, the

466
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 9: Justice Department does a lot more to accurately collect that

467
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 9: data than some of the jurisdictions that are wanted to protect.

468
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 9: Whether it's there are tourism programs and whatnot that who

469
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 9: wants to go to a city or a state that

470
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 9: we know participates in racial violence or other things along

471
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 9: those lines. So they don't want the data to come

472
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 9: out sometimes, but you can't repair the problem if you

473
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 9: don't have that data. We can't do it right to

474
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 9: make sure everyone is protected along those lines. So being

475
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 9: able to do what we do at the federal level

476
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 9: is important too. So let me just say, nobody gets

477
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 9: a break. We need to make sure the federal government,

478
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 9: the state governments, and the municipalities are all actively involved

479
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 9: in working together in coalition to be able to address

480
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 9: these problems and fix these issues once.

481
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: And for all.

482
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 8: In our final moment with you, let's talk about the

483
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 8: head of the federal government. The next US president obviously

484
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 8: is still an open question. What is at stake for

485
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 8: people of color in this election depending on who ultimately wins.

486
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 9: Well, if you think about the issues that impact us

487
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 9: the most, the question that if you have to ask

488
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 9: of any candidate this running is where do you stand

489
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 9: on the issues? As we've seen the agenda of mister

490
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 9: Trump and the agenda of mister Biden. Let me first say,

491
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 9: the NAACPS and nonpartisan organization that does not endorse political

492
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 9: candidates our political parties, but we do pay very close

493
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 9: attention to the details and the policy itself. So the

494
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 9: question then is, as we think about why it is

495
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 9: we don't have more African Americans going to colleges and

496
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 9: universities and being able to become professionals because in many

497
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 9: cases they can't afford it.

498
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: Who's going to help us.

499
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 9: With those issues and what I actually think about things

500
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 9: on those times, whether it's student loans, whether we're talking

501
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 9: about grants, Well, let me just say that mister Biden

502
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 9: has indicated and has shown actually through his actions, that

503
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 9: he recognizes that problem.

504
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: Let me put it this way.

505
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 9: You're sitting next to a guy that barely made it

506
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 9: through on student loans. Though both my parents went to

507
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 9: college and very well, being able to raise the money

508
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 9: to get that good, high quality education really took a

509
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 9: lot of doing. It's not just education. We have to

510
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 9: talk about criminal justice the same way, and so many

511
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 9: other issues that affect all of us in our daily life.

512
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 3: Hillary Shelton, what a pleasure to have you with us

513
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 3: here at the table in Washington. Come back and see

514
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 3: us again on this day before Juneteenth. From the NUBACP,

515
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 3: I'm Joe Matthew with Kaylee Lyons on Bloomberg.

516
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

517
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 2: us live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apple car Play

518
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 2: and then Froudoto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on

519
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 2: demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live

520
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 2: on YouTube.

521
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 8: Here in Washington, where we're very interested in what's happening

522
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 8: today across the river in Virginia as its primary day,

523
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 8: and there's one rece in particular. We're watching Bob Good,

524
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 8: the incumbent, the chair of the House Freedom Caucus, against

525
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 8: his challenger, John McGuire, who is backed by Donald Trump.

526
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 8: But if you take a look at Donald Trump's true

527
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 8: social posts within the last twenty four hours, Joe, one

528
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 8: of them reads, this is the beginning. Bob Good is

529
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 8: bad for Virginia and bad for the USA.

530
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 4: That's pretty simple.

531
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 3: He held a tell a rally from McGuire last night,

532
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 3: said more things about Bob Good. Quote, if he's reelected,

533
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 3: he will stab Virginia in the back, sort of like

534
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,719
Speaker 3: he did with me. And that's where we start our

535
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 3: conversation with Mick mulvaney, co founder of the Freedom Caucus,

536
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 3: the group the Caucus that Bob Good now leads, A

537
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 3: former acting White House Chief of Staff and the Trump administration.

538
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 3: I could keep going, former OMB director. He's held half

539
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 3: the jobs in Washington. Nick Mulvaney, Welcome back to Bloomberg.

540
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 3: How are you looking at this settling scores or a

541
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 3: new fissure between Donald Trump and the Freedom Caucus in

542
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 3: the House.

543
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 10: Joe and Fairness a lot of more jobs than nobody

544
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 10: else wanted, so that doesn't really count the sadly, listen,

545
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 10: politics makes strange badfellows.

546
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 4: It just does, right.

547
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 10: I don't have any personal insight into the Trump support

548
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 10: for the good challenger. I obviously do have some on

549
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 10: the McCarthy angle there, And curiously, even more interesting to

550
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 10: me was Warren Davidson this morning, a sitting member of

551
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 10: the House Caucus, actually came out from MacGuire over the weekend.

552
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 10: So clearly there are things happening within the Freedom Caucus

553
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 10: that we don't hear that much about. There is has

554
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 10: been some discussions about whether or not they've sort of

555
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 10: strayed from their course or not. But it also could

556
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 10: come down to just friendships. McCarthy's certainly not a friendship.

557
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 10: McCarthy wants goods head on a platter. He did not

558
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 10: get in it Nancy Mace's last week here in South Carolina.

559
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 10: In fact, Nancy cruised to an easy re election here

560
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 10: in South Carolina, which I know stung Kevin a good bit.

561
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 10: So Kevin would love to get at least one scalp,

562
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 10: and with Trump on Maguire's side, Good might be that

563
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 10: one scalp that Kevin can claim.

564
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 8: So, Mick, as we think about how that changes the

565
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 8: dynamics within the House Freedom Caucus, as you say, even

566
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 8: a member of that caucus coming out against the chair

567
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 8: this weekend, would that actually be a catalyst for a reabsorption,

568
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 8: if you will, of the House Freedom Caucus with the

569
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 8: rest of the Republican Conference considering started to see a

570
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 8: break among conservatives in some sense, with that group and

571
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 8: then the larger one.

572
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 10: Bailly, you know, I've been looking for that, and I've

573
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 10: not seen it yet. I've been looking for that now

574
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 10: for eighteen months. I was looking for a little bit

575
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 10: of it during the during the Trump administration, when I

576
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 10: thought that the Freedom Caucus would come down more on

577
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 10: the fiscal tightening that they did. They weren't nearly as

578
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 10: fiscally tight as I thought they would be. They were

579
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 10: much more pro Trump. So I think they're probably staying there.

580
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 10: Here's what's going to happen, I think is that regardless

581
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 10: what happens with Good, the Freedom Caucus will re coalesce

582
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 10: around Donald Trump on the back side of these primaries,

583
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 10: which you're probably seeing are some family squabble, some personality issues,

584
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 10: and not really big macro trends within the caucus.

585
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 3: Abigail Spanberger's seat opening up as she runs for governor,

586
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 3: Mick and I wonder your thoughts on Eugene Vinman, the

587
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 3: retired Army colonel, of course, became a household name in

588
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 3: his role as a whistleblower in Donald Trump's first impeachment.

589
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 3: I live around here, and every time I turn on

590
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 3: the TV, I see a vinmin ad. I mean, you

591
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 3: literally just cannot hide from it. There are pictures of him,

592
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 3: his family. It's it's been an endless stream of TV

593
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 3: advertising as he raises a boatload of money here I

594
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 3: think it was five million dollars and he's got something

595
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 3: like six opponents. What's your thought on the role that

596
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 3: he could play here in congressional politics?

597
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 4: Can he win this seat well?

598
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 10: In Virginia? Right now? The answer is sure, anybody could win.

599
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 10: I've seen some data that says that says Trump is

600
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 10: neck and neck with Biden in Virginia. Now I don't

601
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 10: I don't believe that that. You know that just that

602
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 10: doesn't feel right, But the poll was there was a

603
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 10: halfway decent poll, and it was after the conviction in

604
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 10: New York City. So I don't know what's happening in

605
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 10: Virginia at the local level. Well, Vinman doesn't surprise It

606
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 10: doesn't surprise me that he's he's doing what he's doing

607
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:04,959
Speaker 10: as well as he's doing it.

608
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: He was.

609
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 10: Look, you want to talk about getting personalities involved. I'm

610
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 10: absolutely convinced that that's what drove a large part of

611
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 10: his involvement in the first impeachment, so that.

612
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 4: He wanted to run for Congress.

613
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 10: Absolutely, he was a publicity hound. I'd never heard of

614
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 10: the guy before. No one had ever heard of the guy.

615
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 10: But he's trying to the phone call. That's like, but

616
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 10: just goes to show you who's on the calls. I

617
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 10: wasn't even on the call. So but anyway, that's going

618
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 10: back a couple of years. Look, Virginia is an interesting

619
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 10: place right now. The Democrats are losing ground in the

620
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 10: rural areas. You guys live there, you know it. It's

621
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 10: probably more bifurcated than any state in the nation. You've

622
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 10: got two states. You've got sort of the northern Virginia suburbs,

623
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 10: and then you've got the rest of the state. And

624
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 10: it'll be really curious to see whether or not these

625
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 10: primaries are any sort of bell weather going into November,

626
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 10: and whether or not these numbers you're seeing the shows

627
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 10: Trump pulling closer to Biden or anything close to reality.

628
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 8: Yeah, this Virginia thing keeps coming up. We know that

629
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 8: Donald Trump raised it and his meeting with House Republicans

630
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 8: here in Washington last week. Lawmakers who were in the

631
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 8: room told me he's looking to spend money in Virginia,

632
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 8: also New York and New Jersey. I guess we have

633
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 8: to consider whether we need to expand our understanding of

634
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,479
Speaker 8: what the battleground states actually are. But Mick, while he

635
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 8: was in Washington, he wasn't just talking to lawmakers. He

636
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 8: also had a meeting with the Business Roundtable and a

637
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 8: number of high profile executives. The scuttle butt is a

638
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 8: lot of them walked out of that room feeling a

639
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 8: little bit disconcerted about what Donald Trump was saying and

640
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 8: maybe the manner in which he was saying it. If

641
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 8: you're an executive right now looking at this election, should

642
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 8: you more welcome the idea of some of the policies

643
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 8: a second Trump administration would bring in terms of tax

644
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 8: relief and deregulation, or should you be concerned with the

645
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 8: idea of the general uncertainty, it could bring.

646
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 10: A couple of things. I do put some weight on

647
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 10: the first hand comments that some of the CEO's made.

648
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 10: Let's talk talk about that a second. To answer your question,

649
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 10: A lot of the scuttle butt comes from some of

650
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 10: the reporting that somebody from a different network, a different

651
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 10: financial news network that I'm familiar with and do occasionally

652
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 10: came from. And I can assure you that that person

653
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 10: is no big fan of Donald Trump.

654
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 4: I read the accounts. I didn't see in the video.

655
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 10: I don't think there was any video, and it sounded

656
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 10: like every other CEO meeting I've ever had with Donald Trump.

657
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 10: Was he wide ranging? Was he going from topic to topic?

658
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: Yes?

659
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 10: Was he disjointed? Yes, That's every single meeting that every

660
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 10: CEO has ever had with Donald Trump. So I'm not

661
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 10: sure why people say they were surprised by this. I

662
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 10: didn't hear anything that was any different in twenty seventeen,

663
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 10: twenty eighteen. So if I'm a CEO, what am I

664
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 10: asking myself? Okay, I've never liked that. I'd never liked

665
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,240
Speaker 10: the package anyway. But let me look at the policies.

666
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 10: Let me look how it was for business. What is

667
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 10: Donald Trump really believe in. He really believes in tariffs,

668
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 10: he really believes in deregulation, and he really believes in

669
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 10: a simpler tax code. You know, if you're a corporate ceo,

670
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 10: goodness gracious, if you're an ordinary person, that might be compelling. Look,

671
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 10: there's a lot of folks who don't like a stile.

672
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 10: I struggle with a style from time to time. We've

673
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 10: talked about that. But at the end of the day,

674
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 10: I think the CEOs are looking their hands over and say,

675
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 10: this is a choice between Biden policies in Trump policies,

676
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 10: and I wouldn't be surprised that they come down on

677
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 10: Trump's sign.

678
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 3: We talked to David McCormick last hour, running for the

679
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 3: Senate in Pennsylvania. Republican asked him about Donald Trump's proposals

680
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 3: for tariffs and making the twenty seventeen tax cuts permanent.

681
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 4: How to pay for them? The question here.

682
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 3: He basically said, you pay for these through growth. And

683
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 3: I know that Donald Trump has taken a couple of

684
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 3: stabs at this including offsetting the impact of tax cuts

685
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 3: with higher tariffs. But the issue of deficits not going

686
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 3: away here, Mick. We're not talking about reforming Medicare and

687
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 3: social Security. We're not talking about pronounced spending cuts. So

688
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 3: are the CEOs in that room only concerned with the

689
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 3: immediate term here cut red tape, cut taxes or are

690
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 3: they worried about the long term corrosive effect of deficits.

691
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 10: You've asked a bunch of questions of the cynic and

692
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 10: me will tell you that they're just interested in the

693
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 10: short term balance sheets at the p and LS. I

694
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 10: hear Jamie Diamond talk about the threats of the deficit,

695
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 10: but he was one of the largest voices for stimulus

696
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 10: in two thousand and eight, nine and ten, twenty, nineteen,

697
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 10: twenty twenty. I get it. But welcome to the party,

698
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 10: is all I can say is that, you know, been

699
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 10: a lot of folks in Washington worried about the death

700
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 10: for a long time. Glad to have some big names

701
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 10: along for the ride. On the tariff plan for taxes

702
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,959
Speaker 10: that one. I don't don't put any credence in at all.

703
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 10: The idea of raising tariffs to get rid of the

704
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 10: income tax. That was a throwaway line. It takes you.

705
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 10: I've talked to the policy people inside the Trump policy team.

706
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 10: None of them have mentioned that that specific proposal to

707
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 10: me in my many conversations with him. I think it

708
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 10: was an off the cuff for Mark designed to sort

709
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 10: of measure out where people how people felt about tariffs.

710
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 10: Besides Joe Kayley, if you do the math, it doesn't work.

711
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 10: Income text chairs just north of two trillion dollars a year.

712
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 10: We import about four trillion dollars a year. That's a

713
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 10: fifty percent tariff on a static basis. But of course

714
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 10: if you put a fifty percent tariff on something, you

715
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 10: probably import less, So you're not going to generate that

716
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 10: two point two. It's a it's a it's a it's

717
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 10: a it's a cycle into disaster. Yeah, So this math

718
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 10: doesn't work on tariff's replacing INGRAM taxes. But tariff's are real,

719
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 10: and he's serious about extending the tax cuts. He's serious

720
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 10: about taking the corporate text right down from twenty one

721
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 10: to twenty. He always wanted twenty in the to begin with,

722
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 10: back in two thousand and seventeen when they cut the

723
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 10: original deal. So that's going to be a priority for

724
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 10: him on day one.

725
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 8: All right, Mick mlvaney, former acting White House Chief of Staff,

726
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 8: former O and B director, founder of the Freedom Caucus,

727
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 8: former congressman from North Carolina or South Carolina, rather too

728
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 8: many titles, Mick, thank you so much for joining us.

729
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 8: We want to get an economist's view now on what

730
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 8: we just talked about with Mick there, and bring in

731
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 8: Kitty Richard. She is Groundwork Collaborative senior strategic advisor who

732
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 8: is here with us in our Washington studio. So, Kitty,

733
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 8: we also want to talk to you about the retail

734
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 8: sales data that we got today, which was a lot

735
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 8: weaker than expected. If we could first begin though, with

736
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 8: what we're all talking about here in Washington as of late,

737
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 8: higher tariffs in exchange for lower taxes. Does this make

738
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 8: any economic sense in your mind?

739
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 11: Thank you so much for having me on. You know,

740
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,280
Speaker 11: I actually rarely find myself saying that I would agree

741
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 11: with what mcmulvaney just said. But I don't think that

742
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,760
Speaker 11: we should take former President Trump seriously when he talks

743
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 11: about paying for getting rid of the income tax with

744
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 11: higher tariffs. But I do think that we should really

745
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 11: think about why he is throwing that out to test

746
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 11: the waters, and what his real commitments are is cutting

747
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 11: taxes for the wealthy and for big corporations. And that's

748
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 11: what we just heard. It's what we hear over and

749
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 11: over on the campaign trail, and that's the part that

750
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 11: I do think we really need to take seriously. And frankly,

751
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 11: we have been experimenting with huge cuts to taxes for

752
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,760
Speaker 11: the wealthy and corporations over the last forty to fifty years.

753
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 11: At this point, they have not delivered for the American people,

754
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 11: and that's why they're so deeply, deeply unpopular, and so

755
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 11: any claims that this is going to be positive and

756
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:20,439
Speaker 11: grow the economy really are just more of the same

757
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 11: failed trickle down economics.

758
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 3: If these tax cuts were made permanent, though, and there's

759
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 3: no effort to offset them to pay for them. On

760
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 3: Capitol Hill, what do you say to those Trump supporters

761
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 3: who say it's about growth, that we will grow our

762
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 3: way out of the deaficity.

763
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 11: Yeah, so, you know, the corporate side of the Trump

764
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 11: tax cuts actually are permanent, and they were the largest

765
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:44,359
Speaker 11: part of the TCJA's revenue raiser or revenue losers, and

766
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 11: they have completely failed to deliver the Trump administration. So

767
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 11: on the individual side, I think again, the model of

768
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 11: growth that is built on funneling more and more cash

769
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:00,760
Speaker 11: to the very wealthiest in this country has not delivered

770
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 11: for working people. It hasn't delivered for families. And I'd

771
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 11: also like to talk about you know, we hear a

772
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 11: lot of concern about the deficit. What I'm concerned about

773
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 11: is using these huge deficits that have been entirely created

774
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 11: by first the Bush tax cuts and then their extension,

775
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,399
Speaker 11: and then the Trump tax cuts on top of them,

776
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 11: as justification for cutting the programs that families and seniors

777
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 11: rely on in their day to day economic lives. I

778
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 11: think that is really really dangerous for economic growth as

779
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 11: well as for the pocketbooks of ordinary Americans.

780
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 8: Well, when considering dangerous to economic growth, we know the

781
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 8: consumer is the engine for that. And if you look

782
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 8: at the retail sales data we got this morning, it

783
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 8: would seem that there are signs that the consumer at

784
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 8: the very least is slowing down, if not starting to

785
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 8: crack in a more material way. It's not just the

786
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 8: only tenth of a percent month on month figure that

787
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 8: we got, but the downward revision from the month prior. Kitty,

788
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 8: how concerned are you by the data we've.

789
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 10: Just seen come in?

790
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 11: So I'm concerned primarily because over the last year eighteen months,

791
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 11: as the FED has pursued its rate hiking campaign, the

792
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:10,919
Speaker 11: American consumer has actually been surprisingly resilient and that has

793
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 11: driven a strong labor market, had good spillover effects into wages.

794
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 11: Those are all positive things, but it's sort of been

795
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 11: a question of when that would start to pull back.

796
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 11: And this data, on top of what we're seeing with

797
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,919
Speaker 11: growing credit card balances and delinquencies, we're starting to see

798
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 11: some stress on American families who have run through the

799
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 11: little bit of savings that they were able to accumulate

800
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 11: during the pandemic and are facing higher prices, especially on

801
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,959
Speaker 11: things like housing and childcare, where the Fed's not really

802
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 11: able to bring those prices down, and in fact, those

803
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 11: high interest rates are really taxing American families very directly.

804
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 3: Kitty, we just have a minute left. When you hear

805
00:41:56,239 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 3: Walmart talk about affluent people trading down to shop at

806
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 3: their stores as opposed to going out to whatever luxury

807
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 3: retailer they might be used to, what does that tell

808
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 3: you about where we're going to be six months from now.

809
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 11: You know, I think that the good side of that

810
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 11: is that we should have retailers competing on price. What

811
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 11: we've seen instead over the past eighteen months is prices

812
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 11: going up and up and retailers really absorbing that and

813
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 11: creating higher profit margins for themselves. So I like to

814
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 11: see that competition going. But what we really want to

815
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 11: see is that competition leading to lower prices for all consumers,

816
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 11: leading to higher wages for workers and for families to

817
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 11: be able to get ahead on the things that really matter,

818
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 11: like education and healthcare, childcare, housing. And so that's what

819
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 11: I want us to focus on, and I think that's

820
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,439
Speaker 11: really what the FED needs to be focused on as well.

821
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 3: It's great to have you at the table. Thank you

822
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 3: for coming to talk to us. Thank you from the

823
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 3: Groundwork Collaborative. She's senior strategic advisor, Kitty Richard's many thanks

824
00:42:58,640 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 3: for being with us today.

825
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens

826
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 2: just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then

827
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 2: Ronoo with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen

828
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 2: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,

829
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 2: Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

830
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 3: Great to have you with us on Bloomberg Radio, on

831
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 3: the satellite and on YouTube. It's Ballance of Power, the

832
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 3: fastest show in politics, and we've covered some ground already

833
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 3: this hour. We're not done yet with our eyes on

834
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 3: the campaign trail, even though the White House probably would

835
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 3: not want me to be framing it this way. Joe

836
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 3: Biden announcing today a streamlined path to legal status for

837
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,439
Speaker 3: more than five hundred thousand immigrants making his administrations brought

838
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 3: us efforts so far to offer deportation protections, knowing that

839
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 3: Donald Trump is promising the biggest deportation in the history

840
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:01,320
Speaker 3: of America. It's still unclear exactly on how that would work,

841
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 3: so we move to the democratic side of things. We

842
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:08,919
Speaker 3: talked to Dave McCormick earlier, the Republican Senate candidate in Pennsylvania.

843
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 3: We talked to Greg Duo about the Trump effect on

844
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 3: this primary day. We assembled our panel now with what's

845
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 3: coming out of the Biden White House and the Biden campaign.

846
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 3: With me in studio is Genie Shanzey, no Bloomberg Politics contributor.

847
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 3: And Rick Davis is with us as well. Bloomberg Politics contributor.

848
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 3: Great to see you both here with some important stuff

849
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 3: to talk about.

850
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 4: Genie, I'll start with you on this.

851
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 3: Joe Biden's been getting an earfull on the border, not

852
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 3: just from Republicans criticizing him for being too light on

853
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 3: the border, but from progressive Democrats who don't think he

854
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,879
Speaker 3: has done enough for legal immigration for Dreamers, as they

855
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 3: call them. Does this help to quell some of that upset.

856
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 7: It should help to quell it.

857
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 12: I think what the administration is saying here is that

858
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 12: we agree with Republicans and the American people that our

859
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 12: immigration system is broken and has been for decades. We

860
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:01,399
Speaker 12: agree we need to strengthen the bord and we need

861
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,879
Speaker 12: to protect our border, but we also agree that our

862
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 12: processes have broken down, and one of those processes is

863
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 12: addressed today in this EO critically important, which is that

864
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 12: if you are married to an American citizen, that there

865
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 12: will be a pathway for you to be in this

866
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 12: country legally. And you know, I can just tell you,

867
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,280
Speaker 12: and I don't know your experience growing up. My experience

868
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 12: in growing up in the US was that we were

869
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 12: taught if you married a US citizen, you automatically became

870
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 12: a US citizen.

871
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:33,720
Speaker 7: That is not the case.

872
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 12: The case is you then apply and then in many

873
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 12: cases are sent out of the country for ten years,

874
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 12: and what that does to the children of people in

875
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 12: this position. So I think they're trying to fix a

876
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 12: very broken process and at the same time protect the border,

877
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 12: and that is.

878
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 7: Very, very important.

879
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 12: And the polls show that the American public supports both

880
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 12: of those things. So from that perspective, I hope it

881
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 12: quells and it shows that the Democrats are taking a

882
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 12: positive step to address this, whereas the Republicans have just

883
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 12: been sitting there saying, we don't want to address the

884
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 12: problem until our guy is in the office, and that's

885
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 12: not the way we should run our policy.

886
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 4: Well, I'm glad the way you described this.

887
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 3: Under the policy that's being proposed here, eligible spouses and

888
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,760
Speaker 3: children of American citizens who have been in the country

889
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:19,720
Speaker 3: for at least a decade would be able to apply

890
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,399
Speaker 3: for lawful permanent residents without first being forced to leave

891
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 3: the country, as Genie says, which is currently the case.

892
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 4: Rick, is this.

893
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 3: Good politics for Joe Biden or just another reason for

894
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 3: Republicans to call them softs on immigration?

895
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 13: Yeah? I wouldn't get too in love with Genie's analysis.

896
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 13: Somehow Republicans and Democrats agree on this, and I know

897
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 13: that's not exactly what you were saying, but kind of

898
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 13: the implication. Eighty five percent of Democrats, according to a

899
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 13: recent pupoll, love this policy that Biden has just announced.

900
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 13: You know, let them stay, let them work it out,

901
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 13: go for citizenship while they're in the country. Once they're here,

902
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 13: they should be able to stick around. Seventy percent of

903
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,760
Speaker 13: Republicans think, no, this is not the law.

904
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 4: The law says they got to go, just like.

905
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 13: Genny said, and they should be deported, and they should

906
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,359
Speaker 13: be deported in mass if need be. And so it

907
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:16,760
Speaker 13: is a very very split issue in America. There isn't

908
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 13: a consensus, certainly by Republicans or Democrats, or Trump supporters

909
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 13: or Biden supporters about what needs to be done on this.

910
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 13: So Biden is definitely leaning into his base on this.

911
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:31,320
Speaker 13: In his base is almost in unanimous support of this policy.

912
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 13: I would say he was doing better a month ago

913
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 13: when he announced through executive orders, you know, some curbs

914
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 13: on immigration once they hit a certain threshold. And so

915
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 13: that was much more crossing the line of partisanship and

916
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 13: giving Republicans a little bit of flavor that he can

917
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 13: go both ways on immigration. But look, I mean, all

918
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:56,280
Speaker 13: of this is case by case. We need comprehensive immigration reform.

919
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 13: None of this is going to fix the problem on

920
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 13: a small ball basis. But you know, I think that

921
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 13: Biden administration probably felt like they did a good thing

922
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 13: politically last month and wanted to follow up with more

923
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 13: work on immigration this month.

924
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 3: Because that's the knock from the president's left here.

925
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:16,919
Speaker 4: Right.

926
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 3: We had a huge debate about border security, but not

927
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,800
Speaker 3: about legal immigration, which the country needs, the job market

928
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 3: needs to function. Is this the way the president is

929
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 3: answering that?

930
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 7: It is in part the way he's answering it.

931
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 4: It's far from comprehensive.

932
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:35,800
Speaker 7: It's far from it. And that wasn't his choice.

933
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 12: That was the choice of the Republicans, who, after negotiating

934
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 12: a bipartisan bill which had widespread bipartisan support, it was

935
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 12: not passed because Donald Trump said he didn't want to

936
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 12: give Joe Biden a win. That left the President either

937
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 12: doing nothing, which he's not comfortable with, or going ahead

938
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 12: securing the border and trying to take steps to fix

939
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 12: a broken immigration process as best a president can VIAEO.

940
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 12: When Congress is doing nothing about it. I mean, I

941
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 12: agree with Rick. I think it's important we get comprehensive

942
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:10,240
Speaker 12: immigration reform. I wish the Republicans agreed and the Democrats

943
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 12: and Republicans could come together and do that. I also

944
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 12: agree with Rick. I like to spread the love, so

945
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 12: you know, I like to do that as well. But

946
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 12: where we are, the president has to not just be

947
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 12: wishing for things that aren't there, but he has to

948
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 12: act as best he can legally, and that's what he's

949
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 12: done here. But let's not forget the people helped by

950
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 12: this order as long as it stays in place, are

951
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 12: our friends, our neighbors, our coworkers, our colleagues. These are

952
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,439
Speaker 12: people in our country who have been here, in many

953
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:44,479
Speaker 12: cases for decades. Fifty thousand children who are here who

954
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 12: should not be victimized by a horrible, horrible process that

955
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 12: is broken at this point. So I think the president,

956
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 12: and if it was Donald Trump, I'd say the same thing.

957
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 12: Fix the process. I wish Congress did it, but they're not.

958
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 4: Rick.

959
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 3: The President's rolling this out today at a White House

960
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 3: event commemorating the anniversary of the DHACA program Deferred Action

961
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 3: for child's arrivals if.

962
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 4: You weren't there for that whole experience.

963
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 3: Are you surprised we don't hear about this part of

964
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 3: the conversation any longer in Washington. Have Democrats lost the

965
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 3: edge on this or has everyone come to agree that

966
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 3: security needs to be handled first.

967
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 13: I think that there's a general consensus that politically, you

968
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 13: need to be talking about border security first. I mean,

969
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 13: the unregulated border over the last three years has caused

970
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:34,320
Speaker 13: a lot of displacement around the country, not just border states,

971
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 13: but you know, Texas and Florida shipping immigrants to places

972
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 13: like New York and Chicago, and you know, Martha's Vineyard

973
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 13: has caused a great stir within the Democratic administration and voters,

974
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 13: and so yeah, I think there's consensus that you've got

975
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 13: to get control of the border. And what's ironic is

976
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 13: you've got sort of the least number of border crossings

977
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 13: that we've had in you know, a couple of years

978
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 13: happening right now. So border crossings haven't actually been a

979
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 13: big problem in the last couple of months. You know,

980
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 13: since December, I think we had three hundred thousand border crossings,

981
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:14,360
Speaker 13: and you know, this last two weeks, you know, a

982
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 13: couple thousand, So that is I think one of the

983
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 13: top issues. Then you can play around with things like this,

984
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 13: but DACA has been around for the longest period of

985
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 13: time that has gone least address I know. I remember

986
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 13: Lindsey Graham going into the Oval Office with Donald Trump

987
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 13: trying to get DAKA fixed. I mean, it's the easiest.

988
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 4: Fix in the world.

989
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 13: It's a compassion issue, and yet no administration has made

990
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,760
Speaker 13: any progress on it, not Obama, not Trump, not Biden.

991
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 13: It's it's a real failure of the political process to

992
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:44,240
Speaker 13: leave these kids behind.

993
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 4: There you have it from Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano.

994
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:49,800
Speaker 3: By the way, I will mention a story on the

995
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 3: terminal border crossings fall materially since Biden plan.

996
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,359
Speaker 4: According to Allehundro Maiorcis, the Homeland.

997
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 3: Security Secretary, was here at Bloomberg yesterday and a really

998
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 3: interesting take on the at least the infant stages of

999
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 3: this new policy. Thanks for listening to the Balance of

1000
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 3: Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already,

1001
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 3: at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, and

1002
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 3: you can find us live every weekday from Washington, DC

1003
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 3: at noontime Eastern at bloomberg dot com,