1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: of My name is Holly Frying and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: And depending on your definition of a computer, the subject 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 1: of today's podcast could qualify as the oldest that we 6 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: know of. And this story has all the makings of 7 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: a good thriller. There's a shipwreck, there's a mysterious device 8 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: that's kind of out of place in time, and there's 9 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: actually an ongoing debate over the origin of it and 10 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,599 Speaker 1: who built it in the first place. And it's been 11 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: studied extensively, but even so it still holds this sort 12 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: of level of mystery about it. Maybe aliens is one 13 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: of those things that people like to say, yeah, but 14 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: not very many serious scholars go a long. Serious scholars 15 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: do not generally blame things on aliens. They have a 16 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: couple of theories that are, you know, hold some water. 17 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: But it's still up for debate. Right. I mostly said 18 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: maybe aliens thing because it is cool and weird enough. 19 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: It's odd. It's definitely an oddity in the context of 20 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: the time in which it was made, at least as 21 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: far as we know. So what this thing is how 22 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: this whole story really starts. It actually starts two thousand 23 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: years ago, but where modern historians picked it up was 24 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: in nineteen hundred UH and at that time a shipwreck 25 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: was discovered near the island of Antikithera by a sponge 26 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: diver and his crew. So this is like off the 27 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: coast of Greece, and the ship that they discovered had 28 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 1: been carrying an assortment of luxury goods when it sank, 29 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: so bronze and marble statues, silver coins, glass warrior jewelry, 30 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: Rhodian vases, and several other things, but all pretty much 31 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: luxury goods in with all those other treasures the divers 32 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: brought up arrested bronze mass in nineteen o two. While 33 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: studying the artifacts, archaeologists Valerios Stays identify what he thought 34 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: was a corroded gear wheel. Further examination revealed that there 35 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: were dozens of individual broken pieces in the mass and 36 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: that they were part of some sort of clockwork style mechanism. 37 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: Along with all those other pieces that were retrieved through 38 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: the years, eighty one different fragments have been identified as 39 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: part of this mystery object, and at the time of 40 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: the findings, analysis there in the early nineteen hundreds, it 41 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: was dated to approximately one fifty b C e That 42 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: date has shifted a little bit with additional analysis to 43 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: being Sometimes it's listed as closer to one hundred BC, 44 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: sometimes fifty b C e uh. And in the nineteen seventies, 45 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: famous diver and dep c explorer Jacques Cousteau found coins 46 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: at that same site that date the shipwrecked to around 47 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: eighty five b C, although it's believed that the device 48 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: probably existed for as long as two decades before the sinking, 49 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: so depending on whose analysis you look at, it somewhere 50 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: between one fifty BC and fifty b C, which is 51 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: really a pretty small time frame when you consider how 52 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,959 Speaker 1: far back we're looking. That's a pretty pinpointed, narrow range. 53 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: So for a long time no one really knew what 54 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: this was for. I mean, it was just a pile 55 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: of rusty, broken parts, some of them were rested together 56 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: many so you know, not not really easy to determine 57 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: what what it was meant to do. It's believed to 58 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: have possibly originated on the island of Rhodes, which has 59 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: a historical reputation for making automata and other mechanical artistry 60 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: as well as an advanced knowledge of astronomy. In the 61 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: context of the time ship was believed to have been traveling, 62 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: the dozens of broken elements piece together would form dozens 63 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: of dials that interlocked and moved together in a fairly 64 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: complex layered mechanism. In modern hands. The artifacts have had 65 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: an interesting history and they've continually challenged the people who 66 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: have studied them. So as early as the nineteen fifties, 67 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: researchers and enthusiasts were actually attempting to replicate the anti Caithera. Uh. 68 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: You know, they could tell that there were gears and cogs, 69 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: and they were trying to figure out what exactly it 70 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: was for. And some of them took the approach of well, 71 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: let's trying to build a replica of it, and they 72 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: will reveal what it's for. But there was always this 73 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: gap in the information of how the mechanism worked because 74 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 1: so many pieces were corroded together, uh, that there was 75 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 1: never really any big success along those lines. In ninety one, 76 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: two scientists used X rays and gamma rays to further 77 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: analyze the fused but fragmented mechanism. Their names were Doctor 78 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: to sell a Price and Doctor Kire Carlos. Their work 79 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: brought to light some of the complexity that the mechanism had. Uh. 80 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: It really shed some light onto just how many pieces 81 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: and gears that were within this lump that they had 82 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: solidified and rested into. But even so it was hard 83 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: for them to make out individual pieces with any kind 84 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: of specificity. So Dr de Solo Price developed a model 85 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: of how he believed the mechanism worked, but it couldn't 86 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: account for all the pieces because the depth of the 87 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: arrangement of gears just wasn't clear from all of their 88 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: imaging work. There was also an Australian researcher named Alan 89 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: George Bromley who took more X rays and did a 90 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: little bit more analysis, but he really felt strongly that 91 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: new approaches to imaging we're gonna need to be developed 92 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: if they were ever going to truly gain an understanding 93 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: of this mechanisms workings. At this point, a former curator 94 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: at the Science Museum in London named Michael Wright developed 95 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: a specialized linear tomography machine that he was going to 96 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: use to capture more thorough images of the antiki through 97 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: mechanisms in her workings and in linear tomography X ray 98 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: images are collected while the X ray tube actually moved 99 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 1: through a range of positions, so you end up with 100 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: a series of exposure angles and it gives you a 101 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: more comprehensive data set for analysis of an object. And 102 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: he actually kind of built this on site where the 103 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 1: Antikathro was kept, because they had the kind of custom 104 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: build it to handle this one thing. You should also 105 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: remember his name. He has a long and heavy involvement 106 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: on research with the device. Yeah, he's a very famously 107 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: connected to the antika Thro. So then there there continued 108 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: to be study throughout the late nine hundreds, and then 109 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: in two thousand and five there were a batch of 110 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: new pieces found and this sort of catalyzed a consortium 111 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: to come together to try to finally form a conclusive 112 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: analysis of this device's workings in purpose. So along with 113 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 1: Hewlett Packard and x Tech Systems, Cardiff University, the National 114 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: and Kappa Distrian University of Athens, the Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, 115 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: and the National Archaeological Museum of Athens all joined forces 116 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of this mystery that they 117 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: were like, we're never going to eat figure this out 118 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: on our own. Let's all put our our resources and 119 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: our minds together and see what the heck this thing 120 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: actually is. So in September of two thousand five, Hewlett 121 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: Packard was able to take a series of reflectance imaging 122 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: photos of the pieces of the mechanism. So this is 123 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: a process that captures repeated images of a surface under 124 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: different lighting conditions. Then that reveals details that we might 125 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: otherwise miss. The machine was custom built to do all 126 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: this imaging, and it reportedly cost about half a million 127 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: dollars to build. UH. Hewlett Packard actually still has many 128 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: of the images of the anti Cathra UH in an 129 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: interactive online gallery and it is super duper cool. So 130 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: you can actually look at how the different lighting um 131 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: affects the details that you can see, and you can 132 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: play with sliders and look at it and see like 133 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: what it would look like non corroded metallic finish. UH. 134 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: And we'll link to that in the show. Not because 135 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: it's very fun to play with, but morning you're going 136 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: down a rabbit hole, you could lose an hour or 137 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: two very easily. X Tech brought a twelve time micro 138 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: focused computerized tomographer to the party, and it was able 139 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: to complete internal composition models of the pieces in really 140 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: great detail. So in November of two thousand six, Athens 141 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: actually hosted a conference dedicated to the Antikithera entitled Decoding 142 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: the Anti Cithera Mechanism Science and Technology in Ancient Greece. 143 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: And at this conference, the detailed findings of that analytical 144 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:39,439 Speaker 1: consortium were revealed to the world, and their analysis had 145 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: identified that all of those cogs and pieces and pointers 146 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: and knobs were part of what they were calling a 147 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: fairly complex analog computer. Uh. And this was kind of 148 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: groundbreaking information because these were mechanisms that were at a 149 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: level of complexity that the historical record has no equal 150 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: to until like a thousand years later. So it was 151 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: a really extraordinarily complex mechanism, particularly in the context of 152 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: the time. It was dated too. But then comes to 153 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: the question of but what does that analog computer compute exactly? 154 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: So then we get to make a replica. Yeah. So 155 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: remember Michael right from before, he factors in really hugely 156 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: at this point. In two thousand eight, Michael Wright, who 157 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: was working in his workshop in Hammersmith, completed this major 158 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: labor of love that he had been working on for years, 159 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 1: and that is the replica of the anti cathera mechanism 160 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: and it works beautifully. It really does. Used brass rather 161 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: than bronze for most of the project. Yes, so he 162 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: had been working on this with those teams from like 163 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: the seventies on through so decades of his life that 164 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: he had kind of dedicated to this. Uh And when 165 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: you see it, it's sort of breathtaking. There is a 166 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 1: knob at the side of the mechanism, and when it's 167 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: turned by a user, it sets in motion the movement 168 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: of multiple dials on this impressive little machine, and inside 169 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: there are more than thirty gear wheels. But it's a 170 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: really fine example of an intuitive user interface because to 171 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: use it you don't see any of the complex mechanisms 172 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: on the inside. You just have to turn this knob 173 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: and seamlessly and smoothly, all of these different dials turn 174 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 1: and show you different information, just as on the original machine. 175 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: All the gears inside the replica have triangular teeth. Some 176 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: of them have as few as fifteen teeth, and others 177 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 1: have as many as two d and twenty three. Each 178 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: piece on the original artifact would have been handcut from 179 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: a sheet of bronze, so the front of the mechanism 180 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: includes pointers that feature the Greek zodiac, the location of 181 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: the moon, and the five planets that the Greeks knew about. 182 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: So that's Venus, Mercury, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, and an 183 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: Egyptian calendar. And this front dial is actually two separate dials, 184 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: one that fits within another, and the inner ring includes 185 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: the zodiac and the outer ring is a three hundred 186 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: and sixty five day calendar. And when the knob is turned, 187 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: the device predicts the motions of the heavens. So when 188 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: you select a date on the calendar by turning the knob, 189 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: the heavenly bodies on their respective pointers will rotate into 190 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 1: their expected positions in the sky for that date. Just 191 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 1: pretty awesome. I literally kind of get chills just talking 192 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: about it because it's mind blowing. It's really astounding. There's 193 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: more information even than that on the back, on two 194 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: dials that are stacked one above the other. The top 195 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: dial displays a nineteen year, two thirty five month calendar 196 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: and it marks, among other things, the scheduling of the 197 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 1: Olympic Games, which is kind of a cool little um 198 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: function for it to have, uh, And it features individual 199 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: months that are marked out along the exterior ring of 200 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 1: the dial. The bottom dial shows a salunar calendar of 201 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,199 Speaker 1: seventy six years, including a predictive model of loo ner 202 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: and solar eclipses. And what's really sort of interesting about 203 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: this little analog computer is its size. It's like the 204 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: size of a shoebox. It's really quite small. So when 205 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 1: you think about all the things it can do by 206 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: turning one single knob, That's why I said, it's kind 207 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: of a beautifully simple user interface considering that all of 208 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: those moving parts inside are predicting all of those things 209 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: at the same time. Again, mind blowing. I feel like 210 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: it's a tiny shoebox version of that massive planetarium thing. 211 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: It kind of inside like Audred's house into uh. And 212 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: that brings up the question of just who made this 213 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: amazing mechanism not Gelflings. And the short answer to the 214 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 1: question is almost that though we don't know, it could 215 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: have been Gelflings. Sure not really there, but there is 216 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: a longer answer. Yeah. The longer answer is because of 217 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: the other relics on board and the location of the 218 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: shipwreck which held the device. As we mentioned earlier on, 219 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: historians have sort of considered that it may have originated 220 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: on Rhods, and there's additional evidence to support that theory. 221 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: The famed Greek astronomer Hipparchus is believed to have worked 222 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: on the island of Rhodes from around forty b C 223 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: until his death in one BC, so for twenty years 224 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: he was there. UH and later Posidonius, who was a 225 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: philosopher and a follower of Hipparcis, actually set up an 226 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: astronomy school there at Rhodes. In the writings of Cicero, 227 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: the first century b c. Roman lawyer and console, a 228 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:40,319 Speaker 1: reference to the mechanism made by Poseidonius is made quote 229 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: which at each revolution produces the same motions of the Sun, 230 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: the Moon, and the five planets that take place in 231 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: the heavens every day and night. This has, of course 232 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: led many to believe that the device is the work 233 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: of Posidonius or another Hipparcus follower, and supporting this belief 234 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: is the fact that in uh imaging gave us clearer 235 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: views of the interior workings. The ratios of two of 236 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,679 Speaker 1: the gear wheels within the device produced a motion that 237 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: very closely mimics the way Hipparchus described the varying motion 238 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: of the Moon around the Earth, which had not happened 239 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: prior to him, I don't believe, but that's not the 240 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: only story that has um some weight behind it in 241 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: terms of potential origin. The month names inscribed on the 242 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: object were only used in certain parts of northwestern Greece 243 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: and Sicily. This calendar would have been used in the 244 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: Sicilian city of Syracuse, home to Archimedes. Since Archimedes, who 245 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: was a mathematician and astronomer, was known to have built 246 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: some astronomical models and mechanisms of his own, some historians 247 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: want to attribute the anti Catherat to him. However, because 248 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: Archimedes was killed at the Siege of Syracuse and to 249 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: twelve BC, that puts his death several decades before the 250 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: machine is believed to have been built. Some scholars still 251 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: feel that the machine can be part of a tradition 252 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: that perhaps descended from our Comedes and his work, But 253 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: the jury is still out the origin. There's no definitive 254 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: accepted origin story for it. But those are the two 255 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: pack leaders, and then of course the alien theorists, but 256 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: they don't really have any history to back that one up, 257 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: only a little. But then this all makes me ponder, 258 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: and I think many other people so where does this bizarre, 259 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: wonderful thing fit into history? And why haven't we seen 260 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: more of these kinds of computing artifacts. And there is 261 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: a woman named Joe Marchant who has written a great 262 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: deal about the the anti Catherra, and she had even 263 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: wrote a book about it called The Coding the Heavens. 264 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: But in an article that she wrote for Nature, she 265 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 1: made the following quote that I really enjoyed, and it 266 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: was more surprising to an observer from the progress obsessed 267 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: twenty one century is the apparent lack of a subsequent 268 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: tradition based on the same technology of ever better clockwork 269 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: spreading out around the world. How can the capacity to 270 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: build the machine so magnificent have passed through history with 271 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: no obvious effects? So? Yeah, was this wondrous creation just 272 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: a one off of us an especially gifted engineer he 273 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: wanted to show off some extremely amazing skills or is 274 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: it really the only surviving piece of a part of 275 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: history we've somehow not ever found other evidence of Uh 276 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: and Michael Wright, who he referenced before, that is really 277 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: quite famous for making this beautiful replica. UH gave a 278 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: quote to the BBC in two thousand six where he said, 279 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: and he said it similarly in other interviews. The designer 280 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: and maker of the device knew what they wanted to achieve, 281 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: and they did it expertly. They made no mistakes to 282 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: do this. It can't have been very far from their 283 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: everyday awkwork. And he I watched late in the game, 284 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,360 Speaker 1: after we had prepped all of our show notes another 285 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 1: interview with him, where he was saying, normally, if you 286 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: look at historical clockworks, you can almost see where the 287 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 1: plan was amended or the clockmaker kind of changed his 288 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: mind about how something was going to function. But there 289 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: are no such apparent changes in this. It really is 290 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: all put together beautifully with no It doesn't look like 291 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: there was ever any editing to the plan. So most 292 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: researchers agree with right that this couldn't have been a 293 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: one of a kind object. One explanation for why we 294 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: haven't found anything else like this piece is that it 295 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: just survived almost entirely by blind look. I mean, it 296 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: is more than two thousand years old, a long time 297 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 1: for uh, you know, for for something to survive, especially 298 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: considering that bronze and other medals at the time were 299 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: really frequently melted down to make other objects. But this 300 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: sank to the bottom of the sea and it remained 301 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: relatively intact there. For context, the Athens Museum has only 302 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: ten major bronze statues from ancient Greece, nine of which 303 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: are from shipwrecks. Yeah, bronze truly was so often in 304 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: high demand and short supply. So if it was something 305 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: that wasn't needed any longer or had fallen into disrepair, Uh, 306 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: which you know these clockworks would presumably have needed upkeep 307 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: melt it down. Yeah, makes something new. We need it 308 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: for other things that I that might be a tradition 309 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: we should revive ourselves. Uh. While examples of other mechanisms 310 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: that model the movement of heavenly bodies have been found 311 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: that are closer to the time it's believed that this existed, 312 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: none of them are anywhere near as detailed or sophisticated 313 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: as the Antikithera. It's, as I said earlier, not until 314 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 1: the fourteenth century that even comparable clockworks start to appear. 315 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: The three largest fragments of this mechanism are on display 316 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: at the National Archiligical Museum in Athens, Greece, and the 317 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: smaller pieces of it are in storage at the museum 318 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: study of the anti Citha continues. I don't think anybody 319 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: believes the book is closed on this one. Uh. There 320 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: are still conferences and symposia that are held to discuss 321 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: its place in history and its origin. And the last 322 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: one was quite recent. It was June of so just 323 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, really, uh. And it was a 324 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: workshop to bring the other classicists, astronomers, archaeologists, mathematicians and 325 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: historians and they all had the goal of discussing science 326 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: and innovation and antiquity around the theme of the antikithera mechanism. 327 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: So I'm hoping we get lots of interesting papers to 328 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: come out of that group, think uh. And there's also 329 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: continuing analysis of the inscriptions on the mechanism in case 330 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: there are any new revelations that people haven't necessarily identified yet. 331 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: And then in another fully functional replica was built, this 332 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: time out of lego. Naturally, it looks quite a bit different. Yeah, 333 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: it's not a true replica, right, but the function of 334 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: each dial is faithfully duplicated using a Lego. And there's 335 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: even a neat video that explains how the mathematics of 336 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: the gears work, how they combine to perform the same 337 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: functions as the brond artifact does, and we will link 338 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: to that in our show notes too. Yeah, it's a 339 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: it's one of those things that I really it really 340 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: is breathtaking. There in several of the links that will 341 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: appear in our show notes. There is a video that 342 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: was done by I believe, the New Scientists, and it's 343 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: Michael right kind of giving a demonstration of it and 344 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: turning the crank and you can see all the wheels 345 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: move and how beautifully it's smooth as silk. I mean, 346 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: there's no awkward chunking along. It's really really it seems 347 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 1: almost magical, which considering how many things that are just 348 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: much simpler you have to fiddle with, it's pretty amazing. Yeah, 349 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: it's it's really beautiful, like the key to my front 350 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: door to be jostled to work and exactly, and this 351 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: is a very complex machine, much more difficult than the 352 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: key to my front door, built entirely replicating the specs 353 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: of this two thousand year old object, and it works 354 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: perfectly and beautifully and is so smooth. It's really quite 355 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: a sound name. The Anti Kids are A. Yeah, I 356 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: have like romantic attachment to it because it's so amazing 357 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 1: I think that's valid. It's and I think I'm not 358 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: the only one. There are lots of people. Anytime you 359 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 1: see interviews with people that study it, they sort of 360 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 1: have that like giddy slash wistful combination where they're just 361 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: they're still blown away by it, even if they've been 362 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: working with it and the data sets for decades. It's 363 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: really quite cool. So that's the anti kids through a mechanism. 364 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,640 Speaker 1: Do you also have some listener mail? I do. Indeed, 365 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: this mail is from our listener charity, and it made 366 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: me smile so much that I knew I had to 367 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: read it at some point. And she says, uh, Hi, 368 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: Tracey and Holly, I'm a huge stuff you missed in 369 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: history class fan. I've been listening since almost the beginning, 370 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: and I can't tell you how much times the podcast 371 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: has saved my tale on history tests all throughout high 372 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: school and some in college. I just thought you should 373 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: know that I just finished listening to the Nicola Tesla 374 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: episodes and I thought it was so fascinating that podcast 375 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 1: actually helped me understand an entire episode of Bob's Burgers 376 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: on Fox. The entire episode is centered around the electrocution 377 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: of Topsy the elephant that Edison used as an example 378 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: to show that a C current was better than Tesla's 379 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: DC current. I thought y'all should know that your podcasts 380 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 1: are always full of helpful information for understanding our world today, 381 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: whether it be science or pop culture. I love Bob's Burgers. 382 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite shows on TV, and that 383 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: episode had me laughing so hard. There's a whole beautiful 384 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: musical number song between the elephant and edis called Electric Love, 385 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: and if you, um, if you haven't watched it, I 386 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: hope you give it a watch because it's really entertaining. 387 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: Uh And it's on Netflix, so yeah, you can check 388 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 1: it out well. And we we get a pretty frequent 389 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: number of email, some tweets and things from people who say, 390 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 1: I watched this movie or I read this book or whatever, 391 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: and I understood it thanks to your podcast, and that 392 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: makes me very happy. Yes. Yeah. The premise of that 393 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 1: particular episode is there is a substitute teacher who really 394 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: is a big Edison fan and one of the kids 395 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: of the main family on the show, Bob Belcher and 396 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,199 Speaker 1: his wife Linda uh wants to take him down, and 397 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: so she wants to show how horrible some of the 398 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 1: behavior was, and at the same time, there's also this 399 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 1: romanticizing of the relationship between Edison and this elephant. It's 400 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: so funny. It's just like Tesla and Edison slash fiction. No, okay, 401 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: here's what I'm saying. Mega Molalley and Kevin Klein sing 402 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: the song. So that's really all you need to know. 403 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 1: I mean, if that doesn't sell you the ticket, I 404 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: don't know what does. Uh. If you would like to 405 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: write to us, you can do so at History Podcast 406 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,239 Speaker 1: at Discovery dot com. You can also connect to us 407 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: on Twitter at missed in History, on Facebook dot com, 408 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 1: slash history class stuff on tumbler at missed in history 409 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 1: dot tumbler dot com, and you can also find us 410 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: on Pinterest. UH. If you would like to learn a 411 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 1: little bit more about topics related to today's show subject, 412 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: you can go to our website and do a search 413 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: for ancient technology and you'll get a few different articles, 414 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: including how did ancient civilizations use sundials to tell time? 415 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: And another really fun one called ten Amazing Egyptian Inventions. 416 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: There's lots of cool stuff going on way before people 417 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: often credit it as existing. Yeah, everyone who lived for 418 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: us what they it was not. They were solving problems 419 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: and thinking of things too yet. Uh so you should 420 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,479 Speaker 1: absolutely go check those out and study up on anything 421 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: you'd like to at our website, which is how Stuff 422 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: Works dot com for more on this and thousands of 423 00:24:52,600 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: other topics. Is it House to have works dot com 424 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 1: m Netflix streams TV shows and movies directly to your home, 425 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: saving you time, money, and hassle. As a Netflix member, 426 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 1: you can instantly watch TV episodes and movies streaming directly 427 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: to your PC, Mac, or right to your TV with 428 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: your Xbox three, sixty P S three or Nintendo we console, 429 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: plus Apple devices, Kindle and Nook. 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