Speaker 1: Hello everybody. Welcome into the Fantasy Pros Football Podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Ryan Warmley, joined today by Derek Brown and Pat fitz
Speaker 1: Morris Fellas. We are talking fantasy takeaways for the NFC North.
Speaker 1: We have been running through all of the divisions. Hopefully
Speaker 1: everybody has been enjoying the series or we'll enjoy the
Speaker 1: episodes to come. Not sure what order they're getting released.
Speaker 1: Today we were talking about the NFC North though, and
Speaker 1: it was the best division in football, one of the
Speaker 1: best divisions I can ever recall. Watching particularly the top
Speaker 1: three teams was remarkable how good they were and what
Speaker 1: their records were against non NFC North opponents. So this
Speaker 1: will be a really fun episode to talk some takeaways
Speaker 1: about Deebro. We're gonna start with you. You are have
Speaker 1: the takeaway for the Detroit Lions, who are the one
Speaker 1: seed in the NFC. They went fifteen into this season.
Speaker 2: This all comes down to we bought high on Sam
Speaker 2: Laporta in twenty twenty four, and on twenty twenty five
Speaker 2: we get to buy low. He's going to drop in
Speaker 2: the ranks. Some people are gonna have we're after in
Speaker 2: the second or the third round.
Speaker 1: I'm not doing it again.
Speaker 2: Because we know that that's how fantasy gms work. Get
Speaker 2: burned once and never go back to the well. But
Speaker 2: I'm telling people that need to go back to the
Speaker 2: well because I think this was a confluence of a
Speaker 2: lot of different things for Sam Laporta.
Speaker 1: One.
Speaker 2: I don't think he was fully healthy to start the year.
Speaker 2: Like we're talking about a player that it wasn't until
Speaker 2: week seven that we saw Sam Laporta play at least
Speaker 2: ninety percent of the snaps in the Detroit Lions offense
Speaker 2: and all the other metrics are fantastic for Sam Laporta.
Speaker 2: The emergence of Jamison Williams also stunted his early season stuff.
Speaker 2: But if you look at weeks thirteen through eighteen, we
Speaker 2: got pretty much the Sam Laporta we thought we were
Speaker 2: gonna get. He was tight in five and fantasy points
Speaker 2: per game, fifteen fantasy points per game, which if you
Speaker 2: look over the entire season, if he would have done
Speaker 2: that from the outset guys, he would have been within
Speaker 2: shouting distance like we talked about in other episodes, of
Speaker 2: being the tight end one overall and paying off on
Speaker 2: that draft price. So after the down all in for
Speaker 2: Sammy ballgame for twenty twenty five, Baby, enjoy the discount.
Speaker 1: We de bro fitz and I just talking on the
Speaker 1: Dynasty Show. We were talking about Sam Laportas. Somebody asked
Speaker 1: us about trading him for the one oh nine in
Speaker 1: a super flex rekey draft, and the Dynasty trade value
Speaker 1: chart has his relatively close. There are some other stuff
Speaker 1: going on in the trade that we don't need to
Speaker 1: get into the specifics, but that was kind of the
Speaker 1: main crux of it. I felt like I did not
Speaker 1: want to do that. Fitzad is a little more even
Speaker 1: what do you think about that trade.
Speaker 2: I'm not doing it because I think Laporta's value is
Speaker 2: higher than that, because at worst he's what Dynasty tight
Speaker 2: end three. I mean, he's in the conversation for tight
Speaker 2: end one. Overall, Still, I think within with brock Bauers
Speaker 2: and trade McBride, but I don't. I wouldn't push back
Speaker 2: on it too hard, although I would want more than that,
Speaker 2: Like if you could give me the one o nine
Speaker 2: and like a second, maybe would do it. But it's
Speaker 2: also comes down to the fact in Dynasty Titans, they're
Speaker 2: much more valuable on your team than a lot of
Speaker 2: instances than you ever get back in trades.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he I think, like I said, there were
Speaker 1: other pieces involved in that. You know, it's a tier
Speaker 1: of three at the top, and I do think he
Speaker 1: is clearly the third in that tier. So maybe you
Speaker 1: could argue it's a tier of two at the top
Speaker 1: and then kind of him on his own a tier
Speaker 1: of one behind McBride and Bowers, But I do think
Speaker 1: he's very clearly in the top three fits. How do
Speaker 1: you look at Sam Laporta for twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: Five tier of one behind Bowers and McBride, likely fourth
Speaker 3: round pick. I think we're gonna see one tight end
Speaker 3: go maybe in each of the first four rounds of
Speaker 3: the draft. Bowers I think is worthy of a late first,
Speaker 3: McBride a second, Kittle, a third, Laporta in the fourth.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I agree with Debro like we saw more
Speaker 3: of the old Sam Laporta late in the year. I
Speaker 3: think another fact for the slow start was that the
Speaker 3: Lions were completely demolishing people early in the season and
Speaker 3: just like running the ball down people's throats and like
Speaker 3: barely bothering a pat. There were some games where like
Speaker 3: Jared Goff had seventeen or eighteen pass attempts, so that
Speaker 3: played into it also, But yeah, I mean, like the
Speaker 3: Jamison Williams thing is maybe a problem that's not going
Speaker 3: away for Laporta. So I like him, I just don't
Speaker 3: think he has the ceiling that Bowers and McBride do.
Speaker 1: De youver. The other thing I wanted to ask you
Speaker 1: about the Lions, and I talked a little bit about
Speaker 1: about this with Fits, is if Ben Johnson leaves for
Speaker 1: a head coaching job, which obviously for the thirst straight
Speaker 1: year he's going to be really highly sought after, there's
Speaker 1: a very likely chance I think that this offense is
Speaker 1: not as at least well called next year and well designed.
Speaker 1: Like Ben Johnson is considered arguably the best offensive coordinator
Speaker 1: in football, I think many would say he is the
Speaker 1: best offensive coordinator in football, at least some of the
Speaker 1: guys who aren't head coaches right now. So if they're
Speaker 1: taking a step back in that regard, it's not easy
Speaker 1: to just immediately get the next very obvious guy. We've
Speaker 1: seen Jared Goff struggle in some previous offenses before when
Speaker 1: he didn't have this amazing setup around him. Is there
Speaker 1: any concern for you going in next year if we
Speaker 1: assume that Ben Johnson is not there anymore that that
Speaker 1: will negatively impact Laporta and really the offense as a whole.
Speaker 2: I think it could hurt them as far as are
Speaker 2: they a top three offense, But I don't see them
Speaker 2: falling outside of the top five in the sense of
Speaker 2: let's just assume you don't get Ben Ben Johnson doesn't say,
Speaker 2: but you don't get a massive, massive falloff, like you
Speaker 2: could still get an offensive coordinator, because the infrastructure of
Speaker 2: this offense, it's not like there are other moving pieces
Speaker 2: and we're so worried about this entire thing falling apart.
Speaker 2: Like the offensive line is still going to be a lead.
Speaker 2: You still have two of the best running backs in
Speaker 2: the NFL. All of that structure and that floor that
Speaker 2: you built, that basement, that foundation of this team is
Speaker 2: all still firmly in place. This is basically just don't
Speaker 2: screw up the offensive coordinator higher and you probably still
Speaker 2: have a top five offense in the NFL. So maybe
Speaker 2: it hurts some in the sense of, Okay, Laporta top two,
Speaker 2: top three, now we're bumping into top five tight end
Speaker 2: and splitting hairs in some of the positions like that.
Speaker 2: But am I worried, not a ton because I also
Speaker 2: know that Dan Campbell's involved in those offensive meetings and stuff,
Speaker 2: so it's not like they're going from.
Speaker 1: Issues with that.
Speaker 2: On the other side of this, too, is if they
Speaker 2: lose Aaron Glenn, what if the defense takes a step
Speaker 2: back and the offense is pushed even more next year?
Speaker 2: We could play that card too.
Speaker 1: I also I have a lot of trust in Dan
Speaker 1: Campbell to make a good higher He seems like a
Speaker 1: somebody who will do a very good job of kind
Speaker 1: of vetting his available options and be He's the type
Speaker 1: of coach that I think quality offensive coordinator candidates will
Speaker 1: want to come coach under.
Speaker 2: So in his background too, he's not a defensive guy
Speaker 2: like he played tight end. He was an offensive guy.
Speaker 2: So it's not like we're even talking about like a
Speaker 2: CEO or defensive minded head coach. I think people it
Speaker 2: gets lost in the sauce that Dan Campbell also is
Speaker 2: more of the offensive mind guy too.
Speaker 1: I think he's a CEO type now if you had
Speaker 1: to put him in a bucket that but in the background, yes,
Speaker 1: is like like what he is not just that he
Speaker 1: is also contributing to offense and stuff like that Minnesota
Speaker 1: Vikings fourteen and three, they are the five seed. Obviously,
Speaker 1: winning fourteen games is typically enough to win the division,
Speaker 1: not this year for the NFC North. If it's what's
Speaker 1: your takeaway for the Vikings.
Speaker 3: That fading Minnesota pass catchers because of Sam Darnold was
Speaker 3: a mistake in twenty twenty four, and I think fading
Speaker 3: Minnesota pass catchers because of JJ McCarthy in twenty twenty
Speaker 3: five will also be a mistake. So justin Jefferson fell
Speaker 3: into like the of the first round, sometimes even the
Speaker 3: late part of the first round this year in fantasy
Speaker 3: drafts because people were nervous about Sam Donald and him
Speaker 3: possibly undermining Jefferson's heroics. Like there were some drafts where
Speaker 3: Jefferson fell to one to ten and was going behind well,
Speaker 3: he was consistently going behind Amen Ross, Saint Brown and
Speaker 3: drafts that I was in, But I saw drafts where
Speaker 3: he was going behind AJ Brown and Garrett Wilson too,
Speaker 3: which I thought was kind of crazy. I wound up
Speaker 3: because of that getting Jefferson in a lot of spots
Speaker 3: where I was like sitting at one O eight, and
Speaker 3: I was obviously delighted with how things turned out. Fifteen
Speaker 3: hundred yards, one hundred and three catches, ten touchdowns. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean we are gearing up for a repeat of
Speaker 3: the same phenomenon, because I do think the Vikings are
Speaker 3: going to let Sam Donald walk and make a go
Speaker 3: of it with their cheap first round pick quarterback. And look,
Speaker 3: I'm not as completely sold on JJ McCarthy as debro is,
Speaker 3: but he is good enough to make Justin Jefferson go.
Speaker 3: I mean, heck, I am good enough to make jeff
Speaker 3: Justin Jefferson go, and I'm not how far I could
Speaker 3: throw away football out of my backyard. So like, do
Speaker 3: not fade these pass catchers. Don't fade Jordan Addison or TJ.
Speaker 3: Hockinson either. Because of the quarterbacks.
Speaker 2: It's a year not getting yourself enough credit. I've seen
Speaker 2: the hoes you've got, I've seen you check a football. Okay,
Speaker 2: just to say it.
Speaker 1: I think that it's very easy to make the case
Speaker 1: for not fading Justin Jefferson. Obviously, I think it's easy
Speaker 1: to make the case for not fading TJ. Hockinson. I
Speaker 1: think Addison is the one that you people will make
Speaker 1: the case to fade. You know, it's not often you
Speaker 1: see a rookie quarterback, which McCarthy essentially will be next year.
Speaker 1: It's not often you see a rookie quarterback support multiple
Speaker 1: viable pass catches, let alone three. If we're looping in
Speaker 1: Hockinson there too. I really like Addison the player, and
Speaker 1: I like him as a number two. I think it's
Speaker 1: toots him really well to be a high level two
Speaker 1: rather than a low level one in an offense. He's
Speaker 1: the one that I think I'm anticipating people making the
Speaker 1: case to fade. What do you think, Debro Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean I faded him coming into this season, and
Speaker 2: Jordan Addison just just shoved in my face, man, And
Speaker 2: I mean kudos to him. We've seen him grow as
Speaker 2: a route runner, as a target earner at you know,
Speaker 2: not only that, but the strength of the catch point.
Speaker 2: Like Addison has taken a big step forward this year.
Speaker 2: And I'll tip my cap to him, man, and to
Speaker 2: all the parts that fits laid out. I mean I
Speaker 2: was telling people not in draft season, don't fade justin Jefferson,
Speaker 2: because I'm not that worried about it. And this all
Speaker 2: comes back to, like, look, regardless of whatever people's thoughts
Speaker 2: are about JJ McCarthy as a prospect, whether you didn't
Speaker 2: like him, you were big on him, you were high
Speaker 2: on him, you loved him. This all comes back to
Speaker 2: Kevin O'Connell and do we really think, like, how many
Speaker 2: iterations of this offense have we seen still go?
Speaker 1: Like? You?
Speaker 2: We have Josh Dobbs, We saw what that looked like,
Speaker 2: pass Catcher's al still flourished. We saw with Nick Mullens, Okay,
Speaker 2: he's thrown for three hundred yards on a weekly basis.
Speaker 2: Now we've seen it with Sam Darnald. Why the heck
Speaker 2: don't people have like belief and give KOC credit? And
Speaker 2: even if you don't like JJ unless you think he
Speaker 2: is just walking into the NFL and he's worse than
Speaker 2: Nick Mullens, he's worse than Josh Dobbs, He's way, way,
Speaker 2: way worse than Sam Darnald.
Speaker 1: He's not.
Speaker 2: Then why do we not also have faith in this offense,
Speaker 2: this head coach, this offensive system to support the quarterback
Speaker 2: they felt good enough to take in the first round
Speaker 2: in the NFL draft.
Speaker 1: NFL Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3: Sorry, I was just going to say thank you for
Speaker 3: mentioning O'Connell because I totally forgot to mention him. But
Speaker 3: like that's one of the big reasons. I mean, the
Speaker 3: infrastructure is so good. Not to mention, like, you know,
Speaker 3: really well, the tackles are great. They could maybe use
Speaker 3: some work on the end of the offensive line, but like,
Speaker 3: it's just a really good system for a young quarterback
Speaker 3: to enter and be able to thrive.
Speaker 1: Right where are you gonna have Addison ranked fits.
Speaker 3: Probably in the twenties somewhere. I mean, I do think
Speaker 3: he is really good and could be a star elsewhere. Like,
Speaker 3: I think he's that good. But yeah, obviously you have
Speaker 3: to dock him a little bit for having to share
Speaker 3: balls with Justin Jefferson.
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Speaker 1: Fits. Let's go to your Green Bay Packers eleven and
Speaker 1: six this season.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just talked up the Minnesota Vikings and now
Speaker 3: I'm gonna talk down about the Green Bay Packers. Twenty
Speaker 3: twenty five is off to a pretty weird start so far. Yeah,
Speaker 3: the Packers have gone from seemingly flush at wide receiver
Speaker 3: to desperately needing help at that position. I thought the
Speaker 3: Packers were stacked with good young wide receiver talent coming
Speaker 3: into the season. Jade Reid looked like a star in
Speaker 3: the making. Christian Watson had diagnosed the root of his
Speaker 3: hamstring issues and seemed ready to live up to his
Speaker 3: immense potential. Romeo Dobbs had proven to be a solid contributor.
Speaker 3: Packers head coach Matt Lafleur was talking up Dontavian Wis,
Speaker 3: even comparing him to DeVante Adams. Well, Reid stopped producing
Speaker 3: midway through the season. I have no idea what his
Speaker 3: future is going to look like. Watson towards a cl
Speaker 3: and it's now starting to look like he might be
Speaker 3: another another Denario Alexander Worm. Do you remember him? That
Speaker 3: might be uh, I remember? That might be too dated
Speaker 3: for you. He was this big playmaking receiver out of
Speaker 3: Missouri whose career was cut short by injuries. But big playmaker,
Speaker 3: but yeah, just kept getting one big injury act. We
Speaker 3: Will Fluller is the contemporary com for that. You you might,
Speaker 3: you might, you might know that name Worm.
Speaker 1: I was playing fantasy football when Danario Alexander was. I
Speaker 1: wasn't doing this professionally. I was playing. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't have a reck. I was in college when he was.
Speaker 1: Actually I was in high school when he came into
Speaker 1: the NFL, So this a while ago. Yeah, that was.
Speaker 3: That was just sort of the comp that came to
Speaker 3: mind for me. Since Danario Alexander was six five and
Speaker 3: Watson is a big Rangie Fellow too, but obviously his
Speaker 3: NFL future is in serious doubt now. Unfortunately, Dantavian Wick's
Speaker 3: pretty good at getting open, not so good at making
Speaker 3: contested catches or sometimes easy catches.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean DeVante Adams also had that problem in his
Speaker 3: first couple of years in the league and things worked
Speaker 3: out well for him. But we'll see on Wis like,
Speaker 3: I think he's more of a number three or number
Speaker 3: four than a starter right now. And Romeo Dubbs just
Speaker 3: like a complimentary receiver, not a guy you want as
Speaker 3: your one or maybe even as your number two. Suddenly
Speaker 3: the Packers have gone from being loaded at wide receiver
Speaker 3: to being pretty needy, and I mean like they have
Speaker 3: other needs to cornerback. Maybe they could use another edge rusher,
Speaker 3: but they're gonna have to draft at least one wide
Speaker 3: receiver I think this.
Speaker 1: Year, Debra, how do you evaluate this receiving core for
Speaker 1: Green Bay, especially when it comes to fantasy.
Speaker 2: Oh Man, the Watson news really hurts looking at the
Speaker 2: rest of this wide receiver room. I think it comes
Speaker 2: down to, and we've seen this in previous iteration, like
Speaker 2: previous weeks, where I forget, who are they playing the
Speaker 2: last It was the Minnesota Vikings. It was the Vikings
Speaker 2: and Brian Flores dialed of their man coverage rate and
Speaker 2: you saw all their guys struggle and they didn't have
Speaker 2: Watson to beat man and have an answer for that.
Speaker 2: So I think looking at all the different skills sets
Speaker 2: of these wide receivers, you're not only building a basketball
Speaker 2: team and you're trying to get a compliment of different
Speaker 2: skill sets, but you also need you need a dude
Speaker 2: like you need a guy that like, well, okay when
Speaker 2: it gets tough, and I need somebody to go be
Speaker 2: the alpha and do alpha type things. The Committee's all
Speaker 2: great and stuff, until the committee ain't working or you
Speaker 2: have certain weaker links in the armor. When it comes
Speaker 2: down to it, you need a guy when when the
Speaker 2: chips are down, we could feed him targets and we
Speaker 2: can get production, and we know that that production is
Speaker 2: going to be there. Green Bay needs an alpha Debro.
Speaker 1: Let's stick with you for the takeaway for the Bears,
Speaker 1: who went five to twelve in Caleb Williams rookie season.
Speaker 2: I talked about it all draft season, and it was
Speaker 2: right fading Deandres Swift in twenty twenty four was the
Speaker 2: right call if you look at his entire body of
Speaker 2: work the first few weeks of the season, specifically that
Speaker 2: stretch between weeks five through eight, when he was RB two,
Speaker 2: RB six, RB eleven and fantasy scoring on those weekly basis,
Speaker 2: that's really carrying a ton of water and propping him
Speaker 2: up to where he was RB twenty one and fantasy
Speaker 2: points per game overall.
Speaker 1: But if you look at.
Speaker 2: When you needed DeAndre Swift the most, he fell on
Speaker 2: his face weeks eleven through seventeen, RB thirty three and
Speaker 2: fantasy points per game, he was RB twenty eight as
Speaker 2: far as his weekly rate of finishing as an RB
Speaker 2: two or better. So Swift is a player that look,
Speaker 2: I think people still have clung to previous Detroit Lions
Speaker 2: hype and hope and whether it's he hasn't been able
Speaker 2: to stay healthy at certain points. Now we finally get
Speaker 2: the health and the effectiveness is just nih. So fading
Speaker 2: Swift was the right call last year or in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four, it's gonna be the right call again in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: Fits where did you have Swift in their rankings for
Speaker 1: this last season?
Speaker 3: I was below consensus. I was not too high on him,
Speaker 3: and just generally, like I don't want to be above
Speaker 3: consensus on DeAndre Swift, but like his value was such
Speaker 3: a moving target because remember how he just faced Planet
Speaker 3: out of the gates. The Bears offensive line was really struggling,
Speaker 3: then he got hot and you know, was tearing it
Speaker 3: up for a few weeks and then over the back
Speaker 3: half of the regular season. I feel like that was
Speaker 3: sort of the true DeAndre Swift value if he's going
Speaker 3: to be in a featured role, like he's not really
Speaker 3: a guy you want as your feature back. But in
Speaker 3: his defense, I will say that a lot of this
Speaker 3: was sort of largely the product of his environments. Bears
Speaker 3: offensive line not great and just not an offense that
Speaker 3: was sustaining a lot of drives, which kind of short
Speaker 3: circuited Swift, and that you know, he got probably fewer
Speaker 3: touches than he might have in a better performing offense.
Speaker 3: So I think I don't think he was terrible, and
Speaker 3: I don't think he's anyone's you know, featured back of
Speaker 3: the future. I just think he's going to be at
Speaker 3: this point in his career, he is probably best served
Speaker 3: as someone's full time third down back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed.
Speaker 1: Where do you anticipate him being in ECR for twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five.
Speaker 3: Oh Man, probably in the late twenties, high end RB three,
Speaker 3: mid range RB three, something like that.
Speaker 1: I think I'm probably going to be out at that price.
Speaker 1: I would. Yeah, aspect I had.
Speaker 2: Him as an RB three last year, I think he'll
Speaker 2: probably be ranked anywhere from low end RB two to
Speaker 2: high end RB three and all just happily avoid him
Speaker 2: like I did last year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I'm I'm feeling the same r. We'll
Speaker 1: wrap up the NFC North there. Thanks everybody for tuning
Speaker 1: in to be sure to check out all of our
Speaker 1: other divisional takeaways with myself, Debro and Fits. Thanks, thanks
Speaker 1: for watching, and we'll see again next time. Thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to the Fantasy Pros Fantasy Football podcast. If you
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