1 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: From a cocoa punch and iHeartRadio. This is the turning. 2 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: I'm Erica Lance. Today we have a bonus episode. Maybe 3 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: you remember Sister Kathleen Hughes. She was the former MC 4 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 1: sister who became a consecrated virgin after she left, and 5 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: I wanted to learn more about that. If your ears 6 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: also perked up when you first heard that Sister Kathleen 7 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: was a consecrated virgin, then this is an episode for you. 8 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 2: We are called to live a simple life. We don't marry, 9 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 2: we're chased. We don't, you know, have intimate relations with 10 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 2: a man. I'm sorry for sounding like a victorian there. 11 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: This is Jenna Cooper and she knows a lot about 12 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: consecrated virgins because she is one. Jenna is thirty six 13 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: years old and lives in Minnesota. 14 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 2: I explain it to people in a practical kind of way, 15 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 2: as all the love I would have given to a 16 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 2: I say, a mortal husband. That's the only way I 17 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 2: can really describe it. All the love I would have 18 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 2: given to a mortal spouse and natural children. I offer 19 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 2: that to Jesus and to his children, which is really 20 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 2: everyone in the church are all humanity. 21 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: So this episode of the turning is a little different 22 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: than most. I'm just going to have a conversation with 23 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: one person, Jenna Cooper, to hear about her experience is 24 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: a consecrated virgin, what it is and what it means 25 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: to her personally. Jenna became a consecrated virgin thirteen years ago. 26 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: She's a canon lawyer in Wenona, Minnesota. She also writes 27 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: a bloog called Sponser Christi where she talks about her 28 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: life as a consecrated virgin. So, Jenna, could you just explain, 29 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: first of all, what is consecrated virginity. 30 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: So there are kinds of vocations in the church. We 31 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: call them consecrated life collectively, and that's in the same 32 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 2: category as like nuns and sisters. The spirituality of being 33 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 2: a it's created virgin. It's all centered around being a 34 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 2: bride of Christ and that sometimes people say that sounds 35 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 2: antiquated or it might sound a little weird, but it 36 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 2: actually there's a lot of very profound theology, and it's 37 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 2: being available for others but being available to the Lord 38 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: in a more, much more radical way. And it is 39 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 2: hard to explain, but that spousal to mention it is 40 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 2: really real. I mean you really do open your heart 41 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 2: to the Lord, and he he makes himself present to you. 42 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: So you know, again it's not like, Okay, well, Jesus 43 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 2: is my husband and I'm washing his socks like I 44 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: would for a normal husband. But you know, there really 45 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 2: is a presence there and a sense you know that 46 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 2: you are walking through life with another person now consecrated. 47 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: Virginity actually existed in the early Church. So what was 48 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 1: it like back then or what was the role back then? 49 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 2: So their main role seems to have been prayer, and 50 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 2: we talk today about prayer and witness, and it seems 51 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 2: like they would have had a very similar role that way, 52 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 2: so you know that witness also it extended beyond just 53 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 2: the household of the family of the church too. You know, 54 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 2: there is some evidence they would have done active works 55 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 2: of charity, like taking care of the sick and the poor. 56 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,839 Speaker 2: So they probably would have had a role very very 57 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 2: similar to nuns and sisters today. 58 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: Do you feel connected to some of these women, you know, 59 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: from early early Christianity. It's crazy to me to think 60 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: about this ancient tradition that is continuing today. 61 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 2: Actually I really do, and that's part of what made 62 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: me follow this path. Instead of becoming a sister is 63 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 2: I remember when I was younger, I used to love 64 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: reading stories of the saints, and the ones who really 65 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 2: spoke to me the most were these early virgin martyr 66 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 2: saints like Saint Agnes or Saint Lucy. But I really 67 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: admired their courage and just through singleness of purpose, and 68 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 2: those were the women who were most in firing to me. 69 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 2: And when you join a religious community, like if you've 70 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: become an honor a sister, you know, part of joining 71 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 2: a community is you're following the footsteps of a founder 72 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 2: or a foundress, and a lot of times that's a saint. 73 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 2: And I remember, you know, thinking like, okay, Saint Francis 74 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 2: is great, wonderful saint. I don't really see myself as 75 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 2: a Francis scan Saint Dominic's great wonderful saint. Just really 76 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 2: don't see myself as a daughter of Saint Dominic. And 77 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 2: this was actually when I first started thinking about my vocation, 78 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 2: when I was a teenager, and this was before I 79 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 2: knew that being a consecrated virgin was still a thing. 80 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 2: But I remember thinking like, wow, you know those early 81 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 2: virgin martyr saints, those are the ones I really feel 82 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 2: like I want as my sisters, but it's too bad 83 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 2: you can't do that anymore. So that connection to the 84 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 2: early Church is very important to me in my own 85 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 2: life and spirituality. 86 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: Jenna says, consecrated virginity started to become less popular in 87 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: the Middle Ages. Women who wanted to dedicate their lives 88 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: to God started entering monasteries, and being a single woman 89 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: not living in a cloistered convent became less common. Some 90 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: religious communities continued to consecrate virgins so that ritual was preserved, 91 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: but it wasn't until the late twentieth century that the 92 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: vocation really had a resurgence. Today there are an estimated 93 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,679 Speaker 1: five thousand consecrated virgins. This boom came after an update 94 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 1: to Canon Law Canon six zh four. It officially included 95 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: consecrated virginity in the same category of religious life as 96 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: religious sisters and nuns, but there are some distinct differences. 97 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: For one, consecrated virgins aren't in an order or community 98 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: based around a founder. They're associated with the diocese, which 99 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: is basically a religious district. And although Jenna says she's 100 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: called to live a simple life, she doesn't take the 101 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: same vows of poverty and obedience that nuns and religious 102 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: sisters do. 103 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 2: So for religious they don't own anything personally, I can 104 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 2: own my own property, you know, their way of living 105 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 2: out obedience is different, and it's different for every community, 106 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 2: but it's much more an emphasis on oh, you see 107 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 2: the will of God and the superior as will for 108 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 2: you and whereas you know, for us it's a little 109 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 2: more open ended. So that's one difference as well. 110 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: What was your path to choosing this vocation? 111 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 2: So for me, I well, I knew, well, I grew 112 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 2: up in a Catholic family, and you know, we went 113 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 2: to Mass every Sunday. We weren't unusually devout, but I 114 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: always really loved God and really loved prayer. Even when 115 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 2: I was very very young. I remember I used to 116 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 2: draw like pictures of angels and I put them in 117 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 2: the collection basket at church because I thought that went 118 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 2: straight to God and I thought he'd liked my tries. 119 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:45,239 Speaker 2: So I was really very pious as a very little girl. 120 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 2: And when I was twelve, I just started having experiences 121 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: in prayer where I really felt like the Lord was 122 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 2: asking me to, you know, to give him more, or 123 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 2: be closer to him, or give my life to him 124 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 2: in a more radical way. 125 00:06:58,640 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: Wow, that's really young. 126 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, young vocations actually aren't that uncommon. 127 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 2: But you know, and when you're twelve, that's you know, 128 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 2: you're starting to get older. You're seeing the world in 129 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 2: a different way. There's a lot of you know, identity 130 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 2: developmental things that are happening. Even even at that age, 131 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 2: though I really did see myself relating to God in 132 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 2: very spouseal terms. That's obviously deepened as I've gotten older, 133 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 2: and it's you know, I live this out in much 134 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 2: more more sure way than I did when I was twelve. 135 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 2: But I really did feel a call to that, and 136 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 2: I was in sixth grade. And when you're in sixth grade, 137 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 2: you're not going to do anything about that kind of call. 138 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: So did you tell anyone? 139 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 2: Well, I think I well, at that point, I assumed, oh, 140 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 2: this means I'm called to be a nun, and that's 141 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 2: what I knew was out there. And I think I 142 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 2: told my parents, and they are good Catholics, so they'd 143 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 2: probably be a little embarrassed about this, but they I 144 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 2: don't think they were thrilled with that idea. But you know, 145 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 2: I was twelve, so I think they might have assumed, Okay, 146 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 2: well she might grow out of it. And then I 147 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 2: was Catholic school till I was in eighth grade. And 148 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 2: then I went to a public high school. And you know, 149 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 2: obviously nobody's going to talk to you about being in 150 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 2: a public high school. So this is really just this 151 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: deeply personal thing for you know. I did try telling 152 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 2: people about it, but nobody's really going to engage a 153 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 2: teenager seriously about that kind of thing. So it was 154 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 2: really just between me and the Lord for yeah, all 155 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 2: my teen years. Then when I was eighteen, I went 156 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 2: to college. And most dioceses have like a vocation office 157 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 2: or a priest you can call and get put in 158 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 2: touch with different communities. So as soon as I got 159 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 2: to college, I did that, and I got put in 160 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 2: touch with a few different groups of sisters, and I 161 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,719 Speaker 2: went to visit what you do when you're thinking you 162 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: might have this kind of call. And though I remember 163 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 2: feeling like it was a very weird cross between dating 164 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 2: and looking at colleges. 165 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: To go do oh my gosh, interesting, Yeah, you would 166 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: go and stay overnight at these different convents. 167 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 2: Oh, sometimes sometimes they have like little retreats, you know, 168 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 2: for like a weekend for women who are discerning. Sometimes 169 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 2: you just call and visit and go for lunch or 170 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 2: pray with the sisters. So I did, you know a 171 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 2: few different things like that, and some communities, you know, 172 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 2: were really great, and some, you know, maybe I didn't 173 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 2: feel as interested in right away in what way I 174 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 2: was with these sisters, and it just kind of this 175 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 2: one group in particular. You know, they seemed like a 176 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 2: healthy community, and they they seemed like they loved Jesus, 177 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: and you know, they were very nice. But and I 178 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 2: felt like I could have lived their life, but it 179 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 2: just really wasn't matching the way I felt called in 180 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 2: my heart. 181 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: How did you end up deciding to become a consecrated vision? 182 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 2: Well, I was nineteen actually, and I visited several communities 183 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 2: and I just realized it wasn't clicking, and I wasn't sure. 184 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 2: Have I just not found the right community yet? This 185 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: is something else. And then I met a priest who 186 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 2: was a younger priest, and he was really excited to 187 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 2: give me literature on vocations and stuff. And I was 188 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 2: really excited to get it because this was actually I'm 189 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 2: only thirty six, so I'm not that old, but this 190 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 2: was actually kind of pre the Internet getting really really big, 191 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 2: and at one point he said, oh, well, would you 192 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,239 Speaker 2: be interested in the part of canon Law on consecrated 193 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 2: life to read just for your own edification? And okay, 194 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 2: you can see how cool I was when I was 195 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 2: a teenager. 196 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: You're reading about consecrated life. 197 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, So I was very excited to read 198 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 2: canon Law when I was nineteen so, and that's when 199 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 2: I stumbled across Cannon six and I remember thinking, huh, 200 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 2: that's interesting. You can still it sounds like you can 201 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 2: still do what Saint Agnes did back in ancient Rome. 202 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 2: And you know, but I didn't know any consecrated virgins. 203 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 2: I never really heard of this. So then I told 204 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 2: the priests that, oh, this is interesting, and he gave 205 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 2: me a copy of the ritual so the Rite of 206 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 2: Consecration to Life of Virginity, which is the prayer for 207 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 2: actually consecrating somebody, and I read it and instantly I 208 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 2: even remember the day. It was November one, two thousand 209 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 2: and four, and I read it and I just knew. 210 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, this is it. It just was so 211 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 2: clear to me in that moment. It just everything in 212 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 2: the prayers, it just it was like a key in 213 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 2: a lock. Just it fit perfectly for the way I 214 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 2: felt called, like every little aspect. So I was nineteen 215 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 2: and we went to the archdiocese at the time and 216 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 2: we were basically I was told, you're nineteen, you're way 217 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 2: too young, so no way. And there was a thought 218 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 2: going around that there was a minimum age limit was 219 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 2: thirty five, and it wasn't really the law. It was 220 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 2: one bishop had an opinion that it should be thirty 221 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 2: five as the minimum age limit, and that kind of 222 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 2: just you know, got around and people sort of assumed 223 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 2: it was law, but it actually wasn't. But I was told, okay, well, 224 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 2: you know, we'd come back when you're thirty five, and 225 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 2: when you're nineteen that is absolutely not what you want 226 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:19,719 Speaker 2: to hear. 227 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: That's a long time. 228 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 2: So I assumed when I was nineteen, okay, well it 229 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 2: sounds like the churches said no. So I assumed, Okay, 230 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 2: I didn't discern this correctly, let me see what God 231 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 2: actually wants. So I spent two more years visiting more communities. 232 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 2: And actually this second round, I was much more focused 233 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 2: and really like not just going where a priest told 234 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 2: me to check out, but like really reading their materials, 235 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 2: seeing okay, is this something I can see myself being 236 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 2: called to? And so I was more focused that way, 237 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 2: and being more focused, I encountered a few more communities 238 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 2: that I could have really seen myself joining, But there 239 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 2: was always this sense that I it wasn't quite that 240 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 2: God wanted something different. And it's hard to explain, but 241 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 2: it was just very clear. So when I was twenty two, 242 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 2: I was thinking, Okay, well, if this is really going 243 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 2: to be a no, I need this to be a very, 244 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 2: very very clear no. So I can set this sense 245 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 2: that I'm called this aside and maybe join one of 246 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 2: these communities with a clear conscience, or not conscience, but 247 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 2: with more a greater sense of peace in my heart 248 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 2: and not constantly having this other thing in the back 249 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 2: of my mind nagging at me. So when I was 250 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: twenty two, I had a meeting with the vicar for 251 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 2: religious in the archdiocese of the time, and I remember 252 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:40,959 Speaker 2: starting the meeting with him saying it was a priest, Oh, well, 253 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 2: you know you are kind of young. But at the 254 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 2: end of the conversation he's like, you know what, I 255 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 2: think you have a vocation. If we need a dispensation, 256 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 2: we can talk about that, and of course we didn't 257 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 2: need a dispensation. 258 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: So Jenna started the process to become a consecrated virgin. 259 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: She says it was a surprise to her parents, but 260 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: eventually they were supportive. 261 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 2: The day I was consecrated was January third, and my parents' 262 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 2: wedding anniversary is January seventh, and my mom was twenty 263 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:05,599 Speaker 2: one when she got married. I was twenty three and 264 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 2: I got consecrated. So it wound up working out that 265 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 2: I could wear my mother's wedding dress, and that was 266 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 2: really just a special detail, you know, an unimportant detail 267 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 2: in the big picture, but that was kind of a 268 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 2: nice symbol to have that day. And they've, yeah, they've 269 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 2: just I think gotten more and more supportive as the 270 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 2: years go on. So at one point I think he 271 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 2: still does this. My dad had like little business cards 272 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 2: like printed up with kenon six o four on it 273 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 2: on the one side on the back that pray for 274 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 2: consecrated virgins, and he keeps them on him when he travels, 275 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 2: and every time he sees a priest, like if he's 276 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 2: traveling and goes to a different like traveling for work 277 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 2: and he goes to different parish, he like hands a 278 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 2: priest to card and it's like really embarrassing, but I 279 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 2: can't really be upset. Yeah, so I tell people my 280 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 2: parents are like embarrassingly supportive. Now. 281 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: Jenna was consecrated in two thousand and nine at a 282 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: church near where she grew up, just north of New 283 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: York City. 284 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 2: You know, a lot of people were very just warm 285 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 2: and supportive at that day, and of course it was 286 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 2: a big day for me, but I was very touched 287 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 2: by that. 288 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: The ceremony feels like this interesting combination of a Catholic 289 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: wedding and the way religious sisters profess their vows. At 290 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: one point in the ceremony, consecrated virgins often lie on 291 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: the floor, bellied down at the front of the church. 292 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes they wear a white wedding dress. They even wear 293 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: a wedding ring, you. 294 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 2: Know, your procession kind of with all the priests. You know, 295 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 2: they come in and it's really one really beautiful thing 296 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 2: about the ceremony of a consecration of virgins. And actually 297 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 2: the ceremony is very different from a nun making vows, 298 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 2: and actually you have two women with you. Among consecrated virgins, 299 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 2: we kind of informally call them bridesmaids, but they're attendants, 300 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 2: so they're I think they're kind of there and make 301 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 2: sure you're standing in the right place because like it's 302 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 2: kind of an overwhelming day. And yeah, so you're sitting 303 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 2: with them in the main part of the church and 304 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 2: a certain point in the mass when you're called forward 305 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 2: and then you enter into the sanctuary, like the part 306 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 2: close to the altar. So that's a really neat Neat 307 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 2: isn't the right word. It's really it's a really neat 308 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 2: symbol of you know, you're being called to belong to 309 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 2: God's exclusively and you're demonstrating that by your moving to 310 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 2: this more sacred part of the church. 311 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: Do you remember what you were feeling when that happened? 312 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 2: You know when that happened. I remember in the whole 313 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 2: ceremony around right before you're entering into the sanctuary, you know, 314 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 2: the bishop and the ceremony asks you basically asking you 315 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 2: to state your resolve and do you promise to do 316 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 2: these things? And I remember saying I do. And church 317 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 2: had good acoustics. I remember hearing it, and I remember 318 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 2: I'd wanted to give my life to God since I 319 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 2: was twelve, so this had been almost half my life 320 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 2: at this point, and there was a sense of like, 321 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 2: I can't there's no going back from this now, and 322 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 2: knowing that I I was closing this door, but feeling 323 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 2: very happy to do it. So I knowing that I 324 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 2: couldn't go back and choose a different path, but doing 325 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 2: that very joyfully. And you know, I, even though I'd 326 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 2: wanted to do this, it not marrying was a sacrifice. 327 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 2: I did experience it that way. But I was really 328 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 2: very happy to give this gift to God. It was 329 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 2: just a joy to be able to give it. And 330 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 2: they always say God can't be out done in generosity. 331 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 2: So it wasn't as one sided as I'm making it sound, 332 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,239 Speaker 2: but that was what was going through my mind at 333 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 2: that moment. 334 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: That's interesting, you know that it did feel you felt 335 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: it sounds like you felt so clearly called to this, 336 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: But it was still a decision to make to give 337 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: something up like a part of life. 338 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely it was. And I and I talked to 339 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 2: a lot of women who are considering this vocation a 340 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 2: lot of times, even just through informal channels like a 341 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 2: priest I know knows somebody. Again, everyone has their own 342 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 2: walk with the Lord, and that can look different for 343 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 2: different people. You know, God speaks in the circumstances of 344 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,439 Speaker 2: our lives. But if a woman doesn't feel that this 345 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 2: is a sacrifice, I would really discourage her from doing this. 346 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 2: You know, obviously if it's a really gut wrenching sacrifice 347 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 2: that you absolutely can't get over or yet peace with, 348 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 2: and okay, God's probably not calling you to this, but 349 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 2: if you don't have a sense that you're giving anything up, 350 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 2: you know, the joy of this vocation and the sacrifice, 351 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 2: they're not two different things. They're two sides of the 352 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 2: same coin. So if that's not something that really a 353 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 2: woman feels like applies to her, like, if she can't, 354 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 2: if it's all sacrifice and no joy, or even all 355 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 2: joy and no sacrifice, then I either she doesn't have 356 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 2: a call to this, which is which is fine because 357 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: not everybody's called to this. This is a relatively unusual call. 358 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 2: But you know, I even wonder, okay she even does 359 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 2: even maybe just need to come to a better understanding 360 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 2: of this. So yeah, it was a very deliberate choice, 361 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,640 Speaker 2: and it was a sacrifice, but again, no regrets. 362 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: What are some of the challenges of being a consecrated virgin? 363 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of challenges that are I 364 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 2: think Jena specific just for my life circumstances, and there 365 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 2: are challenges in general. And one challenge I think as 366 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 2: a church, as consecrated virgins, we're collectively discerning this is 367 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 2: how do you live a life that's healthy and balanced 368 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 2: but sufficiently radical that your sacrifices make sense, Because it 369 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 2: doesn't make sense to sacrifice a husband and children and 370 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 2: family life, which is a tremendous sacrifice. And then when 371 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 2: you sacrifice this, you have this empty space in your heart, 372 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 2: which the idea is you feel it with God. But 373 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 2: if you're not feeling it with God, you're going to 374 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 2: fill it with stupid things. So like what, oh, I 375 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 2: will kind of a joke. I have a cat, I 376 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,239 Speaker 2: kind of a rescue cat I recently adopted, and I 377 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 2: was a little worried that I'd become like a lady 378 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 2: with fifty cats and that would be unhealthy. My mom said, well, 379 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 2: if you have only one cat and you don't put 380 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 2: her in your Christma as cards, you should be Okay. 381 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: That's the that's the border line. 382 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot of different things. I mean, 383 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 2: you can fill with really stupid things like not that 384 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 2: hobbies are bad, but hobbies or or even like you know, 385 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 2: pettiness or you get just to into your job or something. 386 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: I feel like my version of that would be binging television. 387 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 2: Yes, perfect example, That's what I was looking for without 388 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 2: looking for it. 389 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: You are you? Are? 390 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:28,120 Speaker 2: You? Do you ever? 391 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 1: Binge TV? Is that? 392 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 2: Yeah? Sometimes? I mean not. I used to when I 393 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 2: was in Rome, I couldn't watch down to Abby and 394 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 2: I used to binge watch. That's when I come home 395 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 2: for the summers. So yeah, I'm familiar with that concept. 396 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 2: I'm human. 397 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 1: Jenna Cooper's day to day life is pretty similar to 398 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: any other professionals. She works a nine to five as 399 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: a canon lawyer at the marriage tribunal of her local diocese. 400 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: Part of her job is to talk to couples. She 401 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: examines marriages to determine if a marriage can or should 402 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: be annulled. She also answers any canon law questions that 403 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: come from the parish or from local schools. So that's 404 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 1: her job. But one of the things that really sets 405 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: her life apart as a consecrated virgin is prayer and 406 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: how often she does it. 407 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 2: We are obligated to pray a certain amount, and then 408 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 2: you know, even have extra times for private prayer. And 409 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 2: that's that's to me, the most important thing I do 410 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 2: all day. So that's an absolute priority. So for me, 411 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 2: that looks like I go to Mass every day unless 412 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 2: there's some extraordinary circumstance. I book my flights when I 413 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 2: travel around, Okay, can I get to Mass on either end. 414 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 2: That's very, very big priority for me. 415 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: Jenna also praised the liturgy of the Hours, their prayers 416 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: for morning, daytime, evening, and night. 417 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 2: And so that's a series of psalms, different ones that 418 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 2: are saet at different times of the day on like 419 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 2: a rotating four week schedule, so you wound up praying 420 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 2: all one hundred and fifty psalms every month. 421 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: Jenna says that as she gets older, she's experiencing a 422 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: type of joy she didn't expect when she was younger 423 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: in her consecrated life. 424 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 2: I mean, part of this vocation even if you're not 425 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 2: you know, obviously we don't have natural children, we don't 426 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 2: give birth physically, but spiritual motherhood is a big component. 427 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe it sounds like a hokey concept, 428 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 2: but the idea is, even if you're still nurturing people, 429 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 2: you know, on a level of their soul. You're you're 430 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 2: being a real mother, even if you're not you know, 431 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 2: somebody who's given birth. And now that I'm not old 432 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 2: but older, not in my twenties anymore, there's been a 433 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,719 Speaker 2: couple of times when, like one of our local manarians 434 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 2: asked me for prayer, just wanted to talk to me 435 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 2: about something, and almost feeling like they were approaching me 436 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,640 Speaker 2: in this motherly role and very very small little moments 437 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 2: and not something I sought out. But it's a gift 438 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 2: to be able to relate to people that way. 439 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: What is it about the concept of virginity that is 440 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: worth preserving in this way? 441 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 2: So for consecrated virgins, it's you're resolving to persevere in 442 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 2: this virtuous state that you've already been persevering in. For Catholics, 443 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 2: virginity it's it's not just like, oh, I'm spotless, I've 444 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,880 Speaker 2: I haven't made any mistakes. Virginity it's a much more 445 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 2: profound concept. It's a much richer concept. It's full of 446 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 2: deep theological meaning. On a more practical level, I mean, 447 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 2: there's healthy and unhealthy ways to understand virginity, Like I 448 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 2: cringe like with everyone else when there's high school chassis 449 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 2: talks and they compare losing your virginity become used gum 450 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 2: or something like. Nobody likes that. That's not healthy. That 451 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 2: certainly wouldn't be the church's presentation of virginity. You know, 452 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 2: on a theological level, virginity reflects the nature of the Church, 453 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 2: and the Church is Christ's bride. So Jesus died on 454 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 2: the cross for the sake of his bride, the Church. 455 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 2: So again it's all this mutual love. But we talk 456 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 2: about the church as being a virgin and the Old 457 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 2: Testament and scriptures, the people of God were talked about 458 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 2: as a virgin bride to God her spouse. So there's 459 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 2: a lot of imagery with that. But what I think 460 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 2: is especially relevant today is one of my biggest pet 461 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 2: peeves ever in life, is when people talk about early 462 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 2: virgin martyrs, like, oh, it's the patriarchy. So this is 463 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 2: the exact opposite of patriarchy. In the ancient world, women 464 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 2: were only valued by the relationship to a man, so 465 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 2: you were really only valued as like if you could 466 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 2: be a wife to somebody or you know, or God forbid, 467 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 2: like a slave, being a virgin and relating to God directly. 468 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 2: Not I mean married women relate to God directly, but 469 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 2: you know, you could relate to God directly. You have 470 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 2: this human dignity where you could make choices about your destiny. 471 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 2: You could respond to a call freely, and no man 472 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 2: had the right to tell you otherwise. When you grow 473 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 2: up in a society where women have dignity, that might 474 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 2: not be the first thing on your mind when you're 475 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 2: choosing virginity as a spirituality, but that is, you know, 476 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 2: a very important and relevant point. I think one thing 477 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 2: that is really interesting to me too these days is 478 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 2: in the Catholic Church, the priesthood is is male only, 479 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 2: and it's always been that way and it's not going 480 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 2: to change. I'm actually fine with that on a theological level, 481 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 2: because the priesthood, it's really supposed to be about service, 482 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 2: not about power. And even when there is authority, true 483 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 2: authority is you know, always about service, not just self 484 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 2: aggrandizement or something. You know, but the priesthood's all male. 485 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,360 Speaker 2: And then when I was growing up, was always oh, 486 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 2: but girls can become nuns and sisters, But you know, 487 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 2: that's not exactly the same thing, because there were male 488 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 2: religious too, like men can become monks that's basically the 489 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 2: equivalent of a nun, but consecrated virginity, this vocation, this 490 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 2: is actually the only state of life in the church 491 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 2: that's reserved to women, So men categorically can't do this. 492 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 2: So I think it speaks a lot to, you know, 493 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 2: the unique dignity of women that we have this role 494 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 2: as being an icon or an image of the church 495 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 2: or reflection of the Church and relating to Christ in 496 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 2: this very privileged way that's that's unique to us. So 497 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 2: I do find that very meaningful for me in my 498 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 2: own life. 499 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: Thanks to Jenna Cooper for sharing her story with us. 500 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 1: You can learn more about her on her blog Sponsa Christie, 501 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: What do you think? Drop us a note at the 502 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: Turning at rococopunch dot com. That's our O c O 503 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: c O Punch. This episode was written and produced by 504 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: Andrea Assuage. Our executive producers are Jessica Alpert and John 505 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: Parratti at Rococo Punch at Katrina Norvell at iHeartRadio. To 506 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: see a photo from Jenna Cooper's consecration ceremony and for 507 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: more details on this series, follow us on Instagram at 508 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: Rococo punch Hi America Lance, thanks for listening.