WEBVTT - The War on Net Neutrality 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:07.480 Get in tech with technology with text stuff from stuff 0:00:07.480 --> 0:00:14.480 works dot com. Say everyone, and welcome to text Stuff. 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:18.000 I'm Jonathan Strickland and I'm Lauren Boa. Lauren, how are 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:23.040 you feeling today? Um? Pretty well? Yeah, yeah, I'm not 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:26.040 feeling great, so I'm not feeling bad either, kind of 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:29.000 right in the middle, you're sort of neutral. Yeah. By 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:30.680 the way, if you are a long time listener to 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:35.320 tech stuff, you may remember that joke. I'm making it again, 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:38.080 make the same joke in the Okay, So today we're 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.400 talking about net neutrality, and um, Jonathan and Chris did 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:45.239 an episode called how Net Neutrality Works way back on 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:48.680 December fifteenth, two eight, and I made that same joke 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.919 then some jokes. Just I'm glad. I'm glad that you've 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:54.880 advanced so much as a joke teller in the intervening 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:57.600 five years. I learned from my mistakes. I can repeat 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:01.440 them almost exactly. Yeah. So we're gonna talk about net neutrality. 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:03.320 And the reason why we're bringing this back up is 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:06.480 because it's in the news again. It's also you know, 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:08.480 back in two thousand and eight when Chris and I 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:11.600 did the the episode that was before a lot of 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:15.960 the actual FCCS rules and regulations on net neutrality had 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:19.360 been formalized, so there's actually been quite a bit of 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:22.759 development since we first did it. Now the basics remain 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:25.640 the same as in what the actual concept of net 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:28.280 neutrality is. And before we get any further into this, 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:31.440 the reason we're doing this, besides the fact that's in 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:34.360 the news, is that one of our valuable listeners actually 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:36.840 asked us to cover it, right. Yeah, Bob m via 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:39.920 Facebook wrote in and said, how about a podcast on 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:44.480 net neutrality? What other topic is there? Yeah, And and honestly, 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.520 I mean it's it's big, it's very big. It's very ongoing, 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:52.120 as we will slowly unveiled over the course of the 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:55.520 next four hours. No, we're not gonna We're not gonna 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:58.560 do that. But first of all, I mean, this is 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:02.120 a concept that is core to what the intent was 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.240 of the Internet. If you're to talk to any of 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:06.680 the architects of the Internet, any of the people who 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:10.320 built the protocols, whenever they talk about the Internet, this 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:13.720 is the kind of stuff they say was their idea 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:17.119 from the start was this net neutrality approach. So what 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:20.800 does that mean? Well, on a very simple level, it 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.440 means that you should be able to use any Internet 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:27.400 service provider to access any kind of legal service or 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.560 site that's available on the Internet. And it should be 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.200 a level playing field, right, You know that no I 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.560 s P should be allowed to deny a content provider 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:41.840 access to that UM disbursement. Yeah, exactly, So anyone using 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:44.760 it on either side, whether you are someone who's creating 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:47.160 websites and services or you're a person who wants to 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:50.400 consume them, should be able to use any Internet service 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:53.519 provider and expect the same experience. Now, we all know 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:57.320 that things can happen, right There's the Internet is a 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:00.639 network of networks, and so sometimes you can get traffic 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.320 on the network of networks. Sometimes you can get a 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:07.160 server that's overwhelmed. That kind of stuff is based on 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:09.440 the hardware and the signals that are coming through at 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.120 any given point in time. You can run into as 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.160 as we all have many different kinds of of slowdowns 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:20.200 and problems. But right now, so so that's that's that's just, 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.760 that's that's what, Yeah, exactly. You don't want to artificially 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:27.519 introduce those issues, which is really where net neutrality comes along. 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:29.440 So I thought it would be fun to use a 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:31.120 couple of examples, so I wrote them down in my 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:35.680 notes and I got super technical. So you use Joe's 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:38.600 Internet service for your I s P. We're talking, of course, 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.640 about Joe McCormick, our co host from Forward Thinking. Clearly, 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:45.520 he I'm sure has aspirations of running his own Internet 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:48.240 service provider business. And Joe has a lot of aspiration. 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:53.160 He does. He aspires constantly. So Joe has his Internet 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:56.960 service provider, that's your I s P. You use Joe's. Now, 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:00.800 you typically visit three sites. Now, one of those sites 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:04.440 happens to be run by Joe. He's not. He's not 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:07.040 just the provider. He's also a content creator. Oh yeah, 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.120 he's a really good writer. Yeah. So then you've got 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:11.520 these two other sites that are not Joe's. Now, under 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:13.880 the rules of net neutrality, you would be able to 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.880 visit all three of those sites with an equal playing field, 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:19.599 and that the same speed and bandwidth would apply across 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.560 all three sites. Keeping in mind, like we said before, 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:26.520 sometimes on the Internet, traffic clog stuff up. So maybe 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.400 one day one site loads a little more slowly than another, 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:33.520 but they're all using the same kind of connections. Now, 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:38.000 let's imagine a dark scary world where net neutrality is 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:42.400 no longer in play, and you again are using Joe's 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.400 Internet service, but now it's not acting the same way 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:49.320 dead back in the in the glory days of net neutrality. Now, 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:53.920 when you visit Joe's website, it loads incredibly fast, it's 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.600 almost instantaneous. But whenever you try and go to one 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:58.279 of those other two sites you used to go to 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.440 all the time, it just takes forever for them to load. 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:04.160 Sometimes they don't load at all, and you might even 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.360 be denied the access to them. This is the world 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.160 where Joe is able to decide what stuff you can 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:13.120 access and how quickly you can access it. So what 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:16.240 you're saying is that Joe is on purpose throttling my 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.479 connection to these websites that he doesn't known, throttling the 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:22.720 life out of it, Lauren, That's exactly what I'm saying. Yeah, 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:25.159 So this is the fear of net neutrality, uh, and 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:27.680 and what would happen if it goes away? And why 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:31.400 the story is so important right now? So there are 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:35.440 a lot of different implications with net neutrality and or 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:39.640 the absence of net neutrality. Uh. You could end up 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:43.440 not just having an I s P that gives preferential 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:47.840 treatment to certain sites while holding other sites back. You 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.400 could also have an I s P that ends up 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.280 creating a tiered system, right, you might have imagine all 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:58.039 the different scenarios. I could have a system where, uh, 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:01.279 let's say that for one price, like a baseline price, 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:05.279 I get the I s P service where certain sites 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:07.800 load up very quickly. Anything that belongs to the Internet 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:11.479 service provider or partners with them loads quickly. Everything else 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:14.719 loads really slowly. Maybe there's a higher level of service 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.080 where if I'm willing to pay more as a customer, 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:21.440 then I get a level playing ground. Like that's a possibility, 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:23.600 but it means that you know, you suddenly are are 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:26.320 having to choose, you know what, what's going to happen. 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:29.680 Or if they don't offer that choice, then you have 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:35.040 a scary world where you have a fractured internet. Right. So, 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:38.920 depending upon which Internet service provider you happen to subscribe to, 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.320 you would have access to certain sites and not and 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:46.560 services and not access to other ones. So let's say, Lauren, 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:49.400 that you are a Comcast customer and I'm an a 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.600 T and T customer. It's possible that our two experiences 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:55.159 of the Internet are completely different, and that you go 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:57.159 to sites that I can't go to and vice versa, 0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:59.359 kind of similar to the to the way that some 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:04.120 cable television providers will offer certain packages of channels that 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:07.400 others do not. Yeah. In fact, it really reminds me 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:11.520 of the old days of online service providers, where you 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:14.040 might have like a O l as one and I 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:18.160 have uh Spring Prodigy, thank you, Yeah, I'll have Prodigy. 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.040 Is another one which means that you get content over 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.600 the Internet, but well, not over the Internet online, I 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:26.960 should say, because online service providers, you get content online. 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.320 I get content online, but it's two totally different packages 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.720 of content based upon what those companies curate for us. 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:37.080 That's kind of what the Internet could potentially turn into 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.800 without net neutrality, and it's why a lot of people 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:42.720 are upset. Now. There of course, are multiple sites of 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:45.760 this argument. It's not all just you know, it sounds 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:48.280 like I'm I'm painting this picture where there's just one side, 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:50.480 ah right, right, and you are kind of painting the 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:54.280 the deepest orwelly in kind of dystopia of of the 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:58.480 absence of net neutrality. But there are arguments against net 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:00.760 neutrality and to be fair lot of them are are 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.400 being put forth on behalf of people who could who 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:08.920 could um stand to financially benefit from the absence, right right? Um? 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.160 But you know, the arguments against it state that like 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.560 over regulation of the Internet by the government could create 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:18.960 uncertainty in the Internet market, um, thus discouraging investment and 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:24.320 stifling innovation. Um, which maybe, I mean there are other 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:27.640 the The counter to that is saying that a fair 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:32.320 playing field creates a fluid market that everyone can play on. So, 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:36.600 for example, a smaller internet service would be able to 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:40.040 effectively run a business on a level playing field, but 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:42.920 could be completely run out of business in a world 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.320 where I s p s choose who they play with 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.160 and who they don't, right. Or you know, if if 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:50.280 you set up kind of expense tears for how much 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.520 bandwidth you're going to get, then someone like Amazon could 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:55.800 play in that field. But could your you know, mom 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:59.600 and pop corner website do the same thing? Maybe not? Yeah, yeah, 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:03.120 if you're a multibillion corporation, you're gonna milk billion dollar 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.320 I should say billion dollar corporation. You you could afford this, 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:08.840 You're still gonna fight it. I mean, any any corporation 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:10.600 is gonna fight if it means that they are going 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.320 to have to pay something that otherwise they would not 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:15.880 have to pay, they'll fight against it or pass the 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:19.719 buck onto their customer a k A. Yeah, yeah, their 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:22.959 customer ultimately will be us, whether their customer, like maybe 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:26.479 their first customer is another company, but that company's customers 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:28.880 might be us. You know, Eventually it trickles down to 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:31.760 where we end up having higher prices for the services 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:34.120 and and and sites that we want to be able 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.000 to utilize. Right well, although you know, I would also 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:39.640 argue that the counter to that would be that either 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:42.480 way we are paying for our Internet service, and whether 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.160 we're paying more to the internet service providers or to 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:47.840 these companies that might end up in a mafia like 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:51.080 situation have to pay their Internet service providers. The bandwidth 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:54.600 Sure is a nice website you got here, be a 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:57.840 real shame at someone out and they'll burn it down. No, 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:01.040 I mean, I I think the analogy is perfectly legitimate. 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:03.160 I mean, I would not back off of that for 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:04.760 a second. I think I think the two of us 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.280 are clearly a little bit biased that neutrality. We might 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:10.959 be just a touch, but then again, our livelihood depends 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:14.160 upon the Internet. So it does, and you know it's so, 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:15.800 so take take everything that we're saying with a little 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:17.560 bit of a grain of salt. But um, but back 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:20.160 to back to arguments against it, because I do think 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.200 that that creating uncertainty in the Internet market due to 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:26.840 overregulation is a completely fair Yes, for sure, you could 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:31.040 you could make rules and regulations that far overstep the 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:35.160 intent level playing ground. Yes, I agree, that is entirely bad. 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:37.720 If you put in regulations that put the I s 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.520 p s at a disadvantageous position, then there's no reason 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:43.720 to be in that business anymore, and then we're stuck 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.680 in a totally different problem. So yes, the regulations have 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.040 to be fair and they have to be level. Yeah, 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:51.960 otherwise it's just bad news. And there's there's also the 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.959 argument that those kind of regulations could prevent I s 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:58.800 p s to from managing traffic on their networks, and 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.280 those those arguments have been made in court before, and 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:03.680 most of the time, from what I've seen, the FCC 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.920 has said the which we'll talk more about the FCC later, 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:10.720 but they tend to say, uh that networks do have 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.760 the right to to take care of traffic. So if 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:18.640 there are traffic bottlenecks or problems rerouting that is perfectly 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:23.800 within the rights of that company, because ultimately that's better 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:26.520 for everybody. Oh sure, not no one. I don't think that. 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.319 I don't think that the government wants to have their 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.640 fingers that deep in it, because that sounds problematic for Yeah, 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:36.000 that would be I mean apart from the n s 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:38.480 A who has their elbows deep into it. Yeah, I 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:40.559 don't think the government really wants to get that involved. 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.080 Oh that's a whole other podcast. But they're not so 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:46.320 much concerned about about traffic bottlenecks. They're more concerned about 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.480 the content. So let's be fair, Okay. Another argument against 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:52.240 IT neutrality says that competition between I s p s 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:58.280 will naturally discourage anyone company from throttling business from content providers. 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:00.320 I would I would agree with that if it were 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:03.400 the case that as a consumer I had equal access 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:06.160 to all I s p s. Because here's the reality 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.480 in the United States. I don't know about the rest 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:11.240 of the world, but in the US, it is uh 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:16.040 not uncommon to have a very few, a very limited 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:18.040 selection of choices when it comes to I s p s, 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:21.000 particularly if you live someplace like say an apartment complex, 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:25.800 which might have a contract with a particular provider. I've 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:28.520 I've lived in an apartment complexes where you didn't have 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.400 any choice. If you wanted to have cable access, cable 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:35.520 internet access, or just cable TV access, you had one option, 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:37.720 uh and if you didn't want that option, then it 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:41.120 meant you didn't have that service. So it's not like 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.600 I have access to all of these. You might have 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:46.120 access to some smaller I s p s. But even 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:47.880 though smaller I s p s most of the time 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:51.480 are working on the larger I s p s actual networks. 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:53.679 So it's possible that if a larger I s P 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:57.920 has these policies that go against net neutrality, that it 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:00.640 would trickle down to these other smaller one And so 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:02.600 you feel like you're going to avoid it because you're 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.800 not going with the big guy who has the scary policy. 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:07.800 But if the little guys working on the big guys network, 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:12.280 it may still affect you. So I mean, I wish 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:14.280 we lived in the world where we had all those choices, 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:16.559 because then I think this wouldn't be a problem. All 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.000 you would what would happen is you would have UH 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:23.040 I s p s that would experiment with throttling certain 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.480 traffic and allowing other traffic to go quickly. Other I 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:28.440 s p s would say, Hey, if we don't do that, 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:30.880 we're going to get lots of customers, and then the 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.880 playing ground would would level out through that. But that's 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:36.040 not the reality. Yeah, that's the way that it stands. 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:42.040 It's not really all. That's not real. Yeah, problem um. 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:44.760 But so in essence, what this campus saying is that 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:49.640 creating net neutrality regulations is fixing what's not broken and 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.400 that generally bad. Yeah, I I and I can understand that. 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:57.160 My counter to that is net neutrality rules prevent it 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:00.160 from breaking. So it's not that it's fixing something it's 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.480 not broken, it's making sure it doesn't break. Because it's 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:06.160 better to be proactive than reactive in this case, is 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.520 my is my personal point of view now that I 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:13.160 can't stress that enough. That's my personal philosophy. Is it's 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:15.920 better to go ahead and have these in place to 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:19.760 protect against breaking. And and especially considering that a lot 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:23.080 of you know, like we've been talking about using Joe, 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.480 is that example. For example, Comcast has its own streaming 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:30.360 services and it might be advantageous to Comcast to throttle, 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:34.480 say Netflix, sure, yeah, exact financially, because then you've got 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.560 you know, if you are discouraging people from using a 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.440 competing service, then they're more likely to use your service. 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:44.360 At least that's generally the line of thinking. So if 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.720 I happen to be both an I s P and 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:51.760 a content creator, then it certainly is within my interests 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:54.160 to make sure that the experience of getting to my 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:56.840 stuff is painless. And if I can make getting to 0:14:56.920 --> 0:15:00.920 competitor stuff painful or at least not convenient, it, then 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:04.040 I am making extra money. Right. Not only am I 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:08.280 making money off of charging people to use the Internet 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:12.200 because I'm an Internet service provider, but theoretically there's some 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.400 other means of generating revenue through the content I create 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:18.520 as well, So you end up making lots of cash. 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.840 And if you then charge other companies to be put 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.560 on that same fast track, you're making money that way too. 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:26.560 There's a lot of money here in build books. That's 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:30.080 kind of when I'm getting at um, speaking of money, money, 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.920 you know, it actually costs money to build out infrastructure. 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:35.200 It costs money to be able to support the amount 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:37.760 of traffic that's going on a network. So you know, 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.280 it means that, you know, they have to have that 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.720 money because it is a business. It's not like it's 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:46.240 it's some sort of weird charity or public good thing. 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.800 This is a business and businesses are in it to 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.720 generate revenue and profits. So in order to do that 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.560 there and and still build out a competitive infrastructure and 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:59.960 maintain it, uh, that that's a cost. That's an ongoing 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.600 post and it's it's a really high and really um 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:05.600 intricate cost. Actually, I mean, I think that probably most 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:09.280 people listening to this show have have broadband internet access 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:10.800 and take it a little bit for granted at this 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:13.840 juncture because it's probably in your pocket and your desktop 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:16.840 at home and etcetera, etcetera. But that is that is 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.040 not what most of the world has at this point. 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.320 And if anyone I s P or or any number 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:25.000 of is sp s even could afford to build out 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:29.440 their infrastructure further, that would be a great boon to them. Right. So, 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:31.960 so obviously this is you know, like we said, it's 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.840 a pretty complicated issue that the concept of net neutrality 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.680 is incredibly simple, but the end, the the consequences of 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:42.440 what happens if net neutrality isn't a factor. Are pretty complex, 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.440 So there's you know, there are a lot of different 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.320 ways to approach this. I mean, there's the hope that 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:52.080 the market would support net neutrality simply on its own 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:56.240 because it's the most advantageous for everybody. That's that's sort 0:16:56.240 --> 0:17:00.200 of the ideal, but it's not necessarily proven. Uh. Then 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:03.080 there's the fact that we've had some government agencies step 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:06.640 in and try and create some regulations and some rules 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:11.760 to codify the net neutrality so that it ends up 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:14.800 being de facto. That's that's the situation, right, that's gonna 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:17.520 be the status quo, and to go outside of that 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.480 would be breaking the law. But that itself is complicated, 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:22.399 so complicated in fact, that we're going to take a 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:27.159 quick break right now to thank our sponsor. Alright, So, 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:31.000 like we said, there are there's a in the United States, 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:34.640 we've actually had some government regulations step in and recently 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:37.480 it was overturned, which is a big thing in the news. 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.560 But to start off, we need to talk about the 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:45.879 agency that tried to create actual legal rules to govern 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:49.280 net neutrality, and that is the Federal Communications Commission or 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:53.080 f c C. Now, their their job is to regulate 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:58.359 interstate and international communications by radio, television, wire, satellite, and cable. 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:02.240 So some of the FCC's duties have gotten a little 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:05.919 cloudy because those definitions aren't as clear cut as they 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:08.399 used to be. Yeah, when the FCC was created, the 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.359 Internet didn't exist, So what to do with all of 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:14.920 this new fangled stuff has been certainly in question many 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:17.840 times over the past few decades, and early on the 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:21.480 Internet's life, there was a fear that putting it under 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:24.200 the mantle of the f c C would stifle its 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:27.320 ability to grow. And you know, that was one of 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:29.600 those real concerns, was the idea that you know, you 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.679 could kill this before it could be anything by putting 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:36.520 in too much oversight and regulation. So there's a lot 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.720 of hesitancy on the part of the government to step 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:42.639 in and really, you know, get involved in this. And 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.520 in fact, if you if you look at the history 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:48.480 of f c C getting involved with with net neutrality, 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.360 it's relatively recent. I mean keep in mind that the 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:55.280 Internet and the Worldwide Web even it's been around for 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.080 a few decades now, but it wasn't until two thousand 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.320 five that FCC really gotten of the net neutrality well 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:03.359 to well to back up just a little bit, I 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:07.600 did want to put in that the FCC defines broadband 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:11.760 providers as being different from other telecommunication systems, and that 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:15.440 was laid out back in with the Federal Talngue Communications 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:19.600 Act of Yeah. And then the thing to remember is 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:25.320 that broadband providers are in information services, right, which is 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:29.040 different from the telecommunication services, which was considered more of 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:33.800 the actual networks that allow people to uh to make 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:36.560 calls or whatever whatever those systems happened to be that 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.720 the FEC looks over. So that's important because that that 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:43.200 distinction ends up being the very key to the to 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:47.000 the arguments that we're seeing come to light right now, right, 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:50.480 And this this distinction was upheld in a two five 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:55.080 Supreme Court decision of the National Cable and Telecommunication Association 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:58.320 versus Brand X Internet Services. This will come back in 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.840 a moment. But um, other things that happened in two five, well, yeah, 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:05.280 that's when the FCC created the Open Internet Regulations, also 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:08.240 known as net neutrality. And these were rules that were 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.800 announced in two thousand five and included that well, they 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.280 said essentially that consumers are entitled to certain rights which 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:18.280 include access to the lawful Internet content of their choice, 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.840 So clearly anything that's against the law, things that violate 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:25.520 copyright for example, or have illicit material in them, they 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:30.359 are not protected. Also the ability to run applications and 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:33.800 services of their choice, so again internet connected services, in 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.680 other words, not limiting it just to using a browser 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:38.920 to look at a website, but all things connected to 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:42.840 the Internet, including things like email, etcetera. Then also the 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:45.600 ability to connect the types of devices of their choice 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.960 to the network, assuming those devices are legal and aren't 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:51.600 designed to hurt the network, which is great. This is 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:56.240 saying that your internet service provider would not be allowed to, uh, 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:59.880 say yes, you can completely hook up your your laptop 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.320 to the cable modem, but we're not going to allow 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:06.119 any mobile devices to hook up to WiFi rite or 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:08.240 to say, um, yes you can hook up your Mac, 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.160 but you cannot hook up your PC. Yeah, that would 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.600 be That would be another great example. So this rule 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:17.119 would essentially say no, it has to be agnostic towards 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:20.439 all platforms that are capable of connecting to your network, 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:22.760 assuming that they're not designed to hurt it or be 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:26.000 you know, or that there they themselves are illegal, and 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:30.000 then also said that uh, customers are entitled to access 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:34.720 to competing services among networks and content providers. Uh, well, 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:36.879 there's a little I mean, like I said, in certain 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:40.520 areas in the United States, internet service providers operate at 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:44.440 an effective monopoly, so that one is probably the weakest 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.720