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Speaker 1: Get in tech with technology with text stuff from stuff

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Speaker 1: works dot com. Say everyone, and welcome to text Stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Strickland and I'm Lauren Boa. Lauren, how are

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Speaker 1: you feeling today? Um? Pretty well? Yeah, yeah, I'm not

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Speaker 1: feeling great, so I'm not feeling bad either, kind of

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Speaker 1: right in the middle, you're sort of neutral. Yeah. By

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Speaker 1: the way, if you are a long time listener to

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Speaker 1: tech stuff, you may remember that joke. I'm making it again,

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Speaker 1: make the same joke in the Okay, So today we're

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Speaker 1: talking about net neutrality, and um, Jonathan and Chris did

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Speaker 1: an episode called how Net Neutrality Works way back on

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Speaker 1: December fifteenth, two eight, and I made that same joke

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Speaker 1: then some jokes. Just I'm glad. I'm glad that you've

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Speaker 1: advanced so much as a joke teller in the intervening

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Speaker 1: five years. I learned from my mistakes. I can repeat

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Speaker 1: them almost exactly. Yeah. So we're gonna talk about net neutrality.

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Speaker 1: And the reason why we're bringing this back up is

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Speaker 1: because it's in the news again. It's also you know,

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Speaker 1: back in two thousand and eight when Chris and I

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Speaker 1: did the the episode that was before a lot of

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Speaker 1: the actual FCCS rules and regulations on net neutrality had

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Speaker 1: been formalized, so there's actually been quite a bit of

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Speaker 1: development since we first did it. Now the basics remain

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Speaker 1: the same as in what the actual concept of net

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Speaker 1: neutrality is. And before we get any further into this,

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Speaker 1: the reason we're doing this, besides the fact that's in

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Speaker 1: the news, is that one of our valuable listeners actually

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Speaker 1: asked us to cover it, right. Yeah, Bob m via

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Speaker 1: Facebook wrote in and said, how about a podcast on

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Speaker 1: net neutrality? What other topic is there? Yeah, And and honestly,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's it's big, it's very big. It's very ongoing,

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Speaker 1: as we will slowly unveiled over the course of the

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Speaker 1: next four hours. No, we're not gonna We're not gonna

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Speaker 1: do that. But first of all, I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: a concept that is core to what the intent was

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Speaker 1: of the Internet. If you're to talk to any of

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Speaker 1: the architects of the Internet, any of the people who

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Speaker 1: built the protocols, whenever they talk about the Internet, this

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Speaker 1: is the kind of stuff they say was their idea

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Speaker 1: from the start was this net neutrality approach. So what

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Speaker 1: does that mean? Well, on a very simple level, it

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Speaker 1: means that you should be able to use any Internet

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Speaker 1: service provider to access any kind of legal service or

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Speaker 1: site that's available on the Internet. And it should be

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Speaker 1: a level playing field, right, You know that no I

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Speaker 1: s P should be allowed to deny a content provider

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Speaker 1: access to that UM disbursement. Yeah, exactly, So anyone using

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Speaker 1: it on either side, whether you are someone who's creating

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Speaker 1: websites and services or you're a person who wants to

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Speaker 1: consume them, should be able to use any Internet service

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Speaker 1: provider and expect the same experience. Now, we all know

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Speaker 1: that things can happen, right There's the Internet is a

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Speaker 1: network of networks, and so sometimes you can get traffic

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Speaker 1: on the network of networks. Sometimes you can get a

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Speaker 1: server that's overwhelmed. That kind of stuff is based on

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Speaker 1: the hardware and the signals that are coming through at

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Speaker 1: any given point in time. You can run into as

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Speaker 1: as we all have many different kinds of of slowdowns

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Speaker 1: and problems. But right now, so so that's that's that's just,

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Speaker 1: that's that's what, Yeah, exactly. You don't want to artificially

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Speaker 1: introduce those issues, which is really where net neutrality comes along.

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Speaker 1: So I thought it would be fun to use a

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Speaker 1: couple of examples, so I wrote them down in my

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Speaker 1: notes and I got super technical. So you use Joe's

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Speaker 1: Internet service for your I s P. We're talking, of course,

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Speaker 1: about Joe McCormick, our co host from Forward Thinking. Clearly,

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Speaker 1: he I'm sure has aspirations of running his own Internet

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Speaker 1: service provider business. And Joe has a lot of aspiration.

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Speaker 1: He does. He aspires constantly. So Joe has his Internet

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Speaker 1: service provider, that's your I s P. You use Joe's. Now,

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Speaker 1: you typically visit three sites. Now, one of those sites

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Speaker 1: happens to be run by Joe. He's not. He's not

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Speaker 1: just the provider. He's also a content creator. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's a really good writer. Yeah. So then you've got

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Speaker 1: these two other sites that are not Joe's. Now, under

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Speaker 1: the rules of net neutrality, you would be able to

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Speaker 1: visit all three of those sites with an equal playing field,

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Speaker 1: and that the same speed and bandwidth would apply across

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Speaker 1: all three sites. Keeping in mind, like we said before,

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Speaker 1: sometimes on the Internet, traffic clog stuff up. So maybe

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Speaker 1: one day one site loads a little more slowly than another,

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Speaker 1: but they're all using the same kind of connections. Now,

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Speaker 1: let's imagine a dark scary world where net neutrality is

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Speaker 1: no longer in play, and you again are using Joe's

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Speaker 1: Internet service, but now it's not acting the same way

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Speaker 1: dead back in the in the glory days of net neutrality. Now,

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Speaker 1: when you visit Joe's website, it loads incredibly fast, it's

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Speaker 1: almost instantaneous. But whenever you try and go to one

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Speaker 1: of those other two sites you used to go to

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Speaker 1: all the time, it just takes forever for them to load.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they don't load at all, and you might even

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Speaker 1: be denied the access to them. This is the world

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Speaker 1: where Joe is able to decide what stuff you can

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Speaker 1: access and how quickly you can access it. So what

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Speaker 1: you're saying is that Joe is on purpose throttling my

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Speaker 1: connection to these websites that he doesn't known, throttling the

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Speaker 1: life out of it, Lauren, That's exactly what I'm saying. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So this is the fear of net neutrality, uh, and

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Speaker 1: and what would happen if it goes away? And why

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Speaker 1: the story is so important right now? So there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of different implications with net neutrality and or

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Speaker 1: the absence of net neutrality. Uh. You could end up

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Speaker 1: not just having an I s P that gives preferential

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Speaker 1: treatment to certain sites while holding other sites back. You

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Speaker 1: could also have an I s P that ends up

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Speaker 1: creating a tiered system, right, you might have imagine all

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Speaker 1: the different scenarios. I could have a system where, uh,

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Speaker 1: let's say that for one price, like a baseline price,

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Speaker 1: I get the I s P service where certain sites

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Speaker 1: load up very quickly. Anything that belongs to the Internet

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Speaker 1: service provider or partners with them loads quickly. Everything else

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Speaker 1: loads really slowly. Maybe there's a higher level of service

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Speaker 1: where if I'm willing to pay more as a customer,

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Speaker 1: then I get a level playing ground. Like that's a possibility,

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Speaker 1: but it means that you know, you suddenly are are

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Speaker 1: having to choose, you know what, what's going to happen.

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Speaker 1: Or if they don't offer that choice, then you have

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Speaker 1: a scary world where you have a fractured internet. Right. So,

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Speaker 1: depending upon which Internet service provider you happen to subscribe to,

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Speaker 1: you would have access to certain sites and not and

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Speaker 1: services and not access to other ones. So let's say, Lauren,

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Speaker 1: that you are a Comcast customer and I'm an a

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Speaker 1: T and T customer. It's possible that our two experiences

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Speaker 1: of the Internet are completely different, and that you go

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Speaker 1: to sites that I can't go to and vice versa,

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Speaker 1: kind of similar to the to the way that some

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Speaker 1: cable television providers will offer certain packages of channels that

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Speaker 1: others do not. Yeah. In fact, it really reminds me

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Speaker 1: of the old days of online service providers, where you

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Speaker 1: might have like a O l as one and I

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Speaker 1: have uh Spring Prodigy, thank you, Yeah, I'll have Prodigy.

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Speaker 1: Is another one which means that you get content over

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Speaker 1: the Internet, but well, not over the Internet online, I

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Speaker 1: should say, because online service providers, you get content online.

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Speaker 1: I get content online, but it's two totally different packages

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Speaker 1: of content based upon what those companies curate for us.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of what the Internet could potentially turn into

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Speaker 1: without net neutrality, and it's why a lot of people

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Speaker 1: are upset. Now. There of course, are multiple sites of

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Speaker 1: this argument. It's not all just you know, it sounds

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Speaker 1: like I'm I'm painting this picture where there's just one side,

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Speaker 1: ah right, right, and you are kind of painting the

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Speaker 1: the deepest orwelly in kind of dystopia of of the

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Speaker 1: absence of net neutrality. But there are arguments against net

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Speaker 1: neutrality and to be fair lot of them are are

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Speaker 1: being put forth on behalf of people who could who

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Speaker 1: could um stand to financially benefit from the absence, right right? Um?

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Speaker 1: But you know, the arguments against it state that like

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Speaker 1: over regulation of the Internet by the government could create

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Speaker 1: uncertainty in the Internet market, um, thus discouraging investment and

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Speaker 1: stifling innovation. Um, which maybe, I mean there are other

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Speaker 1: the The counter to that is saying that a fair

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Speaker 1: playing field creates a fluid market that everyone can play on. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, a smaller internet service would be able to

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Speaker 1: effectively run a business on a level playing field, but

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Speaker 1: could be completely run out of business in a world

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Speaker 1: where I s p s choose who they play with

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Speaker 1: and who they don't, right. Or you know, if if

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Speaker 1: you set up kind of expense tears for how much

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Speaker 1: bandwidth you're going to get, then someone like Amazon could

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Speaker 1: play in that field. But could your you know, mom

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Speaker 1: and pop corner website do the same thing? Maybe not? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you're a multibillion corporation, you're gonna milk billion dollar

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Speaker 1: I should say billion dollar corporation. You you could afford this,

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Speaker 1: You're still gonna fight it. I mean, any any corporation

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Speaker 1: is gonna fight if it means that they are going

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Speaker 1: to have to pay something that otherwise they would not

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Speaker 1: have to pay, they'll fight against it or pass the

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Speaker 1: buck onto their customer a k A. Yeah, yeah, their

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Speaker 1: customer ultimately will be us, whether their customer, like maybe

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Speaker 1: their first customer is another company, but that company's customers

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Speaker 1: might be us. You know, Eventually it trickles down to

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Speaker 1: where we end up having higher prices for the services

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Speaker 1: and and and sites that we want to be able

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Speaker 1: to utilize. Right well, although you know, I would also

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Speaker 1: argue that the counter to that would be that either

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Speaker 1: way we are paying for our Internet service, and whether

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Speaker 1: we're paying more to the internet service providers or to

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Speaker 1: these companies that might end up in a mafia like

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Speaker 1: situation have to pay their Internet service providers. The bandwidth

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Speaker 1: Sure is a nice website you got here, be a

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Speaker 1: real shame at someone out and they'll burn it down. No,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I I think the analogy is perfectly legitimate.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I would not back off of that for

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Speaker 1: a second. I think I think the two of us

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Speaker 1: are clearly a little bit biased that neutrality. We might

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Speaker 1: be just a touch, but then again, our livelihood depends

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Speaker 1: upon the Internet. So it does, and you know it's so,

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Speaker 1: so take take everything that we're saying with a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a grain of salt. But um, but back

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Speaker 1: to back to arguments against it, because I do think

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Speaker 1: that that creating uncertainty in the Internet market due to

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Speaker 1: overregulation is a completely fair Yes, for sure, you could

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Speaker 1: you could make rules and regulations that far overstep the

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Speaker 1: intent level playing ground. Yes, I agree, that is entirely bad.

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Speaker 1: If you put in regulations that put the I s

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Speaker 1: p s at a disadvantageous position, then there's no reason

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Speaker 1: to be in that business anymore, and then we're stuck

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Speaker 1: in a totally different problem. So yes, the regulations have

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Speaker 1: to be fair and they have to be level. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: otherwise it's just bad news. And there's there's also the

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Speaker 1: argument that those kind of regulations could prevent I s

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Speaker 1: p s to from managing traffic on their networks, and

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Speaker 1: those those arguments have been made in court before, and

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Speaker 1: most of the time, from what I've seen, the FCC

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Speaker 1: has said the which we'll talk more about the FCC later,

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Speaker 1: but they tend to say, uh that networks do have

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Speaker 1: the right to to take care of traffic. So if

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Speaker 1: there are traffic bottlenecks or problems rerouting that is perfectly

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Speaker 1: within the rights of that company, because ultimately that's better

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Speaker 1: for everybody. Oh sure, not no one. I don't think that.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that the government wants to have their

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Speaker 1: fingers that deep in it, because that sounds problematic for Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would be I mean apart from the n s

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Speaker 1: A who has their elbows deep into it. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't think the government really wants to get that involved.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's a whole other podcast. But they're not so

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Speaker 1: much concerned about about traffic bottlenecks. They're more concerned about

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Speaker 1: the content. So let's be fair, Okay. Another argument against

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Speaker 1: IT neutrality says that competition between I s p s

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Speaker 1: will naturally discourage anyone company from throttling business from content providers.

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Speaker 1: I would I would agree with that if it were

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Speaker 1: the case that as a consumer I had equal access

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Speaker 1: to all I s p s. Because here's the reality

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Speaker 1: in the United States. I don't know about the rest

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Speaker 1: of the world, but in the US, it is uh

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Speaker 1: not uncommon to have a very few, a very limited

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Speaker 1: selection of choices when it comes to I s p s,

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Speaker 1: particularly if you live someplace like say an apartment complex,

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Speaker 1: which might have a contract with a particular provider. I've

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Speaker 1: I've lived in an apartment complexes where you didn't have

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Speaker 1: any choice. If you wanted to have cable access, cable

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Speaker 1: internet access, or just cable TV access, you had one option,

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Speaker 1: uh and if you didn't want that option, then it

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Speaker 1: meant you didn't have that service. So it's not like

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Speaker 1: I have access to all of these. You might have

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Speaker 1: access to some smaller I s p s. But even

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Speaker 1: though smaller I s p s most of the time

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Speaker 1: are working on the larger I s p s actual networks.

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Speaker 1: So it's possible that if a larger I s P

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Speaker 1: has these policies that go against net neutrality, that it

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Speaker 1: would trickle down to these other smaller one And so

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Speaker 1: you feel like you're going to avoid it because you're

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Speaker 1: not going with the big guy who has the scary policy.

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Speaker 1: But if the little guys working on the big guys network,

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Speaker 1: it may still affect you. So I mean, I wish

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Speaker 1: we lived in the world where we had all those choices,

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Speaker 1: because then I think this wouldn't be a problem. All

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Speaker 1: you would what would happen is you would have UH

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Speaker 1: I s p s that would experiment with throttling certain

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Speaker 1: traffic and allowing other traffic to go quickly. Other I

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Speaker 1: s p s would say, Hey, if we don't do that,

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Speaker 1: we're going to get lots of customers, and then the

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Speaker 1: playing ground would would level out through that. But that's

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Speaker 1: not the reality. Yeah, that's the way that it stands.

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Speaker 1: It's not really all. That's not real. Yeah, problem um.

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Speaker 1: But so in essence, what this campus saying is that

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Speaker 1: creating net neutrality regulations is fixing what's not broken and

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Speaker 1: that generally bad. Yeah, I I and I can understand that.

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Speaker 1: My counter to that is net neutrality rules prevent it

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Speaker 1: from breaking. So it's not that it's fixing something it's

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Speaker 1: not broken, it's making sure it doesn't break. Because it's

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Speaker 1: better to be proactive than reactive in this case, is

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Speaker 1: my is my personal point of view now that I

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Speaker 1: can't stress that enough. That's my personal philosophy. Is it's

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Speaker 1: better to go ahead and have these in place to

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Speaker 1: protect against breaking. And and especially considering that a lot

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Speaker 1: of you know, like we've been talking about using Joe,

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Speaker 1: is that example. For example, Comcast has its own streaming

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Speaker 1: services and it might be advantageous to Comcast to throttle,

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Speaker 1: say Netflix, sure, yeah, exact financially, because then you've got

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Speaker 1: you know, if you are discouraging people from using a

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Speaker 1: competing service, then they're more likely to use your service.

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Speaker 1: At least that's generally the line of thinking. So if

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Speaker 1: I happen to be both an I s P and

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Speaker 1: a content creator, then it certainly is within my interests

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Speaker 1: to make sure that the experience of getting to my

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Speaker 1: stuff is painless. And if I can make getting to

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Speaker 1: competitor stuff painful or at least not convenient, it, then

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Speaker 1: I am making extra money. Right. Not only am I

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Speaker 1: making money off of charging people to use the Internet

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Speaker 1: because I'm an Internet service provider, but theoretically there's some

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Speaker 1: other means of generating revenue through the content I create

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Speaker 1: as well, So you end up making lots of cash.

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Speaker 1: And if you then charge other companies to be put

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Speaker 1: on that same fast track, you're making money that way too.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of money here in build books. That's

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Speaker 1: kind of when I'm getting at um, speaking of money, money,

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Speaker 1: you know, it actually costs money to build out infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: It costs money to be able to support the amount

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Speaker 1: of traffic that's going on a network. So you know,

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Speaker 1: it means that, you know, they have to have that

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Speaker 1: money because it is a business. It's not like it's

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Speaker 1: it's some sort of weird charity or public good thing.

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Speaker 1: This is a business and businesses are in it to

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Speaker 1: generate revenue and profits. So in order to do that

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Speaker 1: there and and still build out a competitive infrastructure and

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Speaker 1: maintain it, uh, that that's a cost. That's an ongoing

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Speaker 1: post and it's it's a really high and really um

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Speaker 1: intricate cost. Actually, I mean, I think that probably most

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Speaker 1: people listening to this show have have broadband internet access

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Speaker 1: and take it a little bit for granted at this

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Speaker 1: juncture because it's probably in your pocket and your desktop

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Speaker 1: at home and etcetera, etcetera. But that is that is

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Speaker 1: not what most of the world has at this point.

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Speaker 1: And if anyone I s P or or any number

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Speaker 1: of is sp s even could afford to build out

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Speaker 1: their infrastructure further, that would be a great boon to them. Right. So,

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Speaker 1: so obviously this is you know, like we said, it's

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Speaker 1: a pretty complicated issue that the concept of net neutrality

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Speaker 1: is incredibly simple, but the end, the the consequences of

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Speaker 1: what happens if net neutrality isn't a factor. Are pretty complex,

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Speaker 1: So there's you know, there are a lot of different

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Speaker 1: ways to approach this. I mean, there's the hope that

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Speaker 1: the market would support net neutrality simply on its own

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Speaker 1: because it's the most advantageous for everybody. That's that's sort

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Speaker 1: of the ideal, but it's not necessarily proven. Uh. Then

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Speaker 1: there's the fact that we've had some government agencies step

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Speaker 1: in and try and create some regulations and some rules

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Speaker 1: to codify the net neutrality so that it ends up

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Speaker 1: being de facto. That's that's the situation, right, that's gonna

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Speaker 1: be the status quo, and to go outside of that

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Speaker 1: would be breaking the law. But that itself is complicated,

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Speaker 1: so complicated in fact, that we're going to take a

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Speaker 1: quick break right now to thank our sponsor. Alright, So,

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Speaker 1: like we said, there are there's a in the United States,

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Speaker 1: we've actually had some government regulations step in and recently

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Speaker 1: it was overturned, which is a big thing in the news.

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Speaker 1: But to start off, we need to talk about the

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Speaker 1: agency that tried to create actual legal rules to govern

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Speaker 1: net neutrality, and that is the Federal Communications Commission or

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Speaker 1: f c C. Now, their their job is to regulate

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Speaker 1: interstate and international communications by radio, television, wire, satellite, and cable.

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Speaker 1: So some of the FCC's duties have gotten a little

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Speaker 1: cloudy because those definitions aren't as clear cut as they

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Speaker 1: used to be. Yeah, when the FCC was created, the

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Speaker 1: Internet didn't exist, So what to do with all of

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Speaker 1: this new fangled stuff has been certainly in question many

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Speaker 1: times over the past few decades, and early on the

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Speaker 1: Internet's life, there was a fear that putting it under

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Speaker 1: the mantle of the f c C would stifle its

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Speaker 1: ability to grow. And you know, that was one of

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Speaker 1: those real concerns, was the idea that you know, you

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Speaker 1: could kill this before it could be anything by putting

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Speaker 1: in too much oversight and regulation. So there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of hesitancy on the part of the government to step

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Speaker 1: in and really, you know, get involved in this. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, if you if you look at the history

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Speaker 1: of f c C getting involved with with net neutrality,

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Speaker 1: it's relatively recent. I mean keep in mind that the

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Speaker 1: Internet and the Worldwide Web even it's been around for

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Speaker 1: a few decades now, but it wasn't until two thousand

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Speaker 1: five that FCC really gotten of the net neutrality well

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Speaker 1: to well to back up just a little bit, I

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Speaker 1: did want to put in that the FCC defines broadband

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Speaker 1: providers as being different from other telecommunication systems, and that

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Speaker 1: was laid out back in with the Federal Talngue Communications

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Speaker 1: Act of Yeah. And then the thing to remember is

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Speaker 1: that broadband providers are in information services, right, which is

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Speaker 1: different from the telecommunication services, which was considered more of

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Speaker 1: the actual networks that allow people to uh to make

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Speaker 1: calls or whatever whatever those systems happened to be that

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Speaker 1: the FEC looks over. So that's important because that that

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Speaker 1: distinction ends up being the very key to the to

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Speaker 1: the arguments that we're seeing come to light right now, right,

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Speaker 1: And this this distinction was upheld in a two five

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court decision of the National Cable and Telecommunication Association

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Speaker 1: versus Brand X Internet Services. This will come back in

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Speaker 1: a moment. But um, other things that happened in two five, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's when the FCC created the Open Internet Regulations, also

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Speaker 1: known as net neutrality. And these were rules that were

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Speaker 1: announced in two thousand five and included that well, they

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Speaker 1: said essentially that consumers are entitled to certain rights which

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Speaker 1: include access to the lawful Internet content of their choice,

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Speaker 1: So clearly anything that's against the law, things that violate

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Speaker 1: copyright for example, or have illicit material in them, they

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Speaker 1: are not protected. Also the ability to run applications and

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Speaker 1: services of their choice, so again internet connected services, in

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Speaker 1: other words, not limiting it just to using a browser

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Speaker 1: to look at a website, but all things connected to

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Speaker 1: the Internet, including things like email, etcetera. Then also the

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Speaker 1: ability to connect the types of devices of their choice

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Speaker 1: to the network, assuming those devices are legal and aren't

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Speaker 1: designed to hurt the network, which is great. This is

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Speaker 1: saying that your internet service provider would not be allowed to, uh,

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Speaker 1: say yes, you can completely hook up your your laptop

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Speaker 1: to the cable modem, but we're not going to allow

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Speaker 1: any mobile devices to hook up to WiFi rite or

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Speaker 1: to say, um, yes you can hook up your Mac,

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Speaker 1: but you cannot hook up your PC. Yeah, that would

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Speaker 1: be That would be another great example. So this rule

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Speaker 1: would essentially say no, it has to be agnostic towards

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Speaker 1: all platforms that are capable of connecting to your network,

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Speaker 1: assuming that they're not designed to hurt it or be

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Speaker 1: you know, or that there they themselves are illegal, and

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Speaker 1: then also said that uh, customers are entitled to access

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Speaker 1: to competing services among networks and content providers. Uh, well,

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Speaker 1: there's a little I mean, like I said, in certain

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Speaker 1: areas in the United States, internet service providers operate at

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Speaker 1: an effective monopoly, so that one is probably the weakest

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Speaker 1: among those four. Uh. At any rate, those were kind

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Speaker 1: of the proposed rules, but it wasn't like it was

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Speaker 1: again a formal thing. This was uh, you know, sort

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Speaker 1: of what they were saying, this is what we want

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Speaker 1: to protect, right right. Nonetheless, people started kind of possing

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Speaker 1: up on on both sides of net neutrality. Um, hands

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Speaker 1: off dot org was in favor of the Internet service

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Speaker 1: providers and Save the Internet dot Com was in favor

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Speaker 1: of net neutrality, and both were saying that they were

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Speaker 1: trying to save the Internet, and it was a little

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Speaker 1: bit confusing. Yeah. Um so on October twenty two, two

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Speaker 1: thousand nine, so this is after the original text Off

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Speaker 1: net Neutrality episode went out, the FCC saw out public

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Speaker 1: input on drafting formal rules that would guard the Internet's

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Speaker 1: neutral status, and they adopted the Open Internet R and

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Speaker 1: O on November two thousand eleven. And those rules are

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Speaker 1: actually a little odd in that not everyone is treated

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Speaker 1: the same way, the wireless providers were given a slightly

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Speaker 1: um looser leash in a way, because wireless at that

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Speaker 1: time was starting to was just starting to take off,

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Speaker 1: whereas the wired broadband services had been around for us.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, things like UH three G four g

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Speaker 1: UM and and other wireless UH standards and protocols were

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Speaker 1: relatively young, and so the idea was that we don't

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Speaker 1: again same sort of idea that was around earlier, saying

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Speaker 1: we don't want to overregulate a young industry and thus

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Speaker 1: UH end up inhibiting its ability to blossom. So the

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Speaker 1: wireless ones have a little bit there. The restrictions aren't

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Speaker 1: quite as um tight as the wired ones. So then

430
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 1: you know, everything was great, right, I mean, everyone just

431
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: said these are fantastic rules, and I absolutely agree with

432
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,439
Speaker 1: everything you say, and the world is a better place

433
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: everyone except the internet service providers. Yeah yeah, okay, So

434
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 1: it didn't take very long before these rules were challenged,

435
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: um like officially in court. Yeah, Verizon Communications stepped up

436
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,360
Speaker 1: to the plate and challenged these rules, and they said

437
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: that the FCC doesn't have the authority to make such

438
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 1: regulations and that Congress had never given the FCC any

439
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: authority to make such regulations. Therefore these rules are moot it.

440
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 1: You don't have the authority to make the rules. Therefore

441
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: the rules don't exist. Yeah, and trying to make them

442
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 1: is illegal. And your face is downb Yeah, that was

443
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 1: pretty much I think was actually in the deposition was

444
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: your dumb face was in there somewhere. They used legal ease,

445
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: but the intent, we think is there um at any rate,

446
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: this this one through the courts for a good long

447
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: while because I mean, you know so, so we just

448
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 1: we just said that that was late Yeah, and it's

449
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: early February when we record this, and uh so it

450
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: hasn't been that long since this decision was handled handed down.

451
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 1: It was the Court of Appeals for the d C

452
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 1: Circuit which ruled two to one that the FCC does

453
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,360
Speaker 1: in fact have the authority to regulate broadband and wireless

454
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: service providers. That against Verizon Communications, they said that the

455
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: FEC didn't have that authority. This court said, no, they've

456
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 1: got the authority. But those rules of the open Internet

457
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: that the f CC came up with, we're based upon

458
00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: a flawed foundation and therefore are not valid. So it's

459
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: not that the FCC doesn't have the authority. It's just

460
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 1: that the justifications they used to build their rules, they

461
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 1: don't they don't exist, right, right that they were saying

462
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: that because the f c C has has previously put

463
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: out that broadband service providers are not to be treated

464
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 1: like telecommunications providers, that rules for telecommunications providers cannot be

465
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: applied to broadband service providers. Yeah, this is where that

466
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: definition comes back to bite us, right because that definition

467
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: where we say that broadband providers are information services, not

468
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 1: common carriers, then that's where that's where it all breaks down.

469
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: Because the rules that the FCC had had created were

470
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: for common carriers. It was based on the rules for

471
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: common carriers. And if if it's if you know, it's

472
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 1: saying like, you can't treat an orange like an apple

473
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 1: because an orange is not an apple. So just because

474
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 1: you have rules for apples doesn't mean those rules apply

475
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 1: to oranges. That's essentially what we're saying here. So I know,

476
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 1: one thing that I wanted to clear up was what

477
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: the heck is a common carrier? What what does this

478
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 1: common carrier thing mean? And it actually dates back to

479
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 1: a concept called just common carriage, and common carriage was

480
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 1: that if you have a business that uses some form

481
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: of a fundamental service that that that uses public rights

482
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,959
Speaker 1: of way, you cannot discriminate with that service. You have

483
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: to you have to allow open access to every everybody. Right.

484
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 1: So here's an example that I read that I thought

485
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: was a good one. Let's say that you operate a ferry.

486
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: So you've got to You've got a little boat that

487
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: you ferry people across a river. But that river is

488
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: a public right of way. You can't deny anyone's service

489
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 1: on that ferry because you're using a public right of way.

490
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: And so telecommunications, those networks are considered a public right

491
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: of way, and it was really important in those early

492
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: days because it meant that if you were one telephone

493
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: company and you're competing against another telephone company, you could

494
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: not deny your customers the ability to call the other

495
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,040
Speaker 1: companies customers. All right. We talked about this some in

496
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: our A T and T Mini series. Yeah, we did exactly. Yeah,

497
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,199
Speaker 1: it was one of those things where it was an

498
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 1: important decision. It meant that it leveled that playing field,

499
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: so you had options on what company you wanted you

500
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 1: wanted to use, depending upon how many were available in

501
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 1: your region. And you didn't have to worry that the

502
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 1: option you chose would limit your ability to make phone calls. Well,

503
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: those rules don't apply to broadband service providers because they don't.

504
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: They aren't under the definition of common carriage or common carrier.

505
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: And and this is just a legal distinction. It's it

506
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that the FCC couldn't make up rules that

507
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: do apply to broadband providers, right And and in fact,

508
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: this decision upheld some of the FCC's powers over the

509
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: Internet at large, which we'll get into in just a moment.

510
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: But but I did I did want to say that this,

511
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: this entire court decision was not quite what either side

512
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: was really hoping to hear. I mean, it was clearly

513
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: on the side of the I s p s, But

514
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: both sides are kind of looking at this and figuring

515
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 1: out whether and how exactly to further appeal the decision, right,

516
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: because you've got the FCC, which still apparently has this

517
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: power to regulate broadband providers, they just have to figure

518
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: out a different way of going about it. Then you've

519
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: got the broadband providers who are told that these net

520
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 1: neutrality rules don't apply to them because they were based

521
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: on a faulty foundation. But you know, neither side really

522
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: is ready to move forward, because if if the broadband

523
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: providers decide to just throw net neutrality to the wind

524
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: and the FCC comes up with new rules, then they're

525
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: going to have to reverse everything anyway. And meanwhile, the

526
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 1: FCC doesn't really know if they like, they know that

527
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: the providers are going to challenge the FCC's authority again.

528
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, and in some cases a few Internet service

529
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: providers have have prior regulations that are applying this to them, right.

530
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: You found out a little about Comcast. It was I

531
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: did not know this. I I was looking through one

532
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: of the articles about net neutrality and about this decision

533
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: in particular that that overturns net neutrality, the formal net

534
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: neutrality rules, and it stated that in a previous decision

535
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: against Comcast, which had challenged the FCC as well UH,

536
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: Comcast had agreed that it would abide by the rules

537
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: of net neutrality for seven years. Actually, and I don't

538
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: even know when the date was of this particular court case,

539
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: but I know I know it was not seven years ago,

540
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: but Comcast agreed that they would abide by the rules

541
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: of net neutrality for seven years. Even if those rules

542
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: were to change or be thrown out entirely, they would

543
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: still abide by them. So uh so, that means that

544
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: Comcast at least will be playing fair by the by

545
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: the standards of net neutrality for as long as those

546
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: seven years are still in effect. So if, even if,

547
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: even if net neutrality is completely a thing of the

548
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: past for a while, anyone who's got Comcast service will

549
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: still be experiencing it at least, you know, there's they

550
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: should be like, assuming that everyone's behaving themselves. You know.

551
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: So maybe sometime I'll write up a blog post once

552
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: I figure out all the details of that, because I thought, wow,

553
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: that's kind of interesting, certainly an interesting agreement to say

554
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: I will abide by these rules even if the rules

555
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: cease to exist. It almost seems chivalrous. Um. So we're

556
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: recording this on February five, and in the interest of

557
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: full disclosure, because on February three, a group of lawmakers

558
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: introduced bills both in the United States Senate and in

559
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: the House of Representatives in an effort to restore the

560
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: rules of net neutrality as they had been created by

561
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: the FCC. Essentially, this is a stop gap. It's not

562
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: meant to be a permanent thing. But if this, this

563
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: legislation was signed into law, then you would have those

564
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: rules in effect until the f CC was able to

565
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: draft something permanent to catch up and and make actual rules. Right. Yeah,

566
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: this this one's being called the Open Internet Preservation Act. Yeah,

567
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: so obviously open Internet preservation meaning that they want to

568
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: preserve those rules that have been made before. So if

569
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: this gets passed, um, then we would see those rules

570
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: remain in effect until the FCC came up with something

571
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: more permanent. Uh so, what what are the what are

572
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: the odds that's going to be passed? Well, it's bound

573
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: to face some opposition in the House of Representatives. You see,

574
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 1: the people who have proposed this bill are Democrats. The

575
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: House of Representatives is controlled by the Grand Old Party,

576
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: the GOP. Uh and historically Democrats and the GOP tend

577
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: to vote against one another usually actually sometimes sometimes you

578
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: can see people reach across the aisle. Certainly, certainly, and

579
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: a lot of the people that I have a lot

580
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: of the Congress people who I've seen opposing net neutrality

581
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: have been on the Republican side. Yeah, yeah, and uh,

582
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: and you can draw your own conclusions about that I

583
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: will leave all commentary aside for the yes, it's hurting me.

584
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: But then uh, in the Senate, it's expected to pass

585
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: because the Senate happens to be controlled by the Acratic

586
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,479
Speaker 1: party right now. So so it may be that we

587
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: see one bill passed in the Senate, one bill fail

588
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: in the House of Representatives, and the the bill in

589
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: the Senate would go to the House, and we have

590
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: to see what would happened there. But whatever happens with that,

591
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: proponents of net neutrality seem overall hopeful right now, and

592
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: for for a couple of different reasons. And that's first because,

593
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: like I said earlier, that the court's ruling upheld the

594
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: f SEC's power to regulate the Internet at large um

595
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: that was set forth specifically under section seven h six

596
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: of the Communications Act. And some people are even saying

597
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: that the decision could have granted the FEC power that

598
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: the Communications Act didn't really intend. D C Circuit Judge

599
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: Lawrence Silberman, said he was one of the judges involved

600
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: in this recent decision, said in his dissent that the

601
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: ruling gave and I quote the FCC virtually unlimited power

602
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: to regulate the Internet in the future, um, which I

603
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: think is a little bit of an overstatement. Um. But

604
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: but you know, there are certainly some fringe theorists who

605
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: are who are passing on a little bit of doom

606
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: and gloom about all of this, But it's also being

607
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:10,479
Speaker 1: talked about by net neutrality proponents as a promising it's promising, right,

608
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think the point when the FCC reached

609
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: out its gloved hand in the middle of the court

610
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: proceedings and said join me now, and you will be

611
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: more powerful than you could possibly imagine that people got

612
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: a little weird feeling about it. But I can't imagine

613
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: why nothing but sunshine and puppies after that. Uh No,

614
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: But seriously, you know it's one of the dark side.

615
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: We have puppies, puppies and chocolate, but not chocolate puppies. Alright,

616
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: so except for chocolate labs, which totally different thing. No,

617
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,479
Speaker 1: now I've gotten off on the rails. It's clearly too

618
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: warm in this room. Let's talk about some of the

619
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: the quotes you've grabbed here. I found them really interesting. Yeah.

620
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: These were actually from the House Stuff Works article on

621
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: on how net neutrality works, which was published way back

622
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: in two thousand six. So these are so these are

623
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: two thousand five, two thousand six Eric quotes, but I

624
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: think that they're still extremely elevant. Yeah. The first one

625
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: is from the Economist and and gives a interesting perspective

626
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: on the whole thing. Uh. The writer said, blocking your

627
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: interfering with existing traffic on the Internet is unacceptable, but

628
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: if operators want to build fast lands alongside it, they

629
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: should be allowed to. So in other words, uh, don't throttle,

630
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: but if you can build faster stuff, two things go

631
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: on ahead. I mean, you know, that's one way of

632
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 1: looking at it. Letting letting people make money, they're essentially saying,

633
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: is not a bad thing. It's kind of going back

634
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: to that tiered approach I talked about earlier. And in fact,

635
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: I mean we see I s p s offer tears

636
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 1: right now where you can get a certain guarantee. Yeah,

637
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: you get a guarantee of a certain bandwidth, like a

638
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: certain download speed. Uh. And if you pay more than

639
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: you can get more. Uh. It may very well be that,

640
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: like I said, we might one day see a tier

641
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 1: where it's a it's a lower price, but you trade

642
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: off with access to certain things, or you pay the

643
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: higher price and you you get access to everything that could

644
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,439
Speaker 1: be an outcome. Um. My second quote is from John

645
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: Hannibals Stokes who is writing for Ours Technica, and this

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00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: is a long one, so stick with me, folks. He

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00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: was saying the simple truth that you can't have a

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00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: free market without government regulation should be so obvious that

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00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 1: it hurts because markets rest on the rule of the law.

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00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: The relationship between markets and regulation is not a binary opposition,

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00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: but a continuum. Anarchy at one extreme and overregulation at

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00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: the other are both emtithetical to free markets. You have

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00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: to have rules to play by because the rules guarantee

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00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: that the game is fair. An excellent quote. Yeah, I agree.

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00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: I mean again, you have to have rules. The trick

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00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: is to make sure that the rules don't break the game, right,

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00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: which is that that's the fear. I mean, it's that's tricksy. Yeah,

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00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: especially when you talk about technology, which tends to outpace

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00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: law by about ten years at least. So you know,

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Speaker 1: I understand why this is a complicated issue. I mean,

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00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: people have a lot of dake in this and uh,

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00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: and I understand why there there's opposition. I'm still very

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00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: much for net neutrality personally. I like the idea that

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00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: if I if I have a certain i SP that

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00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: I'm going to have just the same experience going to

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00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: one of their sites as one of their competitors. Um,

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00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: because I mean, I'm still paying that i s P

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00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: for that service, so I feel like I should have

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00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: access to everything that's out there. I don't want there

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00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: to be a fractured Internet where Lauren's Internet is different

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00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 1: from my Internet, and then I can't see the awesome

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00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: cat video that she's posted because it's not on the

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00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 1: service that my Internet service provider uses. And that right

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00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: there is the best description of a dystopia that I've

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00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 1: ever heard, you know, the inaccessibility of cat videos madness.

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00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 1: There would be riots in the streets, alright. So the

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00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: cats and dogs living together, no, or if they did,

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00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 1: we wouldn't know about it. At least anyone not using

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00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: that i SP wouldn't know about it. Don't let that

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00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: world come to be all right. So that wraps up

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00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: this episode of tech stuff. Our update on net neutrality,

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00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: what it is, what the arguments are, why it was

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00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 1: in the news. Guys. If you have any questions about

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00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: net neutrality or you have suggestions for other topics, you

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00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 1: should contact us. Let us know what you think and uh.

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00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 1: That email address is tech Stuff at Discovery dot com.

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00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 1: You can also send us a message on Facebook or

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00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: on the twitters, or even go to tumbler. You can

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00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 1: look for us. We have tech Stuff hs W as

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00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 1: our handle. We'd love to hear from you, and we

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00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: will talk to you again really soon. For more on

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00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics, does it has staff

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00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: works dot com