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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie missing one of her neighbors,

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Speaker 2: joins us to tell us his recollection of what went

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Speaker 2: down that night and of his recollection of Missus Guthrie herself.

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Speaker 2: Also tonight mysterious ridges scene in the front of Nancy

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Speaker 2: Guthrie's yard, What if anything do they mean and were

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Speaker 2: they preserved this as a careful look at the porch

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Speaker 2: guy video? Does it reveal headlights over his shoulder? And

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Speaker 2: tonight was a luck pick or a luck pick gun

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Speaker 2: used to penetrate Nancy Guthrie's home and can we analyze

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Speaker 2: that and use it as evidence? Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for

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Speaker 2: being with us. The FEDS are now trying to question

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Speaker 2: work crews on a construction site.

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Speaker 3: People just don't go in there and randomly dump stuff.

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Speaker 3: They do have the thing broken up into grids. You

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Speaker 3: have equipment that runs over the stuff to kind of

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Speaker 3: pack it down, and that creates an absolute nightmare for

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Speaker 3: investigators when they go out there to begin to search.

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Speaker 2: I'm very anxious to get to the ridges that were

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Speaker 2: seen in front of Nancy Guthries home. Can I just

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Speaker 2: see that very quickly? Please control room as well as

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Speaker 2: what's revealed by a careful look at the porch guy

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Speaker 2: lights possibly headlights over his shoulder. But first I want

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Speaker 2: to go to a special guest joining us, a neighbor

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Speaker 2: of Nancy Guthries. It's Jeff Lemie who woke up that

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Speaker 2: night in the early morning hours and he very often

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Speaker 2: passes Missus Guthrie on their neighborhoods strolls. Mister, let me

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with.

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Speaker 4: Us, for sure, for sure glad to be here.

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Speaker 2: I you know what, I'm so glad you said that,

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Speaker 2: because in my world of investigating and prosecuting nothing but

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Speaker 2: violent felonies for so many years, you wouldn't believe it.

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Speaker 2: Mister le me of how many people quote don't want

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Speaker 2: to get involved, they don't come forward, they don't say anything,

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Speaker 2: and they feel okay with that. I will never understand it. First,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure the FBI has quizzed you extensively, but I

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Speaker 2: just want to hear at the beginning of your encounters

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Speaker 2: with Missus Guthrie, when you would both be out strolling

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Speaker 2: the neighborhood.

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Speaker 4: We would see her when we were walking our dogs.

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Speaker 4: She had a dog at one time, all so and

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Speaker 4: greet her. She was just a person who lived here,

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Speaker 4: a pleasant, wonderful neighbor. And we're so saddened. Of course,

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Speaker 4: saddened isn't even the word A heartbroken about what's happened.

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Speaker 2: I guess you're also fed up with the ghules showing

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Speaker 2: up in your neighborhood in hotpants and stripper sas to

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Speaker 2: take photos in front of Missus Guthrie's home. It's sick.

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Speaker 2: But before I go off on a tangent that gets

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Speaker 2: me nowhere and improves nothing that night, Jeff let me

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Speaker 2: that night what happened.

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Speaker 4: Well, preceding the event, there were some evenings where our

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Speaker 4: dogs woke up, which was highly unusual. We don't know

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Speaker 4: if there's a correlation. I know the FBI and the

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Speaker 4: investigators have asked for cameras and camera footage. All the

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Speaker 4: neighbors have shared camera footage and any recollection they have.

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Speaker 4: But the next day we were surprise when there were

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Speaker 4: helicopters above flying through the neighborhood. A large response of

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Speaker 4: Sheriff's Department, a volunteer crew of community members who do

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Speaker 4: rescue in the mountains of hikers who came and scoured

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Speaker 4: the neighborhood, and initially we were wondering what was going on,

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Speaker 4: and then we found out it was our neighbor, which

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Speaker 4: obviously is horrible.

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Speaker 2: You stated that you live four homes down from Missus Guthrie.

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Speaker 2: Is that correct?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Okay, Now your dogs often ases mine want to go

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Speaker 2: out in the middle of the night Dee's bathroom that night,

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Speaker 2: did your dog go out?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that was where Actually I sort of one of

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Speaker 4: our dogs I have the rows in the morning, is

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Speaker 4: a deep sleeper. There were some nights in question where

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Speaker 4: the investigators have asked us about certain evenings and if

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Speaker 4: we've seen anything unusual and once it could be coincidence,

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Speaker 4: it could be nothing. I'm not an investigator, I'm a

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Speaker 4: lay person. But the dogs did rouse and I took

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Speaker 4: them out. There's an image of me on camera. I

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Speaker 4: did heart nothing or saw nothing. But you know, animals

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Speaker 4: can be especially dogs can be hyper sensitive, and we

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Speaker 4: don't know if there's a correlation. We've shared it and

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Speaker 4: whether it helps with timeline or in any way, we

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Speaker 4: hope it is of some value.

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Speaker 2: What time was that, Jeff le me, gosh.

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Speaker 4: It was I'm working from memory. It may have been

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Speaker 4: a little bit past one am.

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Speaker 2: You know, Jeff, let me you really hit the nail

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Speaker 2: on the head, because after everything calms down at night

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Speaker 2: and everything settles and the kitchen is clean, We'll be

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Speaker 2: sitting there, you know, watching something on TV maybe and

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Speaker 2: our dog fat Boy will go insane and then we

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Speaker 2: find out, like two minutes later, a delivery was made

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Speaker 2: at the front porch, or somebody then opens the back door.

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Speaker 2: Maybe one of the granny nannies is coming in or out,

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Speaker 2: but he hears it or smells it long before we do.

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Speaker 2: So I want you to tell me again. And the

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Speaker 2: reason I'm so interested, Jeff, is because I personally have

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Speaker 2: investigated cases where the dog was the initial trigger that

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Speaker 2: raised the first alarm, and there have been many in

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Speaker 2: real life. This is what everybody knows, so I use

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Speaker 2: it a lot. The oj Simpson case, the neighbors heard

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Speaker 2: the dog akda issue a as they say, plaintive well

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Speaker 2: that they had never heard the dog do before. And

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Speaker 2: this was around the time Simpson when murdering Nicole and Ron,

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Speaker 2: So the dog was the first alarm. Now I'm very curious.

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Speaker 2: Tell me exactly what happened.

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Speaker 4: Sure, you know, as I've mentioned, our dogs are usually

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Speaker 4: sound slavers full confession. When the dog woke me up

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Speaker 4: to say I've got to go outside, I was grudgingly

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Speaker 4: accommodating and took the dog out to our little courtyard

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Speaker 4: in the back of our house. And it was unusual,

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Speaker 4: and it seldom happens. And we've gone back to the

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Speaker 4: other dates that we've been asked about to see if

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Speaker 4: there's a correlation, and as mentioned, shared this information. But animals,

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Speaker 4: especially dogs, can be so sensitive and kind of work

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Speaker 4: on a different realm with smell, hearing, etc. And we

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Speaker 4: hope it's of some help. We don't know.

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Speaker 2: Now you said something was unusual. What was unusual?

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Speaker 4: Oh, just waking me up at that hour, you know

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Speaker 4: that would be you know once again that that's what

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Speaker 4: was atypical. It actually, uh, you know, it hasn't happened

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Speaker 4: since you know, they are usually sound sleepers, take them

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Speaker 4: out before heading to bed, and taking them out first

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Speaker 4: thing in the morning, So this was kind of unusual.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if they've heard something, smelt something, sense

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Speaker 4: something in some way, So we've obviously provided that information

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Speaker 4: and I don't know if it's of help, but we

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Speaker 4: hope it is.

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Speaker 2: Jeff le me, let me throw this on you. As

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Speaker 2: I've told me you jury, there is no coincidence in

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Speaker 2: criminal law. There's just not coincidences happen in life, but

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Speaker 2: in my experience not in criminal case as much less

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Speaker 2: a kidnap or worse a murder. So at first I

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Speaker 2: didn't understand that this was unusual. I thought your dogs

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Speaker 2: wanted to go out in the middle of the night

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Speaker 2: all the time, like mine does. I think I was projecting,

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Speaker 2: which is never a good thing for a trial lawyer

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Speaker 2: to do. So this is becoming more important in my

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Speaker 2: mind because your dogs don't normally do that. I would

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Speaker 2: like to also share with you that the best witness

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Speaker 2: I ever put on the stand, and I practiced for

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Speaker 2: fourteen years as a fed and a violent fellow and prosecutor,

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Speaker 2: was a dog. Best witness I ever put on the

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Speaker 2: stand that said, Now, this is becoming more significant because

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Speaker 2: your dogs don't normally get up in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the night. I thought that they did because I was projecting.

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Speaker 2: But that night, the night Missus Guthrie is kidnapped, your

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Speaker 2: dogs get up and want to go outside. Is that correct?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? And also some of the other evenings that we've

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Speaker 4: been questioned about. I'm working from memory again. I believe

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Speaker 4: January eleventh was another date that was in question. So

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Speaker 4: we had this activity at that time, and you know

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Speaker 4: human nature, we just filed it away and didn't really

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Speaker 4: think about this until we were asked to review our

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Speaker 4: video and then had this recollection and saw this correlation,

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Speaker 4: which was very unusual.

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Speaker 2: So did you review your video and what if anything?

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Speaker 2: Did you say?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I once not only reviewed it but provided it

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Speaker 4: to Shaff's department and FBI, and once again, every neighbor

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Speaker 4: has done this. I mean, there's been a robust, wholehearted

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Speaker 4: support from everyone in this community for this investigation and

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Speaker 4: have provided that data points, you know, one thing they

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Speaker 4: can see though perhaps once again I don't know, it

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Speaker 4: could help with timeframe. If in fact it could, that

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Speaker 4: would be a wonderful thing if it provides any value.

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Speaker 4: If there was someone.

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Speaker 2: Did you see anything on the video from Janny eleven?

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Speaker 4: Just the dogs waking us up with it the way

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Speaker 4: our cameras are situated, and this has been I think

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Speaker 4: a frustration is everyone seems to have a ring or

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Speaker 4: some sort of system, but with the size of the

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Speaker 4: lots and where the cameras are situated. They capture your

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Speaker 4: home and entrance points, but they do not capture much

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Speaker 4: beyond that. There's heavy dense brush here, cactus, polaverides, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: So part of the challenge has been you can see

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Speaker 4: beautiful views of our courtyard, front door, garage, et cetera,

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Speaker 4: but not much beyond.

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Speaker 1: That crime stores with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Let me understand, so, Jeff, And of course I would

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Speaker 2: have this all nailed down if I were putting you

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Speaker 2: on the stand. And forgive me if I keep asking

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Speaker 2: the same question over and over. But on January eleven,

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Speaker 2: you see nothing out in the yard, as you've just

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Speaker 2: explained where your cameras are trained. But having reviewed January

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Speaker 2: eleventh video at the request of the FBI, you realize

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Speaker 2: that on January eleven and January thirty one, both nights,

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Speaker 2: your dog's uncharacteristically wanted to go outside. Yes, and that

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Speaker 2: was very atypical. Yes, when they went outside, did they

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Speaker 2: You said they went to the back or the front.

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Speaker 4: It's the rear of our home where we have a

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Speaker 4: courtyard that a butts are back.

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Speaker 2: Okay, got it? Rear of home is there a cut,

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Speaker 2: a shortcut the people it is that way to get

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Speaker 2: toward Nancy Guthrie's home or could they? Could they?

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Speaker 4: It is fairly dense. We can see her home, the

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Speaker 4: top of her home from the rear of our house.

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Speaker 2: And.

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Speaker 4: It is I'm disguestimating maybe one hundred and fifty yards away,

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Speaker 4: but it is very dense cactus rock, dense brush. From

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Speaker 4: my layperson's perspective, it would be a challenge.

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Speaker 2: Another or someone had mapped it out ahead of time.

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Speaker 4: There are what, oh, there are there's an abudding cul

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Speaker 4: de sac towards the rear. There's a service road that

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Speaker 4: connects to that you'll see. Actually is wonderful the graphics

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Speaker 4: you're putting up where you can see how someone could

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Speaker 4: walk perhaps through the service yard to a cul de sac,

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Speaker 4: perhaps around at.

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Speaker 2: About there's a service out behind your home that leads

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Speaker 2: to a cul de sac that leads to Nancy's home.

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Speaker 2: Did you is that what.

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Speaker 4: I'm alongsideer home, along the side her home, where you

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Speaker 4: would have to physically cut through someone's property but then

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Speaker 4: could lead to a cul de sac. My understanding was

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Speaker 4: years ago school kids would use it as a kind

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Speaker 4: of a way to get grab the school bus and

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Speaker 4: they would cut through that area. That's my understanding. But

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Speaker 4: once again, directly from our home to Nancy's house, it

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Speaker 4: would be it would be it would be rough brush now,

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Speaker 4: especially in the dark.

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Speaker 2: So wait, I'm curious you just said that. Guys that

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Speaker 2: video were showing you earlier. The aerial video was from

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Speaker 2: our friends at twelve Knews. I want to go back

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Speaker 2: to the photo. I want to understand where Jeff Letmey

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Speaker 2: lives on this picture. But you stated that for a

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Speaker 2: long time, school children would use a cut through the back,

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Speaker 2: through the scrub, through the brush, down the service road

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Speaker 2: maybe to get to the school bus instead of going

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Speaker 2: on the street. Is that correct?

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Speaker 4: Sure? My understanding, this is what neighbors have told us,

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Speaker 4: is people would use a service road, sir, cut through

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Speaker 4: someone's property very slightly, and then code to a cul

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Speaker 4: de sac that abuts the back of our yard, but

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Speaker 4: not the ball.

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Speaker 2: And that would get you closer to Nancy's home.

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Speaker 4: Perhaps someone could take a different route to her home

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Speaker 4: through that, through that, through that, through that avenue.

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Speaker 2: Got it. Now, when your dogs go out at night, Jeff,

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Speaker 2: do they lead you to the back or to the front,

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Speaker 2: or do you lead them. But my dog wakes up.

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Speaker 2: He sleeps right beside me in his own little bed

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Speaker 2: by the bed. I have to take him to a

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Speaker 2: certain door. I lead him to a certain door because

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Speaker 2: I know I can get him in more quickly if

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Speaker 2: I go out that door. And it can be any

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Speaker 2: time of the day or night. So did you lead

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Speaker 2: the dog to the back or did the dog lead you?

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Speaker 4: Sure? So it's a courtyard that it butts the bedroom.

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Speaker 4: That's pop the door open, take the dog out, and

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Speaker 4: you know it's right there. So it's the most natural

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Speaker 4: point to be. And that's where we always take the dogs.

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Speaker 2: When your dog went out on Jan. Thirty one and

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Speaker 2: Jan eleven, what did the dog do to continue marking?

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Speaker 4: No barking? But I saw on video the dog sort

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Speaker 4: of looking off to the distance and sort of very

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Speaker 4: focused for a moment. It was fascinating actually, and then

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Speaker 4: moving on to moving on. You know, now, once again

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Speaker 4: in my days, my fuge state passed one am. I

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Speaker 4: did not take note of any of this at the

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Speaker 4: time and took the dog back in and went back

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Speaker 4: to bed, you know, and once again we don't know

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Speaker 4: what was occurring, but it's says something information to provide

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Speaker 4: of some value we hope to the investigation.

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Speaker 2: Jeff, can you look at that overhead and tell me

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Speaker 2: which home is yours as it relates to missus Dthries.

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Speaker 4: So we would be if you leave Nancy's house, take

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Speaker 4: a right and the immediate next right. We're on that

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Speaker 4: street at the end of the street, so if you count.

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Speaker 2: So hold on, I'm trying to digest this. We see

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Speaker 2: the red marker on the screen on her home. So

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Speaker 2: you go forward, which in this picture would be up.

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Speaker 2: You'd make an immediate right, and then your first right

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Speaker 2: and go one, two, three, four houses away.

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Speaker 5: One.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, perfect perfectly.

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Speaker 2: Said, got it. It's kind of a little where with

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Speaker 2: the driveway to its left. I see, I see actually

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Speaker 2: what would be the cut through? See it behind your heart?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's alongside our homes. It's a utility road

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Speaker 4: for the power company.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm, now that I'm talking, do you I see

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Speaker 2: that now, Jeff. Question, we keep hearing about a vacant home.

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Speaker 2: Where is the vacant home as it relates to missus

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Speaker 2: Guthrie's home, So.

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Speaker 4: That is categ corner to our house across the street.

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Speaker 2: The one with the beige gray roof that one kind

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Speaker 2: of to the left of your home a little bit. Yes,

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Speaker 2: uh huh, that's the vacant home. Wow, that is right

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Speaker 2: around the corner from Missus Guthrie. I've been wondering, where's

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Speaker 2: the vacant home? Answer? Okay, what about construction? Where is

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Speaker 2: the construction that's happening in the neighborhood.

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Speaker 4: So that actually is if you're on Escalante and you

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Speaker 4: directly stare from Nancy's home up the street, that kind

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Speaker 4: of there's a there's a cul de sac above. If

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Speaker 4: on this on this camera view above her street, you'll

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Speaker 4: see a white roofed house at the very very top

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Speaker 4: of that cul de sac. That's where construction is occurring.

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Speaker 2: Mister la may do you recall any power outage either

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Speaker 2: on Jan. Thirty one or Jan eleven?

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Speaker 4: You know, this is once again all this information has

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Speaker 4: been provided to the authorities. Two of our cameras were

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Speaker 4: quote unquote offline during this time, which really surprised us.

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Speaker 4: I can't say, you know whether or not that was

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Speaker 4: a coincidence that the cameras were out and offline. I mean,

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Speaker 4: once again, that's for the investigators. They were, but they were.

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Speaker 2: How did you learnt that your cameras that How did

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Speaker 2: you learn that there were outages on eleven and thirty one.

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Speaker 4: We learned that when we were reviewing the data with

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Speaker 4: the investigators and saw, wow, this notation that there was

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Speaker 4: an offline camera to offline cameras.

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Speaker 2: Jeff, who first came to your home asking for information

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Speaker 2: in the FEDS.

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Speaker 4: FBI walked our yard and we actually had a conversation

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Speaker 4: about the rear yard and walked the scrubs, so to speak,

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Speaker 4: to see how inhospitable it was, and they put an

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Speaker 4: opportunity to assess that. But we've had multiple visits from both,

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Speaker 4: but the initial visit was from the Sheriff's department.

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Speaker 2: Jeff, did you ever notice an individual that didn't live

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Speaker 2: in your neighborhood the way another neighbor has, or did

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Speaker 2: you notice vehicle parked in the area for an extended

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Speaker 2: period of time?

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Speaker 4: We did notice a vehicle. My wife shared that information,

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Speaker 4: but it was a very dim recollection. The Saturday evening,

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Speaker 4: early evening, when walking the dogs, we noticed a car

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Speaker 4: parked on Escalante. We shared whatever data we had, but

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Speaker 4: we all do this. It's human nature. You see something,

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Speaker 4: but you want to be accurate in the details. You

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Speaker 4: provide and really couldn't provide much else, you know, It's

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Speaker 4: just something that we noticed.

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Speaker 2: I ever had really quickly for me, Jeff. We are

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Speaker 2: on Escalante, which is Missus Guthrie Street. Was the vehicle parked.

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Speaker 4: So if you continue past Nancy's home, there's a little

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Speaker 4: area where people when they walk their dogs in our

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Speaker 4: neighborhood might park. It's sort of a little area maybe

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Speaker 4: I'm going to estimate fifty yards down on the right

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Speaker 4: hand side, there's a little cut out with gravel where

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Speaker 4: people park their vehicles. And we noticed a car there,

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Speaker 4: and so we noticed a vehicle. But once again we

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Speaker 4: share that information. We did not notice anyone any individuals

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Speaker 4: walking around. I know other neighbors have.

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Speaker 2: Are you and or your neighbors afraid?

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Speaker 4: We're unsettled? Most of all, you've seen the yellow ribbons,

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Speaker 4: the angels on the pala Verde trees, the concern for

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Speaker 4: someone who lives in our neighborhood who a horrible thing

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Speaker 4: happened to, the concern for the family who are going

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Speaker 4: through a horrific, heart wrenching ordeal. Most of all, people

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Speaker 4: are concerned about the neighbor and it is unsettling that

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Speaker 4: something like this occurred.

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Speaker 2: Jeff let Me, neighbor of Nancy Geth speaking out in

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Speaker 2: an effort to help the search. Thank you, mister renee good,

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Speaker 2: thank you. Tonight, we are learning that there is another

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Speaker 2: line of investigation that centers around ridges in front of

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Speaker 2: Nancy Gufries' home. This particular one is from Susie debay

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Speaker 2: X straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville

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Speaker 2: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon

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Speaker 2: and star of a hit series podcast Body Bags at

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Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan, but more importantly, death investigator with over

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Speaker 2: ten thousand death scenes under his belt? What do you

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Speaker 2: make of the ridges? And can a cast be made

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Speaker 2: of that? We have learned the FBI may have failed

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Speaker 2: at getting a cast. I think I know why, but

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Speaker 2: I want your analysis. Let's see it again.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So as you're seeing these ridges, Nancy, you can

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Speaker 3: see the composition out here is to say, the very

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Speaker 3: least is uneven. And also this rock aggregate that's there

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Speaker 3: is going to create quite a problem if you want

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Speaker 3: to do a cast. But one thing that we can

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Speaker 3: draw from the so called ridges is the idea of

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Speaker 3: a wheelbase This is something that we use when we're

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Speaker 3: trying to assess tire tracks on motor vehicles. Now, obviously

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Speaker 3: this is not a motor vehicle. But if you begin

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Speaker 3: to think about something, say, for instance, like a wheelchair.

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Speaker 3: All right, you've got two parallel lines that are running

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Speaker 3: in one specific direction. As a matter of fact, you

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Speaker 3: take a look at it, it stays quite linear. It

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Speaker 3: doesn't curve, it doesn't stay off the center. Here the

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Speaker 3: idea with wheelbase, though, Nancy, is to to try to

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Speaker 3: assess what the distance is between the center mass of

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Speaker 3: where the actual wheels are making contact in those ruts.

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Speaker 3: Let's use the term ruts and because that's a term

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Speaker 3: that we would normally use. So with that information alone,

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Speaker 3: you can take that and you can begin to assess

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Speaker 3: what product out there would create these images or these

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Speaker 3: ruts that are being left behind that can be imaged.

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Speaker 3: Can you actually say that this originated from this particular item,

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Speaker 3: Probably not, but it can at least put you in

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Speaker 3: the ballpark. Now, I have to add this one comment here,

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Speaker 3: because of the level or lack thereof of security at

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Speaker 3: the scene, we don't necessarily know what left these behind

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Speaker 3: or who is more accurate, who left these behind. Could

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Speaker 3: it be a perpetrator that is removing Missus Guthrie from

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Speaker 3: the home, or could it actually be someone like, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, a crime scene person that's dragging a kit

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Speaker 3: behind them and those ruts could actually match up with that.

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Speaker 2: Could the tracks be from a wheelchair, from a wheelbarrow,

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Speaker 2: from some device used to move Missus Guthrie? And the

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Speaker 2: video we were showing you earlier, guys, is from our

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Speaker 2: friends at twelve New Years. The reason I'm talking to

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Speaker 2: you about this, Joe Scott, not that you're a wheelbarrow expert,

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Speaker 2: but you are a blood expert, and we know the

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Speaker 2: blood ends at a certain point and those tracks pick

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Speaker 2: up at that point. See what going Yeah, put in

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Speaker 2: a wheelchair?

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Speaker 3: Very compelling? Yeah, it actually is. Here's something else that

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00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 3: you might want to consider too. Do you have matching

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Speaker 3: sets or do you have two sets of these? Of

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Speaker 3: these ruts all right? If so, do they give an

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Speaker 3: indication that you have a set that perhaps was not

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Speaker 3: bearing weight before and then afterwards it is bearing weight?

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Speaker 3: And also going to the blood trail, is there is

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Speaker 3: there concurrence between where the blood trail ends and these

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Speaker 3: ruts pick up, because that's a fascinating question scientifically also,

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Speaker 3: and you you asked me a question just a second

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Speaker 3: ago about wheelchairs and wheelbarrows and this sort of thing,

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Speaker 3: and this I can tell you. Yeah, there's there's a

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Speaker 3: type of wheelbarrow out there that actually does have two wheels.

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Speaker 3: But the width of those of those tires on this

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Speaker 3: thing are rather robust. This is not what you're looking at.

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Speaker 3: You're looking at something that's very very narrow. And of course,

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00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 3: just like when we think about furrows in the neck

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Speaker 3: of somebody that has been asphyxiated, remember, the smaller the gauge,

421
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 3: the deeper the rut, or the deeper the furrow. Here,

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00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,959
Speaker 3: the more narrow nor more narrow the rut. You're going

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Speaker 3: to talk about something that has a very very tight

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Speaker 3: gauge on it that can actually go down into the surface.

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Speaker 3: The idea here is to try to understand was it

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00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 3: bearing weight at that particular time. But part of this

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Speaker 3: just seems rather cumbersome.

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Speaker 2: Hey, hey, just Scott, look at this again. One I've

429
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Speaker 2: been asked, do these ridges suggest she was dragged? I

430
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Speaker 2: don't see that. I see actual wheel marks. But what

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Speaker 2: about a wagon?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I suppose a wagon. But again, okay, this is

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Speaker 3: what you would need to do. There are garden wagons

434
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 3: out there that people utilize. I don't know what kind

435
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 3: of utility it would have. And also, again you would

436
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 3: have to go back to the wheels or the tires

437
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 3: on these things to see if they marry up with

438
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 3: the width dimensions on the actual ruts themselves. Okay, so

439
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 3: we've got two. We've got two measurements we're looking at you.

440
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 3: We've got wheelbase, and then we've got the width of

441
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 3: the rut itself, and then the depth. That's a third measurement.

442
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 2: There's been a lot of photos regarding tracks from her home.

443
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 2: This particular one is from Susie debay X. Susie debay X,

444
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 2: and I really liked it when I saw it. Can

445
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 2: I get a close up again? It was part of

446
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 2: the blood video because you're not going to get any

447
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 2: cast I don't think out of gravel. I see this

448
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 2: is where the blood starts. But when you look at

449
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: this video as opposed to the steel photos, you see

450
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 2: how far along the blood went. I didn't ever hear

451
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 2: Joe Scott about any blood being in that portion. It's

452
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 2: gravel in cement and you're not going to get a

453
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: cast off that.

454
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 3: No, not in that particular area. No, that's some kind

455
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 3: of aggregate that has some kind of cement to it.

456
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 3: So no, you're not going to pick up anything right now.

457
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 3: You can look at what.

458
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 2: About where the ridges are. And by the way, that

459
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 2: videos from our friends at Fox News go ahead, dear.

460
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, so looking where these ruts are, Nancy, when you

461
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 3: take a look at that, the composition looks like gravel

462
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 3: to me, or it's got some you know, some kind

463
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 3: of aggregate of gravel. I don't think that it's cemented down. However,

464
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 3: just imagine if we poured a cast into that area.

465
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,479
Speaker 3: We actually use people might not know this. We use

466
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 3: dental stone in order to facilitate these casts, which is

467
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,239
Speaker 3: kind of made out of gypsum. And so when you

468
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 3: let that dry, guess what you're gonna pull up. You're

469
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 3: gonna pull up a big, massive gravel. At that point

470
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 3: in time, it's nothing you can actually read.

471
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 2: So then our info that the FEDS could not get

472
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 2: a cast of the tire marks or any shee marks

473
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 2: and the gravel is correct.

474
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So based upon this image that I'm seeing,

475
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 3: and again qualifier, these are not crime scene images. But

476
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 3: when you take a look at that and you think

477
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 3: about the composition of it. Would they would say there's

478
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 3: no utility in it. There's not going to have any value.

479
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 3: The best thing you can do is photograph, photograph, photograph, photograw.

480
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

481
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 2: If you take a look at porch guy, not only

482
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 2: just a careful look, seem to reveal headlights over his shoulder,

483
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 2: possibly from a vehicle. Now take a look, and this

484
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 2: is from blue Star eight one to two slash X

485
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 2: blue Star eight one to two slash X in addition

486
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 2: to possible headlights in the background. I want to talk

487
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 2: to guest Terry Wynn Yates aka mister Locksmith, third generation

488
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 2: master locksmith, over twenty five years experience and expert in

489
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 2: picking locks. I'm not going to ask too many questions

490
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 2: about how you became an expert in picking locks on YouTube.

491
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 2: He is at twenty four hour mister Locksmith. His website

492
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 2: mister locksmith dot com, mister prolock dot com, mister wen Yates,

493
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. Explain to me how

494
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 2: a lock pick could be used, because we've heard so much.

495
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 2: Did one purp come in through the back door while

496
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 2: the other purp or a single purp came in through

497
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 2: the front door. We've been told that the wrought iron

498
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 2: screen door would be impenetrable. Let's take a look at

499
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: that lock on Missus Guthrie's wrought iron door. Mister wen Yates.

500
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 2: Can a lockpick break through this lock? And how.

501
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 6: An amateur could open that lock in minutes a professional

502
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 6: in seconds? The top dead bolt and the bottom kiannop

503
00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 6: is what we train our locksmith's.

504
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 5: That's the first locks they play with.

505
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 6: They learn how to pick that within the hour they're

506
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 6: picking those locks.

507
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 5: It's not a high security lock at all.

508
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 2: Terry wyn Yates, you're telling me, and by the way,

509
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 2: this is video from mister locksmith on YouTube. We're showing

510
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 2: you how it's done. But could you explain it, mister

511
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 2: wyn Yates.

512
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 5: I had to pick the lock.

513
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 6: First of all, it has to be a lock that's

514
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 6: not high security, So if it's a regular house.

515
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 5: Lock, business lock, what, et cetera.

516
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 6: You apply turning pressure and then there's a couple of

517
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 6: different methods of picking. One is raking. You sort of

518
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 6: rake the pick in and out as you apply tension.

519
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 6: The other method is what we call SPP or single

520
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 6: pin picking, and that's when you become more advanced and

521
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 6: you can pick the lock one pin at a time,

522
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 6: and there's five pins, and the lock that you showed

523
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 6: me the picture, there's five pins.

524
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 5: So and it's a pretty simple lock to pick.

525
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 2: Let's say, missus Guthrie lock again, please control room. So,

526
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 2: Terry wing Yates, you're telling me that even an amateur

527
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 2: could break into this with.

528
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 6: They don't have to break anything. There's several methods to

529
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 6: open that lock. It's extremely easy to pick open, extremely easy,

530
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,479
Speaker 6: and that's what we start our beginners with. And within

531
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 6: the hour they're picking that lock and the bottom lock

532
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 6: has so all.

533
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 2: This business about this darbing impenetrable is all BS technical

534
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 2: legal term, right totally, Terry wing Yates. What about a

535
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 2: lock pick gun?

536
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 6: Yeather the it's basically just a spring with a little

537
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 6: pick like a straight pick on it.

538
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 5: Spring steel, and it's just it's like bumping the lock.

539
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, and when you put it in there, a couple

540
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 6: clicks and apply tension.

541
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 5: Put it the pickgun.

542
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 6: They're readily available all over the internet.

543
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 5: And you can pick the lock in seconds.

544
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 6: It's just and the other method, the pickgun is similar

545
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 6: to what we call a bump key.

546
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 2: So you told me earlier that a lock pick gun

547
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 2: is kind of old school. It's not been used much anymore.

548
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 6: Well, there's better methods, but it's very simple to teach

549
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 6: people that. One reason you don't like it and certain

550
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 6: methods is covert is it makes some noise. It goes

551
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 6: bang bang bang, you know, click click, click, So it

552
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:37,720
Speaker 6: could make some noise. If you want to be quiet,

553
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 6: use a regular lock pick or some of the more

554
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 6: advanced methods to pick the lock.

555
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 2: Straight out to Brian is Gibbons joining us tonight, Director

556
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 2: of Operations USPA Nationwide Security, leading a team of investigators

557
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 2: around the world to find and extract missing people former

558
00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 2: marine Iraqi war that I'd like you to turn your attention, Brian,

559
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 2: toward what seems to be headlights behind the porch. Guy,

560
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 2: look at that and also control room, if you will

561
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 2: pull up the video where a pointer is actually pointing

562
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 2: to the lights. So Ryphus Gibbons, does this mean there

563
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,959
Speaker 2: is an accomplice? And that's from our friend blue Star

564
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 2: eight twelve on.

565
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 7: X Yeah, I think listen. Does this piece of video

566
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 7: mean that there's an accomplice? Not necessarily, however, right logic

567
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 7: tells us that removing missus Guthrie from the house, evading

568
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 7: all sorts of detection throughout this process, leads us to

569
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 7: think there has to be more than one person involved,

570
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 7: and that they would require a vehicle to move her

571
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 7: away from her residence one hundred perpops.

572
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 2: So hold on, hold on, Fitz, Look, Fitz, look watch

573
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 2: it again. He looks back directly at those headlights. Say

574
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 2: did you see that? Wait, let's let's play that again.

575
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 2: In it's an entirety of this same look back. I

576
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 2: did not notice that the first time? What about that, Fitz.

577
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 7: There's been a number of really good breakdowns done in

578
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 7: the online sleuth community seeing this what appears to be

579
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 7: some communication from the purp on the porch back in

580
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 7: the direction of what appears to be headlights going off,

581
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 7: So that that is certainly, you know, an interesting point there.

582
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 2: You know, Brian. Other theories have emerged that, and this

583
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 2: is from a retired FBI, that they are up to

584
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 2: five accomplices. I find the five to be unbelievable because

585
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 2: with five people, somebody's going to crack or some wife, girlfriend,

586
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 2: neighbor is going to blab. Five way too many. What's

587
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 2: your thought?

588
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 7: I share that with a one point two million dollar

589
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 7: reward and five people associated in a conspiracy, it's very

590
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 7: unlikely that they can keep things that tight without somebody

591
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:27,919
Speaker 7: leaking information or going to law enforcement. I think it's

592
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 7: more likely that two or three were involved here, at

593
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 7: least a second person to bring up a vehicle and

594
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 7: one to make entry into the home and bring out

595
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 7: Missus Guthrie Brianus Gibbons.

596
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 2: You were listening as Jeff lem was describing that school

597
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 2: kid cut through that was used. I find that very

598
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 2: very interesting.

599
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 7: Yeah, so this cut through and you can view it

600
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 7: and zoom in on the map. You would have pretty

601
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 7: good concealment to move on foot to the southeast and

602
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 7: gain access to Missus Guthrie's property from her backyard. That

603
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 7: cut through steams relatively navigable at night.

604
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 4: With that dirt road there.

605
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 7: And would have good cover and concealment from cameras on

606
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 7: the backyards of these properties.

607
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 2: Joining me now, Todd Shipley, digital cybercrime expert, former Detective

608
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 2: Sergeant Reno Nevada, twenty five years in law enforcement, AUTHOROB

609
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 2: Surviving a cyber attack and AUTHOROB investigating Internet crimes. You

610
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 2: can find him at dark intel dot info. Todd, you

611
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 2: have been listening very carefully. Here's the question regarding your expertise.

612
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 2: We know that missus Guthrie had cameras in her backyard,

613
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 2: including one up on a post. Do you believe there

614
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 2: is more video or images to be found and they're

615
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 2: just trying to recover them because we keep hearing shifting

616
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 2: stories from nanos suggesting there's nothing else, and then suddenly

617
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 2: there is something else.

618
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 8: Well, I think you're right. I think there is more

619
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 8: to be gotten out of this. That's evident by the

620
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 8: fact that they had this other video that they classified

621
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 8: from January eleventh, that all of a sudden showed up.

622
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 8: But I think one of the things about the current

623
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 8: video and the lights you're seeing in there, is the

624
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 8: bias that law enforcement has shown in their review of

625
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 8: that video. And I mean that they focused on the

626
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 8: person in the video because that was what they see

627
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 8: and didn't look at the background. And so oftentimes when

628
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 8: we're looking at these things, we have to look at

629
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 8: the bigger picture, and they didn't do that. They focused

630
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 8: on the guy, They focused on that he had done.

631
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 8: They focused on, you know, what was up his sleeve,

632
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 8: whether it was a watch, or tattoo all these things

633
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 8: and missed the fact that there was something in the

634
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 8: background that was there that came out through crowdsourcing by

635
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 8: somebody on a first you know, through social media, which

636
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 8: should have been one of the first things that they

637
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 8: looked at when they look at video what's going on.

638
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 8: So there's a bunch of information I think it still

639
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 8: exists that law enforcement hasn't either gotten to or has

640
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 8: not released.

641
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 4: To us obviously.

642
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 2: Todd Shipley, what is your other observation tonight.

643
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 8: Well, one of the things that we've not seen yet

644
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,720
Speaker 8: from the releases by the FBI or the shrif's department

645
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 8: is the metadata regarding these videos.

646
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 4: Metadata is data that describes other data.

647
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 8: When you take a picture, you take a video, there's

648
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 8: data that is collected by the camera that describes who

649
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,240
Speaker 8: took up, what camera took it, the dates and times,

650
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 8: sometimes geolocation, and so we don't have any of that,

651
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 8: and I think that was why, at least initially there

652
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 8: was some ern about the January eleventh date, is because

653
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 8: there was something that indicated that date in a camera

654
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 8: video at some portion which we haven't got yet, So

655
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 8: we don't know what that meddata is related to any

656
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 8: of these videos or any of the pictures that are taken.

657
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything about Missus

658
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,919
Speaker 2: Guthrie's disappearance, please dial toll free eight hundred two two

659
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 2: five five three two eight, or to remain anonymous five

660
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 2: two zero eight eight two seven four sixty three. Thank

661
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 2: you to our guest joining us tonight, but especially to

662
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 2: you for being with us and keeping the search for

663
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie alive. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight. I'll

664
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 2: see you tomorrow night, and until then, good night for you.

665
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 2: Thanks